Challenge To All Dexter Breeders & ADCA
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- My challenge to all Dexter breeders, and the ADCA.
Dexter Cow Udder Conformation
• Dexter Cow Udder Confo...
Fixing The Herds Udder Problems
• Fixing The Herds Udder...
FOLLOS ME:
/ dexter.ranch
/ dexterranch
/ dexterranch
Email me: dexterranch@yahoo.com
You called it. Udders and feet.
Education, education, education.
That’s what we need.
I appreciate your work.
Thank you Tanya!
As a new breeder with little cattle background, it's hard to know what to look for. Are there any online or printed photographic guides for these traits, showing good vs bad?
We are about to take ownership of our first two heifer calves this weekend. We cannot wait!
When we visited the seller's farm their bull was like a large pet dog... but with extreme muscles. Little legs.
The calves are just barely haltered trained now too. A good starting point.
I shall keep an eye out for these issues. Sadly, the cows that had these calves were still very young. I did check them out though and they looked great so far. We shall see how their calves go long term.
Thanks for your advice. You have saved me years of mistakes.
I would add to your challenge of breeding for good udders, feet, and temperament the necessity of breeding for depth of body, strong topline, and thriftiness. Our newest bull is neither A2A2 nor homozygous polled, so we're not afraid to ignore fads in our breeding program. It's vital that Dexter breeders value and strive for truly good breeding practices.
I agree with you. Thank you for the input.
This is how you can tell a cattle man that cares more about the breed than about the almighty dollar. Cull hard for the love of the breed. Good luck and God be with you.
Thank you Steve.
I pretty much do this already, but also still breed red only, feet are my #1 udder #2 I'm also a member and would support this.
Thank you Shaun. Thanks for the support!
I am totally fine buying someone else’s cull cows. I would never expect someone to sell their best stock. Lol. We can AI to improve the cows weaknesses to produce great offspring!
I guess this is one way to look at it. I have found that I am the odd one out in my thinking on this topic. In my mind I view it as any other business. If the cow is advertised as just a registered Dexter cow, and the person that buys it from you learns the ins and outs of what they should be looking for 2 years down the road how likely are they to return to your farm. Obviously you do not want to sell your home team cows, but I believe the goal should be to get to a point that even the ones leaving the farm are considered good. They just aren’t your favorite. At that point you are selling a quality product that 99% of people will be happy with even after they learn what they should be looking for. Thanks for the comment.
Spot on!
Thank you Steve!
Very well said.
Thank you Tommy!
I’m wanting to sell my large breed cattle and get sum Dexter cattle
Hey buddy we are moving to all Dexter I really like them but I don't know all of the qualities yet . The are fascinating
That’s great news. There is a lot to learn. Hopefully I’m helping on some things but Facebook groups have a lot of good info as well. Good luck!
A better solution would be to have “star” designations of some sort. Our dairy goats for example gain milk stars or can earn superior genetics designations. Bucks can earn buck stars that can be inherited. Look at the ADGA as an example. The ADCA should not restrict what animals owners should register. The breeder must make the decision to cull/ not register not the association.
Love this idea. Unfortunately most everyone has completely rejected any changes whatsoever. Thanks for the comment.
@@dexterranch I would be willing to get on board with a proposal to the ADCA. Let the members decide as a whole? You would think that something like a “superior udder” designation would be an easy thing to award with the ease of recording videos. The assessment is made after 2 calvings… temperament would be difficult other than trusting the breeder as we do or don’t now.
I don’t know if you read through the comments over on Dexter breeder group, but I took a beating yesterday over just asking for it to be a discussion. I’m so blown away by the reaction. Yes there is politics in anything. And that’s why you get involved an try your best to Vote the right people in to the right positions. I hate it when people talk poorly about my cattle. I have been called out on things. They were true. I had to make adjustments. It’s part of it.
