Correction, the M12 BMS is on the tool (we didn't wire these things). With all the ideas about juicing up custom battery packs, I would suggest sticking with M18's (or your platform's equivalent) to do so. You could of course build a lithium polymer stack capable of 500 amps, but if the M12 tool's only requesting 15, it's only going to get 15. A clean straight never dropping off delivery of 15, but never any extra. 18 volt tools on the other hand range quite a bit in peak current requests. Based on this testing it would appear the 2.5 HO would be more useful than assumed, closer to a 6 cell pack. We just had our eyes on maxing things out!
You need to test with high amp tool like the 90° die grinder even with a 6.0 the thing alway cut out and drain battery like no other Or try the circular saw and chainsaw it's where the new battery will shine
The comment about the imitation battery having a dodgy BMS is incorrect, the M12 BMS is located in the tool. The battery packs themselves contain no active circuitry, and any extra performance eeked out of a tool is due to lower internal cell resistance.
When I first got my M12 ratchet I had troubles with the battery falling out I even had tape across it to make sure it would not do that again and then I switched to an aftermarket battery I've never had one fall out since
To me that sounds like you're keeping the batteries cool. ABS is pretty soft when barely warm (below boiling point). Try leaving a pack sit in the sun for a few hours, then test that latch.
Thanks for letting me know that my M12 tools don't need the new XC5. I also appreciate knowing the battery case is the real upgrade here and not necessarily the implied 'more beans'. Much respect sir.
I was thinking the same thing. I purchased the 2.5 High Output and noticed absolutely no difference. I'll save my money & stick with the XC Batteries. I have tons of milwaukee tools but they seem to be going in a different with their recent issue with their high torque half inch impact wrench (Rigid is also suing Milwaukee) Most of the high torque impact wrenches that came out recently are all stronger than Milwaukee's 2760-20 gun. However, the 2760-20 is extremely reliable & durable until recently.
I knew this video was coming and I’ve been so excited to see it. However, I thought there would be a “High output” video including the HO 2.5 as well. That’s what the big story is in my opinion. XC performance in a CP pack, whats not to love? I bought the HO 2.5’s as soon as they hit my Home Depot and they most definitely pack a punch like the bigger batteries do. I really hope you’ll be doing a video comparing the HO2.5 to the XC6.0 soon
This was my thought, one thing i noticed from going from 18650 6.0 batteries to smaller 2170 4.0 batteries is that i get more peak power out of the smaller 2170 pack but the larger 6.0 pack will last longer for light jobs (less for heavy jobs, as it works harder/longer to do the same work)
Very cool. I almost exclusively run "Built" battery packs on my M12 tools now. 9 cell 18650 with 6.0ah and 7.5ah ratings(2000mah/2500mah cells) . There is a notable difference in power as there is virtually no voltage drop having so many cells share the load.
@@vincentrodrigues7533 You just buy an empty battery shell off ebay or aliexpress, and solder or spot weld bars to the cells, and assemble into the shell.
Great Video! You are correct the M12 BMS is on the tool. Also the M18 overdischarge protection is in the tool too, and not on the battery. I've repaired a fair bit of Milwaukee stuff.
I wish you tested the HO CP 2.5 vs a standard XC battery. I would be interested to see if a CP 2.5 would make the same max torque as an XC battery. We already know the XC batteries give a bit more max torque than the current CP batteries but I wonder if the smaller CP 2.5 can give us the 250 ftlbs in a smaller form factor.
the current hd promotion has a 2 pack of 6.0 x.c batts with a free tool , so if you return. the to the 2 pack of xc 6.0 batteries costs about 100 bucks
I saw the XC3.0/6.0 battery only combo at my local HD (in Hawaii) at $97. I was really tempted but I don’t currently need any batteries. That price almost got me to bite lol
i looked it up, and there's no reasons i could find not to other than maybe balancing. if cells are discharging at different rates like a 21700 with 5000mah would compared to a 18650 with 3000mah, their voltage drop would happen at different times and stress each other out. im not an engineer though so maybe im wrong and it should work perfectly
I think the tools this is going to have the greatest affect on are likely the chainsaw, bandsaw, sawzall, and the cutoff tool. All of these tools in my experience do well when used properly but always suffer a little bit when I try to push them. I’d think something like this would allow me to push them just a little harder making me just that much happier with them.
Funny information, the Milwaukee M12 can be used to power a Traxxas Bandit VXL up to like 50 mph in my experience, but I am under geared for off-road use. I use the little 3 cell unit, as it fits in the car. My speed controller gets really hot, and so does the battery, however, I have no cooling. Good for about 20 minutes of use before a recharge, for $20 it sure beats the $200 Traxxas batteries.
@@johncoops6897 only sometimes they run much nicer in the snow. $20 is a lot better than the $200 for the traxxas batteries, plus the $100 dollar charger.
Since when did M12 batteries fall out randomly? All of us in our diesel shop use them literally every day and never seen or even thought of this happening. Heck, I have trouble removing them sometimes.
I think the problem you're running into here is that there's going to be a limit to The current that the motor will draw no matter how much available current there is. The ESC can also be limiting factor. The tools you're testing are probably built specifically to make maximum power with the largest battery that they had at the time and they just simply can't take advantage of the additional output. 25% theoretical additional output only works if the tool can actually take advantage of it
He's tested dozens of different tools with dozens of batteries. The increase from HIgh Output batteries can be viewed across the board. This is the first time high output batteries are producing less power. A prime example would be the impact drivers, drills and impact wrenches all performing better with the High Output CP3.0Ah battery, over the XC 5.0Ah battery. The difference being the 21700 cells. In this case, they didn't increase the cell size and that's why we have these results. You have a battery marked "HO" failing to produce power and a generic monstrosity that was built in a basement that is producing more power. Why? Because of the bigger batteries. It's like he said, but it remains to be seen if it's true or not yet. It's possible that the battery can send more power to tools like the circular saw, maybe the rotary hammer? But typically, with every single tool ever tested on this channel, there is an increase with HO batteries, not a decrease. That's including impact wrenches and drivers. So why now would we see a decrease or a non increase all of the sudden, with the same exact drills. Impacts. It doesn't follow suit with what we've seen and experienced with batteries and tools so far. The flop here, is that the batteries used, with their lower capacity only have the ability to match the 6.0Ah or beat it out slightly. Is it a better battery? Sure. It has a lower capacity and it produces the same power, if not slightly more than the 6.0Ah. Will all the guys who are purchasing 3 to 5 of these batteries see any benefit over the Six 6.0Ah's that they already own? I highly doubt it. All they did was waste money. People have been posting pictures of their 5.0Ah HOs arriving in the mail on Reddit non stop. Some of these dudes already had some 15+ M12 batteries. Just added another 5+... and for what? A battery that can MAYBE draw more power from 1 or 2 tools that 80% of users might not ever use, or don't own those tools at all.
@@SixSnax Well there's the benefit of lighter weight... but unless you're a geriatric I guess that doesn't matter much. The cells themselves are also higher quality so they should handle more charge cycles. I'm also left curious about their comparative performance in hot and cold weather. Regardless yeah it's just a little better all around, and the case is the only thing leaping forward. I'm much more impressed with Flex and Dewalt with the Lithium stacks.
I bought a pair of the m12 5ah and 2.5ah for a gen2 drill impact set. The drill has allways been a puss but with the 5ah battery it comes to life. Enough so that my eyes were as big as saucers when testing against the old 6ah batts.
