This is not even close to everything. Really just a piece. Also didn’t want to give too many specifics away. Didn’t want to start throwing in specific teachings and scriptures. Don’t want to cause a debate. Just want to tell a part of the story. (There is a moment in this video where I formulated a sentence that doesn’t make any sense at all but it’s super funny. I’m aware of my fumble lol.) Also if you are a part of ICC/ICOC here to defend your group, I will either delete your comments or roast the nuts off you. I know all y’alls tea as well.😘
I was in the ICOC in the mid 90's, thanks for making this video, the more people who are aware the better. You never know who this might help one day..
Please share more. I'm a Mom with a daughter that's been Brainwashed for 26yrs in ICOC. I just found out last year 2023. Since I let her know that I know all hell has broken loose. She's vicious and mean as hell to me trying to protect the cult. I'm your fan now. Keep spilling the beans, it's great mental health therapy
Thank you so much for listening to some of my story. I’m sure I will share more in the future. Let me just say that you are such an amazing mother for trying to help her. So so so amazing. The day that she leaves she will look back and be so grateful. I can say this as someone who was in the same spot as her who eventually left and reconnected with my parents (I wasn’t a part of my group for as long as her but definitely had the same mindset). Unfortunately the viciousness comes from the extreme brainwashing she’s been through. The ICOC has taught her to expect “persecution” from even the closest of family members. When my parents tried to get me out and called my group a cult, I saw it as them trying to take me away from God. And being taken away from God meant an eternity in hell. It sounds too crazy to be true, but it is so real to us experiencing it. I was so mean to my parents when they’d do that as a defense. We’re told to stand up to persecution. Show whoever is persecuting us that we stand with God. And that when we do that, we are actually setting the true spiritual standard for our loved ones (in reality we are pushing them farther away). I recommend reading online about ways to support family members who are inside a cult. When trying to help someone on the inside who is brainwashed, we have to be careful with our words. One wrong word can switch the mood very quickly. It’s tricky. Feel free to message me on facebook if there is anything else I can do to help. I hope your daughter gets out soon.🙏
Hey Shelby, random internet person here. Found your video because I'm a Christian and being in grad school I've been able to talk to an ICC person (and other cult people) and just wanna know more about them so I can hopefully nudge that person out of there. I commend you for your courage to put this video out there, you're obviously a very smart and brave person. It makes me especially sad (and mad) that you experienced all this at the hands of people taking up the name of Christ. Salvation is a free gift from God, not a club to threaten people with. The Bible encourages independent thinking, debate, family time, secular work, and all sorts of things this group is afraid of. (not to mention compassion, gentleness, and love) Anyways, thanks for your video. It definitely gives me some perspective on what being in the group is like. I am praying for your ongoing growth and recovery from being in that group. God bless you.
Thank you so much for listening and also for your amazing heart to help people obtain their freedom. I had people like you come up and try to learn more to help me as well, and it probably didn’t seem like they did much to help me from their perspective, but it truly did A LOT. I’d think about the discussions I’d have with those people frequently throughout the days. It was one of many parts of the build up to leaving. You are very right. The bible preaches something very different than what they interpret and twist it to be. Thank you.🙏
@@shelbygundrey Glad to see so many replies, sad to admit how fun it was for children. This whole thing was just a scheme hinging on the lie of disciple and Christian being synonymous. All organized religion is dangerous because men takeover desiring personal tyranny. Therefore go and make disciples are not commanded to us, Jesus said greatest commandment is Mathew 22:35-40, Mark 12:28 and Luke 10:27. Paul (Saul) taught same thing in Christianity such as Ephesians 4:32 and Romans 12:10 repeated by other epistles such as 1 Peter 4:8 and 1 John 4:20. The entire Holy Bible is relevant however the gospels and acts are narratives written for us but not to us. Epistles on the other hand definitely written to us or all who believe in death and resurrection of Jesus. That is the difference between disciples and Christians and ICC/ICOC misinforms way too much.
Hey Shelby. I want you to know that you do not have to apologize to those people. This is a very common feeling that people who have suffered trauma have, the fear that you have let the abuser's down, and that they will be upset or angry with you. What you need to understand is that they no longer have any power over you. They can not gaslight you, they can not demean who you are, because you have value, something that they tried to take away from you. And it helps to remind yourself every day of this. I'm glad you escaped, and I hope you give yourself time to heal.
