Air temp does affect engine power. Did a custom race at Daytona International Speedway. Race started in the evening and transitioned to night. My top speed had increased a couple of MPH by the end of the race compared to when it started.
@@kidShibuya One had no fuel and another bot race I did had fuel, but I had to get fuel like 4 times. My lap time were consistently getting faster over the race even with worn out tires.
@@Sir.Craze- I didn't measure my lap times but I was carrying around 3-4mph extra speed by the end of the back straight for the last couple of laps after it turned night.
I don’t know if GT Sport had this but I’ve definitely noticed in GT7 that the tyres only start gripping well after 2-3 laps. It seems like they need more time to warm up than they did on GT Sport
It depends on the race type, but yes GT SPort also needed a warmup period, however GT7 is much less forgiving with throttle traction so you notice it much more. If they race type has 7x tire wear for instance like daily race C last week, then the tires also warm up much faster, so maybe half a lap they're warmed up.
@@gokartmozart9430 it still does, but now it just gets a red highlight around the edge. I prefer the GT5 visual though, an updated version with better colours would have been epic. Along with ACC style tyre simulation
I feel as if GT7 needs to work harder on the top end of grip. In GTS, when cars are pushed hard, you can simply understeer and plow your way through and then throttle to victory, with few exceptions (Mach 1, GT40 and Pantera) but in GT7 they made every car oversteer just about. The problem with this is that tire slip and tire angle isn't visually or audibly presented in the game. I will take a C7 Corvette ZR1, and as I begin to turn, the car feels like it's on rails until suddenly, grip gives out. On tracks with long turns, Willow Springs for example. Take a street car out, and as you begin to turn, slowly apply more and more throttle until you suddenly spin. It's unexpected and jarring. iRacing had this exact same issue in early-mid 2020 and it took actual racecar drivers to complain about it for them to actually get on with fixing it. Every sim I have played illustrates it 1000x better than GT7 Even games like GPL from 1998 show it off exceptionally well and do it better than GT7.
Put ballast in your car if its a MR car put the ballast placed further forward it'll stop the snap oversteer if its a FR car put the ballast to the back the car will be more stable
@@yblvani3112 it's not the complete solution but it definitely helps, there's youtube videos about it in MR for example if you put it all the way forward it will be the least likely to spin out but the steering doesn't feel so direct, so experiment move it back until you find the perfect placement to suit you
The funny thing is, I played the hell out of GT Sport about 2 months before the release, till the day I got my preorder of GT7. The first thing I've noticed is, UNDERSTEER was mad. I could execute the corners comfortably in GT sport but GT7, I was wailing away off track into the grass. For a decent while I was more of a lawnmower than a racing driver. But when the powerful cars came along, oversteer was a mad issue. In GT sport it could easily be controlled into a nice powerslide. In GT7 however, the driver steers automatically in the opposite direction (yes counter steering was OFF), I don't know why, it never did that in GT Sport. So I'm slamming the analogue in the opposite direction on top, and steering too much then sliding the other way. After I jingled about left and right a few times...I'm in a full blown 360. I've learned to adapt. Let the game correct it as much as possible, just control throttle and SLIGHT tweak of left stick to correct it. Nothing crazy. Generally I just let it be and control throttle or hit brakes to slow down.
I think the problem is that when it happens, the game realistically makes the wheels "turn" to the opposite direction (when in reality it's the tail of the car turning in relation to the front wheels) but since the player can't feel that input of the steering changing rapidly on its own, it's impossible to react to it. I think it's also a problem with a wheel because the wheel force feedback isn't fast enough to provide that information to the driver which leads to an over correction. Maybe that's not how it works but there definitely is a problem in GT7 and even GT Sport that the player doesn't get enough information to be able to do difficult maneuvers like drifting properly. The more complex and realistic the physics are, the more realistic and fast the steering feedback needs to be.
Dont forget input lag. I played gt on a crt recently with a wheel and omg, it felt like the steering shaft was directly connected to the PlayStation, it was amazing
@@bookshelffury Man dont make me depressed... I still mourn the loss of CRT(and plasma) technology and us being stuck with this inferior technology. Sure you could buy better performing LCDs or OLEds but they are crazy expensive and still slower than CRT and plasma.
The initial grippier launch of the Supra is why it got to the 1100 first, more traction equals more distance covered per tire rotation. I think the main differences aren't in static tire grip, but in the way the physics model deals with lateral grip, and accelerative grip when not planted, like in corner exit. To me, this is more realistic than Sport by a great deal, and after time watching exit speeds, throttle input, steering input and measuring that against what could be done in a real life version of the same, it comes down to the fact that in life, full throttle is reserved for certain moments, and feathering the throttle is much more in line with the way a real car is driven quickly. Once you take time to get used to it, it is super rewarding and fun. Going back to Sport feels strange, because after playing 7, you can throw a Sport car at anything and full throttle your way out. Not so in 7 by any stretch! Good video!
