Hypostasis (The Persons of the Trinity)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2013
- How Father, Son, and Spirit are not three modes of the same God, but distinct communications of the divine essence whose differences do not undermine the unity of God, but reinforce it.
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This professor is magnificent in how he explains the unity of the Godhead. I give him an A+!
Wonderful teaching. Thank you.
so serious when describing the "pen-ness of markers"
Thank you much in helping my learning.
This helped me for a test I have tomorrow!
THANKYOU sir New subscriber happy easter
Muchas gracias, don Ramón, por hacer esto público. Especialmente para los que vivimos muy lejos. A veces estas explicaciones se hacen necesarias para los legos. Como yo, catequista pero lego.
If I had to set through classes like this I would completely turn in to dusk.
i have a test tomorrow too. thanks
Reading the Gospel this becomes obvious. Without the concept of the trinity, the gospel becomes incomprehensible. For example, "I and the Father are one" and the multiple times Jesus, refering to himself, states, "I am". Reflect also on Jesus' statement, "I am with you until the end of time" alongside "it is expedient that I go: for if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go I will send Him to you." In short, the presence of the Son is the presence of the Father, and the presence of the Paraclete is the presence of the Son. And given Areistotelian syllogism (If A is B and B is C, therefore A is C), therefore God is one presence, one power, one glory.
His explanation is similar on how one explains the Aristotelean Triad. The logos., the Ethos, and the Pathos
@@Tactics592 : The Trinity is nothing but neo-platonism.
The disciples are also said to be one. Does this make them God too? Of course not. They are united in their purpose. Lots of people say I am in the Bible. Does simply saying these two words make them God? If you want to quote the NT, what about those passages where Jesus prays to and worships his God. Or where Jesus dies. Or where he is resurrected by God to take his position at the right hand side of God. By all understanding of language, this shows that Jesus is not the same person/ being as the one called God.
@@ewankerr3011 correct.
@@ewankerr3011 Neo-platonism being a pagan philosophy does not discount the Truths it is semi-conscious to.
By Church Fathers, do you refer to Doctors of the Church? Or Nicene Fathers of the First Council of Nicaea?
Im coming across this quite late, thank you for a good succinct presentation.
I have 1 question though. In your explanation of the hypostasis, whilst I generally agree, it does appear that you cross the line in the sense that it seems like the essence is like a platonic form, in that rather than the Father being the sole monarch that begets the Son and spirates the Spirit, it is the essence itself that is doing the begetting, or, communicating, as it were, all 3 so that whilst you attempted to avoid modalism and nominalism etc... you invariably fall into it somewhat.
Is this fair assessment?
If that is the case then begetting and spirating will be an essential property causing infinite sons and spirites each one having his own son an spirit
Correct me if I'm wrong, but ousia does not confirm that the 3 divine persons are 1 God, only that the 3 persons have "godness".
I might be completely wrong about this, but this is my speculation at the moment. The ontological arguments define God as a maximally great being. Now you could go around this argument by simply claiming no being is maximally great, but if there was to be a maximally great being, that being would by necessity have to exist. People usually stop there, but I am speculating that you could use that argument repeatedly as many times as you want, but since every one of those beings would be maximally great they would be maximally great in power, love, eternity and so forth. These beings would then by necessity have the same will, same goal and same actions. As such it would be nonsense to speak of these maximally great beings as anything else but one being, even if they differed on some attributes that would not impact their greatness.
Also, if you go through the philosophy of the Logos, then the Logos would by necessity of being God's word also be God. It would be the Word through which the Father created all existence, which would by itself be co-eternal with the Father and share all the Father's attributes. By definition then the Word would be of the same substance as the Father, and as such both are God individually, but God is not a compound of both.
The issue with all of this is that it is simply incomprehensible to humans because 1) God is a vastly greater and different being to us and 2) We can only know about God what he chooses to cross the ontological gap to reveal to us, i.e. all we really know about God is through Jesus since Jesus is God. The parable of showing a cube to a flatlander is popular these days; tell a flatlander that all these 2D shapes, including the 6 squares all are the same cube and they will view it as a paradox, but we, living in a 3D world and understand the world in 3 dimensions, can see how they all are the same cube.
Theologic speculation is so interesting! I'd love to see the results of a random survey of lay members of the Catholic Church, asking them for their explanation of what the Trinity is. Ousia, hypostasis, perichoresis...marvelous (and so useful, and so central to the practice of Christianity, to differentiate a "father," a "son," and a "holy spirit"!)...
