The Bonehunters (Malazan #6) by Steven Erikson Book Review & Reaction | SPOILER TALK Part 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Mike talks spoilers for the second half of The Bonehunters. This includes Book 3 - Shadows of the King, Book 4 - The Bonehunters, and the epilogue.
Purchase The Bonehunters here: amzn.to/3uNyCcw (physical) amzn.to/3uMZiu1 (digital) amzn.to/3adcajB (audio)
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“Trying to figure out what Malazan characters are going to do is like trying to figure out my wife - not going to happen.” Unfortunately, I was drinking tea when you said that and had to spit it out while laughing. The confusing, the sad, the awesome - So cool to hear your thoughts, my friend!
Heh. Glad someone else knows the reality of this.
Literally thought I woke my wife up from a nap laughing at that part!
@@kevinrutledge7565 I'm guessing that a few of us married men had similar reactions!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'm not married, but have been in a twelve year relationship, and she still messes with me. It's mostly good fun, but since I'm usually the nearest person to hand, I've had to learn to duck flying frypans (metaphorically)...
Recently read the scene in MoI where Korlat storms into Whiskeyjack's tent ready to give him hell, until she calms down after seeing what's actually going on. Let's say that resonated with me...
@@marsrock316 Ha ha! Yes, we’ve all had our Whiskeyjack moments, I suspect.
So, two things to note:
1) Tarlack Veed was told by the Nameless Ones where to go with Icarium, so it can be assumed he was bringing Icarium to the Edur. *Especially* since when we see him on an Edur ship he's assuring them that Icarium is the challenger that will manage to destroy their emperor like he'd "already done before."
2) Malick Rel has that much power and influence because Lasseen's purge from Deadhouse Gates failed, and powerful nobles and members of the Malaz military were still loyal to that god damn snake. Because Laseen didn't think that her own organization, the Claw, was as corrupted by him as it was. And with Topper missing and the rebellions everywhere, she just doesn't have the resources to fight him without the Bonehunters to back her up, which is why she was basically begging Tavore and Kalam to help her.
Kalam John Wicking his way through Malaz City is up there as among my favourite parts of this series.
Very cool.
Hi Mike, great video and really interesting views. I always look forward to hearing your thoughts.
As to the Deck of Dragons, think of them as super powerful Tarot Cards. People use Tarot to predict the future, but in Malazan they are more connected to the actual gods and the conflicts going on. So a deck reading is like a tarot reading but it has added resonance and importance because they are more directly connected to what the gods are doing.
As to Dejim thinking he is better than he is, it is a great contrast to both Trull and Brys. Trull and Brys consistently underestimate how good they are because they see how much more they have to learn and they have respect for other people's abilities and don't think that they are that much better, whereas Dejim is so arrogant that he believes he is all powerful. So I think he is a great mirror of that aspect of their characters.
Fiddler had two of my favourite moments in this book - when he played the game, and when he played the music
Man Trull holding his own against Icarium getting tossed spear after spear was one of my fist pumping the air while reading moments. So good! 😃
Yeah, it was awesome.
The convergence of characters was so gripping in this book, especially when certain characters land in opposition with one another. I’m not much of a predictor, especially in this series, so I was captivated seeing that unfold. I enjoyed hearing what you had to say about how Dujek Onearm’s passing from the plague shows a more realistic portrayal than if he had died in a blaze of glory. Always wonderful hearing your thoughts, Mike!
This I think is what you begin to see over the books. Convergence. The introduction of varying views on people and events, that describe an era of convergence. Of powers attracted to powers. It’s a set of accounts of Malazan, and The Fallen.
Taralak having kind of a meltdown after seeing Icarium truly unleashed was fun
The jade stuff was wild as I understood it tho Paran made a deal with Hood so that Heboric could even tho he already was dead do his Shield Anvil thing and did what Itkovian did with the Imass but yeah that was one of those "what is happening?" Moments
I felt the same way about the 14th. Don’t even try to replace my bridge burners. It’s never gonna happen.
Then at some point over in the next couple books you’ll realize Erikson did it again and that you love the new soldiers too.
Hoping to have that same experience.
Ganoes gets love. So happy!
