Toc is a spy, like you said he realized he's not some awesome powerful figure like the others, so he figured he'd spy things up and see what he could do.
As I went through I realized I did a whole lot less reviewing as much as I just reacted. Either way, lots of fun to read and make content around. Look forward to talking with you about Malazan in the future!
Spindle’s shirt is one of many colorful facets of the Malazan world, and, yes, Anomander Rake knows how to make an entrance. Sword arms on giant lizards - yeah, Erikson goes for it. We can talk about Toc’s “decision” sometime if you like, but it helped me to think about his options. Staying with Lady Envy, for example, would have been certain death or, at best, slavery. Team Kruppe unite! I agree entirely about Erikson’s prose. Lots of emotions here, and it was a pleasure to listen to your reactions, Jimmy!
I was also frustrated by Toc at first, but I think his decisions also go along with the book/series theme of compassion. He can make a difference, even at a small level, even if it only matters to one person, even if he has to suffer, he'll take that option.
@@ShelfCentered Well said! I think you’re right about a big part part of his motivation. There’s also his obligation as a Malazan intelligence officer to scope out the enemy. And he would have died in Envy’s company.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yeah, she the part of living forever that loses the ability (if she ever had it) to have any empathy. She finds it all very quaint and heads full throttle toward her goals
@@ShelfCentered I've only just started The Bonehunters but I feel like there's some degree of empathy there but it's not a human empathy of that makes sense.
Tok does not become a cannibal, it is said explicitly that he does not eat or speak and Pannionians think that he has some kind of pledge not to eat until they win and his eye constantly radiates hunger.
for the little time we got with WJ and rake friendship it was so phenomenal and probably my favorite moments in the story. it still boggles my mind when people say erikson can’t write characters. cant wait to see how you feel about karsa orlong and the sengar family.
Toc was pretty sure that if he stuck with Envy's party, he'd end up dead. Also, as I remember, his background was as a spy, so he figured he could infiltrate the pannion army without being figured out. Additionally, he wants to get back to the Malazan forces, and he figured that the pannion army is pretty much guaranteed to move towards the Malazan forces eventually, and so it would in a way, be the safest way to get to them. At least that is how I remember it. Also, its nice to see someone really appreciating the great character-work with Whiskeyjack and Rake in this book through their interactions. I feel like its often an underappreciated part of this book.
Glad you liked it! The interactions and relationship building between WJ and Rake is prob my favorite part of the book! I think Toc's background is the big piece I was missing when thinking about this huge decision
@@BooksRebound agreed! I'm about to start binging your content now that I see you have some Adrian Tchaikovsky stuff. I just read Children of Time last week, and very much enjoyed it.
One of my favourite moments in the series so far is Whiskyjack squaring up to Kallor and Rake in defence of Silverfox. And also when Rake tells Lady Envy that if he'd known she was in the castle he would have brought Moon's Spawn all the way down lmao
What a great video. At 15:23 it made me lift my head from my jigsaw, and exclaim out loud "WHUT?" With no context but having listened to you and the booktube professors about the series - I'm invested!
Just finished the book and wow what a ride! I’m taking a break from Malazan because these 3 books practically took up my whole summer. I looked at the Dramatis Personae of House of Chains and I’m a bit intimidated to dive back in. I don’t think I’m mentally ready to reset with a whole new cast of characters. I’m now full steam ahead with Grace of Kings 👍🏽
I'm rarely reading outside of SciFi genre, so I appreciate these videos a lot. I feel like I'm at least a little in the know with whats going on in fantasy. Great episode.
For your thoughts on Crone, I also think she's a pretty good character. And it *was* shown to us that she's powerful. It was in Gardens of the Moon, when she very casually removed Baruk's wards. And we know Baruk is not weak, so for her to do it so casually was a taste of her power. I think this was the only thing, though. AND YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT, KRUPPE IS AWESOME. I like him very much
You keep hitting the nail on the head. I may have to re read to keep up with all the new readers. It's been 4 years since I read Malazan for a 3rd time and I'm a little fuzzy on some of the details. I'll stay tuned.
I loved this review so much, just had a smile on my face the whole time. All the awesome, weird, nutty, crazy that is Malazan you have pointed out and are loving and that just makes me happy because of how much I love it all
@@thefantasynuttwork I totally agree with you about how much you are rewarded. I've never been more rewarded by a book than by a Malazan book and then it happens 10 times in a row. Team Kruppe all the way!
