(Unknown #) Tips for Making A Prefect Tenon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- How to cut the Perfect Mortise: • Less Than one Tips To ...
Router plane used in the video: • Make a Router Plane LIVE
Chisels: lddy.no/z1ux
Shoulder plane: lddy.no/gt2k
A tenon is the basic first step of all joinery and if you can master this then you can master anything. here are a pile of tips and tricks and several different methods of cutting tenons!
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Best part was at the 9 minute mark. ‘All those perfect tenons I’ve seen online aren’t perfect’. Tips were great as well. Thanks!
The section about sawing uphill and downhill was new information for me. Nice to learn something (new. Or maybe everybody else knew about it, but it was new to me).
I like the no BS style. Subscribed.
Tip # 1782 - ½: Whenever you have a board with a tenon, there is almost always another one that matches and that board will be the exact same thickness. When using the router plane, you can put the other board under the opposite end of the router plane so it’s supported under both handles. Very handy when doing larger tenons (and you don’t have a homemade super long handled router plane!)
Or don't cut a tenon but cut a dado on both sides using the router and then trim off the end of the board as a last step.
Love the comment about the bench, and it's a true comment. i always put my tools back in their rightful place when I'm done working for the day but, don't touch the bench. I've been hand cutting tenons and dovetails for many years. I was making a reproduction Pennsylvania chest of drawers a few years ago for a regular client that's into serious antiques and wants reproductions of them. She was in the shop one time when a young woodworker stopped in to see me and she was watching me hand cutting a tenon. The guy told me I should get a domino machine. The lady looked at him and told him, he's a craftsman not a tool junkie, and I don't won't a tool junkie making reproductions for me. Seemed to hurt the guy's feeling a little lol. He left a few minutes later and she laughed and told me, keep sawing lol. As always, thanks for your videos.
For all others great tips in the video, one of the best is - "Don't stress it out " :-)
I was about to say the exact same thing!
I felt huge Roy Underhill energy when you were talking about the shoulder plane
Nicely done James! Your comments regarding the quality of a tenon is reassuring and eye opening for most people as they see flaws in their tenons and believe it will fail. A short while back I viewed a video of yours regarding spacing of dovetails. You exhibited the same approach. You said it is ok to rely on your eyes and not fret that "one millimeter" difference as it won't be noticeable. Love those tips!!!
#102 was my favorite. It turns out that even when you know how to use a chisel, there is more to learn. I appreciate how specific you were with chisel technique--that will help me with tenons and a lot of other things, too.
If I take nothing else away from this other than the 1/3 of a chisel for pairing the base, I’m sure my tenons will still be significantly better!
Personal choice, I like starting the cut for the cheeks of the tenon with a crosscut saw as that bites a bit better, but continuing the cut I do it with a rip saw. This works pretty well for me 😁😁
There are a lot of wrong ways to do it and there's no ONE Wright way to giterdun. Thanks James!
This was a very good video. Previous comment was on intro titles. And with regard to your last point, my bench is currently happier than I'd like.
Great lesson and great advice. You’re exactly right, relax and have fun.
Thanks bud.
I broke down a couple weeks ago and bought a new router plane. Now I know what I'm going to do with my home made one! I'm puttin' a long honkin' left side on it. haha.
The louder it honks the better!
Thanks James, great tips, amazing mindset... And also, that shoulder plane is cuuuuuute
James this is one of the best videos you've done in a while. Informative, empowering, genuinely funny, and very good camera work too. (Good job Sarah)
Great timing James, cut 8 mortices today, tenons tomorrow. Cheers, excellent video. Regards Jim UK.
Thank you for telling that all have flaws and no need to make it 100% perfect! As a noob I appreciate this! I love hobby woodworking but I make lots of mistakes, but I’m aiming for perfection that rarely happens. 😂
Dont forget that the stanley router planes have two screw holes cast in, just add an extended base it works very well, I also liked the dont stress and 1/3 tips.
Right on I have a video on that too.
@@WoodByWrightHowToOn the whole "cutting uphill" thing, would you cut downhill if using a pole saw?
Actually made me feel better about my joinery without my doing anything 👍
That was awesome. I learned a lot more than I expected. Thanks. I might just have to make one of those long router planes some day.
