Time and time again it's proven that power levels are not linear at least until the saiyan saga, so Goku having 10 at the beggining of DB is fine. It's funny how you just take into account the car but ignore all the other strenght and speed statements and showings.
can you give some examples? db has basically no official power levels till the sayian saga, so dont you think its weird to say its non linear in the non power levels era? its alot easier to just ignore the 10
@yurazah Goku takes a whole day to climb Korin's tower at first but he later climbs up and down in just 3 hours. Goku said that his power doesn't compare to Old King Piccolo's, and Old King Piccolo replies by saying that he wasn't even using half of his strenght. According to Piano, Old Demon King Piccolo is "nothing" compared to Young King Piccolo. Piccolo Jr says he has gotten "many times" stronger than Young King Piccolo. And I'm ignoring the fact that Roshi and Piccolo destroyed the freaking moon.
@@dimitri4888 I see, its hard to keep everything 100% consistent even within your own story (like goku struggling to lift 40 tons) I think anything like this would probably have minor issues, a big underlying idea behind the video is me trying to justify old db having linear powers to be consistent with their depiction in z and I think it works pretty well to be interpreted in this way, but your right that you could argue thoes things and easily blow things out of proportion saying stuff like they got 2x stronger over and over, thats definitely a viable interpretation aswell.
3:30 It wasn’t Super it was Toriyama. DB Minus is the bonus chapter at the end of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman. Drawn and written by Toriyama. While the special was canon to the manga originally (and I prefer it by a mile) it’s no longer canon. In minus, we actually don’t see Bardock’s confrontation with Freeza (unlike DBS Broly) so you’re supposed to assume he changed outfits before that occurs.
yeah, I did know that, just trying to justify why I want to keep considering the special cannon. hey thanks for checking out my video your a big inspiration to me!
BTW would you just consider minus cannon? (Cause he could have swapped the outfit?) And not the brolly scene? Cause we see his rebellion in brolly and he's wearing his super armor, so technically inconsistent with the manga pannel)
wait, why specifically is the original Bardock Special not canon? did Toriyama say it isn't? or did something in DBM contradict it? you say we don't see his confrontation with Freeza (based for spelling it that way) in DBM... doesn't that leave room? room for the version of events depicted in the special?
power levels can't be linear. freeza blows up a planet with a power level of 530,000. this would put a normal human at a power level of a whopping 0.00000000000000000000000002. and that's being generous.
Planet busting in the DB universe is way easier than real life planet busting In DB, all it takes is to "damage the core" of a planet for it to destabilize and explode, which is complete nonsense IRL and not how things work at all, making destroying planets far easier than it would be IRL, planet cores are not bombs, not even close, and the amounts of power required to make a planet "explode" IRL would be absurdly higher. This is confirmed with the fact that even master Roshi and Piccolo were able to blow up the moon with a relatively super weak power level for such an insane feat., Piccolo with just a power level of less than 1000 blew the moon up with no effort at all, and trust me, the moon is massive.
@@DeMooniCyour point doesn't work since with context we know it's not just destabilizing the core they are destabilizing the gravity which would require as much energy as the gbe of the planet Also they destroy planets at a subatomic level which would far outclass the gbe Also proof And planet busting in db is actually much harder since even earth is 3 to 4× larger than it is irl and the Average planet has the same gbe as a star
Dragon Ball Z writing is inconsistent. Alot of things are not meant to be taken literally or mathematically calculated. Toriyama prefers "fun" over literal power scaling
@@yurazah I wouldn't say they're consistent at any point of the story, Piccolos power level is 3500 against Nappa who's at 4000 and he doesn't stand a chance even with help from the other Z fighters, meanwhile Goku is having a fairly even fight with a Kaio-Ken X3 power level of 24000 against Vegeta at 15000. Either way I enjoyed your video trying to make power levels more consistent compared to the "official" power levels of the Daizenshuu.
@@TjarpDex Even Nappa's power level of 4000 makes no sense if you pick at it a bit more. Piccolo can barely touch Nappa at 3500, but Nappa calms down and shoots a big attack at Goku, who is 8000+, and Goku feels pressured enough to counter with a Kamehameha and says that attack could have seriously damaged him?
@@TheAzulmagia well, being consistent with what I said in my video... I dont really believe in the guide book power levels, so nappa could be around 7000-8000 even, as he has no true official power level
Unpopular opinion but I actually prefer the og dragon ball (I read the manga btw) because it feels more magical than dbz. You can clearly tell the difference between the chinese inspiration for the og and the western sci-fi inspiration for dbz. Just my opinion tho
Yeah that's cool but DBZ is still better tho. OG Dragon Ball is 80% jokes, gags, and tournaments with basically zero stakes going on. If that fits your vibe better, cool, but it's just way less appealing for most people. Every fight in DBZ has stakes going on, everything is super dramatic, the dialogue goes hard and the one liners go absolutely insane. Everything is generally just bigger, flashier and more important. Dragon Ball feels like an appetizer for DBZ in that sense. The best villain in OG Dragon Ball is Demon King Piccolo, who ain't even on the mount Rushmore of Dragon Ball villains imo. And no Vegeta or Gohan basically means that DB just doesn't have any interesting characters to speak of at all outside of Piccolo Jr. No disrespect to Tien, he was a fine antagonist, but if he was more interesting Toriyama would have probably used him more than once after that. "But what about Goku" Goku as a kid is a good gag character but that's about it. Then there's all the weird shit OG Dragon Ball does constantly. Bro if your parents walked in on you watching OG Dragon Ball you'd change the channel. You don't want to have to explain any of that crap. What's with Japanese people and panties. Basically, I'm saying that OG DB probably does just vibe with you better, but there's many good reasons that opinion ain't popular.
@@GeorgePerakiszero stakes? You can't be serious. Who could predict that Roshi would step out from the ring? Furthermore with Tiens victory. And Kami disguised as some nerd on next tournament...
Agreed, I especially hate how the fighting in Z degenerates into endless pointless kicks and punches and the occasional energy beam attack, that is always the exact same.
Yes, Roshi could hang with Tien who had a PL of 180 (going by memory, I think it was around 180) by going semi-buff. You'd think his fully muscular form would be even higher.
@@Procrastinaterkinda... But Tien was like supercocky, he wasn't fighting serious until he used Taio- Ken. Roshi definitely could give Tien a run for his money, but would loose in the end anyway. It's a pity he gave up that early and there was no rematch... It could be like Rocky vs Appolo
@@alexzero3736 Roshi always figured that he had been surpassed, if anything he undersold himself. Tien figured he had not begun to fight seriously yet, which is true, Roshi could still draw out a lot more power, and he did not use his lightning flash suprise attack, a move I do not see Tien having an answer to. Likewise, Tien did not use his four arm technique or kikoho against Roshi. Roshi forfited the fight as he saw potential in Tien and pitied his situation being under the thumb of crane hermit.
Great video, as someone who's also dabbled into this stuff I can appreciate the effort that's put into this! I'm going to check out the Sparking Zero BP video after this and I hope you continue making content like this. I want to say, though, over the years I've NEVER seen anyone actually take the Movie 3 Pamphlet numbers seriously so please let me know who you've seen using them because I want to see what kind of person would do that. About the Kid Goku being just a 10 thing; I know the out-of-universe explanation is that the staff just didn't think about it that much but in-universe I've always thought of the Scouter numbers to follow a kind of logarithmic function where the gap between, say, 5 and 10 would be exponential but the gap between 50,000 and 100,000 would be linear. It makes sense for Frieza's army where even the weaker soldiers like Raditz have a battle power of 1,500 and can nuke entire continents in a single attack so instead of their energy level being 1.5 x 10^29 Joules it's just 1,500 with no unit. Then backtracking from that number, if it were linear, both someone like a regular human and a trained martial artist like Kid Goku would have a battle power of almost 0. So it could make sense why the numbers are 5 and 10 instead for readability's sake, both in-universe and out-of-universe. You could even argue that the power levels get more linear at the end so that when Frieza pulls out his "My power level is 530,000" it appears that much more intimidating. Like the soldiers think that two guys with a PL of 5 have no chance against a guy with a PL of 10 and so Frieza with his massive 530k numba is absolutely unsurpassable but they'd be wrong because they CAN surpass him just by ranging a few parks with Android 17. The power levels getting linear at the end also explains why Piccolo can jump from 3,500 in the Saiyan Arc to over 250,000 in the Namek arc in just a few days; it just appears like a big jump according to the power level system when in reality it's more or less his regular rate of growth.
ya I agree that the non linear interpretation works and is obviously the widely accepted interpretation, I thought it would be interesting to push back against that a bit here. also the specific example of movie 3 pamphlet, alot of bigger db creators who dont look that deep into power levels have used it, like masako x has used the ox king 900 level before, tho keep in mind he cares very little for power scaling and his videos prioritize narrative even if it dosent make sense power wise (also the sz video is kinda low effort, I didnt expect this one to do so well, I'll have to make more like this in the future.)
Power levels in Dragon Ball are logarithmic, otherwise they would make no sense at all, especially after the Saian saga, but it does not change the fact that within 70 episodes, the power inflation in Dragon Ball reached such a rate that the creator of this scale had to permanently stop using it. otherwise we would have a Zimbabwe simulator instead of Dragon ball.
Got a hefty comment with some thoughts. I really enjoyed this video, it got my brain gears turning! 4:50 It’s worth considering how ki control works. Most people don’t know how to do it, so they’re just using physical muscles for punches and lifting. Someone with the same muscular strength, but with ki control added to that, would be able to exert greater force. I believe that’s part of what Goku was doing with lifting the car, how he was able to throw it and everything. For evidence, he managed to shoot a Kamehameha Wave on his first try. That shows he had some level of ki control already. This is likely also how Goku and friends can tank bullets, by strengthening their bodies with ki (which is something mentioned later in the franchise) even if only subconsciously. 6:16 Note that movement speed doesn’t always track linearly with strength. For a later example, Burter is significantly faster than Jeice, despite being around the same Power Level. The same applies to lifting strength, that not everybody with the same power level will have the same lifting strength. Some people are faster, others are more muscular. Even all-out ki blasts can differentiate in power between people with the same base Power Level, depending on the technique used. Really, the only constant is the Power Level itself, which can be sensed directly. 6:30 LOL I love that Launch joke. Anyway I do think she probably got stronger in her blond form, but I think it’s more that blue Launch is a ditz and doesn’t know how to use her strength properly. Compare it to Ginyu in Goku's body, maybe? 11:55 I personally think Arale’s Power Level is but to each their own. Another one I personally am confident on is Sourman, whose Power Level is "not sour enough" lol 16:10 Personally, I believe Roshi’s Max Power form (where he’s buff) is a x1.5 multiplier, similar to SSJ Grade 2. I think it’s a comparable transformation, since Roshi mentions it’s hard to move in Max Power mode. Also, regarding the power needed to blow up the Moon, I kinda doubt that you need to be as strong as 329 (Piccolo’s canon power with weights at the time) to do it since Piccolo just kinda did it on a whim, so I’m willing to believe Roshi could blow up the Moon with as little as 100-200. 18:15 I'd personally argue the Ultra Divine Water was the direct reason for the power boost, without any Zenkai involved. Zenkais are meant to be when there's damage caused by battle, not by poisons or illnesses. Also, note that Goku didn't mention getting a power boost until after he recovered from the drink, not when he healed after the fight with Old King Piccolo. 22:40 I think it's likely Yajirobe got a bit stronger from climbing Korin Tower with Goku on his back and hanging out where the air is thinner, plus he got a tiny taste of the Ultra Divine Water (maybe a Power Level increase of 1 or something). Also, I choose to believe he trained at least a bit on his own during those 3 years. 24:15 I believe Piccolo's weights bring him down by a percentage, not by a solid number. In the Raditz fight, his weights bring him down to around 78.9% (let's round and say it's 80%). 80% of 294 would be around 232. Additionally, it's worth mentioning that Piccolo was actually going easy on Krillin to avoid killing him, and he was caught off-guard with how crafty Krillin can be.
