PIGMENTS VS PASTELS & Varnish Yes or No? Testing and Review!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- Jay has entered the wonderful world of pigment powders! He tries store bought versus pastels and do you even need to varnish? Let's find out! We have new videos every Monday, Wednesday and Friday! We're streaming Monday-Saturday starting at 9PM CST!! JOIN USSSS! Thanks for watching!
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I'm a model railroader, first and foremost, and my first weathering efforts were with pastel chalks. I found that leaving them uncoated wasn't a problem, as handling them, over time, just further blended the weathering. Those first models are now 30+ years old, and while there's a whole pile of issues with them due to my skills, or lack thereof, back then, the pastel "dust" has held up very nicely.
I'm still using my original box of pastels, and have added to them boxes of rust / earth shades and grey scale ones. I also now use panpastels, oil paint, artist acrylics, and gouache paints, to weather. For "crud", my favorite trick is using oil paint, unthinned, and adding some matching chalk or panpastel dust to it.
... did you try just rubbing Cheeto dust on everything though? The fans demand it.
Sounds like a job for Brent from Goobertown Hobbies!
That ending is cool. Glad to see peoples proud work!
Now where have I seen you
Great to see my work up there with such fantastic talent! Thanks for the shout out and amazing vid as usual, keep up the good work!!!
I had heard of this technique for years from old-timers but the first video i saw of it was from Midwinter Minis. Guy did similar tests wi similar conclusions, although he also added hairspray as a fixative among the options, which ended being his favoritee, worth a try. My takaway seems to be:
* Grind the pastels more. No, even more. A bit more than that. Yeah, about there.
* Finish almost completely the piece.
* Gloss then matt varnish.
* Add pigments.
* Seal them wwit matt as shown.
* Add any water-like effects (blood, toxic, water, gloss-coat stuff like gems, etc.) because this before the matt varnish will get killed
* Maybe add a tiny bit final pigment effects
Sounds right to me at least
Hey Jay, I always go up a shade on my homemade pigments. That way, when they darken under the varnish, I have the exact color I originally wanted. This works great when you have a big box of pastels.
Brilliant +1
Excellent info as usual. Thank you!!
This video would've been perfect for when I based all my seraphon army a year ago! oh well, thanks for the information for future projects!
By far the best tuto on pigment powders! Thank you guys, that was awesome!
You guys bring soo much good to the world ! ( the modeling world, that is! ..who cares about other worlds!!)
Good luck you boys!
Amazing tutorial, thank you so much!
Gunna give pigments a try... now more confidently.
Very scientific. I love your approach.
snagging some chalk pastels asap, thanks for the tip! awesome alternative to the costly pigments
Those terrain pieces look great!
Thanks. I don't have pigments but did buy a set of pastels to try exactly this, so you saved me some time 😁
Videos like this are the reason I like your channel
Thank you for the video !
You can put it in a folded piece of paper, give it one or two hits with a glass or a bottle, and then roll the bottle back n forth. creates super fine powder :)
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
New intro is amazing
I love my Krylon spray stuff, I use their Camo flat primer, that fixit looks neat
Looks like fun!
A bonus simple use of the Krylon fixit that is nice is to flock large bases. You can spray where you want then dip or pour the flock and will stick pretty well.
Awesome video, I love the look that pigments can give in certain situations, but I have/am a little scared on using them, as we use our mini's in games, not just for displays.... your video was awesome and informative, willing to give it a go now .... maybe... lol , but it did get me closer to making the dive into using them!
I bought some red natural pigments a while back, Iron Oxide and Red Ochre in particular. Haven't had a chance to mix anything up yet but I'm pretty excited to get started. There are a few websitres that sell 5oz pouches of pigments for decent prices.
Love the way you pronounced my nickname Kubiszon, love it :D
Thanks for showing us the base coat, I'm definitely going to try using that technique for my corroded paint schemes. You should try again at some point using actual artists grade pastels, like Unison or Sennelier. You used basic cheap student grade pastels which will have much less pigment than a high quality pastel, and artist grade pastels tend to be much softer due to the high pigment which should make it easier to get a fine powder. Pure pigment powder would also be interesting to try but is an inhalation risk due to the ultra fine particles so might not be easy for anyone without proper PPE.
