Id really like to see the OEM 392 camshaft compared to other aftermarket camshafts when installed in a late model 5.7 HEMI. There is a lot of debate whether it is worth putting the 392 camshaft in a 5.7 and you could finally put this to bed by comparing dyno charts!
The Comp cam that Richard replaced the stock cam with on the first test is just a tiny bit bigger than the 392 cam.. so the 392 cam would obviously do the same curve wise for the motor - just not make as much peak torque/hp.
@@richardholdener1727 Exactly and considering the Comp Cam you installed gave nearly identical down low numbers as the stock cam I would think if you are doing a cam swap and not trying to do something budget orientated that it would be better to just go with the Comp Cam.
ive tuned a ton of them with 392 cams, its worth it, the top end gains are huge. I'm actually tuning a 16 RT with a procharger and 6.4 cam right now. On 8 psi and long tubes its expected to make 575 at the wheels, it made 500 with blower only.
Damn thats a significant difference Lol 505 hp out of a cam only Hemi ! Jeeeeez ! The old cammed Hemi didnt do too bad either, 437 hp is no slouch. Thanks
Would be nice to see a pre eagle block with eagle heads and maximum camshaft with the stock pistons and some 392 exhaust manifolds. It's what most are doing on a budget
Great video Richard, glad to see these Hemi dyno videos and to see someone actually use the variable intake and variable cam timing. People seem to just lock those out and forget about it.
I build these pretty regular here in Alabama. A Gen 3 hemi loves a good cam. I did a STG 3 in a 392, no other changes, stock exhaust, still has cats, etc only a cam and supporting springs and pushrods, picked up 54 rwhp... love my HEMIs
Your videos have helped me with my customers at my job for being a customer service advisor. I'm more able to inform them about the motor in their vehicle. I've always been a motor guy. Thanks for your videos and keep it up 👍👍 💯
This goes to show that the engineers at dodge know what the hell they are doing, even in the early gen 3 hemis the aftermarket head engineers have a very hard time designing a better port than what comes from the factory and then the guys at dodge went and just made it even better
the late model "eagle" heads are fantastic, like you said the aftermarket head companies had a difficult time trying to make a better head. And honestly for the money aftermarket heads cost your better off lightly porting the factory units.
American manufactures have been getting a bum wrap for many years. Back in the late 80's, 90's I used to read online engine engineering inspectors rant "American engines are obsolete because they are still using timing chains and gears". I used to comment and say "and when they get all the issues worked out, there will be no more timing belts. All the research and development will be stolen and copied because you sure don't want a rubber belt operating those moving parts for any longer then 6 to 10 years". But I have to say, most people that own a foreign car follow the maintenance schedule like clock work.
@@Ed70Nova427 I've noticed that people that own foreign cars will buy extended warranties and always have their matinence done on time. Not to say people who buy domestics don't but some of the most clapped out vehicles that I've seen still putting around are american vehicles. Espcially the old trucks with the oldschool pushrod V8s, simple designs last forever it seems if you maintain them.
@@jaymoe5.7 You're absolutely right. Go to any parking lot and look for old cars and you will see some European but mostly American and maybe not in the best condition but that's what you'll find. It is difficult to find an 85 Camry or Honda almost zero Mitsubishi's and you'll find Datsun Z's. Again simple design. What gave American products the black eye is the paint and plastics. Of course this was blamed on upper management and number cruncher's and some might be due to that. But 90% of the failure in chemical based products was because all American manufacturers had to use only EPA approved paints and plastics while the rest of the world can build and sell cars in this country using whatever product there engineers came up with. I remember most everyone saying "I will never buy another American product because they use cheep junk materials", but in fact it was more expensive and well documented in the engineering quality control data to be of lesser quality then the previous materials but had to be put into use due to the approval of the EPA. Vinyl is cheaper than the material they had to engineer and they were already using it so it was way more cost effective but it was band in automotive production in the early 80's. In 2008 in the bankruptcy of GM, the government had the EPA loosen the specifications and allow the use of European grade plastics and paints. Overnight all of the big three changed to the European grade and that is why if you go to an American car dealership today and look at the interiors you will think it was made by a company in Europe. Anyway I own three Chevy's one Buick and one Pontiac at this time. I buy American as much as I can and turn down and or go without other's but its gotten to the point now that it's only a name on a box.
@@Ed70Nova427 yep thats exactly right, my 2011 dodge truck has a much nicer interior than my 2005 did, but I tell ya what, the sheet metal is waaayyy thinner than the body panels on my 79 Plymouth
Love it Richard! I’m currently building an early engine with late heads, pistons and rods. Looking forward to the bump in CR and flow while maintaining the more simple block and components!
I had good luck with my 05 hemi put the bigger 6.1l heads that also bumps up compression running a thicker head gasket 10.8-1 have to run 91 6.1 cam and balancer and a 2015 5.7 hemi intake seems to work well
Watched all your Gen 3 hemi videos and have your book about building them! Having a collection of Mopar engines sitting waiting for projects I’ve grown to love piecing together my Hemi for my 35 dodge pickup! Keep up the Mopar love!🤘🏽
So happy to see some Gen 3 Hemi love but so disappointed to not see apples to apples testing. The cam specs should have been much closer to each other. Still happy to see some Hemi testing of any kind though. Thank you and keep it up. Lots of Hemi guys out here watching your channel 👍👍
With eagle heads, high compression, and a cam, a pre-eagle hemi can put down some good power. Mine put down 413HP/418TQ with eagle heads, ebay longtubes, and a Comp cams Thumpr cam, and a stock eagle intake manifold, stock airbox.