@@dexterranch I read the thread first before watching the video. You know as well as I that trying to get a farmer to change something is darn near impossible once set in their ways. We are 3 years into our Dexter breeding and cattle raising and have already made culls and changed our genetics. We drove 12 hours to buy our new Bull and glad we spent the time and extra money for a quality well mannered bull. I wouldn’t call it a beating in the thread on fb lol. If these people had an actual conversation with you I am sure their demeanor would be different. I think the biggest argument against your video is the desire to regulate what the ADCA would require for registration. But like I mentioned with our dairy goats it is much easier to track quality in milk production since they have the milk stars, buck stars, and superior genetics designations. It is more money that needs to be invested by the breeder due to testing and linear appraisals. But those designations allow us to charge a premium for our goat kids. When we got into goats I was only on board if we bought the best. For our dexters we will gradually improve since the investment is so much greater for quality cattle. Our first Dexter heifer we bought bred has the ugliest udder with 3 extra false teats she is tame but skiddish at the same time. We are hoping for a heifer out of her this year and hopefully will have a better/normal udder.
I understand they don’t want anyone restricting registration, and really I’m just trying to start the discussion. That’s all. So I threw an idea out there. Anything to encourage people to do better is the message. What blew me away was all the people telling me I should focus on education. As if I haven’t pretty much devoted all my free time to this. Dexter videos get the least views of any videos I produce and definitely don’t pay any bills. I do it to educate. Not looking for a cookie, but wasn’t expecting that.
I raise American Aberdeen cattle, not Dexter's but since I love smaller frame cattle I'm even a member of their group. Now, I cull hard and since is our business and reputation, if I don't like it will get an appointment for freezer camp that being said any heifer that don't align with our standards won't leave the property unless is going to the possessor, bull calves we sell them as steers.The big problem that I see with some Dexter cattle breeders that is as important as their udder is Chondro, that will be a huge problem for you guys, some breeders are even actually breeding torch that! Like any other animals like dogs, pigs, cats, and many more, they're not culling these animals, instead they're breeding them and selling them as miniature cattle and that to me my friend is a very dishonest way to do business, to me an animal with chondro should be culled, another thing that I see with your breed is that now they're pushing another color (white dexter) and again, there's no such thing as that. You're doing an excellent job breeding for the best and the best only, people like us who say the truth dont need to have a good memory, Good video as always.
Thank Rey. I agree that we should not be allowing chondro in the registration. The only thing I will say is that this is a requirement to be tested for during the registration process. Still people that don’t know any better have surely bought these animals not knowing that it was what it was. Thanks for the input sir!
Well, should I or should I not put my thoughts and blow this up? I will put this tid bit here now for chewing on at that moment...............Your thoughts on registration are too in depth(Coming from a former dairy guy), the whole reason for it is to just simply back up on paper what you claim the animal is, it is entirely on the breeders shoulders to take the traits/blood line and run with it. Yes, cow might not have the best udders, but she has a great frame...............bulls mother had great udders but the frame was in the lacking department.....putting the two together has the possiblity of a great cow, which then can be bred to a another bull who's parents were fantastic cows, right on down the line, if it doesn't work, change things up. It is not the job of the registry to do such things. The days of instant perfect do not exist with cattle, I have had neighbors milking a closed herd of cows for generations and still haven't got to 100% perfection in the owners eyes, that is the why so many, including me do it. I do not want any registry shoving down my throat what I should have, plain and simple. I want a cow that has ,a great frame, calves easy, breeds right back, gains well, doesn't need a vet on speed dial to survive, and is polled.................Look at that, just between me and you how the "Wants" are different, multiply that by how many people and look at what could be out there. When it comes down to it, I don't think any of this is what this is really about, it more of the knowledge of the person buying on the front end that should be the topic. Ok, everyone load your cannons and let me have it.
I’m not going to let you have it TP lol, but I will say this. I believe we are talking 2 different worlds. Everything you just mentioned can be done without a registry, and is done without a registry on 90% of the farms in the country. People out here run thousands of head and become very wealthy from it, and never once worry about a registry. They are breeding for what puts on weight the fastest, stays healthy, and calves easy. Nothing else. That’s why I said there is nothing wrong with selling that animal. I’m sure it can serve somebody well, but it has no business in the registry. In my eyes the registry is for persevering the breed. It cost a lot of money to run all these test, and do all this paperwork to register these animals. Not to mention the time. All to say yep it’s a Dexter? Might be horrible one but it’s a Dexter. I don’t know maybe I’m missing the point, but just seems to me what goes around comes around. I want to pass that animal off to someone that doesn’t know any better. Then a couple of years later I’m running back into that crappy bloodline again because I didn’t have the class to deal with my mistake and let it end with me. Food for thought. Hope you’re doing well.
