As of Update 1.13, the outcome of this test might differ. With the extra rear traction given to cars in the physics update, I would suggest trying every new car with TC at '0' and only setting it to '1' if you absolutely can't tune that behavior out of it. Bon chance!
@@ln1152you don’t need one, follow what the above comment said. The same applies. Drive and push the car and tune to get it driving the way you’re comfortable with with TC off and apply TC if necessary.
@@Jayboy1983 I've Driven A lot of rear-wheel-drive cars over the years On and off the Track... In no way is GT7s Handling Model even remotely indicative of reality.
@@Chrisrd75 me too, I go on track fairly regularly with a variation of fairly high powered rear drive cars, no game is reality, but the understeer oversteer is a thing. you may not be driving as fast as you think you are in real life
@@Jayboy1983 ehhh Iv taken a 800hp 2006 Corvette zo6 to over 300km/ hour, though I'll admit that that was a monster. But my point still stands, no car Iv ever driven kicks 90 degrees at 100km/hour around a gentle curve at 10-20% throttle.... Something of a regular accurence in GT7. I'm getting use to it but I really don't know how anyone can argue the rear grip models are off, in some cases dramatically. Yes there are a thousand variables. But so many of the rear wheel drive cars in GT7 behave like this that I'm confident saying it's a general "problem" and not an isolated one.
I about fell out of my chair when he said that turning the countersteering assist off made the cars way more driveable.. maybe just that my g29 doesn't give enough feedback but I thought the game physics were shit until I put countersteering back. I think it's on "weak" now. I felt like an F1 driver "this is LITERALLY undriveable!" except that it actually was undriveable lol
@@EhEhEhEINSTEIN I haven’t tried the counter steering assist. I turned them all off right away. It’s not because of going faster or slower with/without assists. It just forces me to learn better throttle/brake modulation as I am weak in that department.
as a person who’s always played drift modes in any game, it’s pretty easy for me to deal with oversteer in this game. I drive with Tc at 0-1 depending on the car. High power V8 you’re asking for it if you go 0. But most times i can hit a turn literally sliding but keeping speed so my times are better
I agree with your sentiments on the physics model and how it reacts to throttle on corner exit. I own a 2017 Shelby GT350, and if my car handled anything like the one in GT7 does, I would not be alive to write this comment.
Agreed. I have a 99 Mk4 Supra and tc1 in gt7 reacts more like TC off in my car. TC0 in GT7 makes the Supra very snappy, borderline unrealistic. I think many road vehicles don't really have traction control fully turned off when you do it? Tc0 in gt7 feels like a hardwired traction control off in a car, perhaps.
I agree. And I think that the tire traction model is off, too. I have to slap race tires on my wrx sti, to somewhat recreate the traction level of my real sti on semis.
Same for me, I own a 500bhp R32 GTR with 2WD/4WD switch, I try to recreate my car in GT7 like I do in GT Sport and I'ts very difficult to have the same driving filling in GT7. I have to put the TC to 1 to get something near my GTR. But in GT Sport, it's almost the same driving reaction with no aids.
My rule for abs is if the car has it in real life then its staying on regardless. Its hard enough balancing the throttle with tc off nevermind trying to balance the brakes too.
some games have the assist level 'factory', where it applies whatever the car has irl, id really love that cause i dont realy fancy changing the setting on ABS
The cars in this game are really weird. There is no slip angle and instead, you're forced constantly under the limit. Instead of a grip curve, it's like a grip _cliff._
very much this. slip angle barely exists and it's only really a thing in awd platforms, can't really reliably use it on rwd compared to something like AC even.
whats funny, if you go to the driving aids and read the bottom scrolling description, they actually describe the brake cones and say its an option even though its not
Remember in this game MR and RR are really sensitive on the rear end, the TCS off will make you faster only if you are able to control it, but in a race you have multiple stuff to pay attention to, controlling your throttle input to that extent will be a distraction, so yeah in some cars you can remove it easy in others don't do it unless you're a masochist and want to master no TCS driving in hard cars
If you are serious about the competitive side of this game then you probably need to focus on certain cars and get to know them in and out to drive them without any assists it definitely improves laptimes.
Also the race car tuned gr4, gr3 and gr1 cars are a lot easier to manage traction than road cars. TC basically never kicks in on some of the gr3 cars or lmp1 cars.
@@Delimon007 No car is made to race with TC. In real life you would have very tiny amount of TC in GT style races to avoid spinning out if you are too much on the Kerbs or hit a spot with a lit of rubber. You would then turn up he TC when it gets wet. Driving most non-sports car and supercars without TC is a death sentence, if you can turn it off then it is for drag racing only. Only Sports Car's (the road versions of the race cars) can actually handle without TC. But only because the power to weight ratio and tires means that you need to be very careful as the cars will be super understeery in general.
@@YekouriGaming "No car is made to race with TC" Literally all the GT class cars are made to race with traction control and do so irl. Most race cars are currently using TC other than F1 cars 😂 The cars are literally built with TC in mind, including sports cars IRL which use TC to control the car. Do you not understand how sophisticated these computers systems are or are you just a casual gamer who doesn't understand how these systems actually work and function?
@@YekouriGaming FYI these are literal racing series where they use factory traction control: WEC, IMSA, Blacnpain, 24hr series All of these allow traction control and the cars are built from the factory to use TC. You have no idea what you are talking about 😂
I can agree with your trackday maniac friends as well Ermin. I’ve driven a range of Ferrari challenge cars. Not quite GT3, maybe closer to GR4 in GT7. Either way, in the challenge cars we always drive with the TC set to off because it’s way too intrusive when making corner exits. It cuts power as you blend back into the throttle just from the normal speed differential you have between left and right wheels due to the inner tire traveling less distance. With traction control off there is no sliding and no wheel spin unless you push the car too hard and make it spin. So I figured this would be true if I made a replica F430 Challenge in GT7, complete with the actual alignment angles from an F430 challenge I setup recently…. No luck in that department, the rear end goes for an overtake every time you touch the throttle coming out of corners lol TC set to 1 and it drives like a dream! So definitely some balancing needed to the upper limit side of the grip model to make it a more gradual loss of grip instead of the insta-snap we get now. I always enjoy your content and it’s interesting to see a video on this topic. Keep up the awesome work, you’re a true legend! Sending much love from the US!!
I think I agree for every singer car set tc to 1 and keep abs at default. Is the best real life settings you can get. I drive mostly the race cars and gt cars or and super cars. Or I like those the most.
@@michaelschneider1365 For sure, keeps you from pirouetting at each apex but let’s you slide it around just enough to be comfortable with a little slip angle through the corners
There is a massive difference between default and weak ABS, almost as much as if ABS was turned off. ABS default, allows you to turn easily, during braking, hence it is an assist. ABS weak, is close to how ABS is actually simulated, and ABS off is, how the brakes work without ABS. You can still understeer with ABS set to weak, but ABS default is akin to having 'magic brakes'.
