A note: if you know my second life, please keep that between us :) Really appreciate all your patience as I figure out this strange in-between situation with that life and "Ashe". I'm still actively involved in two projects which will keep me busy into the next year, so expect that channel and this one to continue. Sorry, you're stuck with me ^^ (And as far as the accent, I'm sure it'll correct itself eventually.)
You're secretly in contract with the WWE to start your new life of Professional Wrestling and set to make a quarter-million dollars in a special contract with them? How close was I with my guess? :)
I literally cried when my inky received a letter from my hof. Thats the stuff that we want. We don’t care about forced appearances from previous characters. How hard is it to write some codexes about our choices? I’m not a coder but they clearly stated the decision to NOT do it was intentional and that pisses me off.
Its literally a double blight and the end of times but everyone is missing? Fenris? Isabela in Rivain, HoF if survived/Orlesian warden Commander not present?! 10 years for what? For Rooks story? Who's to say in the next game it will be "West Thedas so rook choices don't matter"
Incorporating our choices is what made a game a Bioware game. Voiding our previous world states only makes sense, in your words, because they made it make sense, when they should have done the extra work to incorporate them. They could have made that make sense, too. Weaving our various choices into a new game is partly what made Dragon Age games so impressive in the first place.
"it's not that you're isolated from your choices" but we are? we're going to Nevarra but won't hear about the Divine, we're going to Weisshaupt but can't here about the fate of the Wardens after Here Lies the Abyss, or a snippet of who killed Urthemiel, maybe a codex entry on the cure for the calling, we literally have Harding and Varric with us, but they won't be able to talk about past stuff for... reasons? And to your point, if they wanted to, they can write around everything. They wrote around Leliana dying in Origins. There's no inherent reason why the 3 choices they chose are the most important, because those can easily be written/handwaved away too. The fact that they can write away the choices we make doesn't make the lack of references to those choices any less satisfying or immersion-breaking. They seem to understand flavor text is good, because we have it for weapons. But our choices, nah. They don't deserve even flavor text because Epler wants to reference Iron Bull's death in a future game in a major way, as if Bull's death will matter in a future game where we maybe are 10 years ahead in the future or further in the North of the North or wherever. In what world does that make sense. Cmon.
@@Daneplaysrpg lie to yourself if you need to but don't gaslight the rest of us like we cannot see the break in our immersion coming with all these decisions that Bioware decided was so important over being consistent lore wise
Tevinter is literally closer to the sunburst thrown than Navara is. And the Divine was appointed 10 years ago in game so no one is going to be talking about it and even if they do then it would be the Divine Justinia the 6th. As for here lies the abyss there was not many wardens left and again it was 10 years ago. Seriously Urthemiel died 20 years ago... Also maybe just wait until the game comes out before you judge the story.
It feels so much to me that they've overstepped in trying to attract as many new fans as possible. So much so that veterans feel let down. Completely changed the gameplay which I'm still not crazy about but I've fome to think it'll probably be very fun even if it's not what I want from Dragon Age. Solas was set up as the big bad and we've lost that as well. And now the choices thing. I mean Morrigan is literally in the game and nothing from her past matters? Not the Dark Ritual, not her relationship with the Warden. Absolutely nothing. I mean Kieran is literally an adult now. Even if we don't get a cameo fans will naturally be curious to know what he's up to. Plus there was the implication that losing the Old God soul would have some kind of affect on his mental state. How is he coping having to live without something he was born with? There are gonna be so many unanswered questions that can be solved with a simple reference or codex entry. (Spoilers for Veilguard) there's also the fact that there are two archdemons in the world. One might think that the fact Morrigan once preserved an Old God Soul would be relevant. And on a much smaller note there's Feynriel. I held out so much hope he would be in this game. Because if he isn't in a game set in Tevinter we're probably never gonna see him. And you'd think that with Inky and Morrigan both being in the game the Well would be relevant. Especially considering the villains are literally Elven Gods. How could it not matter that a present character is bound to an Elven God? If it truly means so little the choice shouldn't have existed in the first place. Even Solas himself made a huge deal about what it means to bound to an elven god. "Everything you do whether you know it or not will be for her." And now it just doesn't matter? Why? What is the thought process here? Compare the situation to Inquisiton and even DA2, this is a massive downgrade. In DA2 you get a whole quest if you made Bhelen King where you can save the last surviving member of House Harrowmont who ventures all the way to KalSharok. In Inquisiton I got to see Loghain again and that meant so much to me considering such a small percentage of the fanbase spared him and they still thought it worth giving him such a big role in the story. Now we can't even get a simple reference? I'm sure the game will be fun, in fact I'm still excited and counting the days but this is immensely disappointing and disheartening.
This was perfectly articulated, and matches my own train of thought on the matter. It’s indefensible on BioWare’s behalf and quite discouraging to see; after all, overarching World States are a Dragon Age staple. The thought of future installments becoming semi isolated almost makes me not want another game after Veilguard, and I’m somehow still excited to play it! I didn’t expect 600 choices to have an impact on this game, but hell if BW couldn’t have done better than 3. Don’t even get me started on Morrigan, it’s gonna be impossible to look at DAV’s version the same. >:(
Beautifully said. IF there are two archdemons running amok in this story AND our Warden were to still be alive, what better way for their inclusion than to be there to neutralize one of them. We are going to need Grey Wardens to defeat them anyway. Does that mean Davrin doesn’t make it to the end of the game? These things all matter. Morrigan being included and no mention of her and my characters son would be a complete letdown. Like Rook will say “Tell me about your family?” And she’ll say, “Don’t ask me personal questions.” Just her inclusion alone in the game presents more questions, Witch-hunt as a DLC felt like it was crafted specifically for me and my first time through the game. They went through the portal together. If there was never any intention for wrapping up these story threads that are very unique to each person playing these games, we should have all arrived at the same place with our Wardens never making it out of the first game alive.
The worst part of all this discussion about the 3 choices is that it didn't initially came directly from the devs, they kept the info hidden, until after someone on reddit (a small content creator afaik) talked about it. And I bet the devs still would have kept it hidden at least until release. At first nearly everyone dismissed what the guy said (many called him a liar on the DA subreddit) but as the info spread, the devs and IGN began to officially share the info. And one other issue I have is how the devs are communicating, some of them were literally gaslighting fans for asking questions about the lack of choices from previous games...
@@mrmasky9783thats such a weird phrase too, like not every storyline has to end in such an angsty and heartbreaking way to be interesting. We just wanted to see characters we thought would be relevant to countries/factions :(
I rather have a half chocolate bar (codex entries) than none at all. And while I understand not every choice can be shown consequences of, I would have really loved a bit more. Kieran was impactful for Morrigan as a character and made her more empathic. It also determines if the soul of the old god Uthemiel was distroyed or went to Mythal. I am still sad about it, will still play the game, but with less pink glasses.
I don't think the people who were upset that their favorite character was reduced to a codex entry would prefer that character doesn't get mentioned at all. I get that they couldn't do consequences for every single choice, but I stand by my opinion that 3 is an insultingly low number that loses too much nuance. I do think that Solas would use controlling magic on the well user because he is desperate and the effects of who drank from the well seem like it should permeate. Wouldn't an Inquisitor who had the voice of ancient elves be changed by that experience? We don't even get to decide the personality of the Inquisitor (unless that means we control their dialogue). How is Varric not going to mention Hawke's fate? I don't know if he'll die, but if he does, and Hawke is presumed dead, that should be the last name on his mouth. If Hawke isn't dead, shouldn't they have gone to Weisshaupt and shouldn't that be mentioned? In Inquisition, Cullen says the choice of divine will affect all of Thedas, so why doesn't it? Speaking of, I personally don't think Cullen needs to appear in Veilgard, but if he did for some reason, they could just change his VA since BioWare has done that before. I could go on about other consequences that should still appear in Veilgard (like Zevran) but I'll move on to the choices we have. You made great points about how we won't know the specifics of an Inquisitor that romanced Blackwall or Cassandra. I think the other choices lack nuance too. The redeeming choice discounts the other interactions the Inquisitor had with Solas. Did they agree about spirits and were they friendly up until his betrayal? Or did they fight on every issue, but the Inquisitor believes he can be redeemed. Again, unless we control the Inquisitors dialogue, it seems we will miss out on that nuance. It seems to me, the fate of the Inquisition could only change a few lines of dialogue, either way the goal remains the same. Again, I get that not every choice from Origins onwards could be in the game, but it feels like it takes more effort to dance around some of these choices than it does to answer them. I wouldn't mind a fresh start if they had tied up the loose ends, but as it is, there's too many questions (like why wouldn't the HoF and/or Alistair travel to fight a new blight). As you say, I hope there are more ways to declare our choices through dialogue, but based on what Epler has said, I won't hold my breath. It's so very disappointing and I don't personally understand why they made the choice.
"it takes more effort to dance around some of these choices than it does to answer them" my thoughts exactly. Zevran's case for example, he is the boss of the antivan crows IF he didn't die in origin, he also changed the crows philosophy. How a Rook with a crow backstory is going to dodge the subject of who their boss is or if his faction is cruel or helpful etc..
I've said it before and I'll say it here, too: You are allowed to be upset with the excuses given for important choices not carrying over. BioWare brought in our favourite lore nerds (like Ghil) to make sure the story was consistent, and then completely dismissed their concerns. They've given their reasons, but it doesn’t justify how disconnected The Veilguard feels from our prior experiences in Dragon Age. Many are now feeling how Origins fans have felt for years; pushed aside in favour of attracting new players to a franchise already four games deep. This decision cuts out what made the series special: continuity and the personal connection to past choices. The focus on Solavellan players is a slap in the face to fans who, after a decade of anticipation, expected better. You’re not wrong to feel like they’ve let us down.
It’s not a deal breaker for me but I’m still very disappointed by BioWare’s decision to abandon The Keep and our ability to import world states. As of now Trespasser is the only thing in the entire series that actually mattered. Not only does that hurt immersion for players but it also hurts replayability.
if that is not a huge middle finger to many of the old fans i dont know what is. I at least played the games thinking i would influence the world of Thedas and tailor the story. Wont buy this game, the Bioware and Dragon Age i knew and loved has devolved into something i have no desire to experience. It makes me so sad since Dragon Age is my favorite fictional universe and Bioware was my favorite gameing company for a long time.
@@Druller-y9p I agree but at the same time. Any choice taken in DAO hardly impacted DA2 other than superficial stuff like cameos. Then any choice you took in DA2 did not really mattered since the ending was set in stone: The mages in the circles rebel and Hawke goes into exile. After that, DAI decided that instead of the story revolving around that conflict, it would be resolved in 5 minutes and the rest of the story was about closing breaches in the Veil. It's almost the same with Mass Effect, where the options you took through the game got reduced to nothing in the Grand Scheme of things.
I don't think the rest of the series didn't matter. Because they've been very clear that *anything* is still fair game for the future. Not that it's just being thrown out, never to be touched again. And it's very likely we will see the series continue, since sales are currently on target.
@@RockoEstalon Those superficial stuff were still worth something because they made each player's worldstate feel unique and added to that sense of continuity Bioware games were known for. The previous games still had references to those choices in the form of dialogue from NPCs, codex entries, small cameos, and flavour text. Bioware never did a phenomenal job with taking into account our choices but they at least _tried._ It was a compromise we were willing to have. But now, we won't even get _that_ anymore, as if they've given up entirely. It's clear they don't care about the fans that have supported them for over a decade at this point.
Heartbreaking, baffling, inexcusable. The announcement was tantamount to being told that the game we’ve been waiting for for ten years is actually never coming out. 15 years of devotion to this franchise, only to find out that the people now in charge of the don’t love it for the same reason as we do. I’ll never get to play in the Thedas I saved again Ideally this is a crisis that one would have expected the participation of a community council during development could have flagged and prevented, but I suppose nothing could be done when at the end of the day the shepherds of this story care more about attracting new fans than giving a single damn about the people who’ve been waiting all along
Oh, could you add a little more overwrought melodrama? Your decisions still happened, why are you struggling with this? Is there a problem with object permanence? Do you need Morrigan to address the camera about her relationship history to feel anything mattered? I wish some of these “fans” would admit they don’t care about the advancement of the narrative, all they care about is seeing past references. Sorry, it’s Rook’s story, get over it.
@@NorthernThedas No, those decisions DID NOT happen. They never existed as far as DAV is concerned. For instance, is 2024 the same year as we know it today if the 1960's up through to 2000 is removed? Of course it isn't! It would become unrecognizable. Such will be the case with DAV and every so called "returning" character. DAV will contain a generic default state of the world that has nothing to do with choices made throughout the series. It might as well be another game. While this may not matter to you personally, it's clearly a very big deal for many others. Bioware claiming "this is still your Dragon Age," is nothing more than PR speak and absolute nonsense. They just want people to buy the game, no matter what.
@@Cameron-fk5fk Oh, I get it. The spin and PR rhetoric just doesn't work on me. Also the very fact that you felt a need to insert a backhanded attempt at an insult only serves to lessen the point you thought you were making.
@@Cameron-fk5fk It's a game. People have strong feelings about changes to a long running series and they're expressing their dissatisfaction with it. That is all. I don't have to resort to juvenile behavior because someone doesn't agree with my opinions. Obviously, some people are incapable of having a discussion without using such tactics. Also, reading some of the comments, you seem to be attacking practically everyone who is of the same opinion. Do you work for Bioware? Apparently, you seem to be having a very difficult time dealing with the fact that other people have opinions that do not mirror your own. You certainly will have your hands full when this game releases. Respond if you like. Sparring with you is inconsequential. Enjoy DAV.
@@Cameron-fk5fkGo fuck yourself, I’ve been playing since 2009 and have bought every game on multiple platforms. ‘Tourist’ 🙄 says the one not caring about continuity
Ashe your loyalty is admirable, but I can’t agree with you on this one. There’s no “getting it right with DLC or DA5” this was there one chance to do it and they heavily missed the mark. The truth is, this feels more like a Dragon Age fan fic than a continuation to a large narrative that’s been connected throughout each installment. This is not a game for “new players” it’s never been! It’s like saying let’s cater Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (part 2) to a new audience. Dragon Age games have always been a continued experience dependent on each installment. This new BioWare team did not want to acknowledge or respect that and just wanted to create their own “new” story moving away from the past games. They only really added the option of the Inquisitor for fan service. 7:53 confirms our 3 choices are completely optional and have no effect on the main story. Making excuses for these decisions only reinforces them to continue disrespecting the series. I understand discarding personal and side choices that would only ever live on a codex, but the fact that MAIN CRITICAL choices have no weight is truly pathetic. People want to see their main critical choices reflected in their own worldstate. Ashe, you helped with DA Keep you understand the importance of carrying over choices! That is the Dragon Age I know, crafted by ppl who cared… not this.
You right, If devs had done everything right from the start, we wouldn't have to hope for da5 or DLC. Which we may never see (I still don't see much sales - sad but not surprising, bioware lost the trust of players and didn't really try to get it back)
I'm sorry for my bluntness but what you says is so wrong it feels you got paid by new bioware to recite a text they gave you for trying to justify their laziness (or lack of experience). How in the world the knowledge of several ancient elfs is not important in a story where we need to fight elven gods, and is reduced to a translator ? How "who's story is this? It's Rooks story" can justify to annihilate all the choices and world changes ? Will it be too much for new players that don't know the lore ? Inquisition nailed it perfectly (the first dragon age game i played), it gave a default world state where for example Morigan didn't have a child, so no confusion for a new player why the kid had a god soul. It also removes Connor's encounter since it's irrelevant for a player that didn't play origins, and other things i don't remember. And never when i played it was i thinking "is it the story of the inquisitor or hawk's?". What's the connection between let rook experience things we seen in the previous game and removing the keep choices ? You really lost me here. I really DON'T understand new bioware choice here, they had the perfect set up, big choices would be little ripples in tevinter easily implemented by one single line, much easier than the previous games, but they decided to remove it completely and keep characters that was more changed by the world and choices we previously made.
When people complained that the little references were too little it was an expression for desire for more not less, and im sure every one of those people would rather have those than none at all. So both of those audiences dislike not having those little references. The idea that this the best scenario is ridiculous and makes it sound like cope, and you yourself highlighted many issues that makes it less than ideal.
What was the point of the other games if the choices we made aren't carried over? It's one of the main things Dragon Age does.... This is baffling to me and I'm pretty good at accepting changes in things. But its like ordering chocolate milk and they gave you "new" chocolate milk but there's no chocolate.
@@Srefaniusok, so it's safe to expect the same level of branching paths and playstyles of... Say, BG3, DoS2 or Wrath of the Righteous instead, right? Past choices won't matter at all, but this will be a grandious rpg, the best in the series. I'll surely be able to make a full-evil run, or kill my entire party, or use 'forbidden arts' such as blood magic, or steal from npcs' pockets, right? I'll go lockpicking every door and then face the consequences of all these despicable actions, right? I'm sure time and resources saved from not implementing previous world-states are being used this way, am I correct?
I categorically disagree with most of this video specifically because it goes the same route that I've seen others bring up as a defense-that its impossible to keep up with all player choices. Leaving aside that Inquisition literally prompted the creation of the foundry for this exact scenario, the bigger issue is that most of INQUISITION has been ignored. This isn't about whether or not the grey warden is alive, its about the many world altering decisions the inquisitor makes and the many sequel threads teased that the DEVS put in the game being turned to ash cause “too much work I guess.” How am I supposed to be invested in a tale if ultimately these interconnected stories don't matter? Why should I care then?
I'm sure that Morrigan having a son that's a Tevinter god reborn and uncorrupted will have no implications for a game set in Tevinter. Also a game where you go to Weisshaupt does nothing with the original Grey Warden character. I understand having to pair the decisions down, but there's pairing decisions down, and there's importing exactly 3 from the most recent game's dlc. I'd be less annoyed if they canonized things to be honest, that way we'd at least get a story about the whole Tevinter god plot while we're in Tevinter, or we'd see the Architect again.
@@MyTomServo probably. I've seen some people theorize that the glowing bit Flemeth pushed through her Eluvian before her final chat with Solas might've been it, sent somewhere (or to someone), but it's just conjecture.
The handlindg of the Hero of Ferelden is one of the most baffling things but it has never been properly addressed in any game. It's kinda funny how a person so important can just vanish lol. Anders was hiding in a shit-hole since he deserted the Wardens but a HoF who is Warden-Commander of Ferelden can just go AWOL. That said, I learned to stopped caring many years ago, when Inquisition was the newest game. I get why people are angry but I "mourned" that side of Dragon Age 10 years ago.
