you should keep in mind there are hordes of people that still think the 2001 tech is better even after seeing this video. In fact many of them are here in the comment section. I am always amazed at people who swear allegiance to mechanical things and concepts.
@@stizuart no you got it wrong they just like the 2 stroke. Nothing about technology. A two stroke makes more power cc to cc. Also sounds way better. That’s why people like them👍🏻
Imagine if you had a brand new exactly what you're talking about but you do not technology has nothing to do with what a 2-cycle engine does and you can go on and on till eternity trying to explain what you never have been taught. Never won a 4-cycle engine will never be able to produce the same horsepower equal to 8 two stroke a both engines naturally aspirated. Two-cycle engines naturally internally make boost in the crankcase a pressures higher than the atmosphere that is transferred to the combustion chamber through the Boost ports as was taught to me by none other than the greatest tuner there ever was pop Yoshimura so until you have his intelligence you are nothing
@@07scoobywrx you are not wrong what has happened over the years the knowledge of how I 2-cycle makes boost and self superchargers itself is lost motorcycle companies are taking advantage of this making money hand over fist with a debate debating facts that's pretty freaking stupid in the first place when two cycles make boost and four Cycles can only suck
My first new bike was a 1981 YZ465H @ 22 yrs old, my current ride is a 2021 CRF450RL with Yoshi and Vortex @ 62 yrs young, HONDA make a new 500 two stroke and I will buy one also!
Mr. Honda himself hated 2-strokes with a passion. We wont see any more from them, ever. Built 500 is where you'll have to go to keep the big 2-strokers alive.
I have a KX500AF and tbh a 450 has the same power. A 450 is just more tame and manageable. The 500 isn't faster, it isn't quicker, better or anything. It's just different, and fun.
I’ve owned numerous 500s including a new service Honda and many 450s also. The stock 500 af with a pipe struggles to beat a 450 but for the dunes here in Utah at elevation when I ported my 500 af with a RK tech head with bumped up compression and 100 octane fuel it was night and day and pulled the 450 hard up sand mtn. 500 is old tech but just needs a bump in compression and good fuel and it’s amazing.
@@ianerdman5013 cuz they dont want everyone busting a bill nye the science guy carrying around viles/ bottles to Texaco or chevron fuel stations. I still aspire to a own any 2stroke this year tho :)
There is AJ Waggoner's company, Built500 , hes making all sorts of parts for conversions and for the 500 engines themselves! And he's the man who ran the Service Honda 500 AF conversions , He's kinda the pioneer on aluminum frame 500's!
I grew up on a 2-stroke (I have a 450 now) but it sure sounds to me like you guys ride that 2-stroke like a 4-stroke. It should be high in the RPMs before you shift....not like a 4-stroke necessarily. Let that 500 sing and I bet it would be a very different result in this application. On a track, the 450 would clean up but on paddles the 500 should shine. As another commenter mentioned, this is the first time I've heard of a 500 with a narrow powerband. Drive a YZ 80 and you'll know what a narrow powerband feels like. 500's have lots of power so it's spread out unlike some of the smaller 2-strokes.
Yeah a 500's powerband is pretty monstrous, it kicks in pretty early and is like a freight train all the way up! These guys are chopping the throttle and slowly using the clutch to shift. When I'm ripping I don't ever back the throttle off...or use the clutch to up shift. That 500 should DESTROY any 450 4-stroke... in the sand especially. Put Jeff Ward on there and see what the 500s time is up that hill!
you are 100% correct, 4 stroke riders do not know how to ride 2t properly, I've been riding 2 stroke since I'm 11 and I'm 15 rn in a 80 ur supposed to make the bike get to high ram before shifting like make it scream, 4 stroke are slower the 2t should win, just need to know how to ride 2ts
A 450 thumper is legitimately fast. I'd guess 99% of riders will be faster everywhere on a 450 verses the 500. While having a slightly higher peak horsepower number, the 500 has a lower redline and a peakier powerband. Most people can't launch a 500 well in a sand drag. I couldn't without a ton of clutch slip and a ton of bad launches first. My service Honda AF had an even peakier mid/top port job. The flat torque curve of the 450 makes them super easy to launch. That flat powerband makes them easier to ride fast on a track also. 20 years of refinement makes the 500 obsolete. Still a blast to ride but nostalgia will only get you so far in a race.
500 has legitimately bigger peak torque numbers. But the flat 450 torque is much more usable. But mainly the 450 turns twice the rpm seeing as how the 500 has no power valve.
@@dormantmenace I thought the power valve was for bottom end. Didn't they port them more for top end back when they didn't have the power valve, so shouldn't rpm be same regardless of power valve?
Ya and the 500 will wear you out a lot more also. 500s way more fun tho imo. I use to have a mint ‘87 that scared me, and most who rode it to death lol
@@jaredkish8716 I have to agree completely< my 99 KX500 wears me out and I'm pretty fit. Had a 91 CR500 for 9 years that seemed docile compared to the KX.
@@gregjordan5900 seriously lol I used to rip my friends 2000 cr500 and the front wheel would come up in the bottom of 5th lol he had a zx10 and said the 500 was scarier to ride
Four strokes overheat in deep sand,mud and high altitude. I used to be able to buy a whole used two stroke for the cost of a thumper top end overhaul. I'm light so prefer 250. I honestly couldn't kick a 500 when it's cold after camping or hot when you crash. Speaking of crashing, before electric start flooded thumpers could go from first to last. Two strokes are like Lighting the fuse on a skyrocket then it turns into a magic carpet that grants your every wish. Four strokes are like a very good race car that got cut in half lengthwise.
@@mikehayes2975 absolutely. I have a 94 cr500, I went riding with a guy who's 450 was supposed to stomp my 500. It didn't. He wasn't to appreciative of the dunlop mx12 I had on the rear. He said it was chunking boulders at him
100% comes down to rider ability and knowing how to ride the 500. I have had a kx500 since new from 2004 and they do not have a narrow power band. They produce plenty of power and torque all through the revs. If you can't beat a 450 in a straight line there is something very wrong. I have never had a 450 get in front of my 500.
