Also, your telling of the Niels Bjorgum story is hilarious. I know you don't intend to be a comedian but your delivery can be perfect. I just about lost it when you got to, "Neither one of these barrels is for a cartridge that actually exists...which is a problem..."
It was kinda hilarious to translate the source material xD Best letter in the whole thing: "The factory has by now for over a year developed a countless amount of parts. These will be very instructive to illustrate what one with skilled workers and modern machines can make out of steel, but the factory has other and better use of its machines and people than making such weirdness.."
Very insightful. Tragic that there was no public request to develop a service pistol through some announcement in Norway if it was really such a desired and necessary item. It would have been interesting to see some of the other alternatives that might have been built.
My bad "Colt, browning, parabellum, roth, mannlicher and mauser" Are mentioned. It was mentioned during the testing of Bjørgums m/1911 version that there was also 3 other Norwegian designs tested. But the names are not mentioned. I suppose one has to dig into the actual reports to find those.
So basically, the "safety" on this thing, is actually more dangerous then not having a safety? This thing is an example of why the Chinese Mystery Pistols aren't actually that bad.
I am Norwegian and have spent some time now reading trough our parliment logs from this period (1903-1937). I am absolutely stunned that you have this information. How do you research this? Some additional information: Niels Bjoergum (Norwegian: Nils Bjørgum) recieved funding in 1905 to produce 3 prototype pistols and 3 prototype selfloading rifles. Actually he recieved funding twice as he spent the first funding without completing anything. He was closed down at Kongsberg in 1915 due to the first world war and funded his endevours trough his private company during the war. The intention was that one would consider to commence production once a normal situation at the factory returned. From this point on there is no mention of the pistols as I have found, they were probably deemed useless. However the prototype selfloading rifles have been mentioned a lot. As the war drew to a close Nils tried to get back into the factory but a technical committe deemed that no results had been produced so far and shut the project down. By 1920 Nils had pleaded to the parliament to overturn the decision. Here it is noted that a millitary committee argued that due to the large investment of public money thrown into the project, one should throw more money at it until it gave results. Nils must have made some really good friends in that committee. The parliament decided to trust the technical committees decision and did not overturn their decision to stop the project. I found evidence as late as 1937 where Nils again tried to commence work on his selfloading rifle, so he obviously didnt forget his past as a.. well.. his past attempt at beeing a gun designer..
Donna Sachs Not being any kind of fan boy, but the P-51 analogy won't fly, so to speak. The world's best pilot in a P-51 isn't going to get anywhere near a modern fighter aircraft to even try to have a fair fight. Somebody who knows how to use a 1911, OTOH, can easily still win a handgun fight with someone armed with the most 'modern' pistol. Being outdated is a relative thing.
Obsolescent would be the more accurate term. Obsolete implies it would not be a viable service weapon at all in the present age whereas obsolescent suggests that there are better alternatives available today but it would still give a very good account of itself. Personally, I don't think it is even obsolescent. There is really nothing about a 1911a1 that is seriously limiting compared to "modern" handguns.
Well, compared to anything modern, the M1911 does seem a bit obsolete. It's big, has a low ammunition capacity, is single action, and heavy. I didn't mention anything about the ammunition, as many modern pistols use .45 ACP. However, it has excellent ergonomics and a solid locking system, which is copied on virtually every modern pistol.
Really its only practical drawback is its limited magizine capasity, which for millitary application, is an easy thing to fix. USMC just readopted a m1911 variant with a double stack magizine
This is admittedly a nerdy thing that only I'm into; but I would be interested in the history of stripper clips, speed loaders, etc. I think the evolution of reloading tech would be cool.
Being a Norwegian I am quite embarrassed that something that flimsy and bad came out of Kongsberg Arms. It looks like mr. Bjorgum has worked in a corner of his own and not taking any help or advice from anyone who worked at the Kongsberg Arms.
Nothing to be embarrassed for. Bjørgum did his best, and there's no stamps from Kongsberg våpenfabrikk (as far as I could see), so they did not approve it on any way. The gun commision tested it as little as possible, but still enough to satisfy the government. And by the way, if you look at the later stuff Kongsberg våpenfabrikk made, then you can start to be embarrassed. No finesse at all.
It really feels like there's something missing from the back of the pistol. A cover, something to keep the action from sliding when reloading. Him having presented incomplete guns for actual trials, I would not be surprised... But I do applaud the desire to make something of his own, and not just settle for... perfectly working solutions. Well.
I honestly don't know how they got through the effort of loading 16 rounds, much less firing 16 rounds through what looks like the most fragile handgun ever made.
SonsOfLorgar I have seen worst, It might be on the top ten list of the worst. but at least no Norweigan fells hurt and try to explain that it´s good somehow. for a Norwegian semiauto pistol.
I am an artist as well and many of the vintage handguns Ian has covered are *beautiful* extensions of human capacity. This one is not and I am very interested in seeing Niels' paintings as well. Keep these videos coming! they are fascinating.