**Spoilers** The scene in Coral when some of the Bridgeburners ran into Tool and he was going to save his "brother"; Toc. Brought a tear to my eye, I was like "Go get him, Tool". If not my favourite duo in the series, so far, definitely Top 3. Also loved Bauchelain & Korbal Broach and really looking forward to reading their spin-off novellas. Not a fan of Gruntle. I like Kruppe, but, more of a Iskaral Pust fan myself. I adore Quick Ben, very strong contender for my favourite wizard in Fantasy. Yeah man, Lady Envy is one of my favourite characters in the series.
MoI is where you realize Malazan is just something different. Trying to avoid spoilers in comments but some random thoughts Envy is just over the top. Itkovian does have some of the best quotes. I and Dr. Chase got something in our eye while rereading the call back in the epilogue. Mike had a similar reaction about Gruntle of a complete reversal in a few pages. Curious if you have to completely reshuffle your ranking order as you go along and more gets revealed. Looking forward to your continued reviews and Knives.
Yeah I agree. The siege of Capustan was just amazing. One of the best I’ve ever read. I genuinely believe that Erickson writes the best epic battle scenes. Joe Abercrombie for me is the best for writing close combat scenes, but Erickson is the king of epic battle scenes for me.
Excellent review, Jimmy! I scanned to see if Allen has commented yet because he and I were also very caught off guard by Toc bolting the way he did. Spindle's shirt is very weird, indeed, and I love that we have such strange touches like that throughout the series. Did you expect the characters to be as fantastic as they are in this series? I've lost count of how many I love. I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts!
The biggest misconception I had going into Malazan was that I'd not have any characters I'd enjoy..I've become very fond of Erikson's cast and enjoy his characterization. Malazan is just so different, and for me a breathe of fresh air.
@@thefantasynuttwork Malazan is commonly described as not character-driven, and while it has a different approach in some respects, the characters are at the heart of the series. It's just not one character or one group. It's brilliant the way Erikson is able to do that, and in a different way than Martin who also has a gift for engaging readers with a massive cast!
@@Johanna_reads yeah and I think this approach results in less "dead" storylines for the books. Meaning when you delve so deep into characters each time it can be a huge miss if a reader doesn't care for the character. For instance, and I do not feel this way, a lot of people dislike Dany chapters in ADWD so it brings their overall enjoyment down. I feel like the approach Erikson takes is easier to get around that type of issue. I'm sure there's a better way to decipher the two but I'm not knowledgeable enough to do that, need Philip or AP on the case lol
@@thefantasynuttwork Oh wow! I loved Dany's chapters in ADWD! 😅 As to your point though, there are so many storylines in Malazan that all interconnect through theme if not plot. I have had the experience of not connecting to some storylines as much as others (like in Reaper's Gale), but usually I find there is always so much there to reflect on, even if I didn't get a strong emotional response while reading it. It's interesting to compare those two series though!
@@thefantasynuttwork Oh, I just remembered lol I never told you but I did ask Brian Lee Durfee to come onto Chatting with Nutts like I promised lol But I will admit that I did it rather indirectly, it was a sort of meta-textual joke XD He did not acknowledge joke but he's a smart guy so I'm sure he got it (I didn't expect him to acknowledge it because that would have both ruined the joke and there it would be silly for him to make big time commitments like that in a random YT comment lol) If you are curious just go to the video on his channel of his review of "From a Buick 8" by Stephen King and read the comment I left him lol
Actually I believe Whiskeyjack not getting his leg fully repaired was because Hood and a grudge against him because Whiskeyjack refused to let his younger sister remain in Hood's priesthood. Hood subtly manipulated Jack's emotions to have it put off, which wouldn't be hard as Whiskeyjack naturally thought of others first. It's a quit reveal in easily missed.
late to this video but just read this part. When Kilava came to talk to Tool and met with Toc, K'rul spoke to Tok and told him that he had to go into the embrace of the Pannion in order to release their followers. K'rul also spoke to Lady Envy and discussed how their whole party were tools of his
I love how you pick out all these things that I forget I loved and lift them out so I can enjoy what I enjoyed while reading, all over again. If that makes sense :D
For my money you do the best Malazan reviews on TH-cam! You asked us to explain Toc’s bad decision, and unfortunately I think this is a case of an author pulling strings that don’t make sense, and Erikson really should have made that decision make more sense. I loved seeing all your reactions!!
