"Big Broadhead Battle"--Round 1: Light Heavyweight Single Bevels (200 gr)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2017
- This is Round One of the Heavy Hitter Broadhead Battle: Light Heavyweights. See how these top rated 200 grain heads perform in a head to head durability test. Aboyer vs Bishop Bridgeport vs Grizzly Stick vs Cutthroat.
Please consider donating to my Channel so I can do more testing. The link is on my home page graphic. It is www.paypal.me/luskarcheryadventure - กีฬา
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This has become my favorite channel. Great great vids. Thank you brothee.
Well thank you so much! The more views I get, the bigger my hunting fund gets, so i can do more broadhead testing :) I really appreciate it.
You are AWSOME!
Great job!
Thanks for the work!
Thank you Kim...I really appreciate your comments and encouragement and views :)
Great video. Helped me decide which to buy for this season. Went with the Cutthroat.
Those are fantastic heads...especially for the price. Thanks for watching and commenting, brother!
Hey thanks a bunch for doing the review! Lots of people talk about how Grizzlystik hardens their heads too much, but nobody has shown them fail.
Thanks for watching Joshua. I'm sure many of them will do fine...but in that once in a lifetime hunt, I'd prefer a different head, personally. I do appreciate you watching and commenting.
Will be testing these in June. Heading to Namibia for a plains game hunt and will be using the Cutthroat 200 grain single bevel blades. This video played a part in my decision to go with the Cutthroat.
Thanks for watching and commenting, Bushwacker. Yeah, I was impressed with the Cutthroat, especially for the price. What a blast to go to Namibia! Have a blast--and make sure you aim further forward than you do on N American game :) Good luck!
Good! Thank you!
Thank you Matthew.
@@LuskArcheryAdventures
Would you please do another broadHead battle? This will be different with others.
This will compare the light weight broadHead with the heavy broadHead.
Both broadHeads should have the same diameter/the same style (single Bevel), come from the same manufacturer, but have different weight.
For example,
Two PVC broadHeads:
1) the light one:
2-Blade 150 Grain - 1 1/8" Non-Vented CTS (Carbon Tool Steel) Single Bevel (RB)
2) the heavy one:
2-Blade 200 Grain - 1 1/8" Non-Vented CTS (Carbon Tool Steel) Single Bevel (RB)
I wish I could know which one works better for larger game(brown bear)?
Would you do this battle?
Thank you very much.
good video
Thank you Dave. Much appreciated.
I would love to see you do a test on the
Valkarie Arrow System250
Yeah, that would be nice. The funds are a bit limited right now, but maybe in the future. Thank you for watching and commenting. I hope you can check out all my vids and sub :)
Lusk Archery Adventures I can help you out with that. I know this is an old clip but if you’re still interested to do a Valkyrie test. Lmk 👍🏼
Would love to see you do a test shooting these same three heads out to about 70 yards. Will probably be buying the Cutthroat due to the price. Thanks
Thanks for watching. I should do a long range test on them at some point. The challenge with shooting good single bevels into a target is getting them out--it's extremely difficult due to the rotation.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that after watching your videos. I went ahead and ordered a three pack of the Cutthroat Single Bevel RH in 200 grain. I will probably get a pile of sand and set a paper target up in front of it and shoot through that into the sand. I figure I can use one for target practice and before hunting with it, I can send it back in and have them sharpen it.
Yes, a sand pile or dirt pile is a great idea. I am guessing they will fly well, if you're arrows are spined correctly and your bow is in tune. Let me know how it goes. Good luck!
I know this vid is 3+ yrs old, but the results are still very valuable. Thank you so much for spending the time, effort, and finances for such public benefit!
You concluded the Bishop had penetrated more than the Cutthroat in the final penetration test. Your conclusion seemed to be based on the Bishop penetrating to the base of it's blades. However, I wonder if the Cutthroat actually penetrated deeper...