The sad thing is that I understand the mindset here. An artist comes into contact with pistols and gets an idea of the aspects of automatic pistols without understanding the nuances to their engineering. Delaying mechanisms like rotating barrels and locking lugs but no real concept of pressure and kinetic energy. In other words he was very interested in designing things and seeing them machined to life. In another world, Bjorgum may have made some excellent kinetic sculptures had he taken the time and investment to learn how to machine.
so cool you got help from norwegian viewers !! i'm watching you from france and i just wanna tell you, you're videos are always a good time, interesting, and pretty relaxing! keep it up :)
I think there's a fairly simple explanation as to why Bjorgum, an artist by training and experience, thought he could just switch to another field, an engineering field, and expected to be able to contribute. It was the 1890s. Norway got their telegraph system going nationwide by 1870, and as a result, Norwegians were undergoing the profound changes that are always triggered by the introduction of the telegraph - suddenly, instant communication over unthinkable distances is a thing. Bjorgum had been professionally active since the 1880s. He had seen these remarkable changes. He knew their cause: the telegraph. And he knew, undoubtedly, who was generally regarded in Europe as the main inventor of the telegraph: an American, Samuel Morse. An American _artist_ named Samuel Morse. Who, having already established himself as an artist - just as Bjorgum had done in Norway, only more so - decided, in 1833, that now he was an inventor, and electrical engineer, and he was going to invent a working telegraph. And, arguably, proceeded to do exactly that. Why _wouldn't_ Bjorgum think he had a shot? He clearly had a very high opinion of his own ingenuity. And it was very much the spirit of the age.
Thank you, cool video. As a Norwegian, I find it really fascinating to find unknown pieces of our history. Just one small detail: Niels is the Danish spelling. The Nowegian spelling is Nils.
Just found this video! Glad to see a "forgotten" piece of Norwegian history, no matter how sad the firearm turned out to be. At least, he TRIED! Thank you, Ian!
FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS even if you´re fantastically crap at it, at least a channel on the far future equivalent of TH-cam is going to make a video about it :)
I find this fascinating sort of as a counterpart to the various Asian hand-made "mystery" and "counterfeit" pistols. Whereas you have rightly pointed out that, given an example pistol (or multiple examples of different models) it is both fascinating and impressive to see how a skilled metalworker can use only the most rudimentary tools to build something that is almost a pistol. In this case, we have a man who had all of the machining equipment and skilled workers available, but instead of starting with an example pistol to copy, started from scratch and did all of the engineering himself without the benefit of any engineering training or experience. And he DID, in fact, create a pistol, that DID appear to have worked a majority of the time, at least within the extremely small "service life" it had. Now of course, "a majority of the time" is not at all enough for a successful pistol, but it demonstrates that he actually engineered a mechanism that fundamentally did what it was supposed to, without being an engineering in any way, shape, or form. I find that fascinating.
Pretty cool that your channel was referenced by the senior producer at DICE, Alexsander Grondal! venturebeat.com/2016/10/21/walking-the-line-between-historical-accuracy-and-fun-in-battlefield-1/ Congratulations for being helpful to those interested in WW1 era weaponry and Battlefield 1!
Bjorgum, probably: "Its so light weight and so few pieces to malfunction!" Parliament: "Oh you mean the pieces that makes it functional? Those pieces?"
I checked in my Kongsberg-Colten book, and it only refers to the 1905 as "Bjørgum's pistol." So I guess he never gave it a designation. It's amazing that this... thing tried to compete with modern handguns. In fact, all of the Norwegian designs are pretty amazing in that regard. Stick to rifles, Norway. You're good at those.
Wild design. Gamle Bjørgum burde være kunstler ;-) (I just checked my family history books and am glad to say that no member of Bjørgum's family managed to con any member of my family into letting him join the menagerie.)
My wife's grandmother had the same last name, which tells you that I, a proud Swede from a very long line of Swede's married, OH MY GOD, a Norwegian! Much to the shame of my relatives. Yes, it is true, the rest of the Scandinavians make Norwegian jokes, and this gun appears to be the reason why, but don't tell my good wife I said that!
There is nothing wrong in principle with this idea. Rotating barrels are used to this day day in a number of successful designs, I'll cite the Russian GSh-18 destined for special forces. What poor Bjorgum did not understand is that he needed a heavy slide /bolt that could store enough recoil energy to cycle the gun reliably, not that flimsy sliding lid over the magazine. It was an easy fix to his design, but apparently even the folks he was working with at Kongsberg did not know any better and were probably offended by having to work for this amateur. At the end of the day, I like people who follow their dreams and passions even if the chances of success are slim. I'll check his paintings.
I could not find any painting. Looks like, apart from being the opposite of Frommer, he was also the opposite of Van Gogh: successful during his lifetime, totally forgotten after.
Hey Ian! Really BIG Fan. Love your website, Love your videos, think you’re great! I’m not one to comment a whole lot, however I do sometimes feel the need to comment. In this case, it is because you are so smart and knowledgeable that i feel I must correct you in your pronunciation of the word NICHE. You say it like NITCH, when in fact, you should be saying it like NEESH.Please don’t be offended. It is only because of My great respect and admiration for you that I even bothered to address the issue. Anyways, keep up the good work!!!
My god, I could just feel that cover plate removing the webbing between my thumb and trigger finger. That's some fearsome pistol, but not to the enemy. On another point, I'd love to see Ian putting together a few episodes of 'Fugazi Weapons'...
6:02 Wait a sec... 10.15 mm cartridge did actually exist and was used in Norway and Sweden around that time period... but that 10.15x61mmR was designed for rifles. Was Bjorgum seriously such a nutcase that he'd fire one of those bad boys outta PISTOL? 10.15x61mmR slings out 21,85 grams (337 grain) projectile with muzzle velocity of 500 m/s (1640 fps). That's stronger than .50 Action Express, the biggest shot you can use on Desert Eagle!
