a mistake I noticed while researching my next video: gohan after getting his rage boost against nappa is only at 2800, so I probably greatly overhyped the z fighters in that arc, but everything around them is fine, they should all be below that 2800. I still stand by saying nappa is close to goku though
You made a mistake as far as Kaio Ken goes. Kaio Ken doubles your power. Kaio Ken ×2 is the exact same thing. He only says "times two" that one time to set up the Kaio Ken x3 a moment later, but there's no other reason to think it was any different than the normal Kaio Ken multiplier, which is a double. Goku was just talking about the normal Kaio Ken when he said "times two" that one time.
Also, Vegeta was not higher than Frieza's first form. Before Frieza transformed, Vegeta was very winded and sweaty and Frieza was just standing there, irritated. Frieza transformed because he saw that Vegeta thought he still had a chance, and Frieza wanted total despair.
The mistake you mad was mixing up Gohan and Kullilin's power levels. The anime has Gohan at 781 and Kullilin at 1083. I'm going to check the Japanese manga but I'm willing to bet 981 is a mistranslation.
@@SBoundless How? It's a different context. They were mastering their martial arts abilities in DB, in DBZ they are beyond that and are reaching into deeper wells of power
@weegeguy9770 I think you hit the nail on the head, Toriyama was not a power scaler he did not think this way when writing the story, so applying these kinds of logic will always run into a bunch of pitfalls. Take Goten and Trunks, should we put more emphasis on how well Trunks handles increased gravity training with Vegeta, or how well the 2 of them perform fighting Android 18 a character much stronger than Frieza, in the tournament. Characters strengths shift depending on what the narrative requires, while they are always getting stronger it is very difficult to know by how much, and you really can't just apply math to situations as though Toriyama was sitting there with a book on engineering and physics to know how much force each feat required.
@@derekerickson4144 I am not sure but the entire Saga up to Frieza's end at Namek was such a consistent story, i dare throw in the theory that he may not even have intended to continue from there, maybe he'd have not even brought in the scouters or "power levels" as we know it if he knew how much things would escalate.
@DontKnow-hr5my that makes no sense. Not only did he say he wanted to continue after Freeza. He said he wanted to push Gohan into the main role. Which you can kinda see in the Cell Saga. Freeza was never supposed to be the end of Dragon Ball. Cell wasn't either. The Buu saga kinda went off rails. To be fair the whole manga was written very quickly. He was slamming out arc after arc. 9 years from Goku being a child to the end of the Buu saga. Bleach and Naruto went 15 years for less story being told. The man was a writing beast and you can tell with Super he still loved the story and wanted to do more with it
he even came up with his own (nonsensical) understanding of how the potara multiplier works even though theres a well known official way it works (fighter 1 * fighter 2 and then a potential rivalry boost)
@@velryxia I personally stopped at 50% Mecha-Frieza being stronger than 100% Namek-Frieza XD But out of curiosity, did he acknowledged SS3 Gotenks (post rosat) was a couple hundred times stronger than SS3 Goku?
@@marinomele4575 He said ssj3 gotenks was stronger than base super buu but refuses to let go of his "fighter a + fighter b * some random number" and says goten and trunks are both below 200,000 in the buu saga. and yes, he genuinely think they are weaker than first form frieza in namek by at least 3 times
He also regretted them, recognizing that it just turned into a game of "who has the bigger number". And to his credit while not the best author of all time he did dial back the constant references to power level the further you got away from the Freiza and Cell sagas.
@@Goldenkitten1 To be fair, Dragon Ball has ALWAYS been about the biggest number. Roshi never taught Goku and Kuririn any martial arts. He only trained their bodies. Goku only defeated Tao Pai Pai by training his bodyand getting "stronger". The number may not be said, but it's there.
@@exterminans He sorta did before it, as the only characters to be genuinely surprised are the ones who never faced off against the Earthlings trained by Namekians before, who actually learn energy control
Nappa: "What?!!!! Over 8,000?!!!!!" Nappa(uses his scouter): "8,001?!!!!! Ummmm......Vegeta, isn't 1 power level over 8,000 pretty much the same as 8,000? How you said it so over dramatically, I thought that he would at least be a lot closer to 9,000."
I have to disagree - if there is ANY character that knows how to control his power level it is Roshi - like literally the first time we see Roshi do anything he goes super saiyan Grade II (I will forever keep making fun of Grade II and III - they just buffed up, anyone with ki control can do this). Roshi is a master martial artists that has trained his Ki for hundreds of years and he invented ki based techniques. Learning to control your power level is a skill you have to learn - yes. But Roshi absolutely has it. Vegeta doesn't have it until later - but it's a fairly common skill among human martial artists. Like Vegeta himself says he picked it up from the earthlings, and the fight vs Radditz is what let him know that they can hide their power levels so there is no use relying on the scouter. In this scene Roshi is displaying his standing power level, but Krillin is flexing for the rating EDIT : Also I do have a bit of a head canon for the great Ape Vegeta - I think that he wasn't actually 180,000 on earth. Like this WOULD be how strong Oozaru Vegeta is if he transformed naturally, but he specifically says that the artificial moon comes at a great cost, so I think it would make sense to assume that Oozaru Vegeta on earth is still stronger, but not AS strong as 180, since at 180 he frankly should be untouchable, especially since he hasn't learned to control his ki yet. It is interesting to think though that Oozaru Vegeta under perfect circumstances was actually stronger than Ginyu
Kid Goku suppresses his ki in #129 against Tien lol. It would be a very big leap to think Roshi of all people doesn't know it, since he's so talented, knowledgeable, old, and Goku's master.
Roshi figured out how to increase his muscle mass to allow for more ki flow. That's not the same as concentrating your ki to a higher level like the namekians and those trained by namekians. Ginyu specifically stated that was a rare ability that he had.
@@Nathaniel-w5n Yes - it is a rare ability. In the Freeza force, which has recruits from all over the universe, Freeza and Ginyu are like 2 people that are known for the ability to control their power level. Heck Freeza can't even sense power levels, despite Goku just getting this ability after getting strong enough. But even though it is a rare ability on the universal scale - all of the earthling fighters have it, if they got it after years of martial arts, surely Roshi managed to find time to learn it in the hundreds of years he trained
I wouldn't say it's a fairly common skill among human martial artists. A majority of them do not have Ki control, which is why the general population always freaks out when they witness this kind of stuff. Even a majority of the fighters during tournaments do not have Ki control, generally only the top fighters do and even then some of them do not. Ox King was a student of Roshi's and he hasn't ever shown that kind of ability. Vegeta is an Alien from another planet, making the comparison doesn't work.
@@Grape_Rush_Goat hes a much smaller target, so I dont know if hes actually stronger beyond just being hard to hit, but hes also filler so I didnt include it
It's really weird how official material say that Nappa is 4000, but then he's able to pressure Goku into guarding with Kamehameha. It also just doesn't make sense for Piccolo to be 3500 or so, but barely able to harm Nappa while Nappa is 4000 but potentially able to damage a Goku that's 8000+.
Nappa was no less than 6500-7000 at peak. No reason for Goku to have a slight edge toward the end of their fight and stating it might take forever to beat him
He told Freeza to come at him at full power, even did so multiple times in the anime. If Trunks was truly about no BS he would have sliced Freeza and Cold immediately.
@@jollygoodfellow3957 He literally did in like 5 seconds, the whole half episode fight is filler, the real fight goes like that: trunks sends a ki blast, frieza goes up, trunks slices him with his sword and fries him, LITERALLY
yes, and it's actually confirmed by Gohan mecha Frieza was not at full power. Frieza was never shown or stated to have powered up, so imo he had to be suppressed still. Maybe at half power like he was on namek.
@@weeaboo-warrior I also think it's half power at most. On Namek, he shows the ability to quickly jump up in percentages. Seems to become stronger when using no hands against Goku and then the jump from 50-70%, but it's never more than a 20% increase. The mecha form is supposed to make him stronger than ever, so maybe he can make bigger jumps than before, but I find it hard to believe he was at 100% with a single ki blast.
Yeah, the biggest gripe about power levels is how much it falls apart when you actually start thinking about it. Like how Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga was at 18,000 after decades of harsh fighting in space, and yet right after Earth started getting one massive power boost after another, essentially gaining a higher power level in a few months compares to the decades before. Or how the heck the Androids that Dr. Gero created were so powerful given that he stopped gathering data after the Saiyan Saga, when the power levels were at a max of just over 20,000.
Vegeta wasnt fighting near death before goku, simple as that, if cui was his rival they certainly never fought to the death. Bardock was getting stronger because zenkias only work if you fight to your upper most limit. That was the point of Goku, he fought from the weaket and kept getting stronger
@@robertwilson7259 Yeah but then you just do a few hundred reps of basic exercises under intense gravity and your power goes up by a factor of 10. 😂 The whole system is nonsense, lacks internal consistency and relies on exposition to tell you that characters are stronger even though the bar for power was set with blowing up planets very early on. DBZ imo is best appreciated if you ignore all of the poorly explained and nonsensical mechanics of ki/power levels and just focus on the plot/action.
@@JeszeEnbee Isn't the implication that Vegeta never trained? With the class system of Saiyans they seem to stick to the power level they were born with which implies either a lack or only enough training to maintain their power. Vegeta only ever took to improving himself after his encounter on earth and everything he learnt there.
Because before this Vegeta didn’t get quick sensu beans and dende’s instant healing that would give him the zenkai MID BATTLE unlike the healing chambers that took hours to heal AFTER battles
Saiyans would literally show up to planets in line with full moons being available to claim them quicker for Frieza. They get reprimanded for taking long amounts of time, so there was no incentive to zenkai. Frieza was probably somewhat aware of this too and ensured his monkeys were instagibbing planetary forces instead of grinding for real and improving their base powers.
Power levels are not hard, but Toriyama did the right thing, by droping that concept half way thru Freeza fight. Those numbers were just getting to ridiculous. And then the fandom came, and decided that nah, we need numbers on everything! Sigh...
@@Gridlock3 very bad idea to even introduce them at all, frankly. He could have used the ki sensing techniques to do practically the same thing he wanted with power levels without writing himself into a corner. And then intern-cooked guides that he himself "checked" but didn't even have quality enough not to directly contradict the manga started getting printed out left and right and now we have the fandom we have. It's no wonder they're BASICALLY abstent for every self-respecting shonen after that.
@@gustavolopes5094 seriously, the power levels were so needlessly redundant! the very nature of the story and even everyone's place in the galactic "heirarchy" already made it clear where people stood in "power scaling". frieza was a galactic emperor second to his father in their empire. he also had a number of elite warriors and the generic minions under him. then, you have the fact saiyans were subservient to him and even their own prince Vegeta had been about on par with one of the weaker Elites (Cui) by about the time he first came to earth. then you have the androids being built to counter goku and even drain his energy (huge weakpoint for the heroes). plus, cell in particular had been built from the DNA and abilities of many of the galaxy's greatest warriors gero could get samples from, including frieza and cold. plus, he had the potential to get stronger from absorbing others (including his android "siblings") and lived up to "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" like his saiyan doners did. all of these LITTLE details gave you a good sense of power scaling. and that's not even considering the elements present in Super like Gods of Destruction, Zeno, and the fusion that is Goku Black.
@@KristopherPrime Yep. It's very counterproductive. Plus, there was no need to make Nappa and Vegeta SO FAR above Raditz and the gaps between each subsequent villain also so large. With the gap between Power Levels being that big he basically said "there's no way anyone can surpass them" at the same time everyone easily surpassed them.
Part of me wants them to say that piccolo got so much stronger simply because he was drinking King kais water, which had more nutrients and blah blah blah, and it made his body stronger. I think that be a funny way of how he got stronger on his planet in 10 days.
There’s no reason to think he’s at 50,000 the video is wrong, piccolo just had to be stronger than the average namekian to get that compliment and their elites were at 3,000 Nail was just a special case cause he protected the grand elder
@@Criteon Problem with that is we know namekian fusion isn't as potent as becoming a SSJ and I don't think Nail would say you're incredible but you still can't beat him if Piccolo wasn't even stronger than him
@@KurokamiNajimi that’s not even true, the manga never mentions the potency of namekian fusion and especially never compares it to ssj so you’re just making stuff up Additionally nail is left for dead his power is basically 0 dude can’t even stand up, namekian fusion has nothing to do with multiplying their own powers that for certain
@ I might be wrong look it up I could have sworn there was a quote from the elder saying something like only a SSJ could be stronger than a super namekian or whatever they call it
and the numbers are always orders of magnitude lower than they should be, because it's all vibes based. we KNOW how strong the characters are, so can get realistic answers with physics and basic multiplication/division. for example: using el manga legendario + super exciting guide + vs. battle wiki's attack potency page, base vegetto should have a lowball'd power level in the hundreds of septillions, not a measly large star level 3 trillion.
@@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap Based on my calculations, star level is about 8 billion. I base this on full power Master Roshi having a 300 when he blew up the moon. Earth has about 80 times the mass of the moon, so 300x80=24000, Vegeta was higher than that when he said he could blow up the Earth, so that is consistent. The sun has about 333 000 times the mass of the Earth, so 24000x333000=7 992 000 000, or 8 billion. This would be consistent with Cell's claim that he could blow away the solar system, if he meant that he could destroy the sun
The ability to concentrate and raise or lower your ki was an extremely rare ability. Captain ginyu makes this very clear when Jeice doesnt understand whats going on and says he is one of the rare few in the universe who can do it. The earthlings were taught the ability by kami because the namekians figured it out. This was shown on namek when their power levels jumped. They didnt know how to supress their power levels though. Otherwise guru and nail could have easily hidden from the scouters. Roshi figured out how to increase his muscle mass, which increased his ki flow. Similar to grade 2 and 3 of SSJ. He had basic ki control, but couldnt concentrate it in the same way. Same for 100% frieza.
