This guy really did nail it in the first seconds of his speech when he raised his hand saying he didnt know what non-duality was, Then spent 25 mins trying to make a case for there being 2. I like this guy.
this is the field I have invested with much dedication into : the nature,the function ,the mechanics and the numerous processes of sensation ,perception ,references,memories,concepts formation,tabulating,monitoring,all those sensorial datas, to finally come to a personal interpretation and realise that the world out there is my .... matter,energy,space and time are playing with our so called person or human entity to make us imagine and believe what may not be the True reality !! the only thing I am sure is that I am conscious of I AM .......OM
AN EXCELLENT TALK AS USUAL DONE BY PETER...SIMPLIFYING A SEEMINGLY COMPLEX VIEWPOINT OF AN ILLUSORY REALITY MADE OF NAME & FORM...THANKS FOR POSTING...I A(namarupa)M !!!
The late Dr. David R Hawkins has contributed much to this subject of subjective awareness and different levels or qualities of consciousness in a very useful way. I highly recommend his books especially power vs force.
Saying we are aware necessarily implies that we are aware of something. The (reality of the) object of awareness is therefore implied; as if awareness were a distinct process or experience involving a real subject and a real object. Even though such a representation is obviously correct apparently, it tends to imply that the subject and the object, as well as the experience of being aware, should have intrinsic essences respectively. And here's the issue, since all phenomena are devoid of inherent essence. Now, the trickiest part is that even the fact of understanding the latter or trying to make sense of it is also empty (i.e. devoid of inherent essence)! Unless the implications of the above are fully assimilated on a deep psychological level, no intellectualization will be satisfactory. And this is why most seekers of "enlightenment" keep looking and longing for "more"-which is fine being almost inevitable at early stages. To become enlightened, you must first psychologically realize that all phenomena are devoid of inherent essence. It will take some time... You will then think, act and behave spontaneously, having acquired the "right seeing". It's literally the end of the journey. Back to the market. Back to "normal". “Before I sought enlightenment, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers. While I sought enlightenment, the mountains were not mountains and the rivers were not rivers. After I reached satori, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers.”
I don't think consciousness is primary. I think the capacity for consciousness is. We can exist in a state of unconsciousness. But even then, we always retain our capacity for consciousness. You could call this capacity for consciousness "being." Being is primary. Being includes consciousness and unconsciousness, and "matter" is only consciousness.
When we say we are conscious, we are meaning we are aware of something. We are conscious of experience, any possible experience. Without an experience, we are not. No special experience is continuous but we are always experiencing. We experience ourself. Experience is made up out of fundamental relationships which are combined and manifest themselves. The universe is in itself self-consistent and rational. Everything is the way it is because there is no other possibility left out. Mind and consciousness, subject and object are different sides of the same. Experience is always subjective. There is no objective experience. The brain with input is only another representation of reality as awareness of (at least one relationship, one relation, one property). And since experience is put together and comprehended in mind, relations are accumulated and lead to thoughts and finally knowledge.
Zak Matew Everything you see around you is a reflection of your mind. Did you ever wonder why you recognize objects in your surroundings without thinking about them again and again? So, what is consciousness for you? What kind of entity is it? All we experience ( of any kind), even experience of thoughts, are reflections of mind and make us what we are. There is no place in the brain where consciousness exists as some sort of substance, the activities of the brain are (in connection with the experienced outside world) only another representation of consciousness. Consciousness is not the element of experience itself, it is why there is experience overall. There is no separation between subject and object. The separation is a great delusion.
nadjim73 Consciousness must be "something", an object or entity, which is capable of reflecting, similarly to a mirror, objects and ideas. The consciousness itself is not those objects nor it is the ideas, it is simply a reflector, which closes to loop between the object (or idea) and itself. I believe that this very "reflection" is awareness.
Consciousness as fundamental to whatever makes up material reality,? Wasn't David Bohm saying this (or something very like it) back in the 1960s? He also went quite deeply into the relationship between elementary particles and information.
Any tentative definition of "consciousness" is necessarily circular. Arguing that such a thing as consciousness could be primal or fundamental is therefore necessarily tautological in nature and a complete heresy philosophically speaking.
