You are right about the seats, someone sat in one for a seconds and pronounced them excellent and would never use them personally. Mk3 and Mk 4 coaches were so much more comfortable. A refurbishment is urgently needed.
It's the lack of attention to detail that I find most noticeable. Getting little details 'right' really matters - it's not being pernickety or anal..... especially if you've paid a huge amount. You deserve better than this. And the train operators need to spend more time on the design process, when it comes to the overall interior - from ergonomics, and practicality, to the actual look (little design touches).....not to mention how comfortable the seats are, or should be. And they need to be comfortable if you're going to be sat in one for five hours. How can they not get this right??! Very good review btw. I have subscribed! You notice how wrong we've got things when it comes to travelling by train, when you visit other European countries....and use the first class on trains in France, Spain, Germany etc.
I worked for Hitachi (EU) as an interior developer and advised that the seats were of a commuter standard and the lighting was like being at the dentists . Early morning travellers need to catch up on their sleep . A team member also commented on the welding of the lifting points . We were both dismissed after a year with them .
So basically, First Class is what Standard Class should be like. Comfort seems to have halved in the modern trains and yet prices seem to be double. You could actually say that about most things though
Pretty much the same across the country. Calling the service "First Class" should be regarded as fraudulent. Yes it's better than standard. Just. But not by much. Certainly not worth the extra cost. Most countries would see British "first class" as being substandard class.
I know of a couple of drivers that work these trains. When they were being trained on them, some Hitachi techs came over from Japan and they expressed their suprise that the UK were using these on long distance, intercity services! They are a short hop commuter unit and nothing more. So sad when we remember what went before them!
The Hitachi techs have good reason to be surprised. These trains are based on Hitachi's A-train family, which is designed for commuter and "limited express" services, the latter being a Japanese term for *local/regional* express trains, so short/medium distances and lower speeds. Then when Hitachi started exporting them, they went on to also market them for intercity and long-distance trains. But the UK's experience with them goes to show that they were not originally designed for that. They'll stay in one piece - at least so far, but the ride quality, seat comfort, and to some extent the interior design, are rather more what you'd expect on local/regional trains. It's perfectly adequate there, but it's unbecoming a long-distance train. It's a trend we're seeing more and more these days. Train operating companies that need new long-distance trains in the low end of the high-speed spectrum (around 200km/h) end up cheaping out on upgraded regional trains. I'm guessing the train manufacturers can apparently make it all work out on paper, upgrading the regional train design a bit to stretch the original 160km/h top speed to 200km/h so they can just about meet the buyer's specifications (which I then wonder if those are adequate to begin with), and that compared with the manufacturer being then able to offer lower prices - because it's still a regional train - makes these upgraded regional trains outprice the proper high-speed trains, even those designed for around 200km/h. And here we are. I should again mention that that theory is conjecture on my part, but it seems very likely to me.
It's a race to the bottom on price with the buyer not looking closely enough at whether what they are getting for the lowest price is actually fit for purpose. These trains are not.
By japanese standards most of the journeys are probably "short hop". London to bristol for example isn't even 200km. These trains are already too big to be easily used for a lot of UK stations, as well.
A GWR employee told me that the reason why the seats are so hard is because fitting more comfortable ones would have cost an extra £100 per seat. If you have a bad back and sore backside, it's because of money saving.
It's more to do with the over the top fire safety standards that are imposed on trains in the UK these days Padding and comfort of any kind is somehow believed to mean the train can imminently catch fire at any time 🙄
The train itself is very advanced technology. If GWR was to upgrade the seating in both First and standard class and offer proper food on board and make the ride more comfortable. This would be a great service.
I don’t hate the class 800, I just think they are average. The problem is they’re being used on flagship routes and are starting to absolutely dominate the UK intercity market. After all this time, the Pendolinos on the West Coast Main Line are still the best long distance trains in the UK.
Yep. And the titling makes me feel sick- I have to stand in the corridor ends. I've actually seen an unfortunate passenger throwing up because of the motion. The only way round it is to stand up and concentrate on looking out of the window- I helped her to do this and she stopped throwing up. You have to choose a carriage end without a loo, as the loos stink. @@updistant705
@luelou8464 They’re nice trains, but I’d put them in the category of commuter train rather than intercity simply because their top speed is 100mph rather than 125mph like the IETs and Pendolinos.
@luelou8464 I agree intercity may not be the best word to describe what I mean. I am referring to the 125mph high speed trains that typically operate on the major UK main lines.
I personally hate the pendelinos - they feel so claustrophobic and have massively insufficient luggage space considering the route, which only make them more cramped. personally the transpennine novas and the LNER azumas are my favourites I have tried, and some are literally the same train as this GWR Hitachi. Crazy how much of a difference better interiors can make!
I am old enough to remember when train seating was of the sprung variety, with plenty of padding on top. Very, very comfortable to sit on for hours on end. Admittedly back then BR did very little to keep them clean - often being full of dust, but I still cannot forget just how comfortable train seating used to be. It would seem that back then the designers really cared about the passengers being comfortable. That these days seem to be a low priority for most railway companies. I used to love travelling by rail, I hate it now, unless it's a special chartered train, or a preserved railway. I remember back in the 70's when the class 43 HST's came into service, the showed how to be modern, but still retain comfort for the passengers. The MK3 coaches were a joy to travel in. Back then I would find an excuse to travel by train, now I find excuses not to.
I remember them to and used to love traveling in the carriage with my mum and brother, sliding doors, big long chairs that is children used to sleep on. I used to plan my entire journey to do something every 5 minutes. Magical. Now I travel first class to have quiet only. People used to be so polite. I had to sit next to a lady who thought it was acceptable to fan her armpits in my face, a large lady who left me know room. Unbelievable, then there's the drunks, the loud talkers , I could go on. I'm 54 but will never forget those old trains❤
and yet upholstery technology is so much more advanced now. Memory foam is a consumer product rather than some experimental NASA material like it was back then.
You young TEENAGERS, 54 hardly grown up. It was even better in the 60's when even a DMU was comfortable, ON TIME and Clean. APT on offer costing a Research Budget of Ten Bob a Week, no wonder it failed@@traceyyelland2353
A very fair review of a beautiful route with very average trains. The Pullman Dining is a must, although it’s not cheap and I doubt it’s as good on an IET. I can’t agree with your description of the Night Riviera as a luxury sleeper train, it’s pretty much Premier Inn on wheels, but it is at least priced accordingly unlike Caledonian Sleeper.
@@Trainman10715 Not really, it’s now run by the Scottish Government who give it a vast subsidy. It would make more sense back in the Scotrail franchise operationally, but with separate CS branding.
@@iskra1234 I'm not reffering to government subsidy, gwr are government subsidised too, as we're Caledonian under serco. Gwr can subsidise there sleeper as they almost run at a profit, Caledonian sleeper runs at a massive loss
It is basivcally lip service, like the crap so-called cycle facilities found on the roads designed by people who have never ridden a bike since they were at primary school. The don't have to have a clue because cyclists are a minimal fraction of the market and so don't need to bother putting much effort into accomodating them.
Aside from the recline and headrests, these seats appear to be identical to the ones fitted to Siemens Desiro regional trains in Germany. In 2nd class no less. In that role they're perfectly adequate, but I'm not sure who thought that these would work as first class seats on a long distance train. As for the 2nd class seats on the 800s, let's just say I've been on more comfortable city bus seats.
The bum-numbing brilliantly named "ironing board" seats are , es tut mir leid, lacking in comfort because they are the product of the EU transportation fire resistance regs and as such, have as little padding as poss. Making a trip to Paddington a pain in the Posterior. I thank you...
@@JP_TaVeryMuch Somehow that doesn't prevent our operators from fitting at least somewhat comfortable seating. Like I said, what GWR put in their IETs in first class is the current second class regional train offering in Germany. Seats on actual long distance trains are far more comfortable.
@@JP_TaVeryMuch that's not entirely correct. The requirements of EN45545-2 do not prohibit the level of comfort in any way and there are now multitudes of suppliers who are able to provide seats which meet this standard. The only reason for these seats is cost saving.
Such a comfort downgrade from HSTs. They were smooth, silent and had seats designed to be sat in for journeys of this length. I used to enjoy riding those along most of this route when I went to uni in Plymouth.
The HSTs were a massive downgrade from the locomotive hauled coaches that preceded them. They were spacious, and had large, opening, untinted windows. The seats were sprung and well designed. They had dining cars, licenced buffet cars and trolley service. The worst thing about the HST was the crowded, stuffy feeling, coupled with the frequent stench when they were braking at high speed.
Are you referring to the seats the HSTs had towards the end of their service? My feeling is that they blocked the view out of the windows, for me the most important factor on such a scenic and historically interesting route. I far preferred the original HST seats which were lower and gave me a panoramic view outside.
@@Mgameing123 The original GWR were the last I seem to remember reading to make things comfortable for passengers and crew, looks like they are indeed regressing.
8:50 - I. K. Brunel originally intended to have two tracks crossing the bridge. But the Board of Directors turned it down and persuaded him to only have one. Even today, it's a bottleneck!
He also intended putting the section of the line between Teignmouth and Starcross in the sea on a bridge like structure. The video missed out the only remaining part of Brunel's atmospheric railway adjacent to the current Starcross station.
It became a real bottleneck as from 1973 when the single line was made twice as long on the English side [to save costs of another structure]. Up until then the single line was confined to the RAB itself.
@@francishuddy9462 My point is that as built the 15mph limit over the RAB was effectively a 4min block by each train over the single line. Since it was extended eastwards to St. Budeaux it's more like 7min (allowing for higher permitted speed over that bit), which in today's half-hourly timetable can worsen delay to late running as well as on-time trains.
I’m so glad I saw this. I have written to GWR twice telling them how uncomfortable these trains are, they replied “the rest of our customers like the trains” or something along those lines. I agree with the 3 remarks, seats, lights and refreshments. What the hell are they doing?
I took one of these from Newport S. Wales to Paddington in standard and thought it was great. But I’m an American so my standards are very low and I’m young so the seats didn’t bother me. There was also a very friendly golden retriever seated next to me so it was always going to be a great trip.
I'm surprised an American knew what a train was. I had the dismissal experience of Amtrak. Why the feck you have to check in for a train and have your bags weighed as a mandatory seat reservation for an empty train from Providence to New York is beyond me.
@@nixcails I think the bag weighing thing is because labor laws say that transportation workers shouldn’t have to pick up bags that weigh more than 50 pounds. Because remember that almost no Amtrak trains have level boarding so all those baggage car bags have to be lifted up a couple feet
Your not wrong, I live in the UK and took this train from Bristol last week, nothing wrong with it, this guy just wants views by saying that everything is “the worst”
@@NoOrganHarvesters To be fair, he did highlight all the features of this train that make it worse in comparison to other high-speed trains in the UK. It's not totally misleading.
It’s a shame these train sets are so poorly designed because I do quite like their livery! I’ve never travelled with GWR, but their livery is something I do enjoy.
I do agree with you, the shiny emerald green livery of GWR is one of my all time favourites probably. In general, UK trains tend to have always interesting, clean and varied liveries which is a nice touch (for comparison, all passenger trains in my country are plain white and half of them have a layer of graffiti on top anyways). This being said, I've traveled in this train once from London to Bristol and it is true that the interior was remarkably uncomfortable. I tried to take a short nap during the journey, something I often do on trains, and found myself incapable due to the painful seat design and bad stability of the train.