Good to heard they're trying something to strengthen the tabs. I have an older XC battery that I've replaced the case of twice and still the tabs broke. Great info and cool videos, thanks to the Torque Test Channel Team
Like you said the battery is supplying the amperage that is being requested so even hooking it up to a car battery won't make a difference, you want an increase in voltage not amps, I just put a matco 16v battery on my Milwaukee right angle and it's insane, it took alot of work though, the shape of the battery was the same but the polarity was reversed and I had to do some hackery to make the battery tabs lock in properly, totally worth it though
Just to clarify with brushless motors in RC cars you increase voltage when you want to increase rpm, the matco 16v is actually 4 18650 (though it looks like it's was designed to have 5) in series as Opposed to the Milwaukees 3, so about a 30 percent increase in voltage
The M12 cells appear to connect directly to the tool through a fusible link. The main protection appears to be a thermistor in the pack that connects to the tool. If a 6 cell pack is converted to three 21700 cells and the connections are the same the pack might be safe to use. The standard capacity of 21700 cells is 5.0 Ah so the pack would not be expected to give longer runtime than the new 5.0 Ah High Output pack.
TTC! Thank you so much for the video, this helps me understand what I bought! I really wish I had watched before, but I thankfully didn’t make a mistake!
I think the HO will make the most difference in the Gen3 Fuel drill, which really bogs down before cutting out, or the Fuel circular saw as demonstrated in their Pipeline demo. It may also have an advantage when partially discharged.
Yep, it will also yield more capacity under load. My 20S filled CP2.0 puts put slightly more current than an xc6.0 but lasts about the same as a CP3.0 under load, just without bogging down.
@@procrastinator1842 5.0 didn't yield any real capacity gains over the 4.0 (cuts per Ah, with the M12 circular saw) at Milwaukee's own pipeline event. It was 46.8 (5.0) vs 46.6 (4.0). It would likely show some gains over the 6.0 considering the sustained load of a circular saw, but Milwaukee still chose to not market against the 6.0 for a reason, because it would've put a damper on the marketing hype. As we basically saw in this video. CP 3.0 is the real loser vs CP 2.0/2.5, with the 2.5 being the most promising considering you need all the amps you can get when you have a CP-style pack with a 1P array of cells. But the 4.0/5.0/6.0 are firmly into the land of diminishing returns at this point. And there's not much sense in spending $120 on a 5.0 when 6.0s are so easily had for $55 with Home Depot hacks right now. The real improvement should be with the battery casement/tabs. But why do we need entirely new SKUs centered around marketing hype to address one of the M12 platform's biggest flaws? These types of improvements need to be made across the board. And as long as the 2.0/4.0 are the most commonly shipped batteries in kits it's always going to be a rather large problem for the end user. Absolutely bone-headed move on Milwaukee's part if they don't eventually make any updates there, and it's probably a safe bet they won't do anything until 2.5/5.0 sales fall off.
But then you don't have the cells. In the handle. It's not a good idea. To mix diffent cell types so you if you went pouch cells you would have a much lower capacity.
all you have to do is cut a sliver of 3/4" black shrink wrap about 3/8 wide and fold it in half between the battery (red part) and the clip. It puts just the right amount of pressure but you can still squeeze it tightly to remove the battery. Try it. It works perfectly.
With the HO’s coming out, the XC’s have dropped in price on eBay. XC 6.0Ah run about $64 for 2. I purchased knock off Bosch 12v. Nice to know I can replace with better 18650’s. I started with Bosch and they announced they were going to discontinue and didn’t have a large selection of tools. I then switched to Milwaukee, get it all on sale. Now I wish I went with Ryobi. I’m not a contractor. I do house work, at my siblings and mothers home. Once in a while I get handyman jobs, so the Ryobi line would have been just fine and far less expensive.
I've never had a battery fall out of any of my 4 impacts, either of my 2 drills, any of my 3 ratchets. I've been running these tools from 3 to just over 6 years. I do take better care of my tools than the other technicians I know, but I also run the piss out of most of them. Full disclosure, I did have the screws strip out of the plastic on both of my original 6+ year old 5.0Ah 18 volt batteries. I found them that way after someone else borrowed them though, and "no one" had "seen what happened". I pulled them barely open, ran a bead of black or red The Right Stuff, let them sit overnight, and never had a problem again. Those 2 batteries have lost some of their useable work cycle after a charge, but oddly enough are still stronger on a full charge than my newer 4.0Ah batteries. None of them are high output, as I rarely found myself wanting for power with the originals, and preferred a longer period between charges. That said, if I'd known the 4.0 power performance would have been lower, I'd have dished out the extra dough for more 5.0s and maybe a single larger battery. Saw the TTC video on that subject after the fact. But the thing I most often run into trouble on is crank pulleys/balancers, and I have a set of weighted sockets that remove them like butter. My fuel 1/4" hex driver impact does sometimes fall short, but I'm running it as a screwdriver, 1/4", 3/8", and small 1/2" impact all in one. I was originally going to get a 3/8" impact and socket sets as well, but it performed so far above my expectations that I decided it was nowhere near worth the money. I only break maybe 2 to 5 3/8" and 1/2" square drive adapters combined every year, which is miraculous in my mind.
I appreciate mention of the various non-power aspects here (plastics). Now that it's been 6 most, watch prices! I'm currently seeing 6.0s for less than what 4.0s cost, and AMZ offering the 5.0 for well under retail. YMMV.
Might not seen exciting at face value but I'm glad they're paying attention to the case design itself since especially the m12 could use some work, thanks for the video
Battery falling out? Never heard about that one. They can require some effort to remove at times. Apparently there is some of those Amazon batteries that do not fit as secure.
I have m12 and m18 tools. I bought m12 to use where I new I didn't need as much power or battery life but needed the smaller package of the CP3.0 to fit in tight spots such as my screw gun, drill, angle drill and 3/8" ratchet but I do have an M18 1/2" drill also. My 3/8" and 1/2" mid torque impacts are M18. I tried to fit the tool to how I would normally use it and have been happy with what I have purchased. Impacts, ratchet and drills are used daily with the rest of them at the very least once a week and have had no battery clip problems but the drill chucks suck. I intend to replace the chucks with Jacobs chucks with hopes they are still as good as the old days.
I’ve had two 6.0 m12 battery’s die within a year. And ALL of the 4.0’s have lived and charge with zero issues. I’ve thought about customizing my own battery with 21700. Edit: the price of the HO m12 is extremely over priced in my opinion.
Got the 5ah and 2.5 ah bundle and while removing a injector off my buddies vw van the smallest bit of old fuel fell on the back of the battery and completely cleaned off the Milwaukee logo and the high output logo :( you have been warned lol. Still works a treat tho
I haven’t had any fall out either although they don’t fit very snug in my string trimmer. Doesn’t matter if I’m using a 5.0 a 6.0 or a 8.0 they all have a little play which is annoying and a real shame considering the amount of money Red charges.
Mine have only fallen out sometimes when the tool is dropped. Noticed the other day, 1 2.0 battery has the top cap tabs broken but hasn't come off yet. All the black tabs still good. I'm in automotive & usually dropped from waist height
Im interested to know if the ratchets get any extra break away beans from the ho's? Sounds like they will be better for wrenching on any ways. Love the channel, thanks n keep bringing them beans!
