Jaina: "Glad you could make it, Councillors." Council of Six: "Watch your tone with us, girl. You may be Kirin Tor's new leader, but we're still your superiors as your elders." Jaina: "As if I could forget. Listen, Councillors, there's something about blood elves you should know." Jaina: "Oh no, we're too late. The blood elves have already spread across the city. They may look fine now, but it's only a matter of time before they betray us to the Horde." Council of Six: "What!?" Jaina: "The entire blood elves must be purged from this city!" Council of Six: "How can you even consider that!? There's got to be some other way!" Jaina: "Damn it, Councillors! As your leader I order you to purge the blood elves!" Council of Six: "You are not our better yet, girl! Nor would we obey that command even if you were!" Jaina: "Then I must consider this an act of treason." Council of Six: "TREASON!? Have you lost your mind, Lady Proudmoore!?" Jaina: "Have I? Councillors, but my right as the leader of Kirin Tor, I hereby relieve you of your command and suspend your mages from service." Vereesa: "Jaina, you can't just...!" Jaina: "It's done! Those of you who have the will to save Dalaran, follow me! The rest of you, get out of my sight!" Council of Six: "You've just crossed a terrible threshold, Lady Proudmoore." Jaina: "Vereesa...." Vereesa: "Alright, Jaina. My Silver Covenant will help you do this."
Point you missed with the goblin starting zone: when Thrall was attacked, he was on his way to the Maelstrom on Earthen Ring business, not as a member of the Horde. It's the equivalent of if the Horde used Malfurion's efforts against the Firelands as a good opportunity for an assassination.
@ThatAnimeGuy Garrosh was instructed to lead the Horde until, Thrall returned. He was first given the full mantle and permanent position. After, the goblin hero delivers Thrall's message making him the actual warchief. Thrall was still Warchief when the SI:7 attacked him, but he was on his way with to the Earthern Ring, to save the world from falling into deep holm. So, indeed Stormwind tried to end the world.
Thrall has been the Warchief of the Horde for years, more than a decade up to that point, and suddenly because he says "Guys I'm with this neutral faction now, promise" everyone is supposed to believe it? It's like if we caught Sylvanas now and she was like "Yeah, I did all those horrible things but I JUST changed to be the leader of this orphanage, so now I have complete immunity from everything I've ever done, byeeeee"
@Gabeslogic Uther tried to stop Arthas, Muradin tried to stop Arthas, Therenas was killed by Arthas , Ner’Zhul basically “made” Arthas - but somehow its Alliance fault.
During shadowlands we hear that Arthas did not know what he was doing. The jailor controlled him and gave him the ilusion that he would do everything in the name of the good. Nerzuls soul was just a crafting material to make the armor and frostmourne. Maybe he controled also a small part of arthas but the jailor did the biggest part.
"Now when it comes to things that the horde has done bad, there's a couple of expansions whose sole focus is that" Ouch. That's... Fair, but really hurts.
Dangerous Second account to be faaaaair, the Horde was led by Garrosh and Sylvanas and ultimately followed the orders. I few genocides later the Horde only has the blood of a few million people ie Darnassus, Ashenvale, Gilneas, Southshore and Hillsbrad, Pyrewood and Ambermill, the Pandaren who didn’t obey, Theramore etc.
In Vanilla, the Scarlet Crusade actually even has an emissary in Stormwind Cathedral. Which is kinda funny when you think about it. In reality in Vanilla the Alliance has no reason to be hostile to the Scarlet Crusade.
in desolace there is a quest where the alliance player character impresses a SC emissary enough to be invited to the monastery, problem that your invitation is burned by a Paladin who betrays the SC
@@arthursalustino Well, the Scarlet Crusade was more a case of, "We know that you do bad stuff, but we will look in the other direction." The Alliance simply had no reason to go after the Crusade, because in the end they kept the Scourge and other undead in check essentially making sure that they were able to fully march southwards against for example Southshore. And at least you CAN negotiate with the Crusade on some level (Marjhan and other crusaders helped with the attack on Naxxramas after all), but most undead are completely mindless.
@@CecilyThanador They were also in the depths of undead controlled land. No real way to help them, even if they wanted to. At that point, the alliance never wanted a fullscale war with the horde, which would have happend in that case.
that's right, most of the alliance members (for example jaina and uther) absolutely didn't want to follow his purge. only soldiers loyal to arthas went with him into lordaeron. arthas was taught the way of light, pride and justice by the alliance and by his father. the alliance is clearly not a fault for his downfall.
Am I the only one who feels really sad when I hear mentions of Yrel becoming a Light Supremacist? She was friendly and determined all through WoD. It kind of makes me wish they hadn't written that storyline.
Would be interesting to see what freeing someone from the Light's grasp would entail, if even possible-- just like how we're beginning to see that void corruption isn't necessarily absolute as it seems as well.
This is WoW. It's in-game lore is basically a set of anime-like confrontations with immediate emotions for players from the both sides. Being coherent is one of the last things it's aimed at.
Silithus, Stormheim & the Undead emissary incident are all spot-on. Camp Taurajo was a millitary target during wartime that allowed civillians to escape. That is how you fight wars correctly. While the Purge of Dalaran was an overreaction, comparing the sunreavers actively assisting in a major War Crime to Dalaran aiding the defense - and only the defense - of a city that stood for peace throughout its entire existence is laughable. The trees of Ashenvale are sacred to the Night Elves, so it is beyond me why retaliation is even considered in a video like this. You can't harvest the Azeroth Equivalent of a UNESCO world heritage site and be salty when its protectors fight back.
Lehmannation plus stealing lumber from another nation is also a crime. It would be as if UK invaded Norway and started drilling their oil and then get mad when Norway kicked them out.
1. Elves fiddle with arcane magic 2. arcane magic gets the attention of Sargeras and his Burning Legion 3. burning legion attempts invasion and creates arthas 4. arthas creates sylvanas 5. sylvanas burns down a tree 6. ??? profit
A point you missed though is depending on which side you play on BoD it shows you a different motive for the battle with Rastakhan. Alliance who saw the actual event saw Genn asking Rastakhan to surrender, he refuses and then we have to kill him. your video makes it sound like the alliance's original intent was to kill him. It wasnt. The Horde however gets told a very different conversation, embellished to make it looked like killing him was the original intent. I found this change of context rather creative.
W8 the intent was "to drive a wedge between the zandalari and the horde".And since when did intention matter?The horde intention in the water for thorns was to drive a wedge between the members of the alliance.i mean yes it had something called as utter stupidity and alliance plan had only stupidity.but if that is a justification then isn't the fourth war justified?
@@MrVlad12340 Neither did the Horde, technically. The plan was to capture the world tree. (Capture the troll king) Holding its people hostage and make it harder for the alliance to act. (Taking a Hostage sounds familiar? Talanji) the events are pretty mirrored with the exceptions of the Horde never making landfall on the world tree and instead destroyed it, with the rulers fleeing. While the Alliance made Landfall, demanded the King to Surrender and he stood his ground. I mean if the writers had not been trying to milk BFA with pointless Horde drama, then Sylvanas would already had lost the Horde after burning the Tree. the War of Thorns was planned as an Honorable war, lead by Saurfang. To grant her credit.
What was told to Rastakan doesn't matter in the slightest. He was raided in his home, his fleet decimated and his people killed. He would defend himself no matter what. If the Alliance intention was just to cripple the Horde and Zandalari by destroying the fleet... they didn't have to raid the city at all. They could have just pushed the button to explode all the ships (which they did)... and then just sailed off. Done. No need to remove the leader. Maybe he would join the Horde, maybe he wouldn't. He didn't have the fleet at that point, so it didn't really matter. For the Alliance, it made little difference if it was Rastakan personally or his daughter Talanji leading the Zandalari. It never really held any strategic significance to the Alliance in terms of preventing the war.
something else about the purge... Jaina was a member of the Council of Six.... yes she was given a certain degree of authority to run Dalaran, but not to the degree that she acted in the purge where she could act as judge/jury/executioner and altering the face of Dalaran without the other council members' say.
"The night elves didn't want the orcs chopping trees" I literally don't see what's wrong with this at all, it's their territory, their "sacred" forests. What are they supposed to do, tell them not to?
Valithor they CHOSE the shitty desert to live in. They could have relocated to more fertile lands like Mulgore or even to Ungoro Crater which is choke full of plants and has no sentient life. Also, they signed up a treaty that gave them Azshara in exchange for no longer going into Ashenvale. Which they broke btw.
@Valithor they never asked to borrow lumber or land. Even after treaties were established, The Orcs just keep taking without acknowledgment. Even though they were Invaders and slaves, the orcs rarely learn. There's only one way to deal with invaders who dont respect your way of life.
@@AdmiralButtercrust94 To be SORTA fair, they have the whole "destroy nature" thing basically coded into them. They descended from a long line of Breakers that starts with Grond, a massive elemental giant created by titan Aggramar to combat the Evergrowth, a hivemind of all the plantlife on Draenor. The orcs are descendants of a construct that was DESIGNED to destroy nature. So like many of Azeroth's problems, it comes down to titans' surprising incompetence.
I'm surprised Varian's mission to assassinate Moira Bronzebeard wasn't listed. Sure it didn't result in Moira's death, but that was still a very "awkward" thing where Stormwind was deciding how other nations should handle their shit... SI:7 hit squad to handle Ironforge politics (without being requested I might add).
In wich they simply replied by slaughterin the orcs without telling them what they even did wrong they came crashing along with a fucking demigod to wipe them out. If Tyrande didn´t have her starwberry weeks 24/7 all year round she would have at least said "hey dudes thats holy ground you are on if you want some trees i got some druids that can help you grow them fast but you got to stay out of here" but nope Demigod nuke it is just for some people trying to get wood to have a roof above their head
Which one do you mean? USA, Russia, Israel, UK, numerous sub-saharan counties, India, China, numerous Arab countries, Pakistan, Japan... etc.? Everyone has the attitude that they are right at the end, and can pretend to do the right thing. Although aome are more honest about their true motives than others.
Lot of people talking about alliance "killing" Vulpera during the Vol'dun assault. I'm wondering if people actually do them because you don't kill them at all, you scare them off with a special totem. The person who gives you the quest even says "The Vulpera are not our enemy, but we cannot allow them to transport supplies for the Horde." And that's all we burn is Horde supplies, not their homes or them.
Because if made kinda an uproar on the PTR at the time. Thats still in the heads of people to "blame" the alliance for bad or cruel actions against...ehm..horde? or..people
The vulpera weren't with the horde at the time. Same with zandalari. They killed people who had nothing to do with the conflict simply for trading with the horde.
They don't have homes.Those "supplies" you burnt was all they ever had.ever.the Vulpera are nomads but let me point out that there was some reference to the gilneans having done something to them
@@MrVlad12340 that was horde.dont remember Zandalari there fairly..........Only orcs that jaina one shoted.and it was rexxar who led the attacks with Lillian...
@Dean Robin I would like to see it as well and I am playing on both sides and consider the Faction war dumb at this stage (depose Sylvanas now and finally give us the option to form guilds accross the faction line and play and raid together!)...I have no problem with most Horde races, except one: The Orcs! Who are dishonorable alien conquerors who should IMHO go back to Outland (Nagrand is habitable!) or even the new alternate Draenor!) :)
Maluthor and Garrosh. And Gul’dan. And Nerzhul. And those morons that kept attacking night elfs back in Vanilla. And every second forsaken... list goes on.
*All examples of Alliance Aggression!* 16 Minute Video *All examples of Horde Aggresstion!* TH-cam: We're sorry, you've exceeded the maximum video length for this platform.
So, I was watching this guy do 10 hours of island expeditions (he is horde) because I haven't played horde side and I wanted to see how our island nps talked etc.., one of the gnomes was like "If you don't succeed I'll shoot you myself!" or something like that. Savage. Gnomes are savage. Haha
VladTutushkin literally held orcs as slaves and in camps, treated them like animals. Even if some orcs attacked the alliance that was still messed up. Ever heard thrall’s life story?
@@knogne5073 It was either that or wipe them out completely calmer heads (Proudmoore) prevailed. Say what you want about the camps but the way I see it until proven to be civil keeping them under close watch was the smartest decision, Enemies close and all that
K Nogne and as others mentioned alternative was to kill them all. And just so you know - those humans who came up with camps idea - lordaeronians are now in the Horde as forsaken. And high elfs wanted to just kill all orcs and now they also in the horde as blood elfs so go and bitch as them , not at people of stormwind who actually had no say in that issue.
Yeah they took role of ogres, as constructors of battle ships and war vehicles. Also they are perfect counterpart of gnomes with all this technology stuff!
Because she was with the prophet, who by that point had led the Zandalri trolls in multiple incursions and uprisings across the planet, making him at least an enemy of the Alliance.
That was such nonsense, why are there night elves skulking around eversong? There was no pre existing rivalry there, my guess is it was just game designers making quests and wanted horde elves to fight alliance elves.
@@NetherCrafterSMC It was 10.000 years ago and the night elves let the blood elves go their own way. When Malfurion and Tyrande meet the blood elves 10.000 years later theres no tension or hate towards the blood elves, they help each other.
are you just going to leave out the fact that Sylvanas killed Genn's son? attacked and blighted the whole city of Gilneas? I don't think Genn needed additional provocation to seek her demise.
Sylvanas never blighted Gilneas, and evening if she had, none of what you claimed justifies Greymane’s attempts to conduct a complete genocide of the Forsaken. He also violated the peace treaty when he attacked the Horde fleet in Stormheim without any provocation or cause to do so.
@Bleeding Eye Watcher you missed the part where she used the plague despite Garroshe’s orders which led to Gilneas becoming uninhabitable for a long time? We dont even know how inhabitable it is now. And no, breaking the lamp is not a genocide. Forsaken are not even a race - they are afflicted members of human and some other races. Its like saying that lepergnomes are a race and not just irradiated and insane gnomes.
@teslagod2003 are you simple? Horde attacked Alliance during WoD on Ashran, initiating the PvP stuff there lorewise. Alliance didnt used that as a justification for a full blown war. Plus Gilneas was neutral back then and fell under a massive attack that was completely unprovoked. Comparing that to a battle between Genn and Sylvanas which btw revealed that banshee was again up to no good is laughable and does not justify anything horde did. Alliance was never bigoted or racist or warmongering. If anything they act like too much forgiving SJWs and keep appeasing the horde , at least thats what high king always does.
One argument I'd like to make about Jaina's rampage: It was not condoned by the Alliance. Even Varian scolded her for doing so. So I would not call it an Alliance war crime, just a war crime done by Jaina, whom acted alone.
Well, the Horde only invaded Azeroth and slaughtered some humans and killed her brother and father. And despite all that, she still saved Garrosh's father Grom and most importantly giving Grom a chance to free the entire Orc race from Mannaroth's demon corruption, she only got her entire city nuked by the very Orcs she helped to save who then celebrated in Orgrimmar after. No biggy!
And then she told that next horde will nuke Teldrassil and people laughed at her. And then horde nuked Teldrassil and celebrated in Orgrimmar again. But horde is innocent! Its just whole races keep falling on those genocides horde leaves lying around!
@@damackabet.4611 Exactly, she sacrificed her own father because she thought it was the right thing to do. Because she trusted the Horde and wanted to let them have a home. Then she got repaid with a nuke.
11:55 You forgot to mention that she killed the Alliance forces that help her take the capital city. I think that would have been a pretty big deal to not trust the Forsaken by the Alliance at the time. 5:56 There is a quest in Aszuna called "Fate of the Queen's Reprisal" that if done by the Alliance gives intel about Sylvannas motivations in that zone. So it wouldnt have been a blind attack by Genn as if he could have had knowledge that Sylvannas wasn´t going to the Broken Islands to aid the war effort against the Legion. Though is hard to tell since, as I recall, there is no canon order by a lore stranpoint in which the zones have to be done.
