If you keep the decal off the rollers they spin with much less wobble. I use the same LCA roller and when I roll on the X impact decal I get similar results to what you found but when I keep the decal off the rollers they all spin dead nuts or
You guys should also measure the spine variance and see if there is a peak in the spine. I use the carnivores specifically because I couldn’t find a seam when spine indexing and really liked that. Thanks for the reviews. Let’s see when the long draw guy reviews will come out
I test shot one of these (bare shaft) at my local pro shop in a 250 spine, 80 grain insert system and 100 grain tip and it was bullet hole through paper (70 lb Realm SR6). Very impressed. It checked the box for the elk setup I want. Thanks so much for doing this review as I will make sure every one is spine tested. I have learned so much from watching your videos and will check your site first for all my needs in the future. Keep the videos coming! I also love all the videos you do with the Elkshape crew.
Love these arrow checks thanks guys for helping give good info on products my local shops do not carry a good supply of stuff so I have to count on videos like this to get my information
I appreciate the tests. The empirical data can't be argued with. This industry, as well as many others, throws fancy labels in your face through sponsorships of content creators. Everyone needs to pay the bills, no docking that. But the information becomes biased. Well, more biased than some. no one is without bias. There is a special niche created by your expertise, MFJJ. YOu run a shop and the intent is to sell good products. Not be given stuff to sell us. Every year, when you do your taxes, it shows I'm sure. So thank you. I look forward to more content using the scientific method.
i would like to know the differences in deflection in a 12pac. are they all within .010 or could a pack of .400s vary from .380-420? thats more of a factor for good arrow flight than weight or straightness variations IMO.
Shooting these for past 2 years with 80 grain aluminum FOCOS outserts with a 100g Iron Will single bevel Broadheads. Running about 16% FOC with a finished 419g arrow. I love them. FYI I will spin them all before building them and will cut off bad ends if any arise
I’m shooting these right now with the FOCOS system and pin nocks. There is a lot to like about them, but like you found there were a lot of wobblers. I bought 2 dozen and out of 24 I only selected 11 hunters, the rest are too wobbly. I had 1 that was not suitable for a target arrow-that’s bad! The FOCOS work well and have saved me a few arrows, but they are pricey. I’m running the pin nocks to save arrows, but they do hurt the FOC a bit. I do like how they fly and they do hit hard, so overall they are what I want out of an arrow, but could be straighter, as you showed here. My specs are as follows: Black Eagle X-impact Spine: 250, 9.5 GPI, 30” Shaft weight: 285 grains FOCOS: 80 grains Vanes: 26.6 grains Nock: 16.6 grains BH: 125 grains TAW (total arrow weight): 532.8 grains FOC: 13.8% Velocity: 263 fps Kinetic Energy: 81.69 ft lbs Momentum: 0.621 slugs
You cannot roll an arrow where the decals or sticker are in the center and expect it not to wobble. You need a wider arrow spinner where it's only on the black part of the arrow.
I have both. I'm torn on one thing other than the wobblers. That would be is the high modulus makeup as durable as the VAP TKO which is going to be tough as nails with the extra 90% wrap over the entire shaft. Kinda apples & oranges due to the arrow chart spine difference. I'm not using the Black Eagle components. Too many parts to me means one more thing to go wrong. I use the Valkyrie Vikimg Centerpin system which eliminates the failure point behind the outsert. However if I didn't use that I would probably use the VAP TKO with a 300 spine. I do have 250 spine X-Impact's & VAP TKO's @ a 300 spine. I'm making some recurve X-Impact's right now which r a no-brainer with a 400 spine & alot of weight up front. There is a noticeable difference between the light outsert & the heavier steel outsert in accuracy consistency as well as the energy downrange. Very tight tolerances do help since all those steel inserts that Valkyrie makes r made for 4mm arrows. Nothing else. The original Victory VAPS combo with their 95 grain steel outserts had failures even when a great 125 grain head was put on the front. Not even a close comparison as far as shootability & durability goes.
there is actually an extreme spread of 0.6; from the 269.3-268.7 listed in the still frames at the end. But a standard deviation of 0.17, which is fantastic.
How well do those arrow shafts resist disintegration from repeated impacts into a target? I've still got a half dozen Carbon Revolution Speed Pro Max shafts rated 35-75 lbs sitting here. That's because the first half dozen I fletched and used disintegrated in my hands when I went to pull them from my targets, after putting about 50 shots through them. I tossed them out, and have been looking for a light arrow with the diameter of a 5mm Axis. Seems like those Black Eagles with the .204 I.D. shaft would fit the 5mm Axis parts easily, so I would just use the HIT inserts with those shafts, but only if they can take repeated impacts well and not disintegrate.
