@@coryontheroad5459 actually they probably aren’t any smarter. They just do different things. You cannot manufacture engines to the tight tolerance that you can by custom builds. The engineers at Harley have to find the happy medium of what can be assembled in a assembly line and still work. Custom builds go way beyond that. Custom builds also have no emission laws to deal with either. While I agree with you that Harley could do a better job with the seemingly loose tolerance bikes they release to the consumer, I do understand they have a fine line to balance.
Best part is THEY allow you to film means they have NOTHING to hide ..while you document the build...zippers has always been AHEAD of the curve....I don't know cost wise but how would their 124 sleeper compare to HD 131 crate motor?...MAKES one think if the 131 crate motor has same issues since its factory built...oh boy
Tall these videos are a wealth of information for people considering a M8 build, all the people at Zippers are detail oriented and will steer you towards a awesome end result, I know from my experience with them. Keep up the good work.
I have not owned a bike for about 15 years but found this video very informative. I like how open they were in letting you shoot the process why they explained what they were doing and why they were doing it a certain way. Great job at videoing the process.
Buy your new Harley, run it a while, then take it to your HD dealer to have all the “ Improvements “ Better quality parts “ and “ Checks “ done. Never had any of that with Japanese M/c’s..
Amazing these guys let you film this. I LOVE watching true professionals work and explain stuff like this. Also absolutely RIDICULOUS that there were so many things wrong/out of spec with a brand new 10k mile bike. I mean that shouldn't even hardly be considered broken in.
Great guys to do the job. HD has competitors on their heels. As a company they need to step up their game. Screws not tightened to spec on key components, etc. They will continue to drop customers.
Bruh... That’s A Lot of Information. I know you’re pleased with the clarity they provided about your Bike! Congratulations on the 124ci sleeper kit... After listening to them it almost sounds like a necessity.
@@jay0863 Hey Jay, I also have an 18 RG, I will be installing a Zipper's 124 Muscle kit, definitely checking the items that the techs are talking about!
Bobby and his torque wrench...never gets tired. The other thing that never gets old is finding all the Q&A issues on HDs. Trust but verify. I really wish we had an extensive baseline from the day of purchase. HD will claim, "This is normal on a 10K engine." But Tall had issues with blow back, sumping, and oil deposits over the life of the bike! I like the tittle on episode 3, "Better than new!" 🦅of a 🪶 🪨 2-gether 2020 Fat Boy (Wood 22XE) USN, Ret.
good video thank-you for adding; i love the sound, the dealership network, culture, not a fan of the prices, their sears catalog of options, also repairs.. I think I'll stay with my zero problems 32k miles later on my Triumph. Places like zippers- how many shops across the country are in business just from repairing HD's horrible Quality Control
I am terribly shocked... It's a 2019 and the oilers are still loose! Because that failure was discovered 2 years by indy builders but the MoCo still goes on and assembles the motors with the same mistakes. I have nothing to add your honor...
Amazing to watch and listen to those guys but gotta say it does leave me feeling worried for my new Softail Low Rider what with loose oilers and bending rodes!
Trust me, one wrong word from these guys and they lose the dealership. Wouldnt put tog much trust in experts talking about major problems like its normal maintenance.
Mr. Tall ,CVO's exceed $40000 and you made some fine videos test riding them. You also made a what's right video about HD. Well , this episode demonstrates what is wrong with HD. While the M8 design may be the motor companies best besides the VROD, the quality is a good reason why HD is failing. Thanks for your postings , you do a fine job and special thanks to Zippers for being so candid!!
VictorDR01 I went stage 3 and then had all kinds of problems with out of round cylinders and spark knock and blow by. Now it has an S&S 124 kit in it. Runs great. I should of went with the 124 from the start. It would of saved me 5 grand !
I did the 114 Stage IV on my RG when I bought it last year, mostly due to it still being covered under the HD warranty. Now wishing I had just done the Zippers kit.
Awesome build, looks like a fun project. But to address some of the negative comments below, you can take any stock production engine form any make/manufacturer and find many tolerances and specs can be improved with precision performance kits. That's why they exist. Tall's 107 was typical of any and all engines and would have most likely provided many years and miles of dependable service.
Agreed. Lots of folks here talking about how great their bikes run with no issues, but they haven’t actually stripped down the motor to verify. Ignorance is bliss to them. I’ve had Japanese bikes before and most have their own issues-mainly because you are spending $10,000 on flimsy plastic crap that breaks all the time. I have a 2018 softail deluxe with 21,000 miles on it and no issues, and 95% of it is made of steel and will last for ever. Each to their own I guess.
at least 90% if not more. I wish they would have shown how oily the throttle body and entire intake manifold was like every HD I've worked on. It would be great if a proper crankcase ventilation system could be installed easily.
I have to say, all that money for that extreme upgrade and problems??? Too much time in the shop. This makes me even more happy I ride Indian, 73,000 miles on my 2017 Roadmaster, no engine issues, just a stage 1 on my Indian. extreme mods always affects HD reliability . I sincerely hope you get it worked out brother and get back on the road.. I can't even imagine how much you've spent on this bike.
