Is the Amber Traffic Light Too Short and Dangerous in the UK?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- Is there enough time to stop at traffic lights? In the UK the amber traffic light can lead to harsh and dangerous braking. In this video I time how long amber lasts for in different speed limits and I also time how long it takes to stop a car with safe levels of braking and emergency levels of braking.
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This video is a guide intended to help people who are learning to drive with a driving instructor in the UK, it is by no means a replacement for driving lessons with an appropriately qualified driving instructor.
Laws and driving rules may be different in your country. The makers of this video cannot be held liable for any consequences caused by any information that is in any way inaccurate, misleading or missing. The makers of this video are not liable for any person's driving other than their own, it is the responsibility of the person driving a vehicle to ensure they drive safely and within the law. The makers of this video are also not liable for any person failing a driving test as a result of the information provided in the video.
00:00 What does amber mean
01:05 How long does amber last
01:48 A big problem
02:09 Emergency stopping times
04:02 Safe stopping times
06:56 No driving solution
07:38 Only solution
08:12 Your opinions
09:12 Outro
The biggest problem I have with amber lights is I have to check my mirrors and make sure it's safe to jump on the brakes, other drivers might not be able to react as fast as me and considering most other drivers are right up behind me it's a big factor in deciding if I'm going to brake or just boot it. I passed my test almost a year ago, partly thanks to your videos. Ironic that as soon as you pass your test there is a whole new world of driving to learn and you don't have anybody next to you. I guess that's why I keep watching! :)
In Finland this issue is solved by road design, and light design to an extent. The maximum speed limit at a light controlled intersection is 70 km/h (a bit over 40 mph). If there are any pedestrian crossings, which there are in 95% of cases, the maximum speed limit is 60 km/h (just a bit shy of 40 mph). The length of the amber also changes, it's a minimum of 3 seconds always. But at 60 km/h it's 4 seconds, and at 70 km/h it's 5 seconds.
I think it's pretty crazy that you can be going 60 mph and might have to stop for a traffic light.
It's especially crazy when you have only 3 seconds to stop.
Not sure we have many NSL (National Speed limit) zone traffic lights? 50 max? The "intergreen" (all red phase) is varied from 2 to 7 seconds to account for speed & local environmental factors. Surely one just eases the gas & covers the brake as you approach to within 5 seconds of a green signal which has been lit for more than 7 seconds (the legal minimum green time - a green lit longer must be regarded as "stale" & likely to change). At 3 secs. to go one puts ones right trotter firmly back on the gas & whips it through. At 3 seconds you are "committed"; This would be 132ft @ 30mph or 219ft @50 mph from the line. The law (as opposed to the Highway code) states "the amber signal shall convey the same prohibition as a red signal (i.e. vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the transverse white line) except in the case of a vehicle which cannot pull up safely before the line in which case the amber signal shall convey the same meaning as the green signal which preceded it (i.e. proceed if safe to do so). Defensive driving would seem to provide the solution remembering that the speed limit is a "limit - not a target" & one can go slower!
In my opinion, traffic light junctions should not exist on high-speed roads. The speed limit should be reduced on approach to such a junction on an otherwise high-speed road.
You can look into the distance and if you see the lights have been green for some time, then know they may change by the time you reach there. This gives you time to slow down and prepare to stop. It may not work every time… like if you’ve just turned a corner. But it does help when the road is straight and you’re able to see the lights way before you reach them.
Using roundabouts instead of traffic lights on high speed roads can fix a lot of these problems. Obviously they can’t be used everywhere but there are a lot of traffic light junctions in the uk that should be roundabouts
I totally agree with you and I have seen a solution to this problem from countries in Eastern Europe (Baltic region iirc). What some countries do to their traffic lights are make the green light flash for the last few seconds before changing to yellow. The light is still green but gives everyone advance notice it's about to change. Would be easy to implement here too.
That would require competent workers who care abut safety. What we have is the Highways Agency, now trying to rebrand itself... the same agency that came up with so-called 'smart' motorways. The same agency that is supposed to look after our roads - roads that have faded lines, terrible surfaces even on the motorway, and potholes. The same agency whose drivers regularly ignore speed limits.
Definitely one of the things I struggled with when I was learning a few years ago - on one of my very first mock tests I did, I stopped at an amber light, thinking i was still far enough away, but actually ended up stopping just over the stop line, and my instructor said i shouldve just kept going (got a minor for it.) In my next mock test, the exact same thing happened, and the distance i was from the lights when they turned amber was very similar. I didnt slow down and was going to continue, as I rembered what my instructor had said in the last mock test, but this time my instructor slammed on the brakes, and said i needed to stop (obviously failed for that!) There really isn't a good solution in my opinion :/
Exactly happened with me 😂
Your instructor was in the wrong for slamming on in my opinion. If you're too close just keep going.
I agree it's not a good solution, but it's the only solution to stay legal.
@@ConquerDriving Oh yeah, definitely not disagreeing that the way you explained in this video is the best way to deal with them!
@@ConquerDriving
Common sense needs to take priority; I prefer to drive "safe" as oppose to driving "legal".
And for the very reasons highlighted here, approaching a green light is far more difficult than red... great videos.
Spot on. Often have this problem on faster roads, particularly 50mph and 60mph road. The amber light length is wholly insufficient. It is definitely dangerous.
my solution would be to put a timer on the traffic lights so you would know how long until the lights change.
Yeah lot's of those signals in Asian countries, far easier for the driver
If people were in a rush and saw the timer it would encourage speeding.
No need for expensive solutions like this. In Brazil the lane marks on the road become continuous before a traffic light, which means you can continue through if you're within the continuous line distance. And of course the higher the speed at a given road, the longer the amber light, thus the longer the continuous line before it.