Molicel P42A would be an ideal choice for a DIY 21700 battery pack, very comparable to the Samsung 30T but higher capacity . Also Molicel is one of the only manufacturers that sells grade A cells directly to the authorized distributors online , unlike everything else, Samsung, LG, and all the major players send their bare unprotected cells directly to the battery pack contracts so the ones we see for sale at DIY level are often slightly lower B grade cells, aged inventory or leftovers from finished contracts.
Great test, in practical use, I've found my M12 impacts (driver and wrenches) feel strong with the 4.0 or 6.0, rather than my 1.5 and 2.0.. (I have some right angle M12 3.0 batteries, but use them for lights) I do not have a new HOXC5.0 battery. Was just about to buy a pair of new XC6's. BUT ....... Since the Kobalt RA impact performed very well with it's better beans battery... I would have liked to seen the M12 RA impacts in on this testing. That's the one I noticed the most liking the 6.0 when knocking off brake caliber bolts on my jeeps and 1ton Ram. So now you got me wondering about the new HOxc5.0. I own both the 1/2 and 3/8 for what ever reason, my OCD maybe. Would love to see that. Do you have any M12 3.0 Batteries? Be interested to see where they stack up to the little 1.5/2.0/3.0 VS Right angles 3.0/XC4.0/XC6.0 and now HOxc5.0 I'm a new view, new subscriber, been binging your test vids this weekend, great work, tnx! (But boring the heck out of the wifey, need a shop dog or cat, that usually keeps my better half interested, shop dog/cat cameos) (Edit : Also noticed the same thing in my M18 impacts wrenches. Working on large hardware / suspension parts, if its not breaking loose, and I have a m18 5.0 in there, get an HOxc6.0 or HOxc8.0, and there are extra beans to crack the rusted bolt / nut free. )
I have a old ryobi drill hp412 (lead acid battery tech guys were throwing it out because the battery shit out) rebuilt the battery 3s2p 46amp output pack using Samsung 15m cells, my huge brother who's a welder that handles power tools all day can't even stop the chuck with his hands.
Only had 1 issue with a 4.0 battery but I'm pretty sure the sawzall shook it out from my abuse so pilot error perhaps. Otherwise a freaking excellent tool line. My m18s stay in the box now days
Same here. M12 is amazing and all most people need most of the time. I still have m18 but try my best to stick to m12 if it makes sense. Im more into compact tools so i only go for m18 if i really need battery life badly without wanting to swap batteries or if for some rare reason i want or need more power(like a leaf blower or multitool kinda or a cement sds drill with chipping mode or obvious a grinder.) I treat my m18 as if its mx line. I dont like bigger tools most often cuz it sucks climbing on stair, roofs and attics and storing in a work vehicle
Huge Thanks! Munro strips packs, TTC puts them to sweat and gives us real numbers! No need to de-cord my vacuum today but my lawn mower getting batteries today!
The added storage capacity should also be considered. You could argue it's the more important metric because the tool will last longer before needing a batt swap. I know that with my vape mods, my Sony 21700 (VTC6) is 4200mAh while my Sony 18650 (VTC6) is only 3000mAh. That's a 40% increase.
I would like to see a M12 homebuild pack with Molicel INR21700-P50B 5000mAh - 50A This would be so awesome. These should be a set of killer batteries....
It did make 25% improvement, but only against the old purely in handle battery pack. So they may be misleading with that statement, but if you compare against something you're not expecting them to compare against.. it's technically true.
@@legros731 It's hard to know what the heck they're comparing to whenever they makes silly claims like 5x longer life.. 5x of what? It's basically just marketing exaggeration that's pretty hard to actually believe.
@@natesewell9402 there no 5x can you at least know what you are arguing clown It's 25% more power and 25% cooler but a don't care about there claim there better quality cell inside and it's all that matter the cell in the 6.0 and 3.0 have a reputation of not being good battery
@@legros731 that's a common claim on other products such as drill bits, it was an example not a direct counter to the 25% claim here which is also misleading
@@natesewell9402 look the 6.0 got 15amp cell and the new 5.0 got 25amp cell so the 25% claim is pretty conservative 25% more that 15 is 18.75 and same for the temp claim if the tool only need 12amp the 25amp battery will stay cooler But it all in theory and real world testing can be deceiving like we just found in this video if the tool only use 10amp going to a 25amp battery will not improve performance but a bigger battery with more density will sag less in the 15 second test and get better number in the last 5 second exactly like the 21700 custom pack did with a more constant voltage it gain on top where the other battery are sagging in voltage Basic Ohm law at work 25amp at 12 volt = 300w 25amp at 10volt =250watt And the new battery can be pushed to 30amp so 30x12= 360watt The 6.0 battery is rated at 15amp and can be push to 20 for short periods so if you do the math even at full charge the battery is still 20amp x 12 volt= 240watt So the new 5.0battery can deliver 120watt more that the old 6.0 So the 25% is not bogus this test prove absolutely nothing about the battery it just show that the stubby don't use that much amp And I am assuming Milwaukee is coming with a new stubby to compete against the new dewalt that will take advantage of the ho battery
21700 and 18650 cells are just a size aspect ratio the larger cell risks higher heat however less metal casing means lower weight. The real change would be the pouch cell but it is just plastic and is not great at high power due to internal heat issues so great for tech but not sure about power tools. You don not want to risk the pouch rupturing in to a ball of fire. In all reality batteries have not have any major improvements in a long time, you have LiPO and all kinds of other changes but they are mostly minor or make improvements to fit more battery in to a given space things of that nature.
@@TorqueTestChannel Perhaps a fraken12? I would think IPM would have to increase 2 or 3 fold and also it would murder battery life, but a 400+ftlb M12 impact would be amazing.
I'd like to see one of these tested on the non high speed fuel ratchet. It seems to have taken advantage of larger cells in the past I'm curious to see it now.
There is no BMS on the M12 platform at all , tool or charger . The tool has acces to the power treminals and the thermistor , for checking the temperature of the pack . The charger has acces to the individual cells or pair of cells ( depending on the form factor of the battey ) but , and this is a big one , pun intendet , it¨s trough a one kilohm resistor , so the charger cannot do cell balance , only cell voltage monitoring , it can only reject battery packs that have a difference something like 0.6 - 0.7 volts . There are no other electronics inside the battery pack , exept for the said thermistor . Because all cells are different to eachother it´s unavoidable that given enough charge discharge cycles you will get the dreaded red green blinking lights , you toss your battery in the efit bucket and go buy a new one . One of the early signs of an unbalanced pack is that it no longer charges to full capacity , the carger only charges untill the first cell or pair of cells got to 4.2 volts . BUT when you check your overall voltage in the battery you discover that you are only 3/4 full . Bummer . Recenly our host at TTC has complained about a M18 big bucks battery , wich leads me to beleive that the M18 battery platform is the same , I E no balanced charging . Battery bussiness is BIG , ain¨t that right Milwaukee ? It has to be , if you make your own battery pack and pay at RETAIL price for the cells , case and " electronics " it will cost you half the price . Me , I have a balanced charger left from my RC days , and when I get a battery that no longer charges to full or has the red - green blinky blinky , i open the battery chage it on the balanced charger , test the internal resistence and the capacity of the cells , to see if I really have a gonner , then voila , I´m good for another 6 - 12 months . My usage case is verry intensive , each week i mount thousants of mainly 8 and 10 mm bolts into high metallic structures . So yeah , in the menu we have a hot supper daily .
how about slapping a rc hobby lipo onto it. they are designed for extreme loads. a 4ah 3s pack with 80..120C can handle 300amps with ease. lipo might have a lower voltage tho, might try LiHV batteries instead.