Dude, this elitest knob has put no time in to work this stuff out. He is doing this for views.... It's gt7. You can clearly see how he comes across as talking shit about this "arcade game"
When he said there was basically no difference between Weak and Default ABS in GT7 it set my expectations low. There’s a huge difference between them. Default auto trail-brakes for you and eases out of pressure based on how hard you’re trying to turn in. It’s a massive assist. Low only frees up an under-rotating wheel and is agnostic of steering angle or cornering effort. With Default you can treat brakes pretty much like a binary input and still get easy corner entry. With Low you need to modulate it. It’s no wonder he struggled so much with ABS off if he’s used to ABS Default in GT7.
@@michaelschneider1365nothing about ABS Default is realistic. The behaviour of ABS Low logically behaves closer to real ABS. ABS Default is more akin to brake vectoring and is aware of steering wheel angle and cornering intentions. You don’t require any finesse on the brakes outside of the initial application timing and perhaps how and when you let off. No modulation between pressure and steering input is required at all as it is with ABS Low/Off.
Great video. I feel the same about TC being on 0 and 1. 1 is way more consistent but 0 gives opportunity to a bit faster laps. Although for races, I find it too risky on most cars. For 4WD cars, I mostly put TC on 0 though.
Kinda unrelated, but... Ever since GT Sport, you could do a "trick" to get a near perfect start in every grid start race, that trick being using the MFD to put the TC at any value before the start, and then turning it off once you get into 2nd/3rd gear, you could also do this trick in 5 and 6, but it's nowhere near as fast to do. Some might call this cheating, but the game never really has any idea of it Best use i could find is for those Sport mode races with everyone having 1 specified car, usually filled with noobs and rammers, can get you a bit out of the pack (especially at Tsukuba, where currently there is a Clio Trophy race)
You can do that in gt7 if the car is equipped with adjustable TC. Brake bias helps too, but that's also dependent on the car, and if it has brake balance control
This has been a known thing forever now by competitive racers. However there are ways to get a faster launch but it’ll require a lot, and I mean a lot of practice.
@@lonedri2890 When weak I just cannot get the tires to ever lock, and ok, it's the best ABS system ever. But to say that you can panic break pretty much at any point with no consequence gets boring. Just by having the ABS on allows you to win to the IA with zero hassle. In weak at least you should not be allowed to be stupid with the input. Plus, in the license tests, honestly I might be used to ABS off now, but I am faster on the driving tests with everything off. You can break extremely well and trail break with ABS off, that's no problem, as you can also be smooth coming off turns with TCS off. There are three very gratifying things to me about ABS off. 1. You can definitely feel the weight distribution of the car, and you must respect it, and you can use it!. 2. Most cars have a complete different breaking sensitivity to the input, it's amazing to get to know better the car you're driving. 3. The experience of the career mode is actually interesting. But, of course there is some folks that just want to arcade their way through. I just get bored that way. Much prefer having to be precise or be out. I use Pad also. Half millimeter makes a difference.
@@BastianUllr It’s fairly realistic with it off, just play around with the brake balance and ballast settings. You can get some seriously OP cars if you can perfect your setups. Also it seems like your damper settings affect braking performance ever so slightly as well. It takes quite some time if you’re not really familiar with how it works, but it’s 100% worth the time investment.
I run all assists off except in license tests. If you watch the license test how to videos in the game, theyre running all assists to set those times in the game.
I’m finding exactly the same results ... basically undrivable.... I’ve has to really go to town on the suspension settings and diff just to keep the car from spinning without the assists ... never ever used previously but in the version I’m forced to if I just want take out a random car casually and don’t want to give up time tuning
Hi yall, when i got gt7 i would've never dreamed of turning off every assists except abs, is surprisingly simple once you get used to it, just now im attempting formula 1 races without assists and it is pure adrenaline, could never go back its too fun this way
This is the kind of stuff I do in my racing games. I’ll go online with friends and occasionally ranked or serious races. But I have the most fun busting out hot laps trying different things and with crazy cars. Just so nice for an average person to go out and drive cars which you normally wouldn’t even come close to owning in person. Great content and you make sim racing fun. Something that seems to be lost among a lot of players. To many people thinking they’ll be the next Lewis Hamilton of Iracing leagues and such. More people need to just remember these are “games” that are supposed to be “fun”.
From my experience use TC when launching, TC1 is enough and turn it off a second after you launched. This prevents wheelspin but doesn't take away your power for too long. ABS imo can always stay on :)
Also a big difference is that the maxda had "Comfort Soft" tyres and the KTM has "Racing Hard" tyres equipped! I would suggest trying the same again with the same tyres on both cars 👌
I played GT Sport with only abs on default for years and years , was a B rated driver and could do some drifting too. - Both on controller and G29 Once I got GT7 i could barely string a few corners together with no assists for over a week, however I stuck with it, and am now able to reliably complete menu books on all gold (just finished the rally one) and I have gotten gold on every licence (still busy with the final S rain lap with 917K) what I am saying is, it just takes time and getting used to . Smoother inputs, and a more relaxed drive. I will attempt Sport mode when I'm done with most of career.
This ^. Can't expect to master it in a few laps, takes time to build the muscle memory, whether or not it improves lap time is irrelevant to me, enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of getting quick with no TC
I hoped they would fix this overly happy tail behaviour from GT Sport. It always seemed like the tires are more like wooden blocks instead of rubber, at least when it comes to longitudinal grip.
I was never upset that in early gt you couldn't turn off abs. I wouldn't have touched it anyway, but for all my high hp cars 500hp+ I usually put tc on 1
Had the same thing with the T300 GT edition. Its just marketing, they don't adapt the wheel for GT at all. Its just a sticker. GT is always a bitch that you cant alter any settings or calibrations. The GT-T300 has a rubber brake mod, which works awesome in most games if you calibrate the pedales with that mod in the place you like it. But for GT you have to pretty much remove it or you don't get to full braking because the mod stops you earlier. No way to calibrate that on a GT-Edition wheel. Its scum sucking marketing.
@@JL-cn1qi My T300 GT pedal works perfectly fine with the rubber stopper installed. You'd notice the brake not reaching 100% for the first few brakes but after that the pedal would self calibrate and I'd get 100% braking always. It's actually a hardware feature of this pedal IIRC that it self calibrates no matter the travel.
I agree the ABS off just feels fake/unrealistic I don't know how I can instantly lock up at 140mph. And when you loose the rear it feels like the tyres are plastic... Been playing since its release but last night I moved my rig back over to the PC, ACC is miles ahead
I wondered this with GT3 and GT4 cars. I had abs off from the start and i was strugling like hell in the races. I was basically last in every race. Today i put abs to weak and immediatly i was in pos 5-10 battles and no problem to keep up. Feels like night and day difference. ABS off locks brakes so easily even when i push pedal very slightly... That maybe would be fun if everyone else would have same settings. I have fanatec DD pro with pedals so they should be spot on to this game. Feels like abs weak and all other assist off is the way for me.
They want you to play with the suspension tuning to find the sweet spot. I've played with the Porsche GT3 suspension settings and it's nearly how a GT3 should handle, the rear now doesn't want to overtake the front on every bend. I only have TC on with cars that are a nightmare to handle with limited down force. A non GT3 Corvette rear is a nightmare as the license test at Willow Springs highlights, it's impossible to do it without TC I found after many many many tries before I realised the demonstration even has TC on!
