I remember putting spinning hard drives in raid 0 to get a little speed bump- the speeds now are like “space age” futuristic in comparison! Awesome video
I still have a raid 0 with two 1TB mx500s. Its a great value as the drives were only $50 each. Its pretty damn fast for file transfers. Its basically a 2TB downloads folder.
We are barely starting to take advantage of Gen 4 SSDs with DirectStorage, which is a niche feature. It'll be a while before Gen 5 SSDs can make sense even to the most hardcore PC users. At this point we need to rebuild how the OS utilises drives from the ground up to fully take advantage of these fast PCIe SSDs.
DirectStorage is exactly the thing that will make it happen at least for gaming,there is no reason for it to take advantage of gen4 and not beyond in its next few implementations.
@@yol_n If you want to test the experience of your pc players who own pcie 5 ssds, sure. UE doesn't support direct storage yet, and if you're doing ps5 dev you'll have a devkit to test it on. If you need it, you'll likely know about it 👍
Just dropping in to say I appreciate this video so much. This is the exact information I needed for consideration in my first new build in about ten years. You guys are awesome for doing this, keep up the great work! Cheers!
Been following Gordon since the MaximumPC days. I totally enjoyed reading his articles in the mag - not sure if it's still in publication? Gordon is who I learned pc building from back in 1995.
I have come to the conclusion that the Gigabyte Aurous Gen5 10000 is actually a PCIe 4 SSD with a PCIe5 interface. I guess it needs some major revamp in the controller and NAND flash. I think future drives will be faster but heat dissipation will be crucial to achieving higher performance.
@@profosist The problem with NAND is that it is slow and it needs more channels. An 8 channel SSD would cost more than a 4 channel one and 4 channel SSDs will be slower.
I find it crazy that SSDs are the speed of DDR3 RAM (at least sequentially), and faster than the whole capacity of most hard drives at the start of the century.
@DM-ei6oo I meant it as crazy good, cause system ram is one of the fastest components in a computer, and now we have ssds that are as fast sequentially as ram from less than a decade ago, and you can get terabytes of it (even at gen 5 prices), for a lot cheaper.
People were buying the Inland Gen5 drive at Microcenter well before that Aorus was available at retail. Certainly not the first available commercial drive.
I was recently surprised how fast a 16TB drive is, in sequential writes it was just as fast as my first pair of high performance SSDs back in.... 2011? around 300MB/s from an HDD is crazy consindering the last time i remember testing one it was around 90MB/s Whats even crazier is that backing up photos from my camera is faster when going to HDD, than to my 2TB gen4 NVMe, because that speed eventually hits the end of the SLC cache, and then slows to ~40MB/s, HDD stays 250MB/s+ the whole time
@@hammerheadcorvette4 My 16TB HDD ends up being faster than my 2TB gen4 NVMe in sequential writes, sure the NVMe will copy at 5000+MB/s, but only for a limited time, the HDD is 300MB/s the whole way though The problem i found recently when backing up my camera from a wedding shoot, the SD card is limited to 300MB/s (290 something but effectively 300) so copying is just as fast both to NVMe and HDD But after i copied around 8 out of 50GB the NMMe slowed to 40MB/s, so i switched over to backing up to the HDD, which ran at between 250 and 300MB/s the whole time, mostly only slowing down when it was grabbing metadata like the .moff and .modd files for the photos
I still use spinning drives. The storage per dollar is still superior to flash storage. 16 TB for 250 bucks yet an 8 TB NVMe Gen 4 costs four grand....
Most board owners are on lucky since their first or fastest M2 slot is usually directly underneath the first PCI x16 slot... So you're going to be always constrained on thermals and installation room
I think it's laughable how people gravitate on sequential read/writes which is only good for M.2 to M.2 that are at least the same exact or faster speeds. The real world is random 4K que depth 1.
Thanks for making these videos. They have helped me alot with building my new computer. Especially with the 13900k. However Im still on the fence with PCIe Gen5. Will Gen5 benefit me at all before building a new PC in 4 or 5 years, or just stick with a PCIe Gen4 mobo and do it on the next PC replacement cycle lol. I use my PC mostly for gaming, rarely streaming, and occasionally some recording, so maybe PCIe Gen4 is better for me right now. This would definitely open up my mid/high-end motherboard options.
@@pcworld Yea that the thing. I dont really need it. I do nothing that requires a need for it. I dont even think its worth future proofing for it. Thanks again for the info on all the new goodies.
Great comparison lineup, but i miss the more spreaded type like samsung 990 Pro (not assumming that the results would significantly vary, but its known as the fasstest NVME Gen4). But i would highlight the inclusion of optane.
Why? The two gen 5 drives I've seen come with their own heat spreader. I have the Inland version of the Aurous drive and it comes with its own fan too.
@@TurboXray It's because motherboards come with their own heatsink and it would be good to see how much that affects (or doesn't) the drives performance. Also, a lot of motherboards won't have space for the bigger heatsink due to being in the way of the GPU.
About the video editing performance. It takes very little data to stream 4k locally. I'm sure the number is the same because that's all that's required to play it back. Perhaps you need 12k or higher. I have a SATA SSD that I edit from and the performance is fine. 4k is simply not demanding enough.
Given how most gen5 SSDs are having heat issues and requiring either active cooling or massive heat sinks I would rather we started cutting down on the lanes for drive and keeping the top end speed the same. For instance we could have a 2 lane gen 5 drive get 7500MBps and now have twice as many lanes available. This will be even more important when pcie 6.0 starts appearing on hardware. Give me a single pcie lane at that 7500MBps. The can keep improving the randoms in the controller but I really don't need to add cost and bulk to everything when I am rarely going to benefit from it.