Fire
A note to those who prefer truth: the material at about 5:45 and following is flagrantly incorrect. As per St. John of Damascus, the terms person (prosopon), hypostasis, and individual (atomon) are used interchangeably by the Saints. Subsistence (subsistentia) is the exact Latin equivalent of γποστασις as used in, as an offhand example, the 649 Lateran council against monothelitism. A person/hypostasis/subsistence/individual is constituted by a nature and properties.
Wow. You just explained how an eternal son is illogical!
5:20, a good explanation of the Godhead, especially (8:16).
Is that a Filioque I hear at 8:27?
I dont think so.
It seems he specifically says "sent". I t doesnt look like he meant to indicate that the hypostatic origin is from filioque also.
It does appear to me that he may be on the skirts/border of making the essence like a platonic form, and falling into a kind of nominalism.
Now i am more confused 😂
Push rewind
How is this not the teaching of Plato on the Realm of the forms and/or the Realm of the good?
You said "every time you see one of the persons of the Trinity, you see all the three present". Does that mean that when we have the Eucharist, we have all the three persons of Trinity and not alone Jesus's " body, blood, soul and divinity" ? If you say Trinity is present in Eucharist, isnt it Sebellianism, Patripassianism? Or in other words, when the Son was incarnate, was Trinity also present in womb or Son alone? Also at the cross, when the Son suffered, did Trinity also suffer??
Of course they all suffered. In different ways.
Don't confuse God's essence or nature with His work. God's essence/nature is 1 but God works in 3 persons.
I urge you to get out of catholicism, follow Jesus only and start praying for full guidance. It's much easier when you know God alone does all of His work through you and worshipping him in spirit is what He wants
How do you account for the absence of trinitarian thought in the historical record until the 2nd century?
Look at Ignacio’s of Antioch. The writings of Paul and the epistles of John. I believe in one of Paul’s writings Paul writes may the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.
I meant ignatius of Antioch
This got me thinking :
1) Is Elijah's spirit a different person from Elijah? Is my spirit a different person from me? Is God's spirit a different person from God? God is holy and so his spirit is holy .
2) Church Fathers could have used different words. But pre- Nicean Fathers were all subordinationists. They did not believe in or understand the trinity in its present form.
3) Did those who first use words like ousia and hypostasis understand those words in the same way as later generations did? Or did later generations impose a different meaning on the words? Did the understanding of these words differ from West and East?
4) Is it clear that the doctrine of the Trinity is not explicitly taught in scripture? It took generations to evolve finally into its fourth century form.
Like
?sooo, “penness” or being a pen is one thing but there are three pens that share that penness which is what makes all three pens. If we replace “penness” with “essence of God” and “pen” with “God”, don’t we come up with three distinct Gods/pens. ?
the third god or pen is you.
நல்ல கற்பனை
4:30
“All of you have motor vehicles”
I only have 4 bicycles
There is something wrong in differentiating hypostasis and prosopon. If the author says that hypostases are the relationship, they so are prosopon. The difference between hypostasis and prosopon is not what the author tries to explain.
Thank you for sharing this science fiction-nes.
Why do you call them "Hypostasis?" Why do you claim that God is even a Hypostasis? I would like to know where you got this idea from. Who made it applicable to our one supreme being who is omnipotent, omniscient, and ever lasting?
Hebrews 1verse 3 says that the man christ Jesus is the image of God's singular hypostasis
The concept is not hard to grasp, and you do a great job at explaining it. The problem is the implications of this conclusion, and the scripture passages that do not support it.
Hey guy, you sound like a technical legalist!
This man is not a theologian, he’s not a minister, a pastor, or a priest; he’s a professor of Christian theological truths. What he presents in his lectures can all be substantiated by Scripture; for example (2:08) can be substantiated by John 14:9, etc.
This is why there's still churches that cannot get on board with the trinity, because it's so contradictory and it requires mental gymnastics to understand it. They'll hide behind the mystery of God, and refute any physical concept we'll use to attempt to make sense of it claiming it's blasphemous. So really, they are saying we know it makes no true sense, but because God is God, he is capable of doing anything so it must be true and don't argue it.
It doesn't sit well with me. If I'm wrong, then let God show me the way and bring me to my knees in front of the truth. All I care is the truth, and working out my salvation, just like Paul told is to do. The trinity doesn't make sense, pray for me.
@@TaxEvasi0nHow does everything else in Christianity make sense to you, so that you can follow the faith? Because just about everything in xnity requires faith, and faith doesn't respect your intellect! Either you believe it or you don't... There's no in-between!
My advice to you is that make peace with (the mystery) the otherness of God!
It's sad that you think the scriptures do not support it.
@@TaxEvasi0nI don’t mean to preach, but Islam says it was all a mistake and God is One. Simple as that. Maybe try considering that perspective.
