THE HEARTBREAKER 2022 HONDA CRF450R DYNO RUN = ONLY 50 RWHP!?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2021
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Junior killing it! "Ill tell you what doesn't need flashed, the 20 other Cr500's" GOTTEM
your the dad everyone wanted and didnt get. you are the 2 stroke god, you really are.
I've been working on bikes since I first found one in 1996. Jeff knows what he is doing. His 650 build was amazing. Shows what a pro can do to a stock machine.
That explosive and short powerband of the 2-stroke will get blown away by the 4-stroke on the track. Above 40 horsepower, the 4-stroke spans 4,000 rpm where the 2-stroke is only 2,000. Getting the power to the ground is where it's at.
Sure but you can adjust squish and head to counter that, it’s all rider once your in the power your in it stay in it and learn to ride it faster, 2 stokes are power valved too so you can adjust where your power band hits and make it smoother for the rider. There not short and explosive like you say there’s a pretty wide range to ride in, there just not as comfortable to ride in it
the 4 strokes also have alot more weight over the rear wheel. they grip like crazy, i have an rmz450 and an rm250 2 stroke. the 2 stroke has better tires and it just spins everywhere you have to lean back crazy or it just does burnouts and drifts. while the 450 just bites even with shitty tires. i love 2 strokes and ill ride a 2 stroke over a 4 stroke any day of the week. but i can see the advantages of the 4 strokes.
But 2 strokes rev range feels like it’s twice as ling rpm to rpm than 4 strokes. So even though a 500 tops out at like 7,000 or so RPMs, it feels and rides just like the whole 11,000RPM rev range that a 450 has.
Not all 500 have a power valve. But would u rather have 1000 rpm range of power or 5000? If u look at the end of the video. They dynoed thr 500 right before the 450 it made less power on the same hot day. Look at the files at the end
The motocross industry lost a lot when they ruled out 2 strokes. 4 strokes are great except for the maintenance factor , it's too expensive to rebuild a 4 stroke racing engine. 2 strokes rule for racing.
No truer words
4 strokes are for lawn mowing.
@@stp479 lol
I got a CRF 2021 and I find it big time underpowered compared to my 2012 KX 450.... It cant lug worth a damn and the suspension is finaky as fuck... And to top it all off after only 20 hrs, 10 of which were trail hours, both fork seals are leaking... The chain, sprockets, and brakes are shredded... It's also gasing up the oil in the base.... I ain't impressed to say the least !! Might have to fire up my killer 2004 KX 500.
How many young kids have been boned by the 4 stroke world I wonder
This cracks me up. Back in the day I loved the CR500 & KX500. Who'd have thought they'd have more grunt than today!
They don’t lol
I love this. People post big numbers for their “modded” stuff but never actually go to a dyno to measure improvements. Keep up the good work!!!
love the dyno vids, especially when you show differences when you add stage kits!!
I need to see the Manic Mechanic do a baseline wheelie on it.
Captain you are going to have everybody riding CR500s before this is all done!
I think that's what the plan is 🙂👍👊✊💨💨💨
I build and modify MX engines for a living and these guys are dead on with everything they are saying. Ken has got the baddest place around! Love everything they are doing there. Listen to what these guys are saying because its no BS here!
Compare the cost of a ring and piston swap on a 2 stroke vs a 4 stroke top end fix...you know as easy as you can please!!!!!
I got so I could do
P and Rd with my eyes closed 47$
Oh and I knew the rear fender part # by heart...lol thanx!
It’s not always about peak horsepower, a broad power curve will certainly be better on a motocross track. I remember back in the late seventies comparing my RM 125 to a CZ 125 and the CZ was so peaky it was very difficult to utilize the power in a consistent way, unlike my RM. It may have made a couple of more HP at 10,000rpm but overall it was slower around the track.