What I noticed while using the X Bow without ABS or traction control (one of my favorite vehicles of all time) is that you can't steer while braking, so you have to completely finish braking before you turn, also don't go hard on throttle during turns cause without traction your car will start Tokyo drifting without your consent. (This is a year later, so they may have fixed the car, but thats just what I noticed).
You have to understand how ABS works to understand why your brakes are locking up even with light application. An ABS pump modulates the breaks, basically like pumping the brakes in rapid succession. In the old days before ABS driving instructors said to pump the brakes if the car starts to skid. On GT7 when I run without ABS that's exactly what I do, I pump the breaks going into a corner and it works flawlessly. Of course, I don't play the game for a leg workout so I use ABS.
I’ve personally started playing without any assists on and I started out really struggling but the more that I’ve gotten use it the more I’ve gotten consistent with it. It is worth noting I modded my Logitech pedals with a load cell mod though
that a really great practical representation of what I found when I was testing. I don't know whether ABS in GT7 is fantastic or whether the tire/lock-up model is so bad... Always ABS Default. TC0 is fastest, but has danger, the safety net of TC1 isn't too prohibitive, certainly a lot less than it was in GT Sport
The lockup seems similar to like every car being a F1 car. Like even a road sports car will lock up just as fast as a F1 car that has super high load on the wheel. It is pretty cool that you can change TC on the fly through the mfd, you certainly need TC1 when driving on wet tracks with slicks. Or when driving with a huge Horsepower car like the Shelby GT350
Neat video, and thanks for sharing…. I’ve found however that sinking a few credits into any car will greatly improve the driving quality. Racing tires (I prefer the medium most times) are first to have an impact on lap times. After that, racing suspension. I’ve found varying the natural frequency front to back (softer in the front, harder in the back) will improve the cornering ability. Also play around with the downforce settings. I also always use the racing transmissions to set a top speed that lets the use all the gears and produce a spirited ride.
I use a controller with the right stick for acelleration and braking. With TC on 1, countersteer off and abs default best I got was 1:12.2 with an average of about 1:12.8 With the TC off I got a 1:11.8 with the average around 1:12.4. Definitely a lot more work and with the controller, throttle controle is tricky at best of times.
Adjusting force feedback helps be a little smoother which for me increases lap times slot, I also change pedal calibration and dead zone with the lighter faster cars to help breaking
just a fact from a gt drifter. you will need brake alot under drift and putting it to weak or off helps keeping the drift aswell as exstending corners ;)
This is the only gt I haven’t played but it’s interesting watching people like yourself have a crack. Also interesting topic of video, this somewhat translates to real life also, as a driver coach one of the first things most clients would ask me is too turn the assists off, id always recommend keeping all the systems on as they are that good these days they actually benefit you by having them on and they help you drive fast with making repeatability and consistency easier, which also adds more safety naturally.
“I bet you were waiting for this as much as I am.” With a statement like that, I was waiting for you to cue the Benny Hill background music 😂. Excellent video. Thank you.
I been playing this game with the ABS off cause you use Threshold Braking plus using brake controller to make the car lock more on the rear to get a better cornering technique
Me as a AC player always recommends putting traction control off or in a slippery setting (some cars have up to 15 levels) and ABS in factory most realistic option possible. Driving like this gives me on Spa or other tracks incredible curve speed and GT2 cars without abs don‘t loose much stopping distance as the force on the wheels is soo high that they can’t block at higher speeds (sometimes breaking balance has to be adjusted as the front tyres are often blocking earlier and damaging the brakes or blocking the steering). Also the cars do loose grip very easily when using no TC but that’s using a x-bow nothing unusual as the car is light = less grip and has high HP with a good amount of Nm. As soon as the Nm > wheel grip the motor begins to rev high and makes the rear falling out of line it is very realistic and gives the driver the option to slide the car throughout corner and lean the back a little sideways to get better acceleration at the end of the curve.
Btw I am using on PC a T150 (weak wheel) and the T-LCM so on breaking I might have a small advantage but my steering is way less sensitive and therefore I get the feeling of the tyres slipping way later then your direct drive wheel is able to provide to you
I appreciate the time you put into this test. I've experienced similar with F/R cars, and M/R cars especially, so much so that I avoid driving them unless I have to. I got particularly frustrated with the Porsche Cafe Menu trials. Managed to get through it, but it made me stop playing for a few days, lol. I hope Polyphony can fix this, otherwise it's gonna end up being one more reason people will avoid GT7.
In GT6 i only used ABS on u or 8 to brake very late,no TCS no skid control and I maximazed lap times way over than many ppl,it's all about making good setup for suspension for good exiting speed from corners and weight balance to optimize braking.
The setting being missed here that needs adjusting is the Fully Customizable Limited Slip Differential in the car settings. (Which you have to buy to add to the car in GT Auto) as well as Fully Customizable Suspension and the wheel camber settings.
I turned off all the assists but ABS off while playing with controller on GT Sport....and I would swear that in missions even with counter steering turned off....the game would countersteer...it never bumped my mind to check the replay as I wanted to finish the missions in two days as quick as possible before GT7 :D
Completely agree about the handling model, even the stable Nissan GTR likes spinning out exiting corners. That’s the same car that gave Jeremy Clarkson whiplash exiting a corner…
Completely agree with the state of RWD cars, there's a fundamental flaw in the programming that needs to be fixed. With the ABS, the way it's programmed, luckily emulates ABS systems in modern cars. If you've ever driven late 80's/mid-90's cars with ABS, those systems were usually absolute garbage, more likely to cause a crash than prevent one. In real life, when you drive a car without ABS, you can feel just before the wheels lock up and let up on the brake pedal, with a game you don't get that feeling, you're relying on audio and visual cues to try to let you know when you need to let off a bit.
You should keep an eye on the gear you're at. Instead of oversteering full power coming out of a corner on second gear kicking in highrev, stick it into third gear, that should help.
Leave ABS as default but use the TC the way ppl do in ACC for example where it’s on 1 until corner exit then you switch to TC 0 for the traction then flick it back to 1 before the next corner
I pretty much use 1 level of TCS for any of the following... +1 RWD +1 High HP (usually around 700 HP) +1 torrential rain So for instance, driving a 750 hp c63 in a storm on Nurnbergring, I'm using TCS 3. At the same time, a 450 HP AWD Mitsubishi GTO on dry Tokyo and I have assists off. In most racing games I have all assists off, but the driving model in GT7 just gets crazy when power gets dialed up on a rwd car. (I'm using a CSL Elite wheel)
Agree with you, Cars don't behave that way in RL, maybe if you have some really bad tires, but thats not the case in GT7. Hope they'll fix some physics.
Yea, they don’t feel like the rear bunkers down, digs in, increases traction and launches. There’s that limit with too much torque, but within ranges, it digs in when exiting corners.
