You mantioned about the three type of botlane as a triangle. You could make a guide about how to win lane if you are in disadvantage (like what should a pke lade do to win vs a sustain lane)
Huge example of this lack of awareness: when the ADC specifically requests an all-in support, but they shove the wave to tower and keep it there. If you want a Leona, play around the Leona. If you're going to shove, let the support choose a poke champion and complement your play style. Also, ADCs choosing champions that don't synergise with their Support.
@UCpSloSUq_SG8dfx4f_x08hQ But if i ask my support, not to pick Yuumi, Soraka, Sona, or Lulu, and they pick one, and they force me to play in a way i don't like, and i'm not comfortable with, then who's fault is it? Mine, of course, because i can't play passively, and definietly not yours, because you suck at agressive plays. And if your job is to mitigate damage, then why the fuck you don't? Always leaving me in a bad spot, because you lack heal, and your early is complete trash. You need 2 items at least to do anything, and of course, if we lose lane, because you can't heal shit, but the enemy Thresh can lock me down for 3 years, then it's my fault, because i can't dodge EVERY SINGLE ABILITY. Because you heal around 140 every 15 sec, and you can do this 3 times, before you're out of mana, you don't have cc, and don't have damage, you're also paper, and die from literally anything. The playstyle of these enchanter "E-Girl" supports, is to let the adc die alone, then help the rest of the team. Or at least in low elo. And when your adc gets dived by 4 people, no matter what support you play, it's the ADC's fault. So he's noob, and leave him alone for the rest of the game. The real fundamental of the bot lane, is to trust your PARTNER. EDIT: because it seems like way too many people misunderstands this comment, i'm going to try and clear up everything. This comment ISN'T ABOUT MYSELF. The first part is about that in theese comments Supports write, like everything is the adc's fault. What I wrote down is not that it is only the Support's fault, that he can't play agressively, but it is both the adc's fault and the adc, but from the sentence It comes to me, as "only the adc should adapt, whatever the support does, is perfect" ( I still don't think it's understandable, but let me try Support says, that "It's really hard, when the ADC wants me to play agressively from the champ select, but i can't so i play Soraka, and he still plays agressively" This is just an example, don't get tilted. What i feel like he meant is: "ADC is so stupid, he should adapt to my playstyle, and shouldn't expect ME, to adapt to theirs" In this scenario, both the ADC and Support is bad, and both should work on playing differently. I hope you unterstand it this way. The Second part was complete garbage from my part, i'm sorry for that, i was pretty tilted yesterday, so in that point, you're completly right to tilt on it, it was my fault, sorry. TBH, Enchanters can be great, and really bad. It all depends, because sometimes i get insane healing from my soraka, and we carry, but in other games, Soraka is less skilled, or new to the champion, or i have no idea, but i don't get any heal. You might be awsome with soraka, but i also encoutered a lot of Soraka/Sona/Yuumi players, who were simply bad at the game/new to the champ.... For the 4 man dive part, i want you to know, that it is a Dive. Not a simple gank/roam. You ward perfectly, both of you, you see the enemy coming, and go back under tower, then you get ulted by Malphite, and there is nothing you can do. Your adc dies for the first time, in a situation you both had no actual chanche of survival at that point. You get behind, and at that point, you look at your adc being 20 cs behind, and 0/2/1. You either feel like, "it's ok, we can still come back", but usually, the supports I meet, doesn't trust me at this point, that we can come back, since i died 2 times already, and i'm really behind, so just leaves and tries to help the rest of the team.
Sett, A Ring Királya As a support main egirl, you’re exactly the kind of adc I leave to die alone. “Because I can’t dodge EVERY SINGLE ABILITY.” Yeah, and I can’t either. And I’m out of mana from the shield you literally never notice because you’re not bothering to track my cooldowns or the enemies. And we get attacked by 4 people because you have no vision of the enemy jungler or midlander but decided to push the wave anyway. And even though you’re making bad plays, you’re still flaming me for both being a useless champion AND not fixing all of your mistakes. The way I quit being hardstuck was realizing roaming and even outright leaving lane is better than trying to plug up the hole of a bad adc. The job of the support is to keep the win condition alive. If your support keeps leaving you, that’s a sign. Trash talk less. Improve more.
@@barnykirashi Just play sinergy as your support style and it easy win for me even he play Soraka. Her just only need to press W and much as possible to win the lane. And if your support seem noob. Just abandon him. Act like they didn't there at all just farming as wait for team play in mid game save all your spell for save yourself at all cost. Easy By the bot lane main (sup+adc) I can guarantee it work as this guide guided you.
I can't blame my ADC for poor lane control as a support main. It's my fault because I didn't share the video with them. Don't make my mistake, share the video.
I just ask my adc what kind of adc they r...when someone picks Kai sa I ask if they want 2 play early rlly aggressive and pick something like panth or naut try 2 lane until 6 if lane not working start roam but not before 6 and at least normal boots
I'm here with candy so see whether I can lure a support main back to my lane. Here's why it would be worth playing with me: 1. I watch all the ADC content on SkillCapped. 2. I understand wave mechanics, and wave positioning. 3. My micro is clean, with 600k mastery on Jinx and 1.1million on Kaisa 4. Because I primarily play Kaisa, I have become extremely proficient at identifying windows of opportunity for all-ins, and chunks. 5. I understand the laning objectives of all botlane matchups. 6. I am a very solid communicator over comms 7. If our jungler fucks up a gank, and blames you for their mistakes, I will flame them with you. 8. I also play DOTA 2 in addition to our children's game. 9. I know not to bother wasting time standing at an objective we can't contest. 10. I always look to cross-map and take turrets/enemycamps if my team does something silly and gives up a free objective. I'm presently gold 4, though my game statistics indicate that I'm playing at a diamond Level in terms of objective control, and a master level in terms of CS. My vision game absolutely needs work, though, as it is consistent with my present rank. My favorite statistic is the fact that I average +230gp early gold advantage (despite playing primarily Kaisa, one of the shortest ranged ADCs). If I sound like I'm worth playing with, add me: ElectricKoolaid And we'll see whether we synergize. I prefer a hyper aggressive all-in lane, but I'll play around anything if you're good.
It's cool that you showed similiar situation in 1st and 3rd clip. As you mentioned in one of your videos before, it's better to learn when you repeat exact same concept.
@@frockz69 Jg diff and top diff. mid not so much unless mid roams otherwise mid-game jg and top diff big time! because if you win bot you can kill mid but it is so hard to kill top if super fed. fed top can 1 v 2 you or 1 v 9 a mid can't 1 v 2 yet unless roam. In gold/silver elo they don't xD
I quite honestly wanted to hit not interested in this channel because of this title. My chances are best when I treat the bot lane as a 1v2 knowing full well my support will 90% of my matches go neg KD. I am the CARRY afterall but support should be renamed enabler. Like yummi and a bunch of other wanna be supports, they end up just watching 1v2s. dying more often than just remaining 0/0 and I always out ward and vision score my supps. I have urged for smaller teams with ranked and maybe a smaller map. Twisted treeline etc 1v1 2v2 or 3v3 but hella even just drop support or jungle too many variables and lazy gamers wanting wins while not even doing at least their 20%
@@jmanriquez5184 Man this happened to me yesterday lmao, my zyra support kept flaming me because she kept getting caught and ended up dying everytime... Like at least if you're not gonna do much poke, at least don't die... (by minute 10 she was 0/5) At this point the lane was fucked, I was playing kaisa vs lux/cait so I kept getting poked down. But yeah, not gonna lie, that game, I really didn't play the lane well after she fed so I ended up feeding too, started the game 0/4. Then zyra had the audacity to say "I don't want to play with this adc anymore"... Turns out, after getting killed by a roaming talon a few times. A few bad fights occured on their part and I ended up picking a few kills and started snowballing, then, carrying the late game. I finished 18/9/5... Never heard zyra complain about me again lol. (thank god my mid laner was doing great too and enabled us to stall for a bit)
When I try to freeze my supports always shove, then when enemy is recalled and I’m trying to shove they sit in Bush afk instead of shoving with me That being said I know that’s not what’s stopping me from climbing, just a complaint
The amount of Times my Support breaks the freeze because he kills the cannon minion early to get the gold is incredible :D on the topic of pushing tho, use the help me ping on the Wave. Most supports will help you if you do.