@updistant705 GWR’s rich emerald green is classy in an exclusive way (sadly not matched by the experience any more). It’s goes beautifully with their 1930s style posters.
I have been on this journey many times and mostly it's bearable but it can be horrendous. They frequently don't have sandwiches so you have to pay for the same sandwich from Standard Class, which is madness when it's already included in the cost of the ticket. The seats are like ironing boards and only slightly better than the ones in Standard. The old leather seats were fantastic. The train is really bumpy particularly between Reading and Paddington, the train driver even warned us about this and I nearly bit my tongue off when it hit a major bump. My worst experience was being delayed by two hours, being thrown off halfway and told to get on a slow train, I got into Paddington and tried to use the First Class lounge as I was desperate for the loo by this point and I wasn't allowed to because the GWR woman didn't believe I had only just got off the train. I then tried to claim back my ticket but I wasn't allowed a refund because they said I could have got on a faster train behind my original one - but the train manager said it was full and to get on the slow train and not attempt the fast one. I ended up having to write a complaint to get my money back. I've not traveled in GWR because of covid and I am not looking forward to going back on there. Take your own food is my advice!
When you look at how far things have advanced over the last 40 years in terms of technology, engineering and materials, it's astounding they came up with something so poor as a replacement for the HST and is meant to be in service for decades to come.
Here in Canada, that shameful first class offering would be second class on Via Rail network ! Ok, our trains are frequently delayed but, at least, you’ve got a very decent seat in 2th. You deserve better.
The high floors are a problem caused by the bi-mode multiple unit design of the trains, the carriages with engines in have higher floors than the ones without. The all-electric versions have lower floors. The old trains with an engine at each end, away from the passengers, were far quieter as well as being much more comfortable! I'm also a big fan of the Intercity 225s, with one loco and a driving trailer, which are now sadly all but retired from the ECML. With the awful seats and the rubbish ride, it's sometimes enough to tip the balance to driving for me these days
GWR used to have a full restaurant service on the HSTs even before they were upgraded in the 2010s. I had a delicious full English breakfast on board while enjoying the Dawlish scenery back in 2009. On another occasion leaving Paddington, a cup of tea (in a proper cup with a saucer), snacks and a copy of The Times had been brought to all first class seats before the train had departed. The only regular UK train service that served better meals at the time was the now defunct Wrexham & Shropshire.
I remember that. The only time I believe I ever travelled on a Valenta HST with my aunt, she bought me breakfast on the train (Something with sausages, I wish I could remember what). I went on a Class 802 two years ago and had to buy my lunch at the WHSmith at Exeter St. Davids because of the lack of even a trolley service.
I went first class Plymouth to Truro to meet my ex and went first class because it was cheaper than normal class, they SERVED STANDARD FIRST and First last, I dint even get a coffee till one stop before Truro, I am deeply ashamed they serve standard first when we have paid more for a first class ticket
I remember GWR used to do free wine Fridays in first class, then it moved to the lounge at Paddington rather than on the train. Suspect it’s just biscuits and coffee now!
So far as most consumers are concerned the full price when you need the service is what they are going to have to pay. If its possibe to sell the tickets at £30-odd quid then £200+ is just profiteering.
Unbelievably expensive!! I'm a Brit living in a big city in France and a train from my city to Paris covers the 400 kilometres in 2 hours and costs around 60 ( 51£ )or 70 ( 61£) euros first class and is v comfortable in first. I am now dreading travelling on the line on the video, obliged to take second because old and not rich.. I dread to think what my daughter ( French) who travels a lot on French railways, will think of the train on this video...I will feel ashamed and she will get a bad impression of Britain.
@@daydays12 if you're living in France the secret is to just buy an Interrail pass and avoid buying train tickets in the UK. Depending on how much train travel you're planning to do it can bring the daily cost down to about £30, you can do unlimited travel on the days of validity while also using it to travel between France and the UK at lower cost.
The best seats for comfort on the Western Region were the HST Class 43 which use to run on the line prior to these latest Class 800 series trains, The seats on the IET are solid and like sitting on a rock, first and second class are virtually the same with the exception of a padded headrest in the first class section, I have also travelled on the LNER Azuma trains which are virtually the same seating but there is a major difference in 1st Class on the LNER services with excellent dining on long distance trains compared to GWR 800 1st class services with the odd cup of Tea & a pack of Biscuits. All GWR 800 1st Class carriage's should go back to be refurbished with a more decent comfortable quality interior if they want to gain more 1st class passengers.
Crosscountry have better seats in first class but catering is not up to much. If you can try 1st class on a cross country hst, awesome! Seating in hst and voyager standard is slightly better than IET. Seated accommodation on the night riviera is actually better than the IET if you are taking on a local trip from Plymouth to Taunton.
You’re right. The old seats on the upgraded old trains were so much more comfortable. As you say, like leather armchairs. On a long journey like that you’d expect the possibility of a dining car which you could book a sitting with on a first class ticket. You could do this on LNER, in the day, but not sure if it still exists(?). They used to have a package; parking and first class with dining.
Omg, I used to travel this route all the time during the 1990s. The trains were really comfortable back then. I can't believe what rubbish they're running on this line now. I'd have hated travelling from Plymouth to London, and vice versa, in these standard class carriages.
At last. A review that agrees with what I’ve been saying all along. GWR have a terrible offering for an intercity train. The worst seats by far. And for 1st class a terrible let down after a decent seat in the old HST.
As someone who buys a First Class annual season west of Cardiff, I can tell you these are a welcome escape from the awful TfW. They're not how it used to be, but they're still massively better than the competition.
I use the 1st Deutsche Bahn service between Munich and Berlin every now and again, just over 4hrs for 370 miles. The 1st class experience is a world apart from what I'm seeing here. Am used to table service, a comfortable seat and a beer in a glass!
I've used the similar bike racks on lner and found it fine as long as your bike is light enough to lift - although they don't have the flip down luggage racks, which I can imagine interfere significantly...
I used to travel 1st from Penzance to Exeter all the time. GWR had some of the comfiest seats I’ve been on and such a smooth ride. I stopped when they switched to these. I believe they still run the old sets but not as often by all accounts and can’t guarantee what you’ll be going on. The meal offerings weren’t the best but always got given a doggy bag of sandwiches, crisps, small pot of pudding and a coffee to take away.
I have to agree that the ride quality and the seats on the IETs are pretty grotty. The old HSTs were streets ahead in every way. Always looked forward to a journey on the HSTs travelling from South Wales to London, bit with the IETs I'm pretty worn out by the end and suffer a numb bum no matter which class I dare to travel. Deary me, what a let down!
I travel on the 800s most days between Paddington and Reading to/from work and I’ve travelled on them dozens and dozens of times for intercity journeys too, and to be fair, compared to some of their alternatives, they’re not that bad. I’d much rather travel on an IET home from work than a 345, and I for longer journeys I think they offer a far better experience than a CrossCountry Voyager (even despite the difference in seat comfort)
Agreed. I think they're an upgrade on HST. Electric so not filling PAD with fumes. Faster acceleration. Great reservation signage. Great toilets. You dont have to open the doors yourself! I think ppl are getting irrational nostalgia about HST!
As someone who has travelled in every class, on every varient of the 80x series units, I rate them as follows, with the major points listed, good & bad. 1st Lumo - Best seats, but cramped. 2nd LNER - Best catering, best attempt with luggage. 3rd Hull Trains - Great staff, but NO Std class catering. 4th TransPennineExpress - Would have been joint 3rd, if they could be guaranteed to turn up! 5th GWR - Seats seem to be hardest of all operators, poor catering. (Not tried the Pullman) Apart from LUMO, they all have issues with seats & all have luggage space issues, which LNER have removed seats to try & help out with.
I once was in GWR 1st class from Bristol TM to Reading and once never received anything or any announcements, complained and they said they didn't have to come round!
I travelled this route quite regularly and it honestly isn't that bad. The carriage was clean and I didn't find the seats that bad. I have been on much worse trains in the Netherlands
Try those seats if you're over 1.83m... trust, they are torture instruments. Mainly because the bend in the back piece that's supposed to provide head support actually sits in the middle of your shoulders. Which after 30 mins or so is crippling. Horrible, awful, terrible design that could have been easily avoided.
@@Haawser I am over 1.9m and all seats on public transport do that for me. The head rests come up to your shoulders and I have never used an arm rest to rest my arm on. Also it is a train you can stand up and pace around for a bit when the seats get too much which you can't in many other forms of transport. I remember there being decent leg room which is what I usually struggle with.
@@ivaniii9707 That's the thing though, the trains they replaced had much better seats. Ones that fit just about anybody. But no, they picked a seat design that's actually a huge step backwards if you're tall. I mean, how hard is it to get a range of people from, say, 1.5 to 2m and test the seats ? Because if they had I'm quite certain that the taller ones would have said 'Woah ! No way !'. Or maybe they did ? And just decided to ignore them. Either way, it should never have happened.
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It would be great to see your review on the Pullman dining service. I tried in April and honestly for me it's a once in a lifetime experience: the first impression is great but when you remember what you paid it's just "meh". It'd be a lot more fair if they offered complimentary LNER-style catering on all long distance services from/to Paddington instead of asking an absurd extra fee for a "special" catering in a couple of services only on weekdays.
I experienced that trip from London to Penzance. A wonderful journey 30 years ago. Interesting to see the latest today's report. Thanks for the video. Incredible report. Since then i moved to MerthyrTydfil from Kent and enjoy every minute. Train fares are very high. Merthyr to Paddington was quoted £160 each . I walked out.
Dont blame the rollling stock. Blame the useless government that we have had for at least 13+ years and please use your vote at the next electtion@@NoOrganHarvesters
@@updistant705 HST's are obsolete and well behind modern safety standards. They basically splinter apart in a collision, especially the drivers cab. They're just fibreglass shells on a rather small steel frame. Their record in derailing etc are pretty bad. They've been bested for years. They were great train sets when new and were for a long time, but they're past their prime now. Don't get me wrong, I love them, they're iconic, but they should be museum pieces now (and are). They served with distinction!
We went in 1st class from Oxford to Birmingham International a couple of years ago, & the first thing we noticed was that there was no telling where 1st class seating would be when the train arrived at Oxford. The train consists of two sets of coaches, & there's no way of passing between the two units whilst the train is in motion, so if you jump onto the 'wrong' end, you must wait until the next stop, then race along the platform with your luggage until you can get on again in the right part. We were only on board for an hour, or so, but we could feel that a much longer journey would tax most backsides. The staff were friendly enough, but the catering was pretty basic when one considers the price per ticket.
That route is CrossCountry's operation, using 20yo trains called Voyagers (aka Vomiters) which are also dreadful albeit for different reasons.... With frequencies returning to 'normal' there are now much fewer of those services formed of two units.
Shame about what GWR and other rail companies have done with the Hitachis. I used to commute on these Hitachi trains in Japan. Great ride, comfy seats, plush floorboards, nice lighting etc etc. I could go on - the lowest common denominator for our British trains unfortunately despite the high cost of tickets….makes one wonder where all the margin goes….