Different Strokes for Different Folks! I love them all and had just as many two strokes as 4 strokes (even a 500 *1986). I have to say in the woods here in Oregon - I am faster on a my 450 or 501 (4 stroke) than any two stoke. The Two stroke shines in some situations (I love the maintenance vs 4 stroke).But for me the 450's these days are amazing. I am in my 50's (that may make a difference), but fuel injection and usable power is also good to have. I love them all...
Not gonna lie, I got 95 mph on a 13t - 50t set up. I also weigh 245 lbs & also got 325 hours out of a stock bike. Also not in aggressive mode. Its definitely gotta be the bike you have. I got the bike in October.
Mr. Kaplan, who do you recommend for 2 stroke porting??? I have a 2019 TM Racing EN300ES and have bought/ordered about every engine mod available, and porting is the only thing left (it took me a couple years to get to this point, but God has blessed me while I stayed focused on the goal). The TM Racing EN300 comes with an HGS pipe system stock, but I bought a Pro Circuit cause it actually makes the most torque and HP out of all pipes available for these engines. I ordered a VHM cylinder head with a high compression insert, STIC Metering Bloc & stic JD Jetting kit, came with a VForce Reed and I bought a Reed block extender for bottom end. It has a digital power valve that works flawlessly that I will be getting the new maps from Italy to download on my ignition map selector switch, and it already has a Pro X piston that comes stock. I also have a radiator fan kit and a billet super cooler kit similar to what boyesen makes...
I plan on buying there carbon fiber intake system later, and porting is the only thing left that I need to do - it already requires me to run race fuel in stock format so don't mind paying extra for race gas, as it runs VP C12 right now. Thank you for passing on truthful information, as always! 💪 😎 🔥 So what do you think? MRE, TMR, PC??? Who should I go with for the best porting? Thank you Kaplan Cycle Team, for all of the hard effort and work put into keeping this sacred sport alive!!!!🤘 👌
I plan to send this project bike to be showcased in your museum in a year or two since they are a little more rare with only 1500 units made worldwide every year, with only 75-150 reaching the US market every year. I want people to appreciate this Italian engineering as much as I do! :) God bless you guys, and God bless 🇺🇸!
How does it compare in terms of weight to a equal 2 stroke and how does the toque wise.
Nice work on the dyno but I was under the impression the 60 horsepower edition of the 2022 CRF included a CR500 engine and bolt in conversion kit? Might be worth making a call to the dealer.
I wonder if the switch from dual exhaust to single tip exhaust made a difference.
Good job. Loaded with useful information here boy's. Now to market place for a barn find
ayup ken and gang i wish they would start mass producing the big 2 strokes again the CR RM YZ KX the 1st one i saw wos a rm 500 it sent goose bumps down my arm i loved it and loved 2 strokes ever since
My heart bleeds for the younger generations some of whom have never experienced a 2smoke machine and especially those who have never never been on a starting gate and felt the smell and sound of a REAL moto.I just hope the environment is safer now without the greatest thrill a man can ever have being produced-a 2smoke mx production bike
I know how you feel, my heart bleeds for them too. Unfortunately and usually, nowadays, the only kids who are getting the real two stroke experience, are the ones who are from the multi generational moto-x family starting out on the 50’s, and going through the classes. 50’s-65’s-85’s...uh-oh...125 ?or 250F ? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@yzmoto80 Yeah but it's not fair to them. The new bikes are too insane to work on yourself and learn to service your own bike and besides they can never experience a full live moto with all 2 strokes.if they could know what they're missing they'd be furious
There are 2 strokes again since 2015 ahahahahhaha
There’s only one Japanese manufacturer who’s made two stroke consistently, a year here, a year there doesn’t count so Kawasaki’s out, Honda nope Suzuki nope, ktm and husky sure but there Austrian and guys are loyal and there tpi it’s different. The only Japanese manufacturer who never stopped was Yamaha. There can’t be moto if there’s not enough bikes that only two or three that could even qualify
I'm only 21, didn't grow up riding much (over protective mother) but my Dad would drive me out of the city when he could and we would rent bikes and ride where we could. Now that I have my own cash and space to work I went right for a 99 Kx250 2-stroke and have been teaching myself to work on it. I've got it firing up first kick cold and have started going to a local track to get into riding. I've ridden one 450 and I think my KX is pretty close if not the same in terms of power. It's definitely way more fun! No one else my age had a 2 stroke but I don't care, I love it. Wish I was born about 30 years ago lol
are they tuned for a break in period ?