"What South has to do with the North" - everything. In the North only Tevinter Imperium is under the rule of the Black Divine. EVERY other country is ruled by the Southern Chantry, so you would think the choice of a new Divine and their attitude towards certain things - or if it's Leliana if she was hardened or softened - WILL matter not only for Orlais and Ferelden but also for other nations that are under the Chantry's religious rule. Yes, the Chantry control in the North is a little bit more lax than in Orlais, Ferelden and Free Marches, but it exists and has lasting impact on the lives of its people, and the society. Not to mention other important choices that affect Solas' power (Kieran's existence = Old God Soul being either saved or not) and control (Well of Sorrows gave Mythal control over the one who drank from the Well, and then Solas took over Mythal's powers and possibly the control as well, who drank from the Well? The Inquisitor or Morrigan? Who is now potentially controlled by Solas? - and I don't take the assumption that the control was nullified as a good argument, because even if it goes against his nature to do so, it could have provided an interesting conflict FOR HIM to deal with as a character, knowing that he can control another person at any moment and possibly feeling horrible about that possibility, because it makes him no different than the Evanuris even if he chooses not to do that. This game is about him, why not give him existential crisis once again?). 10 years is not enough to make a lasting change that would overwrite those choices, unless ofc the Divine was killed off, there was another schism and suddenly only Black Divine matters, because Southern Chantry lost it's power, which I don't remember being mentioned in any novels. We couldn't correct NPCs already in Inquisition, especially if you played as an elf and were constantly fed propaganda about your dalish brethren and couldn't correct anyone that they're wrong and had to accept that dalish lore was retconned, so I will not hold my breath in hope that I will be able to do the same in Veilguard if it's not clearly stated beforehand. Also Revan was carried over to the Old Republic mmo and I'm pretty sure he is no longer treated as if player's choices mattered. He now got a canon from the devs and he is written according to their vision of him. The issue everyone have is that Bioware lied that choices matter and waited pretty long before they revealed how little choices make it into the game. People feel deceived. Lore people like me feel insulted by the choice of the choices included. I was aware that Bioware can't include the choices from previous games forever, because that is an issue that comes with branching-like storytelling. At some point there is just too many choices that you as a studio can't accomodate. But seriously people would be happy with a few major choices that could potentially affect the North and that's it. Nobody asked Bioware to include every little choice we have ever made, because most of them are only relevant for certain characters or places that may not even be included in Veilguard. So going with the major ones that are important for the story of Veilguard and the localisation seems the best. I never played Solas romance, but even I know that removal of the Vallaslin is not simply a cosmetic choice but a choice that affects their dynamic. If either Solas respects the Dalish culture or manages to convince you to get rid of the sign of it from your face. That's important if your boyfriend did in fact manage to bullshit you that your culture doesn't matter because of the meaning of vallaslins 1000 years ago, or if you stood your ground and protected it. (Not to mention how significant that choice could be to indigenous players who often come from cultures with face markings). And the whole "potential DLC" argument is also a weak one, because the story should be done fully, not done in lackluster way and then get added content in the DLCs. That was exactly the issue with the Tresspasser. People were pissed that this story was not part of the full game when it should, and that people had to pay for it, instead of getting it as an update to the game. In this case Larian does so much better than Bioware so far.
A codex entry would have been enough for most of the major choices, since they're going to be contain to Southern Thedas. It would have been the bare minimum, and they couldn't even do that. Zevran should have had a role in the Antivan Crown plotline, though. Hell, I'd prefer they just run with their own canon where everyone can be alive for a follow up if variables are so hard to work with.
Corinne Busch didn't even know who Zevran was and said so on live stream... Like, they are payed to talk on lore how can you not know the big characters from each game. That was the first sign of something going very wrong. One of them even called Zevran a red flag that has to be avoided... Like, that's not funny :(
I appreciate the effort to look at it from a positive side, but I just think this was a huge and unnecessary blunder on their part. The amount of time they'd save on making a few codex entries or some optional dialogues, couldn't possibly compare to the amount of goodwill they lost by leaving that out. And let's be honest, Bioware needed all the goodwill they can get, because the game was already a big target from the wider gaming audience. It's so important for a game with this much controversy to at least keep a positive narrative with the core fanbase, but they really shot themselves in the foot on this front for no good reason. It also sets the stage for the decisions in Veilguard. Because now you've primed players into believing that the choices they make likely aren't gonna matter in a potential sequel. I honestly think this needs to be rectified by a patch or dlc. It's not unheard of either. Larian added an epilogue to Baldurs Gate 3 after their wild miscalculation of leaving it out.
I wouldn't use BG3 as a positive example, though. Much as I admire Larian, I think they cave in too easily to pressure and have added things that feel more fanservice than good additions to the story (Karlach miraculously finding a way to solve her infernal machine issue, and the toning down of Ascended Astarion's treatment of a romanced Tav, being a couple of examples). Bioware made a decision with the 3 choices, and while I dislike it, I think they should just stick to it rather than mess up the story they've written by adding "fan requests".
I’m kind of ticked off that the entire plot of the old god soul was dropped, it kind of felt like a pretty important thing that morrigan son had his old god power taken by flemmith, who in turn had her power absorbed by solas, it feels VERY relevant to Solas plan, maybe not something he counted on but a MASSIVE boon to it. I feel like if there was any singular choice from DAO or 2 brought into veil guard it should have been that
I have to disagree about Iron Bull being un-actualized if you sacrifice the Chargers. He dies if you don't save them, but a romance is still very possible. It's just that it ends in tragedy, which should be referenced if we're expecting a cameo or comment about the Inquisitor's romance from DAI. The way that the DAV character creator words his romance makes it seem like he is still alive. Hawke can also romance Fenris, Anders, and Merrill, and they can die in DA2's final act. Their deaths and romances are still referenced in dialogue when the Inky asks Hawke in DAI.
It's written "Who did your Inquisitor romance?" but "Did your Inquisitor romance Solas?" it's how it's read. I romanced Cassandra and then made her the Devine and don't expect any of this being addressed in this insult of a software
I don't know Ashe... I get a lot of what you are saying here, but only three choices is honestly still inexcusable. I get the point about development costs. But I still think asking that about 10 choices, from the past three games in total, is absolutely not to much to ask from a series based on the idea that choices carry over between titles. And I'm not saying that all those choices would have some big story impact. Just having some of the warden characters show up at Weishaupt, or the Inquisitor (or another character) making a simple remark about who the Divine is, would already be enough. It is not going to cost that much just to record three possible lines about who the Divine is. But just accounting for three choices? I'm just never going to be able to justify that. And frankly I don't think we, as fans, should just be oke with that. It's honestly insulting and a betrayal of long time fans.
The development costs excuse is BS. This isn't some poor indie developer trying to get by. Bioware is a multi million dollar company owned by multi billion dollar company EA. They've had 8 years to develop this game. There is no excuse.
@@Cameron-fk5fk Oh man, don't even get me started on Rise of Skywalker... hated that movie! However I don't think the same logic applies here. It's not about nostalgia bait. On the contrary, it's about staying faithful to the storytelling and core of the franchise. It does not count as nostalgia to fulfill the promise of choices mattering, of shaping the DA world into your own curated version of it. And yes, even if that is just with little references and possibly even cameo's. I genuinely think that is all that anyone is asking of Bioware here.
@@Cameron-fk5fk I think it is alright for us as fans to call out things we do not like. When we see changes made in a direction that we do not like, a direction that is antithetical to why we liked a series in the first place, we should let our voices be heard as fans. As long as we do it in a polite way of course. Nothing wrong with having a healthy discussion. Don't get me wrong, I will still be playing Veilguard and am holding out hope for it. But if the series keeps moving away from the reasons I've loved it all these years, I might have to drop the franchise altogether.
There’s a lot of choices that don’t really matter- but also a lot that really do and that’s where my disappointment lies. I can get over not seeing Feynriel- but likely not running into Fenris in Tevinter makes zero sense to me. The problem with what they’ve done is that it’s going to leave too many unresolved threads. For instance- I’ll never get to know the ultimate fate of my Hero of Ferelden- last on a Mission to cure the wardens of the blight. I’ll never know what happens to Hawk at Weisshaupt because I left Loghain in the fade- or for that matter whether he ultimately will survive his encounter with Nightmare ( I presume not). I can see that the choice of divine doesn’t really matter in the context of not seeing them in game- but if there’s any reference to the southern Chantry it’s going to be hard not to step on someone’s headcanon. Personally I went with Leliana since I liked that character arc for her the best. But if they write her character in Veilguard to be more like Vivienne or Cassandra then I’ll feel let down even though I know she won’t show up. When we finally presumably get to meet the new leader of the imperium (aka Dorian) is he going to be enthusiastic about slavery or will he be reformed like I made him in Inquisition? I suppose that will never be addressed but without knowing what kind of leader he becomes it’s a bit of a letdown. Is Alastair just written out entirely since Ferelden probably has no role in the plot? I mean I get it- we can’t always track the lives of every character sure- but it’ll just keep me wondering. Seeing BioWares Canon in every choice won’t feel good to me as a longtime fan. I can get over the art style changes and the change of the combat (I might even prefer the new combat but that remains to be seen). I can forgive having a narrower scope (I liked the big open spaces in Inquisition). But taking away the resolution of so many threads has got to be the worst and most baffling choice of all with this game and I can confidently say I hate it. Will I still play the game and enjoy- yes I probably will- but will still feel a little cheated.
At it's core my concern is the idea that returning characters are the same no matter what we did. Morrigan and Varric should not be identical despite our past choices. An Inquisitor who serves the Divine should be different depending on who the Divine is. I understand your argument. It makes sense that the team ended up here after 10 years of shakeups and team changes. It does just lead us to a problem of making past choices feel like they don't have payoff. Choices don't pay off once and then stop mattering. We are the entirety of our pasts. Characters should be different if different things happened to them. So when they end up in the exact same place, it further emphasizes our choices being irrelevant to the grander narrative. Which, in a sense, has always been true. But when they write stories about making big choices, it undermines the vibe if you know they intend to beeline us back to everything being the same. We saw this in Trespasser with the Mage v Templar decision largely not mattering with the same institutions existing no matter what. Anywho. I want DATV to be great. I just won't stop being bothered I suppose.
So my issue with the whole Southern Thedas not effecting Northern Thedas is the chantry. Nevarra, Anderfels, Antiva and parts of Rivain are under the Orlesian chantry. So wouldn’t that mean who is the divine be important. Also I hope the Well is explained.
@@belladonnaofwackness832 Or for that matter, who is Harding working for? If the Inquisition has been disbanded, why would her faction be 'Inquisition; would be better if she was Guard of the Viscount.
Because it was never fully disbande, only oficially. Trespasser ending shows that. We simply choose to go undercover with the Inquisition to avoid information leaks to Solas, the Qunari or whoever else may want to listen.
@@GiovanniZaluchiif I remember correctly I thought there was a brief explanation that if the inquisition had disbanded only a small group will remain to watch solas closely.
I wouldn't really care about only three choices if Morgan wasn't in this game. Like how are they going to address her having a son with my Hero of Ferelden? That too big a detail to just leave out entirely.
"How do you account for all the past decisiouns?" Easy anwer you don't. You don't even try. But you definetely take more than 3 decisiouns into account. Especialy does that can be tied to the Tevinter: Dorian, Fenris, Wardens, Well of Sorrows, Zevran.... You select some decisiouns and make them matter. By doing so, players will always know some decisiouns matter, but we will never know which, that makes the game intresting. If no desicioun matters, then why replay the game? And this new players exuse is just that, exuse. Chantry was always there and new players have no idea what chantry is? Darspawn were always there, new players have no idea. Quanary? Blood Magic? Fade? Inqusition? All these are things you need to explain to new players anyway, so what is the difference with doing the same with Dorian or Fenris for example?
The choices that matter only make sense if it includes choices relating morrigan and varric since they're both important to veilguard. The hero of fereldan might not be important to the story but whether or not hawke died for the inquisition should be important to varrics story moving forward. This game didn't need every important choice carried over but it needed more than its going to provide
Man I was ok with the hack'n'slash combat, didn't give a feck about butt sizes and everything else people are hating...But this 3 options things killed most of my hype and put real fear in my soul about the quality of this game as a Dragon Age sequel. The whole point of this franchise is being a choice-based RPG, and they butchered basically this whole concept only giving us 3 choices from past games, with TWO of this 3 choices being very final decisions you make in the end of a DA Inquisition DLC. Trying to put logic into this is just making excuses for lack of competence.
What alienates me the most about this is that they perfected the solution to the problem of Quantum Characters over a decade ago in the original Mass Effect Trilogy. Ashley is dead? Then her role in the story is filled by Kaidan. Wrex died on Virmire? Allow me to introduce Wreav. Mordin died in the Suicide Mission? Here, have Padok Wiks. He's great! No Grunt? Urdnot Dagg. Jack dead? Prangley finishes his juice box and steps up to bat. General Corinthus subs in for Garrus, and Admirals Xen and Raan sub in for Tali. No Legion? You get Not-Legion. No Thane? here's Kirrahe. No Kirrahe? Then there's no-one to get between Kai Leng and his target. If Miranda's dead, her sister steps in. If Jacob's dead, then some random Cerberus Scientist takes his place. If Kasumi died, then Jondam Bau fills her role. If Zaeed died, his cameo is replaced by random mercenaries. If no Samara, then Morinth. If no Samara or Morinth, then Felare. This issue had a known solve TWELVE YEARS AGO, but naturally most of the people with any talent have left BioWare in that time.
This episode will be the funeral of Dragon Age and unfortunately probably also of Mass Effect .But maybe it would be better if such a Mass Effect sequel would not be released anymore .
I love you, Ashe, but I disagree with defending this. In order to make things feel more like "my Thedas" and not "Epler's Thedas" would have been 15 choices. 15. That's all. DA:O - Who rules, did the hero of Ferelden die, dark ritual, who they romanced, Sten's fate DA2: Did a sibling join the wardens, Hawke's gender and what are their relationship with Varric DAI: Other than three there: The well of sorrows, Blackwall's fate, Iron Bull's fate, who is divine, fate of the wardens Those 15 choices would have been enough to make it matter, and some of them have been cliff hangers for 15 years. This decision was made because it was easy. They had to know the backash, and didn't truly care because they're focusing on a new audience instead of the original fans. It makes sense ONLY because they chose not to invest the time in existing players. Will I play Veilguard? Yes, when it goes on sale. Has this killed my hype? Yes, absolutely.
@@austenschiratti397 It's gonna have Denuvo and considering Empress had gone on an indefinite hiatus, you'd probably have to wait for a year for it to be pirated.
@@valmiro4164 Thankfully, I'm in no rush to experience mediocrity. Already waited ten years for an RPG that concludes the story, which Veilguard apparently has no intention of being, so what is one more?
@@Cameron-fk5fkthis is not the dunk you think it is, commenting it multiple places, given that every MCU movie does in fact reference things that happened in previous ones. Even if it’s a one-liner. Which is all we ever fucking wanted so our illusion could be maintained.
They definitely chose the lazy route. I agree with the choices you've listed (although I would have preferred a couple of more), and those choices would be enough to satisfy me. So they're catering to new fans, okay, then add a worldstate for those who didn't play the other games and call it something that wouldn't imply canon because there is no canon. If the new fans like Veilguard, in my mind that would make them more likely to buy the previous games as well to get the whole story and set their own custom world for a new playthrough of Veilguard. More likely to buy potential DLC even. I really can't fathom this decision and it's a very bad one and Bioware really need this game to do good.
5:17 how would giving the player the ability to set up the flags for prior game events during in-gave dialogue can be reasonably conaidered as a possibility when the whole point is reducing the amount of plot deviations ands complexity the new writers have to deal with? Overall this decision by the zombie Bioware comes across as a cope out. They want to use the brand name and world of Dragon Age without doing the leg work.
But Kieran being born should be a choice cause it effects morrigan’s character and if flemeth has urthemiel’s soul or not which would indicate that flemeth found another way to cheat death without being mythal’s vessel
@@Cameron-fk5fk Kieran affecting Morrigan is part of her arc in DAI, in which her personality starkly contrasts with how she was in DAO. And since Kieran is not represented in Veilguard, then what is her personality supposed to be? My best guess is that she's simply Mythal now, since that would allow resetting her as a character and undoing her entire character arc without having to worry about continuity. And maybe I'm talking out of me arse here, but based on the plethora of your copy and pasted comments replying to various people, you seem like a disingenuous little troll.
@@Cameron-fk5fk I guess my comment got deleted but Kieran affecting Morrigan's personality is literally part of her arc in DAI, which I've played plenty.
@@Cameron-fk5fk I can't remember if it was part of my deleted comment or another comment altogether, but I think the best way to write around Kieran would be to assume that Flemeth sent Mythal's essence into the mirror before Solas killed her in DAI's epilogue, and that Morrigan later found the essence to merge with it and went full circle by becoming what she feared becoming in the first game. So any potential disparity with Morrigan's personality could be easily chalked up to the spirit's influence over her mind. I hope that's the route that BioWare took.
Bioware: "Oh, we're so back!" (unless you include the past Dragon age games, Bioware doesn't care about the fanbase there- they're trying to attract a new, younger fanbase & they assume the new fanbase doesn't care about lore or the Hero of Ferelden or Hawke) Gee, no wonder so many bioware originals fled. It's like they ushered in an entirely new team to bioware who never studied the past games or cared about their past fanbase. I hope mods fix these obvious mistakes Bioware was all too happy to keep in their new game. I want to know what happened to my HoF; Who by the way, became Queen of Ferelden & married King Alistair. I was beyond thrilled to have gotten a letter from the Queen of Ferelden/ aka: HoF to my Inquisitor- that's the content I expect in Veilguard. I sacrificed Hawke in Inquisition because she was a hollow shell of her former self from DA2- she was incredibly toned down & poorly written in DAI. My Inquisitor romanced Blackwall as well - Most of us don't expect in-person appearances of our past favourite characters, but we would like the acknowledgement that the past choices we made mattered. I'd want a mentioning about the Queen & King of Ferelden (alistair & cousland) I'm holding my wallet for the reviews. I get that being in a different part of the world would set a tone shift and not every detail will matter to Rook or their story- but what about Morrigans son? (she can have a son with the Warden, Loghain or Alistair) Where is this plotline? Because it seemed really important. Even if Morrigan mentions her son in some simple way would be enough. The warden, whether you're queen of ferelden or just the hero was looking for a cure if they were still alive after the events of DAO. Don't get me started on how lackluster the Qunari look. Bioware dropped the ball on their designs yet again-- it seems only unplayable/non-main characters that are Qunari are the ones that look awesome. I hope mods fix the lazy design choice there. It's like the Cullen thing all over- how shitty he was in DA2 to basically be "reinvented" for a romance option in Inquisition- while I think it was cool that he was in Inquisition, I don't think he deserved the pedestal he was given for being a POS in DA2. I don't think Bioware is "back" in the way people assume. But I do believe DAV will do more than okay if you dismiss any lore expectations & only care about combat/ romances
Have to disagree with my dear, invalidating the world you build over years is not something anyone wanted. If none of those things mattered why build a website specifically to keep track of your story all the way back to Origins leading up to Veilguard? You woukdn't have bothered and made every game it's own story with set cannon going forward, but they didn't and instead went for an over arching story that connected them through your decisions. To break it down to three simple choices after 10 years doesn't make sense. Its the same thing Mass Effect 3 did which got backlash by all fans for how it ended and from the looks of it the same thing is be done here just right from the get go. If they didn't want to connect these games through your choices then every previous game they should have just been a straight forward story with nothing to connect them but references not what was built.
