Not sure if it was just me, but every journey on the 180's was actually good. Not once was there a single breakdown in the 8 journeys i've taken on them.
That wheelchair space, that's why I hate the Voyagers. On other trains I'm allowed to have friends! 80x trains the wheelchair space is in a table set so I can sit with friends and family instead of crammed in a corner by myself.
I have only used Grand Central once many many years ago My parents lived in Huddersfield and their nearest stations were Brighouse and Mirfield so going back to London we tried Grand Central from Brighouse to London. The interesting thing was they had a station volunteer team at Brighouse. This was a great help as my partner is disabled so getting him in the train and knowing where to stand were helpful. The problem is the lack of services running so I generally used either Wakefield Westgate or Manchester Picadilly to connect to Main Line services.
I've travelled from Yorkshire to London on Grand Central many many times and have never suffered any delays more than one or two minutes, and not one breakdown in dozens of journeys. The trains have always been clean, fast and comfortable - what more can you want
Pity about the 180’s. I used one from Moreton in Marsh to Reading way back in 2014. It was the most comfortable train we rode on during our 3 month UK holiday. We did 141 trains in that time, and the Voyagers were the worst, especially when travelling through the Midlands when they were often overloaded.
I used to place Voyager's at the top of my shit list, but then realised most of the issue is the atrocious XCountry service with their horrific capacity problems...the Shitatchi are so utterly abysmal with the seat base problem and shaking that they have taken the crown now.
gwr ones arent great but they're fine, do the job and a fairly pleasent experience. avanti and lumo's 80x trains are really goos, but that's because the TOC was willing to spend more money on them
It's a pity that the Voyagers get a bad press as they were victims of their own success - they revolutionised cross-country routes when introduced in 2001; service frequencies doubled and journey times dropped sharply on routes like Reading-Oxford-Birmingham. So then a lot more people used them and there weren't enough coaches, and no investment to build more. Also too many giant disabled toilets per set, reducing numbers of seats - and the mysterious smell!
The centre of Braford looks a whole lot different now (Nov 24) than your video which looks like it was filmed nearly 12 months ago! The statue at Low Moor comes from one of the old Bradford Mela festival floats which was saved by the council's Highways Team and placed to create a new local landmark in a nod to the industrial heritage of Low Moor.
Nice video. I love the Avanti/ex Avanti Super Voyagers. I think if the the current Cross Country ones were refurbished to be identical to the Avanti ones, retained the Shop, had the better First Class offer and had far more carriages, they wouldn't be as disliked. Yes I realise it's extremely unlikely any of that will happen.
The FC section on these is fairly decent, provided there aren't a lot of passengers with suitcases as the stacking rack is small. No steward/trolley for first class is obviously poor, as is the refreshment offer. I had imagined GC had a higher spec offer but obviously not. Worth doing if you get a good price in FC but otherwise not.
Yep..spot on. On fuel costs alone I can make a journey to and from The West Country at cheaper...or closely comparable prices than by train. Even if it ccosts me slightly more it is worth it to avoid the horrors of 'Cattle Class' travel or delays. Avoiding the Motorways as a norm might take longer.......but you can, by and large, always keep moving.....plus you can stop for a break. James Hennighan Yorkshire, England
Voyagers are actually a good train ( my opinion ) Compared to the 800 family trains, they aren’t that bad. Although they show their age, and aren’t too well maintained, the voyagers do make a lovely sound.
@@andrewnelson4057 They were.. But I strongly agree with Camymanc- The ex Avanti/current Avanti sets are in a far superior condition compared with their Cross Country "cousins."
The voyagers aren't as bad as people make out. The problem came when Virgin replaced full length HST, (the best train ever made in Britain), with a 4 or 5 car Voyager leading to the inevitable overcrowding. At least the seats aren't washboards like the current Japanese fleets ! Though they'll never match up to the fabulous IC70 seats.
I’d love to see these trains operating a direct service from York via Leeds Bradford and Manchester Victoria to Holyhead without having to change trains enroute, such as at Chester or Lladnuo, as there are not enough direct trains to Holyhead across the North of England at this capacity - eternally, TfW trains are always short of carriages and it’s a tight squeeze even on Avanti, as many passengers are on SailRail - there should be more dedicated SailRail services across the North of England, timed to meet Irish Ferries and Stena Check-Ins and ferry arrivals from Dublin, as the current SailRail Product offering needs a root and branch overhaul
You often mention loo paper on the floor when reviewing toilets. This is due to pax being careless and I don't see how the TOC can do anything about that except between trips.
I live in the Bradford area, but I would always go with LNER, because there are a lot more options (although a change at Leeds is needed for most connections). I have used Grand Central once, but it takes a LONG time to get to the main line at Doncaster. With a flexible ticket there are trains every half hour between Leeds and London via LNER. It irritates me that the Grand Central trains occupy a platform at Interchange for a long time, which means that some trains with close departure times have to share a platform (e.g. the 07:34 Manchester and the 07:38 Huddersfield share platform 2 because there's a Grand Central train blocking platform 1).
I use Grand Central usually about 2 or 3 times each year between London and Bradford. Last went in September and it was class 221 both ways; definitely prefer the class 180s, never had a problem with them except for one cancellation in very severe weather some years ago. I’ll be going up there again a couple of days after Christmas. I used to do Bradford by National Express coach, but this days I have bad legs which don’t like sitting for the five hour journey, so I go by train now. I’ve used the Sunderland service twice to get to Middlesbrough, changing to a local train at I can’t remember where; pity Grand Central don’t serve Middlesbrough directly. I will be doing this trip again in the summer, so perhaps I’ll get another trip on the 180s then.
Love the glamorous music for the seat tour! 😀 Makes me wonder- have you heard whether the infusion of new Voyagers has made much of a difference at CrossCountry?