I tested this a bit myself and took the standard KTM around the circuit. I am using the controller, not the wheel, and I have to say the KTM is a bit tricky. But I always turn off TCS in the dry, and if the car is setup right, it is not a problem. The car is a bit more loose, but that makes it easier to correct when it slides. If a car with TCS slides, you can't correct it with power. With the controller though, for me the abs off does not work, I have it on weak. Btw, don't sell yourself short, I can't do your times with the standard KTM, don't know your setup, and maybe the wheel does help a bit. About other assists, I noticed that sometimes the AI takes a very different line then the yellow dotted line, and gained lots of speed with that. And it worked for me, too. Also, the brake zone, depending on the corner, it is often better to brake sooner, sometimes later, and the suggest gear is often to low. With some balls you can keep speed and stick to 3, and it suggest to go to 2, needing to brake more, and hitting the rev limiter instantly when exiting the corner. Also, powerful cars don't need to go back to 1, all you get is wheel spin and instant rev limiter.
Seems to be a per case basic with TC and cars. Some 0 is best. Most 1. But, some I loose and spin on exit at 2 sometimes 3. Seems very varied by car and whether your a lead foot or not. Hard with logitec G923 pedals to modulate Interesting to see your take and confirm some of my thoughts. Thanks Ermin
Kazunori Yamauchi winner in his class in the 24H of Nurburgring created GT because of his love for cars and racing. The man knows how real life (race) cars handle, and I'll take his word over any sim racer with no actual racing experience and friends that do trackdays with cars that almost drive themselves like the 4WD Hurracan, the handling of Lamborghini's have been going downhill ever since they introduced 4WD on the Diablo. With the exception of the Gallardo Balboni wich was real wheel drive.
Is this why the 1.13 update radically changed the way RWD cars act on power? Was it perfect before or after? Was Kaz involved before or after? They seem mutually exclusive, so answer carefully.
@@Ermz Not one game or in this case sim is perfect, but you can always make it better when you find out where something doesn't work right. Or are you telling me all cars in Assetto Corsa were perfectly balanced and never needed a fix?
After learning the curve's. I've put down my fastest times with it off...scored gold on licenses where i couldn't before with it off...albeit some 1000hp cars are absolutely ridiculous at o. My model so far is above 750hp. Trac 1 under 750 run zero and practice throttle control..and maintain control under breaking. Also I use a controller...
I feel that they intentionally have the heavy MR/FR oversteer bias to make the LSD upgrades feel worth it at this point......because once you buy and use the fully tunable LSD the ability to control the 400-700PP RWD road cars become much more controllable.
This! MR and FR cars NEED their LSD settings modified in order to drive them! I actually really enjoy MR and FR cars much more now that I’ve learned to tune them. The problem though lies in online BoP races where you cannot adjust any of the cars settings which IMO is extremely stupid
You took the words out of my mouth!! I feel like GT needs to change their acceleration sensitivity or you have to put a damper kicked onto the accelerator pedal, it sucks
I never use traction control or abs and the trick is at high speeds 100% break anything below around 90-100mph is 75% break then through a corner it’s 15% break in the game it’s super easy to lock up during trail breaking it’s tricky but once you get the hang of it it’s almost hard to go back to abs
In my experience most gt3 cars are fine with TC off. I keep tc off unless driving in the wet (I use LSD for TC). I agree with you on the realism.. Non of my cars react the way they do in GT 7.
Settings I have off : Transmission manual Traction control off Active Stability Management off Counter steering assistant off (u can’t turn off this 2 while driving)
That is the point, this game can't simulate the tires properly and you can't drive without assists, especially ABS. Can you imagine being obliged to drive a 60/70's car with ABS?
Should do it the other way around. Get as fast as you can get (within a reasonable amount of time) then see how much the settings slow you down. Or just break the sessions up over a few days, if you didn't already do that. So each session can be done fresh.
Like it or hate it, Countersteer Assist exists in GT7 and should be included in any holistic assessment of assists. Having already set benchmarks for TC off here, I'd love to see those same settings (TC off, ABS default) tested with the various CA settings in the same cars, track and conditions. I think the results might be surprising, especially for the X-Bow.
Just a suggestion but maybe dont immediately go to 3/4 throttle when not using tc? If you watch your throttle inputs, a lot of the oversteer issues happen when you are not gentle on the throttle. When you are more gentle your exits are a lot smoother. To clarify what i mean by gentle: a progressive increase of throttle up to the traction threshold based of speed and turning angle. If you hammer the pedal to half throttle very quickly, you are more likely to lose traction and spin. If instead you press the pedal to half throttle more gradually, you compress the rear springs and load the rear tires, making the car a lil more stable giving the tires a much better chance of keeping traction. Just food for thought. Its not impossible to drive high horsepower rwd cars without traction control. It is, however, difficult to get used to having to be that careful with the throttle. After some practice it can become something you dont have to think about anymore. Whether or not this is faster depends in you and the car so its still worth trying tc 1 and tc 0 in every car. But i do recommend practicing with tc 0 so you arent not completely reliant on tc to save you from your lead foot.
I feel like they made GT7 more towards tuning and or aero. Tuning and aero can get rid of all the problems, obviously to an extent. Feel like the game rewards ultra smooth driving too as opposed to just chucking it in and slamming the throttle, which kinda sucks but also good in a way? Idk just my thoughts.
Hi,after some testing with the dd pro on gt7, could you please give us a feedback on the FFB? After some testing between gt7 and gt sport, there is clearly a big lack in detail in every aspect of the FFB. Gt sport feels perfect btw. What's your thought about this?
What I found is that the cars that have driver assists irl drive much better when you turn it on and the cars that don’t drive better without them. Gr.1 cars are much more drivable without abs (which is banned irl) compared to gt sport
You did a single first lap with TC, and then 3 laps without TC. After getting a fraction second faster on a second lap you announce your "already faster with the TC off." However, you have to factor in your running startup for lap 2 with TC off otherwise the TC lap is at a disadvantage in comparison.
What settings do you use on your Fanatec CSL DD? Have you experimented with different sensitivity levels (steering wise), like 540 and 720 instead of AUTO? Because I feel I can the slides a lot better with 540!
I have not played gran turismo 7, but less steering wheel rotation angle makes it easier to prevent spins, cause you can countersteer faster, while making your driving less smooth and precise than ot higher rotation
With the diff and the suspension I have been able to tune the oversteer out of every single car I've come across with the tcs on 0 and abs off or some cars I put it on weak.. I'm on a controller as well also throttle control is a skill one must master to take any oversteer
Good to finally see someone talk about how poorly the cars handle getting back on power in GT7. I don't personally have the funds to get a PS5 or wheel and pedals, and trying to put super small inputs on the PS4 controller with no feedback makes everything feel completely undrivable compared to GT Sport.
@@HandlesSuck123 in normal races I don't mind the oversteer as much, but trying to gold all the licenses tests with either 0 grip or 0 power out of the corners is about to break my sanity 🤣
So I have noticed that tc can be manipulated throughout the lap.. don't get me wrong I'm not very good. But in current daily race 2. Took 1.5s off my lap by taking off tc completely - but that is in the 4wd mazda.. and in daily race 1 (the karts) I use tc 0 for all of lap except 2nd to last corner where I flick it up to 1 for extra control, again tool 1 second off my lap by doing this
I'm pretty sure irl, most people complaining about oversteer never apply throttle the same aggression they do in the game. Every time the back end kicks out, you either apply more throttle or floor it, of course the back end is going to kick. One thing is the throttle in GT is more sensitive than other games and throttle feeling in your real life cars vary. The physics are fine in the game and are much better than what AC has to offer since everyone wants to compare it to that.