Thank you so much for listening and for your kind words. They are extremely helpful and uplifting. It’s can be hard for me because I’m a natural people pleaser haha (probs why I was an easy convert), and now I got all this in my head as well. I’ll overcome it! I’m confident.😁 Thank you again, wish you nothing but the best.🙏
Shelby, thanks so much for sharing your story. I was a member of the ICC, before it splintered off into the ICOC. My story had a lot of similarities to yours. I admire you so much for sharing in such a real way. My experiences with this group in Palm Springs messed me up so badly that I became an agnostics.
thank you so much for sharing your story. i think this will help others immeasurably. i know you feel embarrassed, but i don’t think there’s any reason to. the tactics these groups use are so harmful and so hard to fight against. i’m really proud of you for getting out and for being back in school :) you’re doing so so great
Three simple rules that greatly improved happiness: 1. Simply identify who are Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Borderlines, and anyone Pathological. DO YOUR RESEARCH. 2. Identify and map physical locations where these beings are found. SEE WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED. 3. AVOID THOSE LOCATIONS. Once you know where they are located, simply go where they are not. Be where they are not. Reject their invitations ALWAYS. This simple set of rules will greatly improve happiness and safety. It’s really that simple. The only real "mental issue" you may have is EMPATHY. Empathy gets abused, manipulated and turned against you by these soulless entities. Increase your distance every chance you get. You only lose out when you are within their proximity, no matter how appealing they appear.
Matt and Terry Wirgler!?? Omg! I used to adore them! I was in their Bible Talk & I was there when he proposed to her. Of course I attended the wedding. WOW what a trip
Thank you for sharing. FYI ICC (International Christian Church) is a split from ICOC (International Church of Christ) because ICOC rejected Kim McKean manipulative practices around 2000. Kip McKean then formed ICC. ICOC is reforming but there are still remnants of Kip’s teaching still in the ICOC. I’m a seminary student and I’d love to do an interview with you for my report if you are interested. I would honor your NDA.
@@glorywolf812 Correct! Thank you for the offer. I am not sure if I’d be okay with an interview as of where I am at right now, but I can point you to other people who have left the same group as me if you’d like.🙏
I was in the Indianapolis branch of the church myself. Was in in for right about two years and I didn't experience it as bad as you did given that I have a wife and wasn't controlable like that. But I know that brothers and sisters household were all very controlled. I pray that you are doing better mentally and getting stronger. I sense your heart and it's so valuable, please don't let them change you. I have to fight myself to not resent them on a regular basis. If it wasn't for the love I have for Jesus and wanting to do right by Him I would be in so much trouble. So I pray that you won't let them mess that up for you, don't let them take away your relationship with Christ our Lord. He is what matters, not an organization like the ICC or ICOC. Appreciate your heart my friend. Now you know what to NOT want in a church. I interviewed the lead pastor at the church I go to now for 2 hrs before finally attending. It's ok to do stuff like that. Praying for you amd look forward to more...thanx
Thank you for listening and for sharing yourself bro, I appreciate it.🙏 I am so glad you are also out of that environment! Everything you said was very important not only for me but anyone watching this video looking through comments. I wish you the best.🙌
I was in the ICC cult for a few years, well done for leaving something similar , any church that wants a NDA is madness Jesus never did that, I'm curious as why they would do that it seems crazy ?
So glad you are also out.🙏 Right? All an NDA does is hide things. Not very biblical at all! I know why they had us do it, but I won’t share those details haha.
Thanks for sharing your story. I was brought into a cult by my mother at age 9, brainwashing is a real thing. Once it happens hard to get it out of your mind, even years later. Don't feel embarrased, it happens to all walks of life even very intellegent people. Keep working at getting out of that mindset you'll be ok. I left when I was 21 and my mother is still in she hasn't spoken to me in 44 years. It hurts but I will never go back to the cult. God bless you!! You should be proud of yourself you were smart enough to get out. ❤😊
I joined CoC 12 years ago 12 years ago at 38 years old and brought my daughter with me, and thing is my field of study in college were cults. They isolated us from my family, and my friends where I only had CoC friends. A year ago, July we left the church with my sister and a friend of mine that is pastor at my old churches help. After we left, they told us we were going to Hell because we lost our salvation. The people at church have completely shunned us except my best friend and her family who only go to them because they do not know how they really are. They do not go to meetings, or any activities with the church, and nothing has changed between them and me since we left.
It's so interesting seeing that the legalism is still affecting churches today! Some of the ICOC groups renamed themselves to separate from the legalism. I will say there are some solid folks and fellowships out there genuinely following Jesus, there are those like all denominations that are closer to the law rather than grace. Praying you cling to Jesus! People can make all kinds of mistakes and it stinks! Sorry you had to experience what you did! I was a part of the same fellowship of churches growing up in the 90s and 00s. My father was a church leader for a while then stepped away because he was getting persecuted for just preaching Jesus and not a list of do's and don'ts. Stay prayed up! Jesus is coming soon :)
Thank you Sweet Dear One for responding to me personally. I will cherish this response as a direct message from God ALMIGHTY. Technology is a wonderful tool to sharing information, love and hope. You are a powerful young lady. I would love to keep in touch forever. Love, Ms. Janice
I just want to give you a hug! You've been through too much scheiss. The cult leaders were persecuting their own members. The "persecuting" from the families was just the cult's fear of losing members. That's not persecution, that's rescuing! I'm glad you're out of that abusive organization.
I understand when said you overtaken by a spirit. When i left the icc, I underwent heavy spiritual attack. Very controllling and manipulative members especially the leaders.