Hi Thank you very much for all the reviews, it's really helping much to make a decision. I want to ask you to make a review of Bear Redemption EKO. Thanks in advance
Do you number each and weigh in order to blueprint balance shafts to nock to inserts to tips - like they do with balancing Pistons/Connecting rods in Engines..?
Thank you I been thinking about getting some of them do you think you will be testing vaps in the future? Ive been wanting to go with a light micro diameter arrow for awhile now..
I’m in need of some new arrows. Do you sell built arrows to ship or just the parts to build yourself? What arrows are the best you’ve found so far? When I bought my Matthew’s v3 and didn’t know a whole lot my stupid local pro shop sold me 350 spine arrows and I shoot a 31” arrow 60-70lb draw. I couldn’t figure out for a while why some of my arrows kicked to the side coming out of my bow and why my grouping was inconsistent. My grouping also got worse when I increased to 70 pound draw probably for that reason
How do axis long range 4mm compare? Just looking at low drag small diameter 4mm. I have shot victory elite and deep impact by black eagle. Question do deep 6 inserts fit other brands or do you have to keep Easton arrows paired with hit inserts
I’d like to see if there is a big difference in 5mm 4mm long distance both have there good and bad I’ve done fmj’s. And I’d like to see what you think of the arrows…
@mfjj, check out element archery, I'm shooting nucleus arrows... around 7.2gr per inch comes with 100gr insert, standard .244/246 arrows. Great arrows light but heavy at the same point.
That's pretty bad considering that Black Eagle says that they have no run out at the ends. When I buy .001 shafts, I expect no wobble at either end.....on all of the shafts.
Depends on straightness. .001 Black Eagle Rampages are about $12 per arrow, .003 Rampages again @ $10.60 per. Close behind that would be Victory RIP XV(.003-$12.10, .001-$13.75), 3DHV($13.33, ) and RIP's (.001-$13.75, .003-$11.70)
@@mikeguy9668 surprisingly the x impact are 9.5 gpi for the 250 spine and 8.1 gpi for the 300 spine while the Sirius Orion’s are 9.03 gpi for the 250 spine and 8.09 for the 300 spine. They are pretty much the same until you start getting to those heavier spines past 300
Used these years ago…not my cup of tea. To thin, to weak, components don’t build confidence, customer service was not that great considering I did exactly what they said and inserts kept coming off. They essentially said sorry bro.
If you keep the decal off the rollers they spin with much less wobble. I use the same LCA roller and when I roll on the X impact decal I get similar results to what you found but when I keep the decal off the rollers they all spin dead nuts or
You guys should also measure the spine variance and see if there is a peak in the spine. I use the carnivores specifically because I couldn’t find a seam when spine indexing and really liked that. Thanks for the reviews. Let’s see when the long draw guy reviews will come out
I test shot one of these (bare shaft) at my local pro shop in a 250 spine, 80 grain insert system and 100 grain tip and it was bullet hole through paper (70 lb Realm SR6). Very impressed. It checked the box for the elk setup I want. Thanks so much for doing this review as I will make sure every one is spine tested. I have learned so much from watching your videos and will check your site first for all my needs in the future. Keep the videos coming! I also love all the videos you do with the Elkshape crew.
Can you go over other arrow components, as well? Insert/outsert pros and cons of both? Thanks
Love these arrow checks thanks guys for helping give good info on products my local shops do not carry a good supply of stuff so I have to count on videos like this to get my information
I appreciate the tests. The empirical data can't be argued with. This industry, as well as many others, throws fancy labels in your face through sponsorships of content creators. Everyone needs to pay the bills, no docking that. But the information becomes biased. Well, more biased than some. no one is without bias. There is a special niche created by your expertise, MFJJ. YOu run a shop and the intent is to sell good products. Not be given stuff to sell us. Every year, when you do your taxes, it shows I'm sure.
So thank you. I look forward to more content using the scientific method.
i would like to know the differences in deflection in a 12pac. are they all within .010 or could a pack of .400s vary from .380-420? thats more of a factor for good arrow flight than weight or straightness variations IMO.
Shooting these for past 2 years with 80 grain aluminum FOCOS outserts with a 100g Iron Will single bevel Broadheads.
Running about 16% FOC with a finished 419g arrow.
I love them.
FYI
I will spin them all before building them and will cut off bad ends if any arise
I’m shooting these right now with the FOCOS system and pin nocks.