While the Bishop did penetrate to the base of it's blades where the Cutthroat did not, the Cutthroat is appreciably longer (greater length from tip to base of it's blades). This would have required greater penetration depth to get from the Cutthroat's tip to the base of it's blades like with the Bishops. That said, without actually measuring blade exposure on the backside of the medium, it is difficult to conclude accurately.
I ultimately chose Cutthroats, but the Bishops would be a solid 2nd choice. Again, thank you!
That's a great question. Sorry, I don't remember enough to be able to answer your questions. But I think I was accurate. The Cutthroat was longer, and thus penetrated more than the difference in the arrows showed, but not enough to make up for the amount the Bishop penetrated. Plus, the Bishop thus got more of its maximum diameter cut thru more tissue.
i wonder why my ashbys aint never had no edge chatter on all the deer ribs and leg bones ive busted through? i love your testing and i have learned alot from watching but i cant eat steel plates,plywood or cinder blocks lol, thanx for the info no eel will intended.,.
Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but it certainly can happen. Lots of pressure on that leading edge and if it's bevel is too thin or the steel too soft or too brittle--problem.
Would love to see a video comparing single bevel VPA, Cutthroat, Iron Will, and Bone broadheads in the 200grain! I think on your site you seemed to laud the VPAs more than any, but just curious!
That would be a good test. But Bone hasn’t made heads for a while now, at least last time I spoke with them. If someone sends me those heads to test, I’ll do it
Mr. Lusk is there any way you could test the New Evolution Wide Series, Single Bevel 200 Grain Broadhead, whether or not you can, I want to let you know, you are my go to Guy for all Broadhead Testing, Thanks
Thank you. They are supposed to be sending me some to test. I am eager to.
In defense of the grizzly I have used them for the past 6 years and have never had a problem with them. It’s also worth noting that when you look at the arrow shafts after you have shot them into the plywood the grizzly is the only 1 with a substantially different angle. Which would most likely be due to a torqued shot which drastically would affect how the energy of the arrow is transferred into the broad head on impact.
Well, thanks for watching and commenting.
I agree, if you haven't tuned your arrows correctly for the broadhead it wont revover from paradox the same. I do believe the angle contributed to the head breaking off.
There’s no real life situation where concrete would be a factory unless you’re shooting at a target in your driveway lol anyone of these broadheads are tuff enough to take any game animal on the planet , Im more interest In edge retention that’s really the only thing that matters bone isn’t even a factor for any of these heads
Thanks for the video! Do you have a single bevel recommendation in the 125 grain range? I want a head that I can shoot out of a compound and my recurve (71 lb @ 30"). Also, people really need to stop whining about the sound...it's not that bad and the information is worth it. Thanks again.
Thank you Jon. This was one of my earlier vids. I got a new camera last year and a new mic earlier this year--they're really pricey! If you're wanting a single bevel there are some excellent new choices: Crafted Archery Aero One, A2, Kayuga Gen Pilot, and Cutthroat are all fantastic.
Can these be used with crossbows in the 350 to 380 fps range ? Thanks in advance
Yes indeed, John. The Bishop Scientific Method has the world record of the longest crossbow shot with a broadhead, popping a balloon at 326 yards! The 500 and 600 grain Bishop Heads have been shot out to well over 200 yards.
did you break any arrows doing this? what arrows did you use and what was your arrow insert and outsert?
These were Easton Hexx arrows with an aluminum arrow glued over the end of the shaft as a footer.
Can these heads be used with crossbows ?
Thanks for watching John, and for asking this question. Absolutely. They are extremely effective with crossbows and have been accurately shot out to over 200 yards through them.
Great video, thanks for doing the testing. No doubt the overall testing has improved greatly since the 6 years or so that have elapsed since LuskArchery started this channel.
In an effort to help out future viewers, I'll offer a few of my observations / opinions for folks that come across this in the future who may not yet had time to read Ashby's work or use this type of BH and "go to school" on single bevel Broadhead design.
