As much of a Dewalt guy as I am, the Milwaukee implementation of stacked pouch cells here is definitely better than the 5ah PS...same size as a regular 6 but way more beans.
The 1.7PS is sweet, on an impact driver or small drill it's amazing if you have a backup. The 5PS we just dont know where it fits. What's is that thing supposed to be, a wider flatter 6XR?
@@TorqueTestChannel Exactly...the 5ah PS is just weird. Still waiting on a reasonably good sale to get the 1.7PS up here, prices have been terrible lately :(
Agreed - 1.7 PS is fantastic; 5 PS is an upgrade over the old 5 XR, but not revolutionary like the little 1.7. Hopefully they'll eventually use that tech to breathe some life into their 12v line, too.
I really have to commend you guys once again for the work you do. I truly believe your channel has forced the power tools industry into re-evaluating their products and producing more honest claims. They have to be watching. I guess you could say, TTC has a huge *impact* on the industry. In all seriousness, keep sticking to what makes you guys great, and thank you for these videos.
Makes no since milwaukee sent alot of small youtubers the new Gen 3 2967 for review but didn't send one to you. I don't think milwaukee likes seeing them numbers and charts.
@@Dbj6988 It's simply because we say no to brands wanting to send us stuff as a channel rule. Other channels getting info and use out there is a good thing though, more the better
Yes we definitely needed a "bigger" grinder category. Obviously I use grinders a lot and after using one of DeWalt's first FleVolt grinders with a 9ah battery, I would never go back to 20v. The power was awesome!
id imagine this new forge batter is a big upgrade for their chainsaw line of tools too, save a ton of weight but maintain the power and batery life potentally
I was using them as an example to a young coworker on how to spot BS marketing. Their's is fantastic, and results in sales, but is super easy to poke holes in and laugh at.
I watched the pipeline when these batteries were first announced and got excited but figured I wouldn't run out and buy any until ya'll ran them through a full test... Thank Ya'll!!!
This is perfect. I run the 3/4 impact all the time and my biggest issue is run time/diminished performance after the battery drops to two bars. A 12.0 would help that issue but holding up the already beefy impact plus the huge 12.0 is a recipe for soreness. As soon as I saw the forge announcement I was waiting for you guys to get your hands on it. Great job.
This is exactly what all of us were waiting to see the torque test Channel test the forge battery, with that being said what we're all waiting for is a forge 12.0 or even a 15.0 xc the Milwaukee 9 in Cut Off saw is an amazing tool that eats through batteries like crazy
To fix the 12Ah 3 bar issue, open the case, with a regulated power supply at 21v go directly to the + and - bypassing the PCB entirely and let it charge to 0 amps and let it sit to balance out. Mine has been good since. I always charge mine on a rapid charger and I've had it for 3-4 years at least (whenever they came out)
@@Walkop "lithium ion smart charger," can you provide an example? I recently got into M18 (8aH with my string trimmer, two 12aH with the mower). Everything is new enough that it works great, however I do charge the mower batteries twice a week in summer and would like to avoid an issue next season. Thanks.
Can you explain? We hook up DC power supply at 21v and pull it off when it says 0 amps current? I have the 3 bar issue on an 8ah bat I connected it and it shows zero amps from the get go but only 3 bars showing. Maybe that's just depleted cells?
Wow today is a great day, both you and tools and stuff testing new major battery releases! Speaking of which, this pack would imho be better off with new murata 21700 4ah tabless 21700 cells. It would have more capacity, better quality and similar if not better power level. They are using them in the new mx fuel packs and judging by the animation you shown here for the new level 5 upcoming packs.
Would love to see video focused on your test gear, test loads, and other test equipment. Discussing how you developed the testing processes, chose the equipment, maybe even a teardown and look inside the electronic loads..... with some discussion regarding how you chain them together... and the upside or downside of that setup
This opens up new questions! First: lipo tend to die quick when ran hard. How often do i have to replace these! Second: seeing how safe(not at all) my rc lipo's are. Will these burn my house down to? Third: li-ion doesn't mind being shelved fully charged that much. Will these lipo batteries be dead when i need them if i leave them charged for a long time?
You should try testing the different chargers that these brands offer. I have a m18 supercharger, it seems to charge fast but at 250 dollars it would be nice to know if it was really worth the money i paid for it. I have also heard that these high speed chargers can damage your batteries, is that true too? I know dewalt offers these charger too so it might be worth testing.
The batteries will only take in a certain amount of amperes and it will be safe. Won't degrade lithium doing so. It's a great charger but for the price... Meh. It's the "simplest" way but a regulated power supply would be cheaper if you know what you're doing.
@@TheTastefulThickness LifePo4 shows very little to no more ill effects compared to "slow" charging. Fast discharge is going to have a significant impact however. Li-Po is one chemistry that you'll also see ill effects from fast charging over time. I do not recommend draining the battery and immediately putting it on the fast charger, certainly not taking it off immediately and discharging again. Of course there is safeties in place for thermal but heat is by far the biggest killer.
@@TheTastefulThickness I know there is plenty of articles saying it's bad to fast charge lithium. However when there's not a chemistry mentioned you can certainly disregard that information. I realize above I said "lithium" and that's my mistake. Tool batteries are LifePo4 and to my knowledge that is the only chemistry being used at this time. (For good reason)
I live in Alaska, I can say the Milwaukee batteries are champs in the cold. Funny thing is, if you use it and it bogs down, you can just keep pulling the trigger and the internal waste heat keeps slowly bringing the pack back to life as you use it.
We have a fleet of 2767 and XC 5 batteries. Biggest problem we have with them is that they rattle themselves to death over time and the battery gets so loose in the tool that you have to tape it in every time you change battery. Even in the Milwaukee-sourced promo material you showed in this video you can see the HO 12.0 bouncing around in the 3/4". Not really sure how Milwaukee solve this while maintaining backwards compatibility.
