Remember controllers don’t matter much in the long run, it’s all about how comfortable you are. MD Luffy won a SF4 evo title with a ps2 controller. Initial D won a guilty gear tournament with a fucking steering wheel
If you're on a similar level with your opponent and his controller allows him to throw out electrics as easily as normal pokes, you'll quickly realize that controller type does matter. In a DVJ mirror momo-dog kept mentioning how fast Knee's electrics were, not the placement, the speed. This created situations where he'd lose the scramble most of the time if they went for electrics at the same time.
I can df2 PEWGF on keyboard, pad and stick and stick is by far the hardest. Knee is just the better player, Momo uses a pad, a much faster controller specifically for electrics and movement.
@@dechuggs9129again this come down to what you said. Comfortability. I'm usually a pad player but I consistently dropped inputs. I got a stick and it's honestly a piece of cake now. Is stick better? No but it's better for me
I have used the Hori Octa for about 3 years now. The Octa was originally designed for the analog stick to replace the digital pad as it has an octagonal gate (kind of like the Gamecube controller) hence the name. The dpad has problems with diagonal inputs due largely to the fact that the rubber contact pads are to large on the cardinal directions, they added a toggle in software that linearly ramps diagonal input sensitivity up to make it feel consistent. You still need to press harder than most dpads in any case. I made a mod (requires a 3d printer and disassembly) that fixes it physically you could also use card stock paper cut to size. Some other issues with the Hori Octa is that the dpad and analog stick are too close together and people with larger hands will collide with the analog housing rim when doing qcf movements for example. It has no right analog stick but L3 and R3 are default mapped to left shoulder and left trigger. The UWP app is hardly functional and has only ever received 1 update it can be fully controlled with the controller though when applying settings that functionality disappears, I would recommend using ReWASD for any changes you want to make HID's.
My biggest issue with the Octa is the diagonal inputs you mentioned. I feel like I'm shredding my thumb pressing on the damn dpad. I may move back to a Dualshock 4 despite how quickly they wear out.
What's really cool is that it still has the 6 face buttons for players who play CLAW style. I've always seen players who play claw on a regular ds4 or ds5 and found it to look uncomfortable so this 6 face button style seems more comfortable.
This comment right here is the reason i will be buying this controller. I play claw and bro i find myself switching from claw to standard throughout a match 😭
This is the exact reason I switched to 6 button fightpads. Was a bit odd getting used to the extra 2 buttons, but it was a natural step forward from how I was playing anyway Haven't looked back. Highly recommend for any pad claw players who want something more robust, but still on a budget
I also use the Hori Fighting Commander Octa and it's a fantastic controller. One very important word of advice though if you play claw and got big fingertips: the buttons are very sensitive and close to each other so fat finger accidents will happen if your fingers are laid sort of horizontally over the buttons, get in the habit of having your fingers more in an upright position over the buttons instead to minimize this issue. Lost a few games in the clutch turning 1 or 2 inputs into 1+3 or 2+4 because of that, even had a game where I downright looked super stupid inputting a ki charge when I went for a 1+2 input.
Dude, make up your own mind about it, as it may differ from Phi’s. Leverless for me was a revelation for playing Tekken (as well as SF, Gulity Gear, etc.).
@@davidspingler6337well yea but it’s kinda hard when u don’t know much about controllers and ppl aren’t trying to buy every controller to try out 😂 and when pros say something it means a lot (no hate im just saying)
been playing on keyb and applying movement on my gameplay is so hard, KBD'ing is there but there is so many miss input where on the lever can be only applied on. I just wish i can play with a lever controller so i can practice my movement
I'm a Reina main on the same controller (Hori Octa) and honestly wavedashing is pretty easy. The main challenge is getting electrics as down-forward isn't as directly accessible as something like leverless, so lining up the just frame with an attack button can be tricky.
wavedashing on the octa dpad will f*ck your thumb, i used for 6 months the octa not only is completely consumed but also is inconsistent as hell, i would not reccomend the gamepad. The dpad is too hard and way too mushy i prefer by far the razer raion dpad but also the ps5 for me has far greater dpad.
I set the L3 button to "Down" (you can have multiple buttons do the same thing) so that I can KBD by keeping my thumb on "Back" and use my pointer finger to input the "Down," also very helpful for quarter circle inputs/wavedashing. Hold down the little options button until the red light starts blinking, and then you can reassign any buttons you want on the fly (no need to open software).
@@huzaifasaeed9347In the case of directional movement specifically I believe it's allowed because PS4 controllers have a d-pad and an analogue stick, so you can bind d-pad down and stick down to different buttons
my biggest deciding factor in pad is if the dpad clicks or if it feels like im pressing on a pillow. The xbox elite controller is one i like alot cuz thin and "webbed" dpad that feels very satisfying and responsive to press.
i think most pros arent using leverless simply because theres no point switching out of what theyre comfortable with. however, devilster plays leverless and moves like a god, so i dont subscribe to the thought of leverless being bad for movement
if leverless is good enough for Super Akouma and Rangchu, is good for Tekken movement I think If someone wins a tournament with a leverless, maybe people will try it out just like they're trying the Hori pad Rangchu was so close at Dreamhack Dallas
I think his PhiDX's analysis applies to the beginner getting into Tekken up to the average Tekken player. I'm sure he didnt mean that it was impossible. But most of the top players are using controllers and arcade sticks.
That’s crazy that just now someone actually realized what I always thought about stick vs pad controlers for Tekken. I’m an og Tekken player and even tho I never competed in any mayor tournament in the back of my mind I always felt like playing with the controller was optimal. I played against many people around my neighborhood and it was funny how they would all complain about the same thing that I used to dodge or move away faster than them lol. Could it be that I was better or maybe it could off been something else but regardless I kept it to myself for years lol
Nah they rather make it worse. The tekken 8 version of that controller has the worst dpad imaginable. Diagonals don't register anymore compared to previous revisions.
I use an 8bitdo Sega Genesis 6 button pad that has 4 shoulder buttons for the XBox. For one it's much easier for me to do inputs on that pad. Two, for Steven I have the far right face buttons act as LP+RP and LK+RK which the two right shoulder buttons mimic. The left shoulders are for heat and rage. Some friends think my playstyle is somewhat odd because I play with thumb on the face buttons and don't understand how I'm able to do combos off of that or harder stuff because I'm literally using my thumb to press the buttons. But, it works.