Funnily enough I already have my own numbers for this I just. . made the list for myself, not to share But it'll be fun comparing my numbers to yours Edit: 3:11 Okay, first thing is. . I kind of threw this out too. . . I basically did power scaling of Dragon Ball itself first, and *then* fit it into DBZ power levels It just felt like the way to go about it Edit 2: Back to the previous point, this actually did bring up issues because if my numbers were correct (obviously they weren't) it would make Tien and Kami actually get *weaker* during the 5 year time skip That's been fixed by now, but it was kind of funny when it happened Edit 3: 5:21 How do we *really* know the Farmer with a Shotgun is an average farmer? Maybe he's actually really strong, but we wouldn't really know because the only person we ever see him fight is Raditz who was literally 300 times stronger than him
I know it's a "super saiyan style" (the style which Trunks, after training with Vegeta tries to use against Cell), but it could make sense that Master Roshi was actually using it in his fight against Uzaru Goku in the second tournament.... it kind of looks just like it, and he did zero dodging while using it, his whole intent was to beef up his power so that he could blow up the moon. it would also mean that he's used that same technique a couple other times, including when he put out the fire mountain right before Goku learned the Kamehameha, and it would also give some meaning to that whole fake-out when it comes up in DBZ. Trunks had discovered a power that Roshi had learned years ago, and was misapplying it, in a proper martial arts fight against Cell, whereas Roshi was using it in its proper way - Destroying gigantic stationary objects. just a thought I had while watching this video.
Here’s my two cents on the manner of power levels: 1. A power level of 10 is meant to represent the power of a peak human Athlete in their prime, normal humans with no training or Ki control will rarely get passed 10. 2. The power levels shown are meant to represented as “resting” power levels that are risen with training and ki control, which then can be compressed and make their attacks more powerful than their resting power levels. (Which confuses me on why the hell the Ox King is so high when compared to Roshi.) 3. Power levels are gauged by three factors: Strength, Speed and Ki (Control, compression and power) and is rounded by average (so having a high strength and and a low ki can be the difference between another that has high ki and high strength), a balance in all three is recommended for the best results of power training. 4. Power levels generate a passive ki shield, which lets people tank attacks that a normal person would not survive and either negates or severely reduces the damage taken when being hit by someone weaker than themselves. The Deizenshu states that in order to start doing the maximum damage to someone stronger than you are, you need to be within 20% (resting power level or the compression of your ki attack must be within 20%) of the opponent’s higher power level (eg: you have a power level of 80 and your opponent have a power level of 100), only then will your attacks start hitting their mark (with resistance, but the gap closes as your power level does).
5:00 I know it probably wouldn't change anything, but couldn't we just use the weight of the irl cars for that? Bulma's cars in the manga and promo are a 1980 Renault 5 Turbo and a 1965 Triumph TR4A respectively. Even if they're shown with a superdeformed design I'd still say they weight the same.
Love Dragon ball but i don't think Freeza should've gotten a power level in his first form. It was also a mistake to give him a level in the millions in his 2nd form. At least the numbers were ignored after Namek
it can be hard to balance your story and maintain narrative tension when everyone has an exact number, that being said, while hard, it can add alot to your story when done well, like alot of the power levels in db are only introduced to be subverted later, like goku and piccolo still winning while at a massive disadvantage.
Being a ninja and thus presumably having martial arts training, Shu/Shao/Sho/Shoe whatever the localization calls the little fox guy this time around could easily be in the higher single digits and break nothing in terms of power scale. He'd be the muscle of the group.
@@Grape_Rush_Goat That ninja's definitely a better one at the whole ninja gig and I expect his ki levels to be higher. The little fox ninja might only be a 6 like a common foot soldier, but I would prefer to highball him at a 9.
It’s funny. I’ve always found Goku supposedly being at a power level of 10 as weird. Goku was trained by Gohan, the fourth strongest being on the planet for like 7 years, and you’re telling me he’s only 5 points stronger than a farmer with a shot gun? That implies that had Goku not got Gohan’s training ( again fourth strongest guy on the planet), he could have very well been at a power level of 5 or lower. That’s what led me to believe that being a saiyan on its own doesn’t make you that much stronger than your average human. The thing that I head cannoned was that the main difference was your average adult Saiyan can manipulate ki, which they can use to manipulate their strength and durability
Kid goku being 10 makes sense the reasons being if you are over like actual 2 times strong as someone you can easily kill them. (Vegeta vs Qui) We see kid goku get hurt by bullets so it isnt that far off to say 10. If it were actually 70 kid goku would geniunly solo the whole series with oozaru. Great video tho
Dude I think you're massively overestimating being double as strong as someone else, and massively underestimating bullets. Lots of real people are many times stronger than the average joe, but they're not cutting firewood with their hands, punching through brick walls or goddamn tanking bullets.
@@killarjnNo, No, Farmer WITH a Shotgun is 5, and Goku is 10. Being 2x means you are essentially invulnerable to attacks of that level. While it wasn't a complete negation of damage, he remained relatively unharmed, and the unexpected factor have to be taken into consideration as well.
I love the concept you stated. Because it’s absolutely true. Power levels are most definitely linear. But not in ways that most fans are aware of. Farmer - 5 Weak. Goku - 50 or 45. Exceptionally Strong. I’d put him at 45. Meaning Goku is degrees Stronger than ur average Earthling. 3 months of adventures with Bulma & Yamcha. Goku’s power level @ 45 stays the same. Goku is 11 years of age in the beginning of DB. 9 months of training with Krillin & Master Roshi, Goku jumps to 90. Krillin is either 72 or 75. Yamcha is 60. Both Goku (12) & Roshi aka Jackie Chun @ power level 90. Goku lost cuz he was shorter, his leg could not deliver the same power as Roshi, uh I mean Mr. Chun. 3 years later, Goku age 15 has a power level 180. Tienshinhan - 175. Yajirobè - 172. Master Roshi 139. Krillin 150. Yamcha 145. Chaotzu - 130. This is the start of The Great Demon King Piccolo Arc. Goku’s power level jumps to 260. Old Demon King Piccolo - 210. Youth Demon King Piccolo - 250. Remember, Goku is still Stronger & Faster. This is why G.D.K.P. calls Goku a Monster. Goku is superior to him still. All throughout DB, Goku surpassed all of his opponents. That’s why in DBZ, Goku feelz fear in a way he neva experience fear in his childhood & teenage years. Goku defeats King Piccolo in epic fashion. 3 years later, Goku age 18, his power level is 360. Piccolo Jr is 350. Anotha epic battle. Goku wins, just barely, but he managed to get a victory. I wanted to note, Goku @ 15 did get Stronger than General Tao. Long b4 he gets the Holy Divine Water to get a Power Boost. The Low Power Levels in DBZ make it unfortunate for DB, bcuz it puts a limit on how strong these characters can get. Namely Goku. Goku should be must Stronger than minor increases he gains at select times. However, it must line up and connect with DBZ power levels at the very start. Really Great vid. I can’t wait for more. Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
I really enjoyed this I hope you do a remake of this version and then continue on each of the other series. Because sadly you might have only did half of the actual research that you needed or at the minimum 25% of the research you needed but even with that I did enjoy this I can't wait to see what happens next if you do a remake of this one and then move on to the next series of dragon Ball.
its starting to sink in how insane blowing up the moon actually is. we dont question it as much because it's so far away when they do it, but imagine master roshi literally blowing up an entire CONTINENT to dust, which the moon is comparable to, if not a degree more massive since its a continent length across and also deep.
I think the best proof that power levels are exponential is that characters manage to catch up to and exceed whatever level of power was previously strongest. Despite having relatively similar training with Kami, Goku was slightly stronger than Piccolo for the tournament, but Krillin, Tien and Yamcha, all characters with indisputably lower potential than Goku, all surpassed Raditz who was more than 3.5 times stronger than Goku at the start of Z (post- five-year time-skip). Zenkais are also incredibly inconsistent probably because power levels are exponential. After literally dying and coming back to life + training with King Kai for a year, Goku went from 416 to over 8 or 9000. After getting badly beat up in the Ginyu fight, he went from a base power level of 90,000 to 3,000,000. Literally going from weaker than Ginyu to arguably stronger than Freeza in his third form.
You realize most of your issues with power levels are entirely nullified if you just got rid of your assumption power levels are linear? Because they most certainly aren't. Never were. If anything there's infinitely more proof showing they're exponential Proof: i can give more but I'll start out with this. Farmer with a shotgun caps at 5. You consider him a normal person. Alright. Roshi with a power level of 139 destroys the god damn moon. Let's round that to 140 just for a more solid number. By your logic that power levels are linear. Then master roshi is only 28 times stronger than the farmer. So either the farmer can destroy 1/28th of the moon with that shotgun. Or power levels are not linear and therefore are exponential. More proof. Vegeta in the namek saga. Has a power level of 24,000 only 2000 higher than zarbon. And yet with that super minor difference in power he absolutely no diffed first form zarbon and dodoria. Stuff like this is consistently shown.
Extra proof. Raditz claimed to be able to destroy earth. But even if you don't believe that Vegeta is shown casually destroying planets at a massive scale and while Severely weakened injured and exhausted could still destroy earth with a single blast. It's stated in multiple places that 10000 power levels is more than enough to be a planet buster. By that logic the average planet buster in dragon ball has the equivalent power of 2000 farmers. You see how that makes no sense linearly?
Very well done video, but I feel like power levels was a big fuck-up Toriyama did in order to make Raditz more menacing. The manga itself states that your level changes depending on your clothing, your attitude or your techniques. So honestly the best way to go is to just assume that battles are dictated by moves and not levels
It took Goku 7 years training with Kami for him to barely defeat Piccolo Jr. at the end of Dragon Ball. It took the earthlings 1 year of training with Kami for them to catch up to Raditz, who had previously soloed both Goku and Piccolor Jr. at the same time.
Piccolo getting powerful to lose life force is because there is life ki. Piccolo uses it against Dr Gero that's why he didn't gain much energy from him.
