ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2020
- I rank FE7 characters according to how much I'd recommend people new to HHM use them.
A while back I made a video about why tier lists factor in availability, and I talked a lot about the difference between a tier list and a character guide. So I decided to make an actual character guide, both to help people new to the game and to further illustrate why tier lists don't work as character guides.
That old video can be found here: • Why Availability Matte...
BGM is from Golden Sun/The Lost Age: • Golden Sun + The Lost ...
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Imagine being a fe player who was in a coma from 2004 and when he wakes up he finds Lyn and Eliwood not considered op anymore
I know Lyn had major waifu factor, but did people really used to think Eliwood was good? I remember him colloquially referred to as "Eliwuss"
@@thomaswood8405 yeah Eliwood I don't think he was seen as good back then. If anything he's better rated now because people realized more "holy shit horses are good", and while Eliwood goes like 20 chapters without one, eventually he does get one that makes him a lot more useful, on top of giving him Javelins for the sweet sweet 1-2 range. Those are major advantages that in the days of yore were ignored because "yeah but his combat sucks" while Lyn dodged and critted everything… once, in player phase, then proceed to stand and do nothing in enemy phase because 1 OR 2 range.
@@thomaswood8405 Eliwood was considered a bit less good than the other lords only because people were totally crazy for Hector and Lyn. Still he was considered among the best units
@S20☆ Urza youre talking about diogo arent you?
But her Sol Katti crit animation tho
Thank you for using Golden Sun music, it's so nostalgic
Best game
@@Traudekirn L
And so good. It's amazing that soundtrack was made for the GBA. Motoi Sakuraba did an amazing job with that.
Last time I was this early, growths mattered more than bases
Saying there's no wrong way to play Fire Emblem is a bold statement from a man who played through an entire campaign of sacred stones and leveled Forde
An early promoted Oswin is probably the most brain-dead unit in the game other than Marcus, and even becomes more brain dead than Marcus as his HP and defense pool passes Marcus. Playing HHM while less than sober has taught me that Oswin is incredibly silly.
One thing I’d definitely add is that, much like making better use of dancing, fully utilizing staves makes the game easier. Physics, barrier, and restore are staves I remember never paying much attention to the first times I played the games (let alone warp, hammerne, and rescue), but can make really nasty chapters like genesis much easier. Pretty dedicated staff users like Serra and Priscilla are really good in that they can effectively neutralize nasty issues like status staves, siege tomes, and promoted sages, valkyries by being able to throw restores and barriers around without the player having to lose Pent’s OP combat in the late game for a player phase.
Even staves like warp which are generally associated with LTCs provide great opportunities for players to save themselves and turn the tide of a bad situation. Having multiple A staff users just expands the options a player has to deal with/escape from bad situations, and learning to effectively identify those situations and opening yourself up to using the big pool of staves greatly helps at making the game easier
I have had the pleasure of using an early promoted Oswin in my first hard mode playthrough and he was absolutely phenomenal. His damage with Iron weapons was just enough to gurantee a kill for almost anyone. As you said his defensive stats were amazing, his Res and speed make him easy to double but honestly his high health make it so that he can survive at least 1 round of combat with magic users.
Been watching your drunk fe7 playthrough and yea Oswin's a beast. Yeah he's slow but those animations though???
Now if only Oswin had more than 5 movement upon promotion
Oswin may as well be drunk himself for how easy he has it lmao forget what Mekkah says, give him boots and watch him lazily stumble and fall over enemies in accident before the game is over in minutes
@@heartnet40 There are a few enemies that Oswin can't handle in Hector Hard mode, but he is very useful otherwise. I'd prefer to give the boots to either Heath, Florina, or Hector for his essentially solo Gaiden chapter. A 10 move unit that can pick up a promoted Hector > a seven move Hector > a seven move Oswin IMO. Of course, play the game how you want to.
Man, even in a begginers guide DonDon tell Mekkah that he's wrong, it looks like a tradition at this point.
I'm going through my DMs with Mekkah and even though I did provide feedback for this list, I don't think I suggested dropping Louise... What I actually said was, "I think Wallace is no worse than Louise truthfully" which can be interpreted as dropping Louise, but I think I meant raising Wallace lol
I'd really like to see this type of video for FE6 Hard as well.
Definitely gonna happen at some point.
Lance is the best unit in the game
@@rita1525 killer lance*
Ah, yes, if you want to get into Shadow Dragon on its highest difficulties, knowing how to use a dancer is really nice... haha
Something that is very helpful in casual playthroughs for Eliwood is his fast support with Hector. It's a great casual support because it gives full defense and avoid, which makes Eliwood much easier to use. They will achieve C support pretty much by accident, and at a slower casual pace, I think they can have B support for most of the game. They reach B faster than most other support pairs reach C, and they share almost every chapter. Eliwood and Hector have the same mov for the most part, and by the time Eliwood outpaces Hector, he'll be good enough to not need the support. This in conjunction with his free earlygame deployment can justify him as being easier to use than a "high effort" character. Though it's splitting hairs anyway, Eliwood sucks. But I do think he's way easier to use than Lyn, Rebecca, or Wil.
