The super voyagers are not the ones that people complain about, they are actually not bad. Its the normal voyagers that cross country run that are terrible.
This! I used to used to commute between chesterfield and Leeds, and the only direct service at the time was XC on their godawful voyager. Always crowded, basically no reasonable standing room and the stench of toilets. Oh the smell! When northern started a nottingham to leeds service calling at chesterfield, I used that. It wasn't as fast and had more stops, and occasionally was a Pacer, but at least it wasn't stinky!
This is the truth. The anxiety of wandering of your train at random will be 4 , 5 , 8 or maybe even 9 carriages. 4 carriages and when you take off 1st, driver compartment , bike storage, luggage storage, DDA toilets - you've got the equivalent of 2.5 carriages. On the 8 train consists I've found the back carriages are always freezing cold
I've done Plymouth-Newcastle a lot and found XC to be packed (from Bristol->Leeds at least) but more comfortable than LNER or even the most recent Eurostar I was on.
I'm not sure about AWC but Cross Country don't have enough capacity and often run four or five cars on quite long and busy routes, because not only trains to London are busy you know
Now they've secured 12 of AWC's Voyagers, which they'll be gaining over the next year to finally sort out their long-running capacity problem (initially 7 to make up for their loss of the HST but an additional 5 has been added on top of that), but unfortunately London-centric intercity trains generate 10x more revenue than any CrossCountry service of a similar loading so the latter consistently gets the short end of the stick.
I've seen packed 4-car trains running Bournemouth - Manchester Picadilly and it was so bad to ride on one to the point I made it a habit to never ride XC unless I didn't have a choice
I love them! They bring the nostalgia of the train travelling in the 80's. The seats are still comfortable, so much better than the card board seats in the Class 800.
@@chrisrowe7503 No actually, the Avanti ones will be transferred to XC and be refurbished along with the rest of the fleet. There are no plans for replacement yet.
7:22 > In France, there's a town of 4000 inhabitants named "Capdenac - Gare" [literally "Capdenac - train station"]. The original city of Capdenac, which still exists today by the way, is located on the left bank of a river while the train station was built on the right bank. When the station oppened, the residents decided to create a second Capdenac city on the right bank and they just named their new city "Capdenac - Station".
Romania features a similar situation, with Lehliu Gară being a town built around the station of the town of Lehliu, some few kilometers apart. Ironically, the train station named town surpasses the other town by a bit of inhabitants and size.
@@andreibegualmost the same case in Spain: the picturesque mountain village of Canfranc built a big station down in the valley, and the town that emerged around the station is now known as Canfranc Estación and has become larger than the original Canfranc and a major tourist hotspot
Plenty places in Denmark didnt exist before the train....my old home changes its name due the name being difficult to differentiate from other names on the line. From Lillerød to Allerød
The Voyagers are not bad trains.......its where they are deployed,that is the problem. Holyhead to London on board a nice refurbished one doesn't sound too bad. I think the bad reputation is all down to CrossCountry's use of them. Edinburgh to Plymouth on one would be absolute torture.
I went to York with XC, going up it was perfect, lovely window seat, quiet, two nice ladies helping me out because I got nervous (due to social anxiety) but on the way back, Jesus Christ it was awful, as it was a 4 car, only one toilet, it took me from Birmingham to Taunton just to use the loo.
@aviationtrainsfc1 I think CrossCountry have gotten away with running a bad service with shabby Voyagers for years due to the fact that there have been worse performing train operating companies making the headlines.....Avanti West Coast and Transpennine Express spring to mind. I know this is slightly off topic for this particular video but I would like to see an open access operator to be given a chance to give CrossCountry some competition.....particularly between York to Bristol.......Flixtrain using redundant mk5s perhaps?
I think they could have been good but they were designed more for headline numbers than passenger satisfaction. I would take more space over tilting any day of the week because there just aren't that many places where tilting makes a noticable difference. I like the way they pull and the way they are laid out but as a well built kind of chap I found far too many times my shoulders meant I was taking up most of the two seats which is less than ideal when they were mainly used on fairly busy routes for their capacity. Funnily enough I was on a heritage railway not long back and had the chance to ride in some BR MK1 coaches. It was shocking just how good they were considering they are mostly just bits of wood nailed together in the 50's. Its as if they were built with peoples comfort in mind rather than how many could be squeezed in.
Now try X-C, with a suitcase, on a busy day & see how you get on. Not sure a review of a trip on an empty train is getting to the heart of why they are 'hated'...!
Agreed. Southampton Central when a cruise ship has come in and its passengers and lots of very big suitcases wanting to get on the XC to all points north is a scrum to be avoided.
As a train, I don't think the Voyagers are as bad as they can sometimes be made out to be. There were broadly two complaints. One was that being multiple units they had engine noise that loco hauled carriages did not, though personally it doesn't bother me too much and they're not as bad as some other units on the network. The other and more critical complaint was overcrowding. Even though this can be a general theme on many a rail service in the UK, it does feel like the Voyagers needed to be longer from the outset and there has always been a desire for more carriages. In terms of ambience though, I feel they are quite decent. Interestingly, regarding some of the "new train" complaints they attracted when introduced about seat-to-window alignment and the comfort of seats, arguably because some newer trains have got much worse in this regard it now makes the Voyagers look better.
9:38 Let’s not forget that it was British Rail’s APT technology that created the Pendolino. There were passive tilt systems in some fairly obscure rolling stock around the world but the APT brought the active tilt principles. The APT also debuted the step that extends from the side of the train before the doors open too, which is also featured on the Pendolino. Also the APT seats are dramatically more comfortable to sit on than the Pendolino, and APT seats are lined up with the windows.
The Pendolino does not use APT's tilt. It uses FIAT's tilt technology which they developed around the same time as APT. It uses electric motors to tile instead of hydraulics & involves trackside balises. Ironically, the Voyagers (subject of this video) does use a revision of the tilt system developed on the APT.
@@TheRip72The Super Voyagers use a hybrid type tilt system, with APT-P style hydraulics and control systems with the balise's input added on as well. The APT-P system worked right down to zero speed, but the Pendolinos don't tilt below 45 mph. I've yet to discover if Super Voyagers tilt at low speeds, I should find out....
9:50, the train companys that serve Crewe are: Avanti West Coast, London Northwestern Railway, EMR, Transport for Wales and Northern. The station also sees the Caledonian Sleeper highlander service at quarter to midnight and 06:00 in the morning, the station also sees a limited CrossCountry service, so 2 trains a day, 1 to Bournemouth, the other to Manchester Piccadilly.
I find the Voyager a comfortable train but what lets it down is capacity. Especially with XCountry who never seem to have enough carriages at peek times on Bristol to Birmingham and back.
Was probably filmed a while ago as all the voyagers are now vinyled in AWC and of course the two in GC and I have seen both the units he travelled on in AWC.
CrossCountry is always packed. For example the machester picadilly and bournemouth route, my sister couldn’t get out because of the crowd. I think they need to always do 9 or 10 car CrossCountrys because 4 or 5 aint enough especially with how active and busy it gets
It does get busy but as a regular user of that service it's a classic example of everyone cramming onto the first carriage they see when the carriages on the other end are often half empty.
What is now called 'Waterloo' in London was known as 'Lambeth Marsh' before the arrival of the station, which was named after the village in Belgium near to where the eponymous 'Battle of Waterloo' took place.
During the December 2022 timetable change, the North Wales/Chester services don't call at Milton Keynes Central anymore, they now stop at Stafford and then fast to London Euston. But CrossCountry will be getting 12 Class 221 Super Voyagers from Avanti instead of the seven as planned, great video
@ChilternTransportProductions That route may not see much of them as the majority if not all will be on the Plymouth to Edinburgh route which Cross Country considers to be it's premium service.
@@maimadha There were only a couple of sets and not enough to cover all of the timetable. At least there would have been a decent replacement as Great Western and others have found.
There's the town of Entroncamento in Portugal. The name means 'junction', because it grew around a junction of two railway lines. Then in Finland there are places where a railway line did not go through the centre of a parish/municipality. They are not "towns" themselves, strictly speaking, but villages or some conglomerations of population. The places where passenger trains still stop (and I can think of) are "Hankasalmen asema" (between Jyväskylä and Pieksämäki, in Hankasalmi), "Asemankylä" or "Iin asemankylä" (between Oulu and Kemi, in Ii), "Asemanseutu" or "Alavuden asemanseutu" (between Haapamäki and Seinäjoki, in Alavus). Edited later: There's also "Oriveden asema" in Orivesi, between Jyväskylä and Tampere.