Tell me, what's the name of the British motorcycle company that's going out of business after just being resurrected? Norton? Obviously no problems there.
that's what the 7 year warranty is for lol. Spend another 2K for the warranty. Then your bike goes in the shop for 5 months for repairs while you're making payments on it.
Did u change out the oil pump and cam plate for S&S or Fueling? Or did you go with your stock ones which is fine. I haven’t seen all the vids so if it is addressed already sorry .
The same ones who thought that removing the Timkin bearings from the drive side of the engine was a brilliant idea from the Twin cam's and Milwaukee 8 engines 🤣
I have a leak down tester my self been using it since 1980 very useful information from that tool. A compression tester will tell you if it has compression a leak down to tester will tell you where the leak is and how big it is.
Porsche, they've been doing the engineering on Harley's engines for decades now, their collaboration started in 1976 when Harley contracted them to design an engine for a new model of bike called the Nova, before it was completed a new CEO took over at AMF in 1979 and one day not long after he was going over the books and ask "Why are cutting these large checks to Porsche?", when he was informed it was a project for Harley Davidson he said "Cancel it immediately", but it got Harley into bed with Porsche and that's how their engineering for their engine's got straightened out. They only do engine developments for them, the 5 speed rubber mount frame was designed by Eric Buell when he worked for the company in the late 70's. And the Soft Tail frame was designed by a guy in St Louis in his garage, he was an engineer for General Motors who had injured his back, he owned a Panhead hardtail and wanted to keep riding it so he designed a hidden rear suspension for it, Harley agents at a bike event saw it and purchased it and then sent it back to the factory in Milwaukee and it was reverse engineered.
Well I have a new CVO Limited and I only hope that they took more time to put the 117 engine together then the 114 and 107 engines. But they probably didn’t. Now I’m nervous in the service 😳
12% leak down is spec? Hmmm. I also have to wonder how much of the "oil deposits" on the pistons is due to the oil mist in the breathers, as opposed to the 2mm oil ring.
Haha. Exactly how does the breather air get into the combustion chamber? Past the oil rings or valve seals. Breather air is the air that is on the bottom side of the oil ring. The oil ring is what keeps the crankcase air mist from the combustion chamber. Understand yet? ALL crankcase breather air has oil mist in it because of the violent action of the flywheel spinning. 12 percent is fine BTW. Investigate at 20 percent.
Title said problems..No real problems Tall. Remember you came into this build with 10k miles and no problems. Yes you were putting small amount of oil in at various intervals but overall your team here caught the issue before it became serious and it’s getting addressed by competent performance technicians. As well, they’re doing a great job of keeping you in the loop by showing you up close what’s going on. Reputable shops do this and why they stay reputable. Look’n good so far T.
No real problems? You're kidding, surely. Parts not torqued to spec, loose fitting gears that drive your cam chain, burning oil because Moco doesn't want to use a decent ring set... These are just a few of the problems. The m8 is a great motor, but Moco isn't doing them justice, especially for what they are going for.
Nawwww, you shouldn't be nervous as long as you are willing to take out a second mortgage on your house and rent out your wife and kids for slave labour on the weekends............ A $30,000.00 bike and it needs work after one season and 9,000 miles. Tell me, would you buy a car that needed that kind of servicing?
Just don't get a Milwaukee 8. I've had my 103 for about 10 years no issues do all the maintenance myself. if y'all really want horsepower go metric if not Indian or Harley for that torque. Its really up to you as a rider and what you want. Because if you can't turn around and smile at the bike you have while walking away you got the wrong bike...
That carbón build up on the pistons may be caused by the "fume" returns on the air filter, due to epa regulations they return those fumes and oil back to the pistons causing build up. But hey changing pistón rings make more profit right? Another clue for this is that they did a comprensión check and came out great.
Pretty amazing to me to read all these comments... Got a ‘15 FLHXS with a 103” air cooled motor, with close to 50k on the odometer. Oil changes (all 3 holes) every 5K miles, brake fluid flushed every 2 years (just like asian bikes recommend), tires replaced after 10-12K miles, brake pads changed as needed. It ran just fine when it was OEM stock for the first 8K miles and then like any H-D owner... “NEED A LITTLE MO POWER” Just part of the motorcycle world... Stage 2 is ALL I need (Dynotuned at 94HP/114TQ by an Indy shop dynomometer “master”). Didn’t buy a H-D touring model (although pretty sporty on The Dragon) to run at triple digits while doing wheelies down the interstate with a t-shirt, shorts and sandals. It’s a really fine machine when taken care of. Yes, it’s air cooled, and runs as good, or better than the day I rode away from the dealer. It’ll run 122 at the top and run a pretty good 1/4 mile for a “tractor”. I’ve got a YAMAHA MT-10 for when this old geezer gets hooligan-ish. These issues mentioned by Tall happen, but they’re NOT THE NORM. I’ll admit that the new M-8 “appears” to be more of a problem child than the old twin cam motors, but Harley ain’t leaving the world over this. Harley’s ARE EXPENSIVE! No doubt about it. If ya’ can’t afford one, then that’s just the way it is. I’d like to have a citation jet, but I can’t afford one yet. That’s just the way life works. Just buy what you can afford and be happy. Take care of it. JUST RIDE.