Image Kid kind of. I play support and i know when to shove and freeze but adcs need to say when they want to do it. Other wise all you want to do is shove and roam. Address it it’s not that hard or hope your support knows when to shove and say only help me shove don’t touch the minions till then. Not hard
When i try to manage the wave and my morgana uses her w on casters and takes them as well and shes like : im trying yo harass them. Me: Im the one you're harassing
I always hesitate to cheat recall with Xayah tbh, I find the double doran's not so good on her cause she needs attack speed quickly to deal damage. Is it really worth it?
The idea of a cheater recall is to gain a slight item and hp/mana advantage over your enemy. You can opt for a dagger if you want to prioritize Attack speed.
0:20 [...]Also the support pick is very often what dictates how the bot lane matchup will go as ADC picks are farm or homogenous. You have a huge range of playstyles and strenghts among supports while a lot of ADCs generally do similar things.[...] You see now why mages bot lane, Yasuo bot lane, Garen/Yuumi duo, Lux/Sona duo, Taliyah/Pantheon duo and similars are good things? Marksmen are basically the same champions. Varus is a pick that stands out building lethality and opting for a poke build? Let's nerf the hell out of his base damage AD ratios, give him base attack speed instead to force him into the bork rageblade build there's already a billion players taking. Essence Reaver+Tri-force comet Ashe? Not seen in ages. Lethality marksmen? Other than Varus, not seen in ages. Everytime something new shows up bot lane, a portion of the community that isn't willing to change complains, Riot tries to force that 10 years old, clearly outdated playstyle, back into the meta and the role ends up sucking. Something similar happened in season 7 and we ended up with the abomination that was ardent censer meta. And earlier this season, in top lane, where riot tried so hard to force an outdated playstyle down top lane gullet they've created the new death's dance that's so incredibly overpowered that warps not only the top lane meta, but other roles as well, albeit to a lesser extent, around who can or cannot use the item. Post nerfs conqueror isn't a big deal anymore, but bork is still problematic.
so I noticed that since signing up on SC, I don't really watch the youtube content anymore, and I can imagine a large portion of subs doing the same. This means that if you guys are making good video's, in the sense that you get the most amount of new subscribers, that also means that your amount of views will drop, so the algorithm will pick up on the negative impact. Would that make a difference? Is it a significant influence? Just a random thought
I'd love to see a full list of bot lane champs that fall into the categories of Sustain, Poke, and All In. I can guess but I'd rather get it from the experts
Good thing i learned that when i need to recall i need to atleast push the wave or stack them then push them or just freeze the wave and let the enemy adc recall before i recall so that the enemy adc cant get a plate or two. Even tho i got this on my mind i cant climb because remember adc role isnt a 1v9 role that can 1v5 everything
Can people stop saying this? The adc can't do anything without a support and vice versa (or so it should be), they are roles that require coordination and teamwork and not just the individual skill of the player. Sorry I've just seen a lot of bad botlanes thinking that they're each meant to 1v5
- You hard push Skillcapped: haha noob you didnt slow push to create a cheat recall. - You slow push Skillcapped: haha noob you didnt hard push to get a level 2 advantage vs the enemy bot. Conclusion: me noob.
Idk if this is a part of joke but if u push hard u cant use lvl 2 advantage, u have to push enough to get lvl 2 before them and zone them so they cant hit the wave, better u can start fight 2v2 u will win anyway whatever ur support and ADC
If you are going to make an example like this, could you show where a clip where the ADC/supp do what they're supposed to do and being rewarded or winning the lane? Being told what's wrong is good, but I feel like we'd learn better if we see to what happened or how it'd be if we're doing right.
It always strikes me as a little silly when people say "low elo" when talking about Silver, Gold and platinum.. that's "average elo", not low elo. Low elo would be iron and bronze! And d1, masters and challenger can be considered high elo.
Statistics of how many people are in (X) rank literally mean nothing when talking about skill in league. You are either playing the game optimally or you are making many mistakes. Plat and even low diamond players make plenty of mistakes, so it's appropriate to say low elo; its low skill gameplay.
There was nothing wrong with how ashe handled the first wave in the tristana matchup. What she should have done was only auto the second wave when tristana does. The second wave will cause the third to push back to ashe and leona and then they can run the enemy bot lane down when the fourth wave crashes (before the lane hits level 3 and morgana has black shield).
You know I have had so many games where my adc lost us the lane by poking the opponents instead of killing that those one or maybe 2 minions that would have gotten us lvl 2 earlier or at the same time as our opponents. This usually resulted in a lost fight with either me surviving and my adc dead, with my adc blaming me (and not even for the right reasons when I did in fact make a mistake).
As a Leona main that first game pains me to watch. I mean to be fair, I am new to the game and still learning, but I would like for the enemy champions to get to our turret before engaging, because then they can't run away before my E is up again and we will get at least one kill. If we meet in the middle I can try to go for a trade, but I am not taking turret damage to attack two full-health enemy champions. Also for fucks sake, the enemy lane doesn't have a strong aoe like a Lux, Senna or Neeko support would, so stay behind your Leona! Leona can't tank for you if you run ahead of her!
I had the exact opposite problem the other day. Now I normally duo bot with my boyfriend and have no issues but one guy in our draft lobby refused to switch so we rolled with it. I was playing samira was first pick as well support picked senna which was doable if not ideal. We were against an ahri and mordekaiser and what did he do help initiate heal at any point let the adc do their damn job of wave control and last hitting. Nope stole final hit at every possible opportunity and sat under tower doing fuck all and complaining about me feeding them when I got charmed dragged and anihalated over and over again because shocker the melee adc needs to be close to the minions in order to last hit them and I couldn't even let them shove to tower so I could get some protection because he just kept killing them. I spent that entire game raging at my boyfriend before after the fourth death to incompetence leaving that guy to try and hold bot and headed top with my boyfriend three or four levels behind and breathing fire. XD
I think it's because jinx was against a poke lane, so she doesn't want to just sit in Lane, while ashe was all in vs all in so if you get lvl 2 first but you aren't super pushed up you can all in them and zone from wave of kill them
I'm not sure whether my thinking is correct, buuut... Contesting the wave at the start is usually good choice for the lvl 2 power spike. The "problem" is that then the wave is pushed but it's super duper opportunity for mentioned in the video cheater's recall. Hardpushing the wave will bounce it back and then your support have good opportunity to engage. Anyway usually engage supports (I mean all-in ones) are useless till lvl 3 anyway so it doesn't matter that much that the second wave was pushed too far. Okay, it's not best scenario for sett BUT executing the cheater's recall strategy it makes it really good move in a long run. I actually think that it would be okay to execute the same strategy on Ashe+Leona, but Ashe didn't shoved the 3rd wave under turret and gave them free freeze (though you kinda can't freeze properly as a tristana, but whatever)
@@pobierac2183 it's fine on all in lanes I think if you're not against a poke lane since it's harder to abuse level 2 power Spike against poke lanes I think
fundamentals as low elo player play scaling champs cause the game will take u atleast 30 min support go for enchanter maybe u now how and when to engage but in the later stages of the game most of the time u dont (and often your team dont follow anyway and will spamm ping you) playing lane bullies (draven,lucian for example) puts you on a timer u need to get fed enough to carry the game fast enough so enemy scaling cant kick in for example lucian brand against twitch sona u are 2:0 lucian and 1:0 brand farm is quite even u got a little lead u might think u won the lane but trust me in like 10 min the twitch will obliterate your team cause u dont won hard enough and you are low elo so the game will take a while to end
How about I'm tired of my support taking kills I clearly had. Next thing you know my sups 4/0 and I'm 0/2/4. Granted this is unraked, but super annoying to feel useless later in game.