Is consciousness like air? So then life is born in to consciousness that was already ‘here’? Or is consciousness simply synergy? .. then the question just becomes how can things become ‘greater’ than the sum of the ‘parts’!
Consciousness is all that there is. Drashta Drisya divisions are Consciousness misinterpreting itself in a mind posture. And the mind is Consciousness in a pretentious posture. There's nothing that Consciousness is not.
Confusion between consciousness and awareness? Awareness is PRIOR TO consciousness. The former is the Father and the latter the Son! The Son is the Father but the Father is NOT the Son. Advaita, "Not two", can be ONE or ZERO. Between them is where the truth is/resides.
All interpretation and speculation. The thinking mechanism is so clever! You as you know yourself are conscious through the knowledge that has been put in you. In the absence of that knowledge you'd have no way of being conscious of anything and thus there'd be no you. Each and everyone of us is aware? This is built on the assumption that there is something there, a "self", an "I', a "soul', a "psyche", whatever. It's all bullshit rooted in a weird complex thought structure. I even question that as most of our thoughts are about thought and not actual thought. We don't "know" anything at all. We just "think" we do and that is the issue. Thought is like a machine only interested in its own continuity and it has divided and created so-called individuals in order to secure its continuity. What the hell is all this talk about experience? You have no way of having a direct experience of anything at all. It's the knowledge that is there that makes it possible to experience anything and so we actually are experiencing what we think we know about what we are looking at.
+Ferdinand Alexander Sure, it's the old "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" ... of course, we need another hand to clap, a mirror to see our face, a lens to see the objects - all this requires two and all this distorts reality in some sense. And the brain is another "filter" or "reflector" so I am with you that any experience, however profound, is mediated, not direct. A. Watts would say we are the universe experiencing itself - but in what sense? I am afraid we need more sober view on the non-duality as it is too easy to slip into mumbo jumbo about souls, universal mind etc. How can be there any awareness if there is no brain to mediate the awareness experience?
+Libor Tinka At some point it seems apparent man separated himself from the life around him. In that instant, the “self” is born. If the organism is sitting there looking it doesn’t know what it is looking at, it doesn’t label and interpret everything. There may be a stimulus response occurring but it is a unity movement. Thought creates the space and time and then links the events together to make it look like a cause and event scenario. Thought and thinking is really the issue. There is an extraordinary intelligence underneath all this thinking, labeling, interpreting, etc.,. Thought being divisive in its nature separates you as you know yourself from the life around you. As a result of this illusory separation man is always seeking ways to get back into oneness with nature but through the use of thought this can never be done. Thought and thinking has provided a lot but it’s only interested in its own continuity and the status quo. Thought can never come into contact with life. We know nothing about life. We are wrestling all the time with living. For example, for centuries we have been preaching love thy neighbor, trying every way possible to deal with stealing, lust, anger, etc. Have these approaches rooted in thinking touched anything there? Not a thing. They’ve done the opposite. How many millions have been killed in the name of love thy neighbor? There’s no sense speculating, even when it comes to the brain. We don’t even know what we are looking at. We are the ones who label them, define them, etc. I’m not suggesting you can do anything else. What is a dog for example? So many times I’ve heard people say it’s only a dog. Is it? We are the ones who labeled it, defined it, etc. We have labels on something called a cheetah but we know they’ve been walking this earth long before the word “cheetah”. What are they then? We don’t know. At this point we are all parrots, computers. I don’t have one thought I can call my own. I don’t use one word I can call my own. I don’t have one experience I can call my own. I don’t have one feeling I can call my own. Where then is the individual there? There are words, knowledge. Even what I know about a “self”, about the universe, these are all products of the world mind which is the entire accumulation of all of man’s thoughts, feelings and experiences passed down through the ages. The issue is thought and an out of control thinking mechanism that is otherwise known as society or culture if you will. We are created by that mechanism for the sole purpose of the continuity of that mechanism and for no other reason. It’s a self perpetuating mechanism but not as a self more like a machine. There’s no sense in speculating about non-duality. Of course, you’re free to do so. This is yet another clever trick of the thinking mechanism. In order to assure its continuity it came up with things like immortality, life after death, religion, self, psyche, soul, use whatever word works for you, all this is like the dog chasing its tail and this simply guarantees the continuity of thought. It’s popular today for people in certain circles to talk about the now, thepresent moment, and all this nonsense. Speaking from the paradigm we apparently live in we can only speak from the past. In essence we are living a continuity of the past. One cannot speak of the now or the present without using the past. We are using the past, memory, in a futile attempt to understand life. All this is driven by a desire to get back, to make a connection, to fill a void that people often express is there even though they have everything they could reasonably ask for. In reality, they never separated but just “think” they have. To speak about non-duality is silly as once you begin speaking you are no longer speaking about non-duality. It's all theory, speculation and interpretation. In reality, no ever communicates with anyone. All we can do is interpret and translate through the thought structure that is there. You use the knowledge you have to interpret and put things into your preexisting structure the best you can.