Or you can make an extension base for your No.71
I screwed up a lot of tenons by trying to make them prefect, wonky shoulders and removed too much material from the faces.
I worked on saw technique saw so I can cut closer to the lines which means less clean up.
At the moment I'm not confident in the mortise walls (because I'm still working on chisel control when chopping) so I am using a draw bore to add extra security to the joint
I love the counting numbers you use.
The last tip I use constantly
My bench is the happiest bench in the world.
😆😆😆
Thank you! You just upped my tenon game by tenfold!!
So this is my favourite: cut uphill
I think it’s fantastic how uphill is beneficial in not only sawing wood but running a nice weld. I should’ve taken carpentry in job corps.
Thank you for teaching! Your teaching style really helps my brain understand:)
Adding more material on tenons. One trick I came up with making a heavy mirror frame with mortise and tenon where two of the tenons came up loose, or possibly the mortises were a little oversized, not a lot but still too much. The shoulders were all fine. So, what to do? I glued tenon cheek sized pieces of brown paper bag on both faces, clamped it down firmly, and let it cure. When it was cured I pared the glue-saturated paper to proper thickness. The mirror hangs in the hall and visitors ask where it came from.
I've used a plane on a scrap piece of the same type of wood and glued the curls onto the cheeks.
@@HandlebarWorkshops I considered doing just that. It's certainly more conscientious. I came down on the use of paper because the looseness was just about exactly two paper thickness - white typing paper. But it wouldn't show and just acts as a shim and glue sponge, so finally I went with paper. Using wood shavings would have made me a little self conscious of the joints initially. I somehow was worried that someone would know and ask me why.
Fantastic tips, James! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
James-Thanks so much for this! This was immensely helpful. This will be my go to video for sure when doing tenons.
I thoroughly enjoy your technique videos
Loved the video, brilliant keep it up.
Awesome,mate. Thanks heaps
Excellent!
great work teaching us>
I think you need to go upstairs and get the kids to teach you to count, lmao🤣
The tips were *all there* in numerical order...you just weren't ready for the ones you "missed" 😉
can you make a little joint test with different qualities of joints? the best you can do vs a medium one vs a crappy one?
It may be fun and interesting to see how much force each can take.
You are the best
Basically, the way you scribe saw and clean the tenon in the first part of the video seems the most normal to me. No special tricks whatsoever. Sawing a little bit off the scribe line just makes sense. I totally agree with slightly undercutting the shoulder. It allows a tight fit and glue on the end grain doesn't do much anyway, so you don't miss much. Bottom line, there is no substitute for competence. The router plane never worked for me on tenons, but hey that's me.
I wish I knew about the hand plane trick and using the chisel to see if it was flat just about yesterday because I was cutting 12 tenons for the box I was telling you about 😅😅 great video! And great tips!!
(unknown #) of thanks.
Every time I watch videos like these, my first thought is , "how do you make/keep your chisels so damn sharp?"
here is an older video on that. th-cam.com/video/00-DSLMY_ck/w-d-xo.html
Huge fan of using a router plane on tenons. When the tenon is a bit fat, with the router plane you can really carefully creep up on the sizing. Your asymmetrical router plane is a good idea.
If your tenon is too long for your router plane, you don't actually have to make a new asymmetrical one. Paul Sellers in one of his videos shows a method of basically cutting a large dado with one of the cross-grain cuts on the shoulder, and the other about 3/8 of an inch to back from the end of what will be the tenon. Then you can support both sides of the router plane until you get down to the depth you want before cutting away the end and cleaning up with a chisel, using the bottom of the dado as a reference face. I don't remember which video it was, but just wanted to credit PS with the alternate method of cleaning up a large tenon cheek.
I enjoyed that video but is there any chance you could do a separate video on tip #569? I think you skipped it out I might have missed it in a previous video. Thank you for the great content
Thanks
Any tips for cutting the edge cheek? Do you cut the face cheeks first? Do you do everything at once, roughing it all out then polishing it all up?
Finger joint... tenons
Dovetails... shaped tenons
Tongue a groove... long tenon
Yup, checks out...
Even hanging an ax, the head is basically a mortice, and the handle is cut to a, get this, a shaped wedged tenon..... yup also checks out!
Even a nut and bolt, the bolt is a tenon with a wedge wrapped spirally around the tenon.
What about a half lap?