The only thing one must understand about power levels is that they're worthless and only exist to create artificial hype. Everything else is secondary.
I mean considering the point of introducing power levels was to establish that no one understands power levels, I think this might be the most fitting video title of all time.
power levels are cool until you start to think about them. Pretty much breaks once vegeta kill Cui in one hit on Namek. Also the whole Zenkai boost thing is the laziest crap.
Power levels were introduced solely to have the villains be shocked when they underestimated the heroes. Sadly it was something the fans latched onto and Toei obliged.
zenkai boost (i'm presuming you mean saiyan boost) isn't a bad thing if you ask me. hell, this saiyan biology quality makes sense all the way back in OG dragon ball. what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, quite literally in the case of saiyans. every blow and near death experience goku has had only made him more powerful, even if slow and steady over the course of the OG series. and it lends well to part of why goku is special, as he and his race had the potential to become gods. heck, it even improves the story with the tragedy of the saiyans' fate falling to their own pride and ambitions. they could have become a race of gods, but others like Beerus and frieza ultimately feared or despised their potential, leading to near-extinction save for a few survivors.
Akira Toriyama actually gave an interview that sheds a bit of light on why Vegeta killed some characters who weren't that far off from his battle power. He explains that there are three aspects to Ki. One is raw energy, the other has to do with courage, and the final has to do with right-mindedness. Characters like Cui and Dodoria are already fighting at a disadvantage against Vegeta because they've been demoralized by his 24,000 reading being above theirs. They also both flee like cowards, so in a way, all they have is raw energy against Vegeta. It's like they're only fighting with a third of their power. Meanwhile, Zarbon puts up a much better fight than Dodoria in his pretty boy form, even though he and Dodoria are supposed to be around the same battle power. It's more like Vegeta is slowly picking him apart, and that's because Zarbon keeps a cool head (Knowing he's got his monster transformation as a trump card). Some of the fights make a lot more sense when you contextualize them with the three aspects of ki mentioned in that interview: Shoki, Genki, and Yuki.
The whole point of power levels was just a thematic story telling device for the Saiyan arc. They showed that Saiyans determined each other's worth based on the power level they were born with, which is exactly what Vegeta told Goku during their fight. The problem is that fans just took the power levels more seriously than they were meant for.
29:03 "Everyone gets to live happily ever after for four years." Well, look at that timing! Daima's power levels would interesting to see considering we're still trying to figure out how much they got nerfed by being turned into kids.
You'll have to be careful about that. Z devolved into relatively linear power scaling because Toriyama was exhausted and out of ideas. He actually added a Z to the title to indicate the final chapters despite that it lasted longer than the "original" series. As for Daima, it looks like it's all setting up for a REALLY wonky overhaul (in a very, very good way) that pulls from GT and the original Dragon Ball and reverts back to the emphasis of character technique and mentality instead of the linear power scaling shtick. That should ultimately mean characters such as Gokuu and Piccolo retain their higher technical skills and efficiency while Vegeta will probably end up being the least affected by all the nerfs, but yeah, still not a very efficient fighter. Still, a LOT of people are going to hate Daima for more than its design choices, but I think getting wrapped up in BPR will be just as much of a mistake as it would be with the "original" series. Our main antagonist right now is basically Pilaf 3.0 with advantages outside of BPR. Daima is not going to feel anything like Z.
@ShonowtH Did Toriyama even come up with Z? That only applies to the anime, which he didn't work on, and the English localized Dragon Ball. Otherwise, Toriyama's entire manga was only known as Dragon Ball to the end of the Buu saga.
@@TayoEXE His work itself went uninterrupted, but I did read somewhere that he wanted the Z added to help wrap it up. Thought it was in that Derek Padula encyclopedia of sorts. I have no source, so I won't double down. Either way, case in point, he was tired of Dragon Ball for a very long time, and when you're tired of something, the creativity doesn't flow very well. It's how the Majin Buu arc wound up so full of holes and slipped back toward his trademark comedy writing; he was never an action author nor anywhere near as enthused about the power scaling as viewers usually are. Plus, if his unspecified "it's how I feel about my life" comment about Sand Land is any indicator, it wasn't just exhaustion for 'im. I do very much enjoy the Majin Buu arc, personally. It's not my favorite of the four arcs, but with no energy or inspiration, yeah, he let his sillier senses bleed into it, and it makes for a good balance between action and his unique brand of silliness. It's part of why Majin Buu was so difficult to handle even aside from power scaling; his mindsets and behaviors are wildly unpredictable. Definitely one of his better antagonists. I love that Mr. Satan came back as the reincarnation of Suppaman in that arc as well. Explains why he went from enormous to puny.
I always assumed the super zenkais come from experiencing multiple near deaths in a short time span, trying to boost the body to its max in order to not lose again. Goku and Vegeta experienced many zenkais in the namek arc in rapid succession, Goku going through intense multiple near death training on the ship, and Vegeta just getting humbled over and over again.
Small correction- Nappa's exact words in the manga when talking about the power of the Saibaimen are "On par with Raditz." On par doesn't necessarily means equal to, as I put Raditz in 1,500 like many others. On par can be a minor difference of 300. I see people saying Bejita's GA form when fighting Kakarrot is 180,000. However that is just wrong, considering by the time he transformed he got injured pretty badly. He also stated that creating the fake moon will cost him some of his power, so I think by the time he transformed he was at 7,000 making him 70,000. By the time of the transformation I put Gohan at 1,000 making him 10,000.
Yeah, the Saibaimen are just somewhat relative. Raditz is also obviously smarter and has real moves and such, equalising them too much is disingenuous. I'd put both vaguely within a range of 1200-1500, but Raditz always wins a fight against a Saibaiman.
Small correction 😉 Nappas exact words were 強さだけのことならラディッツに同じぐらいがある。 Tsuyosa dake no koto nara Raditsu ni onagi gurai ga aru If strength is the only consideration then they equal Raditsu The implication is that Raditsu would defeat them through competency
@@Thromaz Interesting. I don't know Japanese good enough. Thank you for that. I meant the English translation of the manga but here I learned something new. So he doesn't say a number at all in the original Japanese, making it possible for Raditsu to be 1,500.
I feel obligated to disagree about suppressing power levels. Maily because it's literally just suppressing ki... Which Goku does against Tien in OG Dragon Ball, chap 129. No reason at all to imagine Roshi of all people wouldn't be able to do the same.
@@yurazah that was clearly not what was happening. Tien even tells him "I can tell you are going all out". In that fight, Tien still couldn't sense ki, and he also was relying on his enhanced vision. That was a clear textual cue that Goku wasn't holding back physically. He then replies "yeah at my tournament level power" which is almost the exact wording used to describe suppressing and raising Ki later.
@@gustavolopes5094the clue that goku was holding back was him saying so. Goku didn't have ki control of that level until after his training with Kami(and probably king kai).
On the surface it seems nuts that billions of power levels are just thrown around in this video, but one thing that really supports it is the Japanese title of The Return of Cooler. "Clash!! 10 Billion Power Warriors".
"Goku reaches 18 hundred thousand after activating his kaioken" Just say the actual numbers man, it's 180,000. 18 hundred thousand would be 1.8 million anyways
I loved your assessment of Nappa's power. I always thought it was kinda strange that Goku's power level was ~8000-9000 and he didn't immediately dispatch Nappa with a power level of ~4000-5000. With almost double the power, you'd think Goku would crush him. They seemed kinda in the same ballpark of power until Goku used Kaio-Ken.
I hate that people never consider anything outside of BPR. Gokuu samples the shit out of everything and learns what's going on before really honing his approach, not unlike some classic, ape-based martial arts styles. Reasonably, Nappa should sit around 10-12k and Gokuu would probably not have all that much trouble at 8k. Nappa'd had plenty of battle experience, but that experience has been "I'm just stronger by default, so I don't really need to pay much attention," just like Vegeta at that time.
Thats because they were, nappa showed 2 different power levels, and it is apparent in their fight. it was never stated if he powered up, got stronger, or if he was psychologically suppressed. But Vegeta made it clear that if he calmed down hed be on par with goku. so there was definitely some un explored elements of powering up in the Saiyan saga. No matter how you explain it. Nappa after concentrating was stronger than the nappa the z fighters fought
3:39 Master Roshi’s Power Level is 139 in his Regular form. However when he transitions or transforms into his Buff Form, it increases his power level by 2x. Remember, The Power Level Requirement is 300 to destroy the moon. And 10,000 to destroy Earth. 139 x 2 = 278. You gotta also remember The Kamehameha Wave at Max is a 2x Multiplier too. 278 x 2 = 556. Moon Busting Attack.
If 300 is required for the moon, then 24 600 is required for the Earth, as the Earth is 82 times the mass of the moon. And following that logic, you would need 8.1 billion to destroy the sun
@@Jim-pq9pm power levels especially early on are not linear so someone with a power level of 5 vs someone who has 10 would be not twice as much stronger, but even more so then 2x, so being a moon buster at a pl of 500 doesnt mean that you would only be able to destroy another one with a thausand, it would increase drasticly
Bro in the cell saga picolo literally said if you are not stronger than frezia and King cold do not show up for the Androids that the reason why Chiaotzu did not show up
That was piccolo's recommendation. the others came regardlesss. goku in base STILL hasn't surpassed frieza btw. and we know base goku curbstomps every other human.
piccolo just said the androids were very strong, and he doesn't want anyone who will drag them down. so you're already misinformed. not to mention, why did all the humans show up for the cell games when they can't do anything? even vegeta and trunks basically couldn't do anything to cell or the juniors but they showed up. finally, 19 and 20 weren't even frieza level. goku was already beating 19 with a fraction of his strength, and then a powered up 20 still got clowned on by piccolo, who I seriously doubt is stronger than frieza.
25:25 SS2 Goku needs to be a bit over 80,000,000,000 to make sense with in the story as SS2 Goku and SS2 manjin Vegeta are stronger than the SS2 Gohon with the rage boost durning the cell games
I absolutely hate how the power scaling goes haywire in Namek. I think the root of the problem was making Freeza's first form be at 530,000. He should've been at 150,000 and all the other powers then should've been changed to accommodate that. No one else besides Freeza should be even close to 100,000 until Vegeta gets his boost after the Ginyu fight.
@@antonbrown17 I don't think so, because Vegeta already threatens to destroy the Earth in his fight against Goku, who is aware of how powerful Vegeta is and takes this threat VERY seriously. If a guy with a power level of 18,000 can blow up a planet, then Freeza could've had 150,000 and it would still be believable that he could blow up a planet with a finger.
What do you think Roshi fighting Goku in the 21st Tenkaichi was if not ki suppression? When he blows up the moon, he has to go all-out physically and do a max-power Kamehameha. Goku and Piccolo's power level increased dramatically when performing their ki attacks against Raditz, and that's not a matter of oh they were just suppressing it. No, his punches were not as strong as his ki blast. None of Goku's punches had anywhere near the effect of that blast. You have indeed demonstrated no one understands power levels.
I think you are wrong with Great Ape Vegeta's power level, If I remember correctly he stated that the artifical moon he used to transfrom is not as effective as a real moon
@@MegaMrAlexisthat makes me question - If Goku's dad wasn't a great warrior, how did he have enough energy to develop the fake moon technique that earned his reputation as a brilliant scientist?
You guys should stop using using the anime's dub to source your infos. Not only did it change a lot of stuff for no reason, but they also made some shit up. Just look at the comment above mine.
@@creativename2567 what do you mean? Goku's dad was clearly a scientist. Just look at the immense IQ Goku displays. Someone like him would be very capable of noticing things like jokes, which is a rare skill nowadays. Just look at the comment above mine.
13:28 - Frieza noted that he barely survived the Large Spirit Bomb and he did lose part of his tail as a result not to mention the damage to his head which caused him to have trouble opening his eye!
They were just part of the story from the Saiyan Saga - Freeza Saga since the Saiyans were part of Freezers henchmen they were given them too but shortly after the story on Namek they lost any meaning so I dont think they should be taken toos seriously. Greetings from Mars.
That Kaio-Ken segment reminds me... Why The F*ck any of other Z-Fighters never learned Kaio-Ken???? I swear this technique was perfect for the side-characters to be relevant again and momentarily surpass main-characters while never also undermining importance of the main-characters for Toriyama's leisure.
Everyone and their dog, and even the turtle could have learnt kaio ken from King Kai 😂😂😂 Just like everyone could have learnt instant transmission like most have learnt Kamehameha. Oh well, plot devices 😂😂😂
0:57 “I don’t take the guidebook power levels too seriously.” Very well said. I am glad u said it, cuz maaan. Too many fans accept whatever the guidebook says. The reason why that is wrong. As u pointed out. When the Guidebook puts out a Power Level Stat that completely contradicts the events that took place in the Manga & Anime. That power level stat in the guidebook is 100% wrong, a complete contradiction. Outwardly & Openly. Therefore it cannot & should not be utilized at all. Only Power Level stats that reflect what took place in the Manga & anime are correct and true. As for the DB & DBZ non canon movies. It is perfectly fine to accept whatever p.l. that guidebook places, wrong or not. Bcuz those movies are not canon.