@@thefantasynuttwork Toc was pushed into it by K'rul, who compelled him to go to the heart of the Pannion and eventually release the Ay spirit. "She seeks … redress. The realization flooded Toc’s mind, and he knew that the knowledge was not his, but an Elder God’s. Who now spoke directly, in a voice that trickled like sand into the Malazan’s thoughts. [...] It is difficult - a risk beyond imagining - but I must send you into the Seer’s embrace. I do not think you will forgive me." edit: nevermind, just saw a comment saying the same 😂
I know this is a year old, but I just started my Memories of Ice re-read today, and your overflowing enthusiasm has made me eager and excited to get into it! Thanks Jimmy! 😀👌🏻 And yes, go Team Kruppe!
Hi I have read garden of the moon 🌓 book by Steven Erickson.. it was good confusing 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️ still kept reading.. look forward reading the rest of the series!!! Happy reading to you!! 📖🍁🍂
I loved the Siege of Capustan but damn the aftermath of the Battle at Coral: the Bridgeburners, Whiskeyjack, Itkovian. And then at the end Toc being reborn as Mortal Sword of Togg in Anaster's body and Duiker and him telling the remaining Bridgeburners of the Chain of Dogs. I gotta say I think I have no heart cuz I didn't cry at the end but I should have
Just finished my third read of this book yesterday. By now I think I have the pronunciations down. I believe it is pronounced K’Chain Shae Mail. (Upon multiple reads I could finally slow down and really absorb the details). Will begin my 2nd read of book 4 shortly. BTW the Karkanss Trilogy is amazing! I believe book 1 is SE’s best work fyi. Cheers
8:11, I like to think of the Malazan Characters in the contex of the 'Fate, Stay, Night' anime series and cast them in the categories of the 7 legendary heroes. Anomander, Dassem and Tool as sabers, Trull as lancer, Cotillion, Absalar, Kallam as assassin, Icarium, Caladan as beserker, etm
Hi Jimmy, great review. One note with HUUUUGE SPOILER MARK concerning the why of Toc's choices. I'm not exactly sure when it's disscussed but I think Kruppe(?) and K'rull have a conversation where it's revealed that K'rull basically forced Toc to make that choice in order to distract the Pannion seer from fully concentrating on the relevant battles or something and then granting him Anasters body was to be a reward.
@@thefantasynuttwork You also may want to consider the following calculation that Toc may have run in his head: 1. I am a trained scout and spy and have been trained in infiltration by the sneakiest spies in the world. 2. If I stay with these overpowered fools I WILL end up dead as they cannot possibly protect me against what they are wading into. 3. I have survived on my own in worse situations than this... I survived being thrown into chaos after all. 4. What is that buzzing in my head? I feel myself being swayed by a mysterious force that is making this calculation seem a lot more one sided than it should be. 5. Sure, they say that they are cannibals that have no food, but really, there must be some food somewhere, no one would ever run an army like this. There must be some mistake or exaggeration. 6. It may be that I have an overly inflated sense of how well this is going to turn out, but a choice between what I see as certain death with weird dreams and psychotic killers, or a choice between maybe surviving undetected in a mass of mad humans who won't pay any attention to anyone else and who are heading toward my friends and fellow soldiers... Lastly, Toc is also only human and can make mistakes like anyone else. He doesn't have all the information we have, and choosing between two bad choices will always result in you making a bad choice. We just know that from his perspective Envy was predatory, scary, and prone to fits of pique and whimsical decision making, Tool couldn't guarantee his safety in battle nor protect him against Envy if she decided she was mad at him, and the Seguleh didn't care about him at all. Plus, Gods directly messing with mortals for their own plans and nefarious ends, that is becoming commonplace by now. maybe he just needs some hugs... like lots of hugs... 🙄🙄
@@ACriticalDragon fabulous response. I definitely was willing to be ignorant and or wrong about the said decision, which is why I asked for comments like this haha. I'm thankful for it! Hugs 😭
Spoiler . . . . . There is a reason for Whiskeyjack not having his leg fully healed. It is given in a later book (The Bonehunters, if I remember correctly). His fate was not pre-ordained and free will does indeed exist in the Malazan world.
