Proof That Parts Stores Don’t Diagnose Your Vehicle! (Dodge Caravan Misfire)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ค. 2024
- This video is not intended to call out parts stores. The point is for people to realize that a simple scan of the vehicle with a print out of the most common fixes is not a proper diagnosis. It needs to be looked at by a professional so you don’t waste money on parts. Some parts stores do this to sell parts. Others properly educate their customer to go get it looked at by a shop. This misfiring Dodge Caravan will show you why it’s so important not to trust the scan and print out given at some parts stores. Always test, don’t guess. We hope it helps. Enjoy!
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I’m glad you put a paper floor mat in there. Protection for your shoes….
My friend is a landlord and told me that before he interviews prospective tenants, he asks to see the inside of their cars.
My boss do the same practice.
before hire someone he told me ;
Mario go out side and check the status of his car .😊
some serial killers are very meticulous, but whatever 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@wannabetrucker7475 for as bad of folks they are, serial killers do make good tenets for the most part. Unless they are like dahmer...
Exactly if your car looks like a wild animal lives in it , I wouldn’t rent them Jack they’ll ruin the place!
I always say “i wonder what their homes look like”
Retired Electrician. I used to trouble shoot. That was my bread and butter so to speak.
I enjoy a good mystery. I don't watch videos related to my old career.
But trouble shooting vehicles. I enjoy it. I find these so intriguing.
Thank you.
I have always known that. They are looking to sell parts associated with the trouble code they find in the vehicles ECM. They find a common P0420 and they are off trying to sell a cat or O2 sensors. It is all a gimmick. They use global obd 2 readers and do not drive the vehicle looking at graph's and live data. I get customers all the time that ask me how much do you charge to replace this or that component and I tell them I have to first diagnose the vehicle to verify there complaint. People are walking out of these parts stores with components they do not even need. Thank you Royalty Auto Service. Great video.
Even if they had scanners with live data. They would not know how to interpret the data.
And it's a liability issue too. You don't want the parts store employees driving around with a scanner they don't know how to use or read and get into an accident, do we. 😅😅😅
@@2nickles647 Absolutely not.
Sherwood is in a class with Eric O and Rainman Ray. I'll be so bold as to say he is right up there with Diagnose Dan of Europe. This is a decent good man with scruples, morality and a conscience. We need bunches and bunches more of people of this caliber. There are others on You Tube as a matter of fact Ivan (PHDS) in State College PA is another one.
Sherwood is the kind of guy I would give my keys, my car and a blank check (with a sane budget of course) and say go to it.
I feel like he would determine the problem, tender a plausible and realistic diagnosis and execute a repair based on facts not speculation.
I cannot find the words to commend this fine fellow adequately for his determination and honesty!
That could have been a costly misdiagnosis on the map sensor. Should have unplugged it seem what the signal wire voltage went to. See if it was a pull up or pull down circuit design
Your logic about diagnosis is superior...you made it really understandable and literally solved issue by diagnose it logically.cheers sir
Yes they are normal o2 sensors. They use a bias voltage to check for circuit integrity. The reason trims weren’t moving is because it was in open loop fault
Exactly. Chrysler has been using that 2.5v bias voltage for a long time. I can’t tell you how many jeeps I’ve seen where people put in brand new Bosch oxygen sensors that short the bias voltage and make it run pig rich or not run at all. I wonder if Bosch or any of the parts guys selling those sensors ever figured out that they don’t work correctly in Chrysler vehicles. I had one come in with a truckload of new parts on it trying to solve an issue they created by installing those Bosch sensor. That customer certainly learned the value of paying for a proper diagnosis by a reputable shop that day. They had to have at least a grand tied up in parts including a new PCM before bringing it in 😂
Best advice .. But how to find that “reputable shop ?”
Well if the shop isn’t charging for diag time or if they say something like all their techs diag there own stuff I would be a little leery
Autozone and O'Reilly's are a joke. They hire people who know nothing about cars. Their "diagnosis" always means you need a part, and when they sell you that part they give you repackaged Dorman junk.