Had a trip from Northallerton - King's Cross in September on not 1 but 2 Class 180s as the first one was buggered and we swapped to another one at Doncaster
A GOOD REVIEW.. All in all, a good review of this service........ Well up to your usual standard... One point worthy of note is that Grand Central are to ut the Vyagers on the West Riding Service, and leave the Adelantes on the Teeside Service... Why so...? Surely mixing them up........and advising us which service was to be operated by Voyager and which by Adelante......would serve as a Customer Service / Usage Review Survey..? Looks like the drive to York with an overnight stay and then using the Adelantes makes more sense.......even if it does push the cost up. James Hennighan Yorkshire, England
Never travelled with Grand Central before but I’ve been on several Cross Country services and never had any issues with the Voyager trains. They’ve always been very comfortable, a little noisy but less noisy than the Azuma’s and a damn site more pleasant interior too. Do these Voyagers tilt or have Arriva disconnected the mechanism? Great video. Enjoyed this very much.
I live in Doncaster, I’ve travelled extensively up and down the East Coast Mainline for 15 years spending money I could probably buy a house with😂. It’s difficult for me to use Grand Central / Hull trains into London because of how late they arrive but I’ve used them many times to get home. I’m quite tall at 6ft4” so I find them extremely uncomfortable. Only Cross Country trains are more uncomfortable but fortunately I don’t need to travel Birmingham way on very often. For me, from starting with GNER to LNER these have been the trains I’ve spent hours of my life on. Each time the private operator went into government ownership the service improved significantly. Currently, in my opinion LNER is the best train operator in the UK. Really good onboard service, reliable, spacious trains, very good 1st class offering and in my experience they also manage their stations well. I don’t agree with the prices, I think train travel is extortionate overall in the UK but compare the points above with the likes of Cross Country, TransPennie and its head and shoulders above them. Again in my opinion and experience.
I would say Wakefield Kirkgate is one of the most depressing stations I've been to. Plus, from what I understand, it's not a very safe station in the evening.
it used to be FAR WORSE. I travelled through it regularly back in the mid 2000's and it was usually late at night. The guard often didn't open all the doors unless passengers needed to get off, and if anyone wanted to get on they had to go to the door where the guard was. I can only imagine the trouble they must have dealt with in order to force that kind of working. It has since been "refurbished" and is better than it was, but its still bleak and desolate when its quiet.
It's a pity that the Voyagers get a bad press as they were victims of their own success - they revolutionised cross-country routes when introduced in 2001; service frequencies doubled and journey times dropped sharply on routes like Reading-Oxford-Birmingham. So then a lot more people used them and there weren't enough coaches, and no investment to build more. Also too many giant disabled toilets per set, reducing numbers of seats - and the mysterious smell!
I live in Sheffield but will often use the ECML to from Doncaster to Kings Cross rather than the MML to St Pancras, mostly because I hate St Pancras station with a passion. Grand Central are often the cheapest and fastest option between Doncaster and London and I've used them a number of times but the inability to choose your own seat like LNER allows often puts me off, especially as the 180s are very table-heavy and I'd really rather not sit at a table seat if I can help it and they're often already very busy by the time they reach Doncaster. Grand Central are definitely a success story and provide a service to underserved areas which is great, but they desperately need longer, bi-mode trains. The voyagers are definitely better in every way than the 180s but the wasted pathing capacity from running 5 car trains on a crowded intercity mainline and running diesel under the wires for such long distances really isn't sustainable.
Voyager doesn't bad. true, that design of front is similiar at FYRA. But is better than HITACHI's big "things". I happy that Grand Central used that potential had that trains.
Very good video Mate. I love Voyagers. Shame that they are really hated though. They are way better compared to the Adalentes in terms of reliabillity. And it's good that Grand Central have a few.
Great video! The Voyagers are good trains if used on appropriate routes like London to Bradford/Sunderland. With EMR offloading their 222s Grand Central should lease 10 of them so they can do away with the 10 class 180s and the 2 Class 221s.
The main problem with Voyagers is Cross Country using 4 coach formations when 8 or 12 is needed. I much prefer a Voyager to a Hitachi IET, which are truly dreadful trains.
I bet apart from the seats you cannot name one other thing. If it is the ride then blame the infrastructure, as a Swiss train would struggle on our network. As for the seats all the TOCs have learnt the lesson and it is boring complaint by those with little imagination..
Whoever wrote the tender specification / approved the design for the Voyager fleet was a mindless idiot! It was obvious back then that they’d accumulate >50% of their mileage travelling under the 25kv overhead wires….. The fleet has almost everything needed to be retrofitted to bi-mode (E.g. traction system) yet there is no pantograph well, no space for a transformer nor are there any intermediate and low voltage bus lines. It’s so sad that it was never designed with future proofing in mind. The marginal cost difference back then would have been negligible. Even despite this terrible mistake, the fleet should have been retrofitted by adding an additional pantograph / trailer car years ago, whilst the assets were young enough to be worth the investment. I know about the aborted “Project Thor / eVoyager” proposal, but that was always going to fail to achieve a credible business case because it wasn’t let as a competitive tender. As for the long term future, I could see this fleet having its engines and propulsion scrapped at some point and then being used as loco hauled coach stock.
I mean, they probably do. The "Eau de Voyager" is a design feature - basically, the exhaust piping - which, remember, everyone knows gets really rather hot on any vehicle with an engine - runs next to the retention tank and heats up the piss, shite and whatever else people put down the bog... and the smell of cooking shit, predictably, spreads across the carriage.
I’ve heard that Grand Central want new Bi-mode trains and to replace Class 221 Voyagers and Class 180 Adelantes. I think that they should keep the Class 180 and Class 221 that have been cascaded from Avanti West Coast.
I expect there is an environmental argument for getting rid of the 180s, as they run on diesel between Northallerton and London which is electrified. A bi mode would pollute a lot less.