Wave management feels impossible if the enemy support is autoing me, while their adc hits wave. I always auto back the support and my duo q partner is always yuumi and just does nothing.
OK, how do I play around an AFK Yuumi that only actually plays game when someone on the team is fed and leaves me stranded against 2 much stronger bot laners?
I heard the term cheater recall, but I didn't know what it is. Turns out I just did this 2 days ago because i shoved 3 waves and had literally nothing to do so i went to buy and get mana. Is this primarily for a micro advantage of like a long sword / dagger / boots? Or more to reset your hp and mp resources?
If the enemy ADC was Caitlyn, who can easily kill your first three melees at once, is it fine for the Ashe in 1:19 auto-attacking the first wave so much? Sometimes I get to the lane faster as Ezreal, but when I want to execute a cheater recall, the enemy Ashe or Caitlyn could easily counter with their W or Q. What should I do then? Or, is Ezreal unable to execute a cheater recall against ADCs that can push waves faster?
What is the recall called when you do it early? Can't quite tell what you are saying, and I'm unfamiliar with the technique. 'Cheesy' or 'cheaty' or something?
Nevermind, some googling later and I found it's 'cheater recall'. Thanks, great guide for supports to understand as well! 😁 lol.gamepedia.com/Cheater_Recall
I've got a question. I asked recently about the cheater recall and a high elo player told me that is not efective anymore due to the last patches, is this right?
Then what do I do if I'm trying to keep good wave control but my support is actively working against me? I had a game with a Nautilus who, for reasons I will never understand, insisted on perma shoving the lane. To the point where he decided, after coming back to lane a bit late, that me holding a freeze with a clear item advantage was not how we should play the game and used his targon's and e to quickly push the wave out.
I recently had a botlane match playing Jinx w Leona vs Ezreal Swain. The lane started with leona leashing so I had to join in (if not then I would lane 1v2). By the time we arrived the lane was hard pushed and Leona was playing so far back that I just get poked to death. Knowing that I had no option but to leash, what could have been the solution to this lane?
But what if your support would rather run it down than play to win conditions (I ended up swapping to the support role from jungle because every game support fed fb then said jg diff.
I think this my problem with me as support I don't know when the opportunity to engage is. Also, how do I influence the wave? I mean sometimes I hit the wave and my ADC gets angry with me.
So it depends what type of support you're playing. If you're melee and they're ranged, the way you wanna manipulate the wave is that you want it to crash near your tower to freeze and all in. To do so you want them to have a larger number of minions and as soon as it starts being on your side, you wanna thin the wave out, using your support/minion demat (very good item to control waves) or auto if you feel like you can. A good bot lane duo will notice you're trying to freeze and will use spells and autos on the wave to make it crash and bounce back. Always adapt and auto harder to make sure the turret doesn't attack minions. Then know that your wave will come first and it will start slow pushing. You either keep it this way and use the massive wave to help you fight back, or hard shove and get a recall or to freeze again if you're already behind. If you're ranged, it's just the same concept but easier as you're not risking to get punished as you're trying to manipulate. Hope this helps
Also : ranged creeps are a rly good way to freeze and prevent them from pushing too hard to make it bounce back because even if they got lots of range, they will still need to walk further up to kill them, and that way you can punish. If you do that, they will usually leave the casters as they're worth less gold than melees and will rather focus on soaking xp up. That way, you'll usually find yourself in a situation where you got 3 casters left, and they have let's say two melees and 3 casters. If you're near tower and you wanna freeze, kill the melees asap to keep your minions healthy enough for them to then tank the enemy casters. Then keep the casters alive, until your next wave arrives, and you can either slow push if you don't know where mid/jung is, or if you see they're recalling you can hard shove and get some plates. But always push with a purpose. Never mindlessly auto attack minions
And to finish, you'll often find adcs constantly auto attacking the wave specially on low elo with some of them even having auto attack ticked in the settings. If they do that, always shove if possible, then go ward deep to prevent ganks and... Good luck cause he'll most likely die anyway 🥰🥰🥰
That’s stupid as fuck. If anything, getting the support to level 2 first would be better in most cases because the level 2/3 spike heavily lies with supports. Starving your support is asking to get all ind on level 2 or 3 when they literally cannot help your or counter engage. Like imagine a morg who is a level behind just throwing a pool down while Leona / Trist shit on your friends chest.
Jinx: showes as fast as she possibly can for a recall where she can't buy anything in the first place. Narrator: Jinx just sits in minigun allowing the wave to bounce back
if she has done her cs'ing right then after the 3th wave she should be able to buy another dorans blade and get back to lane before the enemy can push the wave into jinx tower and with that you would have 1 more dorans blade than the enemy adc which is a dmg and life steal advantage
In the last example with Jinx, I would've backed off and warded Bot-Scuttle and let the Wave bounce back. Isn't that just as good as the cheater recall? You can bait enemy jungler to waste his time bot and are still healthy enough for an all in with Sett, when the wave is back in the middle.
No, because the wave will still end up at the same spot and not bounce back, giving them a free freeze, u lose minions' gold and exp. When you have more minions than them, always try to shove it into the tower and watch out for ganks beacuse you are blowing all your cooldowns on the wave. Always be aware of the number of minions on both side and the timing of wave coming to the lane, and then you will recognize whether the wave will freeze near their turret, slowing pushing towards you or crash into their tower.
@@Stephen-hy2wf Well true in theory, but almost no one ever freezes that early, when the enemy adc is still in lane or at least not basing. I even must admit, that I NEVER encountered it. Elo is Plat 3 to Plat 1.
Can we talk about that game where I was one minion away from level 3 for half a minute because my ADC refused to kill a singular minion so I eventually just said "Fuck it, doing it myself!" and eventually my ADC bought a support item and I sold mine because I ended up having 5 times their cs simply from going for last-hits they appearently showed no interest in figuring that it's better for me to get a small amount of gold from that than for nobody to get any gold from that?
The first situation in this guide simply doesn't work. Trist+morg out shoves ashe+leona in lvl 1, and 2. Its demonstrable that ashe cannot push fast enough for a cheater recall to happen. Also due to the black shield interaction with leona (morg can reactively put shield after leona lands E), the only timing for all-in lethal is when morg is pre-3 while ashe+leona is 3. Thus, ashe's win condition is to have a lane-state amiable to all-in and hit 3 first. This is actually not possible since there is not a scenario for both things (lane state and hit 3 first) to happen.
