Great video! Eight wheel pickup really does make a difference. I love Mehano models because they have a simple and therefore reliable drive mechanism, easy to service. I have some Mehano locomotives that are almost 40 years old and still run like new.
Great video, I just found your channel and subscribed it right away. 7:23 I've also disassembled the Mehano's motor and had difficulty to pulling out the armature from the commutator side, after a while I found that it was easier to pull out it from the other side.
The early Bachmann models after the closure of AHM is basically just old Rivarossi/AHM stock. AHM had stock leftover from the closure, and they had to find a way to empty out the warehouses. AHM in Bachmann boxes is ironically higher quality than the actual Bachmann models of that time.
Boy , I love what you do as I too enjoy seeing the past and seeing them run and saying to my self .. hey .. not bad .. not bad at all.. I got the same one but not in as great shape as yours but yes it runs surprisingly smooth ..Cant wait some day if you do a mantua heavy steam cast loco magnet change and update.
It is, but it’s NEM height and sits too low for even the raised head Kadees. Since it’s not an NEM style pocket though, the Kadee couplers for those types of boxes also don’t fit.
Another awesome video ,,,,i have a question ,,,were did you get that little lathe you used to polish the comutator ,,,.i would love to get one of those ,,,,thanks for sharing,,Ken
I was going to ask you if you had a solution for switching the couplers over to Kadee’s but I’ve just been mind blown by the way you got the horn hooks to work like that. Genius.
Yup, clipping the horn works decently as a quick solution! A Kadee coupler would need a head that’s raised extra high to work with these, unless you remove the truck mounted box and body mount the coupler instead.
@@DarthSantaFe Believe it or not I’ve tried using the offset shank couplers and they still don’t make the height gauge, the closest I and one of my friends have been able to get is gluing couplers on top of the mounts and filing away some of the material of the front and rear openings to allow for clearance. I’m definitely trying this on my IHC Premier C628.
I recently purchased an F9 that has the same truck mounted couplers. Unfortunately the horn hooks broke off in shipping. And these are also unusual horn hooks as they have the centerset Shank. I didn't have any spare horn hooks that would line up with the few cars of mine and still have horn hooks. I have a more recent model power F3 that came with Bachman easy make couplers. That locomotive has very similar truck mounted couplers that are installed in the same way as the old ahm. But something is just different enough for the model power to have its couplers at the correct height.
Some great information on fixing this style of locomotive. I have a Model Power RS2 with the same style chassis, it’s a very smooth runner and have no issues running it. However it can only pull five or six cars max. That’s on a level surface. Any suggestions on making it pull better? Thanks!
I also have that one, and it’s a smooth runner but also doesn’t have much traction! There isn’t much room inside, but you might be able to cut up some sheet lead and carefully glue it into and open areas. The stuff is available for pretty cheap at Amazon, and you can stack/fold and shape it to fit well to wherever you need.
Some detail parts manufacturers offer clear window material that can be easily cut and shaped with scissors, but you can also use the clear plastic bubbles from product packaging as long as it has good clarity.
Nice work! These older locos were very easy to separate the shell from the chassis. Why are today's locos so difficult to separate, especially if you are going to put a decoder inside???
Cool. TIP: Can you show us tests on your locos BEFORE you do work by running it both forward and backwards slow and fast just so you can show us a comparison and difference in noise and electrical draw? That would be awesome. Big fan keep em coming!
Awesome video. The problem that I see is the gears 14:00 being different sizes, would mean the wheels turn at different speeds - 22 gear vs 34 gear, or about 1.5 times faster. Being a small model you wouldn't notice much, but could wear the wheels, slightly due to slippage or dragging.
The wheels themselves have the same size gears though, so you can actually have any size of idler gears between them and the worm gear and it wouldn’t affect the rotation speeds. Nothing to worry about here! :)
Another question... What type of controller are you using?? You often mention the current draw being high or normal. So, your controller must have guages to show electrical draw. Thanks again. It's always a pleasure.
The controller I use on the layout is actually a custom unit with a lot of built in meters and functions. On the workbench, I use an old filtered DC power supply for electronics with adjustable voltage and amperage.
@@DarthSantaFe I haven't actually taken the plunge into the hobby yet. I'm watching a lot of videos, like yours, and I find that I'm more interested in the repairing and restoring of the older engines than I am of actually having a huge layout.