Yes, the game has to somehow compensate for the lack of lateral and longitudinal g-forces someone would use to balance a car with in real life. I have a flimsy throttle pedal, which doesn't help, but the game also has a very strange grip loss model currently. They don't have to be mutually exclusive factors.
@@Ermz grip loss is very similar to AC. You will lose in in an MR car when the rear tires brake traction in a similar fashion. Next time you are out in your M2 at the track, as soon as your rear end slips, give even more throttle and see what happens. Applying more throttle is not how you power out of a loss of rear grip which I’ve seen as n a few occasions in this video when you lost it.
Great vid mate! It would be great to know if the other assists help make someone faster on GT7 for online races. I noticed an A+ rated driver with ASM and counter steering on and getting good results on the Interlagos track. Sadly GT7 is no ACC but it brings back memories from the original ! Would love to hear i you put take on those other assists and if they make someone quicker.
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As of Update 1.13, the outcome of this test might differ. With the extra rear traction given to cars in the physics update, I would suggest trying every new car with TC at '0' and only setting it to '1' if you absolutely can't tune that behavior out of it. Bon chance!
can you make a new video about TC on/off with the new patch?
@@ln1152you don’t need one, follow what the above comment said. The same applies. Drive and push the car and tune to get it driving the way you’re comfortable with with TC off and apply TC if necessary.
@@trinidad111 What about ABS though? Should it stay on? Does Pro scene use it?
My biggest issue with the handling model is the massive understeer followed by sudden and violent oversteer
so how it works in real life with a rear wheel drive car then?
@@Jayboy1983 I've Driven A lot of rear-wheel-drive cars over the years On and off the Track... In no way is GT7s Handling Model even remotely indicative of reality.
@@Jayboy1983 I exclusively drive RWD irl and GT7 is no where close.
@@Chrisrd75 me too, I go on track fairly regularly with a variation of fairly high powered rear drive cars, no game is reality, but the understeer oversteer is a thing. you may not be driving as fast as you think you are in real life
@@Jayboy1983 ehhh Iv taken a 800hp 2006 Corvette zo6 to over 300km/ hour, though I'll admit that that was a monster. But my point still stands, no car Iv ever driven kicks 90 degrees at 100km/hour around a gentle curve at 10-20% throttle.... Something of a regular accurence in GT7. I'm getting use to it but I really don't know how anyone can argue the rear grip models are off, in some cases dramatically.
Yes there are a thousand variables. But so many of the rear wheel drive cars in GT7 behave like this that I'm confident saying it's a general "problem" and not an isolated one.
The level of oversteer is insane in this game. I’m sort of getting used to it, but it’s definitely giving me a lot of trouble.
I about fell out of my chair when he said that turning the countersteering assist off made the cars way more driveable.. maybe just that my g29 doesn't give enough feedback but I thought the game physics were shit until I put countersteering back. I think it's on "weak" now. I felt like an F1 driver "this is LITERALLY undriveable!" except that it actually was undriveable lol
@@EhEhEhEINSTEIN
I haven’t tried the counter steering assist. I turned them all off right away. It’s not because of going faster or slower with/without assists. It just forces me to learn better throttle/brake modulation as I am weak in that department.
Yea. A massive 180 from the typical understeery GT game physics of old.
@@EhEhEhEINSTEIN I find that trail-braking causes way more oversteer in GT7 than the older GTs, too.
as a person who’s always played drift modes in any game, it’s pretty easy for me to deal with oversteer in this game. I drive with Tc at 0-1 depending on the car. High power V8 you’re asking for it if you go 0. But most times i can hit a turn literally sliding but keeping speed so my times are better
I agree with your sentiments on the physics model and how it reacts to throttle on corner exit. I own a 2017 Shelby GT350, and if my car handled anything like the one in GT7 does, I would not be alive to write this comment.
Ditto with my BMW M2C
Agreed. I have a 99 Mk4 Supra and tc1 in gt7 reacts more like TC off in my car. TC0 in GT7 makes the Supra very snappy, borderline unrealistic. I think many road vehicles don't really have traction control fully turned off when you do it?
Tc0 in gt7 feels like a hardwired traction control off in a car, perhaps.
I agree. And I think that the tire traction model is off, too.
I have to slap race tires on my wrx sti, to somewhat recreate the traction level of my real sti on semis.
Same for me, I own a 500bhp R32 GTR with 2WD/4WD switch, I try to recreate my car in GT7 like I do in GT Sport and I'ts very difficult to have the same driving filling in GT7. I have to put the TC to 1 to get something near my GTR. But in GT Sport, it's almost the same driving reaction with no aids.
@@hidirj lol wut? Most performance cars with a Tcs off button turn it completely off. There’s exceptions but hardly in the sports car world.
My rule for abs is if the car has it in real life then its staying on regardless. Its hard enough balancing the throttle with tc off nevermind trying to balance the brakes too.
Pretty much how I do it outside of GT7 and Forza
I just put it in the lowest setting, unless you have a hydraulic brake pedal it's impossible to control the brake pressure as there is no feedback.
Wish there was a factory option like you'd get in project cars 2
some games have the assist level 'factory', where it applies whatever the car has irl, id really love that cause i dont realy fancy changing the setting on ABS
Just do some sit ups!!
The cars in this game are really weird. There is no slip angle and instead, you're forced constantly under the limit. Instead of a grip curve, it's like a grip _cliff._
very much this. slip angle barely exists and it's only really a thing in awd platforms, can't really reliably use it on rwd compared to something like AC even.
So, it's just like iracing?
@@tiagobelo4965 i(ce)Racing
I couldnt deal with it anymore and stopped playing for now. Hopefully they fix it. probably not.
@@tiagobelo4965 Most cars are not like that in iracing anymore not to mention it was never as bad as GT7.
TC at one was too much in gt sport. Minus using it at the start. It's great in gt7. I just wish they'd put the cones back.
whats funny, if you go to the driving aids and read the bottom scrolling description, they actually describe the brake cones and say its an option even though its not
Oh god how I miss those cones
The cones looked real to me which is why I turned it on for my braking points. Now I gotta use the braking area which doesn’t cut it for me.
@@ArcadeX2 turn that off
#bringconesback
Remember in this game MR and RR are really sensitive on the rear end, the TCS off will make you faster only if you are able to control it, but in a race you have multiple stuff to pay attention to, controlling your throttle input to that extent will be a distraction, so yeah in some cars you can remove it easy in others don't do it unless you're a masochist and want to master no TCS driving in hard cars
If you are serious about the competitive side of this game then you probably need to focus on certain cars and get to know them in and out to drive them without any assists it definitely improves laptimes.
Also the race car tuned gr4, gr3 and gr1 cars are a lot easier to manage traction than road cars. TC basically never kicks in on some of the gr3 cars or lmp1 cars.
Some cars are literally made to race with TC?!?!?
@@Delimon007 No car is made to race with TC. In real life you would have very tiny amount of TC in GT style races to avoid spinning out if you are too much on the Kerbs or hit a spot with a lit of rubber.
You would then turn up he TC when it gets wet.
