Living with Hyundai Kona Electric EV (& ritual suicide) | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2020
- If you're thinking about buying an electric car, watch this video.
Is there a rational case for spending the big bucks on a Hyundai Kona Electric? I lived with one for three months to find out - and I'm the country's least-evangelical EV reviewer.
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Great review of the Kona John. We've had ours since may 2019 and it's amazingly good. Coupled with our home solar, we've traveled 15,000 kms for less than $250. We've done 400 km runs on mini holidays easily with 5 people in the car. Electric driving isn't the future anymore, it's the present.
I would love an EV but they are far outside of affordability for me and the range is far too short for my needs.
@@SurmaSampo I drive 850km in a day, 3 charging (= meal) stops, absolutely no issue. Buy 2nd hand and enjoy the low TOC everyday.
@@moestrei 1000km in 12 hours including 1 meal stop driving through rural areas with no charging stations. Did this 4 times in the last 2 weeks.
Also I don't buy cars on finance as I have been lied to and ripped off by finance companies who front load all the interest.
I should add that I am also towing a trailer.
@@SurmaSampo I feel sincerely sorry for you. EVs are not for every task yet but they will get there.
@@SurmaSampo Sounds to me like you need to change your job rather than go electric 😉 That's some serious mileage you are doing and in some countries driving that long without breaks would pretty much be illegal for commercial purposes. It's certainly not recommended for anyone.
It's the initial outlay that's putting me off I commute about 86 miles a day which is considered pretty high by usual standards so the cost for appropriate vehicles is coming down slowly soon it will be at my price point just not yet.
My number on motivation when I bought my EV; It goes like stink - whilst being a regular saloon car that accommodates my family and all their clobber.
I was able to justify the upfront cost with the fuel, tax and maintenance savings over the 10 years I plan to own it (5 years down and still happy).
Everything else, from not having to visit fuel stations to smooth quiet *progression*, is a bonus.
If you think it is faster to fill up an ICE car then an EV, then you are missing the point of refill at home. Charging EVs are usually faster then refill an ICE car. You need 5 sec to plug the cable at home and 5 sec to unplug the cable next morning. Now you always have a full battery every morning. And you do not have to drive to a gas station. The charging time are when your car is parked anyway, so if it need 1 hour or 8 hours to recharge, it does not matter.
It is only when you need to drive longer then the cars range in a single day (or a single trip) you need fast charging. And you only need 30-45 minutes to recharge to 80% (depending on the car and the fast charger). If you combine the fast charging with the break you need as a driver after driving for hours, you can drive a long trip just as fast as with an ICE car. Depending that fast charger are available on the route at reasonable locations.
So if you only go on longer trips then the cars range not the often, the time you save with all the charging at home more then compensate for the time lost for long trips.
But you need the possibility to charge at home (or work). If you do not have the possibility to charge at home, then EVs charge time are absolutely an issue.
@Fast Dunny ...Exactly. It takes all day to complete the process. It's fine if you never leave the city. I reckon it takes about 5 seconds to get the nozzle into the fuel tanks as well.
Surely it's an infrastructure issue, soon enough these EVs will be wireless charging like our phones, and most car parks will have solar fitted to th store or mall roof, park in an Ev bay, and not even worry, it's charging same as it would be at home in your garage
@Fast Dunny Yes, there are some uses cases that diesel are better, but for most people the cars are a lot more in the garage then in a national park.
And you can create your own electricity to power your car: th-cam.com/video/34NwCEQtC1Y/w-d-xo.html
Try that with diesel :-)
@@simonmeli7060 Yes, but you have to be at a gas station to tank your car. It is no detour to park in your own garage, but to drive to a gas station may be a be small or large detour. You have to add that time to the fill up time.
@@Craig-wp3pz They are testing wireless charging for electric taxis in Norway. www.nytimes.com/2020/08/13/business/jaguar-i-pace-oslo-taxis-charging.html
Wireless charging will be very convenient. Cord based charging are very well standardized, but wireless car charging have no well accepted standard yet.
As an 'Amurican' I can say this was certainly the most entertaining car talk video I've ever seen. Thank you for this!
Check out Transport Evolved, they do a good job of explaining the technology too.
@@johnklein338 Thank you! I just watched a 2019 video on winter driving that has some good tips.
Ok, but you also need to check out Regular Car Reviews. Now!
The function of the box in the 10A charge cord is to tell the car's on-board charger to not take more than 10A. Similarly, the function of the box on the wall is to tell the car's on-board charger that it is allowed to take up to 32A. In both cases, the box is an EVSE (electric vehicle supply equipment) telling the car what the safe maximum current is from the available supply. The portable cord has a standard three pin 10A plug so obviously it could be plugged into a 10A socket so the car has to know not to pull more than the rated limit of that 10A socket.
As it happens, I have a Kona electric. Although I have access to a 32A supply and a portable 32A EVSE, I leave that in the car and rarely use it. I just use the 10A cord on an ordinary power point. 10A is enough to add almost 200km of range overnight. It is best for battery longevity to avoid deep discharge and charging to 100% full, which is easy to do when using the car around town. I tend to plug in at 40-50% and have the car set to stop charging at 80%. I only charge to 100% when planning a trip out of town the next day.
Thank you for your input. It would be interesting to know where you acquired your information, particularly concerning the best practices for extending battery longevity. Thanks again.
@@rogerwellesley-smith4904 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 explains the functions of the EVSE box. The Kona has a type 2 plug rather than the type 1 or 'J1772' plug but the communication protocols are the same. I have a plain dumb adaptor that allows me to charge my type 2 socket Kona from a type 1 outlet or charge cord.
Many manufacturers of EV recommend limiting routine charging to 80%. As battery capacities and ranges get larger and people get used to charging at home, it is less of an inconvenience to do top ups to match local driving with trips well under the vehicle's range. There is also academic research into battery chemistry showing that more detrimental effects occur at the extremes of charging than in the middle range. Apple even applies this phone charging - plug in overnight and they take your phone to about 80% then top up the last bit shortly before when it learns you usually take your phone off the charger.
The Holden/Chevy Volt is a plug-in series hybrid. For local driving the petrol engine stays off and it behaves purely as an EV. Its battery has lasted very well. This is partly due to good thermal management and partly due to being managed to only ever use the middle 2/3 of the battery - it is never charged absolutely full nor allowed to run utterly empty. What is shown as full to empty is really the middle 10.5kWh of a 16.5kWh battery.
A separate reason to charge to 80% at fast DC chargers on trips out of town is that the charge rate slows down as you get close to full. On a long trip it is better to do fast DC top ups while having toilet/coffee/meal breaks every few 100km and continue on rather than hanging around to get to 100%. If continuing on the next day, charge slowly to 100% overnight on AC.
I am well across all this stuff because I have been driving EVs since 2009, a car I converted to electric drive and three commercial cars, a Holden Volt, a Mitsubishi iMiEV. All those are now sold and replaced with our one Hyundai Kona electric.
@@PeterEVcharade Thank you so much for your very interesting and comprehensive reply. I am not yet an EV owner, but my next car certainly will be,
@@PeterEVcharade a difference between a phone battery and the Kona is that the Kona has a buffer at both extremes; 100% according to the board computer isn't 100% in the battery. 0% isn't 0% either. So by keeping your charge between 45 and 80% you are actually keeping it within an even smaller range. Fine, but a little on the safe side.
@@HenriZwols I have never been able to find much info on just how much buffer the Kona has. I suspect it is not very large, certainly not as much as the Holden/Chevy Volt which only used the middle 2/3. It is easy to stick around the upper-middle range for routine driving around town in the Kona because the >400km range is so much more than needed until we go on a longer trip out of town, when it is sufficient.
Great to see you gave the Kona more than a 1 day test drive and a positive review. I haven't missed stopping at the servo for over a year. Fortunately, been a shift worker, I'm regularly home to charge from my solar during the day and my annual fuel spend has dropped to zero. Importantly EV infrastructure for long trips is coming along nicely too.
Yes solar and an EV makes so much sense.
Yep just got 5kw system installed ! Even charging at night it covers my 50klm daily commute. i think we will see a day when today’s powerlines become like old phone lines :)
@@jestronixhanderson9898 they will increase the service fee for those power lines
@@the.parks.of.no.return Yes, the line fees would obviously have to increase if fewer customers are paying for less useage of them, and there will be road use taxes on electric vehicles. And someday the Middle East will again be able to start to charge more for crude oil. But not today. Not today.
