Stop Overpaying for DeWALT, FLEX, Ridgid, and Milwaukee Tool Batteries!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- Discover the smarter way to save on power tools with VCG Construction's latest video, "Stop Overpaying for DeWALT, FLEX, Ridgid, and Milwaukee Tool Batteries!" Join Vince as he dives into the benefits of pouch lithium battery-powered packs, a game-changing technology for your DeWALT, Ridgid, FLEX, and Milwaukee tools.
In this in-depth guide, Vince explains how pouch lithium batteries stand out from traditional cylindrical cell packs. Learn why these battery packs, despite their higher initial cost, are a smart investment that will save you money in the long run. Not only do they offer better performance and durability, but their cost-effectiveness over time is unbeatable.
We'll break down the cost comparisons and show you the clear financial benefits of switching to pouch lithium battery packs. Plus, Vince will provide practical tips on how to maximize your tool's performance and battery life with these advanced battery technologies.
Don't miss out on the opportunity to upgrade your tool arsenal and save money. Watch the full video to see how investing in the right batteries can make a huge difference in your work efficiency and budget. Subscribe to VCG Construction for more money-saving tips and tool reviews!
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#Dewalt #flextools #Milwaukeetools #cordlesstools #savings #lithiumbattery #vcgconstruction #milwaukeetool - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Your USING the WRONG Tape Measure!
th-cam.com/video/6P-w6OCb9uY/w-d-xo.html
Nope!
Comparing full retail to full retail, the math makes sense to buy the pouch lithium, but with so many good deals where you get free batteries, I'm not so sure. I bought a Milwaukee M18 Fuel SAWZALL that came with 2 of the 6.0HO's and 1 of the 8.0HO's for $269 at HD. The SAWZALL is normally $200, so I got the 3 batteries for $69. Those 3 batteries will get about as many charges as the Forge battery (about 1200). The Forge 6.0 costs $179. So the 3 HO batteries end up being $0.06 per charge vs. $0.15 per charge for the Forge. I think there's still some value to be gotten from the HO batteries if you find them on sale or in bundles.
Cylinder cells are going to be heavier and bigger. However, a few companies are producing packs with 21700 tabless cells. They shouldn't have issues with heat, charge/discharge speed, but they're still going to take up more space and they'll be a little heavier, seeing as they're each inside an aluminum casing. However, the pouch cells might not last as long, depending on the pack itself. Pouch cells swell and expand as they age. If they're stored properly, so they can't expand too much, they could be better, given weight and space. Cylinder cells do a good job of containing the chemistry and prevent expansion.
I heard that a 12.0 Forge is coming out using cylinder tabless cells. Agree that pouch cells do expand. I've seen it happen in a couple different devices.
@@daifeichu ya, I think cylinders are just tougher and don't have as many issues with temperature. But they cant compete with the space efficiency of pouch cells.
Something I believe helps batteries last longer is don’t leave them charging if they’re charged. Take them off the charger and don’t let them die all the way
Any good charger doesnt apply voltage to a full cell.
There is something to be said about full depletion, but the tools also dont fully deplete the cells. A fully depleted li-ion is a hazard and most chargers wont charge an "undervolt cell"
Pouch cell technology comes from the drone market/RC market. For drones, power to weight matters, and the heaviest thing is the battery. Batteries really have a "C" rating, which denotes the power rating. 1C = 1×C(capacity Ah) so a 5.0Ah cell @ 1C = 5.0 amp max output and .5 amp max charging. Standard for a cylindrical cell is 3C. Standard for a pouch would be 10-15C but goes over 30C.
What you're describing sounds like the Lithium Polymer batteries we use in RC models.
It does. And it seems like they would be more volatile than the cylindrical cells. I'd be interested to see the safety comparison and the track record since release.
Thank you for making videos like this because although I already know this I see a lot of people shopping for tools who are lost or confused and do not know what to buy they often just buy what can be easily found and when I started out I watched all your videos before spending any big amount of money and I learned so much from you so no matter what the haters say you are helping people out here I am just one example
Glad you like the Nick, thanks!