Damn. That is wild. I feel you when you said you don’t remember stuff (and are kind of glad you don’t.) My mom (17) was indoctrinated into a child marriage with my dad (19) they told her god wanted them to be together. That my dad was put here to preach. They were taught to spank us. Apparently there was ‘speaking in tongues’ and a lot of what you called ‘rebuking’ basically just screaming at people. There was writhing on the floor and begging and praying. They did the same thing too, deprived everyone of sleep. This shit is deliberate and methodical and it’s sickening, the people at the top of these cults. Eventually, it being a pretty small cult, it just kind of died out. The guy who ran it is off doing god knows what. I haven’t seen him since I was maybe 6 or 7. Fuck him. We’re 99% he was a malignant narcissist. It is wild out here. Congrats to you for getting out, it’s hard to question when you’ve been indoctrinated ✊✊✊
I was in ICOC for 10 years, it was so hard to leave when you are brainwashed. I understend everithing what are you talking...when I left I coudn't even put to words what I have been through.
Wow 10 years! Amazing news that you are free! I feel that. For some of the things we’ve gone through there are truly no words to describe it. You’d only understand if you’ve been through it yourself.
@@shelbygundrey wow thank you, very encouraging, just one thing if I may. Christianity is not in synoptic gospels, Jesus said stuff preparing disciples for his death. Paul is the one who taught Christianity in the epistles, Jesus came to him with new teaching in acts.
hi. i'm the one who 'catch' by them 7 years ago. i'm from Indonesia and in this country they called GKDI (Gereja Kristus di Indonesia or in english named Christian church at Indonesia). I already leave this church. by the feeling that I got like isolated. I know that is the work of Holy Spirit.
I was in an AoG church for two years in college and my experiences sounded really similar to yours. I wish I hadn’t gotten sucked in and wasted two years of my life but thankfully I’m in a much better spot in my life
AoG as in Assemblies of God Churches? Did y’all believe in the full immersion baptism stuff as well? I believe I recall this being pentecostal. I’ll have to read more about it for sure. I am so so glad you are out of there and doing better now. The more time that passes by, the better it gets for real. Thank you so much for listening.🙏
@@shelbygundreyyeah same “you’re not a member of the church until you get baptized” shtick. The specific church was called Chi Alpha but they called it a different name, probably to cover up the real organization so people don’t get discouraged to join lol
Thanks for sharing, I’m a student and I had a series of bible studies with some of the ICC members and was about to join the ministry but they never told me the name of the church or larger group which was the ICC until the day before they were going to baptize so I researched the ministry because something about believing I wasn’t saved yet until I got baptized by them didn’t sit right with me. I was still set on joining until my mom got sick and I spent all night at the ER praying for her and ultimately the Lord led me to the decision to not join after much prayer. Grateful the Lord opened my eyes and I still feel bad for ignoring their messages but I was certain it would just lead to them trying to convince me. I’m probably going to still see the members on campus so I’m not quite sure on what do to do.
Thank you for listening! So sorry you had to go through those studies. Even just those can throw people off a lot. It says a lot as well that they never even told you the name of the church until right before you were supposed to be inducted into the group. My group would do similar things. It’s very deceitful and not spiritual. If there wasn’t any shame or anything to hide, they would of shared the name, their website, everything! Right away. I’m glad your prayers led you to this decision. Please do not feel bad for ignoring them. I recommend avoiding them completely if you see them on campus. I wish you and your mother the best and for good health for you both.🙏
Wow! First of all I’m sorry that you got caught up with this group. Your story is VERY similar to my own. I’d be interested in hearing how you view god now in light of your experience with the cult.
Thank you so much and also for listening. I’m so sorry you had to go through something like this as well. Glad you are also out! Right now I wouldn’t say I view God in a different light. I view people in a different light. Idk if that makes sense haha.
Good video. Curious, what do you do now in regards to church? Do you go somewhere? I wonder about people who have left. If they just stop believing. Enjoy
Thank you for listening! I do not attend church as of right now. I’d be totally fine with being present in a regular service because nothing would ever compare to the hell I was a part of. But church isn’t something I’m interested in right now. I believe in some ways.
I am so sad to hear what you went through and the pressure you felt from people rather than anything from the love of Christ in your life 2 Corinthians 5:14-15. It is definitely not okay to peer pressure any grown adult to do anything they are uncomfortable with. If someone doesn’t want to live for christ or live by the scriptures that’s totally free will up to that person. I’m so sorry for what you’ve experienced 😢 Community is helpful spiritually but should never come from force from people. Acts 4:19-20, Galatians 1:10, 1 Corinthians 12:12-24.
😂😂😂 classic coming from you! Girl who accused and attacked me while I was in the ICC🤣 Girl, bye! You AND ya ignorant husband are part of the problem. 👋🏼🚩
Thank you for listening and for your comment. Thanks for also including scriptures. I know these might help anyone else who might be in one of these groups who are sifting through the comments. You are very right with what you’ve said. Thank you.🙏
@@TheAnee18 Kianee.. I apologized to you and owned up for my part I hurt you and thought you and I got resolved after church since you didn't share anything else with me afterwards. What about my husband is ignorant? I'd love to hear your side if you'd like to contact me. Let me know.