I still can't believe you beat shadow dragon h5 0%. That shit is impossible.
@@truthdsw4895 You could get your ass handed to you by SD H5
or you could use the warp staff!
@treeghettox For Chapter 3, just throw Ogma at the guy every other turn until you get a lucky crit or something. Ogma can tank one hit, and will dodge most, so he's pretty safe if you spend the off turns healing him up. Don't attack on player phase though, just put him in melee range so that you don't have to take two combats in a row. Chapter 4 boss shouldn't be a big deal if you can can to him, spam range attacks, especially Merric, cause he only has the Ridersbane.
@treeghettox Ooof, that's a big oof my friend. Well, I believe there's a Save Circle right before the boss, so give Ogma the Killing Edge and pray to the RNG gods. Depending how the numbers work out, keep Merric handy to blast him with Excalibur. Mage boy gets 1-shot I believe, but wind spells is stronk. Actually, if you really wanna save scum Excalibur can one-shot the boss off a crit.
But MEKKAH I have to use EVERY class and there’s no ARCHERS in NO BRAINER tier, which is why REBECCA should be moved up to NO BRAINER tier.
3 Paladins in the same tier? Pffffft only choose the best one!
@@Chadius So Lowen?
@@epicgamer6678 Sain is better with Lyn Hard mode. Otherwise, yeah. Broomhead is good.
@@AriaFromMahabre Honestly I don't want to go through boring ass LM ever again. Even on Hard it's just so slow.
(You're right, though. LM also makes Florina better, but still doesn't put anyone over Marcus)
Never clicked so fast. I've thought these kinds of use/don't lists have been long absent from the community! Excited to argue about this stuff :P just kidding, but I think these could be way more helpful for newer players to each game
Yay! Golden Sun background music
Was about to comment about that as well, good catch.
The sun will rise again my brother.
Made my heart happy to hear it
(Shot in the dark, but...) Shout outs to the old Golden Sun Realm forum, thanks for having that playground up in the early 2000s Cinder.
Games from that era!
I like this type of video. I wouldn't mind seeing for for other games, like Radiant Dawn. (Especially to see where the members of the Dawn Brigade show up.)
Down below all the way further down than the boiling room
Except Nolan he’s pretty decent and Sothe gets insulted for being part of this group
Finally my boy Oswin seen as the HHM savour that he is. Drops off end game but man is he great for early game carry plays, especially if you’re doing an Ironman.
I think this kind of guide is much more useful for new players than the typical tier lists. Good idea! I hope you do this for other games too!
Thank you for this! Gonna start HHM soon and this will really help! Would love to see this for other games too :)
Hey Mekkah, thanks for following up on this topic. I have to admit that this ranking video is the kind I like to see. In essence, it's a tier-list for beating the game at a specific difficulty and gives a good general idea of the effort vs. rewards in using given characters. So I think it's very useful in planning runs or more or less cruising through a blind playthrough (as much as that difficulty allows, anyway).
That being said, your usual tier lists also have an implicit context for ranking. I may not find it very useful myself, but it does reflect how much you appreciate the character throughout the game (hence the considerations for availability). It is not necessarily a bad metric, but it doesn't always transpose well for others (because we all have different preferences).
Thank you soooo much Mekkah! I literally started bingeing your videos two days ago and just today decided to start a hector hard mode run. I dont think ive ever had a coincidence this hard. Dankje Mekkah, zeer geapprecieerd! Blazing Sword was de eerste Fire Emblem die ik gespeeld heb, en nu fijn om het echt goed te doen!
Yesss, we bullied him into not call characters bad!
Guys it’s official!!! Rebecca is not actually bad, she’s high effort!!!
@@RealJB003 Same with Nino and Lyn!
Amelia: * cries in joy
Tbh, fire emblem average enemy quality is so low that i am hard pressed to call most characters outside of bullshit difficulties "bad" as in "trying to use them makes the game significantly harder".
I think this is a really smart distinction. The point of tier lists ultimately seems to be to measure contribution throughout a playthrough and might give someone who is unfamiliar with the game the impression that someone like Harken isn't really worth a deployment slot. This format says, "when you have this unit, you can't go wrong with deploying them"
I could listen to Mekkah talk about FE7 characters forever
Was planning on starting my first HHM run sometime soon, so great timing for me. Not too worried about the difficulty because I’ve got some pretty tough things like FE6 hard (Sacae route even) & F12 H2 under my belt already.
What I’m most concerned about is the reduced deployment slots because I already found the deployment limit very annoying in regular FE7. Doesn’t help that this is one FE game where I like pretty much every character enough to be somewhat compelled to use them. Never used Oswin or Canas before so I’m excited to try ‘em out.