For the DIY stuff I do these days (not nearly as frequently as back in the day), the DeWalts I have, have held up great. I have 4-6AH XR's that are 4-8 years old now that still perform. I've only ever had one fail on me. If I need new ones, I would probably try the Power Stacks. We'll see when we start some big projects at my son's new house this summer! I'll also get to play with his Milwaukee tools to see how I like them. Higher battery capacity also means you need fewer batteries, less weight to lug around, and less room taken up in your boxes!
I use both DeWalt and Milwaukee on 7 work trailers and 2 HVAC step vans and I have no problems with both brands and my guys like both as well …🇺🇸👊🏼👊🏼🪚🔨
Good stuff. I think your math terms are a bit off. If you have 300 charge cycles vs 1200 charge cycles you have 4 times the charge cycles, not 400 times more charge cycles. If you had 400 times more charge cycles you'd have 120,000 charge cycles. Still, very good info to know about the flat pack differences vs. cylindrical cells.
@@Freddie2598 I've only tried one of his impacts & drills. Seemed fine, was just awkward to have to push an electronic button to select/reverse speed. Guess It's what you're used to. I prefer the mechanical switches.
@@jayg6857 He meant 300% - 400% more. He misspoke.
So I have now have hourly job chargers and bid job chargers, got it! 😀 - I will say I didn’t trust “Pouch” tech for a while now, especially in my Large 100ah 12v batteries, this makes me rethink that..
most of my batteries were purchased prior to the pouch being out. I have bought more cylindrical cell batteries since but that because of the killer deals. I run mobile service and install for generators and can't always plug in so more batteries is better to me than fast recharge. I will start buying them when I see deals on them but that will likely be a while.
Invest in a 2000 watt inverter to run your chargers from your vehicle battery when no power is available. 😉
I just went out yesterday (Sunday) and bought one. Thanks Vince.
Nice one Vince, I didn't know about the forge line of batteries to be honest. I always thought the high output was the way to go, I'm glad you made this video!
Glad to help
Great details you shared & visually showed us the differences between the battery types! Keep educating us!
Thank you! Will do!
I knew the stack was better but didn't do the math on the flex on per charge, good vid
I would sometimes talk about this during livestreams and people asked me to do a stand alone video, I think it’s a worth while topic. Thanks Shawn!
What about the ridgid?? Bro gimme some love man!!
Hello again, Vince and Vcg
Thank you for another Great Video 👍 I 've been researching for information about the batteries. Thank you 😊 What about the warranties and how does that work? Again thank you
Dewalt tool user here. The ONLY time I buy kits is if I can verify that not only is the battery worth owning, but the charger as well. Since I have hit the tipping point as a cordless tool owner, I own the highest amp chargers (fanless) along with a mix of Powerstack and 21700's. A few of my lower amp cylindrical cells (4A and 5A) literally never get used and should be sold. Thanks Vince for another video with great information.
@VCG Constuction , great video Vince much appreciated for the information you show on the new battery technologies and how the pouch cells work and it helps me explain to the wife how I can buy the new forge batteries for my Milwaukee tools and make it worth the while, so thank you for the great job you do at letting the uninformed learn at a simple pace with a easy explanation
Glad it was helpful!
Very informative video, I get the point about charge cycles and the lifetime cost of the battery, however in the UK they are still priced too high vs HO.
6.0ah forge 250% more ££ than a 5.5ah (EU version of 6.0HO). They’re also 120% more ££ than 12ah HO.
In terms of lifecycle cost they look very attractive vs 12ah but pitched against the 5.5ah (6ahHO) they are only 25% cheaper per cycle.
But I can afford to have two 5.5ah batteries for the price on one 6ah Forge. This halves the lifecycle cost of the 5.5ah as I’m splitting the load between two batteries making the 5.5 effectively 60% cheaper per cycle.
Also not to mention on the subject of getting more and more charges with the pouch lithium. I have multiple 5ah XR batteries from 2019-2020. Charged many many times. I have never had a battery dwindle away at a rate worth noticing. It’s always failure from a drop, randomly quit charging, stuff like that. Although I can only recall 2 2ah batteries that I’ve had fail, 1 3ah and 1 flex volt 9ah. All of them did the same thing. Quit charging.
I use craftsman v20 batteries amd I love them. I have
2 2ah
3 or 4 4ah.
5 tools. And I love the craftsman v20 line!