@@DCjam12 They made me sign it a little more than a year in. It was something new they were implementing to scare people into being quiet after “falling away” because people who had previously left were trying to expose the lead guy and help other people leave. When they made us sign it they pulled everyone in the church together on zoom and had us sign the paper whilst online before having a chance to really read it. We also had our church leaders by us in person watching all of us. If someone was hesitant to sign it or didn’t want to sign it the leaders were prepared to have a “hard talk” with whoever it was. Which really meant getting rebuked or yelled at.
Hi, so this is a splinter group from the ICC/ICOC -- what does that mean? Like, they broke away from them and started their own thing, or they were part of it but were "worse" than the other two groups? I ask because I am (and have been for wayyyy too long) writing a book on the ICOC and I'm trying to figure out what you're saying.
Hi, thank you for watching! Yes so the guy who created my group used to be in the ICC/ICOC and got kicked out (I’ve heard different stories) so he made his own group with the same teachings. Even though same teachings, we were taught ICC and ICOC were wrong and we were the only ones right.
@@shelbygundrey So basically he tried to create his own movement from an existing movement, than came from an existing movement, that came from an existing movement. Do you know around what year this group broke off and started?
@@shelbygundrey I began, in 2017 or so, to think something was rather off about what was going on in my congregation. I started to believe that our evangelist wanted us to be completely devoted to one another -- and ONLY our congregation. Meaning, any fellowship within the ICOC was fine to visit for like, a day or so (I'm not being literal but I sure perceived it to be so), but then stay any longer and you're not really part of the fellowship. And proof of believing that to be true came when I tried to fellowship with the mainline COC. So, had I not experienced that, I probably would think your experience was just a subjective misinterpretation of facts. But after experiencing it from that point until I left, I know that isn't the case at all.
They tried to get me and I’ve been just waisting the guys time 😆. Also what do you mean by you “get in trouble?” Like verbally? You’re over 18 I wanna assume and they have no legal authority over you or power/jurisdiction. On top of that, if they put hands on you, that’s just a quick call to the cops. At the end of the day, they are still just people but they have NO AUTHORITY. I’m happy you left!
Not saying this is true but this comment and account looks quite similar to bait put out by members of my old group. Might be paranoid and wrong or might be right. But I will not share any of these details unfortunately. Sorry. And kicked out? Interesting. I’m interested in hearing more. I personally wasn’t kicked out, I left on my own.
@@shelbygundrey my bad I had to change the name so no one recognized me if they read my comment lol I was baptized in 2015 and left the church in 2019, I came back last year but was kicked out 6 months later. I was just curious as to why they had you sign that I've never heard of that happening before.
As many faults as th icc and icoc have(and there are many) I truly believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and this organization's capacity to do good. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with them. But the focus truly should be on Jesus Christ and I hope you find a Church of true believers who help you in your faith. I hope you are not disheartened and I wish you a life of love peace and fulfillment.
This is not even close to everything. Really just a piece. Also didn’t want to give too many specifics away. Didn’t want to start throwing in specific teachings and scriptures. Don’t want to cause a debate. Just want to tell a part of the story.
(There is a moment in this video where I formulated a sentence that doesn’t make any sense at all but it’s super funny. I’m aware of my fumble lol.)
Also if you are a part of ICC/ICOC here to defend your group, I will either delete your comments or roast the nuts off you. I know all y’alls tea as well.😘
I was in the ICOC in the mid 90's, thanks for making this video, the more people who are aware the better. You never know who this might help one day..
@@505Lucky7 thank you I appreciate it! Glad you are also out!
Please share more. I'm a Mom with a daughter that's been Brainwashed for 26yrs in ICOC. I just found out last year 2023. Since I let her know that I know all hell has broken loose. She's vicious and mean as hell to me trying to protect the cult. I'm your fan now. Keep spilling the beans, it's great mental health therapy
Thank you so much for listening to some of my story. I’m sure I will share more in the future.
Let me just say that you are such an amazing mother for trying to help her. So so so amazing. The day that she leaves she will look back and be so grateful. I can say this as someone who was in the same spot as her who eventually left and reconnected with my parents (I wasn’t a part of my group for as long as her but definitely had the same mindset).
Unfortunately the viciousness comes from the extreme brainwashing she’s been through. The ICOC has taught her to expect “persecution” from even the closest of family members. When my parents tried to get me out and called my group a cult, I saw it as them trying to take me away from God. And being taken away from God meant an eternity in hell. It sounds too crazy to be true, but it is so real to us experiencing it. I was so mean to my parents when they’d do that as a defense. We’re told to stand up to persecution. Show whoever is persecuting us that we stand with God. And that when we do that, we are actually setting the true spiritual standard for our loved ones (in reality we are pushing them farther away).