Honestly, I've grown to like them too. Once you can see/smell past the overcrowding, dirt, worn-out interiors and diesel fume toilet smell, they're genuinely nice trains - nice seats, bigger windows than the pendolinos, decent acceleration, smooth ride, and headroom in the vestibule when you inevitably end up standing in it. If only there were double the number of trains, with double the number of carriages, they might be a very pleasant experience
They are terrible: small overhead luggage racks, cramped interior because of the body profile intended for tilting, narrow windows, smelly tiolets, etc. The trains operated by LNER and TransPennine are much nicer.
I don't think you need to worry, the amount of aggro to get them route cleared means GC won't bother. We are supposed to be getting new trains on the Sunderland services when their track access is extended, although these will probably be 802s which are unlikely to be as comfortable as the 180s, but should be more reliable!
The street stencil at 01:15 if of 'Bradford Jesus Man' Geoffrey Brindley (he has a Wiki). It has been painted over, without explanation, many months ago, so this film has obviously been some time in the editing. The front entrance of the Interchange has reopened, but the shops and bus stops are still closed. On top of that the side ramp access has been shut. Combined with Bradford's chaotic multiple road rebuilds, that mean I, and many others, have to walk massive detours or walk in the road, if you can work out which way to go! I use Grand Central a lot. It's the only direct service from Bradford to most of the stations on route; and while LNER do serve London from Forster Square, the frequency and run-times are pathetic. That, and the low cost, means I have put up with the 180's appalling reliability. The Voyagers are better in every way, apart from the space in Standard, but seeing it's usually less than half full between BDI and DON that is less important.
I wonder if they are the most hated. Have these people never used class 700s? Oh, and having travelled from London to Bradford on the GCR, it was a pleasant enough journey. Not luxurious but not uncomfortable either.
The Voyager is a nice train , but it,s very noisy dieseltrain , my favorit British train is the electric Pendolino and that train is going faster than the Voyager train !
Voyagers have the same top speed. And can possibly out perform a 390. They are noisy, they are smelly, they are pretty questionable. But still a useful train, they never really fulfilled their true purpose. 390 Pendolino’s aren’t much better
@@Danse_Macabre_125 Between 60-125 (both accelerating & braking), a Pendolino is way faster than a Voyager, which makes a huge difference on a section with limits of 100, 80 etc then back up to 125.
A useful review. Considering the mission that the Voyagers were built for in 2002, I believe that they have done well - I used them extensively up to 2020, from the South Coast to Manchester and they worked well. I *do* agree about the benefits of using First Class. I guess that (when the commentary disappeared) that 17:20 sees the hitchin flyover?.
GRAND CENTRAL - THE ADELANTES I am not sure where this remark about the 'Adelante' 180's breaking down comes from, since in my experience, using them on both the Halifax and the York services they have been outstanding. I have never experienced a breakdown at any time. The example shown of the First Class on the Voyager 222.........admitedly not refurbished here.........is pretty dreadful. On this showing alone it is not worth it for a First Class journey. The actual problem here is the type of plastic seating carcas used........and of course the old thorny issues of seat density per coach and table / seat window placings. For some strange reason I find quite unfathomable, this type of seating carcas is in use by too many train companies. It is cramped and far higher than it should be. In fact, I consider it to be quite claustraphobic. It is especially so in so-called 'Airline' configuration; a torment introduced on us by BR, which was always an insult to passengers. In my view, the Adelantes, represent arrguably the finest class of DMU we have seen on the railway for decades, and should have been the standard template for DMU's across the country. They are smooth running and quick off the mark. Given favourable signals I have not found a faster departure with them from any station. First Class in them is as comfortable as one could wish for, with very good legroom. I first spotted the legroom on one of them in service years back with Hull Trains. The issue here is the type and quality of the seat carcas, which is wider than the Voyagers and not as high. This lends itself to comfort as a startng point. I would consider that a comparison between the Adelante and a Voyager is the same as that between the HST and a Voyager, where the latter loses out every time. It is.....or was......the reason why I would always rate the HST for a journey down to The West Country over that of a Voyager. I only made the mistake of travelling on a Voyager from Leeds to Newton Abbott once.........and this was when it turned up at Wakefield. NEVER AGAIN. Knowing which services were HST and which were Voyager always made it possible to judge if a journey should be by car or not........or by a different train. I could chose Grand Central 'Adelante' from Yorkshire to Kings + and then HST from Paddington to Newton Abbott and still save money with judicial journey planning, but then I have knowledge of railways.......whoa-betide the ordinary passenger. I would rather take my time and drive toThe West Country than travel on a Voyager. The term 'Cattle Class' was never more appropriate. Grand Central would do well to take the pattern of their Adelante First Class and use it for ALL their coaches, both in seating configuration and placement. Ditching the concept of 'Airline' seating would be a good start and returning to the pattern of 'Table to Window' as was the case when the Mark 3's were introduced on the Manchester / Liverpool to Euston services......long before some bright-spark in either BR or the DOT, (er, probably both), decided that 'Airline' seating made sense on trains... Wiser Counsels within Grand Crentral would be aquiring displaced HST's before they are scrapped, (surely one of the crimes of the century), or shipped off to other countries, and using these for future service expansion. It beggars belief that the HST fleet has not been expanded upon with additional coaches and a range of newer Power Cars, rather than the Hitachi 800 Class stuff that seems to be pou.ring into the country. James Hennighan Yorkshire, England
I'd have a Voyager over a Cl 180 every day of the week!!! The 180s were just not suitable - rattly noisy and uncomfortable. The Voyagers are better though admittedly they aren't the very best - the ride is a bit suspect. Do the refurbished Voyagers still smell of wee like the Cross Country ones used to?