Long stroke necessitates short piston skirts. That is slightly variable depending on pin location and rod length. The skirts are short to clear the counterweight of the crank. The pin hole is not real adjustable on a short piston. Varying rod length is another part of the equation but that is limited by deck (barrel) height and rod angle of deflection comes into play. It's technical but also interesting. At least i find it is so i read articles on whatever I am building to gain knowledge. It has served me well but i have not stroked an engine so far either. I do know that skirt length, pin location, heat expansion, piston to wall clearance and rod length are all factors. Short pistons in a bore clearanced to avoid seizure led to a lot of clattery small block Chevys in the early to mid 60's before hyperutectic coatings and all the research into engine building and solving issues.
How many miles are on this bike? Is this the brand new bike you just got? If so, why didn't you take it to the dealer so they could do this on a warranty?
The disappointing look in your face before you left and went back to the hotel pretty much sums it up for me. I can really appreciate the zippers team going above and beyond to explain everything to you. I hope they will provide that same service to each and every customer that comes through their doors and not just to you because you are filming. If this is their standard practice I would definitely drop a mortgage payment in their facility.
In the first video Zippers put a comment for kit price without labor. IIRC it was 6700 and change for the exact components in TT's bike. Installation for labor is extra. Hopefully i was close, but you could definitely reach out to Zippers for a full list price for your planned build.
My local Stealership offers a lifetime warranty on the engine if you were to buy a new motorcycle from them. Probably need it after watching this video
Hi Tall, interesting to hear you are in Hanover. I live Hanover, Ontario and have the 2019 SGS, 114ci. Your build is fascinating, especially the issues the techs are pointing out. Oilers loose?? the little chain sprocket loose on the shaft?? the oil deposits on your pistons?? etc. What’s up with all that? Please ask the tech about the breather tube going into the throttle body, can that be part of the problem? I am tempted to re-route the hose to a catch bottle. I just put my SGS to bed for the winter and changes all three holes plus all the service needed for 16,000 km. (I actually only have 13,121km on it since April 19). Beautiful bike, I also have Custom Dynamics all around including the HDI tail light tubes for the Canadian bike.
@Eily Serva hahalol I was thinking the same.rode Hondas all my life 100s of thousands of miles no problems.last 2 bike's roadking nothing but problems.cam chain tensioners compensator sprockets seems like there is allways issues with h.d.that cost big money
I've owned multiple HD's. My 2016 Street Glide Special had nothing but issues. After almost two years of watching it sit in a shop or on a flatbed truck (not to mention the pain of talking to HD about the issues) I traded it for a 2018 Indian Chieftain Classic. My SG only had 5800'ish miles on it. So far I've put (as of this morning) 15,490 miles on the Chieftain. The only issues I've had with it is the stupid key fob batteries not lasting very long. Out the door with the Indian with a stage 1 upgrade was $28k and some change, my 16' SG with the stage 1 was around the same .
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in the comments below but he is failing to mention blow by that is the oil that gets up into your air filter that is really what you're seeing on that piston it is not at all what he's talking about. I have never seen anybody consume oil like he's talking about. It sounds good but it's a bunch of malarkey sorry to be so brunt about it
I'm just curious to know if you had just left your bike stock, you would have never experienced these problems. OR Is this a problem with stock M8'$ as well. I don't have this many miles on my bike yet & won't have for at least a couple of more years. I've heard of dry sumping problems another channel owner posted but he too had a stage 2 or 3 put on his 107 street glide. He also had to put MLS gaskets in, to replace the stock ones. The stock ones burnt spotted in one place. His only had 7,000 miles or so on it.
Already having my issues with my ultra limited. Harley told me ride it till it breaks. My mouth hit the floor. That was at 11000. 14000 still has the same noise but getting worse. Who knows maybe a 131 for freeeee.
Can someone tell me how on earth a bike can have leaking rings and be putting out a cylinder pressure number that should equal a 15:1 compression ratio?
Nice I watch a lot of your videos brotha are you gonna change your bars too? I would figure that since you are so tall there short bars would make the bike feel tight
Exactly, tell that to the idiots at HD ... however they wouldn't care. Many are jumping ship & I can't blame them. There's plenty of better, reliable bikes out there for less than what these cost. They need to fire whoever runs the quality dept.
Well heck if it's crap from the factory and all these experienced Harley manufacturing engineers who spent years designing and testing the M8; why buy it and throw away good money? Better to spend the money on a Honda Gold Wing, they are going for the low 20's. I have a factory M8 with 30,000 miles and still running fine.