Yup and the aluminum that was being shaved off the cylinder head as the seat moved around. The compression and power stroke would blow all that stuff back up into the intake manifold and over time it gathers and really makes a mess. Then of course the seat gets kicked out and that's when the customer bring you the car. If you own a shop, the best thing to do is replace the manifold with a new one. I have to say one of the mechanics in the shop reused a manifold of his own but he spent hours flushing and shaking with gasoline and washing in soap and water. That was a couple years ago and he is still driving it, so I guess it has a chance to work. You want to see something scary. Poor some gasoline in a brand new intake, shake it around and poor it out. Sometimes you see black plastic strips or shavings and not only in the Chrysler manifolds.
Richard, love your vids and insight to all of this Hocus pocus engine magic. :). Ever thought about dyno'ing that late model 5.7, only using a 6.4L cam in it instead? That should preserve some of the low speed torque (through the ability to keep VVT happening)?
Great vid. I've got an early gen III hemi, but now I'm thinking I need to find a later Gen III...so thanks for that. With aftermarket fuel-injection for early engines become more commonplace, one wonders if we'll ever see a dual-runner composite intake for engines like the SBC/BBC's?
The Gen 3 Hemi and LS are really close in design, and have similar problems in the valvetrain. Unlike the LS, you have to pull the heads to do a cam swap....meh.....Im surprised no one has come out with a kit to swap the cams like the LS. Make life simpler.
@@hoost3056 Heads are totally different. Hemi has different valve layout, shaft rocker arms and dual plugs. You can change the cam without pulling heads if you don't change the lifters.
@@slomo1010 Well, I have never owned or even driven one, so I'm not actually in a position to say. But I have heard a lot of good things about them (regarding power) from others who do drive them. As for Fiat, yes, it does seem like everything they touch turns into ****...
As usual, more questions come from a good test.... Pistons that allow full VVT but don't sacrifice compression along with as much cam as is practical for a street application. Since it's really just VCT that doesn't allow a lot more cam but still. Great stuff!
I have one of each of these. My VVT is a '14 but I'm not sure it has the variable intake runner. I do know that the 2008 car is more fun to drive and is more responsive to throttle inputs. I tend to think it is also a bit quicker in 0 to 60 and quarter mile times. The '08 car is about 400 pounds lighter than the '14 so that may be some of it. Both cars (AWD 300's) have the 5 speed automatic transmission and 3.07 ratio but the '14 also has taller tires.
So iv ran Rams at the track for years and I can say this. I had a 2004 5.7 truck. 2wd short bed standard can. Ran like a 15.2 my crew cab 2017 ran 14.6 both had cold air intakes and a flowmaster muffler. I like the 17 ram a lot better for performance.
Huge fan of Gen III Hemi!!! thank you - On a live video cast or posted video, you eluded to a future Mopar 360/5.9L Magnum test - when can we expect to see that?
Thank you for doing a Hemi video! If you ever feel inspired, I would love to see an early 235 HP Chrysler 4.7 with the infamous 2008+ factory cams and intake manifold swap! Rumor mill says they add power to the older engines but doesn’t seem anyone has done a dyno run after making those upgrades.
I believe the active dual runner intake is a 6.4 intake manifold not a 5.7 intake but can be made to work with the 5.7. I have been seeing many tuners are now deactivating the VVT because it actually causes problems and less hp. My understanding it is mainly for emissions and not an advantage for performance.
Would you be up to doing some injector end angle testing? Be great to see what gains could be made by moving them around with different duty cycles to also show how much it helps if you are only using 50 duty cycle so you have more room to move things around.
Hi Richard. I love your videos and have learned a lot from them. Based on your extensive knowledge and experience, will you please comment on the cause of lifter roller failures on Gen III hemis, and what can be done to cure/prevent the problem.
8:00 So is a stock 5.7 after 2017 making these kinds of numbers? Looking at a new Durango R/T and it's rated for 360 just wondering if Dodge underrated these power ratings?
I think those numbers for the early Hemi 5.7 stuff are about right. I only see stock examples put down around 275-280ish on our DynoJet. I don’t see many early 5.7s break the 300whp mark until we start playing with the tune.
This is not confirmed but i got a few people talking about this: The older gen3 bottom end was built much tougher than the latest gens which means less to upgrade if you want to boost them. So ideally a gen3 5.7 with Magnum manifold and Eagle heads would the the perfect starting point for stupid numbers once you boost it.
Late model 5.7 truck intake manifold vs late model 6.4 truck intake manifold. Please. Love all the great content. Joined for the LS stuff stay for the variety.
I'd like to see a Gen 1 Chrysler Hemi 331. They're so rare and unusual and heavy and expensive! I don't think I've ever seen anybody Dyno a street built one. Maybe even a commando 273!
I loved this test. I feel like ive seen you test both runners of an avaiator 4v intake but it may have been an fr500. Another interesting car that uses similar tech is the lincoln continental. It uses the single port c cobra heads, while still using a split runner intake. They dont use a butterfly valve however to switch runners so would it be safe to assume the air chooses the best path on its own?
@@michaelangelo8001 They do not have a valve in the c headed cars. It's a butterfly free plate that transitions the single port c head to the twin port mark intakes. The b headed cars have the runner valve but not the c headed car. I've verified this on my own car and several from scrap yards I've pulled parts from.
@@michaelangelo8001 the continental is a fwd, 4.6 dohc similar to the mark viii. They were equipped with twin port heads like cobras were. The 2000+ models have c cobra heads with single ports, and used twin port mark viii intake manifolds. Google a 00 continental engine bay to see how they shoehorned it sideways in there. Ive got a 0-80 in mine on my channel too.
@@madmod Yeah, I've seen them. Actually I had forgotten they ever existed. More or less, a Ford Taurus with a V8. When you said Continental, I thought you meant the Mark VIII.
Are the lifters oil ported over the roller and needle bearings on the gen IV hemi, or is it the same problematic lifter designs as on the gen III hemi?
