My buddy upgraded his system 2 months ago, told him Gen4 was the sweet spot and 32gb DDR5 ram (gaming and watching vids is all he does), he buys 64gb and Gen5.....
Just upgraded my core i5 6400 pc from an hdd to a sata ssd and it made so much difference. The reason I upgraded wasbecause I got restricted in valorant for loading in so slow that it tagged me as afk.
I am going with gen 4 because the price is decent now, but a reminder that a sata ssd gets like 90 percent at least of the performance of any nvme in gaming. You could buy some sata ssds for mass game storage for extremely cheap now and the lower heat might be worth it.
sata ssds still cost a lot more than hard drives per TB, if you're not going for an nvme you're just better off getting way more storage for the same cost on something like a seagate exos hdd that's almost as fast as a sata ssd but offers a ton more capacity than you would get off of one for way less price
I'm still using SATA SSDs for my games and m.2 NVME for my OS and apps. 2~3 seconds of faster game loading on NVME is not a deal breaker for me to buy m.2s for my games.
@@nagzz06 Yep, I do have a PCI-e 4.0 capable motherboard, but I use PCI-e 3.0 M.2 drives and Sata SSDs for games - nearly no difference. Some games do load a bit faster from M.2 but that's a few seconds difference at best. Considering big game like cp2077 is loading save file for about 5 secs from Sata SSD I just don't really care about how much faster it can get. And yeah, PCI-e 3.0 M.2 are like 45C under load so I don't even see any reason to use gen4.0 drives...
@CRUNKMASTER QLC drives offer a compelling alternative to HDDs at a slight premium. Sure, 20TB HDDs currently offer more capacity : dollar, but their lifespan is a fraction of an SSD's. That alone is likely more valuable to most users.
I upgraded my 11-year-old laptop with Sata ssd and 8 GB RAM and that thing runs so smoothly and works wonders for browsering the web and using Word on it. I didn't even want to try it with the old hard drive when I found it 😅.
Don't know which model you got but there is a chance that you can get in an nvme drive into an unused slot using an adapter (mini-pcie to nvme) and it works fairly well though limited to around sata speeds due to the drives running at pci-e 2.0 1X. Pretty funny how something a decade old can have two such drives while there are loads of modern laptops only having a single slot and absolutely nothing else for storage. My daily laptop with some crazy modding can have up to 7 SSDs installed.
@MrKillswitch88 Oh wow that's pretty crazy. Hmm, that's a good shout, Idk if it does have it. But tbh I don't want to get that, if the SATA ssd is good enough for me. Also how annoying how hard new laptops are to get into, while for my old laptops, there are literally like 2 screws and you can easily upgrade ram and storage.
Depends on price also, gen4s are getting decently cheap and some gen3s are a real steal price performance wise. I did have to reinstall Windows recently, I think Asus bloatware app got me on both my nvidia and amd rigs just ran the remover tool earlier today just in case it got included with my BIOS update &/ Windows installs somehow. I only have gen3 & 4 nvme slots also, hmm... interesting thoughts about it, really will depend on price and cooling.
15 seconds to load a game of Civilization 6 and you call that slow. I remember playing the original game on my Amiga 500; it took 15 minutes to load a game.
I feel this video was misleading with the Gen4 drive speeds. You used one of the oldest and slowest “first gen” Gen4 drives with an old memory controller. Current Gen4 drives are almost 50% faster in reads and writes. No one with any knowledge would be putting one of those old drives in a new system.
@@robinenbernhard You don't even NEED a fan on one as long as it has a fat enough heat sink. It's like saying ITX motherboards are loud and not worth because you bought one with a fan on it.
This is 'cast off' from the datacenter where it's actually useful right now. When you need to saturate 100G and (soon) 400G links then you need high IO and throughput and the heat is much less of an issue with form factors other than M.2 and datacenter cooling. Given time for direct storage to get into more games and what not and honestly gen 3/4 would probably still be fine for most but economies of scale means at some point it will be more expensive to make so might as well start working on gen 5 now. The thing I'd like to see is M.2 go away, I'd prefer U.2 or something similar at the consumer level.
i would love to be able to grab a big ass u3 drive for my home system without having to use an adapter card, but i think m2 will remain the standard because it's small and most people still aren't using more than 2tbs at a time for... whatever reason
@@CrunkmasterAs drives get faster and run hotter M.2 is less and less appealing. If you have to add a heat sink and/or a fan it pretty much defeats the purpose of M.2 form factor. I get what you are saying but still think it's a substandard solution now with gen5.
@@nadtz while I agree that blasting a fan at it is a poor solution, necessity often drives invention so we'll see what happens. Maybe they will find a way to transfer more efficiently that doesn't create as much heat
The problem with this testing is that you never empty the cache. Especially on a single storage, put them in a Raid 60 system, and we talk other numbers, mostly in datacenters where drives have to provide for multiple tenants.
Will say there is some advantages of using sata SSDs is the low cost as there are some crazy good 2TB going for less than $50 on the used market that are primarily from data centers with some insane TBW ratings. Gotten one drive a couple weeks ago that is rated for 12,300 TBW that was barely used for $75.
This is especially true for the higher caps. 4TB EVOs (TLC) and 8TB QVOs (QLC) have pretty stellar sales. They make for great data drives, the perfect substitute for HDDs.
I currently run: 500gb M.2 gen 4 2tb m.2 gen 4 5 x 2tb ssd 1 x 10tb hdd Honestly cannot tell the difference between m.2 and ssd. The hdd is noticeably slower but for general storage it's fine. Games are slower to load (obviously) but stuttering isn't too much of an issue on older titles.
Gen 5 is only good for those who move and edit large files (content creation/editing). For normal day to day work and even gaming, most processes are random reads and writes. Try benchmarking these drives for random reads and writes and gen3/gen4 and gen5 would almost have the same results. My MB is gen3 but I chose gen4 drives to saturate the bandwidth - best option so far especially that nvme drives are dirt cheap compared to SATA SSDs.
Okay... Question, when running the gen 5, was it plugged into a gen 5 slot, if not, there's the explanation for why is wasn't incredibly faster, especially considering that that theoretical speed 2-way is 128 GB/s...Here's the other half of that equation, IF you were running the gen 5 in a gen5 slot(SSD's run @x4), then it was presumably shared with the GPU for PCIe lane, and the GPU running PCIe 5.0x8... There are so many things that affect drive performance, slot location being one of them...running through the chipset vs directly through the CPU being the biggest... I have had(and still do) a recent conundrum dealing with very subject...