@@WoodByWrightHowTo You said “half lap” and I think you mean a “mortitenon”. 🤣🤣
You my boy blue
Cool vid.... I'll toss in tip 73,564,694 ..
Another Tenon method
1 knife mark out the tenon cut line
2 cut the shoulder with a tenon saw with a depth stop attachment or a narrow plough plane.
3 if needed further weaken the cross grain duplicated the depth stopped cut in few random place's in the waste
the extra provide a reference of depth across the tenon surface.
4 Chisel of the waste or plane off with rebate plane...
-
For me, I like this method - after set up both the saw and a rebate plane , this method "just works" off the bat....
Tip 73,564,695
Veritas sells a magnetic saw depth stop but I made my own with same threaded rod, a couple of ridged nuts,(the nuts are locked together) to some magnets and little timber strip....
The exception of the perfection is the shoulder. Take your time on the shoulders and everything else is hidden. My tenons frequently look like garbage because it just doesn't matter except the shoulders which I make sure are pristine. (Unless it's a through tenon of course.) Shoulders need to be straight and parallel so there are no gaps. Other than that, a tenon just has to be snug fitting, but not tight and what it looks like is irrelevant.
I'd thumbs up for a brilliant video title if I didn't already thumb up for great content
I didn't understand tip #435 - I'm hoping you could do another video expanding on it? Thanks
Regarding the very last tip (10:51) -- my bench must be ecstatic!
I've had success with using a router plane ane bench plane for the tenon face.
Like what you did with the bench plane and chisel, but I found using a router plane was more controlled.
Same here, I only have a small router plane from Veritas (the smallest that is not minitiature sized). I use that to get the cheek area next to the shoulder to perfect depth, then I use a bench plane to match the remainder of the cheek surface.
Fab-a-lous!
dont be like the doors. dont break on through to the other side
Tip 665 is usually my go-to :)
I enjoyed this lad
Mysterious!
thanks and congrats on first!
I can't recall ever seeing you use floating tenons. What's your philosophy on those?
They're great if If you're a power tool user. But if you're doing things with hand tools they're just twice the work.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Heh, yep. The only time I could see floating tenons being useful is if you have a beautiful board that you cut just a bit too short and can only butt it against the other member. Even then, I can't imagine trying to cut a mortise into end grain. I'm not even sure how I'd go about doing it without a power tool. I guess auger it out and pare, but I'd say way more than twice the work to use a floating tenon and you're also introducing another point of failure since now you really have two joints instead of one.
@@lawrencedeleurere4427 I’ve had to use a floating tenon when repairing a piece of outdoor furniture. The original tenon (joining a bench-seat’s arm to the seat’s back) had rotted off inside the joint through years of the bench being exposed to the elements. The only sensible method of rejointing was to clear out the rotted material & make floating tenon to marry up the two components afresh.
It was some years back, but I don’t recall cutting the end-grain mortise in the arm piece being a particular pain. And I just formed an over long tenon from the donor piece (and over fat, if I remember right), pared that down to fit the new mortise in the arm piece with the tenon still attached to the donor piece, cross cut it off the donor piece (and to the ‘correct’ length), attached it to the arm piece & the pared the new free end to fit the mortise in the seat back. With use of a sympathetic donor species, the new joint looked fine & the bench-seat is still out in my neighbour’s back garden years later.
Is that air dried tulip poplar . 😄
Good eyes. Yes it is.
Aaand I was just thinking about looking for this video, and poof, it popped up...perfect timing.
So I watched this and your mortise video, I'm curious about sizing of the tenon, as far as width and depth... is there guidelines as far strength...??
In your mortise video it appears to be about 2-1/2" stock that you put an 1-1/4" deep mortise/tenon in, is it a random thing that comes with experience....???
Depth just depends on how strong you need it to be. The deeper it is, the more it will resist racking. As too thickness, it's usually about 1/3 to 1/2. Anywhere in between you pretty solid on most.
Hi hi. You said undercutting. Just to be clear, you mean cutting into the wood further than the line you scored? Learning is fun.
Yes, he means cutting deeper towards the opposite plane. So if you're chiselling from the top of the tenon, then you can cut a little deeper towards the shoulder end as you won't see it. Don't go wild of course, you don't want your tenon hanging by a thread!
yes sloping it slightly in so the line is exactly where you want it. but the middle of the face is in a bit. that way when they go together the seen section will be tight and it will look good.