Ree why can't I hold throttle down and not have to think about it! Terrible game that doesn't cater to my shallow desires and unwillingness to adapt ree
I've been waiting on a breakdown of the physics in basically every racing game I would love to see the physical representation of what the algorithms are doing but these videos are the next best option and I really hope that this video pans out to be what I think it is
It depends of the car imo, and sports (hard) tyres do help a lot. I find GT7 physics much closer to reality then GT Sport, where all cars were too understeered, and there was no reaction when grip suddenly returned.
I wanted to add a few more tests in this, but that borked update taking the game offline put pay to that.. Place your bets on when GT7 will rise from the dead.
Try some experiments with the gravity physics. That was my thought on why uphill was slower but downhill faster on sport. It seems obvious something is different with gravity as soon as you jump a rally car lol
The understeer is ridiculous. Comfort and sports tyres are very pleasant and intuitive, but as soon as you install slicks BOOM you're all over the barriers
Does GT7 have a 2D g-force graph? It'd be easy to see the tire grip there. From what I've seen here, GT Sport seems to take lateral and longitudinal forces grip limits separately, while the behavior in GT 7 might indicate a more realistic "traction circle"-like tire model.
3:53 that is something i also noticed coming from 200+ hrs on gt sport your throttle management has to be right on the money to get the most out of every corner another thing i noticed is the physics feeling more vertical, like going over a curb too hard will actually send your car up, as opposed to the car just being pushed up a little in gt sport
Mechanical grip, especially in rear engine or mid engine cars is entirely incorrect in this game. Tire performance overall and traction on race tires is not accurate. Not quite a simcade, but it’s extremely close.
The only thing I know is that the game is extremely frustrating with a controller. I did 100% gold a month ago in GT Sports. I feel like it was the right difficulty. In GT7, it took me 100 tries to gold a sector with three curves.
GTS was far too easy. GT7 is easy, other than a couple of tests. But even then it just took nothing more than an hour to gold. Some missions and circuit experiences tho are pretty tough and I think it is about right as far as a challenge goes.
@@ezaike335 The handling of the car also has a lot to do with the feeling on the controller and it can also mess with the time wich can make things harder. That to say that physics and car handling can make things harder wich is the case in gt7.
@@voongnz I found the S licences easy enough to get gold on controller. Some of the circuit experiences are far harder but present a good challenge. I can generally get them done within an hour each. The credit rewards are well worth it now. But man that Bathurst lap in the Mclaren was a bit of a mission…
It's not you. In a weird way I think the game is making me better in more realistic sim games though. But, yeah it's way too touchy and with lack of a detailed force feedback, it's a bit frustrating to deal with.
@@MTG69 PS5, don't think console type will make a difference. It's the Fanatec DD Pro. I would say the game only utilizes a small amount of the wheels full potential. It's night and day going from Assetto Corsa to GT7 or Sport.
What GT7 is doing - catering towards casuals and sim racers alike - is what Project CARS 3 failed to ever do. I've had so much fun with GT7 physics and weather/wind speed simulation - so many factors at play without being super complicated.
Some things to consider. Racing sims apply filters to inputs, any changes here could cause cars to lose grip easier. Without any changes to the physics. Changing tire attributes or giving more attributes to work with could change the results with no changes to the underlying physics, and vice versa. Same for the suspension. Physics could run at a higher frequency. Or any combination of all of the above. So many things can be causing the differences, good luck delineating between everything. Just a personal pet pev. Engine torque is irrelevant on its own. The gear box is a torque multiplier, which is why less torque at a higher rpm (better gear ratio) can produce more power. HP tells you what combination will produce the most torque where it matters, at the wheels.
Wow Forza Motorsport has been using track temperature to affect their tire physics for a while now lol. The suspension physics look so much more realistic in gt7 than in previous installments though. I always felt that Forza did a much better job with suspension/handling physics but lacked the tire grip that GT simulated. Can’t wait to try gt7 when I get a PS5.
Air temperature influenced cars’ power since GT4 or even GT3 (that’s where the inconsistency of power/torque data between garage and in-race comes from) and fuel weight was also a case in those PS2 games, so I’m sure for all the other sequels they’ve kept those factors working.
@4:08 I own a 500whp mkv Supra, and if you give it more than about 50% throttle with any kind of steering angle at lower speeds and the back will absolutely come around on you. Actually have a skid pad video on my channel.
Dang, respect to you for making this video. Seriously well done! Hit thay thumbs up all! The amount of time and effort on this one deserves at least a thumbs up!
@@Xeno-yy8dz always good to practice but to push a car to it's limit and not beyond in GT7 you need practice in what ever car your using at the time on what ever track and also temperature. Seems easier to slide at night time. Which is where you would expect less grip.
Another amazing video. Thanks for this awesome research! I thought I was the only one who noticed INSTANTLY how different (I think ‘improved’) the physics were over GT Sport… The best thing about this day and age is that we get games that can be continually improved upon. Since GT7 is a ‘full’ version of a traditional GT game, PD will be paying A LOT of attention to it… so, the fact that we don’t have new cars and tracks yet doesn’t bother me ONE BIT… …because I’m confident that they’ll be taking the time to continually improve the game at a fundamental level with its services (online play stability, streaming…) and the games physics. I’m also confident they they will be hard at work to ensure that things like furl tank capacity and temperatures DO make a difference. PD is WELL aware of its competition, and I trust that they will keep their eyes/ears open, while keeping their heads down and plugging away at keeping the game an AMAZING experience. Long live GT.