@@steveandulsky566 It was built by a family member who used to work in electronics design. He’s retired at this point though. There are a lot of different ways to enjoy this hobby, and restoration is one of them! Some enjoy other areas such as scenery modeling, replicating an actual route, or even operating to a realistic schedule.
@@DarthSantaFe you've been very kind to answer my questions. If you don't mind, I have one more. A local electronics vendor offers a benchtop adjustable power supply at what I think is a fairly reasonable price. The supply offers: 0-30 VDC, ADJUSTABLE 0-10 DC AMPS, ADJUSTABLE But I don't see any way to switch the polarity of the output in order to change train directions. I suppose it could be done downstream of the supply with a DPDT toggle switch. Is that how yours operates?? MRC offers a controller with builtin guages for ~ $210 -$240 range. But, I think with a little more homework I can beat that price significantly.. Any advice??
I have an engine the same as that in a 4-6-2 mehano, only mine does not work at all well, because when it goes at full speed it makes false contact in the changes of track and from there it does not move, any recommendations?
If it isn't derailing or getting a short circuit, adding additional electrical pickups might help. If any wheels are plastic, they're usually not hard to change to metal on these, and Kadee coupler centering springs work well for making electrical wipers.
@@DarthSantaFe correct my friend, but the problem is not that, if not the motor, since it has easily rusted and I soldered new cables and clean the outlets, so I need to change it for a new one, but I don't know which one is the right motor for a of those locomotives
@@Fxe4014 I see, so if your electrical pickup is all fine but the motor isn’t working, you might be able to remove and tune up the motor like I did for the one in the GP18. If that doesn’t get it working, you may be able to replace it with an identical one from eBay or a good medium size can motor (like an FF-130SH, 12V version).
Interesting, as always. Some quick thoughts: What do you do if brushes are worn???? See last para. That comment re slow speed running is interesting. Real locos weigh 100 tons or more and start accordingly. Way back in 1976 or 7 in 'Model Railroader' Donald Thorn wrote up a transistor controller with an independently accessible pulse controller. I have used it for years; might help here. The purists say pulse is hard on motors, and they would be correct; but this is a pretty rugged motor. You are correct in the general direction of these locos being the basis of a really lucky layout - you just need to know what you are doing and use a bit of sense. The commutator cleaning was interesting - I noticed you did not clean out the slots??? to get rid of dirt and cleaning compound. Might also have been a good idea to support the free end of the commutator in the tail stock, and note the use of safety shield. What ever people do, don't use a drill as a makeshift lathe. The pressure of holding can be a problem, as is stability. You have to be wrong only once. I wonder if removing the armature from the magnets might weaken the magnets and ultimately cause overheating. A plastic compatible cleaner might help clean up the gears, making sure it is dried before relubricating. Work outside for ventilation. As I keep saying, we don't know who is going to have what we fix after we have finished with it, so make sure it is safe in a practical sense, mostly meaning good current draw and no overheating. 'Tuning' means returning to manufacturer's specs. Ah! the joys of treating the whole world like it were a Mecanno set! Peter T
If the brushes are worn down, you might be able to make new ones by sanding down some Athearn spare brushes to the right size and shape. Since the motor was most likely unused when I opened it up, I only did a quick surface buffing to get rid of some oxidation. When the motor is especially dirty, I like to use a sharp knife to clean between the segments. If the motor uses Alnico magnets, removing the armature can weaken it since they're typically charged after assembly. Most of these can motors use ceramic based magnets though, so loss of magnetism isn't anything to worry about. I usually use alcohol and a stiff brush on really dried up grease, and that's been more than enough in most cases. If it's really heavily caked onto plastic, a better cleaner would be a good idea.
Unfortunately the ATSF never had any GP18's and if they did, they would not be painted with the war bonnet passenger scheme, but the blue freight scheme It did have GP20's (essentially a turbocharged GP18) and you can see the paint scheme they would have employed. Second, IF ATSF did have GP18's they almost assuredly would have been low short hood units like the GP20's. Third, this unit is steam generator equipped (you can see the vent and exhaust on the short hood) for dual service and only GTW opted for that option
I've never had any luck with bachman, they put all their efforts into the looks of the train, but never on the motor or the electronics part of it, I had a Hudson it was made by bachmann is gray and yellow that was a biggest piece of crap and I paid $199 for the set!!, It had a pancake motor completely plastic, did actually melted, and use!, No metal can motor!!!, No metal parts whatsoever , a real POS!!, I will never buy another buckman again!!, That's five bachmann sets up but it was junk!!