@@lucaparker9115 if people were in a rush and saw the Amber light it also encourages speeding
That wouldn't work in the UK as nearly all traffic lights adapt to traffic in real time, so it's impossible to say when they'll turn to red. It all depends on how much traffic turns up.
i could totally see you doing a car show like top gear, top guy, top instructor
In Greece, speed limit is 50km/h (30mls/hr) for most intersections - essentially, you are not allowed to cross a light driving at higher speeds (although, you can easily imagine that this rule is not always abidden by). Also, there are warning traffic lights BEFORE the actual intersection, which, when flashing amber, let you know that the light is about to become red.
As a qualified driver I still sometimes struggle judging whether or not I should stop or keep going when the lights turn to amber, especially when getting close to them. I find this issue is made worse the faster you are going, as should you need to stop, it will take longer to do so.
Obviously if i'm right on top of the lights when they change I should keep going as others behind me would no doubt expect me to go through and wouldn't expect me to stop, if I did stop suddenly with vehicles behind, they may run into me.
Usually what I do, is, when a light has been green for some time, I take my foot off the accelerator on the appraoch and get ready to brake. I do this until I am so close to the lights that I would have no choice but to continue through, at that point I get back on the accelerator and continue as normal. Though sometimes I still get caught out and am unable to stop in time, usually at high speed (50+MPH), and have stopped over the line.
So yes I agree, amber should be on for longer.
I'm so happy I've passed with only 2 minors! Your videos have been very helpful and knowing that an amber light is only 3 seconds definitely helps to work out whether or not you should stop or keep going :)
I had to come back to this channel to say thank you! I would see people post how you helped them passed and prayed one day it would be me. I passed second time (less than 2 weeks after I failed my first attempt) and my success is greatly owed to you. Thank you so much for making driving make more sense ❤️
That's really great to hear, thank you for watching and congratulations on passing!
Just passed my test a week ago and id like to say thankyou for your videos they helped me in a huge way! And ill still carry on watching your videos too. Keep safe and thanks again
That's really great to hear, congratulations on passing!
Hello Richard,I just want to say abig thank you for all you do to help learners like me, especially with anxiety. I passed my test last Thursday with 2 minors at third attempt. I shall continue watching these videos to improve my skills 😊
That's fantastic to hear, congratulations on passing!
I would like to say Big thanks for this man he's Legend . I watch he's video every day and today 23/05/22 I went to test and passed my driving test with 1 minor.
nice one
That's fantastic, thanks for watching and congratulations on passing!
@@ConquerDriving 🙏🏼
On my birthday ^^ I’m glad u passed and stay safe driving
@@asparkdeity8717 thanks mate 🙏🏼
I passed my practical driving test today! Thank you Richard, your videos were so beneficial to my learning outside of my driving lessons. I wish I found your content prior to my other two tests. It feels great finally being able to watch these videos knowing I have my licence now; however, the real learning starts now!
Best of luck to anybody taking their tests, you will do it! No matter how many times it takes!
That's great news, congratulations on passing!
Very happy to say I passed my test yesterday, but I'm still tuning in for your tips. Very helpful, thank you.
That's great to hear, congratulations on passing.
@@ConquerDriving Thank you! 😊
Hey Richard👋 I got my driver's licence last week and I just wanted to say thank you for all the effort you put into your videos, they have really helped me so much! 👏 👏 Thank you from the bottom of my heart😁🤗❤
Congratulations Eliana Schutte.! Here's to Many Year's of Happy and Very Enjoyable Motoring for yourself.! 👏👏👏👏👍
@@royston6451 Thank you so much♥︎😊
Hope you have a wonderful day/night🤗
@@elianaschutte2337 You're Very Welcome.! Just Remember to Drive Defensively and Treat all other Driver's as being Accident Prone.! Good Luck and Happy Motoring.! 👍
That's fantastic to hear, congratulations on passing!
In Alaska, where the road conditions get very icy and ridiculously hard to stop a car on some roads, I learned to slow down when approaching a traffic light intersection, even if the light is still green (just like you mentioned in the video). It's the only way to ensure you can stop before the intersection. It sucks because it increases the chances that you'll have to stop for it, and it reduces traffic flow when you have to slow down for a green light because of "what if?"s. I _WISH_ there was a yellow light that came on while the light was green to let you know it's about to turn just yellow, so it gives you time to prepare and decide if you can safely stop or not.
clover.
Amber lights is "not" the answer; they create more confusion that leads to danger on the roads...
It might help if the UK were to adopt a similar system to Austria, Hungary and some other central European where the green flashes for a couple of seconds before changing to Amber. I found some of the amber lights could be extremely quick though and basically leaving you with the same issue.
As a bonus I wish we would adopt the Austrian system where many traffic lights automatically switch to constant amber flashing at night turning the controlled junction into a regular junction so you don't end up sitting at the red lights with not another car in sight.
Well, I’m loving the Austrian system, however, as a driving instructor in the Uk, trying to get pupils to understand our very simple system is hard enough. If we adopted the Austrian system, heaven help us. 😩
Here in Russia, the green light flashes for 3 seconds. As much as I like it, mostly out of uniqueness, I also don't like it for several reasons.
The first reason, is that apart from the few countries you've mentioned, no part of the world other than the former Soviet Union uses this traffic light indication. The latter of these countries have pretty bad road safety ratings.
The second reason is that most drivers simply floor the gas pedal when the green light flashes, instead of slowing down as they were intended to.
Regarding flashing traffic lights at night-time, that is commonly done with fixed-time traffic lights, and many Russian cities still flash them yellow at night-time. For that purpose, priority signs are mounted alongside traffic lights, which are only to be followed when the traffic lights are out or flashing.
However, in cities, which are where most traffic lights are found, time has shown that flashing yellow traffic lights are not safe for pedestrians.
This is because at night, it's obviously harder to see, and pedestrians have to determine when it is safe for them to step out into the road. Headlights, from a pretty significant distance in daytime, can be deceiving at nighttime, because the car can actually be going much faster. This can lead to vehicle-pedestrian accidents.