Ferdinand Alexander I agree it is not possible to describe non-duality in terms of language (just like trying to explain complex numbers within the framework of real numbers). Even the term non-duality is misleading as non-duality is not the opposite of duality, heck, "it" is not IT at all - something we cant point at or think about. I however find entertaining to think about "it" or "non-it" but the main tools of discovery here are not thinking or language, but rather tantric practice and plant medicine. Nothing (e.g. cheetah) can be fully described without also describing its environment and ultimately the whole universe. But is it really true? Maybe certain "degree of oneness" is sufficient and we don't have to include entire space. Because yes, there may be a connection between butterfly wings moving and thunderstorm on the opposite side of the planet, but this connection has no meaning, no statistical importance. So far I agree we are connected to the environment, but making a leap to the entire universe seems quite premature and too enthusiastic. The question I ask to myself is: To what extent are we connected with one? We know some galaxies are so far away that no information can ever be transmitted between them, even speed of light won't do. Maybe out theories are lacking something - but so far it seems the oneness and interconnectedness of everything in the universe is not that simple. Maybe the ultimate "oneness ocean" is just a totally random quantum noise giving rise to new worlds and dissolving old ones, being totally random - no consciousness there, just randomness or background noise. Then yes, there is an underlying theoretical unity (quantum field), but it makes no sense or meaning, being just a random number generator being inherent to all existence.
Libor Tinka You can describe non-duality in terms of language if you want to but it’s as valid as any other description of anything else. The moment there is separation there is a “you” and that which you are looking at, even feelings are thoughts. You have a sensation and then interpret it through the use of thought. You can’t even separate this “you” from thought. The environment, the universe, what’s the difference? We labeled these things we interpret them through the thinking mechanism. It is our demand to know that creates the conflict, much like our demand for peace creates war within and without. Nature for lack of a better word is not trying to learn anything, not trying to change anything. Humans through the use of thought are only concerned with becoming something other than what they are. I can only speculate but even wild animals have thought but they don’t try to do anything with it. It serves in the survival of the organism. You’re asking a question under the assumption that there is someone there to ask. Can you know anything about life by first separating from it? Where is life absent? Or is that how we have defined life. For example, when someone dies we say they are dead, they are clinically dead. Of course, they are dead just in definition. There are so many life forms that will spawn off that corpse. Life is very much there. Life is all, not necessarily one. One is numerical. That’s the issue, once we begin to use language and attempt to touch life we fail, our attempts are destroyed by the quality of life. The question you ask yourself regarding are we connected is the thought mechanism going off on a dog chasing its tail scenario. I’m not trying to win you over to a viewpoint. I’m just expressing what is there. At the end of the day all concepts and interpretations are a bit off. We can only interpret and translate through the database that is there. That database includes all the thoughts, feelings and experiences of mankind and perhaps even some things passed down genetically. All these words end up in a mess of semantics. Galaxies, universes, oneness, are all labels generated and rooted in thought in order to perpetrate thought. The tool you have at hand to “figure it out” is the same tool that created the dilemma. All people end up doing is sharpening the very instrument that keeps them trapped in a world of ideas and concepts. In terms of non-duality all I can say is that the absence of two doesn’t necessarily leave one. If there ever was an enlightened person you’d never no and neither would that person. Being totally immersed in life that is all there is there’d be no way to say, “I’m an enlightened man”, no way to know of “otherness”. Tantric practice and plant medicine are just more of the same comforters that have been provided in the past. If you enjoy that then by all means do what you will. You may have some petty experiences or what you interpret to be extraordinary experiences but experience in its very nature is division and you end up interpreting and translating them through the use of thought. Perhaps you’re into science. Even scientist change their theories every four years or so. It’s all the same crap, including everything I have posted here.
