It’s always the same when someone gets a really good idea, other people just takes the basic idea and runs with it Revolver,bolt action, lever action etc It’s pretty cool looking back at how they got started and what has come before
Kind of remarkable how three competitors, Mauser, Bergmann, and Mannlicher all ended up producing pistols in just roughly the same design. Sure, there are still plenty of functional differences in the designs but to the uninitiated if you put the three next to each other, one might conclude they were all iterations of the same design.
At this time, pistols were mostly considered cavalry weapons, which supplemented the primary arm, the saber. That's why the Cold SAA and other military weapons were designed for left-hand use.
Ooh, good point. Somehow I own both handguns and swords (and shoot lefty and sword righty) and completely forgot that. Cf. the early cartridge revolvers like the Colt 1876 SAA, with the loading gate on the right. Does anybody make modern-style lefty revolvers? Like swing-out cylinder type?
I really love pistols who have their magazine in front of the trigger guard. I know they're not really practical but the design just kind of gets to me.
But not as a youtube "annotation" because some of us disable these. Also, maybe it'd be more of a bother to Ian to actually create the little text box and put it on top of the video images, than just saying it out loud. In any way, thanks again for the fact that you do mention both, Ian, it is very kind :)
I think these pistols are among the best looking style of design among all of the automatic era pistols, if not the best looking pistol of all time. It's such a shame that because of the Mauser C96 and the M712's enormous success, the Mannlicher is instead so rare it's not even avalable as a model cap fireing replica version like the Mauser is. I own two cap fireing model Mauser C96 firearms... One of them is a japanes Marushin M712, and the other one is a carbine version of the C96 made by Hudson in 1979. But these Mannlicher are such cool guns, but they are not even being made. That is extremely unfortunate, even to that degree it's beyond words. Because i'm sure there would be so many potential customers for a model version, and still we have seen nothing. If they let's say, CAW began to make a commercial model version of the Mannlicher, the market could begin to grow. Maybe they have started over in Japan, but here in old good Europe, they are so rare it's are basically impossible to find a cap fireing/dummy round version of it.
any particular reason why civilian sling swivels differ from military style ones? Wouldn't you as a civilian want the same comfort of the gun flat against your back?
I love your videos Ian but it would be great if you could show an actual old cartridge or if not available or safe to do a picture of one. I think most people would find the cartridges just as interesting as the firearms themselves. Thanks.
Don't know why these didn't sell well (very ergonomic, easy to use controls, easy to disassemble and a potent cartridge) I know I would have deffinetly bought one over a Mauser c-96 (I love the c-96 but it's a little bit awkward) the capacity is a problem though...
With the cocking lever on the right side how awkward would the pistol be for right handed people. Do you think that would have been a factor sales wise?
These are almost awesome. The disassembly is very easy with large unit parts. That is a major plus compared to most competitive options at that time. Detachable magazine is a major plus. Now, 6 round magazine? Why? We have the room there. We have the room for more rounds, and more rounds is better, so why have standard revolver capacity? Also, the carbines look awesome but holding onto the for-end can jam the weapon. That is not going to fly except maybe for small game hunting where if it jams, that is not the end of the world.
I'm only amazed that this designer managed develop these dead-end designs as long as he did. I'm guessing the main reason was to get around established patents.
I wish these older/rarer guns were easier or cheaper to come by. There should be a company that reproduces these as accurately as possible. Obviously it would be kinda expensive anyways, but easier to find for fans of the gun.