I really appreciate your channel and those like it where we learn real diagnosis and repair, and I'm really grateful for Rock Auto where I can get name brand parts 40% lower than the junk at Autozone. Thank you for all you do! Now, I need to get out to the driveway where I properly diagnosed BOTH a bad starter and a horribly corroded cable from the battery to the starter. Thanks to what guys like you have taught me, I did a voltage drop test and found the bad cable, which I believe killed the starter by bringing it too little current, frying the motor/solenoid.
Yeah sorry they didn't hire an automotive technician in at minimum wage. I'm sorry there's not a ASE tech on standby to answer all your dumb little questions because you're too cheap or poor to afford a real mechanic
Nope :
They scanned it then
They give me a print report of the possible causes and go from there.
Mostly they are very accurate.
"They" aren't diagnosing anything, the scan tool and it's software is pointing to possible causes of the issue(s).
I liked rock auto until I got screwed and found out they don't have a customer service. So im like 85 percent happy with them now lol. I had to pay for return shipping and still have no part!
@@Amarillobymorning777Not, it's just a report, with the possible ways to fix problems.
My brother in law had his truck scanned.
Code said fuel pump press sensor failure.
He bought the part.
Drove it to my house to install.
As I was installing the part. He mentioned the truck will just stall/or quit running and then restart.
I hooked up a real scanner, I selected the PIDs to see what the fuel system was doing.
We drove 3 miles, she shut down and restarted. We drove home.
Told him, it a bad fuel pump., not the sensor.
As I was disassembling the bed. He went to get a new pump. By the time he got back. I had the bed raised enough. I installed the new pump and we did a test drive again. No more stalling and old fuel pump sensor installed.
So the report was no where accurate by any means.
I don't believe in the AutoZone so called Diagnostic test. I've seen to many come backs.
It's a two fold issue.
It's the same as going to a shop and ask for a diagnostic test. You pay for their time.
And you called them Technicians.
So, the Parts place guys are Technical also. 😅
I agree, the parts stores hire anyone who knows what a battery does. 😅
The part stores tell the employees how to use the code readers. The report is spit out. They so call train the employees.
You can train your kid how to plug in a code reader and print the reports.
Many customers fall into the trap, stating, I want a diagnostic run on my car. I have a check engine light 🚨.
Many customers don't have a clue on what codes mean, period.
You can talk to a customer what the code reads.
If the customer and the parts person has no clue. It's a very bad situation. The customer ends up being the fall guy. Believing what the employees tells them.
So now. The customer buys the parts. Vehicle still runs like crap.
Is it the parts guy at fault for the customer not fixing their vehicle issues?
Or is it the parts person. ?
Again, the customer wants to buy at a low cost, what is it going to take to fix my vehicles..?
Again, if the customer has no clue on what they are being told what the code means, what is the use to tell the customer?
Unless the parts person is a mechanic and has experience, then sometimes they will ask questions. They may actually get lucky.
I once had a customer ask me, she was having engine miss issues. I told her, before you sink $$$$$ on the car.
Try using fuel injector cleaner. But 5 containers, add I can per fill up.
About a month later she said her car is fixed. No more misfires, no more stumbling, power has come back.
She said she was quote $$$$ to replace her fuel injectors.
Anyway, I'm getting off my horse.
Cheers.
As a general rule NAPA DOES NOT SCAN VEHICLES. They refer them to a local NAPA AutoCare shop. The only thing they test is the battery.
Unlike the other outfits Napa is a franchise.each one is a different owner.they all do things differently.
@@pl5624 actually your not correct. NAPA is a subsidiary of GPC. And while they do have some franchise stores. They have lots of corporately owned stores. Infact, GPC just recently closed a deal to buy back 181 stores in the Midwest. MPEC Motor Parts and Equipment Company. Google it. And a FYI GPC/NAPA is much bigger than you know. 1800+ stores in Europe. REPCO parts in Australia. And just recently bought 32 stores in Spain/Portugal...
Great job, man. I don't do scans,but by some experience I find that most electrical issues are relatively easy to fix if indeed you find the problem. I've got a couple of "parts cars", which are priceless. Thank you once again.Love your videos,very professional,Lester
I’ve seen bad TIPM cause multiple codes but not misfires . Time will tell still watching. Great fix MAP sensor 👊🏻wasn’t thinking that
I always tell customers the parts store doesn't want your car fixed they want to sell you parts. They "diagnose" it saying it needs x, y, and z and if it doesn't fix it you need to buy l, m, n, o, and possibly p all the while your car isn't getting fixed and all they do is make money the entire time.