Wow I just learned something from you guys about what you were saying about stretching out the timing chain retards the timing I think that’s happened to my 1980XR250 and 1985XL600 when the engines went
And for a heads up...if buying more '22 chassis' to do another 500 engine swap...save a bit of $....the '22 250's are exactly the same as the 450's...
How much is a CR500AF? Like 10-15k?
SAE J1349 is the current gold standard of dyno testing and represents the newest widely accepted industry standard correction factor. Reengineered in 1990 (yeah, a long time ago), the SAE correction factor standardizes temperature to 77-degrees F, 29.23inHg and dry, 0-percent ok for the haters that Don't know what they're talking about.sae corrected is the best way to test. It will insure that air temp and pressure is consistent hence you know if your making gains or losses
Do you have a 2019 crf 450 to see how that runs would be interesting
Ken have you seen the HP outputs of all the 2021 motocross 450s in motocrossaction magazine . They range from a claimed 55.5 to nearly 59hp. Im confused. 🤔😞😨
Now, I wonder how much a recent Husky TC250 or KTM 250SX twostrokes make on that dyno… any chance you can get one on there?
Thanx for the great content, I love all your clips, especially of the older motorcycles❤️
Mike,
* 2021 TC250 put up.
40.3 Hp. And 19.3
* 2021 Husky FC450
55.0 HP. 34.6.
@@silkcustoms520 what you listed for the TC250 is actually the FC250, which is the 4 stroke. The TC250 makes 49 HP and 32 lb-ft of torque.
ill stick with my 2005 yz250 47hp i think. stock. 20 years of what more computers and wires. bigger price tag for what a bike that does smoother power. naw stick with my 2 strokes. again you are the best person ive ever seen in my life of motorcycles. like no bs no sugar coating a 4 stroke, sad that it fooled me so many years ago, 2 strokes for life baby.
FYI Dyno smoothing is exactly what it says it is smoothed out the graph with it off it would look jagged. Showing timing events like on modern sport bikes. Say if it has detanation and ECU takes away timing. As far as the SAE standard goes it's the ONLY way to compare Dyno runs. It simply standardizes air temp and pressure. That way you can see if your making gains or losses. Mabe you should make a video explaining smoothing and SAE standard testing. That way it might slow down the crappy comments from the internet know it all's.
Keep living that 2 stroke life Kenny
Ive heard some guys complaining about these new Hondas, at the track, one fella bought a 2021YZF 450 and left it at his practice track, after riding it one weekend and went and Traded it for a new CRF450 R and he said he loves it!
Anybody help me out with a list of air cooled big bore 2 strokes ? I know suzuki made the rm465 and yamaha I think a 490 .
Dyno time! Wait, 47 bhp? LOL! you guys let me know my 89 2fiddy makes a corrected 41 bhp. Hahahahaha. Thanks, the truth truly hurts. I love it. The 500R you did earlier that was modded made close to 60 is horse power, boom, 2 strokes do truck! Thank you Kaplan Cycles, you truly the athority on dirt bikes! Free-Bird...
would like to see how the graphs looked with all 3 different maps
Hey, I gotta ask, what is the spatula lookin thing on that mic?
So what were the 17's putting down
Wonder what a 1997 to 2000 cr 250 Dyno power output is compared to this 450 because they had some rip and my previous 98 cr 250 and the 99 I have now seem faster when racing ?
I can port them for free. It doesn’t take much. Thanks for the effort and work men.