I us the Doncaster to London route lots but only been on Grand Central once as I mainly travel with one of the others. I am not a fan of the Voyagers so that was I catch the others
Anyone who is old enough recall the days of British Rail will confirm there are no bad modern trains. Unless you are nostalgic for sitting on badly stained seats while last weeks plastic cups rolled around the floor. While the intercity 127 buffet service only opened for the last half hour of a 6 hour journey. However you did get exercise walk up and down the train looking for that one toilet that was working. Also you always got a seat as the trains were timetabled to run at a time no one wanted to travel
I am old enough to remember BR & it was nowhere near as bad as you make out. I never stood on a platform waiting for the last train then saw it simply disappear from the notice boards without any warning or announcement. That was after privatisation.
@TheRip72 I spent many hours after work sitting on a platform as trains had been cancelled. If I missed the 17.30 train or as happened often it was cancelled the next on wasn't till 19.15. Durring the day when hardly anyone travelled the trains ran ever half hour. At peak computer times they didn't they ran either every hour or with longer gaps. Season tickets were not accepted as weekends. I worked Saturdays. It was cheaper to buy two single ticket than get a peak time return. After a year of attempting to get to work by train a gave up and drove to work even though with parking it cost more. People always look on the past through rose tinted glasses. They forget how bad was British Rail
Question : who came up with idea to pay a company to design and build the Adelante and Bombadier replacements for HSTs ? re-engined and refurbished, class 253 should still be on the tracks instead of the current abominations running on the GC and cross-country services.
You mean the stop-gaps with a 12 year design life which have been in service since 1976-82? They are pretty tired now & the few which remain are using spares from the withdrawn ones at a high rate.
I wonder what the livery of the trains that are in private ownership now be painted when government owned not the old boring British rail ones back in the day Can't see them forking out millions to repaint either be interesting
That's a very; very lenient review of an extremely average rail service. You travelled in first so that's most of us not bothered. Catering is poor. Slow train to Donny and it's a Virgin Voyager (I've never heard to word Avanti used so much to describe Richard Branson's 23 year old trains). Nah. LNER is miles, miles better.
Do they still rattle incessantly, have massively uncomfortable seats and worst of all have stinking toilets which leak foul water under the floor of adjacent seats? 🤮
I find it fascinating that both arriva and first are still there in their ugly selfs, but hidden by a new persona, they are a disgusting excuse for a company and along with the original virgin and stage coach should have been abolished and prevented from ever owning a franchise again!
Good video! I’ve had to endure one of the these units on a trip I did not so long ago, but I did it northbound. They seem a tad better than the voyagers that XC use, but I prefer the 180s. The one fundamental thing about them is, as you mention, they’re far too cramped. WHY? Why can’t this be noted before it’s too late? The seating needs to be more spacious. Get rid of hideous airline style seats and add more tables. For more capacity simply make them longer. Instead of five coaches make them eight or nine, or maybe even ten.
Not sure if it was just me, but every journey on the 180's was actually good. Not once was there a single breakdown in the 8 journeys i've taken on them.
exactly. ive talen a total of 0 journeys on them and out of all of thise journeys, the train never broke down
That wheelchair space, that's why I hate the Voyagers. On other trains I'm allowed to have friends! 80x trains the wheelchair space is in a table set so I can sit with friends and family instead of crammed in a corner by myself.
I have only used Grand Central once
many many years ago
My parents lived in Huddersfield and their nearest stations
were Brighouse and Mirfield
so going back to London we tried
Grand Central from Brighouse to London.
The interesting thing was they had a station volunteer team
at Brighouse.
This was a great help as my partner is disabled so
getting him in the train and knowing where to stand
were helpful.
The problem is the lack of services running
so I generally used either Wakefield Westgate
or Manchester Picadilly to connect to Main Line services.
"I work a FULL-TIME" job
I've travelled from Yorkshire to London on Grand Central many many times and have never suffered any delays more than one or two minutes, and not one breakdown in dozens of journeys. The trains have always been clean, fast and comfortable - what more can you want
Pity about the 180’s. I used one from Moreton in Marsh to Reading way back in 2014. It was the most comfortable train we rode on during our 3 month UK holiday. We did 141 trains in that time, and the Voyagers were the worst, especially when travelling through the Midlands when they were often overloaded.
I'm a fan of the 180's too. Most people seem to dislike them.
They were nice, when they worked.
When they work they are great
I think you'll find the UK's most hated trains are the gwr shithatchi 800's
I used to place Voyager's at the top of my shit list, but then realised most of the issue is the atrocious XCountry service with their horrific capacity problems...the Shitatchi are so utterly abysmal with the seat base problem and shaking that they have taken the crown now.
gwr ones arent great but they're fine, do the job and a fairly pleasent experience. avanti and lumo's 80x trains are really goos, but that's because the TOC was willing to spend more money on them
It's a pity that the Voyagers get a bad press as they were victims of their own success - they revolutionised cross-country routes when introduced in 2001; service frequencies doubled and journey times dropped sharply on routes like Reading-Oxford-Birmingham. So then a lot more people used them and there weren't enough coaches, and no investment to build more. Also too many giant disabled toilets per set, reducing numbers of seats - and the mysterious smell!
Too right! I had to endure one of them all the way from Port Talbot to Paddington! I couldn’t wait to get off it on arrival in Paddington!
OH GROW UP!!!! You’re only bitter cos they ain’t a bloody STEAM TRAIN OR BRITISH MADE !!! 🙄🙄🙄
I'm glad Avanti is getting rid of these, sorry for those folk who are now stuck with them
If they extended that black livery across the whole train they'd actually look really good
as it stands though, they look a bit half assed
The centre of Braford looks a whole lot different now (Nov 24) than your video which looks like it was filmed nearly 12 months ago! The statue at Low Moor comes from one of the old Bradford Mela festival floats which was saved by the council's Highways Team and placed to create a new local landmark in a nod to the industrial heritage of Low Moor.