This video is actually disturbing to me. I have always ridden metric bikes with no failures. I decided to purchase my first Harley Davidson, a 2018 Road Glide 107 M8. All the issues the mechanics found in his new 2019 is very concerning. I never planned to do an engine upgrade I'm ok with the stock 107. Personally I don't think you should spend 30K on a motorcycle then have to do an engine rebuild a year later. I understand adding performance parts, but not a rebuild. This makes me question the quality of my new HD.
Those guys are pro’s. Such intricate detail on everything they do. Sounds like you chose the right guys for the job. 👍
There smarter then engineering at Harley Davidson
@@coryontheroad5459 actually they probably aren’t any smarter. They just do different things. You cannot manufacture engines to the tight tolerance that you can by custom builds. The engineers at Harley have to find the happy medium of what can be assembled in a assembly line and still work. Custom builds go way beyond that. Custom builds also have no emission laws to deal with either. While I agree with you that Harley could do a better job with the seemingly loose tolerance bikes they release to the consumer, I do understand they have a fine line to balance.
Best part is THEY allow you to film means they have NOTHING to hide ..while you document the build...zippers has always been AHEAD of the curve....I don't know cost wise but how would their 124 sleeper compare to HD 131 crate motor?...MAKES one think if the 131 crate motor has same issues since its factory built...oh boy
Tall these videos are a wealth of information for people considering a M8 build, all the people at Zippers are detail oriented and will steer you towards a awesome end result, I know from my experience with them. Keep up the good work.
I have not owned a bike for about 15 years but found this video very informative. I like how open they were in letting you shoot the process why they explained what they were doing and why they were doing it a certain way. Great job at videoing the process.
Zippers thanks for taking care of Tall! This information is so good!!!
Buy your new Harley, run it a while, then take it to your HD dealer to have all the “ Improvements “ Better quality parts “ and “ Checks “ done. Never had any of that with Japanese M/c’s..
LOVED watching Masters simply explaining their craft.
This looks so expensive. So expensive. Thank you for sharing it with us! ✌️👍👍
I'm terrified to ask what the final bill was lol.
You absolutely can't beat this kind of service though. Great job guys.
Amazing these guys let you film this. I LOVE watching true professionals work and explain stuff like this. Also absolutely RIDICULOUS that there were so many things wrong/out of spec with a brand new 10k mile bike. I mean that shouldn't even hardly be considered broken in.
Great guys to do the job. HD has competitors on their heels. As a company they need to step up their game. Screws not tightened to spec on key components, etc. They will continue to drop customers.
This is why I ride a 1995 1200 Sportster cause it’s bulletproof & I ride it pretty hard. 25 yrs old, never had any issues, great bike!
Bruh... That’s A Lot of Information. I know you’re pleased with the clarity they provided about your Bike! Congratulations on the 124ci sleeper kit... After listening to them it almost sounds like a necessity.
Thanks for the info on the M8 motor, I will pass on a new Electra-Glide Standard.
This makes me a bit nervous about my 2018 Road Glide M8 107.
@@jay0863 Hey Jay, I also have an 18 RG, I will be installing a Zipper's 124 Muscle kit, definitely checking the items that the techs are talking about!
Is the end of HD corporation
Jay08 I feel the same way on my 19 road glide. 😒
Bobby and his torque wrench...never gets tired. The other thing that never gets old is finding all the Q&A issues on HDs. Trust but verify. I really wish we had an extensive baseline from the day of purchase. HD will claim, "This is normal on a 10K engine." But Tall had issues with blow back, sumping, and oil deposits over the life of the bike! I like the tittle on episode 3, "Better than new!"
🦅of a 🪶 🪨 2-gether 2020 Fat Boy (Wood 22XE) USN, Ret.
good video thank-you for adding; i love the sound, the dealership network, culture, not a fan of the prices, their sears catalog of options, also repairs.. I think I'll stay with my zero problems 32k miles later on my Triumph. Places like zippers- how many shops across the country are in business just from repairing HD's horrible Quality Control
These guys know their stuff thats forsure.👌 I think i will keep my evo.
Great vid. The crew at zippers is awesome, and I've been talking with them to do a swap to a redshift 465 for my 107.
Wow. That is definitely some useful info to have if hypothetically I ever purchase an M8. Good video.
I am terribly shocked... It's a 2019 and the oilers are still loose! Because that failure was discovered 2 years by indy builders but the MoCo still goes on and assembles the motors with the same mistakes. I have nothing to add your honor...
... 2 years ago...
Really interesting detail here. These guys are such perfectionist. I'm sure it is not cheap but I am sure the quality is outstanding!!
Your bike is in good hands, possibly the best!
Doing my 17 sgs next year this helped a lot,thanks!!
This shop is definitely worth the trip 👍🏻thanks for another great video
Amazing to watch and listen to those guys but gotta say it does leave me feeling worried for my new Softail Low Rider what with loose oilers and bending rodes!