@@Corteum I disagree with that. It's not that good for your clutch and gearbox. It's common in moto and supercross because they have top class parts on their bikes and need to use it to clear a jump or to pass someone.
@@LittleLifeJ I've always rode 2-strokes that way, since 85cc up. I don't think I know anyone who does it any other way. And those who do aren't doing it I guarantee you are not winning races.
You hit the nail on the head. The 450 is easier to ride due to the wider torque band. It pains me to say that because I rode a CR500 during the glory days before they dropped the class in the Nationals and thought my bike (modified) was the most powerful thing I ever rode. Riding some 30 years later I will have to admit that at the end of the day I am less fatigued on a 450.
Hard to call... the 450 is probably going to be faster time was for 99% of the riders... way more forgiving, more even power spread across the band, especially low down means slightly less than perfect gear changes wont be as devastating on lap times. I'd probably still want to ride the 500 though as its 2 stroke and has that sound and smell you just don't get from a 4 stroke. Probably a handful of very skilled 2 stroke riders on a suitable circuit would be able to take full advantage of the extra grunt of the 500 and beat the 450 but as much as i dont want to write if I were doing anything serious i'd ride the 450.
Great video. Had a 1991 and 1995 KX500 the the motor is a monster! Like the wt of the 2 stroke but like the usable power on the 4 stroke. Smile factor, 2 stroke for sure.
fastest dirt bike i ever rode was total trick 2012 450r...i never rode in sand tho...MAN!!!! FRIGHTENING ACCELERATION !! VETTES DONT STAND A CHANCE...i got no self control when i ride that beast and never dreamed id hit top speed on it !!! great video yall
Some internal massaging, updated electronics, update carb. or EFI and the 500 would in a league of it's own. Modern 450's however do rock and roll, no questions about it.
So the 500 2stroke is basically a 450 4stroke. This makes it very apparent that the AMA rule is unfair about making you race in the 450 class if you want to ride a 250 2stroke
@@justletmecomment6453 modern 250fs are making 40hp an up now. Yea the ktm 125s are making around 37hp but the *power is really peaky compared to the more tame an useable yz125s 34 hp stock. A considerable difference either way and the 250 2t have way more peak power than the 250fs. Maybe a 150 2t would work On the other end the 450s and the 20 year old 500 motors are more comparable and would be alot more competitive
The new 450s are pretty crazy fast. The cr500 engine is 30 years old. Technology has grown a lot in 30 years. Good comparison video. I would have thought the 500 in sand would be way faster just because it has more horsepower.
It all depends on the total weight and other variables when riding on sand.the bike has to plain on the surface of the sand,in the 80's I don't think there was a 4 stroke that was light enough or powerful enough to ride on very soft sand, with the exception of maybe the xr honda, but now all the 4 strokes are light enough and powerful enough to match a good 2 stroke. there were very few water cooled 4 strokes in the 80's they were all air cooled and really couldn't handle the demands of being on sand. this is a good experiment I'm sure lots of people would be curious,thanx for producing this for us, I'm sure u enjoyed it I know I would.
I desert race CR 500 for 12 years. My bike was modified by me and made 96 horsepower at the wheel. Top speed of a 138 miles per hour. And set up for drag racing it ran quarter mile in 9.08 sec. at 145 mph on alcohol.
I'm surprised how close it was. I figured a 450 would win on a track but get whipped on the dunes. Honestly, the fact that the 500 is even competitive is impressive since it's basically 80's technology. Well, the engine anyway.
Yup. Modern 450s are more efficient and more powerful than the 500 2 strokes. No surprise there (although some people are clueless and think otherwise)
Yall need to do a showdown between the honda 450 and the kx500 I think the results would be way different don't get me wrong I'm a huge honda fan but those kawasakis were a way different machine power wise
@@jamesshaver7977 my thoughts exactly! Unless he wants the 07 because it's the last year for Honda's 🚬 smoking section....lol. sad day's...from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸🤠
Just picked up my first CR500, it is a 2006 CR500AF and man what an incredible bike!! I like it better then my brand new built KX450! I don’t see myself ever getting rid of the 500 now that I have it because my KX feels like riding a Sherman tank compared to the AF… can’t beat the torque of the big bore 2 stroke!
Let's look at it this way, the CR500 engine had its horsepower peak in 86 and afterwards they built em more tame. I always think people have to look at the four strokes from that time to actually see how much of a dinosaur we are looking at here, agewise.... so still a more than respectable result.
So im not trying to make any assumptions, but I'm very much assuming that the 500 guy doesn't have too much seat time on a 2 stroke🤣 I would love to see some elite riders go head to head on these! Great vid
@@shockadellick you must not ride much.I routinely walk away from new 4strokes on a 01 banshee or 04 sx250.I sound better,cheaper to fix and since I work on them for a living also pay my bills on their 4digit rebuilds.nice try😎
You just KNOW that somewhere there is a Honda mad scientist who has kept up the technology over the years on the 2 stroke. And you KNOW its a BEAST!!!!
There is a mad scientist! He is just living at KTM, BETA, and a few other place's...lol...a guy in Canada makes a counterbalanced 500 with reed's and variable porting like a Kx or any snowmobile engine... I'm so hard-up for a smoker I'm lQQking at the GPX TSE250-300r from 🇨🇳China...from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸🤠
Put 30+ years of research and design into that cr500 motor, transmission , and carborator and see what happens. My understanding from guys who used to ride cr500 is after 1986 they reduced the power on it for some reason. I've heard cause it was just too powerful and the power made it hard to ride/controll. I have ridden a 1989 cr500 and it was not in great shape. The bike was scary fast and with the old bike tech, suspension, and design it really was only good at climbing big hills and drag racing. I ride a 1998 cr250 now and it's plenty fast/has enough power. The 4 strokes have come along way since 2000s and have a broad useable power band but, you just can't beat the way 2strokrs powerband and power delivery feels when riding. 2strokes will always have you with a grin after taking a ride. Keep the 4strokes and revive the 2strokes with current technology and it's a win for every type/ style rider.