Hi ! I'm main support and sometimes I too have problems with ADCs. After reading the comments I think majority of problems between us you guys mention, are just a lack of communication or miscommunication. Hear me out. Pings are quick but can be bothersome, especially if used like spam. 1-2 pings should do the work, more and you might be not taken seriously. If 1-2 pings are not effective, they might be not effective at all and be bothersome to other teammates - resulting in your pings being muted by others. Be clean with them. If something is going badly on the lane, type it out to your partner! If you come to ranked game with mindset that every support is either stupid, useless, or should be always listening to you - well then I guess you shall not rank up and not have a good day, not mentioning the lost game. Quick typing a couple of words or sentences without any mean intention might be not effective in terms of seconds or even 1-2 minutes but might save you laning-phase or even the entire game! Talk about your strategy with your partner! Of course, not everyone will be communicative and might be stubborn or may ignore your strategy going with their own thing. To that you have videos like this one. Remember also that there is a mute button! It is ALWAYS better to mute someone triggered than to get involved in an argument. But ... Sometimes we are just wrong. I don't want to count how many times have I been completely wrong, but there were times where ADC was wrong. Sometimes it might work out to just listen to your partner which is not agreeing to your strategy. Having an open mind and thinking that sometimes you're wrong -> might do you right. Have a nice day o/
Im so confused. In the beginning you are saying that ashe pushing early is the reasom why she lost the lane. Later in the video you are constantly telling that it is not good to not push. Can someone please elaborate on why pushing is bad and then suddenly good ? I feel like joining an advanced math class without understanding the fundamentals.
You should always push in a way that allows you to hit level 2 before the enemy duo because a level 2 all in vs the enemy lvl1 duo is a free way to win the lane. You should be careful to keep the wave as close to the middle of the lane as you can while getting a minion advantage. If you push too fast, the wave will be too close to the enemy tower for you to all in. So, if the enemy has to leash and you dont, make sure to only auto like 2 times before they are there to not overpush. If the enemy is contesting the push however, you also have to push harder to win. This is why in the first example ashe pushed too hard and in the second one she didnt push hard enough.
When does ashe leona lvl 2 ever beat tristana morg lvl 2? I'd argue that ashe played it right game one. Shove the wave, since trist will naturally push it. Dont look for an all in on lvl 2 you lose. Get the wave bouncing back on wave 3 so you can be middle of the lane to your side by their lvl 3 all in. Denies them the chance of any cheater recalls and denies their strongest all in points. It' actually how you should play that match up to a T by removing your opponents options and scaling into yours
In low elo Tristana players never E the wave to shove. I see this all the time, but Tristana players are *so* afraid to wave manage they always get shoved in because they don't use their one tool for effective wave clearing to get control over the wave at all. Also, if Morgana starts E second, she has less damage because either she started W at which point she cannot do any real damage to you, or she has Q first which does good damage and disengage, but she now has no way to help with wave management and poke you out. Morgana's E is also on a very long cooldown early, so if Ashe and Leona play it right, they can abuse that cooldown window to all in on the Morgana. Tristana is more difficult since she can just jump away.
@@entropicplays162 which is why i said ashe played it right. The vid said he should've done a,b,c and then you win this match up. But leona never has pressure over morg and trist always beats ashe without a good ult. So i dont know why they said to ever plan to fight during this match up
As a top main I can honestly say that both supports and adcs in low elo are trash and can't manipulate the wave. As I had my fair share of autofill bot as support/adc the most frustrating things are that I can't freeze even if I type it out and ping. And when I do manage to freeze well my supp dont know what to do which tilts the fuck out of me so I type look for all in or ward etc but that's a 40%chance they will actually listen. Getting autofilled bot is really just a coin flip to me honestly.
Depends on how good you are at cs and lane/matchup, but I believe that a dblade is possible. If not I know some tops will take a cloth armor or you could grab like a long sword or even boots if the matchup requires it. I have also seen some adcs back quick for a cull if we know that we’re just gonna be passive after that first push. As support if I can’t really do anything else since wards aren’t up or we’re not getting scuttle I’ll back for boots or a fairy charm (resell value is good even if you’re not an enchanter)
What do we make for the next ADC guide? Keep the suggestions coming! =)
Kitting (attack move) tips
Support guide??
About rotations as adc, how to rotate, where and when.
more macro
You mantioned about the three type of botlane as a triangle. You could make a guide about how to win lane if you are in disadvantage (like what should a pke lade do to win vs a sustain lane)
That cait in the 2nd example has dark harvest. That’s how you know it’s a genuine silver game
Not gonna lie I've been playing / having success on dh lethality Cait in mid dia
I was watching along like hmm yes all makes sense
Then Cait landed q and got a DH stack and I spit my fucking drink
These comments didn't age well.
@@OrigIswed they didn't? I haven't seen any DH Caits lately
@@adamnesbitt11 well not specifically Cait but quite a few bottoms are running DH with lethality stacking.
Huge example of this lack of awareness: when the ADC specifically requests an all-in support, but they shove the wave to tower and keep it there. If you want a Leona, play around the Leona. If you're going to shove, let the support choose a poke champion and complement your play style. Also, ADCs choosing champions that don't synergise with their Support.
Sinergy pick isnt pretty stupid?
@UCpSloSUq_SG8dfx4f_x08hQ But if i ask my support, not to pick Yuumi, Soraka, Sona, or Lulu, and they pick one, and they force me to play in a way i don't like, and i'm not comfortable with, then who's fault is it? Mine, of course, because i can't play passively, and definietly not yours, because you suck at agressive plays.
And if your job is to mitigate damage, then why the fuck you don't? Always leaving me in a bad spot, because you lack heal, and your early is complete trash. You need 2 items at least to do anything, and of course, if we lose lane, because you can't heal shit, but the enemy Thresh can lock me down for 3 years, then it's my fault, because i can't dodge EVERY SINGLE ABILITY. Because you heal around 140 every 15 sec, and you can do this 3 times, before you're out of mana, you don't have cc, and don't have damage, you're also paper, and die from literally anything.
The playstyle of these enchanter "E-Girl" supports, is to let the adc die alone, then help the rest of the team. Or at least in low elo.
And when your adc gets dived by 4 people, no matter what support you play, it's the ADC's fault. So he's noob, and leave him alone for the rest of the game.
The real fundamental of the bot lane, is to trust your PARTNER.
EDIT: because it seems like way too many people misunderstands this comment, i'm going to try and clear up everything.
This comment ISN'T ABOUT MYSELF. The first part is about that in theese comments Supports write, like everything is the adc's fault. What I wrote down is not that it is only the Support's fault, that he can't play agressively, but it is both the adc's fault and the adc, but from the sentence It comes to me, as "only the adc should adapt, whatever the support does, is perfect" ( I still don't think it's understandable, but let me try Support says, that "It's really hard, when the ADC wants me to play agressively from the champ select, but i can't so i play Soraka, and he still plays agressively" This is just an example, don't get tilted. What i feel like he meant is: "ADC is so stupid, he should adapt to my playstyle, and shouldn't expect ME, to adapt to theirs" In this scenario, both the ADC and Support is bad, and both should work on playing differently. I hope you unterstand it this way.
The Second part was complete garbage from my part, i'm sorry for that, i was pretty tilted yesterday, so in that point, you're completly right to tilt on it, it was my fault, sorry.
TBH, Enchanters can be great, and really bad. It all depends, because sometimes i get insane healing from my soraka, and we carry, but in other games, Soraka is less skilled, or new to the champion, or i have no idea, but i don't get any heal. You might be awsome with soraka, but i also encoutered a lot of Soraka/Sona/Yuumi players, who were simply bad at the game/new to the champ....
For the 4 man dive part, i want you to know, that it is a Dive. Not a simple gank/roam. You ward perfectly, both of you, you see the enemy coming, and go back under tower, then you get ulted by Malphite, and there is nothing you can do. Your adc dies for the first time, in a situation you both had no actual chanche of survival at that point. You get behind, and at that point, you look at your adc being 20 cs behind, and 0/2/1. You either feel like, "it's ok, we can still come back", but usually, the supports I meet, doesn't trust me at this point, that we can come back, since i died 2 times already, and i'm really behind, so just leaves and tries to help the rest of the team.