I don't think so, to be honest. Many people, for some reason, put the bad things Gul'dan's Horde did to the Thrall's Horde.... He probably should've made a different name lol.
i really would like to watch a video from him about this topic, if he didnt make it before (but i think he didnt). in my opinion, there's "good" and "bad" in both of them so i'm really curious
@@JustAChinesePleb Because they followed him, Saurfang was the one who quite literally wiped out entire population of Stormwind. Half of the people who have been part of first horde is still in Horde. Horde has pages and pages of warcrimes both before and after the first horde.
Fun thing to consider... we're viewing this from a modernistic, "western" universalist point, that exists for like 60ish years. As well as the fact that we're looking from a human point, not orc or elf one. In reality all races/factions will have a drastically different views on what's right or not. Just think about the lifespans and therefore different reproductive strategies. Think about intelligence, faith, relation to elements, nature etc.
@@BaltisLV well, yes the story is in fact written by humans, for humans of the 21st century it'd be pretty stupid to consider it from a savage troll tribes perspective as we are, in fact, not trolls. same goes from the draenei or any race i get what you're trying to say but it should be self evident
@@joshlyman7059 It is evident that the story is this way in current Warcraft. However there's absolutely nothing stupid about considering it from a more detailed, or dare I say, interesting perspective. It has been done in fantasy before, just takes alot more writing. Even modern fantasy like Warhammer or 40k tries doing so (quite decently I'd say). I'm not saying Warcraft completely lacks it, but it could be improved a bit more.
@@BaltisLV zes u can try but any writing and any reasoning about it would still be done by a human who lives in a human society, we cans study other cultures but we cant not see it through our lens which was my point, WoW is both written, made and played by humans
You do realise that the horde have a quest were we must save pandaren that don't want to be part of the war because the alliance force them to build a military base and they also make child work AND they don't even gave them anything to drink. the alliance even have quest were they torture people ! the horde as done some mistakes under the influence of some bad people but at least most of them get punished for it and at least half of the worst "accidents" are made because the alliance have made some horrible things. People of the alliance show themselves as model of purity but in truth they do atrocity worse than the horde but never admit it.
@@nigoulenoblehiboux9812 For a bunch of honorable individuals I sure saw a lot of civillians impaled to walls with pitchforks in Stormsong Valley :l My list goes on here also >_
13:00 Correction: Sylvanas also just murdered any Forsaken who tried to meet with their Human families in that book. Also, I still reject book and comic lore in the game, because they conflict constantly.
"i see now why your two factions can't stop fighting!!! every reprisal is itself an act of aggression!! and every act of aggression triggers an immediate reprisal!!!" - taran tszu
To clarify some things, Jaina acted on her own and Varyan told her off for it during the purge of Dalaran and they did turn a blind eye to Garrosh's actions and then lied to Jaina's face. And Camp Taurajo was an act of war during war times, a war that the horde started without provocation with the invasion of Ashenvale and the events that unfolded at Theramore. The Alliance also tried to minimize casualties and actually arrested and killed those who took it too far and disobeyed orders. As mentioned in the video, Baine himself doesn't even hold it over the alliance. Then there's Genn's attack on the forsaken which was hardly unjustified, like, are we really gonna forget the events of Cataclysm? He had two reasons. Firstly, vengeance for the horrific and yet again, unprovoked genocidal invasion of Gilneas where they used chemical weapons to destroy his kingdom and killed his son. Secondly, the alliance at this point believed that the horde had betrayed them causing Varyan's death. What we're left with is the attack on the goblins and the dwarves attacking the tauren for not letting them excavate their ancestral lands. These two events while certainly bad, take place on a pretty small scale. And to be honest, anything the alliance did in the fourth war was 110% justified after Teldrassil and all the other shit Sylvanas pulled. Teldrassil was one of the most horrific events in the Warcraft story and Blizzard themselves have on numerous occasions literally referred to it as genocide. It was far worse than Theramore and the purge of Dalaran. It rivals the draenei genocide on Draenor. It was real bad.
Buhu, alluance are good rest bad. You cant compare kill... Plz shut up. Bouth side have crap on the shoes. Like countrys in real world. No way justify it.
Bakuryu Kenji you really going for that one? Can you compare a theft with murder? Which is worse? Murder. Horde basically commits mass murder while worst thing Alliance did was groceries theft.
To clarify your clarification She imprisoned/exterminated entire population due to actions of a fraction of them. Random people and civilians that had nothing to do with it. Taurajo was an actio during wartime - that lead to death of civillians. Alliance did not killed them - they just forced them to walk into a death trap. Justification has nothing to do with it. Alliance and Horde were in a pact of nonagression and working together against LEgion at the time. Genn decided himself to break this treaty off, attack and risked the entire operation to extract Titan Artifact, risking the failure of the only plan Azeroth had against Legion. He risked, quite literally, everyone's lives for his vengence. Belief about Varian death is not a factor - peace treaty is a peace treaty, they broke it. But if we accept your logic - then Forsaken attack on Gilneas was justified. A long awaited revenge of not Forsaken - but people of Loarderon that Gilneas left to the mercy of the scourge years ago, And yes, without a doubt, Teldrassil was a tragedy of, as far as my lore knowledge tells me, unprecedented scale. But just because someone commited grand crime we cannot just ignore existance of a smaller one. To use a comparison - just because Hitler and the Nazis commited horrific atrocities, that does not mean Stalin or Mao were not monsters.
@Goku Black didnt “forced”. They signed up a contract to work for the Alliance in exchange for supplies but then Alliance found out that pandaren have no working ethics whatsoever and constantly take naps at work, leave when they feel like it and dont understand what “quick work” is. Basically that plus Sha stoking paranoia in the commander led to her ordering pandaren to be forced to comply to the work quotas. Meanwhile horde just enslaved local pandaren, but as “motivation” used their kids who were held hostage.
The questlines in the Jade Forest are kind of a wash, because both factions have very similar storylines just at different points (North for Horde, South for Alliance) of the zone and allying with a different race. Both leaders (Nazgrim and I think Rell Nightwind) have a failure in battle, get half-possessed by Sha, get purified by Taran Zhu, free some native Pandaren who were strong armed into helping the opposing faction build a base, defeat an enemy leader who was fully taken over by the Sha, recruit the monkeys/fish, then head towards the battle of the Serpent's Heart. So bringing up any of this doesn't help or hurt the 'Alliance bad' narrative of the video.
killing the Forsaken emissaries actually makes sense. It's sad and was a decision motivated purely by blind fear and hate but it did make sense. Keep in mind Lordaeron, one of the greatest human Kingdoms, had just gotten obliterated by the undead in what could basically be described as an apocalypse. This would have freaked out everyone left in the alliance and undead were already seen evil creatures *prior* to the scourge. Couple that with the fact that one of the big tools used by the Scourge to weaken Lordaeron was a plague that created undead and it honestly makes perfect sense why they panicked and killed every Forsaken who showed up. "OH GOD IT'S AN UNDEAD HERE TO SPREAD PLAGUE!!! KILL IT!!!". So entirely understandable.
Scarlet Crusade should be an offshoot of Alliance criminals (which they are) following their bigotry to the conclusion. On the same note the Horde had its own sect of fanatic infiltrators trying to subvert what the Horde stood for, the Burning Blade. Vanilla would've been much more interesting if he stories wound around the Horde throwing the Crusade in the Alliance's face at the same time as the Alliance threw the Burning Blade in the Horde's face. That would make the thin peace Thrall and Jaina cooked at the end of Warcraft III crumble organically. Instead, what we got is the Burning Blade stories never really paying off, and the Alliance never really being forced to confront what the Crusaders did in the Plaguelands.
@@MrVlad12340 The Scarlet Crusade was formed from the remnants of the Knights of the Silver Hand and gathered citizens from all member states of the old Alliance of Lordaeron. Yes, that includes citizens of Stormwind. The Alliance itself did not directly associate itself with the Crusade, but theye were not openly hostile either. In fact, quite the opposite. The Catheddral of Light in Stormwind held a Crusade ambassador, Brother Crowley, who directed adventurers to do the Crusade's work on Desolace. So Stormwind tolerated the Crusade until it was revealed they wewre under the influence of the Dreadlords. But they were corrupt before that - since the death of the Ashbringer, they have been sliding down the ramp of zealotry and bigotry, and that's why the Argent Dawn left their ranks. But the Alliance was still supportive of the Crusade, and only didn't associate further with them because they had little presence in northern Lordaeron, where the Horde was stronger.
@@moscanaveia not true. Alliance stopped associating with them after Hero goes to Desolace and then to Lordaeron and finds out about Scralett zealotry, Dreadlord infiltration was only found out later.
ILIDAN ARTHAS JAINA MECHATORKE CENARIUS CORDANA and next we will see tyrande or malfurion, cuz tyrande wants war just by revenge.. and we dont want to kill all nigth elves.. only the ones who want war
@@horsthooden4600 only for garrosh who almost kill all chieft in the horde.. we are the bad guys.. yeah that makes sense.. like knowing that iv7 KNOW the true about the death of varian.. and nobody told that to anduin.. thank god i use all the clases..
Ilidan was never part of the alliance. Arthas did stratholm as his worst act, when he became the lich king he was mind controlled by nerzul (an orc) Jaina and merchtorks fights were instigated by the burning of teledrassil soooo count that one if you like? I wouldn’t Cenarius I am not sure if he’s ever done anything directly for the alliance, he trained malferon like 2000+ years before it was made and his fight was him being maddened by the emerald nightmare Cordana was a straight up betrayal full credit Siege of origimarr I feel is a weak answer to horde bosses because that was during a civil war. I will also say.
I love the way you structured and edited this video. Would like 2 see more videos like this one. Do the Horde? Maybe each race's independent cultures on the opinions of the others crossing the AvH barrier.
I mean how can you even do Horde one? That would take hours, Horde has simply way too many of these acts where for alliance you have to spesifically look for them and even Twist the situation a little.
Little more context on #1. The bell wasn't even moved through the city, they just used Dalaran's teleportation network. I seem to recall the Alliance doing exactly the same thing to get the bell into Darnassus, but I could be wrong.
Mostly its just Jaina pissed that she was betrayed (again..) by bloodelfs and therefor horde. And it was not that long after Theramore which broke her at the time. She only started to heal in BFA and is now trying AGAIN to bond with the horde. ...When do you think horde will betray alliance (and jaina) again?^^
@@Fion355 There was no "again", it was literally the fall out from Theramore. Probably the first thing she did as leader of the Kirin Tor, which lorewise should have never been a thing. If you watched the video it should be obvious that while the Horde is absolutely brutal in war it's the Alliance that keeps breaking their treaties. At least Horde leaders face consequences for their actions.
originalShorai she gave Sunreavers a pass after their initial betrayal that led to destruction of Theramore. And Horde broke its treaty when Garrosh attacked night elfs while if we will talk about later conflicts Horde broke their treaty again when they initiated conflict at Ashran in WoD which was a full scale military conflict. So “Genn is at fault” is bullshit, Horde spat on any treaties they had back in WoD pre-Legion.
@@MrVlad12340 Ok, so that made NO sense. The Sunreavers were never AT FAULT for those two events. A small group of conspirators were. Just like the small group that did the exact same thing for the Alliance. So saying that "she forgave them" is an excuse, not a fact. A fact is that lorewise she should have never been made leader of the Kirin Tor on Rhonin's last wishes alone because they have a ruling council of Archmage's and she only post MoP has demonstrated that level of ability. Another fact is that the random citizens and shopkeepers cut down in her xenophobic outrage definitely had nothing to do with either event. As to Garrosh attacking Night Elves, and yadda-yadda, there was no treaty for him to break. Until the end of MoP when Garrosh was on the floor in chains there wasn't really even a ceasefire between the Horde and Alliance. As for Ashran, there is a reason the Alliance never brings that up. Mainly because yet again, just like with the Divine Bell, they sought out a Weapon of Mass Destruction to use against the Horde despite their new treaty so the Horde had to take a defensive action. Varian knew that they had overstepped what should be acceptable by treaty, and that he'd do the same, never brought it up as a violation. The fact that it was also mostly a battle between The Explorers League and The Reliquary, not Alliance vs Horde, also plays into it.
originalShorai most of what you said is bullcrap. Alliance dosent bring it up because if they did then Blizz “ingenious plot” for Slutvanas would look even more retarded. And as we learn later far more then a few Sunreavers were in on what was going on but remained silent which kinda damns them all. Also, Jaina had to act because of Garrosh, otherwise she would have lost Theramore anyway, just to more conventional army takeover. What i am saying is that most of the crap that is happening in the world would have being avoided if Horde ceased their “ur so biggut and hypucretic” shit and learned to live as civilized, normal beings and not a bunch of warmongering maniacs jerking off to genocide.
Horde guy: Seriously though, why are we on separate sides? Far as I can tell, we’re just the same as you guys, but different appearances. And the only reason that we set up the Horde, is because the Alliance did bad stuff to some random group of people in the past. And the only reason they have the Alliance is because we did some bad stuff to some other random race or nationality in the past. Alliance guy: Yeah, that's because they were fighting eachother. They kinda still are. Horde guy: No no, but I mean, even if we were to pull out today, and they were to come take the Horde, they would have a BUNCH of races that hate them because of what they did in the past. Whoop de fucking do!
Orcs are pure souls man, they didn't do ANYTHING wrong, it was the demon blood. Now ignore the expansion where we see an alternate Horde that never had the blood and still does the same shit.
Xathian or the expansions where Horde followed Garrosh... and then followed Sylvanas into the same exact fucken war for the same reason and didnt even questioned what they were doing till the very end.
Ignore the fact that the alliance went out of their way to prevent civilian casualties during the sack of Taurajo. and during that same expansion the horde razed southshore to the ground (killing or enslaving every alliance individual they could find, regardless of if they were civilians) and they sacked Silverwind refuge, Also intentionally killing civilians. Yet once again, the horde tries taking the moral high ground and saying we're the bad guys.
That thing was a huge fail on the Alliance side. We thought that we were being all nice, sparing the citizens, but instead we accidentally sent them into Quillboar territory where they all died.
>Furry attacks Horde >Zombie Hag commits mass genocide and burns down a tree because she wants to kill as many people as possible >The Alliance is to blame (?) This is just another reminder that Elves ruin everything.
i wish the alliance was as bad as the horde and actually destroyed cities and genocided the horde in mass. oh well. we still to do a lot of catch up before being as bad as them.