Had an 87 CR500 as an eastern woods ride for twenty years (last ten in Commiefornia with just a small gearing change) stupidest thing I ever did was sell it
CARBURETOR?!? Fuel injection, baby. With a dozen different maps. Some Honda magic to broaden the powerband, and…or wait: it may need to be broadened out of self-defense from a 90hp beast
@@CorePathway you know what I meant by carborator and how the fuel is injected. But hey new 450 4 strokes have tFI and they cost 10 thousand dollars or more. So I'm betting the company's love it cause they are making more money on every bike sold. My bike was almost 7 K out the door and I got a set of riding gear, which I don't see dealership's doing any more I couldn't even get a helmet or even a pair of $30 riding gloves when buying a new 450 works edition.
@@StrykerV8 If you think two strokes aren't competitive you would be very foolish. Two strokes are lighter and on a track a lighter bike with the same equivalent power to the modern 450s, I think would surprise you which one is better 👍.
@@coloradodirtbike5930 competitive, sure. Better? No. Not unless you can tell me how a peaky engine with a narrow power band is better than a bike with more power and a flat torque curve
The 500 wins in every category except ease of use. The 500 is easier and cheaper to own and maintain and 10-20 years from now will still be worth more than the 450. Oh, and if that 450 drops a valve you better have a deep bank account cause 4 strokes are $$ to fix. How often to you see rollers for sale because of the repair costs on the 4 strokes? The 4 strokes are cool if you like them though but I'd take a 2T every time for off road stuff.
This makes me miss my 87 yz250. It loved that side of sand mountain and the fingers. My wr450 is super fun too. But that built 250 at little Sahara was a riot.
I'd like to see a comparison with a new ktm 300Tpi just to see how it hangs with the 450 using reasonably up to date tech. I'd really like to see honda bring us the tech they used on the now ancient CRM 450 dakar bike, with injection and electronic power valve.
Because, as I suspected, this video, like SO many others, is a thinly veiled attempt at push the "4-stroke is better than the 2-stroke" argument. I rode 125 MX and loved it. The two stroke engine is so simple (as in few parts) and is reliable, cheap and powerful. Easy to work on and modify with regular tools.
McGrath says he wouldn't take a 500 and line up against a bunch of 450s. 6 and a half minutes into this video. th-cam.com/video/wwOJdRMGA-o/w-d-xo.html
Whew...my 500s power band starts at idle and grunts hard to 6500ish, had to relearn clutching the turns when I switched to the 450. Just tractor out of them on the 500 w/ the front tire hanging. Totally diff experience than these guys had. Maybe that FMF does more than I thought!!
I remember the last air-cooled open class two-stroke Rotax built. It had a strange powerband with a lot off the bottom and not so much on top. It looked strange with more fins on top of head. It was right around the time they brought out a four-stroke. A modern 250 2t would make more power now.
Bikes look pretty even and rider is more important than anything. What I take from this.....its taken them 20 some yrs to catch up in 4 stroke tech with the old king of the hill 500. As a crf450x owner I love my bike but.....I'd kick it to the curb any day if I had a 500 to ride. The 80s and 90s 2 strokes are what I grew up with.
I own a CR500AF and a CRF450X with head porting and an R camshaft. I'd put them pretty damn close to one another, especially considering the 500AF weighs 18lbs less than the 450. I was expecting arm ripping power from the 500, but I have to say that after building it this winter, it's not as crazy as everyone makes it out to be.
@@michaelpetro9336 I believe it with a newer 450. Mine's an 09. My 500af is in a 2004 250x chassis, so the geometry is identical to the 450x so it's kind of neat riding them back to back cause they feel like the same bike sitting on them, but man are they different
@@jameshisself9324 Not really...The pistons on both will last about 50 hrs of hard use on average....but how much does it take to replace them...2 stroke wins....and I averaged 85 hrs on a piston with a CR250 which is more stressed than a 500 , but I'm pretty careful with mine....
@@GyroPyro121212 the power on the 450 is less usable than the 500 2 stroke? That's backwards my guy. The 500 has a very narrow and almost unusable powerband
it's 80% the rider, 20% the bike. The CR500 demands a rider to be on the game to get power down whereas any modern four stroke is way more forgiving if you get something wrong. The market is crazy for a 500 regardless of condition whereas blown up 450's are a dime a dozen, and the amount of $$$ sunk into four strokes by manufacturers over the last 25 years they'd all be hoping that it is competitive, especially against an 80's non-power valved, vibe shaking CR500 engine. If manufacturers sunk the same amount of coin into 2T development like they have for 4T since 1998 then I imagine we'd see a lot more 2T bikes in racing still.
They fact they are close just shows how hard the factories duped the AMA with the displacement advantage. I think if they evened the playing field with CC's either lowering the 450 to a 350 we might see a higher desire for 2 strokes again. The 125 should also be bumped to a 150 from all manufacturers to keep up with 250s. But the factories wanna sell you that expensive 4 stroke with the expensive maintenance since they cannot exist on pure volume anymore.
I disagree. I think with modern 4 strokes they can keep up with the same displacement 2t. But at the time 4 strokes were ass, and needed the displacement advantage
I drag raced a '91 Kawasaki KX500 at Bonneville Raceway back in the 90's. Put a street tire on the rear and geared it tall. Ran a 12.82 at 100.5mph. Not sure what a modern 450 would pull?
Honestly I'm an old school 2 stroke fan. Real test is bring what you have and play in my back yard. Any bike or rider make it through blackwater. It's a good bike and a good rider. Honest
Not a very reliable test really, since as the guy admitted at 9:04, the timing difference could've just been due to him hitting the timer a slower. lol
Take into consideration that the 500 is using at best 2001 tech vs 2021 tech! Imagine a modern day 2021 cr500 thing would be a monster
you should keep in mind there are hordes of people that still think the 2001 tech is better even after seeing this video. In fact many of them are here in the comment section. I am always amazed at people who swear allegiance to mechanical things and concepts.