@@sofaking1180 no, since they patched the rate at which you receive credits in the WRONG DIRECTION they're clearly not interested in changing the game for the better.
Did some real world tests with a mustang gt in gt7 and mine in real life same tires same sweeping corner same gear same speed same throttle application and in gt7 I was spun around in real life I doubled throttle input and it just went around the corner. Ijs gt7 has alot of work to do
@@smokinC5 not a real track just a very similar corner. Should have specified. It was cold af out as well so if anything more power less grip than the game
@@jrock9195 i have to agree, the physics are off big time. I have had my vette in some pretty agressive turns in autox and such, and gt7 feels like im driving in snow and ice lol
@@smokinC5 it's crazy idk where they get these physics from. Granted idk what exactly sport soft tires are in gt7 but I had cold 50% tread pilot sport 4s. Mayb that's a medium in gt7 and soft is a r888 or something who knows
So the top speed differences could be a better aerodynamic model in GT7 which more accurately models air resistance. Also take not GT7 has a wind model and I don't think Sport has any wind at all.
understeer differences into corner and power oversteer on the way out could easily be differences in the modelling of braking / acceleration on downward force on tyres (the effects of car pitch in corners) and the modelling of tyre surface contact (affected by roll). The tyres could technically have the same characteristics, but a different modelling of the forces at each tyre / tyre contact surface during cornering updates the overall tyre slippage.
You should do a video called “why does GT7 sound like someone shitting inside of a hollow can” I’ve heard straight piped Hondas that sound better than half the cars in this game😂
No point of comparing that what is nonexistent in both GT7 and Forza series. Both are simcades and I bet the physics are made deliberately simple there, as no one will want to buy another rFactor 2. On your example in Tsukuba, when you exit slow hairpin (just before the long straight), on any RWD vehicle with about 200-250 HP, if you don't do weird things with steering wheel, the car will have no slide and will be very stable in reality. What I think was done, is that some product manager \ game designer told programmers "Alright, we need to get more fun into the game... lets make cars oversteer more!". And everybody was like "Yeeeeh, you nailed it!".
I still say the grip in GT7 is wonky. The snap oversteer and deadliness of rwd cars is comedic. You dont dare go near the throttle, I even had a stock MX5 with about 115bhp go into an instant 360 spin at 23mph on a mid curve with zero acceleration or braking. I was essentially free wheeling a steady composed car around a corner, it entered smoothly, hit the apex nice and when I was straightening up to get ready to apply the acceleration it whipped around like a top. Now I've had multiple friends and work colleagues own MX5s and not a single one of them crashed or died going under 25mph. So as I say... something it wonky
@@real.p.1 i heard from players versed in the physics saying Comfort Softs were the realistic tires back in GTS, has that changed now in GT7? Should we be moving to Sport Hards?
I did notice that either my compact car has way more grip than sports cars or that something is off lol. Going 170km/h feels like you want to die in some cars when making a slight turn. While in my car I can just floor it steer much more agressive and it drives on just fine without doing 5 360s and starting to fly in the air lol.
@@NormalaatsraThe way I see it... is sport hards are basically equal to a Michelin Pilot Sport 4 or Pilot Super Sports this makes sense when you look at the cars that come with equipped with those tires from the factory like an M3 or M4... then Sport Medium is equal to like a Michelin Sport Cup 2 tires Makes sense when you look at a GT3 RS which comes with Cup 2s... Comfort softs are like your general purpose "SPORTY" tire is used on many commuter common car types... Many of the OLDER Classics come with Comfort Mediums which makes sense just because those tires didn't have the same technology they do today...
I think they just lowered the grip on the base tires because they knew everyone was going to want to upgrade the tires anyways. It was a game balancing decision.
The physics seems to be broken, you will notice this the most with the redbull, when travelling 300kph+ the car will turn sharply left or right with the slightest steering input and it's impossible to counter. you will crash every time. I have noticed this bug with a few other cars which will also crash while breaking from high speed, the Lamborghini aventador being an example. it most certainly has something to do with the aerodynamics physics, I really hope they fix this..
The tyre model sucks quite frankly......the model they used briefly (before they sadly patched it) in GT5 Prologue even rivalled what we were doing in proper PC racing sims at the time, it was superb, sadly that was the only time the tyre model felt awesome in GT. Loads are poorly tied into narrow slip angles, slip peaks and sharply departing curves, all making for the ultimate snap fest when a tiny bit over the limit sadly, which is a shame, as the tyre model feels quite nice until you step over the limit.
I've noticed my car handling completely different in time trials and world circuits. At Daytona oval, my car is glued to the track the whole race during time trials, when using the exact same tune and settings globally, my car locks up and dives to the infield every bank of the world circuit. Super frustrating as someone trying to learn tuning and no assist driving. any insight into this? tried every time of day in time trials. only difference is the dynamic time of day in the world circuit. although some on reddit suggested during trials fuel isnt accounted for
@@tunneltimemusic ya, from what I've seen and discussed with others I think it's the fact that time trial doesn't simulate fuel. I've started tuning in pro arcade races and it hasn't failed yet. Take the same tune into time trials and I can't control it. If I tune in trials it throws off actual race control
not sure if its a factor or not but... in gran turismo 5 the amount of miles your car had done has an effect on power "run in" and the gt sport supra had done a good 350+ kms more than the gt7 one. just another variable.