1. Totally agree, I felt awful doing that questline. HOWEVER, Kirin Tor was officially neutral at that point, Jaina officially joins Alliance afterwards. That being said, the Silver Covenant takes part in and they are Alliance, so gonna give you a point. (Protecting a city and stealing a weapon of mass destruction isn't the same thing, though.) 2. Was gonna point out what Baine had said, but you already pointed it out^^ 3. Pretty sure truce went out the window when the Horde abandoned Alliance at the Broken Shore. Also Genn attacked Sylvanas while she was attempting to enslave val'kyr (Second War red dragons flashbacks, anybody?), I think you meant that the admiral attacked Sylvanas' fleet? But again, fair enough. Regarding Sylvanas' comment about how Genn and that admiral wasn't punished, I assume it was largely due to the fact that they stopped Sylvanas from clearly evil actions by the end of Stormheim storyline (and since somebody once argued with me that they should have been immediately recalled to explain themselves, one, they were practically stranded at first, and two, Anduin cannot just up and recall a leader of nation, especially since almost all of the forces there are said leader's people! If he'd do that, all of the Gilneans would follow their king back to Stormwind, and Alliance would have to move some other forces into Stormheim). 4. Everytime I see somebody telling how Zandalar wasn't allied with the Horde, I log onto my Horde alt and watch the Horde army assembled in their harbor. 5. Pretty sure novel's lore is more important in the long run than quest's lore, and in the novel there's no mention of goblin's being attacked. 6. THAT WHOLE QUESTLINE MAKES NO SENSE LOREWISE! Lets start with Alliance SOMEHOW capturing the Motherf***ing Thrall (I think there was allusion at the end of some traitor among the Kor'kron but if it were then it didn't go anywhere), then Worgen being a high ranking member of SI:7 already despite how they don't joining Alliance until AFTER Wolfheart novel, which takes place weeks if not months after Cataclysm started, oh, and icing on the cake, the whole ordeal not being brought up even ONCE in any novel or even quest (actually, correction, in Twilight of the Aspects Thrall mentions how he had been captured, but doesn't mention Alliance involvement), while in contrast Gilneas being attacked by the Horde gets brought up practically every novel and expansion (seriously, I think only in WoD it wasn't mentioned). I generously think that Blizzard wanted to make both of the new races feel more like part of their faction from the start, and what better way than having them face off against their enemies, but in case of goblin's questline they should have done better job making sure it makes sense, and considering how it wasn't brought up at all anywhere else I think they too had realized that and try to pretend that it didn't happen. (also, since both previous points are about goblins, just gonna point out that I THINK they number of goblins who aren't evil/assholes/jerks in lore can be counted on ONE hand ;p) 8. Alliance allied with Forsaken against Balnazzar, and in return their commander got killed and EATEN, while his forces were either chased out or killed (we know of at least one survivor in novel Cycle of Hatred). Strange how they considered them monsters afterwards. (Same with Nathanos' comments about Alliance, you can't say that they hunt you down like dogs if you yourself slaughtered an outpost of former allies to get a hold of some f***ing documents!) I will admit though that they should have listened to the emissaries at least, though, considering that they DID listen to death knights', and I will have Arthas chew out Varian for that in my fanfiction when I get to it (www.fimfiction.net/story/55373/rebirth-of-the-damned). Also it's possible that Onyxia had played a hand in that, but that's just speculation. - Agree, internment camps were bad. Alliance should have just slaughtered the orcs (:sarcastic:), and that way it wouldn't have broken up due to taxes that their upkeep costed, and the common people, unhappy with those taxes, wouldn't turn to the Cult of the Damned for promise of unity and immortality. Interment Camps led to rise of the Scourge! (semi-sarcastic ;p) - The night elves OUTLAWED the use of magic, under the penalty of death. The Highborne ignored them, and 4k years after War of the Ancients caused a storm of magic that threatened Ashenvale Forest. The night elves could have KILLED them all, but instead showed mercy and exiled them. That decision led to high elves invading troll lands, teaching humans magic, founding Dalaran and later Council of Tirisfal, which eventually led to birth of Medivh, his corruption by Sargeras, opening Dark Portal and all 4 Wars, so again, showing mercy screwed people over. As for the orcs, they attacked them when they realize that they were chopping down an unreasonable amount of trees (and they reeked of demons or something). - Not defending Yrel, but just recalled what Mag'har and some Horde players say about the draenei afterwards. So just gonna point out that they at LEAST gave orcs the choice to convert. When in original timeline the orcs began starting shit, they didn't give draenei choice, they just started slaughtering them and then paved a massive road out of their bones.
For the last part. It's isn't really a choice if the option is join us or die. Blizzard take on the light is clear, follow them blindly like the void and you'r as evil. Just look at their Na'aru. And the orc back at that time were manipulated by Kil'jaeden. Yes, a draenei, working for the legion as on of its leader. I mean aren't the elves responsibles for the legion to discover Azeroth in the first place ? Onyxia couldn't have had that much of influence on dwarf, her hold was on human. And if she's an excuse for early wow shitty behaviour for Alliance, i don't see why gul'dan and other legion's follower aren't one for the horde. And the human which Silvannas killed were top tier trash. They said they would have no remorse exploiting her force, but they would have to get the fuck away from the town once they would have liberate it. Forsaken needed the town too, to protect themselves, and it was their town too. They were already considered as monster because they were undead. Alliance hate for undead is regularly shown in the story without a need for them to do evil deed. Internment camp were an excuse, most were poorly handle and the orc were poorly treated, they could have offer the orc a chance to proves their values, they did not. And when the orc tried to leave, they were hunted too. Which is kinda sensical knowing the war they had with them a few year earlier. Night Elves have always been jerk. To realize that you just need to look at how they let the Tauren dies killed by centaurs and pigmen, while they'r one of the most peacefull species of their continent. And their treatment of their old Allies, blood elves and Nightborne is clearly showing how they think. Baine pointed that out, but the Alliance forgot that Theremore were as much a good military target especially with how they worked with the Alliance in cataclism. Kirin tor weren't really neutral anymore when they decided to offer troops in a defense of a city openly at war with the horde. This questline made even less sense when you know that the ship that tried to capture thrall are from Theremore. But it is as it is. I mean Thrall giving power to garosh is at least as much stupid. No the treaty was still up after the broken shore, they reiterate it a while after Genn do his retarded shit for which some character do talk about it being a mistake he shouldn't have done. He didn't know Silvanas was going to do that at the moment he started to attack her force. He was simply acting his revenge, despite it being against the interest of Azeroth. And Val'kir are valuable for a races that can't reproduce and need exterior help to even keep existing. But yes sylvanas would have do it for some shaddy evil plan. Rastakhan didn't like the idea to allies completely with the horde it was more a situational allies than a definitive one. Unlike his daughter which think that the Zandalari needed some change and new allies. But yes, the attack on Zandalar made sense in a milatary stand point, however not the bullshit Anduin told himself.
Don't forget the Void Elves used void necromancy on dead zandalari warbeasts during the Zuldazar assault, despite the Alliance's longstanding hatred of undead and necromancy. And also them sending "Purge Squads" to attack the Vulpera in Vol'dun, which was before the Vulpera even officially joined the Horde.
Um, "Purge Squads"? I didn't do the assault in Vol'dun too often, the quests are too long for my liking, but I am pretty sure Alliance quest specifically orders to not attack Vulpera, only their cargo (which they trade to the Horde).
@Valithor maybe but in both case it comes down to undead whith there free will and memory coming back to stormwind seeking what they think to be there home and in one case they killed them without even listening to what they have to say and in the other they still are walking amongst the living citizen of the town... that's some clear double standards.
You missed couple of things about Theramore. Kirin Tor did send troops to help defend the city but one of blood elves committed treason and was lowering its defence but he was doscovered. Jaina got mad Ronin died that day to soften a blow of the mana bomb. Jaina didnt revenge since she didnt think all blood elves are reaponsible for that, only after second treason of Kiron Tor she decided to purge city. Also she spared anyone who didnt resisted.
That’s false regarding the Purge of Dalaran. Jaina killed Sunreavers who had surrendered, and it’s also worth noting that the Sunreavers had no involvement with the destruction of Theramore or the acquisition of the Divine Bell.
Er...but Jaina isn’t alliance. Even before BFA she wasn’t alliance. Her attempts at cross faction alliances is like...a core part of her character and backstory. I mean I guess technically she is ally now bc of the Kul Tirans joining the alliance, but that’s recent and long after the purge of Dalaran.
After the purge Jaina broke the Kirin'Tor's neutrality and it became a faction of the Alliance, with her as its leader. Jaina has been Alliance ever since.
@@danu2133 For like 5 mins until she left the Kirin Tor to Khadgar and the Kirin Tor became neutral again. And TBH I wouldn't consider her a faction leader even during that time. Not like Varian and the rest. And in between those two events she helped during the Siege of Org. The purge of Dalaran had nothing to do with the Alliance and everything to do Jaina and the city itself. It was literally a brief civil war in Dalaran.
To your point of the Alliance troops being sent to Theramore Rhonin was Explicit in his orders that they were SOLEY to defend Theramore. They would NOT attack.
Yeaaah sure... Compare a lightnign strike operation to kill a King (who was offered a surrender) because his city was harbouring a Horde army and sent their own soldiers to assault Kul'Tiras with a full blown genocide against a surrendered landmass full of civilians and wiping out 1/3 of their race in one night. (Teldrassil WAS a landmass btw).
How many peace treaties and genocides have the horde participated in? Say what you want about Tyrande and Genn. But their reactions are the most realistic when you consider all these other stupid fucking plot points blizzard forces. Let's keep the War and warcraft. Fuck this Horde council, fuck this High King nonsense.
Majority of these leave out key pieces of information and are seemingly intentionally misleading. 1-Jaina's Purge of Dalaran: Aethas knew they toke the bell, and didn't stop them. The leader she talked to and tried twice for him to confess and work with her didn't. Only after his refusal did they take down his guards and go for the purge. The bell in question was an awful artefact that would have done extreme harm to the horde and alliance both if Garrosh got to use it and only where stopped because of Anduin. During the ToT story line multiple altercations occur where Lor'themar feigns ignorance of the bell and Aethas shys away multiple times to confessing his sins. Her goal wasn't exile, it was detainment to find the culprits, she knew not everyone was a guilt but because Aethas wouldn't help, everyone was a suspect and this was too dangerous of an item to shrug away. 2-Camp Taurajo: You forgot to mention innocents where killed by the looters because they where ex prisoners, they where then killed or arrested by alliance players. Also, the camp wasn't training your run of the mill hunter warrior, but Kor'kron, Garrosh's own force. They where a vital military target especially considering Garrosh's expansion north. 3-Unprovoked attack on stormheim: This is wow's fault. Originally it was intended that you would go from Azsuna to Val'Sharah to Highmountain to Stormheim. During the Azsuna questline the alliance find a letter on a horde sailor informing them of Sylvanas's planned attack on Stormheim. This is what is intended to lead on to the questline in Stormheim, said quest is still in the game as a lootable quest with a turn in with Greymane, nothing connected or leading from it. In cannon Greymane knew about the plan to capture the Valkyries, oh and she brought plague there. 4-Attack on Dazar'Alor: The Zandalari trolls where letting the horde using there city as a base. They had already had the attack on Brennadam. The unprovoked attack on a kul'tiran town with no alliance military set up where they mostly killed and also specifically brutalised civilians. Even during the alliance assault they had given full plans to avoid civilian causalities. This one is jumping through so many hoops to try and act as if the alliance ain't saints during this conflict. 5-Silithus: This would have a strong point, the alliance striked first, unprovoked, and with intent to kill against non combative forces. Except you entirely ignored that Azeroth woke up Magni to tell all the horde and Alliance leaders, before the mining, that hey, Azeroth is bleeding, don't hurt her more and try and help her. Sylvanas got the message and lied that she would before having the goblins do exactly what the world soul said not to do. Oh and the tauren fully agreed with healing azeroth and where to go south as well to help heal the wound, hence why there leaders weren't present during the attack on Darkshore. Sylvanas's preparations toke place prior to the magni meeting, but she ordered it to continue following. 6-The goblin attack: This is a good example of over aggression. The only left out info is the treaty was broken by Garrosh, the alliance weren't aware that Thrall was doing Earthern Ring business and not horde warmongering. But none the less, a good example of alliance going too far. Oh and the goblins didn't join the horde. Gallywix did and he owns the lives of all goblin player characters. 7-Stonespear Tribe: Clear cut alliance being the offenders with no redeeming factor. Should be mentioned that this isn't the first altercation like this or last and both the Nelf's and Tauren oppose the Dwarven archaeological efforts. 8-Undead emissaries: This was a retcon from the chronicles and it even specifically notes that Sylvanas 'claims' to have sent letters with non returning. And the alliance have no knowledge of this what so ever, and it's nothing something they would need to hide. "Hey, you know those moral-less rotting corpses lead by the women who betrayed the previous alliance High General, yea, she reached out to be allies, sounds good right?" 9-Alliance bad for not liking an undead in stormwind. Shocker. Shit point considering Turalyon instantly changed his view and Greymane in the same book came to accept the undead and had empathy for them. Daelin Proudmoore attacked a group of armed Orcs. His only encounters where them as the aggressors, there is no reason he wouldn't be immediately be aggressive and proven right. The interment camps was another example of the alliance being overly empathetic, not bad. Arthas, really? The Elves after being informed by Malygos, who was sane at the time, that it was an over use and careless use of arcane magic that attracted Sargeras. The Elves of Kalimdor under the leadership of Malfurion and Tyrande said, ok, no arcane. The highbourne where ostracised because they didn't agree, they also started summoning demons. The High Elves of Kalimdor went a number of ways. Those of Quel'Thalas had the Sunwell to sustain them and also turned to fel, oh and torturing a Naaru. Other High Elves community broke there addiction. Those of the silver covenant used artifacts and weaned themself of there magical addiction and those of the Lodges, in particular Quel'Danil lodge, broke there own addiction by sheer will. And given that you could make more points for why the Blood Elves are bad, or even why the Nightborne are bad, it's a huge reach to call out the Night Elves to do a thing they where advised to by those older wiser and trusted to guide them, oh and where also proven right. If you think Yrel is being unreasonable for wanting to convert the Orcs then you are implying that the Draenei's lives are simply worth less than the full freedom of the orcs, as there is no question that with time the Orcs will raid again, as they always have done and they Draenei will die unless they strike first. The argument against Yrel is primarly based that a great Naaru tried to convert illidan, and he refused and killed her for it. But Illidan has been either a anti-villain or villain from introduction till now, not once has he been a good person, trying to purge him made perfect sense, gotta remember he is all for mental enslavement, straight up slavery, needless torture, the torture of souls, and the list goes on. You had two strong points, the rest have too many flaws.
Regarding the last point; His argument also completly disregards how the Iron Horde under Alt-Grommashs leadership had been gearing up for Genocide just as in the canon time line, with their blood magic mainly using Draenei captives. Ner'Zhuls alliance with the void lords was completely detached from this altogether and would have had the potential to destroy Draenor, and Grommash went ahead and welcomed him into the Iron Horde anyway. If it weren't for their Velen, their most senior leader, sacrificing himself to stop Ner Zhuls plan, it even would have worked.
I wouldn't say Dailin Proudmoore attacked the Horde without provocation (or at the very least, not without reason). He fought them in the second war, lost a portion of his fleet and his son to their Dragon riders. What he knew the Horde to be was savage Aliens from another world invading them to kill them all. Basically, for him to see them establishing a new foothold without attacking the Horde, would be the same for us players to see the Burning Legion establishing a new foothold on the broken shore and just accept them as new residents to Azeroth.
As to Jaina defending them, that was all done very hastily and he might have thought he deceived or even mind controlled. After all we saw a lot of mortal palling up with legion or worshiping them , that dosent mean that Legion is to be trusted or welcomed.
The whole reason Thrall led the Horde to Kalimdor was to avoid further conflict with the Alliance. The endgame for Daelin was the complete genocide of all Horde races. Every last man, woman, and child. He proved that when he massacred the inhabitants of Razor Hill during the initial assault on Durotar. He became the very evil he thought he was fighting. Even Anduin acknowledged Daelin was wrong.