EVs have incredible performance, are quiet, have no smelly exhaust emissions, are cheap to fuel, and need hardly any servicing. Way to go.
Yes but consider this. Because of California's push for green electricity they have rolling black outs now. Plus rare earth mining is not only bad for the environment but also bad for people because part of the workers are African children. Sure, keep your electric car if you want but I don't think we should outright ban petrol cars. People didn't start buying teslas because we've banned the other cars.
Tesla has solved all these issues. In Australia have you heard of the Tesla Hornsdale power reserve? Solved Australia’s power supply issues and saved Australians money! I suspect on September 22 Tesla will reveal new battery technology that will make it cheaper to buy and own a battery vehicle than a petrol vehicle !
California's blackouts are because of problems with the transmission network failing, and there are now EV batteries that contain no cobalt. Yes, battery day announcements will be interesting. The Australian Hornsdale reserve big battery, as well as other Australian big batteries, have improved grid stability and cut electricity prices. The tin-foil hat brigade will try and tell you otherwise. I've driven an EV and it was by far the most powerful car I've ever driven - I look forward to owning one.
@@mspalmboy I have yet to drive an EV, but the writing is totally on the wall. Lit up in 200ft high neon letters. Petrol/Diesel have a way to go yet, it's true, but my next car will be an EV - and my last petrol car (the Jaguar XJ8 supercharged) will be what I keep to have noisy smelly fun in...
I've seen a summary that a TH-cam guy did. Our country's grid is on the brink. Can't handle current demand and we rely on dirty electricity import.
Shitty 3rd world country sucks for us?
Nope. It's Sweden! ☝️😐
Outstanding production values! Looks bulk more expensive than one creator would manage. Thumbs up 👍
It helps the budget having a really tall Ming Moll on the camera for those “looking down at John standing in front of the car” shots
I own a Kona electric. I’ve installed extra rooftop solar in order to ‘charge’ my car during the daytime in preference to exporting my solar to the network. It seems to me best approach.. I calculate that during the warmer months my 3 kW solar array will provide me 3 days commuter travel distance on less than a 8 hr charging session. I’m concerned about pollution in my city and you mentioned that you were to the other week John so I don’t see what your issue is with people going electric.
He has no issue with people going electric.
Just people thinking in the short term that they are having any meaningfull impact on being green.
Also that the batteires will need to be replaced.. so not so carbon nutral like alot of EV owners claim
Hi Chris, I totally agree with the pollution aspect. Particularly given Australia don't have any emissions standards for vehicle's which is a discrace. Goes to show community health takes second place to other interests with Australian politician's.
@@greengrubwoodentoysaustral8452 our air quality is very good, as evidenced by our very high longevity. If it were genuinely bad, we'd not be living so long. Our longevity compares well with cities that have the best air quality.
That was a difficult read.
Shain Andrews Agreed a rush job amended the wording
Great balanced review. I have Solar + Batt (LG Chem) + EV. I’m not green, I just like tech toys. I was sick of paying for power bills and fuel and found a better way. In VIC for all but 8 to 10 weeks of winter I keep my home running over night and can still top up my car with solar and stored energy. I make more solar power then I use over the year. Zero power bills for past 2 years. Summer power bill credit is used in Winter. PV & Batt for me = 7 to 8 year ROI. Also I still have power during power outage (happens a lot) - thanks to power backup option. ROI doesn’t factor in EV upgrade cost over ICE car. EV bonuses No fueling, always fully charged car, hardly any maint, lots of power, fun to drive. Blah, Blah, Blah ... the take away point is to connect a battery to your solar system if you can, that is the game changer.
Listening to you makes my day. All that sarcasm REALLY cleanses the old neurons...
HELLELUJAH Saint John has seen the light, lol, been driving a Kona EV for over 12 months, not after saving the planet, but the wallet has put on weight, which is a good thing
That oil reserve you mentioned, is it not stored in the USA?
Mate yiure dumb, a kona is half price kona electric. 30k is a lot of petrol mate. You dumb or what?
Catadog you’re the dummy do the maths.
Not hating just asking, how long will it take to get the extra 20 odd grand you spent on the Ev version to break even with your fuel cost savings?
@@voivod6871 would have to drive about 400 000km at least to start breaking even. The Einstein above too slow to figure that out. 30k difference is not like 3k difference going from petrol to diesel.
But let's not forget the maintenance downside. My LEAF recently had its second fifty euro bill at the mechanics...in five years! Outrageous ; )
We have had our EV Kona Highlander for 18 months. Love it. Put 235x18” Pilot Sport tyres and got rid of the rubbish OEM wheels and tyres. The 100% torque is so intoxicating
Juice FPV ... How much did the new wheels cost?
You forgot to say that charging an EV from a coal fired source only produces 1/3 the pollutants of a oil based vehicle.
Coal isn't really all that great either. I think one majorly valid point in favor is that EV's can all but switch their primary energy source overnight. If you want an alternative fuel for a ICE car however, Biofeuls and Synthetic fuels don't have a very bright future. Biofuel is the world's most inefficient form of solar power, and synthetic fuel is basically just really expensive liquid electricity, nobody's gonna be keen on spending $4 a litre on "green" fuel. So, the power grid is likely to clean itself up over time as wind and solar photovoltaic power get cheaper, whereas gas stations will just keep selling gasoline and diesel until they go extinct.
it also ignores all the electricity needed to make gasoline which makes the equation even worse.
@@davidlazarus67 people Often compare "official" emissions out of the pipe off a fuel car with all Emissions on producing Ev cars, obtain materials, transporting cars, eletricity production and everything related to evs. But they don't count the wars for oil access, oil drilling, oil transportation, oil spills on ocean, oil refining, fuel transport, fuel required to transport the fuel/oil, etc
Bruno Lazaro You forgot the impact of the corruption on governments and the subsidies to the fossil fuel industry, the deaths of environmentalists executed by militias paid by the industry. Though maybe we now have to consider the possibility of Tesla’s involvement in the destabilisation of Bolivia because of the Lithium there.
@@davidlazarus67 And cost to distribute it to end users. Electricity distribution to point of use is very efficient.
Gotta say John, I'm impressed. Watched a few of your other videos before and I was firmly of the belief that it was going to take you much, much longer to come around. I guess I was wrong. 👏👏👏
I'm glad your adjusted views have grown out of experience and I hope a lot of your audience appreciates this also.
I feel the video touched on all valid points of course. I enjoyed watching and you certainly did it justice.
Respect to yourself, and also Hyundai for providing the car to you for an extended period of time.
Car nut to car nut, time to hit subscribe. 👍
OMG. I can’t believe it 😲. A positive Ev story from John?! I may look at an EV one day but my Hyundai Santa Fe is still going strong
This comment right here sealed the deal. This whole shit is a Hyundai commercial.
Actually, it's not.
@@AutoExpertJC Bollocks John and you know it. Hyundai didn't invent EVs. The Kona is an excellent EV for sure, and possibly the best bang for your EV buck at the moment, but, how about the BMW EV with an "emergency generator", that will get you out of trouble if you do run out of juice? Totally overpriced for most, but I'd have thought that would be more of your cup of tea, technically at least, especially with the long range anxiety you have been harping on about. The average commute for Australians is is the region of 35 Km in the major cities, well within the limits of the original Nissan Leaf. Hyundai and Kia are great cars, but not the be all and end all.
@@valerierodger7700 Nicely explained logic,vi hope it's understood
You got ripped. Cost me 200 for Level 2 charger install.
The way to convert a petrolhead to electric is to have him live with a good one for a week or two. Once you get accustomed to driving electric suddenly everything else feels old fashioned.
Yes, the expensive ones are amazing. Don’t let that blind you to the negatives. Initial cost and depreciation ought to be important considerations. The future looks good, but ev owners are still lab rats.
@@nevillecottee7629 The car that converted me was a beat up high mileage and dirt cheap Nissan LEAF. I usually ride motorcycles but needed something for rainy days. It was a perfect commuter. Never had a problem with it and it was fun to drive. Today my cousin's kid has it with over 100k miles on it. Battery was replaced under warranty but never actually broke down. Had my wife's SUV for long trips so no problem there.