Where's a tool seems to have reached it power "limit" on the control board, it would be interesting to see power over the life of the charge between the XC and the HO. It's possible they derived there "25%" figure at a particular charge point. Having higher peak current could also mean better current at lower charges
I’ve heard that the regular 6 amp batteries are better than the high output 5 amp. I heard Milwaukee is coming out with stacked lithium batteries next year. I’ve actually never had a battery fail out. The 6 amp battery is kind of hard to get out.
The 5.0 HO batteries might make more difference on saws. But I would like to see what the 2.5HO can do on an impact driver. Should be able to come close to the 6.0
Would love to see that. Using a 2.0 battery on my m12 saw stalls at virtually any resistance on a 2x4 with it at very slow cutting speeds. While the 4.0 is much better, it really could still use a boost in current capabilities.
@@upon1772 im an auto tech. my buddy is a carpenter. he kept complaining about the saws stalling. i thought it was a "feature" like so there is no kickback. i didnt know it was due to lack of power. ty
I pretty much abandoned the M12 line because of the batteries being so fragile and annoying to remove. The stubby 3/8 was the only tool keeping me tied down, until the dewalt atomic 3/8 came out. I hope to never be tempted by the M12 stuff ever again.
Would it be possible to have three 18650’s and 3 21700 cells together in a pack to really crank up the amps? Maybe add a few diodes to keep the current on track?
That's unfortunate but not surprising. I was hoping these batteries would make some actual difference. The M12 fuel roto hammer can get the job done, but definitely could use some extra power
Someone needs to make a milwaukee impact with rc car brishless motors and esc up.to 6s. This way you can put a lipo battery of what ever cell you want and these little brushless motors are insane. 6s would be 25.2v
I've had no issues with dropping batteries out of my milwaukee tools but my 3/8 fuel impact with the 4.0 batteries has consistently had issues with battery errors. The small contact on the left side of the battery (as you hold the tool) gets bent in and loses contact with the tool which kills the power and flashes the battery light, which in some situations is extremely frustrating. After comparing my 5 year old tool to a new one I came to the conclusion that my tool was simply worn out after 5 years of what my Mac dealer described as "hard use" and I replaced it today, but it was disappointing to do so as otherwise the tool functioned perfectly. I feel like the design of the battery tabs is lacking and could easily be improved.
My m12 batteries fall out all the time, but has nothing to do with the size. It has everything to do with the little clip edges are typically rounded off from new, instead of squared edges to catch the tool.
Thanks for that. I have never had any issues at all with batteries falling out, apparently never had a battery with that defect. Is it a wear issue over time or directly from the manufacturer?
Lol never happened to my or any of my coworker and we use them every day and mine are over 2 year old The only time the battery eject the tool is on my rover light when it fall from like 5 feet high
TTC! I’ve been thinking about making a custom “stacked” battery. Basically fitting 5AH worth of power into possibly a 2.0 case but from polymer cells. Similar to dewalt but for Milwaukee. Would that be something you guys would be interested in?
@@TorqueTestChannel yes! I might attempt m12 in the future but due to the shape of the housing, m18 is the best case, plus power gains would be considerably more significant/noticeable. I’ll shoot an email over!
I would suggest not using rc car styled pouch cells. You'll have to find the correct ones and also learn how to keep them from over heating but in theory it's a good idea
@@kentuckybeardsman over heating? They have far lower internal resistance usually. They wouldn't overheat anymore than a normal 18650. Problem is they aren't very energy dense so it would be Hard to fit a higher capacity in a drill pack even factoring in the round vs square cell shape that leaves gaps in the pack.
@@randybobandy9828 Ive been running nitro and elec rc for well over a decade and using pouch cell batterys for many many years. They will get hot my friend. This is coming from experience
Hey man was wondering if you could recommend to me what you think is best, I’m looking for a compact(mainly smallest I can get size & weights) to remove lug nuts from a F150 TQ 135Ft lbs and my wife’s car is TQ at 100ft lb. I’m Not invested into any battery system yet but was looking at Milwaukee, Dewalt etc. I purchased your PDF trying to do my own research but I’m confused with the TQ , I thought a non rusted bolt Tq at 135ft lbs A 200-250ft lb tq gun would zip it off but I can see now that’s not the case … Anyways I Appreciate your time !
Should try and run a stubby 1/2" vs the stubby 3/8" . I have both and it feels like the 1/2" spins slower but hits harder. My 3/8 is my good old go to . But my newer 1/2" is starting to shine on bigger stuff.
Correction, the M12 BMS is on the tool (we didn't wire these things). With all the ideas about juicing up custom battery packs, I would suggest sticking with M18's (or your platform's equivalent) to do so. You could of course build a lithium polymer stack capable of 500 amps, but if the M12 tool's only requesting 15, it's only going to get 15. A clean straight never dropping off delivery of 15, but never any extra. 18 volt tools on the other hand range quite a bit in peak current requests.
Based on this testing it would appear the 2.5 HO would be more useful than assumed, closer to a 6 cell pack. We just had our eyes on maxing things out!
You need to test with high amp tool like the 90° die grinder even with a 6.0 the thing alway cut out and drain battery like no other
Or try the circular saw and chainsaw it's where the new battery will shine
do you think it could be a tolerance and or wear problem from factory to factory
@@legros731 The 90" die grinder isn't particularly high current draw per second in my experience, just weak.
The comment about the imitation battery having a dodgy BMS is incorrect, the M12 BMS is located in the tool. The battery packs themselves contain no active circuitry, and any extra performance eeked out of a tool is due to lower internal cell resistance.
Hey what is the website you used to buy the individual Samsung lithium batteries?
haven't had an m12 battery fall out yet. Getting them out sometimes is a challenge though.
Yeah that only seems to happen when the shell breaks
When I first got my M12 ratchet I had troubles with the battery falling out I even had tape across it to make sure it would not do that again and then I switched to an aftermarket battery I've never had one fall out since
Battery’s and good need to break in with around a week or 2 of constant use it will be a lot smoother
To me that sounds like you're keeping the batteries cool. ABS is pretty soft when barely warm (below boiling point).
Try leaving a pack sit in the sun for a few hours, then test that latch.
Same, Ive had issues getting them out when they are brand new but I've never had one fall out and my m12 rattle gun is probably my most used tool.
Thanks for letting me know that my M12 tools don't need the new XC5. I also appreciate knowing the battery case is the real upgrade here and not necessarily the implied 'more beans'. Much respect sir.
I was thinking the same thing. I purchased the 2.5 High Output and noticed absolutely no difference. I'll save my money & stick with the XC Batteries. I have tons of milwaukee tools but they seem to be going in a different with their recent issue with their high torque half inch impact wrench (Rigid is also suing Milwaukee)
Most of the high torque impact wrenches that came out recently are all stronger than Milwaukee's 2760-20 gun. However, the 2760-20 is extremely reliable & durable until recently.
@@lowellgelin2063 ridged is suing its sister company
@@lowellgelin2063 seems a bit far fetched that Milwaukee would be getting sued by its own company
I knew this video was coming and I’ve been so excited to see it. However, I thought there would be a “High output” video including the HO 2.5 as well. That’s what the big story is in my opinion. XC performance in a CP pack, whats not to love? I bought the HO 2.5’s as soon as they hit my Home Depot and they most definitely pack a punch like the bigger batteries do. I really hope you’ll be doing a video comparing the HO2.5 to the XC6.0 soon
This was my thought, one thing i noticed from going from 18650 6.0 batteries to smaller 2170 4.0 batteries is that i get more peak power out of the smaller 2170 pack but the larger 6.0 pack will last longer for light jobs (less for heavy jobs, as it works harder/longer to do the same work)
Same i bought a 2.5 to keep things nice and slim, lightweight on my fuel screwdriver amd cut off tool!