There is no way that heatsink would fit on my board with how the GPU/CPU heat sinks are located. Would be curious if all the PCIe 5 drives will be so hot. When there are a few more on the market I would like to see how the compete when using just the motherboard's "flat" heatsinks
gordon, what the heck is even that? 01:42 i wanna reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee when i seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee on what you're testing... how can this beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee oh, and yeah, i want to see it with the strix 670e-f heatsink with a card on top of it. it's not that bulky, and i'm pondering to add gen 5 with my next CPU upgrade, but would be nice to see if there is a risk, would also be a good example as it's not this sophisticated.
Man, that Intel Optane looks so promising. If Intel (or someone) else would develop it further to also get higher speeds for large files and produce them in large quantities to lower the price, they might kill some smaller SSD makers. Btw, I wonder how good these Gen5 SSD will do on laptops, as we need serious cooling also for storage.
I've been saying this for a while but laptops annoy the hell out of me. They keep trying to reduce the size to the smallest thing but I would be fine with something from around 2010-2015 in size. If they would stop being cheap and increase the heatsink in them and possibly increase to an 80 or 90mm fan. I would pay an extra 50 easily for being cooler and quieter
Micro Center was the first to have a Gen5 drive available retail through its house brand "Inland" (TD510 2TB). It's the same innards as this drive though, Phison E26 controller but comes with a heatsink that has an annoyingly loud active fan.
I think for direct storage pcie 3.0 will be more than fine in the future. It's only 1 sec or so behind which is nothing for loading, maybe in a year or 2 it will matter with pci 5.0 and 4.0. But we have only one game and it looks like the tech. is not being used in future games at all.
Would performance vary motherboard to motherboard? AMD to Intel? Soup to sandwich? Ram to ram? Did the x3d hold anything back? Would my Asus board have done better? Am I in a simulation?
After seeing this video I decided to test my new Corsair MP700 Gen 5 M.2. The results are fairly equal to what the video shows for the Aurous Gen 5 except my Q32T1 results for write shows 563,16 and my write Q1T1 shows 327.48.
Would love to see temp tests on a reasonable selection of latest Gen5 compatible MBs, since some include substantial cooling sinks, others more generic "single plate" cooling for 2 (or even 3) NVME drives. Thanks guys for all your hard work and contributions to the "Community of Nerds" (like me ...😂😂).
The charts showed a negligible difference from a 7000MB/s Gen4 drive. 1 second load time vs 1.1 second load time, isn't worth double the price. I can't imagine future titles will be able to take advantage of the speeds to reduce times any further than that, regardless of drive speed.
When the difference between 2 gen 4 drives are that big. How can you ask if gen 5 is worth it when there's only one so far? It seems to me like it's going to be another good 6 months before this question should be asked.
I would rather we took the PCIe 5.0 x4 M.2 slot and turned it into two x2 slots at this point. The thermal output of these drives is outpacing controller die shrinks and architectural improvements so much that they need active cooling to stay reasonably cool. Half the lanes and double the ports, that way we can allow fabrication process and controller efficiency a PCIe generation to catch up and give ourselves a bit more connectivity.
@@bakedbeings Extra cost, more noise, some M.2 slots are awkwardly positioned (under GPUs, the back side of motherboards) and can't accept active cooling.
Just like the XPG, Samsung had a utility for their SATA SSD's to use your system RAM for Cache. 12 years ago when a friend was boasting the speed of his RAID of two Samsung SATA SSD's he was getting about 600MB/s then I showed him a benchmark that I did on my system which showed over 3GB's and told him to do better. Think I was running a Corsair F60 SATA SSD at the time
Yeah.. ram cache.. which will make your benchmark in crystal disk give crazy results but wont perform anything better in most real situations... Those speeds are so fast because the file used in the benchmark is already loaded in ram...Only speeds up things if the file was already used before in that same session and didnt get overwritten by anything else that got cached...
This was on sale in China for about a month (along with one from Corsair and one from Galax), then all three were pulled from the market before I could nab one.
watching 905p clean house everywhere it matters is kinda bizarre, since it was sort of broken, low-performance optane compared to the P5800X make sure you read the controller temps, not the nand temps. nand likes to be warm, but the controllers often like to kick out a lot of heat, and can be a problem.
Yeah, I thought about jamming in a couple of thermocouples in there, but kinda wondered about the cooling impact from having the relatively thick K probes I have. I should source a few thinner probes and monitor the back side nand, front side nand and controller at once.
Look at those random numbers. Getting beat by SK Hynix Gen 3. Unless you are moving a ton of data all the time, there is no reason to pay more for Gen 5.0 at this point.
People should care more about 4K Random speeds, that's what matters most, and NAND Flash is still the limiting factor in that regard not, the transfer medium itself.
Gordon, on the Crosshair Hero X670E you can't use drives with double sided heatsinks, the q latch is not tall enough to latch onto the pcb. I contacted Asus abput the prospect of getting replacement q latches that work on heatsinks (it's only a few dollars of plastic) and the CR actually blamed me for installing the motherboard heatsink ontop of m.2 heatsinks. When I pointed out that was not remotely possible, the same CR came back to me and said the board wasn't designed for m.2s with heatsinks and my only recourse was a refund. When I asked, -where- were they categorically telling me that Asus is actually limiting options on a £700 motherboard - not a single response and that was about 10 days ago. I've waited long enough for Asus to respond. It's time to make this public.
Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of boards that want you to rely on their thermal solutions rather than accounting for heatsinks provided by manufacturers. I'm sure the efficiency is fine, but not everyone buys bare drives or prefers their own heatsink. -Adam
@@pcworld Hi Adam, thanks for responding. True and it's worse for this particular board as the M2_2 socket is Gen5 whereas the M2_3 and M2_4 are Gen4. As all three are sharing the same motherboard heatsink - using a Gen5 drive will rapidly increase the temps on other two drives even if they are idle. Also the M2_4 socket has no motherboard backplate. If the slim motherboard heatsink was fine than OEMs wouldn't be including massive heatsinks on the gen5 m.2 socket closest to the CPU. Anyway, is it even remotely possible to remove q-latch 'screws' and replace them with standard m.2 stand-offs? I ask as I have since replaced the motherboard heatsinks with m.2 heatsinks and no crashes when gaming. The m.2s are currently held by frigging ducktape lol... - attached to the top of the heatsink and spread across to the case (no tape on the pcb - m.2 heatsink is 9.2 in thickness). The primary reason to replace them was because the 970 Evo Gen3 drive I had in M2_4 socket was causing the other two drives to heat up. Playing games off the M2_3 drive also causes the M2_4 drive to warm up due to proximity. So, in effect you have a mini heatloop which also causes the M2_2 to heat up. In a poor airflow case the temps will be pretty high. In the scenario I described using a H500M I get CTDs (crash to desktop) when gaming. I have since replaced the 970 Evo with a 4TB SN850X and since that's double sided, using the motherboard heatsink was no longer viable.