I remember thinking that the Voyagers were quite nice when they were introduced. That said, I was used to Southern region slam-doors at the time so anything was an upgrade by comparison!
I made the opposite journey last week from London, leaving my accommodation there at 7.00am. I had no problem with the train and enjoyed the trip. The total cost was €75 including the ferry to Dublin, booked about 2 days in advance. It was a 12 hour trip door to door. Local train from Homerton to Central London and ferry to Dublin. The bus that meets the ferry in Dublin costs €3 to Dublin city centre.
couldnt agree more about the fact they are really nice trains to ride on when not overcrowded etc, Ive never had the toilet issue either, granted the only thing is that they are just a little too small for the routes that they do, other than that though they are comfortable, relatively quiet for diesel trains and can get you from A to B very quickly with their good acceleration.
I've used these trains a lot in the past when Cross Country used them. Prior to Cross Country there was one train a day in each direction between Edinburgh and Wakefield so visiting my mother before I lived down here was a pain in the bum. When Virgin Cross Country arrived the service eventually went to one per hour, which it still is and the Voyagers were a big improvement but yes, over crowding was the one major issue. Once we hit Newcastle the train filled quickly and by the time it got to York and then Leeds it was standing room only, not good for poor passengers travelling all the way to Cornwall on the route.
What lots of people forget, or never knew, was that these trains revolutionised cross-country travel. Speed and frequency on many routes increased greatly. They then became victims of their own success. Virgin made one huge mistake; they planned for 3 classes (First, Business, Standard) and were told they had to provide disabled toilets for each class, each costing 12-16 seats compared to a normal toilet and worsening the overcrowding. A pity that the investment wasn't there for a larger fleet.
Virgin brought the philosophy which is why the UKs rail network is in such a mess, Branson always thinks he does wonders when really you only have to look at Virgin XC, Virgin Trains, Flybe (Virgin Connect) to see it's a rubbish business model that uses panache to look good.
I think the clockface timetable brought alot of people onto the railways, and it's maybe a victim of it's own success . No-one seemed to anticipate the rise in demand . The hourly timetable is used elsewhere in Europe , i. e. Switzerland , without the ill effects . Maybe it's because they design their infrastructure to accomodateit, or maybe it's because the franchising arrangements would penalise an operator for combining or just canning a service that's so late it's interfering with the one an hour behind .
The town of Crewe (originally built to house workers on the railway and at the railway works in the 1830s and 1840s) was named after the train station that it was originally adjacent to, and the train station was named after the civil parish it was then part of until the mid 20th century. The civil parish was "Crewe" but it changed its name to "Crewe Green" to avoid confusion with the town of Crewe in the 1970s, the town by then having become a municipal borough. The town of Crewe was at first adjacent to the train station, but was actually in the civil parish of Monks Coppenhall. This led to a riddle that was once popular: "That which is Crewe is not Crewe, and that which is not Crewe is Crewe."
i traveled on these in Train Sim world 4, the DLC is more affordable than a single ticket lol. i said in another video that UK's rail was terrible on a another video and people said i was being rude.
Noisy and cramped after the loco (HST) hauled Mk3 carriages they replaced, nowhere for luggage, and those toilet smells. Not the toilets themselves, but the area around, and often into the carriages. They're also usually standing room only through the West Midlands core. I look forward to seeing if the Class 800 derivatives are any better.
I don't know what sort of Voyager it was from Watford Junction to Birmingham International but I was staggered how noisy it was. I wish I had taken ear defenders with me.
Not technically named after a station, but Clapham Junction practically is. The station (and surrounding shops/housing estates) are part of Battersea. When the LSWR built the line in Victorian times, Battersea was a slum, with horrific levels of crime. They were concerned that their middle-class target customers wouldn't want to use the line or change trains if it was called Battersea Junction, so they looked for somewhere posh nearby after which to name the station - enter Clapham, which is about 1.5 miles from Clapham Junction, across the other side of Clapham Common. Back then, Clapham was mainly large, suburban detached houses on huge plots, built for the newly wealthy London merchant class.
I spent a whole year commuting on Voyagers (both 220 and 221 variants) and I absolutely loved them. Quiet, smooth and comfy. I was even able to sleep on the floor of one when it was packed full. And here’s a little hack to Voyagers if you’re getting tired of all the seats getting reserved; there’s a row (either 2 seats or 4) in carriage B, if I remember they tend to be in front of a baggage storage, where the seats don’t have the display screens for reservation so these seats cannot be reserved. As long as you’re quick, you’re guaranteed a seat.
Also Verney Junction in Buckinghamshire on the Bletchley-Oxford line. The passenger service was withdrawn in the 1960s & the line was removed altogether in the 1990s but the village is still called Verney Junction. The line has since been re-laid, but there will be no station or junction at Verney Junction.
Every single train not run by Northern is a blessing in comparison. I have to ride Northern trains to work every day and the seats are uncomfortable, the trains are dirty, often late or just straight up cancelled.
The Voyager units themselves are very good trains, and extremely reliable ! The 221 fleet on Avanti West Coast services are still able to tilt, unlike the cringingly mean Cross Country company which has had its tilt system isolated. The main problem is overcrowding, and Avanti tries it’s best to anticipate heavy loadings by running two units together. On the other hand, Cross Country are notorious for using single 4-car units on very long runs like Aberdeen to Penzance !
It's a pity you resort to click bait titles which is also untrue. This is actually a pretty good, objective and positive report on these supervoyagers. I personally like them as well, as the seats are very cushy (now the Class 800 seats, those are sincerely unhealthy and actually hated). If you had stayed away from a click bait title, I would have even given it a like. Talking about something being hated.
They are very commonly hated trains, and any in-depth read of the comments or other sources will tell you that. This video serves as a piece to see if this hate is justified, which is clearly explained in the thumbnail. Oh well. www.railforums.co.uk/threads/are-voyagers-really-that-bad.87293/ www.railforums.co.uk/threads/voyager-experience-not-as-bad-as-expected.249842/ www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-is-so-bad-about-voyagers.65910/ www.railforums.co.uk/threads/voyagers-not-fit-for-purpose-or-just-on-the-wrong-routes.127643/
I'm pretty sure Verney Junction on the old Aylesbury & Buckingham Railway, LNWR and Varsity Lines exists purely due to the former railway junction (which no longer exists), named after Sir Harry Verney.
Yes it was, and Calvert, a few miles away on the GCR main line was also named after him as he went by the name of Sir Harry Calvert before inheriting the Verney title.
The town of Nelson in Lancashire started out as Great Marsden and Little Marsden. There was already a Marsden station in Yorkshire, so the L&Y named the station after the nearby pub, the Nelson Inn. Eventually the town took the name of its railway station.
Halwill Junction in Cornwall got its name as it was a junction in the middle of nowhere. It was on the Southern "Whithered Arm" route to Bude. From Halwill Junction, branch lines left southward to Wadebridge and Padstow and northward to Torrington and Barnstaple. No railways left in the area now, all closed many years ago, the name Halwill Junction remains.
You forgot to mention Stevenson's tubular bridge at Conwy which was effectively a prototype for the original Britannia bridge which was unfortunately destroyed by fire several years ago.
You see some of the replacements and then begin to realise how and why the InterCity 125s and 225s clinged to service as long as they did. Another industry saved by privatisation clearly
A friend told me she gets good plane deals flying into Ireland from the US and then taking the ferry. She said it's a nice trip overall without having to deal with London or Heathrow.
For £51.10, according to The Man in Seat 61, this would be the ticket to buy paying the fare from Dublin to London . You're not obliged to use the ferry or at least not when I used the service to and from Dublin.