There is a lot to like about them, but like you found there were a lot of wobblers. I bought 2 dozen and out of 24 I only selected 11 hunters, the rest are too wobbly. I had 1 that was not suitable for a target arrow-that’s bad! The FOCOS work well and have saved me a few arrows, but they are pricey. I’m running the pin nocks to save arrows, but they do hurt the FOC a bit. I do like how they fly and they do hit hard, so overall they are what I want out of an arrow, but could be straighter, as you showed here. My specs are as follows:
Black Eagle X-impact
Spine: 250, 9.5 GPI, 30”
Shaft weight: 285 grains
FOCOS: 80 grains
Vanes: 26.6 grains
Nock: 16.6 grains
BH: 125 grains
TAW (total arrow weight): 532.8 grains
FOC: 13.8%
Velocity: 263 fps
Kinetic Energy: 81.69 ft lbs
Momentum: 0.621 slugs
You cannot roll an arrow where the decals or sticker are in the center and expect it not to wobble. You need a wider arrow spinner where it's only on the black part of the arrow.
Very thorough test
Would like to see a review on some VAP TKO arrows and what your thoughts are on them love the videos keep up the good work 👍🏽
MFJJ ! you should do 3 arrow builds start to finish inserts fletchings points , what you would use , cheaper mid and high end arrow !?
I like the series. Got to keep them manufacturers accountable. I would like to see the victory VAP arrows tested and a broad head tune video
I second that! Would really like to see as well. Really appreciate the length, keeps it all business and no fluff
I have both. I'm torn on one thing other than the wobblers. That would be is the high modulus makeup as durable as the VAP TKO which is going to be tough as nails with the extra 90% wrap over the entire shaft. Kinda apples & oranges due to the arrow chart spine difference. I'm not using the Black Eagle components. Too many parts to me means one more thing to go wrong. I use the Valkyrie Vikimg Centerpin system which eliminates the failure point behind the outsert. However if I didn't use that I would probably use the VAP TKO with a 300 spine. I do have 250 spine X-Impact's & VAP TKO's @ a 300 spine. I'm making some recurve X-Impact's right now which r a no-brainer with a 400 spine & alot of weight up front. There is a noticeable difference between the light outsert & the heavier steel outsert in accuracy consistency as well as the energy downrange. Very tight tolerances do help since all those steel inserts that Valkyrie makes r made for 4mm arrows. Nothing else. The original Victory VAPS combo with their 95 grain steel outserts had failures even when a great 125 grain head was put on the front. Not even a close comparison as far as shootability & durability goes.
there is actually an extreme spread of 0.6; from the 269.3-268.7 listed in the still frames at the end. But a standard deviation of 0.17, which is fantastic.
Would love to see a review on the Victory vip xv arrows!
Digging the content. Would love to see a video with tips on getting your first target rig.
Great videos keep them coming! Spine tolerance would be sweet too! Maybe rank the arrows at the end.
Sirrius Orion fan here. Amazing tough arrow
How well do those arrow shafts resist disintegration from repeated impacts into a target? I've still got a half dozen Carbon Revolution Speed Pro Max shafts rated 35-75 lbs sitting here. That's because the first half dozen I fletched and used disintegrated in my hands when I went to pull them from my targets, after putting about 50 shots through them. I tossed them out, and have been looking for a light arrow with the diameter of a 5mm Axis.
Seems like those Black Eagles with the .204 I.D. shaft would fit the 5mm Axis parts easily, so I would just use the HIT inserts with those shafts, but only if they can take repeated impacts well and not disintegrate.
Can you do a comparison between rip tko’s and rip xv’s?
Hi
Thank you very much for all the reviews, it's really helping much to make a decision.
I want to ask you to make a review of Bear Redemption EKO.
Thanks in advance
I believe Sirius Orions are even lower GPI, and from what I've seen, even more durable. Expensive though.
Lancaster of the west! I’d like to see a little more thorough straight test. Maybe a dial indicator! I know you got one in all that inventory!!
Love the videos keep up the good work
Do you number each and weigh in order to blueprint balance shafts to nock to inserts to tips - like they do with balancing Pistons/Connecting rods in Engines..?
Paper tune video please on v3x 33
It’s a good arrow. But in pulling out of my foam big shot target the focos outsert fell off 😢
A good substitute for their insert system is victories shock system
Love ur videos id love to see more reviews on longer bows it seems u like the 30 to 33 in bows
Are you going to make a video on how long arrows should be or where to cut them..thanks
What’s a good bow case that I can bring on a plane to Canada for hunting?