This guy was freaking insane to think it would work. It doesn’t look like it would "field strip" at all, and would probably need three people to disassemble.
Full name: Nils Josefson Bjørgum. He was also editor av a newspaper and in what would be the equivalent of the state /"fylke" in Norwegian) leadership of a Norwegian political party (Venstre, meaning "left", but actually in the centre of Norwegian politics. At that time the largest party, now a small party). That would propbably explain why he got someone in the parlament (Stortinget) to fund his guns.
Being of Swedish extraction, and married to a women from Norwegian extraction, I am quite familiar with the Norwegian jokes that have been around the upper Midwest since the days when the prairie was first settled by the immigrants from Scandinavian. Looking at this pistol only goes to reinforce the Ole and Sven jokes that I heard growing up. What a piece of crap! Makes the little .45ACP throw away pistol of WWII fame look like a M1911 in comparison.
Back in the day, before the skin of every American, hell every person on the planet became so very thin that one must not criticized their heritage, up in the Dakota's the Norwegian joke was the equivalent to the polish joke in Chicago. Being of Swedish extraction, and married to a Norsk, I, myself had to stop telling Ole and Lena jokes in 1969 when we wed on the day that much of teenage America was smokin' and tokin' at Woodstock. That said, this looks EXACTLY the way we would have drawn an typical Norwegian Pistol, well perhaps we would have drawn the barrel pointed back toward the shooter....
Haneviks book suggests there was supposed to be a top cover to the design to make it less funny looking. Also reading through Kongsberg-colten. He said in 2003 that no version of Bjorgums pistol was known to exist, but voila Gun Jesus finds one....
With refinement in the right hands, I feel this could have potential to be interesting. Probably not much better, but who knows? As it sits though that guy must have been mad as a hatter thinking that thing was actually a good piece
Probably by replacing the sheet metal cover at the back of the slide with a solid machined piece to add mass to the system and fixing the safety, it wouldn't be a terrible pistol. I think the design as it stands it would kick like crazy, if Ian's description of how light it felt in the hand.
I do think the concept of a rotating-bolt, forward-chambered pistol could work, but yeah, like you said, it'd definitely need some more junk in its trunk to keep things controlled, and some more engineering done to make sure all the components worked smoothly and safely.
There is enough material. Steels and alloys especially exotic ones are insanely robust. And mass is enemy, almost always. Length wise it just have long barrel.
There are some successful short recoil rotating barrel pistols out there, the system is well known and an alternative to the tilting barrel system used in the Colt 1911. However, the way this thing was designed denotes an utter lack of understanding of physics.
the hammer is in front of the magazine... Well, that's... Bizarre. as someone who loves trying to come up with self-made solutions to problems purely for my own amusement, I applaud his persistence I could almost see this being workable if he'd had a bit better background in the Engineering..
I am more surprised that it survived any amount of firing being chambered in .30 Mauser. Having shot that ammunition from that era from my broomhandle, it is nothing to sneeze at. This "pistol" looks like it would throw the bolt body through your face.
Perhaps you have visited the Dakota's, if not, I should explain a bit if tradition that is followed up here. You may be aware, the Dakota's were settled by primarily folks from Scandinavia and Germany. So it goes that the prejudices of those peoples came across the sea with them as they came to seek a better life in America. Dad was a full blood Swede, and very proud of it. In fact until he reached the 6th grade in school, he spoke only Swedish, both at home and in the Swedish school that was down the road from the farm where he was raised. Then when he moved to a new school, he was forced to learn English. This being back in the 1910's, Dad used to make fun of the Norwegians all the time, the Norwegian jokes were on the same line as th old Polish jokes else where in the USA back in those times. So Dad was quite taken aback when I married a half Norwegian girl but she did manage to pass on by since the other half was German, and dad had married a German girl so in fact I was half German, half Swede. I grew up never knowing if I should remain neutral or go to war with my enemies! All that said, this gun comes as no surprise to me, and I thank God that my wife is half German herself so she doesn't come up with some of the idiocy that the full Norwegians come up with (just joking, of course since now days such a premise is frowned upon everywhere) Mom's second husband was a full blood Norwegian, he used to always respond to my Norse comments with "20 thousand swedes running through the weeds," in reference to the war where Norway overthrew Sweden who was holding Norway as a colony of sorts. Now don't get me wrong, there was never really any hatred involved, even back in the day it was all done in a joking manner, the only ones who really fought over such things were all the Norse descendants and for some strange reason, the Irish.
You know, it has one major advantage. It doesn't look like a real, functional gun and looks like the important part is missing. This may afford you some benefit in espionage, or civil unrest, or crime?? Or maybe the enemy army will always leave your weapons in the field thinking they all broke, play into that stereotypical condescension of opposing forces.
He was born is Springfield, Massachusetts. Mulberry street is just a few block away from the Springfield Armory, and 2 miles away from Smith and Wesson. there's literally a sculpture dedicated to him less than a thousand feet away from the armory, and he did work with the United States government during WW2 making propaganda posters. So it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he had a substantial collection of his own.
The best thing that I can say about that gun is that it's better than I could have done and considering I don't know anything about designing guns that really isn't saying much. But there is one thing that I know I could have done better and that's the safety, I would have definitely made a safety that doesn't cause the hammer to drop when taken off safe. However, considering his lack of firearms knowledge, and probably usage as well, maybe it was intentional because he thought that it would be a good idea. Maybe he thought that it would allow the user to get a shot off faster, remove the gun from your holster, aim, take the gun off of safe, and BANG, you've just fired your first shot without spending time pulling the trigger.
he might have not been a successful gun designer, but he really did think outside the box and introduce some rather clever ideas. It would be cool to see how a group of engineers would build this concept into a functional design.
