Nio's losses spiral out of control, increase by 260% & show no signs of slowing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มี.ค. 2023
- Nio's losses spiral out of control, increase by 260% & show no signs of slowing
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the reason their margins are so low now is because they dumped all their 1.0 platform cars because they had to get rid of them before they could start selling the new models. So they took a huge loss with their early models. Their new models coming out will be much more profitable.
Of course
Reaching critical cope levels over here
I gave you a thumbs up and I have no idea if you’re right.
Why, you say it is more profitable, who said????
Why, you say it is more profitable, who said????
You're right. They spend too much and debt could get out of hand. However, they have $6.6B cash left. Pretty good cushion right now. Let's see if they can get those ridiculous margins up.
Very nice looking vehicle
Thanks 👍
Most of "range anxiety" is caused by winter issues with battery range loss and resistive heating loads. More efficient thermal comfort and batteries that tolerate greater temperature ranges and can be preconditioned to the correct temperature are key to tackling "range anxiety", not gimmicks like battery swapping.
I love that they are spending this much on product development. This means their products will be awesome.
Sorry but that is NOT a logical conclusion. Simply spending money without examining WHAT the money is spent on... is ridiculous. I've carefully examined NIO's objectives and, sadly (because I actually like their cars) their idea of Swap stations will not work for them. They have spent o lot of time and money in an attempt to convince other EV companies to also take this track. But it hasn't worked. NIO was heavily financially supported by the Chinese Government but that no longer is the case. So, unless they make a huge change of direction in what they are doing, it will be bankruptcy or, more likely, being sold/absorbed by another EV company.
@@johnwilson5743 They could do like every other car manufacturer and sell cars with dealership models and not make any charging infrastructure. This would make them instantly profitable. But this would leave them in a bad position for the future. Better spend money now before evs really take off.
He must have access to a large amount of investors. Saudi Arabia is putting a ton of money into lucid. There's no hope of lucid making it without Saudi Arabia.
Totally agree. In future Nio seems to be the only company who will become global with battery swap stations. Their volume brand codename Alps/firefly will have this major advantage of battery swapping.Also their demand is still strong despite intense price war in China
@@Lucas-wp2ph bullshit. They are wasting money like crazy for a product nobody needs. Once they charge the price for swaps that they would have to charge to make it profitable people will say no thank you. I charge at a charging station.
China lifted COVID restrictions in December, had New Years in late January, and is approximately now at total viral spread. Expect the majority of deaths 8-10 weeks after New Years (roughly now through mid-April) and then they’ll be back to normal.
When that happens, be ready for a massive economic rebound. It’s as if the world’s economic engine has been stalling for 3 years, finally died, and will restart this summer. Going to be epic to watch!
의견 감사합니다. 꼭 그렇게 되기를 희망합니다
Now it's normal here. But some patients got Influenza A virus. But what we concern is the bank in the US now. This might be the prelude like what is in 2008
Do you hold a short position in NIO?
Viking, your whole line of criticism of Tesla competitors in the EV market is flawed and obviously so. Tesla, has a hard earned manufacturing edge and a first mover advantage amongst the EV manufacturers and they are pushing those advantages to the limits making entry into the EV market not for the faint of heart. The bad news for Tesla's competitors is this: either they swallow the full costs that efficient mass manufacturing in the EV market entails (and Tesla has already set that bar) and push production numbers of vehicles rapidly towards half a million cars or more (in order to break even) or they fail miserably. What NIO and all the others have discovered is that competing against Tesla is hard. The pricing of NIO vehicles isn't a mistake it is part and parcel of pushing towards that break even point.
Now, 'spending' in this context is what saves NIO's neck, or NIO's dies trying rather than just lays down and dying, which is what you are implicitly recommending. The spending, admittedly, must be for capex and the most advanced and efficient EV manufacturing capex at that. So, spending, viz. factory production planning and investment, is necessary and unavoidable. That is something that requires supporters with deep pockets and patience as well, supporters that aren't given to fits of nervousness. If you think there is another path to successfully compete in a market in which Tesla is calling the shots you know nothing.