@@Ultimaton100 It's not always black and white, when it comes to whats right or wrong. After witnessing the Horde putting the entire southern continent in ruin and almost managing to do the same with Lordaeron, can you really blame him for not giving them the benefit of the doubt? he acted upon what he knew the Horde to be. he knew of their warlocks and suspected they used Jaina against him, therefore he didn't listen to her either. And the fact that the Horde decided to kill him, instead of showing their ability to show mercy and send him and the surviving men of his army back to Kul'Tiras, only confirmed to him he was right. I wouldn't even say he became evil either. He simple fought and killed the Horde to prevent them to grow strong again to the point they could threaten his people and those of Lordaeron, which is what any good leader would do for his people and allies.
Mr Raptor So you’re saying it’s okay to kill children because of what their parents or grandparents did? Genocide is *always* a black and white issue. It’s never excusable under any circumstances. Also, Daelin refused to surrender and he died in battle. At not point did he give the Horde opportunity to show him mercy, and he didn’t deserve it anyway. Again, he literally butchered children. You’re holding the Horde to higher standards than you’re holding him to. Why show mercy to someone who isn’t showing you or your people any? The Horde’s warriors were obligated to end his life to protect their loved ones. Lastly, Daelin didn’t fight the Horde to try to prevent them from growing strong again. He would have taken prisoners if that were his goal. But he didn’t. He fought to exterminate them. He didn’t fight for his people or his allies, just his own selfish ambitions. He acted out of hatred and bloodlust, nothing more.
@@Ultimaton100 I'm not debating if what he did was right or wrong. It was clearly wrong, but he didn't know better and considering what the Horde did, I don't blame him for not believing the Horde had become better. He viewed the Horde as we viewed the Burning Legion. Something that had to be exterminated to secure our own world. We as players would have killed demon children too, believing them to be born evil. You should try and look at it for Daelin's perspective and you could understand his reasons. It won't justify it, but you'll see the reason behind it. It's a good skill to have, to analyses a situation from different perspectives and not be biased just because you like one side over the other.
Just got to say for the post 3rd war alliance not allowing the undead in, lets have a quick itinerary of events, undead and demons had swarmed the eastern kingdoms and had left deep scars on the people there, then post the war Arthas lead the scourge left in the eastern kingdoms to slaughter all he could find there adding more to the hate for the undead. Then Sylvanas teams up with Garithos who was the de-facto leader of the alliance force Lordaeron only to backstab him and steal the the city. Can you blame the other members of the alliance for not trusting her or just flat hating the undead for the many terrible things they had done up until then
People upset over Greymane breaking Sylvanas's lantern DuRiNg PeAcEtImE really are scraping the barrel. Gilneas and the horde were at peace when she, you know, tried to exterminate their people
Well that is technically incorect, as Garrosh ordered an attack on them. So, he declared a war and Sylvanas carried it out. She broke direct orders during it, but the war was out. And usually, war happens when both sides are at peace, I just feel like I need to point it out
Gilneas was a neutral faction, no allegiance to either side so not only was the attack unprovoked its a class A example of the Horde's tendency to Warmonger recklessly behind the Alliances back
Shaw never orders the alliance operative to kill goblins. The quest “free samples” is to collect ore not to kill goblins and it is infact the goblins that are the aggressors as they attack alliance on sight not allowing them to collect ore in a neutral zone.
....what? You loot the ore from dead bodies AND are all but bluntly told to be violent with this line in the quest text: "Someone who can handle a fight against overwhelming odds and come out alive.". Alliance murdered and looted ore that the Horde mined up. There are no two ways about it.
YourTheManNowDawg Shaw sends you to collect some Azerite but he told you to be ready for a fight cause he knows what the horde is. The goblins are mining the blood of the world soul standing on the corpses of the Cenarion Circle druids that used to live where the blade was plunged into the planet, these are probably not good guys...and sure enough. As soon as you approach, weapon sheathed they goblins immediately attack and try to kill you. Once they’re dead, sure take the azerite, why not? The developers could have made the NPCs neutral and forced alliance players to kill them which would have made Alliance the aggressors but clearly you are sent to collect azerite, not to kill, the goblins force your hand with their hostile actions.
I KNEW THERE WAS A REASON TO WHY THE EDITING FELT SO SIMILAIR! flying buttress I love u and ur god damn videos with so many god damn bad jokes, puns and extra sassy notes! keep up the good work pal yeah yeah I know it aint his channel, but still the man is a beast
At the time of Jaina killing the Blood Elves in Dalaran she wasn't part of the Alliance, she was the leader of Dalaran, and therefore this really isn't the Alliance's doing but actually Jaina's
Well Dalaran without the Scryers is just neutral kirin tor and the Silver covenant, which was a part of the alliance. So I guess partly it was a deed of the Alliance...?
So what I'm getting from the video is that whenever the alliance are actually aggressors they have a tendency of giving new allies to The Horde solidifying alliances to The Horde. To be clear, not every time but at least 3-6 times by my count. 1. Garathos and the Blood elves 2. Garathos and the Forsaken* 3. Attacking the Goblins after capturing Thrall( which could be argued as is doing a good thing because that led to the Goblins being free from slavery so...) 4.the invasion of Pandaria which lead the natives choosing sides(I know story wise the playable ones joined at the Wandering Isle. But, Throughout the campaign in Pandaria there are many instances in which the natives can and will choose to side with or against one or both of the factions) 5. The Dalaran incident and Alaria's visit the sunwell* 6. The battle of Dazar'alor * can be argued about weather or not the Alliance can be held responsible for these events
The Blood Elves joined the Horde because Lorthemar was coerced by Sylvanas, which he was close friends when she was alive, after he had the creeping suspiscion that Kael'Thas abandoned them (which he was absolutely right about) and because the Blood Elves were up to some pretty evil stuff back BC, like desecrating places of worship that Alliance Paladins held dearly (most explicitly in the Blood Charger questline in Stratholme, were they drove one of the last ramaining original Paladins of the Silver Hand to succumb to the Scourge), the remaining High Elves of the Alliance Expedition in Outland witnessing first hand all of Kael'thas messed up experiments in Outland and lastly betraying the remaining Draenei to the Legion and Illidan to drive them out of Tempest Keep, making it very reasonable why the Alliance didn't trust the Blood Elves AT ALL. Seriously, why does everyone keep forgetting how absolutely detestable Blood Elves were?
@@Donnerbalken28 personally I still think Elves and Trolls tend to cause most of the problems on Azeroth(Barring Direct interventions of the Titans, Old gods, the Legion, ect.) Due to messing with thing not ment for mortals (Like the Well of Eternity, Loa, Old God Minions, ect.) And waring against each other. Also a good chunk of people don't realy care to look into the Blood Elves due to being lazy, not reading between the lines, or not Knowing what to look for for the information.
The only unjustified aggressions are assault on Dazaralor and locking talanji up. The ratio of Alliance aggressions is like 49:1 for the horde.. How unexpected
The stormheim is... They're the undead. They should rest in peace already, so destroying then is a morally right thing to do. You're not 'killing' them, they're dead already.
I can vouch for how good the videos are by FlyingButtress. I just watched his most recent on before this video. Great way to learn about the lore of WOW and have a few laughs.
On point one there’s a noticeable difference. One is Troops moving into their own zone; yeah the Kirin tor helped out but it wasn’t using the city in order to break in anywhere. Jaina 100% overreacted but the garrosh loyalists I’d still say abused it
@@OhNoTheFace "monster" - kills dozen blood elfs and imprisons the rest. "Muh Waifuh Slyvanas" - genocides entire nation, destroyed Gilneas, keeps doing shit so evil that it makes dreadlord clap approvingly and yet still loved by her fans. Hmmm...
@@MrVlad12340 She also helped murder her own father to be fair, and directly led to countless alliance members dying by helping horde numerous times. Shes not exactly a good person. Probably done some other shit that slips the mind, I once researched quite a bit on her and shes done a lot of questionable shit, but its been a good few years.
*Dalaran massacre*
Jaina: This city must be purged of Blood Elves
*me as a male human Paladin*
Me: Im sorry Jaina...i cannot watch you do this
Good reference
This brings a smile to my face
Jaina: Damn it, Champion. As the new leader of Kirin Tor, I order you to purge this city of Blood Elves!
*gets a bowl of popcorn* I can, anytime the elves get theres it a good time for me
@@MrTwistedLizard Shame they couldn't give you grammar that doesn't give strokes to people when they read it
It's wild how big tauren are canonically.
"Vol'jin looked UP at baine from his raptor"
Somehow Blizz turned noble Minotaur like people into goofy ass cow people… always hated that to this day.
Alliance isnt bad
Horde isnt bad
Scourge isn't bad
The legion isnt bad
The Old Gods aren't bad
Its blizzard's writing that is bad
@Jojo Bizzare Activision Blizzard™ ACTUALLY
Not necessarily the writing; just its ingame portrayal.
@@aleksandarvil5718 no it's blizzard actually even in tbc and vanilla you can see blizzard's bad writing
The only bad character is Nathanos
Yup, the times of good writing are gone
Blizzard storytelling is garbage most of the times
Jaina: "Glad you could make it, Councillors."
Council of Six: "Watch your tone with us, girl. You may be Kirin Tor's new leader, but we're still your superiors as your elders."
Jaina: "As if I could forget. Listen, Councillors, there's something about blood elves you should know."
Jaina: "Oh no, we're too late. The blood elves have already spread across the city. They may look fine now, but it's only a matter of time before they betray us to the Horde."
Council of Six: "What!?"
Jaina: "The entire blood elves must be purged from this city!"
Council of Six: "How can you even consider that!? There's got to be some other way!"
Jaina: "Damn it, Councillors! As your leader I order you to purge the blood elves!"
Council of Six: "You are not our better yet, girl! Nor would we obey that command even if you were!"
Jaina: "Then I must consider this an act of treason."
Council of Six: "TREASON!? Have you lost your mind, Lady Proudmoore!?"
Jaina: "Have I? Councillors, but my right as the leader of Kirin Tor, I hereby relieve you of your command and suspend your mages from service."
Vereesa: "Jaina, you can't just...!"
Jaina: "It's done! Those of you who have the will to save Dalaran, follow me! The rest of you, get out of my sight!"
Council of Six: "You've just crossed a terrible threshold, Lady Proudmoore."
Jaina: "Vereesa...."
Vereesa: "Alright, Jaina. My Silver Covenant will help you do this."
good one ;)
Jaina: "Wait a second... this seems awfully familiar."
Point you missed with the goblin starting zone: when Thrall was attacked, he was on his way to the Maelstrom on Earthen Ring business, not as a member of the Horde. It's the equivalent of if the Horde used Malfurion's efforts against the Firelands as a good opportunity for an assassination.
who was assassinated?
No those were twilight hammer cultist
@ThatAnimeGuy to be fair Thrall was still technically the official warchief there.
Garrosh was still just a stand in.
@ThatAnimeGuy Garrosh was instructed to lead the Horde until, Thrall returned.
He was first given the full mantle and permanent position.
After, the goblin hero delivers Thrall's message making him the actual warchief.
Thrall was still Warchief when the SI:7 attacked him, but he was on his way with to the Earthern Ring, to save the world from falling into deep holm.
So, indeed Stormwind tried to end the world.
Thrall has been the Warchief of the Horde for years, more than a decade up to that point, and suddenly because he says "Guys I'm with this neutral faction now, promise" everyone is supposed to believe it?
It's like if we caught Sylvanas now and she was like "Yeah, I did all those horrible things but I JUST changed to be the leader of this orphanage, so now I have complete immunity from everything I've ever done, byeeeee"
"The Alliance produced Arthas"
*Distant Ner'zhul laughter*
@Gabeslogic Uther tried to stop Arthas, Muradin tried to stop Arthas, Therenas was killed by Arthas , Ner’Zhul basically “made” Arthas - but somehow its Alliance fault.
Plus, Arthas technically counts as scourge anyway.
And nerzhul pretty much balances him out
During shadowlands we hear that Arthas did not know what he was doing. The jailor controlled him and gave him the ilusion that he would do everything in the name of the good. Nerzuls soul was just a crafting material to make the armor and frostmourne. Maybe he controled also a small part of arthas but the jailor did the biggest part.
@@DioBrando-qi9so ...thats a load of shit!
Well it was more of kel'thuzad
"Now when it comes to things that the horde has done bad, there's a couple of expansions whose sole focus is that"
Ouch. That's... Fair, but really hurts.
There is one, and it was written by a hack. Both were bad in every other one
CamTheKitty cata and mop were both kinda horde bad, at least more than alliance. Although it was more just on garrosh, like in bfa with sylvanas
@@OhNoTheFace Whom'st is this "hack?"
Dangerous Second account to be faaaaair, the Horde was led by Garrosh and Sylvanas and ultimately followed the orders. I few genocides later the Horde only has the blood of a few million people ie Darnassus, Ashenvale, Gilneas, Southshore and Hillsbrad, Pyrewood and Ambermill, the Pandaren who didn’t obey, Theramore etc.
Not only expansions. Warcraft 1 and 2 too ;)
All this alliance and horde squabbling makes me wish Scourge was a valid playable faction.
FOR THE HORDE
@@Azure_clematis14 No, for the Scourge
@@noctusowl haha, FOR THE HORDE STILL
For the scorge !
Arent Scourge and Horde the same thing now?
In Vanilla, the Scarlet Crusade actually even has an emissary in Stormwind Cathedral. Which is kinda funny when you think about it. In reality in Vanilla the Alliance has no reason to be hostile to the Scarlet Crusade.
in desolace there is a quest where the alliance player character impresses a SC emissary enough to be invited to the monastery, problem that your invitation is burned by a Paladin who betrays the SC
In Vanilla, Onyxia was disguised as Lady Prestor and was using her influence to do dark things.
And the scarlet crusade never was a good thing in alliance.
@@arthursalustino Well, the Scarlet Crusade was more a case of, "We know that you do bad stuff, but we will look in the other direction." The Alliance simply had no reason to go after the Crusade, because in the end they kept the Scourge and other undead in check essentially making sure that they were able to fully march southwards against for example Southshore. And at least you CAN negotiate with the Crusade on some level (Marjhan and other crusaders helped with the attack on Naxxramas after all), but most undead are completely mindless.
@@CecilyThanador They were also in the depths of undead controlled land. No real way to help them, even if they wanted to. At that point, the alliance never wanted a fullscale war with the horde, which would have happend in that case.
If you're going to pin Arthas on the Alliance of Lordaeron, then someone could pin Gul'dan on the Horde.....
BrooklynRedLeg or Nerzhul who was the reason Arthas became evil in the first place.
pierre persson Try a little more reason and logic
pierre persson not wrong. Nerzhul was the one who orchestrated his downfall.
@pierre persson Not wrong, Nerzul was the master mind behind most of what happened in Arthas's story.
He personally targeted him as his champion.
that's right, most of the alliance members (for example jaina and uther) absolutely didn't want to follow his purge. only soldiers loyal to arthas went with him into lordaeron. arthas was taught the way of light, pride and justice by the alliance and by his father. the alliance is clearly not a fault for his downfall.
Am I the only one who feels really sad when I hear mentions of Yrel becoming a Light Supremacist? She was friendly and determined all through WoD. It kind of makes me wish they hadn't written that storyline.
DrPluton absolutely man. Makes no sense for her character. Only maybe thst she listens to light obsessively
I think that's just the point, though. Giving oneself too fully to the light surrenders that true more variable self to the lights "one 'true' path".
Would be interesting to see what freeing someone from the Light's grasp would entail, if even possible-- just like how we're beginning to see that void corruption isn't necessarily absolute as it seems as well.
This is WoW. It's in-game lore is basically a set of anime-like confrontations with immediate emotions for players from the both sides. Being coherent is one of the last things it's aimed at.
Well there's a long time between WOD and BFA. Tbh, that was one if the more interesting concepts of this expansion.