Trust me, one wrong word from these guys and they lose the dealership. Wouldnt put tog much trust in experts talking about major problems like its normal maintenance.
Those guys there are passionate about the details. Way cool.
Omg just give me the entire footage. These continues are killing me!!!
Mr. Tall ,CVO's exceed $40000 and you made some fine videos test riding them. You also made a what's right video about HD. Well , this episode demonstrates what is wrong with HD. While the M8 design may be the motor companies best besides the VROD, the quality is a good reason why HD is failing. Thanks for your postings , you do a fine job and special thanks to Zippers for being so candid!!
Spend $ 30.000 on a new Harley then spend more money just to get it to go down the road .... Nice 👍
Great video TT looking forward to the next one.
Looks great. Almost wish I went this route instead of stage 4.
The route cost double what a stage 4 does however but it’s quality over quantity
@@thatmdguy4557 and I'm sure it makes a lot more power with better reliability
VictorDR01 I went stage 3 and then had all kinds of problems with out of round cylinders and spark knock and blow by. Now it has an S&S 124 kit in it. Runs great. I should of went with the 124 from the start. It would of saved me 5 grand !
I did the 114 Stage IV on my RG when I bought it last year, mostly due to it still being covered under the HD warranty. Now wishing I had just done the Zippers kit.
Awesome build, looks like a fun project. But to address some of the negative comments below, you can take any stock production engine form any make/manufacturer and find many tolerances and specs can be improved with precision performance kits. That's why they exist. Tall's 107 was typical of any and all engines and would have most likely provided many years and miles of dependable service.
Agreed. Lots of folks here talking about how great their bikes run with no issues, but they haven’t actually stripped down the motor to verify. Ignorance is bliss to them. I’ve had Japanese bikes before and most have their own issues-mainly because you are spending $10,000 on flimsy plastic crap that breaks all the time. I have a 2018 softail deluxe with 21,000 miles on it and no issues, and 95% of it is made of steel and will last for ever. Each to their own I guess.
Just got my 2020 softail standard this past saturday Tall. Havnt even put 50 miles on her. I really hope this isnt an issue.
How much of the oil deposits are from the breather tube to the throttle body?
I was thinking the same thing. There was no mention of that.
at least 90% if not more. I wish they would have shown how oily the throttle body and entire intake manifold was like every HD I've worked on. It would be great if a proper crankcase ventilation system could be installed easily.
BOOM
Where can a person get this type of work done with this much detail and thoroughness??!!
I did not expect to see that on a new bike. That build had to be big bucks. Have you looked at an Indian Challenger?
Awesome video. Really enjoying this series. Take care.
My m8 lowrider rips and I love it! 124 550 cam all under warranty! Extended warranties are very reasonable
Paul Mears
I'm VERY HAPPY for YOU Paul, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR M8 ! It's ALL YOURS, ENJOY WHILE YOU CAN. YOU MIGHT be NEXT, LIKE this GUY
I’m so glad with my 2007 Road King Classic 96ci l ride 205.000 km in Spain. I care of she by myself.
Interesting stuff...Zippers been doing great stuff for a long time.
I have to say, all that money for that extreme upgrade and problems??? Too much time in the shop.
This makes me even more happy I ride Indian, 73,000 miles on my 2017 Roadmaster, no engine issues, just a stage 1 on my Indian.
extreme mods always affects HD reliability . I sincerely hope you get it worked out brother and get back on the road.. I can't even imagine how much you've spent on this bike.
Shame Harley can't build properly from day one for the cost it should have 0 problems poor very poor
Tell me, what's the name of the British motorcycle company that's going out of business after just being resurrected? Norton?
Obviously no problems there.
that's what the 7 year warranty is for lol. Spend another 2K for the warranty. Then your bike goes in the shop for 5 months for repairs while you're making payments on it.
@@dukecraig2402 My local restaurant is going bust. Doesn't mean McDonald's food isn't garbage.
Did u change out the oil pump and cam plate for S&S or Fueling? Or did you go with your stock ones which is fine. I haven’t seen all the vids so if it is addressed already sorry .
pretty scary. you wonder what kind of engineers are employed at HD.
The same ones who thought that removing the Timkin bearings from the drive side of the engine was a brilliant idea from the Twin cam's and Milwaukee 8 engines 🤣
Mazda, toyota,ford
Nothing special on leak downs it's a normal thing to do they do it on RACE bikes all the time it tells a lot of what you can't see.
I have a leak down tester my self been using it since 1980 very useful information from that tool. A compression tester will tell you if it has compression a leak down to tester will tell you where the leak is and how big it is.
Porsche, they've been doing the engineering on Harley's engines for decades now, their collaboration started in 1976 when Harley contracted them to design an engine for a new model of bike called the Nova, before it was completed a new CEO took over at AMF in 1979 and one day not long after he was going over the books and ask "Why are cutting these large checks to Porsche?", when he was informed it was a project for Harley Davidson he said "Cancel it immediately", but it got Harley into bed with Porsche and that's how their engineering for their engine's got straightened out.