Coming from the art community, it's always been more about the user than the tool. Tools help, yes. But it doesn't make up for lack of fundamentals. User over tool most days of the week
Its just so fascinating that we all play the same game with our own preferred controller. Even ones that are so unorthodox you wouldn't even think of something playing on it.
9:30 it completely checks out the new hardware thing, I come from playing a lot with my xbox controller and recently a friend gifted me a dualsense controller, I feel like im learning again with Reina, I have the theory and character knowledge, but that small change of position of the Dpad is really making me to learn again.
Heh! I picked up this controller back in Tekken 7 so I'm clearly better than Chikurin! (Kappa) The Dpad gets a bit softer with use, but do not waste time messing with it in the app, just remap the buttons as you find useful and leave it there. I moved away from it because I mostly play Mishimas and electrics felt inconsistent on it (not that I'm super consistent with them anyway). In particular things that require a precise df input feel like they fail randomly, like Heihachi's omen or PEWGF.
I got a Hori Octa for Tekken 8 on PS5 about 2 months back. It's not perfect, but it's a definite upgrade on a Dual Sense. It's also not going to break the bank compared to some other fighting controllers. 8/10
He’s spot on for movement fluidity on pads bs lever less. Pads are great for basic horizontal and vertical movement but I prefer lever less for input accuracy on both movement and attack buttons.
I played on a Kitsune exclusively for a while and the precision was good but motions like qcb or hcf I was still fucking up a lot. Some characters don’t have many of those though.
Dude i bought this controller a while ago on a friend’s recommendation and i couldnt be happier! This shit’s actually high quality. Never thought i’d ever be able to do a proper Korean backdash but this thing makes it a breeze
I have recently bought and trying out the Hori Tekken Version Pad for PC, it is lighter than a normal pad. The button mapping is useful to set the default to the PS4/5/X box pad default setting, then work from there. As the default of the Hori button position is kind of strange for like the RB and RT, the 4 buttons on both top sides are also kind of off and different from a normal pad due to the extra 2 buttons on the front. In addition, you need the button mapping to switch off the default auto LSB on that is add to the stick button. I remap the 4 front buttons closer to the right side which is more like the normal feel of a normal pad, then the extra 2 buttons in front which are closer to the middle, I map as L3 and R3. Which are normally I use as 1+4 and 2+3 (Heat) during button setting in game. I technically use all of the 10 buttons of this pad in button setting in the game.
Hmm, before switching to leverless, I was using the Xbox version of this Hori controller, and it’s not bad, definitely a bit cheaper build quality, but not bad at all. That said, using the leverless is such a superior experience for me in both Tekken and Street Fighter that it’s a huge step down trying to go back to a regular controller of any kind at this point.
Dang that d-pad is actually interesting ngl especially with the many different options with the extra buttons but... The only problem with me is the pad itself cause it's gonna get a lot to used to, Not saying it's trash more so on personal preference cause my friend bought a d-pad that's similar in design to the Xbox D-pad and dang feeling the movement there is just weird af and for the record he plays melty blood so already if my air combos are getting messed up cause of the awkward feeling of the D-pad on that this one being reviewed on video will be hard to adjust too. But then again I'm playing on Ps4 Controller and I won't go to Ps5 cause when I tried it it's just too stiff for my liking both as an Mishima and a Bryan practicing micro adjustments. But yeah... if I do have enough money maybe I'll take that out for a spin cause for personal preference I don't do claw method plus I already have the Macro's ingrained that switching to claw is just too much work to do. Not to mention it's not gonna be comfortable for me so yeah... what an interesting piece of hardware discovered indeed.
Big facts!!! I have a XBX and use the PS4 controller (I’ll never play Tekken on any other controller but a PS one). The PS5 controller is too stiff and the face where the buttons rest doesn’t exist on the DS5. There’s a flat face area on the DS4 that greatly adds to the feel of the buttons imo. I too am a Bryan main who plays Armor King/Mishimas. I have an arcade stick, thinkn bout trying a hit/mix box.
I feel buying a lever-less/stick is a must nowadays since 1. Pads are horrible quality and break literally in a few months even with the hori alpha the pad has had multiple inconsistency in diagonals and how long it last. I’ve played pad my whole life but its way to costly and inconsistent in the long run.
Yo Phi. You da man and it was amazing meeting you multiple times in our hotel lobby, but not too long ago, you and ur sister agreed that “in this house, we use lever.” lol!
Just ordered, I struggle so much with quarter-circle inputs because my hands get so clammy when I game, and my PS5 controller ends up registering as a DF or DB input. As a Nina main, this seems like a must. Wish me luck.
i would definitely recommend betop beitong c3 pad, cause it has diamond shape pad which is super useful df, db, uf, ub movements and it has 6 button layout as well
Hey phidx,I play with a normal PS4 controller with the analog sticks flipped and I use both the dpad and right analog stick for movement. You should give it a try if you really don't like hand fatigue.super comfortable lol
Remember folks, high end players will always say "play what you want, its all the same, also hitbox/lever isnt really good" But they will mostly play on lever/hitbox
I also want to add that Chikurin also moved to pad as levers as well as sanwa button were to noisy which noise is an issue if you have children. I heard MYK say this. Not sure how true it is but it makes sense.
God I hate that pad. I bought one like a 2 years ago; looks like you have ver 1 too. My dpad gave out from playing tekken 7 in less than a month. It went all squishy. Never buying anything from Hori again.
I use a mixbox I customize with SEIMITSU buttons. I got a peripheral called Odin made by layer shift. I feel like it helped my game play and got me used to playing the game.
Been on hitbox for the past several months and... yeah, Tekken movement feels better on a good dpad. I found I was inputting a lot of downs on leverless when I hadn't intended to, and while that's probably more an issue with my input technique than the controller, my movement on pad is just cleaner right now.
I tried out this out recently (a friend bought one). I really like 6 button layout on the face, since I play claw with pads. The controller is super light though. Other than that, it's a great pad. I also learned fight stick in TTT2 mainly play with Korean levers as well!