Like I said, the way to convince a guy is to have him live with one. You should try it. Alternately you could just keep spouting stuff you don't know about. Your call.
Bill Kerr Thanks for replying. I didn’t mean to offend. We are all lab rats, at various levels. Also, the way to learn is to ask about the things you don’t know about, and to consider both sides of debates. I’ve noticed that when some debaters run out of arguments, they resort to personal attacks. I’ve been thinking about buying a Kona electric. However, I think it’s wise to ask for more than one option. Certainly not from Kona salesmen.
We've had a secondhand leaf for a couple of years, it's still worth exactly the same today. ;)
Greg Kirkby Thanks for replying Greg.
It depends on what you paid for it. I’m not sure how accurate this is, but from my research. Statistically, if you had bought a new Nissan Leaf 3 years ago, it would now be worth 51% of the new car price. Cheers.
That was really good mate. Entertaining, informative, I was pleasantly surprised.
Yuk. Yuk Yuk (referring to petrol station scene) - I have an EV (Hyundai Ioniq) - no smelly petrol, no going to the petrol station. My biggest problems is that the tires need air. I concluded that it was easier to pump it up with my floor pump than to drive to the petrol station. The car is extremely smooth, responsive and easy to drive. I don't get why on earth people but premium cars and they are not buying electric ! I get that they are expensive but that will change. Great video - well done John ! Generally you only need the trickle charger unless your drive more than 300kms every day.
Paul Williamson You are quite right Paul. I agree. EVs are too expensive and that will change at some future time. But we aren’t living in that wonderful time.
@@nevillecottee7629 HOW? Over 5 years of ownership a Tesla model 3 is less expensive than a Toyota Camery. And that is at $12k more expensive.
What is really more expensive right now is buying a comparable ICE car.
David Coltman ... I appreciate your comments. From your experience, do you think EVs are getting cheaper, and better? The guy with the youtube channel “engineering explained” bought a new Tesla as a second car; he isn’t impressed with it. A professional ev operator in Norway noticed that the battery of a 3 year old leaf had degraded 50%. Some careful ev owners never drag race, never fast charge, never run the battery completely down or charge to more than 80%. I reckon I’ve got heaps to learn before rushing out and buying one.
@@nevillecottee7629 In general no they are not getting cheaper because the OEM's are not actually serious about making them. At the moment they are all except Tesla loosing money on making EV's. As Tesla has been learning how to make them cheaper they have been lowering the price. Other OEM's don't do this they just bank the money.
I am not sure if you are aware that Tesla is slated to make 4-5 million EV's a year by 2024 and over 10 million by 2030. This will bring down the cost dramatically. Ford and GM are expecting to make combined 300k at that same time. No I don't think the other OEM's will survive when people realize how great an EV is.
For anyone that lives in a cold climate I suggest getting a model Y as they have the new heat pump.
As for you just go get what you feel you need. If you can afford a Tesla then get one as you will be blown away. This is confirmed by bloombergs article poling people on how they like their Tesla and 98% love the vehicle and this is nearly unheard of in any car.
Do some research and make up your own mind as I am not here to tell anyone what they should get. Personally I would not take this channels advice on any EV as he knows not much about them.
The 2020 Kona will charge at 11kW from 3-phase ( this may be territory dependent)
It's just not recommended to do that very frequently if you want the battery to last
@@PittyDomino 11kw is esay... dont rapid charge. often but i even know people who only use ccs rapid charge
Kona's only have single phase AC charging limited to 32amps (around 7.5kW). Most houses only have single phase supply and 32amps single phase is more than enough for overnight top ups.
Geoff Mewing in Germany every household has 3 phases and your not allowed to only pull more than 3,7 kW from one phase that’s illegal the rule is called schieflast Verordnung they thinking it’s unstable for the power network
I can order 10.5 kW charge as an option to a Kona, about 650 euro/700 USD (to lazy to look up exact rates). Where I live in Europe all houses have 3-phase. You can buy a solar panel with intermediate battery storage (a battery to charge a battery) so you can partly use solar power to charge at night. More money initially, saves in the long run. Would be perfect for you Aussies, you don't seem to lack sunshine.
If I were able to cough up the money to buy one, I would. Hopefully next year I can. Petrol car at the end of its life cycle...
Welcome to the club :) I bought my Renault Zoe the sister's car of Nisan Leaf two years ago. It is 40 kw battery from LG chem with active cooling. One thing you missed in your report that I loved! I am not sure what are electricity prices in Australia, but here in Israel I saved the difference between the Zoe and similar size car the Clio. The Kona the Ioniq were not presented here in the land of camels back then. Now you can get almost any brand except for Tesla.
Amos Biran a rough comparison of energy prices in Australia 🇦🇺 . Today you get about 4kWh of Electricity ⚡️ for 1 Litre of Petrol ⛽️ , though both vary across the country.
The best I have watched from you and balanced points 👍
This video was fiction at the start, there is no way a football player would jump over an opponent and not take a dive and cry like a baby. 😁
Diving and crying like a baby is a football ritual he has missed.
WRONG.
Not AT the stard but FROM the start. :)
If much more people get an ev, evs will be cheaper so ther will be more of them. This means at some point there will not be enough electrical power in the grid to accomodate all these evs charging. Thus the idea of evs is ridiculous, unless the ev price remains high enough so that only a small proportion of the people will be able to afford them. Then those rich(er) people will have one more reason to despise the poor(er) people (because you know, those degenerates don't event care about mother Earth's future, etc.). So yeah, the ev idea seems really great.
@@SerbanCMusca-ut8ny Does the concept of 'generate more electricity' ring a bell to you? And yes, at some time the capacity of the grid itself will be reached. That means it will have to be upgraded. That costs time and money. But that doesn't mean it can't happen.
Serban C. Musca Are you sure about that? I remember that NZ did a report into this and decided that there was plenty of generation to cover many millions of cars.
And at some point, Australia might decide that wind and solar would be better than coal.
No doubt I say since movies are done we had a new A new category to the Academy Awards best performance by a footballer
Great to see you talk about fuel security. I think this is a greatly overlooked benefit of EV's.
One major reason I started to consider buying a Leaf was because I know that one day, Israel is going to bomb Iran and set the whole Persian Gulf on fire.
5 year old Nissan Leaf owner here, I agree I can’t go as far , kinda why my car is 1/5 the cost of the Kona :) i haven’t used my ice car for months, it just sits there for when I leave the city sometime :) my leaf can even lose 50% of its range in the next 5 years and I can still get to work and back :) I’d never compare my leaf against a Tesla or Kona , they are longRange ice competitors. For me I’d be jusT carting around expensive batteries for 95% of the time.
I got an e-bike instead of a Nissan Leaf.
There are a couple of companies starting to make upgraded replacement batteries that nearly double your range and are actually cooled so they actually last a very long time (unlikely Nissans poor engineering) and it actually cost a little less than a factory replacement from Nissan.
@geheimschriver
One of the funny things is is if you increase the battery capacity of the Nissan leaf computer just rolls with it and shows the potential range.
Many people think that Nissan only intended to use their original battery until they can develop a better one but after they were Mass producing it it did not make financial sense to change to a better battery.
Just alike and whatever car or truck you drive now you can put whatever size battery you want in it as long as it's the same voltage.
the early model Nissan's will take forever to charge with a giant battery battery like that but a lot of them did come with "fast charging" which would make them still pretty usable even with a larger battery.
there's several companies out there already making replacement batteries or you could just do it yourself (it's really not that complicated especially compared to a normal car)
Also just like the Toyota Prius the battery are composed of rectangular cells that are very easy to replace individually.