" theoretical speed 2-way is 128 GB/s" - Yes, theoretical. One-way is relevant = 64 GB/s with 16xLanes... and almost all SSDs now use 4 lanes -> 16GB/s brutto, and netto you get max. ~14960 MB/s. (only in reads, writes will reach ~14GB/s at most). "it was presumably shared with the GPU for PCIe lane, and the GPU running PCIe 5.0x8" - no, not in his system. It would be IF he had an Intel system, AMD AM5 x670E can run 2x Gen5.0-SSD AND GPUx16. Or 4x Gen5.0 SSDs and GPUx8. "running through the chipset vs directly through the CPU" - yes, but not in this case, cause there is no chipset, that can provide 5.0-lanes yet, as by now, all 5.0-lanes come from CPU.
This was quite an informative test, and it is greatly appreciated. I have a pretty large collection of games. So, for the sake of capacity, they reside on a pair of hard drives in Raid 0. I think a test of such a setup would reveal that they approach the performance of a SATA SSD.
the problem with RAID is for most people watching videos like these wouldn't know how to set one up, it's just too complicated and uncommon these days.
@arnone1862 More so than that, RAID 0's benefits have simply diminished as speeds have increased. An SSD will outlast multiple consecutive HDDs, and RAID itself introduces further failure rate. Most users are better off just getting a faster drive, for which there are many options.
@@redslate Obviously your statement about hard drive failure rates is correct. But it would be prohibitively expensive to replace my storage setup with an SSD equivalent. I have a 20TB raid that's 62% full on which my games reside and a 40TB raid that's 72% full of videos I'm using for making TH-cam videos. My operating system and apps I use most often are on a 2TB NVMe. I forgot to mention that I also have 16TB of external hard drive storage holding more videos. I'm not even sure it's possible to reproduce this setup with SSDs.
@@captaindaedalus1 It's always a balance. I agree, your situation isn't currently suited for a full transition to SSDs, but you would benefit tremendously from moving over your production workflow to SSDs. You might even consider long-term (read-only) storage for your finalized footage/B-roll. Magnetic tape is cost-effective. I do some video editing myself.
@@redslate These are good suggestions. During production, I think I will use my MVMe by placing temporary copies of the necessary videos there. Still though, it appears that whenever a bottleneck occurs, it's not caused by the hard drives. Generally, I can render videos at 120 fps, but when it does bog down during strongly altered parts, the cause is a combination of the CPU and the GPU. I don't think I'll be investing in magnetic tape storage, but I do appreciate your recommendations. Thanks for your insight.
The problem with Sata is there's little point getting it for lots of people, in any new system because it's more expensive than NVME now. Even Gen 3 in April 24 is not reliably cheaper and of course prices have gone up across the board, which is not nice. You can probably get a Gen 4 right now that's at price parity with the Gen 3s you'll find, and even the 7,000+ ones with DRAM aren't much more than the 5,000 older ones without it, or the PCI 3 ones. I've got a whole little chart with current models and prices as I'm trying to do an upgrade. What I'd really like is a 2Tb NVME but capacity is where prices get crazy. A 1Tb will suffice though. Crucial T500 1Tb, 7,300 £86 on Amazon down from £119 (no heatsink). Anything else I'd consider has to beat that in either capacity or price and still have DRAM.
This is true on Intel because they have 4 PCIE lanes less than AMD. Which is why both motherboards only support 1 Gen 5 SSD for speed. Consumer motherboards do not have enough PCIE lanes to to take advantage of Gen 5 nor is consumer software able to take advantage of it.
@1:26 "What do you notice on this box?" Not a single damn thing because you don't hold it still long enough to even see wtf it is. It's a video about a product, not a basketball game... you hold the product still so people can actually see it, if just for a moment. Dial down the psycho.
I think the truth is, dispute the read/write rates they say for advertising. There really doesn't seem to be much of a difference (for gaming anyway) for any of the "gen 3-5" ssds that seem truly worth moving from one to another unless you happen to need to upgrade anyway
I think the point alot of people forget when thinking about this topic is, system response time and program hangups. They become non issues with a fast nvme with DRAM vs when you have it on a regular ssd system response times can reach upto 5 seconds if you are multitasking. If you have words for your pc every time you touch file Explorer, you will be congratulating yourself for the investment for a good nvme
even the cheapest m2 drives are usually rated for a minimum of 1 million hours, lol. realistically they'll probably last you 10 years, even with pretty heavy use
they do run hot, but so does every other piece of hardware in a pc. stock cooling is usually enough, but if it's something you were REALLY worried about there are aftermarket solutions - some people watercool their drives, as ridiculous as that sounds. most of these faster m2s have the option to ship with big heatsinks, and lots of motherboards have dedicated panels with built in heat spreaders for cooling the fastest and hottest drives and even these lightning fast gen5 drives seem to do well enough with standard cooling like that i just don't think it's something you would really have to worry about unless you were a professional editor/artist/filmmaker or something like that who creates, stores, and processes massive amounts of data every day. the average pc user would be fine with either a budget gen3 drive at 3,000 or so read/write speed or a top of the line gen5 that can push 10,000 plus and they'll more than likely last about the same amount of time with the same amount of use
i would say technically yes, they probably do have a shorter lifespan, but those chips are designed to function at maximum speed until they hit 90 or 100 degrees C. but even then most people won't use the same hardware long enough for it to fail on them; by the time anything in your system would fail (excluding a faulty part that dies prematurely) your hardware should be all but obsolete - i'm still dragging my i7-8700k and gtx 1080 system from early 2018 along because everything in it works well even after being ran hard for over 5 years straight and is showing no signs of stopping anytime soon, but it definitely doesn't feel high end anymore
The thing that nobody is talking about with Gen 5 is the ridiculous heat and the E26 isn't performing great. These things are coming with their own air coolers. With GPUs and CPUs both creating more heat, too, I feel like PCs are just going to be a monitor hooked up to a ball of hot plasma in 20 years.