Also
Mike after the first part: I believe understood it all.
Steve: heh sweet summer child. Green orbs fall!
Mike:…. And we’re back to form
💯
I do love me some Bottle. Glad you had a great time with this one - definitely one of my favorites among the 10 big books.
Bottle is just the goodest boy. He just it.
@@Ashencrowe At least he is looking through the eyes of the goodest boy.
12:45 now that you mention Shadowthrone: I really find it funny how Iskaral Pust is almost exactly like him. And I love the dynamic of Mule and Iskaral. Iskaral insulting him and saying he had a clash of wits with a lot of mules over the time and almost always comes on top😂 and that one time Mule let Iskaral fall out of the saddle and then farting at him😂😂 and in short I think Mule is Shadowthrone
lol "The Apostrophe Gods" - Malazan is a post-apostrophe world
Only appropriate name I can give them.
I'm one of those who was pretty much a fan of Ganoes from the beginning. He's always been one of my favorites.
Once you read The Paths to Ascendancy books, you'll see Shadowthrone was an arrogant prick even when he had absolutely nothing to back it up. Dancer is a very patient friend to put up with him.
I actually love how you're comparing the Bonehunters to the Bridgeburners disfavorably, it's something people in the books do as well and they get proven wrong too. Now on to Reaper's Gale and the bossfight against Rhulad!
I am on book 7. This book might be my favourite so far, tied with book 5. Bonehunters has such an emotional ending that makes so much sense for book 7 to happen. I love the tragic destinies in these books.
I had the exact same thoughts about House of Chains as you when I finished this book. At the time I read HOC I was disappointed with what I thought was a sequel to deadhouse gates, but after learning how much of the stuff I loved in Bonehunters (including the 14th you monster! /s) was set up in HOC I know hold a lot of the moments from that book in a higher light
This almost knocked Deadhouse off of my number 1 favorite list too but while I found this book to be the most enjoyable read of the series so far it didn't have the same impact for me that DG had. Still it's firmly in my number 2 position.
Still at the half point but I can answer 2 of your questions (with no spoilers).
As for the Jade Hands and who saves them (Paran or Ghost Hands) Paran is talking to Hood and since Ghost Hands died a few episodes earlier you can connect the dots and understand what Hood and Paran agreements was (atleast the how to save the world part not the payment that Hood wants from Paran).
Thanks for the review. I don't have anyone to discuss with so it's nice to hear your thoughts. I had to take a break from malazan for a couple years. Came back to it and slammed through this fantastic book.
Here's a fun idea for a thought experiment: Let's do an office pool on the total number of times you have uttered any variation of the following in your Malazan vids: 'I don't know/understand...', 'This part went over my head...', 'I have no idea about...'
Yeah if you’re looking for someone with clarity on this series I’d recommend A Critical Dragon over myself.
Read The Crimson Guard to find out how Rel and Korbolo squirmed into power it's all set on Quan Tali with epic battles and closure on a few lose knots. Reapers Gale is gonna blow you away.
Sorry you didnt liked the tavore scenes in the end, those were tense. Really good read
Actually Karsa crossed path with characters from Midnight Tide all the way back in House of Chains. Keep that in mind when reading Reaper's Gale and you will see how ;)
Alexander the Great died from disease. Maybe that was Erickson's inspiration for Dujek's death.
Makes sense.
Really enjoyed this. I always come to see what you thought after I finish one - now I just need to find Reapers' Gale for sale somewhere.
Just finished rereading Reaper’s Gale and it’s my favorite book.
Let’s get ready to rumbleeeeeee.
Does anyone want to mention that if you want a slight break, but also want to try out Esselmont, now is the perfect time to read Return of the Crimson Guard. I know you are just doing the 10 of the Fallen series. However this is the point where the crazy interweaving cuts in and you see the full extent of the madness that are these books. Also I don't think you will be disappointed.