A $3 Bluetooth OBD2 reader and the leaf spy app can tell you which cells exactly need to be replaced (or just charged up by themselves since Nissan's BMS sucks azz)
I I've done it quite a few times and the hardest part is actually removing the pack itself(a table with wheels made out of 4 x 4 fence post bolted together and a lift makes the leaf battery pretty easy to remove (a local shop charges me $200 to pull the battery out so I can replace the cells and then they reinstall it)
and the hardest part about taking the battery out of a 2010 or older Priusis just getting the interior trim and rear seats out of your way then you can simply lift the pack out ( I actually have one and my garage right now waiting for the replacement cells to come)
Anyway I'm not sure if you just don't know what you're talkin about or if you just being a troll
Here's a couple of links to some Nissan leaf upgrade battery info if you want to get a little knowledge instead of spreading misinformation like an idjit.
muxsan.com/English/index.html
fenix.systems/leafbattery
longtailpipe.com/2019/09/16/a-2011-leaf-with-a-60-kwh-battery-pack-and-400-km-driving-range/
Jestronix Handerson
"kinda why my car is 1/5 the cost of the Kona" - I think you've got that arse-about. A Kona costs 1/5 more than a Leaf but is far more likely to keep carting its expensive batteries around long after the Leaf has given up entirely.
Even if you buy the cheapest Leaf and the dearest Kona. The Leaf is still 65% of the cost of a Kona. Not 20%
Hey John, well done, another great one. One little note, you're correct that the liquid fuels pack a lot more energy per kg than current EV batteries, but a far smaller percentage of the energy is being transformed into kinetic energy, compared to the EV. The liquid fuels still have the quick fill benefit, even with the quickest chargers in the market, no argument there. The difference is not 8 times but more like 2 to 3 times. Petrol is about 25 to 30% efficient (depending on the engine age, design age etc.) while EVs are about 95% plus efficient mostly. Note, I work in Oil and Gas, drive a 5 lit supercharged V8 4wd (amongst other petrol burners) and am a EV and renewable energy fan at the same time, not an green nutcase, well not entirely :) Oh, and I live in a country with 80+ % renewable electricity generation.
Whoa! This is the first time I have heard the the word "ontologically" used in a non technical discussion. Well done sir.
Enjoyed your comments. Well thought out and well expressed.
There is one advantage to EVs that you missed, though, in terms of energy consumption. Here in the US, EVs are rated, among other things, on their energy consumption as an equivalent of miles per gallon ("Murica"). Our Kia Niro EV, which has the same drive train as the Kona, has averaged 4.1 miles/KwH (= 15 KwH/100 km). That's the energy equivalent of 138 MPG.
So our overall consumption of energy is far lower than when we burned dead dinosaurs.
So it's more efficient than a Tesla? Don't tell Elon, he might cry.
@@taterkaze9428 The 2020 Tesla M3 SR+ is rated at 141 MPGe by US EPA, so no worries on that front, mate!
For comparison, the Kona is rated 120 and Niro 112 MPGe on the same tests.
Great review. If you think 7kW is a jet engine, you need to see how many 50kW+ chargers we have in NZ between Wellington & Auckland.
If wake up and realize you forgot to charge & 'only' have 145km of range, you can drive for an hour & half, then have lunch, and be fully charged before you've finished your combo.
Wow. Mister Cadogan, I, too, am an engineer (mechanical), and I am also a gearhead. Judging from appearances, we are suffering from approximately the same number of trips around the sun.
This video, I must say, is, by quite a long distance, the best of yours I have watched. Indeed, you have inspired me to give a second look toward electric vehicles.
My main issue, as you mentioned, is that there is not enough generating nor transmission capacity anywhere in the world to support many millions of electric vehicles. People, especially most "greenies" and all politicians, have no idea about how much energy is used in moving people and "things" from place to place in a large, continentally-distributed economy.
Thank you for your talent, time, and effort used in producing these -- especially THIS! -- videos.
By the way, where can I get a "C" hat exactly like the one you wore in this production?
There is enough generating capacity and power line infrastructure to charge EV. To put it into perspective. Your house would have a 60A supply. Let's say that to be conservative you can only draw 32A. Or about 7kw.
That is equivalent to turning on your cook top while running the oven and boiling water that is without considering any other load at home. I am sure this happens every day at about dinner time. So that would be the equivalent of charging on the big charger. So the grid can already cope with that kind of load and it does every day for that peak time. This does not take into consideration all the available capacity needed to power commercial premises. And every day when people go to sleep all that capacity sits there being wasted while we all sleep and having been paid for already. Wouldn't it be great if it could be used by say charging EVs? The electricity companies at least here in Australia have what is called a controlled load. It means they can turn the power off when they don't have enough electricy and turn it back on when they have too much. In my house the controlled load turns on at around 9pm and off at about 5am. 8hr is probably enough to charge most EVs.
@@franciscoshi1968: Nope. Sorry, but a few hundred EV's is one thing; many millions is another thing altogether. In California alone there are more than fifteen million (15,000,000 -- a really big number!) motor vehicles registered. There is absolutely no way with the current (Do you see what I did there?) system to keep even half that many charged and operating.
As I said, most people have no idea about how much energy is required to move people and goods about in today's world.
@@franciscoshi1968: By the way, my house has a 200-Amp supply at 240 Volts. This is "average" in my area. Even with a minuscule number of EV's, California does not have enough generating/distribution capacity to keep up with demand, forcing the Independent System Opertator (ISO) to force "rolling blackouts" upon us in the afternoon and evening hours. This is "third-world" stuff, but things would be much worse with people attempting to charge millions of electric vehicles.
@@edwatts9890 if you have blackouts at peak time without EVs then you really have serious problems. EVs could help to solve the problem by putting solar everywhere and use the EVs as mobile batteries to soak up the solar but if you have grid problems it means some one in government has not been making the right decisions and using EVs to solve the problem would not be in their list of possible solutions.
A good example of where it would not be a problem is England where the grid controllers watch tv so they can preemptively increase generation for when ads come on and everyone makes a cup of tea in sync.
@@edwatts9890 you are not going to get 15M EVs overnight. Even if EVs became the norm today it will take many years before it becomes a problem. That would give the grid enough time to increase capacity but it seems California has problems in that area. I don't know enough about the situation there so I can't comment but there are many other places where it would not be a problem.
Nice coverage J.
ICE to EV owner here - Kona oddly - I live in the Scottish Highlands (cold/wet/windy) and get paid by my electricity provider to charge my car when there is overproduction of electricity in Scotland (which with wind power happens a lot here). Its easier to 'give it away' than turn off the wind, and helps balance the grid.
There is also a network of charging stations in Scotland run by the Scottish Government, many of which are free.
Soon I'll be installing a small turbine (4.5Kw) to help charge my car. Garage forecourts are a thing of the past.
Robert Logan there had to be one upside to living in Scotland 🏴 💨 ☔️ ☁️
I've been watching you for about 3 years John, simply because I adore your unique blend of cheeky larrikin, competent engineer and witty insight-giver. Yet for all the quality content, some of your rhetoric on EVs was based on outdated and/or inaccurate information. However, over the 3 years, I've seen a gradual change. You have slowly become more balanced in your critiques on EVs, and I praise you for it. Truth be told I've probably offered my own share of EV evangelizing in the comments section, but hopefully never to a Jonestown devotee degree. I can be passionate, but I do always endeavor to be fair in my opinions. Keep the great content coming John, whether it be EV or ICE related, and I'll consume with relish. Hmm, sounds like I was describing a cold-cuts sandwich. Your show is the cold-cuts sandwich of auto news and reviews.
Come on. The 'cheeky larrikin' schtick is tedious, self-indulgent and makes the video twice as long as it needs to be.
@@PeterEVcharade it may not be for all, but there are a thousand others on here not doing it. A person can go to any one of those to get the unadorned version of auto news. I quite like both types depending on my mood
Thanks John. May I suggest another important factor for consideration in future ICV and EV comparisons - Maintenance.
OK. So John puts an interesting take on the Kona EV that gets overlooked by other reviewers. The Energy Security FUD factor. Why? That's what media people look for in their 'reviews' of products, and at least John is willing to call it as he sees it. But, do not forget who ultimately will run the Coal and Oil industries in your region, and what influence they have on your 'energy security'. Hey, wait, we in Australia can use our own 'Solar Energy', and deprive central gov't of all the billions that they are siphoning of the last petro dollar. Don't kid yourself. The minions in Canberra are thinking right now, how they can introduce new 'taxes' on your own solar energy. (They just won't use the word 'Tax'. They will call it Energy Infrastructure improvement levy, when there are more than 10% drop in oil tax (road tax) revenues, claiming it is a 'national emergency' or some made up sound bite. The levy will get added to every solar panel imported and hooked up to the national grid. (Don't get me started on billions in royalties exported already to the likes of Samsung or LG for solar infrastructure).