After seeing this video, I’m planning on buying either a Crucial T700 4TB PCIe 5.0 or a Samsung 990 Pro 4TB PCIe 4.0 in the future. What should I buy? Let me know. Edit 1: I’m also buying a ROG Maximus Z790 Dark Hero motherboard as well, but its first M.2 slot which is PCIE 5.0 ready shares bandwidth with both PCIE slots, so I’ll have to insert the SSD into the M.2_2 slot.
bought one Samsung 990 Pro 4TB PCIe 4.0 myself 2 hours ago. Because game SSD 2TB is already almost full for 75%. Because replacing motherboard and cpu for AM5.. Then also go bigger on steam gaming SSD.
All that really matters is that you have an SSD. Hardware Unboxed did a test of a bunch of different games years ago and found that while NVMe was faster than SATA, if it was a SATA SSD, hairs were being split. I have two 2TB NVMe Gen3 drives that I game with and they're just blazingly fast and don't require heatsinks. They're not Samsung or Corsair or any fancy name like that either. They're just "cheap" Team Group MP33 2TB drives that I got for $90CAD each at Canada Computers on sale. Getting 4TB of NVMe storage for under $200CAD is an absolute STEAL! Noobs care about brands, but experts only care about specs.
@@bbrownlmao well depends on where you live some places have ridiculous price like 512 samsung with slow read write speed is as costly as xpg 1tb with almost twice the read and write speed
from what ive heard playstations can only utilize about 5000-6000ish mbs per second due to the hardware. sony really trying to rope em in hard with this
I doubt in real world use that you will notice any difference. It is almost impossible to notice any difference between a SATA SSD and a good pcie Gen 4 drive. The thing that is very real is the extra heat from the fast drives and possible thermal throttling if the drive is worked hard.
@@geoffreyveale7715 I haven’t had any problems and the speed hasn’t bothered me at all! I timed the start up and it took 59.10 seconds to boot up which isn’t bad not sure how fast other peoples are tho 😂
Hi I'm new to the pc gaming side I got this pc Acer Predator Orion 3000 PO3-630 Gaming PC - (Intel Core i7-11700F, 16GB, 1TB HDD and 512GB SSD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 been playing Forza Horizon 4 an 5 an the New Forza Motorsport ACC and F1. They seem to be a bit slow in loading plan to us my VR headset on it too what should I upgrade and what to any help would be very much appreciated ?? I mainly do racing and a little VR at the moment will do more of.
some MB (MSI PRO X670-P) comes with PCI gen5 close to the CPU, I wish the water cooling comes with combo for both in future designs, that would be nice, maybe a 4TB gen5 water cooling CPU+Gen5 M.2. but we'll see, ..
Still 1TB Gen3 SSD Systempartition and 2TB Gen3 SSD Storage running and perfectly happy, and i am pretty sure that i wouldn´t notice anything speedwise with newer Gen SSDs. Maybe in direct comparison side by side but that is a stupid reason paying 300-400€ more for a very small upgrade
Shocking truths? 1. Unless your constantly moving large files. You'll never notice. Even sata ssd's are fast. 2. Even ddr3 is fast. 3. A 3090 ti can't saturate pcie gen 2x16. Let alone gen 3, 4 or 5. 4. Most of what we make our purchase decisions on, especially for tech, is 99% marketing garbage. 5. And the list could go on for days.....
If I move my Gen 5 nvme onto my Dimm.2 card and downgrade it back to pcie4 can my 4090 gain back PCIEX4x16? I will admit I was duped and bought a gen 5 ssd for my new Apex Encore build. I currently have two gen 4 drives in slots 2 and 3 and I have a gen 5 drive in the first slot beneath the CPU and my 4090 is operating at pci 4x8 instead of 4x16. I can't return my gen 5 drive anymore so could I insert in the dimm.2 card and run it slower but gain back GPU bandwidth?
Yeah that is what I ended up doing and gained back the the PCI bandwidth for my 4090. On the games I was playing there was a massive difference.@@cooldaddyslick6869
My ASRock B550M Pro-SE motherboard has two M2 2280 sockets, (1) Gen4 x4 & (1) Gen3 x4. I opted for the "ultra-fast" 1TB Lexar NM790 NVMe M2 in the Gen4 socket (primary) and an "economical" 2TB Team Group MP33 NVMe M2 in the Gen3 socket (secondary). Windows 11 and all of my startup applications load instantaneously upon entering my pin and I'm fairly certain it's also made a decisive contribution to the amazing speed with which complex image editing/manipulation operations take place on my new build. To be honest, I can't yet vouch for the 2TB Gen3 M2 secondary drive, as I've yet to put it to actual use. But, "after watching this video" I feel even better about it than I already did.
i'm still going to stick with gen 3 ssd at max. although i would like to have bigger capacity at gen 3 at min.... Sata kinda screwy pricing in my country when you go on same capacity.
The only game I've found SSD speeds making a difference is Starfield, (atleast at launch) I have 2 NVME drives in my PC, with it being restricted to gen 2 and other at gen 3 speeds as I was on AM4 450 chipset, and running the game on gen 2 speeds led to constant stutters, moving it to gen 3 improved things dramatically, I ended up upgrading my PC just to get Gen 4 and Gen 5.
Gen 2 x1 PCIE speeds (~500MB/s) should be _comparable_ to SATA III (~600MB/s), and most NVME drives are running minimum x2 (usually x4), giving them a distict advantage. Even so, there's currently a negligible difference in games when comparing SSDs be it SATA or NVME. I'd check the specs of the drive and the motherboard. The jump seen from "Gen 2" to "Gen 3" was likely just an increase in the quality of chosen components rather than the standards referenced.
@@redslate I was using a PCIE2x4 slot and the Crystalmark was giving me over 1500MB speeds. This was a issue with Starfield on launch, it was hitting SSD's hard, even people with higher end NVMe's were getting issues, it was later patched, I've since upgraded to the AM4 platform, so my NVMe drive now uses it's full advertised speeds, and no longer have the same issues, (not sure if this is due to Bethesda's patch or the system upgrade though.)
I have a small fast SSD that is fully dedicated to Primo Cache and big slower HD's. I only experience slow loading times the first time I start a program/game or after a longer time of not using the program/game. The same with rendering programs I use. Most of the times programs are cached by the SSD and I don't had to pay the high prices for a big SSD and the cache hit ratio in my case is over 90%. For the 30$ Primo Cache lifetime license costs I can't buy a big fast SSD of the same size my HD's are.