Vegeta was not above 1st form Frieza. After their grappling match Vegeta was sweating while Frieza was calm. He was under 500,000. Frieza only transformed because Vegeta asked him to.
Yeah but what makes it strange is, why did Frieza's scouter break? Ginyu gave Frieza a newer model scouter, and his was more than capable of going over 180,000 because it clocked Goku's. So we can at least safely assume to know Vegeta was at least higher than 180,000, because it's a stretch to think Ginyu would give Frieza a worse scouter model than his. But the next question is.. what scouter did Frieza use to know FOR SURE he's at 530,000? is there a NEWER newer model scouter that nobody has anymore? lol
@@weeaboo-warrior yea I agree that if he's anything, he's maybe 500,000 max. He spoke more so as if Gohan and himself together have a chance against Frieza, rather than saying he can take him on his own which is more up his alley. If he was higher than 530,000, I'd like to think the text would reflect that. But again it's just strange that if there's a scouter that goes 530,000+, why would the Ginyus not have them/be able to grant Frieza one when they came straight from Planet Frieza.
the main thing people don't understand about power levels is that they were never supposed to be taken seriously. that's why since the beginning the scouter readings where innaccurate. it was basically a short-hand to show the enemies hubris, their overreliance on technology and overconfidence in their natural abilities. the fact that decades later the fandom is still harping on this point is almost sad, like a bunch of kids repeating a joke they don't understand.
@@meucanal-x8k nah Tori kinda flip flopped between opinions to be fair. He also thought it was useful to convey how strong a new enemy was. Then he realized that it would almost entirely remove tension so he just made them completely unreliable to the point where doubling your PL was easier than gaining a pound at the end of the year. Still, to this day, not a single battle was won 1v1 by a confirmed lower power level opponent. And even the ones that were won and not 1v1 involved some funky "this ups my power level shenanigans" lol. Like Piccolo Makankosappo upping his to over Raditz's Then after the Frieza Saga, he dropped them entirely........ Only to then bring them back, again, to show how strong a villain was, again, and noticed it robbed the story of tension, again...
what a mindnumbingly braindead statement when the series time and time again proved the accuracy of power levels, nappa vs z fighters, vegeta vs goku, vegeta vs cui, dodoria, zarbon, goku vs ginyu force. Power levels had nothing to do with overconfidence or natural abilities, it was just a tool to communicate power differences because the author was too lazy to keep showing it through feats, and eventually he got lazy with power levels too.
@@drtony1000 if you want you can read the citation above and continue being an abbrasive unpleasant individual. but what i meant by overconfidence in natural abilities was that none of ETs except Namekians&Sayans ever train/are martial artists. So to them power levels are a generally static number, something innate that establishes pecking order But THEN you have martial artists to whom the whole deal is training, developing techniches and applying extra- effort when needed. To them power levels mean jacksh*t. That's why all the examples you gave where PLs meant something are of battles where the bad guys start with 'pffft, screw that small puny guy' and end with 'OMG, is power level soooo biiiiiig!' Because it was a shorthand for enemies, never meant to be applied to the main characters. But Toriyama could've never predicted the goblins the fandom would generate.
@@drtony1000 «My number-one goal in coming up with [the scouter] was because, if an opponent’s strength could be seen as a number, it would be very easy for the readers to understand when I put it in the comic. However, I could foresee that it’d be an inconvenience for me down the line, because if you knew a concrete number, then you could tell who would win or lose, so with regards to Goku & co., I decided that [their power] would change due to “Ki” and couldn’t be adequately measured. In addition, it’s a very convenient item to create peril, since with enemies equipped with them, their location could become known, and they could be reported.» Akira Toriyama 04/04/2014
3:51 I’d say Piccolo @ 329 does not mean Piccolo got Stronger. He was simply wearing a lighter form of his weighted clothes. This is most likely due to him simply manifesting lighter Armor/ Weighted clothes for reasons only he knows of.
small correction about 18 at 16:00 its been stated multiple times that vegeta and 18 were equal in power level, but the androids having infinite stamina is what ultimately won her the fight
@@stanleydude3340 in the show and manga its shown that vegeta and 18 take equal damage, however 18 is more level headed due to having equal energy. I dont remember the exact source but I believe it was an japanese android guide explaining facts about the androids and one of them was about 18 , explaining how in her fight with vegeta they were both equal, but her level headedness and infinite stamina gave her the advantage over him
@@Nalter_In the manga and anime, Vegeta says Piccolo fused with Kami is much stronger than himself. Piccolo fused with Kami is equal to 17 and 17 is a little bit stronger than 18. 18 also says Vegeta was helpless than her. So no, 18 and Vegeta aren’t equals.
@ you can be equal in strength to an opponent in dragon ball but still get washed cause of your mental, 18 was calm while vegeta was slowly getting exhausted, the point of the fight was to showcase 17 & 18s infinite stamina. Also my main point is that the 18 scaling in this video is way too high, they’re at least relative or 18s slightly stronger
@ I agree the androinds and Piccolo are more strong than they should be compared to the ssj’s but the androinds and piccolo are still significantly stronger than the ssjs at the time as stated by Vegeta himself.
Roshi literally has a transformed buffed up form that should have a higher power level than his relaxed form And by that thought process you should infer that kuririn can also supress his powers because we know he's stronger than roshi as he has stated to have been surpassed by him previously so if roshi has a buffed up form that form still needs to be weaker than kuririn
Using gravity training is not a good way to gauge strength. Goku was struggling with 10x gravity meanwhile Saiyan toddlers are chilling in that gravity. It's likely that they're stronger but simply not used to it. That would explain why kid trunks would hit an off guard fat Buu and sent him flying into a mountain. That happened when Buu had Vegeta pinned against the ground. That's more impressive than when Buu had shin pinned down in the same position and a tired Gohan was only able to kick him a few feet back. It also explains why they could fight 18 in base and scare 18 into going for a win via disqualification the second they went ssj instead of even trying to fight them fairly. (They also fought cell jrs while rusty in the super manga)
The only thing power levels accomplish is making me question how Frieza's scouters work. If you're going to be a galactic dictator at least have some decent technology.
exactly. while exploding scouters was a nice little moment escalator making you as shocked as the other characters, it did make the tech seem very faulty if they blew up when reading certain power levels. especially considering how what was supposed to be another blue milk run for frieza (casually retrieve these items and wish for immortality) escalated into a power level arms race over a matter of DAYS with one warrior after another being stronger than the last or the heroes gaining a boost in overall power (including reinforcements like piccolo or goku) to counter any new threat.
Gohan’s power up doesn’t only come from the mystic form but also from training with the z sword that is why his base power would be a lot higher than it was before making the multiplier slightly less significant but still big
2:18 I feel like the series could've done something really cool here. It's pretty clear that Raditz has *never* seen someone gather their ki like this before, implying that that's just not a thing that happens in Frieza's army. The implication of this is that in Frieza's army, you don't train to master your ki. Your power level is your power level, there's no changing it, and you are whatever class of soldier the scouters say you are. It gives more depth to the big story beats of early Dragonball that through training and perseverance, you can overcome your status. Power levels actually do not matter. They didn't do this, of course, because Toriyama forgot how he characterized Raditz in this fight.
gohan also trained with the z-sword until he could hold it normally, same sword goku considered too heavy for him to swing as easily as gohan could before the getting ultimate
@@mannygomez5213 and also bubbles is smaller making him more agile. Just like struggling to catch a fly doesn't mean the fly is stronger than you there's no evidence Bubbles was stronger than goku although it is possible
Ozaru Vegeta would be 180,000 if he transformed from a natural moon(ki loss from the fight so far notwithstanding) but in that particular fight Vegeta transformed via powerball, which dropped his ki to some significant degree. Both Goku and Vegeta mentally comment on the drop as quite significant, so his power level after creating it is unclear but quite a bit lower. The reason it is like this is presumably because it has to burn in the sky for a long time whereas most ki attacks dissipate within seconds.
I think the reason Toriyama dropped power levels is because he himself realised the absurd jumps necessary to make the Freeza fight happen were too stupid and he can't be trusted with using them as a writing tool. We are more easily able to miss or ignore crazy jumps in power later in the series just because the information isn't given to us, but they certainly are still happening.
むかし、この国は深い森におおわれ、そこには太古からの神々がすんでいた Mukashi, kono kuni wa fukai mori ni ooware, soko ni wa taiko kara no kamigami ga sunde ita. Il y a très longtemps, ce pays était couvert d’une grande forêt : dans celle-ci vivaient les anciens dieux…
You're underestimating the boost from the 3 year timeskip. It was said before that don't bother showing up unless u can handle mecha frieza. And they all showed up
@@franciscopereira7798 that doesn't mean it's a statement to be taken completely literally, though. There's absolutely no reason to think Yamcha has surpassed Frieza, yet there he is It's more like "If you aren't strong enough to stand up to Frieza, you're gonna get wrecked without question"
@@yurazahi personally put them in between half power frieza and base namek goku. Not enough to do damage but strong enough to have their techniques do some damage.
The funny part about the Namek Arc is that Super Saiyan was not needed, at all. If Gokū is equal to 50% Freeza with his Kaiōken ×20, adding a full-force Kamehameha would have put Gokū AT LEAST twice as powerful as Freeza, surpassing his 100%. Gokū Kaiōken ×20 = 60.000.000 Freeza 50% = 60.000.000 Gokū Kaiōken ×20 + Kamehameha = between 120.000.000 and 133.269.230 Generally, some people think Kamehameha is a 2,22 multiplier (or 2,2211538461538461538461538461538 to be precise) because of the Raditts fight (where he jumps from 416 to 924), but the reality is that Raditts stopped counting Gokū's battle power (which was still rising) cause the scouter picked Piccolo's power, which was higher, plus we do know that you can charge a Kamehameha (or any attack, really) for as much as you want, virtually speaking; so a ×2,22 is a plausible multiplier, but not the only one possible. Although, if we consider that multiplier, specifically, then Gokū's assault on Freeza could have brought him from 60.000.000 up to 133.269.230 (or 133.269.230,76923076923076923076923), which is more than Freeza's Max Power and far more than his 50%.
Attacks like Kamehameha only increase the power level because it's focused onto one point. Kaio-Ken, however, already requires Goku to focus his ki around the whole body to multiply his power. He cannot focus his ki into two places at the same time, because then it wouldn't be focused. Kamehameha is just a flashy attack that unleashes his full power while using the Kaio-Ken, like Vegeta using the Galick Gun in their first fight.
@Cableguy15 that flashy attack is made out of ki, the flashy thing is the reaction it has with the air, is the reason why a leaf catches fire if it gets close to the characters (as seen with Spopovitch) - ignoring the anime that has no consistency with ki - if you look at the manga, low levels of ki makes the air around you hotter, at slightly higher levels, it creates a yellow flame around you, if you concentrate it more creates a red flame, and going further makes it violet. In Super this gets expanded adding different qualities of ki that create different types of auras, from yellow, to red to blue, on regular cases, cyan with angelic ki, violet/magenta with destructive ki. Characters are shown to focus ki on many points, even the Makankosappō focuses ki on two fingers and shoots to different beams: a straight one and a spiraling one. There's the ability to shoot dozens of ki blasts from your whole body, and so on. The source is the same, but you can feed it In multiple points at the same time, it just means you have to burn out more and stay more focused.
This moment is big for me. It's worth noting though, Goku was very badly beaten when he resorted to a x20 Kaioken, having also been using a x10 draining lots of energy. I believe it more likely Goku's power was around 1.5M when he whipped out the KKx20 Kamehameha. This would make for an incredibly surprising attack for Frieza, reaching 66M. Frieza blocked it with one hand for a simple reason- his original 100% was never meant to be 120M. That was a calculation given AFTER he took the spirit bomb and nearly died. Meaning, his clean 50% was probably around 75-80M, and had he not played torturer, he could have won, even against a Super Saiyan.
3:26 - No it was established during the Raditz fight as Goku and Piccolo were able to raise their power levels by discarding weights and charging ki attacks, which conversely means their power does have a baseline which can be raised or suppressed!
12:00 Laughingstock media made an interesting video about zenkai boosts. They came up with a theory and tried to argue for it. They argued that zenkai boosts focus on the largest power level in proximity around the Saiyan and try to match that number. So, if a Saiyan is on the verge of death against a stronger opponent with a power level of 5 million, and they survive and get a zenkai boost, they will have a power level around or of 5 million. They guess that Vegeta was too early and only managed to detect freiza’s 3rd form power level, rather than the form we see Frieza fight in later. Since dende healed Vegeta before the transformation was complete, Vegeta didn’t get a zenkai boost matching the newer power level. Meanwhile, goku was still healing in the healing pod back at the spacecraft, and was finished after frieza’s transformation, so goku had a zenkai boost more closely matching freiza’s new power level. Of course, since Frieza was still not at full power then, Frieza could still put up a fight against goku at this point. That’s the running theory that they were thinking in the video, anyways. Whether you want to follow this logic or not is up to you.
*Logical Inconsistency:* You say Goku and Piccolo's power is lower due to their weighs, then later say that Roshi isn't stronger because you assume he cannot suppress his power level. But he is wearing the weighted turtle shell and you overlook this. The shell is expressly part of his training and it what gives Goku the idea of using weights in the first place.
oh, wow, ive been arguing with people about this for awhile, but your right.... atlest I think, do we ever get proof that roshi is wearing the weighted shell himself?