Where did you find the fuel load for the minis? Some missions don’t seem to let you change your starting fuel load making a one stop impossible as your default petrol is half tank.
Do you think that wind effects are made by moving the whole worldmap (a.k.a the track) by the speed of X meter/sec. in the direction opposite than indicated? :D
i always drove all my cars to all races with no driving aids at all,in gt7 it's impossible.all cars,except a couple of 4wd are out of control once you deactivate them.what the hell?
![fellow fellow - PROUD feat. INK WARUNTORN [STRING QUARTET]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BQrVkMPTdHE/mqdefault.jpg)
Air temp does affect engine power. Did a custom race at Daytona International Speedway. Race started in the evening and transitioned to night. My top speed had increased a couple of MPH by the end of the race compared to when it started.
Was there fuel usage though? If so that would make the car faster. If not it's a good find.
@@kidShibuya One had no fuel and another bot race I did had fuel, but I had to get fuel like 4 times. My lap time were consistently getting faster over the race even with worn out tires.
@@sammyh.748 him much faster? I would expect like 2 tenths overall
@@Sir.Craze- I didn't measure my lap times but I was carrying around 3-4mph extra speed by the end of the back straight for the last couple of laps after it turned night.
@@sammyh.748 interesting. I'll be interested to see much more in debth testing. Can't wait for someone to take on that challenge
GT7 has wind that varies with direction and speed. In Sport, it took them a while to get the traction right, it'll be the same with 7
No youre wrong they added ballast and that effects the snap over steer if its placed right the car doesn't over steer so much
@@eoinm5758 So how does that have anything to do with the wind?
@@eoinm5758 I shouldn't have to add weight to my Ford GT for it to be able to take a very slight curve without throwing itself into a wall.
@@burgerbandit3646 well you do so be stubborn all you want that's on you, people have 600 hp rwd cars and think they shouldn't step out at the back
@@burgerbandit3646 Not as good as you think 🤔
The “wide rims” option just adds a slight amount of sidewall stretch. It’s a cosmetic option of the wheel, not the tire (wide body gets wider tires)
Widebody gets the wheels offset, not wider. Would be good if you had the option to use a wider tyre when using wide rims
About 97% of the world's population says: Thank you for using the metric system.
3% Wth is km?
Not sure he percentage of people who bought this game though....
😂
@@2Beasty i am 80 percent of the gt7 population i live in a country that uses metric
I don’t know if GT Sport had this but I’ve definitely noticed in GT7 that the tyres only start gripping well after 2-3 laps. It seems like they need more time to warm up than they did on GT Sport
It depends on the race type, but yes GT SPort also needed a warmup period, however GT7 is much less forgiving with throttle traction so you notice it much more. If they race type has 7x tire wear for instance like daily race C last week, then the tires also warm up much faster, so maybe half a lap they're warmed up.
I miss how gt5 visually showed you that you had cold tires
@@gokartmozart9430 it still does, but now it just gets a red highlight around the edge.
I prefer the GT5 visual though, an updated version with better colours would have been epic. Along with ACC style tyre simulation
I feel as if GT7 needs to work harder on the top end of grip. In GTS, when cars are pushed hard, you can simply understeer and plow your way through and then throttle to victory, with few exceptions (Mach 1, GT40 and Pantera) but in GT7 they made every car oversteer just about.
The problem with this is that tire slip and tire angle isn't visually or audibly presented in the game. I will take a C7 Corvette ZR1, and as I begin to turn, the car feels like it's on rails until suddenly, grip gives out. On tracks with long turns, Willow Springs for example. Take a street car out, and as you begin to turn, slowly apply more and more throttle until you suddenly spin.
It's unexpected and jarring.
iRacing had this exact same issue in early-mid 2020 and it took actual racecar drivers to complain about it for them to actually get on with fixing it. Every sim I have played illustrates it 1000x better than GT7
Even games like GPL from 1998 show it off exceptionally well and do it better than GT7.
Put ballast in your car if its a MR car put the ballast placed further forward it'll stop the snap oversteer if its a FR car put the ballast to the back the car will be more stable
@@eoinm5758 needed this gonna try to day been working on getting better at tuning
@@yblvani3112 it's not the complete solution but it definitely helps, there's youtube videos about it in MR for example if you put it all the way forward it will be the least likely to spin out but the steering doesn't feel so direct, so experiment move it back until you find the perfect placement to suit you
@@eoinm5758 bet thanks for the tip
@@yblvani3112 hope it helps
The funny thing is, I played the hell out of GT Sport about 2 months before the release, till the day I got my preorder of GT7.
The first thing I've noticed is, UNDERSTEER was mad. I could execute the corners comfortably in GT sport but GT7, I was wailing away off track into the grass.