I agree about the Empress. We hear what kind of genius ruler she is supposed to be and somehow she lets Mallick Rel and Korbolo Dom get this high positions, makes them spread these vile rumors that Coltaine and the 7th were somehow the traitors and these 2 one of which did kill several 1000 Malazan refugees back in 7 Cities and the other who was responsible for Aren's 10k army surrendering and their execution without even drawing their weapons are in fact the heroes all along and so they genocide the wickans, dismiss all treaties and want to take the wickan plain and make it into farmland... I still don't know why Kalam didn't kill the Empress back in Deadhouse Gates (well she wasn't really there but he should have learnt her whereabouts and killed her)
I think Laseen is capable as an Empress most of the time, but by the end of Bonehunters, she basically made the biggest fuckup of all time. How I interpreted it is that she had two main problems: The people in the Malazan Empire weren't happy with the Empire because of their recent failures, and Tavore wasn't very popular in Seven Cities because she had to live up to the legacy of Coltaine, which makes it harder for her to solve the Seven Cities issue. So, Laseen's master plan, which goes incredibly wrong, is to use the Wickans and other foreigners as scapegoats, turning them into the target of the people's hatred and discrediting Coltaine at the same time, so basically killing two birds with one stone. But, to do that she had to improve Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rel's reputation. She underestimated Rel, and he basically eliminated her allies, infiltrating the Claw, putting Topper on the run, isolating Tayschrenn, etc. So at the end of the book, Laseen basically makes a gamble to save herself, betting on three different possibilities: 1) That Tavore would remain loyal to her, surrender the Wickans and Khundryl, and give Laseen the 14th Army so she can protect herself, or 2) in case that didn't happen, Kalam would choose to stay with her as Clawmaster and assassinate Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rel for the good of the Empire, or 3) in case even that didn't happen, let Pearl assassinate them instead as Clawmaster after killing Kalam or making him flee. So basically, all three of those gambles blew up in her face and now she's boned
Very much an intermediate book for Karsa. Shows where he’s headed in book 7 more so, than a huge force in book 6. Steve had to get him there
Can't wait!
Thanks Mike I just finished Bonehunters and the first thing I do is watch your spoiler talk video. Go Mariners
And first mention of Iskar Jarak :D
As someone having read Malazan 5 times, I cannot agree with that opening sentence more. There is no argument I have ever heard that justifies the mind-numbing stupidity of Laseen throwing over her strongest army, her own Adjunct, Kalam Mekhar, the remnants of Dujek's Host, and anyone loyal to them for...Mallick Rel, the Jhistal, and a propaganda stunt that intentionally vilifies the Wickans who died saving Malazan civilians.
That trade is something I'd pull on friends with baseball cards. Not as a serious political ploy. No, anyone trying to tell me Laseen was playing 4D chess after this must be reading a different series. She was not just cruel in Deadhouse Gates, she's proven she is incompetent at the reason she said she "needed" to act. She cannot rule. So she actively invites people who have already betrayed her into her confidence.
Yeah. That will end well.
Nodding in agreement.
i'm glad you liked this one, the character convergence, and for me the thematic momentum, continue in Reaper's Gale. I read them back to back and can't decide which I liked better, but i definitely needed a break after. I'm hoping to finish Toll the Hounds before you get to it, i'm halfway through...
going to spend the day finishing Bonehunters... see you in the morning Mike!
23:43 YAASSSS I COMPLETELY AGREE!! This was the one aspect of the story that took me out of the book. When I was reading I was thinking Laseen HAS to know the truth of Rel and Dom but how the hell did she let them rise up? Why were they not beheaded immedately after Deadhouse Gates or why weren't the Claw dispatched to castrate and kill these two? I get she needs supporters but she really must have been asleep on the watch to let those two snakes regain power. I understand she does everything for the good of the empire, but she's doing an absolutely horrible job up to this point and maybe needs to realize that what's best for the empire is someone else on the throne and should just step down. (sorry for the thesis I was just so ANNOYED at this part lol)
Finished it last night, great book to end the year on! I'm glad I'm not the only one who got confused on some bits.
Pleased you enjoyed this book, Mike. Highlights for me are the conflagration at Y'Ghatan, Kalam's flight through Malaz city and Icarium's rage. By the way, you must have missed the part about Icarium & Taralack meeting the Tiste Edur ... it does happen, they don't just "teleport" onto the fleet.