While the Kona is a step forward, it is not the last word, since the last Oil refinery was shut down in Australia in 2014, the major influence of the big oil concerns has not diminished the contribution level so that various levels of gov't are insulated from the price of oil, and its subsequent "Carbon Cost" being exported to the other refining nations of the region. Once their respective nations increase their "Carbon Tax", then, the economics of owing a EV will appear even better than they are now.
Very well done video John, high quality production mate.
Excellent review John I’ve been waiting for ages for u to do this, and you spotted and explained the benefits I hoped u would. Well done. Oh and that wrx driver, was me. Used to drive STI. now drive the standard range Tesla (sorry... not sorry) Model 3.
Isolation switch is for servicing the unit.
You likely have one on your outdoor A/C compressor so the service person can control the power to the device.
Nothing says goodnight like someone in the house seeing a breaker switched off and just flip it on killing the guy outside.
got my 2019 sonic red kona EV. truthfully, hated it, for maybe the first 3 months, thought I make a huge mistake. but as I learned how to drive it and exploit the regen braking and power I just simply found it fit its purpose perfectly and now enjoy it .my 50 mile round trip daily commute, free charging at work. just about ZERO servicing was the main reason I got the thing really.Wanna lay down some rubber? oh that's easy. an EV would not make an only car for a family but that's why we have our Avalon,which I love also. we had a click short of $13K tax credit. you have solar at home ? Oh man your ready ! I agree with John, the next tires will be a bit more performance oriented but in the hands of an experienced pilot the drive in our local mountains is thrilling,but I've been riding them on a performance motorcycle for 30 years, so I know the road.
Excellent production, useful as always.
Excellent factual summary.
I always start with the insanely low running costs (incl servicing) and performance, with emphasis on the instant response. You're always in the right gear as it's only got one!
Bonus points for saving kids lungs with local emissions.
Great point on energy security and I'll be stealing that one in the future.
Climate change might get a distant casual mention at best.
Yes, funny how concern for local emissions and health is acceptable but translate that concern to a global scale and suddenly you get called a "green nutcase". Oh well, if we can get the right wingers, shock jock listeners and bogans on board with the performance and fuel security arguments, then we all get to benefit.
Peter Campbell
Indeed. I guess, for some people it boils down to
"Think local, act local"
Some on here would argue the Mingmolls showing up in your videos is a ritual of this channel
It is...
And long may it continue
I had expectations the masked chick @2:43 was going to get her togs off for a second there though...
@@AutoExpertJC Best kind of ritual!
It keeps ones mind out of the gutter...oh wait.
If money matters, as it does to most people, the premium you pay for an EV and petrol selling for 66 cents AUD per liter here in the U.S. makes it a hard pill to swallow.
Australia's dependence on oil imports is an effective argument for EVs. 'Murica is exporting oil so that doesn't carry much weight here.
If an EV can ever be produced at the same price as a comparable ICE they will begin to make a real dent in total automobile sales. Until then... not so much.
pete smyth a whole 5 minutes? Wow, takes me about 10 seconds to plug/unplug my car. The rest of the day and evening is then all mine. Horses for courses. And really, heavy “toxic” batteries? If we are going to play that game, you do know you are effectively sitting on top of a bomb?
I agree the big impediments to EV adoption now is the price of the batteries and they cost of servicing and rebuilding the batteries. Solid state batteries may provide the paradyne shift EVs need to replace ICE vehicles Solid state batteries may take another 5-10 years to develop and deploy.
@@stuarthirsch I'm old enough to remember when you could have a lead-acid automobile battery rebuilt. When was the last time that made any sense? I suspect that rebuilding EV batteries won't be much better. It's those evil economics again. It's going to cost $100/hr U.S. to have someone remove the battery, get it apart, accurately diagnose which cells are bad, replace the cells (and you know the battery maker didn't care how hard they would be to replace), put it all back together, then install and test it. Then what have you got? I wouldn't warranty a rebuilt battery over 30 days. Mixing old and new cells in a battery usually makes the old cells fail more quickly than they otherwise would have. Now the customer is out all that money for a battery that may be worse than the one he had to start with in a relatively short period of time.
In my opinion, all those "rebuildable" EV batteries are going to end up like all the "recyclable" plastic... piled up somewhere waiting to go into a landfill because "new" is cheaper.
@pete smyth At least you are taking a reasonable approach to the whole "energy security" FUD factor, and using the resources that are available in your region.
But be careful, since the kool-aid drinkers might just try to eliminate your ingenious use of a self made solution.
In Central Canada we had a government that was using the natural resources of the region for the fuels that made the most sense up until about 2004. (Hydro power coupled with coal for peak loads, Nuclear and Hydro for base loads).
Then the 'new thinkers' got elected, and with the wails of the 'Greens' in their ear, the government of the day saw fit to tax the hell out of industrial electricity production so that more than 60% of Industrial Manufacturing left the region for other lands.
More than 80% of pre 2004 jobs were replaced by minimum wage "service industry" type support and infrastructure type wages. This now has de-stabilized the manufacturing sector so much that the recent Covid-19 pandemic saw the US pose export restrictions on the basic materials for mask production, that in turn forced the state government to "donate" over CAD$750m in grants to the very same US manufacturers instead of developing our own PPE solution.
Be wary of the kool-aid sellers, whatever stripe of clothing they may wear at the moment, be it Labor[US, Labour in CA] or National/Liberal.
What a cool way of doing an EV Kona review, you've just gotta love it :)
Probably the most level-headed review and overall observation of an EV and the plus/minus evaluation of the technology in general.
This is a good review. As a card carrying Tesla fan, I still don't like you, but you've done a good job with this review and raised all of the very sensible points about the benefits of EV ownership. Hat's off to you Sir, this is one of your videos that I won't be mashing the dislike button for. I also made it all the way to the end... So there you go!
"I still don't like you" lol, nice - yes I'm not sure what JC has it in for EJ, it's a rum thing.
Soul destroying at the pumps when you want say £40 (UK} and it clicks over to £40.01p.
Great video.
What did you think of the Kona? Any chance of a review?
Great to see a balanced BEV video including the wider community and security benefits of ownership. Look forward practical and common sense discussions on BEV's becoming more wider spread and mainstream in Australia. We're a bit behind the eight ball here given lack the lack of emissions standards and the like.
greengrub Wooden Toys Australia. We are a bit behind the eight ball here because we have to pay the Australia tax and the government is so vehemently opposed to EVs that they provide no subsidies or tax concessions on them at all.
I bet that car is twice the price here in Shitsville as it is in Retardistan!
From the performance and maintenance side of things, EV's are great. I can't see myself going back to an ICE car unless it was a classic V8 of some sort :D
NA V10 or V8 is the only good thing left about ICE. That amazing Exhaust Sound for cruising. Turbo crap needs to die.
@@Neojhun Have you ever owned a real turbo car? One that has a drivetrain matched to the turbo?
DoctorLarry I’m curious - what car would that be?
@@mrjonashn R32 GTR Skyline or the Audi Quattro maybe?
@@mrjonashn Toyota Supra MKIV - the real Supra. The 2JZ-GTE will take all sorts of power and ask for more.
The process to fuel an ice car, all the energy burned getting it to the fuel station, extraction ,shipping, refining, trucking.
To Fuel an EV plug it in 👍.
Great points about the cleaner air and energy security.
But I can fuel my ICE car in 5 minutes for a 500-mile range. I can go thousands of miles in a few days. I can pull a 10,000-lb trailer for 400 miles. I can drive my sports car full speed for hours at a road course. And after each of those, I can refuel in five more minutes.
There are advantages to both. EVs are good for things unlike those I listed.
DoctorLarry the vast majority of motorists will not be doing most of the things with their cars as you have described.
Most will do the average daily commute to work etc charge at home at night etc.
I do not own an EV yet I drive a diesel, but will look at EV at trade in time.
@@proximaone1350 But everything I said is true and many folks still do at least one of those things. It is fine to have a commuter car of you choice but to denigrate the functionality of ICE vehicles is dumb. BTW - start counting up all the energy required to build the EV, build the batteries, and build the extra electricity generation. I don't make special trips to fuel my ICE vehicles, fueling stations are everywhere.
@@doctorlarry2273 BUT you still have to go to one. Most EV owners simply go home and plug it in and it is FULL when they wake up to a new day never having to go to any station at all.