My last trips of this line were 2019, super cheap sail rail return from Dublin to Liverpool, change at Chester. Also that year a one way to Crewe to pick up a car and return same day. Two sail rails in 2015 for the rugby world cup, Dublin to Milton, change to Wembley for 4.pm kick off. Watch the match, quick shuttle to Euston after and back to Holyhead for the overnight ferry (with a cabin) back to Dublin next morning. Similar for the Cardiff match, but needed to overnight in Hereford as Saturday service too late for a 24hr epic journey. I first travelled this line at age 7 in 1963, to holiday in London with my Aunt. Long overnight mailboat and rattley Cravens cars I think, No parents with me, chaperoned by a returning emigrant neighbour. Side aisle and 8 seater booths, you could stretch out and sleep to Euston. You can still see the now inaccessible harbour next to platform 2 I think, where you'd walk down the gangplank straight into the waiting train. Nowadays you have to be shuttled by bus from the Ferry pier to the station, after all the cars have exited, and it is easy to miss the matching train which in theory serves the Ferry foot passengers, but in practice leaves before you can get there due to the horrible delay in disembarking. There are no foot passenger ramps, and the shuttle bus has to enter the ferry bowels, but only after all the cars have gone. The extra hour delay for the next train was usefully used to stock up in McDonald's right beside the station. Very nostalgic for me, that trip in '63 was my first major train journey.
Honestly the trains themselves are fine, really comfortable considering they haven’t been refurbished in 20 years (XC) and sound great too, all it is, is the overcrowding issue, that’s the only issue
The North Wales Main Line, the unelectrified track between Crewe and Holyhead plans to be electrified, so maybe dual modes won’t be necessary for this service in the future.
As someone originally from North Wales, permit me to say “I’ll believe it when I see it”. There have been proposals to electrify the route since at least the 1980s but nothing has come of them. Sunak has announced the “plan” this time, but he won’t be PM past the end of this year…
Ok, for everyone saying: “Ooh Avanti are better” try this: Avanti are no where near as reliable for their services as Cross Country, at least Cross Country can run a service without cancelling half of them. And another thing: IT’S THE SAME BLOODY TRAIN JUST OPERATED BY DIFFERENT COMPANIES! That’s like saying “Oh I hate Northern 323s but I love West Midlands ones.” It’s the same train and there’s no difference with the actual locos. The only difference is the 221 has a tilting system. That’s basically it, I like Cross Country, as they cover the most area of England Wales and Scotland more than any company, yet they get sod all credit. Shame really. But anyway the voyager is the same train no matter what company is using them. Avanti are getting 805s anyway and because the HSTs were sent to Nigeria, Avanti are supposed to be giving XC 7 five car’s to replace them. So because the ex Avanti are now a part of Cross Country does that now mean the voyagers are horrible? Hmm?
The Dublin-Holyhead ferry can still be quite cheap compared to my flights, my family was regularly driving to Holyhead and getting the ferry instead of flying until about 2020. It used to be better when they had the fast ferries, but I spent most of my summer holidays as a kid staring at that train station from the car - it's good to finally see what it looks like inside!
Irish Ferries operate a (relatively) fast ferry for about half the year. I find it useful for departing Dublin at lunchtime and getting into London that evening.
I live on this line. Avanti have had some deservedly bad press in recent years, but they've improved noticeably in the last year or so. And I never get tired of those views.
How can you hate a train? It's simply a mode of conveyance to get you from A to B. You love or hate your family, or a football club but surely not a train unless of course you are mad. I particularly liked the Voyager especially when it was run by Virgin - the reason being was that Virgin Trains actually cared which is more than you can say about many other British train operators. That's also the view of many of the staff whose job it is to work on the West Coast mainline and Cross Country services.
As soon as the video started i thought the wrong voyager is being reviewed. Everything on crosscountry is worse. To get the full overcrowding effect, catch a late afternoon departure from Birmingham New Street in any direction. The problem even spoils the 170s which are pretty good trains in the right hands. The other annoynce with crosscountry is that the are the only operator on some pretty key routes (Birmingham to Derby or Cheltenham for example). The only way to avoid a xc voyager on those routes is to drive.
A years back 2022 i flew into Manchester airport ,i caught a train to Piccadilly from the airport then on to York then finally Northallerton i was impressed by how many railway staff were able to help with questions ,the last train was high speed and all seats were taken i had to kneel on the floor between the carriage join ,but it was August school had been out a week ,i saw great views from the train that you would not see in a car ,nice vid thanks .
I wouldn't call trains in this country 'unreliable'. People seem to forget that, in this country, we rely on train travel more than most countries. Where else in the world can you get an often, reliable commuter service from town to town, and an intercity train, that travels on the same line? Sure, France, Japan and Germany may do 'rail better'. But they're designed for high speeds, not many stations and that in this country would never work. One trespasser on the ECML will cause hours of delays, because we simply don't have the room or funding to create more track. As for Voyagers, the trains themselves are fine. Its the TOC's that run them that are disappointing. XC are my least favourite TOC, because they run the longest service in the country, but only have 4 cars, at most 10 (if you're really really lucky). There's just a lack of voyagers. If they were as many voyagers as there is Class 700's, there wouldn't be an issue with them.
As much as we complain about the voyagers, they are more comfortable when compared to the newer alternatives. But i am only used to the XC 220s and 221s I haven’t been on any others
for the country that pretty much brought railways to the world, its crazy just how bad trains are in the UK compared to pretty much every other country out there. Even India which uses trains from 50 Years ago has a better service than the UK.
Never had a problem with the voyagers, in my opinion people like to hate them because they replaced their beloved loco-hauled stock, the smell is an issue that was fixed over 20 years ago yet people still complain. With Virgin/Avanti they are almost always doubled up to 10 coaches which makes them longer than half the pendolinos, the capacity issue only comes from cross country's mismanagement of them.
They are rarely doubled up through the midlands. if they were permenantly run in pairs there would be no problem. Generally I choose to wait or take a slower train than get on the always crowded voyagers.
The train actually looked very decent, should have catering on a service of that length. I generally find Avanti’s fare structure too expensive. The Standard Premier fare often more than Virgins very fair sale of catered First Class. Nice job on the vlog mate
Only once have I been subjected to being on a voyager. I was traveling from Crew to Bangor, I had a window seat next to a person that had laid out an absorbent matt placed on which was food bowls for their rat sized dog. The train was full, it was summer so the aircon was pretty much beaten and due to those sloping sides, I felt really pinned in. Possibly the worst railway experience I have delt with (being in a crammed pacer bouncing along the line to Merthyr is probably the worst), I’m glad I don’t have any interaction with them anymore
I (along with most of Britain) love those trains! They’re brilliantly laid out and the decor is so good standard class feels like first, comfortable, sound great, the route is gorgeous, and there’s often nine or even eleven carriages so there’s plenty of room. The four car versions Cross Country runs packed with enough seats to make Ryanair blush on sometimes THIRTEEN HOUR JOURNEYS through Birmingham and Manchester, the country’s second busiest corridor, to pack to the literal brim with suffocating levels of desperate commuters- not so much.
I actually represent most of Britain and we hate these trains. Narrow seats that are uncomfortable if you're broad shouldered, stinky toilets, stale air throughout, plug sockets and wifi that rarely work. That stale air is the worst. Most of Britain despise these trains with the fury of a thousand suns.
I live in the midlands of Ireland, and sometimes visit family near London. I've often used this service. But (probably thanks to cheap flights) the service is not as good as it was. In Feb 2023 my wife & I took the evening boat to Holyhead and then slept in the station, taking the 1st train, 04:50 to Euston. We brought our self-inflating mattresses & down sleeping bags! We had hoped to do the same in Feb '24 but the train service to London was not so good, the early trains didn't even go to London and involved a few changes, and I knew we'd probably be dozing. The only proper connecting boats leave Dublin too early for us to get a connecting train from our home. But from London to Ireland the service connects fine. btw if you ever use the train & then ferry to Ireland do make sure to buy a sail & rail ticket, it's often cheaper than just going to Holyhead!
I remember loco changes at Crewe. From an 86 to a 47. Last did that trip in 1991. Interesting to see a 37 in Holyhead. Didnt know they ran on that line. Always seemed to be a 47
That has to be the cleanest AWC train I have ever seen. Most of the trains are running 3G connectivity which easily gets overwhelmed when the train is half full
Yes, you have to sample the CrossCounty units to really understand the hate. One thing, the CrossCountry units don't even tilt! About half were built without tilt (but with the tilt profile bodies), the rest had it deactivated. Interestingly, the bi-mode replacements on the WCML don’t tilt. It seems that tilt is falling out of favour in the UK.
