I'm part of the "5%" according to your chart. I wonder why the gender makeup of your videos is shifted male so much. Pokemon appeals to both men and women. I'm kind of puzzled as to why so few women are watching these.
@@CranberryFoI think it's because of the focus on the competitive side of Pokémon that makes it more male centric. Though yeah, it is tiring seeing all these ads for a product not designed for us 😢
Next up is the "Flareon Theorem", where a good movepool means everything EDIT: Now that the video's out, I just realized how much traffic this comment got over the past few weeks. Wasn't expecting that!
@@EntelarmerEspeon, Vaporeon, Glaceon (sort of) and Sylveon are exceptions. Espeon got more coverage options later on and just needs Fire/Ground/Fighting coverage against Steel types. Sylveon lost Mystical Fire and may get that back if Pokemon HOME does not reset moves. Vaporeon needs special coverage against Water types, and Glaceon just needs to terastalize or needs strong Water coverage.
@@IgnitedQuils So basically... they are not exception because they have coverage issues. :P Vaporen is kinda exception cus water+ice beam hits most things for neutral damage tho. (it DOES have IB still, right?).
Speed is unique in that it doesn’t need other stats. Defense and HP need each other. Attack needs speed and bulk to an extent. Speed on the other hand, is it’s own thing. Go first or not.
Did you forget the fact he stated that Electrode isn't a very good mon? Speed doesn't need a stat, it needs ANY other stat to be worth while. You might go first, but what will you do when you get to? Gamble Thunder? Set up 1 mediocre Light Screen or Taunt and then die immediately? Speed might be everything, but without some other stats being usable and or a great movepool its nothing.
Your forgetting the most important statistic, your movepool. Speed is incredibly reliant on movepool, different movepools u run completely different evs.
If Baton Pass was out of the picture it rings true that Speed depends on Movepool as much as Attack stats do. Having the first strike in any given situation would imply you have a clear advantage, but if the slower opponent is stronger to compensate or can restrict you somehow they've played around that tempo. Getting to attack twice means you have to sweep the opponent, so ATK does need SPD more than the reverse, too true.
You know, with this theme going on, I think a video like "why abilities change everything" would be fun. Since it made a pokemon like azumarill go from trash to a good pokemon.
Also mega mawile,mega medicham, tapus, blaziken, Aegislash, Talonflame(gen 6). All ruin mons, pixilate,Aeriliate,+other ates, levitate Gengar, hero to zero palafin, Gholdengo, protean, libero, multiscale. Honestly abilities feel even more useful than speed.
In any turn-based game, the turns themselves are your most valuable resource. If you move first and get a KO or do something that otherwise denies the opponent from doing what they want, you essentially get extra turns over your opponent, which inherently puts you at a huge advantage
In tabletop games, this is also referred to as the "Action Economy." While raw stats are certainly a contributor, the biggest fact is that the side with the most turns wins. It's why a group of 6 Level 3 characters can give a Dragon trouble, and yet 10 commoners against a single level 20 character can also give that legend some problems. Reflecting this, speed, speed control and sustainability are what dictate the "action economy" of Pokemon, as being able to stifle and shut down moves and options narrows down the win conditions. It's why Assault Vest is considered not as useful an item, why Taunt and Encore are feared moves that can shut down entire game plans, why Choice Items and moves that lock in for several turns are high risk, and it's why Sleep, Paralysis and Confusion are just as frightening as Poison and Burn.
It does depend a fair bit. Being able to go first in a 40 turn battle generally will not be nearly as important as going first in a 2 turn battle. Although of course there are exceptions to that.
Not something that was missed exactly, but I think a really good example of this is Kartana running timid sometimes in order to get a speed boost from beast boost. Speed is so strong that Kartana is willing to take a minus attack nature in order to boost it.
@@Bluk34dewnxt3 Beast Boost gives a +1 to the user's highest stat, which is why Kartana used Timid and I believe 17IVs to hit 347, one below its 348 Speed
@@Bluk34dewnxt3Because Kartana’s attack stat is so high that you need to lower it quite a bit to make Speed get affected by Beast Boost. Even with a Timid nature you need 0 ATK EVs and 19 IVs, along with 252/31 on Speed to make sure Speed gets the boost
@@Bluk34dewnxt3 the attack stat is too high, in order to get it below your speed stat, you would have to run 0 attack evs, a minus arrack nature, and even reduce the attack I’ve in order to make it less than its speed stat to get the speed beast boost
This also explains why TR teams can win in under 10 turns against unprepared teams: they get to run max bulk AND attack while still outspeeding. They literally punish you for having speed EVs and IVs
@@kelly_times trick room teams need. A 2nd plan if they get taunted, or the Trick room user faints before using it In doubles trick room is a lot easier to use I can’t say the same for singles battle though
@@bryanc1772 Trick Room teams, at least in Singles, tend to prefer having one--maybe even two--mons that are fast *outside of Trick Room* too. Otherwise they just tend to get somewhat crushed as soon as Trick Room ends, even before Taunt issues. Just more proof that Speed is everything when even the teams that focus on intentionally being slow still want at least one high Speed mon, whether naturally or through Scarf.
You know what would probably be terrifying competitively? A move that uses Speed in its damage calculation (like Body Press except it uses Speed instead of Defense)
Electro ball is probably the closest thing we have to that, and it’s kinda just ok. A speed based Body Press would be crazy, combined with an Agility user or Speed Boost Pokemon it would be so much fun
Speed alone can be called the OP stat for a reason, because it offers the following powerful advantages: - Hitting first, obviously - Effective immunity of Flinching from anything but Fake Out, one of the most obnoxious statuses - Can go even faster with speed boosting Moves or Ability, especially if combined with already strong Attack / Special Attack - Almost never having to worry about volatile and non-volatile statuses if their slower opponent is KO’d - Knock Off - The list goes on
Deoxys doesn't have the highest individual stat values in any stat now tho Edit : maybe you can consider sp atk if you don't account for mega evolutions or chi-yu's beads of ruin
I'm a little surprised there wasn't a section to talk about Trick Room, given how it exists to swap speed around and can make or break whole VGC matches
I soon stopped running hyper offensive teams cause a lot of them just don't have a way to counter trick room, as soon as they set it up game's finished
@@ParkyMarz There are ways to bring active countermeasures to it Problem is now you're allocating resources to places that will be worse against not trick room
@@strangehobbyist4953 me too, I try to have one slow Pokémon. Generally speaking I've also found that I prefer having my Pokémon spread to be a little bit bulkier than the norm, I don't like mons that last 2 turns on the battlefield.
The deoxys-s theorem reached its absolute peak with Dragapult. It’s the perfect combination of speed, coverage and just enough attacking power and bulk to be a terrifying threat that cannot be overestimated. I look forward to more theorems in the future. Please do a theorem on Flareon. It has one amazing stat and a great BST but atrociously placed stats everywhere else.
You had me until you said "a great BST but atrociously placed stats." Since all the eeveelutions share the same BST, this strength isn't really a strength. If anything its just atrociously placed stats, which I think Heatmor would be a better example than Flareon
@@Whodjathink Heatmor at least has solid utilitarianism compared to Flareon. It can run white smoke to switch in on sticky webs, it can taunt slower tanks, go physical, special or mixed, and has great coverage overall. Before Gen VIII, Heatmor even had access to knock off and pursuit. They both languish in the lowest tiers due to being heavily outclassed by other fire types, such as Rapidash and Magmortar respectively. Eeveelutions are hype because they will always share the same base stat. it's how the stats are distributed that matters.
@@gio9255 Everything you said...all true lol. My reason for bringing up Heatmor was because its counterpart, Durant, has a much better stat pool than Heatmor. Alongh with a really solid typing
@@FraserSouris Yes… In Gen 8 In Gen 9, slowking has to use chilly reception, which doesn’t have teleport’s negative priority, so speed really does matter there (also this is why you’ll see stuff like min speed corv) However, even in Gen 8, the reason why the slow twins are so good teleport users is a combination of sufficient bulk, regenerator, and they are slower than other popular teleport mons like blissey and clefable, which gives their teammates even more security on switch in
A more interesting one might be the difference between low speed and very low speed. Like, speed 50, and speed 20 Very low speed is almost always seen as an advantage, while low speed is much more temperamental.
oh I thought that was going to be explained in this video as well, since speed is everything which should include having lower speed leading to success. Another example is the cat that everyone loves to hate Incineroar giving in safe pivots with parting shot. Although in incin's case it has a lot more going than just speed compared to slowking
It makes sense that speed would be the most important thing because if you can’t do anything before you die, then it’s pretty useless usually. That’s why tailwind was so good in gen 9. Edit: Thanks for all the likes and comments! Never gotten this many.