Traffic light junctions have been operating 24/7 in my city since 2013 for that reason.
The delays can be mitigated by upgrading fixed-time traffic lights to "vehicle-responsive" traffic lights. These traffic lights have detectors, and work by holding green light until the minimum green time elapses, and until the gap between vehicles exceeds a specified value. If a gap is never found, the green light will forcefully be terminated when the maximum green time is exceeded. Most British traffic lights operate this way.
These traffic lights have 2 other delay-reducing functions:
-Individual traffic lights without waiting vehicles can stay red, reducing delay.
-In absence of all waiting vehicles, the traffic lights can either remain in the last displayed green, in the main street green, or revert to red in all directions. With the latter, traffic lights for the appropriate road change instantly when a car is detected.
*"I wish we would adopt the Austrian system where many traffic lights automatically switch to constant amber flashing at night"*
I wish that my country (Denmark) would adopt system where traffic lights flashes green before turn amber. I also wish that we adopt the system that some traffic lights start flashing amber at night, like from 22 - 5 o'clock.
I quite like the system used in Austria, Hungary, Russia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Flashing green is actually a good idea
Got my test tomorrow. Am nervous 😓 but watching ur videos has helped loads. Thank u so much 😁
Mine is day after.. Good luck to you
Good luck!
@@ConquerDriving hi can you pls recommend me dangerous or serious driving fault compilation or guide me for that sometimes m confused when judging about getting opportunity at roundabout when other waiting at right(not signal controlled)
I passed. Good luck to anyone taking there test today. @conquerdriving your videos helped me loads. Thank you so much x
Great observation and explanation, Richard! This issue seems quite difficult! But in Hong Kong, we have learnt a quite useful skill to face possible amber lights, which is called 「燈前決定點」(literally means the point to make decisions in front of the traffic lights). We usually estimated the distance about 4 seconds away before the light. If our car smoothly pass this point, then we should go ahead safely even if the light goes yellow! I hope this practice in HK would inspire the drivers in the UK. Thanks!
I get my pupils to commit to passing the lights when they are less than 3 seconds away. It can be quite hard to judge 3 seconds though.
i definitely agree that they are too short. i live near a 40mph road which has sets of traffic lights down it and it feels as if im going to throw everyone in the car through the windscreen when i have to stop quickly for them let alone any higher speed limits!
I completely agree. My partner was fined a couple of years ago for going through ONE second after it had turned red, in icy road conditions, at 40mph. He could not stop safely. If he had braked hard enough to stop at the light it could have very likely caused an accident.
So your partner was driving too fast for the road conditions then.
It is a speed limit not a target. You should always drive at a speed where you can safely stop if the lights were to turn red or something else were to happen such as someone walking out on a zebra crossing etc which means adjusting your speed to the road conditions but I still agree that the lights are on amber for far to short a period with the exception of in 20 zones
@@richardambler8629 Lot of idiots don't seem to understand that speed limits aren't targets.
If people think speed limits are targets, they shouldn't be driving..
A very informative video and I hope the authorities consider coming up with a lasting safe solution.
Patrick Annan
Authority are not in the business to make anything "safe" for anyone!
I passed my practical test last week!! I just wanted to thank you for making your videos. I find them very helpful as they explain things in a very intuitive way.
Your tip about keeping your knee in the centre of the road really helped and had an immediate effect on my driving. As trivial as it sounds this really helped me feel more confident on the road.
Keep up the great work.
This also works for me the knee technique I mean.
Hello
Which video does he mention this tip?.
@@bilzy7727 watch the videos for steering and how to stay in the centre.
@@mylittleworld2552 Thanks
That's so great to hear, congratulations on passing!
This is why in uk everyone goes on very late amber/red. In Poland in a few places there is a timer next to the light. And this is the best solution in my opinion because you can adjust your speed accordingly.
They should create a traffic light where we are given a countdown when it’ll turn red or green instead of changing suddenly
Traffic lights with countdowns do exist in some places.
You mentioned about this issue on roads up to 60mph. I'd like to add that I know of several stretches of 70mph dual carriageways which also have traffic lights. To me that is utter madness. If they can't change the road design to have a proper interchange without traffic lights then at least reduce the speed limit on the approach for goodness sakes! Of course, it would be madness to approach traffic lights at 70mph but as we all know, there are some drivers who will think it's ok to drive at 70mph "because that's the speed limit".
Completely agree, the amber light is too short. I've had this problem a few times. My instructor told me to anticipate and assess how long the green light has been on. It works in some cases, but the timing of the green depends on the junction, area, and time of the day, so it's impossible to anticipate when the amber will appear. As a result I sometimes approach the lights with hesitation - not great! Thank you for all the videos, they are brilliant!
Personally I think trying to predict when the lights will go red based on how long they've been green is not a true solution. Some lights stay green for a long time some are only green for a moment.
Highway code states you must stop at amber unless it is unsafe, and you've proven that it's unsafe to stop at amber even at 30 mph roads, that means the solution is to always keep going on if it hass just turned to amber.
The speed limit won't matter too since at higher speed you'll travel more distance in those three seconds to cross the line before red.
That's true about the distance, I'm doing a follow up video soon. But the results are still bad.
@@ConquerDriving Unfortunately there is an error in the premise of your analysis. What matters is not whether you stop before the light turns red, but that you stop before stop line. It doesn't matter at all if the light has been red for a couple of seconds before you stop.
I have posted a thorough analysis on this, and what the deceleration rate has to be to be able to stop before the junction at various speeds with a 3 second amber. I've included the a 0.67s think/reaction time (as per the Highway Code assumption) and the required rate of retardation is below for your 0.46g "safe" retardation rate for all speeds up to 47mph (it marginally fails at 50mph with a requirement for 0.49g.