@@stizuart Dont get me wrong I’d take the 500 all day everyday
@@stizuart no you got it wrong they just like the 2 stroke. Nothing about technology. A two stroke makes more power cc to cc. Also sounds way better. That’s why people like them👍🏻
Imagine if you had a brand new exactly what you're talking about but you do not technology has nothing to do with what a 2-cycle engine does and you can go on and on till eternity trying to explain what you never have been taught. Never won a 4-cycle engine will never be able to produce the same horsepower equal to 8 two stroke a both engines naturally aspirated. Two-cycle engines naturally internally make boost in the crankcase a pressures higher than the atmosphere that is transferred to the combustion chamber through the Boost ports as was taught to me by none other than the greatest tuner there ever was pop Yoshimura so until you have his intelligence you are nothing
@@07scoobywrx you are not wrong what has happened over the years the knowledge of how I 2-cycle makes boost and self superchargers itself is lost motorcycle companies are taking advantage of this making money hand over fist with a debate debating facts that's pretty freaking stupid in the first place when two cycles make boost and four Cycles can only suck
So we don't upgrade 2strokes for decades and they are still in the game?
No kidding! That 500cc engine was designed 50yrs ago and it's STILL competitive against the latest and greatest bike....lol...from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸🤠
@@billallen4793 ok0
O
this is just drag racing on a track the 450 walks it
Neither one of them knew enough to slap the clutch to keep it in the "narrow" power band so in my book the CR still wins!
I rode cr500’s for twenty years. I would gladly trade my new yz450fx for a cr500 in good shape. Honda, build a new cr500 and i will buy one.
I traded my CR500AF for a YZ450F then a YZ450FX. I miss the ring dinger and had a blast on it but I won't go back.
I have a 17 yz450fx and a 99 CR500R and my 500 is faster without a doubt!
My first new bike was a 1981 YZ465H @ 22 yrs old, my current ride is a 2021 CRF450RL with Yoshi and Vortex @ 62 yrs young, HONDA make a new 500 two stroke and I will buy one also!
Mr. Honda himself hated 2-strokes with a passion. We wont see any more from them, ever.
Built 500 is where you'll have to go to keep the big 2-strokers alive.
@Brooks Hadlin Tell that to KTM, Husqvarna, Beta, and Yamaha.
I have a KX500AF and tbh a 450 has the same power. A 450 is just more tame and manageable. The 500 isn't faster, it isn't quicker, better or anything. It's just different, and fun.
well you have a kx. They had a way better motor that shit on the cr500s. Your comment proves nothing
@@Thefailcycle What was I trying to prove?
Of course its fun, its a 2 stroke
I owned a 97 cr500 and the 450s couldn't keep up, I walked all over them everywhere in the desert.
I’ve owned numerous 500s including a new service Honda and many 450s also.
The stock 500 af with a pipe struggles to beat a 450 but for the dunes here in Utah at elevation when I ported my 500 af with a RK tech head with bumped up compression and 100 octane fuel it was night and day and pulled the 450 hard up sand mtn.
500 is old tech but just needs a bump in compression and good fuel and it’s amazing.
When I had my 98 500 never had a problem in the cascades with elevation change due to lectron.
Tried my brother in laws kx 500 and it was one hell on an experience ! you just can't describe the feeling it's out of this world !
2 stroke = fun
4 stroke = power
4 stroke = Fun
This debate will never be settled. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.
I love both 2 and 4 strokes, but all of these companies have put a lot of work in to making these the 4 strokes more powerful than they used to be.
@@ianerdman5013 cuz they dont want everyone busting a bill nye the science guy carrying around viles/ bottles to Texaco or chevron fuel stations. I still aspire to a own any 2stroke this year tho :)
We need an underground 2 stroke factory in the US
There is, it's called BRC
There is AJ Waggoner's company, Built500 , hes making all sorts of parts for conversions and for the 500 engines themselves! And he's the man who ran the Service Honda 500 AF conversions , He's kinda the pioneer on aluminum frame 500's!
I bought a new CRF 450. After a couple months, I learned how expensive they are to rebuild. And not nearly as exciting to ride.
Scared to ride it for another reason
Always a clown in the comments that claims they blow up a brand new bike after a couple months of riding. Maybe learn your bike.
@@FirstGendodgegarage how much does it cost to rebuild a crf450r?
how much does it cost?
Both are great bikes. I'd take the 500 for ease of maintenance and much cheaper rebuild cost
I grew up on a 2-stroke (I have a 450 now) but it sure sounds to me like you guys ride that 2-stroke like a 4-stroke. It should be high in the RPMs before you shift....not like a 4-stroke necessarily. Let that 500 sing and I bet it would be a very different result in this application. On a track, the 450 would clean up but on paddles the 500 should shine. As another commenter mentioned, this is the first time I've heard of a 500 with a narrow powerband. Drive a YZ 80 and you'll know what a narrow powerband feels like. 500's have lots of power so it's spread out unlike some of the smaller 2-strokes.
Yeah a 500's powerband is pretty monstrous, it kicks in pretty early and is like a freight train all the way up! These guys are chopping the throttle and slowly using the clutch to shift. When I'm ripping I don't ever back the throttle off...or use the clutch to up shift. That 500 should DESTROY any 450 4-stroke... in the sand especially. Put Jeff Ward on there and see what the 500s time is up that hill!
I think that they’re scared of that CR500
you are 100% correct, 4 stroke riders do not know how to ride 2t properly, I've been riding 2 stroke since I'm 11 and I'm 15 rn in a 80 ur supposed to make the bike get to high ram before shifting like make it scream, 4 stroke are slower the 2t should win, just need to know how to ride 2ts
500 don’t like to be revved. 125-250 yea but then 500 like a lot less rpm.