@@barnykirashi well fuckin said brother 😭
Sett, A Ring Királya As a support main egirl, you’re exactly the kind of adc I leave to die alone. “Because I can’t dodge EVERY SINGLE ABILITY.” Yeah, and I can’t either. And I’m out of mana from the shield you literally never notice because you’re not bothering to track my cooldowns or the enemies. And we get attacked by 4 people because you have no vision of the enemy jungler or midlander but decided to push the wave anyway. And even though you’re making bad plays, you’re still flaming me for both being a useless champion AND not fixing all of your mistakes. The way I quit being hardstuck was realizing roaming and even outright leaving lane is better than trying to plug up the hole of a bad adc. The job of the support is to keep the win condition alive. If your support keeps leaving you, that’s a sign. Trash talk less. Improve more.
@@barnykirashi Just play sinergy as your support style and it easy win for me even he play Soraka. Her just only need to press W and much as possible to win the lane. And if your support seem noob. Just abandon him. Act like they didn't there at all just farming as wait for team play in mid game save all your spell for save yourself at all cost. Easy
By the bot lane main (sup+adc) I can guarantee it work as this guide guided you.
Challenge for Hector:
Have him play a ranked game, on his main account on a role and champion that he is comfortable with.
give the guy a break :D
Yeah, he deserves it!
How about... NO
Yes. And taser him repeatedly while he does it!!!
No if we let Hector use 100% of his power he will destroy the universe
I can't blame my ADC for poor lane control as a support main. It's my fault because I didn't share the video with them.
Don't make my mistake, share the video.
I just ask my adc what kind of adc they r...when someone picks Kai sa I ask if they want 2 play early rlly aggressive and pick something like panth or naut try 2 lane until 6 if lane not working start roam but not before 6 and at least normal boots
@@lars8991 Ah, that would really help ot my laning phase and LP 😅Thanks for sharing
I'm here with candy so see whether I can lure a support main back to my lane. Here's why it would be worth playing with me:
1. I watch all the ADC content on SkillCapped.
2. I understand wave mechanics, and wave positioning.
3. My micro is clean, with 600k mastery on Jinx and 1.1million on Kaisa
4. Because I primarily play Kaisa, I have become extremely proficient at identifying windows of opportunity for all-ins, and chunks.
5. I understand the laning objectives of all botlane matchups.
6. I am a very solid communicator over comms
7. If our jungler fucks up a gank, and blames you for their mistakes, I will flame them with you.
8. I also play DOTA 2 in addition to our children's game.
9. I know not to bother wasting time standing at an objective we can't contest.
10. I always look to cross-map and take turrets/enemycamps if my team does something silly and gives up a free objective.
I'm presently gold 4, though my game statistics indicate that I'm playing at a diamond Level in terms of objective control, and a master level in terms of CS. My vision game absolutely needs work, though, as it is consistent with my present rank.
My favorite statistic is the fact that I average +230gp early gold advantage (despite playing primarily Kaisa, one of the shortest ranged ADCs).
If I sound like I'm worth playing with, add me: ElectricKoolaid
And we'll see whether we synergize.
I prefer a hyper aggressive all-in lane, but I'll play around anything if you're good.
It's cool that you showed similiar situation in 1st and 3rd clip. As you mentioned in one of your videos before, it's better to learn when you repeat exact same concept.
whenever i try to cheat a recall my support spam pings me and proceeds to type in chat: "wtf are u doing" feelsbadman
After bingewatching like 6 videos of you, i jumped in a game as an adc and absolutely stomped :0 these videos are actually super helpful
You didn’t say what to do when your top or mid has 5+ deaths in 14 minutes while your 1/0/1
same goes as a main top with a bot lane 2/8 @14. I think more often than not, the best bot lane wins the game, at least in high plat/low diamond.
@@vitor2557 lmaooo no Botlane legit has such low impact on the game. The games now are mostly jgl/mid diff.
@@frockz69 Jg diff and top diff. mid not so much unless mid roams otherwise mid-game jg and top diff big time! because if you win bot you can kill mid but it is so hard to kill top if super fed. fed top can 1 v 2 you or 1 v 9 a mid can't 1 v 2 yet unless roam. In gold/silver elo they don't xD
@@kareem5653 imo, in terms of role importance, it's jgl > mid > top > supp > adc
@@frockz69 I agree in terms of importance but in terms of impact it is jg> top > adc if really fed or mid > AP sup > adc this in low elo
Tired of getting carried by your Supports?
Every ADC ever: NO!
More like tired of being inted
I quite honestly wanted to hit not interested in this channel because of this title.
My chances are best when I treat the bot lane as a 1v2 knowing full well my support will 90% of my matches go neg KD. I am the CARRY afterall but support should be renamed enabler. Like yummi and a bunch of other wanna be supports, they end up just watching 1v2s. dying more often than just remaining 0/0 and I always out ward and vision score my supps.
I have urged for smaller teams with ranked and maybe a smaller map.
Twisted treeline etc
1v1 2v2 or 3v3 but hella even just drop support or jungle too many variables and lazy gamers wanting wins while not even doing at least their 20%
I carry my sup tho
@@jmanriquez5184 Man this happened to me yesterday lmao, my zyra support kept flaming me because she kept getting caught and ended up dying everytime... Like at least if you're not gonna do much poke, at least don't die... (by minute 10 she was 0/5)
At this point the lane was fucked, I was playing kaisa vs lux/cait so I kept getting poked down. But yeah, not gonna lie, that game, I really didn't play the lane well after she fed so I ended up feeding too, started the game 0/4. Then zyra had the audacity to say "I don't want to play with this adc anymore"...
Turns out, after getting killed by a roaming talon a few times. A few bad fights occured on their part and I ended up picking a few kills and started snowballing, then, carrying the late game. I finished 18/9/5... Never heard zyra complain about me again lol. (thank god my mid laner was doing great too and enabled us to stall for a bit)
@@jmanriquez5184 if you're out warding your supports you gotta get out of bronze lol
When I try to freeze my supports always shove, then when enemy is recalled and I’m trying to shove they sit in Bush afk instead of shoving with me
That being said I know that’s not what’s stopping me from climbing, just a complaint
The amount of Times my Support breaks the freeze because he kills the cannon minion early to get the gold is incredible :D on the topic of pushing tho, use the help me ping on the Wave. Most supports will help you if you do.
Honeybadger_SC yea sup main, one tiny ping and we are usually there. Just have to ask
always? every single game???
Image Kid kind of. I play support and i know when to shove and freeze but adcs need to say when they want to do it. Other wise all you want to do is shove and roam. Address it it’s not that hard or hope your support knows when to shove and say only help me shove don’t touch the minions till then. Not hard
@@fishfishrun1207 true
Every ADC needs to watch this video. As a supp main I can run 80% of the lane, but I can't control the wave by myself.
Hector Challenge: Left Handed mouse, right handed keyboard. 5 minutes in training tool to swap settings before 1 game to complete challenge.
When i try to manage the wave and my morgana uses her w on casters and takes them as well and shes like : im trying yo harass them.
Me: Im the one you're harassing
Just in case, supp role is to carry adc to make him strong for late so in my opinion that's just the normal way of playing adc to be carried by supp.
I always hesitate to cheat recall with Xayah tbh, I find the double doran's not so good on her cause she needs attack speed quickly to deal damage. Is it really worth it?
