Used Permatex on my upper build, shot thousands of rounds in the rain and in winter hunting in the snow with it, going inside and out into cold and hot elements. Just today took the barrel out of the upper and the Permatex was still on the threads of the upper just like I applied them 10 years earlier. I'm not buying into the galvanic corrosion theory.
Aeroshell only for grease. Heads up guys- break and other greases from auto parts use graphite and copper mostly. Aluminum and Stainless or regular Steel will corrode. All they need is a little heat to start the process. If your nut wont time it’s because you should season the threads. Three full times and use Aeroshell grease. Aero from airplane and shell because it’s a Shell product specifically for aluminum airplanes.
I have found that the best practice is to coat all the threads of the nut or bolt evenly, and not just put the anti seize in one spot. If it is just in one spot the anti seize compound will not be picked up and distributed evenly.
I just use a high temp grease and put it on the threads and go that route. I'm not sure if it is correct but it seems to work and is super easy to take off later on. I only ever shot one barrel out so I guess my sample is the sum of 1 though.
One caution though about anti seize. It will change your torque readings drastically. I learned this the hard way many years ago when I had the not so bright idea of using it on some tractor cylinder head bolts. I stretched a couple of them into uselessness and never came close to the specified torque.
This why you re-torque fasteners multiple times. Electrical work requires we use an oxide inhibitor that sometimes contains copper, aluminum, and some of it even has silver in it. We torque to spec, energize the system, come back in two days retorque to spec, then in a week to 10 days do a final torque of the fastener and mark the heads with hash marks and a date. We usually use the date of the final torque to spec. Sometimes we lie, if we didn't get to the job on the day we were supposed to.
@@Satchmoeddie A gun barrel may be different due to the really thick, strong cross-section, but what you describe here (re-torquing) doesn't solve the problem that Pete13 mentioned. In fact, it would make it worse. There is a relationship between torque and bolt tension but it depends on quite a few things. The most dominant factor is the friction between the bolt and nut. Adding a lubricant like anti-seize changes this relationship significantly - and the effect is to INCREASE the amount of bolt tension for a given amount of torque. Bolts will usually have a "dry" torque recommendation and a "lubricated" torque recommendation and the lubed one is LOWER because going to the "dry" amount would likely yield the bolt due to excess tension. If you tighten a bolt to a torque spec and come back later and find that you can turn it significantly further before reaching the same torque, that probably means that the bolt has yielded and stretched - and if you keep repeating this (re-torquing), the bolt will likely snap.
I am a mechanic of 30 years by profession. I have used anti-seize in lots of different applications over the years. Most specially when dis-similar metals are involved. Most specially when its aluminum and steel. I haven't been into the AR craze for long but I have been puzzled but this theory that you cant use Anti-Seize on the barrel nut because of this galvanic corrosion they talk about. I understand that the actual military assembly manual requires you to use a spec grease for assembly, and that is fine if that is what a person wants to use. But I'm not buying into the galvanic corrosion theory. JMO PS. My opinion and $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee in most convenience stores.
Forums say there ant seize Could have graphite or other things in it that Could be bad for the metals - so they say to use 33MS grease. I wish we could get a straight scientific answer on this one.
you’ll shoot the barrel out and replace it long before galvanic corrosion becomes an issue. And if you don’t, and never need to change the barrel, you’ll never know you had corrosion in the threads anyway.
Forums say there ant seize Could have graphite or other things in it that Could be bad for the metals - so they say to use 33MS grease. I wish we could get a straight scientific answer on this one.
If you're worried LocTite does make a anti seize for aluminum threads. LB8044 ZN, It's zinc based for aluminum on aluminum, and aluminum on dissimilar metals. A little harder to find but it does exist.
Terrible general policy. Anti seize reduces the equivalent torque by roughly 20% I use it all the time but am very conscious about not using it on things like plated spark plugs that only take 11ft lb.
Don't use copper anti-seize on a Stainless Steel Barrel. Quote from Loctite site: "However, it is important to remember that while many compounds exist for stainless steel, copper anti-seize on stainless steel will create inter-crystalline corrosion which can cause parts to crack or break when under heavy loads."