@@FakeGordonMahUng Hi Gordon, not sure what happened to my reply 2 weeks ago, I guess some random numpty troll reported my comment as spam when called out on their fud as many of my comments around that time disappeared as well lol... Anyway, thanks for the reply. a few days ago I bought an additional desk primarily because my workspace is pretty small and I couldn't work on the PC without lugging it all the way to the kitchen down flights of stairs. The H500m and motherboard is damn heavy. In short, There is noway to remove the backplates that are pre-installed. Regardless the M.2 drives do seat properly. Additionally, I took out the motherboard yesterday (as I wanted to take the time out re-manage the cables to enable better airflow to the m.2s) and unfortunately the q-latch stand-offs is not easily removable. Even after taking removing the screw from the bottom of the motherboard. I tried to use substantial force using a spanner hex bit on magnetic screwdrive - no dice, all I got for the trouble was a flexing board. So, now I'm left with trying to some find compressable plastic into the Q-latch stand-off as I tried to add different diameters of screws (not self tapping) range from 1.7mm to 2.1 mm to no avail. I don't have the tools to create a plastic spring and twist that into place - I could use a metal spring but that will create a short. Nor do I have a 3d printer to make simple plastic tac that's the right dimensions.
@@FakeGordonMahUng Hi Gordon, a quick update I managed to find the screw size that will actually screw into the m.2 q latch standoff it's a diameter m2 x 8mm length and a m2 washer but... me being the idiot I am I slightly overtightened as there was some wiggle to the m.2 drives and the screw broke off in the stand off. So, once again I pulled the motherboard out and tried to mallet out the broken screw using a metal pin for measurement marking and later a small screw bit as the aforementioned tool but it got stuck. Sooo i unscrewed the q-latch stand-offs and using a spanner bit I was actually able to wiggle off the q-latch stand-offs with some force as they are also glued to the board and replace them with nylon stand-offs and tightened them down with a nylon nut. The m.2s have been reinstalled and no tape! yay. When I pulled everything out 3 days ago I cable managed everything and moved the GPU 8 pin x2 power cables so that they no longer over hang the gpu from the bottom. The m.2 drives have clear a path way of cool air. Anyway, it is possible to use the q-latch standoffs with stand-alone m.2s - need to use m2 screws with m2 washers, given the small amount of wiggle I'd say around 2mm diameter x 9 mm length + 2x m2 washers. i used one because as I said like the idiot I am I decided to work on the pc at 2 am in the morning as it was bugging me to no end - the tape kept coming off the drives.
Nvme drives were such a mistake, they take up way too much space on the motherboard. If they stood vertically out like PCIe cards, okay, but they don't. For some reason they are all mounted flat on the motherboard and boy is it a huge hit in motherboard real estate.
does the graphics cards rendering matter much in for these benchmarks? say a Nvidia 5000 series would obviously give better results compared to the same PCIes used than say 4000 series or 4000 series?
I'm still running SATA 2. Thinking of upgrading and using a 990 PRO. Anything will be faster than what I have, but will not really utilise anything other than more memory as I only have 6gb of DDR2
Imo gen5 is a waste, to sustain 10k this little drives are going to go ballistic on temperature on sustain loads, u.2/u.3 drives have much better cooling and will sustain speeds much higher than most m.2 drives, and should be the pic of people using them editing.
6:15 I recently tried backing up my camera from a wedding (A7 IV) to a 2TB gen 4 NVMe. It started out great, went the full 300MB/s that my SD card is rated for. Then about 8GB into the 50GB of photo and video, it slowed down to 40MB/s, so i checked task manager, my SSD had overrun its SLC cache and i guess the SLC cache gets slower as the drive fills, because i dont remember it getting this slow when it only had 100GB on it.
you might have a cheap nvme then. i think the samsung series nvme's as well as sk hynix have a better cache. i never wanna use anything from wd or sandisk after my last experience.
@@LZeugirdor some Samsung do. The most consistent writer is the Samsung 970 Pro. It will keep write speeds consistent even after 800 gigs of writing while other drives like the Samsung 980 pro will fill its cache and then slow down. There’s a good bit of information on quora that I tried to link but it deleted my comment.
The price of these drives seems reasonable at a little over $200 for 1 TB, but will I have to pay a small fortune for a motherboard that recognizes it?
Honestly for practical use, an optane drive will be much faster perceptually for most tasks than any of these disks. Plus with an optane drive your data is actually saved permanently instantly, no caching or risk with power loss.
The insane write speeds give what benefit? What can feed data to the CPU that fast to where it can output to the NVMe at such a high rate? I understand that for reading, a CPU can call data fast enough such as game loads when you have better, higher core count CPUs (game load does many things not just reading data off a drive, and queue depth is CERTAINLY >1 during game loads. There's a lot of decompression for instance, creating instances of objects, etc....). So, I see benefit for gaming with these higher speed NVMe drives but other than that I think you need to be in the world of WS or server for the speed boost to matter.