I have been grinding pastels and using them for years; roughly crush them like you did then finish them off with an old electric spice grinder; been using fixatif as well
Maybe grind the sticks on a fine sand paper.
Try using a coffee grinder to powder the pigments. Great video btw!
Another great video! Quick, semi-related question: I’ve recently gotten into airbrushing and even with all the anti-clog measures I’ve learned, the Stynylrez primer still clogs my Patriot 105. Do you have any advice for preventing this or efficiently cleaning the needle?
I should think you could get a finer and more consistent powder simply by using a pestle & mortar. I don't think pigment powders a rip-off - there's really quite a lot of it in each pot - but I'd be inclined to buy a cheap set of pastels if I only needed tiny quantities.
All you gotta do to get it a consistent grain is to use a sieve.
A morter and pestle sounds like a lot of work to me, a few taps with a hammer made them totally usable as pigments after only a couple seconds.
So glad you showed how you painted those walls.. I think you broke the record for "Most painting tips per minute" with just that sidenote! Instasubbed.
Another good hobby tip for pastels is to order a pack of plastic portion cups with lids to store all the pastels. I ground them up and it's great for them and they don't stick to the inside of a sealable sandwich bag like you used. Good video also when Nick does that voice I can see him in a striped vest and straw boaters hat twirling his mustache sinisterly (if he had one)
I mean at this point if you just crush more carefully and consistently (bigger bag + rolling pin is my guess) you're well on your way to never buying the specialized products!
Hi mate love the content glad I found this one - if I was going for a mars theme base just bought some kromlech rust powders but I’m not sure how to set it as the legs in the minis are metallic and I want to get the dust effect in the base and the legs so going off your suggestion would isopropyl be the best idea as I think I actually want the pigment to move into natural positions but still look dry on completion - I seen another guide issuing a powder setting enamel I don’t know if you have any experience with this ?
Great video! I’m considering trying the pastel method out and I don’t have an airbrush. Will applying varnish with a paintbrush remove the pigments? Or do I need to buy a varnish in a spray can?
Have you ever tried pan pastels? I've used them for polymer clay, but not yet for painted models. If you want to keep trying to use the cheaper art pastels (and maybe blend custom color mixes), you can get a mini food processor or spice grinder for pretty cheap and it might chop up the pastels better than a bag&hammer. It worked pretty well when I tried it, but I already had the sacrificial art food processor, and I didn't have the Vallejo pigments to compare.
My method has been spraying a bit of alcohol through the airbrush. Changes almost nothing about the look, keeps it all secure.
2 years late, but Im going to try anyway:
I was thinking this too. Does the air blow the pigments away too much?
Only issue I saw was there was little to no feathering. Which is something pre grounded powder will excel at. Like you said because consistancy. It's like comparing some craft acrylics to vallejo, but painting out of the bottle with both.
Can you do a video on using mineral spirits to make your own washes? The way you used it on your necrons in your week long painting video was interesting showing the ability for it to seep into the recesses.
I sure can! adding it to the list.
@@EonsOfBattle thanks! loving the content, really helping me with the hobby. The nostalgia videos as well are great, even though I wasn't alive/ in the hobby when the miniatures came out it's great to see the legacy. Keep it up!
You can use a pestle and mortar to grind the pigments to your heart content, making it as fine as the "professional" ones.
New graphics! Nice work!
thanks! we worked hard on those
@@EonsOfBattle Now you have time to write more Mark Hamill fan fiction! And fix my patreon level on the videos, ya noobs!
You have been moved up via executive order! And so because you paid for it!
This is interesting, but I've also heard that soft vs hard pastels have a different result on models, with hard pastels having less pigment but more binder, and that they perform closer to weathering powders in some ways. I'm also curious about using some of the colored pastels (i.e., not obviously rust and dirt colored) can be used to create the look of faded paint by mixing colors close to the base coat on colored parts. I know, I know, that's scope creep. But I'm curious!
Been wanting to get some dry pigments, but havent been too fond of the price. Never thought of pastels, but Im definitely gonna try crushing up my own pigments!! Im gonna get a cheap mortar and pestle, i think that will get them crushed up really well.