I’m also starting Midnight Tides. I have to say though despite what I’ve heard others say I really enjoyed HoC’s very much!! Great review Jimmy, I always look forward to what you have to say!!
Fantastic thoughts! I really enjoyed this, rhe solidarity of Toc's bizarre decision-making skills, and the Tool love, but we part ways on Kruppe and Silvefox lol. Also, Kallor is awful. 😛
I just finished Memories of Ice and I've been loving Malazan so far. However I don't read that much, like an hour a day and feel like if I try to get through all 10 books it would feel like a slog and I think I need a break from the series. Would you recommend a break after Memories of Ice or at what point, if at any point at all? I'm hesitant to Google to avoid spoilers.
The climax with Rake and Moon spawn just didn’t seem to fit with his character. Also the Imas part at the end I thought was stupid. I’ve loved the series so far, but MOI just wasn’t what I expected. Almost done with The bone hunters and this is my favorite book so far in the series.
Really enjoyed the format of this review. The way you broke the book down and followed your reading notes kept the review flowing and allowed you to cover a lot of major points and smaller events that I've seen other reveiwers gloss over. Of course this is a huge and dense novel so I understand not everything can be discussed but overall this was an excellent review and I appreciated your thoughts. Will definitely be back for the next Malazan video when I'm done with House of Chains
Spindles shirt is made of his dead mother's hair.
@@AndySmithMN DONE
“Malazan isn’t grmdark” :p
Doesn't it talk to him too?
@@ShelfCentered yes!!!!
I remember being terrified for him when his shirt caught fire but luckily the hair grows to fix the holes.
“I am the Shield Anvil, and I am not yet done, behold! I yield to nothing.”
Chills man
I am not yet done!
Toc is a spy, like you said he realized he's not some awesome powerful figure like the others, so he figured he'd spy things up and see what he could do.
yeah, I think that does make the decision seem less plot convenient
Hi Jimmy, great to hear that enjoyed this one. I am looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on the books. This was a lot of fun to listen to.
As I went through I realized I did a whole lot less reviewing as much as I just reacted. Either way, lots of fun to read and make content around. Look forward to talking with you about Malazan in the future!
@@thefantasynuttwork Anytime.
Spindle’s shirt is one of many colorful facets of the Malazan world, and, yes, Anomander Rake knows how to make an entrance. Sword arms on giant lizards - yeah, Erikson goes for it. We can talk about Toc’s “decision” sometime if you like, but it helped me to think about his options. Staying with Lady Envy, for example, would have been certain death or, at best, slavery. Team Kruppe unite! I agree entirely about Erikson’s prose. Lots of emotions here, and it was a pleasure to listen to your reactions, Jimmy!
Thanks for checking it out Philip! It seems I may need to have you and AP sort me out on all this Toc business!
I was also frustrated by Toc at first, but I think his decisions also go along with the book/series theme of compassion. He can make a difference, even at a small level, even if it only matters to one person, even if he has to suffer, he'll take that option.
@@ShelfCentered Well said! I think you’re right about a big part part of his motivation. There’s also his obligation as a Malazan intelligence officer to scope out the enemy. And he would have died in Envy’s company.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yeah, she the part of living forever that loses the ability (if she ever had it) to have any empathy. She finds it all very quaint and heads full throttle toward her goals
@@ShelfCentered I've only just started The Bonehunters but I feel like there's some degree of empathy there but it's not a human empathy of that makes sense.
Tok does not become a cannibal, it is said explicitly that he does not eat or speak and Pannionians think that he has some kind of pledge not to eat until they win and his eye constantly radiates hunger.
Yeah I got it incorrect
HD is taking a long time to process, sorry about that!
for the little time we got with WJ and rake friendship it was so phenomenal and probably my favorite moments in the story. it still boggles my mind when people say erikson can’t write characters. cant wait to see how you feel about karsa orlong and the sengar family.
Sengar family is awesome and Karsa is horrifying lol
I love Erikson's characterization
Toc was pretty sure that if he stuck with Envy's party, he'd end up dead. Also, as I remember, his background was as a spy, so he figured he could infiltrate the pannion army without being figured out. Additionally, he wants to get back to the Malazan forces, and he figured that the pannion army is pretty much guaranteed to move towards the Malazan forces eventually, and so it would in a way, be the safest way to get to them. At least that is how I remember it.