I'd need to go back and double check and I am busy making part 2 of my dinoking manga. For what its worth, I also hate the power level argument. A characters "power level" is essentially their energy rating. Like a mana pool in a video game or a spiritual alignment in Asian alchemy (which is what Toyorama based all this on). The point of Power Levels was to show how utterly meaningless they are. Its another reason Roshi could kick ass in the super manga, because fighting power and experience are essentially "different stats" and not everything is about "Power Level." But you try explaining that to most people on the internet and they just want to argue with you. Its silliness. RIP Toyorama.
27:53 its stated in super exciting guide that potara is just A*B, but since there's a rivalry boost (that we don't know) its closer to y = mx+b, where m and x are goku/vegeta's powers, b is the rivalry boost and y is vegito's power level. So, vegito is literally overpowered
Correct! And at any time that Goku and Vegeta can choose the fusion type, Vegito will ALWAYS be stronger than Gogeta, let's now wait for the internet to break 😂😂😂
@@JohnWiku fr its kinda crazy how people genuinely think they're even comparable when vegito blue in the GOKU BLACK ARC was matching (and beating his ass) fused zamasu, whereas our best feat for gogeta is a post tournament of power goku and vegeta fused into him to beat a raging broly (same guy who couldnt even put non-black frieza down after a straight hour of beating him)
yeah it said "rivaled" or something along that lines, so he should be close, but he is above them. He is still arguably below 1,300 though since a special beam cannon in the 1,300s killed him.
and that is what i despise about power levels. it sucks the hype out of a scenario with either mistranslations or numbers that just sound meaningless, especially since we know the heroes are going to win somehow or some day. the way most villains were written, the power levels are redundant, anyway. other details about certain characters told you all you needed to know. example: vegeta as a prince and elite warrior was naturally one of the strongest saiyans, but he rivaled cui before his time on earth. and cui was made clear to be weaker than zarbon or dodoria, frieza's aides/enforcers. then there is the saiyans being vassals to frieza and his father. plus, gero's androids were designed to drain ki energy (vital for beating tough enemies) and were able to go toe-to-toe with goku. plus, cell was built from the DNA of the galaxy's greatest warriors and he can grow stronger from absorbing others, including his android "siblings". all these details help highlight the aproximate power hierarchy of the series WITHOUT using some rediculous measurement. we all know the next foe is either going to be stronger than the last or have some quality (such as energy drain or time manipulation) that levels the playing field a bit.
@@weeaboo-warrior Small nitpick but the 1,330 missed. Raditz was hit by the 1,440. What makes you right is Gohan's headbutt at 1,370 had Raditz reeling bad.
And things just get even sillier from there, like the sheer power that those random freiza grunts that the z fighters held off in the movie have to have scaled way higher than frieza at this galactic empire prime.
there's a lot to disagree with here 1st you completely ignored the statement that gurus potential unlock works over time and gohan and krillins full power came out in the battle with frieza not the ginyu force 2nd after future trunks kills frieza and cold piccolo tells the whole cast "if you are not at least strong enough to deal with frieza by the time of the androids don't bother showing up" and yamcha tien and krillin all show up but not chiaoutzu who as stated by tien was not strong enough for this fight and piccolo has no problem with their presence meaning they are all bare minimum equal to mecha frieza and king cold this is also supported by the androids actually thinking yamcha was goku based on his power reading and they had data on frieza and cold
Toriyama massively shot himself in the foot making the farmer's power level a 5, it meant every single power level from og db had to fit inside the range 5-416, there are several times someone states goku or some other character has become several times stronger but their "official" power level goes up by like 20%
It also makes Earth feel so pathetic. Piccolo Daimao is weaker than literally every single person in the universe outside of Earth it feels like, but Earth was helpless against him. I praise Dr. Gero for making Earth the top dog
The absorption of humans to hugely boost Cell's power is actually very consistent. He feeds on the lifeforce of living beings he absorbs, and it's actually the same power Goku uses for the Genki-dama, and we all know how humanity's joint efforts produced a spirit bomb nearly powerful enough to disintegrate Majin Buu completely
1:05 “No Raditz at 1,500 as Nappa clearly said he was at 1,200.” Thank you Bro!!! You just Don’t know how good it is to listen to somebody who embraces the Manga (DBZ) & Anime (DBZ KAI) over a n extremely flawed Guidebook.
2:47 “But he’ll be back in time for the Saiyan Attack” He really wasn’t though. The fact that he was not back in time for the Saiyan Attack is actually a huge plot point.
I think that, from a narrative perspective, pre-majin SSJ2 Vegeta is supposed to be stronger than super perfect cell and the same goes for SSJ2 Goku of course but maybe not for adult SSJ2 Gohan since he was slacking off. This is because Vegeta was confident he had surpassed Gohan and wanted to test himself against Goku in the buu arc and he must have meant the strongest version of Gohan he had sensed (pre-injury SSJ2 teen Gohan) . So, either base Vegeta ( and obviously base Goku) in the buu arc should be stronger or SSJ2 teen Gohan and super perfect Cell should be weaker. Other than that, I generally agree.
I don't think Cell's power level increasing as much as it did from absorbing humans is that insane. If the average person's power level is about 5, that means he would have just killed 240 million people to get to the level that he was at. I know we mostly only focus on a few cities in Dragonball, but it is an Earth-like planet with likely many cities. If we assume a population anything similar to Earth, that means all Cell did was kill a third of a percentage of all people, which is a huge number and would justify his incredible infamy.
I still think the only reason potara fusion is stronger than metamoran fusion is because of the metamoran fusion's requirement of needing both the participants to be of the same power level. So if goten was 95,000 and trunks was 108,000: - metamoran fusion would be (95000 x 2) x 2500 (x1.5 for training) for 715,500,000 as in the video. - potara fusion would be (95000 + 108000 ) x 2500 (x1.5 for training) for 761,250,000. Ofc the 2500 number can be adjusted to be much lower if we consider that goten and trunks got much more than just 50% stronger. If there is indeed a constant multiplier after an addition then it should be possible to get as close to that number by using ui sign goku's power level/multiplier and kefla's power level. Base cabba was 'supposedly' as strong base vegeta who would be fucking insane power levels but that's besides the point. So that means base caulifla who was probably not THAT stronger than cabba being added with base kale who also wasn't strong as caulifla? times a multiplier then using kale's transformation multiplier on top of that is lower than ui sign. And ui sign is 60x above blue. All that is garbage coz blue's multiplier is insane (as it's linked to ssg). This would bring that number up to the levels of ssg multipliers which is waaay more than 2500 so this doesn't help at all. tldr: This wot was pointless. (The better option is to just wait for the 'No One Understands Power Levels In Dragon Ball Super' video xD)
I like how in the early manga of Z, Raditz an alien from outer space with no prior knowledge of earth, actually knows what Ki is, and talks about it as if he's always known. So this implies either that the aliens know what Ki is and that's fine, or that Toriyama slipped up. But that's not all, despite maybe knowing what Ki is, being able to harness and control it in a myriad of complex ways, the aliens are far far behind on the depth of knowledge about Ki, which is just kind of funny to me.
@@yurazah she had to dodge trunks's ki blast and mentionned how fast and powerful that unnamed blast was. hell, goten even tells trunk to not use full power when he fires it
@vadosu4521 alright let's use a second example, shortly after unlocking ssj, trunks is challenged by vegeta to hit him once, which he then proceed to surprise, pressure and then scrape ssj vegeta, unless you want to say he pulled a super goku and held all the way back to base goku against frieza level.
How do you see a panel of Trunks WILDLY swinging a sword with both his arms, and Goku effortlessly blocking it with a single finger and think "Hmmm, I'm not sure who this scene was trying to convey to be stronger here, I'm going to scale them to be equal."
I think the two sides of boo are stronger combined than before boo split but weaker than super boo. Wait why is he called super boo and not something like majin boo or hole boo?
That's just what the numbers end up at in terms of gohan scaling to his opponents, and somewhat consistently gohan gets 2x stronger from his rage boosts, with some exceptions like the first time
I loved the original so I’ve been waiting for this one. It’s pretty fun to go through the history of the series and sort the the little details I may have missed or forgot Edit- at 25m 18s, weren’t goku and Vegeta both in super Saiyan 2 though?
a mistake I noticed while researching my next video: gohan after getting his rage boost against nappa is only at 2800, so I probably greatly overhyped the z fighters in that arc, but everything around them is fine, they should all be below that 2800. I still stand by saying nappa is close to goku though
You made a mistake as far as Kaio Ken goes. Kaio Ken doubles your power. Kaio Ken ×2 is the exact same thing. He only says "times two" that one time to set up the Kaio Ken x3 a moment later, but there's no other reason to think it was any different than the normal Kaio Ken multiplier, which is a double. Goku was just talking about the normal Kaio Ken when he said "times two" that one time.
Also, Vegeta was not higher than Frieza's first form. Before Frieza transformed, Vegeta was very winded and sweaty and Frieza was just standing there, irritated. Frieza transformed because he saw that Vegeta thought he still had a chance, and Frieza wanted total despair.
@@jacobclark6002 It was also 1 vs 3. Gohan and Krillin were quite a bit stronger after the ginyu fight.
The mistake you mad was mixing up Gohan and Kullilin's power levels. The anime has Gohan at 781 and Kullilin at 1083. I'm going to check the Japanese manga but I'm willing to bet 981 is a mistranslation.
TLDR: you don't understand Power Levels yourself😂😂😂
OG dragon ball: "100 point increase after years of training"
DBZ:"1.4 MILLION FOR HITTING YOURSELF"
True
HOW DARE YOU SIR!? HOW DARE YOU! it was at least 1.5.
Inconsistencies and retcons
@@SBoundless How? It's a different context. They were mastering their martial arts abilities in DB, in DBZ they are beyond that and are reaching into deeper wells of power
DBS: Multiple infinite magnitudes of infinities from 1 push-up
well we now have the proof that truly no one understands power levels
@weegeguy9770
I think you hit the nail on the head, Toriyama was not a power scaler he did not think this way when writing the story, so applying these kinds of logic will always run into a bunch of pitfalls.
Take Goten and Trunks, should we put more emphasis on how well Trunks handles increased gravity training with Vegeta, or how well the 2 of them perform fighting Android 18 a character much stronger than Frieza, in the tournament.
Characters strengths shift depending on what the narrative requires, while they are always getting stronger it is very difficult to know by how much, and you really can't just apply math to situations as though Toriyama was sitting there with a book on engineering and physics to know how much force each feat required.
@@derekerickson4144 I am not sure but the entire Saga up to Frieza's end at Namek was such a consistent story, i dare throw in the theory that he may not even have intended to continue from there, maybe he'd have not even brought in the scouters or "power levels" as we know it if he knew how much things would escalate.
@@DontKnow-hr5my he said himself that he wanted to continue writing after the frieza saga
@DontKnow-hr5my that makes no sense. Not only did he say he wanted to continue after Freeza. He said he wanted to push Gohan into the main role. Which you can kinda see in the Cell Saga. Freeza was never supposed to be the end of Dragon Ball. Cell wasn't either. The Buu saga kinda went off rails. To be fair the whole manga was written very quickly. He was slamming out arc after arc. 9 years from Goku being a child to the end of the Buu saga. Bleach and Naruto went 15 years for less story being told. The man was a writing beast and you can tell with Super he still loved the story and wanted to do more with it
Yeah I stopped counting 10 minutes into the video. It's easier on the brain to say they're as strong as whatever the writer wants them to be.
>No one understands powel levels
>Immediately spirals into convoluted gibberish
Yeah, no wonder.
he even came up with his own (nonsensical) understanding of how the potara multiplier works even though theres a well known official way it works (fighter 1 * fighter 2 and then a potential rivalry boost)
@@velryxia Because he’s saying databooks are bullshit and it’s true that they aren’t entirely reliable
@@KurokamiNajimi while thats true, he only mentioned power levels being unreliable in the data books, not what they actually clear up
@@velryxia I personally stopped at 50% Mecha-Frieza being stronger than 100% Namek-Frieza XD
But out of curiosity, did he acknowledged SS3 Gotenks (post rosat) was a couple hundred times stronger than SS3 Goku?
@@marinomele4575 He said ssj3 gotenks was stronger than base super buu but refuses to let go of his "fighter a + fighter b * some random number" and says goten and trunks are both below 200,000 in the buu saga. and yes, he genuinely think they are weaker than first form frieza in namek by at least 3 times
Because Toriyama himself didn't understand power levels. He just wanted things to seem drastic/dramatic at times.
He also regretted them, recognizing that it just turned into a game of "who has the bigger number". And to his credit while not the best author of all time he did dial back the constant references to power level the further you got away from the Freiza and Cell sagas.
@@Goldenkitten1 To be fair, Dragon Ball has ALWAYS been about the biggest number. Roshi never taught Goku and Kuririn any martial arts. He only trained their bodies. Goku only defeated Tao Pai Pai by training his bodyand getting "stronger". The number may not be said, but it's there.
Power levels were a mistake. Toriyama should have abandoned power levels after the Namek saga.
@@exterminans He sorta did before it, as the only characters to be genuinely surprised are the ones who never faced off against the Earthlings trained by Namekians before, who actually learn energy control
How did King Kai improve Piccolo so much? Easy, Piccolo is just _that_ funny. Deadpan straight man.