I have no idea if we are going to need the m.2 in PCI-e 5.0 configuration because if we use it with slower drives, the speed will be limited. (except that your m/b got more than 1 pci-e 5.0 slot)
I just dont see the value at this point atleast for average PC user or gamers for anything besides maybe gen 4. I have all gen 3 m.2's and am more than happy with them they are nice an snappy, even loading times in the forspoken demo are decent. The only utility I see at this point is being about to use the gen 5 interface to lower it to 2 lanes and maybe get more m.2/PCie devices on the same mobo. Maybe in the future as it matures it will find a niche but right now I am not seeing it.
Now that Optane is reasonably priced, people are into more than just the 60, and 118GB Optane drives Those 118GB drives used to be over $200, now they're $70, same story for the 960GB, used to be near or even over $1000, now they're as low as $369
From what we've heard there is still a lot of stock available, and the price of the 905p continues to hold at it's lowest point: www.newegg.com/intel-optane-ssd-905p-series-960gb/p/20-167-463 -Adam
@@RP-ej1fm PCWolrd posted where i got mine *new* below, they've been on sale since like September, no one bought them when they were $1000+ but $359-$400 is reasonable for what you get
Interesting. Great deal but I think this is a little less attractive since you have to plug this in a m.2 slot correct? I have the pcie version and I’ve never seen those go down in price new. On a side note I use my optane as a windows boot drive and it makes everything so incredibly snappy. Due to the SSD price crash I recently purchased 4 - 2 TB WD SN850x drives and put them in raid 0 from the bios. I can pick and choose which drive to use for the best performance.
1:37 Gordon's Testing Rig .. yeah the "Pros" at work here. 🤦 Real World .. absolutely no one would notice any difference between any decent M.2 PCIe 3, 4 or 5!
I wonder how much cooling is an issue with m.2 drives in laptops. My Lenovo came with a PCIe 3.0 x4 drive and I wonder if I would notice a improvement if I went to a WD850x 2TB drive. It has a PCIe 4 slot but would it just get hot and throttle.
Now big question; If AMD made high end 5.0 lanes AM5 APU ( instead of 4.0 ), could that APU benefit from Gen-5 NVME SSD speeds in AAA sandblox op games, and 3D Autocad program ? even if APU is powerful that requires 280mm AIO cooler.
my computer: sata3
Vs me with an SAS 15K and 7.2K drives for storage with a few 10-year old Samsung SSDs and some externals thrown in. 😅
sata 3 11yr old hdd
My PC: 2+1+1 TB used shucked dvr hdds, 2TB 4.0 NVME, 256 Sata SSD (OS)
BAsically Gordon from PCWorld: 7 seconds to load new scene on Sata ssd..... bad... I need 1 second load times
Lol, same
I wish Intel Optane was still around. PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 Optane drives would be mental!
Check out the PCIe 4 Intel Optane SSD P5800X series.
@@gibsonblogger Now if only we had that at consumer pricing. Would be the dream.
@@gibsonblogger +1 this is the only one gen4 they made
@thestocktrader6544 this is incorrect. Intel retained Optane. They only sold the NAND part of the business to SK Hynix/Solidigm.
I remember putting spinning hard drives in raid 0 to get a little speed bump- the speeds now are like “space age” futuristic in comparison!
Awesome video
yea dude i really love the amount of storage we can get on the 3.5 side, but even in games they are slow haha.
Yep, I remember raiding those WD Velociraptor drives
I still have a raid 0 with two 1TB mx500s. Its a great value as the drives were only $50 each. Its pretty damn fast for file transfers. Its basically a 2TB downloads folder.
@@jessefisher1809 A 1TB gen 4 ssd with slc cache is $46
And now laptops are running raid 0 SSD gen 4 😅😅😅
Optane still killing it from beyond the grave. Glad I picked up some big-ish optane drives to use for the rest of time.
We are barely starting to take advantage of Gen 4 SSDs with DirectStorage, which is a niche feature. It'll be a while before Gen 5 SSDs can make sense even to the most hardcore PC users.
At this point we need to rebuild how the OS utilises drives from the ground up to fully take advantage of these fast PCIe SSDs.
DirectStorage is exactly the thing that will make it happen at least for gaming,there is no reason for it to take advantage of gen4 and not beyond in its next few implementations.
Is it worth it for unreal engine 5 game development?
Video editors/compositors can eat up any amount of bandwidth, they'll be using it up already and probably raiding them.
@@yol_n If you want to test the experience of your pc players who own pcie 5 ssds, sure. UE doesn't support direct storage yet, and if you're doing ps5 dev you'll have a devkit to test it on. If you need it, you'll likely know about it 👍
@@bakedbeings I don't mean direct storage I mean if making games on a gen5 pcie actually improves on UE5
Just dropping in to say I appreciate this video so much. This is the exact information I needed for consideration in my first new build in about ten years. You guys are awesome for doing this, keep up the great work! Cheers!
Been following Gordon since the MaximumPC days. I totally enjoyed reading his articles in the mag - not sure if it's still in publication? Gordon is who I learned pc building from back in 1995.
Unfortunately, the last print edition was late last year. I went out and grabbed a couple!
I have come to the conclusion that the Gigabyte Aurous Gen5 10000 is actually a PCIe 4 SSD with a PCIe5 interface. I guess it needs some major revamp in the controller and NAND flash. I think future drives will be faster but heat dissipation will be crucial to achieving higher performance.
dual 80mm fans, if not a liquid water block!
correct NAND for Gen 5 has not yet been developed. Most of this NAND has been OC'd to even reach whats its at here.
@@profosist The problem with NAND is that it is slow and it needs more channels. An 8 channel SSD would cost more than a 4 channel one and 4 channel SSDs will be slower.
@@fleemwings207 NVMe are also limited by size it's not like the old SATA SSD days where you can keep chucking in more NAND packages.
@@profosist I was thinking Chiplet design like AMD is doing, that could solve the problem size problem.
I find it crazy that SSDs are the speed of DDR3 RAM (at least sequentially), and faster than the whole capacity of most hard drives at the start of the century.