Honestly I highly recommend the Victrix PRO BFG controller, probably more expensive at $179 but the added customization is worth it. Comes with 3 D-Pads, one resembling the PlayStation pad, one like the Xbox and one hybrid of both, also has the 6 style button layout in case you use claw or the regular 4 style. Also has different joysticks and is able to be fully arranged from top to bottom if you’re also a fps player with longer joysticks if you’d wish. Solid buy imo. Not to mention the controller has 4 back buttons that can be binded to your liking. Can continue to mention more benefits from it honestly but even I forget how much more it has, I often watch TH-cam videos just to remember what other things it has
I use that pad. Only drawback to me are the buttons are TOO sensitive at times so I do a lot of extra inputs that can sometimes mess me up. The d-pad is good, but I would like a clicky d-pad on this. I love the controller overall.
I second this, I just got a cheap hitbox and honestly movement is better when I'm on hitbox than when I was on my DS5, I just have to get used to it pressing the buttons on my right hand but that's a me thing if anything
I can’t KBD on leverless… can’t KBD on anything else either. lol. I really like my Razer Kitsune. I switched from an arcade stick when I kept screwing up directional inputs.
I tried the commander octa. The dpad was awful for me. My fingers kinda fat so hitting precise commands was not good. The buttons however were very nice. Then i noticed i had an xbox controller laying around. Won it when i went to evo last (2021?) And its just collecting dust. Curiosty took over and ill be damned. Best dpad ive ever tried. The buttons are average but thats fine. I claw grip
I tried to tell ppl a full circle d pad with primary directions raised is great. I like it way better than a regular ps 4 controller. I still use a turtle beach xbox controller and it's perfect. Had the same one for freaking years.
Most pros are not on Hitbox because it takes a lot of effort to be godlike. Chikurin himself tried to convert to Leverless but he said it was too hard for him. In the video after he won EVO explaining why he switched(subtitles available). In my case, you have Bryan mains who can't do Taunt QCB1 or Taunt Mach Breaker and I'm here with less than 50 lifetime matches with Bryan and I warm up with them on leverless. Involving the face button index finger to aid with the Right direction button gives you the fastest wavedash and KDBing you ever see ON AVERAGE. And anyone can wavedash with King on P2 side if you truly understand SOCD. Put on input frame data and you'll see the difference in speed between leverless and other controllers. It's usually not the pros that show us new tech.
I have the Xbox version of the Hori and I am very content with it. D-pad isn’t the best but it sticks out more because the rest of the controller is just great.
I tried claw style on the dual sense and it started killing my right hand after a while (specifically the tendons that go to my pointer and middle finger), definitely don’t recommend it
I bought a 50 dollar leverless, movement is difficult, but execution is on point, but I feel it's more strict, and I'm having a bug where it skips my d to df, and it just goes to d to f, messing up my electrics. I feel I was more consistent with movement and execution on a pad, and with this controller, I believe tju is easier, especially with the stick being directional. Leverless was definitely fun to use, and I recommend trying one if you think you'll like it, but for me, stick to what makes you comfortable
Hori octa boosted my offense (mapped all the button combinations so I can use whole moveset easily) and dropped my defense by like 15 points (can't hit that diagonals). I can do electrics on it kinda easily but hellsweep is impossible (holding DF instead of just rubbing the dpad through the corner). I don't know how I feel about this pad. I'd like a better dpad but on the other hand other 6-button fightpads have "fake" buttons since front RB and RT are THE SAME buttons as the ones on the shoulder. Hori octa gives you 10 buttons to work with, not 8 (+2 just copied to the different location). Probably need to do some 3D printing shenanigans to make my dream pad.
my biggest issues with the Octa, as a Razer Raion user, are the d-pad being so small and the micro switch buttons. The micro switches actually make button presses slower, which is good if you play claw, but you wouldn't need to play claw if you had sanwa style buttons like the Raion.
Agreed. I love my Raion, and I definitely feel like the arcade style face buttons are the best part. I love the mechanical clickiness of the dpad too. Unfortunately I have the wave 1 version, which has some mush issues. But overall I love it. All I'm waiting for now is customizable components lol
For 30 dollars you can get an 8 bit do Sega Saturn style controller that I believe feels just about as effective as DS4, that which I also feel is the GOAT
Thank you for this video. I was thinking for a while to get that pad. Would be good if you could make another video when you get used to it. Thanks as always sir 🙏🏽
imo its good for people with smaller hands and fingers. when i used this controller, my fingers would often hit the stick when doing electrics or getting a uf input if im doing ff moves to fast, dpad gets good after a while of playing, but not my type of controller. for mishimas i still prefer the standard ds4 controller
hitboxes should not be allowed in tournament as far as I'm concerned. I play on a sanjucks lever but traditional stick is probably the worst method, but I don't play because it's good, I play because it's fun. And I can play for longer than on a traditional controller
I find it annoying how the face buttons are not all equal. The bottom right button (heavy kick in SF) is slanted compared to the others simply because it is on the edge of the pad, I can get used to it but it's annoying. I have no idea why Hori seems to do this with their pads by not just making everything equal. On the fighting commander the same button presses in ever so slightly different, the membrane rather collapses instead of "pops" is probably the best way to describe it, this happened with two I had. Honestly I wish someone would make a really good tournament grade joypad up to the same quality as joysticks, there do seem to be some creeping onto the market so hopefully one with just a perfect pad and buttons can't be far off.
I got an octa because I wanted a pad and my experience with the Dualsense dpad was AWFUL. I ended up hating the dpad on it as well because of it having the same problem in the opposite direction, but the analog stick felt overall great! Never thought I'd see the day I prefer it over a dpad lmao
I agree with the sentiment that movement is whatever on hitbox. Another thing hitbox is just okay at is mishima stuff like electrics and wavu. Specially on P2 side.
i returned that dpad. it sucks but if you compare it to ps5 its great. the xbox onne dpad is still my favorite. super responnsive, clicky and tactile 8 way direction
This pad sucks lmao. The D-Pad is terrible. Hori is apparently working on an improved version of this pad (with an improved d-pad), they made a tweet showing the new prototype d-pad at Evo Japan. Anyone interested in this pad should probably wait for the improved one
Controllers don't win, players do. It's a pretty mediocre pad. The dpad is okay... but the triggers are absolute garbage. I've used it for the past year because my Raion broke, but the Raion was far superior in my opinion. I switched to leverless for a variety of reasons, but a big one was lack of pad options. The octa being the best option nowadays is pretty rough.