I now drive back home to Penzanze instead of using the train from Moreton-in-Marsh. The reason the train seats are awful if your over 5"8 and are very uncomfortable. Their is no buffet car anymore just a overpriced trolley which is often sold out. Always take your own food and drink then the lightning obviously used by the stasi for interrogation purposes. Its also like driving a tractor for a ride. I have complained three times no response. I was a railway man of 30 years service and get travel so it costs but a anything is better than these.
I'm a regular commuter in London, but first time I travelled on an LNER from King's Cross to Durham & oh my word, I had a numb bum & a sore back. I was shocked on how uncomfortable the seating & lighting was. LNWR first-class seats looked better & that's for a commuter train. That's the issue, it's not built for long-distance whether it be the interior or food on offer. Abysmal.
Bring back hst I say. I stopped travelling with lner as soon as they bought in hitachi classes. Can’t bring myself to travel on those trains when I’ve heard so many bad reviews on them. They look uncomfortable by far😖my back couldn’t handle those seats that’s with me only travelling from Donny to Peterborough on the regular before covid
For a so-called 'developed' country, railways in the UK are laughable. Looking at your excellent video it's like a journey back in time. The last train I was on was the Limoges to Paris TGV... now that IS the future!
@@peterclarke7240If you think the UK is a capitalist country then you're too far gone mate. It would take hours and hours to list all the government enforced regulations that suppress true capitalism, the free market.
@@michaelstaley2241 When they were invented they were a marvel of engineering and something that Britain could be proud of, but nowadays the railways are just badly managed and too expensive.
I wasn't impressed with the long-distance French train I was on this week. Yes, a larger seat but very worn and uncomfortable. No food served on French trains in First Class either: a trolley passes through the train with mediocre but expensive snacks you can buy. Although I was against the privatisation of our railways, it has led to competition between operators in terms of what they offer customers. To be fair I don't think GWR is too bad but, if you want to see how First Class should be done well, try LNER.
I remember several years ago, myself and my then partner going down from Reading to Pewsey on one of the then-new GWR Adelanté's. THAT was an interesting journey! Severely overcrowded, but the seats were at least comfortable when we eventually got one.
It’s such a shame how they downgraded from the HST with their beautiful interior to these horrendous machines. Worth noting you also travelled on the ICE in Germany which have much better seat design, no stupid pole supporting the table, better catering options (yes…. It has much improved!) and ample ample luggage space.
The 800 is a massive steo down from the InterCity 125 in term of bicycle rack, those not only is terrible but incredibly inaccessible meaning only a select type of bicycle can fit and closed the door (road bicycles and some hybrid), it also mean e-bike cannot be fitted. It's fustrasting as the UK used to have excellent support when it come to taking your bicycles (the old Caledonian Sleeper enable this with a big seperate room in the end of the train), but as it is right now, people are forced to use their cars instead of the trains nowadays.
i travel these trains 3 times a year and sadly they are a massive let down. ive done both first class and standard class and there is very little different. The seats are horrendous and very uncomfortable when traveling long distances from London to Plymouth and vice verer. the rubbish they serve on the Dollie trolley service is shocking compared to what the buffet car use to sever also. the HST wins hands down for the best and more relaxed trips and travel in comfort which is something for the history books so it seems. for the last few years i have paid alittle more to travel over night on the Riviera while it takes longer the comfort and the buffet is all there. #bringbackthehst
Spent years regularly travelling from Paddington down to South Wales to visit my family on the comfortable, if usually overcrowded HSTs / IC125 trains. They switched to these god awful things and within 6 months I'd bought a car and travel by that instead. I've no words for the people who selected these trains. Just no words at all. I'm sure they got plenty of brown envelopes along the way though, so they won't care.
I used to work on GWR as a travelling Chef. All but the Seats make sense. 12:25 that's the building where all GWR are trained as I was 27 years ago. We used to give 1st class massive cheese burgers then.
Great review, and confirms what I experience (and many others comment below) as a weekly commuter between Plymouth and London on these awful machines. I have to travel in Working class rather than First, and it genuinely is as bad as you say. Perhaps worse, as your single trip wouldn't have highlighted the regular uncleanliness I experience, especially when leaving Paddington, when the cleaners often seem to have walked through the train and done nothing whatsoever; litter-pick at best. In fact I turned up very early once to find the train sat at the platform; I boarded to find the cleaners all sat down checking FaceTok or whatever, until finally leaving the train when the next one to not-clean pulled in. I walked up the carriage to observe the usual carnage of crumbs, crisps, newspapers and various nasties all over the place. It's also not unusual for toilets to run out of paper within half an hour or so, or indeed often start with none in at all. I carry my own, just in case. There's also often no soap or water. Perhaps the only aspect of your review I'd argue with is that early on you state the IETs are built in the North of England. They are not. They arrive on container ships from Japan in a form that looks to the casual observer like me to be almost complete. My suspicion is that all we do in the UK is screw in a the light bulbs and spray them. This masks the fact that yet another industry - train building - that the Britain pioneered is now largely off-shored. But we maintain the facade that we build them here; i dread to think what the "factory" at Newton Ayecliffe cost the tax payer. Sad when, as others state, the wonderful HSTs they replaced were British designed and built, are still in service over 40 years after introduction, and are now being exported as we replace them with these garbage cans that will last a fraction of the time*. Well done UK PLC! (*I'm told by a reliable source that they all still have major cracks - the ones which brought the network to a stand-still a couple of years ago - and they still haven't got a reliable fix). For balance, I have to say that as a regular commuter, the GWR on-train staff are, without exception, Great. Unfortunately that's the only aspect of GWR that is. Oh almost forgot, the refreshments trolley often doesn't make it down the train as the isle is so narrow, as soon as a few people get on board it's "not safe". And if you're lucky enough that it does reach you, half the time there are no hot drinks as the heater doesn't work. Whoever in the rail industry signed off on these as a viable replacement for HSTs should perhaps travel by train one day, assuming they haven't already. And then they should never work again in any role where they are able to make decisions!
The Pendolinos are crap as well. I don't think there has been a single decent bit of rolling stock put on the railways since BR Engineering was closed.
You did get a bargain on the price! I travel on this line very frequently and I miss the buffet car and the comfortable first class seats I used to get when there was an offer on. There was a period of time when a first class ticket was only a couple of quid more than standard. Those were the days! The other main issue I have is the luggage space is completely unsuitable for a long distance train.
A very good and comprehensive review of these awful trains. I also took advantage of a cheap first class upgrade not long after these trains made an appearance on the GW mainline. Like you say the first class offering is pretty poor, standard class is awful. Hopefully when these trains get a refurb GWR might take some inspiration from the old hst’s.
It's the lack of connectivity investment through Wiltshire, Somerset, Devon and Kernow. I live by the so called Saltash transport hub (buses on Fore Street, ticket machine, ticket office and permit to travel machineless station and the Beryl bikes to cycle over the bridge) both GWR, Go Ahead and Beryl want you to purchase via app. There is virtually no ordinary GSM signal never mind 3,4 or 5G most journeys from Saltash to barrier free stations remain unpaid journeys and penalty fares cannot be implemented as ticket options don't exist. At the start of the Football season the Gateline at Plymouth just opened the gates as the police (kreslu) were worried about crowd control. Nobody paid
@@andrewstorm8240 that's because the whole of England has poor GSM mobile coverage that feeds the onboard wifi. Having a phone conversation on a moving train without the line dropping every 5 minutes is impossible in this country.
I travelled on GWR in June of this year and found that the First Class seats were very uncomfortable. I also travelled in First Class on LNER and I found these seats were more comfortable than their GWR counterpart.
I have been once on them travelling from London to Cardiff, when they run high speed at certain parts of the trip one might think they fly off the tracks ....,it is indeed an unpleasant experience
I made that journey every Friday morning for 10 years. I tried ‘Cattle Class’ the first week and made the upgrade to first class from the second week onwards ! I returned home on Sunday nights on the Night Riviera sleeper. Naturally I got to know the crews and always had VIP treatment - especially after I joined the RMT trade union and wore the lapel badge while travelling ! I was eventually even given a clue by some of the crew as to how to only pay for one ticket a month - shhhhh!
These trains are definitely less comfortable than the HSTs they replaced. But once you have done a few journeys on Sprinter class trains, e.g. 158s, these IETs suddenly seem luxurious. Not the most comfortable of seats but you do at least get treated to something called leg room. £33 for your journey in first class is the deal of the century!
I did not know so many shared my view that the seating was so hard and uncomfortable (aside from the inevitable few). I so miss the HST 125 MK3 carriages, (designed in the 1970's) they were quieter, more refined and had more relaxing lighting/interior too. Happy days for all those who enjoy sitting on a padded bar stool for 3 hours+ while being gently shaken!
For all those feeling a little nostalgic...The Intercity Relax Advert from 1990. th-cam.com/video/6DNWSBsDgsM/w-d-xo.html Watch out for the chess pieces, dead still...and beginning to fall asleep, such is the legendary smooth ride of the MK 3's!
That stretch of line through Dawlish is probably my favourite bit of track in the whole of the UK. It's been many years since I last travelled along it but I remember it fondly 😎.
You didn't mention the horrible noise from the motors whether they be on electric or diesel. My preference for a trip to London is one of these to Exeter and then a nice comfy - but slower - ride to Waterloo.
@@12crepello the 158 interior sound is significantly lower than the IET interior sound whenther its runing diesel or electric. they produce an utterly dreadful bassy sound at speed, no idea what it is but its about 10 decibels higher than the mark 3s at the same speed
It's not just that the standard class seats are thin and uncomfortable, they're also worn out already, with the metal bar poking through, so not even fit for purpose, having already had their seat covers replaced.
Great video, lovely scenery, thank you! I've travelled on that train from Paddington to Newport, S. Wales and back. I agree with you. The seats are very uncomfortable and the ride is horrible.
hi, i told you some time ago these trains were like riding in a skip.we never asked for them,should have kept the HSTs as in original condition, i travelled to Plymouth in 1982, with great service from the trolley girls, how times have changed for the worse, but now in 2023 its about profit and filling seats no matter what,thats First Group for you,
I took one of these trains from Exeter to Paddington last year in standard class. Yes it was a bumpy ride seats were hard fare was throw the roof but the train was spotlessly clean and the staff were nice they even gave me a free cup of tea.