@Richard Holdener, if I have a 2006 charger rt and want to make that same power that your talking about, so i was wondering what would be the best cam set up to have. Thanks Dan
I have an 06 Hemi in a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Can you recommend a good cam that would increase power by 100hp plus give it a nice lopy idle. What other modifications would you recommend to go with the cam swap. The Jeep hasc120,000 miles on it. I have the 5.7 Hemi, 5 speed Quadratrak transmission with 373 gears.
Richard, can a late model dual-runner intake be put on an early engine? Getting more compression is pretty simple from early heads, but that dual runner is soooo interesting. Great video btw.
Got an 08 engine, last week, ordered that exact cam you used, glad I did - although the early gen 3 is lethargic compared to the much better tech hemi, that cam really woke it up, even in the lower RPMs. My heads are getting milled about .010 and with the new pistons, I calculate I'll be almost 10:1, so for a budget build, I think I'm going to be pretty happy with it. Funny thing is used later model 5.7's really aren't that much more money now, but I already had the engine, so I'm using it. Great video!
OEM hemi lifters are failing left and right, the shop I work at has been replacing cam and lifters in Ram trucks almost once a week, most have 80,000-120,000. The tiny local dealer stocks 6 cams, 96 lifters, and the parts guy says they sell at least one set every day over the counter, and two or three internal every day. I think I would consider aftermarket lifters if I was building one.
the reason that happens is because the cam is set very high in the block, so at an idle or low rpm the cam and lifters don't get much oil on them and they wear out. I wish dodge would wise up and put remote squirters or something over the cam to solve this problem.
Internal oiling is very poor to the camshaft. Needs to be kept at a reasonably high RPM to sling oil from the crank. Factory programming is absolutely for fuel economy, transmission will do its best to keep you in the highest gear possible for the longest period of time. Best bet is to limit the maximum gear, to keep the RPM's between 1,700 - 2,200 RPM at a minimum.
@@AmericaFirstKorey imagine "engineering an engine" so poorly, that typical driving kills valvetrain. Domestic auto manufacturers have thoroughly bought into planned obsolescence, and cheapening every item to the point where the vehicle is going to make it 100k and just self destruct.
Since I currently own both a 2022 Challenger R/T and 2002 Camaro SS, it's interesting to see that the Gen4 5.7L Hemi beats the 5.7L LS1 handily. (See the LS1 video here: th-cam.com/video/uIKIB-z_xi0/w-d-xo.html ). The peak number comparison is (Gen IV) Hemi: 439 HP and 453-lb-ft (Gen III) LS1: 414 HP and 418-lb-ft (Gen III) Hemi: 381 HP and 418-lb-ft ** ** I used the numbers from the "better example of what the power curve normally looks like" for Gen III Hemi he showed at 3:37 It's also interesting to see the Gen IV 5.7L Hemi compared to those which Richard measured for the stock 6.0L LS2 (also a Gen IV engine) (See th-cam.com/video/Kc2_DEx3rxE/w-d-xo.html ). The peak numbers there were 465 HP and 455 lb-ft.
I know you say that the variable valve timing on the later ones are better. But just like the long Runners on the intake, that's relative. I prefer the Simplicity of a fixed camshaft instead of variable valve timing. To me, it's simpler to work on and program.
More head flow, good! More compression, good! How about putting the VVT back in the LY6 to show what goes on there? Of course this is a selfish question since I have one in my garage while working on rocker panels, etc. (typical ‘71 C10). I haven’t sprung for the cam yet, so this would be really good info. You’d have to tune it with the factory E38 and HP Tuners, probably keep the MAF, etc.
@@lopezcool976 the cam put me up to 402 hp and 403 tq to the wheels, but there’s some restriction there as my dyno curve completely flattens up top. My tuner was pretty sure it was the phase limiter. I’ll be replacing with a phaser lock soon here and re-dyno tuning to find out. My best quarter mile so far is a 13.2 (in 4100+ ft of DA, corrected to about a 12.5 ASL) with longtube headers and the cam as my only mods. My car is an M6.
So, like I asked, serious question, if I run a hrt stage one cam, prior to boost with the hellion sleeper. Meaning not changing exhaust heads but adding piston and ring gap. .008?. Will that be safe till I add boost?
Hi Richard, have you tested the Victor Edelbrock intake as well as the Edelbrock heads for the gen 3 hemi? I'm curious what the power difference would be from the OEM equipment.
The Edelbrock heads on a 5.7 , power wise are roughly the same as the BGE/Apache heads on a 5.7. All our testing was done on a build using an 08 block, actual Ci was 353,2 ( 3.957 X 3.59 ) test was OEM Apache(72cc chambers) right from FCA vs Eddy 61119 head with 73cc chamber. Intake was a 6.1SRT with a Fastman 84mm Throttle body. ECU was an 05 Ram 1500 using HPtuners. 1¾ headers 18 inch collector extension. 1st cam was Howards 786965-13 (In lift .626 Ex lift .600 231/237@.050 113LSA) installed at 107 Center line. Peak Hp for the Apache heads was 547@ 6400 RPMs Peak Tq was 488 at 5300RPMs Peak Hp for the Eddy 61119 head was 558@ 6500 RPMs, Peak Tq was 495 @ 5400RPMs Next test we opened up the Intake valve on the Apache to 2.165 same size as the Eddy heads, power of an average of 10 pulls went up to 550@6400 but Peak Tq fell 7lbs, on average. 2nd cam the Eddy’s came alive , cam was custom (In lift .640, Ex .665 , 268/268 @ .050 ,110lsa ) Peak HP for the Apache heads was 560@7000RPMs , while the Eddy 61119 head did 578@7000. Both heads fell off sharply with the 6.1 Intake, switched over to a Ritter Single plane, same 84mm TB used an “elbow” from Wilson Manifolds , the Eddy’s went 601 @ 7400 while the Apache’s topped out at 575@ 7100. The Edelbrock heads have a better Min Cross sectional area in the pushrod pinch area, which is why they made more Hp at the rpm they did it at. FWIW , we made the same power as the Apache’s and a 15ftlb advantage from 4500-6500 with a set of Eagle heads with a 2.155X6mm stem intake valve and a 1.63 exhaust valve. Only you can decide if the extra cost is worth 20-25 Hp. As for the Edelbrock Victor intake, most of the test we ran , it was worth about 15hp peak over the 6.1 intake, the advantage of the Victor is you can shorten the runners to get some more RPM out of them, The Victor manifold also has bosses cast in to the barrel for NOS nozzles
Question: on the topic of VVT what’s the benefit to a complete phaser lock/vvt delete kit versus the phaser limiter (limiting timing to +/-7)? I have both a limiter and a complete delete kit and I would like to know the pro’s/cons. Thanks in advance!