Very cool. I almost exclusively run "Built" battery packs on my M12 tools now. 9 cell 18650 with 6.0ah and 7.5ah ratings(2000mah/2500mah cells) . There is a notable difference in power as there is virtually no voltage drop having so many cells share the load.
What cells are you using and how u fit 9 cells? You have links? Thanks.
I did the same. There are some bad ass 18650s out there. The beefiest being the Samsung 20S, as used in dewalt flexvolt.
You hve me interested now
Do you guys have links? Curoius to find out about the battery “building”
@@vincentrodrigues7533 You just buy an empty battery shell off ebay or aliexpress, and solder or spot weld bars to the cells, and assemble into the shell.
Great Video! You are correct the M12 BMS is on the tool. Also the M18 overdischarge protection is in the tool too, and not on the battery. I've repaired a fair bit of Milwaukee stuff.
You fellas have come so far with editing and just overall awesomeness. Love the channel. Keep up the great work.
I wish you tested the HO CP 2.5 vs a standard XC battery. I would be interested to see if a CP 2.5 would make the same max torque as an XC battery. We already know the XC batteries give a bit more max torque than the current CP batteries but I wonder if the smaller CP 2.5 can give us the 250 ftlbs in a smaller form factor.
I use m12 stuff a bunch and am really happy you did this. Time to see if I can get an older xc cheap now!
the current hd promotion has a 2 pack of 6.0 x.c batts with a free tool , so if you return. the to the 2 pack of xc 6.0 batteries costs about 100 bucks
I saw the XC3.0/6.0 battery only combo at my local HD (in Hawaii) at $97. I was really tempted but I don’t currently need any batteries. That price almost got me to bite lol
I’ve been curious and patiently waiting for a test on these batteries! Thankyou for your time and effort in your videos .
It'd be neat if they made a battery with 3x 18650 in the grip and 3x 21700 in the box below!
i looked it up, and there's no reasons i could find not to other than maybe balancing. if cells are discharging at different rates like a 21700 with 5000mah would compared to a 18650 with 3000mah, their voltage drop would happen at different times and stress each other out. im not an engineer though so maybe im wrong and it should work perfectly
I think the tools this is going to have the greatest affect on are likely the chainsaw, bandsaw, sawzall, and the cutoff tool.
All of these tools in my experience do well when used properly but always suffer a little bit when I try to push them. I’d think something like this would allow me to push them just a little harder making me just that much happier with them.
Good point, any tool that can "bog" down will benefit more from a HO
Funny information, the Milwaukee M12 can be used to power a Traxxas Bandit VXL up to like 50 mph in my experience, but I am under geared for off-road use. I use the little 3 cell unit, as it fits in the car. My speed controller gets really hot, and so does the battery, however, I have no cooling. Good for about 20 minutes of use before a recharge, for $20 it sure beats the $200 Traxxas batteries.
That’s pretty damn impressive, thanks for the info.
Huh. I got a Rustler VXL, might have to look into this :)
@@johncoops6897 only sometimes they run much nicer in the snow. $20 is a lot better than the $200 for the traxxas batteries, plus the $100 dollar charger.
Since when did M12 batteries fall out randomly? All of us in our diesel shop use them literally every day and never seen or even thought of this happening. Heck, I have trouble removing them sometimes.
I think the problem you're running into here is that there's going to be a limit to The current that the motor will draw no matter how much available current there is. The ESC can also be limiting factor. The tools you're testing are probably built specifically to make maximum power with the largest battery that they had at the time and they just simply can't take advantage of the additional output.
25% theoretical additional output only works if the tool can actually take advantage of it
I'd bet the contacts are the next limit , if not the main limit. Lots of tests on RC cars/boats indicate their little prongs are too small for 40A+.
He's tested dozens of different tools with dozens of batteries. The increase from HIgh Output batteries can be viewed across the board.
This is the first time high output batteries are producing less power.
A prime example would be the impact drivers, drills and impact wrenches all performing better with the High Output CP3.0Ah battery, over the XC 5.0Ah battery.
The difference being the 21700 cells. In this case, they didn't increase the cell size and that's why we have these results. You have a battery marked "HO" failing to produce power and a generic monstrosity that was built in a basement that is producing more power. Why? Because of the bigger batteries.
It's like he said, but it remains to be seen if it's true or not yet. It's possible that the battery can send more power to tools like the circular saw, maybe the rotary hammer?
But typically, with every single tool ever tested on this channel, there is an increase with HO batteries, not a decrease. That's including impact wrenches and drivers.
So why now would we see a decrease or a non increase all of the sudden, with the same exact drills. Impacts.
It doesn't follow suit with what we've seen and experienced with batteries and tools so far.
The flop here, is that the batteries used, with their lower capacity only have the ability to match the 6.0Ah or beat it out slightly.
Is it a better battery? Sure. It has a lower capacity and it produces the same power, if not slightly more than the 6.0Ah.
Will all the guys who are purchasing 3 to 5 of these batteries see any benefit over the Six 6.0Ah's that they already own? I highly doubt it. All they did was waste money.
People have been posting pictures of their 5.0Ah HOs arriving in the mail on Reddit non stop. Some of these dudes already had some 15+ M12 batteries. Just added another 5+... and for what? A battery that can MAYBE draw more power from 1 or 2 tools that 80% of users might not ever use, or don't own those tools at all.
Time to start rewinding power tool motors with larger wire? :^D
@@SixSnax Well there's the benefit of lighter weight... but unless you're a geriatric I guess that doesn't matter much. The cells themselves are also higher quality so they should handle more charge cycles. I'm also left curious about their comparative performance in hot and cold weather. Regardless yeah it's just a little better all around, and the case is the only thing leaping forward. I'm much more impressed with Flex and Dewalt with the Lithium stacks.
@@hydrocarbon82 maybe but we are talking about very short bursts of current.
I bought a pair of the m12 5ah and 2.5ah for a gen2 drill impact set. The drill has allways been a puss but with the 5ah battery it comes to life. Enough so that my eyes were as big as saucers when testing against the old 6ah batts.
Good to heard they're trying something to strengthen the tabs. I have an older XC battery that I've replaced the case of twice and still the tabs broke.
Great info and cool videos, thanks to the Torque Test Channel Team
Like you said the battery is supplying the amperage that is being requested so even hooking it up to a car battery won't make a difference, you want an increase in voltage not amps, I just put a matco 16v battery on my Milwaukee right angle and it's insane, it took alot of work though, the shape of the battery was the same but the polarity was reversed and I had to do some hackery to make the battery tabs lock in properly, totally worth it though
Just to clarify with brushless motors in RC cars you increase voltage when you want to increase rpm, the matco 16v is actually 4 18650 (though it looks like it's was designed to have 5) in series as Opposed to the Milwaukees 3, so about a 30 percent increase in voltage
I wish y'all had a right angle die grinder to do a run time test. The 2485-20 is a power hungry little battery burner
The M12 cells appear to connect directly to the tool through a fusible link. The main protection appears to be a thermistor in the pack that connects to the tool. If a 6 cell pack is converted to three 21700 cells and the connections are the same the pack might be safe to use. The standard capacity of 21700 cells is 5.0 Ah so the pack would not be expected to give longer runtime than the new 5.0 Ah High Output pack.