Very interesting pistol. I think the saying "if it looks bad, it probably is" fits quite well with this pistol. I mean this must be really uncomfortable to hold and fire possibly unless you use a stock. I would have thought that an atist would have thought about making the pistol look good and have some good ergonomics as well as attempting to make it actually safe an functional.
I'm kinda surprised a whole arsenal of machinists didn't come up with a better design than this eventually.... Maybe they just thought so little of each other that it never came up. xD
...or maybe it was the apprentice types that got stuck helping the crazy painter, and they just did what they were told... xD Although I guess they might be even more willing to offer opinions...however less experience with guns they probably had....
Amazing presentation and video in general. So well organized, told and your pronounciation is GREAT for the Norwegian names. Respected, liked and subbed ;)
Also, your telling of the Niels Bjorgum story is hilarious. I know you don't intend to be a comedian but your delivery can be perfect. I just about lost it when you got to, "Neither one of these barrels is for a cartridge that actually exists...which is a problem..."
11:15 "with your _third_ hand" . . . lol
The one ring pistol, when he says "if you can't successfully kill yourself, it's probably not dangerous" had me rolling.
More sketchy than a Chinese mystery pistol, that's kind of impressive XD
yeah chinese browning-mauser-fn pistols atleast look like they could function :D
Yu mean the mauser mauser mauser brevet pistols? xD
CommissarZhukov I think id prefer the Wauser...
@@legobuchseTV chairman Maoser? 🥁
If at first you don't succeed, try and try again untill you waste all your money.
At least he was smart enough to waste other people's money first.
try until you make it.. or can convincingly fake it!
+Manny Owlstein A true Trumpian perspective.
*****... queue eyeroll
well that's just wrong ... in more ways than one... "accept"
It was kinda hilarious to translate the source material xD
Best letter in the whole thing:
"The factory has by now for over a year developed a countless amount of parts. These will be very instructive to illustrate what one with skilled workers and modern machines can make out of steel, but the factory has other and better use of its machines and people than making such weirdness.."
Very insightful.
Tragic that there was no public request to develop a service pistol through some announcement in Norway if it was really such a desired and necessary item. It would have been interesting to see some of the other alternatives that might have been built.
There was a public request. They set up a competition. there was a few competitors iirc.
VonGrav
Ah, thanks and thats good for future interest then. Are their examples included within the book Ian discussed?
My bad
"Colt, browning, parabellum, roth, mannlicher and mauser" Are mentioned.
It was mentioned during the testing of Bjørgums m/1911 version that there was also 3 other Norwegian designs tested. But the names are not mentioned. I suppose one has to dig into the actual reports to find those.
VonGrav
Thanks very much :)
This man had the earnest hopelessness that every British person dreams of having.
So basically, the "safety" on this thing, is actually more dangerous then not having a safety? This thing is an example of why the Chinese Mystery Pistols aren't actually that bad.
It’s not a safety. That’s the delaying mechanism in the gun.
That safety was the more ridiculous thing I've seen in a while. I was more of a surprise trigger than a safety.
@@art070769 He was ahead of his time(as an artist). The perfect setup for a "happy little accident".
It’s actually just a “Snooze button”
@@jackandersen1262 manually delayed blowback is the best operation, actually
I am Norwegian and have spent some time now reading trough our parliment logs from this period (1903-1937). I am absolutely stunned that you have this information. How do you research this?
Some additional information:
Niels Bjoergum (Norwegian: Nils Bjørgum) recieved funding in 1905 to produce 3 prototype pistols and 3 prototype selfloading rifles. Actually he recieved funding twice as he spent the first funding without completing anything. He was closed down at Kongsberg in 1915 due to the first world war and funded his endevours trough his private company during the war. The intention was that one would consider to commence production once a normal situation at the factory returned. From this point on there is no mention of the pistols as I have found, they were probably deemed useless. However the prototype selfloading rifles have been mentioned a lot.
As the war drew to a close Nils tried to get back into the factory but a technical committe deemed that no results had been produced so far and shut the project down. By 1920 Nils had pleaded to the parliament to overturn the decision. Here it is noted that a millitary committee argued that due to the large investment of public money thrown into the project, one should throw more money at it until it gave results. Nils must have made some really good friends in that committee. The parliament decided to trust the technical committees decision and did not overturn their decision to stop the project. I found evidence as late as 1937 where Nils again tried to commence work on his selfloading rifle, so he obviously didnt forget his past as a.. well.. his past attempt at beeing a gun designer..
Ian: the norwegians adopted the colt 1911 which is a great pistol...
1911 fanboy: hell yeah
Ian: ...for the time period
1911 fanboy: *triggered*
Donna Sachs Not being any kind of fan boy, but the P-51 analogy won't fly, so to speak. The world's best pilot in a P-51 isn't going to get anywhere near a modern fighter aircraft to even try to have a fair fight. Somebody who knows how to use a 1911, OTOH, can easily still win a handgun fight with someone armed with the most 'modern' pistol. Being outdated is a relative thing.