@@baalfgames5318Usually Pokémon like that use status moves or other things to be viable. Otherwise they don’t usually do much. Also just because its seems like the most important doesn’t make everything else irrelevant.
Priority is basically just an advanced form of speed, showing the incredible advantage of reliably going first. I feel like Talonflame and Prankster abusers pretty much fall under the Deoxys Theorem.
@@FishFosh Prankster abusers generally need a second tool though, being bulk of some kind. Frail Klefki wouldn't work. Klefki Klefki does work, and would likely still be doing great if Grimmsnarl didn't exist
High Speed Pokémon: I am *inevitable* Priority Moves/Abilities & Trick Room: *Hold my beer* (I don’t play competitive, but I know Trick Room requires set up and can be countered. BUT when it pops off, all the Speed EVs and IVs the opponent invested in become useless while the Trick Room user has the advantage in turn order AND bulk. Priority Moves do beat both Speed, depending on priority brackets, and Trick Room, though they also have counters in the form of Quick Guard, Psychic Terrain, and certain abilities.)
GSC Snorlax and Nidoking would probably be better examples of that. Clefable only became amazing in DPP, when it got Magic Guard. The movepool was a massive help, of course, but Magic Guard was the big one for it.
I'm currently doing a Radical Red playthrough with only Kanto species. While planning my team, I was a bit disappointed with the lower BSTs of some of my favorite mons, like Fearow, Alolan Dugtrio, and Hisuian Electrode, but they're all pretty fast, and that has helped out big time in a lot of the competitive fights. It's a great advantage to go before your opponent and land your moves, weak as they might be, as it offers you a great advantage. Gotta agree with the Deoxys theorem.
This theorem works against hyper offense and balance but maybe not too much against stall Having a lot of speed is fine but what you get in speed you may scarifice in other stats unless you use legendaries like Latios, Terrakion , Keldeo etc Dragapult has a lot of speed and good decent Stab moves but wishes it had more power or bulk
@@bryanc1772 yep and the opponents in RR have almost exclusively very offensive teams where its about getting the KO first unless you stall yourself in RR ... which i hope nobody does lmao unless hardcore
@@pierre1069. yeah you are right, but HP feels like isn't as limited to its "base" number as as the other stats. Could just be as simple as, Bulky = Average (50ish) or Higher HP plus 100+ Defenses.
Effective bulk is the term. The bigger the base, the less you benefit from investment. Mons like blissey full invest in hp and def normally, but they max def and spdef in ubers to better take on kyogre. Blissey tanks physical moves over twice as well with investment, but only about 12% if calm max spdef. Blissey is an extreme example however
a video like this would probably be too math heavy for fsg, and ends up being too theoretical anyways, since it would mostly refer to redistributing already established base stats or comparing the bulk between different pokemon, once you start factoring in how EVs impact this, it gets really convoluted really quickly
When I was in elementary and asked my friends who were into competitive pokemon “What the most important stat was?” He replied speed. Basically, everything I’ve learned more or less confirms that.
Honestly surprised Mega Garchomp wasnt mentioned. How it has an insane attack stat and good bulk, but was nearly never used over regular Garchomp for the near sole reason of it loosing 10 base speed upon mega evolving.
The one thing I remember from the "How good was Garchomp actually" was the moment he casted M Garchomp aside based solely on that speed drop. I was like "...wow".
@@IceSpoon well it doesn’t help that Mega Garchomp was a sandstorm wallbreaker, which is too heavily specific, Normal Chomp is splashable. Plus mega chomp doesn’t hit as hard as choice band
He mentored Garchomp's trolly 102 Speed, but I am surprised he did not mention that Garchomp saw more use than Mega-Garchomp mostly because Mega lost 10 Speed. Its Mega gave it a less useful niche.
Honestly I’m surprised that the specific move “Shell Smash” wasn’t mentioned. You’d think that move that trades defenses for doubling speed and attack would get a honorary mention
Dragapult is the best example imo. Amazing speed stat really carries it, even through not having a good ghost physical STAB and even running specs sets
to be fair, even if you set its physical attack to 1, its stats would still be pretty good. That special attack is definitely solid, especially when paired with that speed.
Eeeeeeh. That's... kinda boring. The theorem boils down to "what thing does X, use the best thing that does X, when a better thing that does X shows up, use the new thing that does X" Pelipper isn't exactly special, it's just that the last thing holding rain teams together was Politoed, and Politoed is one of the worst pokemon of all time underneath Drizzle. Politoed was always seen as a necessary evil on rain teams, that you just put up with. Pelipper isn't great, but it's only bad underneath Drizzle, not one of the worst pokemon of all time, and for the purposes of a rain team it actually brings a few advantages, like an immunity to come in on, recovery, and pivoting, rather than being the "going in 5-6 in exchange for rain" that Politoed effectively is. The moment like, Gyarados, or Ludicolo, or something like them gets Drizzle... then Pelipper will fall to wherever Politoed is, and Politoed will fall into some deeper, wretched abyss where its friends Ledian, Sudowoodo, and Stantler hang out. Until eventually you get to Sand status where multiple setters are independently good and worth using even if not running a sand team.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 not really peli is really good rain abuser itself. rn in UU rain mons r B+ ish mons while peli is solidly A rank for most players. Specs is so good.
@@imcoralto be fair, Nidoking also has Sheer force, Life orb and a good enough special stat to work with. There’s a reason Sheer force is one of the best offensive abilities in the game
*Fun fact:* What you're hearing is how fast Kellen actually talks. Like a digeridoo player, he's mastered the ability to inhale and speak at the same time without stopping between sentences.
I think an interesting related effect of speed creep across the generations is seeing classic scarf Pokémon not being able to cut it with a scarf anymore like breloom and magnezone
An interesting analysis case is Mega Garchomp, a pokemon with BST than the base form but whose lower speed made it virtually outclassed by the base form
This is a fascinating topic in the context of Ubers. Ubers is dominated by that base 90 speed that most of the tier has, contrasted by the frequency of 130+ that largely means speed investment is entirely based on speed creeping. Being faster than 90 is a HUGE advantage, but ALSO can turn into a monkey's paw, since being at like 95 speed (see Rayquaza) is very nearly a commitment to enough speed investment to beat all other base 90s. Ubers is such a fun tier. Well. It was prior to gen 8.
Time for how moveset is about everything- “The Clefable Theorem “ and how HP doesn’t transfer directly to great bulk, “ The Wailord Theorem “ Next time
Digimon In The World DS/Dawn/Dusk Games Can Have UP TO 7 MOVES EACH!Because Of This,I Gave My Team Of 6 Chronomon All The Strongest Moves In The Game With Hacks!
Iron Bundle having a base 136 speed is the best thing it could have gifted to itself. Outspeeding Flutter Mane, the Bicycles and Chien Pao by a whopping 1 point. Jellicent vs Tyranitar and Dragapult vs Zeraora among others.
@@Blanktester685 Though I understand where you're coming from, Blissey hits the maximum theoretical value already (255 base, 714 total). That 255 value has existed since Gen 1, and there's nothing stopping Game Freak from rising the bar with a new entry since technology has improved. But I appreciate it that they have not raised that bar.
uhm, with full investment, Blissey's physical bulk isn't even that bad. Its actually hilarious, how many physical attackers in gen 3 can't get past it.