I bought 6 from my local shop. I still like the Rip TKO Elite more.
Thank you I been thinking about getting some of them do you think you will be testing vaps in the future? Ive been wanting to go with a light micro diameter arrow for awhile now..
I’m in need of some new arrows. Do you sell built arrows to ship or just the parts to build yourself? What arrows are the best you’ve found so far? When I bought my Matthew’s v3 and didn’t know a whole lot my stupid local pro shop sold me 350 spine arrows and I shoot a 31” arrow 60-70lb draw. I couldn’t figure out for a while why some of my arrows kicked to the side coming out of my bow and why my grouping was inconsistent. My grouping also got worse when I increased to 70 pound draw probably for that reason
How do axis long range 4mm compare? Just looking at low drag small diameter 4mm. I have shot victory elite and deep impact by black eagle. Question do deep 6 inserts fit other brands or do you have to keep Easton arrows paired with hit inserts
If you liked a smaller diameter arrow what insert would you run? That’s tough?
Good job
I’d like to see if there is a big difference in 5mm 4mm long distance both have there good and bad I’ve done fmj’s. And I’d like to see what you think of the arrows…
What's the uncut length? - with a 32" draw I'm not interested in cutting for straightness if I can't use it after.
99% of archers wont be able to tell the difference between .001 & .003.
@mfjj, check out element archery, I'm shooting nucleus arrows... around 7.2gr per inch comes with 100gr insert, standard .244/246 arrows. Great arrows light but heavy at the same point.
How do you come arrow FOC being 15%? With arrow weight being pretty close to the same between different arrows. What is an ideal arrow weight for TAC?
Mfjj I have a 27" draw, what would be a couple flagship bows you'd recommend I check out?
you need to add the link to where we can buy the arrows in the description.
Like these arrows but the Deep Impact are VERY durable!!!
great video!!!
Need a broad head tuning video
Are they good hunting arrows or just 3D?
Sirius has a 166 that’s 8.1 as well. Also i only hunt and use sleeves
loving this series. would love to see your review and thoughts on easton FMJ.
Well. That explains how much you like these. Lol
Hey do you have any victory RIP elite 300 in stock?
Can you test the killin stix
Can you do the arachnid archery arrows?
That's pretty bad considering that Black Eagle says that they have no run out at the ends. When I buy .001 shafts, I expect no wobble at either end.....on all of the shafts.
seems to be some funny math 269.3-268.7=.06 but love the review
Make a video how short draw can make good foc. My draw is 26 shooting 70lbs. Hard for me to achieve good foc
I shot X Impacts for FITA back in 2015, good arrows and yeah stupidly light😂
Too pricy for me (and I like a .204). What would be the best of the inexpensive 204's? Thanks to those who have been replying!!!
Depends on straightness. .001 Black Eagle Rampages are about $12 per arrow, .003 Rampages again @ $10.60 per. Close behind that would be Victory RIP XV(.003-$12.10, .001-$13.75), 3DHV($13.33, ) and RIP's (.001-$13.75, .003-$11.70)
The range between the heaviest and lightest arrow is 0.6. The True variance (how much the sample varies from the mean) is 0.03 👍
More string building vids thanks
ethics archery have a amazing components for 166
I would like to see a fmj 4mm or a gold tip kinetic pierce platinum please and thanky
Tried finding it myself but can anyone answer these .166 arrows are they smaller than a 4mm arrow or equal too? Thank you for anyone that knows
Same size O.D., depending on spine though the I.D. changes
Come on with the bow press drill mod vid!
Build some of these with Iron Wills components. Makes .166’s way better.
Sirius archery Orion
Sirius archery make a lighter gpi micro diameter shaft
You guys should do the Sirius Orion .166 micro diameter because the 250 spine on that arrow is lighter than the x impacts by .5 of a grain
Don't think they're lighter. But they are far tougher
@@mikeguy9668 surprisingly the x impact are 9.5 gpi for the 250 spine and 8.1 gpi for the 300 spine while the Sirius Orion’s are 9.03 gpi for the 250 spine and 8.09 for the 300 spine. They are pretty much the same until you start getting to those heavier spines past 300
Good setup for 3d but not for hunting
Used these years ago…not my cup of tea. To thin, to weak, components don’t build confidence, customer service was not that great considering I did exactly what they said and inserts kept coming off. They essentially said sorry bro.
HOW DARE YOU GO AGAINST HEAVY ARROW BUILDING !!!!!!
more over priced Chinese junk arrows