I must have a dozen of 6 amp DeWalts in a pile that don't work. The issue is when they get wet it fry's out the electronics in the battery. I wish they made them waterproof. Good video!
I was waiting for someone to mention this on DeWalts.
Between the shop floor at the company I worked for (100 cordless’s, changing brands about once every year or two) friends and my brother inlaws pile of dead DeWalt batteries, to me it’s so obvious DeWalt batteries don’t last.
Coincidence? Am I missing something?
Great video! Thanks for the info i am definitely going to go with the these newer battery packs on my next purchase. One thing, whats with the 2 pairs of glasses? Little weird.
I've been overpaying? I've been watching these guys on TH-cam for years that send me notifications and new videos just about every day about the great deals I can get at Home Depot and Lowes? Now you're telling me I've been overpaying?
If you’ve been watching then you already know all this information because I say it all the time during livestreams but knew I’d reach a different audience if a made a stand alone video! NEVER PAY FULL PRICE FOR TOOLS! 👍🏻
@VCG Vince doing HERO work 🦸🏻♂️🙌
Thanks cuz!
Youre a legend, this information is super important for people
Love your deep dives and information.
I'm in the IT field, I was well aware of it when I heard there was talk of a Milwaukee pouch style battery coming out. I knew exactly what field of tech it came from so I was excited! Thanks for the video! Hopefully with more exposure they'll sell more and the price will go down
Right on
Great Info! Not well known to the public, or at least me. Thanks !!
Thanks, appreciate it! 👍🏻
I just bought 2 power stack 5ah battery’s. They both broke during their first use. Both manufactured in 04/2023 purchased new 04/2024. I read more complaints about the power stack than I have ever seen for another battery. I’m going to stick with the older XR batteries.
I still have a Dewalt 5xr dated 2014 that still runs to work with me every day. I’m sure I’m not getting the runtime out of it that I used to. But six hours on an impact vs seven hours isn’t enough of a difference to get rid of it.
I’ve been using the dewalt powerstack they are very good I have now swapped all my dewalt battery’s to powerstack
Sweet, how you liking them so far?
@@VCGConstruction they hold up really well last very well can’t fault them one bit
It would be interesting the ruggedness of these battery stack packs. Say for instance using an angle grinder which is high output. I dropped a cell on my hikoki 36 multi volt. I'm looking to get a cordless concrete grinder. I know hilti does one although not yet available in western australia. I may send hikoki a line and see what they can come up with. Or metabo and makita. I have the makita xgt 40 volt platfom and metabo. Great video Vince.
Great video tyvm sir!
You bet
very informative channel. thanks.
Glad you think so cuz!
The only thing I hate about flex is the chargers are so big man. Other then that great power I have been using flex for a couple years now no complaints here.
Thanks, good to know.
Thank you for enlightening me and the world about this substantial savings... I will now keep my eyes open to they types of batteries I am buying with my tool.
Very good information. Thank you !
Thanks for watching!
You don't know anything about overpaying Mr. Milwaukee, become a Makita tool owner in Canada.
Haha. True this in US too.
Makita is an excellent line. Certainly comparable to Milwaukee & DeWALT. No doubt. But, if they started selling in the US with the fervor that Milwaukee & DeWALT do, their cost price will steadily climb just as red & yellow have. It’s called capitalism. The more money a company makes because they are so popular, the higher they will increase their prices. I love my one Makita grinder. It kicks ass. But, my three other DeWALTs see the vast majority of action because they are readily available in the store & I’ve become wallet blind when needing a new one. I purchase the higher priced tool that is readily available instead of going online & waiting for a lower costed tool to arrive. Companies know that & they are inherently greedy (core ingredients to capitalism.)
Do your calculations include the cost of power used to charge? This would be usefull if you were comparing to corded tools.
One solution is to label peak and sustained power (in watts) as shown on the FLEX stacked lithium
Hey Vince! great advice! I am DeGang team~!!!🙂😂🤣 But switched to stack ftw! IT just makes sense, and power! Keep the vids coming ma man!
You rock!