So can I do the late model 17 cam swap in a 19 rt challenger to get those power gains and which intake would I need to make it work a new scaf pack and mad controller for the runners ? Will it plug n okay in the 5.7rt challenger?
More gen 3 hemi stuff. Please
“Having more head is always a good idea”
New T shirt?
Thought someone would catch that
Glad I’m not the only one that snorted when I heard that lol
When an expert tells you "more head is always a good idea" you take his advice.
I would wear that shirt
Id really like to see the OEM 392 camshaft compared to other aftermarket camshafts when installed in a late model 5.7 HEMI. There is a lot of debate whether it is worth putting the 392 camshaft in a 5.7 and you could finally put this to bed by comparing dyno charts!
The Comp cam that Richard replaced the stock cam with on the first test is just a tiny bit bigger than the 392 cam.. so the 392 cam would obviously do the same curve wise for the motor - just not make as much peak torque/hp.
the factory 392 cam has a 220/230 duration split-just checked-stock 392 hemi cam is smaller in both lift and duration and lobe intensity
@@richardholdener1727 think you've also got different cams in the truck and cars (and auto vs stick).
@@richardholdener1727 Exactly and considering the Comp Cam you installed gave nearly identical down low numbers as the stock cam I would think if you are doing a cam swap and not trying to do something budget orientated that it would be better to just go with the Comp Cam.
ive tuned a ton of them with 392 cams, its worth it, the top end gains are huge. I'm actually tuning a 16 RT with a procharger and 6.4 cam right now. On 8 psi and long tubes its expected to make 575 at the wheels, it made 500 with blower only.
Damn thats a significant difference Lol
505 hp out of a cam only Hemi ! Jeeeeez !
The old cammed Hemi didnt do too bad either, 437 hp is no slouch.
Thanks
I watched this with 6 year old son and his only question was " How come he doesn't have to breath??"
Cos he is too busy working
No way 😭😭
Tell your son when we landed on this planet I took one big breathe and have not let it all out yet!
No time for breathing...more testing😉
@@richardholdener1727 Lol 😆. Reminds me of the first predator movie. I don’t have time bleed 🩸. Got time to duck. Thooomp. Booom !!
Would be nice to see a pre eagle block with eagle heads and maximum camshaft with the stock pistons and some 392 exhaust manifolds. It's what most are doing on a budget
Great video Richard, glad to see these Hemi dyno videos and to see someone actually use the variable intake and variable cam timing. People seem to just lock those out and forget about it.
I build these pretty regular here in Alabama. A Gen 3 hemi loves a good cam. I did a STG 3 in a 392, no other changes, stock exhaust, still has cats, etc only a cam and supporting springs and pushrods, picked up 54 rwhp... love my HEMIs
How much was it, would like to do something like that
Dale mullens where are you located in Alabama I’m trying to get a cam installed on my 6.1 and can’t find anyone to work on hemi
Can I hire you to work on my 5.7
Hell yeah
My 08 Hemi has variable cam lift...the more I drive it the more the lobes and roller lifters wear down!
Would love to see some 6.1 cam stuff. Can't seem to find good detailed cam content on the 6.1
I love my 6.1 hemi, it's very reliable, I pushed it to 160MPH and it still wanted more😅👌
I have the specs of the 6.1 cam according to the srt engineers
You have to love that variable runner length intake, that worked sweet.
Your videos have helped me with my customers at my job for being a customer service advisor. I'm more able to inform them about the motor in their vehicle. I've always been a motor guy. Thanks for your videos and keep it up 👍👍 💯
This goes to show that the engineers at dodge know what the hell they are doing, even in the early gen 3 hemis the aftermarket head engineers have a very hard time designing a better port than what comes from the factory and then the guys at dodge went and just made it even better
the late model "eagle" heads are fantastic, like you said the aftermarket head companies had a difficult time trying to make a better head. And honestly for the money aftermarket heads cost your better off lightly porting the factory units.
American manufactures have been getting a bum wrap for many years. Back in the late 80's, 90's I used to read online engine engineering inspectors rant "American engines are obsolete because they are still using timing chains and gears". I used to comment and say "and when they get all the issues worked out, there will be no more timing belts. All the research and development will be stolen and copied because you sure don't want a rubber belt operating those moving parts for any longer then 6 to 10 years". But I have to say, most people that own a foreign car follow the maintenance schedule like clock work.
@@Ed70Nova427 I've noticed that people that own foreign cars will buy extended warranties and always have their matinence done on time. Not to say people who buy domestics don't but some of the most clapped out vehicles that I've seen still putting around are american vehicles. Espcially the old trucks with the oldschool pushrod V8s, simple designs last forever it seems if you maintain them.
@@jaymoe5.7 You're absolutely right. Go to any parking lot and look for old cars and you will see some European but mostly American and maybe not in the best condition but that's what you'll find. It is difficult to find an 85 Camry or Honda almost zero Mitsubishi's and you'll find Datsun Z's. Again simple design.