Driving most non-sports car and supercars without TC is a death sentence, if you can turn it off then it is for drag racing only. Only Sports Car's (the road versions of the race cars) can actually handle without TC. But only because the power to weight ratio and tires means that you need to be very careful as the cars will be super understeery in general.
@@YekouriGaming
"No car is made to race with TC"
Literally all the GT class cars are made to race with traction control and do so irl. Most race cars are currently using TC other than F1 cars 😂
The cars are literally built with TC in mind, including sports cars IRL which use TC to control the car. Do you not understand how sophisticated these computers systems are or are you just a casual gamer who doesn't understand how these systems actually work and function?
@@YekouriGaming
FYI these are literal racing series where they use factory traction control:
WEC, IMSA, Blacnpain, 24hr series
All of these allow traction control and the cars are built from the factory to use TC. You have no idea what you are talking about 😂
I can agree with your trackday maniac friends as well Ermin. I’ve driven a range of Ferrari challenge cars. Not quite GT3, maybe closer to GR4 in GT7. Either way, in the challenge cars we always drive with the TC set to off because it’s way too intrusive when making corner exits. It cuts power as you blend back into the throttle just from the normal speed differential you have between left and right wheels due to the inner tire traveling less distance. With traction control off there is no sliding and no wheel spin unless you push the car too hard and make it spin. So I figured this would be true if I made a replica F430 Challenge in GT7, complete with the actual alignment angles from an F430 challenge I setup recently…. No luck in that department, the rear end goes for an overtake every time you touch the throttle coming out of corners lol TC set to 1 and it drives like a dream! So definitely some balancing needed to the upper limit side of the grip model to make it a more gradual loss of grip instead of the insta-snap we get now.
I always enjoy your content and it’s interesting to see a video on this topic. Keep up the awesome work, you’re a true legend! Sending much love from the US!!
I think I agree for every singer car set tc to 1 and keep abs at default. Is the best real life settings you can get. I drive mostly the race cars and gt cars or and super cars. Or I like those the most.
@@michaelschneider1365 For sure, keeps you from pirouetting at each apex but let’s you slide it around just enough to be comfortable with a little slip angle through the corners
@@philmoregain Personally I would keep it off. The more assists you have on the worse your speed is gonna be.
There is a massive difference between default and weak ABS, almost as much as if ABS was turned off. ABS default, allows you to turn easily, during braking, hence it is an assist. ABS weak, is close to how ABS is actually simulated, and ABS off is, how the brakes work without ABS. You can still understeer with ABS set to weak, but ABS default is akin to having 'magic brakes'.
Dude, this elitest knob has put no time in to work this stuff out. He is doing this for views.... It's gt7. You can clearly see how he comes across as talking shit about this "arcade game"
I drive mostly the race cars and hyper cars and super cars and gt cars. So I think tc 1 and abs to default is the most real life setting is this true?
@@michaelschneider1365 most race cars don't use abs or tc but super cars yea
When he said there was basically no difference between Weak and Default ABS in GT7 it set my expectations low.
There’s a huge difference between them. Default auto trail-brakes for you and eases out of pressure based on how hard you’re trying to turn in. It’s a massive assist. Low only frees up an under-rotating wheel and is agnostic of steering angle or cornering effort.
With Default you can treat brakes pretty much like a binary input and still get easy corner entry. With Low you need to modulate it.
It’s no wonder he struggled so much with ABS off if he’s used to ABS Default in GT7.
@@michaelschneider1365nothing about ABS Default is realistic. The behaviour of ABS Low logically behaves closer to real ABS. ABS Default is more akin to brake vectoring and is aware of steering wheel angle and cornering intentions. You don’t require any finesse on the brakes outside of the initial application timing and perhaps how and when you let off. No modulation between pressure and steering input is required at all as it is with ABS Low/Off.
Great video. I feel the same about TC being on 0 and 1. 1 is way more consistent but 0 gives opportunity to a bit faster laps. Although for races, I find it too risky on most cars. For 4WD cars, I mostly put TC on 0 though.
After seeing this, I'll lower my TC to 1 and keep the ABS on. Thank you for this! 👍🏽
Kinda unrelated, but...
Ever since GT Sport, you could do a "trick" to get a near perfect start in every grid start race, that trick being using the MFD to put the TC at any value before the start, and then turning it off once you get into 2nd/3rd gear, you could also do this trick in 5 and 6, but it's nowhere near as fast to do. Some might call this cheating, but the game never really has any idea of it
Best use i could find is for those Sport mode races with everyone having 1 specified car, usually filled with noobs and rammers, can get you a bit out of the pack (especially at Tsukuba, where currently there is a Clio Trophy race)
You can do that in gt7 if the car is equipped with adjustable TC. Brake bias helps too, but that's also dependent on the car, and if it has brake balance control
This has been a known thing forever now by competitive racers. However there are ways to get a faster launch but it’ll require a lot, and I mean a lot of practice.
Not really a trick, it's just using what the game provides - on-the-fly adjustable TC.
Just leave ABS on its stock setting. That's where it belongs lol.
It’s SOOOOO much fun to have everything off. Weak ABS Has nothing of weak.
@@BastianUllr you can definitely feel it on weak if you are used to brake while turning
@@lonedri2890 When weak I just cannot get the tires to ever lock, and ok, it's the best ABS system ever. But to say that you can panic break pretty much at any point with no consequence gets boring. Just by having the ABS on allows you to win to the IA with zero hassle. In weak at least you should not be allowed to be stupid with the input.
Plus, in the license tests, honestly I might be used to ABS off now, but I am faster on the driving tests with everything off. You can break extremely well and trail break with ABS off, that's no problem, as you can also be smooth coming off turns with TCS off.
There are three very gratifying things to me about ABS off. 1. You can definitely feel the weight distribution of the car, and you must respect it, and you can use it!. 2. Most cars have a complete different breaking sensitivity to the input, it's amazing to get to know better the car you're driving. 3. The experience of the career mode is actually interesting. But, of course there is some folks that just want to arcade their way through. I just get bored that way. Much prefer having to be precise or be out.
I use Pad also. Half millimeter makes a difference.
@@lonedri2890 I don’t think it’s realistic or something, but it’s challenging, fun and gratifying
@@BastianUllr It’s fairly realistic with it off, just play around with the brake balance and ballast settings. You can get some seriously OP cars if you can perfect your setups. Also it seems like your damper settings affect braking performance ever so slightly as well. It takes quite some time if you’re not really familiar with how it works, but it’s 100% worth the time investment.
As a controller jockey since 1997, I am finding GT7 very challenging to operate successfully without TC, especially certain licence tests.
Not as long timespan of experience, just from 2004-05 onwards, but I completely agree
Same, I've been having to play with settings way too much to be able to get gold in some of the tests.
I run all assists off except in license tests.
If you watch the license test how to videos in the game, theyre running all assists to set those times in the game.