The frustrating part of this isn't really that your previous choices don't affect Veilguard. It is that the illusion that this is your story is gone. I don't really mind that Veilguard doesn't care that I gave Bella money to start a tavern in Origins or that Hawke had a pirate girlfriend. But considering they bothered to make the Keep, it seems ridiculous to not allow us to import decisions from it. I don't expect Morrigan to immediately introduce herself shouting about her potential baby or potential Warden love interest. But now she's here it feels weird it does not matter.
I appreciate that you tried to look on the bright side but for me the choices and how they affect the world no matter how big or small is key to dragon age and not having that means it may as well not be a sequel at all. Also I hate the excuse that they may add more choices in dlc we should need to pay even more money to fix the developers mistakes
I've been a big fan for a long time, but I have to say, I think you largely painted this issue to simply. Yes, there is some reality with how much the previous games went in different directions it made sense many decisions from past games were not going to carry over. But, man, 3 choices just isn't enough, straight up. The other questions didn't even need to directly impact the story to still make the universe feel more connected. Just background dialogue about how the south is handling the news would help the game feel more lived in without question. If you didn't play Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 had the web comic were you could decide the key narrative points of the previous game. Would it really be that hard to cover basic stuff from the previous games (Who rules Fereldan, Orzammar, Orlais, did Morrigan have the child, who leads the Southern Chantry) just for flavor dialogue in the background? I don't think that's asking for too much. In fact, I think that's basically asking for the bare minimum.
totally agree with your points. In my opinion, Veilguard does not look like a squeal made for the original fans, because, why don't the original games and their choices matter then? Not using Keep is a huge middle finger to all of us that played all the games thinking we could influence the world and story, it is unforgivable. I suspect the reason is that this game was meant to be a live service until very recently and thus the game was not designed with our world-states in mind. Veilguard looks like a soft-reboot for a new modern audience with much less dark fantasy. It is certainly not a return to form and not for me at least.
I don't know if anyone remembers, but back in 2012, when ME 3 was released, there was a default world state for those who didn't play previous games, which was a nightmare. Most, if not all of the crew was dead, many of the bad choices were canonized. So it's not like Bioware hasn't done it before. But here the studio is just lazy, it took 10 years to make this final installment of the franchise, and this is the "best" they can do.
Agreed they just lazy or there talent is just not there anymore, this should have been the ultimate DA game as it has to be so many things so many different people.
I need to emphasize that last bit. It took 10 years to make this final installment. Who the fuck in Bioware said "this is the culmination of decades of world building. Perfect time for a clean slate and fish for new players!" Hearing we might have to wait for an hypothetical DLC or DA5 (such fragile concepts by the look of it) is heartbreaking. If they wanted a clean slate they should have made this game be the conclusion that prompted the clean slate for the next installment. Making it all the way around makes not sense and it definitely won't happen because in that's scenario where DA5 is finally a game for the fans, their own SOOOO precious new gamers might not be interested. They'll want a continuation to Veilgard so now we're divided. Who will they please? Us that have been with them for decades? The new fans that want their continuation? Or will they again forget about both of us in the persuit of yet again more new players?
The one excluded choice that bothers me the most is what happened to Cole. Him turning more human or spirit cause pretty major differences to the character, which means there's basically 0% chance he'll show up in DAV. Even though he was the closest to Solas, the only one who still trusted him in Trespasser, and the only one who approved if Inky said they wanted to save him - even Varric didn't. So him being excluded is absolute nonsense. Characters like Feynriel, Fenris and Zevran would have a reason to appear, but since they can all be dead I can accept their exclusion. But leaving the one person who was guaranteed to still care about Solas (not you, Varric) is just absurd.
You shouldn't even be able to notice the devs preferences with characters and romances. Yet, we do. It's heavily screwed into Sollavelan. Those 3 choices all necessary for that ship. You can't even be friends with Solas and pick stop at all cost because they will 100% reduce your relationship to that choice UNLESS you also click the romance tile. They want this to be acceptable to new players? Then why is a Sollavelan Inquisitor default?! Why include Morrigan, a character with a huge history attached, with zero choices about her? Why the hell is Varric still here? If they wanted to cut it off, then stop with the old characters all together. Don't pick YOUR favorites. My Inquisitor isn't even possible to exist with those 3 choices, and I didn't even want them to return at all.
Well, only female Lavellan can romance Solas. So if you got a male one then you're home free. Otherwise I suggest clicking on romance and picking Cullen just out of spite.
I firmly believe that they are deserving of criticism, either have the courage to say this game is a separate chapter not connected to other games in which case stop bringing back old characters as shiny trinkets, or have the ability and take the time to continue the story from where it left off. As the game creator they do have the right to say what's cannon and can write a story that applies itself to a series of decisions previously made but to just deny any and all payer actions from previous titles is lazy and cowardly. I 'm sure they weren't given time or recourses and the publishers switched deadlines and fucked up story beats, the directors came in and out, the writers lost track of previous ideas etc. You know who is completely innocent of al those fuckups and mistakes? The old players and the fans. My expectations, hopes and financial investment in this series should not be taken for granted or expected.
@@Kira11259 One could imagine the friking King/Queen of one of the largest kingdoms of Thedas, or the literal Pope of a religion who personally know Varric, Harding, and even Solas, would have a little bit of relevance in the world ending event this game is set on.
Then how come decisions we made in the South impacted the North in previosu games? If they're so seperate then why did the Qunari show up in the previous games? Why did we stumble into people from Tevinter again and again? The premise of it not mattering has already shattered, because it was established that it did.
@@Shinarydk that's the joke friend. It's a ridiculous choice that in the end turned Veilguard into a useless spin-off for me. I was genuinely excited for this, but now all I see is the devs lying to me and invalidating all my choices.
I understand the points you made in this video, but it’s hard to justify the reasoning behind them when we’ve seen BioWare capable of fulfilling these responsibilities in the previous games. For me, the story is what has me drawn to, excited, and rooting for the game. So yes, I hope that it is great, not just good. But a lot of what I picked up on in this video is, “it won’t matter that these small things happened anyway, because how does it effect blank realistically? We want good quality storytelling, not myriad choices that tangle the narrative.” But, this essentially banks of the games narrative being so great that we can accept we had to sacrifice player autonomy. I don’t want to be pessimistic about the game, but the idea that the developers didn’t want to implement previous game changing decisions, probably means they didn’t want to think about them. Their affects on the world and the people. On the surface, having only three choices to make, two of them from a DLC, just feels cheap for the legacy of DA. But underneath that, it’s sad and it’s lazy. We’ve waited about ten years for this game, but it feels like a lot to just hope the streamlined story version for veilguard will be so good that we’ll feel better about not seeing the legacy of the previous games. We’ve always had the default canon, but let’s be honest, most of us who have played these games at least three different times have done it to see our own choices played out.
I think the bad decisions behind The Keep and player-choice is not solely for new fans. You don't look at Inquisition, its divisiveness included, and how/why so many new people got invested in DA through that game, then look at Veilguard and think "Yeah, this is the right move." Veilguard gives only incentive to play Inquisition. Which leads to an incentive to play, or at least learn about, 2 and Origins. Which THEN LEADS to disappointment with Veilguard. So contrary to the "Marvel-ification" idea, I think they're trying to break the interconnectedness between each game, going forward, and maybe even make it to where each new installment is its own thing, possibly. Which is very dumb, that'd be too anti-BioWare. They must either have so much confidence that Veilguard is going to kill it on its own, or they're genuinely making stupid decisions out here. Or both??
"Quantum" is just an excuse for BioWare not doing their jobs, and it was never a problem for them beyond rousing them from their laziness. Leliana is "quantum". Did it stop BioWare from bringing her back? How about Oghren? How about Anders? How about Morrigan or Alistair for that matter? Nope. Even characters like Wynne, Zevran, and Loghain for crying out loud are "quantum" and BioWare had no problem bringing them back as optional cameos. The beauty of Old BioWare is they set up these characters to be able to return under special circumstances, or they were given understudies to replace them in worldstates where they died. New BioWare just doesn't want to be bothered to program the various options for players to choose from. New BioWare hates player choice and keeping track of all the branching paths, even if those paths can be tied together. And this is why Rook has so few dialogue options in the game, and why Rook speaks for the player so often. This is another example of BioWare giving us a pre-set protagonist, only this one is even more on-rails than Hawke was. Wrong. Epler's answer was not only nonsense, it was factually incorrect. Our choices don't matter if they are not going to be referenced in the latest game. Sten being the Arishok or not is a major outcome that should affect Veilguard, but it doesn't because BioWare can't be bothered to write or code it into the game. Even if they had given Sten an understudy who takes the same policy positions, that would have at least been something. Instead BioWare is asking us to headcanon our worldstates onto Veilguard's blank canvas. No thanks. I'm not being paid to finish BioWare's game for them, nor am I being given the game for free. So my choice will be to not purchase BioWare's incomplete game. As for Epler not saying our choices didn't exist, that is exactly what Veilguard does by not including Lace as a romance option for the Inquisitor. BioWare couldn't even put in the effort to create a conflict between the Inquisitor and Rook over Lace's romance. Instead they nullified the Lace romance in order to make her a romance in the new game. So Epler is either lying or just ignorant of the details of the game he just presided over. No one is asking for choices that reached their natural conclusions to be continued. End stories that have ended. Continue stories that have a new chapter to them. Zevran is an example of this. They had no problem bringing him back in DA2, even though he had two opportunities to die in Origins. They made it so he couldn't die in DA2. Bring him back in Veilguard and give him special interactions with The Crows. And in worldstates where he is dead, simply give those players nothing. They don't get to see that extra content... unless they go back and play a new worldstate and make the choice to spare him. Hence leading to what Dragon Age was always meant to foster... REPLAY VALUE! Epilogue slides have never been reliable pieces of information, and have always been subject to rewrites. But if you really want to hold up epilogue slides, then how about the Hero of Ferelden's stating that his or her story is not yet complete? And as for certain characters being retired or dead, Veilguard's options don't allow you to specify that. Cassandra could have been romanced but ended it to become Divine. Rainier could have been romanced but ended it to join the Wardens. Hissrad could have been romanced but ended it with betrayal. Veilguard doesn't account for these choices. Why is that? Either BioWare overlooked it, or the romance choice doesn't actually matter. Some speculate that the romance choice is really only there to determine if Solas was romanced or not, and none of the other characters will be referenced. Either way, this is an example of BioWare not caring about our past choices, and it explains their disdain for present choices as well, hence why Rook has so few options. Uh... the Divine is still the Divine of the Anderfels, Nevarra, Antiva, and everything in-between. All places the players will be visiting in Veilguard. Only Tevinter and Rivain would be unaffected, and even that's a maybe. And what do you mean would their reforms be felt by the time Veilguard takes place? It's eight YEARS after Trespasser. The affects of those Divines were already being felt IN Trespasser, according to Mother Giselle. If we could decide worldstate choices during the game, BioWare would have said so by now in order to cut off the negative press. Instead they have confirmed that only three choices are recognized from Trespasser, and they have even made excuses to justify this terrible decision. So no, players WON'T be able to decide any worldstate choices during the game. Put down the copium pipe. Busche told Mr. Matty there will be no DLCs. Most of BioWare's workers were fired. BioWare knows Veilguard will not sell well. And there will be no Dragon Age 5. Technically there won't even be a Dragon Age 4, since this game ain't it. The answer is to carry the past into the present and write interesting future paths for it. Dragon Age must provide for various alternate paths for different players to walk. If the story and its branches become too large and unwieldy, then you tie plots together into similar outcomes were you can, and end plots where necessary. But you DON'T leave plots hanging or forget about them entirely. Calling back to Trespasser's terrible writing is not going to make Veilguard's terrible writing seem any better. Trespasser is where this lazy style of design began, with the story being put on rails, characters being turned into idiots, and the player's choices being restricted into two choices that are actually more like one. As for the Inquisitor, players can't even select if he or she is a mage or not, or if the Inquisitor drank from the Well. So it isn't like the Inquisitor will play an important role in the game anyway. This is why Varric was the one being used to confront Solas, rather than the Inquisitor, which is what Trespasser hinted at. And just like with the romance choice, some fans speculate the Inquisitor is only being included to provide for closure for a possible Solas romance. The Inquisitor taking up arms to do WHAT? Save the world again? No, that would not be a major political crisis. This is especially the case if the person is now the ex-Inquisitor. A nobody. And even if you don't want the Inquisitor fighting, the possibility of him or her being a mage should play a significant role in how helpful he or she is, especially if a Rift Mage. Same with the Inquisitor being a templar or not. Hissrad can betray the Inquisitor. So are you saying that romance only exists if he becomes tal-vashoth? So then what option do the betrayed Inquisitors pick? The No Romance option? You don't see the problem with this? The real importance behind the Well is how helpful the Inquisitor or Morrigan can be. Since neither one can be specified as the one who drank, it means neither one will divulge secrets from the Well. Or, at the very least, that neither one will be credited for it. Also, there is more importance to Morrigan being the one who drank. If she did, that means she personally participated in the fight against Corypheus and helped stop his dragon. It enhances her as a character. The inclusion of past choices has nothing to do with understanding the new protagonist better. We had no problem with this in the previous games, which DID carry our choices over from the previous game(s). It doesn't matter if past choices would affect Rook's story or not. We should see our choices either way. It's about immersion and wish fulfillment. And besides, there ARE past choices that could affect Rook. The choice on Avernus, or Hawke's sibling, or Rainier, could affect a Grey Warden Rook. Choices involving Cassandra could affect a Mourn Watch Rook. Choices around Ignacio or Zevran could affect the Crow Rook. The South needs more than 8 years to recover? Even though recovery was going well after just 2 years according to Trespasser? Ha. Okay. This "mess" is technically another "Blight", and another world-ending threat. So this "mess" should only include the South and past characters, not exclude them. Or are Elgar and Ghil going to stop their mess at the borders of the southern nations? The Hero/WC, Champion/Other Warden, and (ex-)Inquisitor should absolutely be involved in this story as well as Rook, who is relatively a nobody compared to these other protagonists. I'm not saying include them the whole time, but they need some major roles to play. Wrong. Strawman argument. No one is asking for every choice, or every permutation. Just the important ones that would play a reasonable role in Veilguard. Shame on the fan council for letting BioWare get away with using you as an echo chamber and shutting you up the moment you disagreed with one of their major decisions. No, it doesn't make sense. There are numerous choices from the trilogy that should be accounted for in Veilguard. And guess what, Veilguard's narrative is weak and confusing anyway. Or did Solas propping up his super important ritual with plywood not tip you off to that? How about the fact Solas left his eluvian wide open for anyone to follow him through? Or leaving himself unguarded while performing the ritual? Or how about Neve getting herself captured on purpose, even though she knew it was important for us to meet with her and stop Solas as soon as possible? No, Veilguard is badly written, and BioWare was lazy to not include variations in the story based on past choices. This is the result of untalented, woke hacks.
But it doesn't actualize the romance since he betrays you and dies during the betrayal. It suffers from the same problem as Blackwall, where there's a conditional behind whether he's alive or not.
@@Ladyinsanity i feel that still counts? as it is a dynamic, allbeit a sweet lie and manipulation in order to help keep a closer eye on the inquisitor. reducing choices like that to simple "just who did you romance" doesnt really account for the weight of said choices.
Yup, not disagreeing with that at all. What I mean is that the nuance is gone, as in those conditions of how the romance plays out is missing, so Keep seems incomplete to me
@@Ladyinsanity thats certainly not a positive sadly, for me the keep allowed replays of inquisition to be more lively and interesting. sad that doesnt seem to be possible with Veilguard
So, did DAI. The issue though is that Mass Effect was wrapped up in trying to respect player choice that the whole game suffered for it. We had no side quests of substance, most of our companions didn't rejoin and we were back to six (seven counting Javik) companions. Mass Effect felt a lot smaller in these regards because it had to deal with so many choices. And while that is cool the story we all came for would suffer.
sorry lady, but its dunk eating. Big Dan said it right: taking away DAV's right to choose is not a way of saying that all decisions are important, but to give a fuck about them.
At end of the day they are a AAA Games sudio though. You'd think they would spend little bit more money on getting extra devs on the choices since, well that's what dragon age is about. The choices and them choices affecting the following games. At least the big choices you made that are important or relevant. Obviously since Morrigan is in the game, you would think any choice you made with her would be relevant. Then again she's probably quick camo and then disappears.
Okay I'm not buying into this, they got rid of the keep but they couldn't even give us the Well of Sorrows choice considering its significance for Morrigan or the Inquisitor whoever drank from it.
Hard disagree. Choices are what made Dragon Age games. I can understand some things being omitted, but a big deal like "Is Alistair King" not even mentioned is criminal. Having these plots mentioned in codex would have been better than nothing at all. Defending this decision is...odd.
many characters deserved to return: HOF who was looking for the cure for corruption. ISABELLA AND ZEVRAN. What happened to Merril and Fenris? Not to mention Hawke who I'm convinced didn't die in FADE. Cassandra and Leliana who are the pillars of this game. Luckily we have Morrigan
You just don't understand, a decade isn't enough to make a new game. It's because, uh... you know, reasons and... alright, I'll just pay you to say good things about that game in your video, ok? /s Well, at least is not a MMO.
So, in essence, what you're saying is Bioware didn't want to do the work the was done in DAO, DA2, DAI, ME, ME2, AND ME3, basically? Each of those games featured "quantum characters," as you have described them. Bioware of old was willing to do the work, after all it was THIER IDEA! THIS team is only interested in making ridiculous excuses and offering up explanations that don't hold water. They played and replayed Trespasser repeatedly and forgot that there were 3 games that preceded that DLC. No, they wanted to reboot the series but are calling DAV a continuation, which it is not, for marketing purposes I'd assume. If you remove a person's history, that person becomes another person entirely. Therefore, every "returning" character is only a hollow shell with a brand new default history. The same is true for the world itself. So much for choices mattering. Spin it any way you like, for me, this game IS NOT Dragon Age! True, it is their game, and they can do whatever they want with it. Problem is, I don't have to buy it.
I canceled my preorder. Just because something is hard doesnt mean you drop it. Dragon Age like Mass Effect was about our stories/choices or at least the illusion of it. Dragon Age Veilguard def doesnt seem like DA4 leaving out player choices.
@@Manisntthisfun wise decision. If the game against all odds is good you can always buy it later anyways. But i am of the same opinion as you. This game does not care about us original fans that o Played all the past games, since only three choices from the last one matters. Veilguard is a more lighthearted reboot of Dragon Age and not a return to form or just a simple sequel.
@@Manisntthisfun I never pre-order it because money is tight. But even then I was farming reward points to buy it. Now I'm not even waiting for to see if it's good to buy it. I'm waiting for it to inevitably hit Game Pass and play it then. They made me wait decades for this, I'm sure they can wait months. And if more people think like me and this flops marking the end of Bioware. Well... I'd like to say I'll miss them, but I already do... I've been missing Bioware since 2014. My grieving is in a different point right now.