Superb video BUT YOUR MISSING MY MODEL! My great grandfathers 1903? Civilian carbine. Serial 46X. This has the original folding 2 position rear flip sight which is pretty rare considering more carbines where 1901 south American export models. Also has the typical Civilian front sling mount. . I just need an original rear full length stock. My great grandfather in Germany used it for poaching so he had thr stock cut down into a pistol grip to carry concealed. I'd love to find someone qualified to make an exact duplicate. Also ammo is an issue. I'm thinking about using .30 mauser rounds and pulling some propellant out to proper specs. Thanks for reading. Oli klaas in Ontario
These are sure cool, but I can't help but think that their low popularity might be due to their miserable magazine capacity, Mauser gate you 10 or even 20 shots, these give 7 at best. That carbine could have really been something with a 30-round "Banana Clip" magazine and maybe select fire. Great weapon for house-to-house and as a PDW.
is it just me or do all early automatics have tiny almost unusable sights? it's off subject but if you don't mind answering a question Ian, I was watching a vid on Jeff Quitney's channel a couple weeks ago on escape and evasion, it looked like it was late 40's early 50's with a bomber crew as the subject, anyway they showed a .22 rifle with a collapsible wire stock on it, would you happen to know what it might have been it's been bugging me since I saw the vid and I can't find anything on issued survival rifles from that time period.
That right side hammer looks like it'd be awkward for someone right handed. But then again if it was on the left it'd be awkward to carry on your hip if you're right handed
based on yoir grip and the location of the cocker it appears that the gun is designed to be shot left handed. is that the case or is the video flipped?
Every time I see those early automatic pistols I keep thinking they were just one administrative decision away from an early adoption of an assault rifle.
Is there a particular reason that the cocking lever seems to be on the wrong side? Assuming it, like all guns, was made for right-handed people predominantly, I'd expect to see it on the left side where one could reach it with their thumb. You had no problem, being left handed, but cocking the pistol when it's in your right hand just seems very awkward.
Yae, unto the wrong-handed companions of Gun Jesus, birthed were the Mannlicher Model 1896 Pistols. Ian (and Karl if you are on here), do you have any experience with 7.62x45 Czech?
When the loading gate, safety catch or cocking lever falls almost exactly where the thumb of the left hand would rests it seems a bit obvious that the designer most likely was left handed.
Lovely gun! I'd only ever heard of the 1896 model though. By the way, I'm Ian too! Often represented as a fully automatic weapon, I think the Chinese later built one?
Is there a reason for behind the placement of that right side mounted cocking lever? These pistols should have taken ambidexterity into consideration given the fact that most of the population is right handed.
If it has a locking wedge, how can it be considered a straight blowback pistol? Then we come to how Mannlicher could have greatly simplified everything with such a weak cartridge by simply increasing bolt mass and making it a straight blowback..
Forgotten Weapons to be fair, "million" is French too, but I don't pronounce it "mee-yon". That being said, I don't understand why the person above took issue. We all understand what you're talking about.
"Why are you dodging? They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." - Gen. John Sedgwick (Sept. 13, 1813 - May 8, 1864), speaking too soon on May 8, 1864
True, but the sentiment is the same. :) I kind of love how charmingly optimistic _all_ tangent sights seem to be. I've got an SMLE with a tangent sight that goes out to 2,000 yards, which... I mean, that's more than a mile. I have no doubt that .303 British can theoretically be effective at that range, but can you even _see_ a man a mile away with the naked eye, let alone hit him with an iron-sighted rifle? I'm pretty sure I can't.
OMG that's enough of the Bergmann shit he's a collector. people who are actually into this field love having every model. they love looking at them holding them cleaning them. Ian nerds out over this stuff I'm glad he enjoys his work and the Bergmann videos are great for the people the site was originally made for not just for people watching youtube
you seam to see a fair few of these older pistols with windage adjustable sights, is that really a problem for a gun like that? I wouldn't think they'd be effective at the sorta range where wind would come into play, or am i miss understanding the term?
Entonces el manlincher fué creado primero antes que la Mauser c96...??? Incluso tiene rasgos que la Mauser tiene en los relieves del cuerpo del arma...o sea...Mauser copió esos diseños..!!!
the Mannlicher pistols are really interesting from the construction perspective. i like the way they are constructed and they are function. btw: your pronunciation of the name Mannlicher is not really understandable or even correct for a german - sorry. (it is better spoken as munlisher, where as the sh is spoken very soft)
Source, Goggle Translate. Translations of männlichadjectivemalemännlich, Männer-manlymännlich, mannhaftvirilemännlich, viril, kraftvoll, robust, ausdrucksvollmasculinemännlich, maskulin, stumpfmannishmännlich, männlich wirkend These handguns are some of the most Wonderfully complex Teutonic creations.