When you're graphing live data on the Autel you can hit the X magnifying button a few times and get upto 8x the timebase on screen for each graph. You can also set the Y scale which is great for scaling things for more detail. Like a traditional o2 you could set min - max Y to 0V-1V.
Another great video my friend!
That's why we test and not guess.
That was very interesting. You have to know how to read and understand the data you are seeing. Cool that you found what sensor it was finally.
At least you took the job. A lot of shops would reject the car in that condition.
You are the best man! I am watching from Greece and your videos are very useful. Keep doing the same work, love you guys!!!
Great work! True professional!
I am glad to see Autel gave you very good results, I have been using their tools for years now and not disappointed at all, would not change for any other expensive unreliable brand (based on my experiences)………that been said, thanks a lot for sharing your videos.
Thats why we recommend taking it to a professional.
The digital readout is one of my favorite features of the ATS scope and Scanner
Of topic, on your video about the 2002 ford taurus, if you snap the throttle the secondary ignition wave form will shorten the burn time and the end will be just as tall as the beginning KV spike on the cylinder with the dead injector.
Love your videos.
Awesome Work
Very nice diag!
I am diesel mechanic and a truck came in the shop needing a clutch. I noticed a hole in the inside the cab at first I didn’t think nothing of it because the truck was old. But when I went under truck the hole was a toilet so the two brothers didn’t have to stop while driving the truck on the road. It was feces all over the transmission. I told my manager and I refuse the work on the truck. Some people are just disgusting..
Short tern fuel trims weren't moving because you were stuck in open loop. First 2 lines in Gen OBDII, always have to watch for that. At 12:09 1/1, 2/1 O2 is in in volts, they have different bias voltages those, it was stuck at 2.49V. I have the 909, you have to train you finger to scroll on the RH side of the screen, lol.
Hi Sherwood, At the beginning of the initial scan tool data, you were looking for long - and short-term fuel trims. I realize fuel system status on both banks was open loop, That to me would be an indication of data was substitute value for the engine to run. You are right about oxygen sensors, not switching, but why.
Congratulations on almost 100k Sherwood and team. Looking forward to the escan or escope elite giveaway still 😂😅 nice job on video
😬😬
I don’t think those are wideband oxygen sensors on that engine. Being a Chrysler those O2 sensor signals ride on top of a 2.5v bias voltage. You have the PID for the raw information with the bias voltage included and they also give you a pid that is 0-1v so you can see the O2 sensor voltage without that bias voltage included since we’re used to seeing it that way.
Truly appreciate your videos, always looking forward to any new videos you post. I have a scanner but i need to learn what each data stream should read. I have Chevy and a BMW vehicle. Thank you 🧰🔧👍
Very good video brother.
Good tip!
Really enjoy the videos. What I would like to know is where you got the multi tool flashlight holster.? Thanks
Amen bud. good job...ol Auto zone mechanics.
good one! 👍👍
true, last winter neighbor had her check engine light scanned by BIG parts store.she showed me paper that said "coolant temp too low, thermostat faulty".i mentioned it sucked not having heat till nearly at work.she said my heat works great.i asked if it overheats? she said never.turned out temp sensor went bad.computer was "blind" to temp & turned fans on full as a safety measure.replaced 14$ sensor, erased code, all is fine again.theres more to the issue than a code scan many times.im leary when the symptoms dont coincide with the present code.
I have no idea where you are located, but wish you were close enough for me to have you folks service my vehicles.
I bought a scanner almost like yours, and yep, I have no clue how to use most of it, but I did save 300.00 programming 2 keys with it.
Glad you found the search bar. Which Autel are you using, that has the topology map? Thanks for your videos, I always get something out of them.