"we here on kingkai's planet do not condone child violence. We do however find it hilarious"
How did King Kai improve Piccolo so much? I don't know, there must have been some monkey business going on.
I love the absolute lowballing of "over eight thousand" at exactly 8001, unironically.
After saying that I think that is hilarious
Nappa: "What?!!!! Over 8,000?!!!!!"
Nappa(uses his scouter): "8,001?!!!!! Ummmm......Vegeta, isn't 1 power level over 8,000 pretty much the same as 8,000? How you said it so over dramatically, I thought that he would at least be a lot closer to 9,000."
I have to disagree - if there is ANY character that knows how to control his power level it is Roshi - like literally the first time we see Roshi do anything he goes super saiyan Grade II (I will forever keep making fun of Grade II and III - they just buffed up, anyone with ki control can do this). Roshi is a master martial artists that has trained his Ki for hundreds of years and he invented ki based techniques.
Learning to control your power level is a skill you have to learn - yes. But Roshi absolutely has it. Vegeta doesn't have it until later - but it's a fairly common skill among human martial artists. Like Vegeta himself says he picked it up from the earthlings, and the fight vs Radditz is what let him know that they can hide their power levels so there is no use relying on the scouter.
In this scene Roshi is displaying his standing power level, but Krillin is flexing for the rating
EDIT : Also I do have a bit of a head canon for the great Ape Vegeta - I think that he wasn't actually 180,000 on earth. Like this WOULD be how strong Oozaru Vegeta is if he transformed naturally, but he specifically says that the artificial moon comes at a great cost, so I think it would make sense to assume that Oozaru Vegeta on earth is still stronger, but not AS strong as 180, since at 180 he frankly should be untouchable, especially since he hasn't learned to control his ki yet. It is interesting to think though that Oozaru Vegeta under perfect circumstances was actually stronger than Ginyu
Kid Goku suppresses his ki in #129 against Tien lol. It would be a very big leap to think Roshi of all people doesn't know it, since he's so talented, knowledgeable, old, and Goku's master.
Goku Literally states his power got cut in half before he deploys the fake moon.
Roshi figured out how to increase his muscle mass to allow for more ki flow. That's not the same as concentrating your ki to a higher level like the namekians and those trained by namekians. Ginyu specifically stated that was a rare ability that he had.
@@Nathaniel-w5n Yes - it is a rare ability. In the Freeza force, which has recruits from all over the universe, Freeza and Ginyu are like 2 people that are known for the ability to control their power level. Heck Freeza can't even sense power levels, despite Goku just getting this ability after getting strong enough. But even though it is a rare ability on the universal scale - all of the earthling fighters have it, if they got it after years of martial arts, surely Roshi managed to find time to learn it in the hundreds of years he trained
I wouldn't say it's a fairly common skill among human martial artists. A majority of them do not have Ki control, which is why the general population always freaks out when they witness this kind of stuff. Even a majority of the fighters during tournaments do not have Ki control, generally only the top fighters do and even then some of them do not. Ox King was a student of Roshi's and he hasn't ever shown that kind of ability. Vegeta is an Alien from another planet, making the comparison doesn't work.
Are you telling me
that fucking Bubbles the monke
would have clapped the entire Tenkaichi tournament with Piccolo and Goku in it
absolutely
@@yurazah somebody please animate this
What about g r e g o r y would Gregory stabd a chance
@@Grape_Rush_Goat gregory is Radish level
@@Grape_Rush_Goat hes a much smaller target, so I dont know if hes actually stronger beyond just being hard to hit, but hes also filler so I didnt include it
“Gohan demoralizes Cell to the point that he decides to kill himself” when you put it like that this is hilarious
It's really weird how official material say that Nappa is 4000, but then he's able to pressure Goku into guarding with Kamehameha. It also just doesn't make sense for Piccolo to be 3500 or so, but barely able to harm Nappa while Nappa is 4000 but potentially able to damage a Goku that's 8000+.
Nappa was no less than 6500-7000 at peak. No reason for Goku to have a slight edge toward the end of their fight and stating it might take forever to beat him
Future Trunks has a no BS attitude so he didn't let Freeza power up.
He told Freeza to come at him at full power, even did so multiple times in the anime. If Trunks was truly about no BS he would have sliced Freeza and Cold immediately.
@@jollygoodfellow3957 if I'm not mistaken, that's anime filler
@@jollygoodfellow3957 He literally did in like 5 seconds, the whole half episode fight is filler, the real fight goes like that: trunks sends a ki blast, frieza goes up, trunks slices him with his sword and fries him, LITERALLY
yes, and it's actually confirmed by Gohan mecha Frieza was not at full power. Frieza was never shown or stated to have powered up, so imo he had to be suppressed still. Maybe at half power like he was on namek.
@@weeaboo-warrior I also think it's half power at most. On Namek, he shows the ability to quickly jump up in percentages. Seems to become stronger when using no hands against Goku and then the jump from 50-70%, but it's never more than a 20% increase. The mecha form is supposed to make him stronger than ever, so maybe he can make bigger jumps than before, but I find it hard to believe he was at 100% with a single ki blast.
Yeah, the biggest gripe about power levels is how much it falls apart when you actually start thinking about it. Like how Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga was at 18,000 after decades of harsh fighting in space, and yet right after Earth started getting one massive power boost after another, essentially gaining a higher power level in a few months compares to the decades before. Or how the heck the Androids that Dr. Gero created were so powerful given that he stopped gathering data after the Saiyan Saga, when the power levels were at a max of just over 20,000.
Vegeta wasnt fighting near death before goku, simple as that, if cui was his rival they certainly never fought to the death. Bardock was getting stronger because zenkias only work if you fight to your upper most limit. That was the point of Goku, he fought from the weaket and kept getting stronger
@@robertwilson7259 Yeah but then you just do a few hundred reps of basic exercises under intense gravity and your power goes up by a factor of 10. 😂 The whole system is nonsense, lacks internal consistency and relies on exposition to tell you that characters are stronger even though the bar for power was set with blowing up planets very early on. DBZ imo is best appreciated if you ignore all of the poorly explained and nonsensical mechanics of ki/power levels and just focus on the plot/action.
@@JeszeEnbee Isn't the implication that Vegeta never trained? With the class system of Saiyans they seem to stick to the power level they were born with which implies either a lack or only enough training to maintain their power.
Vegeta only ever took to improving himself after his encounter on earth and everything he learnt there.
Because before this Vegeta didn’t get quick sensu beans and dende’s instant healing that would give him the zenkai MID BATTLE unlike the healing chambers that took hours to heal AFTER battles
Saiyans would literally show up to planets in line with full moons being available to claim them quicker for Frieza. They get reprimanded for taking long amounts of time, so there was no incentive to zenkai. Frieza was probably somewhat aware of this too and ensured his monkeys were instagibbing planetary forces instead of grinding for real and improving their base powers.
Power levels are not hard, but Toriyama did the right thing, by droping that concept half way thru Freeza fight. Those numbers were just getting to ridiculous.
And then the fandom came, and decided that nah, we need numbers on everything! Sigh...
lol man, lesson learned never use numbers
@@Gridlock3 very bad idea to even introduce them at all, frankly. He could have used the ki sensing techniques to do practically the same thing he wanted with power levels without writing himself into a corner. And then intern-cooked guides that he himself "checked" but didn't even have quality enough not to directly contradict the manga started getting printed out left and right and now we have the fandom we have. It's no wonder they're BASICALLY abstent for every self-respecting shonen after that.
@@gustavolopes5094 seriously, the power levels were so needlessly redundant! the very nature of the story and even everyone's place in the galactic "heirarchy" already made it clear where people stood in "power scaling". frieza was a galactic emperor second to his father in their empire. he also had a number of elite warriors and the generic minions under him. then, you have the fact saiyans were subservient to him and even their own prince Vegeta had been about on par with one of the weaker Elites (Cui) by about the time he first came to earth. then you have the androids being built to counter goku and even drain his energy (huge weakpoint for the heroes). plus, cell in particular had been built from the DNA and abilities of many of the galaxy's greatest warriors gero could get samples from, including frieza and cold. plus, he had the potential to get stronger from absorbing others (including his android "siblings") and lived up to "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" like his saiyan doners did. all of these LITTLE details gave you a good sense of power scaling. and that's not even considering the elements present in Super like Gods of Destruction, Zeno, and the fusion that is Goku Black.
@@KristopherPrime Yep. It's very counterproductive.
Plus, there was no need to make Nappa and Vegeta SO FAR above Raditz and the gaps between each subsequent villain also so large. With the gap between Power Levels being that big he basically said "there's no way anyone can surpass them" at the same time everyone easily surpassed them.
@@KristopherPrimeyou stating Frieza was second to King Cold fumbles your entire point
Part of me wants them to say that piccolo got so much stronger simply because he was drinking King kais water, which had more nutrients and blah blah blah, and it made his body stronger. I think that be a funny way of how he got stronger on his planet in 10 days.
Yo lmao great idea
There’s no reason to think he’s at 50,000 the video is wrong, piccolo just had to be stronger than the average namekian to get that compliment and their elites were at 3,000 Nail was just a special case cause he protected the grand elder
@@Criteon Problem with that is we know namekian fusion isn't as potent as becoming a SSJ and I don't think Nail would say you're incredible but you still can't beat him if Piccolo wasn't even stronger than him
@@KurokamiNajimi that’s not even true, the manga never mentions the potency of namekian fusion and especially never compares it to ssj so you’re just making stuff up
Additionally nail is left for dead his power is basically 0 dude can’t even stand up, namekian fusion has nothing to do with multiplying their own powers that for certain
@ I might be wrong look it up I could have sworn there was a quote from the elder saying something like only a SSJ could be stronger than a super namekian or whatever they call it
powerscaling mathematicians always end up making educated wishes on what they think the power levels of characters are. Always interesting
Definitely way higher than what I would say. I tend to put ss2 Gohan and Super Perfect Cell at around 3.5 billion
@@Jim-pq9pmwatch saiyan scholars z power levels video its the best video out there by far and tries to use as little head cannon as possible
Educated wishes would be clever if i didn't know it was from deadpool and wolverine
and the numbers are always orders of magnitude lower than they should be, because it's all vibes based. we KNOW how strong the characters are, so can get realistic answers with physics and basic multiplication/division.
for example: using el manga legendario + super exciting guide + vs. battle wiki's attack potency page, base vegetto should have a lowball'd power level in the hundreds of septillions, not a measly large star level 3 trillion.
@@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap Based on my calculations, star level is about 8 billion. I base this on full power Master Roshi having a 300 when he blew up the moon. Earth has about 80 times the mass of the moon, so 300x80=24000, Vegeta was higher than that when he said he could blow up the Earth, so that is consistent. The sun has about 333 000 times the mass of the Earth, so 24000x333000=7 992 000 000, or 8 billion. This would be consistent with Cell's claim that he could blow away the solar system, if he meant that he could destroy the sun
The ability to concentrate and raise or lower your ki was an extremely rare ability. Captain ginyu makes this very clear when Jeice doesnt understand whats going on and says he is one of the rare few in the universe who can do it. The earthlings were taught the ability by kami because the namekians figured it out. This was shown on namek when their power levels jumped. They didnt know how to supress their power levels though. Otherwise guru and nail could have easily hidden from the scouters.
Roshi figured out how to increase his muscle mass, which increased his ki flow. Similar to grade 2 and 3 of SSJ. He had basic ki control, but couldnt concentrate it in the same way. Same for 100% frieza.
The only thing one must understand about power levels is that they're worthless and only exist to create artificial hype. Everything else is secondary.
I mean considering the point of introducing power levels was to establish that no one understands power levels, I think this might be the most fitting video title of all time.
power levels are cool until you start to think about them. Pretty much breaks once vegeta kill Cui in one hit on Namek. Also the whole Zenkai boost thing is the laziest crap.
Power levels were introduced solely to have the villains be shocked when they underestimated the heroes. Sadly it was something the fans latched onto and Toei obliged.
zenkai boost (i'm presuming you mean saiyan boost) isn't a bad thing if you ask me. hell, this saiyan biology quality makes sense all the way back in OG dragon ball. what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, quite literally in the case of saiyans. every blow and near death experience goku has had only made him more powerful, even if slow and steady over the course of the OG series. and it lends well to part of why goku is special, as he and his race had the potential to become gods. heck, it even improves the story with the tragedy of the saiyans' fate falling to their own pride and ambitions. they could have become a race of gods, but others like Beerus and frieza ultimately feared or despised their potential, leading to near-extinction save for a few survivors.
Didn't expect to see you here, Willy Mac! We be hating on power levels more than we do Hasan Piker with this one 🔥🔥
Akira Toriyama actually gave an interview that sheds a bit of light on why Vegeta killed some characters who weren't that far off from his battle power. He explains that there are three aspects to Ki. One is raw energy, the other has to do with courage, and the final has to do with right-mindedness. Characters like Cui and Dodoria are already fighting at a disadvantage against Vegeta because they've been demoralized by his 24,000 reading being above theirs. They also both flee like cowards, so in a way, all they have is raw energy against Vegeta. It's like they're only fighting with a third of their power.
Meanwhile, Zarbon puts up a much better fight than Dodoria in his pretty boy form, even though he and Dodoria are supposed to be around the same battle power. It's more like Vegeta is slowly picking him apart, and that's because Zarbon keeps a cool head (Knowing he's got his monster transformation as a trump card). Some of the fights make a lot more sense when you contextualize them with the three aspects of ki mentioned in that interview: Shoki, Genki, and Yuki.