Horde still have vulpera
Thats their punishment
They deserve it
Nobody cares, Kakio. Just like nobody cares about Gnomes or Mecha-Gnomes.
Ah, the voice of reason.
@@ErikWarhammer plenty of people care. And plenty more love the memes about it.
Make sense for them to scrap the barrens thing. It might of actually made the war morally grey
Why would that be bad
@@janterri3539 bad for business
@@janterri3539 He never said it would be bad.
Silithus, Stormheim & the Undead emissary incident are all spot-on.
Camp Taurajo was a millitary target during wartime that allowed civillians to escape. That is how you fight wars correctly.
While the Purge of Dalaran was an overreaction, comparing the sunreavers actively assisting in a major War Crime to Dalaran aiding the defense - and only the defense - of a city that stood for peace throughout its entire existence is laughable.
The trees of Ashenvale are sacred to the Night Elves, so it is beyond me why retaliation is even considered in a video like this. You can't harvest the Azeroth Equivalent of a UNESCO world heritage site and be salty when its protectors fight back.
Lehmannation plus stealing lumber from another nation is also a crime. It would be as if UK invaded Norway and started drilling their oil and then get mad when Norway kicked them out.
1. Elves fiddle with arcane magic
2. arcane magic gets the attention of Sargeras and his Burning Legion
3. burning legion attempts invasion and creates arthas
4. arthas creates sylvanas
5. sylvanas burns down a tree
6. ??? profit
I call this Karma
Kevin flynn one big problem here - those elfs who summoned demons are actually now Nightborne and Blood elfs and in the Horde.
@@MrVlad12340 Gold star for accuracy.
T.R. Loney people who blame Tyrande (and night elfs) for Legion invasion never cease to make me facepalm. Literally barking up the wrong tree.
@@MrVlad12340 True (don't forget about nagas tho) and impressive use of "barking the wrong tree" to make it ultimate argument
The editing is absolutely beautiful in this video I love the little squabbling of the pets in the video.
A point you missed though is depending on which side you play on BoD it shows you a different motive for the battle with Rastakhan. Alliance who saw the actual event saw Genn asking Rastakhan to surrender, he refuses and then we have to kill him. your video makes it sound like the alliance's original intent was to kill him. It wasnt. The Horde however gets told a very different conversation, embellished to make it looked like killing him was the original intent. I found this change of context rather creative.
Horde propaganda indeed, the troll chose his fate.
W8 the intent was "to drive a wedge between the zandalari and the horde".And since when did intention matter?The horde intention in the water for thorns was to drive a wedge between the members of the alliance.i mean yes it had something called as utter stupidity and alliance plan had only stupidity.but if that is a justification then isn't the fourth war justified?
badri nath because unlike with War of Thorns Alliance had no intention of genociding Zandalari.
@@MrVlad12340 Neither did the Horde, technically.
The plan was to capture the world tree. (Capture the troll king)
Holding its people hostage and make it harder for the alliance to act. (Taking a Hostage sounds familiar? Talanji)
the events are pretty mirrored with the exceptions of the Horde never making landfall on the world tree and instead destroyed it, with the rulers fleeing.
While the Alliance made Landfall, demanded the King to Surrender and he stood his ground.
I mean if the writers had not been trying to milk BFA with pointless Horde drama, then Sylvanas would already had lost the Horde after burning the Tree.
the War of Thorns was planned as an Honorable war, lead by Saurfang.
To grant her credit.
What was told to Rastakan doesn't matter in the slightest. He was raided in his home, his fleet decimated and his people killed. He would defend himself no matter what. If the Alliance intention was just to cripple the Horde and Zandalari by destroying the fleet... they didn't have to raid the city at all. They could have just pushed the button to explode all the ships (which they did)... and then just sailed off. Done. No need to remove the leader. Maybe he would join the Horde, maybe he wouldn't. He didn't have the fleet at that point, so it didn't really matter. For the Alliance, it made little difference if it was Rastakan personally or his daughter Talanji leading the Zandalari. It never really held any strategic significance to the Alliance in terms of preventing the war.
something else about the purge... Jaina was a member of the Council of Six.... yes she was given a certain degree of authority to run Dalaran, but not to the degree that she acted in the purge where she could act as judge/jury/executioner and altering the face of Dalaran without the other council members' say.
"The night elves didn't want the orcs chopping trees"
I literally don't see what's wrong with this at all, it's their territory, their "sacred" forests. What are they supposed to do, tell them not to?
"Please, could you not destroy a land that doesn't belong to you?"
@Valithor Those are too many words for "Let's drink demom blood and kill everything... Twice"
Valithor they CHOSE the shitty desert to live in. They could have relocated to more fertile lands like Mulgore or even to Ungoro Crater which is choke full of plants and has no sentient life. Also, they signed up a treaty that gave them Azshara in exchange for no longer going into Ashenvale. Which they broke btw.
@Valithor they never asked to borrow lumber or land. Even after treaties were established, The Orcs just keep taking without acknowledgment. Even though they were Invaders and slaves, the orcs rarely learn.
There's only one way to deal with invaders who dont respect your way of life.
@@AdmiralButtercrust94 To be SORTA fair, they have the whole "destroy nature" thing basically coded into them. They descended from a long line of Breakers that starts with Grond, a massive elemental giant created by titan Aggramar to combat the Evergrowth, a hivemind of all the plantlife on Draenor. The orcs are descendants of a construct that was DESIGNED to destroy nature. So like many of Azeroth's problems, it comes down to titans' surprising incompetence.
Anduin playing fetch with Greymaine 🤣🤣🤣
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who thought Greymain looked like a pet. :D
Greymane*
I laughed lol
I was literally going to sign in just to make that comment it was hilarious
greymane*
I'm surprised Varian's mission to assassinate Moira Bronzebeard wasn't listed. Sure it didn't result in Moira's death, but that was still a very "awkward" thing where Stormwind was deciding how other nations should handle their shit... SI:7 hit squad to handle Ironforge politics (without being requested I might add).
Can’t believe I actually laughed at “your mom likes goblin nobs” 😂😂
I lost it
I was looking for someone else who laughed at this XD
Light give me the strength not to read the comments.
Eww religious people
Shadow give you weakness to read them anyway.
You knpw the alliance dont have sylvanas loyalist-like fanatics right? Wont find much.
@@cimex7492
Garithos did nothing wrong jokes 😉
@@cimex7492 people who take a Horde logo tattoo as a personal attack?
Ehhhh, in the Night Elves' defence, it wasn't just a couple of trees. It was like, a whole lot of their "Sacred Grove".
In wich they simply replied by slaughterin the orcs without telling them what they even did wrong they came crashing along with a fucking demigod to wipe them out. If Tyrande didn´t have her starwberry weeks 24/7 all year round she would have at least said "hey dudes thats holy ground you are on if you want some trees i got some druids that can help you grow them fast but you got to stay out of here" but nope Demigod nuke it is just for some people trying to get wood to have a roof above their head
It's the equivalent of humans actually being able to successfully blow up the Eywa tree in Avatar.
Flying buttress is good, rely enjoy his work
I want to say I found Flying Buttress through Hiru some time ago, and I'm so happy I did.
Buttress kicks ass!
''It's not bad when we do it'' Sounds like a famous country known for its double standards.
Which one do you mean?
USA, Russia, Israel, UK, numerous sub-saharan counties, India, China, numerous Arab countries, Pakistan, Japan... etc.?
Everyone has the attitude that they are right at the end, and can pretend to do the right thing.
Although aome are more honest about their true motives than others.
@@BaltisLV Exactly.
Every country is like that...
@@LS-wy4bk Maybe, but some get more hate than others. Especially if they lose the war. You know - the winners write the history and stuff.
@@Foxtrot-jr5qu And the sins of the winner get passed to the loosing side...
Lot of people talking about alliance "killing" Vulpera during the Vol'dun assault. I'm wondering if people actually do them because you don't kill them at all, you scare them off with a special totem. The person who gives you the quest even says "The Vulpera are not our enemy, but we cannot allow them to transport supplies for the Horde." And that's all we burn is Horde supplies, not their homes or them.
Because if made kinda an uproar on the PTR at the time. Thats still in the heads of people to "blame" the alliance for bad or cruel actions against...ehm..horde? or..people
The vulpera weren't with the horde at the time. Same with zandalari. They killed people who had nothing to do with the conflict simply for trading with the horde.
zain gelous Zandalari gave Horde their soldiers before battle fr Dazar Alor and attacked Kul’Tiras.
They don't have homes.Those "supplies" you burnt was all they ever had.ever.the Vulpera are nomads but let me point out that there was some reference to the gilneans having done something to them
@@MrVlad12340 that was horde.dont remember Zandalari there fairly..........Only orcs that jaina one shoted.and it was rexxar who led the attacks with Lillian...
Where is the 4 hour-long horde aggression video?
@Dean Robin I would like to see it as well and I am playing on both sides and consider the Faction war dumb at this stage (depose Sylvanas now and finally give us the option to form guilds accross the faction line and play and raid together!)...I have no problem with most Horde races, except one: The Orcs! Who are dishonorable alien conquerors who should IMHO go back to Outland (Nagrand is habitable!) or even the new alternate Draenor!) :)
the horde isnt aggressive. we just have dumbasses and sylvanas
Maluthor and Garrosh. And Gul’dan. And Nerzhul. And those morons that kept attacking night elfs back in Vanilla. And every second forsaken... list goes on.
@@MrVlad12340 garrosh did nothing wrong. not all forsaken are completely bad. but yeah fuck gul'dan and nerzhul
@@_Malvar as i said "every second" forsaken. And Garrosh did a lot of things wrong, he just pretended he had no choice.
*All examples of Alliance Aggression!* 16 Minute Video
*All examples of Horde Aggresstion!* TH-cam: We're sorry, you've exceeded the maximum video length for this platform.
in Azsuna you find a note that has info on what Sylvanas is doing in stormheim, which you deliver to a worgen in dalaran who brings it to genn
The moral is: Gnomes are sweet angels that haven't done anything wrong.
Yeah, just tried to summon Jaraxxus
Asked to kill innocent animals in Borean Tundra for no real reason than fun
Also let's not get started with Gnomeregan.
sure if their continued generation of Superfund sites is "Nothing wrong" in your mind
And I mean, Mechagon was a thing like.. yesterday. Sooo.... nope.
So, I was watching this guy do 10 hours of island expeditions (he is horde) because I haven't played horde side and I wanted to see how our island nps talked etc.., one of the gnomes was like "If you don't succeed I'll shoot you myself!" or something like that. Savage. Gnomes are savage. Haha
Themes of the alliance: Honor, Courage, And so much racism that uncle ruckus would be proud
Fulgrim where? Name me an instance of Alliance racism outside of Garithos i dare you.
VladTutushkin literally held orcs as slaves and in camps, treated them like animals. Even if some orcs attacked the alliance that was still messed up. Ever heard thrall’s life story?
@@knogne5073 It was either that or wipe them out completely calmer heads (Proudmoore) prevailed. Say what you want about the camps but the way I see it until proven to be civil keeping them under close watch was the smartest decision, Enemies close and all that
K Nogne and as others mentioned alternative was to kill them all. And just so you know - those humans who came up with camps idea - lordaeronians are now in the Horde as forsaken. And high elfs wanted to just kill all orcs and now they also in the horde as blood elfs so go and bitch as them , not at people of stormwind who actually had no say in that issue.
@@knogne5073 still the Alliance of Lordaeron, which is defunct. Majority of those people died during the Scourge plague.
When you assume that Sylvanas is up to some shady stuff, you're never gonna be wrong.
I actually like the goblins, they fit good intro the horde.
Yeah they took role of ogres, as constructors of battle ships and war vehicles. Also they are perfect counterpart of gnomes with all this technology stuff!
Cmon Hiru, I have time. Let’s see the horde version.
Your hubris will be your downfall
@@evan-bunch-of-numbers aye zealot fanatics thinking they actually good ppl. Its quite hilarious.
We would be here all day.
Max same I also have a lot of time
They've done nothing wrong.
12:23 hey, we can call each other zombie, but when the living say it's kinda... y'know. Just stay away from the Z word
Seems like you missed something. The whole... Locking Talanji up. Though it's never explained why Anduin, the diplomat, even does that.
Because she was with the prophet, who by that point had led the Zandalri trolls in multiple incursions and uprisings across the planet, making him at least an enemy of the Alliance.
Cegesh no, Alliance pretty much knew Zul very well, it is mentioned a few times.
My guess is they locked her up as she was with Zul at the time. He DID resurrect the Thunder King after all.
Because Anduin is not in charge of the Alliance, or even his own kingdom; Shaw and Greymane are.
@Punkrawk yeah, thats why he hamfisted everybody into a shameful peace treaty, because he is “not in charge”, right.
There is also the spies and saboteurs that the Alliance send into the blood elf territory before they joined the horde :D
Meh
I love that dwarven spy and the night elves with the quest drop. It's my favourite part of the entire starting experience!
That was such nonsense, why are there night elves skulking around eversong?
There was no pre existing rivalry there, my guess is it was just game designers making quests and wanted horde elves to fight alliance elves.
@@Maniaman213 Except their hate for the highborne and massive distrust in them
@@NetherCrafterSMC It was 10.000 years ago and the night elves let the blood elves go their own way.
When Malfurion and Tyrande meet the blood elves 10.000 years later theres no tension or hate towards the blood elves, they help each other.
are you just going to leave out the fact that Sylvanas killed Genn's son? attacked and blighted the whole city of Gilneas? I don't think Genn needed additional provocation to seek her demise.
Sylvanas never blighted Gilneas, and evening if she had, none of what you claimed justifies Greymane’s attempts to conduct a complete genocide of the Forsaken. He also violated the peace treaty when he attacked the Horde fleet in Stormheim without any provocation or cause to do so.
@Bleeding Eye Watcher you missed the part where she used the plague despite Garroshe’s orders which led to Gilneas becoming uninhabitable for a long time? We dont even know how inhabitable it is now. And no, breaking the lamp is not a genocide. Forsaken are not even a race - they are afflicted members of human and some other races. Its like saying that lepergnomes are a race and not just irradiated and insane gnomes.
@teslagod2003 are you simple? Horde attacked Alliance during WoD on Ashran, initiating the PvP stuff there lorewise. Alliance didnt used that as a justification for a full blown war. Plus Gilneas was neutral back then and fell under a massive attack that was completely unprovoked. Comparing that to a battle between Genn and Sylvanas which btw revealed that banshee was again up to no good is laughable and does not justify anything horde did. Alliance was never bigoted or racist or warmongering. If anything they act like too much forgiving SJWs and keep appeasing the horde , at least thats what high king always does.
One argument I'd like to make about Jaina's rampage: It was not condoned by the Alliance. Even Varian scolded her for doing so. So I would not call it an Alliance war crime, just a war crime done by Jaina, whom acted alone.
Remember when
hirumaredx made a video about how Sylvanas is a good warchief for the Horde? lol
"no reason"... they were literally at war.
Still an extremely soft target to rape and pillage
CamTheKitty Alliance didnt raped anybody in Dazar’Alor.
@JORGE ALBERTO NUNEZ FIERRO Garona I think is mentioned to be a child of an unwilling Dranaei and an Orc... so more orcs being evil
The term ‘rape and pillage’ actually has nothing to do with rape how we think of the word today. Rape used to just mean take/snatch/steal.
@@mathews1451 lmao
Definitely looking forward to the triple length Horde Equivalent.
Make it quadruple length.
You forgot that the blood elves actually helped destroy theramore pre purge. That's the real reason jaina kicked them out of dalaran
Clayton Hansen she even forgave them for that. She couldnt take it anymore when they smuggled ANOTHER WMD to Garrosh.