For a decent while I was more of a lawnmower than a racing driver.
But when the powerful cars came along, oversteer was a mad issue. In GT sport it could easily be controlled into a nice powerslide.
In GT7 however, the driver steers automatically in the opposite direction (yes counter steering was OFF), I don't know why, it never did that in GT Sport. So I'm slamming the analogue in the opposite direction on top, and steering too much then sliding the other way. After I jingled about left and right a few times...I'm in a full blown 360.
I've learned to adapt. Let the game correct it as much as possible, just control throttle and SLIGHT tweak of left stick to correct it. Nothing crazy. Generally I just let it be and control throttle or hit brakes to slow down.
I think the problem is that when it happens, the game realistically makes the wheels "turn" to the opposite direction (when in reality it's the tail of the car turning in relation to the front wheels) but since the player can't feel that input of the steering changing rapidly on its own, it's impossible to react to it. I think it's also a problem with a wheel because the wheel force feedback isn't fast enough to provide that information to the driver which leads to an over correction. Maybe that's not how it works but there definitely is a problem in GT7 and even GT Sport that the player doesn't get enough information to be able to do difficult maneuvers like drifting properly. The more complex and realistic the physics are, the more realistic and fast the steering feedback needs to be.
Dont forget input lag. I played gt on a crt recently with a wheel and omg, it felt like the steering shaft was directly connected to the PlayStation, it was amazing
@@bookshelffury Man dont make me depressed... I still mourn the loss of CRT(and plasma) technology and us being stuck with this inferior technology. Sure you could buy better performing LCDs or OLEds but they are crazy expensive and still slower than CRT and plasma.
The initial grippier launch of the Supra is why it got to the 1100 first, more traction equals more distance covered per tire rotation. I think the main differences aren't in static tire grip, but in the way the physics model deals with lateral grip, and accelerative grip when not planted, like in corner exit. To me, this is more realistic than Sport by a great deal, and after time watching exit speeds, throttle input, steering input and measuring that against what could be done in a real life version of the same, it comes down to the fact that in life, full throttle is reserved for certain moments, and feathering the throttle is much more in line with the way a real car is driven quickly.
Once you take time to get used to it, it is super rewarding and fun. Going back to Sport feels strange, because after playing 7, you can throw a Sport car at anything and full throttle your way out. Not so in 7 by any stretch!
Good video!
Ree why can't I hold throttle down and not have to think about it! Terrible game that doesn't cater to my shallow desires and unwillingness to adapt ree
I've been waiting on a breakdown of the physics in basically every racing game I would love to see the physical representation of what the algorithms are doing but these videos are the next best option and I really hope that this video pans out to be what I think it is
There's a fundamental issue with the way RWD cars accelerate, no amount of tire swapping fixes it. Hopefully they'll fix it.
Ballast fixes it if it's a MR engine put the ballast forward if it's an FR engine put the ballast positioned backwards
It depends of the car imo, and sports (hard) tyres do help a lot. I find GT7 physics much closer to reality then GT Sport, where all cars were too understeered, and there was no reaction when grip suddenly returned.
You need to play around with the fully customisable diff and have very controlled throttle inputs. Or just whack tc on 1.
@@real.p.1 Bingo. It is all about sliding vs static friction.
GT7's physics seems less bias to understeer than previous installments. It makes the cars more active to weight shifting.
I suggest doing straight-line tests in the Route-X back straight tunnel, no wind in there.
I'm interested to see if the wide body affects top speed, as you'd expect the increase in frontal area to reduce it a bit
I did notice this in tuning numbers but the servers were down when I wanted to test it :(
I find GT5=GTSPORT GT6=GT7. Just like GT6, GT7 has more girth to the suspension physics compared to GTSPORT.
I wanted to add a few more tests in this, but that borked update taking the game offline put pay to that.. Place your bets on when GT7 will rise from the dead.
Try some experiments with the gravity physics. That was my thought on why uphill was slower but downhill faster on sport. It seems obvious something is different with gravity as soon as you jump a rally car lol
The understeer is ridiculous. Comfort and sports tyres are very pleasant and intuitive, but as soon as you install slicks BOOM you're all over the barriers
Does GT7 have a 2D g-force graph? It'd be easy to see the tire grip there. From what I've seen here, GT Sport seems to take lateral and longitudinal forces grip limits separately, while the behavior in GT 7 might indicate a more realistic "traction circle"-like tire model.
The Alfa Romeo 4C has one in the car
I think the porsche 917 living legend also has one
The 917 Living Legend has a g-force meter in its dash.
3:53 that is something i also noticed coming from 200+ hrs on gt sport
your throttle management has to be right on the money to get the most out of every corner
another thing i noticed is the physics feeling more vertical, like going over a curb too hard will actually send your car up, as opposed to the car just being pushed up a little in gt sport
Mechanical grip, especially in rear engine or mid engine cars is entirely incorrect in this game. Tire performance overall and traction on race tires is not accurate. Not quite a simcade, but it’s extremely close.
What are you on about? Most cars that are setup properly handle like they’re on rails with the correct inputs.