@@Coltn3125 Did you read either of my comments with your eyes open? Gas stations are everywhere - I don't go out of my way to fuel up.
Here is an exercise for you and your EV with a full charge in the morning: (1) Hook up a 10,000 lb trailer, (2) tow it 400 miles, .....oh wait.
OK try this - drive coast-to-coast in four days.
Got it? ICE vehicles still have a place and need, period.
Absolutely superb report John - measured, highly informed and not the highly opinionated misinformation that you get from many other commentators. First class job. Now you've had it on loan for three months, are you smitten enough to consider buying one?
Not a mention of the Rapid charging networks. Yes the best EV video you have done. For me I charge my EV from 6KW roof solar and a large battery system. 18 months of no petrol stations. I will not save the planet, but life is good. Our own water, a lot of our own home grown food, our Solar and EV (cheap second hand import). For us it about the security of our family we went through a major flood and no power for 11 days. A fire burnt our home to the ground. Hard lessons to learn from.
Evolution is inevitable, John. We are living the times of change. Following Moore's Law or the speculative oil prices. Choices must be chosen. Yesterday we answered calls from analog telephones, today we use digital smartphones. In my country, we don't have roof antennas any more, now the telly is fed by cable. We just can't stop it. Great review, by the way.
ICE and EV are two completely different technologies, and no, EV is not an evolution of ICE. Only a better technology can make a previous one obsolete. How will you make ICE obsolete? Is it back to trolley buses and trams? Remember those days before the automobile? When every city had a tram network for the poor people of the city?
Nothing replaces ICE.
@@berenscott8999 Smartphones replaced the handphone. No need to be a cry baby. Remember there was a time that you couldn't access the internet to write your frustrations? People would go to the bar instead in those times people didn't use computer. look at you now typing on a keyboard instead of a typing machine. Look at Norway, how are you going to change their minds with your rhetoric? Accept and adapt, that has been the human nature for hundreds of thousands of years.
John will have to select the condiment of his choice, to dine on his chosen headwear, when electric cars become de rigueur ...
14:40....EXACTLY my point. if you pay 25K over the same car on petrol, then it doesn't matter if you get 8 years of warranty on the battery, because it will take you 8 years of driving until you recoupe those 25K from the price difference to petrol+maintanence of the vehicle.
The only way EV's are going to take more than 10% market share, is if the buyers could recoupe the purchase price differential in 2-3 years of driving. The people who can afford an extra 25K will not keep their cars long enough to actually benefit from it, and the people who keep their cars long enough, will not spend 25K extra on a small(ish) car.
@@shane250 Good point, sweety.
When is a hater not a hater? When he/she is a clear thinker. Not unlike Mr John Cadogan.
Yep, I watch this channel for exactly that - clear thinking driven by facts. I do have one issue with John's take on the miracle of oil / ICE, however, which is that oil producers and consumers do not pay all the costs. Indeed, that's probably capitalism's greatest trick - that if costs can be transferred to some future time and future person, then we don't have to pay those costs now. If we had to pay the full cost of oil production and consumption NOW, including repairing the environment and ecosystem (jobs that we're leaving for some other poor bastard to clean up) then the ICE miracle wouldn't look half as clever.
@@russelldaylight261 Where would we be now if we had never used petrochemicals?
@@LegoDork Mate, that's a strawman argument. Like saying every criticism of neoliberal capitalism is equal to advocating communism. All I'm arguing is that a COST v COST argument should now include future costs that we have a better understanding of than before.
So you're saying John has been an unclear thinker and heavily negative against if not an outright hater of BEVs for the past 7 years approximately, almost as if his job security had depended upon it, but now he belatedly sees which way the wind is blowing and at least has the minimal wit needed to jump from the sinking ship?
If so, I concur!
So well said John. So well said. Just one thing I would have liked you to have mentioned, especially in relation to Government ineptitude is Vehicle to Grid and what a difference that would make, being able to suckle from the teat of EV's so to speak.
I did not know what to expect when I saw this video shared in an EV Facebook group, nicely done, funny, excellent information and interesting opinion piece. Thanks for sharing! 🙂
I'm glad you liked it, and thank you for watching.
When you hit the regen anchor button, do the brake lights come on?
Yes - there's a g-sensor, I think.
@@AutoExpertJC Crikey mate, working overtime!
Yes they do as well as when you are in adaptive cruise control and the car in front slows down.
The regen braking comes on when you take your foot off the accelerator, cruise control brakes, put you foot lightly on the brake pedal or pull the paddle (I never do this - always use the full regen and accelarator). In all cases the brake light turns on.
I hope not
My old man bought a Kona a little while ago. Apart from being a little small when I'm in the back seat, it's pretty great. Not had any issue with range - plenty of fast chargers around if needed. He couldn't give a stuff about Green crap, he just got it as an interesting toy.
Buying an EV is good for the world compared to buying an ICE vehicle. As to why he bought it - that doesn’t matter. He’s saving money when filling up amongst other things.
That's great though the climate crisis should be a concern nevertheless
and the green crap isn't crap. It's real. only idiots would ignore a threat.
Very good tutorial John,EV’s are still quite expensive but you have explained it well. How much was the charging station again!
This video is one of the most entertaining and convincing videos I have ever seen with regards to explaining why someone should buy an EV.
It is one I will share with my friends because it contains much technical information that others do not.
Many thanks for taking the time to create such a great video.
Finally a sensible review of what might just be my next car
A balanced review. John could have mentioned many more negative points about EVs. As it is, the Greenie fanatics are rejoicing, thinking he’s been saved.
@@nevillecottee7629 negative points about EVs... nope, can't think of one, except time to charge from empty, but then no reason to let it get empty unless on long road trip, but even then you should stop every 3 hours for a 45 min break.
@@RogerChappellWrites .. no negative points? That’s how religious fanatics think.
Blimey mate! A great endorsement for EVs. Now 18 months in to EV ownership with the e-Niro and the ritual of having to pull off the road, pump poisonous chemicals and pay lots of money for it is thankfully in the past. In fact it takes on average 8 minutes to pull off the road, put motion lotion into the tank, pay for it and get back on the road..and that’s assuming no queues. I get home, plug in an go do something else, there is less wasted time owning and EV and 90% of the time it is more convenient, only needing a little planning on long trips. Two months after getting the car last year I was facing a dilemma. Having to go to get petrol for the lawnmower, brush cutter and chainsaw..and make the 2 stroke mix for the trimmer and saw..It seemed kind of weird driving to the filling station in an EV to buy fossil fuel..So I got myself an electric lawnmower and brush cutter then last winter a chainsaw, all Li-On powered. We have 2 acres here plus an acre of woodland that I coppice for firewood so I need powerful tools that work. Electric motors and Li-On batteries are superior for just about any job you care to name. Internal combustion is such a pain, oil and filter changes, smell and mess. Check my channel to see how and why I ditched fossil fuels. Kia e-Niro Diaries.
Is the chainsaw powerful enough for larger trunks? I will need one for fallen trunks when 4WDing. How long does the battery last?
@@unfurling3129 First up, I am in no way an expert in chainsaws. When we moved to France in 2013 we ended up with a hectare or land close to the house, the land is bordered with woodlands and we own the first 3 metres or so of those trees which need tidying and coppicing where necessary. Also with the house and 3 mins walk away is another acre of woodland which had been neglected and has lots of fallen and dead standing tress in it. We have been slowly tidying it up, doing a bit each winter, marking up the trees that don’t come into leaf in the spring. Our only source of heating is wood burning stoves (3) and this coming winter all our heating wood will come from our own land. Coppicing is done every 20 years or so around here so parcels of woodland of 1 or 2 acres get taken out every so often and the speed of re-growth is astonishing. What I have found going from the Stihl petrol to a slightly bigger electric saw is chain speed..and the electric saw has that. This saw was about €300 but we already had two battery packs for it from the purchase of a lawn mower last year..Would have liked to have a Bosch but couldn’t justify the costs, though this e-Gopower stuff seems to work well and we really hammer our garden equipment having the size of garden we do. You’re welcome to check out this video and you can see the kind of trees I am cutting with it. Not something a professional would use but working well for us so far. th-cam.com/video/ixDpsAkzjug/w-d-xo.html
8 minutes of choking on vapors.