It’s the Autel MS909. We recommend buying from AESWave where support is offered. This is our affiliate link where you can find it and other products we recommend. We do get commission for things you purchase. Just want you to know that up front. 👍
www.aeswave.com/RoyaltyAuto
Would love to see a video using the ATS IEA
What an amazing diag. Thanks for sharing the fix
The old saying is test don’t guess. Sherwood excellent presentation. Question how many entry level techs have a good understanding of basic electronics? Also you don’t seem too fond of the Chrysler 3.6 liter engine?
I could have sworn injector #3 showed zero data when you were scrolling past the injector data, I thought for sure the injector was going to be one of the issues.
It’s crazy how much that MAP sensor controls. I know my diesel I put a new tranny in it, a couple weeks later I lost power again so thought maybe my torque converter went for some reason. Did some research and pulled my MAP sensor, cleaned it (it was sutted right up) and boom fixed my issues, normal fuel pressures again and normal power.
If you pause the video at 12:12 while paging the PIDS prior to repair it looks like the fuel system was never going into CL per PID front 02s fuel feedback value = OPEN. Map sensor circuit code never allowing CL prior to repair?
Thats weird though if that was the case, you would think the PCM would throw away the MAP data and run on an OL mapping. Yet it was misfiring. I wonder if that car would run with that sensor unplugged.
@@greg7886I didn't understand why it would be misfiring at idle either in OL. It was also weird that it would report the O2 voltage for one sensor and not the other, but maybe that's a Chrysler thing when it's in OL?
Can you please show us in future video's how to hook up the scope and I still find it hard to understand the difference between AC and DC sensors/signals, so maybe also explain that. Thanks
I’m surprised you didn’t look at MAP pressure key on engine off or did you? I’d be curious to know what that number was. Nice video !
Its tough getting used to new scanners !
Prior to the new MAP, Could it have been in CL, due to the MAP circuit code? Unfortunately, you did not show loop status during the testing pid list. If it was in CL, that could account for those anomalies in trims and O2 sensor readings prior to repair. I know some cars will go on CL if any issue with MAF or MAP since they are so critical to A/F ratio.
Chrysler 3.6L pentastar uses narrowband sensors that are biased from 2.5V-3.5V. You are correct that the number you are seeing is made up, however they are not wideband sensors, they use 2.5V to 3.5V to bring them up off ground to prevent noise from all the other electronics. Your data PID's will include both this raw data (2.5V - 3.5V) and filtered data (0V - 1V). Chrysler is pretty behind the times, they haven't adpoted wideband sensors except for their multiair engines.
Well, at least replacing narrowband sensors isn't as expensive as wideband. Wideband A/F sensors are typically twice as expensive as the narrowband.
Parts stores sell part off the scans but many service centers are not good at diagnosing and they charge a lot for the misdiagnosis. The parts store diagnosis mistakes are less costly than the bad service diags. Many times the parts store diags and parts sales fix the problem. The customer is just being diligent and looking out for themselves. If they had a reliable service center, I’m pretty sure they would go there instead. .
The cheapskate scan at the parts store, if foolish enough to believe it is actually a diagnostic, uses probability based on mechanic input. Mechanics report that changing the O2 solved the problem 9/10 times, so the scan report suggests an O2. Buying parts based on that report is rolling the dice, but as you said, so is going to some shops a more expensive gamble.
new subscriber here. I wish I had your videos available years ago! what is your tablet diagnostic tool? do you have a link to it? That seems a million times better than the code reader I have now.
It’s the Autel MS909. We recommend buying from AESWave where support is offered. This is our affiliate link where you can find it and other products we recommend. We do get commission for things you purchase. Just want you to know that up front. 👍
www.aeswave.com/RoyaltyAuto
I think you covered it before, But where do you get your fender covers
First of all If you have a check engine light on it is good to know if it is critical like a cam sensor. Auto parts stores serve a purpose for that with out costing you a dime. Dealerships will charge a fee for the same service. You must know that a code reader is just that a basic understanding of a trouble code. A misfire code could be related to a half dozen items. So selling a coil pack is a shot in the dark. I have dealt with this for years. I steer people to the internet after giving them the codes. Blogs and youtube can help save people a lot of money which is the bottom line for a DIYer. For those that have no knowledge I steer them to a mechanic.