I like the Super Voyagers, but I prefer the Pendolinos. So when I go from Chester to Euston I do a change at Crewe so I can do the 1h 40mins in a Pendolino
LOL… The last time I was travelling on train’s within the U.K was way back in 1991, I think it was back then known as British Rail., I purchased a Britrail pass for 30 day’s saving me a bundle but this pass was purchased outside of the UK. I like your review of this train service you travelled on, you’ve done a awesome review thanks👍
I travelled on a CrossCountry Class 221 today. It was very shabby and there was that funny Voyager toilet smell. However, it was fairly comfortable compared to the Northern Class 195 I started my day on which was rather jarring and had a rattle that sounded like the train was shaking itself to bits.
I loved these trains, brand new, clean, quiet and hi-tech, and fast, compared to others I was on, but that was 20 years ago (2005 trip to London with Virgin), I've not been on one since as they've aged.
I have felt travel sick on the Voyager trains a couple of times before too, especially when sitting in a rear facing seat. Never had so much of this issue on the Pendolino trains which also tilt like the Voyagers.
for anybody went to travel from Holyhead before / after connecting with the fast ferry Dublin Swift ... "This year the fast craft will only be used on the route from 17 May to 30 September inclusive"
I used to work for and get involved with franchise negotiations and the problem is a TOC gets paid to run a route not the number of carriages and the capacity. Back when these plastic toys first appeared I was shocked at the lack of sets in them compared to the "old fashioned" British marine engine HST units. We would run 12/15 carriages and even then most trains were almost full whilst others ran 5 with the odd doubler with 10 but again they had a limited number of seats per carriage.
The town of Bearsden to the north of Glasgow seems to have had several names in the past. It was generally known as New Kilpatrick when the railways arrived in the 1860s. The station was called Bearsden to avoid confusion with other stations with Kilpatrick in their name and the town seemed to have adopted the name at some point soon after.
I personally have never noticed any bad smells on these trains. The basic train isn’t too bad, should have been built as an 8 car at least and bi-mode as well.
Actually the voyagers are a really reliable and a nice and comfortable train... when you can get a seat that is... and that's the problem. It's the fact that for the vast majority of routes that they serve on the cross country network, they have nowhere near enough capacity for the amount of people travelling today. This of course disgruntles customers having to stand on such long journeys and even not being able to board at some stations. Admittedly Crosscountry's units are in need of a refresh, as they're worked ridiculously hard and have not had anything cosmetically done to them for well over 10 years now. Although thats about to change and the already refurbished Avanti units are fantastic.
I don't mind the Voyagers myself, as I've always had pleasant journeys on them but as you stated, the main issue is when they're packed which they usually are with CrossCountry. Luckily, it has recently been confirmed that XC will get 12 of Avanti's Voyagers (initially 7 to make up for the loss of the HSTs plus an extra 5 on top of that) to finally increase their capacity after all these years, so hopefully that'll get them back on their feet.
TRAIN SIZE PROBLEMS The biggest problem in the UK is the fixation with Multiple-Unit Trains as opposed to Locomotive & Coaches. The modern obession with this stems for the years immediately prior to 'Privatisation' of the Raiways. At this time, and in preparation for Privatisation, the Government knew that the owership and operation of trains would be radically changed come the 1997 date. Rather than people who understood railways operating the trains, there would be a whole range of others, (largely at the time Bus Operators), coming onto the scene. Given that these people would have no knowledge or experience of handling, marshalling and operating trains, it was quickly recognise that the trains themselves would have to be 'simplified'... The meant that prior to 1997 passengers....yep they were still called that then........were 'consulted' on the types of trains that they liked, and multiple surveys were carried out........particularly on the West Coast Route, and especially Manchester / Liverpool to London. Obviously there was always going to be a bit of a problem in understanding passngers requirements, but punctuality was always right up there for them. Hence the powers that be in working through what Privatisation would mean....so Politicians and Civil Servants etc.....determined that all future trains would be better and easier to operate if they were of the 'Unit' formation rather than Locomotive and Coaches. This is now where we are, with Locomotive and Coaches sidelined and seen as to costly to operate. Given that we have 'Automatic Couplings' as the general order of things these days, there is no reason why Locomotives and Coaches should not be more extensively used. HST's were always the exception and given that they predominated on Cross-Country and Inter-City Trains at the time of Privatisation they were not really a problem....and they were not that old.... Additional Power Cars and Coaches for the HST's would have given us a standardised, comfortable fleet of trains covering the whole of the Country. Who knew...? James Hennighan Yorkshire, England
In the main, the complaint is that 4/ 5 car trains replaced HSTs, so most peoples experience is of having to stand. Cross country could alleviate one problem by having some trains that dont stop in Birmingham as a lot of passengers leave or join here. Separated Birmingham terminating trains would give long distance travellers more space for through journeys. (More stock would be needed). Bypassing Brum could also save time. I got so fed up with the XC crush that i now pay a bit more and travel ECML, then SW, or GWR to the west.
The super voyagers are not the ones that people complain about, they are actually not bad. Its the normal voyagers that cross country run that are terrible.
This! I used to used to commute between chesterfield and Leeds, and the only direct service at the time was XC on their godawful voyager. Always crowded, basically no reasonable standing room and the stench of toilets. Oh the smell!
When northern started a nottingham to leeds service calling at chesterfield, I used that. It wasn't as fast and had more stops, and occasionally was a Pacer, but at least it wasn't stinky!
When I used to head into our Leeds office, I avoided the Voyagers and used TPX and the 185’s instead.
This is the truth. The anxiety of wandering of your train at random will be 4 , 5 , 8 or maybe even 9 carriages. 4 carriages and when you take off 1st, driver compartment , bike storage, luggage storage, DDA toilets - you've got the equivalent of 2.5 carriages. On the 8 train consists I've found the back carriages are always freezing cold
I've done Plymouth-Newcastle a lot and found XC to be packed (from Bristol->Leeds at least) but more comfortable than LNER or even the most recent Eurostar I was on.
thanks for explaining. I was wondering why this train was hated, it seemed to be quite nice. sure, not ideal, but nice.
I'm not sure about AWC but Cross Country don't have enough capacity and often run four or five cars on quite long and busy routes, because not only trains to London are busy you know
And they retired 7 coach 500-odd seat HSTs. I get they're old but... seriously?
Now they've secured 12 of AWC's Voyagers, which they'll be gaining over the next year to finally sort out their long-running capacity problem (initially 7 to make up for their loss of the HST but an additional 5 has been added on top of that), but unfortunately London-centric intercity trains generate 10x more revenue than any CrossCountry service of a similar loading so the latter consistently gets the short end of the stick.
@@AymanTravelTransportabout time
I've seen packed 4-car trains running Bournemouth - Manchester Picadilly and it was so bad to ride on one to the point I made it a habit to never ride XC unless I didn't have a choice
@@AymanTravelTransportnot in effect until may 2025 though
At least it was an Avanti Voyager. The Crosscountry ones are much worse as they're unrefurbished from the Virgin era
some of the avanti ones arent even refurbed from the virgin era
I love them! They bring the nostalgia of the train travelling in the 80's. The seats are still comfortable, so much better than the card board seats in the Class 800.
They will be gone in the next few years. Crosscountry are rumoured to be replacing them with bi mode IETs. So are EMR.
@@chrisrowe7503 No actually, the Avanti ones will be transferred to XC and be refurbished along with the rest of the fleet. There are no plans for replacement yet.
@@chrisrowe7503 IETs are overrated atp, they're everywhere in England it's getting boring
7:22 > In France, there's a town of 4000 inhabitants named "Capdenac - Gare" [literally "Capdenac - train station"]. The original city of Capdenac, which still exists today by the way, is located on the left bank of a river while the train station was built on the right bank. When the station oppened, the residents decided to create a second Capdenac city on the right bank and they just named their new city "Capdenac - Station".
Romania features a similar situation, with Lehliu Gară being a town built around the station of the town of Lehliu, some few kilometers apart. Ironically, the train station named town surpasses the other town by a bit of inhabitants and size.