Well, the Horde only invaded Azeroth and slaughtered some humans and killed her brother and father. And despite all that, she still saved Garrosh's father Grom and most importantly giving Grom a chance to free the entire Orc race from Mannaroth's demon corruption, she only got her entire city nuked by the very Orcs she helped to save who then celebrated in Orgrimmar after. No biggy!
And then she told that next horde will nuke Teldrassil and people laughed at her. And then horde nuked Teldrassil and celebrated in Orgrimmar again. But horde is innocent! Its just whole races keep falling on those genocides horde leaves lying around!
But camp taurajo, the horde needs retribution for the 5 tents the alliance burned !!!
Now hold on, jaina killed her own father, she actively helped in doing that. So i refuse to accept that as a valid excuse.
@@damackabet.4611 Exactly, she sacrificed her own father because she thought it was the right thing to do. Because she trusted the Horde and wanted to let them have a home. Then she got repaid with a nuke.
Thanks!
11:55
You forgot to mention that she killed the Alliance forces that help her take the capital city. I think that would have been a pretty big deal to not trust the Forsaken by the Alliance at the time.
5:56
There is a quest in Aszuna called "Fate of the Queen's Reprisal" that if done by the Alliance gives intel about Sylvannas motivations in that zone. So it wouldnt have been a blind attack by Genn as if he could have had knowledge that Sylvannas wasn´t going to the Broken Islands to aid the war effort against the Legion. Though is hard to tell since, as I recall, there is no canon order by a lore stranpoint in which the zones have to be done.
Sylvanas came to Stormheim for its sandy beaches.
that jaina thing kinda reminds me of what arthas did...
>alliance produced Arthas
good one Hiru, and horde produced Nerzhul and Gul'Dan
Vorgsen and if not for Nerzhul Arthas wouldnt have become a Lich King.
Gul'Dan produced the Horde*
ni rak-bel Gul’Dan led the Horde, more like.
I can't wait for the horde version of this. Two or three 1 hour long videos should cover most of it.
That's just an entire Horde history lol.
Alliance Bad - (All events of Alliance Aggression in WoW Lore) - 16m video
Horde Bad - (All events of Horde Aggression in WoW Lore) - 16h video
Horde Bad - (A brief summary of the Horde Aggression in WoW Lore)
**15 hour long video**
I don't think so, to be honest. Many people, for some reason, put the bad things Gul'dan's Horde did to the Thrall's Horde.... He probably should've made a different name lol.
i really would like to watch a video from him about this topic, if he didnt make it before (but i think he didnt). in my opinion, there's "good" and "bad" in both of them so i'm really curious
Jin the banana from the left and he puts Arthas on the Alliance. And Garithos. So its only fair we put Guldan and Nerzhul on the Horde.
Kata Regőczi that would be laughably one sided though, Alliance are 90% good and Horde 90% bad.
@@JustAChinesePleb Because they followed him, Saurfang was the one who quite literally wiped out entire population of Stormwind. Half of the people who have been part of first horde is still in Horde. Horde has pages and pages of warcrimes both before and after the first horde.
Oh wow I don’t usually like new editors but this video was so great! Actually gonna check him out
true, but on a scale from goodie to badie we all know which faction is closer to each side
Fun thing to consider... we're viewing this from a modernistic, "western" universalist point, that exists for like 60ish years.
As well as the fact that we're looking from a human point, not orc or elf one.
In reality all races/factions will have a drastically different views on what's right or not.
Just think about the lifespans and therefore different reproductive strategies.
Think about intelligence, faith, relation to elements, nature etc.
v o i d none of which matter as admitted by devs since they write it from “humans perspective”.
@@BaltisLV well, yes the story is in fact written by humans, for humans of the 21st century
it'd be pretty stupid to consider it from a savage troll tribes perspective as we are, in fact, not trolls. same goes from the draenei or any race
i get what you're trying to say but it should be self evident
@@joshlyman7059 It is evident that the story is this way in current Warcraft. However there's absolutely nothing stupid about considering it from a more detailed, or dare I say, interesting perspective.
It has been done in fantasy before, just takes alot more writing. Even modern fantasy like Warhammer or 40k tries doing so (quite decently I'd say).
I'm not saying Warcraft completely lacks it, but it could be improved a bit more.
@@BaltisLV zes u can try but any writing and any reasoning about it would still be done by a human who lives in a human society, we cans study other cultures but we cant not see it through our lens
which was my point, WoW is both written, made and played by humans
Yo, what's the addon that makes quest dialogue look like cutscenes?
i wanted to know too
It should be called Storyline
“Catch the wind” or something like that.
Oh, or that, mb
"Immersion" or something I think?
Never forget the purge of Dalaran
Alliance bad, 16 minutes, Horde bad, TH-cam can't host a video that long.
You do realise that the horde have a quest were we must save pandaren that don't want to be part of the war because the alliance force them to build a military base and they also make child work AND they don't even gave them anything to drink. the alliance even have quest were they torture people ! the horde as done some mistakes under the influence of some bad people but at least most of them get punished for it and at least half of the worst "accidents" are made because the alliance have made some horrible things. People of the alliance show themselves as model of purity but in truth they do atrocity worse than the horde but never admit it.
@@nigoulenoblehiboux9812 For a bunch of honorable individuals I sure saw a lot of civillians impaled to walls with pitchforks in Stormsong Valley :l My list goes on here also >_
@Ghostcat , That would be too long. Just play through BfA instead
Meh. Horde = Alliance but in red. They're the same
logan Alliance didnt genocided Horde.
13:00 Correction: Sylvanas also just murdered any Forsaken who tried to meet with their Human families in that book.
Also, I still reject book and comic lore in the game, because they conflict constantly.
Also lets not ignore that in the book there was no goblin miners assassination unlike in the game.
"i see now why your two factions can't stop fighting!!! every reprisal is itself an act of aggression!! and every act of aggression triggers an immediate reprisal!!!" - taran tszu
Ok waiting a 1 hour horde aggression video
lolosh99 3 hours.
1? My my, aren't you conservative with that number 😂
To clarify some things, Jaina acted on her own and Varyan told her off for it during the purge of Dalaran and they did turn a blind eye to Garrosh's actions and then lied to Jaina's face. And Camp Taurajo was an act of war during war times, a war that the horde started without provocation with the invasion of Ashenvale and the events that unfolded at Theramore. The Alliance also tried to minimize casualties and actually arrested and killed those who took it too far and disobeyed orders. As mentioned in the video, Baine himself doesn't even hold it over the alliance. Then there's Genn's attack on the forsaken which was hardly unjustified, like, are we really gonna forget the events of Cataclysm? He had two reasons. Firstly, vengeance for the horrific and yet again, unprovoked genocidal invasion of Gilneas where they used chemical weapons to destroy his kingdom and killed his son. Secondly, the alliance at this point believed that the horde had betrayed them causing Varyan's death.
What we're left with is the attack on the goblins and the dwarves attacking the tauren for not letting them excavate their ancestral lands. These two events while certainly bad, take place on a pretty small scale. And to be honest, anything the alliance did in the fourth war was 110% justified after Teldrassil and all the other shit Sylvanas pulled. Teldrassil was one of the most horrific events in the Warcraft story and Blizzard themselves have on numerous occasions literally referred to it as genocide. It was far worse than Theramore and the purge of Dalaran. It rivals the draenei genocide on Draenor. It was real bad.
Buhu, alluance are good rest bad. You cant compare kill... Plz shut up. Bouth side have crap on the shoes. Like countrys in real world. No way justify it.
Bakuryu Kenji you really going for that one? Can you compare a theft with murder? Which is worse? Murder. Horde basically commits mass murder while worst thing Alliance did was groceries theft.
To clarify your clarification
She imprisoned/exterminated entire population due to actions of a fraction of them. Random people and civilians that had nothing to do with it.
Taurajo was an actio during wartime - that lead to death of civillians. Alliance did not killed them - they just forced them to walk into a death trap.
Justification has nothing to do with it. Alliance and Horde were in a pact of nonagression and working together against LEgion at the time. Genn decided himself to break this treaty off, attack and risked the entire operation to extract Titan Artifact, risking the failure of the only plan Azeroth had against Legion. He risked, quite literally, everyone's lives for his vengence. Belief about Varian death is not a factor - peace treaty is a peace treaty, they broke it.
But if we accept your logic - then Forsaken attack on Gilneas was justified. A long awaited revenge of not Forsaken - but people of Loarderon that Gilneas left to the mercy of the scourge years ago,
And yes, without a doubt, Teldrassil was a tragedy of, as far as my lore knowledge tells me, unprecedented scale. But just because someone commited grand crime we cannot just ignore existance of a smaller one. To use a comparison - just because Hitler and the Nazis commited horrific atrocities, that does not mean Stalin or Mao were not monsters.
Now do a horde version....and see how long that video will be 🤨
No need. Simply saying Horde is enough. The very definition of their faction is all we need.
3 fourth of the crap that WOW is.want to see the horde play war 3 cause that's the only depiction of the true horde.
Funnily enough Horde did more harm to others than Burning Legion or Old Gods ever did.
Didnt the Alliance also force neutral pandaren citizens to help them build an airbase? I remember a quest as the Horde about that
@Goku Black didnt “forced”. They signed up a contract to work for the Alliance in exchange for supplies but then Alliance found out that pandaren have no working ethics whatsoever and constantly take naps at work, leave when they feel like it and dont understand what “quick work” is. Basically that plus Sha stoking paranoia in the commander led to her ordering pandaren to be forced to comply to the work quotas. Meanwhile horde just enslaved local pandaren, but as “motivation” used their kids who were held hostage.
@@MrVlad12340 Basically they should have left the panda's alone.
The questlines in the Jade Forest are kind of a wash, because both factions have very similar storylines just at different points (North for Horde, South for Alliance) of the zone and allying with a different race. Both leaders (Nazgrim and I think Rell Nightwind) have a failure in battle, get half-possessed by Sha, get purified by Taran Zhu, free some native Pandaren who were strong armed into helping the opposing faction build a base, defeat an enemy leader who was fully taken over by the Sha, recruit the monkeys/fish, then head towards the battle of the Serpent's Heart. So bringing up any of this doesn't help or hurt the 'Alliance bad' narrative of the video.
alot of those aggressiv actions made *for me personaly* no sense, like attacking Thrall during Cata or killing the forsaken emessarys.
killing the Forsaken emissaries actually makes sense. It's sad and was a decision motivated purely by blind fear and hate but it did make sense. Keep in mind Lordaeron, one of the greatest human Kingdoms, had just gotten obliterated by the undead in what could basically be described as an apocalypse. This would have freaked out everyone left in the alliance and undead were already seen evil creatures *prior* to the scourge. Couple that with the fact that one of the big tools used by the Scourge to weaken Lordaeron was a plague that created undead and it honestly makes perfect sense why they panicked and killed every Forsaken who showed up. "OH GOD IT'S AN UNDEAD HERE TO SPREAD PLAGUE!!! KILL IT!!!". So entirely understandable.
Scarlet Crusade should be an offshoot of Alliance criminals (which they are) following their bigotry to the conclusion. On the same note the Horde had its own sect of fanatic infiltrators trying to subvert what the Horde stood for, the Burning Blade. Vanilla would've been much more interesting if he stories wound around the Horde throwing the Crusade in the Alliance's face at the same time as the Alliance threw the Burning Blade in the Horde's face. That would make the thin peace Thrall and Jaina cooked at the end of Warcraft III crumble organically. Instead, what we got is the Burning Blade stories never really paying off, and the Alliance never really being forced to confront what the Crusaders did in the Plaguelands.
@@moscanaveia because Scarletts were never under Alliance jurisdiction. They are not even Stormwind citizens.
@@MrVlad12340 The Scarlet Crusade was formed from the remnants of the Knights of the Silver Hand and gathered citizens from all member states of the old Alliance of Lordaeron. Yes, that includes citizens of Stormwind. The Alliance itself did not directly associate itself with the Crusade, but theye were not openly hostile either. In fact, quite the opposite. The Catheddral of Light in Stormwind held a Crusade ambassador, Brother Crowley, who directed adventurers to do the Crusade's work on Desolace. So Stormwind tolerated the Crusade until it was revealed they wewre under the influence of the Dreadlords. But they were corrupt before that - since the death of the Ashbringer, they have been sliding down the ramp of zealotry and bigotry, and that's why the Argent Dawn left their ranks. But the Alliance was still supportive of the Crusade, and only didn't associate further with them because they had little presence in northern Lordaeron, where the Horde was stronger.
@@moscanaveia not true. Alliance stopped associating with them after Hero goes to Desolace and then to Lordaeron and finds out about Scralett zealotry, Dreadlord infiltration was only found out later.
How many Alliance characters were raid or expansion bosses... consider.
ILIDAN
ARTHAS
JAINA
MECHATORKE
CENARIUS
CORDANA
and next we will see tyrande or malfurion, cuz tyrande wants war just by revenge.. and we dont want to kill all nigth elves.. only the ones who want war
Yes, ur actually right, Siege of Stormwind coming up with Jaina locked up in her Ivory tower screaming pestilence and murder.
@@horsthooden4600 only for garrosh who almost kill all chieft in the horde.. we are the bad guys.. yeah that makes sense.. like knowing that iv7 KNOW the true about the death of varian.. and nobody told that to anduin.. thank god i use all the clases..
@@horsthooden4600 Did you finish the war campaign for the 4th war? its over.
Ilidan was never part of the alliance.
Arthas did stratholm as his worst act, when he became the lich king he was mind controlled by nerzul (an orc)
Jaina and merchtorks fights were instigated by the burning of teledrassil soooo count that one if you like? I wouldn’t
Cenarius I am not sure if he’s ever done anything directly for the alliance, he trained malferon like 2000+ years before it was made and his fight was him being maddened by the emerald nightmare
Cordana was a straight up betrayal full credit
Siege of origimarr I feel is a weak answer to horde bosses because that was during a civil war. I will also say.
I love the way you structured and edited this video. Would like 2 see more videos like this one.
Do the Horde? Maybe each race's independent cultures on the opinions of the others crossing the AvH barrier.
Check out flying buttress then. He did the editing and is awesome at his job
I mean how can you even do Horde one? That would take hours, Horde has simply way too many of these acts where for alliance you have to spesifically look for them and even Twist the situation a little.
Little more context on #1. The bell wasn't even moved through the city, they just used Dalaran's teleportation network. I seem to recall the Alliance doing exactly the same thing to get the bell into Darnassus, but I could be wrong.
Mostly its just Jaina pissed that she was betrayed (again..) by bloodelfs and therefor horde. And it was not that long after Theramore which broke her at the time. She only started to heal in BFA and is now trying AGAIN to bond with the horde. ...When do you think horde will betray alliance (and jaina) again?^^
@@Fion355 There was no "again", it was literally the fall out from Theramore. Probably the first thing she did as leader of the Kirin Tor, which lorewise should have never been a thing. If you watched the video it should be obvious that while the Horde is absolutely brutal in war it's the Alliance that keeps breaking their treaties. At least Horde leaders face consequences for their actions.
originalShorai she gave Sunreavers a pass after their initial betrayal that led to destruction of Theramore. And Horde broke its treaty when Garrosh attacked night elfs while if we will talk about later conflicts Horde broke their treaty again when they initiated conflict at Ashran in WoD which was a full scale military conflict. So “Genn is at fault” is bullshit, Horde spat on any treaties they had back in WoD pre-Legion.