Also, its nice to see someone really appreciating the great character-work with Whiskeyjack and Rake in this book through their interactions. I feel like its often an underappreciated part of this book.
Glad you liked it! The interactions and relationship building between WJ and Rake is prob my favorite part of the book!
I think Toc's background is the big piece I was missing when thinking about this huge decision
You're getting close to reading my favorite book, which is 7 Reapers Gale. Im enjoying your reviews. Can't wait to watch more of your content.
Thank you for watching 👍
@@BooksRebound agreed! I'm about to start binging your content now that I see you have some Adrian Tchaikovsky stuff. I just read Children of Time last week, and very much enjoyed it.
There are dozens of us!!! RG gang
One of my favourite moments in the series so far is Whiskyjack squaring up to Kallor and Rake in defence of Silverfox. And also when Rake tells Lady Envy that if he'd known she was in the castle he would have brought Moon's Spawn all the way down lmao
@@Andrew-ss7jd hahahah Rake can be funny
Krupe is my favourite character, I don't understand how anyone can dislike him
What a great video. At 15:23 it made me lift my head from my jigsaw, and exclaim out loud "WHUT?"
With no context but having listened to you and the booktube professors about the series - I'm invested!
Let's gooooo!!!
Just finished the book and wow what a ride! I’m taking a break from Malazan because these 3 books practically took up my whole summer. I looked at the Dramatis Personae of House of Chains and I’m a bit intimidated to dive back in. I don’t think I’m mentally ready to reset with a whole new cast of characters. I’m now full steam ahead with Grace of Kings 👍🏽
You got some good reading ahead of you!
A simple big thank you, for your videos. :)
Loving it!
@@ToothlessWizard thanks for watching!
I'm rarely reading outside of SciFi genre, so I appreciate these videos a lot. I feel like I'm at least a little in the know with whats going on in fantasy. Great episode.
Thank you!
For your thoughts on Crone, I also think she's a pretty good character. And it *was* shown to us that she's powerful. It was in Gardens of the Moon, when she very casually removed Baruk's wards. And we know Baruk is not weak, so for her to do it so casually was a taste of her power. I think this was the only thing, though.
AND YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT, KRUPPE IS AWESOME. I like him very much
You keep hitting the nail on the head. I may have to re read to keep up with all the new readers. It's been 4 years since I read Malazan for a 3rd time and I'm a little fuzzy on some of the details. I'll stay tuned.
Appreciate it 😁
I loved this review so much, just had a smile on my face the whole time. All the awesome, weird, nutty, crazy that is Malazan you have pointed out and are loving and that just makes me happy because of how much I love it all
Yeah you're enjoyment and excitement when talking about Malazan has been very contagious to be honest. I'm so happy to be a part of the fandom 👍
@@thefantasynuttwork Yes!!!
@@thefantasynuttwork I totally agree with you about how much you are rewarded. I've never been more rewarded by a book than by a Malazan book and then it happens 10 times in a row. Team Kruppe all the way!
@@ShelfCentered Kruppe would agree with us, clearly
**Spoilers**
The scene in Coral when some of the Bridgeburners ran into Tool and he was going to save his "brother"; Toc. Brought a tear to my eye,
I was like "Go get him, Tool".
If not my favourite duo in the series, so far, definitely Top 3.
Also loved Bauchelain & Korbal Broach and really looking forward to reading their spin-off novellas.
Not a fan of Gruntle.
I like Kruppe, but, more of a Iskaral Pust fan myself.
I adore Quick Ben, very strong contender for my favourite wizard in Fantasy.
Yeah man, Lady Envy is one of my favourite characters in the series.
Looks like we align!
@@thefantasynuttwork great minds think alike.
“Aral Fayle. Toc the Younger. Who had called him friend. It was time for the First Sword of the T’Lan Imass to announce himself.”
GET FUCKING HYPE
@@ReallyGoodandKind let's goooooooooo
MoI is where you realize Malazan is just something different.
Trying to avoid spoilers in comments but some random thoughts
Envy is just over the top.
Itkovian does have some of the best quotes.
I and Dr. Chase got something in our eye while rereading the call back in the epilogue.
Mike had a similar reaction about Gruntle of a complete reversal in a few pages.
Curious if you have to completely reshuffle your ranking order as you go along and more gets revealed.