I recommend reading online about ways to support family members who are inside a cult. When trying to help someone on the inside who is brainwashed, we have to be careful with our words. One wrong word can switch the mood very quickly. It’s tricky.
Feel free to message me on facebook if there is anything else I can do to help. I hope your daughter gets out soon.🙏
Hey Shelby, random internet person here. Found your video because I'm a Christian and being in grad school I've been able to talk to an ICC person (and other cult people) and just wanna know more about them so I can hopefully nudge that person out of there.
I commend you for your courage to put this video out there, you're obviously a very smart and brave person. It makes me especially sad (and mad) that you experienced all this at the hands of people taking up the name of Christ. Salvation is a free gift from God, not a club to threaten people with. The Bible encourages independent thinking, debate, family time, secular work, and all sorts of things this group is afraid of. (not to mention compassion, gentleness, and love)
Anyways, thanks for your video. It definitely gives me some perspective on what being in the group is like. I am praying for your ongoing growth and recovery from being in that group. God bless you.
Thank you so much for listening and also for your amazing heart to help people obtain their freedom. I had people like you come up and try to learn more to help me as well, and it probably didn’t seem like they did much to help me from their perspective, but it truly did A LOT. I’d think about the discussions I’d have with those people frequently throughout the days. It was one of many parts of the build up to leaving.
You are very right. The bible preaches something very different than what they interpret and twist it to be.
Thank you.🙏
@@shelbygundrey Glad to see so many replies, sad to admit how fun it was for children. This whole thing was just a scheme hinging on the lie of disciple and Christian being synonymous. All organized religion is dangerous because men takeover desiring personal tyranny. Therefore go and make disciples are not commanded to us, Jesus said greatest commandment is Mathew 22:35-40, Mark 12:28 and Luke 10:27. Paul (Saul) taught same thing in Christianity such as Ephesians 4:32 and Romans 12:10 repeated by other epistles such as 1 Peter 4:8 and 1 John 4:20. The entire Holy Bible is relevant however the gospels and acts are narratives written for us but not to us. Epistles on the other hand definitely written to us or all who believe in death and resurrection of Jesus. That is the difference between disciples and Christians and ICC/ICOC misinforms way too much.
All anyone can really do with any cult is plant seeds of doubt & hope they grow! It takes time but eventually most do 😉
Thank you for speaking out. I left the ICC this past February and you sharing your experience is extremely powerful. I hope all is well.
@@TrueDisciple115 Thank you for listening and I’m so happy you are also free!🙏
Hey Shelby. I want you to know that you do not have to apologize to those people. This is a very common feeling that people who have suffered trauma have, the fear that you have let the abuser's down, and that they will be upset or angry with you. What you need to understand is that they no longer have any power over you. They can not gaslight you, they can not demean who you are, because you have value, something that they tried to take away from you. And it helps to remind yourself every day of this. I'm glad you escaped, and I hope you give yourself time to heal.
Thank you so much for listening and for your kind words. They are extremely helpful and uplifting. It’s can be hard for me because I’m a natural people pleaser haha (probs why I was an easy convert), and now I got all this in my head as well. I’ll overcome it! I’m confident.😁 Thank you again, wish you nothing but the best.🙏
Shelby, thanks so much for sharing your story. I was a member of the ICC, before it splintered off into the ICOC. My story had a lot of similarities to yours. I admire you so much for sharing in such a real way. My experiences with this group in Palm Springs messed me up so badly that I became an agnostics.
@@melindadaun2308 Thank you for also sharing! I am so glad you are out. I can relate!
thank you so much for sharing your story. i think this will help others immeasurably. i know you feel embarrassed, but i don’t think there’s any reason to. the tactics these groups use are so harmful and so hard to fight against. i’m really proud of you for getting out and for being back in school :) you’re doing so so great
Thank you, I appreciate your message!🫂
So sad!!! I can relate!! Thank you for your brave testimony! Icoc is a mess❤️
Indeed it is! Thank you for listening, glad you are out!❤️🔥
Three simple rules that greatly improved happiness:
1. Simply identify who are Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Borderlines, and anyone Pathological. DO YOUR RESEARCH.
2. Identify and map physical locations where these beings are found. SEE WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED.
3. AVOID THOSE LOCATIONS.
Once you know where they are located, simply go where they are not. Be where they are not. Reject their invitations ALWAYS. This simple set of rules will greatly improve happiness and safety. It’s really that simple. The only real "mental issue" you may have is EMPATHY. Empathy gets abused, manipulated and turned against you by these soulless entities. Increase your distance every chance you get. You only lose out when you are within their proximity, no matter how appealing they appear.
Avoid and deny, good strategy!
Splinter group is called Elevate Church and the founder is Matt Wirgler
Matt and Terry Wirgler!?? Omg! I used to adore them! I was in their Bible Talk & I was there when he proposed to her. Of course I attended the wedding. WOW what a trip
@@alison2649 Oh wow. That’s crazy to me. She is not a part of this group. Only him. Are you still a part of any of these groups?