They make the meat of their power 6000-7500.
A 450 thumper is legitimately fast. I'd guess 99% of riders will be faster everywhere on a 450 verses the 500. While having a slightly higher peak horsepower number, the 500 has a lower redline and a peakier powerband. Most people can't launch a 500 well in a sand drag. I couldn't without a ton of clutch slip and a ton of bad launches first. My service Honda AF had an even peakier mid/top port job. The flat torque curve of the 450 makes them super easy to launch. That flat powerband makes them easier to ride fast on a track also. 20 years of refinement makes the 500 obsolete. Still a blast to ride but nostalgia will only get you so far in a race.
500 has legitimately bigger peak torque numbers. But the flat 450 torque is much more usable. But mainly the 450 turns twice the rpm seeing as how the 500 has no power valve.
@@dormantmenace guess Benjamin has to listen to you since your his king!!!
@@dormantmenace I thought the power valve was for bottom end. Didn't they port them more for top end back when they didn't have the power valve, so shouldn't rpm be same regardless of power valve?
Ya and the 500 will wear you out a lot more also. 500s way more fun tho imo. I use to have a mint ‘87 that scared me, and most who rode it to death lol
@@jaredkish8716 I have to agree completely< my 99 KX500 wears me out and I'm pretty fit. Had a 91 CR500 for 9 years that seemed docile compared to the KX.
Where's Ronnie when we need him
Four strokes suck! 😂
The one guy rides the 500 like he's scared of it
he probley is lol
@@gregjordan5900 seriously lol I used to rip my friends 2000 cr500 and the front wheel would come up in the bottom of 5th lol he had a zx10 and said the 500 was scarier to ride
@@overkilldyl6841 yea I have an r6 but man I would love to have a cr 500
they both do.
500 wins by a huge margin based solely on exhaust note.
Neither of y'all rode the 500 up in it's power band. Both y'all were lugging that thing and it still kept up with the 450. 😃
so true. they don't know how to ride a 5hundy. i would have spanked them on every run.
Well they produce most of their power in low rpms sooo
@@Awomman-kp3by you have no clue what u are talking about
Cant really compare when one dude is twice the weight of the other and doesn't know how to ride . I kid guys👍💪🤙✌️
Stfu
@@debrie6319 stfu
That TABLE MUSCLE should have helped him with traction..lol....from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸🤠
lmao i agree
Four strokes overheat in deep sand,mud and high altitude.
I used to be able to buy a whole used two stroke for the cost of a thumper top end overhaul.
I'm light so prefer 250. I honestly couldn't kick a 500 when it's cold after camping or hot when you crash.
Speaking of crashing, before electric start flooded thumpers could go from first to last.
Two strokes are like Lighting the fuse on a skyrocket then it turns into a magic carpet that grants your every wish.
Four strokes are like a very good race car that got cut in half lengthwise.
That oem silencer is a hp killer on CR. Try a 86 cr. Fastest of my crs. Only my kx gets it on top
That's the first CR 500 I have seen with a narrow Powerband. They will pull skat-trak viper 10 paddle easily. Fastest in 3 counties
Compared to a 4 stroke they do
@@dv6426ca nope.
cr500 has a huge power band. and a top end that will make most riders quiver with fear.
@@mikehayes2975 absolutely. I have a 94 cr500, I went riding with a guy who's 450 was supposed to stomp my 500. It didn't. He wasn't to appreciative of the dunlop mx12 I had on the rear. He said it was chunking boulders at him
My cr 500 easily pulls a 12 skat trak
To be fair you would need a old school CR500 rider/owner to go against the 450 cuz neither one had enough experience to ride the snot out of the 500.
Good point!
100% comes down to rider ability and knowing how to ride the 500. I have had a kx500 since new from 2004 and they do not have a narrow power band. They produce plenty of power and torque all through the revs. If you can't beat a 450 in a straight line there is something very wrong. I have never had a 450 get in front of my 500.
450 is scientifically faster but whatever u say bud
2 stroke for life !
The 3 stage power valve is what gives that kx500 a good power band
World of difference between a cr and a kx
@@Wreckhouse69 Wrong the 500 has a higher top speed but the 450 is faster on a track, bud !!
Anybody can go fast on a 450 . The big bore 2 stroke separates the men from the boys only a certain type of person able to push its limits .
I've met plenty of guys who are slow on 450s but I smell what your stepping in
100%
The guy in the black shifts without letting of the gas and that makes a deference.
If you're racing that's the only way to shift.
that's how you're supposed to shift a 2-stroke
@@Corteum I disagree with that. It's not that good for your clutch and gearbox. It's common in moto and supercross because they have top class parts on their bikes and need to use it to clear a jump or to pass someone.
Power shifting much faster that's what I loved about the 125 class but don't try it with the family car
@@LittleLifeJ I've always rode 2-strokes that way, since 85cc up. I don't think I know anyone who does it any other way. And those who do aren't doing it I guarantee you are not winning races.
You hit the nail on the head. The 450 is easier to ride due to the wider torque band. It pains me to say that because I rode a CR500 during the glory days before they dropped the class in the Nationals and thought my bike (modified) was the most powerful thing I ever rode. Riding some 30 years later I will have to admit that at the end of the day I am less fatigued on a 450.
What a great shootout with surprising results. Two Strokes forever!
Hard to call... the 450 is probably going to be faster time was for 99% of the riders... way more forgiving, more even power spread across the band, especially low down means slightly less than perfect gear changes wont be as devastating on lap times. I'd probably still want to ride the 500 though as its 2 stroke and has that sound and smell you just don't get from a 4 stroke. Probably a handful of very skilled 2 stroke riders on a suitable circuit would be able to take full advantage of the extra grunt of the 500 and beat the 450 but as much as i dont want to write if I were doing anything serious i'd ride the 450.