I did try First Class on a HST once between London Paddington and Paignton and it was one of the best journeys I've ever done, This was years ago and even had snow on the Dawlish sea wall which was beautiful, only tried a GWR IET first class once but this was on a Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads service which first class is declassified on this route. It was okay for a short distance between Cam & Dursley ad Yate but wouldn't mind giving it a go on a long distance service.
good scenery along the coast......and great that you did not have any tongue twisting city names you usually run into on the Continent ...well handed with aplomb .....thanks 🚂🚂
Travelled first class and the only benefit i found was the quietness, i still travel first class for that reason only. I travel alone and just like the reassurance of peaceful travel not having to worry about who i sit next to. Your spot on with everything you say. The trains seem short of staff and need a kick up the backside . Thanks for your video ☺️
I used to go 1st class for my 12 minute commute (Chippenham to Bath) it was only worth it because it cost £3.50 a day more than standard. The downgrade from the old Class 43 HST was mind boggling, it's the epitome of boiler plate, H&S gone mad
Have to say that I have never travelled GWR, but have travelled Avanti West Coast line return trips between Birmingham and London recently, twice over the last couple of months and 1st class on my senior's railcard, the last journey being on 29th Aug. The layout was similar as in the video as most will be. I was impressed; seats felt very comfortable to me and everywhere was clean. The carriage was noticeably very quiet, soundproofed and movement very sedate (say in comparison to the Virgin, bucket seat, 'pendulum' trains of some years ago). Bearing in mind this was a 1.5 hour, straight through train until 1st stop at Birmingham International (Airport) so you might just expect to be offered a sandwich perhaps! Not long after moving off from Euston at the stated time of 10.40am, staff came and placed menu's on the tables and asked what drinks we might like; there was a four breakfast choice menu (toast/preserves, porridge wth honey/preserves, a cooked hash browns and other things meal and last but least, the great British full breakfast; so two lighter breakfasts and two larger ones whichever was to your taste and for e.g. had you say also wanted the toast with your full British, you could have had that aswell. I had the toast and porridge options; the porridge came in a 'large' size bowl (no small helping) and was very nice, creamy, very tasty indeed. The toast came in four half slices of the most delicious granary bread with your choice of preserves to; again had I wanted more it would have been a simple thing to ask...that was the impression I was given. In 1.5 hours there is only so much you can do but I would give a 5/5 feedback for Avanti and its staff efficiency, food quality, comfort etc based on my last two return trip experiences with them and will travel with them again.
The seats on the old train looked very comfy! Yes, the same problem everywhere. The Thameslink trains must have the absolute hardest seats since 3rd class was abolished (and their wooden seats). The new Eurostar (already looking quite poor with stained carpets and no maintenance) is also much harder than the old one. I think the main reasons are weight saving. That's why there are now garden chairs on aeroplanes (thinking about British Airways here)
The lack of padding on seats is a "safety feature". It has nothing to do with weight saving, it is negligible. It is about the amount of dense black toxic smoke produced should your train/plane crash & catch fire. Fire retardant materials do exist - but they are expensive.
@@iank-dz6gg "Safety Features"? Should your train crash and catch fire, there are no seat belts such as on the plane (which you are requested to use whilst landing or during take-off). So I guess it's all probabilities. Are you likely to be crushed to death by being thrown into the table or seat and passenger infront of you, when your train derails at 125 mph, or by inhaling toxic smoke during said crash or by fire, or by all three? I suppose that when I get on a high speed train I feel safe in the knowledge that cleverer people than me have "done the statistics and the maths". It does make me think though.
I travelled standard from Paddington to Oxford and needed to wash my hands, not a single one of the taps worked. Eventually I had to ask the guard to open up the mirror and manually hold the water on.
A sad replacement for their previous trains which really felt luxurious, even in second class, and had such features as video screens. These trains look and feel like poor commuter stock. Excellent video!
It seems from other comments that that's actually what they are- low-end short-hop commuter trains, dumped on us Brits as intercities by lousy train companies.
I do a day trip to Penzance, roughly once a year.. the HST's were far more comfortable and even in the year before they finished, you could get a bacon mini baguette at the buffet car and it was worth the £4 (plenty of bacon inside). The first IET I did was awful .. nothing more than tea/coffee, hot chocolate or porridge for breakfast and little else on the afternoon train back, Which is crazy if you are sat on a train for 5 1/2 hours each way. As for the seats.... By comparison, I have done Virgin/Avanti and LNER, both a decent cooked breakfast and a good evening meal with a good selection of drinks (And plenty of dessert on the later trains back!). GWR need to try these trains/food offerings. The 800 series trains need to refurbished with better seats/ambiance etc. Sadly Avanti seem to be taking the new 800's as well, hopefully they have better seats in their version!
You clearly haven’t watched the GWR cab view from Plymouth to Paddington that is available on here, that was taken on the last Plymouth - Paddington HST…
These trains are very similar to the Javelin High Speed which run up & down HS1 at 140mph all day. As well as the LNER Azuma trains and the Lumo trains. Wonder why the seats and ride are regarded as uncomfortable?
because they are uncomfortable, dont compare these to the javlins, they were built to proper specs, a world of difference between that and the cheap as possible DFT specs for the IETs
Thanks for this review. I have traveled both first and standard class on these horrendous trains on this route and have to say I found the extra cost for first a con given the abysmal seating and the indifferent 'complimentary' trolley service. Standard class seats are torture and the trains' rough ride can be quite disturbing. They look, feel and behave as if 'cheap and nasty.' The lack of a proper restaurant or buffet service is dreadful. They need urgent refurbishment and overhaul.
Informative review. GWR could solve the catering issue by having the equivalent of airline catering at either end of the line and warm the meals up en route as required. That's a cheaper solution than installing a kitchen and dining car. Where do I claim my consultancy fee? ;-)
I also travelled with both (GWR and LNER) as I visited Great Britain this Spring. In my opinion the seats were quite comfortable, even for long distances. Judging by the pictures of the former Trains, they´re probably a downgrade though. In comparison to the trains run by CrossCountry these trains are still very much more comfortable and have less travel noises.
Worst thing is that some of the uncomfortable seats do not have window, even in first class.... many of the airline style in standard have little or no window too. Didn't have that back in the good old days of the HST type trains. IET are just awful, I especially miss buffet car and as regular traveller from Cornwall to London sometime don't get access to the trolley service til way past Taunton... oh and also don''t like card only option for payment... a) everywhere should accept cash and b) during parts of journey the staff struggle with getting signal to go through for card payments!
"high-speed train" : 5 hr 14 min, 304 mi (489 km).. 93 kph??😳 a "high-speed" train??😂😂 Try a "real" High Speed Train: TGV Paris-Bordeaux (575 km) : 6 November 2023, departure Paris 9:04am - arrival Bordeaux 11:14am, travel time 2hr10 min. Cost 45 euros.
Cornish Mainline (Penzance - Plymouth) is basically zigzag after zigzag, it cannot have a speed limit more than 75 mph most likely because of that. South Devon Mainline has 100 mph speed limit, Taunton - Reading line has 110 mph speed limit, and the stretch from Reading to London has 125 mph. Great Western Mainline is Paddington - Bristol (goes via Reading) has 125 mph limit. The same type of trains as in the video is also used on the East Coast Mainline (London King's Cross - Edinburgh Waverley), it mostly has 125 mph limit with some slower sections. So yeah, this train is considered high speed, but the tracks that it goes on in this video... Not really
I'm absolutely convinced that whoever designed the seats for these new trains have never travelled by train.
You are right about the seats, someone sat in one for a seconds and pronounced them excellent and would never use them personally. Mk3 and Mk 4 coaches were so much more comfortable. A refurbishment is urgently needed.
The spec for the seats was by the department for transport. So therefore cheaply. Blame them.
It's the lack of attention to detail that I find most noticeable. Getting little details 'right' really matters - it's not being pernickety or anal..... especially if you've paid a huge amount. You deserve better than this.
And the train operators need to spend more time on the design process, when it comes to the overall interior - from ergonomics, and practicality, to the actual look (little design touches).....not to mention how comfortable the seats are, or should be. And they need to be comfortable if you're going to be sat in one for five hours. How can they not get this right??!
Very good review btw. I have subscribed!
You notice how wrong we've got things when it comes to travelling by train, when you visit other European countries....and use the first class on trains in France, Spain, Germany etc.
@@robtyman4281 Not to mention we have a govt that cares very little about the railway.
@@22pcirish Is that why they're wasting billions of taxpayer's money on HS2....??!!🤔😂
I worked for Hitachi (EU) as an interior developer and advised that the seats were of a commuter standard and the lighting was like being at the dentists . Early morning travellers need to catch up on their sleep . A team member also commented on the welding of the lifting points . We were both dismissed after a year with them .
Talk about being fired because you weren't a "Yes Man".
Ditachi
@@Nelsonwmj probelm when the people higher up than you have a superiority complex.
@@ZauchiProbelms probelms !
The dreadful seating has no lumbar support. Just compare the seating to the old 125. GWR have ruined this service.
You could electrify the line completely and power the trains, just with the power generated by Brunel spininng in his grave.
Underrated comment!
Bro you had me dying 💀
😂
Electrify between Newton Abbott and Plymouth first . Which was what Brunel did after all, just without electricity .
Ha ha brilliant comment
So basically, First Class is what Standard Class should be like. Comfort seems to have halved in the modern trains and yet prices seem to be double. You could actually say that about most things though
It's as if privatising them is a con job
Pretty much the same across the country. Calling the service "First Class" should be regarded as fraudulent. Yes it's better than standard. Just. But not by much. Certainly not worth the extra cost. Most countries would see British "first class" as being substandard class.
Standard class used to be great back in the 90s on this route. These carriages are awful!
Skimpflation as it's been called these days.
Couldn’t have said it better first class is literally a coach seat 💀
I know of a couple of drivers that work these trains. When they were being trained on them, some Hitachi techs came over from Japan and they expressed their suprise that the UK were using these on long distance, intercity services! They are a short hop commuter unit and nothing more.
So sad when we remember what went before them!
Well the train is InterCity but the seats are commuter!
The Hitachi techs have good reason to be surprised. These trains are based on Hitachi's A-train family, which is designed for commuter and "limited express" services, the latter being a Japanese term for *local/regional* express trains, so short/medium distances and lower speeds. Then when Hitachi started exporting them, they went on to also market them for intercity and long-distance trains. But the UK's experience with them goes to show that they were not originally designed for that. They'll stay in one piece - at least so far, but the ride quality, seat comfort, and to some extent the interior design, are rather more what you'd expect on local/regional trains. It's perfectly adequate there, but it's unbecoming a long-distance train.
It's a trend we're seeing more and more these days. Train operating companies that need new long-distance trains in the low end of the high-speed spectrum (around 200km/h) end up cheaping out on upgraded regional trains. I'm guessing the train manufacturers can apparently make it all work out on paper, upgrading the regional train design a bit to stretch the original 160km/h top speed to 200km/h so they can just about meet the buyer's specifications (which I then wonder if those are adequate to begin with), and that compared with the manufacturer being then able to offer lower prices - because it's still a regional train - makes these upgraded regional trains outprice the proper high-speed trains, even those designed for around 200km/h. And here we are. I should again mention that that theory is conjecture on my part, but it seems very likely to me.
It's a race to the bottom on price with the buyer not looking closely enough at whether what they are getting for the lowest price is actually fit for purpose. These trains are not.
@@marionbloom1218 The buyer (DfT) could not care a flying fig what they were getting so long as the cost was low.
By japanese standards most of the journeys are probably "short hop". London to bristol for example isn't even 200km.
These trains are already too big to be easily used for a lot of UK stations, as well.
A GWR employee told me that the reason why the seats are so hard is because fitting more comfortable ones would have cost an extra £100 per seat. If you have a bad back and sore backside, it's because of money saving.
It's more to do with the over the top fire safety standards that are imposed on trains in the UK these days
Padding and comfort of any kind is somehow believed to mean the train can imminently catch fire at any time 🙄
@@wv7417that’s just what the cheapskate TOC’s and DfT want us to believe so they can justify penny pinching at the expense of our comfort
@@wv7417why defend profiting？
And ofc they're not willing to pay for the extra comfort... I'm glad to live on the other side of the chunnnel
@@Flagwaver49 Eu bad, Engrand good. Simple as.
The train itself is very advanced technology. If GWR was to upgrade the seating in both First and standard class and offer proper food on board and make the ride more comfortable. This would be a great service.