Did you reset the TDC’s? Sometimes the code turns off sensors so they look like they are good.
Not many realize that trouble codes are only a starting point not the part that is at question ! This is were the phrase firing the parts cannon at it originated !
You prefer kpa instead inhg for the map? I was burning my brain making calculations LOL
I had a 2016 Cruz, w/ map, lean and maf codes.
Found stft and ltft stuck at 0, no matter what I did. did tickle it w/ some propane.
Went generic...same.
Used a different brand scan tool...same.
Ready? It was locked until I cleared the codes. Pegged positive but didn't reflect on data until codes cleared.
Wound up being a vc (pcv on top-propane confirmed leak).
They are narrow O2 sensors worked on many of those vans.
u gotta love love the parts store parts cannon
The comments on this post are completely different from the ones on TikTok where you talk about charging for diagnosis.
Autel pip graphing (I have several autel scanners including ultra) is terrible to say the least. It is way too slow and misses things. That is one thing that snap-on does much better then most scantools and certainly any of the Chinese ones.
Thank you for stating this.
It is but I hate snap on’s newer scan tool platform. I rarely touch the triton d10. Launch has pretty good graphing capabilities also. Their graphing is VERY responsive.
@Jpilgrim30 I have a D10 and love it! I am interested in an ATS elite scan or an autel just to have different capability. Just need $ lol
@@patrioticimmigrant8817 go with the autel ultra. Eventually that d10 will need to be replaced so you can do upgrade, surprised that it is still working, I have one and need to fix it.
No the oxygen sensors you have there are the normal cheap sensors that oscillate up and down, like what you have there. Wide band sensors, also referred to as Air Fuel Ratio sensors don't oscillate up and down they go strait across using a 1 volt reference line and work on a Lamda data pid. These sensors are only used in the upstream position and are mostly used on foreign cars, I don't know for sure if and when Chrysler ever used them but they usually cost 2-3 times more then regular sensors. The parts store can tell you which one it is just by the price.
Yeah it's those vehicles u get the new guy to pull in and rack up forya
The part store isn't going to make much money just selling a MAP sensor.
Backyard mechanic way, MAP sensor code? Engine running, unplug the MAP sensor, car stays running, that's your problem. If it dies the MAP is most likely working, then grab the PICO out and further diag. Simple.
I was going to suggest Eric O., but I couldn't find him using the search function in a video.
Sherwood, what model Autel scanner are you using in this video?
It’s the Autel MS909. We recommend buying from AESWave where support is offered. This is our affiliate link where you can find it and other products we recommend. We do get commission for things you purchase. Just want you to know that up front. 👍
www.aeswave.com/RoyaltyAuto
Surprised it did not have a blown Johnson rod
P0456 on late model Caravans are almost always a bad ESIM.
👍👍
Looks like wix filters on the shelf in the back and not napa
My dad's friend has a Chevy Silverado and one time he was driving and all of the sudden he got a flashing engine light on he said. He took it to the auto parts store and they said it needed a O2 sensor that cost $80. Luckly, he said no and will have my dad and I hook it up to our scan tool. So anyways, this is when I heard about it and I said sure, I can put my scan tool on it. So I get there and the thing is misfiring, I can feel it. So I said, well first of all, you have a misfire problem, an O2 sensor being faulty is not going to fix that. I pulled the codes with my expensive scan tool, sure enough there was the O2 fault that the parts store saw, but no misfire code. I pulled the misfire data and it showed heavy misfire on cylinder 3. So I said, lets swap the spark plug between 2 and 3, misfire cylinder switched to 2. So he replaced the spark plug and the flashing engine light went away and just was a solid engine light now because of the O2 sensor code. Parts store people should have been able to just feel the vehicle and know its misfiring without needing a scan tool to tell you that and that an O2 sensor is not going to cause a misfire, especially on a single cylinder.
Parts stores should be referring the work to a auto shop for proper diagnosis.
The fact is, customer don't have a clue what a code means nor does the parts guy technician 😅😅😅
I sure can see how it can be so easy to go down that perverbal rabbit hole and start throwing parts like most diyers would do
I herd you say back surgery.