Where is ousia on the periodic chart? Is it before or after or somewhere in the middle of hydrogen and Ununoctium? Jesus prayed this also Deut. 6:4-6 “Hear, O Israel: YHWH our God, YHWH is one. 5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. Amen
Galatians 1:8
During the Lord's Baptism the Father spoke from heaven and the Holy Spirit descended on the Lord Jesus Christ as a dove. Three persons, one God, with multiple persons. I don't understand it but I believe it.
Quote "I don't understand it but I believe it."
You don't even understand what you believe, congratulations.
@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod is this a bot post?
@@Sin_Brings_Death Did you ask that because the comment clearly isn't?
@jesusisthechristthesonofgod No, I asked because the style of your comment sounded "bot" generated. The speed and content of your reply seem to indicate you are a bot. This is my final response to you.
@@Sin_Brings_Death I'm replying quickly because I am currently watching videos on youtube and replying to other people. Seems I embarrased you by pointing out that you admit you don't know what you believe in. I could declare you are a bot too, but that would be childish.
Near the beginning when he said "three communications of the divine essence" I could see how from a biblical perspective this is wrong. The Father is the first person who begets the Son and from whom the Spirit ultimately proceeds. Not an essence communicating itself out in the three persons which take their substance from this essence but a first person who eternally generates the Son and breathes out the Spirit in communion with the Son. Which relates to calling the Son the Word. The Word is communicated by the Father and the Spirit is the atmosphere in which the Word is spoken. So what we end up with is a God who is radically personal, even the very breath the Word Himself is eternally spoken in is Himself a third divine person.
You are right, that is the difference between the roman-catholic theology and the eastern-orthodox one. The Catholics emphasize the essence of divinity, not being able to grasp the paramount importance of the person who IS.
Yes. This is the schism.
Well no , Son and Spirit always existed. Just as Father did
“Hypostasis is defined by relationship.“ Wouldn’t that make the Holy Spirit the Father according to scripture? …
Mat 1:20 - But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Luk 1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Greek theology
9:29 bookmark
Study up on Athanasius, the priest who is largely responsible for arguing for the Trinity. He was made a glorious saint by the catholic Church Study up on his biography. He was far from a saint. the early doctrines and dogma were forged through schisms, deceit, intimidation, excommunication, thuggery, etc. And THIS WAS DONE IN THE NAME OF CHRIST!!!
i see no cubes
Why God needed to be divided like that? if god is simple, this is really makes him very complicated thing.
may flower ....He is definitely the most complicated, Its written " For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith YHWH . For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
The human mind cant comprehend His infinite nature....however, salvation - while intricate, Made it simple.
Believe, repent, worship YHWH with your heart, mind and soul and love others.
As hard as that acutally may be, a child can understand.
may flower
God is a maximally great being. Maximally great beings are maximally excellent in every possible world. There is a possible world where no other free agents exist. God must be multi-personal in order to be maximally excellent in every possible world.
God has NO NEEDS
God lacks NOTHING
But... there’s more than one pen.
And... there’s more than one motor vehicle
With book titles it's only one work and many issues. If you watch "workness" it is one, if you watch "issueness" they are many. All the different issues are the same work.
Please stop using being for each member of the Trinity that’s what Ousia means
those who are saying that they understand the trinity... does not!
it is a mystery...
and no one is suppose to understand it!
and the Bible says that God is not the author of confusion.
@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod
god is not the author of anything...
man is!
@@jhake67 God created the entire world and every creature.
@@jesusisthechristthesonofgod
whose god?
@@jhake67 Jehovah God
Who talks like that. Persons?! Say people like everyone else. Person is singular, people is plural
They use the word persons to avoid admitting they have three people as God.
Sorry, Jesus isn’t God, nor equal to God. He called our God and Father his God and Father at John 20:17.
If you're of the opinion that Christ is not God, then sir, you have no life, for life is in Christ who is Jehovah God our Saviour.
Another thing: you quote John 20:17, but are you aware of John 20:28? You cannot build a theological conclusion on just John 20:17!
@@McIntyreBible
John 20:28
Great scripture. It is open to interpretation of course. Did Thomas call Jesus God? Or, did he bring attention or thanks to his lord Jesus and his Father(God)? Did Thomas look at Jesus when he said ‘my Lord’, then raise his eyes and maybe his hand to the sky when he said ‘my God’? No one knows. We weren’t there.
Maybe this scripture will shed some light:
1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
NWT
Well he was acting on his human nature
God is Reality, Reality is nothingness, and Nothingness is infinite. This video God or consciousness trying to explain itself. Consciousness is here and now, and not in the past. Everybody can be the Son, which means in the nature of God or godly. Not only Jesus Christ, but every saint and Sage from all spiritual and mystical teachings from the whole world, and not only Christianity. ( Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Vodou, etc.)