Lili has always been easier on pad. Diagonals have higher chance to miss on stick and dewglide cancel is straight up more difficult bc of the tendency of the lever to add more inputs than necessary
I got one for my Xbox. I hate the tactile switches in the buttons. I like the old fighting commander buttons with the rubber membranes. It just feels faster.
I’m honestly not gonna buy this (at least not now) because the main reason why it’s so good rn is because the current movement in Tekken is really really good, like if you started from the middle of a stage and just started tapping back back over and over again you will reach the walls of the stage just as quickly as you would if you did a Korean Backdash, with the later just being a couple of milliseconds faster (it’s kinda why Chikurin was able to win evo without using the kbd even once) but I feel like eventually they’re gonna nerf the movement enough that switching to levers will be the better thing to do, I’ll wait like a year or something and see how much the movement has changed before I decide what to buy
Having recently tried both Hori FC Octa and another pad called 8Bitdo M30 wired, I can confidently say the D-pad on the hori controller is barely even functional. Holding the diagonals on the Hori pad is incredibly glitchy and inconsistent, and the pad will randomly give you neutral inputs even if you hold down back firmly, sometimes flickering between inputs tens of times per second. The octagonal gated stick is really good, but if you want to use the D-pad then it's a terrible choice. I tried it for an hour or so, and sold it immediately. The only flaws of the M30 are the fact that it doesn't work on the PS5, and the shape of the controller. I wish it had more of a handle like most normal controllers, but it's not a major issue at all.
Does the analog stick override the Dpad or does it SOCD out? I hear that on the Dualshock 4, in SFV at least, you can throw safe sonic booms like hold Dpad back and just nudge analog right and punch. I hope the Hori is like that.
A lot of people just like to copy what others are doing. Like when the Knee lever first came out. Everyone was on that. You can expect Lili mains to start purchasing this controller now.
does anyone else's thumb hurt when they use a dpad? I tried Tekken using a ps5 pad, and i could only play like 15 minutes before my thumb start to hurt.
Get a different pad or go leverless, you can easily get the feel by playing on a keyboard (not 100% the same). I play on a snackbox micro, since I doesn't struggle at all and is way more portable than any stick, comparable to a pad to me, now I feel inclined to order this one to try it out.
I play on it for years and got no problems honestly. And, I would say the Octa is even harder on the thumb than XSX (got both). If that's your issue Octa will not fix it and you should rather go for a hitbox or lever
I got the Hori OCTA Commander for Xbox and was not a fan of the dpad. Switched to the 8-bit DO and I love it. The d pad is like old SNES style it’s great.
The only problem with this pad is that the plastic for the dpad is really fragile, Mishima players tend to break it quite easily. I broke mine in a span of few months, but if you use it on other characters I highly recommended. (Exactly the corner plastics of the dpad are really fragile)
Am surprised he said movements is not good in hitbox, i switched from pad to hitbox and my movement improved so much there is no comparison, but i guess i might not have been that good with pad.
Remember controllers don’t matter much in the long run, it’s all about how comfortable you are. MD Luffy won a SF4 evo title with a ps2 controller. Initial D won a guilty gear tournament with a fucking steering wheel
If you're on a similar level with your opponent and his controller allows him to throw out electrics as easily as normal pokes, you'll quickly realize that controller type does matter.
In a DVJ mirror momo-dog kept mentioning how fast Knee's electrics were, not the placement, the speed. This created situations where he'd lose the scramble most of the time if they went for electrics at the same time.
I can df2 PEWGF on keyboard, pad and stick and stick is by far the hardest. Knee is just the better player, Momo uses a pad, a much faster controller specifically for electrics and movement.
A STEERING WHEEL????
@@geronimoflairpro A gaming did a video on it. The guy’s name is Initial T and he used a Logitech wheel
@@dechuggs9129again this come down to what you said. Comfortability. I'm usually a pad player but I consistently dropped inputs. I got a stick and it's honestly a piece of cake now. Is stick better? No but it's better for me
I have used the Hori Octa for about 3 years now.
The Octa was originally designed for the analog stick to replace the digital pad as it has an octagonal gate (kind of like the Gamecube controller) hence the name. The dpad has problems with diagonal inputs due largely to the fact that the rubber contact pads are to large on the cardinal directions, they added a toggle in software that linearly ramps diagonal input sensitivity up to make it feel consistent. You still need to press harder than most dpads in any case. I made a mod (requires a 3d printer and disassembly) that fixes it physically you could also use card stock paper cut to size.
Some other issues with the Hori Octa is that the dpad and analog stick are too close together and people with larger hands will collide with the analog housing rim when doing qcf movements for example. It has no right analog stick but L3 and R3 are default mapped to left shoulder and left trigger. The UWP app is hardly functional and has only ever received 1 update it can be fully controlled with the controller though when applying settings that functionality disappears, I would recommend using ReWASD for any changes you want to make HID's.
My biggest issue with the Octa is the diagonal inputs you mentioned. I feel like I'm shredding my thumb pressing on the damn dpad. I may move back to a Dualshock 4 despite how quickly they wear out.
this is why i switched from the octa to leverless.
Very informative!
Just buy regular Fighting Commander :v none of these issues, its great.
do you know where I can find details for this mod?
What's really cool is that it still has the 6 face buttons for players who play CLAW style. I've always seen players who play claw on a regular ds4 or ds5 and found it to look uncomfortable so this 6 face button style seems more comfortable.
This comment right here is the reason i will be buying this controller. I play claw and bro i find myself switching from claw to standard throughout a match 😭
@@jiggmandre real
This is the exact reason I switched to 6 button fightpads. Was a bit odd getting used to the extra 2 buttons, but it was a natural step forward from how I was playing anyway
Haven't looked back. Highly recommend for any pad claw players who want something more robust, but still on a budget
@@juandor9789 facts
@@13Kr4zYAzN13 fasho!!
i've been using the octa forever, the pad and buttons on it are GOATED. Highly recommend for anyone on or wanting to use pad
I also use the Hori Fighting Commander Octa and it's a fantastic controller. One very important word of advice though if you play claw and got big fingertips: the buttons are very sensitive and close to each other so fat finger accidents will happen if your fingers are laid sort of horizontally over the buttons, get in the habit of having your fingers more in an upright position over the buttons instead to minimize this issue.
Lost a few games in the clutch turning 1 or 2 inputs into 1+3 or 2+4 because of that, even had a game where I downright looked super stupid inputting a ki charge when I went for a 1+2 input.