What this test shows is that I'll stick with my 6Ah batteries and enjoy better runtime while saving money. Thanks Torque
I'd love to see DIY M12 with Molicell P42A cells; these are basically the end-all-be-all for esk8 use.
TTC! Thank you so much for the video, this helps me understand what I bought! I really wish I had watched before, but I thankfully didn’t make a mistake!
The H.O on the handle cells is something I've been waiting for
I think the HO will make the most difference in the Gen3 Fuel drill, which really bogs down before cutting out, or the Fuel circular saw as demonstrated in their Pipeline demo. It may also have an advantage when partially discharged.
Yep, it will also yield more capacity under load. My 20S filled CP2.0 puts put slightly more current than an xc6.0 but lasts about the same as a CP3.0 under load, just without bogging down.
@@procrastinator1842 5.0 didn't yield any real capacity gains over the 4.0 (cuts per Ah, with the M12 circular saw) at Milwaukee's own pipeline event. It was 46.8 (5.0) vs 46.6 (4.0). It would likely show some gains over the 6.0 considering the sustained load of a circular saw, but Milwaukee still chose to not market against the 6.0 for a reason, because it would've put a damper on the marketing hype. As we basically saw in this video.
CP 3.0 is the real loser vs CP 2.0/2.5, with the 2.5 being the most promising considering you need all the amps you can get when you have a CP-style pack with a 1P array of cells. But the 4.0/5.0/6.0 are firmly into the land of diminishing returns at this point. And there's not much sense in spending $120 on a 5.0 when 6.0s are so easily had for $55 with Home Depot hacks right now.
The real improvement should be with the battery casement/tabs. But why do we need entirely new SKUs centered around marketing hype to address one of the M12 platform's biggest flaws? These types of improvements need to be made across the board. And as long as the 2.0/4.0 are the most commonly shipped batteries in kits it's always going to be a rather large problem for the end user. Absolutely bone-headed move on Milwaukee's part if they don't eventually make any updates there, and it's probably a safe bet they won't do anything until 2.5/5.0 sales fall off.
30q cells have test at 20amps all day long. I build cust esk8 battery packs and they are great cells.
they should make the base a bit wider and put 2170 cells in there just like that
The m12 would be a great application of pouch cells.
I was thinking this the whole time. Could easily put a 4AH pouch in the small, 3 cell triangle battery case...
But then you don't have the cells. In the handle. It's not a good idea. To mix diffent cell types so you if you went pouch cells you would have a much lower capacity.
@@randybobandy9828 no mixing, only pouch type is what we were thinking about. Pouch batteries offer more energy density than cylindrical cells too.
all you have to do is cut a sliver of 3/4" black shrink wrap about 3/8 wide and fold it in half between the battery (red part) and the clip. It puts just the right amount of pressure but you can still squeeze it tightly to remove the battery. Try it. It works perfectly.
With the HO’s coming out, the XC’s have dropped in price on eBay. XC 6.0Ah run about $64 for 2.
I purchased knock off Bosch 12v. Nice to know I can replace with better 18650’s.
I started with Bosch and they announced they were going to discontinue and didn’t have a large selection of tools. I then switched to Milwaukee, get it all on sale.
Now I wish I went with Ryobi. I’m not a contractor. I do house work, at my siblings and mothers home. Once in a while I get handyman jobs, so the Ryobi line would have been just fine and far less expensive.
I've never had a battery fall out of any of my 4 impacts, either of my 2 drills, any of my 3 ratchets. I've been running these tools from 3 to just over 6 years. I do take better care of my tools than the other technicians I know, but I also run the piss out of most of them. Full disclosure, I did have the screws strip out of the plastic on both of my original 6+ year old 5.0Ah 18 volt batteries. I found them that way after someone else borrowed them though, and "no one" had "seen what happened". I pulled them barely open, ran a bead of black or red The Right Stuff, let them sit overnight, and never had a problem again. Those 2 batteries have lost some of their useable work cycle after a charge, but oddly enough are still stronger on a full charge than my newer 4.0Ah batteries. None of them are high output, as I rarely found myself wanting for power with the originals, and preferred a longer period between charges. That said, if I'd known the 4.0 power performance would have been lower, I'd have dished out the extra dough for more 5.0s and maybe a single larger battery. Saw the TTC video on that subject after the fact. But the thing I most often run into trouble on is crank pulleys/balancers, and I have a set of weighted sockets that remove them like butter. My fuel 1/4" hex driver impact does sometimes fall short, but I'm running it as a screwdriver, 1/4", 3/8", and small 1/2" impact all in one. I was originally going to get a 3/8" impact and socket sets as well, but it performed so far above my expectations that I decided it was nowhere near worth the money. I only break maybe 2 to 5 3/8" and 1/2" square drive adapters combined every year, which is miraculous in my mind.
I appreciate mention of the various non-power aspects here (plastics). Now that it's been 6 most, watch prices! I'm currently seeing 6.0s for less than what 4.0s cost, and AMZ offering the 5.0 for well under retail. YMMV.
Your videos make my brain release all the happy juices at once...
I simply wrap 2 or 3 layers of electrical tape around the stub that goes into the handle. Problem fixed, no more shaky or falling batteries
Finally! I’ve been wanting to do this but I don’t have any torque testing equipment, or a TH-cam channel :)
LET'S GO TTC!🏁
I love the irony in a Makita 1/4Hex impact being used to take apart a Milwaukee battery.
Might not seen exciting at face value but I'm glad they're paying attention to the case design itself since especially the m12 could use some work, thanks for the video
Battery falling out? Never heard about that one. They can require some effort to remove at times.
Apparently there is some of those Amazon batteries that do not fit as secure.
I have m12 and m18 tools. I bought m12 to use where I new I didn't need as much power or battery life but needed the smaller package of the CP3.0 to fit in tight spots such as my screw gun, drill, angle drill and 3/8" ratchet but I do have an M18 1/2" drill also. My 3/8" and 1/2" mid torque impacts are M18. I tried to fit the tool to how I would normally use it and have been happy with what I have purchased. Impacts, ratchet and drills are used daily with the rest of them at the very least once a week and have had no battery clip problems but the drill chucks suck. I intend to replace the chucks with Jacobs chucks with hopes they are still as good as the old days.
I’ve had two 6.0 m12 battery’s die within a year. And ALL of the 4.0’s have lived and charge with zero issues. I’ve thought about customizing my own battery with 21700. Edit: the price of the HO m12 is extremely over priced in my opinion.
Love the measuring, PF watch out!
Got the 5ah and 2.5 ah bundle and while removing a injector off my buddies vw van the smallest bit of old fuel fell on the back of the battery and completely cleaned off the Milwaukee logo and the high output logo :( you have been warned lol. Still works a treat tho
THANKS ,, YOU GUYS ARE ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Milwaukee is my favorite brand , used for years , never had a battery fall out ever m12 or 18
I haven’t had any fall out either although they don’t fit very snug in my string trimmer. Doesn’t matter if I’m using a 5.0 a 6.0 or a 8.0 they all have a little play which is annoying and a real shame considering the amount of money Red charges.
Mine have only fallen out sometimes when the tool is dropped. Noticed the other day, 1 2.0 battery has the top cap tabs broken but hasn't come off yet. All the black tabs still good. I'm in automotive & usually dropped from waist height
Im interested to know if the ratchets get any extra break away beans from the ho's? Sounds like they will be better for wrenching on any ways. Love the channel, thanks n keep bringing them beans!