@@MrVlad12340 Ok, so that made NO sense. The Sunreavers were never AT FAULT for those two events. A small group of conspirators were. Just like the small group that did the exact same thing for the Alliance. So saying that "she forgave them" is an excuse, not a fact.
A fact is that lorewise she should have never been made leader of the Kirin Tor on Rhonin's last wishes alone because they have a ruling council of Archmage's and she only post MoP has demonstrated that level of ability.
Another fact is that the random citizens and shopkeepers cut down in her xenophobic outrage definitely had nothing to do with either event.
As to Garrosh attacking Night Elves, and yadda-yadda, there was no treaty for him to break. Until the end of MoP when Garrosh was on the floor in chains there wasn't really even a ceasefire between the Horde and Alliance.
As for Ashran, there is a reason the Alliance never brings that up. Mainly because yet again, just like with the Divine Bell, they sought out a Weapon of Mass Destruction to use against the Horde despite their new treaty so the Horde had to take a defensive action. Varian knew that they had overstepped what should be acceptable by treaty, and that he'd do the same, never brought it up as a violation. The fact that it was also mostly a battle between The Explorers League and The Reliquary, not Alliance vs Horde, also plays into it.
originalShorai most of what you said is bullcrap. Alliance dosent bring it up because if they did then Blizz “ingenious plot” for Slutvanas would look even more retarded. And as we learn later far more then a few Sunreavers were in on what was going on but remained silent which kinda damns them all. Also, Jaina had to act because of Garrosh, otherwise she would have lost Theramore anyway, just to more conventional army takeover. What i am saying is that most of the crap that is happening in the world would have being avoided if Horde ceased their “ur so biggut and hypucretic” shit and learned to live as civilized, normal beings and not a bunch of warmongering maniacs jerking off to genocide.
Horde guy: Seriously though, why are we on separate sides? Far as I can tell, we’re just the same as you guys, but different appearances. And the only reason that we set up the Horde, is because the Alliance did bad stuff to some random group of people in the past. And the only reason they have the Alliance is because we did some bad stuff to some other random race or nationality in the past.
Alliance guy: Yeah, that's because they were fighting eachother. They kinda still are.
Horde guy: No no, but I mean, even if we were to pull out today, and they were to come take the Horde, they would have a BUNCH of races that hate them because of what they did in the past. Whoop de fucking do!
And most popular horde excuse "but muh Taurajo"
Orcs are pure souls man, they didn't do ANYTHING wrong, it was the demon blood. Now ignore the expansion where we see an alternate Horde that never had the blood and still does the same shit.
Xathian or the expansions where Horde followed Garrosh... and then followed Sylvanas into the same exact fucken war for the same reason and didnt even questioned what they were doing till the very end.
Ignore the fact that the alliance went out of their way to prevent civilian casualties during the sack of Taurajo. and during that same expansion the horde razed southshore to the ground (killing or enslaving every alliance individual they could find, regardless of if they were civilians) and they sacked Silverwind refuge, Also intentionally killing civilians. Yet once again, the horde tries taking the moral high ground and saying we're the bad guys.
That thing was a huge fail on the Alliance side. We thought that we were being all nice, sparing the citizens, but instead we accidentally sent them into Quillboar territory where they all died.
Doesn't matter, horde hates us for sparing their citizens anyway
>Furry attacks Horde
>Zombie Hag commits mass genocide and burns down a tree because she wants to kill as many people as possible
>The Alliance is to blame (?)
This is just another reminder that Elves ruin everything.
i wish the alliance was as bad as the horde and actually destroyed cities and genocided the horde in mass. oh well.
we still to do a lot of catch up before being as bad as them.
“We”
I think it will kind of come with Tyrande and her Night warrior thing.
Nogard which she does in retaliation for a genocide of her people. You know, a single most drastic reason.
@@MrVlad12340
I did not meant battle for darkshore.
I meant that she MAY start to just butcher all horde she sees.
Nogard and how that will be worse then what Horde already did? If you want to persecute her for that, then you should prosecute Horde too.
1. Totally agree, I felt awful doing that questline. HOWEVER, Kirin Tor was officially neutral at that point, Jaina officially joins Alliance afterwards. That being said, the Silver Covenant takes part in and they are Alliance, so gonna give you a point. (Protecting a city and stealing a weapon of mass destruction isn't the same thing, though.)
2. Was gonna point out what Baine had said, but you already pointed it out^^
3. Pretty sure truce went out the window when the Horde abandoned Alliance at the Broken Shore. Also Genn attacked Sylvanas while she was attempting to enslave val'kyr (Second War red dragons flashbacks, anybody?), I think you meant that the admiral attacked Sylvanas' fleet? But again, fair enough. Regarding Sylvanas' comment about how Genn and that admiral wasn't punished, I assume it was largely due to the fact that they stopped Sylvanas from clearly evil actions by the end of Stormheim storyline (and since somebody once argued with me that they should have been immediately recalled to explain themselves, one, they were practically stranded at first, and two, Anduin cannot just up and recall a leader of nation, especially since almost all of the forces there are said leader's people! If he'd do that, all of the Gilneans would follow their king back to Stormwind, and Alliance would have to move some other forces into Stormheim).
4. Everytime I see somebody telling how Zandalar wasn't allied with the Horde, I log onto my Horde alt and watch the Horde army assembled in their harbor.
5. Pretty sure novel's lore is more important in the long run than quest's lore, and in the novel there's no mention of goblin's being attacked.
6. THAT WHOLE QUESTLINE MAKES NO SENSE LOREWISE! Lets start with Alliance SOMEHOW capturing the Motherf***ing Thrall (I think there was allusion at the end of some traitor among the Kor'kron but if it were then it didn't go anywhere), then Worgen being a high ranking member of SI:7 already despite how they don't joining Alliance until AFTER Wolfheart novel, which takes place weeks if not months after Cataclysm started, oh, and icing on the cake, the whole ordeal not being brought up even ONCE in any novel or even quest (actually, correction, in Twilight of the Aspects Thrall mentions how he had been captured, but doesn't mention Alliance involvement), while in contrast Gilneas being attacked by the Horde gets brought up practically every novel and expansion (seriously, I think only in WoD it wasn't mentioned). I generously think that Blizzard wanted to make both of the new races feel more like part of their faction from the start, and what better way than having them face off against their enemies, but in case of goblin's questline they should have done better job making sure it makes sense, and considering how it wasn't brought up at all anywhere else I think they too had realized that and try to pretend that it didn't happen.
(also, since both previous points are about goblins, just gonna point out that I THINK they number of goblins who aren't evil/assholes/jerks in lore can be counted on ONE hand ;p)
8. Alliance allied with Forsaken against Balnazzar, and in return their commander got killed and EATEN, while his forces were either chased out or killed (we know of at least one survivor in novel Cycle of Hatred). Strange how they considered them monsters afterwards. (Same with Nathanos' comments about Alliance, you can't say that they hunt you down like dogs if you yourself slaughtered an outpost of former allies to get a hold of some f***ing documents!) I will admit though that they should have listened to the emissaries at least, though, considering that they DID listen to death knights', and I will have Arthas chew out Varian for that in my fanfiction when I get to it (www.fimfiction.net/story/55373/rebirth-of-the-damned). Also it's possible that Onyxia had played a hand in that, but that's just speculation.
- Agree, internment camps were bad. Alliance should have just slaughtered the orcs (:sarcastic:), and that way it wouldn't have broken up due to taxes that their upkeep costed, and the common people, unhappy with those taxes, wouldn't turn to the Cult of the Damned for promise of unity and immortality. Interment Camps led to rise of the Scourge! (semi-sarcastic ;p)
- The night elves OUTLAWED the use of magic, under the penalty of death. The Highborne ignored them, and 4k years after War of the Ancients caused a storm of magic that threatened Ashenvale Forest. The night elves could have KILLED them all, but instead showed mercy and exiled them. That decision led to high elves invading troll lands, teaching humans magic, founding Dalaran and later Council of Tirisfal, which eventually led to birth of Medivh, his corruption by Sargeras, opening Dark Portal and all 4 Wars, so again, showing mercy screwed people over. As for the orcs, they attacked them when they realize that they were chopping down an unreasonable amount of trees (and they reeked of demons or something).
- Not defending Yrel, but just recalled what Mag'har and some Horde players say about the draenei afterwards. So just gonna point out that they at LEAST gave orcs the choice to convert. When in original timeline the orcs began starting shit, they didn't give draenei choice, they just started slaughtering them and then paved a massive road out of their bones.
And the Horde clearly attacked brennedam before Kul`tiras rejoined the Horde so the whole the Zandalari point is useless
@@gilpima6599 um, which part?
For the last part. It's isn't really a choice if the option is join us or die. Blizzard take on the light is clear, follow them blindly like the void and you'r as evil. Just look at their Na'aru.
And the orc back at that time were manipulated by Kil'jaeden. Yes, a draenei, working for the legion as on of its leader. I mean aren't the elves responsibles for the legion to discover Azeroth in the first place ?
Onyxia couldn't have had that much of influence on dwarf, her hold was on human. And if she's an excuse for early wow shitty behaviour for Alliance, i don't see why gul'dan and other legion's follower aren't one for the horde.
And the human which Silvannas killed were top tier trash. They said they would have no remorse exploiting her force, but they would have to get the fuck away from the town once they would have liberate it. Forsaken needed the town too, to protect themselves, and it was their town too. They were already considered as monster because they were undead. Alliance hate for undead is regularly shown in the story without a need for them to do evil deed.
Internment camp were an excuse, most were poorly handle and the orc were poorly treated, they could have offer the orc a chance to proves their values, they did not. And when the orc tried to leave, they were hunted too. Which is kinda sensical knowing the war they had with them a few year earlier.
Night Elves have always been jerk. To realize that you just need to look at how they let the Tauren dies killed by centaurs and pigmen, while they'r one of the most peacefull species of their continent. And their treatment of their old Allies, blood elves and Nightborne is clearly showing how they think.
Baine pointed that out, but the Alliance forgot that Theremore were as much a good military target especially with how they worked with the Alliance in cataclism. Kirin tor weren't really neutral anymore when they decided to offer troops in a defense of a city openly at war with the horde.
This questline made even less sense when you know that the ship that tried to capture thrall are from Theremore. But it is as it is. I mean Thrall giving power to garosh is at least as much stupid.
No the treaty was still up after the broken shore, they reiterate it a while after Genn do his retarded shit for which some character do talk about it being a mistake he shouldn't have done. He didn't know Silvanas was going to do that at the moment he started to attack her force. He was simply acting his revenge, despite it being against the interest of Azeroth. And Val'kir are valuable for a races that can't reproduce and need exterior help to even keep existing. But yes sylvanas would have do it for some shaddy evil plan.
Rastakhan didn't like the idea to allies completely with the horde it was more a situational allies than a definitive one. Unlike his daughter which think that the Zandalari needed some change and new allies. But yes, the attack on Zandalar made sense in a milatary stand point, however not the bullshit Anduin told himself.
Don't forget the Void Elves used void necromancy on dead zandalari warbeasts during the Zuldazar assault, despite the Alliance's longstanding hatred of undead and necromancy. And also them sending "Purge Squads" to attack the Vulpera in Vol'dun, which was before the Vulpera even officially joined the Horde.
Um, "Purge Squads"? I didn't do the assault in Vol'dun too often, the quests are too long for my liking, but I am pretty sure Alliance quest specifically orders to not attack Vulpera, only their cargo (which they trade to the Horde).
Max Haly necromancy on animals is not evil though. Its the same with eating animals and eating humans. One is not evil, other is very evil.
There is nothing wrong with purging furries
The question I have is why does the alliance accept deathknight but not forsaken? It kinda the same thing in the end
@Valithor maybe but in both case it comes down to undead whith there free will and memory coming back to stormwind seeking what they think to be there home and in one case they killed them without even listening to what they have to say and in the other they still are walking amongst the living citizen of the town... that's some clear double standards.
I wasn't prepared to see Genn and Turalyon dancing, I spilled my drink all over my desk 😂
You missed couple of things about Theramore. Kirin Tor did send troops to help defend the city but one of blood elves committed treason and was lowering its defence but he was doscovered. Jaina got mad Ronin died that day to soften a blow of the mana bomb. Jaina didnt revenge since she didnt think all blood elves are reaponsible for that, only after second treason of Kiron Tor she decided to purge city. Also she spared anyone who didnt resisted.
It still is not a good thing to do to just target a race of people even though they're dedicated to being a shop keeper...
That’s false regarding the Purge of Dalaran. Jaina killed Sunreavers who had surrendered, and it’s also worth noting that the Sunreavers had no involvement with the destruction of Theramore or the acquisition of the Divine Bell.
@@Ultimaton100 So who do you think stole the bell and hid it in the blood elf capital?
I'm impressed you were able to find one bad thing yet alone make a video last 16min
Er...but Jaina isn’t alliance. Even before BFA she wasn’t alliance. Her attempts at cross faction alliances is like...a core part of her character and backstory. I mean I guess technically she is ally now bc of the Kul Tirans joining the alliance, but that’s recent and long after the purge of Dalaran.
After the purge Jaina broke the Kirin'Tor's neutrality and it became a faction of the Alliance, with her as its leader. Jaina has been Alliance ever since.
@@danu2133 For like 5 mins until she left the Kirin Tor to Khadgar and the Kirin Tor became neutral again. And TBH I wouldn't consider her a faction leader even during that time. Not like Varian and the rest. And in between those two events she helped during the Siege of Org. The purge of Dalaran had nothing to do with the Alliance and everything to do Jaina and the city itself. It was literally a brief civil war in Dalaran.
@@danu2133 incorrect, the kirin tor already sided with the alliance when they decided to help theramore and the horde killed rhonin.
To your point of the Alliance troops being sent to Theramore Rhonin was Explicit in his orders that they were SOLEY to defend Theramore. They would NOT attack.
Ok Ik I'm late but for Dazzar Alor the Zandalari had actually already attacked Kul Tiras during the Alliance war campaign.
even as an alliance main I know that we aint the goodygoods we act like. We like the horde wont let old wounds heal and keep old hatreds close.
*Laughs in tyrande and gaymane*
Yeaaah sure... Compare a lightnign strike operation to kill a King (who was offered a surrender) because his city was harbouring a Horde army and sent their own soldiers to assault Kul'Tiras with a full blown genocide against a surrendered landmass full of civilians and wiping out 1/3 of their race in one night. (Teldrassil WAS a landmass btw).
Btw dont listen to that vlad guy that replied hes a godamn stalker irl
@@Aganie. "stalker irl" whats that supposed to mean?
How many peace treaties and genocides have the horde participated in?
Say what you want about Tyrande and Genn. But their reactions are the most realistic when you consider all these other stupid fucking plot points blizzard forces. Let's keep the War and warcraft. Fuck this Horde council, fuck this High King nonsense.
Jaina and Arthas the Machine both killing the bloodelfs, nice! If she wasnt so hard to get, they could have done that together in WOTLK.
lol oh goodness
😂😂😂
Majority of these leave out key pieces of information and are seemingly intentionally misleading.
1-Jaina's Purge of Dalaran: Aethas knew they toke the bell, and didn't stop them. The leader she talked to and tried twice for him to confess and work with her didn't. Only after his refusal did they take down his guards and go for the purge. The bell in question was an awful artefact that would have done extreme harm to the horde and alliance both if Garrosh got to use it and only where stopped because of Anduin. During the ToT story line multiple altercations occur where Lor'themar feigns ignorance of the bell and Aethas shys away multiple times to confessing his sins. Her goal wasn't exile, it was detainment to find the culprits, she knew not everyone was a guilt but because Aethas wouldn't help, everyone was a suspect and this was too dangerous of an item to shrug away.