The alternative to competing in the mass market is to go the 'custom' route. Lotus (Geely) appears to going that route but expensive high performance or luxury vehicles will partially depend on the manufacturing revolution happening inside the factories of the successful mass EV manufacturers in any case.
I wait for NIO SwapNGo Stations in the EU. SwapNGo RoRo Stations along the Highway Route du Soleil to go to Spain Costa Blanca Spain. SwapNGo Fast and Furious.☀️☀️☀️
I am making good money and will pay extra for fantastic service. You have a great point. I am very much invested and add in the next 2 months. LT Play and eliminate the noise. Not interested in fast money or ups and downs. I am a conservative CPA. Great view!
At some point Nio may need to think about combining both swapping and charging. In other words swap on one side and plug in chargers on the other. Battery swapping would also work well with the commercial trucking industry. So they may want to consider licensing this technology out. Make their swapping technology the industry standard since they have been able to get it down to between 3 to 5 minutes. With Vinfast entering the U.S. market soon, Nio and BYD need to be making their entrance. They both already have a U.S. presence and have been employing workers for years..
27.5% tariffs on Chinese cars and other protectionist measures have the US market a bit isolated from the progress and price reduction.
They are building an infrastructure. What don’t you understand about that? Battery swap stations are just an option. They are there to provide people with options when driving electric vehicles. Is that something you don’t understand? Rome wasn’t built in a day. I believe the CEOs vision is to have an easy user experience. Also have quality vehicles. Stick to making Tesla videos if you don’t understand what Nio is trying to do.
@@Phil-G1075 I thought you were replying to my comment for a second there. You really don't hear a lot (well I don't) about Nio's regular stand alone charging units. Could you enlightened me?
@@larryevans6739 I'm thinking that in the U.S. market manufacturers want to milk the ICE cow for as long as they can but with Tesla dropping prices they're be running out of excuses and time. Also Biden and the EU Commission President are trying to work out a limited trade deal so European EV's qualify for the Inflation Reduction Act. I'm dying to see how that works out back home. In my area I see a lot of used current model EV's for sale with low mileage. I guess people were buying them and once they get that government refund/rebate check they just sale them.
@@Phil-G1075 i agree but there needs to be some cost discipline or they will be lucky to not go bankrupt.
Wall Street is always myopic, how do companies develop their products without spending money?
Shocking
Battery Swap is NIOs technology and financical (battery lease) advantage over other EV companies. Its not going away. July 2022 they had already done 10 million swaps, I think its getting use.
hope you are right\ i am in huge panic now\ my aver is 57((
battery swapping is one of those things everyone wants and nobody ever gets around to ever using.
@@scottmcshannon6821
So many use it that Hongqi and Rising Auto are jumping on the bandwagon.
@@ciybersal9833 it will fail. we cant even get the companies to agree on a charging standard, a standard location for ports. there is no way we can get a swap station to work for every vendor and every battery pack. its really silly to have a separate swap station for every model/vendor. the logistics will kill it, it wont grow past one vendor with 2 batteries.
If they keep the battery swap operating model then they should look at changing business model to subscription model. But need volume to be successful which they don't have yet
The incompetence and stupidity of both legacy auto and new OEMs on EVs is breathtaking.
I would like a video by you on if anybody else other than BYD and Tesla get it. It seems Ford and Volvo might.
#abml largest LITHIUM deposit found in Reno Nevada usa
Tesla losses were at their worst in 2017/2018, over $2b in 2018, setting up a worldwide company is not cheap. Nio will achieve break even within the next 12 months.
Massively outsourced, with production outsourced to a company partially owned by the Chinese government, is the Nio problem. The people making your cars will not lose their jobs if you fail, will not benefit if you succeed either, they have no incentive to help you make the manufacturing more efficient or lower cost.
This is why I failed to buy Nio stock when it was about $2.00 a share, I didn't see Nio making a profit in the future. I still would have done well to buy the stock, but so far no profits for Nio.
The cooperation between JAC and NIO has been turned into a joint venture about a year ago, when the contract manufacturing was up for renewal. Jianglai Technology is 50/50 owned by Jianghuai (JAC) and Weilai (NIO).