Another Theorem idea that could be good is the Smeargle Theorem, where sheer movepool variety can overcome a ton of disadvantages, such as Smeargle's baby pokemon tier stats, since they can be molded to play a very specific role or roles that other mons cannot do due to just not having all of the pieces needed
@@velvetbutterfly Well yes, I kinda see your point... but. . no. . . yea, maybe it kinda ALL can be kinda situational sometimes... but that's only SOMETIMES! strategy games REQUIRES consistency to be successful. And shedinja... is consistently either a hit.. or a miss. while I can understand it DOES have the power to shut some mons down... this comes at the VERY costly price of frailty. there's gonna be a LOT to worry about in order to be able to CONSISTENTLY throw that out into the field. damaging weather and entry hazards for one, and EVEN if you have the means to be able to remove ALL of that... THAT amount of settup alone is going to be lagging you down more than what its worth JUST to keep that thing alive. And yes... while I also understand that there are held items that can protect you from those things... but there AREN'T any items that could protect you from ALL of those things at once. heavey duty boots? ok... just pray you don't have to be dealing with a constant game of cat and mouse with a sandstream or snow warning pokemon... saftey goggles? entry hazzords get to say hi. . So ok... what are some OTHER things to have to be worrying about even if I HAVE the means to be preventing ALL of these conditions... lets see. . . damaging on-contact abilitys... any status move that can inflict ANY kind of damage.... the pursuit move. . . . . and if you've got an answer for ALL of this. . . than wow.... that's gotta be ONE bloated ass team full of SO many redundancies JUST to make that thing work. So ok... yea, even GOOD teams WITHOUT the shedinja can come with its own situational flaws, such as maybe not having the room for things like the taunt and then running into a lvl 1 FEAR team and just NOT being able to do anything about whatever absurd, RANDOM thing you might encounter in other teams, or just simply that random crit that just ruins everything... but. . . HOW LIKELY are you to be encountering these one off issues vs a whole... VAST OCEAN OF ENTRY HAZZORD, WEATHER INFESTED METTA GAME?! So no... just take that whole "oH. . nAmE oNe A.s.P.e.C.t of literally A n Y strategy game... E - V - E - rrr. . . de.. that ISN'T technically situational. . ." back to whatever cheap vendor you got it from. . and just sell it back to him, because you've still got a LOT to know about this game. . . Also, kinda wasn't really mad or anything... just. . I dunno, felt like my response just needed to be this way(uh.. lol).
I remember using Electrode really early into the gen 9 meta when Murkrow was the best Pokémon in the game (rather than the 4th best lol). I wanted to freely taunt Murkrow after it sets up Tailwind without using Prankster, as that wouldn't affect Murkrow. So I turned to the neglected explosive molecule in hopes of finding a counter for Murkrow teams. I raised that bugger's Speed to its maximum and slapped on a Choice Scarf (because I had no other use for that thing), and it actually outside quite a few things even under Tailwind. It's amazing how just one move going before an opponent can act has such a dynamic impact on a game.
Another Pokemon that could've been mentioned was Jolteon. In Gen 2, it was outclassed by Raikou due to lesser power and Bulk, and its higher Speed stat was gratuitous. But all that changed in Gen 3, when Dugtrio gained Arena Trap, and Raikou was mostly dominated by it, unable to OHKO Dugtrio with even a super effective Hidden Power and crushed by Earthquake. Meanwhile, Jolteon's naturally high Speed outran Dugtrio, potentially beating it if it landed Hidden Power on a Dugtrio switching in, or to Baton Pass out into another teammate, even providing support with Wish.
Moving first in Chess is considered a fairly big advantage (the game is theorized to be a draw with perfect play, but more inaccuracies lead to White victory than Black). A Chess game lasts something like 20 (short), 40 (medium) or 60 (long) moves (40/80/120 if counting moves for White and Black separately), and can either finish with both players having made the same number of moves or with White having made one more move than Black, depending on whose move the game ends on. Mathematically, this means White has a 1 move lead 50% of the time, or a 0,5 move lead on average, or a head start of 1/80 (1.25%) of a medium-length game. Most critical 1v1 match-ups in Pokémon are OHKOs, 2HKOs or 3HKOs, meaning they last 0,5 - 3 full turns, or 1-6 individual moves. In a 1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 and 6 turn fight, respectively, the faster mon gets 100%, 50%, 67%, 50%, 60% and 50% of the moves vs 0/50/33/50/40/50 for the slower mon. If all 6 outcomes had equal probability (and no matchups were longer), the faster mon would make 63% (377/600) of all the moves on average, vs 37% (223/600) for the slower. 63 is 1.7 times or 170% as much as 37, so the faster mon would move 70% more often -- getting 5 moves for every 3 moves its opponent gets (3x1.7=5.1).
After the deoxys theorem I feel like there should be a Deoxys-N Theorem where that pokemon has a good stats for the tiers but was entirely outclass by their other form or competitor to the point of having no usage like how deoxys normal having an hilariously broken stats but it has no usage when deoxys-A exist whose non-existent bulk made no difference compare to deoxys-N
You missed a really cool thing that Electrode is is Staple in gen 1 Nintendo cup 1997 for its speed and is more common than Jolteon in modern-day matches of the format. It's mostly because the speed creep from legal levels ranging from 50-55, which personally I think you missed out on. Lv55 Tauros being faster and OHKOing lv50 Alakazam for example, forcing it to run at least lv52 to escape the speed creep.
Speed has always been the odd stat out but its crazy how important it is. Like we generally just think of speed as an offensive tool since the offensive pokemon tend to have higher speed stats but speed makes défensive so much more difficult to handle. Like remeber that time Hippowdon started running speed just to shut down machamp?
During the NetBattle era (which was up to and including gen 3), the most common variants of Deoxys were Attack and Defense. Rayquaza often had Extremespeed to deal with Attack Deoxys. Attack Deoxys itself often ran Extremespeed just because it always had Choice Band, not because it was particularly trying to outspeed anything. Extremespeed was at least usable against the slower Extremespeed Rayquaza or the occasional Ninjask. Speed Deoxys in ubers was mainly viewed as an alternative to Defense Deoxys for Taunting. Speed Deoxys was less popular because it lacked the killer offense that the majority of other ubers had and was likely to get 2HKOed by unbuffed enemy legendaries. The latter problem was mainly due to the available ubers. No uber was weak to Psychic and most ubers (+Tyrannitar and Metagross from the OU bracket) actually resisted it, so ubers often opted to drop STAB Psychic from their moveset. The only other moves you'd see that Speed Deoxys could switch into with a resistance were Superpower and Focus Punch... which would hurt like all heck anyways. Despite those negative points, Speed Deoxys was much better against SkarmBliss than Defense Deoxys. OU players who were new to the ubers metagame would sometimes use SkarmBliss as a crutch to feel out the metagame. (Skarmory would fall short of expectations in the ubers metagame though)... Speed Deoxys was also an ironic counter to Attack Deoxys since both of them had Extremespeed. It's interesting to hear that Speed Deoxys was more desirable in later generations, but I don't think "Speed is everything" worked for Speed Deoxys' favor in gen 3.
The next Theorem should be how Stats cant rescue you (most of the time) if your Movepool is shallow. Entei in early gens, Flareon, Zamaztenta, Kuyrem-Black and many more Mons suffer or suffered immensely because they dont have great movepools that offer coverage or utillity.
Yeah, it's always bugged me in Pokemon and in most RPG's how important speed is. Luckily Pokemon doesn't combine speed and accuracy into one stat like some RPG's do (and that accuracy malarkey is mostly banned in competitive...). Buy yeah, Speed is pretty much always that one stat where there isn't ever a middle ground; it's either no speed or all speed.
I am surprised Regieleki wasn't mentioned- especially with how dominant it was in VGC thanks purely to its speed control options thanks to its own insane speed.
Fun little story relating to speed. So, I did a Hardcore Nuzlocke of Omega Ruby and was fighting Wally. I was scrambling to find an answer for Mega Gallade it cause I had made some very bad plays and thus did not have a reliable switch in. I knew Mega Gallade probably outsped my entire team so I didn't know what to do. That was until I remember that yes, Mega Gallade is faster but regular Gallade might not be. Why does this matter if Wally is gonna Mega evolve Gallade immediately? Well Megas only got their potential speed boost the turn after they Mega Evolve in gen 6 (for...some reason). My Zangoose was on the field and sure enough, Zangoose's speed is ten points higher than regular Gallade leading to me K.Oing it with a Swords Dance boosted Return.
How in heavens sake does this video exist without harping about Regieleki - the mon that single handedly invalidated so many other mons and strats especially in VGC.
😊I think the inverse is things like slow U-Turn / Volt Switch / Teleport on support mons to bring out huge threats that otherwise wouldn't be able to take the hit if the switch was fast. OU Pelipper.
been lovin this series a ton :) can't wait to see a video on abilities and how they affect pokemon because a pokemon like torkoal can go from NU and PU to UU and OU
Speed is exactly why I like and consider myself as Trick Room player more than anything. To me it's just much easier to take the instant loss regarding to speed wars and try to work around that with a simple trick room, than it is to take part of that speed fight (which also includes the supporting moves such as Tailwind, electric web etc and weather effects) and - if I lose it - pretty much just smile and lose outright anyway. And best part is that Trick Room also pretty much flip the tables since the speed invested enemy is now invested completely against that. And usually the speed mons are more frail and hard hitting, where as trick room mons are more bulky and hard hitting, so they still hit just as hard as they would, but also take a retaliation hit (if it comes to that) pretty safe as well.
I wonder how Pokemon would change if having Speed only increased the likelihood of going first. The faster you are than your foe, the more likely you'd go before them, but a 1 point difference would be effectively the same as a Speed tie in current Pokemon.