What gave American products the black eye is the paint and plastics. Of course this was blamed on upper management and number cruncher's and some might be due to that. But 90% of the failure in chemical based products was because all American manufacturers had to use only EPA approved paints and plastics while the rest of the world can build and sell cars in this country using whatever product there engineers came up with. I remember most everyone saying "I will never buy another American product because they use cheep junk materials", but in fact it was more expensive and well documented in the engineering quality control data to be of lesser quality then the previous materials but had to be put into use due to the approval of the EPA. Vinyl is cheaper than the material they had to engineer and they were already using it so it was way more cost effective but it was band in automotive production in the early 80's. In 2008 in the bankruptcy of GM, the government had the EPA loosen the specifications and allow the use of European grade plastics and paints. Overnight all of the big three changed to the European grade and that is why if you go to an American car dealership today and look at the interiors you will think it was made by a company in Europe.
Anyway I own three Chevy's one Buick and one Pontiac at this time. I buy American as much as I can and turn down and or go without other's but its gotten to the point now that it's only a name on a box.
@@Ed70Nova427 yep thats exactly right, my 2011 dodge truck has a much nicer interior than my 2005 did, but I tell ya what, the sheet metal is waaayyy thinner than the body panels on my 79 Plymouth
please do more on a 6.4 hemi
Same I want to do more to my scatty automatty
The Late model hemi did better than I thought it would
Thank you Richard. I have to do a cam swap on my ram and this video is great information. Perfect timing.
Love it Richard! I’m currently building an early engine with late heads, pistons and rods. Looking forward to the bump in CR and flow while maintaining the more simple block and components!
Hemi stuff ! About time !!
More please
I had good luck with my 05 hemi put the bigger 6.1l heads that also bumps up compression running a thicker head gasket 10.8-1 have to run 91 6.1 cam and balancer and a 2015 5.7 hemi intake seems to work well
Ported Heads test on the late hemi, and 392 intake manifold upgrade💥🚀
Watched all your Gen 3 hemi videos and have your book about building them! Having a collection of Mopar engines sitting waiting for projects I’ve grown to love piecing together my Hemi for my 35 dodge pickup! Keep up the Mopar love!🤘🏽
Need any parts? I got some used 5.7 stuff laying around
MMMOOORE HEMI CONTEEENT MAAN , i love your videos thank you for them
Great mopar content Richard, the gen 3 motors have a lot of performance potential, keep it coming! 💪🔧🏎
Need to test the Holley mid-rise and a tall manifolds 👍🏼... Always good info thanks Richard
I notice you got a lapel mic finally, your listeners approve.
I've had the mic for a year now
So happy to see some Gen 3 Hemi love but so disappointed to not see apples to apples testing. The cam specs should have been much closer to each other. Still happy to see some Hemi testing of any kind though. Thank you and keep it up. Lots of Hemi guys out here watching your channel 👍👍
With eagle heads, high compression, and a cam, a pre-eagle hemi can put down some good power. Mine put down 413HP/418TQ with eagle heads, ebay longtubes, and a Comp cams Thumpr cam, and a stock eagle intake manifold, stock airbox.
Good stuff, can probably go with something with a bit more lift, that cam is pretty mild, only 510 lift
In my experience most of the intakes have valve seats in them
is it that common ? I remember a collegue that had to rebuild clients 5.7 twice, that was quite a mystery.
Yup and the aluminum that was being shaved off the cylinder head as the seat moved around. The compression and power stroke would blow all that stuff back up into the intake manifold and over time it gathers and really makes a mess. Then of course the seat gets kicked out and that's when the customer bring you the car.
If you own a shop, the best thing to do is replace the manifold with a new one. I have to say one of the mechanics in the shop reused a manifold of his own but he spent hours flushing and shaking with gasoline and washing in soap and water. That was a couple years ago and he is still driving it, so I guess it has a chance to work.
You want to see something scary. Poor some gasoline in a brand new intake, shake it around and poor it out. Sometimes you see black plastic strips or shavings and not only in the Chrysler manifolds.
I've seen Gen 3 Hemi's with a cam run like 2020 scat pack Hemi's!!!!
Richard, please do the 6.4L intake swap, a lot of people will be interested in this!
I frikkin love your videos man. Good job.
Richard, love your vids and insight to all of this Hocus pocus engine magic. :).
Ever thought about dyno'ing that late model 5.7, only using a 6.4L cam in it instead? That should preserve some of the low speed torque (through the ability to keep VVT happening)?
Great vid. I've got an early gen III hemi, but now I'm thinking I need to find a later Gen III...so thanks for that. With aftermarket fuel-injection for early engines become more commonplace, one wonders if we'll ever see a dual-runner composite intake for engines like the SBC/BBC's?
Over 500hp out of a 5.7 is pretty impressive. Is the cam swap on these as simple as an LS?
The Gen 3 Hemi and LS are really close in design, and have similar problems in the valvetrain.
Unlike the LS, you have to pull the heads to do a cam swap....meh.....Im surprised no one has come out with a kit to swap the cams like the LS. Make life simpler.
No need to pull the heads to swap a cam in the newer hemis either. Done then multuple times without pulling the heads.
@@hoost3056 Heads are totally different. Hemi has different valve layout, shaft rocker arms and dual plugs. You can change the cam without pulling heads if you don't change the lifters.
yep-with good trays (even better angle than LS for staying put)
can we see a intake test on the gen 3 hemi holley has some intakes and a brand new high ram vs ritter/dual plan
Looks like that cam would rock in an 8spd Ram. Have a buddy in the 11s with the newer gen Hemi and he traps about 117 mph.
Lol, maybe... If all you plan on doing with it is drag race...
But in that case, anyone with a real race setup will still blow your doors off.
@@slomo1010 Well, I have never owned or even driven one, so I'm not actually in a position to say. But I have heard a lot of good things about them (regarding power) from others who do drive them.