I just bought a leverless and bro just said its not good for tekken movement. fuck my life.
Dude, make up your own mind about it, as it may differ from Phi’s. Leverless for me was a revelation for playing Tekken (as well as SF, Gulity Gear, etc.).
@@davidspingler6337well yea but it’s kinda hard when u don’t know much about controllers and ppl aren’t trying to buy every controller to try out 😂 and when pros say something it means a lot (no hate im just saying)
been playing on keyb and applying movement on my gameplay is so hard, KBD'ing is there but there is so many miss input where on the lever can be only applied on. I just wish i can play with a lever controller so i can practice my movement
HE SAID A STICK NOT LEVERLESS like wtf are you on
There's usually a return policy if you don't end up liking it btw what's a leverless? Sorry
I'm a Reina main on the same controller (Hori Octa) and honestly wavedashing is pretty easy. The main challenge is getting electrics as down-forward isn't as directly accessible as something like leverless, so lining up the just frame with an attack button can be tricky.
Dude, I got an octa and absolutely hate it, I can’t do wavedashing or electrics for shit how do you do it
@@chopsuey004I remap f to r2 and b to r1 it’s legal
wavedashing on the octa dpad will f*ck your thumb, i used for 6 months the octa not only is completely consumed but also is inconsistent as hell, i would not reccomend the gamepad. The dpad is too hard and way too mushy i prefer by far the razer raion dpad but also the ps5 for me has far greater dpad.
I set the L3 button to "Down" (you can have multiple buttons do the same thing) so that I can KBD by keeping my thumb on "Back" and use my pointer finger to input the "Down," also very helpful for quarter circle inputs/wavedashing. Hold down the little options button until the red light starts blinking, and then you can reassign any buttons you want on the fly (no need to open software).
That's not allowed in tournament settings tho. They want you to have a one button per input
@@huzaifasaeed9347 brother most of us will never be tourny competitors, and if you do go its casually. do whatever is comfortable for you.
@@huzaifasaeed9347In the case of directional movement specifically I believe it's allowed because PS4 controllers have a d-pad and an analogue stick, so you can bind d-pad down and stick down to different buttons
my biggest deciding factor in pad is if the dpad clicks or if it feels like im pressing on a pillow. The xbox elite controller is one i like alot cuz thin and "webbed" dpad that feels very satisfying and responsive to press.
At evo japan they were testing the hori octa with a different dpad so they're fixing the dpad issue
wait what? that’s fantastic news.
do we know what kind of dpad??
Hm the d-pad on the cammy/juri controllers they are releasing now still looks the same sadly.
So you know if this was ever done?
So some people tested out at Tokyo game show, no announcement of when it coming out nor on sale yet but I am looking forward to the octa pro
Phi actually made good lookin costume With shoes?!
good shoes are part of the f00t f3tish
Das Crazy.
i think most pros arent using leverless simply because theres no point switching out of what theyre comfortable with. however, devilster plays leverless and moves like a god, so i dont subscribe to the thought of leverless being bad for movement
It could just be him overcoming mechanical limitations with skill
if leverless is good enough for Super Akouma and Rangchu, is good for Tekken movement I think
If someone wins a tournament with a leverless, maybe people will try it out just like they're trying the Hori pad
Rangchu was so close at Dreamhack Dallas
not good ≠ bad
@@kumanochi WHOA BUDDY cant be reasonable and actually understand what words mean around here
I think his PhiDX's analysis applies to the beginner getting into Tekken up to the average Tekken player. I'm sure he didnt mean that it was impossible. But most of the top players are using controllers and arcade sticks.
That’s crazy that just now someone actually realized what I always thought about stick vs pad controlers for Tekken.
I’m an og Tekken player and even tho I never competed in any mayor tournament in the back of my mind I always felt like playing with the controller was optimal.
I played against many people around my neighborhood and it was funny how they would all complain about the same thing that I used to dodge or move away faster than them lol.
Could it be that I was better or maybe it could off been something else but regardless I kept it to myself for years lol
NGL I wasn't expecting Phi to immediately start doing clean dpad backdashes right after plugging in the pad.
They need to make an update to the controller and prioritize the diagonals inputs more. I feel that the window of the diagonals is too narrow
You can lower the non-diagonal sensitivity with the companion app
@@mirax96 Yeah but it adds a little bit of dead zone to the linear inputs. So it's a difficult trade.
Nah they rather make it worse. The tekken 8 version of that controller has the worst dpad imaginable. Diagonals don't register anymore compared to previous revisions.
@@rafal2675 You mean up, down, left and right? Because if so, nope! You can change the diagonal ones only!
I see a lot of complaining but no one offering any alternatives
I use an 8bitdo Sega Genesis 6 button pad that has 4 shoulder buttons for the XBox. For one it's much easier for me to do inputs on that pad. Two, for Steven I have the far right face buttons act as LP+RP and LK+RK which the two right shoulder buttons mimic. The left shoulders are for heat and rage.
Some friends think my playstyle is somewhat odd because I play with thumb on the face buttons and don't understand how I'm able to do combos off of that or harder stuff because I'm literally using my thumb to press the buttons. But, it works.
Dual Shock 4 on my XBX, not only will I never play Tekken without a PS controller, but the Dual Shock 4 is the best controller out there for Tekken.
I bought this controller 6 months ago strictly for SFVI. Best controller for fighting I’ve ever bought and I have a ton of controllers
Coming from the art community, it's always been more about the user than the tool. Tools help, yes. But it doesn't make up for lack of fundamentals. User over tool most days of the week
Its just so fascinating that we all play the same game with our own preferred controller. Even ones that are so unorthodox you wouldn't even think of something playing on it.
What a coincidence, I just ordered a Hori octa tekken edition yesterday. Excellent timing on your part.
the dpad is garbage ur gonna hate it, i tried it myself and returned it to buy an xbox series x controller
@@monkeplaysgames7049 is that so? What was the issue with the dpad?
@@ismaeltsimatavy8131 squishy and doesn't click
9:30 it completely checks out the new hardware thing, I come from playing a lot with my xbox controller and recently a friend gifted me a dualsense controller,
I feel like im learning again with Reina, I have the theory and character knowledge, but that small change of position of the Dpad is really making me to learn again.