Interesting video, mate. I’d love to see more in-depth analysis of GT7’s physics.👍
The only thing I know is that the game is extremely frustrating with a controller. I did 100% gold a month ago in GT Sports. I feel like it was the right difficulty. In GT7, it took me 100 tries to gold a sector with three curves.
Controller is pretty solid ofc the wheel is better but the controller up until the super licences it’s not too bad
That’s just because GTS license is too easy comparing to all other gt games
GTS was far too easy. GT7 is easy, other than a couple of tests. But even then it just took nothing more than an hour to gold. Some missions and circuit experiences tho are pretty tough and I think it is about right as far as a challenge goes.
@@ezaike335 The handling of the car also has a lot to do with the feeling on the controller and it can also mess with the time wich can make things harder. That to say that physics and car handling can make things harder wich is the case in gt7.
@@voongnz I found the S licences easy enough to get gold on controller. Some of the circuit experiences are far harder but present a good challenge. I can generally get them done within an hour each. The credit rewards are well worth it now. But man that Bathurst lap in the Mclaren was a bit of a mission…
This video is a great jumping off point for some real testing!
A good easy start, but not exhaustive.
It wasn't the widebody that gave you extra time it was the livery
This video made me feel better. I just thought I was getting old, and was losing my hand-eye coordination, that I had when I was younger.
Put ballast in your car and place it on the opposite end of the car to the engine and it won't snap oversteer as much
@@eoinm5758 should you really have to do that though because PD have made the game too keen to over steer?
It's not you. In a weird way I think the game is making me better in more realistic sim games though. But, yeah it's way too touchy and with lack of a detailed force feedback, it's a bit frustrating to deal with.
@@alexkulp9727 what are you using, PS4 or PS5 controller, or which wheel do you have?
@@MTG69 PS5, don't think console type will make a difference. It's the Fanatec DD Pro. I would say the game only utilizes a small amount of the wheels full potential. It's night and day going from Assetto Corsa to GT7 or Sport.
What GT7 is doing - catering towards casuals and sim racers alike - is what Project CARS 3 failed to ever do. I've had so much fun with GT7 physics and weather/wind speed simulation - so many factors at play without being super complicated.
Some things to consider.
Racing sims apply filters to inputs, any changes here could cause cars to lose grip easier. Without any changes to the physics.
Changing tire attributes or giving more attributes to work with could change the results with no changes to the underlying physics, and vice versa. Same for the suspension.
Physics could run at a higher frequency.
Or any combination of all of the above. So many things can be causing the differences, good luck delineating between everything.
Just a personal pet pev. Engine torque is irrelevant on its own. The gear box is a torque multiplier, which is why less torque at a higher rpm (better gear ratio) can produce more power. HP tells you what combination will produce the most torque where it matters, at the wheels.
Wow Forza Motorsport has been using track temperature to affect their tire physics for a while now lol. The suspension physics look so much more realistic in gt7 than in previous installments though. I always felt that Forza did a much better job with suspension/handling physics but lacked the tire grip that GT simulated. Can’t wait to try gt7 when I get a PS5.
Welcome to GT7
We all hope you enjoy your experience!
Forward always felt like a sponge when I played at my friends house compared to this new gt7
GT7 is the new ice racing.
Air temperature influenced cars’ power since GT4 or even GT3 (that’s where the inconsistency of power/torque data between garage and in-race comes from) and fuel weight was also a case in those PS2 games, so I’m sure for all the other sequels they’ve kept those factors working.
@4:08 I own a 500whp mkv Supra, and if you give it more than about 50% throttle with any kind of steering angle at lower speeds and the back will absolutely come around on you. Actually have a skid pad video on my channel.
Dang, respect to you for making this video. Seriously well done!
Hit thay thumbs up all! The amount of time and effort on this one deserves at least a thumbs up!
I’m glad it’s not only me. It seems like almost every car oversteers in gt7
I like oversteering more than understeering
Practice throttle control lmao
@@Xeno-yy8dz always good to practice but to push a car to it's limit and not beyond in GT7 you need practice in what ever car your using at the time on what ever track and also temperature. Seems easier to slide at night time. Which is where you would expect less grip.
Oversteering feels heaven in FF cars
have you also tried wide body kit with a wide offset and wide rims? i feel like the wide offset is actually what increases track width.
The microtransactions throw all the weight off.
Another amazing video. Thanks for this awesome research! I thought I was the only one who noticed INSTANTLY how different (I think ‘improved’) the physics were over GT Sport…
The best thing about this day and age is that we get games that can be continually improved upon. Since GT7 is a ‘full’ version of a traditional GT game, PD will be paying A LOT of attention to it… so, the fact that we don’t have new cars and tracks yet doesn’t bother me ONE BIT…
…because I’m confident that they’ll be taking the time to continually improve the game at a fundamental level with its services (online play stability, streaming…) and the games physics. I’m also confident they they will be hard at work to ensure that things like furl tank capacity and temperatures DO make a difference.
PD is WELL aware of its competition, and I trust that they will keep their eyes/ears open, while keeping their heads down and plugging away at keeping the game an AMAZING experience.
Long live GT.