Ferdinand Alexander I agree this all is like chasing our own tail. But can we do otherwise? The life in broadest definition is everywhere - the planet Earth itself, once being a lifeless rock bears life like a fruit tree. However, committing suicide in that sense or simply doing nothing would still mean being fully immersed in life - either way we already are immersed in it and it cannot do otherwise. We can only be more or less aware of it. I believe you can use every tool, be it science, plants or meditation practice to "raise consciousness" but I also believe we will never be able to catch the tail and we cannot in principle. I have read the point of enlightenment is to truly understand this fact.
Frank Christopher Why do you follow a fake God's rules? These rules don't come from nowhere, even though you'd like to believe that. Following rules from a fake God, now THAT doesn't make sense. Do fake God's always FORCE you to exist like you are right now? You only know what you like, you DON'T know why you like it. Unless you'd like to lie and act like you do? God is everything, including evil, including you. Everything is God and all do It's will. TAKE A LOOK AROUND YOU. EVERYTHING YOU SEE INCLUDING REALITY ITSELF IS GOD. SEE EVERYTHING HAPPENING WITHIN THIS REALITY, IT'S ALL FOLLOWING THE WILL OF IT'S CREATOR. hope that's simple enough for ya?
Sounds like Mumbo Jumbo to me. Non duality is a new religion based on older concepts from different religions, like Atman of eastern beliefs, animism etc. Reality is that humans need religion, to put in one bag everything that our mental capacities can not grasp, so now that Christianism, Socialism and other traditional beliefs are not kosher anymore, we try to find a new religion.
Evidently, he went to Cambridge. "At Cambridge University (UK), he *studied mathematics and theoretical physics.* Then, as he became increasingly fascinated by the mysteries of the human mind he changed to experimental psychology. Pursuing this interest, he traveled to India to study meditation and eastern philosophy, and on his return took up the first research post ever offered in Britain on the psychology of meditation. He also *has a post-graduate degree in computer science*, and conducted some of the early work on 3-dimensional displays, presaging by some twenty years the advent of virtual reality."
This is what makes AI research so interesting. Under the current paradigm, you believe you can create conscious AI even though your paradigm says you can’t. Under the Peter Russell paradigm, you believe you can’t create AI even though your paradigm says you can.
this is the field I have invested with much dedication into : the nature,the function ,the mechanics and the numerous processes of sensation ,perception ,references,memories,concepts formation,tabulating,monitoring,all those sensorial datas, to finally come to a personal interpretation and realise that the world out there is my .... matter,energy,space and time are playing with our so called person or human entity to make us imagine and believe what may not be the True reality !! the only thing I am sure is that I am conscious of I AM .......OM
I enjoyed two things here: The content of the speech and the excellent way of conveying it. Thank you very much.
This guy really did nail it in the first seconds of his speech when he raised his hand saying he didnt know what non-duality was, Then spent 25 mins trying to make a case for there being 2. I like this guy.
this is the field I have invested with much dedication into : the nature,the function ,the mechanics and the numerous processes of sensation ,perception ,references,memories,concepts formation,tabulating,monitoring,all those sensorial datas, to finally come to a personal interpretation and realise that the world out there is my ....
matter,energy,space and time are playing with our so called person or human entity to make us imagine and believe what may not be the True reality !! the only thing I am sure is that I am conscious of I AM .......OM
AN EXCELLENT TALK AS USUAL DONE BY PETER...SIMPLIFYING A SEEMINGLY COMPLEX VIEWPOINT OF AN ILLUSORY REALITY MADE OF NAME & FORM...THANKS FOR POSTING...I A(namarupa)M !!!
The late Dr. David R Hawkins has contributed much to this subject of subjective awareness and different levels or qualities of consciousness in a very useful way. I highly recommend his books especially power vs force.
HatTube
Okay, thanks. I’ll check him out.
Great combination of two approaches (scientific western and spiritual eastern). This is the way that will lead us to truth...
We are not conscious. We don't have consciousness. We ARE consciousness. Advaita
Bull! Nonsense!!!