@@leobreevoort9151 and Nio is still paying a penalty for ending production of their current models to switch to their second generation platform models. Worse still, it remains unclear what you own when you buy Nio stock, as lots of Nio is owned by the regional government and the corporate structure is far from straightforward.
I am confident that even if Nio were to become immensely profitable that no Western investor would see a penny of it.
@@tribalypredisposed NIO was saved by the provincial government in 2020. In return, the government (and some strategic investors) got 25% of the shares of NIO China and the company promised to move its headquarters to Hefei. The latter part happened and NIO is now also owner of a new factory in Neopark.
With regards to the government shareholding, over the course of 2021/22 NIO bought back many of the NIO China shares, so what remains is a 4% share by Hefei City. Another 3% or so is still owned by several strategic investment funds, while NIO holds almost 93% of NIO China.
@@leobreevoort9151 okay, that is good, and what do American stock buyers hold? Stock that is not issued by Nio China.
@@tribalypredisposed no, the stock is in NIO Inc, registeren in the Cayman islands. There's an intermediaire level with Hong Kong companis, but NIO Inc indirectly owns the 93% of NIO China.
Remember tesla failed on battery swap in 2014 🤣
They should limit swap stations to China where there likely is a need for the technology. For ROW piggyback on the Tesla charging infrastructure. Maybe test-market a few swap stations in the most densely populated upmarket cities.
The pace of battery chemistry will eventually reduce charge time to that of a fill-up. When that happens swap stations will have no advantage.
And their battery swapping stations are not scaleable to be used by any other car manufacturer…worst ROI on their charging infrastructure.
NIO is a 9 year old company with a better product than Tesla (20 year old company) All the money being spent now is what will propel this company into one of the biggest global EV companies 5-10 years from now. Patience is what is needed if you actually see the big picture 🚀
The only advantage to battery swapping is it makes it easier to replace your battery if something goes wrong or to upgrade to better batteries when they arrive. Otherwise it’s cheaper and easier to charge at home or at motorway service stations. No wonder Nio are in trouble it would have been cheaper to invest in a charging network. They’re going to have to get rid of the swapping stations and Nio Houses and just concentrate on making and selling EVs. And sack their CEO.
Edit: nice looking cars though, apart from the weird bumps on the roof which make them look like taxis.
I've got to agree on the part about getting rid of the Nio houses. They could change them into "new car pickup depots". I see some Hyundai dealerships in my area constructing a wide open space for customers to just chill in. They still appear to have to many sales people doing absolutely nothing. They could just retrofit the battery swap stations by adding high speed chargers on the backside
Agreed, there's a reason why Tesla looked into battery swapping but abandoned it in their early days, it just doesn't make sense, nor does it scale well. At this point the only "advantage" in battery swapping is that it can lower the sticker price if customers opt to pay for a monthly "battery subscription" instead. But IMO if your batteries are low enough quality that I need a battery subscription and need to swap it out every so many years then I probably don't want to buy EV's from you, because you probably aren't very good at it.
I’ve got a battery drill for sale here. It only comes with one battery and you can’t take it out so after using it for a little while to do your work you have to stop and stick it on charge.
I’m looking to buy one of those new fangled drills where you can swap the dead battery out for a fully charged one and carry on working whilst the dead one charges. Apparently you can also buy new batteries to replace the old ones when they inevitably lose power. Not sure if the idea will ever catch on but I’m willing to try it out as it seems to make sense to me.
Does anybody think I’m just a daft English bloke or what ?
@@saimonarnet5015 I think you’re quite sensible. 😃
GOOF!
It's interesting that they have been so focused on the battery swap technology as a value proposition. I suppose to give them a clear identify. But you are correct, is a battery swap actually that big a deal over charging at home or at one of the very large number of rapids.
I personally don't see what the advantages are, it seems a rather dated idea to me.
But, as a complimentary tech? I think wireless charging has more value.