As for Fiat, yes, it does seem like everything they touch turns into ****...
As usual, more questions come from a good test.... Pistons that allow full VVT but don't sacrifice compression along with as much cam as is practical for a street application. Since it's really just VCT that doesn't allow a lot more cam but still. Great stuff!
I have a 2017 durango r/t and a 07 power wagon and this just confirmed what I feel when I drive them
I thought the Durango is a rated for 360hp. If this video is right it makes a good deal more than the rating
@@corruption1724 it is 360 but that's threw the stock exhaust and factory air box with a very conservative tune
WOW! That was nice data right there..
Thank you again Richard.
Ed D
THANK DAVID, STEVE AND STEVE FROM ENGINE MASTERS!
More late model vvt hemi stuff please cover the truck 6.4 and the car 6.4 and the differences in years that had a BGE block.
I have one of each of these. My VVT is a '14 but I'm not sure it has the variable intake runner. I do know that the 2008 car is more fun to drive and is more responsive to throttle inputs. I tend to think it is also a bit quicker in 0 to 60 and quarter mile times.
The '08 car is about 400 pounds lighter than the '14 so that may be some of it. Both cars (AWD 300's) have the 5 speed automatic transmission and 3.07 ratio but the '14 also has taller tires.
So iv ran Rams at the track for years and I can say this. I had a 2004 5.7 truck. 2wd short bed standard can. Ran like a 15.2 my crew cab 2017 ran 14.6 both had cold air intakes and a flowmaster muffler. I like the 17 ram a lot better for performance.
Huge fan of Gen III Hemi!!! thank you - On a live video cast or posted video, you eluded to a future Mopar 360/5.9L Magnum test - when can we expect to see that?
YES-ITS ON THE TO-DO LIST
Could you do a Hemi head test as you did for the LS motors? Like test the Thitek Heads vs Edlebrocks and Ported OEMs to see if they are worth it?
Interestingly, the 1956 354 Hemi in the 300B makes similar power through the manifolds and 9:1
it was rated at a similar power-not sure what testing actually shows
Thank you for doing a Hemi video! If you ever feel inspired, I would love to see an early 235 HP Chrysler 4.7 with the infamous 2008+ factory cams and intake manifold swap! Rumor mill says they add power to the older engines but doesn’t seem anyone has done a dyno run after making those upgrades.
I believe the active dual runner intake is a 6.4 intake manifold not a 5.7 intake but can be made to work with the 5.7. I have been seeing many tuners are now deactivating the VVT because it actually causes problems and less hp. My understanding it is mainly for emissions and not an advantage for performance.
This test uses the eagle truck 5.7 manifold which is functionally identical to the car 6.4 intake.
Would you be up to doing some injector end angle testing? Be great to see what gains could be made by moving them around with different duty cycles to also show how much it helps if you are only using 50 duty cycle so you have more room to move things around.
Hi Richard. I love your videos and have learned a lot from them. Based on your extensive knowledge and experience, will you please comment on the cause of lifter roller failures on Gen III hemis, and what can be done to cure/prevent the problem.
I have not had that happen
Alright, now test the holley hi ram for the hemi.
Sniper?
@@homefront3162 holley released the hi ram for the hemi recently
What about big bang on all 3rd gen hemis. Early 5.7, 6.1, late model 5.7, 6.4 and 6.2
Awesome i’ve been looking for a good cam for my GEN three hemi‘s I get a lot of them
Try putting the eagle cylinder head on the pre eagle engine
8:00 So is a stock 5.7 after 2017 making these kinds of numbers? Looking at a new Durango R/T and it's rated for 360 just wondering if Dodge underrated these power ratings?
different test procedure
I think those numbers for the early Hemi 5.7 stuff are about right. I only see stock examples put down around 275-280ish on our DynoJet. I don’t see many early 5.7s break the 300whp mark until we start playing with the tune.
My 06 Ram was 285/301 on a Dynojet with long tubes, dual 2.5" exhaust with a X-pipe and stock tune.
I wonder how the older hemi would do with the newer intake manifold
This is not confirmed but i got a few people talking about this:
The older gen3 bottom end was built much tougher than the latest gens which means less to upgrade if you want to boost them.
So ideally a gen3 5.7 with Magnum manifold and Eagle heads would the the perfect starting point for stupid numbers once you boost it.
Notched pistons, a 110 LSA, with those same duration specs, would be perfect.
Late model 5.7 truck intake manifold vs late model 6.4 truck intake manifold. Please. Love all the great content. Joined for the LS stuff stay for the variety.
The 6.4 truck intake is best the 5.7 truck and 6.4 car are about equal.
The newer head has a different combustion chamber as well
Very well done Richard!
I'd like to see a Gen 1 Chrysler Hemi 331. They're so rare and unusual and heavy and expensive! I don't think I've ever seen anybody Dyno a street built one. Maybe even a commando 273!
Good info...I have a 5th gen Ram with the Hemi and it's just as good as my 2011 Hemi was but with Etorque!
I can't find this cam from Comp?(the late/eagle one) Part #, does it retain MDS?
This is weirdly intriguing....
Thanks for the info.
Wow, I learned so much! Thank you.
how about a 6.4 intake and cam on the vvt 5.7? It should allow for full vvt travel that way.
I loved this test. I feel like ive seen you test both runners of an avaiator 4v intake but it may have been an fr500. Another interesting car that uses similar tech is the lincoln continental. It uses the single port c cobra heads, while still using a split runner intake. They dont use a butterfly valve however to switch runners so would it be safe to assume the air chooses the best path on its own?
They do have a valve.
@@michaelangelo8001 They do not have a valve in the c headed cars. It's a butterfly free plate that transitions the single port c head to the twin port mark intakes. The b headed cars have the runner valve but not the c headed car. I've verified this on my own car and several from scrap yards I've pulled parts from.