Excellent speech, a complex concept explained in a simple way.
Hello to all other aspects of consciousness experiencing this!
Saying we are aware necessarily implies that we are aware of something. The (reality of the) object of awareness is therefore implied; as if awareness were a distinct process or experience involving a real subject and a real object. Even though such a representation is obviously correct apparently, it tends to imply that the subject and the object, as well as the experience of being aware, should have intrinsic essences respectively. And here's the issue, since all phenomena are devoid of inherent essence. Now, the trickiest part is that even the fact of understanding the latter or trying to make sense of it is also empty (i.e. devoid of inherent essence)!
Unless the implications of the above are fully assimilated on a deep psychological level, no intellectualization will be satisfactory. And this is why most seekers of "enlightenment" keep looking and longing for "more"-which is fine being almost inevitable at early stages.
To become enlightened, you must first psychologically realize that all phenomena are devoid of inherent essence. It will take some time... You will then think, act and behave spontaneously, having acquired the "right seeing". It's literally the end of the journey. Back to the market. Back to "normal". “Before I sought enlightenment, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers. While I sought enlightenment, the mountains were not mountains and the rivers were not rivers. After I reached satori, the mountains were mountains and the rivers were rivers.”
A wonderful embrace of mystery
Enjoyed this talk......
Yes, my dual consciousness is always taking place. That is the primacy of my consciousness.
i haven't passed the first paradigm shift yet, i still believe the earth is the center of the universe.
Consciousness was there first and because of that, matter was created.
There was no matter first and then consciousness was borne.
I don't think consciousness is primary. I think the capacity for consciousness is. We can exist in a state of unconsciousness. But even then, we always retain our capacity for consciousness. You could call this capacity for consciousness "being." Being is primary. Being includes consciousness and unconsciousness, and "matter" is only consciousness.
When we say we are conscious, we are meaning we are aware of something. We are conscious of experience, any possible experience. Without an experience, we are not. No special experience is continuous but we are always experiencing. We experience ourself. Experience is made up out of fundamental relationships which are combined and manifest themselves.
The universe is in itself self-consistent and rational. Everything is the way it is because there is no other possibility left out.
Mind and consciousness, subject and object are different sides of the same.
Experience is always subjective. There is no objective experience. The brain with input is only another representation of reality as awareness of (at least one relationship, one relation, one property).
And since experience is put together and comprehended in mind, relations are accumulated and lead to thoughts and finally knowledge.
3877michael Yes,i am
+nadjim73 Consciousness is an entity that reflects experience but is not the same as experience.
Zak Matew Everything you see around you is a reflection of your mind. Did you ever wonder why you recognize objects in your surroundings without thinking about them again and again?
So, what is consciousness for you? What kind of entity is it? All we experience ( of any kind), even experience of thoughts, are reflections of mind and make us what we are.
There is no place in the brain where consciousness exists as some sort of substance, the activities of the brain are (in connection with the experienced outside world) only another representation of consciousness.
Consciousness is not the element of experience itself, it is why there is experience overall.
There is no separation between subject and object. The separation is a great delusion.
nadjim73 Consciousness must be "something", an object or entity, which is capable of reflecting, similarly to a mirror, objects and ideas. The consciousness itself is not those objects nor it is the ideas, it is simply a reflector, which closes to loop between the object (or idea) and itself. I believe that this very "reflection" is awareness.
Zak Matew So, what is this reflection truly or what reflects? What causes that reflection? I wanna help you to get a free mind.
Excellent ..I wonder why he didnot use the term Reflected Consciousness.
Consciousness as fundamental to whatever makes up material reality,? Wasn't David Bohm saying this (or something very like it) back in the 1960s? He also went quite deeply into the relationship between elementary particles and information.
Beautifully succinct.
Any tentative definition of "consciousness" is necessarily circular. Arguing that such a thing as consciousness could be primal or fundamental is therefore necessarily tautological in nature and a complete heresy philosophically speaking.
Is consciousness like air? So then life is born in to consciousness that was already ‘here’? Or is consciousness simply synergy? .. then the question just becomes how can things become ‘greater’ than the sum of the ‘parts’!