I've thought about this, where every 1 speed point puts tickets into a pool and is drawn randomly. So if you have a 100 speed pokemon vs a 200 speed one, the 200 speed one would still have a 2/3rds chance to attack first from the random draw of those 300 tickets this would probably require a massive rework on the speed stat thou, like lowering speed on slow pokemon and boosting speed on fast pokemon to make sure that slow mons don't move first too often. Quick Claw would need a rework too like just placing a static amount of tickets into the pool, but would have to do it in a way that fast pokemon wouldn't just abuse it.
@@playcube4564 Interesting use of the word "tickets" here, but I see where you're coming from. Still, I could see how this would reduce the amount of skill required to beat the game. With being able to move first being so important, a lot more games would come down to pure dumb luck.
I feel like this should be called the Tauros therom because Tauros' speed was a major reason for it's place in Gen 1 and Speed was really important fot Crits in that gen
Video ideas: why HP isn't everything - the Guzzlord theorem why a good ability is everything - the Pelipper theorem why balanced stats aren't everything - the Silvally theorem why a good movepool is everything - the Flareon theorem why a bad defensive typing isn't necesarilly anything - the Weavile theorem
8:08 - "And [Electrode] only had Light Screen, not even Reflect." I checked Electrode on Serebii time ago and saw that it COULD learn Reflect... only in Gen I (and also Hisuian Electrode can learn Reflect but not Light Screen), and after that it was unable to learn the move in the following generations. The most bizarre thing is that Electrode was able to learn Reflect again in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, but not in any other subsequent game despite the fact it's still a TM...
One of my favourite Ubers sets I ran during gen 6 and 7 involved a Blaziken purely built for Baton Passing. Speed Boost is nasty enough on its own, but I opted for Bulk Up in addition instead of Swords Dance. Between Protect and the Focus Sash, I always got SOMETHING out of this Blaziken, and from there I could pass it to basically anyone on my team and the resultant stats would wreak havoc. But honestly, my favourite mon to pass it to was my Primal Groudon. See, the great thing about Primal Groudon is that its base offences are already completely insane. So I actually built mine as specially-defensive, because even an uninvested Fire Punch from Pdon will rip holes in just about anything. So then imagine that with speed, attack, and defence buffs... it was heinous. I loved it.
Baton pass ninjask is a great way of presenting this idea. It would set up your sweeper while sub and protect stalling and getting ready for your sweepers to do their job.
I remember back when I played Sun/Moon, I went with a team that only had that region's Pokemon, so Hau's Raichu was often a major threat because my team would always get hit by it before they could do anything.
To add to this point: I have often found myself thinking during teambuilding, "if this game had an item that simply said "raises the holder's Speed by 1" I would use it. No, not 1 as in 1 stage. 1 as in _1 point_ just to win all speed-ties without being scarf-locked. Certainly an item that gave a 20% boost to Speed would see a ton of use. Maybe even if it only applied to moves of one type like the damage increase from Silk Scarf, Charcoal, Mystic Water, etc. or only to Super Effective moves like the bonus from Expert Belt.
This entire video reminded me of how, in Dragon Ball Z's Android / Cell Arc, it was a plot point that the ultimate power up form, had to be FAST. That sure Trunks technically managed to achieved the form that had THE POWER to defeat Perfect Cell.... but was too bulky and slow he couldn't hit him at all. He needed to be the perfect balance of high speed and power to defeat him
Get 20% Off + Free International Shipping with promo code FALSESWIPE
at mnscpd.com/falseswipe!
The real first comment.
We need a video on how good smooth balls and butt are actually
I'm part of the "5%" according to your chart. I wonder why the gender makeup of your videos is shifted male so much. Pokemon appeals to both men and women. I'm kind of puzzled as to why so few women are watching these.
@@CranberryFoI think it's because of the focus on the competitive side of Pokémon that makes it more male centric. Though yeah, it is tiring seeing all these ads for a product not designed for us 😢
Ohh yeah, my "Ninjask" Theorem came true! Thank you FSG
Next up is the "Flareon Theorem", where a good movepool means everything
EDIT: Now that the video's out, I just realized how much traffic this comment got over the past few weeks. Wasn't expecting that!
This could be more for Eeveelutions in general. Flareon falls more under Rampardos Theorem tho.
@@EntelarmerEspeon, Vaporeon, Glaceon (sort of) and Sylveon are exceptions. Espeon got more coverage options later on and just needs Fire/Ground/Fighting coverage against Steel types. Sylveon lost Mystical Fire and may get that back if Pokemon HOME does not reset moves. Vaporeon needs special coverage against Water types, and Glaceon just needs to terastalize or needs strong Water coverage.
honestly that feel like the Eeveelutions fault. Their coverage is garbo
@@IgnitedQuils So basically... they are not exception because they have coverage issues. :P Vaporen is kinda exception cus water+ice beam hits most things for neutral damage tho. (it DOES have IB still, right?).
And I don’t really think coverage is a problem for umbreon because it’s not offensive and usually uses foul play as a main attacking move
Speed is unique in that it doesn’t need other stats. Defense and HP need each other. Attack needs speed and bulk to an extent. Speed on the other hand, is it’s own thing. Go first or not.
Did you forget the fact he stated that Electrode isn't a very good mon? Speed doesn't need a stat, it needs ANY other stat to be worth while. You might go first, but what will you do when you get to? Gamble Thunder? Set up 1 mediocre Light Screen or Taunt and then die immediately? Speed might be everything, but without some other stats being usable and or a great movepool its nothing.
Your forgetting the most important statistic, your movepool. Speed is incredibly reliant on movepool, different movepools u run completely different evs.
If Baton Pass was out of the picture it rings true that Speed depends on Movepool as much as Attack stats do. Having the first strike in any given situation would imply you have a clear advantage, but if the slower opponent is stronger to compensate or can restrict you somehow they've played around that tempo. Getting to attack twice means you have to sweep the opponent, so ATK does need SPD more than the reverse, too true.
Having initiative is always a good thing, and since Speed breaks Priority ties, having high Speed generally means more initiative.
All you need is speed and any hazard or screens to be viable
You know, with this theme going on, I think a video like "why abilities change everything" would be fun. Since it made a pokemon like azumarill go from trash to a good pokemon.
and conversely made regigigas and slaking into trash.
@@tdarkhorse4 well yeah, but it still fits the theme, "abilities change everything", doesn't need to be for the better
That's Quagsire theorem
Azumarill, breloom, sableye... Sableye became my favorite pokemon to play at some point. It got deservedly nerfed in sun and moon but I still got sad.
Also mega mawile,mega medicham, tapus, blaziken, Aegislash, Talonflame(gen 6). All ruin mons, pixilate,Aeriliate,+other ates, levitate Gengar, hero to zero palafin, Gholdengo, protean, libero, multiscale. Honestly abilities feel even more useful than speed.
In any turn-based game, the turns themselves are your most valuable resource. If you move first and get a KO or do something that otherwise denies the opponent from doing what they want, you essentially get extra turns over your opponent, which inherently puts you at a huge advantage
Well said.
Well said my brother in tactical games.
In tabletop games, this is also referred to as the "Action Economy." While raw stats are certainly a contributor, the biggest fact is that the side with the most turns wins. It's why a group of 6 Level 3 characters can give a Dragon trouble, and yet 10 commoners against a single level 20 character can also give that legend some problems.
Reflecting this, speed, speed control and sustainability are what dictate the "action economy" of Pokemon, as being able to stifle and shut down moves and options narrows down the win conditions. It's why Assault Vest is considered not as useful an item, why Taunt and Encore are feared moves that can shut down entire game plans, why Choice Items and moves that lock in for several turns are high risk, and it's why Sleep, Paralysis and Confusion are just as frightening as Poison and Burn.
It does depend a fair bit. Being able to go first in a 40 turn battle generally will not be nearly as important as going first in a 2 turn battle. Although of course there are exceptions to that.
@@tinkerer3399 You can heal/ protect before enemy hits you. And still live. That gives you advantage.
Not something that was missed exactly, but I think a really good example of this is Kartana running timid sometimes in order to get a speed boost from beast boost. Speed is so strong that Kartana is willing to take a minus attack nature in order to boost it.
Timid kartana my beloved
I never used ultra beasts. Why wouldn't you want to run jolly? You'd keep the attack stat.