@DM-ei6oo I meant it as crazy good, cause system ram is one of the fastest components in a computer, and now we have ssds that are as fast sequentially as ram from less than a decade ago, and you can get terabytes of it (even at gen 5 prices), for a lot cheaper.
Me reading this on my i7 4790 with ddr3 ram ...
Love the 90s vibe of that testing rig case!
Someone who gets it! It's retro man...
People were buying the Inland Gen5 drive at Microcenter well before that Aorus was available at retail. Certainly not the first available commercial drive.
It's INSANE how we went from a spinning drive, then to a fast m.2 drive.
I mean, even from the old tape drive to the spinning drive was a big performance jump and capacity density leap
I was recently surprised how fast a 16TB drive is, in sequential writes it was just as fast as my first pair of high performance SSDs back in.... 2011? around 300MB/s from an HDD is crazy consindering the last time i remember testing one it was around 90MB/s
Whats even crazier is that backing up photos from my camera is faster when going to HDD, than to my 2TB gen4 NVMe, because that speed eventually hits the end of the SLC cache, and then slows to ~40MB/s, HDD stays 250MB/s+ the whole time
@@denvera1g1 I think it's mostly cache. I'm surprised SSHDD's didn't take off.
@@hammerheadcorvette4 My 16TB HDD ends up being faster than my 2TB gen4 NVMe in sequential writes, sure the NVMe will copy at 5000+MB/s, but only for a limited time, the HDD is 300MB/s the whole way though
The problem i found recently when backing up my camera from a wedding shoot, the SD card is limited to 300MB/s (290 something but effectively 300) so copying is just as fast both to NVMe and HDD
But after i copied around 8 out of 50GB the NMMe slowed to 40MB/s, so i switched over to backing up to the HDD, which ran at between 250 and 300MB/s the whole time, mostly only slowing down when it was grabbing metadata like the .moff and .modd files for the photos
I still use spinning drives. The storage per dollar is still superior to flash storage. 16 TB for 250 bucks yet an 8 TB NVMe Gen 4 costs four grand....
Most board owners are on lucky since their first or fastest M2 slot is usually directly underneath the first PCI x16 slot... So you're going to be always constrained on thermals and installation room
I think it's laughable how people gravitate on sequential read/writes which is only good for M.2 to M.2 that are at least the same exact or faster speeds. The real world is random 4K que depth 1.
F in the chat for Optane. RIP.
F
F
Thanks for making these videos. They have helped me alot with building my new computer. Especially with the 13900k. However Im still on the fence with PCIe Gen5. Will Gen5 benefit me at all before building a new PC in 4 or 5 years, or just stick with a PCIe Gen4 mobo and do it on the next PC replacement cycle lol. I use my PC mostly for gaming, rarely streaming, and occasionally some recording, so maybe PCIe Gen4 is better for me right now. This would definitely open up my mid/high-end motherboard options.
I think there is very little benefit for Gen 5 right now unless you know you need it.
-Adam
@@pcworld Yea that the thing. I dont really need it. I do nothing that requires a need for it. I dont even think its worth future proofing for it. Thanks again for the info on all the new goodies.
Great comparison lineup, but i miss the more spreaded type like samsung 990 Pro (not assumming that the results would significantly vary, but its known as the fasstest NVME Gen4). But i would highlight the inclusion of optane.
or at least a 980 pro, it would be more relatable for sure
It is rarely worth it when a brand new technology is just released due to growing pains and price. I always wait a year or 2.
Great testing info. Putting third P41 in cart…
Its always worth it when new technology comes in.
Now I can afford high capacity PCIE Gen 3 / 4 SSDs!!
Please test Gen 5 drives using thin heat spreaders, which is the most common type of heat spreader available in mid end motherboards.
Why? The two gen 5 drives I've seen come with their own heat spreader. I have the Inland version of the Aurous drive and it comes with its own fan too.
@@TurboXray It's because motherboards come with their own heatsink and it would be good to see how much that affects (or doesn't) the drives performance. Also, a lot of motherboards won't have space for the bigger heatsink due to being in the way of the GPU.
Hooray for my old optane drive.
Impressed with the gen5 nvme. it achieved same benchmark result type as Ramdisk using ddr4 memory on my AM4 system.
About the video editing performance. It takes very little data to stream 4k locally. I'm sure the number is the same because that's all that's required to play it back. Perhaps you need 12k or higher. I have a SATA SSD that I edit from and the performance is fine. 4k is simply not demanding enough.
amazing, still sticking with my pcie gen 3 and Sata SSD until I actually have a need for these higher speeds
Micro Center has been selling the Inland TD510 PCIe 5.0 drive for a few weeks now (if you are near a Micro Center)
Given how most gen5 SSDs are having heat issues and requiring either active cooling or massive heat sinks I would rather we started cutting down on the lanes for drive and keeping the top end speed the same. For instance we could have a 2 lane gen 5 drive get 7500MBps and now have twice as many lanes available. This will be even more important when pcie 6.0 starts appearing on hardware. Give me a single pcie lane at that 7500MBps. The can keep improving the randoms in the controller but I really don't need to add cost and bulk to everything when I am rarely going to benefit from it.
There is no way that heatsink would fit on my board with how the GPU/CPU heat sinks are located. Would be curious if all the PCIe 5 drives will be so hot. When there are a few more on the market I would like to see how the compete when using just the motherboard's "flat" heatsinks
This video made me want an Optane
I bought 3, thanks to Wendel 😅
I wish you had included the Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB nvme
My X670E-PRO WIFI has a PCIe 5.0 slot so of COURSE I need to buy 1 of these.
Will I ever use it? Absolutely not.
Still need it.
gordon, what the heck is even that? 01:42
i wanna reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
when i seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
on what you're testing...
how can this beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
oh, and yeah, i want to see it with the strix 670e-f heatsink with a card on top of it. it's not that bulky, and i'm pondering to add gen 5 with my next CPU upgrade, but would be nice to see if there is a risk, would also be a good example as it's not this sophisticated.