The info, in very specific and wide ranging gained here is invaluable. Where else could we get real unbiased information on power tools specifically. We’d be on the job still like “ can you tell the difference?” -- “ oh yea I think so, it sure looks cool” Hehehe Great stuff. 🥇
I usually take advantage of the kitted "special buy" tools/batteries from HD or Acme Tools. Looking forward to seeing if Forge comes in with some deals going into Black Friday or Christmas As a professional homeowner, I'll still stick with my 5.0's given the opportunity. But I could certainly see how a Forge battery would be excellent with the already overweight framing nailer or a circular saw/sawzall up on a roof
I’m not moving to the Forge for at least 2 years. In 2023, I added five 6ah HO, two 3ah HO, and two 12ah HO. And on top of that, a kit I bought this summer came with the old school 5.0 (ugh)
The old 5.0 are still great batteries on certain tools. As shown on the video, impacts, radios, fans, and some other tools don’t really benefit from the high outputs. I try to cycle my cheaper, weaker batteries and keep my high outputs “fresh” when I’m at home and extra batteries are on hand. I love the small, “weak” 2.0s for my drills and impacts. They die quick but charge quick too.
TH-cam in 2020: Wood chips and stop watches *TH-cam w/ TTC* Here's an entire dissertation on what this new thing can do measured a dozen ways. Man, brands can't get away with anything now-days! Nervous marketing departments re-editing their claims as we speak.
I have to say, you guys really do a great job finding and communicating the performance interactions between tools and batteries. I really like to understand what is going on when I choose and use things. When I got my first battery powered tools- really not that long ago - it was all a black box to me. I've subsequently spent some time on the internet learning (as well a seeing real-life tool performance). I feel like I understand it all pretty well now, and I have to say that you were probably the number one resource in getting me there. Thanks!
I use LiPo’s in my rc cars. The issue is they swell and catch fire from time to time. I keep my lipos in a 50cal ammo box. If I had these batteries, I’d do the same.
Some amazingly good tests there that really help to cut through the marketing to the reality. I've got a pile of red batteries, but I have to confess to a little bit of desire to drop a Forge into my bag.
Higher-end tools like Milwaukee M18 Fuel "talk" with their batteries to get optimal power out of them without overheating them. Most likely this functionality would break when adapting them. Might be an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't do with borrowed batteries.
Can you guys maybe just hook up the batteries to an elctronical load (sorry not sure for correct english terminology) so we can see how many watts each battery can actually supply?
Amazing test, as usual! I'm really curious how the new M18 Angle Grinder with a 6,0 Forge performs against say the Makita 40v grinder the the BL4040F battery. Also... Milwaukee needs to give us a new table saw that runs off 2x M18 batteries and option for corded. Run 10" blades and dado stacks, sturdy optional cart. And where's the updated M18 Surge? Or M18 installation driver that another TH-camr discovered a patent for last year?
Iv been using that very milwaukee saw for 3 years now. Its a beast. I have a Gen 2 that iv had for 7 or more, and theres a big difference. And the gen 2 was a big difference before that.
Would love to see all of makitas 40v xgt F series batteries bl4080f,bl4050f and the new 4040f tested and maybe update all the rankings. especially interested in the hammer drills performance
I really appreciate you making this video, since I wanted to get another battery. Did not want to pay $250 for an 12.0 when I can get a newer forge battery that's a little more worth the price point
It would be nice to see a refrigerated testing too. I always keep my batteries inside and take them out in the cold. They never make it down to the frozen temp but they are definitely cooler than room temp after 15 mins
Battery technology keeps getting better. A couple of weeks ago, some Milwaukee fanboys told me their ten year old batteries are performing just as good as new ones. They are either super exaggerating how long they have been running their batteries or ignorant to the new technology that keeps coming. The modern battery tools are leaps and bounds better than they used to be.
I own the Makita BL4080F, would you like me to send it to you guys? Also, I am going to get my hands on the new BL4040F. People are saying the cells in the 4040F can discharge 50-60A!!!
I've been patiently waiting for miluakee to step their game up and I can say km not disappointed. I've bled, red, for many years and will likely continue to. Hope they come out with some cool m12 batteries next. They're just more comfortable for what I do.
Best tool channel by far. I will not own any of the brand name tools until they are at least 5 years old but every episode is still just as exciting as your first toolkit for Christmas.
My wall outlets handle 1500W all day, barely even get warm. Of course my house does have very thick gauge wiring and outlets that were made in the 60s. I’ve had to replace just one, took it apart to compare to modern outlets and the actual internal contacts on my old outlets were around twice the thickness of the new ones.
Many have already said this. Now it's my turn. I enjoy watching these vids even though I have no need for most of the tools measured. Huge respects for providing believable measured data to keep the big corporations honest. Or maybe I should say less deceitful. ;-)
I use the Milwaukee 3/4 impact with the 6.0 to do semi truck wheels daily. You cant beat it. Ive tried the 1in d handle from Milwaukee. The 3/4 is imo much better, its plenty strong enough and hammers many times faster which results in a faster tire removal as well as the weight difference. For semi tru6the 3/4 is the way to go
I wonder how much the possibility of these bloating/swelling caused them to make a stronger case? Pouch cells like to do that with age. The shape of it fits the circular saw perfectly.
I can’t wait to see the forge battery paired with the new high torque impact wrench!!! That thing is already a beast!!! Plus this extra output would be great for power inverters and battery banks!!
Great test. Thanks for all the time and effort these tests must take. Seems like a great battery. I wonder, did you guys upgrade your hammer drill chart and standings using the 2904-20 with the Forge? I'd really like to see that and how it's standing would change. Thanks!
Good to see the forge are still at least backwards compatible. This Channle is wade ultimately made me buy into Milwaukee. Hope the new Gen 3 high torque beats dewalt. But you also turned my onto Astro for airtools.