Looking forward to your continued reviews and Knives.
Thanks Eric! The reveal and explanation of the prologue was so so good
Yeah I agree. The siege of Capustan was just amazing. One of the best I’ve ever read. I genuinely believe that Erickson writes the best epic battle scenes. Joe Abercrombie for me is the best for writing close combat scenes, but Erickson is the king of epic battle scenes for me.
He goes BIG
Worth the wait for this review, I had a feeling you'd love it! Enjoy the rest
Thank you, this was my largest effort yet on a review haha
Excellent review, Jimmy! I scanned to see if Allen has commented yet because he and I were also very caught off guard by Toc bolting the way he did. Spindle's shirt is very weird, indeed, and I love that we have such strange touches like that throughout the series. Did you expect the characters to be as fantastic as they are in this series? I've lost count of how many I love. I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts!
The biggest misconception I had going into Malazan was that I'd not have any characters I'd enjoy..I've become very fond of Erikson's cast and enjoy his characterization.
Malazan is just so different, and for me a breathe of fresh air.
@@thefantasynuttwork Malazan is commonly described as not character-driven, and while it has a different approach in some respects, the characters are at the heart of the series. It's just not one character or one group. It's brilliant the way Erikson is able to do that, and in a different way than Martin who also has a gift for engaging readers with a massive cast!
@@Johanna_reads yeah and I think this approach results in less "dead" storylines for the books. Meaning when you delve so deep into characters each time it can be a huge miss if a reader doesn't care for the character. For instance, and I do not feel this way, a lot of people dislike Dany chapters in ADWD so it brings their overall enjoyment down. I feel like the approach Erikson takes is easier to get around that type of issue. I'm sure there's a better way to decipher the two but I'm not knowledgeable enough to do that, need Philip or AP on the case lol
@@thefantasynuttwork Oh wow! I loved Dany's chapters in ADWD! 😅 As to your point though, there are so many storylines in Malazan that all interconnect through theme if not plot. I have had the experience of not connecting to some storylines as much as others (like in Reaper's Gale), but usually I find there is always so much there to reflect on, even if I didn't get a strong emotional response while reading it. It's interesting to compare those two series though!
Great review man! Keep up the good work!
Thank you, doing my best!
@@thefantasynuttwork Oh, I just remembered lol I never told you but I did ask Brian Lee Durfee to come onto Chatting with Nutts like I promised lol But I will admit that I did it rather indirectly, it was a sort of meta-textual joke XD He did not acknowledge joke but he's a smart guy so I'm sure he got it (I didn't expect him to acknowledge it because that would have both ruined the joke and there it would be silly for him to make big time commitments like that in a random YT comment lol) If you are curious just go to the video on his channel of his review of "From a Buick 8" by Stephen King and read the comment I left him lol
@@v3rmilli0nair3 my dude! Hahaha I'll check it out 😂
Actually I believe Whiskeyjack not getting his leg fully repaired was because Hood and a grudge against him because Whiskeyjack refused to let his younger sister remain in Hood's priesthood. Hood subtly manipulated Jack's emotions to have it put off, which wouldn't be hard as Whiskeyjack naturally thought of others first. It's a quit reveal in easily missed.
Look at the old setup! What a Chad. Great review by the way
Thanks bro! I miss this setup lol
We need a Series about malazan it'd be so much better than got
man, you're kinda becoming my headcanon for ganoes, funny how that happens :/ anyway, nice vid, glad you're enjoying the series
Thank you so much 😁
late to this video but just read this part. When Kilava came to talk to Tool and met with Toc, K'rul spoke to Tok and told him that he had to go into the embrace of the Pannion in order to release their followers. K'rul also spoke to Lady Envy and discussed how their whole party were tools of his
I love how you pick out all these things that I forget I loved and lift them out so I can enjoy what I enjoyed while reading, all over again. If that makes sense :D
I’m so glad you enjoy it!
For my money you do the best Malazan reviews on TH-cam! You asked us to explain Toc’s bad decision, and unfortunately I think this is a case of an author pulling strings that don’t make sense, and Erikson really should have made that decision make more sense. I loved seeing all your reactions!!
Oh man that's really kind of you and I appreciate it so much. This one took a lot of time but I had so much fun doing it
@@thefantasynuttwork Toc was pushed into it by K'rul, who compelled him to go to the heart of the Pannion and eventually release the Ay spirit.