@@dexterranch I think your under estimating the cattle that are registered in commercial herds, there is a registry for everything and it does exactly what I said it does, provide the traceable past for anyone who is interested in the animal to trace. Lots of cattlemen do the same as me. I look at the the family tree as hard or harder than the animal I am buying for anything I don't like or any potential problems. With all that said when I started with Dexters, I bought what I wanted and knew what I wanted, and haven't needed to make any changes or add any additions, but that came with knowledge of decades of dairy cows running around. In the end it all boils down to a low end animal or a high end animal has the potential to end up in the same place, and it comes down to what the person owning it does or does not do. I am moving in the complete opposite direction as you, now my son is older and can help me work cows and I don't have to ask my brother, and he is another set of eyes on them every day, we are going to conduct AI experiments on his cross bed pet cow this summer after she calves, I have been told nothing of horror stories about AI and Dexters, we are going to see, because not much of popular knowledge on these I have found to be very accurate in my time with them, and if I can get a decent conception rate similar to the milk cows we had, that is how I prefer adjustments to be made. Time will tell.
TP I was discussing this with someone else and I mentioned that I would even be ok with this being in a different class of registration. Call it the high conformation class or whatever they want. That way people that didn’t agree could still register their animals and it wouldn’t affect them.
@@tpfromcentralpa1692 I agree with you on the purpose of the registry.
@@SweetBriarFarmMichigan I don't know about the PDCA that mine are registered with, but I do know the ADCA has "Guard Rail Guidelines" right on their website which puts guidance to what is being discussed here. To do anymore is a bridge to far for me..............I have a novel idea, if you think you got hot stuff on 4 legs in the barn, why not shell the money out and put together a whole unit within the ACDA that will send experts out to "Classify" exactly what you got if you think you have some "Hot Stuff" just like the Holstein association does(Of-course for big $$$$).............Well I can tell you right now such things for Dexters would never fly, so prove me a liar and someone try it.
I encourage anyone reading this to look at the Holstein Association website, yes, registration for commercial herds is a serious thing, does for dairy, same goes for Angus and the others. This is not new territory. I will probably get flamed for this, but time would be better spent on better websites for the Dexter Breed with information people need who are not and haven't been cow people like myself, the fault isn't with the registry for some of these problems, more so with buyers going into things not knowing, or knowing the wrong info. Load up your cannons and fire away!!!!
It is not a breed associations responsibility to approve anybody's cattle for registration. We don't need stricter guidelines - there are no shortcuts you can take to guarantee animals so you don't lose money LOL. There are shows if you want to be involved in that world, but it is not any associations right to determine what is and isn't approved for breeding, and what you are asking for would destroy the breed faster than what is happening right now. Determining temperament, udders, feet etc is something buyers/consumers do in every single part of life - we choose the quality we purchase from, we push "know your farmer" so you know you can trust, because history has shown us that simply developing an association to push guidelines is not guaranteeing anything but compliance and even then, that doesn't happen. Look at organics - people are convinced they are getting something they are not, and inspectors are fully aware of that. I was involved in organics world and I know the stuff that gets hidden when inspectors are coming, how little time is involved in inspections, and how many dollars are involved.
The dexter world is rife with politics and huge egoes - it's how we've ended up with 4+ associations (I didn't even know there were that many LOL). Some say before 1991 is okay, before 70's before 50's, polled isn't, red shouldn't be, a2a2 is all, legend, traditional, big, short, chondro, not chondro, dual purpose, triple purpose . . . At this point, the adca has gone a direction that I"m not personally a fan of - showing, big cattle, grain fed etc. I can't imagine them requiring approval because depending on who the board and president is, there will be some serious biases involved. I think paying for dna, registration is plenty for them to be sure the few things they are vetting is honest, and I certainly don't want to absorb the cost of them approving my cattle .