Im using your videos as motivation to start tool testing again. I'm marjory out of practice. Thanks for continuing these testing and uploads while mastering the craft. You always pump out great videos bro.
awesome video. exactly what i've been wondering! you talked me out of the forge, for now lol. good info! ive been running the 6.0 ho. if i did more grinding i would need the forge. i have noticed that grinding does whip it down quick.
I was at oreillys the other day and noticed they sell a few battery powered impact wrenchs one was $80 and the other was like $150 please test these i almost bought one just to have in the truck but i rather hear how it fares the torque test channel ❤ ur content stay safe
I'm surprised it didn't make nearly any more power on the 2767. That flex pack jumping it to 24v must have really been the key and now I'm surprised it took it happily
Putting 24V into an M18 is like forcing nitrous into a car that wasn't designed for it, it can work - you just cross your fingers. But big results. The FORGE is like bigger injectors, if the thing wasn't already hungry for more fuel it's not going to need it all that much.
I cooked my 9.0HD using it to establish an edge between the sidewalk and my lawn with the Quick-Lok edger (not the string trimmer). I just picked up a 12.0 Forge and look forward to using it in the future. I would advise anyone buying a 12.0 Forge to double check the lable if picking it up at the will call desk, as the staff seem to think there's no difference between the HD and the Forge and handed me the wrong one before I made them go back and find the Forge.
Can't wait to see the 12.0 forge. Also - wish Milwaukee would make a battery conditioner/balancer. I'd even be willing to have it as a separate item not intended to replace chargers just to use when a battery gives the dreaded 3 bar full charge. It would also be great to have a storage mode where it would charge batteries to a point for longer term storage for those of us that aren't daily warriors. By the way none of my 9.0's have had any problems - all doing great and they are 5+ years old. I've had one 12.0 do the 3 bar full charge but that is an expensive battery to crap out long before it should.
The issue I see is when the voltage doesn't droop as the current raises the wattage increases. The new battery will provide power that an old tool wasn't designed to have available. Mix that with a heavy hand or sticky finger and you're left with something smoking.
I've owned 1 dewalt product in my life, it cost me $375 for a hammer drill, this when they first came out back in (I beleive was in 98 or 97) and that thing failed miserably, i took it back to homedepot 5 times before the denied my exchange, they called the cops on me, i explained the situation to the cops, and cops told them: we can't trespass him when he's got a receipt and an item to return and just because you feel like it, NO, they finally returned me my money back and i never, ever, evaaaa bought a dewalt product again, I'm gonna spend my money on inferior product, no matter how much they've improved , I like pound for pound, that means ryobi, I'm no longer a tradesman and sometimes I use power tools. They last me years.
I’d love to see a forge m12 with some small tools like drills and saws updated. Gen 2 m12 rotary hammer and gen 2 hackzall would be great. I’m sure most of us would love to see Gen 3 impacts too but then that would be getting greedy.
My go to is the M 12 impact with the 3.0. It fits nicely in my toolbelt and does everything I wanted to do but whenever I switch over to the M 18 by notice how much faster it is. I would definitely pay to give the M 12 some more juice.
@@johnschroeder1912 I’m a commercial electrician and have been running a fuel m12 impact for 9 years, any guy I’ve convinced to give one a try has absolutely love it and bought one. Biggest screw we tend to use is a #10 x 1-1/4” pan head and they are fantastic, a lot of time on our sites we are running around a lot and getting into awkward spaces on ladders having a small light impact always on you is awesome. If I was running 5 inch lag bolts it wouldn’t be my impact of choice but for our work it’s awesome. Any higher torque bolted connections we do should probably be torqued to a spec with a wrench anyways. I do still have an 18 fuel impact but it usually sits at home in my tool chest.
I’m currently manually rebalancing my HD 12.0 with a bank of resistors and a fan hooked up to a breadboard lol. It’s and easy way to fix the dreaded 3 bar max charge but it takes a while. I like this new Forge pack though, I’m glad I didn’t buy more HDs recently.
I am still glad that I own Ryobi tools and that I don't have to worry too much about all these batteries. But if I ever do run into the need to have a 1-in electric impact then I guess I have to get a forge battery to make good use of it for a short period of time unless I get HD 12.0.... anyways I'm going to go and proceed to put a four amp hour battery in my saw and fix some things.
Video request! I'm a climbing route builder looking for a new sds rotary hammer. I'd love to see you guys go over some of the available options. Weight, battery life and drilling speed are all factors I'm interested in. You've got a video on compact ones from last year, but those are all too small for our use case. Just not enough beans. Help me see the beans
Btw, the reason there's less voltage drop under load, if I had to guess, would primarily be due to the design of the tabs in each cell, sort of the path that electricity flows in and out. Pouch batteries can have multiple tabs on each electrode, and wider ones at that. Cylindrical batteries only have two tabs, one on each electrode, and under a high load this is a major bottleneck. This will be a bad analogy but I'll make it anyways, say each battery is a rectangular parking lot. The cylindrical battery holds 1000 cars and has two entrance/exits on opposite corners of the lot. The pouch battery holds 500 cars but there's an entrance/exit every 50 yards. If you need to get as many cars out as quickly as you can, the cylindrical battery is going to hit a bottleneck right away. The pouch battery, even though there are fewer cars in the lot, will be able to move more cars out faster. That was a horrible analogy but w/e. Assume people know how to drive in this situation
My favorite tool channel! Would love to see if the Forge brings any more beans to the mid-torque…or are you waiting until there are more forge options to test that?
I don't know if you get them across the pond, but in the UK we have two options for brushless Milwaukee grinders. There's the "Fuel" (with various different switch options and variable speed) and the newer non-Fuel "Brushless" which is rated at a much higher RPM. Plus the brushed one which we can safely ignore. They sell for about the same amount of money, it would be really interesting to see if the higher RPM one is better for certain applications than the Fuel.
Since it is a LiPO pouch, they will eventually swell up and fail, either slowly or catastrophically. I would still prefer to use battery packs with 18650 LiIon cells instead, they are more forgiving of storage conditions with regards to storage voltage.