Lovely background music
Thanks for this format, it's much more useful for a regular playthrough than a tier list. If you do the same for other games I will watch it. Maybe you can put hard-to-recruit/weird availability units like Geitz in their own category ? They would require an explanation anyway so you might as well group them together :)
Vaida saved my first run when I was a kid. I couldn't figure out how to beat the final chapter without taking a round of damage from Uhai. Vaida was my only unit who was not one-rounded by Uhai.
Would love to see more of these types of vids!
Interesting concept. I remember struggling with HHM when I first tried it haha
You could do this type of video for every FE game and I would watch it multiple times over (I've already watched this one 3 times that's how good it is)
Your use of Golden Sun music... So nostalgic I cry
Perfect timing. Just started a hhm iron man a day ago. Thanks mekkah.
Nice this will be useful for me when I'll tackle hard mode soon.
Thanks for this, might put fe6 hard on hold just to play fe7 HHM
Mekkah with the Golden Sun Music!
I need more lists like this!
This isn't an unreasonable list, but i think the value of a lot of characters changes immensely based on whether you played or skipped Lyn’s Story, almost to the point where an entirely separate list is needed.
For this kind of list it really doesn't change anything. At best maybe Lyn could slide into okay but but she still has fairly big issues.
@@BassForever Florina becomes significantly better than Fiora, dorcas than Bartre, Kent and Sain than Lowen, Wil than Rebecca etc. Plus Rath joins at a more respectable level that way and Serra, being the only healer you had access to throughout all of Lyn mode, probably comes out leveled high enough to promote fairly early, and Lucius comes in at a pretty low level if you don't play Lyn mode with him first.
It's mainly not HUGE shifts, but it's pretty much every character in Lyn mode and it's enough to be noticable for all of them
@@kylestillwell7031 But Florina is already in good, and it's not bumping her up into no brainer, same with Kent/Sain. This isn't a tier list, if it was then I'd agree with you on all your points.
@@BassForever I disagree, I think Lyn would definitely be okay and Sain and Kent could be justified as no-brainer, since trianing at least one of them happens basically automatically in Lyn mode.
The list is for "Hector hard mode," which means no Lyn story
1.26 Can't believe you're giving the YT comment section this much credit. You're a good man, Mekkah. Naive, but good.
Fe7 is one of those games that you came back to play no matter what other says, but yes hector mode is different yet if you have played enough time you can do it.
I like this approach of utility and easy to use instead of is a bad unit.
Also this video is like in the right timing, so I feel like most people not know about this mode.
Good,just what i need to play HHM for the first time.
Hey Mekkah, you should try beating HMM with only the high effort characters. There’s a fun challenge run.
Great video, Mekkah! The one additional thing I would've mentioned would be ballista utility for the archers. Even without really using or investing in either of them, deploying one of them on a chapter with a ballista can be very useful, since it's basically long range chip or possibly kills, if the enemy is a flier or something. I had a playthrough where I did this with Wil, and by the final chapter he was a 20/5 sniper, almost entirely from balista chip and kills. He still wasn't very good, though, mostly because using ballistas didn't really help his bow rank (he had B Bows at then end), but I thought it was pretty good utility and exp gain for almost no effort.
Which Bllista chapters are you talking about?
I don´t rember any after Lyn Mode.
@@Camo869 It's been a while since I last played FE7, but I quickly looked it up and, in Hector's Mode, there are ballistas in chapters 16, 19x part 2 (19xx), 21, 22, both versions of 24, 25, 29, and 32. Sure, it's not a ton, but it's more or less free utility without investment.
I think that's really really situational, and the way most people play their first run I'd expect them to run out of ammo. But I will say there was a semi recent FE7 0% growths run (not dondon's) that used ballistician Wil in a bonus video - the FFO Geitz map.
@@Mekkkah Yeah, I figured it was pretty situational. I just though it was worth a mention, since it's mostly free utility, especially on earlier maps that have ballistas, when you don't have a lot of better options for deployment. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comment!
Very good video, even though I disagree with a few places. I think it would be a fine guide for new players.
Petition to put Seth in his own "one brain cell" tier above other no brainer units when the FE8 guide comes out :D
I managed to beat FE8 with just Seth when I was a dumb kid and got literally everyone bar like Saleh killed, Seth is easy mode
That one brain cell is dedicated entirely to maneuvering him around the Halberd enemy in chapter 6.
You should make a series where you can only use the people in the high effort tier. Literally the only playthough youd be really happy to see nino in, lol!
I really need this video, thanks xDDD
Instant like for using golden sun menu music!
The music on this video.. I love Golden Sun so much.
I can't disagree with this one, it's pretty accurate.
Can I suggest you to play the three golden sun games, on a stream or some filler lp? I like the music and game play, decent story. It's like a good mix between pokemon final fantasy and fire emblem.
Two important factors to consider for casual modes and easier runs is picking up units which don't' require much investment or realizing that trying to take a unit that might need some investment compared to another you already have that is already snowballing.