😂 So basically, scrap the whole thing and start from scratch!
@@drziggyabdelmalak1439sounds like a brilliant idea 😂
How can the train be advanced if it causes the paying customers discomfort and hunger pains
Bring back BRITISH RAIL
@@drziggyabdelmalak1439no need, just take out the seats and replace them. No need to scrap the trains
The speed you go as you travel closer to London shows how well levelling up is going :D
DOWNHILL into London ? Stops everywhere in Cornwall BUT as usual IGNORES Maidenhead.
@@trevorhart545 Maidenhead has a much better train service than any place in Cornwall. 😂
I can suggest you a channel. this channel get you a luxurious train travel experience. The name of the channel is @spiritoftravelbespoke.
I don’t hate the class 800, I just think they are average. The problem is they’re being used on flagship routes and are starting to absolutely dominate the UK intercity market. After all this time, the Pendolinos on the West Coast Main Line are still the best long distance trains in the UK.
Pendolinos are claustrophobic, cramped and have terrible window spacing. If they're the best then it shows how much standards have declined.
Yep. And the titling makes me feel sick- I have to stand in the corridor ends. I've actually seen an unfortunate passenger throwing up because of the motion. The only way round it is to stand up and concentrate on looking out of the window- I helped her to do this and she stopped throwing up. You have to choose a carriage end without a loo, as the loos stink. @@updistant705
@luelou8464 They’re nice trains, but I’d put them in the category of commuter train rather than intercity simply because their top speed is 100mph rather than 125mph like the IETs and Pendolinos.
@luelou8464 I agree intercity may not be the best word to describe what I mean. I am referring to the 125mph high speed trains that typically operate on the major UK main lines.
I personally hate the pendelinos - they feel so claustrophobic and have massively insufficient luggage space considering the route, which only make them more cramped. personally the transpennine novas and the LNER azumas are my favourites I have tried, and some are literally the same train as this GWR Hitachi. Crazy how much of a difference better interiors can make!
I am old enough to remember when train seating was of the sprung variety, with plenty of padding on top. Very, very comfortable to sit on for hours on end. Admittedly back then BR did very little to keep them clean - often being full of dust, but I still cannot forget just how comfortable train seating used to be. It would seem that back then the designers really cared about the passengers being comfortable. That these days seem to be a low priority for most railway companies. I used to love travelling by rail, I hate it now, unless it's a special chartered train, or a preserved railway. I remember back in the 70's when the class 43 HST's came into service, the showed how to be modern, but still retain comfort for the passengers. The MK3 coaches were a joy to travel in. Back then I would find an excuse to travel by train, now I find excuses not to.
I remember them to and used to love traveling in the carriage with my mum and brother, sliding doors, big long chairs that is children used to sleep on.
I used to plan my entire journey to do something every 5 minutes. Magical.
Now I travel first class to have quiet only. People used to be so polite.
I had to sit next to a lady who thought it was acceptable to fan her armpits in my face, a large lady who left me know room. Unbelievable, then there's the drunks, the loud talkers , I could go on. I'm 54 but will never forget those old trains❤
and yet upholstery technology is so much more advanced now. Memory foam is a consumer product rather than some experimental NASA material like it was back then.
The 125s in the 1980s were a dream to travel on in standard class, nowadays I'd rather drive than travel in first!
Couldn't agree more. Avoid at all costs.
You young TEENAGERS, 54 hardly grown up. It was even better in the 60's when even a DMU was comfortable, ON TIME and Clean. APT on offer costing a Research Budget of Ten Bob a Week, no wonder it failed@@traceyyelland2353
A very fair review of a beautiful route with very average trains. The Pullman Dining is a must, although it’s not cheap and I doubt it’s as good on an IET. I can’t agree with your description of the Night Riviera as a luxury sleeper train, it’s pretty much Premier Inn on wheels, but it is at least priced accordingly unlike Caledonian Sleeper.
thats because the night riviers is subsidised by the rest of GWR while the caledonion sleeper has to sustain itself
@@Trainman10715 Not really, it’s now run by the Scottish Government who give it a vast subsidy. It would make more sense back in the Scotrail franchise operationally, but with separate CS branding.
@@iskra1234 I'm not reffering to government subsidy, gwr are government subsidised too, as we're Caledonian under serco. Gwr can subsidise there sleeper as they almost run at a profit, Caledonian sleeper runs at a massive loss
You totally nailed it regarding the bicycle storage, clearly intended to deter cyclists from travelling by train ever again .
Exactly, there's capacity, but it's rubbish!
It is basivcally lip service, like the crap so-called cycle facilities found on the roads designed by people who have never ridden a bike since they were at primary school. The don't have to have a clue because cyclists are a minimal fraction of the market and so don't need to bother putting much effort into accomodating them.
BRUTAL HONESTY !@@adamlea6339
Aside from the recline and headrests, these seats appear to be identical to the ones fitted to Siemens Desiro regional trains in Germany. In 2nd class no less. In that role they're perfectly adequate, but I'm not sure who thought that these would work as first class seats on a long distance train.
As for the 2nd class seats on the 800s, let's just say I've been on more comfortable city bus seats.
The bum-numbing brilliantly named "ironing board" seats are , es tut mir leid, lacking in comfort because they are the product of the EU transportation fire resistance regs and as such, have as little padding as poss. Making a trip to Paddington a pain in the Posterior.
I thank you...
@@JP_TaVeryMuch
Somehow that doesn't prevent our operators from fitting at least somewhat comfortable seating. Like I said, what GWR put in their IETs in first class is the current second class regional train offering in Germany. Seats on actual long distance trains are far more comfortable.
@@JP_TaVeryMuch that's not entirely correct. The requirements of EN45545-2 do not prohibit the level of comfort in any way and there are now multitudes of suppliers who are able to provide seats which meet this standard. The only reason for these seats is cost saving.
@@userscott I bow to your superior knowledge, sir.
@@mikeblatzheim2797 Not GWR's fault DfT specified and bought the trains GWR had to take what they were given.
Such a comfort downgrade from HSTs. They were smooth, silent and had seats designed to be sat in for journeys of this length. I used to enjoy riding those along most of this route when I went to uni in Plymouth.
The HSTs were a massive downgrade from the locomotive hauled coaches that preceded them. They were spacious, and had large, opening, untinted windows. The seats were sprung and well designed. They had dining cars, licenced buffet cars and trolley service. The worst thing about the HST was the crowded, stuffy feeling, coupled with the frequent stench when they were braking at high speed.
@@gainsbourg66 With this trend continuing the next generation of high speed trains will just be longitudinal seating.
HST used to feel smoother in the 80s, but the ones that EMR ran a few years ago were anything but smooth.
Are you referring to the seats the HSTs had towards the end of their service? My feeling is that they blocked the view out of the windows, for me the most important factor on such a scenic and historically interesting route. I far preferred the original HST seats which were lower and gave me a panoramic view outside.
@@Mgameing123 The original GWR were the last I seem to remember reading to make things comfortable for passengers and crew, looks like they are indeed regressing.
8:50 - I. K. Brunel originally intended to have two tracks crossing the bridge. But the Board of Directors turned it down and persuaded him to only have one. Even today, it's a bottleneck!
He also intended putting the section of the line between Teignmouth and Starcross in the sea on a bridge like structure.
The video missed out the only remaining part of Brunel's atmospheric railway adjacent to the current Starcross station.
No mention of the piers from the original timber viaducts that can be seen in several places. @@markevans2294
It became a real bottleneck as from 1973 when the single line was made twice as long on the English side [to save costs of another structure]. Up until then the single line was confined to the RAB itself.
If it was a bottle-neck when it was built, why would it not remain so today?
@@francishuddy9462
My point is that as built the 15mph limit over the RAB was effectively a 4min block by each train over the single line. Since it was extended eastwards to St. Budeaux it's more like 7min (allowing for higher permitted speed over that bit), which in today's half-hourly timetable can worsen delay to late running as well as on-time trains.
I’m so glad I saw this. I have written to GWR twice telling them how uncomfortable these trains are, they replied “the rest of our customers like the trains” or something along those lines. I agree with the 3 remarks, seats, lights and refreshments. What the hell are they doing?
Lying, they all do it thee days.
putting more money in their pockets...they don't care about their customers
AS little as possible obviously!
I took one of these from Newport S. Wales to Paddington in standard and thought it was great. But I’m an American so my standards are very low and I’m young so the seats didn’t bother me. There was also a very friendly golden retriever seated next to me so it was always going to be a great trip.
I'm surprised an American knew what a train was. I had the dismissal experience of Amtrak.
Why the feck you have to check in for a train and have your bags weighed as a mandatory seat reservation for an empty train from Providence to New York is beyond me.
@@nixcails I think the bag weighing thing is because labor laws say that transportation workers shouldn’t have to pick up bags that weigh more than 50 pounds. Because remember that almost no Amtrak trains have level boarding so all those baggage car bags have to be lifted up a couple feet
Your not wrong, I live in the UK and took this train from Bristol last week, nothing wrong with it, this guy just wants views by saying that everything is “the worst”
@@NoOrganHarvesters To be fair, he did highlight all the features of this train that make it worse in comparison to other high-speed trains in the UK. It's not totally misleading.
@@EdwinWalkerProfile I agree, but if you look at his videos, most of them are titled something like "This is the WORST train in (insert country here)"
It’s a shame these train sets are so poorly designed because I do quite like their livery! I’ve never travelled with GWR, but their livery is something I do enjoy.
I find it a terribly dreary livery. Dark green just looks dull whether the sun is in or out.
That's a bit superficial. The last thing on your mind when travelling in a train is what it looks like on the outside.
I do agree with you, the shiny emerald green livery of GWR is one of my all time favourites probably. In general, UK trains tend to have always interesting, clean and varied liveries which is a nice touch (for comparison, all passenger trains in my country are plain white and half of them have a layer of graffiti on top anyways).
This being said, I've traveled in this train once from London to Bristol and it is true that the interior was remarkably uncomfortable. I tried to take a short nap during the journey, something I often do on trains, and found myself incapable due to the painful seat design and bad stability of the train.
th-cam.com/video/ev_f3jTUKiA/w-d-xo.html
@updistant705 GWR’s rich emerald green is classy in an exclusive way (sadly not matched by the experience any more). It’s goes beautifully with their 1930s style posters.
Penzance is a lovely well kept wee railway station, and a real credit to those charged with looking after it.
it is pity that Penzance station is stationary and doesn't take its passengers anywhere
I have been on this journey many times and mostly it's bearable but it can be horrendous. They frequently don't have sandwiches so you have to pay for the same sandwich from Standard Class, which is madness when it's already included in the cost of the ticket. The seats are like ironing boards and only slightly better than the ones in Standard. The old leather seats were fantastic. The train is really bumpy particularly between Reading and Paddington, the train driver even warned us about this and I nearly bit my tongue off when it hit a major bump. My worst experience was being delayed by two hours, being thrown off halfway and told to get on a slow train, I got into Paddington and tried to use the First Class lounge as I was desperate for the loo by this point and I wasn't allowed to because the GWR woman didn't believe I had only just got off the train. I then tried to claim back my ticket but I wasn't allowed a refund because they said I could have got on a faster train behind my original one - but the train manager said it was full and to get on the slow train and not attempt the fast one. I ended up having to write a complaint to get my money back. I've not traveled in GWR because of covid and I am not looking forward to going back on there. Take your own food is my advice!