VCG CONSTRUCTION Vince God bless everyone 🙏🇺🇸 I actually had to delete my comment because I should have watched the whole video first because if I wanted to do that it answered my question. Thank you brother brother
As it stands currently, I get most of my batteries during sales deals where the tool/batteries come together (Tool, 2 Batteries, Charger) often for less than the Tool or a Tool Battery ALONE costs.
I’ve got 9 batteries and only one was bought as just a battery … I have too many chargers if that’s possible …
I can see why Milwaukee Forge is 1:1 a “better” deal but, until they start packaging them into deals, I’ll continue to routinely carry 5 batteries and a charger in one of their freebie soft sided tool cases and run their Drill, Grinder, Circular &/or Sawzall, 1/2” Impact Hammer ALL DAY LONG without experiencing any Lack of Power.
When the deals begin I can see choosing deals that include Forge Batteries but the relatively small increases gained vs the much higher $ don’t get me past the economic “hump”.
I’ve had Milwaukee 18v since 2012 . I’ve had 5 drills screw up . I have lots of their tools . I’m done with their drills going to try flex
Vince, can you do some videos on Metabo HPT multivolt line
Vince, great video!! I'm a black &yellow guy but it's awesome to see everyone is going pack. I really was living in a bubble because I thought only dewalt had the packs. It was just more in my face, props to dewalt for the name power stack and visual on the battery. But like you pointed out it's hard to tell on the other lines who is stacked. Great video. I love the cost breakdown, I never knew you could get that much more life out if them. Thanks I'm sold on them now even more than ever. Now that HD and Lowes are giving away free batteries with tools.
Keep up the great work in front camera and the people behind the scenes, thanks for making it all happen.
I'm just hoping my old lady don't come home from work and see this. She's always shopping for new more powerful ah tools. She got a whole dresser drawer stuffed full of her ah tools...
Great info, my brother, you are the man.👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Much appreciated Joseph!
I have dewalt everything with some Milwaukee tools. The power stack is not my favorite at all. Big tools I need a 8ah or flex volt. And for my regular hand tools I find the power stack way to heavy and bulky compared to the XR 5ah. So for me. It’s either the 5ah XR or the flex volt system. I have no use for the power stack. I like the 1.7 powerstacks for doing drywall or something that doesn’t take lots of power. I like the light weight feel. But putting in deck screws. The 1.7 last 10 minutes if that.
Okay I didn't get to the end of the video so you may have covered this but you know it doesn't say flax or cylinder on the battery pack when you go look at it to buy it
Metabo is great but I gravitate with Makita LXT 18V because it has big tool choice
Thanks man.
Didn't watch you for a while...dude you jacked up!
When do you think dewalt might come out with an 8 10 or 12 ah pouch battery?
Good info 👍
Thanks!
How can you tell by looking at the battery if it’s packed/packet lithium or cylinder…or did I miss that part?
Will the older, lower-powered chargers still charge the pouch batteries; albeit, slower, or does one need to purchase a new charger (expensive)?
Yes, they’re backwards compatible
I wish I have known this a couple weeks ago. just bought several 12.0 batteries. I would have bought the new forge.
I know you just had it for demonstrations with the 2 RIDGID batteries since they don't have a pouch battery (yet) It will be intresting to see once the Max Output EXP tabless Battery (4Ah) is out to see how well it really compares to it's tabbed versions while still using the current cylindrical batteries. I'm guessing those batteries are coming out soon within the next month or 2 with all the RIDGID batterie and heavy draw tool sales going on.
EXP batteries are breathing new life in to Ridgid right now!
@@VCGConstruction I’m about to Buy some Rigid batteries now they have 2 regular 18volt 4Ah for $80 or what else would be better?
Whatcabout flexvolt for dewalf. Is it worth it. I have dcs389 i believe it is. For other stuff i do have few powerstacks but they dont work of 60 volt tools
Are battery brands interchangeable between tool brands? I am a Dewalt Junkie, but their batteries cost more than simply purchasing a new tool. The Flex battery is intriguing. Also, what about quality? We are told how poor Chinese quality is, but one has to wonder if battery cells and/or pouches aren't coming from the same manufacturers.
Tom from Springfield Delco now in Seattle, enjoying listening to a homeboy! Thanks, Bro!
Vic gettin those gainzz 💪😎
Is POUCH available for the M12 platform?