Overall I really like the cars, but for me it's 50/50 if they survive going forward
Spot on. I like your take on it
The fact that you cannot come up with any advantages is sad. What do you think of the following advantages for battery swap:
- you always have an up to date battery
- MOST IMPORTANT: since battery is detached from the car your car will depreciate significantly less
- buying a car with BAAS saves arond 10k in purchase of the car
- you can temporary switch from battery with normal range to extra long rang when going on holiday
- swapping only takes 3 min with the latest swapping station version
- you can also charge the car normally at your house like a normal EV
- when autonomous driving lvl 5 is here you can order your nio car to swap the battery in the middle of the night, so you have a full battery in the morning withing stepping out of bed
- swapping stations can balance energy grits
Wireless charging is not effienct, since alot of energy is wasted.
@@schouten841 the latest wireless charging tech is 95% + efficient and there are a number of use cases where that is ideal right now. But I don't really see the others you list as real advantages.
I have a short range battery now, and a longer range one would be nice on occasion but not enough for me to pay for the battery swapping service. That's not going to be a free utility.
I don't see how multiple swaps will mean my car depreciates less as there are mechanisms involved and they add to the stresses that a car goes through.
Even the swapping over night is kind of interesting but not really. 75% of people have a drive, then add the park and ride charging, workplace charging, weekly shop charging. Is there a big enough market for this?
Fully autonomous cars/taxis are years and years away yet. And wireless charging tech would be a cheaper solution as there would be no need to deal with multi OEM proprietary battery packs that swapping needs to be usable.
@@patrickjr11 How can you say that depreciation is not a game changer when having swappable batteries?? The most expensive and most important part of an EV is the battery! The car itself has almost no moving parts, especially compared to an ICE vehicle. Remember the guy who had to replace his Tesla battery, which would cost him 20k +. Its a fixed anchor on such a car. Changing a battery in 3 minutes is also one of the biggest advantages. I can't get over the fact that you just refute these two arguments.
Your saying that '75% of people have a drive'. I assume you are not talking about a drive way at their home right? Because maybe in the US, but not in normal countries. What do you think of populated cities in which people do not have a own parking space/drive way. Swapping is one of the best solution for heavy populated cities.
Also, you can still buy the battery from NIO, so you do not get BAAS. If the battery needs to be replaced its much much cheaper compared to an EV that has a fixed battery.
Who doesn't like options? No one says you have to swap the battery. You can still charge the old fashioned way.
Battery swap makes perfect sense.
For the time, which is most of the time, you rent a cheaper, short range Sodium battery.
And when you really need the range you rent the more expensive Lithium battery.
This reduces cost of ownership and the demand for Lithium. Which in turn reduces costs even further.
The irony is the Elon Musk demonstrated this and the Chinese built it.
I can only say - Tesla did it right -
Good charging stations, and consentation on how to build high tech and great car, and most "in house" 👍
Losses means a great target for legacy auto to buy…perhaps Japanese carmaker is waiting this moment for a buying spree
Yeah, why the hell did they build a nio park. If a tiny amount of cars are coming out. Slap to the face
I don't know, on one side western automakers are supposed to be afraid of an upcoming Chinese invasion, on the other, the Chinese appear to be on their last leg, betting the farm and risk going bankrupt before making a profit. So which is it?
Margins on cars are really low and one of the reasons you don’t see other companies spending huge amounts on swapping stations and fancy chill locations. This company will be gone in 2 years, their financials simply make no sense and it’s basically a Potemkin operation.
Are the nio battery swap centers making a profit or not? Do their swap centers always have a swap unit 100% charged and ready for you when you drive in? Anything less will break the business value proposition…
Nio positives, good name, good looking cars, battery swap. Negatives not producing or selling enough vehicles. Not owning manufacturing means they know how and relying on others. Bankrupt most likely..
I lost $1,200 on NIO.
NIO keeps investing as there are no limit on funds, until they run out and close.
Test
Tesla Viking, You put in a lot of facts with mixed in your views & opinions. Talking about not selling enough vehicles to cover their expenditures is the question.. In one week of insurance registrations in China The Tesla model 3 with it's price cuts registrations were 3100. The NIO ET5 was 2100. 2 new models that should keep deliveries up are the ET5 shooting brake version coming up and the ES6 with a single motor option should definitely bridge the gap to profitability.. Retooling a factory with equipment from NT1.0 to NT2.0 is expensive and explains the Q4 reduction in margins.. Profitability is expected next year..