ROG gonna make a nvme 5.0 drive and brand it "Over 9000"
Man, that Intel Optane looks so promising. If Intel (or someone) else would develop it further to also get higher speeds for large files and produce them in large quantities to lower the price, they might kill some smaller SSD makers. Btw, I wonder how good these Gen5 SSD will do on laptops, as we need serious cooling also for storage.
I've been saying this for a while but laptops annoy the hell out of me. They keep trying to reduce the size to the smallest thing but I would be fine with something from around 2010-2015 in size. If they would stop being cheap and increase the heatsink in them and possibly increase to an 80 or 90mm fan. I would pay an extra 50 easily for being cooler and quieter
@@rudysal1429 My XPS 17, 12th gen thin laptop rarely uses the fans (I don't usually run heavy tasks). But the future I think it is ARM or RISC-5.
Micro Center was the first to have a Gen5 drive available retail through its house brand "Inland" (TD510 2TB). It's the same innards as this drive though, Phison E26 controller but comes with a heatsink that has an annoyingly loud active fan.
I think for direct storage pcie 3.0 will be more than fine in the future. It's only 1 sec or so behind which is nothing for loading, maybe in a year or 2 it will matter with pci 5.0 and 4.0. But we have only one game and it looks like the tech. is not being used in future games at all.
Answer from a Aorus gen5 owner: No. IOPs and random reads are sub par to Gen4 at best. The only up is the faster Read and Write speed
I was smart enough to get my Optane drive at around MSRP. Still rocking it
Nice review ,so gen5 is not just marketing. When I will build my next PC I will do it with gen5 compatible board.
Kinda crazy I was just working in a server last night that was on DDR2. Talk about slllllow....
Would performance vary motherboard to motherboard? AMD to Intel? Soup to sandwich? Ram to ram? Did the x3d hold anything back? Would my Asus board have done better? Am I in a simulation?
After seeing this video I decided to test my new Corsair MP700 Gen 5 M.2. The results are fairly equal to what the video shows for the Aurous Gen 5 except my Q32T1 results for write shows 563,16 and my write Q1T1 shows 327.48.
Would love to see temp tests on a reasonable selection of latest Gen5 compatible MBs, since some include substantial cooling sinks, others more generic "single plate" cooling for 2 (or even 3) NVME drives. Thanks guys for all your hard work and contributions to the "Community of Nerds"
(like me ...😂😂).
Great content!
Nice and hard working, thank you.
Be great for direct storage games in the future
The charts showed a negligible difference from a 7000MB/s Gen4 drive. 1 second load time vs 1.1 second load time, isn't worth double the price. I can't imagine future titles will be able to take advantage of the speeds to reduce times any further than that, regardless of drive speed.
I like how every benchmark disagrees with Gordon, especially his own.
When the difference between 2 gen 4 drives are that big. How can you ask if gen 5 is worth it when there's only one so far? It seems to me like it's going to be another good 6 months before this question should be asked.
Oh don't worry, Gordon will be excited to do more testing in the future!
-Adam
@@pcworld What if Gordon had a parody channel where he benchmarked everyday items like toasters.
I would rather we took the PCIe 5.0 x4 M.2 slot and turned it into two x2 slots at this point.
The thermal output of these drives is outpacing controller die shrinks and architectural improvements so much that they need active cooling to stay reasonably cool.
Half the lanes and double the ports, that way we can allow fabrication process and controller efficiency a PCIe generation to catch up and give ourselves a bit more connectivity.
Active cooling as in a fan? What's the drama with using a fan?
@@bakedbeings Extra cost, more noise, some M.2 slots are awkwardly positioned (under GPUs, the back side of motherboards) and can't accept active cooling.
Just like the XPG, Samsung had a utility for their SATA SSD's to use your system RAM for Cache. 12 years ago when a friend was boasting the speed of his RAID of two Samsung SATA SSD's he was getting about 600MB/s then I showed him a benchmark that I did on my system which showed over 3GB's and told him to do better. Think I was running a Corsair F60 SATA SSD at the time
Yeah.. ram cache.. which will make your benchmark in crystal disk give crazy results but wont perform anything better in most real situations... Those speeds are so fast because the file used in the benchmark is already loaded in ram...Only speeds up things if the file was already used before in that same session and didnt get overwritten by anything else that got cached...
This was on sale in China for about a month (along with one from Corsair and one from Galax), then all three were pulled from the market before I could nab one.
watching 905p clean house everywhere it matters is kinda bizarre, since it was sort of broken, low-performance optane compared to the P5800X
make sure you read the controller temps, not the nand temps. nand likes to be warm, but the controllers often like to kick out a lot of heat, and can be a problem.
Yeah, I thought about jamming in a couple of thermocouples in there, but kinda wondered about the cooling impact from having the relatively thick K probes I have. I should source a few thinner probes and monitor the back side nand, front side nand and controller at once.
Thanks Gordon. Still only 8 channels sadly
Look at those random numbers. Getting beat by SK Hynix Gen 3. Unless you are moving a ton of data all the time, there is no reason to pay more for Gen 5.0 at this point.
People should care more about 4K Random speeds, that's what matters most, and NAND Flash is still the limiting factor in that regard not, the transfer medium itself.
how about gameplay benchmarks comparison?? CSGO? Valorant etc... Competitive gaming?
i now know what they did w/ my grandmas curtains
Gordon, on the Crosshair Hero X670E you can't use drives with double sided heatsinks, the q latch is not tall enough to latch onto the pcb. I contacted Asus abput the prospect of getting replacement q latches that work on heatsinks (it's only a few dollars of plastic) and the CR actually blamed me for installing the motherboard heatsink ontop of m.2 heatsinks. When I pointed out that was not remotely possible, the same CR came back to me and said the board wasn't designed for m.2s with heatsinks and my only recourse was a refund. When I asked, -where- were they categorically telling me that Asus is actually limiting options on a £700 motherboard - not a single response and that was about 10 days ago. I've waited long enough for Asus to respond. It's time to make this public.
Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of boards that want you to rely on their thermal solutions rather than accounting for heatsinks provided by manufacturers. I'm sure the efficiency is fine, but not everyone buys bare drives or prefers their own heatsink.
-Adam
@@pcworld Hi Adam, thanks for responding. True and it's worse for this particular board as the M2_2 socket is Gen5 whereas the M2_3 and M2_4 are Gen4. As all three are sharing the same motherboard heatsink - using a Gen5 drive will rapidly increase the temps on other two drives even if they are idle. Also the M2_4 socket has no motherboard backplate.
If the slim motherboard heatsink was fine than OEMs wouldn't be including massive heatsinks on the gen5 m.2 socket closest to the CPU.
Anyway, is it even remotely possible to remove q-latch 'screws' and replace them with standard m.2 stand-offs?
I ask as I have since replaced the motherboard heatsinks with m.2 heatsinks and no crashes when gaming.
The m.2s are currently held by frigging ducktape lol... - attached to the top of the heatsink and spread across to the case (no tape on the pcb - m.2 heatsink is 9.2 in thickness).
The primary reason to replace them was because the 970 Evo Gen3 drive I had in M2_4 socket was causing the other two drives to heat up. Playing games off the M2_3 drive also causes the M2_4 drive to warm up due to proximity. So, in effect you have a mini heatloop which also causes the M2_2 to heat up. In a poor airflow case the temps will be pretty high. In the scenario I described using a H500M I get CTDs (crash to desktop) when gaming. I have since replaced the 970 Evo with a 4TB SN850X and since that's double sided, using the motherboard heatsink was no longer viable.
Can you remove the backplate it mounts to? That's the way the Gigabyte handles it. You remove the metal mounting plate with the thermal tape on it.
@@FakeGordonMahUng Hi Gordon, not sure what happened to my reply 2 weeks ago, I guess some random numpty troll reported my comment as spam when called out on their fud as many of my comments around that time disappeared as well lol...
Anyway, thanks for the reply. a few days ago I bought an additional desk primarily because my workspace is pretty small and I couldn't work on the PC without lugging it all the way to the kitchen down flights of stairs. The H500m and motherboard is damn heavy.
In short, There is noway to remove the backplates that are pre-installed. Regardless the M.2 drives do seat properly. Additionally, I took out the motherboard yesterday (as I wanted to take the time out re-manage the cables to enable better airflow to the m.2s) and unfortunately the q-latch stand-offs is not easily removable. Even after taking removing the screw from the bottom of the motherboard. I tried to use substantial force using a spanner hex bit on magnetic screwdrive - no dice, all I got for the trouble was a flexing board.
So, now I'm left with trying to some find compressable plastic into the Q-latch stand-off as I tried to add different diameters of screws (not self tapping) range from 1.7mm to 2.1 mm to no avail. I don't have the tools to create a plastic spring and twist that into place - I could use a metal spring but that will create a short. Nor do I have a 3d printer to make simple plastic tac that's the right dimensions.
@@FakeGordonMahUng Hi Gordon, a quick update I managed to find the screw size that will actually screw into the m.2 q latch standoff it's a diameter m2 x 8mm length and a m2 washer but... me being the idiot I am I slightly overtightened as there was some wiggle to the m.2 drives and the screw broke off in the stand off.
So, once again I pulled the motherboard out and tried to mallet out the broken screw using a metal pin for measurement marking and later a small screw bit as the aforementioned tool but it got stuck.
Sooo i unscrewed the q-latch stand-offs and using a spanner bit I was actually able to wiggle off the q-latch stand-offs with some force as they are also glued to the board and replace them with nylon stand-offs and tightened them down with a nylon nut. The m.2s have been reinstalled and no tape! yay.
When I pulled everything out 3 days ago I cable managed everything and moved the GPU 8 pin x2 power cables so that they no longer over hang the gpu from the bottom.
The m.2 drives have clear a path way of cool air.
Anyway, it is possible to use the q-latch standoffs with stand-alone m.2s - need to use m2 screws with m2 washers, given the small amount of wiggle I'd say around 2mm diameter x 9 mm length + 2x m2 washers. i used one because as I said like the idiot I am I decided to work on the pc at 2 am in the morning as it was bugging me to no end - the tape kept coming off the drives.
Nvme drives were such a mistake, they take up way too much space on the motherboard.
If they stood vertically out like PCIe cards, okay, but they don't. For some reason they are all mounted flat on the motherboard and boy is it a huge hit in motherboard real estate.
Why wouldn't you compare it to a Samsung NVME (950,990)? It's very popular drive? 🤔
does the graphics cards rendering matter much in for these benchmarks?
say a Nvidia 5000 series would obviously give better results compared to the same PCIes used than say 4000 series or 4000 series?
imagine if Optane was still going...
get them now while they are cheap. There wont be new inventory coming. It will all be sold out.
Is it that difficult to do gaming tests...
07:04 - Crystal Dix Mark :D
I'm still running SATA 2. Thinking of upgrading and using a 990 PRO. Anything will be faster than what I have, but will not really utilise anything other than more memory as I only have 6gb of DDR2
Everything happening in windows is down to random read write, the sequantial should be mentioned with 10 times smaller font. it is next to nth.
I don't really see the point in gen 5 for me. I copied 100GB between two gen4 drives the other day at it took under a minute...
Would like a test of which NVMe heatsink to buy
Imo gen5 is a waste, to sustain 10k this little drives are going to go ballistic on temperature on sustain loads, u.2/u.3 drives have much better cooling and will sustain speeds much higher than most m.2 drives, and should be the pic of people using them editing.
Great video
Gen 3 and gen 4 drives have crashed in price. Gen 5 drives are not appealing, the price makes them stupid for 95% of users.
New technical term: "big ass file"
Unless you are always transferring big files, gen3. gen4, and gen5 performs almost the same. Most of the normal processes are random reads/writes.
And small file random read/writes, low queue depth too.