@@andreibegu happens a lot in romania, fetesti gara also comes to mind
@@andreibegualmost the same case in Spain: the picturesque mountain village of Canfranc built a big station down in the valley, and the town that emerged around the station is now known as Canfranc Estación and has become larger than the original Canfranc and a major tourist hotspot
Plenty places in Denmark didnt exist before the train....my old home changes its name due the name being difficult to differentiate from other names on the line. From Lillerød to Allerød
Same thing with Canfranc in Spain, except Canfranc Estación is miles further up the valley
The Voyagers are not bad trains.......its where they are deployed,that is the problem.
Holyhead to London on board a nice refurbished one doesn't sound too bad.
I think the bad reputation is all down to CrossCountry's use of them. Edinburgh to Plymouth on one would be absolute torture.
I went to York with XC, going up it was perfect, lovely window seat, quiet, two nice ladies helping me out because I got nervous (due to social anxiety) but on the way back, Jesus Christ it was awful, as it was a 4 car, only one toilet, it took me from Birmingham to Taunton just to use the loo.
all of CrossCountry's fleet will be getting a refurbishment by mid 2025
@mattcalder1936 I hope you were OK in the end Matt.
@aviationtrainsfc1 I think CrossCountry have gotten away with running a bad service with shabby Voyagers for years due to the fact that there have been worse performing train operating companies making the headlines.....Avanti West Coast and Transpennine Express spring to mind.
I know this is slightly off topic for this particular video but I would like to see an open access operator to be given a chance to give CrossCountry some competition.....particularly between York to Bristol.......Flixtrain using redundant mk5s perhaps?
I think they could have been good but they were designed more for headline numbers than passenger satisfaction.
I would take more space over tilting any day of the week because there just aren't that many places where tilting makes a noticable difference. I like the way they pull and the way they are laid out but as a well built kind of chap I found far too many times my shoulders meant I was taking up most of the two seats which is less than ideal when they were mainly used on fairly busy routes for their capacity.
Funnily enough I was on a heritage railway not long back and had the chance to ride in some BR MK1 coaches. It was shocking just how good they were considering they are mostly just bits of wood nailed together in the 50's. Its as if they were built with peoples comfort in mind rather than how many could be squeezed in.
These trains have a lot of potential. If they had better capacity they wouldn't be so hated.
The companies should be hated, not the trains.
They'd still stink though.
@@Benjamin.Jamin.Unlike a Class 720 which actually does stink
they will never drive to another country.... they are on an island!
and the UK hates other countries!
As well as having entirely new windows throughout, made of materials that don't block RF...
Now try X-C, with a suitcase, on a busy day & see how you get on. Not sure a review of a trip on an empty train is getting to the heart of why they are 'hated'...!
Agreed. Southampton Central when a cruise ship has come in and its passengers and lots of very big suitcases wanting to get on the XC to all points north is a scrum to be avoided.
Bold of you to assume he'd be able to get on.
As a train, I don't think the Voyagers are as bad as they can sometimes be made out to be. There were broadly two complaints. One was that being multiple units they had engine noise that loco hauled carriages did not, though personally it doesn't bother me too much and they're not as bad as some other units on the network. The other and more critical complaint was overcrowding. Even though this can be a general theme on many a rail service in the UK, it does feel like the Voyagers needed to be longer from the outset and there has always been a desire for more carriages. In terms of ambience though, I feel they are quite decent. Interestingly, regarding some of the "new train" complaints they attracted when introduced about seat-to-window alignment and the comfort of seats, arguably because some newer trains have got much worse in this regard it now makes the Voyagers look better.
Hey I didn't know trains could now post comments on youtube! ;D
@@osasunaitortechnology is growing
9:38 Let’s not forget that it was British Rail’s APT technology that created the Pendolino. There were passive tilt systems in some fairly obscure rolling stock around the world but the APT brought the active tilt principles. The APT also debuted the step that extends from the side of the train before the doors open too, which is also featured on the Pendolino. Also the APT seats are dramatically more comfortable to sit on than the Pendolino, and APT seats are lined up with the windows.
The Pendolino does not use APT's tilt. It uses FIAT's tilt technology which they developed around the same time as APT. It uses electric motors to tile instead of hydraulics & involves trackside balises.
Ironically, the Voyagers (subject of this video) does use a revision of the tilt system developed on the APT.
@@TheRip72The Super Voyagers use a hybrid type tilt system, with APT-P style hydraulics and control systems with the balise's input added on as well. The APT-P system worked right down to zero speed, but the Pendolinos don't tilt below 45 mph. I've yet to discover if Super Voyagers tilt at low speeds, I should find out....
9:50, the train companys that serve Crewe are: Avanti West Coast, London Northwestern Railway, EMR, Transport for Wales and Northern. The station also sees the Caledonian Sleeper highlander service at quarter to midnight and 06:00 in the morning, the station also sees a limited CrossCountry service, so 2 trains a day, 1 to Bournemouth, the other to Manchester Piccadilly.
I find the Voyager a comfortable train but what lets it down is capacity. Especially with XCountry who never seem to have enough carriages at peek times on Bristol to Birmingham and back.
Quiet interesting to see the units you travelled still had the EX Virgin Trains livery
Was probably filmed a while ago as all the voyagers are now vinyled in AWC and of course the two in GC and I have seen both the units he travelled on in AWC.
@@ataphotographyUK The social distancing stickers on the floor are also a giveaway. This could be from a couple of years ago.
@@mdhazeldine it must be from a few years back, judging by the amount of rain - there's not been much rain in the UK since 2021.
CrossCountry is always packed. For example the machester picadilly and bournemouth route, my sister couldn’t get out because of the crowd. I think they need to always do 9 or 10 car CrossCountrys because 4 or 5 aint enough especially with how active and busy it gets
It does get busy but as a regular user of that service it's a classic example of everyone cramming onto the first carriage they see when the carriages on the other end are often half empty.
The GWR 800 series are crap as well and the most uncomfortable seats for a lengthy journey and rubbish catering , otherwise fine .
What is now called 'Waterloo' in London was known as 'Lambeth Marsh' before the arrival of the station, which was named after the village in Belgium near to where the eponymous 'Battle of Waterloo' took place.
Isn't what is now Waterloo named after the vicinity of the Bridge not the village in Belgium. The bridge however is named after the battle.
During the December 2022 timetable change, the North Wales/Chester services don't call at Milton Keynes Central anymore, they now stop at Stafford and then fast to London Euston. But CrossCountry will be getting 12 Class 221 Super Voyagers from Avanti instead of the seven as planned, great video
Confirms my suspicion that this is pretty old footage. The social distancing stickers are another giveaway. Still a good video though.
Excellent news, plus there's the offchance you might get a refurbished unit as well.
@ChilternTransportProductions That route may not see much of them as the majority if not all will be on the Plymouth to Edinburgh route which Cross Country considers to be it's premium service.
@@philipdouglas5911CrossCountry should've kept the HSTs operating on the Plymouth to Edinburgh route
@@maimadha There were only a couple of sets and not enough to cover all of the timetable. At least there would have been a decent replacement as Great Western and others have found.
There's the town of Entroncamento in Portugal. The name means 'junction', because it grew around a junction of two railway lines. Then in Finland there are places where a railway line did not go through the centre of a parish/municipality. They are not "towns" themselves, strictly speaking, but villages or some conglomerations of population. The places where passenger trains still stop (and I can think of) are "Hankasalmen asema" (between Jyväskylä and Pieksämäki, in Hankasalmi), "Asemankylä" or "Iin asemankylä" (between Oulu and Kemi, in Ii), "Asemanseutu" or "Alavuden asemanseutu" (between Haapamäki and Seinäjoki, in Alavus).
Edited later: There's also "Oriveden asema" in Orivesi, between Jyväskylä and Tampere.
I remember thinking that the Voyagers were quite nice when they were introduced. That said, I was used to Southern region slam-doors at the time so anything was an upgrade by comparison!
I made the opposite journey last week from London, leaving my accommodation there at 7.00am. I had no problem with the train and enjoyed the trip. The total cost was €75 including the ferry to Dublin, booked about 2 days in advance. It was a 12 hour trip door to door. Local train from Homerton to Central London and ferry to Dublin. The bus that meets the ferry in Dublin costs €3 to Dublin city centre.
couldnt agree more about the fact they are really nice trains to ride on when not overcrowded etc, Ive never had the toilet issue either, granted the only thing is that they are just a little too small for the routes that they do, other than that though they are comfortable, relatively quiet for diesel trains and can get you from A to B very quickly with their good acceleration.