Half the time I always get the sense that Dragon Ball powerscaling is just kids on the playground trying to justify spending money on a book about power levels
The problem with Roshi's "canon power level" is that we know the way humans train, they can switch their powerlevels at will. So while base Roshi might be around 200, buffed up Kamehameha Roshi might be many times over that.
I think power levels are not linear but rather exponential. Also, when we examine human power level vs 1st goku power level we probably have to use fractions to determine the difference in power (similar to how we use centimeters but need kilometers for long distances). Its just that the power levels increased so drastically that even during the original Dragon Ball the audience could not see the fight because the contestants moved extremely fast.
2:54 tbf master roshi is just that guy, master roshi may be training behind everyone’s back while everyone thinks he’s just a funny and perverted old man, and usually doesnt show his true power (and muscles) unless he truly has to
17:37 that does seem about right for Piccolo at that point, but being unaffected by the Kamehameha at that point probably isn’t a raw power feat. It was just established that Tien was outright immune to that move due to skill and not power, and that had to have been fresh on Toriyama’s mind. I
I only use actual feats that we see and never some third party guides bc those guides never know what they're talking about (like the GT Perfect Files saying Buu Saga Vegito *may* be stronger than SS4, which many people use to lowball GT's scaling without ever looking at any feats.) also thank you for mentioning that Z Bardock is in the manga, therefore making Super not canon to the original series
This is actually pretty well reasoned, most people seem to make pretty wild claims for power levels, honestly I find that ignoring as many guides as possible helps everything make a lot more sense lol.
You also have to remember that Goku actually hit his head so most likely a lot of his potential or his full power was sealed away because of the injuries so him originally having a power level of 10 could make sense because of the actual brain injury making him 10 times weaker than he should have been if he didn't have the brain injury so he might have been a power level of 100 without the brain injury but with it it reduces it to 10. You have to also remember that Ki is made of three parts. The energy of the mind, the energy of the body, and the energy of the spirit. It can also be positive or negative. The way your aura appears and feels to others is reflective of your actions and personalities. According to Akira Toriyama, ki is made up of three components: Genki (元気; lit. "Energy"), Yūki (勇気; lit. "Courage") and Shōki (正気; lit. "Mind"). When one of these is affected your power drops by half so another words if all three is affected you can essentially divide that by eight. When Goku hit his head he had a permanent head injury Cunningham power level automatically in half and then his mental state was that also affected cutting it again in half and then he was basically in a coma for a little bit physically weakening him again my probably half or more depending on how long he was in the coma. So all of this at least weakened him by 8 to 10 times.
Powerlevels does not make sense since they go from non linear (the increase is exponential) to linear, but the shift happens somewhere in the saiyan-namek arcs. Powerlevels were created to display the disparity in power between Radditz and Goku/Piccolo. Radditz rocked a cool 1200 and Goku and Piccolo had 400. But in actuality, they could fight at levels at and around 700, with peak outputs approaching or exceeding 1000. That is fine for early dbz going from dragon ball. Where a measly 20-30 powerlevel difference was enough to dominate an opponent, where goku at a pl of 10 could lift cars overhead while a normal human had a PL of 5 etc. You could explain Radditz not instantly killing Goku and Piccolo when he had hundreds of PL advantage as a combination of it being a 2v1 and Radditz not even trying. Remember, Mercenary Tao could throw a pillar across a continent at near hyperonic speeds, while with linear scaling "only" being twice as strong as 21'st tenkaichi bodukai goku who could only push a coupe hundred tons of rocks (maybe thousands, I can't be assed to calc the weight of the boulder he pushed when training with Roshi) Where it all breaks down is when the powerlevel difference is in the multiple thousands, at that point, around when Vegeta and Nappa arrives characters are hit with the intent to kill by opponents with more than twice their powerlevel, and with differences in the thousands and they do not evaporate when hit. Powerlevels became ever more linear. IT would be as if Yamcha from the 21'st tenkaichi budokai fought Tamborine and somehow managed to land blows or evade lethal attacks. When we see Tamborine instantly and effortlessly kill King Chappa, someone who would have easily defeated yamcha. Now that powerlevels were linear if you had twice the powerlevel you were twice as strong, and this remained true from then on, instead the powerlevel system transitioned into a combination of relative power level difference and the actual number difference. In the early saiyan saga, havbing a couple thousands of powerlevels more meant that you could dominate, which is why Vegeta could easily dispatch Cui and Dodoria even though he were only about 20-30% stronger than them. Later on and for the rest of the series it became a one needed to have twice the powerlevel to dominate an opponent, if you are within 20% you can struggle but still give a good fight etc. (Goku vs frieza, Gohan vs Cell etc) TL;DR Powerlevels was made retroactively linear from non linear due to it's introduction at the start of Z and it's overinflated numbers meant to impress. Had Toriama kept the progression as seen in Dragon Ball, Vegeta would have had a PL of 2-3000 and final form Frieza would have had maybe 10-15000.
Regarding the power difference of kuririn and goku: The proportion of needed energy for the distance can be calculated as (V1/V2)^2. For 100 meters in 8.5 and 10.4s respectively, Goku expends roughly 50% more energy than Kuririn over the course of 100m. Assuming both can "continuously" output the power to maintain these speeds one can calculate the momentary energy consumption (V1/V2)^3 which would make Goku roughly 83% stronger putting Kuririn at 57. Tbf we would have to factor in some more information since Goku and Kuririn are not exactly identical in size and mass but I wouldn't put Kuririn under 40
If always assumed it was like a square root or cube root thing. Or just a made-up thing, because bigger number looks better, especially to kids. But chuck a square or cube root (or more) over any of those numbers, and power disparities seem more reasonable (but does make Farmer more likely to blow up moons when drunk)
"No one understands Dragon Ball Power Levels" >Immediately starts using non-canon battle powers lol, lmao even. Asserting that battle powers must be linear and thus chapter 1 Goku could not have a battle power of 10, twice that of Farmer with a Shotgun is absurd when you forget that much powerful characters still have battle powers not that much higher numerically than Farmer with a Shotgun. Clearly this means that battle powers CANNOT be linear in scale.
i'll just say, there are no "cannon" battle powers for early db, toryama obviously didn't make the guide power levels so its really all up to our interpretation
@@yurazahMaster Roshi’s canon power level is 139 and that mf literally blew up the moon, if power levels are linear then it would only take 28 shotgun farmers to blow up the moon
In the beginning you say "Well a car is probably 30% less than a car on our planet..." Earth literally IS our planet. You're just pulling stuff out of nowhere to fit numbers. Not a good start.
What he probably meant with that is, since DB's Earth tech is way more advanced, he assumed that car might be lighter...? IDK lol Also the DB universe, Earth included, is VERY different in a ton of ways, including things as basic as continents, countries and much more. There's fucking dinosaurs, monsters, superhuman strenght, the whole ki blast and ki control stuff, etc. Hell, they can put houses and cars inside a freaking little capsule that somehow supresses the weight of whatever is inside, who is to say they can't make cars lighter? It's an assumption for sure, but nothing crazy or unrealistic for DB standards at all. And in case you wonder WHY they would make a car lighter, that's an easy one, because it would improve fuel efficiency and control DB is not even close to realistic so idk why that's such a big deal for you, the reality is that there's no way to perfectly powerscale everything and everyone because Akira never really gave much of a F, so there's inconsistencies everywhere Do it better if you can
I think it’s dishonest to compare a movie pamphlet and the databook. Power level doesn’t just correlate pure strength it calculates many aspects I don’t agree with hypothetically 79.
to be fair, I basically disapproved of both, I had initially given goku a 91 at that part, (assuming the car was heavier) but as I kept going it didnt work, so I had to go back and lower goku so everything else would fit better
Power Level/Fight level or whatever is just meassuring raw KI, which is why a machine can read it, otherwise it makes no sense how a machine can read how "skilled" you are, so that's never taken into account
This was great, sadly the 139 is resting Roshi, who isn't in a powered state, like he does when he blasts off a Kamehameha. I don't know where that would put him, but I imagine he's gotta be around 200s then we have the power flux of the characters whenever they charged ki blasts or took off weights, Piccolo and Goku vs Raditz. Making Power levels even more inconsistent early on sadly.
I always thought the farmer was measured at 5 because he had a shotgun so the scouter accounted for the power increase due to the weapon. Just a thought.
looking at the comments and im just thinking that no body knows anything bro, i say we just keep thinking of ways to make these numbers work, no matter what puts a question mark over what
Power comparison in Dragon Ball killed forever: Muten Roshi can blow up the moon basically instantly. Freeza requires five (very long) minutes to blow up Namek. Initial Vegeta instantly destroys bug planet. Cell needs to blow himself up to destroy Earth, and does so slowly. Nuff said.
Sadly for Yamcha, Krillin was stronger or at least faster during the 22nd (?) tournament. During the pre eliminaries Yamcha said a contestant (Tien?) did 4 fast punches but Krilling corrected him and said he also did around 3 kicks (cant remember the actual numbers).
We literally know that King piccolo's power is 260 considering that kami himself mentioned it stating that he was stronger than King Piccolo by 40 higher power level and his power level was 300.
3:32 the beginning scene in the broly movie is base of of dragon ball minus which was written by toriyama because he didnt like the special and decided to retcon it
I wish power levels never got introduced. I assume it was a way to make the Saiyans overconfident for story reasons, as that's clearly made evident by all the "we can't trust these things" scenes. But they become so nonsensical so quickly. Going from hundreds into 10k+ in just one saga, and then after Frieza, it's like classic MMO out of control power creep but even worse. And then things like Seven Deadly Sins power levels happened later, which was like when a 5 year old hears the funniest joke in the world to them, can't stop telling it to everyone everywhere, and everyone is annoyed because its just a poop joke.
If power levels were actually linear, Vegeta would be FAR more than 4000 times stronger than a human... You would need to be millions, perhaps BILLIONS of times more powerful than a human in order to destroy a planet.
I always view a person wielding a weapon as using the "battle power" of the weapon. like each weapon sort of has a battlepower all its own. The 5 that the Farmer registered wasn't just the farmer himself, it was the battlepower of the farmer wielding a single shot shotgun. Basically pitiful compared to a "Saiyan Elite" So Launch wouldn't necessarily increase her physical stats by a huge amount, but she's always heavily armed when in her altered state, So it uses the powerlevel of the Gun she uses, which is probably a 7-8? ish? something like that. honestly I prefer to view Power Levels as something that the people in the series MISTAKENINGLY rely on. They rely on power levels because they think that they have mastered "power" to a point where they can quantify it, but no matter what, Goku proves that their power level scaling is just wrong because he's always able to transcend and reach new heights of power considered impossible before. Basically until Goku brought the concept of "Training" to the universe, the only way for a being to "transcend" their power level in any noticeable way was to change their entire form. The idea that a person could do push ups and improve their power level to the point that it matters at all is laughable to the Frieza society but it's true. They are weaker because they don't train. For the Frieza society the only way to improve your power is to have a secret hidden form, whose static power is stronger then your previous form. Basically, I think Frieza is completely fundamentally wrong about power levels, and I think the story is much much better when read that way. They're a crutch that people that aren't Goku use as an excuse to not train. So long as they only ever pick on someone with a lower power level then them, then they never have to train and improve themselves, a thing they don't even THINK they can do, because their whole society is based on Power Levels and the Pecking order. But....... then they decided to post tons of information about power levels, and so the READERS started basically falling into the same trap as Frieza. and now you're basically doing the same thing and propagating the same mistaken ethos. But that's ok, you seem to have done a lot of good work so I'm quite enjoying the video.