If a 4 second amber period is adopted than the required retardation rate never exceeds 0.46g for all speeds up to 68mph. Personally I favour a fixed amber period as drivers know what to expect. I can imagine drivers expecting a 4 second interval "jumping" a 3 second one by accident. They ought not to do it of course, but I think it's safer to used a fixed interval.
Definitely agree with you. I wonder how the road signalling planning is like over in Europe, particularly in Holland etc. They have a lot better city planning than we do.
I live there, if the junction has been redone in the last 10 years the signals are great and it will generally not go amber until the penultimate car in a progression has crossed it and it's timed for the last one to get through safely. Older traffic lights might still run on a set loop and have you waiting for nothing unfortunately. I'm not sure but I feel like the amber lasts longer on roads out of town as well. You won't have traffic lights if the speed limit is over 80 km/h
@@RusNad The first system you've described is known as "vehicle-actuated" traffic lights, and the second system you've described is known as "fixed-time" traffic lights.
In the US, the yellow light varies between 3 to 6 seconds long, depending on the speed limit of the road. The rule of thumb there is that the first number of the speed limit corresponds to the length of the yellow light.
Here in Russia, most traffic lights flash green for 3 seconds before changing to a 3 second amber.
In the UK, the amber light is fixed at 3 seconds, but it's not really a problem.
This is because almost all British traffic lights have vehicle detection, either running the older Vehicle Actuation system (VA), or the more recent improved Microprocessor Optimised Vehicle Actuation system (MOVA). The detectors either take form of inductive loops cut into the road, which can be spotted by loops of tars before traffic lights, or can take form of radars mounted on top of traffic light signal heads.
The basic operation of VA, is that after a minimum green period for a road, the green light will be held, until the gap between vehicles passing the detector exceeds a specified value. That value also is the amount of time the green light is extended by. There also is a maximum green value, which when exceeded will forcefully terminate the green light, to avoid excessively delaying other traffic.
On roads where most vehicles approach the junction at or below 35 mph, that's all there is. However, when approach speeds exceed 35 mph, special equipment is necessary to avoid changing the traffic lights when vehicles are in a "dilemma zone".
If you don't know what that is, a dilemma zone is an area before an amber traffic light, in which some drivers will decide to stop, and some drivers will keep going.
Without this special equipment, there would be a risk of rear-end collisions when the traffic light changes to amber.
Under VA, this takes form of additional detectors slightly far from the traffic lights, which analyze the speed of approaching vehicles, and extend the green light by a specified value for vehicles travelling above a specified speed.
Under the more recent MOVA, there are no additional detectors, since it calculates the position of approaching vehicles based on the time passed from when they were detected, and extends the green light until there are no more vehicles in the dilemma zone.
Love your videos 🧡
Great video again rich!
Thank you!
I totally agree with you. We also have to check mirrors before breaking which adds time. Then based on what you see a decision has to made as to go or not as the car behind could be close. Which means 3 seconds is definitely not enough time.
One checks mirrors on sighting the lights so when they change you only need to brake. If the one behind was a little close for comfort one would already have slowed a little to compensate.
I agree. With us in the Netherlands, they did get amber to stay on longer. And I think it worked out great.
That's interesting to know, thank you.
This is a UK roads problem. In some countries (in Eastern Europe) they either implement flashing greenlight for about 3 seconds before it turns amber. Or even install sections with countdown - so that you can see how many seconds left for the green/red light. Very convenient. Hope the UK will come to that in some years.
The only real solution is to pay attention to the green light before you get there. If it has been green for a while, you'd better slow down. If it's a relatively new green, say a couple seconds, you're most probably good to go
good to go?
Not all the time, sometimes it works on gaps but the right thing to do if anticipating the lights changing would be to ease off instead of brake so you don't dazzle drivers behind you.
Passed just recently and this is what my instructor drummed into me. If you can see it's been green for a while take your foot off the gas coming up to it (but not actively braking) and cover the brake pedal until you reach the point of no return when you apply the gas again.
@@hr8141 Accelerator not gas
@@rufusgreenleaf2466 Have you ever been dazzled by brake lights?
I was taught to check for pedestrians on the faster roads as im approaching and itll give you a good idea if its going to change from green ❤
definitely, I am in Australia. one year ago, I got my license by watching videos including yours(Thank you Buddy) and doing practices. In fact , until now, I still feel unconfortable when it comes down to the amber light situation especially in the busy road and there are some cars chasing you behind.
I agree with you.
7:33 I know those traffic lights, it's a 50mph road and quite a steep downhill, lots of cars you can come completely off throttle and gravity maintains you going 50mph. Having to stop from 50 to 0 in 3s isn't something I like doing in my small 1.2ton car. When I had blackbox insurance, everytime i got caught out by those lights, i'd get a mark against me on the app, maybe the insurance company would prefer me to go through the red light!
I can imagine for heavy vehicles it's even more of a pain, a bus with standing passengers might have issues onboard!
Very good point Michael, I didn't even think of the black box.
I think the only safe solution in this scenario is to gradually reduce speed when approaching the lights especially if roads conditions are not perfect. I can't see this being a test failure as you are adjusting speed according to potential hazard.
@@cactusbase3088 it could be undue hesitation though.. Could argue why should you brake for a light that's green. I think it's wise to cover the brake though if that's feasible
@@MichaelFlatman that's why I specifically mentioned gradually slowing down which is normally possible to do without using the brakes.
I think if everone anticipate knowing the light has been green for long should be no problem 🤔 definitely agree with you during rainy and icy conditions
I definitely agree. It has been one of my biggest problem when learning how to drive. I have been trying to time it but it is just too short and I end up breaking harshly. I am scared that someone can crush me on the back of the car so I have been slowing down when there is a traffic light and as soon as I am close to the line I just increase the speed. So that will give me more time to react.