Nice video. I love the Avanti/ex Avanti Super Voyagers. I think if the the current Cross Country ones were refurbished to be identical to the Avanti ones, retained the Shop, had the better First Class offer and had far more carriages, they wouldn't be as disliked. Yes I realise it's extremely unlikely any of that will happen.
The FC section on these is fairly decent, provided there aren't a lot of passengers with suitcases as the stacking rack is small. No steward/trolley for first class is obviously poor, as is the refreshment offer. I had imagined GC had a higher spec offer but obviously not. Worth doing if you get a good price in FC but otherwise not.
why didnt they paint the entire train they only did the driving carriages and call it a day
Like seriously they had 1 job that they CAN'T Do right.
@@TheQualityQuintuple lol
I think because they're only being leased temporarily I want to say
I think it's because they're a temporary fix. I believe they're going to XC, but I'm not 100% sure.
@@johnUB4478the GC 221s are not intended for XC. Nothing confirmed in the public as yet anyway.
I would rather drive than get a voyager. I actively avoid them!
Yep..spot on.
On fuel costs alone I can make a journey to and from The West Country at cheaper...or closely comparable prices than by train.
Even if it ccosts me slightly more it is worth it to avoid the horrors of 'Cattle Class' travel or delays.
Avoiding the Motorways as a norm might take longer.......but you can, by and large, always keep moving.....plus you can stop for a break.
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
Voyagers are actually a good train ( my opinion ) Compared to the 800 family trains, they aren’t that bad. Although they show their age, and aren’t too well maintained, the voyagers do make a lovely sound.
The virgin voyagers seem to a lot better maintained than the cross country
Virgin and cross country were the same company.
@@andrewnelson4057 They were.. But I strongly agree with Camymanc- The ex Avanti/current Avanti sets are in a far superior condition compared with their Cross Country "cousins."
@@manufan2007Oh, don't you worry; XC will devolve them as soon as they can get their grubby little hands on the full ex AWC fleet!
Well my uncle drives for XC and he says they are getting a full refurb and livery
Some of the XC interiors are disgusting and haven't been updated since 2007.
The voyagers aren't as bad as people make out. The problem came when Virgin replaced full length HST, (the best train ever made in Britain), with a 4 or 5 car Voyager leading to the inevitable overcrowding. At least the seats aren't washboards like the current Japanese fleets ! Though they'll never match up to the fabulous IC70 seats.
I lived in Halifax. It’s great you can actually get a direct train to and from London now. I used to drive to Wakefield Westgate to get trains.
I’d love to see these trains operating a direct service from York via Leeds Bradford and Manchester Victoria to Holyhead without having to change trains enroute, such as at Chester or Lladnuo, as there are not enough direct trains to Holyhead across the North of England at this capacity - eternally, TfW trains are always short of carriages and it’s a tight squeeze even on Avanti, as many passengers are on SailRail - there should be more dedicated SailRail services across the North of England, timed to meet Irish Ferries and Stena Check-Ins and ferry arrivals from Dublin, as the current SailRail Product offering needs a root and branch overhaul
That WAS the original plan.
You often mention loo paper on the floor when reviewing toilets. This is due to pax being careless and I don't see how the TOC can do anything about that except between trips.
Interesting route from Bradford to Doncaster.
The best thing to do with the 180s (and the similar 175) would be to turn them into locomotive powered push-pull sets.
I live in the Bradford area, but I would always go with LNER, because there are a lot more options (although a change at Leeds is needed for most connections). I have used Grand Central once, but it takes a LONG time to get to the main line at Doncaster. With a flexible ticket there are trains every half hour between Leeds and London via LNER.
It irritates me that the Grand Central trains occupy a platform at Interchange for a long time, which means that some trains with close departure times have to share a platform (e.g. the 07:34 Manchester and the 07:38 Huddersfield share platform 2 because there's a Grand Central train blocking platform 1).
I use Grand Central usually about 2 or 3 times each year between London and Bradford. Last went in September and it was class 221 both ways; definitely prefer the class 180s, never had a problem with them except for one cancellation in very severe weather some years ago. I’ll be going up there again a couple of days after Christmas. I used to do Bradford by National Express coach, but this days I have bad legs which don’t like sitting for the five hour journey, so I go by train now.
I’ve used the Sunderland service twice to get to Middlesbrough, changing to a local train at I can’t remember where; pity Grand Central don’t serve Middlesbrough directly. I will be doing this trip again in the summer, so perhaps I’ll get another trip on the 180s then.
Love the glamorous music for the seat tour! 😀
Makes me wonder- have you heard whether the infusion of new Voyagers has made much of a difference at CrossCountry?
Had a trip from Northallerton - King's Cross in September on not 1 but 2 Class 180s as the first one was buggered and we swapped to another one at Doncaster
A GOOD REVIEW..
All in all, a good review of this service........
Well up to your usual standard...
One point worthy of note is that Grand Central are to ut the Vyagers on the West Riding Service, and leave the Adelantes on the Teeside Service...
Why so...?
Surely mixing them up........and advising us which service was to be operated by Voyager and which by Adelante......would serve as a Customer Service / Usage Review Survey..?
Looks like the drive to York with an overnight stay and then using the Adelantes makes more sense.......even if it does push the cost up.
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
Never travelled with Grand Central before but I’ve been on several Cross Country services and never had any issues with the Voyager trains. They’ve always been very comfortable, a little noisy but less noisy than the Azuma’s and a damn site more pleasant interior too.
Do these Voyagers tilt or have Arriva disconnected the mechanism?
Great video. Enjoyed this very much.
