Audio | J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Brockwood Park 1975 - 11: What is wisdom which is not a...
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J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Brockwood Park 1975 - 11: What is wisdom which is not a movement of thought?
Series: Truth, actuality, and the limits of thought
Summary:
Wisdom, intelligence and truth.
If there is attention is there choice?
Why has man divided perception?
What is wisdom which is not the movement of thought?
What place has the man who perceives truth in this world of reality?
Truth operating in one brain clears that brain.
Mustn’t there be emptiness for the perception of truth?
Consciousness.
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David Bohm was a amazing man, he had So much understanding of everything k talked about.
Perhaps the greatest philosophers of our time [..] thank you both for your timeless wisdom 🤍
K without Bohm is difficult to follow and very confusing! K's dialogues only with Bohm are profound, easy to understand . Worth the time!
Amazing 🙏🏼
Ambiguity
1:09:46 on evolution
1:19:15 is guru necessary
1:31:50 desire trying to achieve a better state of consciousness. There is good discussion for rest of 20mins. Consciousness is its content and it is not some movement taking place in essence.
Whether or not both of them 'perceive' the ultimate truth, nonetheless, probably the best dialogue they have produced, and, maybe, surpassing even Plato. Who knows?
I think Krishnamurti may have had aphantasia from what he described here 42:53. Aphantasia is the inability to voluntarily create mental images in one's mind.
Caught that. If you think about it, having aphantasia probably limits the process of imagination a fair amount. But what’s interesting about the non-aphantasia brain is that you can only create mental imagery of things your remember/know/recognize. So even though aphantasia might be a peculiar neurochemical phenomenon/mutation, aphantasia doesn’t play a role in truth. It’s simply a fact of brain.
I think its that he is in imageless reality. The truth is an imageless reality
Wow. Never knew that word. I probably have Aphantasia too. Thank you for sharing !
Probably relates to what they said earlier, when they together carefully avoided “archetypes”
i watched your clip on this. I also watched another video where the guy said he had aphantasia. No images, sound, music, or inner monologue. I thought of K. Is it possible he had the a similar kind of aphantasia including the lack of an inner dialogue? And if so, he didn't have Thought running through his brain like the rest of us?
40:48 Truth is something wich can only be perceived when the mind acts as a whole. ... K.
There is something quite Hegelian about this ongoing conversation between K and Bohm, mutating, dividing, then recombining and taking what worked formerly and using that to grow a new idea. It’s quite peculiar, and seemingly it is repeating. Just like though, how it draws or notices the limit, then sets a new horizon beyond that limit.
The term is “aufgeheben”.
438k subs, amazing!
Perceptions can be deceptive.
Deceptive, when the perception is triggered by something, like a business minded mind, then most likely the perception itself is based on deception ....
the capacity to intelligence
inperceptiob choice
a choiceless choice :)
you jusr percekve and act according;y.....
❤
Two beautiful men
Since spirituality is everything to do with ME or I, it is nothing to do with non-me ... ?
Then, everything to do is actuality, nothing to do with reality which is everything to do with the Truth ... ?
It was said that humans live in illusion, then, actuality does include illusion, as some of the barriers ... that hinders one meeting with the reality or God, face to face ...
Why do I want to see fearsome God, even face to face ... Only thing that can see God, face to face is emptiness ... ?
David can talk with the best of them
The divisions have been made by education (or conditioning), as K says, fundamentally. "Thought" as the culprit, as B says, is too broad, meaningless. It is rather the language that divides with its skillfully ambiguous quality, through so-called education.
Scientific confusion ....
Knowing well that language is dualistic, B is more than contented in juggling the duality of language and has doctorate skills in it. Dr. Bohm has been fascinated in the power of language and trys to draw K into it, while K is quick to say sorry, but trys to leave something behind, for the rest, to ponder over
Most wonderful speech. Feels like my many confusions cleared
Sit with however you are feeling and cry through.
"Thought can transcend itself" the magic - all powerful human tool that can bend any possible way to make it work, and be able to reside and be satisfied even in illusion delusion disorder ...
Heart warming this fella Krishnamurti, listening to a high organised scientific mind And trying to dabble in that darkness with just ONE BIG IDEA adapting to the stream as it comes...ONE THING DONT AGREE TO ERASE ALL WISDOM as not truth just reality and he's gloriously first to enunciate the essence.
35:15 Intelligence is based on insight into experience, memory and knowledge,
to see within, the whole of Truth.
Wisdom is the knowledge that sees the whole, and acts upon the Truth.
Correct me if this logic has an error
When that "insight into" those can reveal the insighter the true face of the SELF... then the insight can help the insighter to act, otherwise this "act" could be reaction
Error is repeating 😅
This is one of the more bizzare conversations I've ever heard from them. I feel like I'm hearing David explain his perspective more than I'm hearing K speak his wisdom, if you will. Like Im listening to David being taught as opposed to myself.
K listening to Bohm's articulation is also remarkable. K knows how Bohm straightens his own thinking and Bohm does homework by getting all the desirable roots for words & notes etc.
1:25:25 what is present now is a memory and an expectation in thought
I get the feeling from these dialogues that discussing anything is futile
Futile, when it's a one way dialogue ... to the other side. But those who would benefit might be the listener(s) ... without falling into the ambiguity of the language
@1:03:00 talking about one of the Siddhi of enlightenment person.
Order in reality is impossible. 52:00 fact
Lots of theory 😃
🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎵🎶🎵
1:05:17
💜🙏
🦋
🙏