I think it is dangerous having to brake this hard at 50+mph
That was my first shock when I came to Turkey by car: amber light was so unexpected that I thought there is no way it is safe. It's like a traffic light's purpose is to surprise you, instead of make it safe. :D Thanks for confirming my thoughts. Now getting to the traffic light here I always anticipate the change - not that great of experience really :D. Never had this issue in Russia (Moscow). Here how this problem is solved there: 1) all traffic lights have blinking green first for about 3-5 seconds, only then amber for 3-5 seconds, and then you get red. As a result you have a bunch of time to prepare. 2) most of the traffic lights have countdown timer, especially on high risk intersections and on high speed roads. And even those green timers are blinking when the time is close to five seconds to grab driver's attention.
I would say as an instructor, it would be about teaching people to anticipate the potential light change on approach rather than changing the length of the light itself. I think something that could help is having a distance line painted for the speed limit of the road, where it is a safe stopping distance before the line if the lights change, so you know if you can stop safely before them. Would also help visualise stopping distances to students too.
But all lights last a different amount of time, there is no way to know if a light is about to change and why should we accept being put in a position of having to guess when something will happen? You can use clues to guess but you won't know. In some situations slowing down for a green light can be a test fail. A longer amber solves the problem and shouldn't need any infrastructure. It's not such a problem on 30mph roads. It's 50mph+ where things get dangerous.
Even when you did the test with safe stopping, you knew you were going to stop and when you were going to stop, so it didn't truly include reaction time. So many things on our highways need improving, from road surfaces to traffic lights.
Some countries have that 2-3 seconds before amber green is starting to blink, to alert you that amber will come soon. In my experience it usually adds enough time to choose: can you have time to go through the light or that you should start slowing down. Seeing traffic lights without a blinking green signal (and experiencing it in ETS2) really makes me feel uncomfortable, since I live in a country that has the signal
I believe from experience that the delay in lights turning green after opposing ones turn red are junction specific to take into account a number of factors such as width of the junction, speed of opposing Road etc.
We have a lot of 20mph roads around where I live (Edinburgh and East Lothian) and some areas have very quick lights and some have very slow lights.
One is so slow you can see the person walking up to the lights and pressing the button and I have never had the light change from green while I have been driving through. Then about 3 miles away we have a set of lights where you can be in the zig-zags just before the lights and a person can walk up press the button and it will change before you are at the line so its a emergency stop.
My first accident after 2 weeks of getting a license was exactly that. It was a big junction and I wasn't sure I will make across it in time with the lights changing to amber. I stopped a bit more harsh then usually, but my bags didn't start flying (this is how I measure the safeness of stops myself). The driver behind me unfortunately expected different behaviour and hit me slightly from behind. I thought here, in Berlin, amber lights do vary in length, based on junction size for example, so there is more time to clear it, but now I am not sure anymore... Also making traffic lights vary on speed limit might not work all the time, because there are also time/weather/vehicle type condition speed limits, which would be very complicated to implement in a traffic light.
In my opinion the weather shouldn't make a difference as we shouldn't be forced to stop so harshly that we're worried about tyre traction. On ice we will obviously be slower so it should still be OK.
From Physics point of view that's not quite a right logic. Yes, it takes roughly 3 seconds to stop completely, but nobody forces you to stop as soon as you see the red light, when you're far enough from the light. That means in your logic you omit how far you are from the red light. If I'm to use your example of amber light in a 60 mph zone - in full emergency 1,1G braking it takes about 30 meters to strop from 60 mph. However when you do the maths, you will travel 80 meters at that speed if you don't start braking. That means, that if you're at 80 meters of the Traffic light when it turns amber, you can continue without braking to still go through without going through red light. On the other hand, you need 30 meters to stop the car from 60 (in perfect conditions), that is to be about 1,2 seconds from the traffic light. Which means that if you're 3 seconds of steady drive from the traffic light, you can think for 1,8 seconds, cover the 50 meters and then when you brake hard, you will still breake just before the white line. And yes, the light will turn red before you've stopped, but that's not illegal.
On the other hand, if you were exactly at 3 seconds from the stop light, you would think for 1 sec, that would still leave you 53 meters to stop which is an average deceleration of 0,7G, which is not ideal but still doable. That is though the worst case scenario, when you could have made it by continuing on but instead you judged it wrong after a second of hesitation. Which btw corresponds to what we have all gone through at some point....
You are absolutely right, I did think the results were worse than they feel, I will do a follow up video but even when considering you have a greater stopping distance at a higher speed the results are not good.
Issue is, especially in cities, that there's a "pie" chart of available time at intersections. Road engineers HATE the amber as its "dead time" that cannot be used for any other purpose. Most junctions will complete their cycle in about 120 seconds or so. Assuming the simplest possible junction of North-South then East-West traffic, there's a minimum of 6 seconds dead amber time, or 5% of the total time. Not to mention all-red times where no one is moving, or time to allow pedestrians to finish crossing etc. As traffic volumes get higher and higher, the slices of the pie become more and more vital, and a traffic engineer explaining to the mayor that they have to lose 10% capacity through the city's most important junction to change the ambers from 3 seconds to 6 (or 3 seconds to 4 if it's a complex junction with many signal stages) just won't do.
I totally agree with you that the pedestrian crossing on the 50mph dual carriageway wants a longer amber time and it will barely affect anyone. But even changing a 3s amber to 4s on a busy city junction with multiple signal stages and pedestrian crossings etc has the potential to reduce capacity a great deal. I think the clause you mention in the highway code of not stopping if it could cause an accident is mostly sufficient: oncoming directions of traffic only begin to get the red+amber light as soon as yours gets a red. They are supposed to wait for green to actually move. Even if you proceeded on amber, you should have cleared the junction by this point, especially at higher speeds. And of course a green light is only permission to proceed once clear, oncoming drivers need to ensure the junction is clear before moving off.
The only true answer is a reduction of motor vehicle numbers, which we need anyway to improve safety in other ways than just this.