I live in Doncaster, I’ve travelled extensively up and down the East Coast Mainline for 15 years spending money I could probably buy a house with😂. It’s difficult for me to use Grand Central / Hull trains into London because of how late they arrive but I’ve used them many times to get home. I’m quite tall at 6ft4” so I find them extremely uncomfortable. Only Cross Country trains are more uncomfortable but fortunately I don’t need to travel Birmingham way on very often.
For me, from starting with GNER to LNER these have been the trains I’ve spent hours of my life on. Each time the private operator went into government ownership the service improved significantly. Currently, in my opinion LNER is the best train operator in the UK. Really good onboard service, reliable, spacious trains, very good 1st class offering and in my experience they also manage their stations well. I don’t agree with the prices, I think train travel is extortionate overall in the UK but compare the points above with the likes of Cross Country, TransPennie and its head and shoulders above them. Again in my opinion and experience.
Lots of video featuring secuirty and police in Bradford with the dystopian feel, thanks for sharing.
I would say Wakefield Kirkgate is one of the most depressing stations I've been to. Plus, from what I understand, it's not a very safe station in the evening.
I count myself lucky when I travel through it on my regular trips to Leeds (if I'm on a Northern service)
it used to be FAR WORSE. I travelled through it regularly back in the mid 2000's and it was usually late at night. The guard often didn't open all the doors unless passengers needed to get off, and if anyone wanted to get on they had to go to the door where the guard was. I can only imagine the trouble they must have dealt with in order to force that kind of working.
It has since been "refurbished" and is better than it was, but its still bleak and desolate when its quiet.
I've seen one before weeks aog because i see grand Central trains and northern rail but the class 221 and 220 are my favourite trains
Thank you for sharing.
Great Video, can I ask what Speedometer app are you using, thanks.
It's a pity that the Voyagers get a bad press as they were victims of their own success - they revolutionised cross-country routes when introduced in 2001; service frequencies doubled and journey times dropped sharply on routes like Reading-Oxford-Birmingham. So then a lot more people used them and there weren't enough coaches, and no investment to build more. Also too many giant disabled toilets per set, reducing numbers of seats - and the mysterious smell!
I live in Sheffield but will often use the ECML to from Doncaster to Kings Cross rather than the MML to St Pancras, mostly because I hate St Pancras station with a passion.
Grand Central are often the cheapest and fastest option between Doncaster and London and I've used them a number of times but the inability to choose your own seat like LNER allows often puts me off, especially as the 180s are very table-heavy and I'd really rather not sit at a table seat if I can help it and they're often already very busy by the time they reach Doncaster.
Grand Central are definitely a success story and provide a service to underserved areas which is great, but they desperately need longer, bi-mode trains.
The voyagers are definitely better in every way than the 180s but the wasted pathing capacity from running 5 car trains on a crowded intercity mainline and running diesel under the wires for such long distances really isn't sustainable.
Voyager doesn't bad. true, that design of front is similiar at FYRA. But is better than HITACHI's big "things".
I happy that Grand Central used that potential had that trains.
Very good video Mate. I love Voyagers. Shame that they are really hated though. They are way better compared to the Adalentes in terms of reliabillity. And it's good that Grand Central have a few.
I love UK trains
Great video! The Voyagers are good trains if used on appropriate routes like London to Bradford/Sunderland.
With EMR offloading their 222s Grand Central should lease 10 of them so they can do away with the 10 class 180s and the 2 Class 221s.
Won’t happen as the 180s have been fitted with ETCS.
222’s Also aren’t route cleared up to Sunderland
@@cameronyoung6170 only because they haven’t needed to be. It’s academic.
Give me a good old Diesel loco and 12 mk2 or mk3 coaches every time.
The main problem with Voyagers is Cross Country using 4 coach formations when 8 or 12 is needed. I much prefer a Voyager to a Hitachi IET, which are truly dreadful trains.
The problem with 12 coach formations, is you also need inter unit gangways, and no "Inter-City" stock has them anymore....
I bet apart from the seats you cannot name one other thing. If it is the ride then blame the infrastructure, as a Swiss train would struggle on our network. As for the seats all the TOCs have learnt the lesson and it is boring complaint by those with little imagination..
@@neilboulton9813 I never mentioned seats.
What happened to Brighouse Station ?
Numerous times I have caught this service from my hometown.
Whoever wrote the tender specification / approved the design for the Voyager fleet was a mindless idiot! It was obvious back then that they’d accumulate >50% of their mileage travelling under the 25kv overhead wires…..
The fleet has almost everything needed to be retrofitted to bi-mode (E.g. traction system) yet there is no pantograph well, no space for a transformer nor are there any intermediate and low voltage bus lines. It’s so sad that it was never designed with future proofing in mind. The marginal cost difference back then would have been negligible.
Even despite this terrible mistake, the fleet should have been retrofitted by adding an additional pantograph / trailer car years ago, whilst the assets were young enough to be worth the investment. I know about the aborted “Project Thor / eVoyager” proposal, but that was always going to fail to achieve a credible business case because it wasn’t let as a competitive tender.
As for the long term future, I could see this fleet having its engines and propulsion scrapped at some point and then being used as loco hauled coach stock.
GC do often serve Pontefract on Sunday.
I love the voyagers
Do they still smell like toilets? I get cross country voyagers regularly and they stink and the seats are so worn out
I mean, they probably do. The "Eau de Voyager" is a design feature - basically, the exhaust piping - which, remember, everyone knows gets really rather hot on any vehicle with an engine - runs next to the retention tank and heats up the piss, shite and whatever else people put down the bog... and the smell of cooking shit, predictably, spreads across the carriage.
Sorry you had to spend an hour there. Also you right about it being a dead end...
Voyagers were hated because of what the replaced however preferred over the 800s
good commentry from you mate
I’ve heard that Grand Central want new Bi-mode trains and to replace Class 221 Voyagers and Class 180 Adelantes. I think that they should keep the Class 180 and Class 221 that have been cascaded from Avanti West Coast.
Subject to track access being extended.