Quite a good video john, honest and informative !
I drive daily around 30-90km. I mainly use 230V 8A ~1,8kW charging at home "the little box". Average consumption on my car is around 12kWh/100km (e-golf). I do all my charging mainly at night when electricity is cheap, usually less than 10€/MWh. Some times even less than 1€/MWh. Avarage daily charging time is 4 hours, maximum around 6 or 7. I do ~2000km in the month. Basicly I do not need more charging power since my car consuption is really low and I do not make long trips often. Large SUV's will suffer from higher consuption and therefore may need more charging power.
Awesome review.
However, I think the Kia E-Niro (based on the Kona BEV) looks better.
Any word on when it's coming to AU?
Apparently it's selling like hotcake in the EU.
obviously only one opinion, but I think the e-niro looks dated
Well, I might just go out and buy one now, thanks John
I test drove one and he is right, it's a torque monster!
Very good Review John! muchly appreciated. Do you buy one now?
Hey nice work. How long does it take to charge on DC quick charger.
John, the only thing that’s changed over the last couple of years in the EV world is your opinion! Better late than never I suppose. I must say, being aware of your high engineering intellect your uninformed criticism of electric cars has been quite irritating. It’s only appropriate that you give away humble pie to the first one hundred comments. Tasty thanks😂
i Live in Denmark and my Kona 64 has a 3 fase 11kwh charger, i charge ones a week at night. so easy. and the 450km pr charge is real world figures. some weeks i can drive over 500 km on a charge
Poul Eichel 450km at highway speeds lines up with what a local owner told me in Australia 🇦🇺
To achieve this mileage cruising speed, I take it, is not more than 100 - 105 km/h? I'm curious what mileage you would have when you, say, drive 130-140 km p/h. I'm asking this for a friend :-)
Hey John, mate, over the course of the eval period you've already had the Kona EV, what has the impact been on your electric bill? Has there been any really noticeable difference or has it balanced out? (Taking out the purchase and installation of the charger at the house, of course.)
I have been driving EVs since 2009. Electricity is much cheaper per km than petrol for a comparable vehicle.
@@PeterEVcharade This is certainly very true for UK. My commute fuel bills went from about £200 per month to about £40. Big difference. If I switched to a night time tariff account (which I might) could come down to £10.
Informative Video mate!
Two points on the environmental benifits. On its own, on our coal heave grid - no, its not going to single handedly save the world. No one is suggesting that.
What it does do incrementally help. Even on Victoria's brown coal, there is a slight improvement in C02 emissions. In Tasmania's hydro grid, its waaaay better.
The other point is that the car gets better as the grid gets better - a petrol car will only get worse as it ages, the EV gets better.
Every EV purchase helps, and collectively over time in conjunction with some decent renewable generation (in accordance with the AEMO plans) it all adds up.
So your battery never degrades? Really!
pomaze1 So your engine never wears out?
Batteries are now essentially good for the life of the vehicle. Tesla and Hyundai warrant theirs for 8 years, reality they’ll last much longer. Then be either repurposed for another 8-10 years use in a stationary use, or recycled.
@@pomaze1 All parts of the battery are recyclable...into new batteries
@@pomaze1 What happens if you get an ICE vehicle and an EV, put them both in park or neutral, turn them on with the accelerator flat to the floor and leave it there for 30 seconds? Which one degrades the fastest?
If you want to see what's inside the box on the included charging cable, mikeselectricstuff made a video tearing down one last year.
In summary on what's inside, a small +/-12v power supply, a microcontroller and 2 relays one for each of the main current pins.
The box sends out a pwm signal corresponding to the maximum current it can deliver (1%duty cycle per 0.6A), the car will put a load on the signal, this wil tell the microcontroller to enable the relays.
Todays trip, 120 kms to the 'seaside', plug into charge point , go for lunch, a bit of shopping and a decent walk, Back to car drive home 120kms, arrive home with 119 kms range left, spent 5 seconds plugging into home charger. That was in a 40 LEAF.
Last visit to petrol station was Feb to buy petrol for lawnmower.
The Kona is on my list for the future.
Great review, thx John.
Sidebar: Internal Combustion Engines, at best, waste about 80% of the energy as heat, so only a small amount gets used to actually move you to where you want to go.
Or another way, your spending 20 cents (at best) out of every dollar to go somewhere and setting fire to the other 80 cents.
@@valerierodger7700 great info asterisk.
Hope we can get a second review with some more details please
There are plenty of those on net, have a look at Bjorn videos
Excellent video John. Your best yet, production and content far better than anything else out there on the internet.
A few questions/comments. How long do you think it will take for us to see electric semi's on the road travelling the long distances needed in Oz?
Also, you look like you live in a house similar to mine 1200 sq m block about 350 sq m house big double garage. No worries plugging into the garage setup. But what if you live in Europe etc, or in inner city suburbs, or a Pom where the average new home is around 70 sq m (Australia close to 250 sq m). No garage. Park in street etc. What are the problems that need to be overcome? When I was in England 12 months ago (pre COVID) there was a news item on TV that said sales of EV cars were down on the previous 12 months. This is despite legislation and subsidies to encourage EV takeup. It is obviously a much more complex issue than the average punter has been led to believe.
Thank goodness you have gone back to using your engineering and mechanical skills. Once more you have provided a well argued and interesting analysis. Many of us I suspect, who want to do the right thing, are looking at alternatives in terms of transport. Your assistance in this is appreciated. Over here in Noo Zeeland, even though we have 80% renewable electricity, there are few government incentives to look at less polluting forms of transportation. However when my 8 year old Kia Sorrento eventually goes to the knackers yard in the sky I would like to be able to purchase a less polluting alternative. Your interesting and informative contributions will assist me, and others in this.
Keep up the good work.
(I was worried about what appeared to be a recent non car contribution which seemed as if it was a bid to be the next Prime Mincer. As bad as the politicians are they would eat you for breakfast. Stick to what you are good at.
John Rothery (Tauranga)
John Rothery shouldn’t need government intervention if it saves you money
The 'Granny charger' is for emergency only.
Most EV users never charge away from home!
If your Kona range is 350 Km, you will have that EVERY DAY as you leave home.
Very rarely will you need to fully charge at home.
Usually you will have more than 50% range left or more when you get home, so charging is a few hours only.
Also you can set your charger, with the timer, to charge with cheap Electricity, overnight.
That's why I like the longer range cars, it gives you a bit more flexibility in that you only need to charge every second or third day instead of every night with a shorter range like a Leaf. A bit like having a nice big bank account. As long as your net balance is good you don't need to sweat the individual transactions, just make sure it is the same every month.
Actually one thing I spotted was the Hyundai portable charger he said 10amp only. Didn’t seem to have replaceable plug either. Other portable chargers like the one Tesla provides, can do higher power by replacing the mains socket for instance 15amp or even 3 phase in some models. Useful for instance I read of somebody stopping in mt isa and using the socket at the show grounds where food trucks normally plug in. In fact there’s a whole network of 3 phase sockets around Australia for 3 phase portable charging.... soooo.. Hyundai should improve that. (Or people can of course buy one of the fancy weatherproof ones but they are a tad expensive...) .... anyway Hyundai just a thought.
@@grinblurnar The hyundai 10A portable charge cord is all I bother to use at home with my Kona where slow charging doesn't matter. it is reasonable for Hyundai to supply a maximally useful, lowest common denominator charge cord, ie 10A three pin.
I also have another portable cord that is adjustable to 32A/15A/10A/6A with plug adaptors. I leave that in the car for use elsewhere such as those 32A three phase outlets, although the car will only use 1 phase.
al edg There are DC chargers already installed capable of delivering up to 350kW. Check out PlugShare app or website 🔌
Nobody Famous yeah I’ve used several. I’m more talking about remote areas where the big infrastructure isn’t there yet. Australian electric vehicle association had hundreds of 3 phase sockets installed around Australia they’re all over. Also visible on plugshare. But need a portable charger better than that Hyundai one to use them.
Sold my XR8 12 months ago for an EV, have never looked back, I save $3500 in fuel per year and $1500 in servicing. I leave home most days with a full tank and charge on solar. There are more charging places than phone charging outlets. There are far more phone charging outlets than petrol stations!
I shit you not!!