The idea of a cheater recall is to gain a slight item and hp/mana advantage over your enemy. You can opt for a dagger if you want to prioritize Attack speed.
@@manapple6 ooh ok ty for the tip, I didn't even think about that
Why would you ever get tired of being carried by your support? It's such a blissful feeling when I get autofilled.
0:20 [...]Also the support pick is very often what dictates how the bot lane matchup will go as ADC picks are farm or homogenous. You have a huge range of playstyles and strenghts among supports while a lot of ADCs generally do similar things.[...]
You see now why mages bot lane, Yasuo bot lane, Garen/Yuumi duo, Lux/Sona duo, Taliyah/Pantheon duo and similars are good things? Marksmen are basically the same champions.
Varus is a pick that stands out building lethality and opting for a poke build? Let's nerf the hell out of his base damage AD ratios, give him base attack speed instead to force him into the bork rageblade build there's already a billion players taking.
Essence Reaver+Tri-force comet Ashe? Not seen in ages. Lethality marksmen? Other than Varus, not seen in ages. Everytime something new shows up bot lane, a portion of the community that isn't willing to change complains, Riot tries to force that 10 years old, clearly outdated playstyle, back into the meta and the role ends up sucking.
Something similar happened in season 7 and we ended up with the abomination that was ardent censer meta. And earlier this season, in top lane, where riot tried so hard to force an outdated playstyle down top lane gullet they've created the new death's dance that's so incredibly overpowered that warps not only the top lane meta, but other roles as well, albeit to a lesser extent, around who can or cannot use the item. Post nerfs conqueror isn't a big deal anymore, but bork is still problematic.
so I noticed that since signing up on SC, I don't really watch the youtube content anymore, and I can imagine a large portion of subs doing the same.
This means that if you guys are making good video's, in the sense that you get the most amount of new subscribers, that also means that your amount of views will drop, so the algorithm will pick up on the negative impact. Would that make a difference? Is it a significant influence? Just a random thought
top lane guide pleasee :( , im stuck in diamond
love you guys 🙃
same bro Im stuck in diamond im totally not less than 1% of the player base I feel ur pain bro
you show me a perfect tresh read in the start and immediately make me wanna play tresh
Challenge for Hector:
Let him play on his main account in a challenger match applying everything he teaches. My boy could use a break
I'd love to see a full list of bot lane champs that fall into the categories of Sustain, Poke, and All In. I can guess but I'd rather get it from the experts
The thing is, they can change. Like I would classify lucian as an all in but if he gets paired up with a poke champ then he should use Q to poke.
@@gabrielq8454 I agree, and they know all the different variables that can come into play, so would be good to hear that
Good thing i learned that when i need to recall i need to atleast push the wave or stack them then push them or just freeze the wave and let the enemy adc recall before i recall so that the enemy adc cant get a plate or two. Even tho i got this on my mind i cant climb because remember adc role isnt a 1v9 role that can 1v5 everything
8:38 dark harvest proc lmao
It's been 84 years since the last top lane guide.
Can people stop saying this? The adc can't do anything without a support and vice versa (or so it should be), they are roles that require coordination and teamwork and not just the individual skill of the player.
Sorry I've just seen a lot of bad botlanes thinking that they're each meant to 1v5
Hector Challenge: He should play jungle but isn't allowed to take his own camps.
EDIT: Ups sorry. I just want Hector to suffer.
not really sorry :)
now thats a thing that id like to see
River Shen River shen
That's just river shen with more steps
Hector plays Teemo support while tripping on shrooms
But that won't teach anyone anything, that's taking away macro, instead of forcing it.
- You hard push
Skillcapped: haha noob you didnt slow push to create a cheat recall.
- You slow push
Skillcapped: haha noob you didnt hard push to get a level 2 advantage vs the enemy bot.
Conclusion: me noob.
If you execute a cheater recall correctly, you’ll still get lvl 2 before your opponents
Idk if this is a part of joke but if u push hard u cant use lvl 2 advantage, u have to push enough to get lvl 2 before them and zone them so they cant hit the wave, better u can start fight 2v2 u will win anyway whatever ur support and ADC
If you are going to make an example like this, could you show where a clip where the ADC/supp do what they're supposed to do and being rewarded or winning the lane? Being told what's wrong is good, but I feel like we'd learn better if we see to what happened or how it'd be if we're doing right.
The right kind of lol education we need !
It always strikes me as a little silly when people say "low elo" when talking about Silver, Gold and platinum.. that's "average elo", not low elo. Low elo would be iron and bronze! And d1, masters and challenger can be considered high elo.
I don't think to recognize average until plat rank.
@@C-Handle But like 80-85% of players are in Gold and below. Thus, "average" is somewhere around high silver.
Well I guess when you are all Challenger everything is low elo. They even consider Diamond low elo.
[C] plat is the top ~10% of players, definitely above average
Statistics of how many people are in (X) rank literally mean nothing when talking about skill in league. You are either playing the game optimally or you are making many mistakes. Plat and even low diamond players make plenty of mistakes, so it's appropriate to say low elo; its low skill gameplay.
Hector tries to carry after giving his shutdown to enemy every time he has one. After all, this is how most games are turned in low elo.
There was nothing wrong with how ashe handled the first wave in the tristana matchup. What she should have done was only auto the second wave when tristana does. The second wave will cause the third to push back to ashe and leona and then they can run the enemy bot lane down when the fourth wave crashes (before the lane hits level 3 and morgana has black shield).
You know I have had so many games where my adc lost us the lane by poking the opponents instead of killing that those one or maybe 2 minions that would have gotten us lvl 2 earlier or at the same time as our opponents.
This usually resulted in a lost fight with either me surviving and my adc dead, with my adc blaming me (and not even for the right reasons when I did in fact make a mistake).
Have you guys done a video how to slow push and recall on 3 wave?
I am now at 1 win and 2 losses following these challenger guides
Man I wish I could sign up. Great video!
Can we have more support guides? I feel like I have very low carry potential but I think it’s possible to carry as support
I just do Sivir with manamune nowadays. No more laning phase at all because I instantly delete the wave...
Read the title and got hopeful, then read "as ADC" and got disappointed
Seratina exactly, now I have another excuse to leave lane
Cmon they have made enough support guides... (would love to see a support guide like this for roaming or something, but we cant do anything)
As a Leona main that first game pains me to watch. I mean to be fair, I am new to the game and still learning, but I would like for the enemy champions to get to our turret before engaging, because then they can't run away before my E is up again and we will get at least one kill. If we meet in the middle I can try to go for a trade, but I am not taking turret damage to attack two full-health enemy champions. Also for fucks sake, the enemy lane doesn't have a strong aoe like a Lux, Senna or Neeko support would, so stay behind your Leona! Leona can't tank for you if you run ahead of her!
I had the exact opposite problem the other day. Now I normally duo bot with my boyfriend and have no issues but one guy in our draft lobby refused to switch so we rolled with it. I was playing samira was first pick as well support picked senna which was doable if not ideal. We were against an ahri and mordekaiser and what did he do help initiate heal at any point let the adc do their damn job of wave control and last hitting. Nope stole final hit at every possible opportunity and sat under tower doing fuck all and complaining about me feeding them when I got charmed dragged and anihalated over and over again because shocker the melee adc needs to be close to the minions in order to last hit them and I couldn't even let them shove to tower so I could get some protection because he just kept killing them. I spent that entire game raging at my boyfriend before after the fourth death to incompetence leaving that guy to try and hold bot and headed top with my boyfriend three or four levels behind and breathing fire. XD
@@dragonsreingsupreme1 Yikes
I actually think it's vise versa I mostly see ADC writing to me that I carry you so bad word and don't tell me to play safe
I don‘t get it... Why should Ashe not push with All-In-Leona Support, but Jinx shall push with All-In-Sett Support?