Molicel P42A would be an ideal choice for a DIY 21700 battery pack, very comparable to the Samsung 30T but higher capacity . Also Molicel is one of the only manufacturers that sells grade A cells directly to the authorized distributors online , unlike everything else, Samsung, LG, and all the major players send their bare unprotected cells directly to the battery pack contracts so the ones we see for sale at DIY level are often slightly lower B grade cells, aged inventory or leftovers from finished contracts.
I built a custom 8.4Ah DeWalt pack out of Molicel P42As, fantastic cells for sure.
Ya those molicel are a beast on capacity and output power. Top cell for electric skateboards.
How do you build your own battery packs for power tools?
@@tstrenuous10 I’d guess you reverse engineer it and rebuild it with the superior parts if you have the right tools
Excellent production
Great test, in practical use, I've found my M12 impacts (driver and wrenches) feel strong with the 4.0 or 6.0, rather than my 1.5 and 2.0.. (I have some right angle M12 3.0 batteries, but use them for lights) I do not have a new HOXC5.0 battery. Was just about to buy a pair of new XC6's. BUT ....... Since the Kobalt RA impact performed very well with it's better beans battery... I would have liked to seen the M12 RA impacts in on this testing. That's the one I noticed the most liking the 6.0 when knocking off brake caliber bolts on my jeeps and 1ton Ram. So now you got me wondering about the new HOxc5.0. I own both the 1/2 and 3/8 for what ever reason, my OCD maybe. Would love to see that. Do you have any M12 3.0 Batteries? Be interested to see where they stack up to the little 1.5/2.0/3.0 VS Right angles 3.0/XC4.0/XC6.0 and now HOxc5.0
I'm a new view, new subscriber, been binging your test vids this weekend, great work, tnx! (But boring the heck out of the wifey, need a shop dog or cat, that usually keeps my better half interested, shop dog/cat cameos)
(Edit : Also noticed the same thing in my M18 impacts wrenches. Working on large hardware / suspension parts, if its not breaking loose, and I have a m18 5.0 in there, get an HOxc6.0 or HOxc8.0, and there are extra beans to crack the rusted bolt / nut free. )
I have a old ryobi drill hp412 (lead acid battery tech guys were throwing it out because the battery shit out) rebuilt the battery 3s2p 46amp output pack using Samsung 15m cells, my huge brother who's a welder that handles power tools all day can't even stop the chuck with his hands.
My m12 batteries are always a pain to get out, I wish they were easy to get out
Only had 1 issue with a 4.0 battery but I'm pretty sure the sawzall shook it out from my abuse so pilot error perhaps. Otherwise a freaking excellent tool line. My m18s stay in the box now days
Same here. M12 is amazing and all most people need most of the time. I still have m18 but try my best to stick to m12 if it makes sense. Im more into compact tools so i only go for m18 if i really need battery life badly without wanting to swap batteries or if for some rare reason i want or need more power(like a leaf blower or multitool kinda or a cement sds drill with chipping mode or obvious a grinder.) I treat my m18 as if its mx line. I dont like bigger tools most often cuz it sucks climbing on stair, roofs and attics and storing in a work vehicle
Next year they will be cheaper and I will stick with my XC 4.0 and 6.0 batteries.
I've busted more than a few m12 6.0 batteries and I'm excited for that to stop with these new casings
Huge Thanks! Munro strips packs, TTC puts them to sweat and gives us real numbers! No need to de-cord my vacuum today but my lawn mower getting batteries today!
The added storage capacity should also be considered. You could argue it's the more important metric because the tool will last longer before needing a batt swap. I know that with my vape mods, my Sony 21700 (VTC6) is 4200mAh while my Sony 18650 (VTC6) is only 3000mAh. That's a 40% increase.
8:06 Gas Fiber? No way! I’m sold.
Glass fiber.
I would like to see a M12 homebuild pack with Molicel INR21700-P50B 5000mAh - 50A
This would be so awesome. These should be a set of killer batteries....
How does the new M12 2.5 HO compare to the m12 CP 3.0? I personally like running the smaller batteries for my impact drill.
Thanks TTC for saving me some money
It did make 25% improvement, but only against the old purely in handle battery pack. So they may be misleading with that statement, but if you compare against something you're not expecting them to compare against.. it's technically true.
They got the same statement for the new ho2.5cp one
@@legros731 It's hard to know what the heck they're comparing to whenever they makes silly claims like 5x longer life.. 5x of what? It's basically just marketing exaggeration that's pretty hard to actually believe.
@@natesewell9402 there no 5x can you at least know what you are arguing clown
It's 25% more power and 25% cooler but a don't care about there claim there better quality cell inside and it's all that matter the cell in the 6.0 and 3.0 have a reputation of not being good battery
@@legros731 that's a common claim on other products such as drill bits, it was an example not a direct counter to the 25% claim here which is also misleading
@@natesewell9402 look the 6.0 got 15amp cell and the new 5.0 got 25amp cell so the 25% claim is pretty conservative 25% more that 15 is 18.75 and same for the temp claim if the tool only need 12amp the 25amp battery will stay cooler
But it all in theory and real world testing can be deceiving like we just found in this video if the tool only use 10amp going to a 25amp battery will not improve performance but a bigger battery with more density will sag less in the 15 second test and get better number in the last 5 second exactly like the 21700 custom pack did with a more constant voltage it gain on top where the other battery are sagging in voltage
Basic Ohm law at work 25amp at 12 volt = 300w
25amp at 10volt =250watt
And the new battery can be pushed to 30amp so 30x12= 360watt
The 6.0 battery is rated at 15amp and can be push to 20 for short periods so if you do the math even at full charge the battery is still 20amp x 12 volt= 240watt
So the new 5.0battery can deliver 120watt more that the old 6.0
So the 25% is not bogus this test prove absolutely nothing about the battery it just show that the stubby don't use that much amp
And I am assuming Milwaukee is coming with a new stubby to compete against the new dewalt that will take advantage of the ho battery
Thanks guys
I feel like the newer batteries are tailored for the die grinders. They are always together when I’ve seen the newer batteries for sale
I'll look into that my stubby is noticeably more powerful with the 2.5 then the 3.0 cp
Just stick with 6.0 basically which what I use on high demand tools like impacts
21700 and 18650 cells are just a size aspect ratio the larger cell risks higher heat however less metal casing means lower weight. The real change would be the pouch cell but it is just plastic and is not great at high power due to internal heat issues so great for tech but not sure about power tools. You don not want to risk the pouch rupturing in to a ball of fire. In all reality batteries have not have any major improvements in a long time, you have LiPO and all kinds of other changes but they are mostly minor or make improvements to fit more battery in to a given space things of that nature.
Seems like this battery is testing the waters for a more powerful m12 impact to follow....
I'd love to see an m12 mid-torque!
@@TorqueTestChannel Perhaps a fraken12?
I would think IPM would have to increase 2 or 3 fold and also it would murder battery life, but a 400+ftlb M12 impact would be amazing.
Why would you purchase one 5.0 HO for the price of 2 /6.0 combo on sale?
I'd like to see one of these tested on the non high speed fuel ratchet. It seems to have taken advantage of larger cells in the past I'm curious to see it now.
There is no BMS on the M12 platform at all , tool or charger .
The tool has acces to the power treminals and the thermistor , for checking the temperature of the pack .