Heh! I picked up this controller back in Tekken 7 so I'm clearly better than Chikurin! (Kappa)
The Dpad gets a bit softer with use, but do not waste time messing with it in the app, just remap the buttons as you find useful and leave it there.
I moved away from it because I mostly play Mishimas and electrics felt inconsistent on it (not that I'm super consistent with them anyway). In particular things that require a precise df input feel like they fail randomly, like Heihachi's omen or PEWGF.
“leverless in general is not that good for tekken”
proceeds to play pad as if it’s a leverless
Thank god Spero Gin didn't win Evo Japan
LOL
PS1 controllers sales improve lol
lmao,good one
Everyone on double converters lol
Yoooo that ann background. Persona 5 is such a good game. 10/10 approved
I got a Hori Octa for Tekken 8 on PS5 about 2 months back. It's not perfect, but it's a definite upgrade on a Dual Sense. It's also not going to break the bank compared to some other fighting controllers. 8/10
He’s spot on for movement fluidity on pads bs lever less. Pads are great for basic horizontal and vertical movement but I prefer lever less for input accuracy on both movement and attack buttons.
I played on a Kitsune exclusively for a while and the precision was good but motions like qcb or hcf I was still fucking up a lot. Some characters don’t have many of those though.
Dude i bought this controller a while ago on a friend’s recommendation and i couldnt be happier! This shit’s actually high quality. Never thought i’d ever be able to do a proper Korean backdash but this thing makes it a breeze
I had to return mine 3 time to get one that registers diagonal inputs. But once you get a functioning one it’s good
I have recently bought and trying out the Hori Tekken Version Pad for PC, it is lighter than a normal pad. The button mapping is useful to set the default to the PS4/5/X box pad default setting, then work from there. As the default of the Hori button position is kind of strange for like the RB and RT, the 4 buttons on both top sides are also kind of off and different from a normal pad due to the extra 2 buttons on the front. In addition, you need the button mapping to switch off the default auto LSB on that is add to the stick button. I remap the 4 front buttons closer to the right side which is more like the normal feel of a normal pad, then the extra 2 buttons in front which are closer to the middle, I map as L3 and R3. Which are normally I use as 1+4 and 2+3 (Heat) during button setting in game. I technically use all of the 10 buttons of this pad in button setting in the game.
Hmm, before switching to leverless, I was using the Xbox version of this Hori controller, and it’s not bad, definitely a bit cheaper build quality, but not bad at all. That said, using the leverless is such a superior experience for me in both Tekken and Street Fighter that it’s a huge step down trying to go back to a regular controller of any kind at this point.
to me a big selling point is just that it doesnt have a battery, and still have some build quality, wich for some reason is so hard to find 💀
Dang that d-pad is actually interesting ngl especially with the many different options with the extra buttons but...
The only problem with me is the pad itself cause it's gonna get a lot to used to, Not saying it's trash more so on personal preference cause my friend bought a d-pad that's similar in design to the Xbox D-pad and dang feeling the movement there is just weird af and for the record he plays melty blood so already if my air combos are getting messed up cause of the awkward feeling of the D-pad on that this one being reviewed on video will be hard to adjust too.
But then again I'm playing on Ps4 Controller and I won't go to Ps5 cause when I tried it it's just too stiff for my liking both as an Mishima and a Bryan practicing micro adjustments. But yeah... if I do have enough money maybe I'll take that out for a spin cause for personal preference I don't do claw method plus I already have the Macro's ingrained that switching to claw is just too much work to do. Not to mention it's not gonna be comfortable for me so yeah... what an interesting piece of hardware discovered indeed.
Big facts!!! I have a XBX and use the PS4 controller (I’ll never play Tekken on any other controller but a PS one). The PS5 controller is too stiff and the face where the buttons rest doesn’t exist on the DS5. There’s a flat face area on the DS4 that greatly adds to the feel of the buttons imo. I too am a Bryan main who plays Armor King/Mishimas. I have an arcade stick, thinkn bout trying a hit/mix box.
I feel buying a lever-less/stick is a must nowadays since 1. Pads are horrible quality and break literally in a few months even with the hori alpha the pad has had multiple inconsistency in diagonals and how long it last. I’ve played pad my whole life but its way to costly and inconsistent in the long run.
controllers are literally $40 and leverless / sticks are like $250 a pop what are you talking about
Haute 42 has decent options for under 50$
Imagine if Chikurin wins Evo with a Keyboard 😂😂
Keyboard stonks
Yo Phi. You da man and it was amazing meeting you multiple times in our hotel lobby, but not too long ago, you and ur sister agreed that “in this house, we use lever.” lol!
Please follow-up in a week or two to show your viewers if there has been much wear or if everything is still consistently working.
I absolutely love my octa. I hope eventually pad players can get as much attention/innovation to their chosen controllers like stick and leverless
Just ordered, I struggle so much with quarter-circle inputs because my hands get so clammy when I game, and my PS5 controller ends up registering as a DF or DB input. As a Nina main, this seems like a must. Wish me luck.
Feedback?
i would definitely recommend betop beitong c3 pad, cause it has diamond shape pad which is super useful df, db, uf, ub movements and it has 6 button layout as well
Hey phidx,I play with a normal PS4 controller with the analog sticks flipped and I use both the dpad and right analog stick for movement.
You should give it a try if you really don't like hand fatigue.super comfortable lol
Same, not just comfortable but i’m also hitting 8-9/10 electrics consistently ever since i gave up on trying to do it on the dpad
How do you flip the sticks for movement in Tekken?
On PS5 go to the accessibility settings,on PC go to the settings menu in-game under controller layout
Remember folks, high end players will always say "play what you want, its all the same, also hitbox/lever isnt really good"
But they will mostly play on lever/hitbox
I also want to add that Chikurin also moved to pad as levers as well as sanwa button were to noisy which noise is an issue if you have children. I heard MYK say this. Not sure how true it is but it makes sense.
God I hate that pad. I bought one like a 2 years ago; looks like you have ver 1 too. My dpad gave out from playing tekken 7 in less than a month. It went all squishy. Never buying anything from Hori again.
I bought the hori octa and absolutely hate the dpad lmao
I use a mixbox I customize with SEIMITSU buttons. I got a peripheral called Odin made by layer shift. I feel like it helped my game play and got me used to playing the game.