I have read that copper and aluminum should not be in contact with one another as galvanic corrosion can occur. So when you talked about galvanic reaction between the steel nut and the aluminum receiver not being an issue, what about the copper in the anti seize and the aluminum receiver?
If you use a copper anti-seize on stainless parts, be careful. Copper on stainless steel can create intercrystalline corrosion, which can lead stainless parts to fracture.
Some barrels such as balistic advantage, use nickel boron on the end of the barrel. That goes into the reciever. Just that parts coated. I guess to prevent galvanic corrosion. Although they claim a tighter fit. Which is true, for improved accuracy. Although receivers are aluminum.
Speaking of barrels, I have a Mossberg 4X4 in .270 and wonder if the barrel can be changed to a better (not factory) contour. I've only ever changed Savage barrels.
Can you use normal automotive anti seize ? Like the silver stuff you use on bolts to keep them from rusting together ? Or does it have to be gun specific
Copper stuff is better. Holds up to higher temps. Just what a barrel does and needs. Only thing though is when you torque the nut to spec.The anti seize will throw off the torque wrench. You should torque to spec twice and bump it up 5 ft lbs more on the last click. Over 30 years on working on everything. From cars to forklifts to modded Xbox controllers😄
We recommend using a copper based anti-seize because it helps negate the effects of galvanic corrosion which is caused by dissimilar metals that come in contact with each other, such as the steel barrel nut and the aluminum threads on your upper. Even though the upper is hard coat anodized, some of the anodizing tends to come off during the barrel nut torquing process, exposing some of the raw aluminum threads. We do not recommend grease or aluminum anti-seize in this case.
C5-A Copper based anti-seize does have graphite in it, but not enough to cause corrosion if coming in contact with bare aluminum and certain types of moisture. Graphite is not corrosive when in contact with aluminum, but in the presence of chloride ions (specifically salt water) it can cause galvanic corrosion to occur. The hard coat anodizing will help prevent the chloride ions from reaching the aluminum and the copper based anti-seize adds more protection as well.
I had a slight panic that the 10.3" barrel assembly i recently purchased had the barrel nut installed wrong, but then I figured it was probably for a free float lol. the assembly didn't come with the sling swivel like it was supposed to and I just contacted brownells about it today and I was thinking "great, guess I'm going to have to complain about that too"
Aaaaand that’s why you use Aeroshell 33MS anti seize. It has no graphite. The great thing about the problem of “taking care of aluminum”...is that the aeronautics industry have already taken care of that. Because taking care of aluminum aircraft is supremely important.
@@matthewnelson2690 US military (all branches) use shell grease for barrel and nut. They do not use antiseaze. So you tell me what studies/pictures. Uncle Sam has been using AR/M16 since the late 50s
@@animalmother556x45 and aviation doesn’t use Aeroshell lol. The most common is MIL-T-5544, which contains graphite. There’s also a less-common zinc and petrolatum formula that’s used on occasion.
Not an expert or even near it on metals. Personnel experience in Maintenance of Food processing equipment for 50 years. I have so many times went to change out a Gear reducer with Aluminum mountings feet that was attached to Stainless steel equipment and have all 4 bolts removed and the gear reducer would still be attached to the machine. Sometimes I had to take a hammer and thin chisel to separate them. Always much worse in a hot steamy environment. I tried different ( but not all) greases and Anti seize but nothing seemed to work.
*** First off the wrench should be installed on the nut correctly as in turning it 180 degrees. The handle of the wrench should be forward of the install pulling the nut down not pushing the nut.
Great thing about science, in this case chemistry, is that it is true whether you buy into it or not. Use anti seize, for none other than the reason people regularly talk about their AR being their "shit hits the fan" gun. If you are 25 years in the future and gotta change your barrel and you rip your barrel off and the upper threads come off with the nut your gonna regret "not buying into the "theory". Also all of you say theory when you mean hypothesis.
While this is a good tip, it would be better if he followed basic safety and oriented the wrench in the correct manner. You know, in case it were to slip off under load? His barrel wrench should have been oriented in the other direction to tighten that nut.