Great video. Had a 1991 and 1995 KX500 the the motor is a monster! Like the wt of the 2 stroke but like the usable power on the 4 stroke. Smile factor, 2 stroke for sure.
I had a 86, 91,93 Kx 500. Bunch of crs over the years. The Kx was night and day quicker than the Hondas. Wish I never parted with my 91
fastest dirt bike i ever rode was total trick 2012 450r...i never rode in sand tho...MAN!!!! FRIGHTENING ACCELERATION !! VETTES DONT STAND A CHANCE...i got no self control when i ride that beast and never dreamed id hit top speed on it !!! great video yall
Awesome video. Now we need to do the same test between a YZF450 vs YZ250.
More like a YZ250 vs YZ250F , even the "new" YZ250 is technology from 2006 while the 4 strokes advance every year and thr YZ250 will still smoke it
Some internal massaging, updated electronics, update carb. or EFI and the 500 would in a league of it's own. Modern 450's however do rock and roll, no questions about it.
So the 500 2stroke is basically a 450 4stroke. This makes it very apparent that the AMA rule is unfair about making you race in the 450 class if you want to ride a 250 2stroke
No, this is just old tech vs new tech. A 250f and a 125 of the same year, made for the same performance level, are roughly the same in power.
@@justletmecomment6453 modern 250fs are making 40hp an up now. Yea the ktm 125s are making around 37hp but the *power is really peaky compared to the more tame an useable yz125s 34 hp stock. A considerable difference either way and the 250 2t have way more peak power than the 250fs. Maybe a 150 2t would work
On the other end the 450s and the 20 year old 500 motors are more comparable and would be alot more competitive
It comes down to what makes you happier, being on the more optimized, efficient machine or the more reckless rip-your-arms-off machine
They should have taken them to the track and let the timer do the recording 😆
The new 450s are pretty crazy fast. The cr500 engine is 30 years old. Technology has grown a lot in 30 years. Good comparison video. I would have thought the 500 in sand would be way faster just because it has more horsepower.
No, it doesn't lol. Modern 450s make more than 500s
cr all day long lighter no valves to bend .ive ridden a mates 450 i had it pined in 5th when i gave it back it wouldn't start.
probably your fault not the bikes
@@keygan9674 cause he had a mx bike pinned?
Yes, but which is the best commuter bike?
Gearing can change things around. Wicked test Madman 🇦🇺🤠🦘
It all depends on the total weight and other variables when riding on sand.the bike has to plain on the surface of the sand,in the 80's I don't think there was a 4 stroke that was light enough or powerful enough to ride on very soft sand, with the exception of maybe the xr honda, but now all the 4 strokes are light enough and powerful enough to match a good 2 stroke. there were very few water cooled 4 strokes in the 80's they were all air cooled and really couldn't handle the demands of being on sand.
this is a good experiment I'm sure lots of people would be curious,thanx for producing this for us, I'm sure u enjoyed it I know I would.
The 500 needs a rider mod😂
I desert race CR 500 for 12 years. My bike was modified by me and made 96 horsepower at the wheel. Top speed of a 138 miles per hour. And set up for drag racing it ran quarter mile in 9.08 sec. at 145 mph on alcohol.
On a track the new 450 would smoke it. I love em both tho.
Yeah I’d take a 250 2 stroke on the track than the 500
@@shockadellick but she is still hot though 2 strokes are awesome
The 450 doesn’t have more torque that’s a lie lol
@@shockadellick the 30 year old is still hot tho
@@shockadellick mbmb 2t r still awesome in my opion
Now that was an awesome video for sure keep them coming 👍👍
I'm surprised how close it was. I figured a 450 would win on a track but get whipped on the dunes. Honestly, the fact that the 500 is even competitive is impressive since it's basically 80's technology. Well, the engine anyway.
Yup. Modern 450s are more efficient and more powerful than the 500 2 strokes. No surprise there (although some people are clueless and think otherwise)
@@StrykerV8 i think the 500's still make more peak power (barely) but 450's average more throughout their power curve.
@@Lucas12v they don't, actually. Even at peak the crf450 makes 3-5 more hp than the cr500 (57 at the wheel vs 52 at the wheel)
@@StrykerV8 i didn't realize the 450's had gotten quite that high yet. I'm still riding a 2013 lol.
@jared3300 no it doesn't because you made that up to lie on the internet
Yall need to do a showdown between the honda 450 and the kx500 I think the results would be way different don't get me wrong I'm a huge honda fan but those kawasakis were a way different machine power wise
I am a 4 stroke guy but man I love 2 strokes and my dream 2 stroke is a mint 87cr250 and 2007 cr250
The 2007 was a horrible year for honda. That frame was pure shit it's first year
@@dormantmenace Perhaps you're thinking of the '97? The 2007 was the last year they were made.
@@davidarnold5197 that dude needs to learn his Honda’s 😉
@@jamesshaver7977 my thoughts exactly! Unless he wants the 07 because it's the last year for Honda's 🚬 smoking section....lol. sad day's...from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸🤠
Just picked up my first CR500, it is a 2006 CR500AF and man what an incredible bike!! I like it better then my brand new built KX450! I don’t see myself ever getting rid of the 500 now that I have it because my KX feels like riding a Sherman tank compared to the AF… can’t beat the torque of the big bore 2 stroke!
Let's look at it this way, the CR500 engine had its horsepower peak in 86 and afterwards they built em more tame. I always think people have to look at the four strokes from that time to actually see how much of a dinosaur we are looking at here, agewise.... so still a more than respectable result.
There was really NO water cooled 4 strokes in 86, besides road bikes.
@@gogogeedus though to be fair water-cooling is not necessary for high horsepower application, per say. but yes you are absolutely right.