The whole point of power levels was just a thematic story telling device for the Saiyan arc. They showed that Saiyans determined each other's worth based on the power level they were born with, which is exactly what Vegeta told Goku during their fight.
The problem is that fans just took the power levels more seriously than they were meant for.
29:03 "Everyone gets to live happily ever after for four years."
Well, look at that timing! Daima's power levels would interesting to see considering we're still trying to figure out how much they got nerfed by being turned into kids.
maybe we'll cover it after it ends
You'll have to be careful about that. Z devolved into relatively linear power scaling because Toriyama was exhausted and out of ideas. He actually added a Z to the title to indicate the final chapters despite that it lasted longer than the "original" series.
As for Daima, it looks like it's all setting up for a REALLY wonky overhaul (in a very, very good way) that pulls from GT and the original Dragon Ball and reverts back to the emphasis of character technique and mentality instead of the linear power scaling shtick. That should ultimately mean characters such as Gokuu and Piccolo retain their higher technical skills and efficiency while Vegeta will probably end up being the least affected by all the nerfs, but yeah, still not a very efficient fighter.
Still, a LOT of people are going to hate Daima for more than its design choices, but I think getting wrapped up in BPR will be just as much of a mistake as it would be with the "original" series. Our main antagonist right now is basically Pilaf 3.0 with advantages outside of BPR. Daima is not going to feel anything like Z.
@ShonowtH Did Toriyama even come up with Z? That only applies to the anime, which he didn't work on, and the English localized Dragon Ball. Otherwise, Toriyama's entire manga was only known as Dragon Ball to the end of the Buu saga.
@@TayoEXE His work itself went uninterrupted, but I did read somewhere that he wanted the Z added to help wrap it up. Thought it was in that Derek Padula encyclopedia of sorts. I have no source, so I won't double down.
Either way, case in point, he was tired of Dragon Ball for a very long time, and when you're tired of something, the creativity doesn't flow very well. It's how the Majin Buu arc wound up so full of holes and slipped back toward his trademark comedy writing; he was never an action author nor anywhere near as enthused about the power scaling as viewers usually are. Plus, if his unspecified "it's how I feel about my life" comment about Sand Land is any indicator, it wasn't just exhaustion for 'im.
I do very much enjoy the Majin Buu arc, personally. It's not my favorite of the four arcs, but with no energy or inspiration, yeah, he let his sillier senses bleed into it, and it makes for a good balance between action and his unique brand of silliness. It's part of why Majin Buu was so difficult to handle even aside from power scaling; his mindsets and behaviors are wildly unpredictable. Definitely one of his better antagonists. I love that Mr. Satan came back as the reincarnation of Suppaman in that arc as well. Explains why he went from enormous to puny.
0:26 low accounting for the fact that he was able to fight two super Saiyans simultaneously
So funny that a single zenkau boost brought Goku from 90,000 in base to over a million to be comparable to 4th dorm Frieza 😂
He had multiple zen boosts on the ship while on the way to Namek. Go watch the show again.
I always assumed the super zenkais come from experiencing multiple near deaths in a short time span, trying to boost the body to its max in order to not lose again. Goku and Vegeta experienced many zenkais in the namek arc in rapid succession, Goku going through intense multiple near death training on the ship, and Vegeta just getting humbled over and over again.
@@BillDaBigChief I'm talking about from when he fights Ginyu to when he fights Frieza, let's play nice
@@antonbrown17 probly even more, final form freeza base power is about 6 mill so goku whould have gotten way more then 1 mill.
Goku is officially 3 million at that point, 150 million as a ssj w a 50x multiplier. Idk why this guy is ignoring the guides
Small correction- Nappa's exact words in the manga when talking about the power of the Saibaimen are "On par with Raditz." On par doesn't necessarily means equal to, as I put Raditz in 1,500 like many others. On par can be a minor difference of 300. I see people saying Bejita's GA form when fighting Kakarrot is 180,000. However that is just wrong, considering by the time he transformed he got injured pretty badly. He also stated that creating the fake moon will cost him some of his power, so I think by the time he transformed he was at 7,000 making him 70,000. By the time of the transformation I put Gohan at 1,000 making him 10,000.
Yeah, the Saibaimen are just somewhat relative. Raditz is also obviously smarter and has real moves and such, equalising them too much is disingenuous. I'd put both vaguely within a range of 1200-1500, but Raditz always wins a fight against a Saibaiman.
@@Supahdenning Exactly. Unless a tiny bit of a chance to get hurt somewhat, and that is if the Saibaimen decided to make suicide.
Small correction 😉 Nappas exact words were
強さだけのことならラディッツに同じぐらいがある。
Tsuyosa dake no koto nara Raditsu ni onagi gurai ga aru
If strength is the only consideration then they equal Raditsu
The implication is that Raditsu would defeat them through competency
@@Thromaz Interesting. I don't know Japanese good enough. Thank you for that. I meant the English translation of the manga but here I learned something new. So he doesn't say a number at all in the original Japanese, making it possible for Raditsu to be 1,500.
@@Thromaz correction to the transcription you gave:
tsuyosa dake no koto nara *radittsu* ni *onaji* gurai ga aru
RIP to the absolute unit Farmer with a shotty
I feel obligated to disagree about suppressing power levels. Maily because it's literally just suppressing ki... Which Goku does against Tien in OG Dragon Ball, chap 129.
No reason at all to imagine Roshi of all people wouldn't be able to do the same.
theres a difference between a guy pulling his punches and outputting more ki
@@yurazah that was clearly not what was happening. Tien even tells him "I can tell you are going all out". In that fight, Tien still couldn't sense ki, and he also was relying on his enhanced vision. That was a clear textual cue that Goku wasn't holding back physically.
He then replies "yeah at my tournament level power" which is almost the exact wording used to describe suppressing and raising Ki later.
@yurazah it's so unironic that you don't understand power levels and DB in general
@@gustavolopes5094the clue that goku was holding back was him saying so. Goku didn't have ki control of that level until after his training with Kami(and probably king kai).
Vegeta was actually relative in power to 18 but 18 had endless stamina while super saiyan when it’s unmastered has a pretty major stamina drain
On the surface it seems nuts that billions of power levels are just thrown around in this video, but one thing that really supports it is the Japanese title of The Return of Cooler. "Clash!! 10 Billion Power Warriors".
"Goku reaches 18 hundred thousand after activating his kaioken"
Just say the actual numbers man, it's 180,000. 18 hundred thousand would be 1.8 million anyways
I'm sorry, I can't read
I loved your assessment of Nappa's power. I always thought it was kinda strange that Goku's power level was ~8000-9000 and he didn't immediately dispatch Nappa with a power level of ~4000-5000. With almost double the power, you'd think Goku would crush him. They seemed kinda in the same ballpark of power until Goku used Kaio-Ken.
I hate that people never consider anything outside of BPR. Gokuu samples the shit out of everything and learns what's going on before really honing his approach, not unlike some classic, ape-based martial arts styles. Reasonably, Nappa should sit around 10-12k and Gokuu would probably not have all that much trouble at 8k. Nappa'd had plenty of battle experience, but that experience has been "I'm just stronger by default, so I don't really need to pay much attention," just like Vegeta at that time.
Thats because they were, nappa showed 2 different power levels, and it is apparent in their fight. it was never stated if he powered up, got stronger, or if he was psychologically suppressed. But Vegeta made it clear that if he calmed down hed be on par with goku. so there was definitely some un explored elements of powering up in the Saiyan saga. No matter how you explain it. Nappa after concentrating was stronger than the nappa the z fighters fought
3:39 Master Roshi’s Power Level is 139 in his Regular form. However when he transitions or transforms into his Buff Form, it increases his power level by 2x.
Remember, The Power Level Requirement is 300 to destroy the moon. And 10,000 to destroy Earth. 139 x 2 = 278.
You gotta also remember The Kamehameha Wave at Max is a 2x Multiplier too. 278 x 2 = 556. Moon Busting Attack.
thank you for bringing up the fact ki blasts are much stronger then normal attacks
If 300 is required for the moon, then 24 600 is required for the Earth, as the Earth is 82 times the mass of the moon. And following that logic, you would need 8.1 billion to destroy the sun
10,000 to destroy a plantet its too much, its probably 1000
@@Jim-pq9pm power levels especially early on are not linear so someone with a power level of 5 vs someone who has 10 would be not twice as much stronger, but even more so then 2x, so being a moon buster at a pl of 500 doesnt mean that you would only be able to destroy another one with a thausand, it would increase drasticly
@@danielhaughton37 You have no proof for this, beyond the nonsensical guidebooks. Treating the numbers linearly is the only logical approach.
Bro in the cell saga picolo literally said if you are not stronger than frezia and King cold do not show up for the Androids that the reason why Chiaotzu did not show up
That was piccolo's recommendation. the others came regardlesss. goku in base STILL hasn't surpassed frieza btw. and we know base goku curbstomps every other human.
He doesn’t say that at all, tf are you talking about
piccolo just said the androids were very strong, and he doesn't want anyone who will drag them down. so you're already misinformed.
not to mention, why did all the humans show up for the cell games when they can't do anything? even vegeta and trunks basically couldn't do anything to cell or the juniors but they showed up.
finally, 19 and 20 weren't even frieza level. goku was already beating 19 with a fraction of his strength, and then a powered up 20 still got clowned on by piccolo, who I seriously doubt is stronger than frieza.
@theccarbiter piccolo say that
your videos are too underrated man great vid
14:39 "it's pretty ambiguous who is stronger" wdym, goku parried all of trunks's attacks with one finger
ambiguity there comes from both goku and trunk figuring out that none of them where going all-out
25:25 SS2 Goku needs to be a bit over 80,000,000,000 to make sense with in the story as SS2 Goku and SS2 manjin Vegeta are stronger than the SS2 Gohon with the rage boost durning the cell games
2:50 king yenma should have been given 900 as a reference to the BS power level that was given to Ox king as they look kinda similar
I kinda agree.
@@davidlahozgilthank you
I absolutely hate how the power scaling goes haywire in Namek. I think the root of the problem was making Freeza's first form be at 530,000. He should've been at 150,000 and all the other powers then should've been changed to accommodate that. No one else besides Freeza should be even close to 100,000 until Vegeta gets his boost after the Ginyu fight.
It's such a hilarious leap in power that seems unnecessary in hindsight but I guess was done to justify how he could blow up planets maybe?
@@antonbrown17 I don't think so, because Vegeta already threatens to destroy the Earth in his fight against Goku, who is aware of how powerful Vegeta is and takes this threat VERY seriously.
If a guy with a power level of 18,000 can blow up a planet, then Freeza could've had 150,000 and it would still be believable that he could blow up a planet with a finger.
Yeah and that's why power levels are basically a joke once we reached Namek
Toriyama did that because having a million power level makes for an eye-catching chapter name
I think probably 530,000 should've been Freeza's 100% power, not his first form.
What do you think Roshi fighting Goku in the 21st Tenkaichi was if not ki suppression? When he blows up the moon, he has to go all-out physically and do a max-power Kamehameha. Goku and Piccolo's power level increased dramatically when performing their ki attacks against Raditz, and that's not a matter of oh they were just suppressing it. No, his punches were not as strong as his ki blast. None of Goku's punches had anywhere near the effect of that blast. You have indeed demonstrated no one understands power levels.
I think you are wrong with Great Ape Vegeta's power level, If I remember correctly he stated that the artifical moon he used to transfrom is not as effective as a real moon
He states that to make the fale moon it takes a lot of energy and lowers his power level
Goku even mentions feeling him get much weaker
The fake moon makes him lose overall power to create. Not that its less effective than a natural moon
@@MegaMrAlexisthat makes me question - If Goku's dad wasn't a great warrior, how did he have enough energy to develop the fake moon technique that earned his reputation as a brilliant scientist?
You guys should stop using using the anime's dub to source your infos. Not only did it change a lot of stuff for no reason, but they also made some shit up.
Just look at the comment above mine.
@@creativename2567 what do you mean? Goku's dad was clearly a scientist. Just look at the immense IQ Goku displays.
Someone like him would be very capable of noticing things like jokes, which is a rare skill nowadays.
Just look at the comment above mine.
13:28 - Frieza noted that he barely survived the Large Spirit Bomb and he did lose part of his tail as a result not to mention the damage to his head which caused him to have trouble opening his eye!
He lost part of his tail to Krillin cutting it off in Frieza's 2nd form.
They were just part of the story from the Saiyan Saga - Freeza Saga since the Saiyans were part of Freezers henchmen they were given them too but shortly after the story on Namek they lost any meaning so I dont think they should be taken toos seriously.
Greetings from Mars.
That Kaio-Ken segment reminds me...
Why The F*ck
any of other Z-Fighters never learned Kaio-Ken????
I swear this technique was perfect for the side-characters to be relevant again
and momentarily surpass main-characters
while never also undermining importance of the main-characters for Toriyama's leisure.
Everyone and their dog, and even the turtle could have learnt kaio ken from King Kai 😂😂😂
Just like everyone could have learnt instant transmission like most have learnt Kamehameha.
Oh well, plot devices 😂😂😂
0:57 “I don’t take the guidebook power levels too seriously.”
Very well said. I am glad u said it, cuz maaan. Too many fans accept whatever the guidebook says. The reason why that is wrong. As u pointed out. When the Guidebook puts out a Power Level Stat that completely contradicts the events that took place in the Manga & Anime. That power level stat in the guidebook is 100% wrong, a complete contradiction. Outwardly & Openly. Therefore it cannot & should not be utilized at all.