Good to see others doing pouch style batteries. At the size, the DeWalt 5Ah PS battery doesn't make sense to me as a home gamer. The 1.7 is perfect as it offers high power in a tiny package, and runtime is never an issue for me. But the 5Ah seems like a weird middle ground.
Throw a wire wheel on that grinder and see how long it runs. I determined that it uses an amp hour per minute. Grinding and cutoff wheels, its awesome. Wish Milwaukee would make a plug in adapter for this reason.
Awesome review. My son and I watch your show all the time. (He's eight) While watching this he asked are they going to test table saws? I told him I'd ask. He wants to know which cordless table saw brings the "beans". Lol We are Milwaukee boys. Keep up the good work.
it's crazy how everyone skips over the 3/4" impact in all of these reviews. I have one and it's great, considering the forge battery vs the 6.0 HO for mine.
My 8AH High Output I bought in spring of ‘22 began suffering from the three bar max issue November of last year. I bought two 12AH High Output in February of this year and one began having the same issue by June. Do you know, can I send these back to Milwaukee to either repair or replace?
Good stuff! Have you considered doing a video on best practices for batteries? I'm betting y'all could make a good video on that, dispelling myths, etc. Thanks!
Great review love your channel, Thank you. Question, shouldn't the working torque and max torque beans also changed since it did hit harder in those times, for an overall better score? From the beans I see by putting the video on pause at 5sec and 10 sec of testing, I think it beat the Ingersoll Rang in working torque and max torque but not the 15 sec TQ.
I wish they would use these to supercharge small tools. Like imagine a ratchet that’s actually the size of a normal ratchet or even if it’s still big imagine it actually putting out respectable power. Or a tiny impact or replacing the m12 lineup entirely.
Interesting, so it's actually about what they claimed with power levels near 12ah in most cases. It will be interesting to see how it's priced and the actual charge time with the new fast charger.
Agreed, you should give it a shot! Interested in what it does in other drills, it didn't seem consistent on the drill but that thing just pisses out heat so maybe we got it hot
More greatness from TTC. I would very much like to see some 10.8v comparisons in drill drivers and impact drivers. I had got a metabo set for an older family member a couple of years ago and its a real beaut to use. Weighs a kilo and is nice and handy but will drive 3" screws. Cheers guys! J
As much of a Dewalt guy as I am, the Milwaukee implementation of stacked pouch cells here is definitely better than the 5ah PS...same size as a regular 6 but way more beans.
The 1.7PS is sweet, on an impact driver or small drill it's amazing if you have a backup. The 5PS we just dont know where it fits. What's is that thing supposed to be, a wider flatter 6XR?
@@TorqueTestChannel Exactly...the 5ah PS is just weird.
Still waiting on a reasonably good sale to get the 1.7PS up here, prices have been terrible lately :(
I just bit the bullet and picked up a pair of the oil resistant 1.7's. Figured I would cry once and move on.
I like my 5ah PS I use it all the time
Agreed - 1.7 PS is fantastic; 5 PS is an upgrade over the old 5 XR, but not revolutionary like the little 1.7. Hopefully they'll eventually use that tech to breathe some life into their 12v line, too.
I really have to commend you guys once again for the work you do. I truly believe your channel has forced the power tools industry into re-evaluating their products and producing more honest claims. They have to be watching. I guess you could say, TTC has a huge *impact* on the industry.
In all seriousness, keep sticking to what makes you guys great, and thank you for these videos.
This is exciting to see. I have a feeling the new Forge coming next year will be an even more dramatic jump. Can’t wait!
It's certainly better than we expected so far.
Until FLEX moves some muscle again. 🤣
I'm anxious to see if FLEX is looking at Tabless Cells for larger batteries. Or even EGO (Same parent as FLEX). @@TGC1775
Makes no since milwaukee sent alot of small youtubers the new Gen 3 2967 for review but didn't send one to you. I don't think milwaukee likes seeing them numbers and charts.
@@Dbj6988 It's simply because we say no to brands wanting to send us stuff as a channel rule. Other channels getting info and use out there is a good thing though, more the better
Yes we definitely needed a "bigger" grinder category. Obviously I use grinders a lot and after using one of DeWalt's first FleVolt grinders with a 9ah battery, I would never go back to 20v. The power was awesome!
Too bad the flexvolt grinders have motor issues, at least both of the ones I’ve had experience with.
The 60v flexvolt with a 9ah isnt' actually 9ah, it's 3ah because they have to change the relationship between the batteries.
@@teddly2277 power as in torque. I understand the ("20v"9ah/"60v"3ah). My dcg418 has far more torque than the older 20v grinder.
@@teddly2277any case where that matters the 15ah flexvolt exists
@@teddly2277it isn’t 3ah at 60v either, but if you can needlessly incorrect someone and spread misinformation, then I can, too, right?
As someone who doesn't usually run into runtime issues on my M18 tools, I'd love to see an even smaller/lighter ~3.0Ah pouch pack.
Agreed, Flex's 3.5Ah is a nice sweet spot
@@TorqueTestChannel I'd love DeWalt to do a 2P of the OG 1.7AH PS. Little taller, 3.4Ah, and some decent sauce.
The flex 3.5 overheated fast
Flex 3.5 on my impact is awesome. It doesn't warm up to bad run decking Screws. It does when running multiple timberlocks through.
That's why I love the DeWalt 1.7Ah PS battery. I don't need runtime, but it offers a TINY battery and a ton of power.
id imagine this new forge batter is a big upgrade for their chainsaw line of tools too, save a ton of weight but maintain the power and batery life potentally
The biggest issue with the Milwaukee chainsaws is high temperature shutdown. Those motors draw a lot of amperage from an 18v battery.
@@TimberTrainertheres a reason why Husqvarna and Stihl uses 36V batteries.