You are asking for shortcuts instead of buyer education - you got caught up in a trend yourself and now you are having to pay and dig yourself out of it. It happens to the best of us. :) We each determine what is important to us and the breed association has guidelines people should follow, but their responsibility is not to vet what we do. That is buyer responsibility - it is exhausting, but a journey every person involved in animals will end up following.
I've had dexter cattle for 23 years now. I started with 10 and I have the videos to prove there were some skanky critters, but they had longevity behind them. They had some sickle hocks which also ends up as long toes, but not a bad udder amongst them. In fact, I wish I had some of those udders now! (I moved to USA during mad cow when the border was closed tight to cattle) They had some torpedo butts (especially the bulls!) and not a ton of depth, maybe a bit of a hunch back, but there were a couple of treasures. I talked to long time breeders who said told me, yes these guys may not always be pretty, but they pop out calves without an issue, the slight sickle hock tends to have less calving and arthritis issues, and they came from 20+ year old cows who had bred back at minimum yearly and some of them had bred back every 10 months to have 23 calves in 22 years . . . . so work with them. I had those long toes take care of themselves year after year and never need trimming and they never affected the cattle - I've never owned a dexter with hoof issues. I have owned other breeds with great conformation and hooves that ended up with hoof issues that they were culled for - a long toe doesn't mean hoof issues. And then when I finally breed for PERFECT hooves, I get 2 years of flooding and my beautiful hooves end up as long toes that never get worn off. . . . but still no lameness
I very naively decided to fix the breed (as though everybody else had not tried) and I decided to never sell anything I wasn't 100% behind. In the last 23 years I've had way over 200 calves (I've lost track) and up until last year I sold a total of 3 animals. I've registered maybe 20. And I've eaten all except 20 heifers. It's expensive and painful. And I regret selling the one of the 3 I sold LOL. I've raised other animals and other breeds alongside and it is very very hard to find good dexters - frustrating because you can lose all your hard work in one breeding, you can also improve them in a breeding. There's almost no information on any of the animals, long time breeders seem to have no clue about udders, overfeeding hiding a multitude of flaws, people show 3 animals and then are called top breeders even though the other 40 at home are not same quality etc. Touted as dual purpose and milkers when they've never milked, but I would not require them all to be approved for breeding or strict guidelines. Learn to ask questions and get lots of photos and educate yourself.
If you want an elite registration that you believe will guarantee good animals, you will pay top dollar for that privilege. You will need multiple ratings and you'll need to pay to have them approved multiple times in a life time and in person - I've had good udders go for 6 years and then 7th lactation blow out with a calf who nurses off just one quarter. And that gorgeous cow went into freezer and that calf also butchered.
With classification just once, you don't see that. There is no way to guarantee quality, and video or photos will not do it either as I know very well how easy it is to hide something in photos.
My animals are not perfect, they are not polled a2a2 and red (although some are ;) ) but I'm working on them and my grassfed, 40-42 inch that have big rumens and sometimes long toes but NEVER hoof issues, are not necessarily what the ADCA showing is going to think is a beautiful animal.
I avoid breeders who have all young animals - you need to see them age to see what you have. When I started 23 years ago, they had no young girls in their herd - they averaged 14!! Multiple in their 20's (they had over 50 registered dexters plus a holstein dairy and they knew what a good udder was). It is a lot of work to find good animals, but don't destroy the breed by requiring an association of 10-20 people to approve it, and don't make these animals out of reach of good people because their prices will go so high they are not going to ever be attainable. Encourage good breeding, but don't mandate an association makes arbitrary guidelines.
Thank you for the comment. I appreciate thoughtful comments that show people care about the topic. That being said the only thing that I must comment on is the part about me trying to take a short cut and avoid education. You are actually not the first person that has said something similar to this. So with all due respect I will point out the fact I devote most of my free time to producing these videos only to educate with little to no compensation. It’s very odd for me to see people taking the stance that me of all people is avoiding educating people about this breed, best practices, and sharing my story. Very odd. That being said everyone has a right to their opinion. Thanks again for taking the time to provide your input.