When you look at how far things have advanced over the last 40 years in terms of technology, engineering and materials, it's astounding they came up with something so poor as a replacement for the HST and is meant to be in service for decades to come.
Britain used to set the standard. Now other countries look at Britain for how not to do it.
Guess what happened around 40 years ago?
Privatisation, only a profit over providing a great service motive can be responsible for this.
Welcome to (not so great) Britain. @@micsan381
@@micsan381 that's true for most things ...water companies for example!
@@JackMellor498 Absolutely
Here in Canada, that shameful first class offering would be second class on Via Rail network ! Ok, our trains are frequently delayed but, at least, you’ve got a very decent seat in 2th. You deserve better.
VIA even goes slightly faster than this train does too!
0:27 First class lounge? Looks like the reception in a Travelodge!
The high floors are a problem caused by the bi-mode multiple unit design of the trains, the carriages with engines in have higher floors than the ones without. The all-electric versions have lower floors.
The old trains with an engine at each end, away from the passengers, were far quieter as well as being much more comfortable! I'm also a big fan of the Intercity 225s, with one loco and a driving trailer, which are now sadly all but retired from the ECML. With the awful seats and the rubbish ride, it's sometimes enough to tip the balance to driving for me these days
GWR used to have a full restaurant service on the HSTs even before they were upgraded in the 2010s. I had a delicious full English breakfast on board while enjoying the Dawlish scenery back in 2009. On another occasion leaving Paddington, a cup of tea (in a proper cup with a saucer), snacks and a copy of The Times had been brought to all first class seats before the train had departed. The only regular UK train service that served better meals at the time was the now defunct Wrexham & Shropshire.
I remember that. The only time I believe I ever travelled on a Valenta HST with my aunt, she bought me breakfast on the train (Something with sausages, I wish I could remember what). I went on a Class 802 two years ago and had to buy my lunch at the WHSmith at Exeter St. Davids because of the lack of even a trolley service.
I went first class Plymouth to Truro to meet my ex and went first class because it was cheaper than normal class, they SERVED STANDARD FIRST and First last, I dint even get a coffee till one stop before Truro, I am deeply ashamed they serve standard first when we have paid more for a first class ticket
I remember GWR used to do free wine Fridays in first class, then it moved to the lounge at Paddington rather than on the train. Suspect it’s just biscuits and coffee now!
I remember when GWR used to do gastronomic journeys to the South-West, featuring guest chefs and local produce. They have lost so much...
Totally agree about the standard class seating. Unbelievably uncomfortable. Cannot understand how that got signed off....
DfT looked the tenders and took the lowest - DfT are beholding to Treasury who want to be rid of the railways.
If they transported cattle in equivalent conditions the animal rights mob would be all over it. But as it's fare paying people no one gives a damn.
If Treasury want to get rid of the railways then they are probably beholden to the oil companies.@@barrieshepherd7694
I am distressed by this
I really enjoyed this video. Honest and true. So now I’m gonna back watch everything on the channel you’ve gained a fan today brother!
15:20 walk up tickets for 1st class is normally anything from £130 - £213 so that’s quite a good deal
A good deal? He practically robbed them at that price.
@@Ass_Burgers_Syndrome No, he paid what many countries consider a normal price.....
So far as most consumers are concerned the full price when you need the service is what they are going to have to pay.
If its possibe to sell the tickets at £30-odd quid then £200+ is just profiteering.
Unbelievably expensive!! I'm a Brit living in a big city in France and a train from my city to Paris covers the 400 kilometres in 2 hours and costs around 60 ( 51£ )or 70 ( 61£) euros first class and is v comfortable in first. I am now dreading
travelling on the line on the video, obliged to take second because old and not rich.. I dread to think what my daughter ( French)
who travels a lot on French railways, will think of the train on this video...I will feel ashamed and she will get a bad impression
of Britain.
@@daydays12 if you're living in France the secret is to just buy an Interrail pass and avoid buying train tickets in the UK. Depending on how much train travel you're planning to do it can bring the daily cost down to about £30, you can do unlimited travel on the days of validity while also using it to travel between France and the UK at lower cost.
The best seats for comfort on the Western Region were the HST Class 43 which use to run on the line prior to these latest Class 800 series trains, The seats on the IET are solid and like sitting on a rock, first and second class are virtually the same with the exception of a padded headrest in the first class section, I have also travelled on the LNER Azuma trains which are virtually the same seating but there is a major difference in 1st Class on the LNER services with excellent dining on long distance trains compared to GWR 800 1st class services with the odd cup of Tea & a pack of Biscuits. All GWR 800 1st Class carriage's should go back to be refurbished with a more decent comfortable quality interior if they want to gain more 1st class passengers.
Crosscountry have better seats in first class but catering is not up to much. If you can try 1st class on a cross country hst, awesome! Seating in hst and voyager standard is slightly better than IET. Seated accommodation on the night riviera is actually better than the IET if you are taking on a local trip from Plymouth to Taunton.
BR Mk 3s were the best and most comfy carriages. More luggage space, and a van for bikes and heavy luggage.
You’re right. The old seats on the upgraded old trains were so much more comfortable. As you say, like leather armchairs. On a long journey like that you’d expect the possibility of a dining car which you could book a sitting with on a first class ticket. You could do this on LNER, in the day, but not sure if it still exists(?). They used to have a package; parking and first class with dining.
You could certainly do it on GWR - no booking, just turn up for a meal. Perfect for dinner going London to Plymouth, or breakfast the other way.
Omg, I used to travel this route all the time during the 1990s. The trains were really comfortable back then. I can't believe what rubbish they're running on this line now. I'd have hated travelling from Plymouth to London, and vice versa, in these standard class carriages.
I'm liking the Cornish station names being included too!
At last. A review that agrees with what I’ve been saying all along. GWR have a terrible offering for an intercity train. The worst seats by far. And for 1st class a terrible let down after a decent seat in the old HST.
Same stock on LNER. Different colour, same discomfort. I can barely walk after 5 hours in a standard class seat.
@@stevemichael8458 Oh no! I will have to use these trains in 2nd in the next few months
As someone who buys a First Class annual season west of Cardiff, I can tell you these are a welcome escape from the awful TfW. They're not how it used to be, but they're still massively better than the competition.
bet that wasnt cheap.
I use the 1st Deutsche Bahn service between Munich and Berlin every now and again, just over 4hrs for 370 miles. The 1st class experience is a world apart from what I'm seeing here. Am used to table service, a comfortable seat and a beer in a glass!
I've used the similar bike racks on lner and found it fine as long as your bike is light enough to lift - although they don't have the flip down luggage racks, which I can imagine interfere significantly...
In other words, get a lighter bike (sorry)
I used to travel 1st from Penzance to Exeter all the time. GWR had some of the comfiest seats I’ve been on and such a smooth ride. I stopped when they switched to these. I believe they still run the old sets but not as often by all accounts and can’t guarantee what you’ll be going on. The meal offerings weren’t the best but always got given a doggy bag of sandwiches, crisps, small pot of pudding and a coffee to take away.
The old sets dont have first class or catering any more
I have to agree that the ride quality and the seats on the IETs are pretty grotty. The old HSTs were streets ahead in every way. Always looked forward to a journey on the HSTs travelling from South Wales to London, bit with the IETs I'm pretty worn out by the end and suffer a numb bum no matter which class I dare to travel. Deary me, what a let down!
I travel on the 800s most days between Paddington and Reading to/from work and I’ve travelled on them dozens and dozens of times for intercity journeys too, and to be fair, compared to some of their alternatives, they’re not that bad.
I’d much rather travel on an IET home from work than a 345, and I for longer journeys I think they offer a far better experience than a CrossCountry Voyager (even despite the difference in seat comfort)
Agreed. I think they're an upgrade on HST. Electric so not filling PAD with fumes. Faster acceleration. Great reservation signage. Great toilets. You dont have to open the doors yourself! I think ppl are getting irrational nostalgia about HST!
Take a trip on LNER and feel the difference . . .
You're easily pleased@@mattwebb5532
As someone who has travelled in every class, on every varient of the 80x series units, I rate them as follows, with the major points listed, good & bad.
1st Lumo - Best seats, but cramped.
2nd LNER - Best catering, best attempt with luggage.
3rd Hull Trains - Great staff, but NO Std class catering.
4th TransPennineExpress - Would have been joint 3rd, if they could be guaranteed to turn up!
5th GWR - Seats seem to be hardest of all operators, poor catering. (Not tried the Pullman)
Apart from LUMO, they all have issues with seats & all have luggage space issues, which LNER have removed seats to try & help out with.
Having travelled in Japan.. the common theme is their second class, is better than our first..
I once was in GWR 1st class from Bristol TM to Reading and once never received anything or any announcements, complained and they said they didn't have to come round!
Also to mention no ticket checks so people just sat in there, saw the crew in the kitchen on their phones
I travelled this route quite regularly and it honestly isn't that bad. The carriage was clean and I didn't find the seats that bad. I have been on much worse trains in the Netherlands
Try those seats if you're over 1.83m... trust, they are torture instruments. Mainly because the bend in the back piece that's supposed to provide head support actually sits in the middle of your shoulders. Which after 30 mins or so is crippling. Horrible, awful, terrible design that could have been easily avoided.
@@Haawser I am over 1.9m and all seats on public transport do that for me. The head rests come up to your shoulders and I have never used an arm rest to rest my arm on. Also it is a train you can stand up and pace around for a bit when the seats get too much which you can't in many other forms of transport. I remember there being decent leg room which is what I usually struggle with.
@@ivaniii9707 That's the thing though, the trains they replaced had much better seats. Ones that fit just about anybody. But no, they picked a seat design that's actually a huge step backwards if you're tall. I mean, how hard is it to get a range of people from, say, 1.5 to 2m and test the seats ? Because if they had I'm quite certain that the taller ones would have said 'Woah ! No way !'. Or maybe they did ? And just decided to ignore them. Either way, it should never have happened.
It would be great to see your review on the Pullman dining service. I tried in April and honestly for me it's a once in a lifetime experience: the first impression is great but when you remember what you paid it's just "meh". It'd be a lot more fair if they offered complimentary LNER-style catering on all long distance services from/to Paddington instead of asking an absurd extra fee for a "special" catering in a couple of services only on weekdays.
So you would recommend it? Thinking going on it as I always wanted to go on it
My friend said he always went on the Pullman as you can just sit there for the full journey, and it's only a bit more than paying for First Class.
I experienced that trip from London to Penzance. A wonderful journey 30 years ago. Interesting to see the latest today's report. Thanks for the video. Incredible report. Since then i moved to MerthyrTydfil from Kent and enjoy every minute. Train fares are very high. Merthyr to Paddington was quoted £160 each . I walked out.
It's shocking how much (F)GW(R)'s services have declined since the HSTs stopped running on the routes.
They still run on this route. Check your facts
Dont blame the rollling stock. Blame the useless government that we have had for at least 13+ years and please use your vote at the next electtion@@NoOrganHarvesters
@@NoOrganHarvesters no they dont, check your facts
If you mean the Castle class HST's they will all be gone by December, another crazy decision.@@NoOrganHarvesters
@@updistant705 HST's are obsolete and well behind modern safety standards. They basically splinter apart in a collision, especially the drivers cab. They're just fibreglass shells on a rather small steel frame. Their record in derailing etc are pretty bad. They've been bested for years. They were great train sets when new and were for a long time, but they're past their prime now. Don't get me wrong, I love them, they're iconic, but they should be museum pieces now (and are). They served with distinction!