I just did this. Got a set from Walmart for abt $6 and made some cool ones.
Please, make once a meme video, I love your humour and you are my favourite mini-painter yt channel just because of those jokes xD
You could always get a small spice/coffee grinder to get a finer pigment from the pastels
Only difficulty with that is the cleaning but arguably if you're only likely to use a couple of colours you could just buy several/reuse empty salt or pepper grinders for each colour and fill them with broken up pastels
Really cool! Gonna crush some pastels :)
I grind my pastels down on wet dry paper, quality wise at this point they look and behave exactly the same as the weathering pigments at a fraction of the cost!
my secret weapon pigments cost 5$ and have lasted a long time! the same cost as most paints.
@@EonsOfBattle I buy 20 pastels for £2 so still quite a bit cheaper, though I’d need to buy 3 packs to get same quantity, but I come out with twenty tubs of pigment for the cost of two offical ones, down side is I do get colours im unlikely to ever use, but grinding em with wet dry paper gives that same fluffy quality
Basic mortar and pestle or an old coffee grinder does decent work breaking pigments down by hand if you don't want to go the pro products route.
Interesting, I hate been debating whether or not to sacrifice my pastels, might just do it now.
most people "grind" their pastels using sand paper. crushing it with a hammer is pretty crude. you can also mix the pastel powders to customize whatever color you're going for.
the hammer might be crude but it worked no fuss no mess no cleanup 10 seconds of taping.
It's a whole lot of hassle for a whole lot of worth it. :3
You should try higher quality pastels, might be just as expensive as dry pigments, but cheaper pastels have higher chalk to pigment ratio. Or you could add powdered chalk to dry pigments to dial down intensity and stretch them out longer.
Faber Castell makes quite high quality pastels ;)
What about Bragdon Enterprises pigments? They are some of the best I have used.
Doesn't putting the crackle paint and the texture on the plastic without priming it first kind of defeat the purpose of priming?
Nice video. I can tell that you're reading off a cue card or something, and looking off to stage right. In the future maybe you can move it further stage left.
I heard oil paints can "eat" through regular paints that you have painted and that you should put a protective matt coat in between types of paint-do you know if this is true?
yes, you do need to apply a varnish over your acrylic paints before you apply oils.
Is there a reason you didn't try any of the enamel pigment fixers?
You can use sand paper to just quickly get whatever amount of pigment you need from the chalk and then chalk goes back in the box
You could try grinding the pastels after a quick smash with a hammer or rolling pin. Use an old coffee grinder.
that sounds like a hassle to me, a few taps with the hammer made them totally usable as pigments, I got almost identical results with them in this experiment. no need to clean a coffee grinder 24 times.
Here I am a year later, finally giving in and just saying the hell with it and buying Vallejo pigments! Always a pleasure to watch your videos, keep up the great work!
I'm curious how different the results would be if you put the powders onto a sticky wet surface instead of varnishing after they're applied. Brush on a little matte medium and then pig mint away.
you definitely can do that and Vallejo makes a product called pigment binder for just that purpose.
@@EonsOfBattle Cool! How does the finished result compare?
Icy propyl? 🤔😁. Excellent test.
Do a video on how to paint large scale minatures
yep! I will add it to the list.
@@EonsOfBattle awesome! Im painting my first one and im terrified to mess it up
Can you not use those varnishes without an airbrush then?
better smaller result if you scratch with your blade the pigments from the block... and fill then in litte bootle...
No need to crush your pastel pencil with a hammer
I keep it stored in the original brick format, and when I need it I scrape it with a x-acto blade, or sand it with sandpaper.
I buy boxes of chalk pastels for £1 a box I buy 5-10 boxes at once, grind them in a junk coffee grinder I don't use and I have a lot of colours and product for pence, I only use pan pastels for figure bodies or faces combined with airbrush Vallejo Matt varnish or Mr super clear.