@@Bluk34dewnxt3 Beast Boost gives a +1 to the user's highest stat, which is why Kartana used Timid and I believe 17IVs to hit 347, one below its 348 Speed
@@Bluk34dewnxt3Because Kartana’s attack stat is so high that you need to lower it quite a bit to make Speed get affected by Beast Boost. Even with a Timid nature you need 0 ATK EVs and 19 IVs, along with 252/31 on Speed to make sure Speed gets the boost
@@Bluk34dewnxt3 the attack stat is too high, in order to get it below your speed stat, you would have to run 0 attack evs, a minus arrack nature, and even reduce the attack I’ve in order to make it less than its speed stat to get the speed beast boost
This also explains why TR teams can win in under 10 turns against unprepared teams: they get to run max bulk AND attack while still outspeeding. They literally punish you for having speed EVs and IVs
Part of the reason I love trick room so much, its really fun
Doesn't work all the time but when it does it works great
Ah the time where you could max all your stats in Gen 1 and 2
Speed didn’t matter too much in those Gens
Though it does cost a turn or two.
@@kelly_times trick room teams need. A 2nd plan if they get taunted, or the Trick room user faints before using it
In doubles trick room is a lot easier to use
I can’t say the same for singles battle though
@@bryanc1772 Trick Room teams, at least in Singles, tend to prefer having one--maybe even two--mons that are fast *outside of Trick Room* too. Otherwise they just tend to get somewhat crushed as soon as Trick Room ends, even before Taunt issues. Just more proof that Speed is everything when even the teams that focus on intentionally being slow still want at least one high Speed mon, whether naturally or through Scarf.
You know what would probably be terrifying competitively? A move that uses Speed in its damage calculation (like Body Press except it uses Speed instead of Defense)
Its then given to exclusively clodsire
Electro ball is probably the closest thing we have to that, and it’s kinda just ok. A speed based Body Press would be crazy, combined with an Agility user or Speed Boost Pokemon it would be so much fun
@@unitedstatesofuk *banned from anything goes*
@@unitedstatesofukAlso make it fairy or dark type so noone can resist and give it to regeleky
@@tuhinkumarkole Regieeki would be grateful to have anything besides electric and normal moves lol
You know speed is very important when you start expecting every Pokemon in the ladder to be max speed
Jolly Ferrothorn new meta
@@enoyna1001*Timid Energy Ball Ferrothorn
I use a max speed Ferrothorn lol
@@lululucente Kartana moment lol
Speed alone can be called the OP stat for a reason, because it offers the following powerful advantages:
- Hitting first, obviously
- Effective immunity of Flinching from anything but Fake Out, one of the most obnoxious statuses
- Can go even faster with speed boosting Moves or Ability, especially if combined with already strong Attack / Special Attack
- Almost never having to worry about volatile and non-volatile statuses if their slower opponent is KO’d
- Knock Off
- The list goes on
can't be taunted before setting rocks, essentially making them taunt-immune to an extent as well
Here's hoping one day Deoxys can reclaim his crown for highest individual stat values.
I can't believe they made Regieleki faster than it
Deoxys doesn't have the highest individual stat values in any stat now tho
Edit : maybe you can consider sp atk if you don't account for mega evolutions or chi-yu's beads of ruin
@@NoobGamer-ik4edyes, that was the point. They are saying they hope one day Deoxys gets to have the highest stats again
@@velvetbutterflythat, doesn’t sound like a good thing tho. Imagine how much of a monster deoxys would be when it reclaims that title
@@Lil_Ducky43 I feel like when you get to the highest extremes of Pokemon, being the highest in a single stat by 5 points doesn't matter a ton
We need move theorems. I hate Earthquake BTW...
I'm a little surprised there wasn't a section to talk about Trick Room, given how it exists to swap speed around and can make or break whole VGC matches
I soon stopped running hyper offensive teams cause a lot of them just don't have a way to counter trick room, as soon as they set it up game's finished
@@ParkyMarz There are ways to bring active countermeasures to it
Problem is now you're allocating resources to places that will be worse against not trick room
@@ParkyMarz That's why I use a combination of slow and fast pokemon on my team. Just in case of trick room abusers.
@@strangehobbyist4953 me too, I try to have one slow Pokémon. Generally speaking I've also found that I prefer having my Pokémon spread to be a little bit bulkier than the norm, I don't like mons that last 2 turns on the battlefield.
@@ParkyMarz you could just slap trick room on your slowest but still fast Mon to counter anything trick room
The deoxys-s theorem reached its absolute peak with Dragapult. It’s the perfect combination of speed, coverage and just enough attacking power and bulk to be a terrifying threat that cannot be overestimated. I look forward to more theorems in the future. Please do a theorem on Flareon. It has one amazing stat and a great BST but atrociously placed stats everywhere else.
You had me until you said "a great BST but atrociously placed stats." Since all the eeveelutions share the same BST, this strength isn't really a strength. If anything its just atrociously placed stats, which I think Heatmor would be a better example than Flareon
@@Whodjathink Heatmor at least has solid utilitarianism compared to Flareon. It can run white smoke to switch in on sticky webs, it can taunt slower tanks, go physical, special or mixed, and has great coverage overall. Before Gen VIII, Heatmor even had access to knock off and pursuit. They both languish in the lowest tiers due to being heavily outclassed by other fire types, such as Rapidash and Magmortar respectively. Eeveelutions are hype because they will always share the same base stat. it's how the stats are distributed that matters.
The thing is flareon isn’t hindered by its BST or stats at all. The problem is it learns literally no good moves.
@@snowblossom4961 As a Flareon enjoyer, this. Same reason I can't main my boy Typhlosion. They are hindered by a lack of good moves
@@gio9255 Everything you said...all true lol. My reason for bringing up Heatmor was because its counterpart, Durant, has a much better stat pool than Heatmor. Alongh with a really solid typing
Next we need the “slowking theorem” where having less speed could actually be a very good thing
In slowking’s case, giving its teammates safe pivots
To be fair, isn’t that done with Teleport?
@@FraserSouris Yes…
In Gen 8
In Gen 9, slowking has to use chilly reception, which doesn’t have teleport’s negative priority, so speed really does matter there (also this is why you’ll see stuff like min speed corv)
However, even in Gen 8, the reason why the slow twins are so good teleport users is a combination of sufficient bulk, regenerator, and they are slower than other popular teleport mons like blissey and clefable, which gives their teammates even more security on switch in
Yeah, and there's also the Trick Room strategies.
A more interesting one might be the difference between low speed and very low speed. Like, speed 50, and speed 20
Very low speed is almost always seen as an advantage, while low speed is much more temperamental.
oh I thought that was going to be explained in this video as well, since speed is everything which should include having lower speed leading to success. Another example is the cat that everyone loves to hate Incineroar giving in safe pivots with parting shot. Although in incin's case it has a lot more going than just speed compared to slowking
It makes sense that speed would be the most important thing because if you can’t do anything before you die, then it’s pretty useless usually. That’s why tailwind was so good in gen 9.
Edit: Thanks for all the likes and comments! Never gotten this many.
You mean in Doubles. Tailwind has never been great in Singles regardless of generation
@@breloommaster12 Yup and that’s why Talonflame’s ability was nerfed.
@@alexisschiffer4830 yeah
What good is speed if you can't deal or take a hit?
@@baalfgames5318Usually Pokémon like that use status moves or other things to be viable. Otherwise they don’t usually do much. Also just because its seems like the most important doesn’t make everything else irrelevant.
Next up is the "Talonflame Theorem" where priority can be everything.
Priority is basically just an advanced form of speed, showing the incredible advantage of reliably going first. I feel like Talonflame and Prankster abusers pretty much fall under the Deoxys Theorem.
@@FishFosh Prankster abusers generally need a second tool though, being bulk of some kind.
Frail Klefki wouldn't work. Klefki Klefki does work, and would likely still be doing great if Grimmsnarl didn't exist
thats what makes lele so busted.
@@FishFosh he said towards the end of this video that priority will be getting it’s own video, so I guess it DOESN’T fall under deoxys theorem lol
High Speed Pokémon: I am *inevitable*
Priority Moves/Abilities & Trick Room: *Hold my beer*
(I don’t play competitive, but I know Trick Room requires set up and can be countered. BUT when it pops off, all the Speed EVs and IVs the opponent invested in become useless while the Trick Room user has the advantage in turn order AND bulk. Priority Moves do beat both Speed, depending on priority brackets, and Trick Room, though they also have counters in the form of Quick Guard, Psychic Terrain, and certain abilities.)
Now time for "Why Movesets are Everything - The Clefable Theorum"
Well Clefable had unaware too
Also known as the "Magearna and Genesect theroum"
@@xy394 except they have plenty of other stuff, lol
GSC Snorlax and Nidoking would probably be better examples of that. Clefable only became amazing in DPP, when it got Magic Guard. The movepool was a massive help, of course, but Magic Guard was the big one for it.
