Butter cups are basically a rubber mount between the damper/air spring and the lowers. As opposed to being directly bolted to the lowers. At least that's my understanding of what it is.
Super cool upgrades, and many people will be gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands about upgrading. But as you say, the outgoing model was and still is a VG fork, so keeping your existing Zeb or buying the 2022 model could well be the best option. That aside, some comparisons between old/new and with the competition will be eagerly awaited! 🤔😏.
Has the long term review been posted? Interestedd in hearing your thoughts. Have an older pike I am looking to swap out. Really interested in the new circuits and quieter ride.
I just got a new ultimate today. When I unboxed it I noticed no sag meter on the stanchon like older modems. Guess got to break out the calculatier and tape measure! Lol
I am really curious I would like to test one. I have a zeb select+ and I find it absolutely amazing, so much better than a factory 36 i rode before. so I do wonder if any improvement are really significant. I feel the 2021 fork is already very active/sensitive, miles better anything I rode before.
The claim about the HSC and LSC being completely separate is accurate as far as I can tell. They've used sequential valving, meaning oil flows through a high speed circuit and then the slow speed rather than both at the same time. So if speeds are slow enough, the oil isn't restricted by the HS and is controlled by the LS, and when speeds are high the HS controls flow and bypasses the LS because of preloaded shims. Ridden reviews that I have seen have confirmed this. A very interesting advancement and a blow to Fox's Grip2!
All you need for good separation is a LSC port small enough to choke early in the HS range, something they were unable to do for whatever reason (or in the case of Charger 2.0 they made it so that the low speed needle couldn't ever close the port and it was large enough not to ever fully choke in the first place 🤷)
The markings are absolutely useless anyway, and ruin the aesthetics. Measuring static fork sag is very inconsistent and pointless. Just get your spring rate right and tune the damping. The only way to measure sag (dynamic) on a fork in a proper way is to use telemetry.
Which one is more comfortable, 2023 Zeb due to butter cups (but stiffer) vs 2021 Lyric Ultimate (less stiff but no buttercups). Concern is hand/arm fatigue.
Just got a decoy core 2 in December and put the best damper in it, will have to wait a bit before I get a new fork. The new super deluxe ultimate looks pretty sweet though.
The 5 guys I know that have them, all said they were really impressive, and they were raving mostly. So for those that say its hype. Why would anyone care what you are guessing about the performance?
I have a my22 Zeb ultimate. How much of this new stuff will work with my fork? Will all Charger 3, debonair + air spring, and butter cups upgrades fit on my my22 Zeb?
The real question is if any of those claims actually mean much in the real world, unlike the last 5 years or so they've been claiming the same stuff with no construction changes
@@TheLoamWolf mostly interested about the damper, air spring didn't change much, though for sure very sceptical about the "butter cups" on the damping rod, Rock Shox tunes always felt like lacking effective damping to me, this will make it so on small bumps there is zero damping, so less traction for sure 🤷
Yes you can. I have called around and the selling of of the whole shock will be out in a couple weeks. Getting the damper is far out one company said a year. I will hold out for upgrading the internals hoping sooner then later.
This 50% whatever more bushing overlap is complete marketing BS. They compare it to the 2023 select and base, but not the 2022 ultimate. Did they just cut the bushings down smaller on the non-ultimate 2023 and the 2023 ultimate has same bushings as 2022 ultimate? I keep hearing that same marketing wank, but it doesn't mean crap until they compare same model year over year.
the new series is unfortunately not backwards compatible.It is also a shame that they force the users to buy a Zeb if they want a long travel fork. Just like what fox did with the 38. SRAM chopped the stanchions in order to prevent the user to increase the travel and to save some weight. With the new series there will be no comparison between the lyric and the Zeb since they don't overlap each other. And SRAM will not have to justify the existence of zeb anymore since noone will need to convince us that a 180mm Lyric is worse than the Zeb and that we have to upgrade. I hope that the new price range will also make the buyers think of buying from another manufacturer such as DVO, Formula, Cane creek or Marzocchi.Cheers
Given the RockShox 35's reputation for failure (what my bike came with), why would I want to spend money on another RockShox product? I'm leaning towards the Mezzer Pro, personally.
Save money on 2022 Rock Shox here. alnk.to/h6BpSpX
Use LOAMWOLF15
I like the shirt. Do you have one that says "destroy pedals"?
Butter cups are basically a rubber mount between the damper/air spring and the lowers. As opposed to being directly bolted to the lowers. At least that's my understanding of what it is.
Super cool upgrades, and many people will be gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands about upgrading. But as you say, the outgoing model was and still is a VG fork, so keeping your existing Zeb or buying the 2022 model could well be the best option. That aside, some comparisons between old/new and with the competition will be eagerly awaited! 🤔😏.
Thanks we’ll be sure to get into the testing and comparing asap.
Has the long term review been posted? Interestedd in hearing your thoughts. Have an older pike I am looking to swap out. Really interested in the new circuits and quieter ride.
Would you buy the zeb 2023 ultimate or fox 38 factory?
The new changes are really impressive, love the 2022s a lot so this should be huge!
I just got a new ultimate today. When I unboxed it I noticed no sag meter on the stanchon like older modems. Guess got to break out the calculatier and tape measure! Lol
I am really curious I would like to test one. I have a zeb select+ and I find it absolutely amazing, so much better than a factory 36 i rode before. so I do wonder if any improvement are really significant. I feel the 2021 fork is already very active/sensitive, miles better anything I rode before.
Can’t find the long term review, TH-cam search index broken?