1) One commenter asked why the Abowyer BH was left out of the conclusion. This was apparently due to an inventory mix-up during testing that resulted in the "200 grain" Abowyer BH not being tested on all media and apparently being left out of the conclusion. (See text box that the author added to the video).
2) All tested BH's are called "200 grain" weight, but I believe it is unknown which exact BH models are tested in ea. case. My Abowyer "Brown Bear" BH's weigh 175 gr w/o the adapter and 210 -215 with the "long aluminum adapters". I don't think they offered a "200 grain head" 6 yrs ago.. I suspect the Abowyer in the test was a "Brown Bear". If so, it doesn't weigh "200 grains". Weight matters as far as penetration goes.
3) related to #2, it would be good to have confirmation on which BH's have a machined screw in portion as part of the BH ( the voice over often simply states "machined BH" but does not specifically address the screw in portion). This is an important question because WRT the tested Grizzly Stick BH that "failed" the plywood test when it broke on the threaded portion, it is not clear to me if the threaded portion was integral to the BH or if it was a glue-in aluminum adapter. FWIW, Abowyer now offers the Brown Bear BH in a totally machined configuration (including the threaded portion) but the "integral threaded design" weighs 250 grains vs. the traditional glue on weighing 175 grains. (I don't intend to "promote" the Abowyer here, it is simply that I am more familiar with that line of BH's.).
4) Based on the Grizzly Stick post-shot arrow shaft angle in the Plywood barrier, it appears as if that arrow may not have been tuned well, or the shot may have been "torqued" resulting in a sub-optimal impact angle. If so, this may have caused the breakage on the threaded portion of the BH.
The "adapter" (whether integral machined steel or glued in) still should not have broken, but it would appear that the test criteria may have differed for that particular BH due to a bad shot. Better to run tests with at least 3 examples of the tested product...
I am not debating the belief held by some that the Grizzly Stick BH's constructed at that time had a tendency to fail.
5) In these tests, the Bishop clearly penetrated the least (as would be expected given the short stubby design), so I am surprised that it was held in such high esteem vs. the other contender.. This may have been due to a belief that it rotated more in certain tested impacts. However, as noted below, I think the perspective on rotation is misunderstood. I am NOT saying it is not an excellent BH. I AM puzzled by the conclusion based on the test criteria.
6) The statement that 3 of the BH's have the Ashby recommended 3:1 ratio is incorrect - they fall short. This is a material fact as far as penetration goes. There are 3:1 ratio BH's out there and the difference in wedge angle between the true 3.0:1.0 BH's and those tested is visually material. (typically the 3.0:1.0 ratio BH's have a narrower max width of 1.0 inches and that will also enhance penetration).
7) IMO, the benefit of the rotation and "S" cut is misunderstood. I believe that it is a "side-effect" of the bone chisel design. According to Ashby, the single bevel design was adopted from medical instruments designed to split bone.
The objective is to split bone and by doing so, enhance penetration.
I'll also concede that I am more interested in an exit wound than I am in "additional tissue being cut" whether by additional blades or by some (relatively minor) increased wound length by virtue of spinning. I believe that a hole through the heart or both lungs, liver, main arteries, etc., is normally going to kill promptly whether it is done with 2 blades or 4 blades and whether or not the cut has 10% (?) extra length due to rotation. The exception is with a gut shot animal where it has been shown that the tissue damage via the single bevel design might be dramatically greater than with a double bevel design and therefore might lead to an animal bedding sooner and having more trouble rising from its bed. So far, I've never gut shot an animal, so based on my experience I don't manage my equipment against that criteria. I have hit elk scapula several times and I have failed to obtain exit wounds twice without scapula hits...(all of those happened without single bevel BH's and the hits go back 30 years when equipment was not as good). In MY case, my number one criteria is based on an assumption of a Thoracic cavity hit, seeking an exit wound and blood trail even if I hit scapula or significant other bone...... Bottom line, I want an exit wound and a blood trail....