*Theorem
I'm currently doing a Radical Red playthrough with only Kanto species. While planning my team, I was a bit disappointed with the lower BSTs of some of my favorite mons, like Fearow, Alolan Dugtrio, and Hisuian Electrode, but they're all pretty fast, and that has helped out big time in a lot of the competitive fights. It's a great advantage to go before your opponent and land your moves, weak as they might be, as it offers you a great advantage. Gotta agree with the Deoxys theorem.
This theorem works against hyper offense and balance but maybe not too much against stall
Having a lot of speed is fine but what you get in speed you may scarifice in other stats unless you use legendaries like Latios, Terrakion , Keldeo etc
Dragapult has a lot of speed and good decent Stab moves but wishes it had more power or bulk
@@bryanc1772 yep and the opponents in RR have almost exclusively very offensive teams where its about getting the KO first unless you stall yourself in RR ... which i hope nobody does lmao unless hardcore
Can we see a video on the differences between HP and defenses when it comes to bulk?
Yeah, I'd definitely be interested in the math behind that stuff. Like how 50/150/150 is better than 100/75/75.
@@bradensmith8682 the top adds up to 350,bottom is 250,bad example
@@pierre1069. yeah you are right, but HP feels like isn't as limited to its "base" number as as the other stats. Could just be as simple as, Bulky = Average (50ish) or Higher HP plus 100+ Defenses.
Effective bulk is the term. The bigger the base, the less you benefit from investment. Mons like blissey full invest in hp and def normally, but they max def and spdef in ubers to better take on kyogre. Blissey tanks physical moves over twice as well with investment, but only about 12% if calm max spdef. Blissey is an extreme example however
a video like this would probably be too math heavy for fsg, and ends up being too theoretical anyways, since it would mostly refer to redistributing already established base stats or comparing the bulk between different pokemon, once you start factoring in how EVs impact this, it gets really convoluted really quickly
When I was in elementary and asked my friends who were into competitive pokemon “What the most important stat was?” He replied speed. Basically, everything I’ve learned more or less confirms that.
Honestly surprised Mega Garchomp wasnt mentioned. How it has an insane attack stat and good bulk, but was nearly never used over regular Garchomp for the near sole reason of it loosing 10 base speed upon mega evolving.
The one thing I remember from the "How good was Garchomp actually" was the moment he casted M Garchomp aside based solely on that speed drop. I was like "...wow".
@@IceSpoon well it doesn’t help that Mega Garchomp was a sandstorm wallbreaker, which is too heavily specific, Normal Chomp is splashable. Plus mega chomp doesn’t hit as hard as choice band
@@Skullhawk13 I don’t know why the latter sentence is often used as an argument. At least you’re not forced to lock into a move.
@@skeetermania3202 mega chomp needs sandstorm and specifically rock/ground/steel moves to wallbreak
@@Skullhawk13 I’m not sure if I buy this. Any examples?
Seriously amazing stuff man. I’ve always loved the channel, but the theorem content pushed it even further. We appreciate you and the team ♥️
Speed truly **is** everything since you've been putting out these quality videos in such a fast pace. You're putting a Scarfed Deoxys Speed to shame!
I remember seeing that Landourous had 101 speed specifically, makingit always moved first against the others with 100 speed in the meta
He mentored Garchomp's trolly 102 Speed, but I am surprised he did not mention that Garchomp saw more use than Mega-Garchomp mostly because Mega lost 10 Speed. Its Mega gave it a less useful niche.
Honestly I’m surprised that the specific move “Shell Smash” wasn’t mentioned. You’d think that move that trades defenses for doubling speed and attack would get a honorary mention
Dragapult is the best example imo. Amazing speed stat really carries it, even through not having a good ghost physical STAB and even running specs sets
to be fair, even if you set its physical attack to 1, its stats would still be pretty good. That special attack is definitely solid, especially when paired with that speed.
Up next the “Pelipper Theorem” where just a change in ability can catapult you in usage
Eeeeeeh.
That's... kinda boring. The theorem boils down to "what thing does X, use the best thing that does X, when a better thing that does X shows up, use the new thing that does X"
Pelipper isn't exactly special, it's just that the last thing holding rain teams together was Politoed, and Politoed is one of the worst pokemon of all time underneath Drizzle. Politoed was always seen as a necessary evil on rain teams, that you just put up with. Pelipper isn't great, but it's only bad underneath Drizzle, not one of the worst pokemon of all time, and for the purposes of a rain team it actually brings a few advantages, like an immunity to come in on, recovery, and pivoting, rather than being the "going in 5-6 in exchange for rain" that Politoed effectively is.
The moment like, Gyarados, or Ludicolo, or something like them gets Drizzle... then Pelipper will fall to wherever Politoed is, and Politoed will fall into some deeper, wretched abyss where its friends Ledian, Sudowoodo, and Stantler hang out.
Until eventually you get to Sand status where multiple setters are independently good and worth using even if not running a sand team.
torkoal theorem sounds more fun 🌞🐢
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 not really peli is really good rain abuser itself. rn in UU rain mons r B+ ish mons while peli is solidly A rank for most players. Specs is so good.
Perhaps the better name is the “Ninetales Theorem” given that both Ninetales are reliant on the weathers they set to be good?
Tbh "Politoad Theorem: Why weather abbilities are great"
Next is the 'Silvally theorem'
Why a good move pool doesn't equal a good pokemon
(Alt) why a good BST isn't everything
the clefable theorem?
@@imcoralto be fair, Nidoking also has Sheer force, Life orb and a good enough special stat to work with. There’s a reason Sheer force is one of the best offensive abilities in the game
I’ve always believed it’s speed combined with a good attack stat if you want to be offensive and a good moveset if you want to be supportive.
*Fun fact:* What you're hearing is how fast Kellen actually talks. Like a digeridoo player, he's mastered the ability to inhale and speak at the same time without stopping between sentences.
I think an interesting related effect of speed creep across the generations is seeing classic scarf Pokémon not being able to cut it with a scarf anymore like breloom and magnezone
Been waiting for the next in this series - and THIS is the one I'm most excited about.
An interesting analysis case is Mega Garchomp, a pokemon with BST than the base form but whose lower speed made it virtually outclassed by the base form
Attack and Defense: haha now speed get to be….wait what?
This is a fascinating topic in the context of Ubers.
Ubers is dominated by that base 90 speed that most of the tier has, contrasted by the frequency of 130+ that largely means speed investment is entirely based on speed creeping. Being faster than 90 is a HUGE advantage, but ALSO can turn into a monkey's paw, since being at like 95 speed (see Rayquaza) is very nearly a commitment to enough speed investment to beat all other base 90s.
Ubers is such a fun tier.
Well. It was prior to gen 8.
it doesnt matter what game it is, even one with low interactivity like this, speed is like the most important stat and defines everything
Time for how moveset is about everything- “The Clefable Theorem “ and how HP doesn’t transfer directly to great bulk, “ The Wailord Theorem “ Next time
Its pretty fitting how fast I came to watch this video, given the theme of it :)
would love to see a video on Four move slot syndrome and how it can affect games
Digimon In The World DS/Dawn/Dusk Games Can Have UP TO 7 MOVES EACH!Because Of This,I Gave My Team Of 6 Chronomon All The Strongest Moves In The Game With Hacks!
@@chimuoma390 The overuse of capitalization..
I’d call it the Starmie theorem personally.
Iron Bundle having a base 136 speed is the best thing it could have gifted to itself. Outspeeding Flutter Mane, the Bicycles and Chien Pao by a whopping 1 point. Jellicent vs Tyranitar and Dragapult vs Zeraora among others.
This channel will never run out of content. Big win.
I agree with speed, this can be true for trickroom too since it is the same thing of what you want to get from speed (moving first)
I'm sorry but 1:13 is the greatest unintentional joke in this video, like, you open a box, and then... "your balls will thank you"
Hi false swipe I love your content. It's always informative and watching the videos has helped me get better at showdown.
The thumbnail art is absolutely perfect, love it.
Up next the Blissey Theorem, where HP only matters if you have the right amount of defense
Tbf if a pokemon had like 1 billion health I doubt it would need a lot of defense
@@Blanktester685 Tell that to Guzzlord or Wailord.