I had heard that fast chargers cause damage to the battery if you charge fast very often. Is there a connection between speed of charge and battery life?
I am with you on the filling station experience.
I am from a state that has virtually 100% renewable electricity.
You are from a state that has "virtually" 100% renewable energy.
I am from one of several states that subside your state financially so that it is not an economic basketcase and so it can afford wind turbines.
RDDHopsing77 What bollocks. Renewables are now the cheapest form of power when lifetime costs are considered. Here in the U.K. we are hardly known for our sunshine, yet wind and solar provide a third of our annual electricity needs and are not subsidised, and we still have some of the cheapest power in Europe.
@@RDDHopsing77 you’re plainly incorrect, but there’s plenty of room, gonna now go have a walk by the creek in the warm sun, maybe go surfing later. you do you bro
I love how EV fans “irrational” for having come to the exact same conclusions you did, only several years earlier. Welcome to the dark side!
Ha! i just said pretty much the same. These knuckleheads have to be beaten upside the head before they understand what's best for them.
What's next? Videos on how smoking can adversely affect your health?
It is the shiny side.
Did you listen to all of the video? He made the distinction between those that know the facts and the ones that don't. Those are the irrational ones.
Denial, denial. Oh crumbs... mugged by reality.
I've had a 2020 Kona EV Ultimate for 6 months, and absolutely love it. RE: the included trickle charger - it's great when traveling. We stayed at an AirBnB and plugged in the trickle charger while we were at the condo. It added enough range to get us home without having to pay for a fast-charge.
Explained everything you need to know what a good work legend
I sold my dumb big box on the wall that came with my car and bought a smart "Zappi" big box on the wall that can either charge overnight or, in eco+ mode, charge only from my solar panels when they are exporting to the grid. Clean and very cheap power.
Same... I love my zappi. Thanks to covid my Tesla hasn’t drawn any electrons ‘from the grid’ since March.
Just one correction: you will *not* actually "pay extra" to own an EV. Here's an example:
The cost per kilometer during five years of "normal" usage for a VW ID.3 EV is 0.41€
The cost per kilometer during five years of "normal" usage for a similarly equipped VW Golf 1.5 ICE car is 0.55€
This includes everything: purchase price for the vehicle, fuel costs and maintenance. So it's only "more expensive" if you look exclusively at purchase price. In reality, you pay more in a car loan and much less in fuel and maintenance. Clearly the numbers may vary with region, choice of vehicle etc but I think the point is clear that the "it's more expensive" argument does not hold water.
Initial cost, not TCO
I'd be very interested in knowing the range from fully charged on a 40c day with the A/C on?
Interesting evaluation. Clever in a different way. I have some basic physics to ponder. Refreshing to see a bit of, what looks like, real Aussie landscape at the beginning.
I still can't afford one! 70 odd grand in NZ. Bought a Vitara last year for 27k so 45k difference in petrol and running costs is a lot of ks.
And by the time any rational difference was made (if finance is your "metric") - the EV would be up for a new battery - (We still don't know how well the "current Crop" will fare with typical use cycles - willthey need "recond" - batterypacks at ?? Hundred Thousand km?? (1,2 or 3?? - typical use) ) - and any financial benefit goes away rapidly. EV Powertrains are way overpriced for a couple of motors and some power transistors... (Batteries aside - but them too.)
Maybe converting an ICE vehicle to EV (if legally possible) could be a game changer. New work for mechanics and cheaper price than a brand new car.
Not sure if I'd trust the local guy to rip an engine out and replace the entire running gear to EV. And I suspect that is where the cash actually sits. New tech is never cheap until mainstream uptake and regardless of the numbers of new EVs coming on to the market they are still an emerging technology.
Fascinating vehicles and I've enjoyed the ones I have driven to date, maybe my next car decision won't have such a premium on the EV side but that will be 8 or 10 years down the track. I agree on the battery side though, some sort of standard needs to be worked out to allow updates and upgrades, no-one wants a 7 year old car that won't go anywhere.
“Change is the essential process of all existence.”
...and...
“Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.”
Spock
More info on comparative costs would be interesting. Clearly EV's are way more expensive to purchase at the moment but your opinion/discussion on a crossover point for the equivalent ICE vehicle (2023 anyone?) would be interesting. Also, what has your experience been with the comparative running costs of the Kona?
This is one of the best EV related videos I've seen.
Lol, I love beating WRX drivers at the lights in my Kona EV. I’m completely addicted to the take off. Did a round trip from Brisbane to Melbourne last year and never had a problem. Only paid $24 total at public chargers from 4500kms travelled.
Hey john one thing about overnight charging... I’ve read, but I don’t know how true this is, that generally there’s more wind overnight but because power consumption is low wind farms are generally spilling (feathering) in the wee hours... in other words my understanding is if we were to increase overnight electrical load it’s probably the wind farms which would de-feather a bit to provide it. Not sure how true that is... but interesting if it’s true.
This is true. Wind and solar image slightly negatively correlated. There is statistically more prevalent at night.
On top of low demand, it is another good reason for grid providers to drop electricity rates at night, which they do if you have the right tariff :)
The longer term will include V2G so that cara soak up excess power at night, when it's windy, etc, and then they can put power back onto the grid at peak times (4-8pm), with the car owners getting paid rent on their batteries. This is happening in the UK with Octopus Energy and Ovo for example.
Sorry, but this is misinformation.
In Australia,, and i believe most countries, wind power rarely meets overnight demand, and is never “feathered” to reduce output !
Minimum overnight demand in Au is 18 GW, and we only have 7 GW max of wind power installed.
John also had it wrong about power being ‘“wasted” overnight, it is not, it is simply turned down at the generation plants or at least used in pumped hydro to store energy for peak demand periods.
For every 1kW extra demand for a charger, an extra kW of generation is produced, and extra coal is burned.
FACTS.
Also, you guys thinking you are charging for free from your Roof top solar, need to go back to tech school and realise that you paid in advance for your charging when you installed your solar.
All reputable analysis puts RT solar as the most expensive form of electricity production !
It is cheaper for you to charge from the grid !
FYI, i do have RT Solar and an EV .
Chad Stapleton
You are right about overnight power causing marginal increase in generation but often that does get supplied by wind which has an effective marginal cost of zero. Of course when coal or gas is used, that's not the case, so the marginal cost to the customer is based on the marginal cost to the generator, which varies based on wind availability. But as demand is low, at least it's not set by the highest price that the energy can be sold for. Ie the price is set by the cost floor, not the auction ceiling.
As for RT solar, it definitely is cheap. My sister has rooftop solar in Perth (put in 18 months ago) and she will have paid for it out of savings on her grid power within another 2 years. After which, maintenance aside, every kWh will have a marginal cost of zero ie it's free!
Michael,
Sorry but no. Very rarely, and only then in SA, does wind supply sufficient to reach even the minimum ovenight demand. So it cannot meet any additional load from EV charging..
Your comments re power costs are irrelavent...the consumer gets charged at the normal retail rate, no matter what the source.
And again , NO ! It is impossible to recover the cost of a RT Solar installation in 2 years... that is BS !
Chad Stapleton
It doesn't satisfy the full load. That's not what I said.
It's the cheapest marginal source so it is always used first and bids down the cost of alternatives when it's in competition.
And wholesale rates set the minimums for what retailers can sell, so they do put downward pressure on prices.
And yes, my sister's PV is going to pay for itself in 3-4 years. You can call me a liar if you like, but the sums aren't that hard to do for yourself. Even my Dad's PV in England pays back in 7 -8 years.
I've had an EV for over three years now, not because I'm a greenie and trying to save the planet and all that BS but because I got pissed off by the oil companies here in Australia putting the price of petrol up every few weeks and then slowly dropping the price down to where it should be.
I might not be far behind in this logic with fuel prices, here in the UK the fuel goes up quick enough but never really comes down. We call it the rocket and feather effect. Rockets up and falls like a feather. Our fuel costs are a fu*king joke and it is mostly tax from our a-hole government, they know the average family is finding it hard to afford travel costs but they dont care. Road tax costs on top of that for good measure and shit roads hit the motorist in every pocket.
If you are going on a long drive can you put 2 jerry cans of electricity in the boot? My car can do 695 miles on a tank, not sure electric can manage that and there aren't many charging stations out in the sticks.