Thanks for uploading this. Great capture of the issues we see today on UK railways . It feels we are stuck in the eighties.
you mean the eighties of the 19th century right? That is correct
We went in 1st class from Oxford to Birmingham International a couple of years ago, & the first thing we noticed was that there was no telling where 1st class seating would be when the train arrived at Oxford. The train consists of two sets of coaches, & there's no way of passing between the two units whilst the train is in motion, so if you jump onto the 'wrong' end, you must wait until the next stop, then race along the platform with your luggage until you can get on again in the right part. We were only on board for an hour, or so, but we could feel that a much longer journey would tax most backsides. The staff were friendly enough, but the catering was pretty basic when one considers the price per ticket.
Isn't Oxford to Birmingham run by Cross Country, rather than GWR? It certainly used to be.
That route is CrossCountry's operation, using 20yo trains called Voyagers (aka Vomiters) which are also dreadful albeit for different reasons.... With frequencies returning to 'normal' there are now much fewer of those services formed of two units.
Shame about what GWR and other rail companies have done with the Hitachis. I used to commute on these Hitachi trains in Japan. Great ride, comfy seats, plush floorboards, nice lighting etc etc. I could go on - the lowest common denominator for our British trains unfortunately despite the high cost of tickets….makes one wonder where all the margin goes….
only sits at about a 2% profit margin.
I now drive back home to Penzanze instead of using the train from Moreton-in-Marsh.
The reason the train seats are awful if your over 5"8 and are very uncomfortable.
Their is no buffet car anymore just a overpriced trolley which is often sold out.
Always take your own food and drink then the lightning obviously used by the stasi for interrogation purposes.
Its also like driving a tractor for a ride. I have complained three times no response.
I was a railway man of 30 years service and get travel so it costs but a anything is better than these.
I'm a regular commuter in London, but first time I travelled on an LNER from King's Cross to Durham & oh my word, I had a numb bum & a sore back. I was shocked on how uncomfortable the seating & lighting was. LNWR first-class seats looked better & that's for a commuter train. That's the issue, it's not built for long-distance whether it be the interior or food on offer. Abysmal.
Bring back hst I say. I stopped travelling with lner as soon as they bought in hitachi classes. Can’t bring myself to travel on those trains when I’ve heard so many bad reviews on them. They look uncomfortable by far😖my back couldn’t handle those seats that’s with me only travelling from Donny to Peterborough on the regular before covid
For a so-called 'developed' country, railways in the UK are laughable. Looking at your excellent video it's like a journey back in time.
The last train I was on was the Limoges to Paris TGV... now that IS the future!
It's what happens when a country sells its soul to capitalism.
@@peterclarke7240If you think the UK is a capitalist country then you're too far gone mate. It would take hours and hours to list all the government enforced regulations that suppress true capitalism, the free market.
You don’t give a favourable insight on the uk railways..
@@michaelstaley2241 When they were invented they were a marvel of engineering and something that Britain could be proud of, but nowadays the railways are just badly managed and too expensive.
I wasn't impressed with the long-distance French train I was on this week. Yes, a larger seat but very worn and uncomfortable. No food served on French trains in First Class either: a trolley passes through the train with mediocre but expensive snacks you can buy. Although I was against the privatisation of our railways, it has led to competition between operators in terms of what they offer customers. To be fair I don't think GWR is too bad but, if you want to see how First Class should be done well, try LNER.
I remember several years ago, myself and my then partner going down from Reading to Pewsey on one of the then-new GWR Adelanté's.
THAT was an interesting journey!
Severely overcrowded, but the seats were at least comfortable when we eventually got one.
It’s such a shame how they downgraded from the HST with their beautiful interior to these horrendous machines.
Worth noting you also travelled on the ICE in Germany which have much better seat design, no stupid pole supporting the table, better catering options (yes…. It has much improved!) and ample ample luggage space.
When it comes to space on a train, the wider loading guage in Continental Europe always help.
The 800 is a massive steo down from the InterCity 125 in term of bicycle rack, those not only is terrible but incredibly inaccessible meaning only a select type of bicycle can fit and closed the door (road bicycles and some hybrid), it also mean e-bike cannot be fitted.
It's fustrasting as the UK used to have excellent support when it come to taking your bicycles (the old Caledonian Sleeper enable this with a big seperate room in the end of the train), but as it is right now, people are forced to use their cars instead of the trains nowadays.
i travel these trains 3 times a year and sadly they are a massive let down. ive done both first class and standard class and there is very little different. The seats are horrendous and very uncomfortable when traveling long distances from London to Plymouth and vice verer. the rubbish they serve on the Dollie trolley service is shocking compared to what the buffet car use to sever also. the HST wins hands down for the best and more relaxed trips and travel in comfort which is something for the history books so it seems. for the last few years i have paid alittle more to travel over night on the Riviera while it takes longer the comfort and the buffet is all there. #bringbackthehst
Straight to the point and kept my interest - no BS either! Keep 'em coming.
Duck from Thomas The Tank Engine would be very upset to see what the GWR has become.
I won’t lie, everytime I’ve been on this model it’s been one of the most smoothest journeys possible
smooth - but was it comfortable in 2nd?
exactly
@@daydays12 yeah, I honestly don’t know what people are on about
@@dorintic8915 thanks!
Spent years regularly travelling from Paddington down to South Wales to visit my family on the comfortable, if usually overcrowded HSTs / IC125 trains. They switched to these god awful things and within 6 months I'd bought a car and travel by that instead. I've no words for the people who selected these trains. Just no words at all. I'm sure they got plenty of brown envelopes along the way though, so they won't care.
I used to work on GWR as a travelling Chef. All but the Seats make sense. 12:25 that's the building where all GWR are trained as I was 27 years ago. We used to give 1st class massive cheese burgers then.
Great review, and confirms what I experience (and many others comment below) as a weekly commuter between Plymouth and London on these awful machines. I have to travel in Working class rather than First, and it genuinely is as bad as you say. Perhaps worse, as your single trip wouldn't have highlighted the regular uncleanliness I experience, especially when leaving Paddington, when the cleaners often seem to have walked through the train and done nothing whatsoever; litter-pick at best. In fact I turned up very early once to find the train sat at the platform; I boarded to find the cleaners all sat down checking FaceTok or whatever, until finally leaving the train when the next one to not-clean pulled in. I walked up the carriage to observe the usual carnage of crumbs, crisps, newspapers and various nasties all over the place. It's also not unusual for toilets to run out of paper within half an hour or so, or indeed often start with none in at all. I carry my own, just in case. There's also often no soap or water. Perhaps the only aspect of your review I'd argue with is that early on you state the IETs are built in the North of England. They are not. They arrive on container ships from Japan in a form that looks to the casual observer like me to be almost complete. My suspicion is that all we do in the UK is screw in a the light bulbs and spray them. This masks the fact that yet another industry - train building - that the Britain pioneered is now largely off-shored. But we maintain the facade that we build them here; i dread to think what the "factory" at Newton Ayecliffe cost the tax payer. Sad when, as others state, the wonderful HSTs they replaced were British designed and built, are still in service over 40 years after introduction, and are now being exported as we replace them with these garbage cans that will last a fraction of the time*. Well done UK PLC! (*I'm told by a reliable source that they all still have major cracks - the ones which brought the network to a stand-still a couple of years ago - and they still haven't got a reliable fix). For balance, I have to say that as a regular commuter, the GWR on-train staff are, without exception, Great. Unfortunately that's the only aspect of GWR that is.
Oh almost forgot, the refreshments trolley often doesn't make it down the train as the isle is so narrow, as soon as a few people get on board it's "not safe". And if you're lucky enough that it does reach you, half the time there are no hot drinks as the heater doesn't work. Whoever in the rail industry signed off on these as a viable replacement for HSTs should perhaps travel by train one day, assuming they haven't already. And then they should never work again in any role where they are able to make decisions!
The Pendolinos are crap as well. I don't think there has been a single decent bit of rolling stock put on the railways since BR Engineering was closed.
You did get a bargain on the price!
I travel on this line very frequently and I miss the buffet car and the comfortable first class seats I used to get when there was an offer on. There was a period of time when a first class ticket was only a couple of quid more than standard. Those were the days!
The other main issue I have is the luggage space is completely unsuitable for a long distance train.
A very good and comprehensive review of these awful trains. I also took advantage of a cheap first class upgrade not long after these trains made an appearance on the GW mainline. Like you say the first class offering is pretty poor, standard class is awful. Hopefully when these trains get a refurb GWR might take some inspiration from the old hst’s.
I take this train every 3 weeks and I have to say it is still more comfortable than Chinese HS. The rails do need some urgent maintenance though.
I don’t think that any GWR trains have working Wi-Fi. It doesn’t work on any of the trains I’ve been on.
It's the lack of connectivity investment through Wiltshire, Somerset, Devon and Kernow. I live by the so called Saltash transport hub (buses on Fore Street, ticket machine, ticket office and permit to travel machineless station and the Beryl bikes to cycle over the bridge) both GWR, Go Ahead and Beryl want you to purchase via app.
There is virtually no ordinary GSM signal never mind 3,4 or 5G most journeys from Saltash to barrier free stations remain unpaid journeys and penalty fares cannot be implemented as ticket options don't exist. At the start of the Football season the Gateline at Plymouth just opened the gates as the police (kreslu) were worried about crowd control. Nobody paid
The whole of England rail has poor wifi
@@andrewstorm8240 that's because the whole of England has poor GSM mobile coverage that feeds the onboard wifi. Having a phone conversation on a moving train without the line dropping every 5 minutes is impossible in this country.
I travelled on GWR in June of this year and found that the First Class seats were very uncomfortable. I also travelled in First Class on LNER and I found these seats were more comfortable than their GWR counterpart.
I have been once on them travelling from London to Cardiff, when they run high speed at certain parts of the trip one might think they fly off the tracks ....,it is indeed an unpleasant experience
Yes, that weird noise when they exceed 120 - a bigt scary. But don't wory they wont fly off the tracks
I made that journey every Friday morning for 10 years. I tried ‘Cattle Class’ the first week and made the upgrade to first class from the second week onwards ! I returned home on Sunday nights on the Night Riviera sleeper. Naturally I got to know the crews and always had VIP treatment - especially after I joined the RMT trade union and wore the lapel badge while travelling ! I was eventually even given a clue by some of the crew as to how to only pay for one ticket a month - shhhhh!
These trains are definitely less comfortable than the HSTs they replaced. But once you have done a few journeys on Sprinter class trains, e.g. 158s, these IETs suddenly seem luxurious. Not the most comfortable of seats but you do at least get treated to something called leg room. £33 for your journey in first class is the deal of the century!
Agree regarding seats - the leather ones were great. Step up from the platform probably the worst feature for me. Lack of luggage space also bad.
I did not know so many shared my view that the seating was so hard and uncomfortable (aside from the inevitable few). I so miss the HST 125 MK3 carriages, (designed in the 1970's) they were quieter, more refined and had more relaxing lighting/interior too. Happy days for all those who enjoy sitting on a padded bar stool for 3 hours+ while being gently shaken!