Also don't forget that you usually don't need to recock so you can get better follow up shots, also no cylinder gap. I'm more wondering why they almost never made bigger magazines early on - propably because for the civilian marked it was not required and the military was to worried about logistics if their soliders had too much ammo at hand. (see all those Magazin cutoffs at that time)
I don't think it's about logistics, I guess it's all about the prejudice (based on the usage experience of the earlier magazine-fed firearms) that bigger magazines were not that reliable causing jams and misfires.
Генрих Восьмой the military were quite concerned with supplying ammunition and that proved to be a major concern in both Ww1 and WW2 vor various nations - one to have the production capacity and another the transport capacity for munitions. Also their tactics where pretty much at the technology level of the napoleonic wars as well as the expection that battles would be fought at extreme distances with the new rifles possible combat ranges....
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
Mannlicher pistols, also known by the alternative title of "Bergmann 2: Electric Boogaloo"
DROP IT!!! WKWKWKWK
Mauser, Bergmann, mannlicher, they all look basically identical.
It’s always the same when someone gets a really good idea, other people just takes the basic idea and runs with it
Revolver,bolt action, lever action etc
It’s pretty cool looking back at how they got started and what has come before
Kind of remarkable how three competitors, Mauser, Bergmann, and Mannlicher all ended up producing pistols in just roughly the same design. Sure, there are still plenty of functional differences in the designs but to the uninitiated if you put the three next to each other, one might conclude they were all iterations of the same design.
I mean have you seen pistols nowadays where the basic shape and design is almost always the same
@@iharpo9292 and they rarely change the mechanics
There is only so much a firearm can be
Same milieu, inspirations, mutual influence, etc...
a really well designed if ultimately unsuccessful gun, 3 piece disassembly seems pretty impressive
Maybe it would be interesting, how guns evolved metalurgicaly, differences in materials and such. I really like those carabines though.
At this time, pistols were mostly considered cavalry weapons, which supplemented the primary arm, the saber. That's why the Cold SAA and other military weapons were designed for left-hand use.
Ooh, good point. Somehow I own both handguns and swords (and shoot lefty and sword righty) and completely forgot that. Cf. the early cartridge revolvers like the Colt 1876 SAA, with the loading gate on the right.
Does anybody make modern-style lefty revolvers? Like swing-out cylinder type?
Given the position of the cocking lever on these, they actually appear to be well designed for lefties. I'm sure Ian appreciates that touch.
I really love pistols who have their magazine in front of the trigger guard. I know they're not really practical but the design just kind of gets to me.
I really like the sporting carbine. Wish they could make them today.
So... it seems red table collector has a "problem" with early autmatic pistols. Not only a Bergmann junkie, but also a Mannlicher one?
Rodrigo Seoane dude knows what he likes.
BergMANN, LauMANN and MANNlicher
The Mann trilogy
I do like/ prefer these old turn of the last century weapons, than todays offering. Nice interesting vid.
you should put a little text box with the numbers in metric and imperial on the screen so you don't have to say it twice everytime
But not as a youtube "annotation" because some of us disable these.
Also, maybe it'd be more of a bother to Ian to actually create the little text box and put it on top of the video images, than just saying it out loud.
In any way, thanks again for the fact that you do mention both, Ian, it is very kind :)
they..uh...look like Mauser C96s..
Based on the location of the cocking handle, the gun seems set-up for left-handed use. is that right?
It is interesting that the takedown is so well thought out, while the hand guard was so poorly thought out.
What a cute little magazine the sweetest one I've yet seen :).
The one with the holster/shoulder stock is so steampunk!.
It screws with my eyes how modern the carbine versions look.