"She seeks … redress. The realization flooded Toc’s mind, and he knew that the knowledge was not his, but an Elder God’s. Who now spoke directly, in a voice that trickled like sand into the Malazan’s thoughts. [...] It is difficult - a risk beyond imagining - but I must send you into the Seer’s embrace. I do not think you will forgive me."
edit: nevermind, just saw a comment saying the same 😂
@@pranavprabhu8609 I'm learning a lot today lol
Man, Jimmy, I just knew youd vibe with the series. It seemed like so much your jam.
It's a hit so far!
Pretty sure caladan brood and kallor were in gardens of the moon in 1 scene when crone visits them. But you're right this is when you really meet them
I may have forgotten that!
Yea there is a very brief scene in GotM w Brood and Kallor.
I know this is a year old, but I just started my Memories of Ice re-read today, and your overflowing enthusiasm has made me eager and excited to get into it! Thanks Jimmy! 😀👌🏻 And yes, go Team Kruppe!
Kruppe approves this comment
Hi I have read garden of the moon 🌓 book by Steven Erickson.. it was good confusing 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️ still kept reading.. look forward reading the rest of the series!!! Happy reading to you!! 📖🍁🍂
Thank you! It gets less confusing after time 😀
Very perceptive review! You really 'get' Malazan. Keep 'em coming!
I appreciate it!
I loved the Siege of Capustan but damn the aftermath of the Battle at Coral: the Bridgeburners, Whiskeyjack, Itkovian. And then at the end Toc being reborn as Mortal Sword of Togg in Anaster's body and Duiker and him telling the remaining Bridgeburners of the Chain of Dogs. I gotta say I think I have no heart cuz I didn't cry at the end but I should have
This one is a real wild ride for sure
Ups and downs everywhere!
Just finished my third read of this book yesterday. By now I think I have the pronunciations down. I believe it is pronounced K’Chain Shae Mail. (Upon multiple reads I could finally slow down and really absorb the details). Will begin my 2nd read of book 4 shortly. BTW the Karkanss Trilogy is amazing! I believe book 1 is SE’s best work fyi. Cheers
Great review 👍
Thank you 😊
8:11, I like to think of the Malazan Characters in the contex of the 'Fate, Stay, Night' anime series and cast them in the categories of the 7 legendary heroes. Anomander, Dassem and Tool as sabers, Trull as lancer, Cotillion, Absalar, Kallam as assassin, Icarium, Caladan as beserker, etm
Oooh this is like your best review👌Wait till you finish the series 😁👍
Thank you so much for that, I was nervous it was way too long hahH
I'm currently reading book 8 and Memories of Ice is still my favorite of the series. Itkovian may be my favorite character.
He's like the most epic of epic
No wait... Karsa then Itkovian.
@@shawnturpin197 Karsa is a badass!
I'm on part 3 of midnight tides and it's shaping up to my favourite so far
It's terrific
Hi Jimmy, great review. One note with HUUUUGE SPOILER MARK concerning the why of Toc's choices.
I'm not exactly sure when it's disscussed but I think Kruppe(?) and K'rull have a conversation where it's revealed that K'rull basically forced Toc to make that choice in order to distract the Pannion seer from fully concentrating on the relevant battles or something and then granting him Anasters body was to be a reward.
Oh damn!!!!!
I remember that I caught this conversation upon like third re-read considering how packed with these "little" references MBotF is :D
@@MrZidaczech that's mind blowing
@@thefantasynuttwork You also may want to consider the following calculation that Toc may have run in his head:
1. I am a trained scout and spy and have been trained in infiltration by the sneakiest spies in the world.
2. If I stay with these overpowered fools I WILL end up dead as they cannot possibly protect me against what they are wading into.
3. I have survived on my own in worse situations than this... I survived being thrown into chaos after all.
4. What is that buzzing in my head? I feel myself being swayed by a mysterious force that is making this calculation seem a lot more one sided than it should be.
5. Sure, they say that they are cannibals that have no food, but really, there must be some food somewhere, no one would ever run an army like this. There must be some mistake or exaggeration.
6. It may be that I have an overly inflated sense of how well this is going to turn out, but a choice between what I see as certain death with weird dreams and psychotic killers, or a choice between maybe surviving undetected in a mass of mad humans who won't pay any attention to anyone else and who are heading toward my friends and fellow soldiers...