Bachmann stopped making the pancake motors and plastic frames about 20 years ago. Most of their new stuff is actually very nice quality. I’ve found them to be about as dependable as my Athearns. Comparing modern Bachmann to the old stuff is about like judging Proto 2000 models based on the train set Life-Likes. :)
Im new to model trains and I learned a lot by watching your video. It was the first time I saw somebody dismantling a motor like that. Fascinating.
I repainted mine and got decals for Mid-South Rail! Still runs great! Regular maintenance is all!
Awesome video. The step by step procedure is not only informative, but well done. Kudos to you
Great video! Eight wheel pickup really does make a difference. I love Mehano models because they have a simple and therefore reliable drive mechanism, easy to service. I have some Mehano locomotives that are almost 40 years old and still run like new.
Great video, I just found your channel and subscribed it right away.
7:23 I've also disassembled the Mehano's motor and had difficulty to pulling out the armature from the commutator side, after a while I found that it was easier to pull out it from the other side.
The early Bachmann models after the closure of AHM is basically just old Rivarossi/AHM stock. AHM had stock leftover from the closure, and they had to find a way to empty out the warehouses. AHM in Bachmann boxes is ironically higher quality than the actual Bachmann models of that time.
Thanks! I have Mehano C424 and c628s that are the same mechanism! Great to learn more how they work! Take care!
Very good demonstration on tuning the motor...thanks
Boy , I love what you do as I too enjoy seeing the past and seeing them run and saying to my self .. hey .. not bad .. not bad at all.. I got the same one but not in as great shape as yours but yes it runs surprisingly smooth ..Cant wait some day if you do a mantua heavy steam cast loco magnet change and update.
Nice video. I see you use transmission fluid for your lubrication oil, but what is the white grease??
Thanks! I use white lithium grease for the gears.
the piviot pin on the Gp18's coupler boxes appear to be wide enough for Kadees though
It is, but it’s NEM height and sits too low for even the raised head Kadees. Since it’s not an NEM style pocket though, the Kadee couplers for those types of boxes also don’t fit.
I’ve got this locomotive somewhere in my stash. My parents bought me the train set when I was a kid. Mine is in Union Pacific paint.
Another awesome video ,,,,i have a question ,,,were did you get that little lathe you used to polish the comutator ,,,.i would love to get one of those ,,,,thanks for sharing,,Ken
Thanks! I got it from Amazon for around $30. It’s just a cheap hobby lathe from one of those Chinese sellers with a US warehouse.
I was going to ask you if you had a solution for switching the couplers over to Kadee’s but I’ve just been mind blown by the way you got the horn hooks to work like that. Genius.
Yup, clipping the horn works decently as a quick solution! A Kadee coupler would need a head that’s raised extra high to work with these, unless you remove the truck mounted box and body mount the coupler instead.
@@DarthSantaFe Believe it or not I’ve tried using the offset shank couplers and they still don’t make the height gauge, the closest I and one of my friends have been able to get is gluing couplers on top of the mounts and filing away some of the material of the front and rear openings to allow for clearance. I’m definitely trying this on my IHC Premier C628.
I recently purchased an F9 that has the same truck mounted couplers. Unfortunately the horn hooks broke off in shipping. And these are also unusual horn hooks as they have the centerset Shank. I didn't have any spare horn hooks that would line up with the few cars of mine and still have horn hooks. I have a more recent model power F3 that came with Bachman easy make couplers. That locomotive has very similar truck mounted couplers that are installed in the same way as the old ahm. But something is just different enough for the model power to have its couplers at the correct height.
Some great information on fixing this style of locomotive. I have a Model Power RS2 with the same style chassis, it’s a very smooth runner and have no issues running it. However it can only pull five or six cars max. That’s on a level surface. Any suggestions on making it pull better? Thanks!
I also have that one, and it’s a smooth runner but also doesn’t have much traction! There isn’t much room inside, but you might be able to cut up some sheet lead and carefully glue it into and open areas. The stuff is available for pretty cheap at Amazon, and you can stack/fold and shape it to fit well to wherever you need.