Nio is actually doing rather well. You are right, sales are rising. In future Spending like this will pay off dividents with Alps/Firefly ready to take off with swap stations in place..
@Zigest It doesn't really matter because he did throw in his list of facts bundled in an anti NIO narrative. He has always made it clear that Tesla is the only EV company that he will speak very highly of..
THANKS VIKING,KEEP UP ⬆️ THE GOOD WORK 🙏PRAYING THAT YOUR WIFE CONTINUES TO GET BETTER 💚💚💚
I appreciate it
Nil is making all the mistakes Tesla avoided. Battery swap? So 2012… deemed too expensive, too complex and too fault prone… if you don’t believe me, ask a technician at Kone how many timing outdoor escalators and lifts fail. LiDAR…. Too expensive and adds an extra layer of code your don’t need. Nio is never going to make money of their FSD. The Nio CEO has a hole in his hand… wasting it on pet projects that have no value to the actual car. Sam isn’t a Tesla fanboy, he talks highly of BYD and I saw him rave about the MG4 today at Fully Charged.
Yes two much spending is not good, but same time they know what day are doing, investing in the core tex, to be self sufficient.
Yeah nio's not a fool brah heifei govt backs the company. 🤣
Battery lease is what Vinfast, the Vietnamese EV, does.
Ice cars killer
NIO will be the true leader in the Global EV market. Some of these TH-camrs are paid to downgrade certain companies.
Personally, on a long trip I'd prefer to charge rather than battery swap. Charging is just a matter of plugging in the car and then going for a break, whereas battery swapping involves hanging around waiting for the swap and *then* going for a break. Ironically it wastes time! And there is more potential for queuing.
This argument is the equivalent of saying I do not want a nice and finished house, because then I am not forced to do something about it and otherwise I am just going to play games on my pc.
Dude, you can still take a break even though the battery is swapped within 3 minutes with the latest battery swap version.
Not an argument. You swap for a smaller battery for most of the year when you drive only about 40 km a day...and before you go on a long trip you swap for a larger one.
Also: you don't have to hang around af all. Car drives in automatically and can park after the swap automatically.
I used to own Nio stock, but the more I learned about Tesla, and the more I thought about how much faster charging is getting, together with more efficiency of batteries the more sure I became that NIO was a much vores investment so I sold and bought more Tesla stocks. Just My 2 cents.
@@MrAlanfalk73 I am pretty sure you're good with both. You have to understand how Chinese people operate. They first build the infrastructure - which doesn't necessarily have to generate profits. But when the real thing starts to happen they are going huge. Tesla is that good because it partially adopted the Chinese thinking. But you say you sold Nio and then bought Tesla? Not good to sell Nio when it is at low as it is now. Buy low, sell high. NOT: sell low, buy high. 😉
@@currentbender well I bought Tesla cheep too for the money, gave between 102 - 105 for those, so it worked out. But I agree with the sentiment 👍
I'm not surprised, they have no factories. The more you outsource, the more middlemen, the more the costs mount.
Sad to see *Tesla* win all the marbles but... *Tesla* _is_ winning; through innovation and hard work in fabrication, sourcing of raw materiel, design of the power train, and all of the rest.
Wen Jesus car?
The whole Nio "lifestyle" stuff was an expensive waste, and the charging system apparently isn't THAT much of a selling point. Glad you dumped stock.
Great, swap out your new battery for someone else's old battery. A battery that may have been abused and lifetime shortened. I'd rather just keep the battery I bought with the car and charge it. With Tesla's fast superchargers wait time is small.
That’s why you lease the battery. And if you have a new battery that you buy, just charge it at home. Don’t swap it. Options are all yours.
Here we go again . We have a company trying to be a( tesla). with probably pirated drawings from tesla making a bigger noise about being better ,and with no money,how can they still operate.
Imagine being the CEO of a company and your criticism for your competition is. The only thing they do well is operate a business . Even if that statement was 100% complete that still isn't a negative. "Our competition sells more vehicles than us in more markets and makes money, what idiots.🤣. Even if you hate Tesla that is an objective fact.