Nope that's wrong. Scouter doesn't care about weapons. Raditz measured power of Kamehameha only in the moment of blast. Also Scouter noticed difference in speed after removal of weighted clothing.
I always imagine it as, special bardock is how frieza remembers him, and canon bardock is how he actually was, frieza probably heard some reports he probably doesnt remember the details exactly
Power levels were already nonsense before Dragon Ball. The concept was introduced many years before, in Kinnikuman - and abandoned within the space of one arc.
Also...i thing you forget that earthling warriors power up during combat or before they utilize a technique. So this numbers are the total amount of power they can achieve in any moment required, their base level before starting a fight or a media for this two scenarios?
I would say the power levels are non linear in the sense that power gain is exponential. If your power level is 100, its hard to get to 200. However if you are 1,000,000, it's not hard to get to 1,000,100.
Power levels from speculation mean nothing. But, if you want to get deeper into it. They are exponential, going from 1-2 is a huge difference, so is going from 100-200. A persons full power is locked behind something called Potential which can be unlocked through training. Saiyan Potential is tied to their Ozaru and their rage. Human potential is tied to calmness and discipline. Roshi hides his power level, 139 is not his true power. He is suppressing it there. Roshi's powered up form is not a form it's actually just what he looks like at full Ki. So Buff Roshi is actually just normal Roshi. Roshi suppresses his power like Frieza confirmed. Theres a lot of evidence that says training needs to be a mix of potential unlocks and Ki improvements. Things that unlock potential are meditative and relaxing discipline training. Things that unlock Ki are raw power, using Ki, controlling Ki, eating a lottttt of calories, exercise, and strength training. Androids have no potential, they just have tanks that can absorb Energy. Raw energy, not Ki, or spiritual energy. Ki does have raw energy in it, so they can absorb and convert Ki into raw energy. But in general using modern tech androids can store near infinite energy, they just need to be given it. So, if you have the most efficient nuclear power generator ever, you could charge up androids for a few years and they'd be much stronger than the Super characters. They may need some upgrades, but capsule tech is nearly unlimited in terms of usage. This concludes that in general, power levels are never at their maximum unless someone has their unlocked potential from a Namek or an Elder Kai. Ultimate Gohan was probably at his closest to having full potential. Despite what the dub might lead you to believe, Ki never goes DOWN. You never get weaker, but you can lose potential when your body atrophies. Power levels measure the current Ki in someone's body, a farmer, someone who regularly deals with the life energy inside of plants, would probably have a 5 Power Level due to exposure and unknowingly using Ki to give his plants life. It's like lil tiny spirit bomb training. I'd argue that God Ki in general is a useless boring copout and that Super in general isn't worth analyzing. So I'm not gonna, lol.
Althouhh i like the editing and passion put into this video, powerlevels are not linear until you get to the thousands. Theres countless statements in the series stating goku got "several" or "many" times stronger after training with Korrin and Roshi. The power levels in the diazenshu are accurate howevevr the movie ones are not since the movies are stated to take place in alternate dimensions. The movie 6 pamplhet puts tamboruines above prime piccolo in power which would make no sense, however as stated by the director of the movies, the movies take place in a seperate dimension
Another great example of power levels being different in movies due to taking place in other dimensions is that Raditz official power level is 1200 while casual and 1500 when serious however movie 20 cards state him to be 1600 when serious. This doesn't invalidate power levels just means that either 1.Everyone is stronger in the movies or 2. Power levels simply work differently in these movies. Really enjoyed the video either way keep it up
think of this as a way to interpret power levels as consistently linear, as you said theres some statements that push back against the idea, but its just a fun idea
Damn thnegs the whole point of my comment. But yeah with those dimension things it could be the possibility in alternate dimensions that some characters were born as mutants. Or different which might be why Piccolo's kids were so strong and Goku had to get stronger or it's just making the power levels of the past compare to the more linear ones. I see the movies as like a "What-if Toriyama wrote the Turles Saga." Instead. Which is sort of why it happens close to Frieza time hypothetically but they are still on earth maybe not as many humans died because Goku was just stronger and faster and the story changes around even more with it warping the whole reality. Which is possibly why powers in those universes can flucuate so heavily and why Broly might be so cracked he can face a God Goku at full power but still fear Beerus.
The reality is that power levels don't make much sense and are a complete mess because Akira never cared too much about it and used to forget stuff like that all the time resulting in tons and tons of incosistencies and plot holes impossible to fix So no point in wasting so much brain power about it To make it even worse, the usual thing people use to compare the power level of anime characters with other anime characters, you know, stuff like "city level, moon level, planet level, solar system level, etc." is useless and doesn't make any sense either because planet/moon/star busting logic and physics vary wildly in between animes simply due to the authors not being astrophysicist and not having a clue about how though a planet/moon/star really is or how they work, how much damage they are supposed to get, etc. The best example of this is DB's planet busting logic which is SUPER inaccurate, flawed and unrealistic. In DB, all you gotta do to make a planet or moon explode is damage their core significantly. Once you do, the planet either instantly or eventualy explodes depending on how much damage the core received. This is because planet/moon cores are treated as if they were the literal "heart" of a planet, like an energy or power reactor kind of thing, like a literal freaking super "nuclear" (see where the confusion might have come from) bomb of sorts, which is not at all the case IRL or in more realistic animes. Where does this assumption of mine come from? Simple, see how they throw super powerful Ki blasts everywhere yet planet never explodes UNLESS that's their intent? Yet they throw a regular ki blast with no effort into the core of any celestian body and then boom, the planet/moon is gone like nothing? How in the freaking world can 100-200 Ki Roshi and 400 Ki Piccolo destroy the freaking moon???? Even with 1000 Ki or 10k, I think that's quite absurd. People are not aware how massive the Moon is and the ridiculous energy it would take to destroy it, let alone explode it, that's the really ridiculous part, EXPLODING planet/moons into nothingness. The moon is basically just a really small planet or a really big dwarf planet. I think the moon issue tho is a combination of 2 things: Akira not being aware of how massive the moon so treating it kind of like nothing AND not undestanding how a planet/moon core works and the fact they are not a bomb or some kind of fragile delicate nuclear reactor that makes a planet explode in a million pieces if damaged, not even close at all. Another thing that confirms my theory even further about the flawed core busting logic is the fact that they can control this and make planets/moons explode instantly or slowly, like what Frieza did with Namek. It took AGES for Namek to explode, suggesting it wasn't the Ki blast impacting the core that made it explode, but the DAMAGE that the Ki blast caused to the core that led to the planet eventually exploding due to it destabilizing or something of sorts, since everything deteriorated little by little before it exploded.
I did enjoy this video but you need to dig a lot deeper than what you did in order to get everything perfect you need to go into every single detail that could possibly go into including where a person was born and how separating into two would make a person weaker and everything in between.
Daizenshuu should be trusted and everyone’s Power Levels is correct. The powerscaling in Dragon Ball works in such a way that if the first is at least twice as strong as the second, this means that he is much times stronger than him in strength, speed and defense. Frieza in his second form with a power level of 1,000,000 is capable of destroying the universe. In the Trunks arc, all the characters have 200 million and each is capable of defeating Frieza with one blow, in the Cell games arc, all the characters after training have above 500 billion, and I’m generally silent about the Buu saga, there is a redistribution of quadrillions. Scale power level: 10: build level 100: moon level 1000: planet level 10k: star level 100k: galaxy level 1mln: universe level 10mln: multiverse level 100mln: hyperverse level Results: Goku (Namek saga, Super Saiyan) with 150mln power levels is hyperversal
Consider that "1" power level could very well mean the power of one average person It makes more sense to me this way than quantifying it as some sort of physical Stat, because I would place bulma and most normal characters around 1, but the farmer with a shot gun only being marginally more powerfull than an unarmed average warrior doesn't make much sense That is to say if we're counting accessories and weapons into their power level, that's how bulma could be where she was at
My theory is that power levels are exponential like someone with a power level of 5 is more than five times stronger than someone with a power level 1 that can explain why roshi was able to obliterate the moon with a PL of 160
It actually makes sense that Arale's power fluctuates randomly from 1 - infinity so it really just depends on the moment.
She beat Vegeta
Time and time again it's proven that power levels are not linear at least until the saiyan saga, so Goku having 10 at the beggining of DB is fine. It's funny how you just take into account the car but ignore all the other strenght and speed statements and showings.
can you give some examples? db has basically no official power levels till the sayian saga, so dont you think its weird to say its non linear in the non power levels era? its alot easier to just ignore the 10
@yurazah Goku takes a whole day to climb Korin's tower at first but he later climbs up and down in just 3 hours.
Goku said that his power doesn't compare to Old King Piccolo's, and Old King Piccolo replies by saying that he wasn't even using half of his strenght.
According to Piano, Old Demon King Piccolo is "nothing" compared to Young King Piccolo.
Piccolo Jr says he has gotten "many times" stronger than Young King Piccolo.
And I'm ignoring the fact that Roshi and Piccolo destroyed the freaking moon.
@@dimitri4888 I see, its hard to keep everything 100% consistent even within your own story (like goku struggling to lift 40 tons) I think anything like this would probably have minor issues, a big underlying idea behind the video is me trying to justify old db having linear powers to be consistent with their depiction in z and I think it works pretty well to be interpreted in this way, but your right that you could argue thoes things and easily blow things out of proportion saying stuff like they got 2x stronger over and over, thats definitely a viable interpretation aswell.
@@dimitri4888 I think you misinterpreted what I said, I basically agreed with you that it was a viable way to interpret events.
@yurazah My bad, tbh I couldn't concentrate well when I was reading your comment and typing that third comment I deleted.
3:30 It wasn’t Super it was Toriyama. DB Minus is the bonus chapter at the end of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman. Drawn and written by Toriyama. While the special was canon to the manga originally (and I prefer it by a mile) it’s no longer canon. In minus, we actually don’t see Bardock’s confrontation with Freeza (unlike DBS Broly) so you’re supposed to assume he changed outfits before that occurs.
yeah, I did know that, just trying to justify why I want to keep considering the special cannon. hey thanks for checking out my video your a big inspiration to me!
@@yurazah thanks! hope your channel does well :)
BTW would you just consider minus cannon? (Cause he could have swapped the outfit?) And not the brolly scene? Cause we see his rebellion in brolly and he's wearing his super armor, so technically inconsistent with the manga pannel)
wait, why specifically is the original Bardock Special not canon? did Toriyama say it isn't? or did something in DBM contradict it?
you say we don't see his confrontation with Freeza (based for spelling it that way) in DBM... doesn't that leave room? room for the version of events depicted in the special?
power levels can't be linear. freeza blows up a planet with a power level of 530,000. this would put a normal human at a power level of a whopping 0.00000000000000000000000002. and that's being generous.