@@TimberTrainerthis exactly. Need higher voltage which milwaukee is probably gonna end up doing dual batteries
@@alexstromberg7696even there's over heats I returned mine after it kept over heating.
@@alexstromberg7696 or dewalts flex volts at 60
I always get a kick out of reading power tool marketing material, especially Milwaukee's. Thank you for the work that you do.
Marketing masters
Milwaukee really does have some fantastic looking marketing lol
I was using them as an example to a young coworker on how to spot BS marketing. Their's is fantastic, and results in sales, but is super easy to poke holes in and laugh at.
Ok if it is that easy give us some examples
@@wpintofg Why?
I watched the pipeline when these batteries were first announced and got excited but figured I wouldn't run out and buy any until ya'll ran them through a full test... Thank Ya'll!!!
This is perfect. I run the 3/4 impact all the time and my biggest issue is run time/diminished performance after the battery drops to two bars. A 12.0 would help that issue but holding up the already beefy impact plus the huge 12.0 is a recipe for soreness. As soon as I saw the forge announcement I was waiting for you guys to get your hands on it. Great job.
Yep. I used normal 5.0 in my trimmer and I got 6.0 and it does way better and seems to last alot longer.
@johnsmith-bo2cz I have a quick lock trimmer with a 3.0 lasts 30mns, weed eater/wacker lasts 15mns and the blower sucks less than 10mns on rabbit 🐇
so whata ya think? i run a 6.0 ho. upgrading to forge? idk maybe when my h.o die.
We’ve all been waiting for this! Thanks Torque, Test & Channel!!!
This is exactly what all of us were waiting to see the torque test Channel test the forge battery, with that being said what we're all waiting for is a forge 12.0 or even a 15.0 xc the Milwaukee 9 in Cut Off saw is an amazing tool that eats through batteries like crazy
Answering the real questions right here
To fix the 12Ah 3 bar issue, open the case, with a regulated power supply at 21v go directly to the + and - bypassing the PCB entirely and let it charge to 0 amps and let it sit to balance out. Mine has been good since. I always charge mine on a rapid charger and I've had it for 3-4 years at least (whenever they came out)
You can also just hook up a lithium ion smart charger, that works too. Pretty easy. Just connect the leads to the same.
Ive lost 2 so far to the 3 bar. I will try this!
@@Walkop "lithium ion smart charger," can you provide an example? I recently got into M18 (8aH with my string trimmer, two 12aH with the mower). Everything is new enough that it works great, however I do charge the mower batteries twice a week in summer and would like to avoid an issue next season. Thanks.
Can you explain? We hook up DC power supply at 21v and pull it off when it says 0 amps current? I have the 3 bar issue on an 8ah bat I connected it and it shows zero amps from the get go but only 3 bars showing. Maybe that's just depleted cells?
That isn't bypassing the PCB, it's in parallel with it
I really don’t want to know life without TTC! Thank you Guys!!!!
Wow today is a great day, both you and tools and stuff testing new major battery releases!
Speaking of which, this pack would imho be better off with new murata 21700 4ah tabless 21700 cells. It would have more capacity, better quality and similar if not better power level. They are using them in the new mx fuel packs and judging by the animation you shown here for the new level 5 upcoming packs.
Look forward to the Makita BL4040F battery video. Tools and Stuff did a nice overview.
👍
Before TTC came along, we all just kind of guessed and had opinions we spouted out as if they were facts. Thanks fellas.
Would love to see video focused on your test gear, test loads, and other test equipment. Discussing how you developed the testing processes, chose the equipment, maybe even a teardown and look inside the electronic loads..... with some discussion regarding how you chain them together... and the upside or downside of that setup
This opens up new questions!
First: lipo tend to die quick when ran hard. How often do i have to replace these!
Second: seeing how safe(not at all) my rc lipo's are. Will these burn my house down to?
Third: li-ion doesn't mind being shelved fully charged that much. Will these lipo batteries be dead when i need them if i leave them charged for a long time?
You should try testing the different chargers that these brands offer. I have a m18 supercharger, it seems to charge fast but at 250 dollars it would be nice to know if it was really worth the money i paid for it. I have also heard that these high speed chargers can damage your batteries, is that true too? I know dewalt offers these charger too so it might be worth testing.
The batteries will only take in a certain amount of amperes and it will be safe. Won't degrade lithium doing so. It's a great charger but for the price... Meh. It's the "simplest" way but a regulated power supply would be cheaper if you know what you're doing.
Yes, faster charging decrease lifespan. This is why my fancy Anker battery pack has a trickle charge mode.
@@TheTastefulThickness LifePo4 shows very little to no more ill effects compared to "slow" charging.
Fast discharge is going to have a significant impact however.
Li-Po is one chemistry that you'll also see ill effects from fast charging over time.
I do not recommend draining the battery and immediately putting it on the fast charger, certainly not taking it off immediately and discharging again. Of course there is safeties in place for thermal but heat is by far the biggest killer.
@@TheTastefulThickness I know there is plenty of articles saying it's bad to fast charge lithium. However when there's not a chemistry mentioned you can certainly disregard that information. I realize above I said "lithium" and that's my mistake. Tool batteries are LifePo4 and to my knowledge that is the only chemistry being used at this time. (For good reason)
1C charging hardly consider as fast charge 😅
I live in Alaska, I can say the Milwaukee batteries are champs in the cold. Funny thing is, if you use it and it bogs down, you can just keep pulling the trigger and the internal waste heat keeps slowly bringing the pack back to life as you use it.
what the?
We have a fleet of 2767 and XC 5 batteries. Biggest problem we have with them is that they rattle themselves to death over time and the battery gets so loose in the tool that you have to tape it in every time you change battery. Even in the Milwaukee-sourced promo material you showed in this video you can see the HO 12.0 bouncing around in the 3/4". Not really sure how Milwaukee solve this while maintaining backwards compatibility.
The info, in very specific and wide ranging gained here is invaluable.