I wouldn't have minded if the choices included The Old God's soul and The Well of Sorrows, honestly, because I was convinced that those are building up to something bigger reserved for the last game. Without them - I don't even know what this game is about anymore. It's not the conclusion I was waiting for
I can't believe who the Divine is won't even get a single mention, honestly. We're still going to Antiva, to Rivain, to Nevarre where the Southern Chantry still has some influence at least. Three choices only rather does take away from what I found unique and special about these games. I feel like even six would have been better - three major ones (which might affect how the story plays out) and three minor ones (which exist in codices and flavour, voice lines and so on). The Divine, the Well of Sorrows, the Wardens. Can't believe those things aren't going to have any effect at all.
I just want to know what my HoF is doing, and if Kieran is alive and well, and how was he supposed to play into everything with Mythal wanting his God soul.
Every time I see a video concerned about Dragon Age 4 half of them devolve into complaining about diversity. Not talking about the real issues of and concerns of the Dragon Age series future installment. We have real concerns about Dragon Age 4 but it's being distracted by cultural war nonsense.
So I've noticed things in the keep, like the hungry deserter, didn't get acknowledged in Dragon Age Inquisition Seems some things in the keep are just placebos, if they ever shut down the keep, they should put the tapestry at the start of Inquisition because we tend to replay these games and all the default choices are Bantha Poodoo. Some of the placebo choices can be removed if they do that. Still, one thing I'm sad about, I guess we'll never see Bethany Hawke & Tallis again 😥 In Kotor 2, I had to get a mod so a light side female protagonist in the first game wasn't forced to be in a Carth romance, no more "she loved Carth" lies. Once I saw that the mod gave Bastilia as an option, I definitely got the mod for the first game to experience that too When I play Devil's Advocate, I'm like: "Look, but don't touch! Touch, but don't taste! Taste, but don't enjoy!" (I'm making a reference to a movie here lol 🤪) So did anyone let Flemeth walk away in Dragon Age Origins 🤔, did the end of Dragon Age Inquisition's main campaign involve that version of Flemeth or the piece from the amulet. Did the two Flemeth versions go back together after a peaceful resolution. I'm still looking forward to the game, I'm just wondering what the point was for some of those choices in the keep I wonder if we'll ever get a second Jade Empire, it does seem like the BioWare game that many fans forgot, "remember the basics!"
I don't care about the fate of minor characters. But the fate of the companions, major choices should be accounted for. Even the Witcher 3 managed to do that. And that was already a very limited input option.
I like your take quite a bit compared to how it has been explained, however I am going to say that there is one big way they could of done this and I wouldn't of been so peeved over it. Time. Here, Varric is still alive, so is Harding and presumably other members in past games. After all its only ten years. I find it hard to believe that with all the movers and shakers we have interacted with that none of them would get involved when they discover the guy who blew up the last divine is now in Tevinter doing another ritual. Redemption wanting or not. This could all be smoothed out if say 200 years or some other long time went by. We can say that Solas went down into a rabbit hole of the Fade and time got weird for him. Only a few grand choices would have an impact lasting so long such as the Inquisition, Morrigan having the baby or not/us following her into the Eluvian (Yeah this decision better be referenced somehow as we still have no idea what happened to our Warden if we did this!!!), Grey Wardens after Inquisition, and other important bits like that. With a huge time gap, I would of been fine with only the largest decisions making it through. Three is terribly low for only ten years after the sky literally split open. Why not just get started on a new trilogy with Solas as the main bad guy-esque? A new trilogy can justify a new art style and focusing more on the Tevinter landscape with their issues and plunging the depths of the Fade. Would of been a lot better tha trying to pull a bait and switch saying "look a sequel...haha just kidding its only a sequel in name and nothing you did mattered after we got that preorder money from ya!".
Its not enough that i feel like i waited years for nothing i wanted to come to light but now it doesnt feel like im playing in my own unique world anymore.
You make it sound like acknowledging decisions from past games and making a coherent and compelling narative for Veilguard are mutually exclusive, when they are not. Most people are fine with acknowledgement through cameos, dialogue references and codex entries without these choices having any real impact on how Veilguard plays out. From a practical point of view, they can't account for all past choices on Veilguards story though it's still ridiculous to suggest that southern Thedas wouldn't impact or influence nothern Thedas whatsoever, that's not how it works in the real world and not how it should work in Dragon Age either. So instead of appeasing a large part of the fanbase with nods to choices from past games, they just annoy everyone because they can't even do that
Ive heard from colleagues that are game developers that transitioning various choices from past games to follow up gamea, in the tech side, is a huge ordeal in at itself. So i understand that, but DA Keep was supposed to be a tool to not only archive and help build a story in and around thedas, but also help future games be able to tranfer a limited set of choices on and foward, and they had plans to add more features to it. So, to me, it felt like a huge loss and dissapoinment. Even in DAI, although not directly but throufh the War Table, you still got to make choices that influences various part of thedas from the Anderfels up to rivan and tevinter, so our of those 100+ choices only picking three with that reasoning just took the wind out of my sails.
This ISN'T going to to be a Red Dead Redemption 2 where we all complain about previous games and the glorious new story is so good we all collectively shut up and become die hard fans of Veilgard... And I know that because Bioware has already tried Maki standalone narratives with Andromeda and Anthem. They're sacrificing world building and continuation for nothing. They can't make a RDR2 we know this.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I do think that this is one of the best-edited videos on Veilguard coverage I've watched. :)I hope you keep making videos about the game as time goes on. I was hoping to find more of a bright side tbh :') I still don't want to get my hopes up for "telling characters how things Really Happened in conversations," but I am just very disappointed to think that Morrigan, Varric, Harding, have none of the character development that we saw in their paths that we were able to influence. Yes, they have "their own free will" but - Hawke, Varric's dearest, longest friend, is either 10 years missing, or not. Morrigan is either a mother, or not. The idea that neither case *matters* for *who they are now* at all as they interact with the world and with new people and new teams... We *saw* that they were deeply effected when those events happened. And if they are *not* changed by those events, then to me that says that no, those events *didn't* happen. And while overall I agree with the "we're not in Southern Thedas anymore," and "this is Rook's story, and that's pretty much just about the Blight and the Evanuris" ...Nevarra and its unique relationship to the Southern Chantry, and Nevarra and Antiva and Rivain's history with the Mage/Templar War and the Chantry/Circle structures, would absolutely, absolutely, be effected by the Southern Divine. If those have no bearing on the *story* and how the *story goes* and there's simply never a good moment to interact with them, fine, but to think that there is *no tangible effect on the world* is kind of antithetical to "your canon exists :)" when we are, in fact, interacting with parts of the world that were influenced by things we have done. There are giant statues of Andraste in the Southern-Andrastian/Qun-contested Rivain. Nevarra is the *seat* of the College of Magi and the Grand Enchanter of the Southern Chantry Circles. That those places aren't shaped at all by whether the Circles are abolished or reinstated is... really head-scratching. Unless they never happened. I understand paring down. I understand that there was an element of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" regarding disappointing fans by the idea of having cameos vs. codex entries. I am hopeful that they somehow managed to thread the needle of giving beloved past characters and the world the texture that feels like anything we did in the past actually effected them. But as it stands I don't, I really don't, think that leaving everything by the wayside was the best option. And so far nothing I've heard has really assuaged that feeling 😢
I'm with you 100% here. It also feels so... bitter, to have three games' worth of characters and choices boiled down to "realistically, Rook wouldn't know." I'm not really looking for a realistic, boring timeline in my fantasy video game series, I'm looking for the satisfaction of watching pieces i've set in motion land where they may. The whole point of this being an interactive story was that my end result was supposed to be different depending on the choices I made. I still plan on buying and enjoying the game, and so far I've seen little to make me wary of the story/character arcs we go through, but man, I don't think it ever won't be disappointing that the writing team decided to fall behind the "realistically, you wouldn't know" approach instead of taking the time to write out even a few codex entries or ambient dialogue. DA games have always had a default world state good for new players, with the Option to add in previous choices if you had them--I don't understand why that couldn't happen again for Veilguard. ESPECIALLY for events that really would have long-reaching repercussions, like the Divine, Kieran's existence, the Well, who's stuck in the Fade, the Empress, if HoF found the cure for the Calling, etc.
I appreciate ppl defending and being hopeful. We did wait 10 yrs but honestly the more ik about it the more i can see it for what it is the game was just rushed and compressed
If they wanted new fans they shouldn't have done a sequel to DAI at all. Even the choices they picked that mattered from DAI are bland and pretty much similar. I'm sure that many off us didn't feel overwhelmed when we started Witcher 3 before Witcher 2 and dialogue options prodded if we played the previous. It's called being lazy, on both the Keep thing and writing
Here's how I personally view it, since I'm currently replaying Inquisition. A lot of the choices we made in the trilogy boiled down to just small references, with the biggest ones being which Warden you meet in Inquisition and if Kieran exists (and if so if it was through the ritual or just regular romance). Anders dead or alive? doesn't matter outside of maybe a small war map event, our Warden dead or alive? Also ultimately doesn't matter since, unlike Hawke, we don't meet them directly anyway. I think the simple fact is that a lot of the old decisions already have had their culmination in the minds of Bioware. Like the epilogue for a romanced Leliana and the Warden kind capping of her character arc entirely (especially if she is Divine). Kieran having the soul of an elder god also more or less gets undone in Inquisition, too. So there is honestly not that much they could even import over into Veilguard that wouldn't boil down to a small codex entry or a reference in dialogue. Exception being choices that were made directly in Inquisition, of which they at least have some; but ultimately they did fumble that, too, because it's just not enough (even if some stuff like romanced Iron Bull clearly will factor in that he didn't stay loyal to the Qun or he'd be dead by default, but that choice will boil down to a line or two from the Inquisitor and that's it, like the other romances will.).
I’m just saying why would you make the keep, then a game about ‘world breaking decisions’. I did think inquisition would have more but I could set that aside since it was so clear that they were making bigger decisions for the future. I hate this whole thing of ‘new fans’ that’s what the default world state was for. It’s a tactic to get them to go back and play the old games. I played DA2 after origins but didn’t do any dlc. There were just some missions redacted but it didn’t interfere with anything. I’m not expecting for Anders or Blackwall to show up. I do expect at least some of the decisions effecting Tevinter or the Anderfells to show up. I do expect Varric to know Hawkes gender or if they were a mage. I do expect Morrigan to know if she has a son. I don’t know what their hardon for Solas is but it’s never affected me and they had more plot points to go off of. I’m glad they changed the name at least.
It was never required for Bioware to have meaningful, interesting, or plentiful callbacks to earlier game decisions. Not a single game decision can't be sidestepped by a contrivance until the HoF's hero journey and Champion of Kirkwall's tale are indeed as irrelevant as Redcliffe's citizens left to be butchered by the undead. After all, the devs themselves are offering not these thought-out explanations you're providing in this vid for why even the most impactful player choices can be ignored. Instead they just say events are up north... so far north apparently that nothing that's happened in Thedas in any of the previous games affected it whatsoever... other than the 2 things- the Inq's romance (which may never have happened, as in my case) and the Inquisition status (likely only reflecting the Inq's motivation to be there). The 3rd player indulgence is not a callback but instead a choice of two pre-generated scene variants requiring the player's cue of an apparent intention for the Inq 10yrs later. When you come down to it, it's kinda easy then to just ignore previous DA altogether, even build all new DA games without any callbacks or impactfulness at all... if that's what you want to do. But the question really isn't "How can all previous DA player-affected content be effectively completely ignored?" I don't want to ask that question. No one other than the DA4 devs- and apparently you- want to ask that. The real question is why would a DA game be crafted without it? Why would a DA dev team intentionally disregard it? Why would they ever stoop to minimizing player involvement in the franchise so deliberately, categorically, and comprehensively? Why would Bioware ever think that a DA with hardly any meaningful, interesting callbacks is acceptable? It's a complete departure from DA. So why? Laziness. It's easier. Occam's Razor explains it best. Epler answered as such already: the "everything's in the north" sidestep was intentionally simply to avoid having to account for anything. It's not about wanting a game more focused on Rook's story. Was DA2 not about Hawke's story just because it had a cameo by Zevran (if he lived) or by Alistair (if he was made king)? Was DAI not the Inquisitor's story just because both the HoF and Hawke- or even potentially Loghain- wander through that story as well? It's an asinine suggestion that Rook's story requires nullification of previous DA experience. Almost sounds like fear of comparisons- or a sense that the HoF, CoK, and Inq were of a different caliber. If a Rook requires the removal of previous protagonists, that is in no way necessary to DA, the lore, or the gameworld itself. It's a decision based on an attitude by the devs toward the franchise as a whole. They simply don't care about previous DA player decisions. Not even smaller ones. NONE matter to them. ALL are thrown into the book-burning pile, as far as they're concerned. Henceforth there shall be ONLY the new Bioware's material (still greedily taking advantage of Gaider's original lore, of course), and thou shalt worship no other DA content than the new team's. Or, as Epler says in pure cynicism, you can go play the other content: it's just not welcome here anymore...
Or... we can call it for what it is. Laziness. And chasing after new audience, while continuously showing the middle finger to their long-time supporters. Also: Ashe: "For him to use that power would be devastatingly out of character". Would it, though? Solas to Rook: "Firstly, I abohore the use of blood magic. Secondly, had I the power to control you, I would already have used it."
I hate this performative "your playthrough is valid!" nonsense by the devs. Your playthrough is valid, only we don't care about it and aren't going to address it. Which means, they are going to intentionally do things that invalidate my playthrough by pretending they didn't happen or had no impact. They can't have it both ways: you can't pretend to care about player choice and "choices that matter" but then tell your returning players that nothing they really did mattered accept 3 specific things. But this is sort of like their approach to LGBTQIA+ inclusion: being pansexual is the most inclusive sexuality ever! so it's better than all the others and it's the only one worth including, right? SOME people in that LGBTQIA+ acronym just matter more than others, I guess. And some don't matter at all to the devs. But you're valid uwu!!!
I understand when choices are omitted because they are not relevant to what the story is about. Everyone can understand this but MORRIGAN IS IN THE FUCKING GAME!! One of the biggest and most important character! Choices relating to her has massive effects and implications. Without her there would be no Ferelden left!
I'm pretty sure you can play dao without her (she only comes to offer the Dark Ritual option) and still conquer the blight, plus be alive, thanks to Loghain's or Alustair's sacrifice. Still, I do agree that her having Kieran should matter (and ngl I'd love to see him in Veilguard).
@murono22 The Well of Sorrows gives the solution to kill Corypheus' dragon. If your Quizzy drinks from it, they tame a dragon and Morrigan has nothing to do with it. Edit: specifically, the voices of the priests preserved in the Well
Sorry Ashe, even though it feels to me you have selected your words very carefully here, I don't think even you believe many aspects of this take. Reason is simple: If not pointing to Baldur's Gate 3 with an almost infinite number of permutations, even DA:I did it much better than this. I never intended to buy this game at the start anyways. Maybe after some reviews are out and they have to be 90%+, I may consider it.
If they’d reveal the 3 choices thing much sooner. All of this would had happened much sooner and cool down. The devs just keep making too many red flags.
@@sofajockeyUK -They kept the 3 choices in the dark until it was leaked -Virtual signaling director -no keep - claimed game is inherently very queer - pronouns and top scar - The elves(unless there half elves) and qunari look human - 10 years of development only 3 choices - Layoffs - Gets called tourists - Director don’t know who Zervan is - Disrespecting fans - Bad reasonings for the 3 choices - Woke propaganda being push like every gaming company?
@@Sambo941 That's quite a dumb list. The director has clearly brought system design expertise, that's her claim to fame. The game has queer characters as BioWare games have had since Baldur's Gate II. It has pronouns. We all have pronouns. You have pronouns. You can't pick between 3 tabs? Top scars toggle for
A note: if you know my second life, please keep that between us :) Really appreciate all your patience as I figure out this strange in-between situation with that life and "Ashe".
I'm still actively involved in two projects which will keep me busy into the next year, so expect that channel and this one to continue. Sorry, you're stuck with me ^^ (And as far as the accent, I'm sure it'll correct itself eventually.)
I have no idea what you're talking about but i enjoy your videos and i hope you can figure out the balance and that everything goes well! Good luck ^^
You're totally secretly a v-tuber aren't you xD (I don't actually know. The thought just made me chuckle :3)
@@Frost212 She does have a vtuber body thing made.
You're secretly in contract with the WWE to start your new life of Professional Wrestling and set to make a quarter-million dollars in a special contract with them? How close was I with my guess? :)
I literally cried when my inky received a letter from my hof. Thats the stuff that we want. We don’t care about forced appearances from previous characters. How hard is it to write some codexes about our choices? I’m not a coder but they clearly stated the decision to NOT do it was intentional and that pisses me off.
Its literally a double blight and the end of times but everyone is missing? Fenris? Isabela in Rivain, HoF if survived/Orlesian warden Commander not present?! 10 years for what? For Rooks story? Who's to say in the next game it will be "West Thedas so rook choices don't matter"
Incorporating our choices is what made a game a Bioware game. Voiding our previous world states only makes sense, in your words, because they made it make sense, when they should have done the extra work to incorporate them. They could have made that make sense, too. Weaving our various choices into a new game is partly what made Dragon Age games so impressive in the first place.
Argument it would be hard to do
Counter argument, they had ten years
"it's not that you're isolated from your choices"
but we are? we're going to Nevarra but won't hear about the Divine, we're going to Weisshaupt but can't here about the fate of the Wardens after Here Lies the Abyss, or a snippet of who killed Urthemiel, maybe a codex entry on the cure for the calling, we literally have Harding and Varric with us, but they won't be able to talk about past stuff for... reasons?
And to your point, if they wanted to, they can write around everything. They wrote around Leliana dying in Origins. There's no inherent reason why the 3 choices they chose are the most important, because those can easily be written/handwaved away too. The fact that they can write away the choices we make doesn't make the lack of references to those choices any less satisfying or immersion-breaking.
They seem to understand flavor text is good, because we have it for weapons. But our choices, nah. They don't deserve even flavor text because Epler wants to reference Iron Bull's death in a future game in a major way, as if Bull's death will matter in a future game where we maybe are 10 years ahead in the future or further in the North of the North or wherever. In what world does that make sense. Cmon.
Play the game before you get “immersion breaking” blah blah crap going on
@@Daneplaysrpg lie to yourself if you need to but don't gaslight the rest of us like we cannot see the break in our immersion coming with all these decisions that Bioware decided was so important over being consistent lore wise
Tevinter is literally closer to the sunburst thrown than Navara is. And the Divine was appointed 10 years ago in game so no one is going to be talking about it and even if they do then it would be the Divine Justinia the 6th. As for here lies the abyss there was not many wardens left and again it was 10 years ago. Seriously Urthemiel died 20 years ago...
Also maybe just wait until the game comes out before you judge the story.
@@beaucole446 Divine Victoria, actually.
@@senigata0329 My bad, but still they wont go by their actual name.
It feels so much to me that they've overstepped in trying to attract as many new fans as possible. So much so that veterans feel let down. Completely changed the gameplay which I'm still not crazy about but I've fome to think it'll probably be very fun even if it's not what I want from Dragon Age. Solas was set up as the big bad and we've lost that as well. And now the choices thing.