Only Power Level stats that reflect what took place in the Manga & anime are correct and true. As for the DB & DBZ non canon movies. It is perfectly fine to accept whatever p.l. that guidebook places, wrong or not. Bcuz those movies are not canon.
Vegeta was not above 1st form Frieza. After their grappling match Vegeta was sweating while Frieza was calm. He was under 500,000. Frieza only transformed because Vegeta asked him to.
geets wanted to run straight to what he thought was the final boss
@@lordlittletoeq8537 yeah lol
Yeah but what makes it strange is, why did Frieza's scouter break? Ginyu gave Frieza a newer model scouter, and his was more than capable of going over 180,000 because it clocked Goku's. So we can at least safely assume to know Vegeta was at least higher than 180,000, because it's a stretch to think Ginyu would give Frieza a worse scouter model than his. But the next question is.. what scouter did Frieza use to know FOR SURE he's at 530,000? is there a NEWER newer model scouter that nobody has anymore? lol
@@KingLeoAllYear According to one of the guides Vegeta was at 250,000. I could easily see him being upwards of 500,000, but not above 530,000.
@@weeaboo-warrior yea I agree that if he's anything, he's maybe 500,000 max. He spoke more so as if Gohan and himself together have a chance against Frieza, rather than saying he can take him on his own which is more up his alley. If he was higher than 530,000, I'd like to think the text would reflect that. But again it's just strange that if there's a scouter that goes 530,000+, why would the Ginyus not have them/be able to grant Frieza one when they came straight from Planet Frieza.
I don’t think Gohon’s rage boosts aren’t multiplier but add to his base power
the main thing people don't understand about power levels is that they were never supposed to be taken seriously.
that's why since the beginning the scouter readings where innaccurate.
it was basically a short-hand to show the enemies hubris, their overreliance on technology and overconfidence in their natural abilities.
the fact that decades later the fandom is still harping on this point is almost sad, like a bunch of kids repeating a joke they don't understand.
this, lol man, lesson learned never use numbers,
@@meucanal-x8k nah Tori kinda flip flopped between opinions to be fair. He also thought it was useful to convey how strong a new enemy was. Then he realized that it would almost entirely remove tension so he just made them completely unreliable to the point where doubling your PL was easier than gaining a pound at the end of the year. Still, to this day, not a single battle was won 1v1 by a confirmed lower power level opponent. And even the ones that were won and not 1v1 involved some funky "this ups my power level shenanigans" lol. Like Piccolo Makankosappo upping his to over Raditz's
Then after the Frieza Saga, he dropped them entirely........ Only to then bring them back, again, to show how strong a villain was, again, and noticed it robbed the story of tension, again...
what a mindnumbingly braindead statement when the series time and time again proved the accuracy of power levels, nappa vs z fighters, vegeta vs goku, vegeta vs cui, dodoria, zarbon, goku vs ginyu force. Power levels had nothing to do with overconfidence or natural abilities, it was just a tool to communicate power differences because the author was too lazy to keep showing it through feats, and eventually he got lazy with power levels too.
@@drtony1000 if you want you can read the citation above and continue being an abbrasive unpleasant individual.
but what i meant by overconfidence in natural abilities was that none of ETs except Namekians&Sayans ever train/are martial artists.
So to them power levels are a generally static number, something innate that establishes pecking order
But THEN you have martial artists to whom the whole deal is training, developing techniches and applying extra- effort when needed.
To them power levels mean jacksh*t.
That's why all the examples you gave where PLs meant something are of battles where the bad guys start with 'pffft, screw that small puny guy' and end with 'OMG, is power level soooo biiiiiig!'
Because it was a shorthand for enemies, never meant to be applied to the main characters.
But Toriyama could've never predicted the goblins the fandom would generate.
@@drtony1000 «My number-one goal in coming up with [the scouter] was because, if an opponent’s strength could be seen as a number, it would be very easy for the readers to understand when I put it in the comic. However, I could foresee that it’d be an inconvenience for me down the line, because if you knew a concrete number, then you could tell who would win or lose, so with regards to Goku & co., I decided that [their power] would change due to “Ki” and couldn’t be adequately measured.
In addition, it’s a very convenient item to create peril, since with enemies equipped with them, their location could become known, and they could be reported.»
Akira Toriyama 04/04/2014
3:51 I’d say Piccolo @ 329 does not mean Piccolo got Stronger. He was simply wearing a lighter form of his weighted clothes.
This is most likely due to him simply manifesting lighter Armor/ Weighted clothes for reasons only he knows of.
small correction about 18 at 16:00 its been stated multiple times that vegeta and 18 were equal in power level, but the androids having infinite stamina is what ultimately won her the fight
Stated in the show itself or outside of it? Because nobody ever says that in my memory
@@stanleydude3340 in the show and manga its shown that vegeta and 18 take equal damage, however 18 is more level headed due to having equal energy.
I dont remember the exact source but I believe it was an japanese android guide explaining facts about the androids and one of them was about 18 , explaining how in her fight with vegeta they were both equal, but her level headedness and infinite stamina gave her the advantage over him
@@Nalter_In the manga and anime, Vegeta says Piccolo fused with Kami is much stronger than himself. Piccolo fused with Kami is equal to 17 and 17 is a little bit stronger than 18. 18 also says Vegeta was helpless than her. So no, 18 and Vegeta aren’t equals.
@ you can be equal in strength to an opponent in dragon ball but still get washed cause of your mental, 18 was calm while vegeta was slowly getting exhausted, the point of the fight was to showcase 17 & 18s infinite stamina.
Also my main point is that the 18 scaling in this video is way too high, they’re at least relative or 18s slightly stronger
@ I agree the androinds and Piccolo are more strong than they should be compared to the ssj’s but the androinds and piccolo are still significantly stronger than the ssjs at the time as stated by Vegeta himself.
9:32 - Fun Fact: Kaioken Goku's 180,000 power level here is the same as Great Ape Vegeta's maximum Power level (18,000 × 10 = 180,000)!
Roshi literally has a transformed buffed up form that should have a higher power level than his relaxed form
And by that thought process you should infer that kuririn can also supress his powers because we know he's stronger than roshi as he has stated to have been surpassed by him previously so if roshi has a buffed up form that form still needs to be weaker than kuririn
Using gravity training is not a good way to gauge strength. Goku was struggling with 10x gravity meanwhile Saiyan toddlers are chilling in that gravity. It's likely that they're stronger but simply not used to it. That would explain why kid trunks would hit an off guard fat Buu and sent him flying into a mountain. That happened when Buu had Vegeta pinned against the ground. That's more impressive than when Buu had shin pinned down in the same position and a tired Gohan was only able to kick him a few feet back. It also explains why they could fight 18 in base and scare 18 into going for a win via disqualification the second they went ssj instead of even trying to fight them fairly. (They also fought cell jrs while rusty in the super manga)
Fun Fact: Vegeta was supposed to die against Goku but everybody loved him so Tori kept him around, even thouhg Tori didnt like Vegeta
it always felt like DBZ was supposed to end in the frieza saga
The only thing power levels accomplish is making me question how Frieza's scouters work. If you're going to be a galactic dictator at least have some decent technology.
exactly. while exploding scouters was a nice little moment escalator making you as shocked as the other characters, it did make the tech seem very faulty if they blew up when reading certain power levels. especially considering how what was supposed to be another blue milk run for frieza (casually retrieve these items and wish for immortality) escalated into a power level arms race over a matter of DAYS with one warrior after another being stronger than the last or the heroes gaining a boost in overall power (including reinforcements like piccolo or goku) to counter any new threat.
Tbf hardly anyone was at 10 000 or higher and the Ginyu force's scouters were able to withstand powers up to 180 000
I think people just downplay how strong the humans can get ina short period of time
Piccolo 5000 PL is wild, he would have destroyed nappa with 0 help.
Gohan’s power up doesn’t only come from the mystic form but also from training with the z sword that is why his base power would be a lot higher than it was before making the multiplier slightly less significant but still big
Hey bro really nice video you really did a lot of research and calculation for this i was just wondering when will you make super power leveling 😅
bro guessed half the video, so wdym by calculations...
probably at some point, but not for a bit
@@AdvaitGulhaneI mean all calculations about powers scaling are pure guesswork let’s be real
2:18 I feel like the series could've done something really cool here. It's pretty clear that Raditz has *never* seen someone gather their ki like this before, implying that that's just not a thing that happens in Frieza's army.
The implication of this is that in Frieza's army, you don't train to master your ki. Your power level is your power level, there's no changing it, and you are whatever class of soldier the scouters say you are. It gives more depth to the big story beats of early Dragonball that through training and perseverance, you can overcome your status. Power levels actually do not matter.
They didn't do this, of course, because Toriyama forgot how he characterized Raditz in this fight.
27:28 personally i think unlocking ultimate form massively increased his base power also, mainly because that multiplier fucks with my brain lmao
gohan also trained with the z-sword until he could hold it normally, same sword goku considered too heavy for him to swing as easily as gohan could before the getting ultimate
you were right, until super retconned it to a transformation
22:35 videl should have been at 66.6
The only reason goku was struggling to catch the monkey was because he wasn’t use to the gravity yet while the monkey was use to it.
@@mannygomez5213 and also bubbles is smaller making him more agile. Just like struggling to catch a fly doesn't mean the fly is stronger than you there's no evidence Bubbles was stronger than goku although it is possible
That still means Bubbles was stronger to resist the gravity. That's the point of gravity training, to get stronger.
That still means bubble had the muscle to make x10 gravity nothing to him
@@Supahdenning Again he is used to it. Once goku became used to the gravity he easily caught the monkey.
@@mannygomez5213 Yes, once Goku surpassed Bubbles, he caught him. Bubbles was still a lot stronger than Goku when he first reached Kaio's planet.
28:04 the anime was always right as in the manga it was literally stated by Vegeto that going super saiyan was over kill
7:12 1800 thousand is wild
Im so dumb, this isnt even the first time ive miss read that number in a video
I had to pause at this moment too and was like “wait…”.
Now here i am commenting on this too cause i noticed it too
Doing great there bud, lovin' the work.
Ozaru Vegeta would be 180,000 if he transformed from a natural moon(ki loss from the fight so far notwithstanding) but in that particular fight Vegeta transformed via powerball, which dropped his ki to some significant degree. Both Goku and Vegeta mentally comment on the drop as quite significant, so his power level after creating it is unclear but quite a bit lower. The reason it is like this is presumably because it has to burn in the sky for a long time whereas most ki attacks dissipate within seconds.
I think the reason Toriyama dropped power levels is because he himself realised the absurd jumps necessary to make the Freeza fight happen were too stupid and he can't be trusted with using them as a writing tool. We are more easily able to miss or ignore crazy jumps in power later in the series just because the information isn't given to us, but they certainly are still happening.
むかし、この国は深い森におおわれ、そこには太古からの神々がすんでいた
Mukashi, kono kuni wa fukai mori ni ooware, soko ni wa taiko kara no kamigami ga sunde ita.
Il y a très longtemps, ce pays était couvert d’une grande forêt : dans celle-ci vivaient les anciens dieux…
You're underestimating the boost from the 3 year timeskip. It was said before that don't bother showing up unless u can handle mecha frieza. And they all showed up
I dont know if that nessasarily means that, if you trained for 3 years, you would show up too regardless
@@yurazah Chiaotzu didn't show up because he was too weak after the training
@@franciscopereira7798 that doesn't mean it's a statement to be taken completely literally, though. There's absolutely no reason to think Yamcha has surpassed Frieza, yet there he is
It's more like "If you aren't strong enough to stand up to Frieza, you're gonna get wrecked without question"
@@yurazahi personally put them in between half power frieza and base namek goku. Not enough to do damage but strong enough to have their techniques do some damage.
I generally don't like power level videos and all that since it kinda messes everything up usually. But I really liked this one, great video!
The funny part about the Namek Arc is that Super Saiyan was not needed, at all. If Gokū is equal to 50% Freeza with his Kaiōken ×20, adding a full-force Kamehameha would have put Gokū AT LEAST twice as powerful as Freeza, surpassing his 100%.
Gokū Kaiōken ×20 = 60.000.000
Freeza 50% = 60.000.000
Gokū Kaiōken ×20 + Kamehameha = between 120.000.000 and 133.269.230
Generally, some people think Kamehameha is a 2,22 multiplier (or 2,2211538461538461538461538461538 to be precise) because of the Raditts fight (where he jumps from 416 to 924), but the reality is that Raditts stopped counting Gokū's battle power (which was still rising) cause the scouter picked Piccolo's power, which was higher, plus we do know that you can charge a Kamehameha (or any attack, really) for as much as you want, virtually speaking; so a ×2,22 is a plausible multiplier, but not the only one possible.
Although, if we consider that multiplier, specifically, then Gokū's assault on Freeza could have brought him from 60.000.000
up to 133.269.230 (or 133.269.230,76923076923076923076923), which is more than Freeza's Max Power and far more than his 50%.
Attacks like Kamehameha only increase the power level because it's focused onto one point. Kaio-Ken, however, already requires Goku to focus his ki around the whole body to multiply his power. He cannot focus his ki into two places at the same time, because then it wouldn't be focused. Kamehameha is just a flashy attack that unleashes his full power while using the Kaio-Ken, like Vegeta using the Galick Gun in their first fight.