A longer, more gradual wedge (3.0:1.0 ratio recommended) has better mechanical advantage and splits bone more effectively and penetrates better (at a given weight) than a blunt wedge (i.e., the Bishop).
Additionally, IMO, the rotating wound channel is a side effect and likely has minimal benefit as far as soft tissue wound channel and lethality goes, absent a gut shot.
Thus, IMO, the goal is Not to "spin the most" but rather to impart a splitting force with sufficient mechanical leverage to cause heavy bone to split in a living animal and enable deep penetration after splitting the bone.....(i.e., penetrate heavy bone like an elk shoulder blade or a Water Buffalo's ribs...). In heavy bone, this is best achieved with longer thinner BH's. The blade thickness likely need to meet a minimum threshold as well, otherwise the ramp is simply a cutting edge and not a wedge. It seems that most heavy single bevel BH's have a blade thickness around 50 thousands of an inch.
8) I find that Four 2-inch blazer vanes with good offset stabilize my 630 grain arrows built on 5mm FMJ's with 210 grain Abowyer Brown Bear BH's (with long aluminum inserts) just fine at long distance. The good accuracy and stability I achieve when shot from my Hoyt compound bow might be due to the heavy weight and low velocity of the arrows. Maybe the somewhat higher FOC helps those small vanes perform. Thus, the theory that the Bishop is "better" because it "should" stabilize better at long range due to its "lower surface area" might be true - but it is untested conjecture.
9) Any of the 3 best BH's in this test should outperform lighter weight double bevel BH's on an unplanned "bone impact hit" on a large animal like an elk.
However, based on expectations as well as the actual testing in this video, the longer BH's with a better ramp angle should out-perform the Bishop if impacting heavy bone in an Elk.
Based on the actual testing criteria in this video, it appears to me that of the 3 BH's that maintained structural integrity, the Bishop was in 3rd place. They are probably all great BH's, but based on the testing in this video, I am puzzled that the Bishop was deemed "best".
Nonetheless, the Bishop would probably do just fine in non-dangerous game and achieve MY goal of blowing through the inadvertent elk scapula hit.... But the other two BH's will likely do it more reliably, provided that they are equally well tuned and responsibly accurate.
Thanks for sharing all that :)
Thanks for test - the shorter Bishop had less mechanical advantage and less penetration on wood (bone?) - physics.
Well, not exactly. The narrower part of the longer heads penetrated more deeply, but the total width of the Bishop penetrated more deeply than the total width of the other heads. And the Bishop did that while rotating more than the others. The friction of the longer heads impeded penetration of the widest part of the head and that also prevented rotation. Physics. :)
that depends very much on the medium penetrated@@LuskArcheryAdventures
What would you recommend that’s a single bevel for crossbow to hunt buffalo to elephant?
The best of the best is the Bishop Scientific Method. Other great options are Iron Will and Kayuga Gen 2 Pilot Cut. Check out my two vids from last year about my Cape Buffalo Arrow Build and Black Death Bowhunt.
just wondering what arrows are you using. And also how would you read a typical arrow chart when the head is 200 grain. thanks
Thank you so much for watching! And great question. I was using an Easton 330 Hexx arrow with a 7" aluminum shaft as the footer. You really can't read the arrow charts for heavier heads...and if you do extrapolate them out, they often are not accurate for those heavy heads. Many companies sell these heads individually, so you can test out how that particular head flies out of your bow with your arrow, before you invest in more. I have been amazed how well even a 600 grain arrow flies with a .330 shaft!
thanks for the swift reply
Great test I loved it! If you would.... could you please tell me what arrow you are using? They sure do seem to hold up well.