@@shelbygundrey Oh no definitely not. I “fell away “ like 25 years ago.
@@alison2649 Oh okay good to hear!!
Thank you for sharing. FYI ICC (International Christian Church) is a split from ICOC (International Church of Christ) because ICOC rejected Kim McKean manipulative practices around 2000. Kip McKean then formed ICC. ICOC is reforming but there are still remnants of Kip’s teaching still in the ICOC. I’m a seminary student and I’d love to do an interview with you for my report if you are interested. I would honor your NDA.
@@glorywolf812 Correct! Thank you for the offer. I am not sure if I’d be okay with an interview as of where I am at right now, but I can point you to other people who have left the same group as me if you’d like.🙏
I was in the Indianapolis branch of the church myself. Was in in for right about two years and I didn't experience it as bad as you did given that I have a wife and wasn't controlable like that. But I know that brothers and sisters household were all very controlled. I pray that you are doing better mentally and getting stronger. I sense your heart and it's so valuable, please don't let them change you. I have to fight myself to not resent them on a regular basis. If it wasn't for the love I have for Jesus and wanting to do right by Him I would be in so much trouble. So I pray that you won't let them mess that up for you, don't let them take away your relationship with Christ our Lord. He is what matters, not an organization like the ICC or ICOC. Appreciate your heart my friend. Now you know what to NOT want in a church. I interviewed the lead pastor at the church I go to now for 2 hrs before finally attending. It's ok to do stuff like that. Praying for you amd look forward to more...thanx
Thank you for listening and for sharing yourself bro, I appreciate it.🙏 I am so glad you are also out of that environment! Everything you said was very important not only for me but anyone watching this video looking through comments. I wish you the best.🙌
You are an amazing person and great speaker!Thank you for your courage to share your experience.
@@joecontreras5273 Thank you for listening!🙏
Thank you for sharing!!❤ I’m dealing with my daughter and this group now. Glad you got out 😊
Of course! Thank you so much for listening.🙏❤️ Wishing the best for you and your daughter.
I was in the ICC cult for a few years, well done for leaving something similar , any church that wants a NDA is madness Jesus never did that, I'm curious as why they would do that it seems crazy ?
So glad you are also out.🙏 Right? All an NDA does is hide things. Not very biblical at all! I know why they had us do it, but I won’t share those details haha.
@@shelbygundrey Haha indeed, the fact a group saying they are a church uses NDA tells me all I need to know.
Shelby you seem so sweet. This happened to me in a splinter group of LSM another bad group. I feel for you, thank you for sharing this !
Thank you so much. I am sorry that happened to you and I’m glad you are also free. :)
Glad you got out safely! God bless you!
Thank you so much🙏
Thanks for sharing your story. I was brought into a cult by my mother at age 9, brainwashing is a real thing. Once it happens hard to get it out of your mind, even years later. Don't feel embarrased, it happens to all walks of life even very intellegent people. Keep working at getting out of that mindset you'll be ok. I left when I was 21 and my mother is still in she hasn't spoken to me in 44 years. It hurts but I will never go back to the cult. God bless you!! You should be proud of yourself you were smart enough to get out. ❤😊
I joined CoC 12 years ago 12 years ago at 38 years old and brought my daughter with me, and thing is my field of study in college were cults. They isolated us from my family, and my friends where I only had CoC friends. A year ago, July we left the church with my sister and a friend of mine that is pastor at my old churches help. After we left, they told us we were going to Hell because we lost our salvation. The people at church have completely shunned us except my best friend and her family who only go to them because they do not know how they really are. They do not go to meetings, or any activities with the church, and nothing has changed between them and me since we left.
Oh my goodness. Thank you for sharing as well. Happy you are also out.🙏
@@JamesJohnson-gb3kbThank you for sharing🙏
@shelbygundrey Yes I am out! ❤️
Aww shelbs Im just glad you’re safe love 🫶🏼✨💙
Thanks fam🙏❤️
It's so interesting seeing that the legalism is still affecting churches today! Some of the ICOC groups renamed themselves to separate from the legalism. I will say there are some solid folks and fellowships out there genuinely following Jesus, there are those like all denominations that are closer to the law rather than grace. Praying you cling to Jesus! People can make all kinds of mistakes and it stinks! Sorry you had to experience what you did! I was a part of the same fellowship of churches growing up in the 90s and 00s. My father was a church leader for a while then stepped away because he was getting persecuted for just preaching Jesus and not a list of do's and don'ts. Stay prayed up! Jesus is coming soon :)
I agree! Thank you for listening! I wish you the best.
Thank you Sweet Dear One for responding to me personally. I will cherish this response as a direct message from God ALMIGHTY. Technology is a wonderful tool to sharing information, love and hope. You are a powerful young lady. I would love to keep in touch forever.
Love,
Ms. Janice
I just want to give you a hug! You've been through too much scheiss. The cult leaders were persecuting their own members. The "persecuting" from the families was just the cult's fear of losing members. That's not persecution, that's rescuing! I'm glad you're out of that abusive organization.