Obsolescent would be the more accurate term. Obsolete implies it would not be a viable service weapon at all in the present age whereas obsolescent suggests that there are better alternatives available today but it would still give a very good account of itself. Personally, I don't think it is even obsolescent. There is really nothing about a 1911a1 that is seriously limiting compared to "modern" handguns.
Well, compared to anything modern, the M1911 does seem a bit obsolete.
It's big, has a low ammunition capacity, is single action, and heavy. I didn't mention anything about the ammunition, as many modern pistols use .45 ACP.
However, it has excellent ergonomics and a solid locking system, which is copied on virtually every modern pistol.
Really its only practical drawback is its limited magizine capasity, which for millitary application, is an easy thing to fix. USMC just readopted a m1911 variant with a double stack magizine
Andre Krumins I don't think so.
There's the MEU(SOC) pistol, which is basically modernized M1911A1 frames from 1945. Same basic design.
At first I thought that was a single shot
I got a "what the hell am I looking at" moment.
No kidding! That was surprising.
A survivor I can't stand him.
wild bill I'll be waiting for that day.
wild bill Saw his slam fire shotgun. never in my life have I cringed so hard at a gun video.
This is admittedly a nerdy thing that only I'm into; but I would be interested in the history of stripper clips, speed loaders, etc. I think the evolution of reloading tech would be cool.
th-cam.com/video/G3zQb3KZpNM/w-d-xo.html
Thanks! I should have known you had something already. I guess after all the hours I have spent watching Forgotten Weapons I missed this one.
You know it's the worst of the worst when you can't even throw it at someone and injure them.
"It ain't a gun unless it weighs at least a hundred pounds!"-Gunner, Deep Rock Galactic.
Being a Norwegian I am quite embarrassed that something that flimsy and bad came out of Kongsberg Arms. It looks like mr. Bjorgum has worked in a corner of his own and not taking any help or advice from anyone who worked at the Kongsberg Arms.
Nothing to be embarrassed for. Bjørgum did his best, and there's no stamps from Kongsberg våpenfabrikk (as far as I could see), so they did not approve it on any way. The gun commision tested it as little as possible, but still enough to satisfy the government. And by the way, if you look at the later stuff Kongsberg våpenfabrikk made, then you can start to be embarrassed. No finesse at all.
It really feels like there's something missing from the back of the pistol. A cover, something to keep the action from sliding when reloading. Him having presented incomplete guns for actual trials, I would not be surprised... But I do applaud the desire to make something of his own, and not just settle for... perfectly working solutions. Well.
I had the same thought... images of cartridges sliding off the the side rather than seating in the chamber flashed by :-)
Well that's a pretty depressing gunmaker story.
ROFL. I bet that's how most of the gun makers ended, broke.
I don't know. Was a little happy to me. He got to have fun and just went back painting when he couldn't get any more funding.
A locking bolt zip gun? Whoever fired it 50 times is WAY braver (or foolhardy) than I.
sixteen. ...presumably someone tested it before that...although judging by the 1914 one...I'm probably giving the operation too much credit.
I honestly don't know how they got through the effort of loading 16 rounds, much less firing 16 rounds through what looks like the most fragile handgun ever made.
At least it wasn't 3D printed?
his thought wasn´t in the box, It wasn´t even in the house the box was in.
SonsOfLorgar
he wasn´t that far of, it goes boom, most of the times and the bulit goes in the right general direction.
SonsOfLorgar
I have seen worst, It might be on the top ten list of the worst. but at least no Norweigan fells hurt and try to explain that it´s good somehow. for a Norwegian semiauto pistol.
Exploatores true. I'm from Norway very true
Yup, this thing makes me proud to be Norwegian. /sarcasm
Edit: seriously, that is one of the ugliest and fragile looking pistols I've ever seen xD
Dv8
Norwegian designs are really cool tho, I saw some prototype "assault rifles" that were really really cool
TheOtakuComrade
That might be, but this thing is a joke. I had a good laugh though :D
***** Yeah pretty much
Dv8
Look up for Norwegian 1920'/30' assault rifles, some of them are really interesting
Så hvor I vårt langstrakte land bor du?
Dv8 we almost did it thoe xD
He tried to DaVinci but couldn't, but honestly these awful attempts make me wanna try my hand at gun designing.
elneutrino90 : He at least took a good hard stab at his dreams.
+tranq45 My phrase sounded harsher than I wantedd it to, but you're right that his story was inspiring.
elneutrino90 : Yes. He certainly had courage to try, and that counts for a lot. I think I would stick to single-shot long guns, myself.
I am an artist as well and many of the vintage handguns Ian has covered are *beautiful* extensions of human capacity. This one is not and I am very interested in seeing Niels' paintings as well. Keep these videos coming! they are fascinating.
funny that it took a painter to make a gun this ugly, seemingly lacking any aesthetic considerations, huh?
looks like scaramanga's golden gun without the gold
.. and without the gun
So the gun fires as soon as you put the safety to "fire?" Are we sure this guy didn't end up at Remington, working on the 700?
Ore the SPAS 12?
The sad thing is that I understand the mindset here.
An artist comes into contact with pistols and gets an idea of the aspects of automatic pistols without understanding the nuances to their engineering. Delaying mechanisms like rotating barrels and locking lugs but no real concept of pressure and kinetic energy.
In other words he was very interested in designing things and seeing them machined to life.
In another world, Bjorgum may have made some excellent kinetic sculptures had he taken the time and investment to learn how to machine.