On controller I use tc 1 abs on countersteering weak everything else off. When go to wheel same settings but countersteer off and play with tc 0 or 1
I found the only way I can get gold on controller is with no aids. It's about a second difference. Sometimes a little more
I’m finding exactly the same results ... basically undrivable.... I’ve has to really go to town on the suspension settings and diff just to keep the car from spinning without the assists ... never ever used previously but in the version I’m forced to if I just want take out a random car casually and don’t want to give up time tuning
Hi yall, when i got gt7 i would've never dreamed of turning off every assists except abs, is surprisingly simple once you get used to it, just now im attempting formula 1 races without assists and it is pure adrenaline, could never go back its too fun this way
This is the kind of stuff I do in my racing games. I’ll go online with friends and occasionally ranked or serious races. But I have the most fun busting out hot laps trying different things and with crazy cars. Just so nice for an average person to go out and drive cars which you normally wouldn’t even come close to owning in person. Great content and you make sim racing fun. Something that seems to be lost among a lot of players. To many people thinking they’ll be the next Lewis Hamilton of Iracing leagues and such. More people need to just remember these are “games” that are supposed to be “fun”.
From my experience use TC when launching, TC1 is enough and turn it off a second after you launched. This prevents wheelspin but doesn't take away your power for too long. ABS imo can always stay on :)
I wish tcs had a 0.5 setting, 1 is already too intrusive imo
I noticed that... 0 is almost impossible on a controller, and 1 is slowing you down too much
Also a big difference is that the maxda had "Comfort Soft" tyres and the KTM has "Racing Hard" tyres equipped! I would suggest trying the same again with the same tyres on both cars 👌
I played GT Sport with only abs on default for years and years , was a B rated driver and could do some drifting too. - Both on controller and G29
Once I got GT7 i could barely string a few corners together with no assists for over a week, however I stuck with it, and am now able to reliably complete menu books on all gold (just finished the rally one) and I have gotten gold on every licence (still busy with the final S rain lap with 917K)
what I am saying is, it just takes time and getting used to . Smoother inputs, and a more relaxed drive.
I will attempt Sport mode when I'm done with most of career.
This ^. Can't expect to master it in a few laps, takes time to build the muscle memory, whether or not it improves lap time is irrelevant to me, enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of getting quick with no TC
Great but their physics model is far from realistic so that’s disappointing
I hoped they would fix this overly happy tail behaviour from GT Sport. It always seemed like the tires are more like wooden blocks instead of rubber, at least when it comes to longitudinal grip.
I was never upset that in early gt you couldn't turn off abs. I wouldn't have touched it anyway, but for all my high hp cars 500hp+ I usually put tc on 1
It's pretty damning for GT7 how a good driver, using the GT-endorsed Fanatec wheel, has such a hard time with all assists off!
Had the same thing with the T300 GT edition. Its just marketing, they don't adapt the wheel for GT at all. Its just a sticker. GT is always a bitch that you cant alter any settings or calibrations. The GT-T300 has a rubber brake mod, which works awesome in most games if you calibrate the pedales with that mod in the place you like it. But for GT you have to pretty much remove it or you don't get to full braking because the mod stops you earlier. No way to calibrate that on a GT-Edition wheel.
Its scum sucking marketing.
@@JL-cn1qi My T300 GT pedal works perfectly fine with the rubber stopper installed. You'd notice the brake not reaching 100% for the first few brakes but after that the pedal would self calibrate and I'd get 100% braking always. It's actually a hardware feature of this pedal IIRC that it self calibrates no matter the travel.
I agree the ABS off just feels fake/unrealistic I don't know how I can instantly lock up at 140mph. And when you loose the rear it feels like the tyres are plastic... Been playing since its release but last night I moved my rig back over to the PC, ACC is miles ahead
I wondered this with GT3 and GT4 cars. I had abs off from the start and i was strugling like hell in the races. I was basically last in every race.
Today i put abs to weak and immediatly i was in pos 5-10 battles and no problem to keep up. Feels like night and day difference. ABS off locks brakes so easily even when i push pedal very slightly... That maybe would be fun if everyone else would have same settings. I have fanatec DD pro with pedals so they should be spot on to this game.
Feels like abs weak and all other assist off is the way for me.
I’ve found that just putting on racing tires and increasing downforce helps a lot with the oversteering. Also tweaking with the lsd helps too.
So now tuner cars need to be made to behave like an actual stock model. Lol
I also heard using a ballast helps as well.
I don't see how taking psychedelic drugs is going to improve my lap times.
They want you to play with the suspension tuning to find the sweet spot.
I've played with the Porsche GT3 suspension settings and it's nearly how a GT3 should handle, the rear now doesn't want to overtake the front on every bend.
I only have TC on with cars that are a nightmare to handle with limited down force. A non GT3 Corvette rear is a nightmare as the license test at Willow Springs highlights, it's impossible to do it without TC I found after many many many tries before I realised the demonstration even has TC on!
Very True, that’s how I am able to drive my F40 right now. Glad I was able to fine tune it
But in the sport races you can’t adjust the suspension or downforce
I got gold on the Corvette license test no TC on a g29 and shifter
What I noticed while using the X Bow without ABS or traction control (one of my favorite vehicles of all time) is that you can't steer while braking, so you have to completely finish braking before you turn, also don't go hard on throttle during turns cause without traction your car will start Tokyo drifting without your consent. (This is a year later, so they may have fixed the car, but thats just what I noticed).
You have to understand how ABS works to understand why your brakes are locking up even with light application. An ABS pump modulates the breaks, basically like pumping the brakes in rapid succession. In the old days before ABS driving instructors said to pump the brakes if the car starts to skid. On GT7 when I run without ABS that's exactly what I do, I pump the breaks going into a corner and it works flawlessly. Of course, I don't play the game for a leg workout so I use ABS.
I’ve personally started playing without any assists on and I started out really struggling but the more that I’ve gotten use it the more I’ve gotten consistent with it. It is worth noting I modded my Logitech pedals with a load cell mod though
that a really great practical representation of what I found when I was testing. I don't know whether ABS in GT7 is fantastic or whether the tire/lock-up model is so bad...
Always ABS Default.
TC0 is fastest, but has danger, the safety net of TC1 isn't too prohibitive, certainly a lot less than it was in GT Sport
The lockup seems similar to like every car being a F1 car. Like even a road sports car will lock up just as fast as a F1 car that has super high load on the wheel.
It is pretty cool that you can change TC on the fly through the mfd, you certainly need TC1 when driving on wet tracks with slicks. Or when driving with a huge Horsepower car like the Shelby GT350
Neat video, and thanks for sharing…. I’ve found however that sinking a few credits into any car will greatly improve the driving quality. Racing tires (I prefer the medium most times) are first to have an impact on lap times. After that, racing suspension. I’ve found varying the natural frequency front to back (softer in the front, harder in the back) will improve the cornering ability. Also play around with the downforce settings. I also always use the racing transmissions to set a top speed that lets the use all the gears and produce a spirited ride.
I use a controller with the right stick for acelleration and braking.
With TC on 1, countersteer off and abs default best I got was 1:12.2 with an average of about 1:12.8
With the TC off I got a 1:11.8 with the average around 1:12.4.
Definitely a lot more work and with the controller, throttle controle is tricky at best of times.
Test: will hybrids loaf along on electric power, and if so, for how long?