Yeah you’re too into Tesla.
😂Seems like a disaster of a company to invest any money in!! Sure glad I never did!
You really don't know Nio. I have no idea where to start, but I suggest you stick to Tesla since you are pro Tesla and anti Nio. It is too obvious
Sounds like the cost of trying to copy Tesla is costing them more than the typical US corporation... oops! Run Tesla Run!
NIO is currently building two new car factories, a battery swapping network in Europe, a battery production base, and an in-house battery R&D team of 400 people. It's also developing two cheaper car brands, one specifically for Europe, and one for China. All these investments cost money, but thankfully, NIO's backer has the authority to print money.
Nissan Stock is now classified as junk and so is their spokeswoman Brie Larson! lmao
Zombie company that needs the government to survive lol 😂
Charging Lines. Its not the Charge Time. Its the Waiting Time in Line to Charge. NIO SwapNGo Stations is the Only Solution. I wait for NIO SwapNGo Stations in the EU.
I've had my EV for 5 years.. there was only once in the 5 years, I've had to wait to get a supercharger spot.. it was less than 5 minutes of waiting. And yes, I supercharge multiple times EVERY week. I drive long distance to work. I supercharge on average, 4 times a week. Sometimes as much as 6 if I'm going on longer trips. Waiting is a myth unless you live in California. And they are still building super charging stations faster than NIO ever likely will build swap stations. Good luck buying into a likely failing eco system.
The EV Industry Bubble Is About To POP. The economy is heading for a Recession, a real bad one and these EV startups are going to fail.
I think NIO will be combined with XPeng by edict of the CCP.
The Chinese govt. will then bale out and then own the combined company. That is a best guess.
Another person on TH-cam who has no idea how to grow a company. Go and looks at what tesla went through
Tesla 3 is already a veteran car almost 7 years old
7 years try again.I believe it’s closer to 5 years. I could be wrong as my kids love to point out.
@@vec306
Model S since 2009. That is a dinasour. Model 3 and Y look so dated and ugly compared to new metal from China.
@@ciybersal9833 Don't judge a book by it's cover.
Go to sleep your a Pro Tesla and thats all
once stock goes up to where it was most pro tesla share holders will be millionaires
Like NIO all you want. Going bankrupt is a real thing and has nothing to do with Tesla.
Smaller banks around the world are beginning to fail as the world economy slips towards recession. How long will it be before NIO’s lenders say “enough”??
@@AlistairBalister
And once they are they will buy cars such as Maybachs, Ferraris, Bentley's even future Hongqi's and premium Yangwangs U8/U9 as they know deep down inside Tesla's are not luxury cars, juts computer on wheels w poor built.
Liar, most of NIO's customers change batteries. In fact after 5 years the car is new while your Tesla with an old battery and a significant decrease in value
I disagree with Viking a lot but I don't believe he is lier. Yes he is a Tesla boy and clearly he is bias, but he does not hide a fact that he invested money in to Tesla. Initially when EVs started becoming popular I was pro battery swapping but now that 800 volt systems can charge 250 miles in 15 min, I would not invest in to that technology. I am convinced that changing will get faster and it's a lot more convenient / economical to build charging stations vs battery swapping stations.
The most important part of this story is that most companies that make EV are loosing money. That will not last forever and I believe many of these companies will go out of business. Just think how many cellphone companies didn't make it.
@@MyUtubeScott And even better when “plug and charge” is standard for every charger.
This is a very good point actually, a 7 year old nio car has been through many battery upgrades. Nio needs a cheaper car immediately though
And you think NIO don't decrease in value? A newer battery doesn't make it immune to depreciation. Tesla cars don't lose that much range after 5 years. Tesla decreases in value for other reasons, they are constantly improving manufacturing efficiency and hardware updates that they could drop prices without affecting the overall margins. That is a win for consumers.. Battery swapping stations will never be cheaper to build out than charging stations that cost will add pressure on NIO.
Are we sure that swapping batteries ensures that we always have newer batteries. Surely we can also end up with an older battery being swapped in?