If the dyno has a weather station it should adjust for heat, and getting off the bike when dyno ing can add a little power too
Should put a modern 300 2st on the dyno and see what it produces, husky tx, exc/xc tpi, sherco, etc
I bought a 2022 CRF450R and it was a heartbreaker but after five hours she turned into a different animal and so did my friends may be breaking. Is little longer than one hour
Don't think so
Is that the stock gearing?
Would love for you to dyno a 03 cr250 with a fmf pipe to get a comparison with a 500
Usable 50 whp that hooks up.
I'm a die hard 2t guy. But the new high reving 450s have a long linear power band that is flat out easier to ride fast.
100%
It is easier but you can ride more and build muscles to handle it. The cost of a four stroke is just too much for me. Sorry not sorry. On that note ride whatever you can and have fun. We only have right now.
2 stroke for fun 4 stroke for winning race's
If you know how to ride you can get by with any two stroke. You just have to not be lazy. I had track records on a 125.
Ryan Lewis, I owned and ridden both. Totally Agree with your statement.
Is it possible to put the electronics on a 2 stroke motor set up for different maps similar to the 4 stroke that may change delivery power like a different weight fly wheel dose for a 500 2 stroke & get the handling of a 250 stroke
KTM has it
No disrespect at all ken but do you think your weight affected the dyno? Or does that not matter?
So how’s it compare to the 08 crf450r
I learned a long time ago Dynos sell motor builds. On the same side some builders hide behind their Dyno . I’ve had personal experience with building motors for friends and they would go get them re dynoed and were disappointed because their dyno guy played games. However said the same motor would have gained several bike lengths in a race and ran for years!
Kaplan breaking hearts with the truth, feel like my 06 RM-Z450 can match that.
I'd like to know how much hp that old green banger CR250M is putting out
I'm in to street bikes and my 2020 BMW S1000RR M was restricted by 56hp in 2 3 4 and 5thgear. My bike was one of the first in the country and by far was the most restrictive to date. Dude the entire shop went into a frenzy after making runs in all gears thinking the bike was hurt but after digging into the tune realized we weren't getting anywhere close to 80% open throttle and 100% only existed in 6th after 12700rpm! I understand now why they have to do this to get the bikes into the country but I can't wrap my head around what's to gain by choking out these off-road competition bikes. I would not keep my bike if I wasn't able to get a tune to open it up, my draggy data showed I was quicker doing a pull from 60-150 in 6th gear than starting in second gear and running it through the gears! I had to wait 6months for my tuner to crack the ecu. Thanks for sharing and I can't believe the restrictions being dished out all around!
Get a 250 on the dyno on holeshot i can keep with 450s till i get to 5th gear an 250 2 strokes till they get to 6th gear they just keep going i have a full titanium akraprovic exhaust on my yzf250 2015 its pretty quick enough for the riding i do anyway
I think I'm on to something, I ride a 94 cr500 on the dirt and my weapon of choice for asphalt is my 06 zx14 with a little head work putting down 197.6 arm stretching h.p.
I'm looking for a 73 montesa 250 ?
Back when Henry made his debut to us with the 4 stroke at Broome Tioga we laughed pointed and hated that thing ....
my buddy swore that he could make more power and a faster CR than any 4smoke to come...before passing away he said electric will Dominate the future!!!
I had the honor of getting a 83 CR125 out of his garage when all was sorted...after a bit of cleaning etc that bike was unreal. .zero vibration and that thing ripped....ok so a guy at work says he rode b4 and he comes to house I said she's warmed up....
THE BIGGEST WHISKEY THROTTLE you ever could see into a row of pine trees that 2 yrs prior I had trimmed....those 2-3" nubs ripped him up like barbed wire...forks folded in bars kinked into tank....he payed me b4 this.. ended up w 100 stitches one on his back was V shaped flap
Anyway that's my 2-v 4 story
You could always do the funky stuff people pull to try and get bigger numbers. Oxygenated fuel, pull air lid/filter, gut the muffler (if possible), run lighter weight engine oil and way lighter tranny side, non o ring chain. I am in now way saying this is honest or even practical but it would show how some people dyno claims get 5-6 more hp.