I mean Morrigan is literally in the game and nothing from her past matters? Not the Dark Ritual, not her relationship with the Warden. Absolutely nothing. I mean Kieran is literally an adult now. Even if we don't get a cameo fans will naturally be curious to know what he's up to. Plus there was the implication that losing the Old God soul would have some kind of affect on his mental state. How is he coping having to live without something he was born with? There are gonna be so many unanswered questions that can be solved with a simple reference or codex entry.
(Spoilers for Veilguard) there's also the fact that there are two archdemons in the world. One might think that the fact Morrigan once preserved an Old God Soul would be relevant.
And on a much smaller note there's Feynriel. I held out so much hope he would be in this game. Because if he isn't in a game set in Tevinter we're probably never gonna see him.
And you'd think that with Inky and Morrigan both being in the game the Well would be relevant. Especially considering the villains are literally Elven Gods. How could it not matter that a present character is bound to an Elven God? If it truly means so little the choice shouldn't have existed in the first place. Even Solas himself made a huge deal about what it means to bound to an elven god. "Everything you do whether you know it or not will be for her." And now it just doesn't matter? Why? What is the thought process here?
Compare the situation to Inquisiton and even DA2, this is a massive downgrade. In DA2 you get a whole quest if you made Bhelen King where you can save the last surviving member of House Harrowmont who ventures all the way to KalSharok. In Inquisiton I got to see Loghain again and that meant so much to me considering such a small percentage of the fanbase spared him and they still thought it worth giving him such a big role in the story. Now we can't even get a simple reference?
I'm sure the game will be fun, in fact I'm still excited and counting the days but this is immensely disappointing and disheartening.
This was perfectly articulated, and matches my own train of thought on the matter. It’s indefensible on BioWare’s behalf and quite discouraging to see; after all, overarching World States are a Dragon Age staple. The thought of future installments becoming semi isolated almost makes me not want another game after Veilguard, and I’m somehow still excited to play it! I didn’t expect 600 choices to have an impact on this game, but hell if BW couldn’t have done better than 3.
Don’t even get me started on Morrigan, it’s gonna be impossible to look at DAV’s version the same. >:(
Beautifully said. IF there are two archdemons running amok in this story AND our Warden were to still be alive, what better way for their inclusion than to be there to neutralize one of them. We are going to need Grey Wardens to defeat them anyway. Does that mean Davrin doesn’t make it to the end of the game? These things all matter.
Morrigan being included and no mention of her and my characters son would be a complete letdown. Like Rook will say “Tell me about your family?” And she’ll say, “Don’t ask me personal questions.”
Just her inclusion alone in the game presents more questions, Witch-hunt as a DLC felt like it was crafted specifically for me and my first time through the game. They went through the portal together.
If there was never any intention for wrapping up these story threads that are very unique to each person playing these games, we should have all arrived at the same place with our Wardens never making it out of the first game alive.
The worst part of all this discussion about the 3 choices is that it didn't initially came directly from the devs, they kept the info hidden, until after someone on reddit (a small content creator afaik) talked about it. And I bet the devs still would have kept it hidden at least until release.
At first nearly everyone dismissed what the guy said (many called him a liar on the DA subreddit) but as the info spread, the devs and IGN began to officially share the info.
And one other issue I have is how the devs are communicating, some of them were literally gaslighting fans for asking questions about the lack of choices from previous games...
@@ZrodyApo"you better hope your favourite character wont make it to the next game or they may die!" Like ???
@@mrmasky9783thats such a weird phrase too, like not every storyline has to end in such an angsty and heartbreaking way to be interesting. We just wanted to see characters we thought would be relevant to countries/factions :(
I think they could have asked if the Hero of Ferelden sacrificed themselves to know if they have a tomb in Weisshaupt.
Yeah, exactly! Why is no one talking about this? Weisshaupt keeps memorials of the heroes of the blights. They still have Garahel's armor in there.
Wasn't that changed because we literally have memorial in Redcliffe.
that would've been amazing!
@@MrApoorvaSingh753 you are still buried in weisshaupt, like the previous 4.
Who?
And the Inquisitor and DAV being tied to Trespasser won't confuse these new players?
I rather have a half chocolate bar (codex entries) than none at all. And while I understand not every choice can be shown consequences of, I would have really loved a bit more. Kieran was impactful for Morrigan as a character and made her more empathic. It also determines if the soul of the old god Uthemiel was distroyed or went to Mythal.
I am still sad about it, will still play the game, but with less pink glasses.
I don't think the people who were upset that their favorite character was reduced to a codex entry would prefer that character doesn't get mentioned at all.
I get that they couldn't do consequences for every single choice, but I stand by my opinion that 3 is an insultingly low number that loses too much nuance.
I do think that Solas would use controlling magic on the well user because he is desperate and the effects of who drank from the well seem like it should permeate. Wouldn't an Inquisitor who had the voice of ancient elves be changed by that experience? We don't even get to decide the personality of the Inquisitor (unless that means we control their dialogue). How is Varric not going to mention Hawke's fate? I don't know if he'll die, but if he does, and Hawke is presumed dead, that should be the last name on his mouth. If Hawke isn't dead, shouldn't they have gone to Weisshaupt and shouldn't that be mentioned? In Inquisition, Cullen says the choice of divine will affect all of Thedas, so why doesn't it? Speaking of, I personally don't think Cullen needs to appear in Veilgard, but if he did for some reason, they could just change his VA since BioWare has done that before. I could go on about other consequences that should still appear in Veilgard (like Zevran) but I'll move on to the choices we have.
You made great points about how we won't know the specifics of an Inquisitor that romanced Blackwall or Cassandra. I think the other choices lack nuance too. The redeeming choice discounts the other interactions the Inquisitor had with Solas. Did they agree about spirits and were they friendly up until his betrayal? Or did they fight on every issue, but the Inquisitor believes he can be redeemed. Again, unless we control the Inquisitors dialogue, it seems we will miss out on that nuance. It seems to me, the fate of the Inquisition could only change a few lines of dialogue, either way the goal remains the same.
Again, I get that not every choice from Origins onwards could be in the game, but it feels like it takes more effort to dance around some of these choices than it does to answer them. I wouldn't mind a fresh start if they had tied up the loose ends, but as it is, there's too many questions (like why wouldn't the HoF and/or Alistair travel to fight a new blight). As you say, I hope there are more ways to declare our choices through dialogue, but based on what Epler has said, I won't hold my breath. It's so very disappointing and I don't personally understand why they made the choice.
"it takes more effort to dance around some of these choices than it does to answer them" my thoughts exactly. Zevran's case for example, he is the boss of the antivan crows IF he didn't die in origin, he also changed the crows philosophy. How a Rook with a crow backstory is going to dodge the subject of who their boss is or if his faction is cruel or helpful etc..
I've said it before and I'll say it here, too:
You are allowed to be upset with the excuses given for important choices not carrying over. BioWare brought in our favourite lore nerds (like Ghil) to make sure the story was consistent, and then completely dismissed their concerns.
They've given their reasons, but it doesn’t justify how disconnected The Veilguard feels from our prior experiences in Dragon Age. Many are now feeling how Origins fans have felt for years; pushed aside in favour of attracting new players to a franchise already four games deep.
This decision cuts out what made the series special: continuity and the personal connection to past choices. The focus on Solavellan players is a slap in the face to fans who, after a decade of anticipation, expected better. You’re not wrong to feel like they’ve let us down.
It’s not a deal breaker for me but I’m still very disappointed by BioWare’s decision to abandon The Keep and our ability to import world states.
As of now Trespasser is the only thing in the entire series that actually mattered. Not only does that hurt immersion for players but it also hurts replayability.
if that is not a huge middle finger to many of the old fans i dont know what is. I at least played the games thinking i would influence the world of Thedas and tailor the story. Wont buy this game, the Bioware and Dragon Age i knew and loved has devolved into something i have no desire to experience. It makes me so sad since Dragon Age is my favorite fictional universe and Bioware was my favorite gameing company for a long time.
@@Druller-y9p I agree but at the same time. Any choice taken in DAO hardly impacted DA2 other than superficial stuff like cameos. Then any choice you took in DA2 did not really mattered since the ending was set in stone: The mages in the circles rebel and Hawke goes into exile. After that, DAI decided that instead of the story revolving around that conflict, it would be resolved in 5 minutes and the rest of the story was about closing breaches in the Veil.
It's almost the same with Mass Effect, where the options you took through the game got reduced to nothing in the Grand Scheme of things.
I don't think the rest of the series didn't matter. Because they've been very clear that *anything* is still fair game for the future. Not that it's just being thrown out, never to be touched again. And it's very likely we will see the series continue, since sales are currently on target.
@@TheP1x3l "since sales are currently on target."
@@RockoEstalon Those superficial stuff were still worth something because they made each player's worldstate feel unique and added to that sense of continuity Bioware games were known for.
The previous games still had references to those choices in the form of dialogue from NPCs, codex entries, small cameos, and flavour text. Bioware never did a phenomenal job with taking into account our choices but they at least _tried._ It was a compromise we were willing to have. But now, we won't even get _that_ anymore, as if they've given up entirely. It's clear they don't care about the fans that have supported them for over a decade at this point.
Heartbreaking, baffling, inexcusable. The announcement was tantamount to being told that the game we’ve been waiting for for ten years is actually never coming out. 15 years of devotion to this franchise, only to find out that the people now in charge of the don’t love it for the same reason as we do. I’ll never get to play in the Thedas I saved again
Ideally this is a crisis that one would have expected the participation of a community council during development could have flagged and prevented, but I suppose nothing could be done when at the end of the day the shepherds of this story care more about attracting new fans than giving a single damn about the people who’ve been waiting all along
Oh, could you add a little more overwrought melodrama?
Your decisions still happened, why are you struggling with this? Is there a problem with object permanence? Do you need Morrigan to address the camera about her relationship history to feel anything mattered?
I wish some of these “fans” would admit they don’t care about the advancement of the narrative, all they care about is seeing past references. Sorry, it’s Rook’s story, get over it.
@@NorthernThedas No, those decisions DID NOT happen. They never existed as far as DAV is concerned. For instance, is 2024 the same year as we know it today if the 1960's up through to 2000 is removed? Of course it isn't! It would become unrecognizable. Such will be the case with DAV and every so called "returning" character. DAV will contain a generic default state of the world that has nothing to do with choices made throughout the series. It might as well be another game. While this may not matter to you personally, it's clearly a very big deal for many others. Bioware claiming "this is still your Dragon Age," is nothing more than PR speak and absolute nonsense. They just want people to buy the game, no matter what.
@@Cameron-fk5fk Oh, I get it. The spin and PR rhetoric just doesn't work on me. Also the very fact that you felt a need to insert a backhanded attempt at an insult only serves to lessen the point you thought you were making.
@@Cameron-fk5fk It's a game. People have strong feelings about changes to a long running series and they're expressing their dissatisfaction with it. That is all. I don't have to resort to juvenile behavior because someone doesn't agree with my opinions. Obviously, some people are incapable of having a discussion without using such tactics. Also, reading some of the comments, you seem to be attacking practically everyone who is of the same opinion. Do you work for Bioware? Apparently, you seem to be having a very difficult time dealing with the fact that other people have opinions that do not mirror your own. You certainly will have your hands full when this game releases. Respond if you like. Sparring with you is inconsequential. Enjoy DAV.
@@Cameron-fk5fkGo fuck yourself, I’ve been playing since 2009 and have bought every game on multiple platforms. ‘Tourist’ 🙄 says the one not caring about continuity
Ashe your loyalty is admirable, but I can’t agree with you on this one. There’s no “getting it right with DLC or DA5” this was there one chance to do it and they heavily missed the mark. The truth is, this feels more like a Dragon Age fan fic than a continuation to a large narrative that’s been connected throughout each installment. This is not a game for “new players” it’s never been! It’s like saying let’s cater Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (part 2) to a new audience. Dragon Age games have always been a continued experience dependent on each installment. This new BioWare team did not want to acknowledge or respect that and just wanted to create their own “new” story moving away from the past games. They only really added the option of the Inquisitor for fan service. 7:53 confirms our 3 choices are completely optional and have no effect on the main story. Making excuses for these decisions only reinforces them to continue disrespecting the series. I understand discarding personal and side choices that would only ever live on a codex, but the fact that MAIN CRITICAL choices have no weight is truly pathetic. People want to see their main critical choices reflected in their own worldstate. Ashe, you helped with DA Keep you understand the importance of carrying over choices! That is the Dragon Age I know, crafted by ppl who cared… not this.
You right, If devs had done everything right from the start, we wouldn't have to hope for da5 or DLC. Which we may never see (I still don't see much sales - sad but not surprising, bioware lost the trust of players and didn't really try to get it back)
@@inquerion8867 ye, thats really sad
I'm sorry for my bluntness but what you says is so wrong it feels you got paid by new bioware to recite a text they gave you for trying to justify their laziness (or lack of experience). How in the world the knowledge of several ancient elfs is not important in a story where we need to fight elven gods, and is reduced to a translator ?
How "who's story is this? It's Rooks story" can justify to annihilate all the choices and world changes ? Will it be too much for new players that don't know the lore ? Inquisition nailed it perfectly (the first dragon age game i played), it gave a default world state where for example Morigan didn't have a child, so no confusion for a new player why the kid had a god soul. It also removes Connor's encounter since it's irrelevant for a player that didn't play origins, and other things i don't remember. And never when i played it was i thinking "is it the story of the inquisitor or hawk's?".
What's the connection between let rook experience things we seen in the previous game and removing the keep choices ? You really lost me here.
I really DON'T understand new bioware choice here, they had the perfect set up, big choices would be little ripples in tevinter easily implemented by one single line, much easier than the previous games, but they decided to remove it completely and keep characters that was more changed by the world and choices we previously made.
When people complained that the little references were too little it was an expression for desire for more not less, and im sure every one of those people would rather have those than none at all. So both of those audiences dislike not having those little references.
The idea that this the best scenario is ridiculous and makes it sound like cope, and you yourself highlighted many issues that makes it less than ideal.
What was the point of the other games if the choices we made aren't carried over? It's one of the main things Dragon Age does.... This is baffling to me and I'm pretty good at accepting changes in things. But its like ordering chocolate milk and they gave you "new" chocolate milk but there's no chocolate.
The point is that you had fun with them when you played and experienced them and saw the consequences within those games
@@Srefaniusok, so it's safe to expect the same level of branching paths and playstyles of... Say, BG3, DoS2 or Wrath of the Righteous instead, right? Past choices won't matter at all, but this will be a grandious rpg, the best in the series. I'll surely be able to make a full-evil run, or kill my entire party, or use 'forbidden arts' such as blood magic, or steal from npcs' pockets, right? I'll go lockpicking every door and then face the consequences of all these despicable actions, right? I'm sure time and resources saved from not implementing previous world-states are being used this way, am I correct?
I categorically disagree with most of this video specifically because it goes the same route that I've seen others bring up as a defense-that its impossible to keep up with all player choices. Leaving aside that Inquisition literally prompted the creation of the foundry for this exact scenario, the bigger issue is that most of INQUISITION has been ignored. This isn't about whether or not the grey warden is alive, its about the many world altering decisions the inquisitor makes and the many sequel threads teased that the DEVS put in the game being turned to ash cause “too much work I guess.” How am I supposed to be invested in a tale if ultimately these interconnected stories don't matter? Why should I care then?
I'm sure that Morrigan having a son that's a Tevinter god reborn and uncorrupted will have no implications for a game set in Tevinter. Also a game where you go to Weisshaupt does nothing with the original Grey Warden character.
I understand having to pair the decisions down, but there's pairing decisions down, and there's importing exactly 3 from the most recent game's dlc. I'd be less annoyed if they canonized things to be honest, that way we'd at least get a story about the whole Tevinter god plot while we're in Tevinter, or we'd see the Architect again.
I mean, Kieran lost the old god part of his soul in Inquisition. Otherwise, I agree.
@@Nemisionn I forgot that that happened lol. I guess Solas has it now?
@@MyTomServo probably. I've seen some people theorize that the glowing bit Flemeth pushed through her Eluvian before her final chat with Solas might've been it, sent somewhere (or to someone), but it's just conjecture.
The handlindg of the Hero of Ferelden is one of the most baffling things but it has never been properly addressed in any game. It's kinda funny how a person so important can just vanish lol. Anders was hiding in a shit-hole since he deserted the Wardens but a HoF who is Warden-Commander of Ferelden can just go AWOL.
That said, I learned to stopped caring many years ago, when Inquisition was the newest game. I get why people are angry but I "mourned" that side of Dragon Age 10 years ago.
Well to be fair... he's not that anymore. He's just a normal, but slightly weird kid after Inquisition.
"What South has to do with the North" - everything. In the North only Tevinter Imperium is under the rule of the Black Divine. EVERY other country is ruled by the Southern Chantry, so you would think the choice of a new Divine and their attitude towards certain things - or if it's Leliana if she was hardened or softened - WILL matter not only for Orlais and Ferelden but also for other nations that are under the Chantry's religious rule. Yes, the Chantry control in the North is a little bit more lax than in Orlais, Ferelden and Free Marches, but it exists and has lasting impact on the lives of its people, and the society. Not to mention other important choices that affect Solas' power (Kieran's existence = Old God Soul being either saved or not) and control (Well of Sorrows gave Mythal control over the one who drank from the Well, and then Solas took over Mythal's powers and possibly the control as well, who drank from the Well? The Inquisitor or Morrigan? Who is now potentially controlled by Solas? - and I don't take the assumption that the control was nullified as a good argument, because even if it goes against his nature to do so, it could have provided an interesting conflict FOR HIM to deal with as a character, knowing that he can control another person at any moment and possibly feeling horrible about that possibility, because it makes him no different than the Evanuris even if he chooses not to do that. This game is about him, why not give him existential crisis once again?).
10 years is not enough to make a lasting change that would overwrite those choices, unless ofc the Divine was killed off, there was another schism and suddenly only Black Divine matters, because Southern Chantry lost it's power, which I don't remember being mentioned in any novels.
We couldn't correct NPCs already in Inquisition, especially if you played as an elf and were constantly fed propaganda about your dalish brethren and couldn't correct anyone that they're wrong and had to accept that dalish lore was retconned, so I will not hold my breath in hope that I will be able to do the same in Veilguard if it's not clearly stated beforehand. Also Revan was carried over to the Old Republic mmo and I'm pretty sure he is no longer treated as if player's choices mattered. He now got a canon from the devs and he is written according to their vision of him.
The issue everyone have is that Bioware lied that choices matter and waited pretty long before they revealed how little choices make it into the game. People feel deceived. Lore people like me feel insulted by the choice of the choices included. I was aware that Bioware can't include the choices from previous games forever, because that is an issue that comes with branching-like storytelling. At some point there is just too many choices that you as a studio can't accomodate. But seriously people would be happy with a few major choices that could potentially affect the North and that's it. Nobody asked Bioware to include every little choice we have ever made, because most of them are only relevant for certain characters or places that may not even be included in Veilguard. So going with the major ones that are important for the story of Veilguard and the localisation seems the best.