Where else could we get real unbiased information on power tools specifically.
We’d be on the job still like “ can you tell the difference?” -- “ oh yea I think so, it sure looks cool”
Hehehe
Great stuff. 🥇
I usually take advantage of the kitted "special buy" tools/batteries from HD or Acme Tools. Looking forward to seeing if Forge comes in with some deals going into Black Friday or Christmas
As a professional homeowner, I'll still stick with my 5.0's given the opportunity. But I could certainly see how a Forge battery would be excellent with the already overweight framing nailer or a circular saw/sawzall up on a roof
I’m not moving to the Forge for at least 2 years. In 2023, I added five 6ah HO, two 3ah HO, and two 12ah HO.
And on top of that, a kit I bought this summer came with the old school 5.0 (ugh)
The old 5.0 are still great batteries on certain tools. As shown on the video, impacts, radios, fans, and some other tools don’t really benefit from the high outputs. I try to cycle my cheaper, weaker batteries and keep my high outputs “fresh” when I’m at home and extra batteries are on hand. I love the small, “weak” 2.0s for my drills and impacts. They die quick but charge quick too.
TH-cam in 2020: Wood chips and stop watches *TH-cam w/ TTC* Here's an entire dissertation on what this new thing can do measured a dozen ways.
Man, brands can't get away with anything now-days! Nervous marketing departments re-editing their claims as we speak.
I have to say, you guys really do a great job finding and communicating the performance interactions between tools and batteries. I really like to understand what is going on when I choose and use things. When I got my first battery powered tools- really not that long ago - it was all a black box to me. I've subsequently spent some time on the internet learning (as well a seeing real-life tool performance). I feel like I understand it all pretty well now, and I have to say that you were probably the number one resource in getting me there. Thanks!
I use LiPo’s in my rc cars. The issue is they swell and catch fire from time to time. I keep my lipos in a 50cal ammo box. If I had these batteries, I’d do the same.
Some amazingly good tests there that really help to cut through the marketing to the reality. I've got a pile of red batteries, but I have to confess to a little bit of desire to drop a Forge into my bag.
Your attention to detail and integrity makes your videos a pleasure to view. Thank you.
I think it would be cool for you guys to rank all the different brands batteries performance on the same tool with battery adapters.
Assuming battery adapters have 0% loss, which we're testing
Higher-end tools like Milwaukee M18 Fuel "talk" with their batteries to get optimal power out of them without overheating them. Most likely this functionality would break when adapting them. Might be an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't do with borrowed batteries.
Can you guys maybe just hook up the batteries to an elctronical load (sorry not sure for correct english terminology) so we can see how many watts each battery can actually supply?
@@crazy031089they do that already though. They just did that this video…
Amazing test, as usual!
I'm really curious how the new M18 Angle Grinder with a 6,0 Forge performs against say the Makita 40v grinder the the BL4040F battery.
Also...
Milwaukee needs to give us a new table saw that runs off 2x M18 batteries and option for corded. Run 10" blades and dado stacks, sturdy optional cart.
And where's the updated M18 Surge? Or M18 installation driver that another TH-camr discovered a patent for last year?
Yes. This. Where is the updated Gen 2 M18 Surge? I've been waiting over 5 years for an update. Lol
I do big demo jobs and this forged 6.0 is great! Specifically when you don’t get tired from a massive 12.0 , when you’re up 22’ feet in the air!
I have that saw and I run it with my 9 ah high outputs. I absolutely love it it's the best circular saw I've ever owned.
Great job on this.Milwaukee has indeed made an incredible new battery,offering an upgrade to it's consumers that is indeed,worth it..
Iv been using that very milwaukee saw for 3 years now. Its a beast. I have a Gen 2 that iv had for 7 or more, and theres a big difference.
And the gen 2 was a big difference before that.
Would love to see all of makitas 40v xgt F series batteries bl4080f,bl4050f and the new 4040f tested and maybe update all the rankings. especially interested in the hammer drills performance
I really appreciate you making this video, since I wanted to get another battery. Did not want to pay $250 for an 12.0 when I can get a newer forge battery that's a little more worth the price point
It would be nice to see a refrigerated testing too. I always keep my batteries inside and take them out in the cold. They never make it down to the frozen temp but they are definitely cooler than room temp after 15 mins
Battery technology keeps getting better. A couple of weeks ago, some Milwaukee fanboys told me their ten year old batteries are performing just as good as new ones. They are either super exaggerating how long they have been running their batteries or ignorant to the new technology that keeps coming. The modern battery tools are leaps and bounds better than they used to be.
Home depot has 8ah Forge and 12ah Forge together for $250 hackable atm (i.e. you buy the 12ah battery and add the 8ah as a free item)
Yup$110 for 8ah $13.75 per ah,$138 for 12ah,$11.50 per ah.
I own the Makita BL4080F, would you like me to send it to you guys? Also, I am going to get my hands on the new BL4040F. People are saying the cells in the 4040F can discharge 50-60A!!!
I've been patiently waiting for miluakee to step their game up and I can say km not disappointed. I've bled, red, for many years and will likely continue to. Hope they come out with some cool m12 batteries next. They're just more comfortable for what I do.
Insiders report that after they do a whole line up of forged batteries for m18 they are going to do forge m12
@afterlife-sama3205 hope it's not far in the future
Best tool channel by far. I will not own any of the brand name tools until they are at least 5 years old but every episode is still just as exciting as your first toolkit for Christmas.
My wall outlets handle 1500W all day, barely even get warm. Of course my house does have very thick gauge wiring and outlets that were made in the 60s. I’ve had to replace just one, took it apart to compare to modern outlets and the actual internal contacts on my old outlets were around twice the thickness of the new ones.