Here in the uk the standard 5ah battery is £55 the powerstack 5ah is £95 each ,so here it pays to get old
Do they make M12 forge battery packs that my current charger will recharge?
I was wondering why ridgids 4ah have been crazy discounted lately must be coming with a new pack soon
You could also buy 3rd party batteries and use corded tools when you need power
i had a dewalt superfast charger about 20 years ago that charged a 3ah nimh battery in 15 minutes and the life cycle of those batteries were a 1000 cycles but with the superfast charger it claimed that the batteries would do 3000 cycles ? 400 cycles seems very poor for lithium ion by comparison , that being said i have dewalt 5 ah batteries that are 8 years old and seem to work just fine
Great information
Glad you liked it
I have Milwaukee and dewalt batteries from 2016 that last as long as brand new equal ah batteries. I’m a mechanic that enjoys woodworking on weekends. Maybe there is a reason.
It's cheaper to rebuild 18650 format battery packs than it costs to rebuild flat lithium polymer batteries. If you just practice good battery charge management, you will experience a 300% charge cycle life like I do with my Ryobi 18v batteries. 300 charge cycles OEM and I get close to 1200 charge cycles before I start to have life cycle regression.
Where are you getting these batteries? One flex 6 ah battery stacked is 250 bucks
I have an old drill that uses nicad batteries. How can I convert it to modern batteries without buying all new batteries and charger?
This is only correct if you dont consider tabless zylindrical cells like the upcoming bosch pro core plus.
DeWalt started it. When will DeWalt come out with a 60 volt powerstack flexvolt battery?
If it gives power faster . Doesn’t that mean the battery will die even faster ? This for meaning you would have to charge more
Man I’m just starting to pickup power tools and I started with m12 since I don’t do anything crazy but looking at the m12 stubby do you recommend it?
Yes
Yes Sir, my brother Vince that you are watching is a great man and an expert on all these power tools and me the Milwaukee M12 Fuel Stubby and M12 Fuel Impact Driver. Some of my favorite tools and love them and use them all the time. I totally 💯 recommend them and I know that you will love them too. And try to get a M12 5ah or 6ah batteries for longer usage and more delivery in power. You will dig it my friend. 🇺🇸
@@VCGConstructionAwesome information and review as always my brother Vince. 🇺🇸
Thanks Slick Rick!
@@VCGConstruction you got it my brother! 🇺🇸
Here in Canada the M18 6.0 HO is about $100 cheaper than the Forge and in some cases they're throwing in the HO with a tool purchase. At this point it's not really worth it to get the Forge. I do own one Forge but I also have a few 8.0 HO which I don't have to charge as often and the performance of the Forge isn't night and day better. In fact I can't notice any difference in performance in my grinder between the Forge and the 8.0
Do you need a special charger for the newer batteries
All backwards compatible
I had the same problem with the stacked pack. Not reliable
We drone fliers use Lipo battery packs and it does pack a punch and does have a higher discharge rate. but we kill lipo (puffed) packs all the time. once one of the cell pack is puffed, the whole pack is done.. and it's a pain to replace as well. which is why we just chuck it out. don't know why they charging so much for these lipo packs. I would rather stick with 18650 or 21700 lion instead of lipo cells.
Well, you haven't mentioned that IF pouch cell gets damaged it's much more complex to find bad cell and replace it (which is quite easy to do with cylindrical cells) so IF a person knows how to fix bad cells and have tools for that it might be cheaper to change bad cell and keep using that same battery. Howewer in case of pouch cells even if you will find bad cell in pack (which makes whole pack unusable since it won't keep voltage at same level under load) you will have a really-really hard time to find exact size pouch cell, most likely you won't be able to find it at all and even IF you will find one it will be almost impossible to replace (in case we want that battery to stay safe for us, not just make it usable again at any cost).
Great information
The coffee you drink must be super strong be careful I just went to the er for that reason
Have a great day
I have a question, doesn't fast charge (or super charge) shortens life spam of the battery? I've seen videos about uber drivers super charge their car daily result in battery dying super early and having to be replaced. I'm wondering those 1200 cycle is normal charge or on super charge?