Florina > Fiora/Farina since both of them you have to train. Florina gets potential access to +2 str and +7 hp that Fiora struggles to reliably keep high str due to no +2 str access and 35% str growth. Its very easy to get str screwed. Florina solves def/res by primarily focusing on dodge tanking with her high spd/lck growths. Honestly, all three are great because their supports make them tankier and doing more dmg which lets them get around their lower 23 dmg cap or helping to shore up tougher enemies like Wyverns. Without lyn mod Florina falls off a bit as she can't keep snowballing and letting herself stay combat efficient. Which is where Farina comes in with the least amount of effort to train. Javelin + Pure Water. Goodbye monk castle. Is honestly one of the better units to get over there and take on the monks in the first place.
Raven is really nice purely because its almost impossible to get RNG screwed on this unit. His str is 55% with a good enough base and lv5. His base spd is huge and reliable to get near spd cap by lv15. Con is good and hero promotion gives him axe + handaxe usage for additional evasion options to keep doubling enemies to ensure they stay dead without needing special use weapons. Though with swords and axe he can use the nice sword properties. Raven makes the mid-early to mid-late game more consistent by having 1 of only a few units that feels like they can consistently 1round enemies. If he does end up bad you can always immediately upgrade him with Harken. Same unit utility, but a directly upgrade no strings attached.
Sain I feel edges out on the horse trio. Lyn mode bonus. Very early requirement. Str is 60% and good spd. With supports + all three weapons in paladins he can keep his accuracy high using the right weapon while having the str/spd to 1round enemies which is very important. Lowen/Kent can both either get speed or str screwed. Sain at least keeps it to only getting screwed in speed potentially mitigating effort put into a unit.
Between Lucius, Erk, and Canas, Erk isn't needed as much. Given you'll be using either Serra or Prissy 1 guiding ring early is pretty much used. Erk can be outclassed entirely by base level Pent. Erk/Lucius/Canas are good enough that train Lucius or Canas for their unique utility that Pent just does everything Erk could have done, but better. Even if you train Erk to get to lv 20/6 he still is worse than Pent in a great many areas. Its a little more value to put into Canas or Lucius. Canas is more well-rounded and his biggest trait is honestly just being a tanky mage. Dark tomes are not really valuable except for situational luna usage. His str is still not high enough to even 1round things where Luna is useful without a crit. Lucius is handy because he can get Lyn mode training for +2 str or +7 hp possibly. Immediate access to C rank staves. Can more easily get to B or A rank staff to make better use of his high magic for physic or warp (though honestly Pent comes for free for warp usage and no staff investment at all. He can't get screwed in strength or speed as easily which are very important stats.
Heath is a great unit, but feels very difficult to train because he is severely underleveled from where Fiora or Florina can be by this time. His join chapter and the following couple of chapters are difficult to train him due to desert is great, but his stats are awful to 1round enemies without someone else setting up kills for him. If you are using Fiora or Florina early on they might already somewhat surpass him and Farina is coming up not too far in the future who makes a very good user and extremely easy to train on her join chapter.
Rath is very hard to make useful because even with lyn mode he comes sub lv10 most likely and all the other Lyn units came as early as chapter 16 and he's like 8-9 chapters behind. HHM is hard, so trying to make use of Rath is just making it more difficult on yourself.
I'd put Vaida in okay. She comes midway through the chapter full of magic units. Her con is awful (as in rescued potential for a flying unit). Her speed is awful. She's only useful if you didn't bother trying to train some other flight character which is kind of hard to do. Farina comes with amazing bases and a super easy strategy to train her. Pure water, a couple of javelins, and off to solo the monk castle. Fiora takes effort for being underleveled. Florina is only difficult to train if she gets str screwed or you failed to use her in lyn mode. Its really hard to make use of Vaida from a casual perspective. Her support tree is sort of awful.
This feels like a really great list other than say I'd put Heath/Rath into a lower tier simply because of how hard they feel to train from a more casual player. Vaida out of no brainer.
This is a good tier list
I am so glad that he made this. I have been trying to do hhm for so long now. I just kept convincing myself to do some easy and lame challenge run after I failed my hhm run going up to like chapter 29. The only thing I don't agree with here is that Guy has been very very useful for me in my current hhm run. He feels like a much better unit when I'm trying to not use him though. Like I used to think swordmasters were op and would use guy so much but he was crap. Now when I don't want to use him, he just destroys everything. It's weird.
If your Guy gets strength blessed he's prolly a wrecking ball. Generally Guy's problem isn't really his stats or ability to ORKO but the lack of range. Also he counts towards Jerme's version of PFoD but I didn't factor that in for any character.
I like this idea a lot! Personally I feel like you could switch Priscilla and the Ninnian / Nils. A first time player most likely isn’t going to get the best possible value out of them. But compared to Sara in the early game Priscilla makes the game considerably easier. She can move after healing, and even rescue units in a pinch.
I think it's ok to place the list like this because it communicates to new players that "hey dancers are amazing and you should figure out how to use them," but he still verbally mentioned it's fine if you just wanna replace a dancer with another unit.