I was about to pull the trigger on a DVO Diamond D1, but the new Lyric has me super curious. I'd love to see a comparison.
That’d be a good one.
The claim about the HSC and LSC being completely separate is accurate as far as I can tell. They've used sequential valving, meaning oil flows through a high speed circuit and then the slow speed rather than both at the same time. So if speeds are slow enough, the oil isn't restricted by the HS and is controlled by the LS, and when speeds are high the HS controls flow and bypasses the LS because of preloaded shims. Ridden reviews that I have seen have confirmed this. A very interesting advancement and a blow to Fox's Grip2!
All you need for good separation is a LSC port small enough to choke early in the HS range, something they were unable to do for whatever reason (or in the case of Charger 2.0 they made it so that the low speed needle couldn't ever close the port and it was large enough not to ever fully choke in the first place 🤷)
Yes we’ve seen it pulled apart and looks very very cool. Excited to get it out.
Will the buttercups make a big difference if you equip it to a hardtail? Compared to the grip 2 damper?
Any thoughts on no more sag markings on the stanchions? Personally, I can't understand why they did this.
It is a bit odd they ditched em. We’ll reach out and see if there’s an official reason.
The markings are absolutely useless anyway, and ruin the aesthetics. Measuring static fork sag is very inconsistent and pointless. Just get your spring rate right and tune the damping. The only way to measure sag (dynamic) on a fork in a proper way is to use telemetry.
@@th_js Yeah, this. And how hard can it be to use tape measure if one want's to know static sag?
@@th_js complete newb… how do you know the spring rate is right?
Cleaner look and you shouldn’t measure the fork out of travel% but feel imo
What’s the knee pads you are wearing! Thanks!
Pls help me🥲..... how big is your crown?? 59mm? Is it the big or the small crown?there are two versions!
Which one is more comfortable, 2023 Zeb due to butter cups (but stiffer) vs 2021 Lyric Ultimate (less stiff but no buttercups). Concern is hand/arm fatigue.
Did you ever get an answer on any of the places you've asked?
@@skinnybricks yeah Fanatik Bike answered
Lateral bending can cause hand fatigue in the long run so when in doubt, go with overkill
Just got a decoy core 2 in December and put the best damper in it, will have to wait a bit before I get a new fork. The new super deluxe ultimate looks pretty sweet though.
When will the Lyrik be available with 27.5 and 37mm extension in Black?
How is that compared to Flight Attendant?
my 2022 Zeb Ultimate is dialed, I'll wait a year or two and let The Wolf sort it out and give me the skinny after they beat in some miles
Ok for ebike?
So for the big question fox 38 or new zeb ??
Hi, can you use this also on emtb?
yes you can.
Long term review?
The 5 guys I know that have them, all said they were really impressive, and they were raving mostly. So for those that say its hype. Why would anyone care what you are guessing about the performance?
Where can you buy the 2023 Zeb?
I have a my22 Zeb ultimate. How much of this new stuff will work with my fork? Will all Charger 3, debonair + air spring, and butter cups upgrades fit on my my22 Zeb?
Sorry but they are totally different platforms
Not the zeb it the same with burp valves.
@@armandoserna9692 No that’s not correct ZEB is almost the same platform so buy upgrade kit.
2021 onwards Zeb can add charger 3, debonair+ and buttercups upgrades.
The real question is if any of those claims actually mean much in the real world, unlike the last 5 years or so they've been claiming the same stuff with no construction changes
Yeah, there are most definitely some changes inside these new ones, so we’re excited to see.
@@TheLoamWolf mostly interested about the damper, air spring didn't change much, though for sure very sceptical about the "butter cups" on the damping rod, Rock Shox tunes always felt like lacking effective damping to me, this will make it so on small bumps there is zero damping, so less traction for sure 🤷
The zeb is just 2
3yo what do you mean ?
@@TheAntoine191 I mean the same marketing wank they've been spouting for years, Zeb is literally just a bigger lyric, so same principles apply.
@@piciu256 i bet you don't tried it. Zeb is so smooth / stiff at the same time.
So I can get the charger 3 damper for a 2021 and newer Zeb ?
Yes
Yes you can. I have called around and the selling of of the whole shock will be out in a couple weeks. Getting the damper is far out one company said a year. I will hold out for upgrading the internals hoping sooner then later.
Upgrade kit and you can get buttercups.
I came because I wanted to know how to open a box....
Shoot.. We actually staged this box and had it prepped with the tape already cut and packing material out. Next time we’ll include those steps!
@@TheLoamWolf thanks!
This 50% whatever more bushing overlap is complete marketing BS. They compare it to the 2023 select and base, but not the 2022 ultimate. Did they just cut the bushings down smaller on the non-ultimate 2023 and the 2023 ultimate has same bushings as 2022 ultimate? I keep hearing that same marketing wank, but it doesn't mean crap until they compare same model year over year.
the new series is unfortunately not backwards compatible.It is also a shame that they force the users to buy a Zeb if they want a long travel fork. Just like what fox did with the 38.
SRAM chopped the stanchions in order to prevent the user to increase the travel and to save some weight. With the new series there will be no comparison between the lyric and the Zeb since they don't overlap each other. And SRAM will not have to justify the existence of zeb anymore since noone will need to convince us that a 180mm Lyric is worse than the Zeb and that we have to upgrade. I hope that the new price range will also make the buyers think of buying from another manufacturer such as DVO, Formula, Cane creek or Marzocchi.Cheers
Given the RockShox 35's reputation for failure (what my bike came with), why would I want to spend money on another RockShox product? I'm leaning towards the Mezzer Pro, personally.