Mk 3s were the best carriages ever built. And the trains had a guards van for bikes.
For all those feeling a little nostalgic...The Intercity Relax Advert from 1990. th-cam.com/video/6DNWSBsDgsM/w-d-xo.html Watch out for the chess pieces, dead still...and beginning to fall asleep, such is the legendary smooth ride of the MK 3's!
That stretch of line through Dawlish is probably my favourite bit of track in the whole of the UK.
It's been many years since I last travelled along it but I remember it fondly 😎.
You didn't mention the horrible noise from the motors whether they be on electric or diesel. My preference for a trip to London is one of these to Exeter and then a nice comfy - but slower - ride to Waterloo.
Significantly cheaper worth investing in the Network Card. Buy a ticket from Exeter to Queens Park and or Finsbury Park you get a free tube
With a Cummins diesel throbbing beneath you! 😅
@@12crepello the 158 interior sound is significantly lower than the IET interior sound whenther its runing diesel or electric. they produce an utterly dreadful bassy sound at speed, no idea what it is but its about 10 decibels higher than the mark 3s at the same speed
In my experience these are far more comfortable, quiet and smooth than the jumped up commuter trains from Exeter to Waterloo.
It's not just that the standard class seats are thin and uncomfortable, they're also worn out already, with the metal bar poking through, so not even fit for purpose, having already had their seat covers replaced.
I did this journey in standard class on a hangover this sunday, the 5 hours was killer on my back 😭😭😭
Good news that the seat helped your hangover. Sleep well my friend and get some help with your back. Maybe an osteopath?
Great video, lovely scenery, thank you! I've travelled on that train from Paddington to Newport, S. Wales and back. I agree with you. The seats are very uncomfortable and the ride is horrible.
Someone recently gave the IET a nickname Intensely Exasperated Torture.
that name goes hard
You are a very brave young man to do that. I have trouble just going to Cardiff from Newport on one.
At least I was in first class! 😭
hi, i told you some time ago these trains were like riding in a skip.we never asked for them,should have kept the HSTs as in original condition, i travelled to Plymouth in 1982, with great service from the trolley girls, how times have changed for the worse, but now in 2023 its about profit and filling seats no matter what,thats First Group for you,
They were ordered and specified by the Dept of Transport, nowt to do with First Group.
I took one of these trains from Exeter to Paddington last year in standard class. Yes it was a bumpy ride seats were hard fare was throw the roof but the train was spotlessly clean and the staff were nice they even gave me a free cup of tea.
I did try First Class on a HST once between London Paddington and Paignton and it was one of the best journeys I've ever done, This was years ago and even had snow on the Dawlish sea wall which was beautiful, only tried a GWR IET first class once but this was on a Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads service which first class is declassified on this route. It was okay for a short distance between Cam & Dursley ad Yate but wouldn't mind giving it a go on a long distance service.
The trouble is we're now stuck with this rubbish for up to 30 years@@garethhenshaw
Well made videos. Riding into penzance is always exciting.
Me and my son did a video here a few monthd ago.
That's awesome! And thank you so much. 😊
good scenery along the coast......and great that you did not have any tongue twisting city names you usually run into on the Continent ...well handed with aplomb .....thanks 🚂🚂
We traveled on them to St Blazy from Paddington. Went First Class, and found seats very uncomfortable! (
Travelled first class and the only benefit i found was the quietness, i still travel first class for that reason only. I travel alone and just like the reassurance of peaceful travel not having to worry about who i sit next to. Your spot on with everything you say. The trains seem short of staff and need a kick up the backside . Thanks for your video ☺️
agreed
I used to go 1st class for my 12 minute commute (Chippenham to Bath) it was only worth it because it cost £3.50 a day more than standard.
The downgrade from the old Class 43 HST was mind boggling, it's the epitome of boiler plate, H&S gone mad
Have to say that I have never travelled GWR, but have travelled Avanti West Coast line return trips between Birmingham and London recently, twice over the last couple of months and 1st class on my senior's railcard, the last journey being on 29th Aug. The layout was similar as in the video as most will be. I was impressed; seats felt very comfortable to me and everywhere was clean. The carriage was noticeably very quiet, soundproofed and movement very sedate (say in comparison to the Virgin, bucket seat, 'pendulum' trains of some years ago). Bearing in mind this was a 1.5 hour, straight through train until 1st stop at Birmingham International (Airport) so you might just expect to be offered a sandwich perhaps! Not long after moving off from Euston at the stated time of 10.40am, staff came and placed menu's on the tables and asked what drinks we might like; there was a four breakfast choice menu (toast/preserves, porridge wth honey/preserves, a cooked hash browns and other things meal and last but least, the great British full breakfast; so two lighter breakfasts and two larger ones whichever was to your taste and for e.g. had you say also wanted the toast with your full British, you could have had that aswell. I had the toast and porridge options; the porridge came in a 'large' size bowl (no small helping) and was very nice, creamy, very tasty indeed. The toast came in four half slices of the most delicious granary bread with your choice of preserves to; again had I wanted more it would have been a simple thing to ask...that was the impression I was given. In 1.5 hours there is only so much you can do but I would give a 5/5 feedback for Avanti and its staff efficiency, food quality, comfort etc based on my last two return trip experiences with them and will travel with them again.
Okay, those lights showing if a seat has been reserved are actually really clever. Now I want them for Norwegian trains.
Sadly most are unaware of them, so don't be surprised if your reserved seat is occupied!
The seats on the old train looked very comfy! Yes, the same problem everywhere. The Thameslink trains must have the absolute hardest seats since 3rd class was abolished (and their wooden seats). The new Eurostar (already looking quite poor with stained carpets and no maintenance) is also much harder than the old one. I think the main reasons are weight saving. That's why there are now garden chairs on aeroplanes (thinking about British Airways here)
Third class was much better than today's first class.
The lack of padding on seats is a "safety feature". It has nothing to do with weight saving, it is negligible. It is about the amount of dense black toxic smoke produced should your train/plane crash & catch fire. Fire retardant materials do exist - but they are expensive.
Isn’t wool fire resistant? Or is that too expensive?
Please tell me how many people died of smoke inhalation in Mark 2, 3 and 4 vehicles from 1965 onwards@@iank-dz6gg
@@iank-dz6gg "Safety Features"? Should your train crash and catch fire, there are no seat belts such as on the plane (which you are requested to use whilst landing or during take-off). So I guess it's all probabilities. Are you likely to be crushed to death by being thrown into the table or seat and passenger infront of you, when your train derails at 125 mph, or by inhaling toxic smoke during said crash or by fire, or by all three? I suppose that when I get on a high speed train I feel safe in the knowledge that cleverer people than me have "done the statistics and the maths". It does make me think though.
I travelled standard from Paddington to Oxford and needed to wash my hands, not a single one of the taps worked. Eventually I had to ask the guard to open up the mirror and manually hold the water on.
A sad replacement for their previous trains which really felt luxurious, even in second class, and had such features as video screens. These trains look and feel like poor commuter stock. Excellent video!
It seems from other comments that that's actually what they are- low-end short-hop commuter trains, dumped on us Brits as intercities by lousy train companies.
I do a day trip to Penzance, roughly once a year.. the HST's were far more comfortable and even in the year before they finished, you could get a bacon mini baguette at the buffet car and it was worth the £4 (plenty of bacon inside). The first IET I did was awful .. nothing more than tea/coffee, hot chocolate or porridge for breakfast and little else on the afternoon train back, Which is crazy if you are sat on a train for 5 1/2 hours each way. As for the seats....
By comparison, I have done Virgin/Avanti and LNER, both a decent cooked breakfast and a good evening meal with a good selection of drinks (And plenty of dessert on the later trains back!). GWR need to try these trains/food offerings.
The 800 series trains need to refurbished with better seats/ambiance etc. Sadly Avanti seem to be taking the new 800's as well, hopefully they have better seats in their version!
You get a thumbs up just for that route preview. Probably the best I have seen on TH-cam 👍
You clearly haven’t watched the GWR cab view from Plymouth to Paddington that is available on here, that was taken on the last Plymouth - Paddington HST…
These trains are very similar to the Javelin High Speed which run up & down HS1 at 140mph all day. As well as the LNER Azuma trains and the Lumo trains. Wonder why the seats and ride are regarded as uncomfortable?
because they are uncomfortable, dont compare these to the javlins, they were built to proper specs, a world of difference between that and the cheap as possible DFT specs for the IETs
Thanks for this review. I have traveled both first and standard class on these horrendous trains on this route and have to say I found the extra cost for first a con given the abysmal seating and the indifferent 'complimentary' trolley service. Standard class seats are torture and the trains' rough ride can be quite disturbing. They look, feel and behave as if 'cheap and nasty.' The lack of a proper restaurant or buffet service is dreadful. They need urgent refurbishment and overhaul.
Just like his country then?
Informative review. GWR could solve the catering issue by having the equivalent of airline catering at either end of the line and warm the meals up en route as required. That's a cheaper solution than installing a kitchen and dining car. Where do I claim my consultancy fee? ;-)
Strangely I prefer them to the HSTs and the seats for me (I'm tall with a dodgy back) are actually quite comfy especially in first class
I also travelled with both (GWR and LNER) as I visited Great Britain this Spring. In my opinion the seats were quite comfortable, even for long distances. Judging by the pictures of the former Trains, they´re probably a downgrade though. In comparison to the trains run by CrossCountry these trains are still very much more comfortable and have less travel noises.
@@bahnfahrenaufschlau only problem with cross country is the trains smell of piss but there not to bad tbf
Same with me.
@@pat_ross55And you have to stand on XC services.
Train engines are left idling to power the air conditioning and heating, catering, toilets, etc etc.
I was surprised that you described this as a high-speed train. Especially west of Plymouth there are frequent stops and speeds are low.
I was thinking the same thing. Even in Canada, our train cars from the 1950s do the same distance in less time!
Worst thing is that some of the uncomfortable seats do not have window, even in first class.... many of the airline style in standard have little or no window too. Didn't have that back in the good old days of the HST type trains. IET are just awful, I especially miss buffet car and as regular traveller from Cornwall to London sometime don't get access to the trolley service til way past Taunton... oh and also don''t like card only option for payment... a) everywhere should accept cash and b) during parts of journey the staff struggle with getting signal to go through for card payments!
Exactly, I agree. They are terrible.
"high-speed train" : 5 hr 14 min, 304 mi (489 km).. 93 kph??😳 a "high-speed" train??😂😂 Try a "real" High Speed Train: TGV Paris-Bordeaux (575 km) : 6 November 2023, departure Paris 9:04am - arrival Bordeaux 11:14am, travel time 2hr10 min. Cost 45 euros.
this is why we need HSTs have another chance of life instead going to the scraper torch
Cornish Mainline (Penzance - Plymouth) is basically zigzag after zigzag, it cannot have a speed limit more than 75 mph most likely because of that. South Devon Mainline has 100 mph speed limit, Taunton - Reading line has 110 mph speed limit, and the stretch from Reading to London has 125 mph.
Great Western Mainline is Paddington - Bristol (goes via Reading) has 125 mph limit. The same type of trains as in the video is also used on the East Coast Mainline (London King's Cross - Edinburgh Waverley), it mostly has 125 mph limit with some slower sections. So yeah, this train is considered high speed, but the tracks that it goes on in this video... Not really