Oh god this is like me
*Sad noises*
I'll never create anything.....
It’s kinda tragic isn’t it
This looks like something a small child would come up with if you told them to draw a picture of a gun.
Looks like a gun some guy in Compton made in his garage.
so cool you got help from norwegian viewers !! i'm watching you from france and i just wanna tell you, you're videos are always a good time, interesting, and pretty relaxing! keep it up :)
Is the barrel warped, or is just the lack of finish, reflection, and shadow?
Optical illusion; the barrel is straight.
I think there's a fairly simple explanation as to why Bjorgum, an artist by training and experience, thought he could just switch to another field, an engineering field, and expected to be able to contribute.
It was the 1890s. Norway got their telegraph system going nationwide by 1870, and as a result, Norwegians were undergoing the profound changes that are always triggered by the introduction of the telegraph - suddenly, instant communication over unthinkable distances is a thing.
Bjorgum had been professionally active since the 1880s. He had seen these remarkable changes. He knew their cause: the telegraph.
And he knew, undoubtedly, who was generally regarded in Europe as the main inventor of the telegraph: an American, Samuel Morse.
An American _artist_ named Samuel Morse. Who, having already established himself as an artist - just as Bjorgum had done in Norway, only more so - decided, in 1833, that now he was an inventor, and electrical engineer, and he was going to invent a working telegraph. And, arguably, proceeded to do exactly that.
Why _wouldn't_ Bjorgum think he had a shot? He clearly had a very high opinion of his own ingenuity. And it was very much the spirit of the age.
Thank you, cool video. As a Norwegian, I find it really fascinating to find unknown pieces of our history.
Just one small detail: Niels is the Danish spelling. The Nowegian spelling is Nils.
Thanks for another nice story. It's why I watch this channel.
me too.
Just found this video! Glad to see a "forgotten" piece of Norwegian history, no matter how sad the firearm turned out to be. At least, he TRIED! Thank you, Ian!
After watching this, I feel like I need to go watch a video about the 1911 so I can remember what "normal" looks like.
This gun is a Bork/10.
"Its a happy box" "He did not want to be in the box"
FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS
even if you´re fantastically crap at it, at least a channel on the far future equivalent of TH-cam is going to make a video about it :)
That's the spirit!
I find this fascinating sort of as a counterpart to the various Asian hand-made "mystery" and "counterfeit" pistols. Whereas you have rightly pointed out that, given an example pistol (or multiple examples of different models) it is both fascinating and impressive to see how a skilled metalworker can use only the most rudimentary tools to build something that is almost a pistol. In this case, we have a man who had all of the machining equipment and skilled workers available, but instead of starting with an example pistol to copy, started from scratch and did all of the engineering himself without the benefit of any engineering training or experience. And he DID, in fact, create a pistol, that DID appear to have worked a majority of the time, at least within the extremely small "service life" it had. Now of course, "a majority of the time" is not at all enough for a successful pistol, but it demonstrates that he actually engineered a mechanism that fundamentally did what it was supposed to, without being an engineering in any way, shape, or form. I find that fascinating.
You've roused my curiosity... Are there any other rotating barrel blow-forward pistols out there?
No, the two systems are mutually exclusive.
Pretty cool that your channel was referenced by the senior producer at DICE, Alexsander Grondal! venturebeat.com/2016/10/21/walking-the-line-between-historical-accuracy-and-fun-in-battlefield-1/
Congratulations for being helpful to those interested in WW1 era weaponry and Battlefield 1!
John Reynolds I dont think this gun is blow forward.
Even though Ian literally says it IS Blow-Forward withing the first few min???
Kermode Bear he said the Model of 1904 was blow forward. This is a 1905 or later and is short recoil with a rotating barrel.
Bjorgum, probably: "Its so light weight and so few pieces to malfunction!"
Parliament: "Oh you mean the pieces that makes it functional? Those pieces?"
Award winner for the WORST safety design in the history of firearms development!
I checked in my Kongsberg-Colten book, and it only refers to the 1905 as "Bjørgum's pistol." So I guess he never gave it a designation.
It's amazing that this... thing tried to compete with modern handguns. In fact, all of the Norwegian designs are pretty amazing in that regard. Stick to rifles, Norway. You're good at those.
We need a Forgotten Weapons multiplayer shooter that uses all this weird stuff.
That is quite bizarre... but it utilizes some interesting ideas
I give him credit for trying, but holy mother of god that’s a scary gun
Wild design. Gamle Bjørgum burde være kunstler ;-) (I just checked my family history books and am glad to say that no member of Bjørgum's family managed to con any member of my family into letting him join the menagerie.)
My wife's grandmother had the same last name, which tells you that I, a proud Swede from a very long line of Swede's married, OH MY GOD, a Norwegian! Much to the shame of my relatives. Yes, it is true, the rest of the Scandinavians make Norwegian jokes, and this gun appears to be the reason why, but don't tell my good wife I said that!
There is nothing wrong in principle with this idea. Rotating barrels are used to this day day in a number of successful designs, I'll cite the Russian GSh-18 destined for special forces. What poor Bjorgum did not understand is that he needed a heavy slide /bolt that could store enough recoil energy to cycle the gun reliably, not that flimsy sliding lid over the magazine. It was an easy fix to his design, but apparently even the folks he was working with at Kongsberg did not know any better and were probably offended by having to work for this amateur. At the end of the day, I like people who follow their dreams and passions even if the chances of success are slim. I'll check his paintings.