Thanks Greg. I appreciate you watching and commenting. I am using an Easton Hex 330 with a 5" aluminum shaft footer over the end of it. The lighter shafts and higher FOC make for an extremely tough head...and those footers make them almost indestructible. Hope you can check out all my other vids here on my channel and sub :)
Between the cutthroat single bevel and vpa 2 blade single bevel what would you go with for a traditional bow ? I’ve used the cutthroat last week on my first trad deer and I wanted to get more but they are not in stock in right bevel 150s with the tool steel …. But I saw the vpa single and they looked to be a viable option
The VPA tested VERY well. Have you seen my vid test of it?
@@LuskArcheryAdventures yes I have they looked great … just both the cutthroat and vpa look to work good
What arrow spine and draw weight for these arrows ?
Man, I'm sorry, but I don't remember. This vid was like 4 years ago.
What about VPA broadheads been using them for 7 years and never had any issues. 250 grn I shot them out of compound and trad bows. The farthest kill was at 41 yards and still got a pass through , I shoot both types of bows instinctively with fingers. lm no Tim Wells but those vpa broadheads will group with my field points.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate it. And I agree, VPAs are excellent heads! Great choice.
bearded archery voa makes cut throats hope that helps
Vpa isn't a single bevel
What? Not a word about that beast sticking straight into that cinder block? That's plenty tough to split a pig's shield.
Impressive, right?
@@LuskArcheryAdventures That final illustration was a significant factor in my purchase decision (Cutthroat)
Have you ever shot the badger broadhead?
I have not, but I'd like to at some point.
I’m am new to archery, are two blade broadheads better for taking down a deer with a recurve than the four blade ? Ty
Double lung punctures achieve unconsciousness faster than arterial blood loss alone. Angles of attack are less crucial with bone splitting penetration. Most StoneAge,Bronze age and Iron age arrowheads are two edged and heavy.
There are so many factors that go into that.
Love my grizzlystik samurai in 440c and my cutthroat wanted a bishop but the price is ridiculous even with the slight improvement in spin given I won’t notice a difference in hunting game how anyone pays over $100 a head is crazy to me when the cutthroats are $40 a head in S7 and even cheaper in their other tool steel which works just as good. The grizzly stiicks go from $35 a head to like $18 a head and is a quality head I wouldn’t shoot concrete with them though or inch thick pieces of wood.
Yeah, Bishop heads are a niche market, for those who have very thick wallets and want the very best. For many people, they may not be "worth" the difference in price...but for others, the difference in price is small compared to their budgets :)
@@LuskArcheryAdventures yeah if I was very wealthy I’d probably own some.
Hi buddy. Thanks for the videos. I'm going to hunt a giraffe in August 2018. I'm shooting a Hoyt Nitrum Turbo at 28.5" with Easton DG 250. I still have to sort out my broadheads. thinking of either the 180 gr silverflames from Grizzly or the VPA's.
PS... please do something to your audio!! Its really frustrating not to hear the report properly
Thanks for watching and commenting. Sorry about the audio. I'm trying to get better at the editing. The Giraffe hunt should be a blast! Those are both great choices that will get the job done. If I were spending that much on a hunt for really big animals, I'd use a Bishop or at least the Bishop Bridgeport, Scientific Method--with whatever weight you need. That single bevel will make a difference if you strike a bone. Good luck on the hunt!
Good comparison, but please fix your mic
Sounds like a 1930s radio show. 😂
Yeah I have upgraded my microphone many times since Those are early videos
VPA?
I’ve tested them since this old vid
Hi, interesting, which model of Grizzly is the one used?
Hey Paolo. I'm sorry, but I made this vid about 3 yrs ago, and I can't remember.
@@LuskArcheryAdventures Thanks, that explains, Grizzly do not have that model for sale anymore, couldn't find it on their website. Thanks again.
I love your videos but the sound is very bad. And the higher the volume the more it hurts my ears. Again love the videos though.
I know it. I'm so sorry. Those vids were from a while ago. I've since improved my system so the newer vids are better. Thank you for the feedback and for your support; much appreciated.