I think these pistols are among the best looking style of design among all of the automatic era pistols, if not the best looking pistol of all time. It's such a shame that because of the Mauser C96 and the M712's enormous success, the Mannlicher is instead so rare it's not even avalable as a model cap fireing replica version like the Mauser is. I own two cap fireing model Mauser C96 firearms... One of them is a japanes Marushin M712, and the other one is a carbine version of the C96 made by Hudson in 1979. But these Mannlicher are such cool guns, but they are not even being made. That is extremely unfortunate, even to that degree it's beyond words. Because i'm sure there would be so many potential customers for a model version, and still we have seen nothing. If they let's say, CAW began to make a commercial model version of the Mannlicher, the market could begin to grow. Maybe they have started over in Japan, but here in old good Europe, they are so rare it's are basically impossible to find a cap fireing/dummy round version of it.
any particular reason why civilian sling swivels differ from military style ones?
Wouldn't you as a civilian want the same comfort of the gun flat against your back?
A rare example of a gun designed for left-handed people. Interesting.
I actually really like the idea behind that cocking piece.
I love your videos Ian but it would be great if you could show an actual old cartridge or if not available or safe to do a picture of one. I think most people would find the cartridges just as interesting as the firearms themselves. Thanks.
Don't know why these didn't sell well (very ergonomic, easy to use controls, easy to disassemble and a potent cartridge) I know I would have deffinetly bought one over a Mauser c-96 (I love the c-96 but it's a little bit awkward) the capacity is a problem though...
With the cocking lever on the right side how awkward would the pistol be for right handed people. Do you think that would have been a factor sales wise?
These are almost awesome. The disassembly is very easy with large unit parts. That is a major plus compared to most competitive options at that time. Detachable magazine is a major plus. Now, 6 round magazine? Why? We have the room there. We have the room for more rounds, and more rounds is better, so why have standard revolver capacity? Also, the carbines look awesome but holding onto the for-end can jam the weapon. That is not going to fly except maybe for small game hunting where if it jams, that is not the end of the world.
Absolutely love those carbines!
I'm only amazed that this designer managed develop these dead-end designs as long as he did. I'm guessing the main reason was to get around established patents.
I wish these older/rarer guns were easier or cheaper to come by. There should be a company that reproduces these as accurately as possible. Obviously it would be kinda expensive anyways, but easier to find for fans of the gun.
Ignoring the hand guard flaw, those carbines are very cool little guns.
Superb video BUT YOUR MISSING MY MODEL! My great grandfathers 1903? Civilian carbine. Serial 46X. This has the original folding 2 position rear flip sight which is pretty rare considering more carbines where 1901 south American export models. Also has the typical Civilian front sling mount. . I just need an original rear full length stock. My great grandfather in Germany used it for poaching so he had thr stock cut down into a pistol grip to carry concealed. I'd love to find someone qualified to make an exact duplicate. Also ammo is an issue. I'm thinking about using .30 mauser rounds and pulling some propellant out to proper specs. Thanks for reading. Oli klaas in Ontario
That cocking lever looks very awkward for a nightie. No?
These are sure cool, but I can't help but think that their low popularity might be due to their miserable magazine capacity, Mauser gate you 10 or even 20 shots, these give 7 at best. That carbine could have really been something with a 30-round "Banana Clip" magazine and maybe select fire. Great weapon for house-to-house and as a PDW.
no Swiss army knife Ian ? Especially with Swiss gun ,I know you don't want to scratch them ,I found popsicle sticks are handy too.
Ean you have the best job on the planet Earth.
is it just me or do all early automatics have tiny almost unusable sights? it's off subject but if you don't mind answering a question Ian, I was watching a vid on Jeff Quitney's channel a couple weeks ago on escape and evasion, it looked like it was late 40's early 50's with a bomber crew as the subject, anyway they showed a .22 rifle with a collapsible wire stock on it, would you happen to know what it might have been it's been bugging me since I saw the vid and I can't find anything on issued survival rifles from that time period.
That right side hammer looks like it'd be awkward for someone right handed. But then again if it was on the left it'd be awkward to carry on your hip if you're right handed
Wish I had money those carbines look nice.
Ian is clearly misprouncing Mannlicher as to not suffer the indignity of sounding cheeky.