Power from the two-stroke is definitely better but for usable linear power it just can't compete with a 450 four stroke
My dad used to ALWAYS take off on his 500s in 2nd. Too much spin in 1st and it runs out too fast
You mean like anything thats a 250f or bigger?😂
How much for the 5hundo? I got RM Cash burnin a hole in my pocket
2 stroke does sound really really good xD
Good video! Both bikes are beautiful and I agree, their is something about a 2 stroke no matter the size, they are awesomely fun to ride!!! 👌
One also has traction and launch control. And the other is old technology. But 2 stroke forever.
So im not trying to make any assumptions, but I'm very much assuming that the 500 guy doesn't have too much seat time on a 2 stroke🤣 I would love to see some elite riders go head to head on these! Great vid
CR 500 are just fun to ride.
I rebuilt a 1991 CR500 but sold it 7 years ago and I still regret selling that bike.
Long live the 2stroke
The loser of this battle
@@shockadellick you must not ride much.I routinely walk away from new 4strokes on a 01 banshee or 04 sx250.I sound better,cheaper to fix and since I work on them for a living also pay my bills on their 4digit rebuilds.nice try😎
You just KNOW that somewhere there is a Honda mad scientist who has kept up the technology over the years on the 2 stroke. And you KNOW its a BEAST!!!!
There is a mad scientist! He is just living at KTM, BETA, and a few other place's...lol...a guy in Canada makes a counterbalanced 500 with reed's and variable porting like a Kx or any snowmobile engine... I'm so hard-up for a smoker I'm lQQking at the GPX TSE250-300r from 🇨🇳China...from Wyoming USA 🇺🇸🤠
Great comparison! Ask J McGrath to help out next time:).
Put 30+ years of research and design into that cr500 motor, transmission , and carborator and see what happens. My understanding from guys who used to ride cr500 is after 1986 they reduced the power on it for some reason. I've heard cause it was just too powerful and the power made it hard to ride/controll. I have ridden a 1989 cr500 and it was not in great shape. The bike was scary fast and with the old bike tech, suspension, and design it really was only good at climbing big hills and drag racing. I ride a 1998 cr250 now and it's plenty fast/has enough power. The 4 strokes have come along way since 2000s and have a broad useable power band but, you just can't beat the way 2strokrs powerband and power delivery feels when riding. 2strokes will always have you with a grin after taking a ride. Keep the 4strokes and revive the 2strokes with current technology and it's a win for every type/ style rider.
Had an 87 CR500 as an eastern woods ride for twenty years (last ten in Commiefornia with just a small gearing change) stupidest thing I ever did was sell it
CARBURETOR?!? Fuel injection, baby. With a dozen different maps. Some Honda magic to broaden the powerband, and…or wait: it may need to be broadened out of self-defense from a 90hp beast
@@CorePathway you know what I meant by carborator and how the fuel is injected. But hey new 450 4 strokes have tFI and they cost 10 thousand dollars or more. So I'm betting the company's love it cause they are making more money on every bike sold. My bike was almost 7 K out the door and I got a set of riding gear, which I don't see dealership's doing any more I couldn't even get a helmet or even a pair of $30 riding gloves when buying a new 450 works edition.
Should see a comparison on a track
Judging by your name, I doubt you'd want to see the results lol
@@StrykerV8 If you think two strokes aren't competitive you would be very foolish. Two strokes are lighter and on a track a lighter bike with the same equivalent power to the modern 450s, I think would surprise you which one is better 👍.
@@coloradodirtbike5930 competitive, sure. Better? No. Not unless you can tell me how a peaky engine with a narrow power band is better than a bike with more power and a flat torque curve
@@StrykerV8 go back to wearing tight jeans and listening to 69 in your "daddies" out dated corvette TROLL 😂😂😂
@@coloradodirtbike5930 nice talking to you too. You handled that debate very well
Looks like a great day at work and hell of a time
The 500 wins in every category except ease of use. The 500 is easier and cheaper to own and maintain and 10-20 years from now will still be worth more than the 450. Oh, and if that 450 drops a valve you better have a deep bank account cause 4 strokes are $$ to fix. How often to you see rollers for sale because of the repair costs on the 4 strokes? The 4 strokes are cool if you like them though but I'd take a 2T every time for off road stuff.
Where there a lot of 450 four strokes worth riding when you were young?
This makes me miss my 87 yz250. It loved that side of sand mountain and the fingers. My wr450 is super fun too. But that built 250 at little Sahara was a riot.
Now you guys have to do kx 500 vs kx 450
Jeremy McGrath kinda' already did it. He raced them both back to back in different classes a couple of years ago.
@@davidarnold5197 there's a lot of other videos of crf vs cr as well, no point in not getting more data
I'd like to see a comparison with a new ktm 300Tpi just to see how it hangs with the 450 using reasonably up to date tech. I'd really like to see honda bring us the tech they used on the now ancient CRM 450 dakar bike, with injection and electronic power valve.
Why is there nothing here stating what year the 500 is?
Love the smell of premix in the morning!
Since it’s an af the engine would only matter of its an 85 or 86 that made the most power
Because, as I suspected, this video, like SO many others, is a thinly veiled attempt at push the "4-stroke is better than the 2-stroke" argument. I rode 125 MX and loved it. The two stroke engine is so simple (as in few parts) and is reliable, cheap and powerful. Easy to work on and modify with regular tools.
long gone are the days the 4 strokes needing twice the cc to keep up with the 2 strokes
I know which one would be far more painful when it came time to pay for a rebuild!
Exactly what I was gonna say. Don't need to take out a loan to rebuild the 500.
The 2 stroke Actually put down a lot more torque than the 4 stroke. Wish honda never stopped making them.
Ask McGrath the 500 eats a 450 all day.
He is on a kx with a power valve. The kawai had the better engine. Honda had the better chassis
Lol thats the first ive heard anybody say kawi made better anything... go and compare some numbers for models throughout the years. Kawi is diaria
This comment SCREAMS fanboy
McGrath says he wouldn't take a 500 and line up against a bunch of 450s. 6 and a half minutes into this video. th-cam.com/video/wwOJdRMGA-o/w-d-xo.html
Whew...my 500s power band starts at idle and grunts hard to 6500ish, had to relearn clutching the turns when I switched to the 450. Just tractor out of them on the 500 w/ the front tire hanging. Totally diff experience than these guys had. Maybe that FMF does more than I thought!!