Not ignoring your videos just been busy at work. I'll be back when I catch up
The action was relentless towards the end, I probably preferred Kalam, T'Amber and Apsalar's (offscreen) fights over the Icarium handicap match. Though that still counts as one of the most epic Malazan scenes I've read. Laseen's motives seem a bit cloudy perhaps, as to why she allowed Grima 1 and Grima 2 to weasel their way up. Maybe she's thinking of the bigger picture from her perspective, go with the flow and take out the Wickans, but obviously we as readers, specially after Deadhouse Gates, cannot relate to that line of reasoning.
I think we had seen Kalam kick ass before, whereas we just kept hearing about what Icarium was capable of. That's why it stuck out more for me.
It implies the deal he made with hood was to let someone come back to life. Where next heborics body comes alive while the jade reaches up to stop the sky falling
“Spoiler” animal companions come back too lol - 50 pages later Grayfrog is like welcome back my people
you have fell in love with the bone hunters and don't realize it until you read reapers gale
I thought that the Bonehunters was pretty good, but Deadhouse Gates is still my favourite
I imagine I'll go back and forth on those two.
Expecting the fight between Icarius and Karsa makes me as sad as expcting the battle between Logen and Shivers in Red Country...
Exactly! I was thinking of Shivers and Gorst in Best Served Cold. I wanted to see that fight, but I didn’t want either character to die.
Holy $hi+!!! That Logan vs Shivers stare down... So good. So, so good.
If there's one criticism I have of this series, it's that I wish dead people would stay dead :/
It would help the emotional impact of certain moments so that I don't get a feeling of, "hmm what if this death isn't even real".
Happy Sunday
Wanted to hear from you!
This series, as confusing as it can be, still makes more sense than my wife.
Don't worry about Karsa being stabbed through the heart. He has 2 (and 4 lungs).
18:00 Dujek deserved better😭😭
I literally just watched that episode of Supernatural today lol. (S10E02, give or take for anyone interested)
I dig your Karsa concerns! I forget how much great imagery The Bonehunters has with-in its pages. I think your comment about time being squishy has a lot to do with the apostrophe gods.
Keep that deal in the back of your head.💀
By the last book you will care so much about the Bonehunters you will need a saline drip to keep you hydrated. You are going to laugh hysterically and cry so profusely take care to read alone. Otherwise you might end up sedated in a straight jacket in a secure lock up. Don't say I didn't warn you.
I had a lot of fun with this book, but I also found myself really confused with the suns and Jade hands... 🤷♀️
the jade fingers are related to the cripple god and paranoias send them to HOOD ( the dead do not die )
You need at least 3 readings to capture all.
You don't like Corabb, Hellian, Urb, Fiddler, Gesler, Stormy, Pores, kindly, Kalam?
Yes, meh, who, yes, meh, kinda, who, I guess, and yes.
@@mikesbookreviews Hellian is much deeper than just some drunk. Stick with her, and her two handlers, Mike - when her moment comes, she's gonna grab your heart.
@@Ashencrowe Grab your heart or grab your liver? 😁
I think the Deck of Dragons was inspired more by Tarot than Magic the Gathering, but what do i know?
More than I do, it sounds like. Ha.
The deck of dragons is basically like tarot cards for the malazan world
Also Mike we need more on gruntle lol 😁
Lol 🤣 redrum on your door
Remember it's all a machine.
Mike have you met Beak yet. I'm deep in the lore just hard for me too remeber which books some times. Either way keep an eye out my bro.
No, Reaper's Gale
I completely missed the whole whiskey Jack is Iscar. When did this happen?
It’s just a theory on the Discord. Not anything from the page.
"You got wasted anyway tho" - Rofl
R U ever going to return to Malazan?
I don't think Laseen was ever a good leader. I look at it like the Malazan Empire died when she "killed" Kellanved and Dancer, she's just been there to oversee the funeral.
My main problem with TBH revolves around the fact that every tight spot and climax of this book was solved by the Eres'al. I felt robbed of a satisfying conclusion because every problem was completely or almost solved by the time traveling furry woman who raped Trull and gives Bottle some random fun time... rather than all the characters we were following for all these pages
Very fair criticism.
Jade stuff - RAFO
:D