@@yurazah the turtle in canon has a power level of 0.001. That same turtle protected maron from 2 human dudes using turtle style lol
Planet busting in the DB universe is way easier than real life planet busting
In DB, all it takes is to "damage the core" of a planet for it to destabilize and explode, which is complete nonsense IRL and not how things work at all, making destroying planets far easier than it would be IRL, planet cores are not bombs, not even close, and the amounts of power required to make a planet "explode" IRL would be absurdly higher. This is confirmed with the fact that even master Roshi and Piccolo were able to blow up the moon with a relatively super weak power level for such an insane feat., Piccolo with just a power level of less than 1000 blew the moon up with no effort at all, and trust me, the moon is massive.
@@SuperKamiGuruu Thats totally non canon, Bulma never read the turtles power in the manga and the whole Maron character its just from the anime.
@@DeMooniCyour point doesn't work since with context we know it's not just destabilizing the core they are destabilizing the gravity which would require as much energy as the gbe of the planet
Also they destroy planets at a subatomic level which would far outclass the gbe
Also proof
And planet busting in db is actually much harder since even earth is 3 to 4× larger than it is irl and the Average planet has the same gbe as a star
11:57: "I'd say Arale's power fluxuates from 1 and infinite"
I literally burst out laughing. That is SO funny.
Dragon Ball Z writing is inconsistent. Alot of things are not meant to be taken literally or mathematically calculated. Toriyama prefers "fun" over literal power scaling
while id agree with you, toryama had pretty consistent numbers when he used them in the sayian and freeza sagas
@@yurazah I wouldn't say they're consistent at any point of the story, Piccolos power level is 3500 against Nappa who's at 4000 and he doesn't stand a chance even with help from the other Z fighters, meanwhile Goku is having a fairly even fight with a Kaio-Ken X3 power level of 24000 against Vegeta at 15000.
Either way I enjoyed your video trying to make power levels more consistent compared to the "official" power levels of the Daizenshuu.
@@TjarpDex Even Nappa's power level of 4000 makes no sense if you pick at it a bit more. Piccolo can barely touch Nappa at 3500, but Nappa calms down and shoots a big attack at Goku, who is 8000+, and Goku feels pressured enough to counter with a Kamehameha and says that attack could have seriously damaged him?
@@TheAzulmagiabecause power levels fluctuates when using Ki attacks lol
@@TheAzulmagia well, being consistent with what I said in my video... I dont really believe in the guide book power levels, so nappa could be around 7000-8000 even, as he has no true official power level
Shotgun farmer could solo SSJ4 Gogeta
Rs
Y’all are pushing that meme to its limits😂
Base cabba with shotgun solos
Unpopular opinion but I actually prefer the og dragon ball (I read the manga btw) because it feels more magical than dbz. You can clearly tell the difference between the chinese inspiration for the og and the western sci-fi inspiration for dbz. Just my opinion tho
Im a huge og fan
Yeah that's cool but DBZ is still better tho. OG Dragon Ball is 80% jokes, gags, and tournaments with basically zero stakes going on. If that fits your vibe better, cool, but it's just way less appealing for most people. Every fight in DBZ has stakes going on, everything is super dramatic, the dialogue goes hard and the one liners go absolutely insane. Everything is generally just bigger, flashier and more important. Dragon Ball feels like an appetizer for DBZ in that sense.
The best villain in OG Dragon Ball is Demon King Piccolo, who ain't even on the mount Rushmore of Dragon Ball villains imo. And no Vegeta or Gohan basically means that DB just doesn't have any interesting characters to speak of at all outside of Piccolo Jr. No disrespect to Tien, he was a fine antagonist, but if he was more interesting Toriyama would have probably used him more than once after that. "But what about Goku" Goku as a kid is a good gag character but that's about it.
Then there's all the weird shit OG Dragon Ball does constantly. Bro if your parents walked in on you watching OG Dragon Ball you'd change the channel. You don't want to have to explain any of that crap. What's with Japanese people and panties.
Basically, I'm saying that OG DB probably does just vibe with you better, but there's many good reasons that opinion ain't popular.
@@GeorgePerakis I disagree with almost everything you said.
@@GeorgePerakiszero stakes? You can't be serious. Who could predict that Roshi would step out from the ring? Furthermore with Tiens victory. And Kami disguised as some nerd on next tournament...
Agreed, I especially hate how the fighting in Z degenerates into endless pointless kicks and punches and the occasional energy beam attack, that is always the exact same.
You gave Major Metallitron, the terminator reference, a 101.
I see what you did there.
isn't 139 not even really Roshi's power level because it was scanned while he was relaxing so he isn't charged up?
Yes, Roshi could hang with Tien who had a PL of 180 (going by memory, I think it was around 180) by going semi-buff. You'd think his fully muscular form would be even higher.
@@Procrastinaterkinda... But Tien was like supercocky, he wasn't fighting serious until he used Taio- Ken. Roshi definitely could give Tien a run for his money, but would loose in the end anyway.
It's a pity he gave up that early and there was no rematch... It could be like Rocky vs Appolo
@@alexzero3736 Roshi always figured that he had been surpassed, if anything he undersold himself. Tien figured he had not begun to fight seriously yet, which is true, Roshi could still draw out a lot more power, and he did not use his lightning flash suprise attack, a move I do not see Tien having an answer to. Likewise, Tien did not use his four arm technique or kikoho against Roshi.
Roshi forfited the fight as he saw potential in Tien and pitied his situation being under the thumb of crane hermit.
Yeah. Some people used to think anyone above 139 was a moonbuster
Great video, as someone who's also dabbled into this stuff I can appreciate the effort that's put into this! I'm going to check out the Sparking Zero BP video after this and I hope you continue making content like this. I want to say, though, over the years I've NEVER seen anyone actually take the Movie 3 Pamphlet numbers seriously so please let me know who you've seen using them because I want to see what kind of person would do that.
About the Kid Goku being just a 10 thing; I know the out-of-universe explanation is that the staff just didn't think about it that much but in-universe I've always thought of the Scouter numbers to follow a kind of logarithmic function where the gap between, say, 5 and 10 would be exponential but the gap between 50,000 and 100,000 would be linear.
It makes sense for Frieza's army where even the weaker soldiers like Raditz have a battle power of 1,500 and can nuke entire continents in a single attack so instead of their energy level being 1.5 x 10^29 Joules it's just 1,500 with no unit. Then backtracking from that number, if it were linear, both someone like a regular human and a trained martial artist like Kid Goku would have a battle power of almost 0. So it could make sense why the numbers are 5 and 10 instead for readability's sake, both in-universe and out-of-universe.
You could even argue that the power levels get more linear at the end so that when Frieza pulls out his "My power level is 530,000" it appears that much more intimidating. Like the soldiers think that two guys with a PL of 5 have no chance against a guy with a PL of 10 and so Frieza with his massive 530k numba is absolutely unsurpassable but they'd be wrong because they CAN surpass him just by ranging a few parks with Android 17.
The power levels getting linear at the end also explains why Piccolo can jump from 3,500 in the Saiyan Arc to over 250,000 in the Namek arc in just a few days; it just appears like a big jump according to the power level system when in reality it's more or less his regular rate of growth.
ya I agree that the non linear interpretation works and is obviously the widely accepted interpretation, I thought it would be interesting to push back against that a bit here. also the specific example of movie 3 pamphlet, alot of bigger db creators who dont look that deep into power levels have used it, like masako x has used the ox king 900 level before, tho keep in mind he cares very little for power scaling and his videos prioritize narrative even if it dosent make sense power wise (also the sz video is kinda low effort, I didnt expect this one to do so well, I'll have to make more like this in the future.)
Power levels in Dragon Ball are logarithmic, otherwise they would make no sense at all, especially after the Saian saga, but it does not change the fact that within 70 episodes, the power inflation in Dragon Ball reached such a rate that the creator of this scale had to permanently stop using it.
otherwise we would have a Zimbabwe simulator instead of Dragon ball.
Finally someone else who realizes they have to be logarithmic to make sense at all
easily one of the most underrated youtubers, and you definitely have a future on yt. earned my subscribe, and ill be watching a lot of you dbz videos.
Got a hefty comment with some thoughts. I really enjoyed this video, it got my brain gears turning!
4:50 It’s worth considering how ki control works. Most people don’t know how to do it, so they’re just using physical muscles for punches and lifting. Someone with the same muscular strength, but with ki control added to that, would be able to exert greater force. I believe that’s part of what Goku was doing with lifting the car, how he was able to throw it and everything. For evidence, he managed to shoot a Kamehameha Wave on his first try. That shows he had some level of ki control already. This is likely also how Goku and friends can tank bullets, by strengthening their bodies with ki (which is something mentioned later in the franchise) even if only subconsciously.
6:16 Note that movement speed doesn’t always track linearly with strength. For a later example, Burter is significantly faster than Jeice, despite being around the same Power Level. The same applies to lifting strength, that not everybody with the same power level will have the same lifting strength. Some people are faster, others are more muscular. Even all-out ki blasts can differentiate in power between people with the same base Power Level, depending on the technique used. Really, the only constant is the Power Level itself, which can be sensed directly.
6:30 LOL I love that Launch joke. Anyway I do think she probably got stronger in her blond form, but I think it’s more that blue Launch is a ditz and doesn’t know how to use her strength properly. Compare it to Ginyu in Goku's body, maybe?
11:55 I personally think Arale’s Power Level is but to each their own. Another one I personally am confident on is Sourman, whose Power Level is "not sour enough" lol
16:10 Personally, I believe Roshi’s Max Power form (where he’s buff) is a x1.5 multiplier, similar to SSJ Grade 2. I think it’s a comparable transformation, since Roshi mentions it’s hard to move in Max Power mode. Also, regarding the power needed to blow up the Moon, I kinda doubt that you need to be as strong as 329 (Piccolo’s canon power with weights at the time) to do it since Piccolo just kinda did it on a whim, so I’m willing to believe Roshi could blow up the Moon with as little as 100-200.
18:15 I'd personally argue the Ultra Divine Water was the direct reason for the power boost, without any Zenkai involved. Zenkais are meant to be when there's damage caused by battle, not by poisons or illnesses. Also, note that Goku didn't mention getting a power boost until after he recovered from the drink, not when he healed after the fight with Old King Piccolo.
22:40 I think it's likely Yajirobe got a bit stronger from climbing Korin Tower with Goku on his back and hanging out where the air is thinner, plus he got a tiny taste of the Ultra Divine Water (maybe a Power Level increase of 1 or something). Also, I choose to believe he trained at least a bit on his own during those 3 years.