♡ ♡ ♡ nowhere to get to ⊙
to me the smarter person I've ever heard speak
Hello. The postulate in wrong, eveng consciousness is created, so it's not the brain that creates consciousness.
Is there a universal mind?
Yeah, the same mind expresses itself in all..
THANKS!!
But if you go beyond counciousness...
Consciousness is all that there is. Drashta Drisya divisions are Consciousness misinterpreting itself in a mind posture. And the mind is Consciousness in a pretentious posture. There's nothing that Consciousness is not.
(the smartest, I mean)
Confusion between consciousness and awareness? Awareness is PRIOR TO consciousness. The former is the Father and the latter the Son! The Son is the Father but the Father is NOT the Son.
Advaita, "Not two", can be ONE or ZERO. Between them is where the truth is/resides.
All interpretation and speculation. The thinking mechanism is so clever! You as you know yourself are conscious through the knowledge that has been put in you. In the absence of that knowledge you'd have no way of being conscious of anything and thus there'd be no you. Each and everyone of us is aware? This is built on the assumption that there is something there, a "self", an "I', a "soul', a "psyche", whatever. It's all bullshit rooted in a weird complex thought structure. I even question that as most of our thoughts are about thought and not actual thought. We don't "know" anything at all. We just "think" we do and that is the issue. Thought is like a machine only interested in its own continuity and it has divided and created so-called individuals in order to secure its continuity. What the hell is all this talk about experience? You have no way of having a direct experience of anything at all. It's the knowledge that is there that makes it possible to experience anything and so we actually are experiencing what we think we know about what we are looking at.
+Ferdinand Alexander Sure, it's the old "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" ... of course, we need another hand to clap, a mirror to see our face, a lens to see the objects - all this requires two and all this distorts reality in some sense. And the brain is another "filter" or "reflector" so I am with you that any experience, however profound, is mediated, not direct. A. Watts would say we are the universe experiencing itself - but in what sense?
I am afraid we need more sober view on the non-duality as it is too easy to slip into mumbo jumbo about souls, universal mind etc. How can be there any awareness if there is no brain to mediate the awareness experience?
+Libor Tinka At some point it seems apparent man separated himself from the life around him. In that instant, the “self” is born. If the organism is sitting there looking it doesn’t know what it is looking at, it doesn’t label and interpret everything. There may be a stimulus response occurring but it is a unity movement. Thought creates the space and time and then links the events together to make it look like a cause and event scenario. Thought and thinking is really the issue. There is an extraordinary intelligence underneath all this thinking, labeling, interpreting, etc.,. Thought being divisive in its nature separates you as you know yourself from the life around you. As a result of this illusory separation man is always seeking ways to get back into oneness with nature but through the use of thought this can never be done. Thought and thinking has provided a lot but it’s only interested in its own continuity and the status quo. Thought can never come into contact with life. We know nothing about life. We are wrestling all the time with living. For example, for centuries we have been preaching love thy neighbor, trying every way possible to deal with stealing, lust, anger, etc. Have these approaches rooted in thinking touched anything there? Not a thing. They’ve done the opposite. How many millions have been killed in the name of love thy neighbor? There’s no sense speculating, even when it comes to the brain. We don’t even know what we are looking at. We are the ones who label them, define them, etc. I’m not suggesting you can do anything else. What
is a dog for example? So many times I’ve heard people say it’s only a dog. Is it? We are the ones who labeled it, defined it, etc. We have labels on something called a cheetah but we know they’ve been walking this earth long before the word “cheetah”. What are they then? We don’t know. At this point we are all parrots, computers. I don’t have one thought I can call my own. I don’t use one word I can call my own. I don’t have one experience I can call my own. I don’t have one feeling I can call my own. Where then is the individual there? There are words, knowledge. Even what I know about a “self”, about the universe, these are all products of the world mind which is the entire accumulation of all of man’s thoughts, feelings and experiences passed down through the ages. The issue is thought and an out of control thinking mechanism that is otherwise known as society or culture if you will. We are created by that mechanism for the sole purpose of the continuity of that mechanism and for no other reason. It’s a self perpetuating mechanism but not as a self more like a machine. There’s no sense in speculating about non-duality. Of course, you’re free to do so. This is yet another clever trick of the thinking mechanism. In order to assure its continuity it came up with things like immortality, life after death, religion, self, psyche, soul, use whatever word works for you, all this is like the dog chasing its tail and this simply guarantees the continuity of thought. It’s popular today for people in certain circles to talk about the now, thepresent moment, and all this nonsense. Speaking from the paradigm we apparently live in we can only speak from the past. In essence we are living a continuity of the past. One cannot speak of the now or the present without using the past. We are using the past, memory, in a futile attempt to understand life. All this is driven by a desire to get back, to make a connection, to fill a void that people often express is there even though they have everything they could reasonably ask for. In reality, they never separated but just “think” they have. To speak about non-duality is silly as once you begin speaking you are no longer speaking about non-duality. It's all theory, speculation and interpretation. In reality, no ever communicates with anyone. All we can do is interpret and translate through the thought structure that is there. You use the knowledge you have to interpret and put things into your preexisting structure the best you can.