Ive got the xbox version and I agree for that analysis. Definitely why I bought mine. Still have my RAP4 though and a custom I made during dbfightz
Been on hitbox for the past several months and... yeah, Tekken movement feels better on a good dpad. I found I was inputting a lot of downs on leverless when I hadn't intended to, and while that's probably more an issue with my input technique than the controller, my movement on pad is just cleaner right now.
I tried out this out recently (a friend bought one). I really like 6 button layout on the face, since I play claw with pads. The controller is super light though. Other than that, it's a great pad. I also learned fight stick in TTT2 mainly play with Korean levers as well!
I want to see Mishima combo guide on this pad.
Honestly I highly recommend the Victrix PRO BFG controller, probably more expensive at $179 but the added customization is worth it. Comes with 3 D-Pads, one resembling the PlayStation pad, one like the Xbox and one hybrid of both, also has the 6 style button layout in case you use claw or the regular 4 style. Also has different joysticks and is able to be fully arranged from top to bottom if you’re also a fps player with longer joysticks if you’d wish. Solid buy imo. Not to mention the controller has 4 back buttons that can be binded to your liking. Can continue to mention more benefits from it honestly but even I forget how much more it has, I often watch TH-cam videos just to remember what other things it has
I use that pad. Only drawback to me are the buttons are TOO sensitive at times so I do a lot of extra inputs that can sometimes mess me up. The d-pad is good, but I would like a clicky d-pad on this. I love the controller overall.
There's not a single reason why Leverless wouldn't be good for Tekken movement. The only hurdle is getting used to Up on thumb.
I second this, I just got a cheap hitbox and honestly movement is better when I'm on hitbox than when I was on my DS5, I just have to get used to it pressing the buttons on my right hand but that's a me thing if anything
Co-sign!
I'm even willing to put up videos of the potential movement potential of leverless.
I can’t KBD on leverless… can’t KBD on anything else either. lol. I really like my Razer Kitsune. I switched from an arcade stick when I kept screwing up directional inputs.
I tried the commander octa.
The dpad was awful for me. My fingers kinda fat so hitting precise commands was not good. The buttons however were very nice.
Then i noticed i had an xbox controller laying around. Won it when i went to evo last (2021?) And its just collecting dust. Curiosty took over and ill be damned. Best dpad ive ever tried. The buttons are average but thats fine. I claw grip
Dpad tends to get mushy over time and for me personally kinda digs into the corner of my thumb other than that quite a decent controller
I tried to tell ppl a full circle d pad with primary directions raised is great. I like it way better than a regular ps 4 controller. I still use a turtle beach xbox controller and it's perfect. Had the same one for freaking years.
Most pros are not on Hitbox because it takes a lot of effort to be godlike.
Chikurin himself tried to convert to Leverless but he said it was too hard for him. In the video after he won EVO explaining why he switched(subtitles available).
In my case, you have Bryan mains who can't do Taunt QCB1 or Taunt Mach Breaker and I'm here with less than 50 lifetime matches with Bryan and I warm up with them on leverless.
Involving the face button index finger to aid with the Right direction button gives you the fastest wavedash and KDBing you ever see ON AVERAGE. And anyone can wavedash with King on P2 side if you truly understand SOCD.
Put on input frame data and you'll see the difference in speed between leverless and other controllers.
It's usually not the pros that show us new tech.
I have the Xbox version of the Hori and I am very content with it. D-pad isn’t the best but it sticks out more because the rest of the controller is just great.
It's pretty easy to swap the stock buttons on a ps5 controller to mouse click buttons that feel way more responsive.
I tried claw style on the dual sense and it started killing my right hand after a while (specifically the tendons that go to my pointer and middle finger), definitely don’t recommend it
Same
I bought a 50 dollar leverless, movement is difficult, but execution is on point, but I feel it's more strict, and I'm having a bug where it skips my d to df, and it just goes to d to f, messing up my electrics. I feel I was more consistent with movement and execution on a pad, and with this controller, I believe tju is easier, especially with the stick being directional.
Leverless was definitely fun to use, and I recommend trying one if you think you'll like it, but for me, stick to what makes you comfortable
Hori octa boosted my offense (mapped all the button combinations so I can use whole moveset easily) and dropped my defense by like 15 points (can't hit that diagonals). I can do electrics on it kinda easily but hellsweep is impossible (holding DF instead of just rubbing the dpad through the corner). I don't know how I feel about this pad. I'd like a better dpad but on the other hand other 6-button fightpads have "fake" buttons since front RB and RT are THE SAME buttons as the ones on the shoulder. Hori octa gives you 10 buttons to work with, not 8 (+2 just copied to the different location). Probably need to do some 3D printing shenanigans to make my dream pad.
my biggest issues with the Octa, as a Razer Raion user, are the d-pad being so small and the micro switch buttons. The micro switches actually make button presses slower, which is good if you play claw, but you wouldn't need to play claw if you had sanwa style buttons like the Raion.
Agreed. I love my Raion, and I definitely feel like the arcade style face buttons are the best part.
I love the mechanical clickiness of the dpad too. Unfortunately I have the wave 1 version, which has some mush issues. But overall I love it. All I'm waiting for now is customizable components lol
For 30 dollars you can get an 8 bit do Sega Saturn style controller that I believe feels just about as effective as DS4, that which I also feel is the GOAT
Thank you for this video. I was thinking for a while to get that pad. Would be good if you could make another video when you get used to it. Thanks as always sir 🙏🏽
imo its good for people with smaller hands and fingers. when i used this controller, my fingers would often hit the stick when doing electrics or getting a uf input if im doing ff moves to fast, dpad gets good after a while of playing, but not my type of controller. for mishimas i still prefer the standard ds4 controller
hitboxes should not be allowed in tournament as far as I'm concerned. I play on a sanjucks lever but traditional stick is probably the worst method, but I don't play because it's good, I play because it's fun. And I can play for longer than on a traditional controller
I think as T8 progresses and we see new players topping and winning events we are gonna see more leverless players winning tournaments
I find it annoying how the face buttons are not all equal.
The bottom right button (heavy kick in SF) is slanted compared to the others simply because it is on the edge of the pad, I can get used to it but it's annoying.
I have no idea why Hori seems to do this with their pads by not just making everything equal.
On the fighting commander the same button presses in ever so slightly different, the membrane rather collapses instead of "pops" is probably the best way to describe it, this happened with two I had.