Why should they keep trains that another operator may need?
For example ScotRail to replace their ageing HST fleet?
@@cameronirvine37703Good question
I expect there is an environmental argument for getting rid of the 180s, as they run on diesel between Northallerton and London which is electrified. A bi mode would pollute a lot less.
Can't wait to watch this
Don’t know how the voyagers are so hated I love them. And same for the 180s I know they are unreliable but still great trains
Honestly, I've grown to like them too. Once you can see/smell past the overcrowding, dirt, worn-out interiors and diesel fume toilet smell, they're genuinely nice trains - nice seats, bigger windows than the pendolinos, decent acceleration, smooth ride, and headroom in the vestibule when you inevitably end up standing in it. If only there were double the number of trains, with double the number of carriages, they might be a very pleasant experience
They are terrible: small overhead luggage racks, cramped interior because of the body profile intended for tilting, narrow windows, smelly tiolets, etc.
The trains operated by LNER and TransPennine are much nicer.
@@jerry2357 good point, luggage and bike storage is completely inadequate
@@jamesheath4845 agreed.
@@jerry2357 Yeah honestly LNER Is very nice whenever I travel with them it’s really good
Wonder if they will use the Class 221 for the new West Coast service starting next year.
Nice video! Just wondering what equipment do you use when recording videos?
Another Great video from you! Really wish to go on rrand central on day
Did you see the second class passengers in the first class carriage?
Great video, as someone who travels to west yorkshire id be intrested to know what rail card you used for this journey.
what's the name of the song around 1:00?
are they still able to tilt?
@13:05 that map of the train is a Virgin Trains one
Do they still tilt?
180s aren’t that bad
if they ever put voyagers on the route from sunderland to london king x i’ll start using LNER
I don't think you need to worry, the amount of aggro to get them route cleared means GC won't bother. We are supposed to be getting new trains on the Sunderland services when their track access is extended, although these will probably be 802s which are unlikely to be as comfortable as the 180s, but should be more reliable!
@ i quite like the 80X trains, as a fairly regular passenger on the Sunderland route i’d be quite happy with those!
The street stencil at 01:15 if of 'Bradford Jesus Man' Geoffrey Brindley (he has a Wiki). It has been painted over, without explanation, many months ago, so this film has obviously been some time in the editing.
The front entrance of the Interchange has reopened, but the shops and bus stops are still closed. On top of that the side ramp access has been shut. Combined with Bradford's chaotic multiple road rebuilds, that mean I, and many others, have to walk massive detours or walk in the road, if you can work out which way to go!
I use Grand Central a lot. It's the only direct service from Bradford to most of the stations on route; and while LNER do serve London from Forster Square, the frequency and run-times are pathetic. That, and the low cost, means I have put up with the 180's appalling reliability. The Voyagers are better in every way, apart from the space in Standard, but seeing it's usually less than half full between BDI and DON that is less important.
I wonder if they are the most hated. Have these people never used class 700s? Oh, and having travelled from London to Bradford on the GCR, it was a pleasant enough journey. Not luxurious but not uncomfortable either.
The Voyager is a nice train , but it,s very noisy dieseltrain , my favorit British train is the electric Pendolino and that train is going faster than the Voyager train !
They both go 125mph, and the Voyagers accelerate faster.
Voyagers have the same top speed. And can possibly out perform a 390.
They are noisy, they are smelly, they are pretty questionable. But still a useful train, they never really fulfilled their true purpose.
390 Pendolino’s aren’t much better
@@Danse_Macabre_125 Between 60-125 (both accelerating & braking), a Pendolino is way faster than a Voyager, which makes a huge difference on a section with limits of 100, 80 etc then back up to 125.
I think the class 8xx are likely the most hated. What's you're source? Was there a survey?
I truly HATE these trains the fact that they replaced the loved hsts witch i truly love
No I've never travelled on Grand Central.
A useful review. Considering the mission that the Voyagers were built for in 2002, I believe that they have done well - I used them extensively up to 2020, from the South Coast to Manchester and they worked well. I *do* agree about the benefits of using First Class. I guess that (when the commentary disappeared) that 17:20 sees the hitchin flyover?.
No wonder, Arriva are just running the trains into the ground
GRAND CENTRAL - THE ADELANTES
I am not sure where this remark about the 'Adelante' 180's breaking down comes from, since in my experience, using them on both the Halifax and the York services they have been outstanding. I have never experienced a breakdown at any time.
The example shown of the First Class on the Voyager 222.........admitedly not refurbished here.........is pretty dreadful.
On this showing alone it is not worth it for a First Class journey.
The actual problem here is the type of plastic seating carcas used........and of course the old thorny issues of seat density per coach and table / seat window placings.
For some strange reason I find quite unfathomable, this type of seating carcas is in use by too many train companies. It is cramped and far higher than it should be. In fact, I consider it to be quite claustraphobic. It is especially so in so-called 'Airline' configuration; a torment introduced on us by BR, which was always an insult to passengers.
In my view, the Adelantes, represent arrguably the finest class of DMU we have seen on the railway for decades, and should have been the standard template for DMU's across the country. They are smooth running and quick off the mark. Given favourable signals I have not found a faster departure with them from any station. First Class in them is as comfortable as one could wish for, with very good legroom. I first spotted the legroom on one of them in service years back with Hull Trains.
The issue here is the type and quality of the seat carcas, which is wider than the Voyagers and not as high. This lends itself to comfort as a startng point.
I would consider that a comparison between the Adelante and a Voyager is the same as that between the HST and a Voyager, where the latter loses out every time. It is.....or was......the reason why I would always rate the HST for a journey down to The West Country over that of a Voyager. I only made the mistake of travelling on a Voyager from Leeds to Newton Abbott once.........and this was when it turned up at Wakefield. NEVER AGAIN.