They only do engine developments for them, the 5 speed rubber mount frame was designed by Eric Buell when he worked for the company in the late 70's.
And the Soft Tail frame was designed by a guy in St Louis in his garage, he was an engineer for General Motors who had injured his back, he owned a Panhead hardtail and wanted to keep riding it so he designed a hidden rear suspension for it, Harley agents at a bike event saw it and purchased it and then sent it back to the factory in Milwaukee and it was reverse engineered.
Harley Davidson needs these guys on their payroll. Nuff said...
Harley can"t employ these guys HD DON'T want to pay them the CASH.
No, H-D needs to build an engine that doesn't crap out every 10,000 miles. And I'm an H-D owner.
They only hire union thugs.....yes I said it.
Not looking for quality.
I ride a Harley
Right. And cut into their profits.......I don't think so.
If you were to see the amount of "problematic" bikes at the York assembly plant you'd shake your darn head. Many engine issues and problems....
Very interesting what they said about the rings I have a 2019 RGU with about 5,000 miles and I definitely have losted some oil. Guess I know why now.
You don't ride enough.
I wish there was a Zipper's Performance out this way! Maybe I'll have to make the trip out.
Well I have a new CVO Limited and I only hope that they took more time to put the 117 engine together then the 114 and 107 engines. But they probably didn’t. Now I’m nervous in the service 😳
12% leak down is spec? Hmmm.
I also have to wonder how much of the "oil deposits" on the pistons is due to the oil mist in the breathers, as opposed to the 2mm oil ring.
Haha. Exactly how does the breather air get into the combustion chamber? Past the oil rings or valve seals. Breather air is the air that is on the bottom side of the oil ring. The oil ring is what keeps the crankcase air mist from the combustion chamber. Understand yet? ALL crankcase breather air has oil mist in it because of the violent action of the flywheel spinning. 12 percent is fine BTW. Investigate at 20 percent.
Gotta say, I'm not impressed, way to many issues on an engine with less than 10,000 miles on it. I'll just keep my EVO.
EVO's sounds better anyway
Just picked up Zippers 468 RS cam kit for my 2018 RGS.
Title said problems..No real problems Tall. Remember you came into this build with 10k miles and no problems. Yes you were putting small amount of oil in at various intervals but overall your team here caught the issue before it became serious and it’s getting addressed by competent performance technicians. As well, they’re doing a great job of keeping you in the loop by showing you up close what’s going on. Reputable shops do this and why they stay reputable. Look’n good so far T.
No real problems? You're kidding, surely. Parts not torqued to spec, loose fitting gears that drive your cam chain, burning oil because Moco doesn't want to use a decent ring set...
These are just a few of the problems. The m8 is a great motor, but Moco isn't doing them justice, especially for what they are going for.
These videos are great, those guys are pros!!
These techs make me nervous to buy a Harley Davidson.
Nawwww, you shouldn't be nervous as long as you are willing to take out a second mortgage on your house and rent out your wife and kids for slave labour on the weekends............ A $30,000.00 bike and it needs work after one season and 9,000 miles. Tell me, would you buy a car that needed that kind of servicing?
@@oh8wingman what's the answer then... which bike?
dry509 buy a Japanese bike for a fraction of the price and don’t worry about anything but putting gas in it 🤘🏽
But if you buy a Japanese bike the HD guys will turn their noses up and call you names.
Just don't get a Milwaukee 8. I've had my 103 for about 10 years no issues do all the maintenance myself. if y'all really want horsepower go metric if not Indian or Harley for that torque. Its really up to you as a rider and what you want.
Because if you can't turn around and smile at the bike you have while walking away you got the wrong bike...
That carbón build up on the pistons may be caused by the "fume" returns on the air filter, due to epa regulations they return those fumes and oil back to the pistons causing build up.
But hey changing pistón rings make more profit right? Another clue for this is that they did a comprensión check and came out great.
Pretty amazing to me to read all these comments...
Got a ‘15 FLHXS with a 103” air cooled motor, with close to 50k on the odometer. Oil changes (all 3 holes) every 5K miles, brake fluid flushed every 2 years (just like asian bikes recommend), tires replaced after 10-12K miles, brake pads changed as needed. It ran just fine when it was OEM stock for the first 8K miles and then like any H-D owner... “NEED A LITTLE MO POWER” Just part of the motorcycle world... Stage 2 is ALL I need (Dynotuned at 94HP/114TQ by an Indy shop dynomometer “master”). Didn’t buy a H-D touring model (although pretty sporty on The Dragon) to run at triple digits while doing wheelies down the interstate with a t-shirt, shorts and sandals. It’s a really fine machine when taken care of. Yes, it’s air cooled, and runs as good, or better than the day I rode away from the dealer. It’ll run 122 at the top and run a pretty good 1/4 mile for a “tractor”. I’ve got a YAMAHA MT-10 for when this old geezer gets hooligan-ish.