My back was hurt for almost two decades, I had surgery in November 2019. I was recovering and rehab for almost 1 1/2 years, but now I can bend with no pain, I can run with no back pain and I have lost 38 lbs.
That’s awesome! Keep going and praying for more recovery!
After 45 years I retired from the automotive service business. Got bored after about 9 months so went to Auto Zone for a part time job. All they care about is selling parts. Everything is set up like a retail store. When I interviewed they were all excited about my experiance. Once I went to work there they wouldn't let me use any of it.
I don’t believe you.
Your DNA is to help and repair.
if a customer walk in and you scan the vehicle I’m pretty sure you give your wise advice 😊
@@Amarillobymorning777 The store manager told me that if I advised a customer differently than what their system said I would be fired so I quit!
@@jdgimpa 🎉🙏
Nice job.
I'm not done watching, but you never reach closed loop
Fuel strategy needs MAP and oxygen sensors
Yeah man if I hear how much is it to replace the oxygen sensor. Because they got a 171. OMG bruh plz
What scanner is this?
It’s the Autel MS909. We recommend buying from AESWave where support is offered. This is our affiliate link where you can find it and other products we recommend. We do get commission for things you purchase. Just want you to know that up front. 👍
www.aeswave.com/RoyaltyAuto
Narrow band
haven't finished the video yet but injector 3 pulse width was 0
it was zero a few times when you scanned by it. might be nothing. My TEXA tool sometimes reads 0 on some PIDS when scrolling through the list. It went to zero @ 11:37 after you said it got worse.
not wideband
📷 man, thank you 🎥 great
👍
SHARP, Royalty Auto Service
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 21:32PM Good Evening
Greetings from North Texas
At
Memorial Day weekend 2024
5:25 pm
5/26/24🎉
lol the ol 20$ pocket code reader… if they paid money for a real scan tool and knew how to read data and use the functions properly they could of had half a chance to throw the parts cannon at it and get it right. But I will commend them for not having a clue and then throwing all the parts at it lol. If it was a coil in the first place it wouldn’t have had a 0300 code it would have been cylinder specific. Sorry mister lube tech turned parts store employee
You all should really clean your lens
Hey TH-cam mechanic dude, how much do you pay your camera man?
We aren’t professionals cameramen. Just doing the best we can. Most of our stuff is with an iPhone. But go ahead with whatever you have to say and get it out of your system. Lol
Today's word: Decaf
It sounds like it needs a cam and rockers.
Yup most 3.6 pentastars will eventually
@@sheerwillsurvival2064 Yes, indeed they do, all that other data he’s looking at is worthless until he pulls that valve cover to inspect.
@@jerrykurl69 the ticking goes away so people think oh it’s ok but the roller is destroying the cam
@@sheerwillsurvival2064 yes the roller locks up or busts off, the ticking goes away but now you’re taking that repair to another level and the very real possibility of a new engine.
Its always pissed me off that people don't clean their shit out before they bring it in and have it worked on! And many times a fellar is stuck working under the dash or something. No common sense in this world it seems. Have some respect customers!!!
2:20 "I'm not poking fun"
You were 100% poking fun.
Why lie about it to yourself?
Bad take from a service business.
You don't make yourself look good by making others look bad. This is like the politics of ass kissers/back stabbers in the corporate world.
A different approach might have a totally different outcome.
Anyone with any common sense knows a code reader is perfect recipe for a parts cannon dealer or a diyer.
Yet, the first thing you do for diagnosing is break out the high dollar scanner.
Keep crying
@@thesmartguy3523 Not crying smarty pants
Just trying to give some food for thought (potential improvement/corrective criticism).
Just saying great video doesn't help much other than boost ego...which sounds like you have a big one
@@ImNotHereToArgueFacts okay keep crying
No shit, Sherlock. How the hell else would they read the DTC and look at pertinent data? They're called tools of the trade. You types of people are funny always coming with that.
@@Charlie-dv7ev Why compare a code reader to a scanner, Einstein? Use your general relativity. The parts store is just looking at possible related parts. Of course they want to sell you parts. I had a mechanic take an alternator to a parts store to test it. It tested good, but he wanted to replace it anyway.
Refuse the car till its cleaned out, that craps digusting