@@madmod I'm not aware of the different heads. All I know is that I have three Mark VIII engines, and they all have the valve.
@@michaelangelo8001 the continental is a fwd, 4.6 dohc similar to the mark viii. They were equipped with twin port heads like cobras were. The 2000+ models have c cobra heads with single ports, and used twin port mark viii intake manifolds. Google a 00 continental engine bay to see how they shoehorned it sideways in there. Ive got a 0-80 in mine on my channel too.
@@madmod Yeah, I've seen them.
Actually I had forgotten they ever existed. More or less, a Ford Taurus with a V8.
When you said Continental, I thought you meant the Mark VIII.
Boost em'! Let's see the results!
Are the lifters oil ported over the roller and needle bearings on the gen IV hemi, or is it the same problematic lifter designs as on the gen III hemi?
So with an aftermarket cam it makes as much power as an LY6 with an LS9 cam.
I really want you to test a 5.7 with the 6.4 cam, and then the 6.4 cam and intake.
@Richard Holdener, if I have a 2006 charger rt and want to make that same power that your talking about, so i was wondering what would be the best cam set up to have. Thanks Dan
ported heads and cam(the new lst cams work well)
I have an 06 Hemi in a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Can you recommend a good cam that would increase power by 100hp plus give it a nice lopy idle. What other modifications would you recommend to go with the cam swap. The Jeep hasc120,000 miles on it. I have the 5.7 Hemi, 5 speed Quadratrak transmission with 373 gears.
You might want to upgrade the valve seats before they fall out like mine did
100 horse!?!?....O you will definitely have a VERY CHOPPY LOPE😂😂😂🤣
@@captainobvious5993 what did you upgrade to? My car has 180k not sure if previous owner already changed valves should I change them?
@@H1storybr3akdown just disable the mds system and after highway travel let it idle for 30 seconds before shutting it down
@@captainobvious5993 how do I disable mds on an 06 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7, I can’t find a tuner
Idk but my 2017 Ram 🐏 got some power for a big truck 🙌🏾💪🏽💯that’s enough for me! I’m not racing or nothing!
Richard, can a late model dual-runner intake be put on an early engine? Getting more compression is pretty simple from early heads, but that dual runner is soooo interesting. Great video btw.
not sure on port and mounting hole fitment
Richard Holdener Quote of the day,
"That station wagon looking thing".
Never knew how valuable the intake was on my station wagon lookin thing lmao glad I kept it around
Got an 08 engine, last week, ordered that exact cam you used, glad I did - although the early gen 3 is lethargic compared to the much better tech hemi, that cam really woke it up, even in the lower RPMs. My heads are getting milled about .010 and with the new pistons, I calculate I'll be almost 10:1, so for a budget build, I think I'm going to be pretty happy with it. Funny thing is used later model 5.7's really aren't that much more money now, but I already had the engine, so I'm using it. Great video!
Did that camshaft end up giving your engine a chopped idle because of the lower LSA?
So a comp vvt cam I could make those gainz? Adding a pair of longtube headers like kooks? What can of power am I adding to my charger ....?
Enjoying my HHP Stage 2R in a WK1 SRT8
OEM hemi lifters are failing left and right, the shop I work at has been replacing cam and lifters in Ram trucks almost once a week, most have 80,000-120,000. The tiny local dealer stocks 6 cams, 96 lifters, and the parts guy says they sell at least one set every day over the counter, and two or three internal every day. I think I would consider aftermarket lifters if I was building one.
the reason that happens is because the cam is set very high in the block, so at an idle or low rpm the cam and lifters don't get much oil on them and they wear out. I wish dodge would wise up and put remote squirters or something over the cam to solve this problem.
Internal oiling is very poor to the camshaft. Needs to be kept at a reasonably high RPM to sling oil from the crank. Factory programming is absolutely for fuel economy, transmission will do its best to keep you in the highest gear possible for the longest period of time. Best bet is to limit the maximum gear, to keep the RPM's between 1,700 - 2,200 RPM at a minimum.
@@AmericaFirstKorey imagine "engineering an engine" so poorly, that typical driving kills valvetrain. Domestic auto manufacturers have thoroughly bought into planned obsolescence, and cheapening every item to the point where the vehicle is going to make it 100k and just self destruct.
@@jamesgeorge6551 absolutely sad, I run my 6.4 (2500) at 2,000 RPM typically, just manage the gear selection (which also disables MDS).
Since I currently own both a 2022 Challenger R/T and 2002 Camaro SS, it's interesting to see that the Gen4 5.7L Hemi beats the 5.7L LS1 handily. (See the LS1 video here: th-cam.com/video/uIKIB-z_xi0/w-d-xo.html ). The peak number comparison is
(Gen IV) Hemi: 439 HP and 453-lb-ft
(Gen III) LS1: 414 HP and 418-lb-ft
(Gen III) Hemi: 381 HP and 418-lb-ft **
** I used the numbers from the "better example of what the power curve normally looks like" for Gen III Hemi he showed at 3:37
It's also interesting to see the Gen IV 5.7L Hemi compared to those which Richard measured for the stock 6.0L LS2 (also a Gen IV engine) (See th-cam.com/video/Kc2_DEx3rxE/w-d-xo.html ). The peak numbers there were 465 HP and 455 lb-ft.
you are comparing different generation motors
@@richardholdener1727 Agreed.
I know you say that the variable valve timing on the later ones are better. But just like the long Runners on the intake, that's relative. I prefer the Simplicity of a fixed camshaft instead of variable valve timing. To me, it's simpler to work on and program.