6:15 I recently tried backing up my camera from a wedding (A7 IV) to a 2TB gen 4 NVMe. It started out great, went the full 300MB/s that my SD card is rated for. Then about 8GB into the 50GB of photo and video, it slowed down to 40MB/s, so i checked task manager, my SSD had overrun its SLC cache and i guess the SLC cache gets slower as the drive fills, because i dont remember it getting this slow when it only had 100GB on it.
you might have a cheap nvme then. i think the samsung series nvme's as well as sk hynix have a better cache. i never wanna use anything from wd or sandisk after my last experience.
@@LZeugirdor some Samsung do. The most consistent writer is the Samsung 970 Pro. It will keep write speeds consistent even after 800 gigs of writing while other drives like the Samsung 980 pro will fill its cache and then slow down. There’s a good bit of information on quora that I tried to link but it deleted my comment.
@@LZeugirdor It was just shy of $300, but it only had ~370GB free out of 2TB
@@denvera1g1 if you haven't over provisioned it that would explain it.
@@_B.C_ I wonder how the cache handles on the sk hynix p41. Fastest pcie gen 4 SSD I've seen. I really want to see how their gen 5 SSD will do.
Still running a 8700k octane 32gb 4090 build pc for one of my builds
Why are they printing out the results on paper ? Some waffling about drive construction , should havd done real world testing across different OS's
that test setup is a disaster. That duct tape cracked me up. I thought you were showing it as a joke.
Unfortunately it's not a joke :P
-Adam
The price of these drives seems reasonable at a little over $200 for 1 TB, but will I have to pay a small fortune for a motherboard that recognizes it?
It's really not worth it in my case. On my board, if I populate the PCIE 5.0 nvme slot, it cuts the GPU lanes down
Honestly for practical use, an optane drive will be much faster perceptually for most tasks than any of these disks. Plus with an optane drive your data is actually saved permanently instantly, no caching or risk with power loss.
Optane has been cancelled
The insane write speeds give what benefit? What can feed data to the CPU that fast to where it can output to the NVMe at such a high rate?
I understand that for reading, a CPU can call data fast enough such as game loads when you have better, higher core count CPUs (game load does many things not just reading data off a drive, and queue depth is CERTAINLY >1 during game loads. There's a lot of decompression for instance, creating instances of objects, etc....). So, I see benefit for gaming with these higher speed NVMe drives but other than that I think you need to be in the world of WS or server for the speed boost to matter.
No real-life test? Game loading? Windows start?
What about the inland td510 gen 5 ssd it has been available for a while.... like a few months now
I have no idea if we are going to need the m.2 in PCI-e 5.0 configuration because if we use it with slower drives, the speed will be limited. (except that your m/b got more than 1 pci-e 5.0 slot)
I want to know if it makes a difference in real world use. Am I going to notice? Benchmarking is great but what about real real world use?
OPTANE for real world application/use where you’ll see a lot of benefit.
So I just googled Queue depth as it relates to storage for the first time.. google timed out as I was waiting for an answer😅😅😅😅
I just dont see the value at this point atleast for average PC user or gamers for anything besides maybe gen 4. I have all gen 3 m.2's and am more than happy with them they are nice an snappy, even loading times in the forspoken demo are decent. The only utility I see at this point is being about to use the gen 5 interface to lower it to 2 lanes and maybe get more m.2/PCie devices on the same mobo.
Maybe in the future as it matures it will find a niche but right now I am not seeing it.
Yeah, definitely no point for the average consumer to buy Gen 5 right now.
-Adam
Will this be faster at loading games???
Ok I hear your arguments but.. what if I raid 0'ed 2 gen 5 nvme drives
It's not about money - but it's about giving up PCIe lanes for storage.
Now that Optane is reasonably priced, people are into more than just the 60, and 118GB Optane drives
Those 118GB drives used to be over $200, now they're $70, same story for the 960GB, used to be near or even over $1000, now they're as low as $369
Is that used prices? Optane drives like the 905p are no longer being made. If you buy new be prepared to shell out.
@@RP-ej1fm No one bought them when they were $2000, they've been on clearance for months, yes, 0 hours on them
From what we've heard there is still a lot of stock available, and the price of the 905p continues to hold at it's lowest point: www.newegg.com/intel-optane-ssd-905p-series-960gb/p/20-167-463
-Adam
@@RP-ej1fm PCWolrd posted where i got mine *new* below, they've been on sale since like September, no one bought them when they were $1000+ but $359-$400 is reasonable for what you get
Interesting. Great deal but I think this is a little less attractive since you have to plug this in a m.2 slot correct? I have the pcie version and I’ve never seen those go down in price new.
On a side note I use my optane as a windows boot drive and it makes everything so incredibly snappy. Due to the SSD price crash I recently purchased 4 - 2 TB WD SN850x drives and put them in raid 0 from the bios. I can pick and choose which drive to use for the best performance.
1:37 Gordon's Testing Rig .. yeah the "Pros" at work here. 🤦 Real World .. absolutely no one would notice any difference between any decent M.2 PCIe 3, 4 or 5!
Why don’t you go grab a snickers.
@@Aaron-ui9tj .. What?! Ah you're 8 years old...
How about Wd-black
I wonder how much cooling is an issue with m.2 drives in laptops. My Lenovo came with a PCIe 3.0 x4 drive and I wonder if I would notice a improvement if I went to a WD850x 2TB drive. It has a PCIe 4 slot but would it just get hot and throttle.
Hmmm.....no Samsung 990/980 pro's in the mix.
I’ll wait for MLC based M.2! -> PCIE 5.0.
Optane!!!
no fair that's basically a ram stick with nands on it dangit
Can we install gen5 ssd on pcie 4.0 motherboard??
Now big question; If AMD made high end 5.0 lanes AM5 APU ( instead of 4.0 ), could that APU benefit from Gen-5 NVME SSD speeds in AAA sandblox op games, and 3D Autocad program ? even if APU is powerful that requires 280mm AIO cooler.