@@davidandrew477 Thanks for the Bullfrog idea! That and a little added weight should help the performance.
@@DarthSantaFe Thanks, I’ll have to give that a shot. 👍
I have this loco except mine is blue and yellow war bonnet. Its a good 30 years or more older but it still runs like a champ.
I paint the interior of the cab flat black so the light only shines through the number boards and headlights.
What did you use as window film? It looks really great
Some detail parts manufacturers offer clear window material that can be easily cut and shaped with scissors, but you can also use the clear plastic bubbles from product packaging as long as it has good clarity.
Nice work! These older locos were very easy to separate the shell from the chassis. Why are today's locos so difficult to separate, especially if you are going to put a decoder inside???
I wish I knew! Seems like it’s mostly just the American models that have that problem too.
I have a UP loco and it's one of the smoothest , most reliable locos I own.
Cool. TIP: Can you show us tests on your locos BEFORE you do work by running it both forward and backwards slow and fast just so you can show us a comparison and difference in noise and electrical draw? That would be awesome. Big fan keep em coming!
I’ll consider it! This one of course didn’t run at all, but I’ll see what I can do for others in the future.
Awesome video. The problem that I see is the gears 14:00 being different sizes, would mean the wheels turn at different speeds - 22 gear vs 34 gear, or about 1.5 times faster. Being a small model you wouldn't notice much, but could wear the wheels, slightly due to slippage or dragging.
The wheels themselves have the same size gears though, so you can actually have any size of idler gears between them and the worm gear and it wouldn’t affect the rotation speeds. Nothing to worry about here! :)
@@DarthSantaFe Oh yeah, just not used to seeing gears used asymmetrically.
I have a mehano gg1 locomotive. It's the single motor version. Would it be the same process
Yes, they’re built mostly the same, so what’s shown here will work for the GG-1.
@@DarthSantaFe thank you
Great Video 👍👍👍
One Tip Try Out Orange cleaner to Clean Out the Gears.
I do it to all of my Locos.
Greetings from Germany!
Sascha
Frateschi Locomotive uses similar drive!
The other reason for the odd gear is that some were offered with a flashing beacon light on the roof.
Another question...
What type of controller are you using?? You often mention the current draw being high or normal. So, your controller must have guages to show electrical draw.
Thanks again. It's always a pleasure.
The controller I use on the layout is actually a custom unit with a lot of built in meters and functions. On the workbench, I use an old filtered DC power supply for electronics with adjustable voltage and amperage.
@@DarthSantaFe did you build the controller yourself??
@@DarthSantaFe I haven't actually taken the plunge into the hobby yet. I'm watching a lot of videos, like yours, and I find that I'm more interested in the repairing and restoring of the older engines than I am of actually having a huge layout.
@@steveandulsky566 It was built by a family member who used to work in electronics design. He’s retired at this point though.
There are a lot of different ways to enjoy this hobby, and restoration is one of them! Some enjoy other areas such as scenery modeling, replicating an actual route, or even operating to a realistic schedule.
@@DarthSantaFe you've been very kind to answer my questions. If you don't mind, I have one more. A local electronics vendor offers a benchtop adjustable power supply at what I think is a fairly reasonable price.
The supply offers:
0-30 VDC, ADJUSTABLE
0-10 DC AMPS, ADJUSTABLE
But I don't see any way to switch the polarity of the output in order to change train directions. I suppose it could be done downstream of the supply with a DPDT toggle switch. Is that how yours operates??
MRC offers a controller with builtin guages for ~ $210 -$240 range. But, I think with a little more homework I can beat that price significantly..
Any advice??
I have an engine the same as that in a 4-6-2 mehano, only mine does not work at all well, because when it goes at full speed it makes false contact in the changes of track and from there it does not move, any recommendations?
If it isn't derailing or getting a short circuit, adding additional electrical pickups might help. If any wheels are plastic, they're usually not hard to change to metal on these, and Kadee coupler centering springs work well for making electrical wipers.
@@DarthSantaFe correct my friend, but the problem is not that, if not the motor, since it has easily rusted and I soldered new cables and clean the outlets, so I need to change it for a new one, but I don't know which one is the right motor for a of those locomotives
@@Fxe4014 I see, so if your electrical pickup is all fine but the motor isn’t working, you might be able to remove and tune up the motor like I did for the one in the GP18. If that doesn’t get it working, you may be able to replace it with an identical one from eBay or a good medium size can motor (like an FF-130SH, 12V version).