I never played Solas romance, but even I know that removal of the Vallaslin is not simply a cosmetic choice but a choice that affects their dynamic. If either Solas respects the Dalish culture or manages to convince you to get rid of the sign of it from your face. That's important if your boyfriend did in fact manage to bullshit you that your culture doesn't matter because of the meaning of vallaslins 1000 years ago, or if you stood your ground and protected it. (Not to mention how significant that choice could be to indigenous players who often come from cultures with face markings).
And the whole "potential DLC" argument is also a weak one, because the story should be done fully, not done in lackluster way and then get added content in the DLCs. That was exactly the issue with the Tresspasser. People were pissed that this story was not part of the full game when it should, and that people had to pay for it, instead of getting it as an update to the game. In this case Larian does so much better than Bioware so far.
A codex entry would have been enough for most of the major choices, since they're going to be contain to Southern Thedas. It would have been the bare minimum, and they couldn't even do that.
Zevran should have had a role in the Antivan Crown plotline, though. Hell, I'd prefer they just run with their own canon where everyone can be alive for a follow up if variables are so hard to work with.
As Zevran may be dead, BioWare may have preferred to make content for everyone rather than just for a tiny percentage.
Corinne Busch didn't even know who Zevran was and said so on live stream... Like, they are payed to talk on lore how can you not know the big characters from each game. That was the first sign of something going very wrong. One of them even called Zevran a red flag that has to be avoided... Like, that's not funny :(
@@tamarak.8800 It was Ashley the vocal director who was unaware. These fake outrage accusations are a nonsense.
@@sofajockeyUK Well - what about Leliana?
@@Tagtraeumerin Leliana, despite being possibly dead, did return as a fan and dev favourite. Her 'death' is addressed in dialogue.
I appreciate the effort to look at it from a positive side, but I just think this was a huge and unnecessary blunder on their part.
The amount of time they'd save on making a few codex entries or some optional dialogues, couldn't possibly compare to the amount of goodwill they lost by leaving that out. And let's be honest, Bioware needed all the goodwill they can get, because the game was already a big target from the wider gaming audience. It's so important for a game with this much controversy to at least keep a positive narrative with the core fanbase, but they really shot themselves in the foot on this front for no good reason.
It also sets the stage for the decisions in Veilguard. Because now you've primed players into believing that the choices they make likely aren't gonna matter in a potential sequel.
I honestly think this needs to be rectified by a patch or dlc. It's not unheard of either. Larian added an epilogue to Baldurs Gate 3 after their wild miscalculation of leaving it out.
I wouldn't use BG3 as a positive example, though. Much as I admire Larian, I think they cave in too easily to pressure and have added things that feel more fanservice than good additions to the story (Karlach miraculously finding a way to solve her infernal machine issue, and the toning down of Ascended Astarion's treatment of a romanced Tav, being a couple of examples).
Bioware made a decision with the 3 choices, and while I dislike it, I think they should just stick to it rather than mess up the story they've written by adding "fan requests".
I’m kind of ticked off that the entire plot of the old god soul was dropped, it kind of felt like a pretty important thing that morrigan son had his old god power taken by flemmith, who in turn had her power absorbed by solas, it feels VERY relevant to Solas plan, maybe not something he counted on but a MASSIVE boon to it. I feel like if there was any singular choice from DAO or 2 brought into veil guard it should have been that
I have to disagree about Iron Bull being un-actualized if you sacrifice the Chargers. He dies if you don't save them, but a romance is still very possible. It's just that it ends in tragedy, which should be referenced if we're expecting a cameo or comment about the Inquisitor's romance from DAI. The way that the DAV character creator words his romance makes it seem like he is still alive. Hawke can also romance Fenris, Anders, and Merrill, and they can die in DA2's final act. Their deaths and romances are still referenced in dialogue when the Inky asks Hawke in DAI.
It's written "Who did your Inquisitor romance?" but "Did your Inquisitor romance Solas?" it's how it's read. I romanced Cassandra and then made her the Devine and don't expect any of this being addressed in this insult of a software
Harding is one of Leliana best agent. Trust me she know A LOT. Unless she has dementia. A HUGE deal breaker for me.
I don't know Ashe... I get a lot of what you are saying here, but only three choices is honestly still inexcusable. I get the point about development costs. But I still think asking that about 10 choices, from the past three games in total, is absolutely not to much to ask from a series based on the idea that choices carry over between titles. And I'm not saying that all those choices would have some big story impact. Just having some of the warden characters show up at Weishaupt, or the Inquisitor (or another character) making a simple remark about who the Divine is, would already be enough. It is not going to cost that much just to record three possible lines about who the Divine is. But just accounting for three choices? I'm just never going to be able to justify that. And frankly I don't think we, as fans, should just be oke with that. It's honestly insulting and a betrayal of long time fans.
The development costs excuse is BS. This isn't some poor indie developer trying to get by. Bioware is a multi million dollar company owned by multi billion dollar company EA. They've had 8 years to develop this game. There is no excuse.
@@Cameron-fk5fk Bait used to be believable.
@@Cameron-fk5fk Oh man, don't even get me started on Rise of Skywalker... hated that movie!
However I don't think the same logic applies here. It's not about nostalgia bait. On the contrary, it's about staying faithful to the storytelling and core of the franchise. It does not count as nostalgia to fulfill the promise of choices mattering, of shaping the DA world into your own curated version of it. And yes, even if that is just with little references and possibly even cameo's. I genuinely think that is all that anyone is asking of Bioware here.
@@Cameron-fk5fk I think it is alright for us as fans to call out things we do not like. When we see changes made in a direction that we do not like, a direction that is antithetical to why we liked a series in the first place, we should let our voices be heard as fans. As long as we do it in a polite way of course. Nothing wrong with having a healthy discussion.
Don't get me wrong, I will still be playing Veilguard and am holding out hope for it. But if the series keeps moving away from the reasons I've loved it all these years, I might have to drop the franchise altogether.
There’s a lot of choices that don’t really matter- but also a lot that really do and that’s where my disappointment lies. I can get over not seeing Feynriel- but likely not running into Fenris in Tevinter makes zero sense to me.
The problem with what they’ve done is that it’s going to leave too many unresolved threads.
For instance- I’ll never get to know the ultimate fate of my Hero of Ferelden- last on a Mission to cure the wardens of the blight.
I’ll never know what happens to Hawk at Weisshaupt because I left Loghain in the fade- or for that matter whether he ultimately will survive his encounter with Nightmare ( I presume not).
I can see that the choice of divine doesn’t really matter in the context of not seeing them in game- but if there’s any reference to the southern Chantry it’s going to be hard not to step on someone’s headcanon. Personally I went with Leliana since I liked that character arc for her the best. But if they write her character in Veilguard to be more like Vivienne or Cassandra then I’ll feel let down even though I know she won’t show up.
When we finally presumably get to meet the new leader of the imperium (aka Dorian) is he going to be enthusiastic about slavery or will he be reformed like I made him in Inquisition? I suppose that will never be addressed but without knowing what kind of leader he becomes it’s a bit of a letdown.
Is Alastair just written out entirely since Ferelden probably has no role in the plot? I mean I get it- we can’t always track the lives of every character sure- but it’ll just keep me wondering.
Seeing BioWares Canon in every choice won’t feel good to me as a longtime fan. I can get over the art style changes and the change of the combat (I might even prefer the new combat but that remains to be seen). I can forgive having a narrower scope (I liked the big open spaces in Inquisition). But taking away the resolution of so many threads has got to be the worst and most baffling choice of all with this game and I can confidently say I hate it.
Will I still play the game and enjoy- yes I probably will- but will still feel a little cheated.
At it's core my concern is the idea that returning characters are the same no matter what we did.
Morrigan and Varric should not be identical despite our past choices. An Inquisitor who serves the Divine should be different depending on who the Divine is.
I understand your argument. It makes sense that the team ended up here after 10 years of shakeups and team changes. It does just lead us to a problem of making past choices feel like they don't have payoff. Choices don't pay off once and then stop mattering. We are the entirety of our pasts. Characters should be different if different things happened to them. So when they end up in the exact same place, it further emphasizes our choices being irrelevant to the grander narrative. Which, in a sense, has always been true. But when they write stories about making big choices, it undermines the vibe if you know they intend to beeline us back to everything being the same. We saw this in Trespasser with the Mage v Templar decision largely not mattering with the same institutions existing no matter what.
Anywho. I want DATV to be great. I just won't stop being bothered I suppose.
So my issue with the whole Southern Thedas not effecting Northern Thedas is the chantry. Nevarra, Anderfels, Antiva and parts of Rivain are under the Orlesian chantry. So wouldn’t that mean who is the divine be important. Also I hope the Well is explained.
Also, if you didn't disband the Inquisition, who does your Inquisitor work for?
@@belladonnaofwackness832 Or for that matter, who is Harding working for? If the Inquisition has been disbanded, why would her faction be 'Inquisition; would be better if she was Guard of the Viscount.
Because it was never fully disbande, only oficially.
Trespasser ending shows that. We simply choose to go undercover with the Inquisition to avoid information leaks to Solas, the Qunari or whoever else may want to listen.
@@GiovanniZaluchiif I remember correctly I thought there was a brief explanation that if the inquisition had disbanded only a small group will remain to watch solas closely.
@@JohnistryingIt's pretty much what happened in the comics and the end scene for Tresspassee.
I wouldn't really care about only three choices if Morgan wasn't in this game. Like how are they going to address her having a son with my Hero of Ferelden? That too big a detail to just leave out entirely.
"How do you account for all the past decisiouns?" Easy anwer you don't. You don't even try. But you definetely take more than 3 decisiouns into account. Especialy does that can be tied to the Tevinter: Dorian, Fenris, Wardens, Well of Sorrows, Zevran.... You select some decisiouns and make them matter. By doing so, players will always know some decisiouns matter, but we will never know which, that makes the game intresting. If no desicioun matters, then why replay the game? And this new players exuse is just that, exuse. Chantry was always there and new players have no idea what chantry is? Darspawn were always there, new players have no idea. Quanary? Blood Magic? Fade? Inqusition? All these are things you need to explain to new players anyway, so what is the difference with doing the same with Dorian or Fenris for example?
The choices that matter only make sense if it includes choices relating morrigan and varric since they're both important to veilguard. The hero of fereldan might not be important to the story but whether or not hawke died for the inquisition should be important to varrics story moving forward. This game didn't need every important choice carried over but it needed more than its going to provide
Man I was ok with the hack'n'slash combat, didn't give a feck about butt sizes and everything else people are hating...But this 3 options things killed most of my hype and put real fear in my soul about the quality of this game as a Dragon Age sequel. The whole point of this franchise is being a choice-based RPG, and they butchered basically this whole concept only giving us 3 choices from past games, with TWO of this 3 choices being very final decisions you make in the end of a DA Inquisition DLC.
Trying to put logic into this is just making excuses for lack of competence.
Bold of you to assume there's going to be a Dragon Age 5 after this 🤦🏿♂️
What alienates me the most about this is that they perfected the solution to the problem of Quantum Characters over a decade ago in the original Mass Effect Trilogy.
Ashley is dead? Then her role in the story is filled by Kaidan.
Wrex died on Virmire? Allow me to introduce Wreav.
Mordin died in the Suicide Mission? Here, have Padok Wiks. He's great!
No Grunt? Urdnot Dagg.
Jack dead? Prangley finishes his juice box and steps up to bat.
General Corinthus subs in for Garrus, and Admirals Xen and Raan sub in for Tali.
No Legion? You get Not-Legion.
No Thane? here's Kirrahe.
No Kirrahe? Then there's no-one to get between Kai Leng and his target.
If Miranda's dead, her sister steps in.
If Jacob's dead, then some random Cerberus Scientist takes his place.
If Kasumi died, then Jondam Bau fills her role.
If Zaeed died, his cameo is replaced by random mercenaries.
If no Samara, then Morinth.
If no Samara or Morinth, then Felare.
This issue had a known solve TWELVE YEARS AGO, but naturally most of the people with any talent have left BioWare in that time.
This episode will be the funeral of Dragon Age and unfortunately probably also of Mass Effect .But maybe it would be better if such a Mass Effect sequel would not be released anymore .
I love you, Ashe, but I disagree with defending this.
In order to make things feel more like "my Thedas" and not "Epler's Thedas" would have been 15 choices. 15. That's all.
DA:O - Who rules, did the hero of Ferelden die, dark ritual, who they romanced, Sten's fate
DA2: Did a sibling join the wardens, Hawke's gender and what are their relationship with Varric
DAI: Other than three there: The well of sorrows, Blackwall's fate, Iron Bull's fate, who is divine, fate of the wardens
Those 15 choices would have been enough to make it matter, and some of them have been cliff hangers for 15 years.
This decision was made because it was easy. They had to know the backash, and didn't truly care because they're focusing on a new audience instead of the original fans.
It makes sense ONLY because they chose not to invest the time in existing players.
Will I play Veilguard? Yes, when it goes on sale.
Has this killed my hype? Yes, absolutely.
Forget a sale, get it on the high seas.
@@austenschiratti397 It's gonna have Denuvo and considering Empress had gone on an indefinite hiatus, you'd probably have to wait for a year for it to be pirated.
@@valmiro4164 Thankfully, I'm in no rush to experience mediocrity. Already waited ten years for an RPG that concludes the story, which Veilguard apparently has no intention of being, so what is one more?
@@Cameron-fk5fkthis is not the dunk you think it is, commenting it multiple places, given that every MCU movie does in fact reference things that happened in previous ones. Even if it’s a one-liner. Which is all we ever fucking wanted so our illusion could be maintained.
They definitely chose the lazy route. I agree with the choices you've listed (although I would have preferred a couple of more), and those choices would be enough to satisfy me. So they're catering to new fans, okay, then add a worldstate for those who didn't play the other games and call it something that wouldn't imply canon because there is no canon. If the new fans like Veilguard, in my mind that would make them more likely to buy the previous games as well to get the whole story and set their own custom world for a new playthrough of Veilguard. More likely to buy potential DLC even. I really can't fathom this decision and it's a very bad one and Bioware really need this game to do good.
5:17 how would giving the player the ability to set up the flags for prior game events during in-gave dialogue can be reasonably conaidered as a possibility when the whole point is reducing the amount of plot deviations ands complexity the new writers have to deal with?
Overall this decision by the zombie Bioware comes across as a cope out. They want to use the brand name and world of Dragon Age without doing the leg work.
But Kieran being born should be a choice cause it effects morrigan’s character and if flemeth has urthemiel’s soul or not which would indicate that flemeth found another way to cheat death without being mythal’s vessel
@@Cameron-fk5fk Kieran affects how Morrigan grows as a person. Your sarcastic response is non sequitur and doesn't counter what OP said.
@@Cameron-fk5fk Kieran affecting Morrigan is part of her arc in DAI, in which her personality starkly contrasts with how she was in DAO. And since Kieran is not represented in Veilguard, then what is her personality supposed to be? My best guess is that she's simply Mythal now, since that would allow resetting her as a character and undoing her entire character arc without having to worry about continuity.
And maybe I'm talking out of me arse here, but based on the plethora of your copy and pasted comments replying to various people, you seem like a disingenuous little troll.
@@Cameron-fk5fk I guess my comment got deleted but Kieran affecting Morrigan's personality is literally part of her arc in DAI, which I've played plenty.
@@Cameron-fk5fk But BioWare already showed the 3 selectable choices for the world state. Neither Kieran nor the Old God soul are included.
@@Cameron-fk5fk I can't remember if it was part of my deleted comment or another comment altogether, but I think the best way to write around Kieran would be to assume that Flemeth sent Mythal's essence into the mirror before Solas killed her in DAI's epilogue, and that Morrigan later found the essence to merge with it and went full circle by becoming what she feared becoming in the first game. So any potential disparity with Morrigan's personality could be easily chalked up to the spirit's influence over her mind. I hope that's the route that BioWare took.
Bioware: "Oh, we're so back!" (unless you include the past Dragon age games, Bioware doesn't care about the fanbase there- they're trying to attract a new, younger fanbase & they assume the new fanbase doesn't care about lore or the Hero of Ferelden or Hawke) Gee, no wonder so many bioware originals fled. It's like they ushered in an entirely new team to bioware who never studied the past games or cared about their past fanbase. I hope mods fix these obvious mistakes Bioware was all too happy to keep in their new game. I want to know what happened to my HoF; Who by the way, became Queen of Ferelden & married King Alistair. I was beyond thrilled to have gotten a letter from the Queen of Ferelden/ aka: HoF to my Inquisitor- that's the content I expect in Veilguard. I sacrificed Hawke in Inquisition because she was a hollow shell of her former self from DA2- she was incredibly toned down & poorly written in DAI. My Inquisitor romanced Blackwall as well - Most of us don't expect in-person appearances of our past favourite characters, but we would like the acknowledgement that the past choices we made mattered. I'd want a mentioning about the Queen & King of Ferelden (alistair & cousland) I'm holding my wallet for the reviews. I get that being in a different part of the world would set a tone shift and not every detail will matter to Rook or their story- but what about Morrigans son? (she can have a son with the Warden, Loghain or Alistair) Where is this plotline? Because it seemed really important. Even if Morrigan mentions her son in some simple way would be enough. The warden, whether you're queen of ferelden or just the hero was looking for a cure if they were still alive after the events of DAO. Don't get me started on how lackluster the Qunari look. Bioware dropped the ball on their designs yet again-- it seems only unplayable/non-main characters that are Qunari are the ones that look awesome. I hope mods fix the lazy design choice there. It's like the Cullen thing all over- how shitty he was in DA2 to basically be "reinvented" for a romance option in Inquisition- while I think it was cool that he was in Inquisition, I don't think he deserved the pedestal he was given for being a POS in DA2. I don't think Bioware is "back" in the way people assume. But I do believe DAV will do more than okay if you dismiss any lore expectations & only care about combat/ romances
Have to disagree with my dear, invalidating the world you build over years is not something anyone wanted. If none of those things mattered why build a website specifically to keep track of your story all the way back to Origins leading up to Veilguard? You woukdn't have bothered and made every game it's own story with set cannon going forward, but they didn't and instead went for an over arching story that connected them through your decisions. To break it down to three simple choices after 10 years doesn't make sense. Its the same thing Mass Effect 3 did which got backlash by all fans for how it ended and from the looks of it the same thing is be done here just right from the get go. If they didn't want to connect these games through your choices then every previous game they should have just been a straight forward story with nothing to connect them but references not what was built.
The frustrating part of this isn't really that your previous choices don't affect Veilguard. It is that the illusion that this is your story is gone.
I don't really mind that Veilguard doesn't care that I gave Bella money to start a tavern in Origins or that Hawke had a pirate girlfriend. But considering they bothered to make the Keep, it seems ridiculous to not allow us to import decisions from it. I don't expect Morrigan to immediately introduce herself shouting about her potential baby or potential Warden love interest. But now she's here it feels weird it does not matter.
But it isn't gone, it happened when you played it.
@@jenniferhanses all of them when you played them.