I like your vieods, and your style.
Changing how long amber lasts according to the speed limit of the road seems sensible. Meantime I would say that on higher speed roads, approaching a junction with lights IS a good reason to slow down if you're doing close to the speed limit. The problem you'll have is that drivers behind you will not be expecting this, and are often already going to be driving too close to you - but that goes for any case where you see a potential hazard up ahead that other drivers don't see or don't recognise as a hazard.
Definitely agree with you 💯
In some countries the green starts to flash a while before the amber; I think that is a perfect solution as it means if that's flashing you can't go as you'll jump the lights.
In my country (Russia), there's no legal difference between a flashing and a steady green light.
As much as I like it, mostly out of uniqueness, I also don't like it for several reasons.
The first reason, is that no part of the world other than the former Soviet Union uses this traffic light indication. These countries have pretty bad road safety ratings.
The second reason is that most drivers simply floor the gas pedal when the green light flashes, instead of slowing down as they were intended to.
There's several horrible traffic light junctions on the A27 where the speed limit is 70 mph where I slowed right down to be sure then had to floor it to be sure it was still green.
I also failed my first test for hard stopping at an amber. It almost happened on the second one too
My instructors taught me to slow down if a light is green and I didn't see it turn green. This is what I did on my test and I passed. Very strange how exams seem to vary
3 seconds to stop from 60 mph? No wonder so many people go through red lights.
“Road Guy Rob” made a similar video about yellow lights being too short. Apparently in the US many cities use an equation to figure out how long the yellow/amber light should be. I found your video interesting and I’m surprised that the amber lights are the same for all speeds.
Great video on a debate with many opinions and no solutions 😉
Longer amber is the solution.
I always thought amber was a bit of a catch 22 when I was learning, still do in fact. In the end I just developed a crude but reliable rule of thumb to deal with it: if I saw I was in the marginal zone when a light swithched to amber, which for me is far enough away from the light that I probably could stop in an emergency but not far enough that it's obvious you'll be stopping, I would think to myself "should I stop?". If after thinking that thought I was still weighing up whether to stop then I would begin to stop, if after that thought I knew there wasn't enough space to stop I would still make it through the amber safely. This method was pretty reliable since I could get the car stopped at the very worst in the cycle area between the stop line and the advanced stop line, and most of the time I had space to spare before the ASL to bring the car to a smooth stop anyway.
Also, to help gauge the marginal zone you can use the road markings to help you. On the ground there are usually arrows showing you which lane goes where (i.e. straight on, right turn only etc.) and they usually aren't put in at random; they are usually put in at set distances from the traffic lights to help gauge distance to the lights on the approach, and with that the space you have to slow the car down. If you are in between the stop line and the furthest ground arrow markings when it changes to amber you probably should continue, since if you are moving at a reasonable speed given the stated speed limit you are probably going too fast to get the car stopped safely before the stop line anyway. If the arrows are in between you and the stop line when it switches to amber that's when the rule of thumb comes into play.
Please note that as the speed of the road increases the harder it gets to judge stopping distances and the like, as you'll have much less time to make your decision. This is when you need to understand the capabilities of your car as well as the capabilities of the vehicles around you. On a fast road the decision may well be made for you by the actions of the cars behind you, since if they don't attempt to stop they're expecting you to continue through the lights. If you try to stop at that point you are risking an accident, especially if the vehicle behind is larger than your car like a van, coach, or lorry.
I drive a large ford transit van down a 50mph stretch every day, and this exact situation is why I go no faster than 35mph. It annoys other drivers consistently - 35mph is far too slow for the road - but my vehicle is absolutely not capable of stopping from 50 in 3 seconds. So if I travel at the correct speed, it's completely up to chance whether I run the red, which is not worth the risk. Quite a ludicrous situation.
Side note: I also know plenty of people who just speed up when they see the yellow just to get across the line.
Conquer Driving.
Personally I would redesign the system slightly with traffic lights; I would take away the amber light altogether and replace it with a countdown display; this will stop drivers having to guess how long you have before the lights change.
That would cost a lot of money though.
@@ConquerDriving
When the government want to do something (normally detrimental), then they can always find the money for it!
In my country sometimes the speed limit gets lower before the junction with lights. Unfortunately this doesn't help a lot, because most drivers don't slow down. I had to go through amber and red light in a faster road without a speed limit sign a few times, so now I slow a little bit, even if it's green.
Hi, your videos are really making an impact on my driving and I have improved a lot.
I am in Ireland, can you make a video on reversing around a corner which is on the test here . Thank you
That's great to hear, thank you for the suggestion, may do in the future.
I suggest you to check out Dane Tyghe, he's an Irish driving instructor.
Definietly agree, its so annoying when your going at high speeds and you gotta brake hard, i can feel my car crying 😭😭😭😭
In my country we have flashing green before amber and sometimes timers. Timers are small but you don't need to see the exact number from long distances, 'til you recognize two numbers(means
Sounds like a good system. Amber lasting longer is a cheap and easy solution though.
I go off gas and hover over the brakes on approach. When I get to a certain point I go back on gas and keep going, even if it just changed to amber.
Great video once again. Have you, personally, ever ran a red light due to this issue, or do you always brake hard instead?
I tend to brake hard if it goes amber at the wrong moment as at least I'm not breaking the law.
I don't usually have problems with this, but I have been driving for over 10 years... I usually get my learners to pick a "point of no return" so that they don't need to make a last second decision. If the light turns to amber before they reach the "point of no return" then they should stop, and they should continue if they have passed the "point of no return".
I usually get them to try to judge when they're less than 3 seconds away then ignore the lights when they are. It works but they have to brake hard to make it sometimes. I have made an error in the video as when you are at a higher speed you're further from the lights at 3 seconds so you have more distance to stop. But it's still not a pleasant result, stopping from 60mph at a traffic light when the light changes at the worst possible moment will be close to the highway code stopping distance.