Hehehehehe this aged well
@@ChrisStoneinator I’d say so.
:)
@@ChrisStoneinator so because pd hasn't solved/patched out any of these issues in approx 2 short weeks, the devs are a bunch of lazy loosers?
@@sofaking1180 no, since they patched the rate at which you receive credits in the WRONG DIRECTION they're clearly not interested in changing the game for the better.
@@ChrisStoneinator How do you mean? Credits are obtained easily enough now. What direction would you like them to go in?
Thank you for the research!
Our pleasure!
Did some real world tests with a mustang gt in gt7 and mine in real life same tires same sweeping corner same gear same speed same throttle application and in gt7 I was spun around in real life I doubled throttle input and it just went around the corner. Ijs gt7 has alot of work to do
What track did you do it at?
@@smokinC5 not a real track just a very similar corner. Should have specified. It was cold af out as well so if anything more power less grip than the game
@@smokinC5 I'd like to do track to track but the only 3 somewhat close to me aren't in gt7
@@jrock9195 i have to agree, the physics are off big time. I have had my vette in some pretty agressive turns in autox and such, and gt7 feels like im driving in snow and ice lol
@@smokinC5 it's crazy idk where they get these physics from. Granted idk what exactly sport soft tires are in gt7 but I had cold 50% tread pilot sport 4s. Mayb that's a medium in gt7 and soft is a r888 or something who knows
So the top speed differences could be a better aerodynamic model in GT7 which more accurately models air resistance. Also take not GT7 has a wind model and I don't think Sport has any wind at all.
I'm starting to think people use the word 'torque,' in situations where the word 'power' is correct, because it sounds cooler than power.
understeer differences into corner and power oversteer on the way out could easily be differences in the modelling of braking / acceleration on downward force on tyres (the effects of car pitch in corners) and the modelling of tyre surface contact (affected by roll). The tyres could technically have the same characteristics, but a different modelling of the forces at each tyre / tyre contact surface during cornering updates the overall tyre slippage.
Thank you for using the correct metrics! (km/h)
Perfect ending, another great video my friend!
Wow, great work! How do you ensure the track runs are identical?
You should do a video called “why does GT7 sound like someone shitting inside of a hollow can” I’ve heard straight piped Hondas that sound better than half the cars in this game😂
All tyre data for GTSport and GT7 is provided by Michelin to keep performance consistent on track. I expect the grip is more realistic than before.
I've noticed my R32 GTR is always overheating. I was wondering what was up with that
No point of comparing that what is nonexistent in both GT7 and Forza series. Both are simcades and I bet the physics are made deliberately simple there, as no one will want to buy another rFactor 2. On your example in Tsukuba, when you exit slow hairpin (just before the long straight), on any RWD vehicle with about 200-250 HP, if you don't do weird things with steering wheel, the car will have no slide and will be very stable in reality. What I think was done, is that some product manager \ game designer told programmers "Alright, we need to get more fun into the game... lets make cars oversteer more!". And everybody was like "Yeeeeh, you nailed it!".
Microtransactions seems to be heavier on GT 7 xD
My biggest complaint with this game is the hud. The Music rally gauges need to be an option.
more than tyre performance, the main factor might be the increased shifts in tyre loads through cornering.
😮
@@OofedOofer the science
Wind-Speed is an aspect, especially important at Route-X.
You can see in the launch test how the Sport Supra has more turbo pressure somehow
Thrustmaster T300 + Wheel Stand Pro V2 + IKEA Poäng 💟
That was my first impression - Holy understeer then snap oversteer!
i like the balance feel of under and oversteer in gt5, gt6 instead of crazy oversteer in gt7
I still say the grip in GT7 is wonky.
The snap oversteer and deadliness of rwd cars is comedic.
You dont dare go near the throttle, I even had a stock MX5 with about 115bhp go into an instant 360 spin at 23mph on a mid curve with zero acceleration or braking.
I was essentially free wheeling a steady composed car around a corner, it entered smoothly, hit the apex nice and when I was straightening up to get ready to apply the acceleration it whipped around like a top.
Now I've had multiple friends and work colleagues own MX5s and not a single one of them crashed or died going under 25mph.
So as I say... something it wonky
Using Sports - Hard tyres instead of Comfort makes all cars drive more realistic.
@@real.p.1 i heard from players versed in the physics saying Comfort Softs were the realistic tires back in GTS, has that changed now in GT7? Should we be moving to Sport Hards?
@@Normalaatsra Well that's my personal opinion, but I have to add that I also used Sports Hard in GT Sport.
I did notice that either my compact car has way more grip than sports cars or that something is off lol.
Going 170km/h feels like you want to die in some cars when making a slight turn. While in my car I can just floor it steer much more agressive and it drives on just fine without doing 5 360s and starting to fly in the air lol.
@@NormalaatsraThe way I see it... is sport hards are basically equal to a Michelin Pilot Sport 4 or Pilot Super Sports this makes sense when you look at the cars that come with equipped with those tires from the factory like an M3 or M4... then Sport Medium is equal to like a Michelin Sport Cup 2 tires Makes sense when you look at a GT3 RS which comes with Cup 2s... Comfort softs are like your general purpose "SPORTY" tire is used on many commuter common car types... Many of the OLDER Classics come with Comfort Mediums which makes sense just because those tires didn't have the same technology they do today...