Incredible gun for how old it is.
based on yoir grip and the location of the cocker it appears that the gun is designed to be shot left handed. is that the case or is the video flipped?
Every time I see those early automatic pistols I keep thinking they were just one administrative decision away from an early adoption of an assault rifle.
I'm surprised that design didn't survive. I kind of like internal, charger-loaded magazines too.
wow, nice! never seen one in "real live"... only in books. Thumbs up!
If the forend on the carbines wasn't so grip finniky for reliability, they probably would've been quite good varmint guns in their day.
E o pai das pistolas pra mim não sabia que em 1896 já tinha esse modelo de carregar por baixo.
Is there a particular reason that the cocking lever seems to be on the wrong side? Assuming it, like all guns, was made for right-handed people predominantly, I'd expect to see it on the left side where one could reach it with their thumb. You had no problem, being left handed, but cocking the pistol when it's in your right hand just seems very awkward.
Yae, unto the wrong-handed companions of Gun Jesus, birthed were the Mannlicher Model 1896 Pistols.
Ian (and Karl if you are on here), do you have any experience with 7.62x45 Czech?
Hot damn, a European adjustable pistol sight that doesn't go out to a kilometer. What a concept
with that cocking handle are they made for left handed?
Lasse Langwadt Christensen it looks terribly awkward for a right handed shooter.
When the loading gate, safety catch or cocking lever falls almost exactly where the thumb of the left hand would rests it seems a bit obvious that the designer most likely was left handed.
To borrow right-handed phrasing, "just learn to shoot it the correct way".
Lovely gun! I'd only ever heard of the 1896 model though. By the way, I'm Ian too! Often represented as a fully automatic weapon, I think the Chinese later built one?
Is there a reason for behind the placement of that right side mounted cocking lever? These pistols should have taken ambidexterity into consideration given the fact that most of the population is right handed.
If it has a locking wedge, how can it be considered a straight blowback pistol? Then we come to how Mannlicher could have greatly simplified everything with such a weak cartridge by simply increasing bolt mass and making it a straight blowback..
where were the proof marks on the carbine from? The military version didn't seem to have them?
The cocking lever looks more convenient for left handed than right handed shooting. Do you have any idea why it was done that way?
It was often used on horseback. The rider would carry the pistol in the left hand and a saber in the right.
The carbine is sweet looking
Wow! Beautiful!
You probably would love the historic weapons room at Steyr Mannlicher: www.steyr-mannlicher.com/wp-content/themes/steyr-mannlicher/img/company-7.png
some times industrial design interferes with mechanical engineering, to bad for the carbines, they are beautiful, but useless
Would this basic design work with 7.62 tokerav ammo
Why they put the hammer handle in the right side? It doesn't fit right handers at all
So that it's on the outside in a right-handed holster.
What's a car bean? 😆
Considering the French origin or the word, the better question would be, what is a car-byne?
Forgotten Weapons to be fair, "million" is French too, but I don't pronounce it "mee-yon". That being said, I don't understand why the person above took issue. We all understand what you're talking about.
Because he's British?
Is teasing foreign to you guys or something? Or is it considered alternative mocking now?
I'm sure the Garand family finds it very compelling that randos on the Internet think pronouncing their name the way they do "sounds stupid as hell".
If most Smith's were blacksmiths, and most Cooper's were barrel makers, I wonder what the mannlicker's did back in the day? 🤣😋
I always love a good Mannlicher, I hope to marry one someday... 🤣😂😎
they are really simular to the mauser broomhandel
The controls may be OK for Ian but for those of us who are right handed that cocking lever looks too damned awkward.
really great video, good job :)
400m from a pistol? You'd have trouble hitting the side of a barn at that range.
"Why are you dodging? They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."
- Gen. John Sedgwick (Sept. 13, 1813 - May 8, 1864), speaking too soon on May 8, 1864
He was famously underestimating the effective range of rifles...