@@drjones762 I like it - there are standard methods of caching available you can use and you can always make your own strategy. Write only, read only, R/W cache, delayed writing etc. you can exclude drives from caching and you can have more than one strategy. My system drive is PCIE gen 4 and I see no sense in caching it, but I moved my profile folder and the temporary directories to other drives that are cached.
So i did a good choise getting a samsung 970 evo plus 1tb So far i didnt play anything that i have transfered on it, but so far most kf my games have been on a samsung 870 evo sata....and everything was ok at speeds. Like no problem loading even cyberpunk or red dead 2 in a few seconds. So i don't expect big changes. Anyway, that probably is the diminishing returns in ssd's.
I Bought a SATA SSD two days from now, and i see the differences with my old HDD, but based on what iv'e seen on the video, i prefer SATA over PciE drives because the lower temps and the very small difference in loading times
The jump from HDD to SSD was like the jump from dial up to broadband or VHS to DVD. Since then it's mostly been incremental improvements. I was really disappointed when I moved from 500MBps SSD to 3000MBps NVMe. The leap in performance was not really felt. Law of diminishing returns...as with so much PC tech now.
respect for calling them out. SSD having a cable and a loud fan is a huge deal breaker for me
You do realize NVMe drives get warm right? Why do you suppose thermal pads are used for NVMe drives? Or why some have integrated heatsinks?
@@ResidentWeevil2077 My nvme has a heatsink as well but I dont want it to have a fan and be loud and also i dont want one more cable!
@@drakata27 You handled his sarcasm and lack of reading comprehension better than I would.
@@ResidentWeevil2077active cooling on a ssd is just dumb 😂😂😂
@@pdrey100what can you handle anyways? 😂
My buddy upgraded his system 2 months ago, told him Gen4 was the sweet spot and 32gb DDR5 ram (gaming and watching vids is all he does), he buys 64gb and Gen5.....
lol
Did he ask you, or did you give an advice he dont want?😅 i hate getting some 1s opinion if I didnt ask.😅
@@Besotted85H asked what to buy, so i gave him options, a 5800X3D and 7800X3D setups, bang for buck and ballz to the wall.
future proofing lmao
People like this deserve to get scammed
People have really tried to find a good reason to get Gen 5 SSD but they really struggled
@@kran1al9251 month and still no comments. Sounds like they’re not very common, Broseph.
Productivity
Just upgraded my core i5 6400 pc from an hdd to a sata ssd and it made so much difference.
The reason I upgraded wasbecause I got restricted in valorant for loading in so slow that it tagged me as afk.
idk why but it tagging you afk cracked me up.
Lmfao
Remember my words GEN 4 M.2'S IS THE SWEET SPOT
Gen 3 is the best price to performence. You don’t need crazy fast downloads unless your downloading games every hour 😂 gen 3 is just so cheap now
@@rachellemarie7559No it isn’t you can get a Gen 4 NVME 2TB Samsung 990 Pro for $120. If that’s to expensive for you get a better job.
but all the tests are showing gen 3 is like within a second or two of gen 4?
@@pezdacandyboiWhy the hell would you spend the same amount of money for something that is factually inferior?
@@ZackSNetwork so the gen 4 is factually inferior to Gen 5. So..why buy gen 4?
I am going with gen 4 because the price is decent now, but a reminder that a sata ssd gets like 90 percent at least of the performance of any nvme in gaming. You could buy some sata ssds for mass game storage for extremely cheap now and the lower heat might be worth it.
sata ssds still cost a lot more than hard drives per TB, if you're not going for an nvme you're just better off getting way more storage for the same cost on something like a seagate exos hdd that's almost as fast as a sata ssd but offers a ton more capacity than you would get off of one for way less price
I'm still using SATA SSDs for my games and m.2 NVME for my OS and apps. 2~3 seconds of faster game loading on NVME is not a deal breaker for me to buy m.2s for my games.
@@nagzz06 Yep, I do have a PCI-e 4.0 capable motherboard, but I use PCI-e 3.0 M.2 drives and Sata SSDs for games - nearly no difference. Some games do load a bit faster from M.2 but that's a few seconds difference at best. Considering big game like cp2077 is loading save file for about 5 secs from Sata SSD I just don't really care about how much faster it can get. And yeah, PCI-e 3.0 M.2 are like 45C under load so I don't even see any reason to use gen4.0 drives...
@CRUNKMASTER QLC drives offer a compelling alternative to HDDs at a slight premium.
Sure, 20TB HDDs currently offer more capacity : dollar, but their lifespan is a fraction of an SSD's. That alone is likely more valuable to most users.
I upgraded my 11-year-old laptop with Sata ssd and 8 GB RAM and that thing runs so smoothly and works wonders for browsering the web and using Word on it. I didn't even want to try it with the old hard drive when I found it 😅.
Don't know which model you got but there is a chance that you can get in an nvme drive into an unused slot using an adapter (mini-pcie to nvme) and it works fairly well though limited to around sata speeds due to the drives running at pci-e 2.0 1X. Pretty funny how something a decade old can have two such drives while there are loads of modern laptops only having a single slot and absolutely nothing else for storage. My daily laptop with some crazy modding can have up to 7 SSDs installed.
@MrKillswitch88 Oh wow that's pretty crazy. Hmm, that's a good shout, Idk if it does have it. But tbh I don't want to get that, if the SATA ssd is good enough for me. Also how annoying how hard new laptops are to get into, while for my old laptops, there are literally like 2 screws and you can easily upgrade ram and storage.
@@AuroraButterflyx No point in getting better than SATA SSD for 11 year old laptop. SATA SSD is already getting most out of it in real world use.
I'm stuck on PCIE 3.0 currently, but looks like I don't have anything to worry about for a while.
imo i think its gonna last at least til window 12 lmao
@@kurotaL61200 I've upgraded to AM5 PCIE 5.0 since this comment, but I feel ya.
@@captainshiner42 lol gotcha, hope it last 10 years
@@kurotaL61200 Same.
@@captainshiner42 so, any noticeable differences?
Depends on price also, gen4s are getting decently cheap and some gen3s are a real steal price performance wise. I did have to reinstall Windows recently, I think Asus bloatware app got me on both my nvidia and amd rigs just ran the remover tool earlier today just in case it got included with my BIOS update &/ Windows installs somehow. I only have gen3 & 4 nvme slots also, hmm... interesting thoughts about it, really will depend on price and cooling.