@@jenniferhanses so all you experienced in your life has not happened, if it's not pushed to your face all the time?
드래곤 에이지 5를 언급하는것이 무의미한 이유는
베일가드의 성공으로 5가 나온다 해도, 베일가드에서 내린 선택들이 다시 무의미해질 것을 알고 있기 떄문에..
세계 연동은 말 그대로 이 게임의 모든 것이자 정체성이었음
I love the Dragon Age series so much, but after this news I am not really interested in the game anymore and unfortunately will not be getting it. :(
I appreciate that you tried to look on the bright side but for me the choices and how they affect the world no matter how big or small is key to dragon age and not having that means it may as well not be a sequel at all. Also I hate the excuse that they may add more choices in dlc we should need to pay even more money to fix the developers mistakes
I've been a big fan for a long time, but I have to say, I think you largely painted this issue to simply. Yes, there is some reality with how much the previous games went in different directions it made sense many decisions from past games were not going to carry over. But, man, 3 choices just isn't enough, straight up. The other questions didn't even need to directly impact the story to still make the universe feel more connected. Just background dialogue about how the south is handling the news would help the game feel more lived in without question. If you didn't play Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 had the web comic were you could decide the key narrative points of the previous game. Would it really be that hard to cover basic stuff from the previous games (Who rules Fereldan, Orzammar, Orlais, did Morrigan have the child, who leads the Southern Chantry) just for flavor dialogue in the background? I don't think that's asking for too much. In fact, I think that's basically asking for the bare minimum.
totally agree with your points. In my opinion, Veilguard does not look like a squeal made for the original fans, because, why don't the original games and their choices matter then?
Not using Keep is a huge middle finger to all of us that played all the games thinking we could influence the world and story, it is unforgivable. I suspect the reason is that this game was meant to be a live service until very recently and thus the game was not designed with our world-states in mind.
Veilguard looks like a soft-reboot for a new modern audience with much less dark fantasy. It is certainly not a return to form and not for me at least.
I don't know if anyone remembers, but back in 2012, when ME 3 was released, there was a default world state for those who didn't play previous games, which was a nightmare.
Most, if not all of the crew was dead, many of the bad choices were canonized.
So it's not like Bioware hasn't done it before.
But here the studio is just lazy, it took 10 years to make this final installment of the franchise, and this is the "best" they can do.
Agreed they just lazy or there talent is just not there anymore, this should have been the ultimate DA game as it has to be so many things so many different people.
I need to emphasize that last bit. It took 10 years to make this final installment. Who the fuck in Bioware said "this is the culmination of decades of world building. Perfect time for a clean slate and fish for new players!"
Hearing we might have to wait for an hypothetical DLC or DA5 (such fragile concepts by the look of it) is heartbreaking. If they wanted a clean slate they should have made this game be the conclusion that prompted the clean slate for the next installment. Making it all the way around makes not sense and it definitely won't happen because in that's scenario where DA5 is finally a game for the fans, their own SOOOO precious new gamers might not be interested. They'll want a continuation to Veilgard so now we're divided. Who will they please? Us that have been with them for decades? The new fans that want their continuation? Or will they again forget about both of us in the persuit of yet again more new players?
The one excluded choice that bothers me the most is what happened to Cole. Him turning more human or spirit cause pretty major differences to the character, which means there's basically 0% chance he'll show up in DAV. Even though he was the closest to Solas, the only one who still trusted him in Trespasser, and the only one who approved if Inky said they wanted to save him - even Varric didn't. So him being excluded is absolute nonsense.
Characters like Feynriel, Fenris and Zevran would have a reason to appear, but since they can all be dead I can accept their exclusion. But leaving the one person who was guaranteed to still care about Solas (not you, Varric) is just absurd.
My Warden went looking for a cure for the Calling...what happened?
met a broodmother and they lived happily in the deep roads
Sidetracked by side quests and will be too busy to save the world again.
Clipped through the world and now shares a non-Euclidian space with the lord of the pies
"Warden? What warden? Oh you mean that... person who did... something? Idk, I only played Fortnite"
- Bioware devs, probably.
@@fabiorosolen they didn’t tell you in DAI either , but that’s ok , now in Veilguard , suddenly it’s an issue
You shouldn't even be able to notice the devs preferences with characters and romances. Yet, we do. It's heavily screwed into Sollavelan. Those 3 choices all necessary for that ship. You can't even be friends with Solas and pick stop at all cost because they will 100% reduce your relationship to that choice UNLESS you also click the romance tile. They want this to be acceptable to new players? Then why is a Sollavelan Inquisitor default?! Why include Morrigan, a character with a huge history attached, with zero choices about her? Why the hell is Varric still here? If they wanted to cut it off, then stop with the old characters all together. Don't pick YOUR favorites. My Inquisitor isn't even possible to exist with those 3 choices, and I didn't even want them to return at all.
Well, only female Lavellan can romance Solas. So if you got a male one then you're home free. Otherwise I suggest clicking on romance and picking Cullen just out of spite.
@@senigata0329my female Lavellan got married to Sera, I'm not turning her straight for their narrative :/
I firmly believe that they are deserving of criticism, either have the courage to say this game is a separate chapter not connected to other games in which case stop bringing back old characters as shiny trinkets, or have the ability and take the time to continue the story from where it left off. As the game creator they do have the right to say what's cannon and can write a story that applies itself to a series of decisions previously made but to just deny any and all payer actions from previous titles is lazy and cowardly. I 'm sure they weren't given time or recourses and the publishers switched deadlines and fucked up story beats, the directors came in and out, the writers lost track of previous ideas etc. You know who is completely innocent of al those fuckups and mistakes? The old players and the fans. My expectations, hopes and financial investment in this series should not be taken for granted or expected.
That's a lot of words to say "Eh, this will do."
Nah I understand, northern Thedas is in another dimension and bordered to the south by the Ghostfence. Made by Almalexia, Vivec and Sotha Sil.
@@Jeff17ish it is a pity you don’t understand that certain plot events might make these things irrelevant for this game.
@@Kira11259only because the devs made it so, it didn’t have to and would make perfect sense if it was relevant in passing
@@Kira11259 One could imagine the friking King/Queen of one of the largest kingdoms of Thedas, or the literal Pope of a religion who personally know Varric, Harding, and even Solas, would have a little bit of relevance in the world ending event this game is set on.
Then how come decisions we made in the South impacted the North in previosu games? If they're so seperate then why did the Qunari show up in the previous games? Why did we stumble into people from Tevinter again and again? The premise of it not mattering has already shattered, because it was established that it did.
@@Shinarydk that's the joke friend. It's a ridiculous choice that in the end turned Veilguard into a useless spin-off for me. I was genuinely excited for this, but now all I see is the devs lying to me and invalidating all my choices.
I understand the points you made in this video, but it’s hard to justify the reasoning behind them when we’ve seen BioWare capable of fulfilling these responsibilities in the previous games.
For me, the story is what has me drawn to, excited, and rooting for the game. So yes, I hope that it is great, not just good. But a lot of what I picked up on in this video is, “it won’t matter that these small things happened anyway, because how does it effect blank realistically? We want good quality storytelling, not myriad choices that tangle the narrative.” But, this essentially banks of the games narrative being so great that we can accept we had to sacrifice player autonomy.
I don’t want to be pessimistic about the game, but the idea that the developers didn’t want to implement previous game changing decisions, probably means they didn’t want to think about them. Their affects on the world and the people.
On the surface, having only three choices to make, two of them from a DLC, just feels cheap for the legacy of DA. But underneath that, it’s sad and it’s lazy. We’ve waited about ten years for this game, but it feels like a lot to just hope the streamlined story version for veilguard will be so good that we’ll feel better about not seeing the legacy of the previous games.
We’ve always had the default canon, but let’s be honest, most of us who have played these games at least three different times have done it to see our own choices played out.
I think the bad decisions behind The Keep and player-choice is not solely for new fans. You don't look at Inquisition, its divisiveness included, and how/why so many new people got invested in DA through that game, then look at Veilguard and think "Yeah, this is the right move."
Veilguard gives only incentive to play Inquisition. Which leads to an incentive to play, or at least learn about, 2 and Origins. Which THEN LEADS to disappointment with Veilguard.
So contrary to the "Marvel-ification" idea, I think they're trying to break the interconnectedness between each game, going forward, and maybe even make it to where each new installment is its own thing, possibly. Which is very dumb, that'd be too anti-BioWare. They must either have so much confidence that Veilguard is going to kill it on its own, or they're genuinely making stupid decisions out here. Or both??
"Quantum" is just an excuse for BioWare not doing their jobs, and it was never a problem for them beyond rousing them from their laziness. Leliana is "quantum". Did it stop BioWare from bringing her back? How about Oghren? How about Anders? How about Morrigan or Alistair for that matter? Nope. Even characters like Wynne, Zevran, and Loghain for crying out loud are "quantum" and BioWare had no problem bringing them back as optional cameos. The beauty of Old BioWare is they set up these characters to be able to return under special circumstances, or they were given understudies to replace them in worldstates where they died. New BioWare just doesn't want to be bothered to program the various options for players to choose from. New BioWare hates player choice and keeping track of all the branching paths, even if those paths can be tied together. And this is why Rook has so few dialogue options in the game, and why Rook speaks for the player so often. This is another example of BioWare giving us a pre-set protagonist, only this one is even more on-rails than Hawke was.
Wrong. Epler's answer was not only nonsense, it was factually incorrect. Our choices don't matter if they are not going to be referenced in the latest game. Sten being the Arishok or not is a major outcome that should affect Veilguard, but it doesn't because BioWare can't be bothered to write or code it into the game. Even if they had given Sten an understudy who takes the same policy positions, that would have at least been something. Instead BioWare is asking us to headcanon our worldstates onto Veilguard's blank canvas. No thanks. I'm not being paid to finish BioWare's game for them, nor am I being given the game for free. So my choice will be to not purchase BioWare's incomplete game. As for Epler not saying our choices didn't exist, that is exactly what Veilguard does by not including Lace as a romance option for the Inquisitor. BioWare couldn't even put in the effort to create a conflict between the Inquisitor and Rook over Lace's romance. Instead they nullified the Lace romance in order to make her a romance in the new game. So Epler is either lying or just ignorant of the details of the game he just presided over.
No one is asking for choices that reached their natural conclusions to be continued. End stories that have ended. Continue stories that have a new chapter to them. Zevran is an example of this. They had no problem bringing him back in DA2, even though he had two opportunities to die in Origins. They made it so he couldn't die in DA2. Bring him back in Veilguard and give him special interactions with The Crows. And in worldstates where he is dead, simply give those players nothing. They don't get to see that extra content... unless they go back and play a new worldstate and make the choice to spare him. Hence leading to what Dragon Age was always meant to foster... REPLAY VALUE!
Epilogue slides have never been reliable pieces of information, and have always been subject to rewrites. But if you really want to hold up epilogue slides, then how about the Hero of Ferelden's stating that his or her story is not yet complete? And as for certain characters being retired or dead, Veilguard's options don't allow you to specify that. Cassandra could have been romanced but ended it to become Divine. Rainier could have been romanced but ended it to join the Wardens. Hissrad could have been romanced but ended it with betrayal. Veilguard doesn't account for these choices. Why is that? Either BioWare overlooked it, or the romance choice doesn't actually matter. Some speculate that the romance choice is really only there to determine if Solas was romanced or not, and none of the other characters will be referenced. Either way, this is an example of BioWare not caring about our past choices, and it explains their disdain for present choices as well, hence why Rook has so few options.
Uh... the Divine is still the Divine of the Anderfels, Nevarra, Antiva, and everything in-between. All places the players will be visiting in Veilguard. Only Tevinter and Rivain would be unaffected, and even that's a maybe. And what do you mean would their reforms be felt by the time Veilguard takes place? It's eight YEARS after Trespasser. The affects of those Divines were already being felt IN Trespasser, according to Mother Giselle.
If we could decide worldstate choices during the game, BioWare would have said so by now in order to cut off the negative press. Instead they have confirmed that only three choices are recognized from Trespasser, and they have even made excuses to justify this terrible decision. So no, players WON'T be able to decide any worldstate choices during the game. Put down the copium pipe.
Busche told Mr. Matty there will be no DLCs. Most of BioWare's workers were fired. BioWare knows Veilguard will not sell well. And there will be no Dragon Age 5. Technically there won't even be a Dragon Age 4, since this game ain't it.
The answer is to carry the past into the present and write interesting future paths for it. Dragon Age must provide for various alternate paths for different players to walk. If the story and its branches become too large and unwieldy, then you tie plots together into similar outcomes were you can, and end plots where necessary. But you DON'T leave plots hanging or forget about them entirely.
Calling back to Trespasser's terrible writing is not going to make Veilguard's terrible writing seem any better. Trespasser is where this lazy style of design began, with the story being put on rails, characters being turned into idiots, and the player's choices being restricted into two choices that are actually more like one. As for the Inquisitor, players can't even select if he or she is a mage or not, or if the Inquisitor drank from the Well. So it isn't like the Inquisitor will play an important role in the game anyway. This is why Varric was the one being used to confront Solas, rather than the Inquisitor, which is what Trespasser hinted at. And just like with the romance choice, some fans speculate the Inquisitor is only being included to provide for closure for a possible Solas romance.
The Inquisitor taking up arms to do WHAT? Save the world again? No, that would not be a major political crisis. This is especially the case if the person is now the ex-Inquisitor. A nobody. And even if you don't want the Inquisitor fighting, the possibility of him or her being a mage should play a significant role in how helpful he or she is, especially if a Rift Mage. Same with the Inquisitor being a templar or not.
Hissrad can betray the Inquisitor. So are you saying that romance only exists if he becomes tal-vashoth? So then what option do the betrayed Inquisitors pick? The No Romance option? You don't see the problem with this?
The real importance behind the Well is how helpful the Inquisitor or Morrigan can be. Since neither one can be specified as the one who drank, it means neither one will divulge secrets from the Well. Or, at the very least, that neither one will be credited for it. Also, there is more importance to Morrigan being the one who drank. If she did, that means she personally participated in the fight against Corypheus and helped stop his dragon. It enhances her as a character.
The inclusion of past choices has nothing to do with understanding the new protagonist better. We had no problem with this in the previous games, which DID carry our choices over from the previous game(s). It doesn't matter if past choices would affect Rook's story or not. We should see our choices either way. It's about immersion and wish fulfillment. And besides, there ARE past choices that could affect Rook. The choice on Avernus, or Hawke's sibling, or Rainier, could affect a Grey Warden Rook. Choices involving Cassandra could affect a Mourn Watch Rook. Choices around Ignacio or Zevran could affect the Crow Rook.
The South needs more than 8 years to recover? Even though recovery was going well after just 2 years according to Trespasser? Ha. Okay.
This "mess" is technically another "Blight", and another world-ending threat. So this "mess" should only include the South and past characters, not exclude them. Or are Elgar and Ghil going to stop their mess at the borders of the southern nations? The Hero/WC, Champion/Other Warden, and (ex-)Inquisitor should absolutely be involved in this story as well as Rook, who is relatively a nobody compared to these other protagonists. I'm not saying include them the whole time, but they need some major roles to play.
Wrong. Strawman argument. No one is asking for every choice, or every permutation. Just the important ones that would play a reasonable role in Veilguard. Shame on the fan council for letting BioWare get away with using you as an echo chamber and shutting you up the moment you disagreed with one of their major decisions.
No, it doesn't make sense. There are numerous choices from the trilogy that should be accounted for in Veilguard. And guess what, Veilguard's narrative is weak and confusing anyway. Or did Solas propping up his super important ritual with plywood not tip you off to that? How about the fact Solas left his eluvian wide open for anyone to follow him through? Or leaving himself unguarded while performing the ritual? Or how about Neve getting herself captured on purpose, even though she knew it was important for us to meet with her and stop Solas as soon as possible?
No, Veilguard is badly written, and BioWare was lazy to not include variations in the story based on past choices. This is the result of untalented, woke hacks.
In the words of Cassandra,
“Deal with it.”
@@NorthernThedas Agreed. BioWare needs to deal with it.
Small correction: you can still enter a relationship with Iron Bull if the chargers die.
But it doesn't actualize the romance since he betrays you and dies during the betrayal. It suffers from the same problem as Blackwall, where there's a conditional behind whether he's alive or not.
@@Ladyinsanity i feel that still counts? as it is a dynamic, allbeit a sweet lie and manipulation in order to help keep a closer eye on the inquisitor. reducing choices like that to simple "just who did you romance" doesnt really account for the weight of said choices.
Yup, not disagreeing with that at all. What I mean is that the nuance is gone, as in those conditions of how the romance plays out is missing, so Keep seems incomplete to me
@@Ladyinsanity thats certainly not a positive sadly, for me the keep allowed replays of inquisition to be more lively and interesting. sad that doesnt seem to be possible with Veilguard
Maybe if they didn't fucking waste so much time chasing a live-service DA4, they could've actually spent time incorporating more of our past choices.
Mass Effect 3 seemed pretty capable of incorporating previous choices...
nah it was very superficial
So, did DAI. The issue though is that Mass Effect was wrapped up in trying to respect player choice that the whole game suffered for it. We had no side quests of substance, most of our companions didn't rejoin and we were back to six (seven counting Javik) companions. Mass Effect felt a lot smaller in these regards because it had to deal with so many choices. And while that is cool the story we all came for would suffer.
That's because it's a freaking TRILOGY
@@Will-sb4hf is that what the three is for?
*cough* Rachni Queen *cough cough*
Does anyone else really want a completely remastered set for these, they should do what they did with mass effect and make a legendary edition
sorry lady, but its dunk eating.
Big Dan said it right: taking away DAV's right to choose is not a way of saying that all decisions are important, but to give a fuck about them.
At end of the day they are a AAA Games sudio though. You'd think they would spend little bit more money on getting extra devs on the choices since, well that's what dragon age is about. The choices and them choices affecting the following games. At least the big choices you made that are important or relevant. Obviously since Morrigan is in the game, you would think any choice you made with her would be relevant. Then again she's probably quick camo and then disappears.
Okay I'm not buying into this, they got rid of the keep but they couldn't even give us the Well of Sorrows choice considering its significance for Morrigan or the Inquisitor whoever drank from it.
Hard disagree. Choices are what made Dragon Age games. I can understand some things being omitted, but a big deal like "Is Alistair King" not even mentioned is criminal. Having these plots mentioned in codex would have been better than nothing at all. Defending this decision is...odd.
many characters deserved to return: HOF who was looking for the cure for corruption. ISABELLA AND ZEVRAN. What happened to Merril and Fenris? Not to mention Hawke who I'm convinced didn't die in FADE. Cassandra and Leliana who are the pillars of this game. Luckily we have Morrigan
10 years to only take into account 3 choices? this is BS
And people are still claiming that EA rushed Bioware into making this game, lol.
You just don't understand, a decade isn't enough to make a new game. It's because, uh... you know, reasons and... alright, I'll just pay you to say good things about that game in your video, ok? /s
Well, at least is not a MMO.
@@SithEmpiredidnothingwrong True, at least the series is allowed to die as a singleplayer game instead of a live service.