Nice Santa fa
Nice!
If you just replace the plastic hand rails and stanchions with Athearn parts I bet that model would look loads better. Great video BTW.
Interesting, as always.
Some quick thoughts:
What do you do if brushes are worn???? See last para.
That comment re slow speed running is interesting. Real locos weigh 100 tons or more and start accordingly. Way back in 1976 or 7 in 'Model Railroader' Donald Thorn wrote up a transistor controller with an independently accessible pulse controller. I have used it for years; might help here. The purists say pulse is hard on motors, and they would be correct; but this is a pretty rugged motor. You are correct in the general direction of these locos being the basis of a really lucky layout - you just need to know what you are doing and use a bit of sense.
The commutator cleaning was interesting - I noticed you did not clean out the slots??? to get rid of dirt and cleaning compound. Might also have been a good idea to support the free end of the commutator in the tail stock, and note the use of safety shield. What ever people do, don't use a drill as a makeshift lathe. The pressure of holding can be a problem, as is stability. You have to be wrong only once.
I wonder if removing the armature from the magnets might weaken the magnets and ultimately cause overheating.
A plastic compatible cleaner might help clean up the gears, making sure it is dried before relubricating. Work outside for ventilation.
As I keep saying, we don't know who is going to have what we fix after we have finished with it, so make sure it is safe in a practical sense, mostly meaning good current draw and no overheating. 'Tuning' means returning to manufacturer's specs.
Ah! the joys of treating the whole world like it were a Mecanno set!
Peter T
If the brushes are worn down, you might be able to make new ones by sanding down some Athearn spare brushes to the right size and shape.
Since the motor was most likely unused when I opened it up, I only did a quick surface buffing to get rid of some oxidation. When the motor is especially dirty, I like to use a sharp knife to clean between the segments.
If the motor uses Alnico magnets, removing the armature can weaken it since they're typically charged after assembly. Most of these can motors use ceramic based magnets though, so loss of magnetism isn't anything to worry about.
I usually use alcohol and a stiff brush on really dried up grease, and that's been more than enough in most cases. If it's really heavily caked onto plastic, a better cleaner would be a good idea.
@@DarthSantaFe If it is really dirty I've had luck using mineral spirits.
I find the best thing to do with those 3 pole motors is replace them with an Ebay 5 pole for 3 bucks
I don't care , thats a great looking and great running engine ...smooth too
Hello I have the same kind of engine but a different color it's blue and yellow Santa Fe it's ahm that's the one I have
That loco looks like it was barely used ...handrails and all
The wheels were completely clean out of the box, so I think it was actually brand new and unused!
Unfortunately the ATSF never had any GP18's and if they did, they would not be painted with the war bonnet passenger scheme, but the blue freight scheme It did have GP20's (essentially a turbocharged GP18) and you can see the paint scheme they would have employed. Second, IF ATSF did have GP18's they almost assuredly would have been low short hood units like the GP20's. Third, this unit is steam generator equipped (you can see the vent and exhaust on the short hood) for dual service and only GTW opted for that option
These cheaper models did get a lot of fantasy paint schemes over the years.
Some of us dont care about counting rivets, we just enjoy the hobby as it is.
@@ericzerkle5214 The information is provided free of charge to those who may be interested. Live with it
@@colbeausabre8842 Triggered
@@DarthSantaFe mine is I chessie paint scheme
I've never had any luck with bachman, they put all their efforts into the looks of the train, but never on the motor or the electronics part of it, I had a Hudson it was made by bachmann is gray and yellow that was a biggest piece of crap and I paid $199 for the set!!, It had a pancake motor completely plastic, did actually melted, and use!, No metal can motor!!!, No metal parts whatsoever , a real POS!!, I will never buy another buckman again!!, That's five bachmann sets up but it was junk!!
Bachmann stopped making the pancake motors and plastic frames about 20 years ago. Most of their new stuff is actually very nice quality. I’ve found them to be about as dependable as my Athearns. Comparing modern Bachmann to the old stuff is about like judging Proto 2000 models based on the train set Life-Likes. :)