Why did he put the barrel nut on backwards? I mean, obviously he isn't doing this as an actual install since he forgot the delta ring but is there a reason he put it on backwards?
@@jetjaguarXP I see now that it is not a barrel nut for a delta ring assembly. If it was, the teeth on the barrel nut would be facing forward, not aft. The barrel nut must be one of those proprietary ones for a normal free float hand guard that clamps on as it lacks the groove for the snap ring.
the best part is, when they come to take your guns, they can't take that one because it's got anti seize.
True story.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lol
i see whatcha did there.🤑
Used Permatex on my upper build, shot thousands of rounds in the rain and in winter hunting in the snow with it, going inside and out into cold and hot elements. Just today took the barrel out of the upper and the Permatex was still on the threads of the upper just like I applied them 10 years earlier. I'm not buying into the galvanic corrosion theory.
Did you use Permatex anti seize or another flavor ?
Did you use the graphite permatex ?
I use what the M16 armorer’s manual calls for GMD, aka high temperature moly grease. You can pick up equivalent grease at any auto parts store.
You also can get enticies at any part store I use the spark plug one.
This is a good tip. Thanks for posting it. (I actually have been doing this for a long time.)
I've just always used high temp wheel bearing grease, because that's what I have laying around. Idk if it's correct but it seems to work well.
Aeroshell only for grease. Heads up guys- break and other greases from auto parts use graphite and copper mostly. Aluminum and Stainless or regular Steel will corrode. All they need is a little heat to start the process. If your nut wont time it’s because you should season the threads. Three full times and use Aeroshell grease. Aero from airplane and shell because it’s a Shell product specifically for aluminum airplanes.
I have found that the best practice is to coat all the threads of the nut or bolt evenly, and not just put the anti seize in one spot. If it is just in one spot the anti seize compound will not be picked up and distributed evenly.
I just use a high temp grease and put it on the threads and go that route. I'm not sure if it is correct but it seems to work and is super easy to take off later on. I only ever shot one barrel out so I guess my sample is the sum of 1 though.
One caution though about anti seize. It will change your torque readings drastically. I learned this the hard way many years ago when I had the not so bright idea of using it on some tractor cylinder head bolts. I stretched a couple of them into uselessness and never came close to the specified torque.
This why you re-torque fasteners multiple times. Electrical work requires we use an oxide inhibitor that sometimes contains copper, aluminum, and some of it even has silver in it. We torque to spec, energize the system, come back in two days retorque to spec, then in a week to 10 days do a final torque of the fastener and mark the heads with hash marks and a date. We usually use the date of the final torque to spec. Sometimes we lie, if we didn't get to the job on the day we were supposed to.
@@Satchmoeddie A gun barrel may be different due to the really thick, strong cross-section, but what you describe here (re-torquing) doesn't solve the problem that Pete13 mentioned. In fact, it would make it worse. There is a relationship between torque and bolt tension but it depends on quite a few things. The most dominant factor is the friction between the bolt and nut. Adding a lubricant like anti-seize changes this relationship significantly - and the effect is to INCREASE the amount of bolt tension for a given amount of torque. Bolts will usually have a "dry" torque recommendation and a "lubricated" torque recommendation and the lubed one is LOWER because going to the "dry" amount would likely yield the bolt due to excess tension. If you tighten a bolt to a torque spec and come back later and find that you can turn it significantly further before reaching the same torque, that probably means that the bolt has yielded and stretched - and if you keep repeating this (re-torquing), the bolt will likely snap.
I am a mechanic of 30 years by profession. I have used anti-seize in lots of different applications over the years. Most specially when dis-similar metals are involved. Most specially when its aluminum and steel. I haven't been into the AR craze for long but I have been puzzled but this theory that you cant use Anti-Seize on the barrel nut because of this galvanic corrosion they talk about. I understand that the actual military assembly manual requires you to use a spec grease for assembly, and that is fine if that is what a person wants to use. But I'm not buying into the galvanic corrosion theory. JMO PS. My opinion and $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee in most convenience stores.
Forums say there ant seize Could have graphite or other things in it that Could be bad for the metals - so they say to use 33MS grease. I wish we could get a straight scientific answer on this one.