I think it's because jinx was against a poke lane, so she doesn't want to just sit in Lane, while ashe was all in vs all in so if you get lvl 2 first but you aren't super pushed up you can all in them and zone from wave of kill them
I'm not sure whether my thinking is correct, buuut...
Contesting the wave at the start is usually good choice for the lvl 2 power spike. The "problem" is that then the wave is pushed but it's super duper opportunity for mentioned in the video cheater's recall. Hardpushing the wave will bounce it back and then your support have good opportunity to engage.
Anyway usually engage supports (I mean all-in ones) are useless till lvl 3 anyway so it doesn't matter that much that the second wave was pushed too far. Okay, it's not best scenario for sett BUT executing the cheater's recall strategy it makes it really good move in a long run.
I actually think that it would be okay to execute the same strategy on Ashe+Leona, but Ashe didn't shoved the 3rd wave under turret and gave them free freeze (though you kinda can't freeze properly as a tristana, but whatever)
@@pobierac2183 it's fine on all in lanes I think if you're not against a poke lane since it's harder to abuse level 2 power Spike against poke lanes I think
Sett is also really good at tower dives so that might play a role
fundamentals as low elo player
play scaling champs cause the game will take u atleast 30 min
support go for enchanter
maybe u now how and when to engage but in the later stages of the game most of the time u dont (and often your team dont follow anyway and will spamm ping you)
playing lane bullies (draven,lucian for example) puts you on a timer u need to get fed enough to carry the game fast enough so enemy scaling cant kick in
for example lucian brand against twitch sona u are 2:0 lucian and 1:0 brand farm is quite even u got a little lead u might think u won the lane but trust me in like 10 min the twitch will obliterate your team cause u dont won hard enough and you are low elo so the game will take a while to end
Was there a reason Morgana's Black Shield wasn't mentioned @2:40? Or would that make things to complicated for low elo?
How about I'm tired of my support taking kills I clearly had. Next thing you know my sups 4/0 and I'm 0/2/4. Granted this is unraked, but super annoying to feel useless later in game.
Does Jhin consider as a poke champion or an all in champion? I’ve been playing it very reserved and only punish enemy’s mistake
first video you say the ashe is bad for pushing but in the others you encourage pushing the lane? im a bit confused
What can you buy after clearing 3 waves and cheat recall? I am a beginner :)
Wave management feels impossible if the enemy support is autoing me, while their adc hits wave. I always auto back the support and my duo q partner is always yuumi and just does nothing.
but what do you buy when you do a cheater recall on adc? like a dagger or a dorans blade or what?
So we're not gonna talk about the Dark Harvest Caitlyn here? 8:39.
Is there a chart so I can study this and climb?
How and when to start with adc or support in solo queue? There is almost no way to play a safe and controlled match.
OK, how do I play around an AFK Yuumi that only actually plays game when someone on the team is fed and leaves me stranded against 2 much stronger bot laners?
You dont .
Sorry i meant you cant.
How to know when had you overpushed?
8:39 wait they lost to a dark harvest Caitlyn
I heard the term cheater recall, but I didn't know what it is. Turns out I just did this 2 days ago because i shoved 3 waves and had literally nothing to do so i went to buy and get mana. Is this primarily for a micro advantage of like a long sword / dagger / boots? Or more to reset your hp and mp resources?
The wave is in my control until morg w the wave and fucke everything
Normally i'm pretty offensive on lane but if supp is really just standing nearby I only farm
But what matters the wave wheny brand sup flashes into the enemy pyke and then stands there and in aa him?
If the enemy ADC was Caitlyn, who can easily kill your first three melees at once, is it fine for the Ashe in 1:19 auto-attacking the first wave so much?
Sometimes I get to the lane faster as Ezreal, but when I want to execute a cheater recall, the enemy Ashe or Caitlyn could easily counter with their W or Q. What should I do then? Or, is Ezreal unable to execute a cheater recall against ADCs that can push waves faster?
What is the recall called when you do it early? Can't quite tell what you are saying, and I'm unfamiliar with the technique. 'Cheesy' or 'cheaty' or something?
Nevermind, some googling later and I found it's 'cheater recall'. Thanks, great guide for supports to understand as well! 😁
lol.gamepedia.com/Cheater_Recall
I've got a question. I asked recently about the cheater recall and a high elo player told me that is not efective anymore due to the last patches, is this right?
Then what do I do if I'm trying to keep good wave control but my support is actively working against me?
I had a game with a Nautilus who, for reasons I will never understand, insisted on perma shoving the lane. To the point where he decided, after coming back to lane a bit late, that me holding a freeze with a clear item advantage was not how we should play the game and used his targon's and e to quickly push the wave out.
How do you play a sustain champ in lane?
I recently had a botlane match playing Jinx w Leona vs Ezreal Swain.
The lane started with leona leashing so I had to join in (if not then I would lane 1v2). By the time we arrived the lane was hard pushed and Leona was playing so far back that I just get poked to death.
Knowing that I had no option but to leash, what could have been the solution to this lane?
But what if your support would rather run it down than play to win conditions (I ended up swapping to the support role from jungle because every game support fed fb then said jg diff.
I think this my problem with me as support I don't know when the opportunity to engage is. Also, how do I influence the wave? I mean sometimes I hit the wave and my ADC gets angry with me.
Mute all and if they tilt tell them I have a challenger coach
@@Eyezik123 Oh I don't mute it doesn't really bother me to see flame in chat.
So it depends what type of support you're playing. If you're melee and they're ranged, the way you wanna manipulate the wave is that you want it to crash near your tower to freeze and all in. To do so you want them to have a larger number of minions and as soon as it starts being on your side, you wanna thin the wave out, using your support/minion demat (very good item to control waves) or auto if you feel like you can. A good bot lane duo will notice you're trying to freeze and will use spells and autos on the wave to make it crash and bounce back. Always adapt and auto harder to make sure the turret doesn't attack minions. Then know that your wave will come first and it will start slow pushing. You either keep it this way and use the massive wave to help you fight back, or hard shove and get a recall or to freeze again if you're already behind.
If you're ranged, it's just the same concept but easier as you're not risking to get punished as you're trying to manipulate. Hope this helps
Also : ranged creeps are a rly good way to freeze and prevent them from pushing too hard to make it bounce back because even if they got lots of range, they will still need to walk further up to kill them, and that way you can punish. If you do that, they will usually leave the casters as they're worth less gold than melees and will rather focus on soaking xp up. That way, you'll usually find yourself in a situation where you got 3 casters left, and they have let's say two melees and 3 casters. If you're near tower and you wanna freeze, kill the melees asap to keep your minions healthy enough for them to then tank the enemy casters. Then keep the casters alive, until your next wave arrives, and you can either slow push if you don't know where mid/jung is, or if you see they're recalling you can hard shove and get some plates. But always push with a purpose. Never mindlessly auto attack minions
And to finish, you'll often find adcs constantly auto attacking the wave specially on low elo with some of them even having auto attack ticked in the settings. If they do that, always shove if possible, then go ward deep to prevent ganks and... Good luck cause he'll most likely die anyway 🥰🥰🥰
Im support player. My duo adc friend. When we have to leash i just leash while he goes to lane to get solo xp while i leash.
That’s stupid as fuck. If anything, getting the support to level 2 first would be better in most cases because the level 2/3 spike heavily lies with supports. Starving your support is asking to get all ind on level 2 or 3 when they literally cannot help your or counter engage. Like imagine a morg who is a level behind just throwing a pool down while Leona / Trist shit on your friends chest.