24:15 I believe Piccolo's weights bring him down by a percentage, not by a solid number. In the Raditz fight, his weights bring him down to around 78.9% (let's round and say it's 80%). 80% of 294 would be around 232. Additionally, it's worth mentioning that Piccolo was actually going easy on Krillin to avoid killing him, and he was caught off-guard with how crafty Krillin can be.
i think it's pretty to infer that Roshi at the beginning of Z is weaker than before because he has been slaking off in the years of peace
Funnily enough I already have my own numbers for this
I just. . made the list for myself, not to share
But it'll be fun comparing my numbers to yours
Edit: 3:11
Okay, first thing is. . I kind of threw this out too. . . I basically did power scaling of Dragon Ball itself first, and *then* fit it into DBZ power levels
It just felt like the way to go about it
Edit 2: Back to the previous point, this actually did bring up issues because if my numbers were correct (obviously they weren't) it would make Tien and Kami actually get *weaker* during the 5 year time skip
That's been fixed by now, but it was kind of funny when it happened
Edit 3: 5:21
How do we *really* know the Farmer with a Shotgun is an average farmer? Maybe he's actually really strong, but we wouldn't really know because the only person we ever see him fight is Raditz who was literally 300 times stronger than him
Calling it now, you channels blowing up
My king came to save us 😩🙏🏻
I know it's a "super saiyan style" (the style which Trunks, after training with Vegeta tries to use against Cell), but it could make sense that Master Roshi was actually using it in his fight against Uzaru Goku in the second tournament.... it kind of looks just like it, and he did zero dodging while using it, his whole intent was to beef up his power so that he could blow up the moon.
it would also mean that he's used that same technique a couple other times, including when he put out the fire mountain right before Goku learned the Kamehameha, and it would also give some meaning to that whole fake-out when it comes up in DBZ. Trunks had discovered a power that Roshi had learned years ago, and was misapplying it, in a proper martial arts fight against Cell, whereas Roshi was using it in its proper way - Destroying gigantic stationary objects.
just a thought I had while watching this video.
Yes, Roshi definitely used a power up to stop the flames.
Here’s my two cents on the manner of power levels:
1. A power level of 10 is meant to represent the power of a peak human Athlete in their prime, normal humans with no training or Ki control will rarely get passed 10.
2. The power levels shown are meant to represented as “resting” power levels that are risen with training and ki control, which then can be compressed and make their attacks more powerful than their resting power levels. (Which confuses me on why the hell the Ox King is so high when compared to Roshi.)
3. Power levels are gauged by three factors: Strength, Speed and Ki (Control, compression and power) and is rounded by average (so having a high strength and and a low ki can be the difference between another that has high ki and high strength), a balance in all three is recommended for the best results of power training.
4. Power levels generate a passive ki shield, which lets people tank attacks that a normal person would not survive and either negates or severely reduces the damage taken when being hit by someone weaker than themselves. The Deizenshu states that in order to start doing the maximum damage to someone stronger than you are, you need to be within 20% (resting power level or the compression of your ki attack must be within 20%) of the opponent’s higher power level (eg: you have a power level of 80 and your opponent have a power level of 100), only then will your attacks start hitting their mark (with resistance, but the gap closes as your power level does).
5:00 I know it probably wouldn't change anything, but couldn't we just use the weight of the irl cars for that? Bulma's cars in the manga and promo are a 1980 Renault 5 Turbo and a 1965 Triumph TR4A respectively. Even if they're shown with a superdeformed design I'd still say they weight the same.
Underrated youtuber, i love how you, eplain everything
thank you!
Love Dragon ball but i don't think Freeza should've gotten a power level in his first form. It was also a mistake to give him a level in the millions in his 2nd form. At least the numbers were ignored after Namek
it can be hard to balance your story and maintain narrative tension when everyone has an exact number, that being said, while hard, it can add alot to your story when done well, like alot of the power levels in db are only introduced to be subverted later, like goku and piccolo still winning while at a massive disadvantage.
@@yurazah i agree. Great video.
Being a ninja and thus presumably having martial arts training, Shu/Shao/Sho/Shoe whatever the localization calls the little fox guy this time around could easily be in the higher single digits and break nothing in terms of power scale. He'd be the muscle of the group.
Thought you were going to talk about the ninja from muscle tower at first lol
@@Grape_Rush_Goat That ninja's definitely a better one at the whole ninja gig and I expect his ki levels to be higher. The little fox ninja might only be a 6 like a common foot soldier, but I would prefer to highball him at a 9.
This is a good video. It's also edited great. Hope to see more from you.
thank u! I have some more stuff like this planned
One mistake i notice, you said the Time Skip was 5 years, but actually it is 3 years, they changed the number of years between each Tenkaichi Budokai;
what part was that? I might have been referring to the timeskip between og db and z, if not I might mention the mistake in the description
It’s funny. I’ve always found Goku supposedly being at a power level of 10 as weird.
Goku was trained by Gohan, the fourth strongest being on the planet for like 7 years, and you’re telling me he’s only 5 points stronger than a farmer with a shot gun? That implies that had Goku not got Gohan’s training ( again fourth strongest guy on the planet), he could have very well been at a power level of 5 or lower.
That’s what led me to believe that being a saiyan on its own doesn’t make you that much stronger than your average human. The thing that I head cannoned was that the main difference was your average adult Saiyan can manipulate ki, which they can use to manipulate their strength and durability
Awesome video idea bro👍i remember doing powerpoints as a kid of power levels for the whole series, it was fun.
Surprised this doesnt have way more views, great video!
👍 It’s genuine quality
Kid goku being 10 makes sense the reasons being if you are over like actual 2 times strong as someone you can easily kill them. (Vegeta vs Qui) We see kid goku get hurt by bullets so it isnt that far off to say 10. If it were actually 70 kid goku would geniunly solo the whole series with oozaru. Great video tho
Dude I think you're massively overestimating being double as strong as someone else, and massively underestimating bullets. Lots of real people are many times stronger than the average joe, but they're not cutting firewood with their hands, punching through brick walls or goddamn tanking bullets.
@@killarjnNo, No, Farmer WITH a Shotgun is 5, and Goku is 10.
Being 2x means you are essentially invulnerable to attacks of that level.
While it wasn't a complete negation of damage, he remained relatively unharmed, and the unexpected factor have to be taken into consideration as well.
Surprising, but not unprecedented. Goku states that yajirobe was the toughest that he's met to that point.
I love the concept you stated. Because it’s absolutely true. Power levels are most definitely linear. But not in ways that most fans are aware of.
Farmer - 5 Weak. Goku - 50 or 45. Exceptionally Strong. I’d put him at 45. Meaning Goku is degrees Stronger than ur average Earthling.
3 months of adventures with Bulma & Yamcha. Goku’s power level @ 45 stays the same. Goku is 11 years of age in the beginning of DB.
9 months of training with Krillin & Master Roshi, Goku jumps to 90. Krillin is either 72 or 75. Yamcha is 60. Both Goku (12) & Roshi aka Jackie Chun @ power level 90. Goku lost cuz he was shorter, his leg could not deliver the same power as Roshi, uh I mean Mr. Chun.
3 years later, Goku age 15 has a power level 180. Tienshinhan - 175. Yajirobè - 172. Master Roshi 139. Krillin 150. Yamcha 145. Chaotzu - 130.
This is the start of The Great Demon King Piccolo Arc. Goku’s power level jumps to 260. Old Demon King Piccolo - 210. Youth Demon King Piccolo - 250. Remember, Goku is still Stronger & Faster. This is why G.D.K.P. calls Goku a Monster. Goku is superior to him still. All throughout DB, Goku surpassed all of his opponents. That’s why in DBZ, Goku feelz fear in a way he neva experience fear in his childhood & teenage years. Goku defeats King Piccolo in epic fashion.
3 years later, Goku age 18, his power level is 360. Piccolo Jr is 350. Anotha epic battle. Goku wins, just barely, but he managed to get a victory.
I wanted to note, Goku @ 15 did get Stronger than General Tao. Long b4 he gets the Holy Divine Water to get a Power Boost.
The Low Power Levels in DBZ make it unfortunate for DB, bcuz it puts a limit on how strong these characters can get. Namely Goku. Goku should be must Stronger than minor increases he gains at select times. However, it must line up and connect with DBZ power levels at the very start. Really Great vid. I can’t wait for more. Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
I really enjoyed this I hope you do a remake of this version and then continue on each of the other series.
Because sadly you might have only did half of the actual research that you needed or at the minimum 25% of the research you needed but even with that I did enjoy this I can't wait to see what happens next if you do a remake of this one and then move on to the next series of dragon Ball.
Great video. I've thought about this before a lot tbh.
its starting to sink in how insane blowing up the moon actually is. we dont question it as much because it's so far away when they do it, but imagine master roshi literally blowing up an entire CONTINENT to dust, which the moon is comparable to, if not a degree more massive since its a continent length across and also deep.
I think the best proof that power levels are exponential is that characters manage to catch up to and exceed whatever level of power was previously strongest. Despite having relatively similar training with Kami, Goku was slightly stronger than Piccolo for the tournament, but Krillin, Tien and Yamcha, all characters with indisputably lower potential than Goku, all surpassed Raditz who was more than 3.5 times stronger than Goku at the start of Z (post- five-year time-skip). Zenkais are also incredibly inconsistent probably because power levels are exponential. After literally dying and coming back to life + training with King Kai for a year, Goku went from 416 to over 8 or 9000. After getting badly beat up in the Ginyu fight, he went from a base power level of 90,000 to 3,000,000. Literally going from weaker than Ginyu to arguably stronger than Freeza in his third form.
You realize most of your issues with power levels are entirely nullified if you just got rid of your assumption power levels are linear? Because they most certainly aren't. Never were. If anything there's infinitely more proof showing they're exponential
Proof: i can give more but I'll start out with this.
Farmer with a shotgun caps at 5. You consider him a normal person. Alright.
Roshi with a power level of 139 destroys the god damn moon.
Let's round that to 140 just for a more solid number.
By your logic that power levels are linear. Then master roshi is only 28 times stronger than the farmer. So either the farmer can destroy 1/28th of the moon with that shotgun. Or power levels are not linear and therefore are exponential.
More proof.
Vegeta in the namek saga. Has a power level of 24,000 only 2000 higher than zarbon. And yet with that super minor difference in power he absolutely no diffed first form zarbon and dodoria. Stuff like this is consistently shown.
Extra proof. Raditz claimed to be able to destroy earth. But even if you don't believe that Vegeta is shown casually destroying planets at a massive scale and while Severely weakened injured and exhausted could still destroy earth with a single blast.
It's stated in multiple places that 10000 power levels is more than enough to be a planet buster. By that logic the average planet buster in dragon ball has the equivalent power of 2000 farmers. You see how that makes no sense linearly?
Very well done video, but I feel like power levels was a big fuck-up Toriyama did in order to make Raditz more menacing. The manga itself states that your level changes depending on your clothing, your attitude or your techniques. So honestly the best way to go is to just assume that battles are dictated by moves and not levels
It took Goku 7 years training with Kami for him to barely defeat Piccolo Jr. at the end of Dragon Ball. It took the earthlings 1 year of training with Kami for them to catch up to Raditz, who had previously soloed both Goku and Piccolor Jr. at the same time.
moral of the story, set your goals high
Young Goku survives bullets to the face because he was a gag manga character at the time btw
Nice vid man i subbed
Piccolo getting powerful to lose life force is because there is life ki. Piccolo uses it against Dr Gero that's why he didn't gain much energy from him.