Chlorate propably only ever used a musket himself... 😉
True, but the sentiment is the same. :)
I kind of love how charmingly optimistic _all_ tangent sights seem to be. I've got an SMLE with a tangent sight that goes out to 2,000 yards, which... I mean, that's more than a mile. I have no doubt that .303 British can theoretically be effective at that range, but can you even _see_ a man a mile away with the naked eye, let alone hit him with an iron-sighted rifle? I'm pretty sure I can't.
Someone with telescopes for eyes perhaps!
I imagine it's an early form of marketing BS
great , thanks
Are there any videos of this being fired?
OMG that's enough of the Bergmann shit he's a collector. people who are actually into this field love having every model. they love looking at them holding them cleaning them. Ian nerds out over this stuff I'm glad he enjoys his work and the Bergmann videos are great for the people the site was originally made for not just for people watching youtube
you seam to see a fair few of these older pistols with windage adjustable sights, is that really a problem for a gun like that? I wouldn't think they'd be effective at the sorta range where wind would come into play, or am i miss understanding the term?
Windage can also mean the gun's own tendency to hit left or right, in my understanding
Haapa cheers man that now makes a hell of a lot more sence, never thot about that at all
Männlicher literally means manly when translated into english. How cool is that?
***** You can also say "Ein männlicher Mann", wich is indeed the positiv. Are you german, too? :D
Yeah but it sounds like man licker, which doesn't sound so manly
Those teeny weenie magazines are adorable.
How does the Carbines feel when you shoot them?
Ian whose collection is this? A personal friend or viewer?
👍 excellent, thank you!
The Gilgamesh of handguns.
So these guns are all left-handed
this should be put in hunt:showdown
I want those carbines in red dead 2
400 meters ? Wishful thinking. *BGM.41
Entonces el manlincher fué creado primero antes que la Mauser c96...???
Incluso tiene rasgos que la Mauser tiene en los relieves del cuerpo del arma...o sea...Mauser copió esos diseños..!!!
seems pretty ancient and austrian at the same time
when u got so many available to you, gotta take advantage of it. I'm in it for the history more than just the engineering porn.
the Mannlicher pistols are really interesting from the construction perspective. i like the way they are constructed and they are function. btw: your pronunciation of the name Mannlicher is not really understandable or even correct for a german - sorry. (it is better spoken as munlisher, where as the sh is spoken very soft)
Source, Goggle Translate.
Translations of männlichadjectivemalemännlich, Männer-manlymännlich, mannhaftvirilemännlich, viril, kraftvoll, robust, ausdrucksvollmasculinemännlich, maskulin, stumpfmannishmännlich, männlich wirkend
These handguns are some of the most Wonderfully complex Teutonic creations.
Broomhandle's grampa
go in indonesian or another country ptrs or anti tank rifle
It looks like a mauser c96, and it was released the same year. Coincidence? I think not.
I'm saying this before I watch the video.
Coincidence? Almost certainly.
Unfortunately she is only a Mannlicher on my birthday.... 😎🤣
What is the point of having such a large, front heavy pistol if your capacity is only 6 rounds? How is this any advantage over a revolver?
HaqqAttak Well, it's magazine-fed and that's quite an advantage
Faster reload and faster cycling to the next round (better rate of fire) compared to the revolvers.
Also don't forget that you usually don't need to recock so you can get better follow up shots, also no cylinder gap.
I'm more wondering why they almost never made bigger magazines early on - propably because for the civilian marked it was not required and the military was to worried about logistics if their soliders had too much ammo at hand. (see all those Magazin cutoffs at that time)
I don't think it's about logistics, I guess it's all about the prejudice (based on the usage experience of the earlier magazine-fed firearms) that bigger magazines were not that reliable causing jams and misfires.
Генрих Восьмой the military were quite concerned with supplying ammunition and that proved to be a major concern in both Ww1 and WW2 vor various nations - one to have the production capacity and another the transport capacity for munitions.
Also their tactics where pretty much at the technology level of the napoleonic wars as well as the expection that battles would be fought at extreme distances with the new rifles possible combat ranges....
sos
FIRST!
Damn it! Second!
fuck i'm early.