These issues mentioned by Tall happen, but they’re NOT THE NORM. I’ll admit that the new M-8 “appears” to be more of a problem child than the old twin cam motors, but Harley ain’t leaving the world over this. Harley’s ARE EXPENSIVE! No doubt about it. If ya’ can’t afford one, then that’s just the way it is. I’d like to have a citation jet, but I can’t afford one yet. That’s just the way life works. Just buy what you can afford and be happy. Take care of it. JUST RIDE.
This guys knows what there doing for sure
great video really appreciate the in-depth look at the build
Can't say their not thorough. So if it improves endurance and performance it's a win win 👍👍
Love my 2001 Sportster but gotta say the Japanese don't build an engine like that. Its a worry to buy a new Harley.
I almost bought a new Kawasaki Vulcan vaquero, but bought a 19 Electra glide.
@@markj6506 should have baught the Vulcan . Water cooled and a lot smoother....
I see Build Ride Repeat floating in background 💪🏾💪🏾
Hard to believe those pistons have hardly any skirts on them. Compared to my Evo that's night and day
A LOT of engines, motorcycle, car, etc have VERY short skirts nowadays.
Long stroke necessitates short piston skirts. That is slightly variable depending on pin location and rod length. The skirts are short to clear the counterweight of the crank. The pin hole is not real adjustable on a short piston. Varying rod length is another part of the equation but that is limited by deck (barrel) height and rod angle of deflection comes into play. It's technical but also interesting. At least i find it is so i read articles on whatever I am building to gain knowledge. It has served me well but i have not stroked an engine so far either. I do know that skirt length, pin location, heat expansion, piston to wall clearance and rod length are all factors. Short pistons in a bore clearanced to avoid seizure led to a lot of clattery small block Chevys in the early to mid 60's before hyperutectic coatings and all the research into engine building and solving issues.
How many miles are on this bike? Is this the brand new bike you just got? If so, why didn't you take it to the dealer so they could do this on a warranty?
He prolly voided the warranty when he got the zippers kit
The disappointing look in your face before you left and went back to the hotel pretty much sums it up for me. I can really appreciate the zippers team going above and beyond to explain everything to you. I hope they will provide that same service to each and every customer that comes through their doors and not just to you because you are filming. If this is their standard practice I would definitely drop a mortgage payment in their facility.
Shout out from Birmingham I have the exact same bike i wonder how backed up zippers are with work if I shipped my bike out
If your from Birmingham Alabama look into DC CYCLES&Racing Out of Red Bay Alabama you wont regret it 😎
I’ll do that thanks man you had experience with those guys
It's either right, or it isn't. Seems HD, is okay with isn't. Sometimes isn't, is good enough to run and what you don't know, isn't a warranty issue.
Nice guys. Nice video. Thanks.
T---Man said the same thing about the piston oilers.Well the big QUESTION??How much did the kit cost??
In the first video Zippers put a comment for kit price without labor. IIRC it was 6700 and change for the exact components in TT's bike. Installation for labor is extra.
Hopefully i was close, but you could definitely reach out to Zippers for a full list price for your planned build.
Less than 2,000 on their website. Parts only of course.
www.zippersperformance.com/zipper-s-sleeper-124-kit-for-2017-up-107-milwaukee-eight-models.html
He did eventually get headwork, valves, flow, etc also labor and extra.
Nice build,but there goes the warranty?
My local Stealership offers a lifetime warranty on the engine if you were to buy a new motorcycle from them. Probably need it after watching this video
Zippers is a HD dealer. No worries.
@Joseph Marton that's sad to hear change dealers man lots of good ones out there
Hi Tall, interesting to hear you are in Hanover. I live Hanover, Ontario and have the 2019 SGS, 114ci. Your build is fascinating, especially the issues the techs are pointing out. Oilers loose?? the little chain sprocket loose on the shaft?? the oil deposits on your pistons?? etc. What’s up with all that? Please ask the tech about the breather tube going into the throttle body, can that be part of the problem? I am tempted to re-route the hose to a catch bottle. I just put my SGS to bed for the winter and changes all three holes plus all the service needed for 16,000 km. (I actually only have 13,121km on it since April 19). Beautiful bike, I also have Custom Dynamics all around including the HDI tail light tubes for the Canadian bike.
Can't they stick a Japanese V-twin in it and sell them at a lower price?
@Eily Serva hahalol I was thinking the same.rode Hondas all my life 100s of thousands of miles no problems.last 2 bike's roadking nothing but problems.cam chain tensioners compensator sprockets seems like there is allways issues with h.d.that cost big money
That's an awsome idea!
I've owned multiple HD's. My 2016 Street Glide Special had nothing but issues. After almost two years of watching it sit in a shop or on a flatbed truck (not to mention the pain of talking to HD about the issues) I traded it for a 2018 Indian Chieftain Classic. My SG only had 5800'ish miles on it. So far I've put (as of this morning) 15,490 miles on the Chieftain. The only issues I've had with it is the stupid key fob batteries not lasting very long. Out the door with the Indian with a stage 1 upgrade was $28k and some change, my 16' SG with the stage 1 was around the same .