No way you put the average soldier above black. The guy punched Goku into a wall that he was stuck in for a few seconds. That's at least 10 or 9
Good to see Im not the only one that noticed the nonsense of that lol, Black is far stronger than a 6 or the average soldier for sure
Half the time I always get the sense that Dragon Ball powerscaling is just kids on the playground trying to justify spending money on a book about power levels
The numbers will spike even higher with the absurd performances and beatdowns later in Z.
The problem with Roshi's "canon power level" is that we know the way humans train, they can switch their powerlevels at will. So while base Roshi might be around 200, buffed up Kamehameha Roshi might be many times over that.
I think power levels are not linear but rather exponential. Also, when we examine human power level vs 1st goku power level we probably have to use fractions to determine the difference in power (similar to how we use centimeters but need kilometers for long distances). Its just that the power levels increased so drastically that even during the original Dragon Ball the audience could not see the fight because the contestants moved extremely fast.
2:54 tbf master roshi is just that guy, master roshi may be training behind everyone’s back while everyone thinks he’s just a funny and perverted old man, and usually doesnt show his true power (and muscles) unless he truly has to
11:10 Black tanked a few hits from Goku and kinda stood up to him. I'd argue 20 or 30 or so lol.
huh, I musta missed that
17:37 that does seem about right for Piccolo at that point, but being unaffected by the Kamehameha at that point probably isn’t a raw power feat. It was just established that Tien was outright immune to that move due to skill and not power, and that had to have been fresh on Toriyama’s mind. I
Quoting TFS Vegeta: "POWER LEVELS ARE BS!!!"
I only use actual feats that we see and never some third party guides bc those guides never know what they're talking about (like the GT Perfect Files saying Buu Saga Vegito *may* be stronger than SS4, which many people use to lowball GT's scaling without ever looking at any feats.)
also thank you for mentioning that Z Bardock is in the manga, therefore making Super not canon to the original series
This is actually pretty well reasoned, most people seem to make pretty wild claims for power levels, honestly I find that ignoring as many guides as possible helps everything make a lot more sense lol.
You also have to remember that Goku actually hit his head so most likely a lot of his potential or his full power was sealed away because of the injuries so him originally having a power level of 10 could make sense because of the actual brain injury making him 10 times weaker than he should have been if he didn't have the brain injury so he might have been a power level of 100 without the brain injury but with it it reduces it to 10.
You have to also remember that Ki is made of three parts. The energy of the mind, the energy of the body, and the energy of the spirit. It can also be positive or negative. The way your aura appears and feels to others is reflective of your actions and personalities.
According to Akira Toriyama, ki is made up of three components: Genki (元気; lit. "Energy"), Yūki (勇気; lit. "Courage") and Shōki (正気; lit. "Mind").
When one of these is affected your power drops by half so another words if all three is affected you can essentially divide that by eight.
When Goku hit his head he had a permanent head injury Cunningham power level automatically in half and then his mental state was that also affected cutting it again in half and then he was basically in a coma for a little bit physically weakening him again my probably half or more depending on how long he was in the coma. So all of this at least weakened him by 8 to 10 times.
Powerlevels does not make sense since they go from non linear (the increase is exponential) to linear, but the shift happens somewhere in the saiyan-namek arcs.
Powerlevels were created to display the disparity in power between Radditz and Goku/Piccolo. Radditz rocked a cool 1200 and Goku and Piccolo had 400. But in actuality, they could fight at levels at and around 700, with peak outputs approaching or exceeding 1000.
That is fine for early dbz going from dragon ball. Where a measly 20-30 powerlevel difference was enough to dominate an opponent, where goku at a pl of 10 could lift cars overhead while a normal human had a PL of 5 etc. You could explain Radditz not instantly killing Goku and Piccolo when he had hundreds of PL advantage as a combination of it being a 2v1 and Radditz not even trying. Remember, Mercenary Tao could throw a pillar across a continent at near hyperonic speeds, while with linear scaling "only" being twice as strong as 21'st tenkaichi bodukai goku who could only push a coupe hundred tons of rocks (maybe thousands, I can't be assed to calc the weight of the boulder he pushed when training with Roshi)
Where it all breaks down is when the powerlevel difference is in the multiple thousands, at that point, around when Vegeta and Nappa arrives characters are hit with the intent to kill by opponents with more than twice their powerlevel, and with differences in the thousands and they do not evaporate when hit. Powerlevels became ever more linear.
IT would be as if Yamcha from the 21'st tenkaichi budokai fought Tamborine and somehow managed to land blows or evade lethal attacks. When we see Tamborine instantly and effortlessly kill King Chappa, someone who would have easily defeated yamcha.
Now that powerlevels were linear if you had twice the powerlevel you were twice as strong, and this remained true from then on, instead the powerlevel system transitioned into a combination of relative power level difference and the actual number difference.
In the early saiyan saga, havbing a couple thousands of powerlevels more meant that you could dominate, which is why Vegeta could easily dispatch Cui and Dodoria even though he were only about 20-30% stronger than them. Later on and for the rest of the series it became a one needed to have twice the powerlevel to dominate an opponent, if you are within 20% you can struggle but still give a good fight etc. (Goku vs frieza, Gohan vs Cell etc)
TL;DR Powerlevels was made retroactively linear from non linear due to it's introduction at the start of Z and it's overinflated numbers meant to impress. Had Toriama kept the progression as seen in Dragon Ball, Vegeta would have had a PL of 2-3000 and final form Frieza would have had maybe 10-15000.
There is also the fact that you have consider the overall health of the characters. As Age and heath would as play factor.
Regarding the power difference of kuririn and goku:
The proportion of needed energy for the distance can be calculated as (V1/V2)^2. For 100 meters in 8.5 and 10.4s respectively, Goku expends roughly 50% more energy than Kuririn over the course of 100m.
Assuming both can "continuously" output the power to maintain these speeds one can calculate the momentary energy consumption (V1/V2)^3 which would make Goku roughly 83% stronger putting Kuririn at 57.
Tbf we would have to factor in some more information since Goku and Kuririn are not exactly identical in size and mass but I wouldn't put Kuririn under 40
uh... yeah... I totally did that math too... it just... didn't matter cause of what happens later in the video so I didn't bother including it...😁
:D
If always assumed it was like a square root or cube root thing. Or just a made-up thing, because bigger number looks better, especially to kids.
But chuck a square or cube root (or more) over any of those numbers, and power disparities seem more reasonable (but does make Farmer more likely to blow up moons when drunk)
"No one understands Dragon Ball Power Levels"
>Immediately starts using non-canon battle powers
lol, lmao even.
Asserting that battle powers must be linear and thus chapter 1 Goku could not have a battle power of 10, twice that of Farmer with a Shotgun is absurd when you forget that much powerful characters still have battle powers not that much higher numerically than Farmer with a Shotgun. Clearly this means that battle powers CANNOT be linear in scale.
i'll just say, there are no "cannon" battle powers for early db, toryama obviously didn't make the guide power levels so its really all up to our interpretation
@@yurazah Bro said "Cannon"
@@yurazahMaster Roshi’s canon power level is 139 and that mf literally blew up the moon, if power levels are linear then it would only take 28 shotgun farmers to blow up the moon
In the beginning you say "Well a car is probably 30% less than a car on our planet..." Earth literally IS our planet. You're just pulling stuff out of nowhere to fit numbers. Not a good start.
What he probably meant with that is, since DB's Earth tech is way more advanced, he assumed that car might be lighter...? IDK lol
Also the DB universe, Earth included, is VERY different in a ton of ways, including things as basic as continents, countries and much more. There's fucking dinosaurs, monsters, superhuman strenght, the whole ki blast and ki control stuff, etc.
Hell, they can put houses and cars inside a freaking little capsule that somehow supresses the weight of whatever is inside, who is to say they can't make cars lighter? It's an assumption for sure, but nothing crazy or unrealistic for DB standards at all.
And in case you wonder WHY they would make a car lighter, that's an easy one, because it would improve fuel efficiency and control
DB is not even close to realistic so idk why that's such a big deal for you, the reality is that there's no way to perfectly powerscale everything and everyone because Akira never really gave much of a F, so there's inconsistencies everywhere
Do it better if you can
Agreed
I think it’s dishonest to compare a movie pamphlet and the databook. Power level doesn’t just correlate pure strength it calculates many aspects I don’t agree with hypothetically 79.
to be fair, I basically disapproved of both, I had initially given goku a 91 at that part, (assuming the car was heavier) but as I kept going it didnt work, so I had to go back and lower goku so everything else would fit better
Power Level/Fight level or whatever is just meassuring raw KI, which is why a machine can read it, otherwise it makes no sense how a machine can read how "skilled" you are, so that's never taken into account
This was great, sadly the 139 is resting Roshi, who isn't in a powered state, like he does when he blasts off a Kamehameha. I don't know where that would put him, but I imagine he's gotta be around 200s then we have the power flux of the characters whenever they charged ki blasts or took off weights, Piccolo and Goku vs Raditz. Making Power levels even more inconsistent early on sadly.
We literally know that chichi has a power level of 300 in the dragon Ball Lord slug movie
I always thought the farmer was measured at 5 because he had a shotgun so the scouter accounted for the power increase due to the weapon. Just a thought.
What about powerscalers claiming Goku is FTL just because he was able to avoid the Taiyouken by grabbing Kame's sunglasses?
But Poppo is even able to manage the situation before two super Saiyans at the same time.
There is a difference between movement speed and reaction speed so I actually make sense with the foot race.
as vegeta would say,
"POWER LEVELS ARE BULLSHIT!"
looking at the comments and im just thinking that no body knows anything bro, i say we just keep thinking of ways to make these numbers work, no matter what puts a question mark over what
I'm from future
*I see you with 1m subscribers when u reach it show this comment* .
Power comparison in Dragon Ball killed forever:
Muten Roshi can blow up the moon basically instantly. Freeza requires five (very long) minutes to blow up Namek. Initial Vegeta instantly destroys bug planet. Cell needs to blow himself up to destroy Earth, and does so slowly.
Nuff said.
PLAYING SPARKING ZERO WHILE WATCHING THIS!!!!!
Sadly for Yamcha, Krillin was stronger or at least faster during the 22nd (?) tournament. During the pre eliminaries Yamcha said a contestant (Tien?) did 4 fast punches but Krilling corrected him and said he also did around 3 kicks (cant remember the actual numbers).
power levels cant be anywhere near linear unless you believe 150 farmers with 150 shotguns could blow up the moon
We literally know that King piccolo's power is 260 considering that kami himself mentioned it stating that he was stronger than King Piccolo by 40 higher power level and his power level was 300.