Your comments are interspersed with subtle comedy , that makes your videos more enjoyable, even if the trains are the most hated ones. :))
JFK was the first American president to be named after an airport.
That's a very interesting fact, thanks for sharing!
I've used these trains a lot in the past when Cross Country used them. Prior to Cross Country there was one train a day in each direction between Edinburgh and Wakefield so visiting my mother before I lived down here was a pain in the bum. When Virgin Cross Country arrived the service eventually went to one per hour, which it still is and the Voyagers were a big improvement but yes, over crowding was the one major issue. Once we hit Newcastle the train filled quickly and by the time it got to York and then Leeds it was standing room only, not good for poor passengers travelling all the way to Cornwall on the route.
What lots of people forget, or never knew, was that these trains revolutionised cross-country travel. Speed and frequency on many routes increased greatly. They then became victims of their own success. Virgin made one huge mistake; they planned for 3 classes (First, Business, Standard) and were told they had to provide disabled toilets for each class, each costing 12-16 seats compared to a normal toilet and worsening the overcrowding. A pity that the investment wasn't there for a larger fleet.
Bloody DfT again, I guess.
The philosophy introduced by Virgin of short, frequent services gummed up the network and led to persistent late services with overcrowded trains.
The Virgin late overcrowded trains vs The Chad "we apologize for being 2 minutes late" Tokyo Rail
Deustche Bahn, looking from a corner: "amateurs"
Virgin brought the philosophy which is why the UKs rail network is in such a mess, Branson always thinks he does wonders when really you only have to look at Virgin XC, Virgin Trains, Flybe (Virgin Connect) to see it's a rubbish business model that uses panache to look good.
I think the clockface timetable brought alot of people onto the railways, and it's maybe a victim of it's own success . No-one seemed to anticipate the rise in demand . The hourly timetable is used elsewhere in Europe , i. e. Switzerland , without the ill effects . Maybe it's because they design their infrastructure to accomodateit, or maybe it's because the franchising arrangements would penalise an operator for combining or just canning a service that's so late it's interfering with the one an hour behind .
@@Nadia1989 the same DB that struggles to run their passenger service? Amateurs indeed.
I always enjoy your informative commentary.
I appreciate that! 😊
I commute on Avanti Voyagers, can't wait for the 805s to enter service.
Be careful what you wish for
The town of Crewe (originally built to house workers on the railway and at the railway works in the 1830s and 1840s) was named after the train station that it was originally adjacent to, and the train station was named after the civil parish it was then part of until the mid 20th century. The civil parish was "Crewe" but it changed its name to "Crewe Green" to avoid confusion with the town of Crewe in the 1970s, the town by then having become a municipal borough. The town of Crewe was at first adjacent to the train station, but was actually in the civil parish of Monks Coppenhall. This led to a riddle that was once popular: "That which is Crewe is not Crewe, and that which is not Crewe is Crewe."
i traveled on these in Train Sim world 4, the DLC is more affordable than a single ticket lol. i said in another video that UK's rail was terrible on a another video and people said i was being rude.
There are no voyagers in TSW
Noisy and cramped after the loco (HST) hauled Mk3 carriages they replaced, nowhere for luggage, and those toilet smells. Not the toilets themselves, but the area around, and often into the carriages. They're also usually standing room only through the West Midlands core. I look forward to seeing if the Class 800 derivatives are any better.
I don't know what sort of Voyager it was from Watford Junction to Birmingham International but I was staggered how noisy it was. I wish I had taken ear defenders with me.
@@kevinrayner5812 221
If they were seven car sets at least they could spread the seating out better, it would have at least been as comfortable as the HST.
Not technically named after a station, but Clapham Junction practically is. The station (and surrounding shops/housing estates) are part of Battersea. When the LSWR built the line in Victorian times, Battersea was a slum, with horrific levels of crime. They were concerned that their middle-class target customers wouldn't want to use the line or change trains if it was called Battersea Junction, so they looked for somewhere posh nearby after which to name the station - enter Clapham, which is about 1.5 miles from Clapham Junction, across the other side of Clapham Common. Back then, Clapham was mainly large, suburban detached houses on huge plots, built for the newly wealthy London merchant class.
I spent a whole year commuting on Voyagers (both 220 and 221 variants) and I absolutely loved them. Quiet, smooth and comfy. I was even able to sleep on the floor of one when it was packed full. And here’s a little hack to Voyagers if you’re getting tired of all the seats getting reserved; there’s a row (either 2 seats or 4) in carriage B, if I remember they tend to be in front of a baggage storage, where the seats don’t have the display screens for reservation so these seats cannot be reserved. As long as you’re quick, you’re guaranteed a seat.
There's the village of Micheldever Station, named after the station in Hampshire, and 2.5 miles from the village with the name of plain Micheldever
Also Verney Junction in Buckinghamshire on the Bletchley-Oxford line. The passenger service was withdrawn in the 1960s & the line was removed altogether in the 1990s but the village is still called Verney Junction. The line has since been re-laid, but there will be no station or junction at Verney Junction.
Every single train not run by Northern is a blessing in comparison. I have to ride Northern trains to work every day and the seats are uncomfortable, the trains are dirty, often late or just straight up cancelled.
The Voyager units themselves are very good trains, and extremely reliable ! The 221 fleet on Avanti West Coast services are still able to tilt, unlike the cringingly mean Cross Country company which has had its tilt system isolated. The main problem is overcrowding, and Avanti tries it’s best to anticipate heavy loadings by running two units together. On the other hand, Cross Country are notorious for using single 4-car units on very long runs like Aberdeen to Penzance !
Waterloo area named after the station (previously the area was known as Lambeth Marshes)
Which was in turn named after the bridge if I'm not mistaken
@@thomashenry3230 That is how I understand it. It is named after the bridge. I assume Waterloo Road was named when the bridge opened.
You know you're on shakey ground when a train station gets a cultural victory over you instantly after being built
It's a pity you resort to click bait titles which is also untrue. This is actually a pretty good, objective and positive report on these supervoyagers. I personally like them as well, as the seats are very cushy (now the Class 800 seats, those are sincerely unhealthy and actually hated). If you had stayed away from a click bait title, I would have even given it a like. Talking about something being hated.
They are very commonly hated trains, and any in-depth read of the comments or other sources will tell you that. This video serves as a piece to see if this hate is justified, which is clearly explained in the thumbnail. Oh well.
www.railforums.co.uk/threads/are-voyagers-really-that-bad.87293/
www.railforums.co.uk/threads/voyager-experience-not-as-bad-as-expected.249842/
www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-is-so-bad-about-voyagers.65910/
www.railforums.co.uk/threads/voyagers-not-fit-for-purpose-or-just-on-the-wrong-routes.127643/
@@SuperalbsTravels Still a click bait title.
@@macnavi You are utterly clueless.
I'm pretty sure Verney Junction on the old Aylesbury & Buckingham Railway, LNWR and Varsity Lines exists purely due to the former railway junction (which no longer exists), named after Sir Harry Verney.
Yes it was, and Calvert, a few miles away on the GCR main line was also named after him as he went by the name of Sir Harry Calvert before inheriting the Verney title.
The town of Nelson in Lancashire started out as Great Marsden and Little Marsden. There was already a Marsden station in Yorkshire, so the L&Y named the station after the nearby pub, the Nelson Inn. Eventually the town took the name of its railway station.
"Extremerley"
Halwill Junction in Cornwall got its name as it was a junction in the middle of nowhere. It was on the Southern "Whithered Arm" route to Bude.
From Halwill Junction, branch lines left southward to Wadebridge and Padstow and northward to Torrington and Barnstaple. No railways left in the area now, all closed many years ago, the name Halwill Junction remains.
You forgot to mention Stevenson's tubular bridge at Conwy which was effectively a prototype for the original Britannia bridge which was unfortunately destroyed by fire several years ago.
Unfortunately the voyagers are usually over crowded which does indeed make long journeys uncomfortable.
You see some of the replacements and then begin to realise how and why the InterCity 125s and 225s clinged to service as long as they did. Another industry saved by privatisation clearly
I miss the 125s and 225s. they were amazing trains.