Jinx: showes as fast as she possibly can for a recall where she can't buy anything in the first place.
Narrator: Jinx just sits in minigun allowing the wave to bounce back
if she has done her cs'ing right then after the 3th wave she should be able to buy another dorans blade and get back to lane before the enemy can push the wave into jinx tower and with that you would have 1 more dorans blade than the enemy adc which is a dmg and life steal advantage
Odd question, what music is playing at around 8:41?
In the last example with Jinx, I would've backed off and warded Bot-Scuttle and let the Wave bounce back. Isn't that just as good as the cheater recall? You can bait enemy jungler to waste his time bot and are still healthy enough for an all in with Sett, when the wave is back in the middle.
No, because the wave will still end up at the same spot and not bounce back, giving them a free freeze, u lose minions' gold and exp. When you have more minions than them, always try to shove it into the tower and watch out for ganks beacuse you are blowing all your cooldowns on the wave. Always be aware of the number of minions on both side and the timing of wave coming to the lane, and then you will recognize whether the wave will freeze near their turret, slowing pushing towards you or crash into their tower.
@@Stephen-hy2wf Well true in theory, but almost no one ever freezes that early, when the enemy adc is still in lane or at least not basing. I even must admit, that I NEVER encountered it. Elo is Plat 3 to Plat 1.
Can we talk about that game where I was one minion away from level 3 for half a minute because my ADC refused to kill a singular minion so I eventually just said "Fuck it, doing it myself!" and eventually my ADC bought a support item and I sold mine because I ended up having 5 times their cs simply from going for last-hits they appearently showed no interest in figuring that it's better for me to get a small amount of gold from that than for nobody to get any gold from that?
3:06 Ashe out trades Tristana? Is Tristana's Q or E level 1 a joke to you? Hello?
As an adc should you push if u have an engage supp
Still relevant to this day
im a platinum adc, this video feels like a personal attack
The first situation in this guide simply doesn't work. Trist+morg out shoves ashe+leona in lvl 1, and 2. Its demonstrable that ashe cannot push fast enough for a cheater recall to happen. Also due to the black shield interaction with leona (morg can reactively put shield after leona lands E), the only timing for all-in lethal is when morg is pre-3 while ashe+leona is 3. Thus, ashe's win condition is to have a lane-state amiable to all-in and hit 3 first. This is actually not possible since there is not a scenario for both things (lane state and hit 3 first) to happen.
My Support is usually Xerath, I'm okay with him getting fed.
How to play early game junglers... reksai, lee sin, everything that doesnt carry late game
what i learned, adc's control the wave.
Whats that fleet footwork, dark harvest bot lane? Haha
Music used in the video?
Did..... did that Caitlin really have dark harvest? My soul....
Tired? Im waiting for this to finally happen
Hi !
I'm main support and sometimes I too have problems with ADCs. After reading the comments I think majority of problems between us you guys mention, are just a lack of communication or miscommunication.
Hear me out.
Pings are quick but can be bothersome, especially if used like spam. 1-2 pings should do the work, more and you might be not taken seriously. If 1-2 pings are not effective, they might be not effective at all and be bothersome to other teammates - resulting in your pings being muted by others. Be clean with them.
If something is going badly on the lane, type it out to your partner! If you come to ranked game with mindset that every support is either stupid, useless, or should be always listening to you - well then I guess you shall not rank up and not have a good day, not mentioning the lost game.
Quick typing a couple of words or sentences without any mean intention might be not effective in terms of seconds or even 1-2 minutes but might save you laning-phase or even the entire game! Talk about your strategy with your partner!
Of course, not everyone will be communicative and might be stubborn or may ignore your strategy going with their own thing. To that you have videos like this one. Remember also that there is a mute button! It is ALWAYS better to mute someone triggered than to get involved in an argument.
But ... Sometimes we are just wrong. I don't want to count how many times have I been completely wrong, but there were times where ADC was wrong. Sometimes it might work out to just listen to your partner which is not agreeing to your strategy. Having an open mind and thinking that sometimes you're wrong -> might do you right.
Have a nice day o/
Im so confused. In the beginning you are saying that ashe pushing early is the reasom why she lost the lane. Later in the video you are constantly telling that it is not good to not push. Can someone please elaborate on why pushing is bad and then suddenly good ? I feel like joining an advanced math class without understanding the fundamentals.
You should always push in a way that allows you to hit level 2 before the enemy duo because a level 2 all in vs the enemy lvl1 duo is a free way to win the lane. You should be careful to keep the wave as close to the middle of the lane as you can while getting a minion advantage. If you push too fast, the wave will be too close to the enemy tower for you to all in. So, if the enemy has to leash and you dont, make sure to only auto like 2 times before they are there to not overpush. If the enemy is contesting the push however, you also have to push harder to win. This is why in the first example ashe pushed too hard and in the second one she didnt push hard enough.
@@nickeastmusic9930 Thanks for the reply
I began not believing what i was watching when i heard "ashe outrades tristana"
How is no one talking about that early clip where thresh dragged caitlyn over the fucking wall with just Q? Lmfao
When does ashe leona lvl 2 ever beat tristana morg lvl 2? I'd argue that ashe played it right game one. Shove the wave, since trist will naturally push it. Dont look for an all in on lvl 2 you lose. Get the wave bouncing back on wave 3 so you can be middle of the lane to your side by their lvl 3 all in. Denies them the chance of any cheater recalls and denies their strongest all in points. It' actually how you should play that match up to a T by removing your opponents options and scaling into yours
In low elo Tristana players never E the wave to shove. I see this all the time, but Tristana players are *so* afraid to wave manage they always get shoved in because they don't use their one tool for effective wave clearing to get control over the wave at all.
Also, if Morgana starts E second, she has less damage because either she started W at which point she cannot do any real damage to you, or she has Q first which does good damage and disengage, but she now has no way to help with wave management and poke you out. Morgana's E is also on a very long cooldown early, so if Ashe and Leona play it right, they can abuse that cooldown window to all in on the Morgana. Tristana is more difficult since she can just jump away.
@@entropicplays162 which is why i said ashe played it right. The vid said he should've done a,b,c and then you win this match up. But leona never has pressure over morg and trist always beats ashe without a good ult. So i dont know why they said to ever plan to fight during this match up
the song on loop is clean as fuck name?
What kind of adc is jhin? (All in, poke or sustain i mean)
Oh and aphelios too ^^, thnx
But how do I deal with inting mid top and jg?
Go next
What can i buy on a cheat recall?? usually adc would want enough gold then their first back to buy bf, pickaxe, tears,....
cull or doran's blade.
Tear
As a top main I can honestly say that both supports and adcs in low elo are trash and can't manipulate the wave. As I had my fair share of autofill bot as support/adc the most frustrating things are that I can't freeze even if I type it out and ping.
And when I do manage to freeze well my supp dont know what to do which tilts the fuck out of me so I type look for all in or ward etc but that's a 40%chance they will actually listen. Getting autofilled bot is really just a coin flip to me honestly.
What can you buy wen you "cheater recall"?
Depends on how good you are at cs and lane/matchup, but I believe that a dblade is possible. If not I know some tops will take a cloth armor or you could grab like a long sword or even boots if the matchup requires it. I have also seen some adcs back quick for a cull if we know that we’re just gonna be passive after that first push. As support if I can’t really do anything else since wards aren’t up or we’re not getting scuttle I’ll back for boots or a fairy charm (resell value is good even if you’re not an enchanter)
Could an argument be made that Trist can't really help pushing back?
Yo wtf are those runes on silver Ashe and Cait?