Yeah.
Jesus Christ was "A" Son of God ( which means godly in Hebrew). And he is not "The" only Son of God. Everybody is Godly and that is somehow the essence of Gnosticism. Being a slave to a spiritual master for thousands of years is not pure Spirituality. It is Fundamentalism, orthodox. Spirituality is happening right now and there have been / there are a lot of masters in the world. All the other teachings are also valuable.
@@sensemaking1167 Exactly!!
All of these are ideologies, ways to distract people from the truth. There is nothing out there which is God. God is a human construction ( the proof is there is no such conception in the animals). If it is from Humans, it is mostly about human beings. Jesus Christ and God are one, so are we.
We need to understand that and work toward that omniscient, the highest consciousness of ourselves. Most religions are just corruptions of the true Spirituality, self-inquiry of the Truth.
So easy to understand. But it takes a people a lot of time to get that simple idea. I would not suggest anyone who wants to understand the nature of God or reality by starting with Theology ( which mostly are paradigm lock, and ideology). I would recommend scientific studies and mystical and Spiritual traditions and insights. And you can get there.
Nobody is telling you the Truth. They are distorting the Truth so that it fit within their worldview.
Thus you have to investigate for yourself and believe anyone who is telling you their opinions and positions.
@@foreignlanguageinstitute7067 Couldn't agree more.
Keep it up!!
@@sensemaking1167 Good, man.
Great spiritual insights!!
very confusing creed
ThE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE FATHER ARE THE SAME, GOD MAKE PREACHERS NOT THEOLOGY SCHOOL THIS IS THE PROBLEM TO MANY PEOPLE WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD TRYING TO INTERPRETATE SCRIPTURES,
no wonder Christianity is collapsing
Hi Allen , I suspect you are not aware of the facts mate , Christians have killed over 100 times more people than Muslims , a reasonable examination of history shows who the real terrorists are mate , more and more people every day learn how to search google for the facts , sadly some people prefer to believe their own propaganda and ignore the facts . it really is no wonder Christianity is collapsing , and Islam is growing stronger
@@malfabian1690 Christians are growing more and more, even if we aren't the first fastest growing religion there is a reason people pick Islam over Christianity. To understand Christian theology you must be extremely smart, to understand Islamic theology literally only takes a 3rd grade education.
You will see Christianity expanding .The truth is what ever people may say
"Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father"
Christianity is growing
@@malfabian1690Oh, you're talking about the crusaders under the Roman Catholic church? Go research revelations, and perk your ears up when they start talking about the Roman Catholic church, the whore of babylon.
It's not Christians mate, it's the Catholics.
wrong, all three distinct persons share the same essence of divinity and therefore they are 3 distinct personal divine gods.... simple
Paganism that's what the trinity is
Nothing commun with monotheism.
Trinity= one essence + tree persons= tree gods.
even if one essence there's still TREE gods= paganism.
You are not describing Trinity, you are describing Tritheism, which is not what we belief.
@@honorscholar6692
Exactly,
In the bible there's no trinity. But the cherch teachs tritheism and calls it trinity.
Jesus, as all messengers from God, teachs monotheism, the first and the most important commandement.
Jessus is a humain being, he's the christ, borns from vierge Mary, a messenger of Almithy God.
Not God or son of God.
@@rachidibnrochd8313 No, you pointed that Trinity is paganism and then you tried to change the meaning of Trinity into Tritheism by forcing a belief that we worship 3 gods, when in reality, Trinitarianism holds that there is only 1 God.
The doctrine is on the foundation as monotheistic, not polytheistic. Tritheism is polytheistic, which you are attempting to state how Christians view, and that's not the case.
@@honorscholar6692
Just words, cherch words.
Jewish are monotheists, one person one god.
Muslims are monoteists, one person one god.
Christians are tritheist, three persons three gods.
Christians worship a god half
humain halfdivin: pagnaism.
Cherch's words change nothing from truth.
Jessus's teachings and cherch's teachings are different things.
@@rachidibnrochd8313 You should look into what Tritheism is and Trinitarianism carefully before coming to that conclusion.
Anyone who does, will take note that Trinitarianism is Monotheism, the church rejected Tritheism.
Jesus is not half god half man, that's a demigod, he's fully God and fully man, hence the hypostasis.
Jesus promised gates of Hades won't overpower the church.
What is the purpose of this hypothetical rubbish. The Trinity was decided by quarrelling, unscrupulous priests beset upon power.
Total and absolute blasphemy.
You don’t believe in the Trinity ?
Logical absurdity
Jesus predicted you would say such
Allah having 2 right hands makes sense😂 did you wash your nose or has shaitan blocked it by peeing in it😂