@@jameshodgetts7541the InterCity125 and InterCity225 sets were the best trains LNER has ever operated
I plan on doing a lot of train riding when I come to visit UK for the first time. Thank you for making this video.
Greetings from Colorado Springs.
Thanks, have a nice trip!
going past a legit Medieval castle is quite awesome and makes the trip well worth it even if the train itself isn't the best.
Halwill Junction on the Withered Arm from Oakhampton to Holsworthy was named after the railway originated there.
A friend told me she gets good plane deals flying into Ireland from the US and then taking the ferry. She said it's a nice trip overall without having to deal with London or Heathrow.
If you enjoy travelling on Voyagers I think you might want to have a chat with your GP 😊
My thoughts exactly. How anyone can find these seats ergonomic and comfortable is beyond me unless they are shaped like Quasimodo 😄
For £51.10, according to The Man in Seat 61, this would be the ticket to buy paying the fare from Dublin to London . You're not obliged to use the ferry or at least not when I used the service to and from Dublin.
Yeah, they look like tilting trains. You should check out the HŽ class 7123. It's a tilting train running between Zagreb and Split.
they do tilt, not as much as the Pendolinos tho
My last trips of this line were 2019, super cheap sail rail return from Dublin to Liverpool, change at Chester. Also that year a one way to Crewe to pick up a car and return same day. Two sail rails in 2015 for the rugby world cup, Dublin to Milton, change to Wembley for 4.pm kick off. Watch the match, quick shuttle to Euston after and back to Holyhead for the overnight ferry (with a cabin) back to Dublin next morning. Similar for the Cardiff match, but needed to overnight in Hereford as Saturday service too late for a 24hr epic journey. I first travelled this line at age 7 in 1963, to holiday in London with my Aunt. Long overnight mailboat and rattley Cravens cars I think, No parents with me, chaperoned by a returning emigrant neighbour. Side aisle and 8 seater booths, you could stretch out and sleep to Euston. You can still see the now inaccessible harbour next to platform 2 I think, where you'd walk down the gangplank straight into the waiting train. Nowadays you have to be shuttled by bus from the Ferry pier to the station, after all the cars have exited, and it is easy to miss the matching train which in theory serves the Ferry foot passengers, but in practice leaves before you can get there due to the horrible delay in disembarking. There are no foot passenger ramps, and the shuttle bus has to enter the ferry bowels, but only after all the cars have gone. The extra hour delay for the next train was usefully used to stock up in McDonald's right beside the station. Very nostalgic for me, that trip in '63 was my first major train journey.
Honestly the trains themselves are fine, really comfortable considering they haven’t been refurbished in 20 years (XC) and sound great too, all it is, is the overcrowding issue, that’s the only issue
The North Wales Main Line, the unelectrified track between Crewe and Holyhead plans to be electrified, so maybe dual modes won’t be necessary for this service in the future.
As someone originally from North Wales, permit me to say “I’ll believe it when I see it”. There have been proposals to electrify the route since at least the 1980s but nothing has come of them. Sunak has announced the “plan” this time, but he won’t be PM past the end of this year…
The village of Coppenhall changed it's name to that of the train station - it's now called Crewe
Ok, for everyone saying: “Ooh Avanti are better” try this: Avanti are no where near as reliable for their services as Cross Country, at least Cross Country can run a service without cancelling half of them. And another thing: IT’S THE SAME BLOODY TRAIN JUST OPERATED BY DIFFERENT COMPANIES! That’s like saying “Oh I hate Northern 323s but I love West Midlands ones.” It’s the same train and there’s no difference with the actual locos. The only difference is the 221 has a tilting system. That’s basically it, I like Cross Country, as they cover the most area of England Wales and Scotland more than any company, yet they get sod all credit. Shame really. But anyway the voyager is the same train no matter what company is using them. Avanti are getting 805s anyway and because the HSTs were sent to Nigeria, Avanti are supposed to be giving XC 7 five car’s to replace them. So because the ex Avanti are now a part of Cross Country does that now mean the voyagers are horrible? Hmm?
The Dublin-Holyhead ferry can still be quite cheap compared to my flights, my family was regularly driving to Holyhead and getting the ferry instead of flying until about 2020. It used to be better when they had the fast ferries, but I spent most of my summer holidays as a kid staring at that train station from the car - it's good to finally see what it looks like inside!
Irish Ferries operate a (relatively) fast ferry for about half the year. I find it useful for departing Dublin at lunchtime and getting into London that evening.
I live on this line. Avanti have had some deservedly bad press in recent years, but they've improved noticeably in the last year or so. And I never get tired of those views.
How can you hate a train?
It's simply a mode of conveyance to get you from A to B.
You love or hate your family, or a football club but surely not a train unless of course you are mad.
I particularly liked the Voyager especially when it was run by Virgin - the reason being was that Virgin Trains actually cared which is more than you can say about many other British train operators.
That's also the view of many of the staff whose job it is to work on the West Coast mainline and Cross Country services.
I have been on a 10 car 221, it was a pleasant experience.
Whenever I go to Birmingham on the train I'll always take LNR over XC because of how crowded the Voyagers get.
For Crewe its AWC Cal Sleeper XC EMR WMR/LNWR Northern and TFW.
Cross Country don't serve Crewe do they?
@@OlanKennythey do like 1 or 2 trains a day
As soon as the video started i thought the wrong voyager is being reviewed. Everything on crosscountry is worse. To get the full overcrowding effect, catch a late afternoon departure from Birmingham New Street in any direction. The problem even spoils the 170s which are pretty good trains in the right hands. The other annoynce with crosscountry is that the are the only operator on some pretty key routes (Birmingham to Derby or Cheltenham for example). The only way to avoid a xc voyager on those routes is to drive.
A years back 2022 i flew into Manchester airport ,i caught a train to Piccadilly from the airport then on to York then finally Northallerton i was impressed by how many railway staff were able to help with questions ,the last train was high speed and all seats were taken i had to kneel on the floor between the carriage join ,but it was August school had been out a week ,i saw great views from the train that you would not see in a car ,nice vid thanks .
I wouldn't call trains in this country 'unreliable'. People seem to forget that, in this country, we rely on train travel more than most countries. Where else in the world can you get an often, reliable commuter service from town to town, and an intercity train, that travels on the same line?
Sure, France, Japan and Germany may do 'rail better'. But they're designed for high speeds, not many stations and that in this country would never work. One trespasser on the ECML will cause hours of delays, because we simply don't have the room or funding to create more track.
As for Voyagers, the trains themselves are fine. Its the TOC's that run them that are disappointing. XC are my least favourite TOC, because they run the longest service in the country, but only have 4 cars, at most 10 (if you're really really lucky). There's just a lack of voyagers. If they were as many voyagers as there is Class 700's, there wouldn't be an issue with them.
As much as we complain about the voyagers, they are more comfortable when compared to the newer alternatives. But i am only used to the XC 220s and 221s I haven’t been on any others
for the country that pretty much brought railways to the world, its crazy just how bad trains are in the UK compared to pretty much every other country out there. Even India which uses trains from 50 Years ago has a better service than the UK.
Since introduction - the only thing ive not liked about voyagers is they replaced slam door carriages you could stick your head out lol
Never had a problem with the voyagers, in my opinion people like to hate them because they replaced their beloved loco-hauled stock, the smell is an issue that was fixed over 20 years ago yet people still complain. With Virgin/Avanti they are almost always doubled up to 10 coaches which makes them longer than half the pendolinos, the capacity issue only comes from cross country's mismanagement of them.
They are rarely doubled up through the midlands. if they were permenantly run in pairs there would be no problem. Generally I choose to wait or take a slower train than get on the always crowded voyagers.
They still smell.
XC was too cheap to fix the smell issue. So the smell is still a problem just not on Avanti.
They still smell
The train actually looked very decent, should have catering on a service of that length. I generally find Avanti’s fare structure too expensive. The Standard Premier fare often more than Virgins very fair sale of catered First Class. Nice job on the vlog mate
Voyagers are one of the best trains in the uk I love them
Only once have I been subjected to being on a voyager. I was traveling from Crew to Bangor, I had a window seat next to a person that had laid out an absorbent matt placed on which was food bowls for their rat sized dog. The train was full, it was summer so the aircon was pretty much beaten and due to those sloping sides, I felt really pinned in. Possibly the worst railway experience I have delt with (being in a crammed pacer bouncing along the line to Merthyr is probably the worst), I’m glad I don’t have any interaction with them anymore
Wow that sounds rubbish!