Priscilla cant move after healing
Came for Fire Emblem
Stayed for Golden Sun
Loved the video
oooo this is cool. If I were to argue about placement in investment it would probably be Eliwood in okay since he's honestly as easy to train as Bartre with his Rapier and his join time also makes him easy as well. Oh yeah, something I find hilarious in Eliwood Hard (or normal) is if I remember correctly Erik has a silver Lance and he's able to double Bartre with it. He's able to one round him with it. Just shows how he is one of the contenders for worst character in the game.
idk Eliwood's Rapier isn't all that good, it only has 2 mt over an Iron Sword and between WTD and 2x effectiveness it's not even close to as strong as the Wolf Beil. but he's definitely trainable, and the payoff is actually there...but only from Ch26 onwards. definitely a step above the others in High Effort though
@@Mekkkah yh, Rapier is definitely the worst it has ever been but I really value weapons with effectiveness against cavaliers and nomads since those are the most abundant enemies and can cause a threat to units with low defense/speed which is why I think Eliwood is underrated, although at first his durability at first is bad but with the Hector support and a good defense growth of 30% he'll at least have 8-9 defense or more. His speed base is very nice as well, he doubles the lowest speed Pegasus knights at base which units like Hector and Dorcas fail to without getting lucky on their speed growth, which is very unlikely for Dorcas in particular. With another point he doubles some archers, and if you were lucky enough to get another he can then start to double some cavaliers and brigands very useful early game to mid game where those enemies are common. He stops being to useful around Chapter 21 where cavaliers aren't as common and are replaced with fliers, although with a wyrmslayer he does moderately well against them particularly in Chapter 22 when they all have Axe Reaver's so that's a good chapter to try and get him up to promotion. When he does get his mount that's when Eliwood starts looking on par with units like Lowen and Kent which is more then enough in fe7, as you know he gets a power boost In Lance's which really helps him start one rounding with his decent strength and javelin allow him to finally enemy phase archers and mages, which he also doubles and one rounds reliably.(also has about 10-11 resistance so he takes mages better then most.) This is where Eliwood starts to take off, he no longer relies on his Rapier to finish off units and can help in rescue chains. Canto is busted of course so getting that also helps him greatly and that Hector support should be at A now which boosts his durability to one of the best in your army. If I had to rate him, I'd say probably just over Dart in a tier list but that's just my little hot take. Sorry if I went on I get passionate about Eliwood :)
Do a S Rank Run tier list. I imagine Matthew's value goes way up when you consider his impact on the Funds ranking, for example, and stuff like Raven getting exp bonuses at base/prepromotes fucking your experience rank probably shakes things up as well. Plus you can rename shit tier to "exp welfare" tier.
With all the Golden Sun music in your vids, are we ever gonna get a let's play of it?
I've seen the list but haven't watched the video to the end yet, but I'm surprised Geitz is so low if you're not taking into account availability; he's like Hawkeye who trades crit chance for outspeeding many more enemies (and bows I guess... although being able to use Brave Bow at base is quite nice). To me he definitely fits the "no brainer" moniker.
HHM was pretty fun then i hit cog of destiny and it stopped being fun :(
That map is straight up hell. I hate it
@@rocroif3324 who in Inteleon Simpsons thought that replacing the fun spawning Generals and Paladins with Magic units that has berserk 24/7 was ok?
I find this way of organizing units more interesting than tier lists.
I am brand new to the game and going in with Lyn mode then Eliwood. Anyone I should particularly use there? I want to always use lords.
In my latest FE7 run, I have a blessed Eliwood and a cursed Hector. My Eliwood simply has better stats than Hector amd got many "every stat got +1 level ups" while my Hector has been RNG screwed and really struggles. Hector technically has better defense, but with support, Eliwood has more
At least he's a good support for my Eligood
Idk about Raven not being in no-brainer. He can basically one-round every enemy that he sees for like 5 chapters after he joins you and he might need a promotion item but there's basically no other units that are good that want a hero crest. There's no Deke/Wade/Rutger/Fir situation in fe7, most of the hero crest units in this game are pretty bad
Same with Geitz, especially in HHM? He can use almost any bow and axe in the game at base level and if this is HHM, he also gets mad bonuses.
yea I feel like people allways underrate raven. He definitley benefits from the fact that hand axes only require e rank in axes to use
@@lagspike7763Geitz is there because of having to train Lyn and Eliwood (as well as Hector, but he's probably capping his level anyways)
Raven can be slightly fragile, especially against mages, and he doesn't have 1-2 range. With his base level of 5, it will take a while until he gets hand axes, and those are unreliable with WTD. So you need to think a bit more about how to use him than Oswin or Pent or something.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 That is true but for a new player, not telling them how much of an offensive godsend raven is probably is a bad idea
As a guy that still needs to finish Eliwood Medium, i think i can still get nice insight from this vid.
Hoping im not digressing too much, i get confised about Promotions.