Many have already said this. Now it's my turn. I enjoy watching these vids even though I have no need for most of the tools measured. Huge respects for providing believable measured data to keep the big corporations honest. Or maybe I should say less deceitful. ;-)
I use the Milwaukee 3/4 impact with the 6.0 to do semi truck wheels daily. You cant beat it. Ive tried the 1in d handle from Milwaukee. The 3/4 is imo much better, its plenty strong enough and hammers many times faster which results in a faster tire removal as well as the weight difference. For semi tru6the 3/4 is the way to go
Thanks so much for doing this comparisons!!
And I love your Dyno graphs as well.
As always, great video, nicely thought out. Thank you!
I wonder how much the possibility of these bloating/swelling caused them to make a stronger case? Pouch cells like to do that with age.
The shape of it fits the circular saw perfectly.
Most anticipated video of the year!
Can you source the Makita Bl4040F? 21700 Murata VX40 cells, possibly "tabless"...
99.999999999999999% tabless ;)
New 4ah makita would be great to see
Best tool channel on TH-cam 💯
I can’t wait to see the forge battery paired with the new high torque impact wrench!!! That thing is already a beast!!! Plus this extra output would be great for power inverters and battery banks!!
Great test. Thanks for all the time and effort these tests must take. Seems like a great battery. I wonder, did you guys upgrade your hammer drill chart and standings using the 2904-20 with the Forge? I'd really like to see that and how it's standing would change. Thanks!
Good to see the forge are still at least backwards compatible. This Channle is wade ultimately made me buy into Milwaukee. Hope the new Gen 3 high torque beats dewalt. But you also turned my onto Astro for airtools.
Im using your videos as motivation to start tool testing again. I'm marjory out of practice. Thanks for continuing these testing and uploads while mastering the craft. You always pump out great videos bro.
Hey thanks man!
awesome video. exactly what i've been wondering! you talked me out of the forge, for now lol. good info! ive been running the 6.0 ho. if i did more grinding i would need the forge. i have noticed that grinding does whip it down quick.
I was at oreillys the other day and noticed they sell a few battery powered impact wrenchs one was $80 and the other was like $150 please test these i almost bought one just to have in the truck but i rather hear how it fares the torque test channel ❤ ur content stay safe
I love your videos! The tech specs are awesome and your videos are easy to understand and well laid out.
Milwaukee is always looking to improve, and this proves they aren’t lying just for marketing. thanks for making this video!
I'm surprised it didn't make nearly any more power on the 2767. That flex pack jumping it to 24v must have really been the key and now I'm surprised it took it happily
Putting 24V into an M18 is like forcing nitrous into a car that wasn't designed for it, it can work - you just cross your fingers. But big results. The FORGE is like bigger injectors, if the thing wasn't already hungry for more fuel it's not going to need it all that much.
I cooked my 9.0HD using it to establish an edge between the sidewalk and my lawn with the Quick-Lok edger (not the string trimmer). I just picked up a 12.0 Forge and look forward to using it in the future. I would advise anyone buying a 12.0 Forge to double check the lable if picking it up at the will call desk, as the staff seem to think there's no difference between the HD and the Forge and handed me the wrong one before I made them go back and find the Forge.
Can't wait to see the 12.0 forge. Also - wish Milwaukee would make a battery conditioner/balancer. I'd even be willing to have it as a separate item not intended to replace chargers just to use when a battery gives the dreaded 3 bar full charge. It would also be great to have a storage mode where it would charge batteries to a point for longer term storage for those of us that aren't daily warriors. By the way none of my 9.0's have had any problems - all doing great and they are 5+ years old. I've had one 12.0 do the 3 bar full charge but that is an expensive battery to crap out long before it should.
Please test the newly released 4ah Makita XGT High Output battery BL4040F.
+1
I wonder how the new batteries would do on their M18 shop vac line......that seems like an ideal use case, even moreso than the big impacts and saws
Yeah the vacuums drain the batteries really fast
The forge battery and new high torque impact is a beast. Got mine yesterday
The issue I see is when the voltage doesn't droop as the current raises the wattage increases. The new battery will provide power that an old tool wasn't designed to have available.
Mix that with a heavy hand or sticky finger and you're left with something smoking.
Fantastic testing! Great info you provide. Subscribed, baby! 🤩🙌
I've owned 1 dewalt product in my life, it cost me $375 for a hammer drill, this when they first came out back in (I beleive was in 98 or 97) and that thing failed miserably, i took it back to homedepot 5 times before the denied my exchange, they called the cops on me, i explained the situation to the cops, and cops told them: we can't trespass him when he's got a receipt and an item to return and just because you feel like it, NO, they finally returned me my money back and i never, ever, evaaaa bought a dewalt product again, I'm gonna spend my money on inferior product, no matter how much they've improved , I like pound for pound, that means ryobi, I'm no longer a tradesman and sometimes I use power tools. They last me years.
I’d love to see a forge m12 with some small tools like drills and saws updated. Gen 2 m12 rotary hammer and gen 2 hackzall would be great. I’m sure most of us would love to see Gen 3 impacts too but then that would be getting greedy.
My go to is the M 12 impact with the 3.0. It fits nicely in my toolbelt and does everything I wanted to do but whenever I switch over to the M 18 by notice how much faster it is. I would definitely pay to give the M 12 some more juice.
@@johnschroeder1912 I’m a commercial electrician and have been running a fuel m12 impact for 9 years, any guy I’ve convinced to give one a try has absolutely love it and bought one. Biggest screw we tend to use is a #10 x 1-1/4” pan head and they are fantastic, a lot of time on our sites we are running around a lot and getting into awkward spaces on ladders having a small light impact always on you is awesome. If I was running 5 inch lag bolts it wouldn’t be my impact of choice but for our work it’s awesome. Any higher torque bolted connections we do should probably be torqued to a spec with a wrench anyways. I do still have an 18 fuel impact but it usually sits at home in my tool chest.
yep...they always break when used on Impact tools.
Thanks for another great video, and all the work you do to make this content. You are the rainbows and gumdrops. And a sweet, sweet fizzy soda. :)
Battery comparison is the best!!