I could not find any painting. Looks like, apart from being the opposite of Frommer, he was also the opposite of Van Gogh: successful during his lifetime, totally forgotten after.
Hey Ian! Really BIG Fan. Love your website, Love your videos, think you’re great! I’m not one to comment a whole lot, however I do sometimes feel the need to comment. In this case, it is because you are so smart and knowledgeable that i feel I must correct you in your pronunciation of the word NICHE. You say it like NITCH, when in fact, you should be saying it like NEESH.Please don’t be offended. It is only because of My great respect and admiration for you that I even bothered to address the issue. Anyways, keep up the good work!!!
My god, I could just feel that cover plate removing the webbing between my thumb and trigger finger. That's some fearsome pistol, but not to the enemy. On another point, I'd love to see Ian putting together a few episodes of 'Fugazi Weapons'...
6:02
Wait a sec... 10.15 mm cartridge did actually exist and was used in Norway and Sweden around that time period... but that 10.15x61mmR was designed for rifles. Was Bjorgum seriously such a nutcase that he'd fire one of those bad boys outta PISTOL?
10.15x61mmR slings out 21,85 grams (337 grain) projectile with muzzle velocity of 500 m/s (1640 fps).
That's stronger than .50 Action Express, the biggest shot you can use on Desert Eagle!
This guy was freaking insane to think it would work.
It doesn’t look like it would "field strip" at all, and would probably need three people to disassemble.
Great content. As a norwegian I really enjoyed your take on this part of our history.
Full name:
Nils Josefson Bjørgum. He was also editor av a newspaper and in what would be the equivalent of the state /"fylke" in Norwegian) leadership of a Norwegian political party (Venstre, meaning "left", but actually in the centre of Norwegian politics. At that time the largest party, now a small party). That would propbably explain why he got someone in the parlament (Stortinget) to fund his guns.
Thank you Ian for the great video and a special thanks for those norwegian guys!
Being of Swedish extraction, and married to a women from Norwegian extraction, I am quite familiar with the Norwegian jokes that have been around the upper Midwest since the days when the prairie was first settled by the immigrants from Scandinavian. Looking at this pistol only goes to reinforce the Ole and Sven jokes that I heard growing up. What a piece of crap! Makes the little .45ACP throw away pistol of WWII fame look like a M1911 in comparison.
Back in the day, before the skin of every American, hell every person on the planet became so very thin that one must not criticized their heritage, up in the Dakota's the Norwegian joke was the equivalent to the polish joke in Chicago. Being of Swedish extraction, and married to a Norsk, I, myself had to stop telling Ole and Lena jokes in 1969 when we wed on the day that much of teenage America was smokin' and tokin' at Woodstock. That said, this looks EXACTLY the way we would have drawn an typical Norwegian Pistol, well perhaps we would have drawn the barrel pointed back toward the shooter....
Haneviks book suggests there was supposed to be a top cover to the design to make it less funny looking. Also reading through Kongsberg-colten. He said in 2003 that no version of Bjorgums pistol was known to exist, but voila Gun Jesus finds one....
With refinement in the right hands, I feel this could have potential to be interesting. Probably not much better, but who knows?
As it sits though that guy must have been mad as a hatter thinking that thing was actually a good piece
Probably by replacing the sheet metal cover at the back of the slide with a solid machined piece to add mass to the system and fixing the safety, it wouldn't be a terrible pistol.
I think the design as it stands it would kick like crazy, if Ian's description of how light it felt in the hand.
I do think the concept of a rotating-bolt, forward-chambered pistol could work, but yeah, like you said, it'd definitely need some more junk in its trunk to keep things controlled, and some more engineering done to make sure all the components worked smoothly and safely.
There is enough material. Steels and alloys especially exotic ones are insanely robust. And mass is enemy, almost always.
Length wise it just have long barrel.
There are some successful short recoil rotating barrel pistols out there, the system is well known and an alternative to the tilting barrel system used in the Colt 1911. However, the way this thing was designed denotes an utter lack of understanding of physics.
the hammer is in front of the magazine... Well, that's... Bizarre.
as someone who loves trying to come up with self-made solutions to problems purely for my own amusement, I applaud his persistence I could almost see this being workable if he'd had a bit better background in the Engineering..
I am more surprised that it survived any amount of firing being chambered in .30 Mauser. Having shot that ammunition from that era from my broomhandle, it is nothing to sneeze at.
This "pistol" looks like it would throw the bolt body through your face.
Perhaps you have visited the Dakota's, if not, I should explain a bit if tradition that is followed up here. You may be aware, the Dakota's were settled by primarily folks from Scandinavia and Germany. So it goes that the prejudices of those peoples came across the sea with them as they came to seek a better life in America. Dad was a full blood Swede, and very proud of it. In fact until he reached the 6th grade in school, he spoke only Swedish, both at home and in the Swedish school that was down the road from the farm where he was raised. Then when he moved to a new school, he was forced to learn English. This being back in the 1910's, Dad used to make fun of the Norwegians all the time, the Norwegian jokes were on the same line as th old Polish jokes else where in the USA back in those times. So Dad was quite taken aback when I married a half Norwegian girl but she did manage to pass on by since the other half was German, and dad had married a German girl so in fact I was half German, half Swede. I grew up never knowing if I should remain neutral or go to war with my enemies! All that said, this gun comes as no surprise to me, and I thank God that my wife is half German herself so she doesn't come up with some of the idiocy that the full Norwegians come up with (just joking, of course since now days such a premise is frowned upon everywhere) Mom's second husband was a full blood Norwegian, he used to always respond to my Norse comments with "20 thousand swedes running through the weeds," in reference to the war where Norway overthrew Sweden who was holding Norway as a colony of sorts. Now don't get me wrong, there was never really any hatred involved, even back in the day it was all done in a joking manner, the only ones who really fought over such things were all the Norse descendants and for some strange reason, the Irish.