Should i promote ASAP? Should i promote at level 20? Should i mix and match, and if yes how do i tell when promoting is good?
Mix and match but lean torwards early. Promoting every at 10 isn't a horrible idea but it also isn't perfect. If a unit is doing their job perfectly fine there's no harm in giving them a few more levels first. If a chapter would be faster/easier with a promoted unit, promote them. If they hit a good benchmark or gain an important bonus on promo, go for early. Extra weapon types (especially when it's a swordlocked unit getting a 1-2 range option) are a good reason to promote early. Any unit that gets a mount is a good reason to promote them early. A unit who needs a bit more speed to double and gets it from promo is good for early. That kind of thing. Even some small things like promoting characters to get to A staves can be worth sometimes. Otherwise if you want to make the later game easier and don't lose anything big in the moment, you might as well get a few more levels.
Rliwood normal is honestly so easy that it doesn't matter at all. Just do what you want.
@@kentknightofcaelin4537 Yeah. Also, sorry to say you got Growth Screwed in my playthrough 😅
Golden Sun background music? Really miss that game series...
I remember one time just trying to blaze through Eliwood mode to unlock Hector Mode and I accidentally fielded my untrained Rebecca on the Super Spear Vaida map. I didn't bother trying to protect her so I just let the Wyvern squad surround her. She didn't die :)
yo is that music from Golden Sun??
Hype music!
got me hella nostalgic for TLA
i prefer this kind of list.
I'm just here for my regular dose of Golden Sun's glorious OST
I haven't watched very far yet, but Geitz seems low (though I don't entirely recall his bases since I don't go to his chapter).
Edit: having gotten to the explanation and seeing it's purely based on having to get to his chapter it's entirely fair. I was assuming recruitment wasn't held against him.
I think availability is an important and underrated aspect of unit ratings. A unit could join with 10 movement, flight and capped stats and still be crap if you can only unlock them by fulfilling extremely specific criteria; 50 levels on your lords translates to a capped Hector and Level 15 Lyn/Eliwood, which is highly impractical.
I think that's one of the reasons this is specifically clarified as NOT a tier list.
Meka!
Damn this is a really cool idea on a video. I’ve thought of how a character like Athos gets totally shafted in tier lists because when you do have him he’s as you said, a no brainer.
Mekkah in what world does Renault have the same magic as a 20/20 Serra? Like she has the same magic as Renault at level 20/1.
What's the verdict on promoting Oswin and keeping him around into the late game? I know knights crests are tight, but I also notice this isn't a list considering ranked play or "efficient" play. Because I've always felt Oswin can be a great pick if you're just trying to beat the game on hard mode.
Nothing wrong with that. I do find that even promoted, Oswin doesn't help as much in some of the harder mid/lategame maps compared to a promoted Paladin, for example the maps with a lot of magic (Genesis, Cog of Destiny) or a lot of movement (Battle Before Dawn), but he still tanks physical enemies easily.
Isadora is underrated
Isadora is slightly underrated.
Isadora is developing Echidna syndrome, where the idea that she is underrated spreads so much that people start overrating her.
I wouldn't say she's underatted. she is a good filler unit and thats that, and is part of the best class. giving her even more credit would mean putting her in the same tier as characters like sain, kent, lowen, marcus, florina which would be a bad comparrison
bad con
26:37 Objection! 20/20 Serra has 22 magic. Point stands though.
Aside, Serra is definitely one of my WAIFUs. Secret shop in the dragon's gate means she can physic/barrier every single turn for good non-combat exp. In ranked runs she's a god send, promoting in Unfulfilled Heart to become an inferior Pent.
The Ocean Seal isn't really that hard to get, you can get one for sure by having a thief standing towards the lower right corner on the Desert map
The issue with the Ocean Seal is not that it's hard to get. It's that it comes later than most promotion items, and sells for more than other promo items, so there's more of a cost to using it. Dart would've preferred a promotion item that comes earlier.
I'll have you know I've bleaten FE7 twice
and?
This is what I've been wanting from tierlists for ages
An at a glance look at if a character is worth/hard to train
How is Harken better than Raven in the Hector mode? I really need explanation about it
I need this for Three Houses Maddening lol, getting my butt kicked so far
fe3h.com/meta/2020/07/23/early_game_skill_rank_investment_guide
This might be helpful.
No brainer tier: Byleth and the lords, Lysithea, Ignatz(mainly for early chapters), Felix, Silvain, Bernadetta, maybe Petra, Balthus, Catherine, Shamir, Jeritza, Seteth.
Great: Lindhart, Annette, Hilda, Ferdinand Von Aegir, Leonie, Marianne.
Cyril has crappy stats but great skills so I put him in between.
Everyone else is good.
Meh: Raphael (has rally str but somewhat underwhelming performance, debatable placement), Caspar, Ashe. They are still decent imo.
No: Anna.