The answer is, Permatex didn’t win the bid, so it’s not milspec
you’ll shoot the barrel out and replace it long before galvanic corrosion becomes an issue. And if you don’t, and never need to change the barrel, you’ll never know you had corrosion in the threads anyway.
Forums say there ant seize Could have graphite or other things in it that Could be bad for the metals - so they say to use 33MS grease. I wish we could get a straight scientific answer on this one.
i think graphite is pretty inert as a mineral.
But its probably the stuff with it
I like Steve.
Oh my god, finally I have my answer answered!
Big thank you!!
If you're worried LocTite does make a anti seize for aluminum threads.
LB8044 ZN, It's zinc based for aluminum on aluminum, and aluminum on dissimilar metals.
A little harder to find but it does exist.
Permeatex also makes an aluminum anti seize which is way cheaper and easier to find
I use Permatex anti seiz lubricant (the grey stuff) on every nut or bolt that requires torque. Barrel nuts especially.
Spot on man, me two. Never had a problem with that stuff and I use it everywhere
Terrible general policy. Anti seize reduces the equivalent torque by roughly 20% I use it all the time but am very conscious about not using it on things like plated spark plugs that only take 11ft lb.
Don't use copper anti-seize on a Stainless Steel Barrel. Quote from Loctite site: "However, it is important to remember that while many compounds exist for stainless steel, copper anti-seize on stainless steel will create inter-crystalline corrosion which can cause parts to crack or break when under heavy loads."
I have read that copper and aluminum should not be in contact with one another as galvanic corrosion can occur. So when you talked about galvanic reaction between the steel nut and the aluminum receiver not being an issue, what about the copper in the anti seize and the aluminum receiver?
Good simple information thanks
If you use a copper anti-seize on stainless parts, be careful. Copper on stainless steel can create intercrystalline corrosion, which can lead stainless parts to fracture.
Some barrels such as balistic advantage, use nickel boron on the end of the barrel. That goes into the reciever. Just that parts coated. I guess to prevent galvanic corrosion. Although they claim a tighter fit. Which is true, for improved accuracy. Although receivers are aluminum.
I just put a Lil bit of astro glide on it. slides right in
You've seen this happen on a gun?
Super. Tell me about the vice you are using. What’s it’s product name/or number. Semper Fi
great tip! thanks
Thanks!!
The three loctites mentioned show graphite in them which can cause galvanic corrosion on the aluminum of the ar upper is that correct?
Speaking of barrels, I have a Mossberg 4X4 in .270 and wonder if the barrel can be changed to a better (not factory) contour. I've only ever changed Savage barrels.
Can you use normal automotive anti seize ? Like the silver stuff you use on bolts to keep them from rusting together ? Or does it have to be gun specific
I used white lithium. Seems fine so far
I installed my barrel nut without anti-seize or grease, do you think I need to get it loosened up apply some on there
Copper stuff is better. Holds up to higher temps. Just what a barrel does and needs. Only thing though is when you torque the nut to spec.The anti seize will throw off the torque wrench. You should torque to spec twice and bump it up 5 ft lbs more on the last click. Over 30 years on working on everything. From cars to forklifts to modded Xbox controllers😄
wrong, u reduce the torque when using anti sieze
Bel-Ray Waterproof Grease
That's what i use
Any idea of what wrench he is using? I need to install a reverse barrel nut, nut prongs towards the receiver, unknown brand but MI style.
What brand of anti-seize? I’ve heard to avoid those with graphite. Is that true?
How is this better than grease? I always grease my threads and barrel extension shoulder to reduce friction when tightening.
What’s that anti seize you use in this video?
Hi Brownells, I would like to know what Barrel nut was used in this video and if it is stocked at Brownells.
It appears to be the Midwest Industries Gen2 that comes with the handguard.
Thanks Caleb
Can I use aluminum anti seize
We recommend using C5-A copper based anti-seize. :)
Brownells, Inc. ok but what's is the diff. What would be better grease or the anti seize I have aluminum kind
We recommend using a copper based anti-seize because it helps negate the effects of galvanic corrosion which is caused by dissimilar metals that come in contact with each other, such as the steel barrel nut and the aluminum threads on your upper. Even though the upper is hard coat anodized, some of the anodizing tends to come off during the barrel nut torquing process, exposing some of the raw aluminum threads. We do not recommend grease or aluminum anti-seize in this case.