I would say the best way to approach traffic lights,If you’re on your test, and it’s a 30 road is when you get close the traffic lights slow down to 20 mph , you may get a minor for this, but at least you won’t have a major fault for going through a red light. And as long as you only slowed down as you got towards the traffic lights and weren’t driving at 20mph everywhere Then you should be fine. For everyone else who has already passed the test just slow down as you approach traffic lights.
You’re right about changing the length of amber but as a lorry driver, who has longer braking to do, we have to anticipate more. Drivers should not slow down but ease off the accelerator and coast up to lights, especially if they have been green for a while and prepare to stop. That would eliminate a lot of reaction time.
Then when you reach the point of no return back on the accelerator again.
That’s what we had to show our examiners, that you are anticipating the lights potential to change. I even went through a red light on my test because I was too close to stop safely.
Unfortunately red light cameras don’t have that human judgement element, which is why I agree we you, but you do have your day in court I suppose.
A good tip my instructor gave was to plan ahead. Look well ahead and if you see the traffic lights in the distance have been green for some time, you can assume that they may change by the time you reach them. So start slowing down just in case. That way if they turn amber before you get there, you can come to a smooth stop. And if they change just as you reach them, then keep going. Planning ahead can save your skin. Literally.
Edit: oh and you only worry about pedestrian controlled traffic lights if there’s pedestrians waiting to cross. Otherwise they’ll stay green.
The problem with that is, you can be marked down on your test if you're slowing down for green traffic lights when there is no hazard or turn. For example, going straight on a clear road with a green light, slowing down can be a fault unless there is a hazard to slow down for.
The only problem with increasing the amount of time the amber light stays on will only encourage some people to accelerate to get through the lights before it turns red; even more so than some already do.
They do that anyway. Better than getting points on your license or a car rear ending you when you're only trying to drive sensibly.
The problem is also that some drivers do not follow the Highway Code regarding Amber lights and don't stop when pedestrians are already halfway across.
The simplest solution I can think of is for the traffic light sequence to change, introducing an additional sequence in the Green to Red. Green, Green Amber (New - for 3 seconds) Amber, Red - In the same vein that Red Amber means get ready to go, the Green Amber would be lights are going to change in a few seconds time and it will give road users more notice that lights are about to change.
That's a good idea.
And thise times are for cars, what your larger vehicles van lorry etc, will take them a lot longer.
True.
As there are many comments I don't know whether this has been mentioned. In Austria the sequence is green, then flashing green, then amber, then red. The flashing green is ~3-4 seconds, the amber phase the same. This gives something like 6-8 seconds warning of a red light.
I think that's a good idea, but a longer amber serves a similar purpose.
I would say the best way to approach traffic lights,If you’re on your test, and it’s a 30 road is when you get close the traffic lights slow down to 20 mph , 9:33 you may get a minor for this, but at least you won’t have a major fault for going through a red light. And as long as you only slowed down as you got towards the traffic lights and weren’t driving at 20mph everywhere Then you should be fine. For everyone else who has already passed the test just slow down as you approach traffic lights.
I failed the test just for this error yesterday. I stopped on an amber behind the white line. The braking was not like an emergency stop but a slight harder in a way. The examiner said it was dangerous to stop if a vehicle is behind..
Now looking forward for my next test... I don't know whether they fail me next time for driving through an amber 😇
mjpni
Your examiner should failed the one behind you for tailgating if that's the case!
I was driving through an amber (I have crossed the stop line), the examiner failed me.
when i was taking lessons w/ AA (august-dec 2021) my instructor always said to slow down a little bit just in case they do turn amber on high speed roads and in general as well.
If you're not needing to slow down for a bend or a hazard slowing down when going straight at traffic lights without a reason may cause a mark on a test or even a fail depending on how much you slowed down.
We also need to remember that we can see traffic lights changing much further ahead than would be a 3 second travelling distance
I see many folks beat me to it regarding the various forms of advanced warning in other countries that a traffic light is about to turn red. I can think of two more that I don't yet see mentioned:
1. In Canada, you can almost always tell when traffic lights are about to turn red from the state of the pedestrian lights on the cross street to the street you are on. When those pedestrian light start to flash the "Don't walk" signal it means that your traffic lights MAY be about to turn amber and then red. Notice I said "MAY" because in some cases, even after the pedestrian light turns to red Stop, your traffic lights might still remain green (which is safe). However, the reverse is NEVER true as that would be too dangerous. In other words, it's never the case that your lights would turn red even with the pedestrian lights on the cross street still showing a steady WALK signal. It's all a very good advanced warning of a light change.
2. In Canada, where there are traffic lights on a "high speed" road (around 80kph / 50 mph) or even on a 50kph / 30mph road where it's a dangerous intersection (bottom of a hill, round a bend etc) before the main traffic lights will be an advanced flashing light system with a big sign that reads "When lights flash, be prepared to stop". These advanced lights will start to flash BEFORE the main traffic lights several 100 metres further ahead even change to amber and then red. The advanced lights will continue to flash until the main lights turn to green again.
Sounds like the lights are easier there.
second most scariest thing right after Emergency vehicles heading towards you at 100mph unexpectedly.
They are definitely too short, I’ve passed but still hate traffic lights for the same reason
I wasn't aware of this being quite different in some other European countries! Very interesting.
In Germany it's:
• 50 kph and below: 3 seconds of amber (50 kph = 31 mph)
• 60 kph: 4 seconds of amber (60 kph = 37 mph)
• 70 kph: 5 seconds of amber (70 kph = 43.5 mph)
And 70 kph (43.5 mph) is the max speed for there to be a set of traffic lights.
Personally I think all of the above should have even one more second added. I cannot imagine how stressful it must be to potentially have to come to a stop within 3 seconds at a speed of 50 mph or even more.
It's very stressful, especially as so many in London have cameras.