. Apparently you still want to charge your batteries with the slowest charger you can to lengthen the life of your batteries. And the benefit of slow charging is really up for debate. Does it turn a five year battery into a four year battery, a three year battery, or even like a 4.75 year battery? That’s definitely up for debate but fast charging does shorten the battery life to some degree
I bought the new dual port super charger with an M18 6.0 Forge battery for 299.00 at Acme Tool in February
Nice, how’s it working for you?
It's working great
Awesome Lemuel, thanks for the feedback!
Real good explanation of battery technology
Nice breakdown. I’m wondering when we’re gonna see flexvolt stackpacks. Seems like the next logical step for DeWalt.
Great point!
Can you do this with a Dewalt fkexvolt❤
I question the charge cycle counts based on the idea of the type of usage. Example - Grinders cutting heavy gauge metal are high demand and heat the batteries up fast or a Lawnmower, same example. Where a light puts very little demand on the battery and, in theory, should last longer. As to number charges, many a Milwaukee is only capable of a maximum of 1,200 charges at moderate usage, where a German Metabo is in the 2,000 + charge range at moderate usage. The point is, in my opinion, the conversation is way more complicated than what has been presented. Cool video, and I think you should expand on this conversation, Vince.
I agree that cylindrical cell packs get extremely hot under heavy load with grinder use. Because of the efficiency of pouch we won’t see the same damage done by these higher draw tools.
German Metabo was at the forefront of battery technology and helped develop the 21700 cylindrical cells. They definitely incorporated more cooling to get more wattage in and out of the cells more efficiently which leads to much longer pack life. Met with their director of Marketing a few years back at their office not far from us, he really opened my eyes about battery technology. Some of the stuff he talked about years ago is just now starting to make sense in the bigger picture.
@VCGConstruction That's awesome. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at that meeting.
I'm going to keep using cylindrical cell batteries until there's more long term analysis of pouch cells. In most applications the pouch cell has a shorter lifespan than the cylindrical cell counterpart, they're also more likely to explode than cylindrical cell and if I get injured and can't work, then the cost per charge of the battery is irrelevant.
Not to say it doesn't look promising and the benefits are really there. I just want to see the long term data first as I'm not having any issues with cylindrical cell packs. The reduced weight for my gen 3 fuel high torque would be nice but that gun is only there for the apocalyptic torque situation or removing wheels.
I'm not sure I can take advise from someone wearing only two pairs of glasses. I like to see at least three or preferably four pairs worn before I'm convinced.
I subscribed to this channel after watching a handful of vids the last 10 days or so. Many TH-cam channels have content that I love, I love working with my hands, tools, carpentry, finishing carpentry, automotive, electrical etc. SO many of these channels are let's just say, "tits on a bull". This channel has USEFUL topics, doesn't "sugar coat" ANYTHING and can be funny while doing it. Thank you for giving us viewers your time and effort, it has educated me alot.
Thanks we appreciate the kind words!
I'm guessing that the cost per charge cycle analysis doesn't apply to Ridgid, since their batteries (under Ridgid's LSA) never expire.
The old ones are great you can buy new cells and refurbish these yourself as opposed to the flat battery cells.
I got friends and neighbors that will no longer charge batteries in their homes garages and work shops. People are not getting enough information. Most people around here are going back to corded tools.
Will the Milwaukee mower which uses (2) M18 12.0 HO batteries run on (2) 6.0 FORGE batteries?
Should with no problem but you’ll get half the runtime.
Anyone with a cursory understanding of battery technology knows that the smaller package with the same W/Hr is the better of the two (being respectable brands).
The 2.0 power stack is pretty useless in a high output demand tool ie hammer drill or sawzaw
Hercules batteries are the best bang for the buck!
I won't ever get the pouch batteries if phones show you anything the pouches expand and will fail early or worse explode well before you get all those charge cycles. Unless they fixed that, but i don't think they have as dvery phone iv had has bad battery expansion.
If you hsve had your phone fir 3-5 years and have a case on it i recommend taking that case off and see if the back of the phone is pushed out some bet it is unless you don't use the phone to often.😅
Yes sir Vince. The tool batteries of today are very much different and better. I remember 20- 25 years ago they were not near as good or powerful. The days of the ni cade
I can build m18 12ah packs for $100 while using the same samsung cells that Milwaukee uses so cost is much better with Cylindrical.