2-Camp Taurajo: You forgot to mention innocents where killed by the looters because they where ex prisoners, they where then killed or arrested by alliance players. Also, the camp wasn't training your run of the mill hunter warrior, but Kor'kron, Garrosh's own force. They where a vital military target especially considering Garrosh's expansion north.
3-Unprovoked attack on stormheim: This is wow's fault. Originally it was intended that you would go from Azsuna to Val'Sharah to Highmountain to Stormheim. During the Azsuna questline the alliance find a letter on a horde sailor informing them of Sylvanas's planned attack on Stormheim. This is what is intended to lead on to the questline in Stormheim, said quest is still in the game as a lootable quest with a turn in with Greymane, nothing connected or leading from it. In cannon Greymane knew about the plan to capture the Valkyries, oh and she brought plague there.
4-Attack on Dazar'Alor: The Zandalari trolls where letting the horde using there city as a base. They had already had the attack on Brennadam. The unprovoked attack on a kul'tiran town with no alliance military set up where they mostly killed and also specifically brutalised civilians. Even during the alliance assault they had given full plans to avoid civilian causalities. This one is jumping through so many hoops to try and act as if the alliance ain't saints during this conflict.
5-Silithus: This would have a strong point, the alliance striked first, unprovoked, and with intent to kill against non combative forces. Except you entirely ignored that Azeroth woke up Magni to tell all the horde and Alliance leaders, before the mining, that hey, Azeroth is bleeding, don't hurt her more and try and help her. Sylvanas got the message and lied that she would before having the goblins do exactly what the world soul said not to do. Oh and the tauren fully agreed with healing azeroth and where to go south as well to help heal the wound, hence why there leaders weren't present during the attack on Darkshore. Sylvanas's preparations toke place prior to the magni meeting, but she ordered it to continue following.
6-The goblin attack: This is a good example of over aggression. The only left out info is the treaty was broken by Garrosh, the alliance weren't aware that Thrall was doing Earthern Ring business and not horde warmongering. But none the less, a good example of alliance going too far. Oh and the goblins didn't join the horde. Gallywix did and he owns the lives of all goblin player characters.
7-Stonespear Tribe: Clear cut alliance being the offenders with no redeeming factor. Should be mentioned that this isn't the first altercation like this or last and both the Nelf's and Tauren oppose the Dwarven archaeological efforts.
8-Undead emissaries: This was a retcon from the chronicles and it even specifically notes that Sylvanas 'claims' to have sent letters with non returning. And the alliance have no knowledge of this what so ever, and it's nothing something they would need to hide. "Hey, you know those moral-less rotting corpses lead by the women who betrayed the previous alliance High General, yea, she reached out to be allies, sounds good right?"
9-Alliance bad for not liking an undead in stormwind. Shocker. Shit point considering Turalyon instantly changed his view and Greymane in the same book came to accept the undead and had empathy for them.
Daelin Proudmoore attacked a group of armed Orcs. His only encounters where them as the aggressors, there is no reason he wouldn't be immediately be aggressive and proven right. The interment camps was another example of the alliance being overly empathetic, not bad. Arthas, really?
The Elves after being informed by Malygos, who was sane at the time, that it was an over use and careless use of arcane magic that attracted Sargeras. The Elves of Kalimdor under the leadership of Malfurion and Tyrande said, ok, no arcane. The highbourne where ostracised because they didn't agree, they also started summoning demons. The High Elves of Kalimdor went a number of ways. Those of Quel'Thalas had the Sunwell to sustain them and also turned to fel, oh and torturing a Naaru. Other High Elves community broke there addiction. Those of the silver covenant used artifacts and weaned themself of there magical addiction and those of the Lodges, in particular Quel'Danil lodge, broke there own addiction by sheer will. And given that you could make more points for why the Blood Elves are bad, or even why the Nightborne are bad, it's a huge reach to call out the Night Elves to do a thing they where advised to by those older wiser and trusted to guide them, oh and where also proven right.
If you think Yrel is being unreasonable for wanting to convert the Orcs then you are implying that the Draenei's lives are simply worth less than the full freedom of the orcs, as there is no question that with time the Orcs will raid again, as they always have done and they Draenei will die unless they strike first. The argument against Yrel is primarly based that a great Naaru tried to convert illidan, and he refused and killed her for it. But Illidan has been either a anti-villain or villain from introduction till now, not once has he been a good person, trying to purge him made perfect sense, gotta remember he is all for mental enslavement, straight up slavery, needless torture, the torture of souls, and the list goes on.
You had two strong points, the rest have too many flaws.
Regarding the last point; His argument also completly disregards how the Iron Horde under Alt-Grommashs leadership had been gearing up for Genocide just as in the canon time line, with their blood magic mainly using Draenei captives. Ner'Zhuls alliance with the void lords was completely detached from this altogether and would have had the potential to destroy Draenor, and Grommash went ahead and welcomed him into the Iron Horde anyway. If it weren't for their Velen, their most senior leader, sacrificing himself to stop Ner Zhuls plan, it even would have worked.
1. Not to mention that Jaina saw several of her friends die due to a traitor Blood Elf Kirin Tor mage sabotaging the gate at Theramore.
I wouldn't say Dailin Proudmoore attacked the Horde without provocation (or at the very least, not without reason). He fought them in the second war, lost a portion of his fleet and his son to their Dragon riders. What he knew the Horde to be was savage Aliens from another world invading them to kill them all.
Basically, for him to see them establishing a new foothold without attacking the Horde, would be the same for us players to see the Burning Legion establishing a new foothold on the broken shore and just accept them as new residents to Azeroth.
As to Jaina defending them, that was all done very hastily and he might have thought he deceived or even mind controlled. After all we saw a lot of mortal palling up with legion or worshiping them , that dosent mean that Legion is to be trusted or welcomed.
The whole reason Thrall led the Horde to Kalimdor was to avoid further conflict with the Alliance. The endgame for Daelin was the complete genocide of all Horde races. Every last man, woman, and child. He proved that when he massacred the inhabitants of Razor Hill during the initial assault on Durotar.
He became the very evil he thought he was fighting. Even Anduin acknowledged Daelin was wrong.
@@Ultimaton100 It's not always black and white, when it comes to whats right or wrong. After witnessing the Horde putting the entire southern continent in ruin and almost managing to do the same with Lordaeron, can you really blame him for not giving them the benefit of the doubt? he acted upon what he knew the Horde to be. he knew of their warlocks and suspected they used Jaina against him, therefore he didn't listen to her either.
And the fact that the Horde decided to kill him, instead of showing their ability to show mercy and send him and the surviving men of his army back to Kul'Tiras, only confirmed to him he was right.
I wouldn't even say he became evil either. He simple fought and killed the Horde to prevent them to grow strong again to the point they could threaten his people and those of Lordaeron, which is what any good leader would do for his people and allies.
Mr Raptor So you’re saying it’s okay to kill children because of what their parents or grandparents did? Genocide is *always* a black and white issue. It’s never excusable under any circumstances.
Also, Daelin refused to surrender and he died in battle. At not point did he give the Horde opportunity to show him mercy, and he didn’t deserve it anyway. Again, he literally butchered children. You’re holding the Horde to higher standards than you’re holding him to. Why show mercy to someone who isn’t showing you or your people any? The Horde’s warriors were obligated to end his life to protect their loved ones.
Lastly, Daelin didn’t fight the Horde to try to prevent them from growing strong again. He would have taken prisoners if that were his goal. But he didn’t. He fought to exterminate them. He didn’t fight for his people or his allies, just his own selfish ambitions. He acted out of hatred and bloodlust, nothing more.
@@Ultimaton100 I'm not debating if what he did was right or wrong. It was clearly wrong, but he didn't know better and considering what the Horde did, I don't blame him for not believing the Horde had become better. He viewed the Horde as we viewed the Burning Legion. Something that had to be exterminated to secure our own world. We as players would have killed demon children too, believing them to be born evil.
You should try and look at it for Daelin's perspective and you could understand his reasons. It won't justify it, but you'll see the reason behind it.
It's a good skill to have, to analyses a situation from different perspectives and not be biased just because you like one side over the other.
Just got to say for the post 3rd war alliance not allowing the undead in, lets have a quick itinerary of events, undead and demons had swarmed the eastern kingdoms and had left deep scars on the people there, then post the war Arthas lead the scourge left in the eastern kingdoms to slaughter all he could find there adding more to the hate for the undead. Then Sylvanas teams up with Garithos who was the de-facto leader of the alliance force Lordaeron only to backstab him and steal the the city. Can you blame the other members of the alliance for not trusting her or just flat hating the undead for the many terrible things they had done up until then
I thought I detected a hint of buttress in this video, especially in the captions.
People upset over Greymane breaking Sylvanas's lantern DuRiNg PeAcEtImE really are scraping the barrel. Gilneas and the horde were at peace when she, you know, tried to exterminate their people
Kopecci and almost succeeded.
Worgens are furries, and furries should die.
Well that is technically incorect, as Garrosh ordered an attack on them. So, he declared a war and Sylvanas carried it out. She broke direct orders during it, but the war was out. And usually, war happens when both sides are at peace, I just feel like I need to point it out
Gilneas was a neutral faction, no allegiance to either side so not only was the attack unprovoked its a class A example of the Horde's tendency to Warmonger recklessly behind the Alliances back
Forbid Mable they werent furries back then, they started becoming worgens to fight the undead off.
Alliance Bad: 16:08
Horde Bad: 78:34
No
No
No
No
No
Not true
No
No
No
Are you going to make a video or two about what the factions did right?
Sisco The Kid Horde’s video will be about three minutes long. With one minute being and intro and 30 seconds for advertisements.
Shaw never orders the alliance operative to kill goblins. The quest “free samples” is to collect ore not to kill goblins and it is infact the goblins that are the aggressors as they attack alliance on sight not allowing them to collect ore in a neutral zone.
....what? You loot the ore from dead bodies AND are all but bluntly told to be violent with this line in the quest text: "Someone who can handle a fight against overwhelming odds and come out alive.".
Alliance murdered and looted ore that the Horde mined up. There are no two ways about it.
Yeah, I was walking in a restaurant and taking their food as samples. I dont know why they called the police.
Jacky Ng not the same thing, goblins dont own Silithus or Azerite so it was like going around picking rocks.
@@MrVlad12340 You are right. But they dug it up already right?
YourTheManNowDawg
Shaw sends you to collect some Azerite but he told you to be ready for a fight cause he knows what the horde is. The goblins are mining the blood of the world soul standing on the corpses of the Cenarion Circle druids that used to live where the blade was plunged into the planet, these are probably not good guys...and sure enough. As soon as you approach, weapon sheathed they goblins immediately attack and try to kill you. Once they’re dead, sure take the azerite, why not?
The developers could have made the NPCs neutral and forced alliance players to kill them which would have made Alliance the aggressors but clearly you are sent to collect azerite, not to kill, the goblins force your hand with their hostile actions.
I KNEW THERE WAS A REASON TO WHY THE EDITING FELT SO SIMILAIR!
flying buttress I love u and ur god damn videos with so many god damn bad jokes, puns and extra sassy notes! keep up the good work pal
yeah yeah I know it aint his channel, but still the man is a beast
Great video, and I’d forgotten about this. I would love to know what your background music is! Superb choice!
At the time of Jaina killing the Blood Elves in Dalaran she wasn't part of the Alliance, she was the leader of Dalaran, and therefore this really isn't the Alliance's doing but actually Jaina's
also from blizz themselves she was not meant to attack them. Only teleport but they never fixed it.
Well Dalaran without the Scryers is just neutral kirin tor and the Silver covenant, which was a part of the alliance. So I guess partly it was a deed of the Alliance...?
So what I'm getting from the video is that whenever the alliance are actually aggressors they have a tendency of giving new allies to The Horde solidifying alliances to The Horde.
To be clear, not every time but at least 3-6 times by my count.
1. Garathos and the Blood elves
2. Garathos and the Forsaken*
3. Attacking the Goblins after capturing Thrall( which could be argued as is doing a good thing because that led to the Goblins being free from slavery so...)
4.the invasion of Pandaria which lead the natives choosing sides(I know story wise the playable ones joined at the Wandering Isle. But, Throughout the campaign in Pandaria there are many instances in which the natives can and will choose to side with or against one or both of the factions)
5. The Dalaran incident and Alaria's visit the sunwell*
6. The battle of Dazar'alor
* can be argued about weather or not the Alliance can be held responsible for these events
The Blood Elves joined the Horde because Lorthemar was coerced by Sylvanas, which he was close friends when she was alive, after he had the creeping suspiscion that Kael'Thas abandoned them (which he was absolutely right about) and because the Blood Elves were up to some pretty evil stuff back BC, like desecrating places of worship that Alliance Paladins held dearly (most explicitly in the Blood Charger questline in Stratholme, were they drove one of the last ramaining original Paladins of the Silver Hand to succumb to the Scourge), the remaining High Elves of the Alliance Expedition in Outland witnessing first hand all of Kael'thas messed up experiments in Outland and lastly betraying the remaining Draenei to the Legion and Illidan to drive them out of Tempest Keep, making it very reasonable why the Alliance didn't trust the Blood Elves AT ALL.
Seriously, why does everyone keep forgetting how absolutely detestable Blood Elves were?
@@Donnerbalken28 personally I still think Elves and Trolls tend to cause most of the problems on Azeroth(Barring Direct interventions of the Titans, Old gods, the Legion, ect.) Due to messing with thing not ment for mortals (Like the Well of Eternity, Loa, Old God Minions, ect.) And waring against each other.
Also a good chunk of people don't realy care to look into the Blood Elves due to being lazy, not reading between the lines, or not Knowing what to look for for the information.
2 year old video but Id argue Alterac valley is an alliance bad moment.
The only unjustified aggressions are assault on Dazaralor and locking talanji up. The ratio of Alliance aggressions is like 49:1 for the horde.. How unexpected
Jaina: It's too late, they've all helped Garrosh. This entire city must be purged of Blood Elves.
1un4cy but she couldn’t watch Arthas do this...
yeah I could never understand her purge, like bitch you couldnt accept arthas doing it when people were turning into literal zombies.
The stormheim is... They're the undead. They should rest in peace already, so destroying then is a morally right thing to do. You're not 'killing' them, they're dead already.
Wait today's not April 1st.
I can vouch for how good the videos are by FlyingButtress. I just watched his most recent on before this video. Great way to learn about the lore of WOW and have a few laughs.
On point one there’s a noticeable difference. One is Troops moving into their own zone; yeah the Kirin tor helped out but it wasn’t using the city in order to break in anywhere. Jaina 100% overreacted but the garrosh loyalists I’d still say abused it
Yes, excuse murdering shopkeepers
CamTheKitty horde never had a gripe with that. Only fair if they get the same treatment in turn.
@@MrVlad12340 Not in a neutral city. Keep defending the monster that is Jaina though
@@OhNoTheFace "monster" - kills dozen blood elfs and imprisons the rest. "Muh Waifuh Slyvanas" - genocides entire nation, destroyed Gilneas, keeps doing shit so evil that it makes dreadlord clap approvingly and yet still loved by her fans. Hmmm...
@@MrVlad12340 She also helped murder her own father to be fair, and directly led to countless alliance members dying by helping horde numerous times. Shes not exactly a good person. Probably done some other shit that slips the mind, I once researched quite a bit on her and shes done a lot of questionable shit, but its been a good few years.
Arthas cursed sylvanas, so I'd say he carries at least some of the blame for her actions.
And Jaina didn’t stop him making her responsible for everything they did :P