Keep up the good work, great content!
Can't beat the sound of the two banners
I remember the last air-cooled open class two-stroke Rotax built. It had a strange powerband with a lot off the bottom and not so much on top. It looked strange with more fins on top of head. It was right around the time they brought out a four-stroke. A modern 250 2t would make more power now.
Bikes look pretty even and rider is more important than anything.
What I take from this.....its taken them 20 some yrs to catch up in 4 stroke tech with the old king of the hill 500.
As a crf450x owner I love my bike but.....I'd kick it to the curb any day if I had a 500 to ride. The 80s and 90s 2 strokes are what I grew up with.
500af on the mototrack all day
Raced CR500’s starting in 87’ thru mid 2000’s. Have to ask…what were sprocket sizes? It wasn’t mentioned and makes a difference.
Killer content, love this!
That's so cool, let's do another. Me on a 450 vs Travis Pastrana on his 110 at a motocross track to see what bike is better 🤦
Love the 500 AF
I own a CR500AF and a CRF450X with head porting and an R camshaft. I'd put them pretty damn close to one another, especially considering the 500AF weighs 18lbs less than the 450. I was expecting arm ripping power from the 500, but I have to say that after building it this winter, it's not as crazy as everyone makes it out to be.
Believeable, 450’s are stronger really if you were to ride both side by side
I have a cr500 and just bought a 22 YZ450FX The 450 is faster by a little bit
@@michaelpetro9336 I believe it with a newer 450. Mine's an 09. My 500af is in a 2004 250x chassis, so the geometry is identical to the 450x so it's kind of neat riding them back to back cause they feel like the same bike sitting on them, but man are they different
You guys need to to a KTM 450 vs a BRC500. All modern tech. Closest comparison.
Those brc engines are junk
@@SL4US where can I find an example of that.
@@RiderDown181 there are plenty of people on this platform that have had bad experiences with the 500 brc engines
This channel is worlds better than MXA.
There should be a tally on a top end rebuild if one goes south. I'd take the Cr 500 all day long.
Agreed. Except that the 500 is going to need a lot more of them...
@@jameshisself9324 Not really...The pistons on both will last about 50 hrs of hard use on average....but how much does it take to replace them...2 stroke wins....and I averaged 85 hrs on a piston with a CR250 which is more stressed than a 500 , but I'm pretty careful with mine....
And a tally on gas usage, fouled spark plugs, and usable power band
cant wait to see a 2022 crf450r impression and see if they have fixed some of the bogging issues in the mapping!
The sent a map to all the dealers to reflash the 2021 models so I'm sure the 2022 is fixed. - Chase
2 stroke
I love my yz 250 :D 2 stroke forever. Would love to try 500 once.
There is nothing like riding a 500!
Yup!! Almost as powerful as a modern 450
@@StrykerV8 More powerful in terms of peak hp and torque, but the power is far less usable.
@@GyroPyro121212 the power on the 450 is less usable than the 500 2 stroke? That's backwards my guy. The 500 has a very narrow and almost unusable powerband
@@StrykerV8 No. The 500 has less usable power, but makes more peak.
1985 CR500R:
56 RWHP
45 RWTQ
2021 CRF450R:
55 RWHP
35 RWTQ
@@GyroPyro121212 incorrect. Cr500: 52rwhp. 21 crf450r: 57rwhp
th-cam.com/video/63gZTtpnVWI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/dKBrM0zgqFo/w-d-xo.html
it's 80% the rider, 20% the bike. The CR500 demands a rider to be on the game to get power down whereas any modern four stroke is way more forgiving if you get something wrong. The market is crazy for a 500 regardless of condition whereas blown up 450's are a dime a dozen, and the amount of $$$ sunk into four strokes by manufacturers over the last 25 years they'd all be hoping that it is competitive, especially against an 80's non-power valved, vibe shaking CR500 engine. If manufacturers sunk the same amount of coin into 2T development like they have for 4T since 1998 then I imagine we'd see a lot more 2T bikes in racing still.
They fact they are close just shows how hard the factories duped the AMA with the displacement advantage. I think if they evened the playing field with CC's either lowering the 450 to a 350 we might see a higher desire for 2 strokes again. The 125 should also be bumped to a 150 from all manufacturers to keep up with 250s. But the factories wanna sell you that expensive 4 stroke with the expensive maintenance since they cannot exist on pure volume anymore.
I disagree. I think with modern 4 strokes they can keep up with the same displacement 2t. But at the time 4 strokes were ass, and needed the displacement advantage
@@aidanvelthuis1267 the yzfs felt dumpy but we're way faster than the 125 and 250 smokers
The only CR500 I ever rode was stock and had a wider powerband than a lot of small 4-strokes, I assume that thing’s pretty warmed up?
Let Ronnie Mac ride the CR500
He has..
I drag raced a '91 Kawasaki KX500 at Bonneville Raceway back in the 90's. Put a street tire on the rear and geared it tall. Ran a 12.82 at 100.5mph. Not sure what a modern 450 would pull?
I'm all 2 stroke but cr500s priced them self out of the market. I rather buy a new bike for cheaper
Good pt. Me too. I did buy a new '21 YZ450F.
Playing with the big guns means paying the price of admission.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Honestly I'm an old school 2 stroke fan.
Real test is bring what you have and play in my back yard. Any bike or rider make it through blackwater. It's a good bike and a good rider. Honest
Idc if the 450 is newer, better and more reliable but the 500 is just awesome. 2 stroke and so american
Which one is the ticking time bomb, how much to rebuild the 500, how much to rebuild the 450.
Not a very reliable test really, since as the guy admitted at 9:04, the timing difference could've just been due to him hitting the timer a slower. lol
So now. Can we start using the cr 500s in the races now????