@Cableguy15 that flashy attack is made out of ki, the flashy thing is the reaction it has with the air, is the reason why a leaf catches fire if it gets close to the characters (as seen with Spopovitch) - ignoring the anime that has no consistency with ki - if you look at the manga, low levels of ki makes the air around you hotter, at slightly higher levels, it creates a yellow flame around you, if you concentrate it more creates a red flame, and going further makes it violet. In Super this gets expanded adding different qualities of ki that create different types of auras, from yellow, to red to blue, on regular cases, cyan with angelic ki, violet/magenta with destructive ki. Characters are shown to focus ki on many points, even the Makankosappō focuses ki on two fingers and shoots to different beams: a straight one and a spiraling one. There's the ability to shoot dozens of ki blasts from your whole body, and so on. The source is the same, but you can feed it In multiple points at the same time, it just means you have to burn out more and stay more focused.
This moment is big for me. It's worth noting though, Goku was very badly beaten when he resorted to a x20 Kaioken, having also been using a x10 draining lots of energy. I believe it more likely Goku's power was around 1.5M when he whipped out the KKx20 Kamehameha. This would make for an incredibly surprising attack for Frieza, reaching 66M.
Frieza blocked it with one hand for a simple reason- his original 100% was never meant to be 120M. That was a calculation given AFTER he took the spirit bomb and nearly died. Meaning, his clean 50% was probably around 75-80M, and had he not played torturer, he could have won, even against a Super Saiyan.
3:26 - No it was established during the Raditz fight as Goku and Piccolo were able to raise their power levels by discarding weights and charging ki attacks, which conversely means their power does have a baseline which can be raised or suppressed!
12:00 Laughingstock media made an interesting video about zenkai boosts. They came up with a theory and tried to argue for it. They argued that zenkai boosts focus on the largest power level in proximity around the Saiyan and try to match that number. So, if a Saiyan is on the verge of death against a stronger opponent with a power level of 5 million, and they survive and get a zenkai boost, they will have a power level around or of 5 million. They guess that Vegeta was too early and only managed to detect freiza’s 3rd form power level, rather than the form we see Frieza fight in later. Since dende healed Vegeta before the transformation was complete, Vegeta didn’t get a zenkai boost matching the newer power level. Meanwhile, goku was still healing in the healing pod back at the spacecraft, and was finished after frieza’s transformation, so goku had a zenkai boost more closely matching freiza’s new power level. Of course, since Frieza was still not at full power then, Frieza could still put up a fight against goku at this point.
That’s the running theory that they were thinking in the video, anyways. Whether you want to follow this logic or not is up to you.
I actually believe that theory, in my second real video, I talk about it
@ hell yeah, it makes sense like 85% of the time, if not more
*Logical Inconsistency:* You say Goku and Piccolo's power is lower due to their weighs, then later say that Roshi isn't stronger because you assume he cannot suppress his power level. But he is wearing the weighted turtle shell and you overlook this. The shell is expressly part of his training and it what gives Goku the idea of using weights in the first place.
oh, wow, ive been arguing with people about this for awhile, but your right.... atlest I think, do we ever get proof that roshi is wearing the weighted shell himself?
I'd need to go back and double check and I am busy making part 2 of my dinoking manga. For what its worth, I also hate the power level argument.
A characters "power level" is essentially their energy rating. Like a mana pool in a video game or a spiritual alignment in Asian alchemy (which is what Toyorama based all this on).
The point of Power Levels was to show how utterly meaningless they are. Its another reason Roshi could kick ass in the super manga, because fighting power and experience are essentially "different stats" and not everything is about "Power Level."
But you try explaining that to most people on the internet and they just want to argue with you. Its silliness.
RIP Toyorama.
He didn't wear it when Bulma read his Battle Power.
27:53 its stated in super exciting guide that potara is just A*B, but since there's a rivalry boost (that we don't know) its closer to y = mx+b, where m and x are goku/vegeta's powers, b is the rivalry boost and y is vegito's power level. So, vegito is literally overpowered
Correct! And at any time that Goku and Vegeta can choose the fusion type, Vegito will ALWAYS be stronger than Gogeta, let's now wait for the internet to break 😂😂😂
@@JohnWiku fr its kinda crazy how people genuinely think they're even comparable when vegito blue in the GOKU BLACK ARC was matching (and beating his ass) fused zamasu, whereas our best feat for gogeta is a post tournament of power goku and vegeta fused into him to beat a raging broly (same guy who couldnt even put non-black frieza down after a straight hour of beating him)
What's the power level of King Yenma's mahogany desk?😂
Peak video loved it!!!
1:05 he said over 1200 so he could be 1500 but probably lower other wise Napa would just say he and the Saibamen were at 1500
Yep! To me it's like 1236.
Here is a missconception, Raditz Power Level isnt equal to a Saibaman. This is an mistake with the translation.
yeah it said "rivaled" or something along that lines, so he should be close, but he is above them. He is still arguably below 1,300 though since a special beam cannon in the 1,300s killed him.
No Nappa clarifies that the Saivaibaiman are equal Raditsu if power is the only consideration. Implying he would defeat them through other means.
and that is what i despise about power levels. it sucks the hype out of a scenario with either mistranslations or numbers that just sound meaningless, especially since we know the heroes are going to win somehow or some day. the way most villains were written, the power levels are redundant, anyway. other details about certain characters told you all you needed to know. example: vegeta as a prince and elite warrior was naturally one of the strongest saiyans, but he rivaled cui before his time on earth. and cui was made clear to be weaker than zarbon or dodoria, frieza's aides/enforcers. then there is the saiyans being vassals to frieza and his father. plus, gero's androids were designed to drain ki energy (vital for beating tough enemies) and were able to go toe-to-toe with goku. plus, cell was built from the DNA of the galaxy's greatest warriors and he can grow stronger from absorbing others, including his android "siblings". all these details help highlight the aproximate power hierarchy of the series WITHOUT using some rediculous measurement. we all know the next foe is either going to be stronger than the last or have some quality (such as energy drain or time manipulation) that levels the playing field a bit.
@@weeaboo-warrior Small nitpick but the 1,330 missed. Raditz was hit by the 1,440.
What makes you right is Gohan's headbutt at 1,370 had Raditz reeling bad.
@ the 1,440 number is from the anime not the manga
And things just get even sillier from there, like the sheer power that those random freiza grunts that the z fighters held off in the movie have to have scaled way higher than frieza at this galactic empire prime.
there's a lot to disagree with here 1st you completely ignored the statement that gurus potential unlock works over time and gohan and krillins full power came out in the battle with frieza not the ginyu force 2nd after future trunks kills frieza and cold piccolo tells the whole cast "if you are not at least strong enough to deal with frieza by the time of the androids don't bother showing up" and yamcha tien and krillin all show up but not chiaoutzu who as stated by tien was not strong enough for this fight and piccolo has no problem with their presence meaning they are all bare minimum equal to mecha frieza and king cold this is also supported by the androids actually thinking yamcha was goku based on his power reading and they had data on frieza and cold
How can we if Toryama (RIP) wasn't good at the power level thing in the first place.
Toriyama massively shot himself in the foot making the farmer's power level a 5, it meant every single power level from og db had to fit inside the range 5-416, there are several times someone states goku or some other character has become several times stronger but their "official" power level goes up by like 20%
Okay but you don’t get it it’s farmer with a shotgun and farmer with a shotgun is absolutely od
It also makes Earth feel so pathetic. Piccolo Daimao is weaker than literally every single person in the universe outside of Earth it feels like, but Earth was helpless against him. I praise Dr. Gero for making Earth the top dog
The absorption of humans to hugely boost Cell's power is actually very consistent. He feeds on the lifeforce of living beings he absorbs, and it's actually the same power Goku uses for the Genki-dama, and we all know how humanity's joint efforts produced a spirit bomb nearly powerful enough to disintegrate Majin Buu completely
You say things like "Eighteen-hundred-thousand" then show "180,000" lol.
During Z and GT the fusion dance and potara are fighter times fighter not fighter plus fighter multiple tens of times
1:05 “No Raditz at 1,500 as Nappa clearly said he was at 1,200.”
Thank you Bro!!! You just Don’t know how good it is to listen to somebody who embraces the Manga (DBZ) & Anime (DBZ KAI) over a n extremely flawed Guidebook.
2:47 “But he’ll be back in time for the Saiyan Attack”
He really wasn’t though. The fact that he was not back in time for the Saiyan Attack is actually a huge plot point.
you know, I think I was gonna have a visual gag about that when I put that line in the script, then forgot
I think that, from a narrative perspective, pre-majin SSJ2 Vegeta is supposed to be stronger than super perfect cell and the same goes for SSJ2 Goku of course but maybe not for adult SSJ2 Gohan since he was slacking off. This is because Vegeta was confident he had surpassed Gohan and wanted to test himself against Goku in the buu arc and he must have meant the strongest version of Gohan he had sensed (pre-injury SSJ2 teen Gohan) . So, either base Vegeta ( and obviously base Goku) in the buu arc should be stronger or SSJ2 teen Gohan and super perfect Cell should be weaker. Other than that, I generally agree.
I don't think Cell's power level increasing as much as it did from absorbing humans is that insane. If the average person's power level is about 5, that means he would have just killed 240 million people to get to the level that he was at. I know we mostly only focus on a few cities in Dragonball, but it is an Earth-like planet with likely many cities. If we assume a population anything similar to Earth, that means all Cell did was kill a third of a percentage of all people, which is a huge number and would justify his incredible infamy.
1:58 nephew 💀💀
Well yea, Goku and Raditz are brothers.
@@jatman9556 Yeah ik. I thought he meant Gohan is Goku’s Nephew lol.
Yeah that was wierd wording, also he says the farmer died which he did not.
How to gain a massive power level boost: push-ups, sit-ups, and plenty of juice.
I still think the only reason potara fusion is stronger than metamoran fusion is because of the metamoran fusion's requirement of needing both the participants to be of the same power level.
So if goten was 95,000 and trunks was 108,000:
- metamoran fusion would be (95000 x 2) x 2500 (x1.5 for training) for 715,500,000 as in the video.
- potara fusion would be (95000 + 108000 ) x 2500 (x1.5 for training) for 761,250,000.
Ofc the 2500 number can be adjusted to be much lower if we consider that goten and trunks got much more than just 50% stronger.
If there is indeed a constant multiplier after an addition then it should be possible to get as close to that number by using ui sign goku's power level/multiplier and kefla's power level. Base cabba was 'supposedly' as strong base vegeta who would be fucking insane power levels but that's besides the point. So that means base caulifla who was probably not THAT stronger than cabba being added with base kale who also wasn't strong as caulifla? times a multiplier then using kale's transformation multiplier on top of that is lower than ui sign. And ui sign is 60x above blue. All that is garbage coz blue's multiplier is insane (as it's linked to ssg). This would bring that number up to the levels of ssg multipliers which is waaay more than 2500 so this doesn't help at all. tldr: This wot was pointless.
(The better option is to just wait for the 'No One Understands Power Levels In Dragon Ball Super' video xD)
why 2500?
I like how in the early manga of Z, Raditz an alien from outer space with no prior knowledge of earth, actually knows what Ki is, and talks about it as if he's always known. So this implies either that the aliens know what Ki is and that's fine, or that Toriyama slipped up. But that's not all, despite maybe knowing what Ki is, being able to harness and control it in a myriad of complex ways, the aliens are far far behind on the depth of knowledge about Ki, which is just kind of funny to me.
23:14
Underestimating those two. Together they were pressing him android 18
maybe, but I like the gavity scale more, and I could argue shes impressed like piccolo was, but that didnt mean they were on her level
@@yurazah she had to dodge trunks's ki blast and mentionned how fast and powerful that unnamed blast was. hell, goten even tells trunk to not use full power when he fires it
@@vibinglurker5872 Means nothing, 18 can still be impressed by their power even if she's stronger.
@vadosu4521 alright let's use a second example, shortly after unlocking ssj, trunks is challenged by vegeta to hit him once, which he then proceed to surprise, pressure and then scrape ssj vegeta, unless you want to say he pulled a super goku and held all the way back to base goku against frieza level.
@@vibinglurker5872 Vegeta still wasn't going all out though, it's his son afterall
How do you see a panel of Trunks WILDLY swinging a sword with both his arms, and Goku effortlessly blocking it with a single finger and think "Hmmm, I'm not sure who this scene was trying to convey to be stronger here, I'm going to scale them to be equal."
@@HomeCookinMTG afterwards goku says he knows trunks wasn't going all out
No dude, vegeta even states that goku and himself were stronger than gohan when he faced cell
I think the two sides of boo are stronger combined than before boo split but weaker than super boo.
Wait why is he called super boo and not something like majin boo or hole boo?
But one random TH-camr certainly can.
its true, I'm the one
We went from 50,000-90,000 Vegeta and Goku to a 500,000 Gohan because of a zen Kai boost and 1 millie for anger boost. WHAT!
That's just what the numbers end up at in terms of gohan scaling to his opponents, and somewhat consistently gohan gets 2x stronger from his rage boosts, with some exceptions like the first time
I loved the original so I’ve been waiting for this one. It’s pretty fun to go through the history of the series and sort the the little details I may have missed or forgot
Edit- at 25m 18s, weren’t goku and Vegeta both in super Saiyan 2 though?
Ahaha, Raditz steals Goku's nephew lmao. 😂😂