Pretty good Norwegian pronounciation! I have now named the pistol. I hereby dub it "The Cooperation Pistol" because you need three hands...
You know, it has one major advantage. It doesn't look like a real, functional gun and looks like the important part is missing.
This may afford you some benefit in espionage, or civil unrest, or crime?? Or maybe the enemy army will always leave your weapons in the field thinking they all broke, play into that stereotypical condescension of opposing forces.
the inventor is not the only well known former painter to die in 1945
that should've stayed clear of the military...
He died in 1949.
Heh! A gun you couldn't give away in the Kyber Pass or China during the warlord era.
well its not a good firearm, but at least it can be thrown into the "neat as hell" category
I don't know if Dr. Seuss owned a gun, but I feel like this would be the one he had.
jett garcia dr. Seuss was actually a firearms enthusiast, surprisingly.
He was born is Springfield, Massachusetts. Mulberry street is just a few block away from the Springfield Armory, and 2 miles away from Smith and Wesson. there's literally a sculpture dedicated to him less than a thousand feet away from the armory, and he did work with the United States government during WW2 making propaganda posters. So it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he had a substantial collection of his own.
I live in Norway and I can confirm that this inbreed looking pistol is indeed something a mind of a norwegian could come up with
Wow! Not just wrong, but actively dangerous. Worst gun designer ever?
The best thing that I can say about that gun is that it's better than I could have done and considering I don't know anything about designing guns that really isn't saying much. But there is one thing that I know I could have done better and that's the safety, I would have definitely made a safety that doesn't cause the hammer to drop when taken off safe. However, considering his lack of firearms knowledge, and probably usage as well, maybe it was intentional because he thought that it would be a good idea. Maybe he thought that it would allow the user to get a shot off faster, remove the gun from your holster, aim, take the gun off of safe, and BANG, you've just fired your first shot without spending time pulling the trigger.
he might have not been a successful gun designer, but he really did think outside the box and introduce some rather clever ideas. It would be cool to see how a group of engineers would build this concept into a functional design.
that's the bastard son of a Sjögren shotgun and a Liberator pistol :-D
I will easily buy the book. I'm from Norway 👍👍👍👍
I'll take a Chinese mystery pistol over this junk any day.
Very interesting pistol.
I think the saying "if it looks bad, it probably is" fits quite well with this pistol.
I mean this must be really uncomfortable to hold and fire possibly unless you use a stock.
I would have thought that an atist would have thought about making the pistol look good and have some good ergonomics as well as attempting to make it actually safe an functional.
In my opinion the back story of this pistol is more interesting than the pistol itself
You only put the "safety" on when surrendering hoping your gun fights on.
ITS NOT A “SAFETY” IT’S A “SNOOZE BUTTON!!” 🤣
Maybe he should have spent some of that money on engineering classes.
nice video please nake a video about a vepr 12 vs utas 12 gauge shotgun
Elbonia needs this guy to help them with their arms programs
Makes one proud to be Norwegian!
Aaron TheDirtyDog That's Racist!
Breaking news!: Nationalism is on the rise in Norway! XD
norway is the retarded brother of sweden
Aaron TheDirtyDog So a prototype pistol that's more effective when thrown gives you pride?
It was a complete failure. You should really be proud of the Krag and the 1914, and Bjørgum's art
He, this Swede is not surprised that that monstrosity is norwegian
And this attempt was 7 years after the Luger...
I'm kinda surprised a whole arsenal of machinists didn't come up with a better design than this eventually.... Maybe they just thought so little of each other that it never came up. xD
...or maybe it was the apprentice types that got stuck helping the crazy painter, and they just did what they were told... xD Although I guess they might be even more willing to offer opinions...however less experience with guns they probably had....
This has got to be the worst pistol you have had on your channel
This pistol is *truly* a work of art.
Refined and made with modern materials this type of gun would be kinda cool imo.
i don´t Think you can save this gun Construction.
Maybe the artist wanted the army to have a shitty gun? Who knows? lol
And I bet he stuffed a lot of that money in his own pockets. xD
lol, This guy was the Ed Wood of gun design.
It's pretty interesting anecdotally. I've seen zip guns that inspire more confidence though.
"It's a happy box" XDDDD ... I love all the vids Ian does, but little gems like this take it twice as awesome :D
Probably the best Ian`s video, i`m rewatching it for the third time.
I just watched this on Full30 lol
Amazing presentation and video in general. So well organized, told and your pronounciation is GREAT for the Norwegian names. Respected, liked and subbed ;)
my last name is Bjørgum, and I'm Norwegian
Name your daughter Gunn.
@@gamleoslo lol
Maybe that feature of the safety was a decocker.
Could be a Star Wars pistol but not a gun
this is like a real life elbonia story lmao
"he did not want to be in the box" LMAO hilarious ending
That gun is the only one known, and I'm happy to say it is home again now.
Me seeing the title: bruh wat da heeeeeeck
I seen better made in prison zip guns.