15 seconds to load a game of Civilization 6 and you call that slow. I remember playing the original game on my Amiga 500; it took 15 minutes to load a game.
Yeah but 10 of those 15 minutes was the crack screen. 🤣
I feel this video was misleading with the Gen4 drive speeds. You used one of the oldest and slowest “first gen” Gen4 drives with an old memory controller. Current Gen4 drives are almost 50% faster in reads and writes. No one with any knowledge would be putting one of those old drives in a new system.
and he show Gen5 SSD with fan on with case open. if he close case you wil not hear fan at all
@@robinenbernhard You don't even NEED a fan on one as long as it has a fat enough heat sink. It's like saying ITX motherboards are loud and not worth because you bought one with a fan on it.
This is 'cast off' from the datacenter where it's actually useful right now. When you need to saturate 100G and (soon) 400G links then you need high IO and throughput and the heat is much less of an issue with form factors other than M.2 and datacenter cooling. Given time for direct storage to get into more games and what not and honestly gen 3/4 would probably still be fine for most but economies of scale means at some point it will be more expensive to make so might as well start working on gen 5 now. The thing I'd like to see is M.2 go away, I'd prefer U.2 or something similar at the consumer level.
i would love to be able to grab a big ass u3 drive for my home system without having to use an adapter card, but i think m2 will remain the standard because it's small and most people still aren't using more than 2tbs at a time for... whatever reason
@@CrunkmasterAs drives get faster and run hotter M.2 is less and less appealing. If you have to add a heat sink and/or a fan it pretty much defeats the purpose of M.2 form factor. I get what you are saying but still think it's a substandard solution now with gen5.
m.2 isn't going anywhere soon. as the technology matures, they'll find better solutions or they'll just shrink it
@@anthonyp9591 The better solution is a form factor that is meant to handle the heat generated. Glad you agree with me!
@@nadtz while I agree that blasting a fan at it is a poor solution, necessity often drives invention so we'll see what happens. Maybe they will find a way to transfer more efficiently that doesn't create as much heat
The problem with this testing is that you never empty the cache. Especially on a single storage, put them in a Raid 60 system, and we talk other numbers, mostly in datacenters where drives have to provide for multiple tenants.
Will say there is some advantages of using sata SSDs is the low cost as there are some crazy good 2TB going for less than $50 on the used market that are primarily from data centers with some insane TBW ratings. Gotten one drive a couple weeks ago that is rated for 12,300 TBW that was barely used for $75.
This is especially true for the higher caps. 4TB EVOs (TLC) and 8TB QVOs (QLC) have pretty stellar sales. They make for great data drives, the perfect substitute for HDDs.
I currently run:
500gb M.2 gen 4
2tb m.2 gen 4
5 x 2tb ssd
1 x 10tb hdd
Honestly cannot tell the difference between m.2 and ssd. The hdd is noticeably slower but for general storage it's fine. Games are slower to load (obviously) but stuttering isn't too much of an issue on older titles.
Most (older) games have set time for loading, other players would have an advantage with stupendous fast systems.
This guy stores
What are you storing
@@GrigRP about 150 games.
5x2t is a sata orbssd 3.0?
I bought myself gen 4 m.2 and probably will not upgrade to a gen 5 or higher for the next 5 years. 😅
Gen 5 is only good for those who move and edit large files (content creation/editing). For normal day to day work and even gaming, most processes are random reads and writes. Try benchmarking these drives for random reads and writes and gen3/gen4 and gen5 would almost have the same results. My MB is gen3 but I chose gen4 drives to saturate the bandwidth - best option so far especially that nvme drives are dirt cheap compared to SATA SSDs.
Okay...
Question, when running the gen 5, was it plugged into a gen 5 slot, if not, there's the explanation for why is wasn't incredibly faster, especially considering that that theoretical speed 2-way is 128 GB/s...Here's the other half of that equation, IF you were running the gen 5 in a gen5 slot(SSD's run @x4), then it was presumably shared with the GPU for PCIe lane, and the GPU running PCIe 5.0x8...
There are so many things that affect drive performance, slot location being one of them...running through the chipset vs directly through the CPU being the biggest...
I have had(and still do) a recent conundrum dealing with very subject...
" theoretical speed 2-way is 128 GB/s" - Yes, theoretical. One-way is relevant = 64 GB/s with 16xLanes... and almost all SSDs now use 4 lanes -> 16GB/s brutto, and netto you get max. ~14960 MB/s. (only in reads, writes will reach ~14GB/s at most).
"it was presumably shared with the GPU for PCIe lane, and the GPU running PCIe 5.0x8" - no, not in his system. It would be IF he had an Intel system, AMD AM5 x670E can run 2x Gen5.0-SSD AND GPUx16. Or 4x Gen5.0 SSDs and GPUx8.
"running through the chipset vs directly through the CPU" - yes, but not in this case, cause there is no chipset, that can provide 5.0-lanes yet, as by now, all 5.0-lanes come from CPU.
Graphics cards only support PCIe 4 so it would be PCIe 4 x8, not PCIe 5@@Wlad1
@@mitsuhh I know, and that's exactly why I wrote "GPUx8" and not "GPU 5.0x8".
This was quite an informative test, and it is greatly appreciated. I have a pretty large collection of games. So, for the sake of capacity, they reside on a pair of hard drives in Raid 0. I think a test of such a setup would reveal that they approach the performance of a SATA SSD.
the problem with RAID is for most people watching videos like these wouldn't know how to set one up, it's just too complicated and uncommon these days.
@arnone1862 More so than that, RAID 0's benefits have simply diminished as speeds have increased.
An SSD will outlast multiple consecutive HDDs, and RAID itself introduces further failure rate. Most users are better off just getting a faster drive, for which there are many options.
@@redslate Obviously your statement about hard drive failure rates is correct. But it would be prohibitively expensive to replace my storage setup with an SSD equivalent. I have a 20TB raid that's 62% full on which my games reside and a 40TB raid that's 72% full of videos I'm using for making TH-cam videos. My operating system and apps I use most often are on a 2TB NVMe. I forgot to mention that I also have 16TB of external hard drive storage holding more videos. I'm not even sure it's possible to reproduce this setup with SSDs.