Lastly, Toc is also only human and can make mistakes like anyone else. He doesn't have all the information we have, and choosing between two bad choices will always result in you making a bad choice. We just know that from his perspective Envy was predatory, scary, and prone to fits of pique and whimsical decision making, Tool couldn't guarantee his safety in battle nor protect him against Envy if she decided she was mad at him, and the Seguleh didn't care about him at all. Plus, Gods directly messing with mortals for their own plans and nefarious ends, that is becoming commonplace by now.
maybe he just needs some hugs... like lots of hugs... 🙄🙄
@@ACriticalDragon fabulous response. I definitely was willing to be ignorant and or wrong about the said decision, which is why I asked for comments like this haha. I'm thankful for it!
Hugs 😭
Spoiler
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There is a reason for Whiskeyjack not having his leg fully healed. It is given in a later book (The Bonehunters, if I remember correctly). His fate was not pre-ordained and free will does indeed exist in the Malazan world.
okay cool! thanks! It's fun to theorize as I go haha
Great review Jimmy. All the love for Bruckalian and Whiskeyjack. I´m about to start Midnight Tides soon. Can´t wait.
It's soooo good, and thank you!
I’m also starting Midnight Tides. I have to say though despite what I’ve heard others say I really enjoyed HoC’s very much!! Great review Jimmy, I always look forward to what you have to say!!
@@mich7008 thanks! I also really enjoyed HoC
@@mich7008 Yeah, I agree, HOC was really good, cant wait to see Tavore, the army and Karsa again.
Currently in the first part of Reapers Gale, enjoying the first time reader thoughts.
Glad to give them 😁
@@thefantasynuttwork I am also reading the Esselmont books where they fit, 3rd full world reread to end with a first read of The God is Not Willing.
@@jdracing551 that's so hype!!!
Fantastic thoughts! I really enjoyed this, rhe solidarity of Toc's bizarre decision-making skills, and the Tool love, but we part ways on Kruppe and Silvefox lol.
Also, Kallor is awful. 😛
Kallor is a bad bad man
Thanks for watching my friend
I just finished Memories of Ice and I've been loving Malazan so far. However I don't read that much, like an hour a day and feel like if I try to get through all 10 books it would feel like a slog and I think I need a break from the series. Would you recommend a break after Memories of Ice or at what point, if at any point at all? I'm hesitant to Google to avoid spoilers.
After MOI is a good break spot
It was great to be back in Genabackis though I personally prefer Seven Cities and Lether more.
Seven cities are/is growing on me
Shield anvil was by far my favorite in this book
Epic
@thefantasynuttwork for real!!
The climax with Rake and Moon spawn just didn’t seem to fit with his character. Also the Imas part at the end I thought was stupid. I’ve loved the series so far, but MOI just wasn’t what I expected. Almost done with The bone hunters and this is my favorite book so far in the series.
Interesting! I felt the Moon Spawn ending was a result of Rake evolving and changing due to his experiences with WJ
you'll appreciate that scene with Rake a lot more after you read book 8 : - )
Really enjoyed the format of this review. The way you broke the book down and followed your reading notes kept the review flowing and allowed you to cover a lot of major points and smaller events that I've seen other reveiwers gloss over. Of course this is a huge and dense novel so I understand not everything can be discussed but overall this was an excellent review and I appreciated your thoughts. Will definitely be back for the next Malazan video when I'm done with House of Chains
Hey thank you so much! This video in particular was very challenging to make coherent but it was fun to do
You forgot mentioning that K'rul body is the Place where the warrens are ig
Yeah I missed some stuff no doubt
Krupe is my favorite character:)
Great pick!
26:40 excuse me what? Baudin how? Where do you get that? What?
Going to start reading the bonehunters this week
I did like memories of ice but it's not my favorite in the series so far
Which is your favorite so far? I think out of the first 5 it's gotta be MOI or MT for me
@@thefantasynuttwork it's still deadhouse gates for some reason It's my favorite 💯❤❤
15:17 did not said literaly in the book that toc never ate human meat?
Itkovians Story makes me so sad! I am not yet done!
So amazing
True
Team Kruppe🙃
Yeeeeeah!
Team Kruppe!
Forever!
:D