Knowing which services were HST and which were Voyager always made it possible to judge if a journey should be by car or not........or by a different train.
I could chose Grand Central 'Adelante' from Yorkshire to Kings + and then HST from Paddington to Newton Abbott and still save money with judicial journey planning, but then I have knowledge of railways.......whoa-betide the ordinary passenger.
I would rather take my time and drive toThe West Country than travel on a Voyager.
The term 'Cattle Class' was never more appropriate.
Grand Central would do well to take the pattern of their Adelante First Class and use it for ALL their coaches, both in seating configuration and placement. Ditching the concept of 'Airline' seating would be a good start and returning to the pattern of 'Table to Window' as was the case when the Mark 3's were introduced on the Manchester / Liverpool to Euston services......long before some bright-spark in either BR or the DOT, (er, probably both), decided that 'Airline' seating made sense on trains...
Wiser Counsels within Grand Crentral would be aquiring displaced HST's before they are scrapped, (surely one of the crimes of the century), or shipped off to other countries, and using these for future service expansion.
It beggars belief that the HST fleet has not been expanded upon with additional coaches and a range of newer Power Cars, rather than the Hitachi 800 Class stuff that seems to be pou.ring into the country.
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
The chunk of concrete was approx 50cm x 50cm
yet nobody has seen any repair work ever happening on it either
Damn,,,,almost 2025 and the 180's are STILL as unreliable as ever!
You'd have thought they wold have fixed them by now.
I'd have a Voyager over a Cl 180 every day of the week!!! The 180s were just not suitable - rattly noisy and uncomfortable. The Voyagers are better though admittedly they aren't the very best - the ride is a bit suspect. Do the refurbished Voyagers still smell of wee like the Cross Country ones used to?
Concentrate on the advertised subject !!!!
More water if you run out in the front of the train???!!! I'll give that a miss thank you
When will the UK get some decent 300 km/h (186 mp/h for the hardliner Brits) lines on the main island? Really disappointed, 3rd Place Is never a win
21 years ago! Back in 2003 when the 1st section of the channel tunnel rail link (HS1) opened.
I us the Doncaster to London route lots but only been on Grand Central once as I mainly travel with one of the others. I am not a fan of the Voyagers so that was I catch the others
I have heard they have been a lot of problems with the Voyagers.
Why describe LNER as 'legacy'?
Train Station!
Diesel, evil since Rev Audrey introduced him back in the day
Certainly don't miss those horrid things
Mobile phones everywhere.
Hi
Anyone who is old enough recall the days of British Rail will confirm there are no bad modern trains. Unless you are nostalgic for sitting on badly stained seats while last weeks plastic cups rolled around the floor. While the intercity 127 buffet service only opened for the last half hour of a 6 hour journey. However you did get exercise walk up and down the train looking for that one toilet that was working. Also you always got a seat as the trains were timetabled to run at a time no one wanted to travel
B*llocks! The air conditioned Mk 2 coaches were considerably better than many current trains.
I am old enough to remember BR & it was nowhere near as bad as you make out.
I never stood on a platform waiting for the last train then saw it simply disappear from the notice boards without any warning or announcement. That was after privatisation.
@TheRip72 I spent many hours after work sitting on a platform as trains had been cancelled. If I missed the 17.30 train or as happened often it was cancelled the next on wasn't till 19.15. Durring the day when hardly anyone travelled the trains ran ever half hour. At peak computer times they didn't they ran either every hour or with longer gaps. Season tickets were not accepted as weekends. I worked Saturdays. It was cheaper to buy two single ticket than get a peak time return.
After a year of attempting to get to work by train a gave up and drove to work even though with parking it cost more. People always look on the past through rose tinted glasses. They forget how bad was British Rail
"British Rail have announced today that coffee is going up by 10 p a slice"
Two Ronnies
@@EE12CSVT I do miss the curled up dry 3 day old rubber cheese sandwiches. You can't get them anywhere after British Rail catering closed
Question : who came up with idea to pay a company to design and build the Adelante and Bombadier replacements for HSTs ?
re-engined and refurbished, class 253 should still be on the tracks instead of the current abominations running on the GC
and cross-country services.
You mean the stop-gaps with a 12 year design life which have been in service since 1976-82? They are pretty tired now & the few which remain are using spares from the withdrawn ones at a high rate.
I wonder what the livery of the trains that are in private ownership now be painted when government owned not the old boring British rail ones back in the day
Can't see them forking out millions to repaint either be interesting
Wow. Of you think that stop is a depressing state come to the states
That's a very; very lenient review of an extremely average rail service. You travelled in first so that's most of us not bothered. Catering is poor. Slow train to Donny and it's a Virgin Voyager (I've never heard to word Avanti used so much to describe Richard Branson's 23 year old trains). Nah. LNER is miles, miles better.
grand central owned by Arriva say no more theyre useless
Do they still rattle incessantly, have massively uncomfortable seats and worst of all have stinking toilets which leak foul water under the floor of adjacent seats? 🤮
There have been reconditioned there not new there the old West Country
If u want me to be honest I hate both the 180s and Voyagers
I find it fascinating that both arriva and first are still there in their ugly selfs, but hidden by a new persona, they are a disgusting excuse for a company and along with the original virgin and stage coach should have been abolished and prevented from ever owning a franchise again!
Gwr has better food options
Good video! I’ve had to endure one of the these units on a trip I did not so long ago, but I did it northbound.
They seem a tad better than the voyagers that XC use, but I prefer the 180s. The one fundamental thing about them is, as you mention, they’re far too cramped. WHY? Why can’t this be noted before it’s too late? The seating needs to be more spacious. Get rid of hideous airline style seats and add more tables. For more capacity simply make them longer. Instead of five coaches make them eight or nine, or maybe even ten.
There not new the class is over 20years old.
Bradford interchange the most depressing station on earth