@@captaindaedalus1 It's always a balance. I agree, your situation isn't currently suited for a full transition to SSDs, but you would benefit tremendously from moving over your production workflow to SSDs.
You might even consider long-term (read-only) storage for your finalized footage/B-roll. Magnetic tape is cost-effective.
I do some video editing myself.
@@redslate These are good suggestions. During production, I think I will use my MVMe by placing temporary copies of the necessary videos there. Still though, it appears that whenever a bottleneck occurs, it's not caused by the hard drives. Generally, I can render videos at 120 fps, but when it does bog down during strongly altered parts, the cause is a combination of the CPU and the GPU.
I don't think I'll be investing in magnetic tape storage, but I do appreciate your recommendations. Thanks for your insight.
You need to test more than the drive you tested. You need other Gen 5,Gen 4,& Gen 3 drives. One sample is not enough to validate the tests
We did this test with gen 4 a couple years back, saw the exact same thing
I'll not suffer the cost and the noise to pocket less than two seconds of my day. Thank you, very much.
The problem with Sata is there's little point getting it for lots of people, in any new system because it's more expensive than NVME now. Even Gen 3 in April 24 is not reliably cheaper and of course prices have gone up across the board, which is not nice. You can probably get a Gen 4 right now that's at price parity with the Gen 3s you'll find, and even the 7,000+ ones with DRAM aren't much more than the 5,000 older ones without it, or the PCI 3 ones. I've got a whole little chart with current models and prices as I'm trying to do an upgrade. What I'd really like is a 2Tb NVME but capacity is where prices get crazy. A 1Tb will suffice though. Crucial T500 1Tb, 7,300 £86 on Amazon down from £119 (no heatsink). Anything else I'd consider has to beat that in either capacity or price and still have DRAM.
If I use my Gen 5 NVME slot, it turns my GPU slot to Gen 4x8 from 4x16. Add that to all the negatives….
Depends on the motherboard you have. But gen 5 just flat out isn't worth it just for gaming the difference even between gen 3 is barely minimal.
i must be missing something, as when you said listen to the noise i diddnt hear anything.....
I heard these Gen 5 drives compete with graphics cards like the 4090 for lanes or some such on the mobo. Any info on this?
This is true on Intel because they have 4 PCIE lanes less than AMD. Which is why both motherboards only support 1 Gen 5 SSD for speed. Consumer motherboards do not have enough PCIE lanes to to take advantage of Gen 5 nor is consumer software able to take advantage of it.
Moving from HDD to any of the other ones is the huge upgrade. You'll wonder how you ever lived with a HDD😂
Remember my words: 5.25" floppy disk is the sweet spot ❤
made me lol
This is NOT a comparison of PCIE4 vs 5, it's a comparison of some PCIE4 drives to a PCIE5 Adata M.2 SSD
Why can't the Fan be powered through the PCI-e itself.
Because it's not connected to the card electronically. It just sits on top
If somebody have 15sec for map loading, they also have 30sec as well.
Go for gen3 with higher storage , Its better than paying extra for loading stuff just 1 second faster.
also... just get 7k write/read GEN4 ssd.... beats most gen4, but doesnt produce as much heat as gen5
As a photographer who games on the side, I'm more concerned with capacity than speed. I'm looking at multiple 4tb drives in my new build
@1:26 "What do you notice on this box?" Not a single damn thing because you don't hold it still long enough to even see wtf it is. It's a video about a product, not a basketball game... you hold the product still so people can actually see it, if just for a moment. Dial down the psycho.
I think the truth is, dispute the read/write rates they say for advertising. There really doesn't seem to be much of a difference (for gaming anyway) for any of the "gen 3-5" ssds that seem truly worth moving from one to another unless you happen to need to upgrade anyway
but what about boot times is it faster or the same??????
I think the point alot of people forget when thinking about this topic is, system response time and program hangups. They become non issues with a fast nvme with DRAM vs when you have it on a regular ssd system response times can reach upto 5 seconds if you are multitasking. If you have words for your pc every time you touch file Explorer, you will be congratulating yourself for the investment for a good nvme
Thanks for deploying that other keyboard leg! For some reason, it was the only thing I could focus on when on-screen. I need help...
tbh ssds are so good anything above pcie gen 3 isnt worth it unless prices come down
Great video. Challenging to make I'm sure. Always good content here. Cheers sir.
Im still using an 870 EVO for my games.... i dont know if i should use m.2..
It's fast but how long can a drive like that last?
even the cheapest m2 drives are usually rated for a minimum of 1 million hours, lol. realistically they'll probably last you 10 years, even with pretty heavy use
Yes but you said the more heat it generates the shorter the life span, these faster drives run very hot.@@Crunkmaster
they do run hot, but so does every other piece of hardware in a pc. stock cooling is usually enough, but if it's something you were REALLY worried about there are aftermarket solutions - some people watercool their drives, as ridiculous as that sounds. most of these faster m2s have the option to ship with big heatsinks, and lots of motherboards have dedicated panels with built in heat spreaders for cooling the fastest and hottest drives and even these lightning fast gen5 drives seem to do well enough with standard cooling like that
i just don't think it's something you would really have to worry about unless you were a professional editor/artist/filmmaker or something like that who creates, stores, and processes massive amounts of data every day. the average pc user would be fine with either a budget gen3 drive at 3,000 or so read/write speed or a top of the line gen5 that can push 10,000 plus and they'll more than likely last about the same amount of time with the same amount of use
Yes you are right, which makes me wonder if a faster cpu and gpu will have shorter life spands too.@@Crunkmaster
i would say technically yes, they probably do have a shorter lifespan, but those chips are designed to function at maximum speed until they hit 90 or 100 degrees C. but even then most people won't use the same hardware long enough for it to fail on them; by the time anything in your system would fail (excluding a faulty part that dies prematurely) your hardware should be all but obsolete - i'm still dragging my i7-8700k and gtx 1080 system from early 2018 along because everything in it works well even after being ran hard for over 5 years straight and is showing no signs of stopping anytime soon, but it definitely doesn't feel high end anymore
The thing that nobody is talking about with Gen 5 is the ridiculous heat and the E26 isn't performing great. These things are coming with their own air coolers. With GPUs and CPUs both creating more heat, too, I feel like PCs are just going to be a monitor hooked up to a ball of hot plasma in 20 years.