Brownells, Inc. -That copper loctite anti seize has graphite in it, doesn't graphite corrode aluminum or no?
C5-A Copper based anti-seize does have graphite in it, but not enough to cause corrosion if coming in contact with bare aluminum and certain types of moisture. Graphite is not corrosive when in contact with aluminum, but in the presence of chloride ions (specifically salt water) it can cause galvanic corrosion to occur. The hard coat anodizing will help prevent the chloride ions from reaching the aluminum and the copper based anti-seize adds more protection as well.
😊
Heck, I just used a grinder.
So it doesn't have to be Aeroshell 33 or 64. Thanks.
Why does that barrel nut look backwards
Cuz it is lol
Wow! I seen him putting it on and noticed that immediate and thought I was loosing my mind or been doing it wrong for the last 10 years or so.
truth is the video was taken using mirrors.
Not backwards. That type of barrel nut is used by some styles of clamp-on free-float handguards. It's not the barrel nut from the delta ring assembly.
I had a slight panic that the 10.3" barrel assembly i recently purchased had the barrel nut installed wrong, but then I figured it was probably for a free float lol. the assembly didn't come with the sling swivel like it was supposed to and I just contacted brownells about it today and I was thinking "great, guess I'm going to have to complain about that too"
The internet says anti-seize contains graphite which corrodes aluminum???
With pictures or studies as proof or just random half informed conjecture?
Aaaaand that’s why you use Aeroshell 33MS anti seize. It has no graphite.
The great thing about the problem of “taking care of aluminum”...is that the aeronautics industry have already taken care of that. Because taking care of aluminum aircraft is supremely important.
@@matthewnelson2690
US military (all branches) use shell grease for barrel and nut. They do not use antiseaze. So you tell me what studies/pictures. Uncle Sam has been using AR/M16 since the late 50s
@@animalmother556x45 and aviation doesn’t use Aeroshell lol. The most common is MIL-T-5544, which contains graphite. There’s also a less-common zinc and petrolatum formula that’s used on occasion.
Not an expert or even near it on metals. Personnel experience in Maintenance of Food processing equipment for 50 years. I have so many times went to change out a Gear reducer with Aluminum mountings feet that was attached to Stainless steel equipment and have all 4 bolts removed and the gear reducer would still be attached to the machine. Sometimes I had to take a hammer and thin chisel to separate them. Always much worse in a hot steamy environment. I tried different ( but not all) greases and Anti seize but nothing seemed to work.
There’s an “aluminum safe” anti seize
No video!
I was told to use grease (Moly-B)and NOT use anti-seize because of the corrosion problem that can occur. Just wondering...
You were told wrong. It's completely unproven BS.
*** First off the wrench should be installed on the nut correctly as in turning it 180 degrees. The handle of the wrench should be forward of the install pulling the nut down not pushing the nut.
Great thing about science, in this case chemistry, is that it is true whether you buy into it or not. Use anti seize, for none other than the reason people regularly talk about their AR being their "shit hits the fan" gun. If you are 25 years in the future and gotta change your barrel and you rip your barrel off and the upper threads come off with the nut your gonna regret "not buying into the "theory". Also all of you say theory when you mean hypothesis.
While this is a good tip, it would be better if he followed basic safety and oriented the wrench in the correct manner. You know, in case it were to slip off under load? His barrel wrench should have been oriented in the other direction to tighten that nut.
ok safety police 💀
Why did he put the barrel nut on backwards? I mean, obviously he isn't doing this as an actual install since he forgot the delta ring but is there a reason he put it on backwards?
He didn't. Not sure what you see in the video but it's correctly installed.
@@jetjaguarXP I see now that it is not a barrel nut for a delta ring assembly. If it was, the teeth on the barrel nut would be facing forward, not aft. The barrel nut must be one of those proprietary ones for a normal free float hand guard that clamps on as it lacks the groove for the snap ring.