@@enjoylorn7548 I would put Alois and Gilbert over Raphael at least. Raphael is only good as a Guard Adjutant for most of the game and even as a Grappler his combat is carried hard by Fierce Iron Fist. Gilbert at least can be easily reclassed to Paladin or Wyvern Rider and both his combat and his utility will immensely improve. The same applies to Alois, though he also has a similar niche to Jeritza in that he gets Battaltion Wrath (or even regular Wrath in Warrior) almost out of the gate and can reclass to Hero for some funny Vantage/Wrath + Retribution strategies.
Whether or not you think that's enough to push Alois or Gilbert into Good or drag Raphael into Meh is up to you, but I do think you're selling those two short. Also, Seteth belongs in No Brainer.
@@enjoylorn7548 I don't think Ignatz belongs in 'No-brainer' tier, his personal is good for reliability reasons but I've repeatedly had him strength screwed and lose all usefulness past the first few chapters. The first few chapters are the hardest to be fair, but still.
I also don't think Manuela belongs in 'Meh' tier when she has warp utility, albeit worse than Lindhart's and Lysithea's; she has a lot more to contribute than the Raphael's of the world, even if she's not flat out fantastic. May also bump up Gilbert because he only really needs a reclass and a brave weapon to be an effective unit.
@@cartooncritic7045 It took me a while to finish a list I was satisfied with and still forgot about Seteth while moving names around.
I do think Alois and Gilbert are better than Caspar. I think I'll just remove them from meh.
Raphael has rally str at least hmm...
On the subject of gold: It seems most people think gold is plentiful in this game to the point where promoting Dart and recruiting Farina is trivial. I'd agree for well-planned playthroughs, but for casual playthroughs of HHM, the game encourages buying more than less. There is no battle prep shop, so it's better to buy more now than run the risk of running out later. This is especially harsh on physics and barriers, which are available in ch22H, and then a massive drought until ch32H (Pent joins with Physic in ch26H). Reaver weapons are available in ch24H, and then ch31XH. Because of this "stocking up" mentality, gold is much tighter for players who don't really want to plan out weapon uses for every chapter.
YOU CAN'T JUST OPEN UP WITH GOLDEN SUN MUSIC LIKE THAT AND NOT HAVE ME COMMENT ON IT.
Interested now, though - did you play the games recently, or just look up the soundtrack after it popped up in Sun God's Wrath?
I used it before in tier list vids! I have a folder with ~hour long music mixes/playlists that I know doesn't get copyright striked that I use for these kinds of vids.
tbh honest, Renault is really underappreciated. sure he's got 12 mag, but usually, when I play HHM, I have Renault equip staves that don't scale off magic such as barrier, restore, hammerne, and even recover allows him to recover up to 42 hp no questions asked. All of that can be used base level Renault which should automatically at least make him 'good'. His supports are okay, because how often do you use Bartre or Wallace? His offense is trash, but light magic isn't very good anyway, and there's tons of high res enemies in the last chapters and even a magic seal. Last but not least, he's got pretty good def and res, making him probably the tankiest castor in the game, bar Athos, his spd and skl are good too and being magic, even if he's not gonna be one rounding like someone like hector or harken, he will always be able to get a chip in, and being at base A rank, he can use any light tome, minus aureola, or Luce, but those are better off given to athos anyway
After all these years I still have yet to beat HHM
I like your pro argument for using a dancer vs not using a dancer but one thing you didn't mention, is that if you have 10 deployment slots and you have 9 filled and you're choosing between a dancer and a non dancer for your 10th slot, your dancer let's your Best combat unit attack twice, or you can use your 10th Best combat unit instead of using your best unit twice.
"everyone on this list can be used to beat FE7"
Time for my merlinus solo run I guess!
Can I use this if I have never played FE7?
I don't see why not, yeah. I think he only said for people who've beaten the game once, because you have to beat the game to unlock hector mode
That's the point of this guide. If a character is a good suggestion for Hector Hard Mode, the hardest mode in the game, logically they'll be even better* in the lower difficulties.
Of course, if the guide is intended for HHM, that implies you've beaten Eliwood Normal and Hector Normal already, so that's two playthroughs under your belt, but I think the guide also holds up well for those game modes too.
* not really what happens. What actually happens is that the difference between a good character and a worse character is smaller; more and more characters are able to ORKO an enemy because the benchmark they need to pass is lower. The end result between barely killing an enemy and absolutely nuking them from existence is the same, the enemy dies.
This is also why Mekkah makes all his tier lists for Hector Hard Mode, because the differences between characters become more apparent, whereas lower difficulties is not really super needed to have a tier list.