Have you guys ran a dyno on the 19. The 2019 was the only crf that was clamed to have 60 rwhp.
The tune will make a big difference plus you can Taylor the power with your laptop in some cases your phone.don’t get me wrong I love two strokes but this bike is less tiring to ride and far more consistent lap after lap back in the day Honda’s magic in the 500 class was in the crankshafts they did a ton of experiments to get the secret sauce...listen to baileys bike in the 80s very smooth and low vibration.
You guys did put a tune on the yz450f though which would explain some of the difference
Oh lawd! 450 owners will be in denial still after this video. Great content guy’s! 🇺🇸💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Please dyno a couple of cr250 wanna see what they put down
Keep up the good work
Only 47.8 horsepower? Most two stroke 250's can do better than that!
Please Dyno the 1989 Honda CR 250, I want to see what my bike is making. It runs good, but feels slow compared to my CR 500
The new 450s were never designed to race against 500s...they take place of the 250cc 2-strokes! I don't get it here. Love ya guys tho!
@trav3510 trav3510and swear by it
He's mostly referring to weekend warriors who want to ride without very costly monthly rebuilds. And yes a 450 might be faster but they have the engine right on the ragged edge of blowing up to do so a built 250 won't need rebuilt as often and way cheaper and easier if it is needed.
Have you guys ever had a cr250r on the dyno? Curious what the 250 2 strokes make.
Yup search our video's
Great video!
Motocross Actions 21 450 shootout shows the CRF 450 and YZ 450 within a half a horsepower of each other with the Honda having better torque.
Yamaha was 58.56 HP 34.36 Torque
Honda 58.19 and 37.13
They get paid by the manufacturer
Price on a 2022 cr450??
Price on a 1997 cr500???
Ken can you do a cr500 carb shootout on the dyno pj with boysen bowl pwk lectron and smart carb would love to know the truth between carbs. Keep up the great work 👍
Did it already, pwk airstryker won
It's nice video 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Success for you Brother 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I'd say to be fair on it seeing as some of your 500's have mods and pipes, do a test on the 22 450R with an aftermarket pipe, opened up airbox and a re-flash just to see what it can do at its best, before you do the engine swap. Oh and if you still have the beautiful 86 KX 125, please do a Dyno run on it with the street tyre, as I I've never seen a mid 80's KX125 dyno run.
Its coming stevie!! Is next week fast enough!?
I personally have rode, cr500, kx500, and own a ktm450. The 500's are a beast... I think the ktm RFS engine is a more manageable power. I can regularly smoke my friend on his crf450... The ktm has a smoothness that just keeps pulling...
Id like to see one of the older crf450 like 05-08 would do
had a STREET LEGAL SINCE NEW aanndd ex pro enduro 2005 450 r. had a lukes racing 500cc big bore and aftermarket head from idk who. stopped racing it when honda signed me for enduro and part of the deal was a street kit and tires for the old race bike. got hit by a car 2 days later destroying the bike and my left leg. about to get a street legal 02 450r to replace it.
A slightly used 2022 CRF450R for sell at New England Motorcycle Museum. Runs great, looks great, I have a bruised ego and can't ride it anymore, $10,500.
Hope to see what the Maico 490 is putting down.
Kaplan tienes unas lindas motos saludos des ecuador
Looking at the 2021 video that was referenced, tire pressure (load) would be a variable, and the fact that there seemed to be a lot of choppiness in the chain on this video suggests something wasn't set up quite right. A chain that is too tight, too slack or misaligned will rob power at a crazy rate. I say run again.
That is still pretty good. I had 2001 CR250 and it had 52.3 HP at crank.
Maybe
@@KaplanCycles It may not have been - never had it tested. The HP was printed on the Certificate Of Origin - if I have the document named correctly.
Now I am wondering how Robbie Knievel's CR500 would do on the DYNO.
This is awesome because it’s the same dyno. What does a typical 250 2 stroke put out?
I would also like to know what a 250/300 2 stroke would put down.