Perfect! Thank you both for your replies!
I think your numbers are on an exponential curve. Unless I missed a few tips. Despite that, I don't feel short changed.
Wow. I'll give it a go. It's that a paring chisel, or a regular ol' 25 degree bevel one?
30 degree bench chisel
👍👍👍😁
If you take off too much could a wedge be an option? Cut down the middle of the tenon?
That works. Or you could glue the cheek back on and re cut. Some will glue on paper or card stock.
i've found clean tenons are easier on hardwoods vs pine
Generally yes. The problem with pine is you have to have a very sharp iron. Otherwise you just end up crushing the fibers. Whereas with hardwoods a slightly dull chisel can still leave a decent surface.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I see I see. Will have to make sure I'm freshly sharpened. Appreciate the reply
Uhuhuh he said butt
It's mortises that scare the bejeebers out of me.
I may have to do that video soon!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo this would be great, I'm building a roubo bench and getting clean mortise walls is a struggle
tenons are easy enough..... but cutting mortises is my most hated task :/
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Which do you cut first, mortice or tenon?
Mortises by hand really aren't that bad. You just need a mortise chisel and some time. Just suck it up, build an end table with some cherry or walnut or another relatively easy to use hardwood and by the time you finish it, you'll be good enough at mortises. The thing to remember about mortise and tenon joinery is that almost all of it is hidden. you don't need to make pristine cuts or perfect walls. The important thing about the mortise is that it has to go completely straight down. If you get that part right, the rest is very forgiving.
I will say though, I bought a benchtop hollow chisel mortiser because of some mission style furniture I was doing with a ton of 1/4 inch mortises (and Woodcraft sucked me in with a good sale) and now I'm addicted. It's so ridiculously easy to do that my mortise chisels feel abandoned by me now. Power tool users like to give mortisers a hard time because they don't know what sharp is, but for hand tool users that know how to sharpen tools, mortise machines are just immorally good.
Nice clogs.
Best shop shoes you can ask for.
So presumably the advice is exactly opposite for a Japanese saw? Cut “downhill”? Or at least, the tip of the saw is lower than the handle. The cutting is still being done uphill in some sense.
Yes. The cutting stroke is still down hill.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo you mean uphill. =] Sorry to confuse everyone including you. The way you did it with a push saw, you push uphill, as if riding up a hill in front of you on a bike. But with a Japanese saw, pushing you would be biking down a hill, since it’s on the other side of the wood. But the actual cutting is done on the pull, so you would be sawing “uphill” on a hill that’s heading towards you, on the other side of the wood.
7:36 IMHO the verb is "rout" (you use a router plane to rout).
LOL where is the fun in that!
I don't like the way you just threw that amazing router plane in there without reference to a video showing its construction!!! Tease.
Unfortunately, I'm left handed, so I wouldn't be able to use it anyway.
He made it live last week I believe! The whole thing is on the channel, it took about an hour, and you could easily switch the sides that the arm extends!
Oh shoot I forgot to put the link in there. this was the live Saturday. Here you go. th-cam.com/video/DqeUlz3KjCY/w-d-xo.html I will be doing a shorter video this Saturday for it.
Very cool idea for that router. I think I’ll make mine bidirectional, centering the blade on the end.
@@noahfreeman8115 yes, I watched the video, I was just being facetious. I thought putting the joke in about it not being left handed would have given it away, but it looks like I'm going to have to get a better joke writer.
@@rollingstone3017 or just turn it upside down.
perfect mortise?
maybe I will have to do that one soon!
I'm still working on training woodworm to eat out the perfect mortice 🤣
I just can't understand why you didn't saw the bloody thing correctly in the first place?
I've managed to not say this so far, but I find all your intentional title errors to be quite annoying. It's not your problem, but it is mine.
I'm sure you realise it is an attempt at humor, an inside running joke with his followers.
@@thomasarussellsr Of course. That's why I called it intentional. It's my problem, but I do find it annoying.
@@alans1816 cool.
I am sure you are not the only one. There will come a day when Wood By Wright will transition to more of a business, and that kind of shenanigan will disappear. but untell that day... Sorry!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I will miss this kind of shenanigans :/
Thanks