@@DarkKnightofHeaven yeah, but is their HP 1 billion? No. Closer to like... 800
@@Blanktester685 Though I understand where you're coming from, Blissey hits the maximum theoretical value already (255 base, 714 total). That 255 value has existed since Gen 1, and there's nothing stopping Game Freak from rising the bar with a new entry since technology has improved. But I appreciate it that they have not raised that bar.
uhm, with full investment, Blissey's physical bulk isn't even that bad. Its actually hilarious, how many physical attackers in gen 3 can't get past it.
So even in pokemon the "Speed is War" mantra still holds true
Another Theorem idea that could be good is the Smeargle Theorem, where sheer movepool variety can overcome a ton of disadvantages, such as Smeargle's baby pokemon tier stats, since they can be molded to play a very specific role or roles that other mons cannot do due to just not having all of the pieces needed
FSG: Why Speed...Might Be Everything
Kingambit and Dragonite: "I;m gonna pretend I didn't see that"
We need a "The Tinkaton theorem, why good typing might just be everything"
Cant wait for the "Thunder Theorem" where its debated which is more important in a moveset, power or reliability.
We need the Shedinja theorem why abilities also might be everything
This
Are you... KIDDING me?! that ability is very situational. .
@@TheDeepThinker-sq3iyname one aspect in literally any strategy game ever that isn't technically situational
@@velvetbutterfly Well yes, I kinda see your point... but. . no. . . yea, maybe it kinda ALL can be kinda situational sometimes... but that's only SOMETIMES! strategy games REQUIRES consistency to be successful.
And shedinja... is consistently either a hit.. or a miss. while I can understand it DOES have the power to shut some mons down... this comes at the VERY costly price of frailty. there's gonna be a LOT to worry about in order to be able to CONSISTENTLY throw that out into the field. damaging weather and entry hazards for one, and EVEN if you have the means to be able to remove ALL of that... THAT amount of settup alone is going to be lagging you down more than what its worth JUST to keep that thing alive.
And yes... while I also understand that there are held items that can protect you from those things... but there AREN'T any items that could protect you from ALL of those things at once. heavey duty boots? ok... just pray you don't have to be dealing with a constant game of cat and mouse with a sandstream or snow warning pokemon... saftey goggles? entry hazzords get to say hi. .
So ok... what are some OTHER things to have to be worrying about even if I HAVE the means to be preventing ALL of these conditions... lets see. . . damaging on-contact abilitys... any status move that can inflict ANY kind of damage.... the pursuit move. . . . . and if you've got an answer for ALL of this. . . than wow.... that's gotta be ONE bloated ass team full of SO many redundancies JUST to make that thing work.
So ok... yea, even GOOD teams WITHOUT the shedinja can come with its own situational flaws, such as maybe not having the room for things like the taunt and then running into a lvl 1 FEAR team and just NOT being able to do anything about whatever absurd, RANDOM thing you might encounter in other teams, or just simply that random crit that just ruins everything... but. . . HOW LIKELY are you to be encountering these one off issues vs a whole... VAST OCEAN OF ENTRY HAZZORD, WEATHER INFESTED METTA GAME?!
So no... just take that whole "oH. . nAmE oNe A.s.P.e.C.t of literally A n Y strategy game... E - V - E - rrr. . . de.. that ISN'T technically situational. . ." back to whatever cheap vendor you got it from. . and just sell it back to him, because you've still got a LOT to know about this game. . .
Also, kinda wasn't really mad or anything... just. . I dunno, felt like my response just needed to be this way(uh.. lol).
@@TheDeepThinker-sq3iy no the ability is very consistent its shedinjas stats and typing that make it situational
I remember using Electrode really early into the gen 9 meta when Murkrow was the best Pokémon in the game (rather than the 4th best lol).
I wanted to freely taunt Murkrow after it sets up Tailwind without using Prankster, as that wouldn't affect Murkrow. So I turned to the neglected explosive molecule in hopes of finding a counter for Murkrow teams.
I raised that bugger's Speed to its maximum and slapped on a Choice Scarf (because I had no other use for that thing), and it actually outside quite a few things even under Tailwind.
It's amazing how just one move going before an opponent can act has such a dynamic impact on a game.
Why HP isnt everything: the blissey theorum.
(Chansey is always higher tier because of eviolite, giving it atleast some sort of a defense stat)
Another Pokemon that could've been mentioned was Jolteon. In Gen 2, it was outclassed by Raikou due to lesser power and Bulk, and its higher Speed stat was gratuitous. But all that changed in Gen 3, when Dugtrio gained Arena Trap, and Raikou was mostly dominated by it, unable to OHKO Dugtrio with even a super effective Hidden Power and crushed by Earthquake. Meanwhile, Jolteon's naturally high Speed outran Dugtrio, potentially beating it if it landed Hidden Power on a Dugtrio switching in, or to Baton Pass out into another teammate, even providing support with Wish.
One other factor that I don’t think was mentioned: Trick Room
Moving first in Chess is considered a fairly big advantage (the game is theorized to be a draw with perfect play, but more inaccuracies lead to White victory than Black). A Chess game lasts something like 20 (short), 40 (medium) or 60 (long) moves (40/80/120 if counting moves for White and Black separately), and can either finish with both players having made the same number of moves or with White having made one more move than Black, depending on whose move the game ends on. Mathematically, this means White has a 1 move lead 50% of the time, or a 0,5 move lead on average, or a head start of 1/80 (1.25%) of a medium-length game.
Most critical 1v1 match-ups in Pokémon are OHKOs, 2HKOs or 3HKOs, meaning they last 0,5 - 3 full turns, or 1-6 individual moves. In a 1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 and 6 turn fight, respectively, the faster mon gets 100%, 50%, 67%, 50%, 60% and 50% of the moves vs 0/50/33/50/40/50 for the slower mon. If all 6 outcomes had equal probability (and no matchups were longer), the faster mon would make 63% (377/600) of all the moves on average, vs 37% (223/600) for the slower. 63 is 1.7 times or 170% as much as 37, so the faster mon would move 70% more often -- getting 5 moves for every 3 moves its opponent gets (3x1.7=5.1).
After the deoxys theorem I feel like there should be a Deoxys-N Theorem where that pokemon has a good stats for the tiers but was entirely outclass by their other form or competitor to the point of having no usage like how deoxys normal having an hilariously broken stats but it has no usage when deoxys-A exist whose non-existent bulk made no difference compare to deoxys-N
We call those "Ubers by technicality"
This has gotta be the best thumbnail this channel has ever made
You missed a really cool thing that Electrode is is Staple in gen 1 Nintendo cup 1997 for its speed and is more common than Jolteon in modern-day matches of the format. It's mostly because the speed creep from legal levels ranging from 50-55, which personally I think you missed out on. Lv55 Tauros being faster and OHKOing lv50 Alakazam for example, forcing it to run at least lv52 to escape the speed creep.
What the hell have you wrote
Addition: Sticky Web! "The idea of threats being unstoppable when you can no longer outspeed them" is perfect for this!
As Deoxys is my favorite pokemon, I appreciate having a theorum named after him.
As a non-guy who enjoys your vids... it was still funny to see that you, too, have been sponsored by manscaped. Great vid as usual
Speed is DEFINITELY everything! Why else would I use almost exclusively sweepers?
Speed has always been the odd stat out but its crazy how important it is. Like we generally just think of speed as an offensive tool since the offensive pokemon tend to have higher speed stats but speed makes défensive so much more difficult to handle. Like remeber that time Hippowdon started running speed just to shut down machamp?
Big fan of the normal videos but I will say I am loving these types of videos
During the NetBattle era (which was up to and including gen 3), the most common variants of Deoxys were Attack and Defense. Rayquaza often had Extremespeed to deal with Attack Deoxys. Attack Deoxys itself often ran Extremespeed just because it always had Choice Band, not because it was particularly trying to outspeed anything. Extremespeed was at least usable against the slower Extremespeed Rayquaza or the occasional Ninjask.
Speed Deoxys in ubers was mainly viewed as an alternative to Defense Deoxys for Taunting. Speed Deoxys was less popular because it lacked the killer offense that the majority of other ubers had and was likely to get 2HKOed by unbuffed enemy legendaries. The latter problem was mainly due to the available ubers. No uber was weak to Psychic and most ubers (+Tyrannitar and Metagross from the OU bracket) actually resisted it, so ubers often opted to drop STAB Psychic from their moveset. The only other moves you'd see that Speed Deoxys could switch into with a resistance were Superpower and Focus Punch... which would hurt like all heck anyways.
Despite those negative points, Speed Deoxys was much better against SkarmBliss than Defense Deoxys. OU players who were new to the ubers metagame would sometimes use SkarmBliss as a crutch to feel out the metagame. (Skarmory would fall short of expectations in the ubers metagame though)... Speed Deoxys was also an ironic counter to Attack Deoxys since both of them had Extremespeed.