Honestly I wish someone would make a really good tournament grade joypad up to the same quality as joysticks, there do seem to be some creeping onto the market so hopefully one with just a perfect pad and buttons can't be far off.
I got an octa because I wanted a pad and my experience with the Dualsense dpad was AWFUL. I ended up hating the dpad on it as well because of it having the same problem in the opposite direction, but the analog stick felt overall great! Never thought I'd see the day I prefer it over a dpad lmao
I agree with the sentiment that movement is whatever on hitbox. Another thing hitbox is just okay at is mishima stuff like electrics and wavu. Specially on P2 side.
i returned that dpad. it sucks but if you compare it to ps5 its great. the xbox onne dpad is still my favorite. super responnsive, clicky and tactile 8 way direction
Gave mine away to a friend who now swears by it. According to him you have to keep your thumb smack in the middle.
You can setup directions on buttons, which is something really interesting for those cancel movements
This pad sucks lmao. The D-Pad is terrible. Hori is apparently working on an improved version of this pad (with an improved d-pad), they made a tweet showing the new prototype d-pad at Evo Japan. Anyone interested in this pad should probably wait for the improved one
Been using the Nintendo switch version of the Commander right now until the improved one
Controllers don't win, players do. It's a pretty mediocre pad. The dpad is okay... but the triggers are absolute garbage. I've used it for the past year because my Raion broke, but the Raion was far superior in my opinion. I switched to leverless for a variety of reasons, but a big one was lack of pad options. The octa being the best option nowadays is pretty rough.
Lili has always been easier on pad. Diagonals have higher chance to miss on stick and dewglide cancel is straight up more difficult bc of the tendency of the lever to add more inputs than necessary
I got one for my Xbox. I hate the tactile switches in the buttons. I like the old fighting commander buttons with the rubber membranes. It just feels faster.
Ah hell yeah, I was hoping for this. I was really interested in it because it's so rare over there, and ya know, it's chikurin.
I’m honestly not gonna buy this (at least not now) because the main reason why it’s so good rn is because the current movement in Tekken is really really good, like if you started from the middle of a stage and just started tapping back back over and over again you will reach the walls of the stage just as quickly as you would if you did a Korean Backdash, with the later just being a couple of milliseconds faster (it’s kinda why Chikurin was able to win evo without using the kbd even once) but I feel like eventually they’re gonna nerf the movement enough that switching to levers will be the better thing to do, I’ll wait like a year or something and see how much the movement has changed before I decide what to buy
Having recently tried both Hori FC Octa and another pad called 8Bitdo M30 wired, I can confidently say the D-pad on the hori controller is barely even functional. Holding the diagonals on the Hori pad is incredibly glitchy and inconsistent, and the pad will randomly give you neutral inputs even if you hold down back firmly, sometimes flickering between inputs tens of times per second. The octagonal gated stick is really good, but if you want to use the D-pad then it's a terrible choice. I tried it for an hour or so, and sold it immediately.
The only flaws of the M30 are the fact that it doesn't work on the PS5, and the shape of the controller. I wish it had more of a handle like most normal controllers, but it's not a major issue at all.
Is there a way to save practice settings for defense? it's really annoying having to do it every time
I use the Sega Saturn Pro controller and I love it for tekken. Mavercade leverless for street fighter
started tekken 8 with this controller but use a razor kitzune leverless now
Does the analog stick override the Dpad or does it SOCD out? I hear that on the Dualshock 4, in SFV at least, you can throw safe sonic booms like hold Dpad back and just nudge analog right and punch. I hope the Hori is like that.
I know its a bit of a selfish request but is it possible to as you to review the victrix pro bfg it's a modular controller with similar ergonomics
Leverless is the best choice for fighting games, period.
Is the octa good for Street Fighter? Been thinking about getting one for myself for Tekken since I tried a hitbox and I didn't like it. I play on pad.
A lot of people just like to copy what others are doing. Like when the Knee lever first came out. Everyone was on that. You can expect Lili mains to start purchasing this controller now.
does anyone else's thumb hurt when they use a dpad? I tried Tekken using a ps5 pad, and i could only play like 15 minutes before my thumb start to hurt.
what is your age
@@RescueArk late 20s
@@BillytheEntertainer i am also in my late 20's my thumb stats hurting after 30 minutes now i switched to keyboard
Wanna know what's f'd up? I play on a stock Xbox x|s controller... My left hand thumb hurts
Get a different pad or go leverless, you can easily get the feel by playing on a keyboard (not 100% the same). I play on a snackbox micro, since I doesn't struggle at all and is way more portable than any stick, comparable to a pad to me, now I feel inclined to order this one to try it out.
i was the same, which is why i ended up switching to keyboard recently
I play on it for years and got no problems honestly.
And, I would say the Octa is even harder on the thumb than XSX (got both).
If that's your issue Octa will not fix it and you should rather go for a hitbox or lever
I played on DualShock and switched to x|s controller and it’s so comfortable. It has good inputs
Did you ever try it after the events?
Sadly, the Octa didn't work for me to play Tekken. I couldn't adapt to the Dpad. But it's great to play SF 6 with the analog stick.
I got the Hori OCTA Commander for Xbox and was not a fan of the dpad. Switched to the 8-bit DO and I love it. The d pad is like old SNES style it’s great.
I use this controller myself, its not great for quarter circle but I'm a Kuma main so no big deal.
I use ds4 wired to PC. It's pretty decent and seems to be more responsive than the wireless connection. Never tried the dual sens
Dual Sex*
I don't understand how you're not getting constant diagonal miss inputs. Are there different versions of this pad with different build qualities?
as a pad player playing CLAW style, I use L1 as heat burst
The only problem with this pad is that the plastic for the dpad is really fragile, Mishima players tend to break it quite easily. I broke mine in a span of few months, but if you use it on other characters I highly recommended. (Exactly the corner plastics of the dpad are really fragile)
Am I crazy for playing this game for decades and I still don't map any buttons?
Leverless gang graaaaah
yessuh
I bought a leverless for Tekken and then just ended up switching to it for every game. No regrets, leverless is the future.
Leverless gang. Haute 42 is legit. No more carpal tunnel hand pains woooo
@erk8520 nah facts. Got that S16 for this game and been loving it. Also easy to transport
Am surprised he said movements is not good in hitbox, i switched from pad to hitbox and my movement improved so much there is no comparison, but i guess i might not have been that good with pad.