The solution I can offer is to try to anticipate it changing, it's normally quite easy to identify a "stale" green light. If you're approaching a stale light, you can let off the gas pedal a little bit to make it safer to apply the brakes if it does change. Try to identify a point of no return and say "commit" when you're committed to go, regardless of if it changes to amber.
The problem is that you would get points off for that. You are not supposed to slow down for a green light IF no turn or que ahead etc. As he said in the video.
@@Zyphera you must drive to the conditions, if you can't stop safely when a green light changes, then I'd argue that you're not driving to the conditions and not driving safely. I know it's easier said than done, but since adopting this approach I rarely go through amber lights and I rarely have to brake harshly to stop.
@@supervitz7178 yes but IF in perfect conditions you cannot break in time for the speed limit then the design is wrong. Thats what the video is about. In other countries like Finland the amber light is 5s for 70 km/s and thats maybe the fix to the problem this video showed.
@@Zyphera it's not about perfect conditions, each driver creates their own perfect condition, i.e. if it's wet and greasy, you can't approach a junction at the same speed as if it's dry and warm, but neither of those things mean you should arrive at the traffic light at the maximum speed limit. I understand it works well in other countries, but to introduce the change here, after all these years of driving culture? Meh, not sure if it's worth it, and it comes with its own risks and problems. As we've seen with the latest highway code changes, the change management and societal conditioning is the difficult part. Sometimes a solution adoption brings more risks and effort than it's worth. I normally think Richard gets it spot on, but in this case, to suggest that he can't offer a solution is a bit strange. It's all about anticipation and planning, which new drivers struggle with.
@@supervitz7178 I see what you mean. But I think what this video is trying to show is that even in the best possible scenarion with a perfect car and driver there will not be time to make a safe stop when change to amber in high speed roade with 3s. If that speed then can never be achived safely than it must be changed.
Solutions can be lower speed limit, longer amber time, redesign of roads (maybe a tunnel or bridge or roundabout etc) etc.
On my first test i had no choice to go through a amber light,i had a minor for it. But ive always been taught that if you cant stop in time on the amber just speed up a little
but amber means you should stop not speed up
@@lukedutton6974 did you not watch the video? not always possible.
@@xeuxis8892 I wouldn't speed up I would maintain the same speed.
In my opinion you should not get a minor for going through an amber light unless you were speeding or driving dangerously. As long as you pass the stop line before red you have not broken the law.
I am with you
Went through a red on a 50mph dual carriageway a few months ago for exactly this reason. Saw the light change, knew I was too close stop but the light changed before I crossed. And if a car can't get stopped in 3 seconds a fully loaded lorry has no chance.
Context: I live in Romania.
Here, driving tests have separate speed limits of 30-40 kph (20-25 mph), for this exact reason. However, I do not think it is a good solution, as it often ends up disturbing traffic.
A decent one, in my opinion, would be driving a bit below the speed limit and then accelerating if you end up in that 3-3.5s range where you cannot stop but have to. Although it is not a perfect solution, it is legal, comfortable, and it does not slow down traffic too much (supposing you wouldn't fail for driving at 30-35 in a 40). That is how I do it on a day to day basis.
Also, legally speaking, the speed limit near pedestrian crossings (as I have seen in other comments) is 30 kph (20mph) while in the city.
Unfortunately, passing the driving test and knowing how to drive is very different in some countries - not as much in the UK though, as far as I can see.
In Serbia on some traffic lights we have blinking green light few seconds before amber light (which is around 3 seconds here too). But our traffic experts think it's not safe and they are speaking about eliminating the blinking green light.
They should do so. My country (Russia) has it, and as much as I like it, mostly out of uniqueness, I also don't like it for several reasons.
The first reason, is that no part of the world other than the former Soviet Union uses this traffic light indication. These countries have pretty bad road safety ratings.
The second reason is that most drivers simply floor the gas pedal when the green light flashes, instead of slowing down as they were intended to.
@@NewBuildmini Well, that is easy to deal with. I will put speed camera on that intersection, then there is no reason to floor gas pedal on flashing green light and go above speed limit. Second I will record and fine all red light crossing because if you have flashing green there is no way for you to pass to red light accidentally.
@@ksrele Passing a red light "accidentally" means you are not paying enough attention while driving.
Why do most countries only use 3 lights, and nobody complains of that there?
Stick a timer below the light which gives you a 10 second countdown before amber. No startle effect then.
In India most of the traffic lights have a timer. It gives you a perfect idea when lights are going to change. These are visible from long distance and can help you plan accordingly
Namaste Leeds
In India they still drive dangerously whichever system is used.
Well that's a different debate altogether. But with new rules I can see things improving
@@indiaskates3648
You will eat those words!
I agree, had is today - did a hard stop but only because there was no one behind me. I could of gone through the Amber but deicided as it was only me it was not a big of dea.
Worth noting that you actually have 6 seconds to stop if the light turns amber and you're 3 seconds away at your current speed, assuming you are slowing down at a constant rate (though this doesn't take into account reaction time). Doesn't change anything for the fast roads, but for 30 and 40 roads, 3 seconds is probably fine.
You are right, I've made an error and I will be making a follow up video. At 60mph you are further from the lights when you are 3 seconds away than at 30mph. But the results still mean you are stopping at a rate close to the highway code stopping distances.
Excellent comment, I was looking for this 👍
also, people accelerate when they are on amber, knowing that if they roll through at the same speed they will just cross the lights when they have turned red. In some situations, braking would cause a rear end or some other issue, so acceleration hard into the amber occurs. This has all sorts of risks and dangers.
Apparently this is why roundabouts are safer, people slow down towards roundabout yet people accelerate towards traffic lights.
I've had this problem twice in my lessons - one where I was right to keep going, the other where my instructor said I should have stopped - but in the heat of the moment it seems silly to slam the breaks on that hard!