The charger has acces to the individual cells or pair of cells ( depending on the form factor of the battey ) but , and this is a big one , pun intendet , it¨s trough a one kilohm resistor , so the charger cannot do cell balance , only cell voltage monitoring , it can only reject battery packs that have a difference something like 0.6 - 0.7 volts . There are no other electronics inside the battery pack , exept for the said thermistor .
Because all cells are different to eachother it´s unavoidable that given enough charge discharge cycles you will get the dreaded red green blinking lights , you toss your battery in the efit bucket and go buy a new one .
One of the early signs of an unbalanced pack is that it no longer charges to full capacity , the carger only charges untill the first cell or pair of cells got to 4.2 volts . BUT when you check your overall voltage in the battery you discover that you are only 3/4 full . Bummer . Recenly our host at TTC has complained about a M18 big bucks battery , wich leads me to beleive that the M18 battery platform is the same , I E no balanced charging .
Battery bussiness is BIG , ain¨t that right Milwaukee ? It has to be , if you make your own battery pack and pay at RETAIL price for the cells , case and " electronics " it will cost you half the price .
Me , I have a balanced charger left from my RC days , and when I get a battery that no longer charges to full or has the red - green blinky blinky , i open the battery chage it on the balanced charger , test the internal resistence and the capacity of the cells , to see if I really have a gonner , then voila , I´m good for another 6 - 12 months .
My usage case is verry intensive , each week i mount thousants of mainly 8 and 10 mm bolts into high metallic structures . So yeah , in the menu we have a hot supper daily .
how about slapping a rc hobby lipo onto it. they are designed for extreme loads. a 4ah 3s pack with 80..120C can handle 300amps with ease. lipo might have a lower voltage tho, might try LiHV batteries instead.
I've never had an M12 battery fall out. But I'm also very careful with my tools.
Yes!
Where's a tool seems to have reached it power "limit" on the control board, it would be interesting to see power over the life of the charge between the XC and the HO. It's possible they derived there "25%" figure at a particular charge point. Having higher peak current could also mean better current at lower charges
Car headlight bulb lumens test. Aftermarket examples such as Boslla.
Testing this battery on the die grinders to see if it helps with their power output would be cool
I’ve heard that the regular 6 amp batteries are better than the high output 5 amp.
I heard Milwaukee is coming out with stacked lithium batteries next year.
I’ve actually never had a battery fail out. The 6 amp battery is kind of hard to get out.
Awesome, keep it up. I love all your content.
Just use 60V / 20V dewalt batterys there all I use honestly the best but also using a adaptor for em for my Bosch work great
Will wee see a 2.0/2.5 comparison as well?
You left one more important component out from the comparison: battery life after tool use.
The 5.0 HO batteries might make more difference on saws. But I would like to see what the 2.5HO can do on an impact driver. Should be able to come close to the 6.0
Would love to see that. Using a 2.0 battery on my m12 saw stalls at virtually any resistance on a 2x4 with it at very slow cutting speeds. While the 4.0 is much better, it really could still use a boost in current capabilities.
@@upon1772 im an auto tech. my buddy is a carpenter. he kept complaining about the saws stalling. i thought it was a "feature" like so there is no kickback. i didnt know it was due to lack of power. ty
Feel like the M12 can use the flat batter stack which DeWalt is using.
Well put
I pretty much abandoned the M12 line because of the batteries being so fragile and annoying to remove. The stubby 3/8 was the only tool keeping me tied down, until the dewalt atomic 3/8 came out. I hope to never be tempted by the M12 stuff ever again.
Great video info as always.
I've never had an issue with m12 batteries and I've put them through hell at least I thought I was lol.
Would it be possible to have three 18650’s and 3 21700 cells together in a pack to really crank up the amps? Maybe add a few diodes to keep the current on track?
Interesting - the HO is a stronger battery, in that it can hold onto the tool better.
Great job, Garrett!
Maybe we could buy the cheap 30$ M12 2.0 and replace the cells with the new cells instead of spending 100$ on the M12 HO 2.5
Great video! Thanks!
That's unfortunate but not surprising. I was hoping these batteries would make some actual difference. The M12 fuel roto hammer can get the job done, but definitely could use some extra power
Someone needs to make a milwaukee impact with rc car brishless motors and esc up.to 6s. This way you can put a lipo battery of what ever cell you want and these little brushless motors are insane. 6s would be 25.2v
Now will the XC5.0 HO have the same problem with the XC6.0 with random no charging issues?
I've had no issues with dropping batteries out of my milwaukee tools but my 3/8 fuel impact with the 4.0 batteries has consistently had issues with battery errors. The small contact on the left side of the battery (as you hold the tool) gets bent in and loses contact with the tool which kills the power and flashes the battery light, which in some situations is extremely frustrating. After comparing my 5 year old tool to a new one I came to the conclusion that my tool was simply worn out after 5 years of what my Mac dealer described as "hard use" and I replaced it today, but it was disappointing to do so as otherwise the tool functioned perfectly. I feel like the design of the battery tabs is lacking and could easily be improved.
My m12 batteries fall out all the time, but has nothing to do with the size. It has everything to do with the little clip edges are typically rounded off from new, instead of squared edges to catch the tool.
Thanks for that. I have never had any issues at all with batteries falling out, apparently never had a battery with that defect.
Is it a wear issue over time or directly from the manufacturer?
Lol never happened to my or any of my coworker and we use them every day and mine are over 2 year old
The only time the battery eject the tool is on my rover light when it fall from like 5 feet high
TTC! I’ve been thinking about making a custom “stacked” battery. Basically fitting 5AH worth of power into possibly a 2.0 case but from polymer cells. Similar to dewalt but for Milwaukee. Would that be something you guys would be interested in?
In m18? Drop us a line Torquetestchannel@gmail.com
@@TorqueTestChannel yes! I might attempt m12 in the future but due to the shape of the housing, m18 is the best case, plus power gains would be considerably more significant/noticeable. I’ll shoot an email over!
I would suggest not using rc car styled pouch cells. You'll have to find the correct ones and also learn how to keep them from over heating but in theory it's a good idea
@@kentuckybeardsman over heating? They have far lower internal resistance usually. They wouldn't overheat anymore than a normal 18650. Problem is they aren't very energy dense so it would be Hard to fit a higher capacity in a drill pack even factoring in the round vs square cell shape that leaves gaps in the pack.
@@randybobandy9828 Ive been running nitro and elec rc for well over a decade and using pouch cell batterys for many many years. They will get hot my friend. This is coming from experience
8:08 Gas Fiber?! Jk I know it’s glass but the L just seemed to disappear when you said it the first time.
Hey with enough fiber, everything's gassy!
Hey man was wondering if you could recommend to me what you think is best, I’m looking for a compact(mainly smallest I can get size & weights) to remove lug nuts from a F150 TQ 135Ft lbs and my wife’s car is TQ at 100ft lb. I’m Not invested into any battery system yet but was looking at Milwaukee, Dewalt etc.
I purchased your PDF trying to do my own research but I’m confused with the TQ , I thought a non rusted bolt Tq at 135ft lbs A 200-250ft lb tq gun would zip it off but I can see now that’s not the case …
Anyways I Appreciate your time !
Should try and run a stubby 1/2" vs the stubby 3/8" . I have both and it feels like the 1/2" spins slower but hits harder. My 3/8 is my good old go to . But my newer 1/2" is starting to shine on bigger stuff.
Pretty sure they have and the 3/8 came out on top… maybe that was m18 though. Too lazy to go back through and check though.
@@Code325 it was indeed the M12, and the 3/8 did better.