@@nicocchi I'm also asking because I don't know if the cast or the order they are recruited is different, which makes some better/worst because of joining time or some other variable
If you're playing FE7 for the first time you prolly won't be playing Hector Hard Mode, unless you got a save file off of someone else. I think for other modes you can kind of take this list an d move everyone a tier up, so basically all characters are Mid or better. That still makes the highest characters super godly by comparison, but there's less resistance by the game if you wanna use the people in lower categories.
was like: I know this music, lets check, and oh my god the golden sun vibes started when I read the descriptions and I didnt even read it
Sort of a weird thought I had just now: When thinking about your placement of a character in an actual tierlist, there is sth I noticed - some kind of (in lack of a better word) "Meta-Bias". What do I mean with that? An example: Dagdar is a pretty good unit in thracia and you place him pretty high in your og thracia tierlist. Now when you discuss why, you talk about what he's able to do in the chapters he is around and how useful he can be in the early game, but also later on. There is a problem with that tho. Using him in the early game might! be a prerequiste for him to be able to do the helpful stuff in the midgame you accredit him for (remember, just an example). And because the early game is super manageable anyways, the payof of using him isn't that large so far. So let's say Player A uses Dagdar just as you did and how you calculated in your tierlist. He would generate a value x in the early game by being stronger and easier to use than let's say halvan. And because he gains experience, weapon ranks jada jada, he is able to generate value y in the midgame. Now let's have it so that the midgame value y is the more important one, which makes sense, since the early game is easy to begin with and halvan can kill enemies in the early chapters (basically) just as easy. Take Player B now. He sacrifaces the early game value x that dagdar provides and uses halvan instead. Now dagdar is too weak in the midgame to actually contribute y. But halvan might now.
I know this is quite rambly. But do you catch my thought here? Maybe giving units credit for being useful throughout multiple sections of the game should be considered differently, if your original consideration assumed early game usage. Maybe sacrificing a bit of early game efficency might pay off in making the later (harder) chapters more efficient/easier? I feel like that is sth you can only really compare when you tried to actually use different units over multiple playthroughs. Do you have any thoughts on that or does that resonate with you at all?
Anyways just a random side thought, not really related to the vid at all. Love you mekkah, see you in the next stream
I really don't like how you tend to group up Dorcas and Bartre like they are interchangeable since there is a pretty big gap in performance overall.
Dorcas bases are overall better with 6 speed and extra con allowing for steel axe use with only 1 speed lose. Dorcas can double armors and soldiers at base. Higher base level and access to lyn mode mean a quicker promotion if you want to use one of the numerous extra hero crests. Also C in axes plus lyn mode and easy ability to use steal axes mean he can quickly get to A allowing him to make use of that early sliver axe which can allow him to 1HK certain enemies. He should also be able to use the brave axe as soon as you get it and can 1RK myrmidons with sword reavers.
Barte meanwhile literally can't even double soldiers at base and has D in axes while losing 2 speed while wielding steel axe before promotion like wtf. The gap between the two are wide with Bartre's only advantage being that he ends up better then Dorcas if leveled but like why would you.
Even in terms of early game use Bartre just can't do what Dorcas can and honestly should be in high effort.
I've played the game many times now, never ltc but some ironman attempts that I ended up using save states on and I don't really count as true ironmans. I don't understand why everyone says Eliwood is a bad unit. I can understand Lyn because she can die so easily. But the Lord's; including Lyn become some of the best units at end game and after promotion that I don't get why everyone dumpsters them for being bad. Eliwood almost always ends up being one of my best units after his promotion due to his easily accessible rank 5 support by end game and just overall balanced stats; not have really any weakness. They are somewhat easy to train as well as you just have to let them finish off weak units to level and keep them away from the front lines.
Well, spending half the game being C- students really hurts them and isnt really outweighed by their last semester of senior year As
I thought you had to beat FE7 twice to unlock HHM, once on ENM with forced Lyn mode, and once on HNM?
PVT Yes, you do have to beat ENM and HNM before you unlock HHM. But I think he's assuming you're on emulator, played ENM as your first playthrough, and just downloaded a save that gives you HHM unlocked.
Or you could just play ENM and HNM
Also it is an excellent time to develop biasses to the high effort units
I don’t know my early FE games so I thought HHM stood for Hella Hard Mode. Bc Northern California.
we all know who actually is the best character to use in HHM
Mine Glitch Cameron
I feel like you were inconsistent in your application of Lyn mode.
Sain, Kent, Florina, Erk, and Lucius were rated highly assuming you played Lyn mode / used Lyn mode stat boosters.
While Dorcas, Serra, and Lyn were penalized for being weak assuming you skipped Lyn mode.
This makes units like Bartre and Guy comparatively overrated than their peers.
*Special utility exists*
*Nils and Ninian* Am I a joke to you?
The difference is that their utility is always useful as opposed to thieves only being good in maps with lots of chests or good stealables
Theives get a little extra value in certain situations. Dancers give an extra turn to anyone every turn. Much less situational.
Can you do a playthrough of Golden Sun now Mekkah?
I think most of the people here can beat hector hard mode in their sleep, we just love hearing you talk about units lol
How did you get this background music?
It's the soundtrack to another great GBA title -- Golden Sun (Golden Sun: The Lost Age as well)
@@onlyanshu I am aware. It’s my favorite game of all time. I meant how do you get it on a video. I’d love to add it as back ground to my vids.