So, in essence, what you're saying is Bioware didn't want to do the work the was done in DAO, DA2, DAI, ME, ME2, AND ME3, basically? Each of those games featured "quantum characters," as you have described them. Bioware of old was willing to do the work, after all it was THIER IDEA! THIS team is only interested in making ridiculous excuses and offering up explanations that don't hold water. They played and replayed Trespasser repeatedly and forgot that there were 3 games that preceded that DLC. No, they wanted to reboot the series but are calling DAV a continuation, which it is not, for marketing purposes I'd assume. If you remove a person's history, that person becomes another person entirely. Therefore, every "returning" character is only a hollow shell with a brand new default history. The same is true for the world itself. So much for choices mattering. Spin it any way you like, for me, this game IS NOT Dragon Age! True, it is their game, and they can do whatever they want with it. Problem is, I don't have to buy it.
I canceled my preorder. Just because something is hard doesnt mean you drop it. Dragon Age like Mass Effect was about our stories/choices or at least the illusion of it. Dragon Age Veilguard def doesnt seem like DA4 leaving out player choices.
@@Manisntthisfun wise decision. If the game against all odds is good you can always buy it later anyways. But i am of the same opinion as you. This game does not care about us original fans that o
Played all the past games, since only three choices from the last one matters. Veilguard is a more lighthearted reboot of Dragon Age and not a return to form or just a simple sequel.
@@Manisntthisfun I never pre-order it because money is tight. But even then I was farming reward points to buy it. Now I'm not even waiting for to see if it's good to buy it. I'm waiting for it to inevitably hit Game Pass and play it then. They made me wait decades for this, I'm sure they can wait months.
And if more people think like me and this flops marking the end of Bioware. Well... I'd like to say I'll miss them, but I already do... I've been missing Bioware since 2014. My grieving is in a different point right now.
I wouldn't have minded if the choices included The Old God's soul and The Well of Sorrows, honestly, because I was convinced that those are building up to something bigger reserved for the last game. Without them - I don't even know what this game is about anymore. It's not the conclusion I was waiting for
I can't believe who the Divine is won't even get a single mention, honestly. We're still going to Antiva, to Rivain, to Nevarre where the Southern Chantry still has some influence at least. Three choices only rather does take away from what I found unique and special about these games. I feel like even six would have been better - three major ones (which might affect how the story plays out) and three minor ones (which exist in codices and flavour, voice lines and so on). The Divine, the Well of Sorrows, the Wardens. Can't believe those things aren't going to have any effect at all.
Ashe really upped the fake accent on this video lol
What is with the fake accent? I don't understand it.
I just want to know what my HoF is doing, and if Kieran is alive and well, and how was he supposed to play into everything with Mythal wanting his God soul.
This is the foundation of Bioware, and sadly the modern EA wants some of the action rpg cheddar rather than than the story RPG.
Every time I see a video concerned about Dragon Age 4 half of them devolve into complaining about diversity. Not talking about the real issues of and concerns of the Dragon Age series future installment. We have real concerns about Dragon Age 4 but it's being distracted by cultural war nonsense.
So I've noticed things in the keep, like the hungry deserter, didn't get acknowledged in Dragon Age Inquisition
Seems some things in the keep are just placebos, if they ever shut down the keep, they should put the tapestry at the start of Inquisition because we tend to replay these games and all the default choices are Bantha Poodoo. Some of the placebo choices can be removed if they do that. Still, one thing I'm sad about, I guess we'll never see Bethany Hawke & Tallis again 😥
In Kotor 2, I had to get a mod so a light side female protagonist in the first game wasn't forced to be in a Carth romance, no more "she loved Carth" lies. Once I saw that the mod gave Bastilia as an option, I definitely got the mod for the first game to experience that too
When I play Devil's Advocate, I'm like: "Look, but don't touch! Touch, but don't taste! Taste, but don't enjoy!" (I'm making a reference to a movie here lol 🤪)
So did anyone let Flemeth walk away in Dragon Age Origins 🤔, did the end of Dragon Age Inquisition's main campaign involve that version of Flemeth or the piece from the amulet. Did the two Flemeth versions go back together after a peaceful resolution. I'm still looking forward to the game, I'm just wondering what the point was for some of those choices in the keep
I wonder if we'll ever get a second Jade Empire, it does seem like the BioWare game that many fans forgot, "remember the basics!"
I don't care about the fate of minor characters. But the fate of the companions, major choices should be accounted for. Even the Witcher 3 managed to do that. And that was already a very limited input option.
Will we be able to play Dragon Age: Inquisition once the Dragon age: Keep is shut down? Will we even be able to put our choices into Inquisition?
I like your take quite a bit compared to how it has been explained, however I am going to say that there is one big way they could of done this and I wouldn't of been so peeved over it.
Time.
Here, Varric is still alive, so is Harding and presumably other members in past games. After all its only ten years. I find it hard to believe that with all the movers and shakers we have interacted with that none of them would get involved when they discover the guy who blew up the last divine is now in Tevinter doing another ritual. Redemption wanting or not.
This could all be smoothed out if say 200 years or some other long time went by. We can say that Solas went down into a rabbit hole of the Fade and time got weird for him. Only a few grand choices would have an impact lasting so long such as the Inquisition, Morrigan having the baby or not/us following her into the Eluvian (Yeah this decision better be referenced somehow as we still have no idea what happened to our Warden if we did this!!!), Grey Wardens after Inquisition, and other important bits like that.
With a huge time gap, I would of been fine with only the largest decisions making it through. Three is terribly low for only ten years after the sky literally split open. Why not just get started on a new trilogy with Solas as the main bad guy-esque? A new trilogy can justify a new art style and focusing more on the Tevinter landscape with their issues and plunging the depths of the Fade. Would of been a lot better tha trying to pull a bait and switch saying "look a sequel...haha just kidding its only a sequel in name and nothing you did mattered after we got that preorder money from ya!".
Its not enough that i feel like i waited years for nothing i wanted to come to light but now it doesnt feel like im playing in my own unique world anymore.
The ruler of Orzammar, Fereden, Orlais, and the Divine all being irrelevant greatly angers me.
Kingmaker: - 25 great disapproves
You make it sound like acknowledging decisions from past games and making a coherent and compelling narative for Veilguard are mutually exclusive, when they are not. Most people are fine with acknowledgement through cameos, dialogue references and codex entries without these choices having any real impact on how Veilguard plays out. From a practical point of view, they can't account for all past choices on Veilguards story though it's still ridiculous to suggest that southern Thedas wouldn't impact or influence nothern Thedas whatsoever, that's not how it works in the real world and not how it should work in Dragon Age either. So instead of appeasing a large part of the fanbase with nods to choices from past games, they just annoy everyone because they can't even do that
I grew up with fable 1 and 2 so I was decensitised to over the top marketing about every choice your character makes mattering
Ive heard from colleagues that are game developers that transitioning various choices from past games to follow up gamea, in the tech side, is a huge ordeal in at itself. So i understand that, but DA Keep was supposed to be a tool to not only archive and help build a story in and around thedas, but also help future games be able to tranfer a limited set of choices on and foward, and they had plans to add more features to it. So, to me, it felt like a huge loss and dissapoinment. Even in DAI, although not directly but throufh the War Table, you still got to make choices that influences various part of thedas from the Anderfels up to rivan and tevinter, so our of those 100+ choices only picking three with that reasoning just took the wind out of my sails.
This ISN'T going to to be a Red Dead Redemption 2 where we all complain about previous games and the glorious new story is so good we all collectively shut up and become die hard fans of Veilgard... And I know that because Bioware has already tried Maki standalone narratives with Andromeda and Anthem.
They're sacrificing world building and continuation for nothing. They can't make a RDR2 we know this.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I do think that this is one of the best-edited videos on Veilguard coverage I've watched. :)I hope you keep making videos about the game as time goes on.
I was hoping to find more of a bright side tbh :') I still don't want to get my hopes up for "telling characters how things Really Happened in conversations," but I am just very disappointed to think that Morrigan, Varric, Harding, have none of the character development that we saw in their paths that we were able to influence. Yes, they have "their own free will" but - Hawke, Varric's dearest, longest friend, is either 10 years missing, or not. Morrigan is either a mother, or not. The idea that neither case *matters* for *who they are now* at all as they interact with the world and with new people and new teams... We *saw* that they were deeply effected when those events happened. And if they are *not* changed by those events, then to me that says that no, those events *didn't* happen.
And while overall I agree with the "we're not in Southern Thedas anymore," and "this is Rook's story, and that's pretty much just about the Blight and the Evanuris" ...Nevarra and its unique relationship to the Southern Chantry, and Nevarra and Antiva and Rivain's history with the Mage/Templar War and the Chantry/Circle structures, would absolutely, absolutely, be effected by the Southern Divine. If those have no bearing on the *story* and how the *story goes* and there's simply never a good moment to interact with them, fine, but to think that there is *no tangible effect on the world* is kind of antithetical to "your canon exists :)" when we are, in fact, interacting with parts of the world that were influenced by things we have done. There are giant statues of Andraste in the Southern-Andrastian/Qun-contested Rivain. Nevarra is the *seat* of the College of Magi and the Grand Enchanter of the Southern Chantry Circles. That those places aren't shaped at all by whether the Circles are abolished or reinstated is... really head-scratching. Unless they never happened.
I understand paring down. I understand that there was an element of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" regarding disappointing fans by the idea of having cameos vs. codex entries. I am hopeful that they somehow managed to thread the needle of giving beloved past characters and the world the texture that feels like anything we did in the past actually effected them. But as it stands I don't, I really don't, think that leaving everything by the wayside was the best option. And so far nothing I've heard has really assuaged that feeling 😢
I'm with you 100% here. It also feels so... bitter, to have three games' worth of characters and choices boiled down to "realistically, Rook wouldn't know." I'm not really looking for a realistic, boring timeline in my fantasy video game series, I'm looking for the satisfaction of watching pieces i've set in motion land where they may. The whole point of this being an interactive story was that my end result was supposed to be different depending on the choices I made. I still plan on buying and enjoying the game, and so far I've seen little to make me wary of the story/character arcs we go through, but man, I don't think it ever won't be disappointing that the writing team decided to fall behind the "realistically, you wouldn't know" approach instead of taking the time to write out even a few codex entries or ambient dialogue. DA games have always had a default world state good for new players, with the Option to add in previous choices if you had them--I don't understand why that couldn't happen again for Veilguard. ESPECIALLY for events that really would have long-reaching repercussions, like the Divine, Kieran's existence, the Well, who's stuck in the Fade, the Empress, if HoF found the cure for the Calling, etc.
I kiss your hands for every word you write c":
I appreciate ppl defending and being hopeful. We did wait 10 yrs but honestly the more ik about it the more i can see it for what it is the game was just rushed and compressed
It was a live service game that was quickly remade into a single player game late in development and it really shows.
"this is the best case scenario"
This is the most asinine take
If they wanted new fans they shouldn't have done a sequel to DAI at all. Even the choices they picked that mattered from DAI are bland and pretty much similar. I'm sure that many off us didn't feel overwhelmed when we started Witcher 3 before Witcher 2 and dialogue options prodded if we played the previous. It's called being lazy, on both the Keep thing and writing
Here's how I personally view it, since I'm currently replaying Inquisition. A lot of the choices we made in the trilogy boiled down to just small references, with the biggest ones being which Warden you meet in Inquisition and if Kieran exists (and if so if it was through the ritual or just regular romance). Anders dead or alive? doesn't matter outside of maybe a small war map event, our Warden dead or alive? Also ultimately doesn't matter since, unlike Hawke, we don't meet them directly anyway.
I think the simple fact is that a lot of the old decisions already have had their culmination in the minds of Bioware. Like the epilogue for a romanced Leliana and the Warden kind capping of her character arc entirely (especially if she is Divine). Kieran having the soul of an elder god also more or less gets undone in Inquisition, too. So there is honestly not that much they could even import over into Veilguard that wouldn't boil down to a small codex entry or a reference in dialogue. Exception being choices that were made directly in Inquisition, of which they at least have some; but ultimately they did fumble that, too, because it's just not enough (even if some stuff like romanced Iron Bull clearly will factor in that he didn't stay loyal to the Qun or he'd be dead by default, but that choice will boil down to a line or two from the Inquisitor and that's it, like the other romances will.).
I’m just saying why would you make the keep, then a game about ‘world breaking decisions’. I did think inquisition would have more but I could set that aside since it was so clear that they were making bigger decisions for the future.
I hate this whole thing of ‘new fans’ that’s what the default world state was for. It’s a tactic to get them to go back and play the old games. I played DA2 after origins but didn’t do any dlc. There were just some missions redacted but it didn’t interfere with anything.
I’m not expecting for Anders or Blackwall to show up. I do expect at least some of the decisions effecting Tevinter or the Anderfells to show up. I do expect Varric to know Hawkes gender or if they were a mage. I do expect Morrigan to know if she has a son. I don’t know what their hardon for Solas is but it’s never affected me and they had more plot points to go off of. I’m glad they changed the name at least.
"Hawke? Who's that? Never met that guy or lady, idk what you're talking about."
- Varric in DA:V
Yes defend the laziness.. just remove the pseudo choices next time and don't bother including ''player choices''
What would the Veilguard still have of the RPG roots pf the series, if the legacy choices don't matter and the new ones will matter even less?
The new ones will matter within the game.
It was never required for Bioware to have meaningful, interesting, or plentiful callbacks to earlier game decisions. Not a single game decision can't be sidestepped by a contrivance until the HoF's hero journey and Champion of Kirkwall's tale are indeed as irrelevant as Redcliffe's citizens left to be butchered by the undead. After all, the devs themselves are offering not these thought-out explanations you're providing in this vid for why even the most impactful player choices can be ignored. Instead they just say events are up north... so far north apparently that nothing that's happened in Thedas in any of the previous games affected it whatsoever... other than the 2 things- the Inq's romance (which may never have happened, as in my case) and the Inquisition status (likely only reflecting the Inq's motivation to be there). The 3rd player indulgence is not a callback but instead a choice of two pre-generated scene variants requiring the player's cue of an apparent intention for the Inq 10yrs later.
When you come down to it, it's kinda easy then to just ignore previous DA altogether, even build all new DA games without any callbacks or impactfulness at all... if that's what you want to do.
But the question really isn't "How can all previous DA player-affected content be effectively completely ignored?" I don't want to ask that question. No one other than the DA4 devs- and apparently you- want to ask that. The real question is why would a DA game be crafted without it? Why would a DA dev team intentionally disregard it? Why would they ever stoop to minimizing player involvement in the franchise so deliberately, categorically, and comprehensively? Why would Bioware ever think that a DA with hardly any meaningful, interesting callbacks is acceptable? It's a complete departure from DA. So why?
Laziness. It's easier. Occam's Razor explains it best. Epler answered as such already: the "everything's in the north" sidestep was intentionally simply to avoid having to account for anything. It's not about wanting a game more focused on Rook's story. Was DA2 not about Hawke's story just because it had a cameo by Zevran (if he lived) or by Alistair (if he was made king)? Was DAI not the Inquisitor's story just because both the HoF and Hawke- or even potentially Loghain- wander through that story as well? It's an asinine suggestion that Rook's story requires nullification of previous DA experience. Almost sounds like fear of comparisons- or a sense that the HoF, CoK, and Inq were of a different caliber.
If a Rook requires the removal of previous protagonists, that is in no way necessary to DA, the lore, or the gameworld itself. It's a decision based on an attitude by the devs toward the franchise as a whole. They simply don't care about previous DA player decisions. Not even smaller ones. NONE matter to them. ALL are thrown into the book-burning pile, as far as they're concerned. Henceforth there shall be ONLY the new Bioware's material (still greedily taking advantage of Gaider's original lore, of course), and thou shalt worship no other DA content than the new team's. Or, as Epler says in pure cynicism, you can go play the other content: it's just not welcome here anymore...
A shameless and embarrassing defense of an inexcusable oversight.
Or... we can call it for what it is. Laziness. And chasing after new audience, while continuously showing the middle finger to their long-time supporters.
Also:
Ashe: "For him to use that power would be devastatingly out of character".
Would it, though?
Solas to Rook: "Firstly, I abohore the use of blood magic. Secondly, had I the power to control you, I would already have used it."
I hate this performative "your playthrough is valid!" nonsense by the devs. Your playthrough is valid, only we don't care about it and aren't going to address it. Which means, they are going to intentionally do things that invalidate my playthrough by pretending they didn't happen or had no impact. They can't have it both ways: you can't pretend to care about player choice and "choices that matter" but then tell your returning players that nothing they really did mattered accept 3 specific things. But this is sort of like their approach to LGBTQIA+ inclusion: being pansexual is the most inclusive sexuality ever! so it's better than all the others and it's the only one worth including, right? SOME people in that LGBTQIA+ acronym just matter more than others, I guess. And some don't matter at all to the devs. But you're valid uwu!!!
I understand when choices are omitted because they are not relevant to what the story is about. Everyone can understand this but MORRIGAN IS IN THE FUCKING GAME!! One of the biggest and most important character! Choices relating to her has massive effects and implications.
Without her there would be no Ferelden left!
I'm pretty sure you can play dao without her (she only comes to offer the Dark Ritual option) and still conquer the blight, plus be alive, thanks to Loghain's or Alustair's sacrifice. Still, I do agree that her having Kieran should matter (and ngl I'd love to see him in Veilguard).
@@Cameron-fk5fkShe isn’t going to fuck you just because you’re replying to every comment in the thread criticizing her points.
@@mayanasia morrigan literally give the inquisition the possibility to kill corypheus dragon, wtf you saying.
@murono22 The Well of Sorrows gives the solution to kill Corypheus' dragon. If your Quizzy drinks from it, they tame a dragon and Morrigan has nothing to do with it.
Edit: specifically, the voices of the priests preserved in the Well
@@mayanasia They only discover the well of sorrows because of morrigan what u saying?
Sorry Ashe, even though it feels to me you have selected your words very carefully here, I don't think even you believe many aspects of this take. Reason is simple: If not pointing to Baldur's Gate 3 with an almost infinite number of permutations, even DA:I did it much better than this.
I never intended to buy this game at the start anyways. Maybe after some reviews are out and they have to be 90%+, I may consider it.
If they’d reveal the 3 choices thing much sooner. All of this would had happened much sooner and cool down. The devs just keep making too many red flags.
I haven't seen any red flags yet, what do you refer to?
@@sofajockeyUK -They kept the 3 choices in the dark until it was leaked
-Virtual signaling director
-no keep
- claimed game is inherently very queer
- pronouns and top scar
- The elves(unless there half elves) and qunari look human
- 10 years of development only 3 choices
- Layoffs
- Gets called tourists
- Director don’t know who Zervan is
- Disrespecting fans
- Bad reasonings for the 3 choices
- Woke propaganda being push like every gaming company?
@@Sambo941 That's quite a dumb list. The director has clearly brought system design expertise, that's her claim to fame. The game has queer characters as BioWare games have had since Baldur's Gate II. It has pronouns. We all have pronouns. You have pronouns. You can't pick between 3 tabs? Top scars toggle for