The grizzly stick Broadheads R Junk, I’ve had similar problems and since moved on to other heads
Well, I'm sure they've worked well for some folks, but they won't make it into my quiver. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Try the Badger head.
Thanks Don. They're pretty cool heads. I'd like to experiment with them someday.
SOUNDS LIKE YOUR USEING MARINE GRADE PLYWOOD .
Well, this was several years ago, when I first started my broadhead testing. I've upgraded my testing process considerably since then. But yeah, whatever type of plywood that was, it was incredibly tough.
Great video, horrible audio. Every time you use any word with an "s" in it, it hurts my ears. But thank you for showing this test.
Thank you so much for watching and also commenting. I really appreciate the feedback. I agree. Geeze. I am trying to get better with the audio editing. So sorry. Hope you can check out my other vids as well, sir. :)
I know this is a long time ago but why didn't you continue with the abowyer I'm researching and the abowyer are a good 40-50 dollars cheaper are they good??
Man, I'm sorry; i really don't remember. This was one of my first vids.
In answer to your question, In the video the author posted subtitle text indicating that the test was incomplete on the Abowyer because he got the Abowyer head mixed up with a heavier Abowyer head and I believe at the time it was his intention to run the "200 grain" Abowyer test later. I use Abowyers and they work fine for me.
A lot of time has passed since this "test" was completed. I am grateful for the test but like usual it opens more questions than answers. The thing about TH-cam and the internet is that this stuff seems to hang around forever. I suspect that LuskArchery has improved its methods considerably over the last 6 years - so I'll say it again, I am grateful for the time and effort he put into this as one of his earlier works. Thank you again.
Quick comment on the conclusion - I do not believe this series of test was conducted with a stated objective in mind. Certainly the objective was not to kill plywood and such. Probably the objective was to assess structural integrity and potential penetration on some species of larger game. It is my assessment that of the 3 that maintained structural integrity, the Bishop quite obviously performed the worst so I find it curious that it was named the best - possibly based on an untested theory that its arrow flight would be better due to the shorter overall length. But that is a theory only, while in the actual testing it clearly was in 3rd place.
@@jimrice4699 thanks for the response I agree with you the abowyer are nice fly let good too
Well stainless steel is softer than carbon steel
Well...it depends on how it is treated. Stainless steel can be much harder than carbon steel...but it becomes more brittle when it's hardened too much. Carbon steel resists impact much better.
Stainless steel is too brittle for a broadhead, and as you showed they tend to break at ferule.
Well, it can be...but it depends on the hardening process that is used. When it is over hardened, it can become really brittle, as you mentioned.
$400 for 3 broadheads? No thanks, Bishop. I will stick with my Kudu
Yeah, just like bows, cars, homes, etc--different budgets for everyone. I'm just comparing the heads themselves, not the price tags.
Looks like Canelo Alvarez has competition 😂
Well, not sure what that means, but thanks for watching and commenting :)
Audio box and my ears yucked up
Yeah, I've improved my audio since these early days.
Way to many great broad heads then dealing with these. These are all underperforming compared to more “modern” heads.
Well these perform well for what they are. For bone breaching on a huge animal like Cape Buffalo, these can't be beat.
@@LuskArcheryAdventures I think so many people are convinced of a product's performance when conditions are ideal - not when 'bad' things happen. Your test, I suspect, was intended to illustrate what the broadhead's performance can be (testing emphasis being penetration performance) in the worst of situations. If there is a need to be able to smash through bones, the broadhead that can penetrate through to the vitals is the winner. Period. Flesh wounds bleed alot, but are not necessarily fatal.
Your "S" sounds are very annoying. You need a mic muffle or something. Too hard to listen to and background nouse is annoying
Sibilance, I think is the term. Yeah it is hard to unhear once you hear it
Yes, I'm sorry. This was one of my earlier vids. I now have much better equipment...which gets really expensive. The new vids are a lot better. Thanks for the feedback.