Ferdinand Alexander
I agree it is not possible to describe non-duality in terms of language (just like trying to explain complex numbers within the framework of real numbers). Even the term non-duality is misleading as non-duality is not the opposite of duality, heck, "it" is not IT at all - something we cant point at or think about.
I however find entertaining to think about "it" or "non-it" but the main tools of discovery here are not thinking or language, but rather tantric practice and plant medicine.
Nothing (e.g. cheetah) can be fully described without also describing its environment and ultimately the whole universe. But is it really true? Maybe certain "degree of oneness" is sufficient and we don't have to include entire space. Because yes, there may be a connection between butterfly wings moving and thunderstorm on the opposite side of the planet, but this connection has no meaning, no statistical importance.
So far I agree we are connected to the environment, but making a leap to the entire universe seems quite premature and too enthusiastic.
The question I ask to myself is: To what extent are we connected with one? We know some galaxies are so far away that no information can ever be transmitted between them, even speed of light won't do. Maybe out theories are lacking something - but so far it seems the oneness and interconnectedness of everything in the universe is not that simple. Maybe the ultimate "oneness ocean" is just a totally random quantum noise giving rise to new worlds and dissolving old ones, being totally random - no consciousness there, just randomness or background noise. Then yes, there is an underlying theoretical unity (quantum field), but it makes no sense or meaning, being just a random number generator being inherent to all existence.
Libor Tinka You can describe non-duality in terms of language if you want to but it’s as
valid as any other description of anything else. The moment there is separation there is a “you” and that which you are looking at, even feelings are thoughts. You have a sensation and then interpret it through the use of thought. You can’t even separate this “you” from thought. The environment, the universe,
what’s the difference? We labeled these things we interpret them through the thinking mechanism. It is our demand to know that creates the conflict, much like our demand for peace creates war within and without. Nature for lack of a better word is not trying to learn anything, not trying to change anything. Humans through the use of thought are only concerned with becoming something other than what they are. I can only speculate but
even wild animals have thought but they don’t try to do anything with it. It serves in the survival of the organism. You’re asking a question under the assumption that there is someone there to ask. Can you know anything
about life by first separating from it? Where is life absent? Or is that how we have defined life. For example, when someone dies we say they are dead, they are clinically dead. Of course, they are dead just in definition.
There are so many life forms that will spawn off that corpse. Life is very much there. Life is all, not necessarily one. One is numerical. That’s the issue, once we begin to use language and attempt to touch life we fail,
our attempts are destroyed by the quality of life. The question you ask yourself regarding are we connected is the thought mechanism going off on a dog chasing its tail scenario. I’m not trying to win you over to a viewpoint. I’m just expressing what is there. At the end of the day all concepts and interpretations are a bit off. We can only interpret and translate through the database that is there. That database includes all the thoughts, feelings and experiences of mankind and perhaps
even some things passed down genetically. All these words end up in a mess of semantics. Galaxies, universes, oneness, are all labels
generated and rooted in thought in order to perpetrate thought. The tool you have at hand to “figure it out” is the same tool that created
the dilemma. All people end up doing is sharpening the very instrument that keeps them trapped in a world of ideas and concepts. In terms of non-duality all I can say is that the absence of two doesn’t necessarily
leave one. If there ever was an enlightened person you’d never no and neither would that person. Being totally immersed in life that is all there is there’d be no way to say, “I’m an enlightened man”, no way to know of “otherness”. Tantric practice and plant medicine are just more of the same comforters that have been provided in the past. If you enjoy that then by all means do what you will. You may have some petty
experiences or what you interpret to be extraordinary experiences but experience in its very nature is division and you end up interpreting and translating them through the use of thought. Perhaps you’re into science. Even scientist change their theories every four years or so. It’s all the same crap, including everything I have posted here.