Jumps in rally is bullllshiitttt
Yeah but when you watch it as a replay it is pretty funny.
Anything is GT rally is stupid. The physics leave a sour taste in my mouth
I hate how the cars "roll" just from steering at low speeds. Cars are so jittery now when steering.
This is an excellent analysis. Thank you so much!
the real driving simulator.
Regardless. I'm used to Forza. This appears to be astronomically better in every way. Which may be reason enough to get a ps5.
Test the hybrid system simulation in GT7!
I think they just lowered the grip on the base tires because they knew everyone was going to want to upgrade the tires anyways. It was a game balancing decision.
arcade and not even close to a real simulator but I do have fun with it
Clearly alot of changes were made! I really feel i have more control over wheel speed too.
Can you compare the tyre model to hardcore sims?
I am not playing this game untill they fix the goddamn physics in rwd and 4wd cars
Gt4 is the masterpiece of this series they've gone backwards ever since
i luckily come from AC so it wasnt that big of a deal
Awesome comparing video. Is there the BeamNG review on the next to do list?
The physics seems to be broken, you will notice this the most with the redbull, when travelling 300kph+ the car will turn sharply left or right with the slightest steering input and it's impossible to counter. you will crash every time. I have noticed this bug with a few other cars which will also crash while breaking from high speed, the Lamborghini aventador being an example. it most certainly has something to do with the aerodynamics physics, I really hope they fix this..
thats setup man, reduce front downforce increase rear
@@GG-bt2fs Already tried that, bug still continues
@@CimmerianShiro damn
Brilliant work/research. Great video.
Thanks for the effort.
I've never flipped my car so many times. I love it.
Did you re equip the wide tyre after doing the widebody kit? In my experience it reverts to regular tyre after fitting widebody.
Is there any way to disable those sunlight reflections on bodykit and wheels? They're WAY too strong and unrealistic...
The tyre model sucks quite frankly......the model they used briefly (before they sadly patched it) in GT5 Prologue even rivalled what we were doing in proper PC racing sims at the time, it was superb, sadly that was the only time the tyre model felt awesome in GT.
Loads are poorly tied into narrow slip angles, slip peaks and sharply departing curves, all making for the ultimate snap fest when a tiny bit over the limit sadly, which is a shame, as the tyre model feels quite nice until you step over the limit.
instant snap, almost every single time. Getting tired of it really. It's starting to take the enjoyment out of this game for me.
This game has a shitty tyre model, but it doesn't make GT5 Prologue any more realistic
If youre in a higher gear with lower power, yes youll lose speed instead of maintaining or gaining with high rpm power
Widebody mini is beefy 😍
I've noticed my car handling completely different in time trials and world circuits. At Daytona oval, my car is glued to the track the whole race during time trials, when using the exact same tune and settings globally, my car locks up and dives to the infield every bank of the world circuit. Super frustrating as someone trying to learn tuning and no assist driving.
any insight into this? tried every time of day in time trials. only difference is the dynamic time of day in the world circuit. although some on reddit suggested during trials fuel isnt accounted for
Really? I’m getting the opposite where I’m good in time trials but on the race I spin a bunch.
@@tunneltimemusic ya, from what I've seen and discussed with others I think it's the fact that time trial doesn't simulate fuel. I've started tuning in pro arcade races and it hasn't failed yet. Take the same tune into time trials and I can't control it. If I tune in trials it throws off actual race control
The ending 😅😅
is there a tyre temperature model ? Do we know what type of tyre model they are using ?
You could do the tests on the licenses there is no wind there
not sure if its a factor or not but... in gran turismo 5 the amount of miles your car had done has an effect on power "run in" and the gt sport supra had done a good 350+ kms more than the gt7 one. just another variable.
What about rolling resistance, that is very critical as far as I know.
Where did you find the fuel load for the minis? Some missions don’t seem to let you change your starting fuel load making a one stop impossible as your default petrol is half tank.
Nice! And finally cars are not glued to road!!
😂🤣
the turbo boost is different on the two games for some reason
it could be rolling resistance for the first test
The Real driving simulator guys its more than a game
the car shift to the right when the winds blow from the right? doesnt make much sense
Feels much better than GT Sport. Closer to GT6
Why not look at the obvious, boost and gearing? One is a higher gear with more boost (and on it's powerband), and one isn't.
Do you think that wind effects are made by moving the whole worldmap (a.k.a the track) by the speed of X meter/sec. in the direction opposite than indicated? :D
I felt gt7 was way worse than sport, I was so disappointed cause I loved sports handling
Handling is generally much better in GTS than in 7. The same car can be worlds apart in the two games.
i always drove all my cars to all races with no driving aids at all,in gt7 it's impossible.all cars,except a couple of 4wd are out of control once you deactivate them.what the hell?
Great video. And thanks for putting the game name on the screen for me.
can anyone logically explain what is the purpose of suggested gear in all GT series?
the POWA 💥
Because its a game you'll never get it to feel like real life