Thank you!🫂 Very true!
I understand when said you overtaken by a spirit. When i left the icc, I underwent heavy spiritual attack. Very controllling and manipulative members especially the leaders.
Damn. That is wild. I feel you when you said you don’t remember stuff (and are kind of glad you don’t.) My mom (17) was indoctrinated into a child marriage with my dad (19) they told her god wanted them to be together. That my dad was put here to preach. They were taught to spank us. Apparently there was ‘speaking in tongues’ and a lot of what you called ‘rebuking’ basically just screaming at people. There was writhing on the floor and begging and praying. They did the same thing too, deprived everyone of sleep. This shit is deliberate and methodical and it’s sickening, the people at the top of these cults. Eventually, it being a pretty small cult, it just kind of died out. The guy who ran it is off doing god knows what. I haven’t seen him since I was maybe 6 or 7. Fuck him. We’re 99% he was a malignant narcissist. It is wild out here. Congrats to you for getting out, it’s hard to question when you’ve been indoctrinated
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That's so much for sharing this amazing story
Of course, thank you so much for listening I appreciate it.🙏
I was in ICOC for 10 years, it was so hard to leave when you are brainwashed. I understend everithing what are you talking...when I left I coudn't even put to words what I have been through.
Wow 10 years! Amazing news that you are free! I feel that. For some of the things we’ve gone through there are truly no words to describe it. You’d only understand if you’ve been through it yourself.
Good for you, welcome back to Arizona. God bless you, from phoenix myself and related to everything you said.
Thank you so much! Arizona sticks together! Glad you are also out.🙏
@@shelbygundrey wow thank you, very encouraging, just one thing if I may. Christianity is not in synoptic gospels, Jesus said stuff preparing disciples for his death. Paul is the one who taught Christianity in the epistles, Jesus came to him with new teaching in acts.
I was in the ICC for two and a half years before I decided it was best to leave
@@brentbaker2373 I am very happy you are out.🙏
@@shelbygundrey thanks, same here. Always thought they were too controlling
I lost my fiancé to this group last year… this gives me hope that he will just open his eyes one day and walk away
@@sierragriggs-i9c So sorry to hear that. It’s only a matter of time. He will get out.🙏
hi. i'm the one who 'catch' by them 7 years ago. i'm from Indonesia and in this country they called GKDI (Gereja Kristus di Indonesia or in english named Christian church at Indonesia). I already leave this church. by the feeling that I got like isolated. I know that is the work of Holy Spirit.
@@Pluviophile-z2d Glad you are out!🙏
I was in an AoG church for two years in college and my experiences sounded really similar to yours. I wish I hadn’t gotten sucked in and wasted two years of my life but thankfully I’m in a much better spot in my life
AoG as in Assemblies of God Churches? Did y’all believe in the full immersion baptism stuff as well? I believe I recall this being pentecostal. I’ll have to read more about it for sure. I am so so glad you are out of there and doing better now. The more time that passes by, the better it gets for real. Thank you so much for listening.🙏
@@shelbygundreyyeah same “you’re not a member of the church until you get baptized” shtick. The specific church was called Chi Alpha but they called it a different name, probably to cover up the real organization so people don’t get discouraged to join lol
Thanks for sharing, I’m a student and I had a series of bible studies with some of the ICC members and was about to join the ministry but they never told me the name of the church or larger group which was the ICC until the day before they were going to baptize so I researched the ministry because something about believing I wasn’t saved yet until I got baptized by them didn’t sit right with me. I was still set on joining until my mom got sick and I spent all night at the ER praying for her and ultimately the Lord led me to the decision to not join after much prayer. Grateful the Lord opened my eyes and I still feel bad for ignoring their messages but I was certain it would just lead to them trying to convince me. I’m probably going to still see the members on campus so I’m not quite sure on what do to do.
Thank you for listening! So sorry you had to go through those studies. Even just those can throw people off a lot. It says a lot as well that they never even told you the name of the church until right before you were supposed to be inducted into the group. My group would do similar things. It’s very deceitful and not spiritual. If there wasn’t any shame or anything to hide, they would of shared the name, their website, everything! Right away. I’m glad your prayers led you to this decision. Please do not feel bad for ignoring them. I recommend avoiding them completely if you see them on campus. I wish you and your mother the best and for good health for you both.🙏
Wow! First of all I’m sorry that you got caught up with this group. Your story is VERY similar to my own. I’d be interested in hearing how you view god now in light of your experience with the cult.
Thank you so much and also for listening. I’m so sorry you had to go through something like this as well. Glad you are also out! Right now I wouldn’t say I view God in a different light. I view people in a different light. Idk if that makes sense haha.
You're very brave, Shelby. May you be happy, may you be blessed. P.S. You might consider finding an attorney. Sounds like these people abused you.