@@landistitman2973 a new yz250 two stroke on the right dyno and proper jetting puts out 42-45hp. A ktm 250sx, carb model, jetted properly will put down 48-51. 300 has more torque but only a couple more peak hp. 50 for that 450 with fuel injection is pathetic.
Rode a cr500 for the first time today, I was disappointed. All the hype you guys show I was expecting it to pull my arms off. Haha my 2020 has more power. However, I had a blast on it. Thing rides like a big block Chevy
Look at the charts the main end. . They did a pull with the 500 right before this according to the dyno. 48 hp. Rune file 10. U look at the 500 video irs run file 9 on a diff day. So the 450 4 stroke made more power back to back same day. Hard to make peak power in 90* weather.
The dude rips wheelies up the street with no helmet and then wears ear protection on the dyno 🤣 good shit
map 1 has the most peak hp from what iv read .the aggressive map has more down low then signs off a bit sooner . i built a cr500 AF back in the day and it was too much bike for me , currently i have a 2022 Yz250 and im waiting on a 2023 crf450 anniversary edition to land .
Nailed it Junior .. 👍😉
I gotta hand it to you Kap, I didn't think you'd change the correction factor on the dyno just to keep the myth of a 500 making more power alive, yet here we are. 4:01 gives you away. Lucky for you most of your viewers won't notice anyway.
Cuh cuh cuh combo breaker
Noticed the EXACT same thing
Your wrong, and in the words of super hunky Rick Siemen "YOU REALLY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN", dont worry The mechanic mechanic will put you in your place, stay tuned
Next video: "no, we didn't purposely alter the dyno, trust us" looking forward to it. 4:01 is all the proof anyone needs though.
Wasn't it SAE in this video with the 450, and also earlier when he dynoed the 500? I had to look up correction factor so I don't know much about it but I'm curious about what you're saying
I think you got screwed Ken Ole buddy 😂 my YZ 250 2 stroke had that much Dead stock, with my tricks I've added, she probably has nearly 50 RWHP or a wee bit more. Edited to add : can't wait to see it with the 2 stroke 500 engine.👍
Both are fantastic bikes and the 500 is the better and the faster bike . when you do the maths at
61 hp for the 500, that's just a fraction over 12.2 Hp per 100 cc. when you do the maths of the
450 4 stroke at 50hp, that's 11.1 hp per 112.5 cc but when you break down what the extra 50cc
would give you to make 500cc. the 450 with the extra 50cc would make 54.35 hp which is quite
impressive considering a 4 stroke has 2 extra cycles compared to the 2 strokes.
cr500 makes 54whp stock
Ken..please..com'on man, put a shorter swingarm on the Cagiva (so it fits onto the Dyno), and let's see what she does..i think it has the CR500's beat!
I wonder why they make 450's and not 500 four strokes?
How would you say it rides though in comparison to your cr500?
Excellent
@@KaplanCycles ken put the big boy ktm 380sx exc on the dyno love to see numbers of that weapon
I want to see the 1988 cr500 on the dyne ,please
I'm not hating. I'm a bike builder I don't hate all I care about is craftsmanship and numbers. But this is why I've strayed away from Honda. Because Honda Factory Team always had the fastest bikes at the track. But very rarely did they ever have the fastest bike right out of the box for the consumer. I'd be willing to bet almost anything that if you dynoed Ken Roczens bike from 2021 it would blow that bike out of the water. I think you know that to Mr. Kaplan. Great video.
22's already have the flash update at the factory....it was the 21's they put the update out for
Great video. I got in a argument with a guy yesterday trying to tell me his 2016 rmz 450 was a way better bike than my 96 cr 250 that my bike was an old piece of shit
That's not bad can u dyno a 2023 yz450f
It's not Honda's fault 4 stroke dirtbikes can't compete with their CR's.
Sounds good but getting very hard to find any decent 2 stokes especially 500 you have them all ...hahaha
These new engines are typically cut back in the computer until the engine breaks in .