I (along with most of Britain) love those trains! They’re brilliantly laid out and the decor is so good standard class feels like first, comfortable, sound great, the route is gorgeous, and there’s often nine or even eleven carriages so there’s plenty of room.
The four car versions Cross Country runs packed with enough seats to make Ryanair blush on sometimes THIRTEEN HOUR JOURNEYS through Birmingham and Manchester, the country’s second busiest corridor, to pack to the literal brim with suffocating levels of desperate commuters- not so much.
I actually represent most of Britain and we hate these trains. Narrow seats that are uncomfortable if you're broad shouldered, stinky toilets, stale air throughout, plug sockets and wifi that rarely work. That stale air is the worst. Most of Britain despise these trains with the fury of a thousand suns.
@@AsphaltAntelope Compare this shit to a Class 150 bus on rails
I live in the midlands of Ireland, and sometimes visit family near London. I've often used this service. But (probably thanks to cheap flights) the service is not as good as it was. In Feb 2023 my wife & I took the evening boat to Holyhead and then slept in the station, taking the 1st train, 04:50 to Euston. We brought our self-inflating mattresses & down sleeping bags! We had hoped to do the same in Feb '24 but the train service to London was not so good, the early trains didn't even go to London and involved a few changes, and I knew we'd probably be dozing. The only proper connecting boats leave Dublin too early for us to get a connecting train from our home. But from London to Ireland the service connects fine. btw if you ever use the train & then ferry to Ireland do make sure to buy a sail & rail ticket, it's often cheaper than just going to Holyhead!
I remember loco changes at Crewe. From an 86 to a 47. Last did that trip in 1991. Interesting to see a 37 in Holyhead. Didnt know they ran on that line. Always seemed to be a 47
TFW, Avanti, Cross Country, Mersey Rail, West Midland Trains, Northern, Caledonian Sleeper and TransPennine Express.
That has to be the cleanest AWC train I have ever seen.
Most of the trains are running 3G connectivity which easily gets overwhelmed when the train is half full
Dovey Junction, Chard Junction, and King's Cross all take their names from the station.
Notice the heating duct, intruding into the passenger's leg space.
Yes, you have to sample the CrossCounty units to really understand the hate. One thing, the CrossCountry units don't even tilt! About half were built without tilt (but with the tilt profile bodies), the rest had it deactivated. Interestingly, the bi-mode replacements on the WCML don’t tilt. It seems that tilt is falling out of favour in the UK.
I like the Super Voyagers, but I prefer the Pendolinos. So when I go from Chester to Euston I do a change at Crewe so I can do the 1h 40mins in a Pendolino
LOL… The last time I was travelling on train’s within the U.K was way back in 1991, I think it was back then known as British Rail., I purchased a Britrail pass for 30 day’s saving me a bundle but this pass was purchased outside of the UK. I like your review of this train service you travelled on, you’ve done a awesome review thanks👍
It's like the Liverpool Lime St. to Norwich route on EMR. They run 3 car 158s on it and you're most likely to be stood up the whole journey.
Free wifi is a plus, since on introduction the tinted glass pretty much wiped out all mobile signals
I travelled on a CrossCountry Class 221 today. It was very shabby and there was that funny Voyager toilet smell. However, it was fairly comfortable compared to the Northern Class 195 I started my day on which was rather jarring and had a rattle that sounded like the train was shaking itself to bits.
7:22, Hopewell Junction, New York is named after a junction with the New Haven railroad
I loved these trains, brand new, clean, quiet and hi-tech, and fast, compared to others I was on, but that was 20 years ago (2005 trip to London with Virgin), I've not been on one since as they've aged.
Me and my mate use to call it the vomit comet because every time we travelled on it, one of us would be sick
I have felt travel sick on the Voyager trains a couple of times before too, especially when sitting in a rear facing seat. Never had so much of this issue on the Pendolino trains which also tilt like the Voyagers.
For anybody that says voyagers are ok. Try to travel on a mk2 or 3,then see what they think of vomiters.
for anybody went to travel from Holyhead before / after connecting with the fast ferry Dublin Swift ...
"This year the fast craft will only be used on the route from 17 May to 30 September inclusive"
I used to work for and get involved with franchise negotiations and the problem is a TOC gets paid to run a route not the number of carriages and the capacity. Back when these plastic toys first appeared I was shocked at the lack of sets in them compared to the "old fashioned" British marine engine HST units. We would run 12/15 carriages and even then most trains were almost full whilst others ran 5 with the odd doubler with 10 but again they had a limited number of seats per carriage.
The town of Bearsden to the north of Glasgow seems to have had several names in the past. It was generally known as New Kilpatrick when the railways arrived in the 1860s. The station was called Bearsden to avoid confusion with other stations with Kilpatrick in their name and the town seemed to have adopted the name at some point soon after.
I personally have never noticed any bad smells on these trains. The basic train isn’t too bad, should have been built as an 8 car at least and bi-mode as well.
Actually the voyagers are a really reliable and a nice and comfortable train... when you can get a seat that is... and that's the problem. It's the fact that for the vast majority of routes that they serve on the cross country network, they have nowhere near enough capacity for the amount of people travelling today. This of course disgruntles customers having to stand on such long journeys and even not being able to board at some stations. Admittedly Crosscountry's units are in need of a refresh, as they're worked ridiculously hard and have not had anything cosmetically done to them for well over 10 years now. Although thats about to change and the already refurbished Avanti units are fantastic.
I don't mind the Voyagers myself, as I've always had pleasant journeys on them but as you stated, the main issue is when they're packed which they usually are with CrossCountry. Luckily, it has recently been confirmed that XC will get 12 of Avanti's Voyagers (initially 7 to make up for the loss of the HSTs plus an extra 5 on top of that) to finally increase their capacity after all these years, so hopefully that'll get them back on their feet.
The 'Super Voyagers' are fine. I like the Avanti West Coast (ex Virgin) trains, people often look at the Cross Country one, those are terrible.
Yeah, the XC ones are much dirtier and busier.
TRAIN SIZE PROBLEMS
The biggest problem in the UK is the fixation with Multiple-Unit Trains as opposed to Locomotive & Coaches.
The modern obession with this stems for the years immediately prior to 'Privatisation' of the Raiways. At this time, and in preparation for Privatisation, the Government knew that the owership and operation of trains would be radically changed come the 1997 date.
Rather than people who understood railways operating the trains, there would be a whole range of others, (largely at the time Bus Operators), coming onto the scene. Given that these people would have no knowledge or experience of handling, marshalling and operating trains, it was quickly recognise that the trains themselves would have to be 'simplified'...
The meant that prior to 1997 passengers....yep they were still called that then........were 'consulted' on the types of trains that they liked, and multiple surveys were carried out........particularly on the West Coast Route, and especially Manchester / Liverpool to London.
Obviously there was always going to be a bit of a problem in understanding passngers requirements, but punctuality was always right up there for them.
Hence the powers that be in working through what Privatisation would mean....so Politicians and Civil Servants etc.....determined that all future trains would be better and easier to operate if they were of the 'Unit' formation rather than Locomotive and Coaches.
This is now where we are, with Locomotive and Coaches sidelined and seen as to costly to operate.
Given that we have 'Automatic Couplings' as the general order of things these days, there is no reason why Locomotives and Coaches should not be more extensively used.
HST's were always the exception and given that they predominated on Cross-Country and Inter-City Trains at the time of Privatisation they were not really a problem....and they were not that old....
Additional Power Cars and Coaches for the HST's would have given us a standardised, comfortable fleet of trains covering the whole of the Country.
Who knew...?
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
In the main, the complaint is that 4/ 5 car trains replaced HSTs, so most peoples experience is of having to stand. Cross country could alleviate one problem by having some trains that dont stop in Birmingham as a lot of passengers leave or join here. Separated Birmingham terminating trains would give long distance travellers more space for through journeys. (More stock would be needed). Bypassing Brum could also save time. I got so fed up with the XC crush that i now pay a bit more and travel ECML, then SW, or GWR to the west.
They are fun to watch and listen to. I find them more interesting than the Hitachi Class 80X's..