3:32 the beginning scene in the broly movie is base of of dragon ball minus which was written by toriyama because he didnt like the special and decided to retcon it
I wish power levels never got introduced. I assume it was a way to make the Saiyans overconfident for story reasons, as that's clearly made evident by all the "we can't trust these things" scenes. But they become so nonsensical so quickly. Going from hundreds into 10k+ in just one saga, and then after Frieza, it's like classic MMO out of control power creep but even worse. And then things like Seven Deadly Sins power levels happened later, which was like when a 5 year old hears the funniest joke in the world to them, can't stop telling it to everyone everywhere, and everyone is annoyed because its just a poop joke.
If power levels were actually linear, Vegeta would be FAR more than 4000 times stronger than a human... You would need to be millions, perhaps BILLIONS of times more powerful than a human in order to destroy a planet.
He literally fights a thousand freaking men in dragon Ball super in his buff form so you really I'm estimating everything in this video.
I always view a person wielding a weapon as using the "battle power" of the weapon. like each weapon sort of has a battlepower all its own. The 5 that the Farmer registered wasn't just the farmer himself, it was the battlepower of the farmer wielding a single shot shotgun. Basically pitiful compared to a "Saiyan Elite"
So Launch wouldn't necessarily increase her physical stats by a huge amount, but she's always heavily armed when in her altered state, So it uses the powerlevel of the Gun she uses, which is probably a 7-8? ish? something like that.
honestly I prefer to view Power Levels as something that the people in the series MISTAKENINGLY rely on. They rely on power levels because they think that they have mastered "power" to a point where they can quantify it, but no matter what, Goku proves that their power level scaling is just wrong because he's always able to transcend and reach new heights of power considered impossible before. Basically until Goku brought the concept of "Training" to the universe, the only way for a being to "transcend" their power level in any noticeable way was to change their entire form. The idea that a person could do push ups and improve their power level to the point that it matters at all is laughable to the Frieza society but it's true. They are weaker because they don't train. For the Frieza society the only way to improve your power is to have a secret hidden form, whose static power is stronger then your previous form.
Basically, I think Frieza is completely fundamentally wrong about power levels, and I think the story is much much better when read that way. They're a crutch that people that aren't Goku use as an excuse to not train. So long as they only ever pick on someone with a lower power level then them, then they never have to train and improve themselves, a thing they don't even THINK they can do, because their whole society is based on Power Levels and the Pecking order.
But....... then they decided to post tons of information about power levels, and so the READERS started basically falling into the same trap as Frieza.
and now you're basically doing the same thing and propagating the same mistaken ethos. But that's ok, you seem to have done a lot of good work so I'm quite enjoying the video.
Nope that's wrong. Scouter doesn't care about weapons. Raditz measured power of Kamehameha only in the moment of blast. Also Scouter noticed difference in speed after removal of weighted clothing.
I always imagine it as, special bardock is how frieza remembers him, and canon bardock is how he actually was, frieza probably heard some reports he probably doesnt remember the details exactly
I didnt really get the impression Nam was more powerful than Geeran. Like, I could see him losing to Geeran.
Power level reading was neat at start of DBZ and ended with Freezer, since Cell power level reading haved no sense.
Power levels were already nonsense before Dragon Ball. The concept was introduced many years before, in Kinnikuman - and abandoned within the space of one arc.
Also...i thing you forget that earthling warriors power up during combat or before they utilize a technique. So this numbers are the total amount of power they can achieve in any moment required, their base level before starting a fight or a media for this two scenarios?
I would say the power levels are non linear in the sense that power gain is exponential. If your power level is 100, its hard to get to 200. However if you are 1,000,000, it's not hard to get to 1,000,100.
Power levels from speculation mean nothing. But, if you want to get deeper into it.
They are exponential, going from 1-2 is a huge difference, so is going from 100-200.
A persons full power is locked behind something called Potential which can be unlocked through training. Saiyan Potential is tied to their Ozaru and their rage. Human potential is tied to calmness and discipline.
Roshi hides his power level, 139 is not his true power. He is suppressing it there. Roshi's powered up form is not a form it's actually just what he looks like at full Ki. So Buff Roshi is actually just normal Roshi. Roshi suppresses his power like Frieza confirmed.
Theres a lot of evidence that says training needs to be a mix of potential unlocks and Ki improvements. Things that unlock potential are meditative and relaxing discipline training. Things that unlock Ki are raw power, using Ki, controlling Ki, eating a lottttt of calories, exercise, and strength training.
Androids have no potential, they just have tanks that can absorb Energy. Raw energy, not Ki, or spiritual energy. Ki does have raw energy in it, so they can absorb and convert Ki into raw energy. But in general using modern tech androids can store near infinite energy, they just need to be given it. So, if you have the most efficient nuclear power generator ever, you could charge up androids for a few years and they'd be much stronger than the Super characters. They may need some upgrades, but capsule tech is nearly unlimited in terms of usage.
This concludes that in general, power levels are never at their maximum unless someone has their unlocked potential from a Namek or an Elder Kai. Ultimate Gohan was probably at his closest to having full potential. Despite what the dub might lead you to believe, Ki never goes DOWN. You never get weaker, but you can lose potential when your body atrophies. Power levels measure the current Ki in someone's body, a farmer, someone who regularly deals with the life energy inside of plants, would probably have a 5 Power Level due to exposure and unknowingly using Ki to give his plants life. It's like lil tiny spirit bomb training.
I'd argue that God Ki in general is a useless boring copout and that Super in general isn't worth analyzing. So I'm not gonna, lol.
Althouhh i like the editing and passion put into this video, powerlevels are not linear until you get to the thousands. Theres countless statements in the series stating goku got "several" or "many" times stronger after training with Korrin and Roshi. The power levels in the diazenshu are accurate howevevr the movie ones are not since the movies are stated to take place in alternate dimensions. The movie 6 pamplhet puts tamboruines above prime piccolo in power which would make no sense, however as stated by the director of the movies, the movies take place in a seperate dimension
Another great example of power levels being different in movies due to taking place in other dimensions is that Raditz official power level is 1200 while casual and 1500 when serious however movie 20 cards state him to be 1600 when serious. This doesn't invalidate power levels just means that either 1.Everyone is stronger in the movies or 2. Power levels simply work differently in these movies. Really enjoyed the video either way keep it up
think of this as a way to interpret power levels as consistently linear, as you said theres some statements that push back against the idea, but its just a fun idea
Damn thnegs the whole point of my comment.
But yeah with those dimension things it could be the possibility in alternate dimensions that some characters were born as mutants.
Or different which might be why Piccolo's kids were so strong and Goku had to get stronger or it's just making the power levels of the past compare to the more linear ones.
I see the movies as like a "What-if Toriyama wrote the Turles Saga." Instead. Which is sort of why it happens close to Frieza time hypothetically but they are still on earth maybe not as many humans died because Goku was just stronger and faster and the story changes around even more with it warping the whole reality.
Which is possibly why powers in those universes can flucuate so heavily and why Broly might be so cracked he can face a God Goku at full power but still fear Beerus.
The reality is that power levels don't make much sense and are a complete mess because Akira never cared too much about it and used to forget stuff like that all the time resulting in tons and tons of incosistencies and plot holes impossible to fix
So no point in wasting so much brain power about it
To make it even worse, the usual thing people use to compare the power level of anime characters with other anime characters, you know, stuff like "city level, moon level, planet level, solar system level, etc." is useless and doesn't make any sense either because planet/moon/star busting logic and physics vary wildly in between animes simply due to the authors not being astrophysicist and not having a clue about how though a planet/moon/star really is or how they work, how much damage they are supposed to get, etc.
The best example of this is DB's planet busting logic which is SUPER inaccurate, flawed and unrealistic. In DB, all you gotta do to make a planet or moon explode is damage their core significantly. Once you do, the planet either instantly or eventualy explodes depending on how much damage the core received. This is because planet/moon cores are treated as if they were the literal "heart" of a planet, like an energy or power reactor kind of thing, like a literal freaking super "nuclear" (see where the confusion might have come from) bomb of sorts, which is not at all the case IRL or in more realistic animes.
Where does this assumption of mine come from? Simple, see how they throw super powerful Ki blasts everywhere yet planet never explodes UNLESS that's their intent? Yet they throw a regular ki blast with no effort into the core of any celestian body and then boom, the planet/moon is gone like nothing?
How in the freaking world can 100-200 Ki Roshi and 400 Ki Piccolo destroy the freaking moon???? Even with 1000 Ki or 10k, I think that's quite absurd. People are not aware how massive the Moon is and the ridiculous energy it would take to destroy it, let alone explode it, that's the really ridiculous part, EXPLODING planet/moons into nothingness. The moon is basically just a really small planet or a really big dwarf planet. I think the moon issue tho is a combination of 2 things: Akira not being aware of how massive the moon so treating it kind of like nothing AND not undestanding how a planet/moon core works and the fact they are not a bomb or some kind of fragile delicate nuclear reactor that makes a planet explode in a million pieces if damaged, not even close at all.
Another thing that confirms my theory even further about the flawed core busting logic is the fact that they can control this and make planets/moons explode instantly or slowly, like what Frieza did with Namek. It took AGES for Namek to explode, suggesting it wasn't the Ki blast impacting the core that made it explode, but the DAMAGE that the Ki blast caused to the core that led to the planet eventually exploding due to it destabilizing or something of sorts, since everything deteriorated little by little before it exploded.
18 hundred thousand?? You mean 1.8million?
I did enjoy this video but you need to dig a lot deeper than what you did in order to get everything perfect you need to go into every single detail that could possibly go into including where a person was born and how separating into two would make a person weaker and everything in between.
6:35 ain’t no way lunch is the first super sayian we see in dragonball
bulma csr was weigh 1ton when he lifted it in their first encounter it was model after a small car in our world that weighed the same
Ah i love the og
Wish Roshi helped against Raditz.
Daizenshuu should be trusted and everyone’s Power Levels is correct. The powerscaling in Dragon Ball works in such a way that if the first is at least twice as strong as the second, this means that he is much times stronger than him in strength, speed and defense.
Frieza in his second form with a power level of 1,000,000 is capable of destroying the universe. In the Trunks arc, all the characters have 200 million and each is capable of defeating Frieza with one blow, in the Cell games arc, all the characters after training have above 500 billion, and I’m generally silent about the Buu saga, there is a redistribution of quadrillions.
Scale power level:
10: build level
100: moon level
1000: planet level
10k: star level
100k: galaxy level
1mln: universe level
10mln: multiverse level
100mln: hyperverse level
Results: Goku (Namek saga, Super Saiyan) with 150mln power levels is hyperversal
Eh
Saying "Eighteen hundred thousand" when you mean "18 thousand" at the start of a video about numbers and figures is pretty wild 😂
Consider that "1" power level could very well mean the power of one average person
It makes more sense to me this way than quantifying it as some sort of physical Stat, because I would place bulma and most normal characters around 1, but the farmer with a shot gun only being marginally more powerfull than an unarmed average warrior doesn't make much sense
That is to say if we're counting accessories and weapons into their power level, that's how bulma could be where she was at
yeah you got a future on yt bro. You're talented. Earned my sub.
tnk u☺
My theory is that power levels are exponential like someone with a power level of 5 is more than five times stronger than someone with a power level 1 that can explain why roshi was able to obliterate the moon with a PL of 160
enjoyable