I don't see the point of high prices for items like this for weathering, I paid £10 once for just over an ounce of scatter from a well know Miniatures specialists and I got it in a small microwave food container the type you get takeaway in and inside was literally a sprinkling of dirt,fine grit and chopped dried grass... I can get that in my garden for free 😂😂 but we live and learn 👍🏻
In other words; if you spend a little more time at the crushing phase in the very beginning, in theory you can't tell the difference in usage. If you don't, there'll be some difference in usage and time spent applying, but probably nothing noticeable in the end outcome.
should have tried hair spray also jay :)
Sidewalk chalk, friends
Cheeto dust, why didn’t I think of that.
has anyone mentioned grinding pigments with mortar and pestle? Those are specific tools for grinding stuff up into powder and should still be available...though apart from science stores I don't know where else.
ah Dalton beat me to it lol
buying a mortar and pestle to grind up art pastels seems a little silly when pigment powders cost the same as regular model paint.
@@EonsOfBattle yeah but I'm kinda science-y in my hobbies and guys can never have too many tools! Can they?
An old trick we used to use at art college to fix pastels and charcoal was to use hair spray. Should work for mini's as long as you don't get them wet.
thats what I use cheapest hairspray possible
I liked how the pastels left a subtle look. Think the pigments was too elaborate.
I just mix matte medium and pigments then apply.
The thing you're missing from your terrain making kit is a coffee grinder...
i hate using weathering pigments that brush on, my reason is simple caz with time they could easily come off jus as easy as dust.
An old coffee grinder can make easy work of pastel chalks.
An old fashion mortar and pestle would work as well.
Have you (or anyone else) tried make up powders?
on my face yes! on my models no.
Ok, so, a flaw in the experiment. The consistency of the diy was up to your method.
If you had used a method such as a grinder to fully grind the pastels, they would have been more consistently powdered. Otherwise a pretty fair assessment.
true but I didn't want to do a bunch of work, and they were really darn close with just a few scrapes off the pastels vs the perfectly pulverized product.
@@EonsOfBattle I get that. I was just pointing out that; the reason you stated that the powders are better, was something that is controlled by you.
I will agree though, that bespoke weathering powders are stronger, effect wise.
Wouldn't a $10 electric coffee grinder finish off those pastels for you?
7:11 what does "wetcoat" mean? I'm not a native english speaker, and using google didn't help.
when airbrushing usually you want the paint to dry after a second or two of landing on the model but a wet coat is just spraying fast and getting the entire model saturated in wet varnish and allowing it to dry. It's a much thicker coat of paint.
@@EonsOfBattle thanks
Hi, unfortunately you make it sound as if pigments only exist in the dry pigments. I'm a huge fan of the pastel kind since some time back. Thanks for a nice show
A ball mill will get you better pulverized results.
Grind the pastel with a cheap coffee grinder, and i buy my pastel at Walmart 36 pastels for 8$.
I really, really prefer MIG pigments. Yeah, they're twice as expensive as Vallejo and five times as expensive as crushing colored chalk, but the results are astounding. MIG pigments get the name on the jar right 100% of the time. If you're just putting playable models on the table, then ground chalk is fine, but if you're making a diorama or display piece, then reach for those MIG's and you won't be sorry.
If you don't try any other MIG pigments, then at least buy a bottle of their Gunmetal Weathering and slap it on some of your fantasy rifles, or use it for edge weathering on a vehicle. It's absurd.
Don’t forget to like and comment to appease the almighty algorithm 😁👍🏼
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If you ever start observing Jay's eyebrows jumping up and down you can not stop and unsee them
What was lacking is the simple explanation.. pigments are what make syour paints have color. Paints are just pigments in a binder. Pastels are compressed pigments mixed with Acacia Sap and depending on the pigment calcium carbonate.
Also you can get pure pigments cheaper than pastels or vallejo stuff. Just go to dickblic and check for pure pigments used to make home made oil paints.
This comment is for the TH-cam algorithm.
bro you never blink lol
You don’t need a top coat to create a barrier to protect your miniature from your greasy Cheetos fingers if you don’t fuckin eat while to paint or play with the expensive miniature
You'll get the record for most adverts. 5 double adds for an 11min video... bravo!
lovely work, but gosh, you are frying your voice...
Ive watched high level historical modelers make pigments from pastels, they grind them with a cheese grater (the fine parmesan side) and then run them through a fine sieve. I think getting a finer product would make it identical to the stuff from the mini companies.