Good video. Curious, what do you do now in regards to church? Do you go somewhere? I wonder about people who have left. If they just stop believing. Enjoy
Thank you for listening! I do not attend church as of right now. I’d be totally fine with being present in a regular service because nothing would ever compare to the hell I was a part of. But church isn’t something I’m interested in right now. I believe in some ways.
I am so sad to hear what you went through and the pressure you felt from people rather than anything from the love of Christ in your life 2 Corinthians 5:14-15. It is definitely not okay to peer pressure any grown adult to do anything they are uncomfortable with. If someone doesn’t want to live for christ or live by the scriptures that’s totally free will up to that person. I’m so sorry for what you’ve experienced 😢
Community is helpful spiritually but should never come from force from people. Acts 4:19-20, Galatians 1:10, 1 Corinthians 12:12-24.
😂😂😂 classic coming from you! Girl who accused and attacked me while I was in the ICC🤣 Girl, bye! You AND ya ignorant husband are part of the problem. 👋🏼🚩
Thank you for listening and for your comment. Thanks for also including scriptures. I know these might help anyone else who might be in one of these groups who are sifting through the comments. You are very right with what you’ve said. Thank you.🙏
@@TheAnee18 Kianee.. I apologized to you and owned up for my part I hurt you and thought you and I got resolved after church since you didn't share anything else with me afterwards. What about my husband is ignorant? I'd love to hear your side if you'd like to contact me. Let me know.
I'm so sorry you suffered thru this. This group is anti-Christian. Christianity is about freedom and I hope you're enjoying this now. Take care.
Thank you! You as well!
What ever you signed won’t hold up in court.
@@LauraChandler-n5d I sure hope haha.
Hi I appreciate you sharing your story but I am wondering if you still follow the Bible or do you still believe in God??
@@alejandroharo6629 I still have belief! In my deconstruction process I am uncertain of the bible as of now.
Did they force you to sign an NDA before joining their church?
@@DCjam12 They made me sign it a little more than a year in. It was something new they were implementing to scare people into being quiet after “falling away” because people who had previously left were trying to expose the lead guy and help other people leave. When they made us sign it they pulled everyone in the church together on zoom and had us sign the paper whilst online before having a chance to really read it. We also had our church leaders by us in person watching all of us. If someone was hesitant to sign it or didn’t want to sign it the leaders were prepared to have a “hard talk” with whoever it was. Which really meant getting rebuked or yelled at.
@@shelbygundrey Wow. That is just wild. Thank you for sharing this information.
Hi, so this is a splinter group from the ICC/ICOC -- what does that mean? Like, they broke away from them and started their own thing, or they were part of it but were "worse" than the other two groups? I ask because I am (and have been for wayyyy too long) writing a book on the ICOC and I'm trying to figure out what you're saying.
Hi, thank you for watching! Yes so the guy who created my group used to be in the ICC/ICOC and got kicked out (I’ve heard different stories) so he made his own group with the same teachings.
Even though same teachings, we were taught ICC and ICOC were wrong and we were the only ones right.
@@shelbygundrey So basically he tried to create his own movement from an existing movement, than came from an existing movement, that came from an existing movement.
Do you know around what year this group broke off and started?
@@NewTheses Lol yepppp!!
@@shelbygundrey I began, in 2017 or so, to think something was rather off about what was going on in my congregation. I started to believe that our evangelist wanted us to be completely devoted to one another -- and ONLY our congregation. Meaning, any fellowship within the ICOC was fine to visit for like, a day or so (I'm not being literal but I sure perceived it to be so), but then stay any longer and you're not really part of the fellowship. And proof of believing that to be true came when I tried to fellowship with the mainline COC. So, had I not experienced that, I probably would think your experience was just a subjective misinterpretation of facts. But after experiencing it from that point until I left, I know that isn't the case at all.
They tried to get me and I’ve been just waisting the guys time 😆. Also what do you mean by you “get in trouble?” Like verbally? You’re over 18 I wanna assume and they have no legal authority over you or power/jurisdiction. On top of that, if they put hands on you, that’s just a quick call to the cops. At the end of the day, they are still just people but they have NO AUTHORITY. I’m happy you left!
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What happened that you had to sign a NDA? I was also part of the ICC before they kicked me out.
Not saying this is true but this comment and account looks quite similar to bait put out by members of my old group. Might be paranoid and wrong or might be right. But I will not share any of these details unfortunately. Sorry. And kicked out? Interesting. I’m interested in hearing more. I personally wasn’t kicked out, I left on my own.
@@shelbygundrey my bad I had to change the name so no one recognized me if they read my comment lol I was baptized in 2015 and left the church in 2019, I came back last year but was kicked out 6 months later. I was just curious as to why they had you sign that I've never heard of that happening before.
5:41 theres def a demonic spirit behind it
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Fuck that
Preach lol🙌
As many faults as th icc and icoc have(and there are many) I truly believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and this organization's capacity to do good. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with them. But the focus truly should be on Jesus Christ and I hope you find a Church of true believers who help you in your faith. I hope you are not disheartened and I wish you a life of love peace and fulfillment.