Great video 👍
More head flow, good! More compression, good! How about putting the VVT back in the LY6 to show what goes on there? Of course this is a selfish question since I have one in my garage while working on rocker panels, etc. (typical ‘71 C10). I haven’t sprung for the cam yet, so this would be really good info. You’d have to tune it with the factory E38 and HP Tuners, probably keep the MAF, etc.
Id be interested in this as well. I got an 08 suburban 2500 with the ly6. I've heard locking out the vvt is better but I don't believe that.
Never clicked on a video so fast! Haha. I agree, a cam really wakes up the 5.7. I put a comp cams hrt stage 2 in mine and it screams now!
Me to lol has a nice chop to it how much hp did u gain and whats your 1/4 mile
@@lopezcool976 the cam put me up to 402 hp and 403 tq to the wheels, but there’s some restriction there as my dyno curve completely flattens up top. My tuner was pretty sure it was the phase limiter. I’ll be replacing with a phaser lock soon here and re-dyno tuning to find out. My best quarter mile so far is a 13.2 (in 4100+ ft of DA, corrected to about a 12.5 ASL) with longtube headers and the cam as my only mods. My car is an M6.
What springs you guys running
@@TrackPackRT dammn sounds good sounds like its very strong
@@hankautomotive mine are the springs that came in the kit from comp cams. Don’t recall the specs.
So, like I asked, serious question, if I run a hrt stage one cam, prior to boost with the hellion sleeper. Meaning not changing exhaust heads but adding piston and ring gap. .008?. Will that be safe till I add boost?
Can you please please do the l83 cam swap to see power gains? would love to see LT gains from cam swaps i seen when u boosted the l83 using nitrous
With a Hemi sometimes it tells you it needs a cam swap .. tick tick
Hemi in a Nova? Why not?
I agree, everyone puts chevy engines in everything else. How about switching it up and put something other than a gm engine in the nova.
@@jasonwalls1277 Blasphemi is a tri5 with a hemi, think he just blew another one up.
@@bradmaas6875 yeah, he did.
You want it to sound like a 69 F100??
@@stevebates5973 What's wrong with a '69 F100?
Hi Richard, have you tested the Victor Edelbrock intake as well as the Edelbrock heads for the gen 3 hemi? I'm curious what the power difference would be from the OEM equipment.
NO SIR
The Edelbrock heads on a 5.7 , power wise are roughly the same as the BGE/Apache heads on a 5.7. All our testing was done on a build using an 08 block, actual Ci was 353,2 ( 3.957 X 3.59 ) test was OEM Apache(72cc chambers) right from FCA vs Eddy 61119 head with 73cc chamber. Intake was a 6.1SRT with a Fastman 84mm Throttle body. ECU was an 05 Ram 1500 using HPtuners. 1¾ headers 18 inch collector extension.
1st cam was Howards 786965-13 (In lift .626 Ex lift .600 231/237@.050 113LSA) installed at 107 Center line.
Peak Hp for the Apache heads was 547@ 6400 RPMs Peak Tq was 488 at 5300RPMs
Peak Hp for the Eddy 61119 head was 558@ 6500 RPMs, Peak Tq was 495 @ 5400RPMs
Next test we opened up the Intake valve on the Apache to 2.165 same size as the Eddy heads, power of an average of 10 pulls went up to 550@6400 but Peak Tq fell 7lbs, on average.
2nd cam the Eddy’s came alive , cam was custom (In lift .640, Ex .665 , 268/268 @ .050 ,110lsa )
Peak HP for the Apache heads was 560@7000RPMs , while the Eddy 61119 head did 578@7000.
Both heads fell off sharply with the 6.1 Intake, switched over to a Ritter Single plane, same 84mm TB used an “elbow” from Wilson Manifolds , the Eddy’s went 601 @ 7400 while the Apache’s topped out at 575@ 7100.
The Edelbrock heads have a better Min Cross sectional area in the pushrod pinch area, which is why they made more Hp at the rpm they did it at.
FWIW , we made the same power as the Apache’s and a 15ftlb advantage from 4500-6500 with a set of Eagle heads with a 2.155X6mm stem intake valve and a 1.63 exhaust valve.
Only you can decide if the extra cost is worth 20-25 Hp.
As for the Edelbrock Victor intake, most of the test we ran , it was worth about 15hp peak over the 6.1 intake, the advantage of the Victor is you can shorten the runners to get some more RPM out of them, The Victor manifold also has bosses cast in to the barrel for NOS nozzles
Unfortunatly for the cars the only dual lenght intake is the 6.4 srt manifold.
great video ...would the 06 hemi intake mainifold fit the 09 and newer eagle heads..?..
Not without adapters but the 09+ are much better manifolds.
@@morganmccombs1351 ok thank you
Question: on the topic of VVT what’s the benefit to a complete phaser lock/vvt delete kit versus the phaser limiter (limiting timing to +/-7)? I have both a limiter and a complete delete kit and I would like to know the pro’s/cons. Thanks in advance!
THE ADJUSTMENT HELPED ON THIS CAM
Only reason to lock is if you can't use the factory computer to control cam timing.
@@snek9353 ah solid copy! Thank you thank you.
So I have a non vvt but its the only thing I see online for the rebuild kit just vvt will it work
I knew dodge underrated the power of these engines...these big bricks getup and move with these hot little engines
Thats it, my mind is made up! My 2017 WK2 5.7 Hemi. What is the recommended Performance Cam? Texas?
This confirms that I really need to install my window switch to activate my runner valve in my hemi swap. 4900rpm it is.
Stock enable is 4800 fwiw.
Make sure you have the active runners.
So can I do the late model 17 cam swap in a 19 rt challenger to get those power gains and which intake would I need to make it work a new scaf pack and mad controller for the runners ? Will it plug n okay in the 5.7rt challenger?
no idea
What episode of engine masters was the 2017 5.7 gen3 dyno run with dual runner intake?
I'm not sure
I guess I don't need to watch that episode of Engine Masters when it comes out now.