I bought the last year of the twin cam for a reason.
Big Kyle yep my 2007 twin cam 96 runs fine. Still would prefer an evolution
Twin cams are worse! Remove the entire cam gear set, heads, and push rods to address cam chain wear. Repair $$ at factory maintenance interval recommendations. Stupid.
Me too.
I stick with my Evo for a reason.....
And I bought the last year of the Evo for a reason
Indian Motorcycles Nuff said 👍🏻👍🏻
Indian is not without its problems either my friend
Who's making Indians now and for how long... Lol
Great video. Zippers explains it well.
Wow...detailed surgery....nice!
Great series of videos.
Only negative comment to your videos would be to lower your intro music way too loud compared to audio of the video
I agree with Chuck White. Please change the intro.
I hope you and your family have a safe and happy Thanksgiving. To all your viewers as well. Be safe brother
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in the comments below but he is failing to mention blow by that is the oil that gets up into your air filter that is really what you're seeing on that piston it is not at all what he's talking about. I have never seen anybody consume oil like he's talking about. It sounds good but it's a bunch of malarkey sorry to be so brunt about it
I'm just curious to know if you had just
left your bike stock, you would have
never experienced these problems.
OR
Is this a problem with stock M8'$ as
well. I don't have this many miles
on my bike yet & won't have for at
least a couple of more years.
I've heard of dry sumping problems
another channel owner posted but
he too had a stage 2 or 3 put on his
107 street glide. He also had to
put MLS gaskets in, to replace
the stock ones.
The stock ones burnt spotted
in one place. His only had
7,000 miles or so on it.
Already having my issues with my ultra limited. Harley told me ride it till it breaks. My mouth hit the floor. That was at 11000. 14000 still has the same noise but getting worse. Who knows maybe a 131 for freeeee.
I sold my M8 Softail and got an older Twin Cam Road King. Refuse to look back due to the overwhelming issues with the new engines
I HOPE HARLEY IS PAYING the BILL for REBUILDING this M8 GARBAGE MOTOR😒😎
Really? 10,000 miles?! I know there's making some upgrades but is this a warranty job. Or do you have to pay for this?
Bro can spend 40 grand on a new motorcycle that has wet sump issues, overheat the oil and leave u on side of the road. Ok
@Joseph Marton i would have gotten rid of that bike if it left me stranded twice
Can someone tell me how on earth a bike can have leaking rings and be putting out a cylinder pressure number that should equal a 15:1 compression ratio?
is this some weird harley nonsense?
Low ring tension.
Many newer car motors are like that too. Perfect compression yet will put out out a bad leakdown test.
With the amount of oil that thing was burning, I'm surprised you had any oil left.
Sick build man
Nice I watch a lot of your videos brotha are you gonna change your bars too? I would figure that since you are so tall there short bars would make the bike feel tight
These bikes are such a rig for the price. That's why I switched brands, well one of many reasons.
It appears you took your bike to the right guys. May ride mine up there from STL and get the same kit. How many days does it take for the Sleeper kit?
Great informative video. Good Job!
You shouldn't have to improve a bike that cost a fortune....
Exactly, tell that to the idiots at HD ... however they wouldn't care. Many are jumping ship & I can't blame them. There's plenty of better, reliable bikes out there for less than what these cost. They need to fire whoever runs the quality dept.
@@brianzaborowski2724 the CEO Matt Levatich needs to go!
I’d never buy a M 8 trash
But nothing compares to showing off the egocentricity on a leaky Hd on the side of the road.
I got a 2010 twin cam 103. No issues whatsoever runs like a scalded dog with stage 1 and a tune
My bike was on that same lift as dan named it runs stronger than ever zippers is the best
Well heck if it's crap from the factory and all these experienced Harley manufacturing engineers who spent years designing and testing the M8; why buy it and throw away good money? Better to spend the money on a Honda Gold Wing, they are going for the low 20's. I have a factory M8 with 30,000 miles and still running fine.
So basically the engine builder at HD factory smoked a joint and was like...yea it’s good...send it 🤦🏻♂️
Either a Monday or a Friday engine lol
This video is actually disturbing to me. I have always ridden metric bikes with no failures. I decided to purchase my first Harley Davidson, a 2018 Road Glide 107 M8. All the issues the mechanics found in his new 2019 is very concerning. I never planned to do an engine upgrade I'm ok with the stock 107. Personally I don't think you should spend 30K on a motorcycle then have to do an engine rebuild a year later. I understand adding performance parts, but not a rebuild. This makes me question the quality of my new HD.
That's the issue unless there's a failure you'll never know. Out of spec motors with 9000 miles on the clock seem the norm with M8s.
How much does an upgrade like this affect the gas mileage and highway performance?
And my 2015 Indian Chief with 10K plus has zero issues. Loved my Harleys but by 2015 it was over.