It's interesting to hear that Speed Deoxys was more desirable in later generations, but I don't think "Speed is everything" worked for Speed Deoxys' favor in gen 3.
The next Theorem should be how Stats cant rescue you (most of the time) if your Movepool is shallow. Entei in early gens, Flareon, Zamaztenta, Kuyrem-Black and many more Mons suffer or suffered immensely because they dont have great movepools that offer coverage or utillity.
I think the best example of this would be Regieleki. Is UU because of awful movepool.
flareon and zamazenta(for and uber) have bad stats tbh
@@N12015 Not like it applies to VGC.
Let's not forget the king of speed trumping everything: Swift Swim Magikarp
I’m loving this theorem vids ❤
One of the next theorems might be the stall theorem (Umbreon theorem), how normally useless pokemon can become terrifying toxic stallers
Yeah, it's always bugged me in Pokemon and in most RPG's how important speed is. Luckily Pokemon doesn't combine speed and accuracy into one stat like some RPG's do (and that accuracy malarkey is mostly banned in competitive...). Buy yeah, Speed is pretty much always that one stat where there isn't ever a middle ground; it's either no speed or all speed.
He could have just said “look at truck room in the most prominent meta games” but nah he made a whole video for us full of examples. Keep it up.
I wonder if well get a wailord theorem being that high hp doesnt always translate well to good defenses
This was one of the theorems I was suggesting in a previous video!! I'm glad you made it, very well made video!
I am surprised Regieleki wasn't mentioned- especially with how dominant it was in VGC thanks purely to its speed control options thanks to its own insane speed.
Next one is the "trick room theorem" where people try to out slow each other
Fun little story relating to speed. So, I did a Hardcore Nuzlocke of Omega Ruby and was fighting Wally. I was scrambling to find an answer for Mega Gallade it cause I had made some very bad plays and thus did not have a reliable switch in. I knew Mega Gallade probably outsped my entire team so I didn't know what to do. That was until I remember that yes, Mega Gallade is faster but regular Gallade might not be. Why does this matter if Wally is gonna Mega evolve Gallade immediately? Well Megas only got their potential speed boost the turn after they Mega Evolve in gen 6 (for...some reason). My Zangoose was on the field and sure enough, Zangoose's speed is ten points higher than regular Gallade leading to me K.Oing it with a Swords Dance boosted Return.
How in heavens sake does this video exist without harping about Regieleki - the mon that single handedly invalidated so many other mons and strats especially in VGC.
I love this series. I find the game theory so interesting as a person who'd never played Pokemon competitively!
Can’t wait for the incoming “Why HP may be something - The Blissey / Chansey Theorem”
Cetitan and Iron Hands are likely gonna have a spotlight in that episode.
Nah, Wailord and Guzzlord (and others) disagree. You need some decent defense stats, too.
😊I think the inverse is things like slow U-Turn / Volt Switch / Teleport on support mons to bring out huge threats that otherwise wouldn't be able to take the hit if the switch was fast. OU Pelipper.
been lovin this series a ton :) can't wait to see a video on abilities and how they affect pokemon because a pokemon like torkoal can go from NU and PU to UU and OU
I have never seen a competitive metagame where slow characters had any redeeming qualities that actually meant anything in the long run.
So, Regieleki got banned. The video was right about Speed (Tera Ice was nutty)
Speed is exactly why I like and consider myself as Trick Room player more than anything.
To me it's just much easier to take the instant loss regarding to speed wars and try to work around that with a simple trick room, than it is to take part of that speed fight (which also includes the supporting moves such as Tailwind, electric web etc and weather effects) and - if I lose it - pretty much just smile and lose outright anyway.
And best part is that Trick Room also pretty much flip the tables since the speed invested enemy is now invested completely against that. And usually the speed mons are more frail and hard hitting, where as trick room mons are more bulky and hard hitting, so they still hit just as hard as they would, but also take a retaliation hit (if it comes to that) pretty safe as well.
I wonder how Pokemon would change if having Speed only increased the likelihood of going first. The faster you are than your foe, the more likely you'd go before them, but a 1 point difference would be effectively the same as a Speed tie in current Pokemon.
Quick Claw the Meta
I've thought about this, where every 1 speed point puts tickets into a pool and is drawn randomly. So if you have a 100 speed pokemon vs a 200 speed one, the 200 speed one would still have a 2/3rds chance to attack first from the random draw of those 300 tickets
this would probably require a massive rework on the speed stat thou, like lowering speed on slow pokemon and boosting speed on fast pokemon to make sure that slow mons don't move first too often. Quick Claw would need a rework too like just placing a static amount of tickets into the pool, but would have to do it in a way that fast pokemon wouldn't just abuse it.
@@playcube4564 Interesting use of the word "tickets" here, but I see where you're coming from.
Still, I could see how this would reduce the amount of skill required to beat the game. With being able to move first being so important, a lot more games would come down to pure dumb luck.
Maybe the tropious theorem. You can have all the amazing abilities in the world but if you are too weak to use them it doesnt matter
I feel like this should be called the Tauros therom because Tauros' speed was a major reason for it's place in Gen 1 and Speed was really important fot Crits in that gen
Tauros had great traits in every area. Deoxys has speed and movepool, and only speed and movepool
Deoxys theorem sounds more iconic tho
Tauros theorem sounds more like a “you will be powercrept to PU” Theorem
Video ideas:
why HP isn't everything - the Guzzlord theorem
why a good ability is everything - the Pelipper theorem
why balanced stats aren't everything - the Silvally theorem
why a good movepool is everything - the Flareon theorem
why a bad defensive typing isn't necesarilly anything - the Weavile theorem
Although if your balanced stats are high enough, they become very good (Arceus says hello with 120 across the board)
8:08 - "And [Electrode] only had Light Screen, not even Reflect."
I checked Electrode on Serebii time ago and saw that it COULD learn Reflect... only in Gen I (and also Hisuian Electrode can learn Reflect but not Light Screen), and after that it was unable to learn the move in the following generations. The most bizarre thing is that Electrode was able to learn Reflect again in Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, but not in any other subsequent game despite the fact it's still a TM...
you really called this the "deoxys theorem" when regieleki exists? the audacity
Next is the pikachu theorem, where a Pokémon can get something busted as hell, but is still not usable.
One of my favourite Ubers sets I ran during gen 6 and 7 involved a Blaziken purely built for Baton Passing. Speed Boost is nasty enough on its own, but I opted for Bulk Up in addition instead of Swords Dance. Between Protect and the Focus Sash, I always got SOMETHING out of this Blaziken, and from there I could pass it to basically anyone on my team and the resultant stats would wreak havoc. But honestly, my favourite mon to pass it to was my Primal Groudon.
See, the great thing about Primal Groudon is that its base offences are already completely insane. So I actually built mine as specially-defensive, because even an uninvested Fire Punch from Pdon will rip holes in just about anything. So then imagine that with speed, attack, and defence buffs... it was heinous. I loved it.
Now all we need is explaining why only high hp is a good/bad thing, and how limited or diverse move pools can be a good/bad thing.
Next up is the "Swampert Theorem", where why the specialization isn't everything, in other words, many times it's good having well balanced stats.
Baton pass ninjask is a great way of presenting this idea. It would set up your sweeper while sub and protect stalling and getting ready for your sweepers to do their job.
I remember back when I played Sun/Moon, I went with a team that only had that region's Pokemon, so Hau's Raichu was often a major threat because my team would always get hit by it before they could do anything.
To add to this point: I have often found myself thinking during teambuilding, "if this game had an item that simply said "raises the holder's Speed by 1" I would use it. No, not 1 as in 1 stage. 1 as in _1 point_ just to win all speed-ties without being scarf-locked.
Certainly an item that gave a 20% boost to Speed would see a ton of use. Maybe even if it only applied to moves of one type like the damage increase from Silk Scarf, Charcoal, Mystic Water, etc. or only to Super Effective moves like the bonus from Expert Belt.
This entire video reminded me of how, in Dragon Ball Z's Android / Cell Arc, it was a plot point that the ultimate power up form, had to be FAST.
That sure Trunks technically managed to achieved the form that had THE POWER to defeat Perfect Cell.... but was too bulky and slow he couldn't hit him at all. He needed to be the perfect balance of high speed and power to defeat him
It is also a plot point that for some reason, when Perfect Cell got angry against Gohan, he took on a similar form to Trunks’ Super Saiyan 3.
"Simply being the literal fastest pokemon...." And then GF had to introduce Regileki in Sw/Sh.