Using Teamgroup mp34 with D ram cache no need for PCIE 5 gen drives runs too hot and barely a difference in games
Would you know why my bios update for my new build hasn't stopped blinking?
Put it all together then it wouldnt turn on at all, did a bios flash update an its been about 45 minutes of blinking ):
The keyboard leaning on one leg is aggravating my OCD😂
Best channel out in YT Land for PC builders... can't beat it!
thank you for testing this!
Is the GPU affected/running slower when using a PCIe 5.0 SSD?
Yes it goes from 16 to 8
gen4 is the sweetspot right now.
It will probably be in the ps6 generation where we gonna need something faster
What would you say is the best gaming pc that some with roughly £615 (around $750) could build?
used
Thank you for the informational video marcus😎👍. Now I know what to buy for my new build
Hi there! What mobo did you use to test this?
Q: with 10 Gbps cable, running games over the Internet is cheaper than buying new hardware
Do you guys ship merch to the USA?
Mouse mats ship to USA yep!
After seeing this video, I’m planning on buying either a Crucial T700 4TB PCIe 5.0 or a Samsung 990 Pro 4TB PCIe 4.0 in the future. What should I buy? Let me know.
Edit 1: I’m also buying a ROG Maximus Z790 Dark Hero motherboard as well, but its first M.2 slot which is PCIE 5.0 ready shares bandwidth with both PCIE slots, so I’ll have to insert the SSD into the M.2_2 slot.
Crucial P3 Plus 4TB. You'll save money and you won't notice the difference.
990 pro for sure. Far more longevity if you don't want to upgrade for a long time
bought one Samsung 990 Pro 4TB PCIe 4.0 myself 2 hours ago. Because game SSD 2TB is already almost full for 75%. Because replacing motherboard and cpu for AM5.. Then also go bigger on steam gaming SSD.
ssd gen 5 for short term type of stuff and root, apps, packs, and gen 4 for storage vids/pics, long term stuff that u dont need to update
Massive thumbs up for your warning and criticism of the fan at the start of the video and an excellent review 👍 Cheers, Dave.
What brand and model is that monitor?
5:33 It's not who I think it is right? Marcus?
What fans are those?
What's the make and model is that pc case?
Surprising, how little of a gap there really is.
All that really matters is that you have an SSD. Hardware Unboxed did a test of a bunch of different games years ago and found that while NVMe was faster than SATA, if it was a SATA SSD, hairs were being split. I have two 2TB NVMe Gen3 drives that I game with and they're just blazingly fast and don't require heatsinks. They're not Samsung or Corsair or any fancy name like that either. They're just "cheap" Team Group MP33 2TB drives that I got for $90CAD each at Canada Computers on sale. Getting 4TB of NVMe storage for under $200CAD is an absolute STEAL!
Noobs care about brands, but experts only care about specs.
i got 2 tb 990 pro for 160 cad on sale which was worth it, read write is 5x for a little less than twice what u paid, get wrecked actual noob
@@bbrownlmao well depends on where you live some places have ridiculous price like 512 samsung with slow read write speed is as costly as xpg 1tb with almost twice the read and write speed
@@c0sman canada's prices are crazy for pc parts but if you can wait for sales like black friday or boxing day you can get good deals
Hey. Should I get Samsung 990 Pro M.2 4TB for 410€ or Western Digital Black SN850X M.2 4TB for 330€?
The 4 terabyte drive, those two drives are just as good as eachother, get the higher capacity one
thank you@@voluntarism335
from what ive heard playstations can only utilize about 5000-6000ish mbs per second due to the hardware. sony really trying to rope em in hard with this
gonna wait for November to buy some 990 Pros on amazon to upgrade all the drives on desktop/laptop
What was the cartoon looking game? Looked fun
Perfect timing was just wanting to upgrade my pcie 3 for a pcie 5 but the price is crazy
Gen 4, Samsung 990 pro or Solidigm P44 Pro SSD, are the fastest, and Seagate FireCuda range for life/productivity/speed combo.
@@GingerRuss75 thanks 🙏
The highest the 990 pro goes is 2tb. Had a seagate firecuda nothing but issues with it. I'll stick with the 4tb WD Sn850x for now.@@GingerRuss75
I doubt in real world use that you will notice any difference. It is almost impossible to notice any difference between a SATA SSD and a good pcie Gen 4 drive. The thing that is very real is the extra heat from the fast drives and possible thermal throttling if the drive is worked hard.
@@geoffreyveale7715 I haven’t had any problems and the speed hasn’t bothered me at all! I timed the start up and it took 59.10 seconds to boot up which isn’t bad not sure how fast other peoples are tho 😂
Hi I'm new to the pc gaming side I got this pc Acer Predator Orion 3000 PO3-630 Gaming PC - (Intel Core i7-11700F, 16GB, 1TB HDD and 512GB SSD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 been playing Forza Horizon 4 an 5 an the New Forza Motorsport ACC and F1. They seem to be a bit slow in loading plan to us my VR headset on it too what should I upgrade and what to any help would be very much appreciated ??
I mainly do racing and a little VR at the moment will do more of.
some MB (MSI PRO X670-P) comes with PCI gen5 close to the CPU, I wish the water cooling comes with combo for both in future designs, that would be nice, maybe a 4TB gen5 water cooling CPU+Gen5 M.2.
but we'll see, ..
Still 1TB Gen3 SSD Systempartition and 2TB Gen3 SSD Storage running and perfectly happy, and i am pretty sure that i wouldn´t notice anything speedwise with newer Gen SSDs. Maybe in direct comparison side by side but that is a stupid reason paying 300-400€ more for a very small upgrade
Shocking truths?
1. Unless your constantly moving large files. You'll never notice. Even sata ssd's are fast.
2. Even ddr3 is fast.
3. A 3090 ti can't saturate pcie gen 2x16. Let alone gen 3, 4 or 5.
4. Most of what we make our purchase decisions on, especially for tech, is 99% marketing garbage.
5. And the list could go on for days.....
If I move my Gen 5 nvme onto my Dimm.2 card and downgrade it back to pcie4 can my 4090 gain back PCIEX4x16? I will admit I was duped and bought a gen 5 ssd for my new Apex Encore build. I currently have two gen 4 drives in slots 2 and 3 and I have a gen 5 drive in the first slot beneath the CPU and my 4090 is operating at pci 4x8 instead of 4x16. I can't return my gen 5 drive anymore so could I insert in the dimm.2 card and run it slower but gain back GPU bandwidth?