Ferdinand Alexander
I agree this all is like chasing our own tail. But can we do otherwise? The life in broadest definition is everywhere - the planet Earth itself, once being a lifeless rock bears life like a fruit tree. However, committing suicide in that sense or simply doing nothing would still mean being fully immersed in life - either way we already are immersed in it and it cannot do otherwise. We can only be more or less aware of it. I believe you can use every tool, be it science, plants or meditation practice to "raise consciousness" but I also believe we will never be able to catch the tail and we cannot in principle. I have read the point of enlightenment is to truly understand this fact.
Consciousness is the will of God in manifestation.
Frank Christopher You're God.
exactly that !
exactly that : you said consciousness is the will of GOD in manifestation . we are ONE . Adonai ehad !! in Arabian ehad means ONE and in French UN !
Frank Christopher Everything is God and all do It's will.
Frank Christopher Why do you follow a fake God's rules? These rules don't come from nowhere, even though you'd like to believe that. Following rules from a fake God, now THAT doesn't make sense. Do fake God's always FORCE you to exist like you are right now?
You only know what you like, you DON'T know why you like it. Unless you'd like to lie and act like you do? God is everything, including evil, including you.
Everything is God and all do It's will. TAKE A LOOK AROUND YOU. EVERYTHING YOU SEE INCLUDING REALITY ITSELF IS GOD.
SEE EVERYTHING HAPPENING WITHIN THIS REALITY, IT'S ALL FOLLOWING THE WILL OF IT'S CREATOR.
hope that's simple enough for ya?
Maybe we are all just biological robots and thinking there is inner experience is just part of the programming :)
I still don't see how a computer program which only flips bits can have the capacity to hold a unified conscious experience.
I can tell your white from this comment
Conciousness is the key!
ALL LIFE HAS DNA.
non dualism is
'IF A TREE FALLSIN THE FOREST DOES IT MAKE A SOUND? NO, BUT THE ANTS MIGHT HERE THE SOUND'. TIME TO GTFOOH.
if you dont get what he said then thats your fault. he was making a point you fool
There is NO sound unless there is something to detect it!..a receiver! ..
I hate to tell you this, but what they knew for thousands of years still holds. The Earth is flat. and it is the center of our universe.
😁
Sounds like Mumbo Jumbo to me. Non duality is a new religion based on older concepts from different religions, like Atman of eastern beliefs, animism etc.
Reality is that humans need religion, to put in one bag everything that our mental capacities can not grasp, so now that Christianism, Socialism and other traditional beliefs are not kosher anymore, we try to find a new religion.
This was a nice talk until Russell began his misguided attack on (what he thinks of as) "science" - something he evidently knows very little about.
Evidently, he went to Cambridge.
"At Cambridge University (UK), he *studied mathematics and theoretical physics.* Then, as he became increasingly fascinated by the mysteries of the human mind he changed to experimental psychology. Pursuing this interest, he traveled to India to study meditation and eastern philosophy, and on his return took up the first research post ever offered in Britain on the psychology of meditation.
He also *has a post-graduate degree in computer science*, and conducted some of the early work on 3-dimensional displays, presaging by some twenty years the advent of virtual reality."
This is what makes AI research so interesting.
Under the current paradigm, you believe you can create conscious AI even though your paradigm says you can’t.
Under the Peter Russell paradigm, you believe you can’t create AI even though your paradigm says you can.
this is the field I have invested with much dedication into : the nature,the function ,the mechanics and the numerous processes of sensation ,perception ,references,memories,concepts formation,tabulating,monitoring,all those sensorial datas, to finally come to a personal interpretation and realise that the world out there is my ....
matter,energy,space and time are playing with our so called person or human entity to make us imagine and believe what may not be the True reality !! the only thing I am sure is that I am conscious of I AM .......OM