I’m currently manually rebalancing my HD 12.0 with a bank of resistors and a fan hooked up to a breadboard lol.
It’s and easy way to fix the dreaded 3 bar max charge but it takes a while.
I like this new Forge pack though, I’m glad I didn’t buy more HDs recently.
Finally ~14:25 I heard "beans"
I am still glad that I own Ryobi tools and that I don't have to worry too much about all these batteries. But if I ever do run into the need to have a 1-in electric impact then I guess I have to get a forge battery to make good use of it for a short period of time unless I get HD 12.0.... anyways I'm going to go and proceed to put a four amp hour battery in my saw and fix some things.
Video request!
I'm a climbing route builder looking for a new sds rotary hammer. I'd love to see you guys go over some of the available options. Weight, battery life and drilling speed are all factors I'm interested in. You've got a video on compact ones from last year, but those are all too small for our use case. Just not enough beans. Help me see the beans
In germany this so good battery costs double of a 8ah High Output! I'm so sad about that
Btw, the reason there's less voltage drop under load, if I had to guess, would primarily be due to the design of the tabs in each cell, sort of the path that electricity flows in and out. Pouch batteries can have multiple tabs on each electrode, and wider ones at that. Cylindrical batteries only have two tabs, one on each electrode, and under a high load this is a major bottleneck. This will be a bad analogy but I'll make it anyways, say each battery is a rectangular parking lot. The cylindrical battery holds 1000 cars and has two entrance/exits on opposite corners of the lot. The pouch battery holds 500 cars but there's an entrance/exit every 50 yards. If you need to get as many cars out as quickly as you can, the cylindrical battery is going to hit a bottleneck right away. The pouch battery, even though there are fewer cars in the lot, will be able to move more cars out faster. That was a horrible analogy but w/e. Assume people know how to drive in this situation
tabless 21700 cells just rolling out!
My favorite tool channel! Would love to see if the Forge brings any more beans to the mid-torque…or are you waiting until there are more forge options to test that?
Great channel great content. Been waiting for this one and you did it well. Thanks 👍👍💪💪
I don't know if you get them across the pond, but in the UK we have two options for brushless Milwaukee grinders. There's the "Fuel" (with various different switch options and variable speed) and the newer non-Fuel "Brushless" which is rated at a much higher RPM. Plus the brushed one which we can safely ignore.
They sell for about the same amount of money, it would be really interesting to see if the higher RPM one is better for certain applications than the Fuel.
We do have them
Since it is a LiPO pouch, they will eventually swell up and fail, either slowly or catastrophically. I would still prefer to use battery packs with 18650 LiIon cells instead, they are more forgiving of storage conditions with regards to storage voltage.
18650 specifically or 21700’s or just cylindrical cell batteries
Good to see others doing pouch style batteries. At the size, the DeWalt 5Ah PS battery doesn't make sense to me as a home gamer. The 1.7 is perfect as it offers high power in a tiny package, and runtime is never an issue for me. But the 5Ah seems like a weird middle ground.
Throw a wire wheel on that grinder and see how long it runs.
I determined that it uses an amp hour per minute.
Grinding and cutoff wheels, its awesome.
Wish Milwaukee would make a plug in adapter for this reason.
Awesome review. My son and I watch your show all the time. (He's eight) While watching this he asked are they going to test table saws? I told him I'd ask. He wants to know which cordless table saw brings the "beans". Lol
We are Milwaukee boys. Keep up the good work.
when the battery costs just as much as the tool 😮💨
Gotta find deals plus the tools don't require 2 batteries to function...
Im so glad for channels like TTC and PF, the new battery seems promising if you need more beans - I'm glad I dont need it yet.
it's crazy how everyone skips over the 3/4" impact in all of these reviews. I have one and it's great, considering the forge battery vs the 6.0 HO for mine.
Only the anvil is different from the 1/2" impact, so not much a battery can do to the 3/4" that it cant do for the 1/2" many more people own.
This is exciting to see. I have a feeling the new Forge coming next year will be an even more dramatic jump. Can’t wait!
My 8AH High Output I bought in spring of ‘22 began suffering from the three bar max issue November of last year. I bought two 12AH High Output in February of this year and one began having the same issue by June. Do you know, can I send these back to Milwaukee to either repair or replace?
Yes. They're still under warranty.
Good stuff! Have you considered doing a video on best practices for batteries? I'm betting y'all could make a good video on that, dispelling myths, etc. Thanks!
Great review love your channel, Thank you. Question, shouldn't the working torque and max torque beans also changed since it did hit harder in those times, for an overall better score? From the beans I see by putting the video on pause at 5sec and 10 sec of testing, I think it beat the Ingersoll Rang in working torque and max torque but not the 15 sec TQ.
I wish they would use these to supercharge small tools. Like imagine a ratchet that’s actually the size of a normal ratchet or even if it’s still big imagine it actually putting out respectable power. Or a tiny impact or replacing the m12 lineup entirely.
Interesting, so it's actually about what they claimed with power levels near 12ah in most cases. It will be interesting to see how it's priced and the actual charge time with the new fast charger.
Agreed, you should give it a shot! Interested in what it does in other drills, it didn't seem consistent on the drill but that thing just pisses out heat so maybe we got it hot
@@TorqueTestChannel Maybe your testing killed it lol, I plan on getting one when they are available.
@@Tools-Tested I wouldn't rule it out. Might be worth us buying another Gen 4 that hasn't seen 24V in the past :D
@@TorqueTestChannel Lol yep, would be interesting to see if the data is different compared to the old one.
Bunch a good data here folks. Good job TTC
Awesome video! That 6AH LiPo is bad azz!
More greatness from TTC. I would very much like to see some 10.8v comparisons in drill drivers and impact drivers. I had got a metabo set for an older family member a couple of years ago and its a real beaut to use. Weighs a kilo and is nice and handy but will drive 3" screws. Cheers guys! J