Current motherboards can't do both GPUs and m.2s at gen 5 speeds. So yes, go ahead and downgrade the m.2 and you'll get all your lanes back on the gpu
Yeah that is what I ended up doing and gained back the the PCI bandwidth for my 4090. On the games I was playing there was a massive difference.@@cooldaddyslick6869
Why no gen 3 NVME only SATA
Will running a PCIe 4.0 in the 5.0 slot slow or bottleneck my gameplay or load speeds?
Nope, unless it's a 2x slot (incredibly unlikely )
probably end of next year when we might have 3trd wave of gen5 they might worth a buy with better features, ..
When we ll gen 6 u ll need to decide putting 4 slot video card, or putting triple fan nvme with a tower cooler :D
My ASRock B550M Pro-SE motherboard has two M2 2280 sockets, (1) Gen4 x4 & (1) Gen3 x4. I opted for the "ultra-fast" 1TB Lexar NM790 NVMe M2 in the Gen4 socket (primary) and an "economical" 2TB Team Group MP33 NVMe M2 in the Gen3 socket (secondary). Windows 11 and all of my startup applications load instantaneously upon entering my pin and I'm fairly certain it's also made a decisive contribution to the amazing speed with which complex image editing/manipulation operations take place on my new build. To be honest, I can't yet vouch for the 2TB Gen3 M2 secondary drive, as I've yet to put it to actual use. But, "after watching this video" I feel even better about it than I already did.
Great video. I'm curious about the speeds that games install and/or update. Is there a significant improvement in these speeds between generations?
i'm still going to stick with gen 3 ssd at max.
although i would like to have bigger capacity at gen 3 at min.... Sata kinda screwy pricing in my country when you go on same capacity.
Test games that are notorious for long loading time like city skylines
Great video. I had been considering upgrading my Sn850, but I guess I’ll save the money!
I definitely want 10GB Switch for my 50Mbps Internet.
FIRST!
REALLY??? HOW?!
got me😭
cheater
thats cheating
RIGGED
The only game I've found SSD speeds making a difference is Starfield, (atleast at launch) I have 2 NVME drives in my PC, with it being restricted to gen 2 and other at gen 3 speeds as I was on AM4 450 chipset, and running the game on gen 2 speeds led to constant stutters, moving it to gen 3 improved things dramatically, I ended up upgrading my PC just to get Gen 4 and Gen 5.
Be interesting to know how it would run off a larger enterprise Optane drive like a P4800X. Lower latency might help.
Gen 2 x1 PCIE speeds (~500MB/s) should be _comparable_ to SATA III (~600MB/s), and most NVME drives are running minimum x2 (usually x4), giving them a distict advantage. Even so, there's currently a negligible difference in games when comparing SSDs be it SATA or NVME.
I'd check the specs of the drive and the motherboard. The jump seen from "Gen 2" to "Gen 3" was likely just an increase in the quality of chosen components rather than the standards referenced.
@@redslate I was using a PCIE2x4 slot and the Crystalmark was giving me over 1500MB speeds.
This was a issue with Starfield on launch, it was hitting SSD's hard, even people with higher end NVMe's were getting issues, it was later patched, I've since upgraded to the AM4 platform, so my NVMe drive now uses it's full advertised speeds, and no longer have the same issues, (not sure if this is due to Bethesda's patch or the system upgrade though.)
@@haroonmohammed742 Ah, okay. The wording had me thrown. That makes more sense.
Thanks!
Thanks indeed!
why would i want an ssd that has heatsinks and fans? PCs are supposed to be electronics, not airplane engines
I have a small fast SSD that is fully dedicated to Primo Cache and big slower HD's. I only experience slow loading times the first time I start a program/game or after a longer time of not using the program/game. The same with rendering programs I use. Most of the times programs are cached by the SSD and I don't had to pay the high prices for a big SSD and the cache hit ratio in my case is over 90%. For the 30$ Primo Cache lifetime license costs I can't buy a big fast SSD of the same size my HD's are.
How do you like PrimoCache overall? I've been eyeing it...getting ready to build a new rig w/128GB RAM + will definitely at least try Primo.....
@@drjones762 I like it - there are standard methods of caching available you can use and you can always make your own strategy. Write only, read only, R/W cache, delayed writing etc. you can exclude drives from caching and you can have more than one strategy. My system drive is PCIE gen 4 and I see no sense in caching it, but I moved my profile folder and the temporary directories to other drives that are cached.
Thanks for the vid, I'm looking for something to help the load times in TW Warhammer 3.
Hi, Can I just ask what pc you have - it looks super sweet....
Cheers
Dal
So i did a good choise getting a samsung 970 evo plus 1tb
So far i didnt play anything that i have transfered on it, but so far most kf my games have been on a samsung 870 evo sata....and everything was ok at speeds. Like no problem loading even cyberpunk or red dead 2 in a few seconds.
So i don't expect big changes.
Anyway, that probably is the diminishing returns in ssd's.
With nvme 1tb, u can make a insane big n fast usb 3 stick... About 500mb.sec ez...and speeds go more up
Im an idiot. First I thought that the time was mm:ss so in the Alan Wake 2 test I screamed when seeing 1 hour load then I saw the "1 minute"
I’m going to using a Z690 motherboard that’s a gen3 m.2 nvme .
I already have a gen5 m.2 nvme so it’s backwards compatible?
Yes
thanks a lot, I was going for a gen 5 so I will save 100$ to invest it in other pc part and go with a good gen 4
Thank you for your comparison.
I Bought a SATA SSD two days from now, and i see the differences with my old HDD, but based on what iv'e seen on the video, i prefer SATA over PciE drives because the lower temps and the very small difference in loading times
The jump from HDD to SSD was like the jump from dial up to broadband or VHS to DVD. Since then it's mostly been incremental improvements. I was really disappointed when I moved from 500MBps SSD to 3000MBps NVMe. The leap in performance was not really felt. Law of diminishing returns...as with so much PC tech now.
Why is the p3 plus in the thumbnail
The Patriot doesn't have a box
@@PcCentricoh lmao
Went from gen 3 3500 mbs to a gen 4 990 pro and for my games and my system yes I can tell big difference 😊