Adjusting force feedback helps be a little smoother which for me increases lap times slot, I also change pedal calibration and dead zone with the lighter faster cars to help breaking
just a fact from a gt drifter. you will need brake alot under drift and putting it to weak or off helps keeping the drift aswell as exstending corners ;)
This is the only gt I haven’t played but it’s interesting watching people like yourself have a crack. Also interesting topic of video, this somewhat translates to real life also, as a driver coach one of the first things most clients would ask me is too turn the assists off, id always recommend keeping all the systems on as they are that good these days they actually benefit you by having them on and they help you drive fast with making repeatability and consistency easier, which also adds more safety naturally.
“I bet you were waiting for this as much as I am.” With a statement like that, I was waiting for you to cue the Benny Hill background music 😂. Excellent video. Thank you.
I been playing this game with the ABS off cause you use Threshold Braking plus using brake controller to make the car lock more on the rear to get a better cornering technique
Me as a AC player always recommends putting traction control off or in a slippery setting (some cars have up to 15 levels) and ABS in factory most realistic option possible. Driving like this gives me on Spa or other tracks incredible curve speed and GT2 cars without abs don‘t loose much stopping distance as the force on the wheels is soo high that they can’t block at higher speeds (sometimes breaking balance has to be adjusted as the front tyres are often blocking earlier and damaging the brakes or blocking the steering). Also the cars do loose grip very easily when using no TC but that’s using a x-bow nothing unusual as the car is light = less grip and has high HP with a good amount of Nm. As soon as the Nm > wheel grip the motor begins to rev high and makes the rear falling out of line it is very realistic and gives the driver the option to slide the car throughout corner and lean the back a little sideways to get better acceleration at the end of the curve.
Btw I am using on PC a T150 (weak wheel) and the T-LCM so on breaking I might have a small advantage but my steering is way less sensitive and therefore I get the feeling of the tyres slipping way later then your direct drive wheel is able to provide to you
I usually keep everything off except ABS. I like the Need for Speed 4 music in the end. Brings back memories. :D
I appreciate the time you put into this test. I've experienced similar with F/R cars, and M/R cars especially, so much so that I avoid driving them unless I have to. I got particularly frustrated with the Porsche Cafe Menu trials. Managed to get through it, but it made me stop playing for a few days, lol. I hope Polyphony can fix this, otherwise it's gonna end up being one more reason people will avoid GT7.
I’ve been stuck on the Porsche café menu because I refuse to put TC on
I like TC on 1, for Porsche had it on 5
i’ll mirror that the porche on spa was just awful no matter how i tuned it
In GT6 i only used ABS on u or 8 to brake very late,no TCS no skid control and I maximazed lap times way over than many ppl,it's all about making good setup for suspension for good exiting speed from corners and weight balance to optimize braking.
The setting being missed here that needs adjusting is the Fully Customizable Limited Slip Differential in the car settings. (Which you have to buy to add to the car in GT Auto) as well as Fully Customizable Suspension and the wheel camber settings.
I turned off all the assists but ABS off while playing with controller on GT Sport....and I would swear that in missions even with counter steering turned off....the game would countersteer...it never bumped my mind to check the replay as I wanted to finish the missions in two days as quick as possible before GT7 :D
Completely agree about the handling model, even the stable Nissan GTR likes spinning out exiting corners. That’s the same car that gave Jeremy Clarkson whiplash exiting a corner…
First video I've seen from you, impressed with the quality
Completely agree with the state of RWD cars, there's a fundamental flaw in the programming that needs to be fixed.
With the ABS, the way it's programmed, luckily emulates ABS systems in modern cars. If you've ever driven late 80's/mid-90's cars with ABS, those systems were usually absolute garbage, more likely to cause a crash than prevent one.
In real life, when you drive a car without ABS, you can feel just before the wheels lock up and let up on the brake pedal, with a game you don't get that feeling, you're relying on audio and visual cues to try to let you know when you need to let off a bit.
Sometimes I use less grip tires in the front on RWD cars it helps keep the car on check but you lose cornering ability but less prone to oversteer
I think you should try the H pattern shifter and heel toe with ABS & TC off. It would be on another level.
That is how I do it ...only way to learn..you have to pump the brakes like abs
You should keep an eye on the gear you're at. Instead of oversteering full power coming out of a corner on second gear kicking in highrev, stick it into third gear, that should help.
Once you are out of the corner and the steering wheel is straight you can floor it in a lower power car or a car with really good grip.
Leave ABS as default but use the TC the way ppl do in ACC for example where it’s on 1 until corner exit then you switch to TC 0 for the traction then flick it back to 1 before the next corner
I pretty much use 1 level of TCS for any of the following...
+1 RWD
+1 High HP (usually around 700 HP)
+1 torrential rain
So for instance, driving a 750 hp c63 in a storm on Nurnbergring, I'm using TCS 3. At the same time, a 450 HP AWD Mitsubishi GTO on dry Tokyo and I have assists off.
In most racing games I have all assists off, but the driving model in GT7 just gets crazy when power gets dialed up on a rwd car.
(I'm using a CSL Elite wheel)
Agree with you, Cars don't behave that way in RL, maybe if you have some really bad tires, but thats not the case in GT7.
Hope they'll fix some physics.
Great video mate I really enjoyed and watched the whole thing!
Thank you for doing this... I wanted to do it myself but could not get to it... I will definitely use your conclusions on my setups... Cheers !
Nice and comphrehensive video. Also, nice BGM which I'm sure I've heard before and it was not on this planet.
Yea, they don’t feel like the rear bunkers down, digs in, increases traction and launches.
There’s that limit with too much torque, but within ranges, it digs in when exiting corners.
I tested this a bit myself and took the standard KTM around the circuit. I am using the controller, not the wheel, and I have to say the KTM is a bit tricky. But I always turn off TCS in the dry, and if the car is setup right, it is not a problem. The car is a bit more loose, but that makes it easier to correct when it slides. If a car with TCS slides, you can't correct it with power.
With the controller though, for me the abs off does not work, I have it on weak. Btw, don't sell yourself short, I can't do your times with the standard KTM, don't know your setup, and maybe the wheel does help a bit. About other assists, I noticed that sometimes the AI takes a very different line then the yellow dotted line, and gained lots of speed with that. And it worked for me, too. Also, the brake zone, depending on the corner, it is often better to brake sooner, sometimes later, and the suggest gear is often to low. With some balls you can keep speed and stick to 3, and it suggest to go to 2, needing to brake more, and hitting the rev limiter instantly when exiting the corner. Also, powerful cars don't need to go back to 1, all you get is wheel spin and instant rev limiter.
I agree the lack of grip on corner exit is unrealistic. I'm driving
Seems to be a per case basic with TC and cars. Some 0 is best. Most 1. But, some I loose and spin on exit at 2 sometimes 3. Seems very varied by car and whether your a lead foot or not.
Hard with logitec G923 pedals to modulate
Interesting to see your take and confirm some of my thoughts. Thanks Ermin
Love the content as always 🔥🙏🏾
Kazunori Yamauchi winner in his class in the 24H of Nurburgring created GT because of his love for cars and racing.
The man knows how real life (race) cars handle, and I'll take his word over any sim racer with no actual racing experience and friends that do trackdays with cars that almost drive themselves like the 4WD Hurracan, the handling of Lamborghini's have been going downhill ever since they introduced 4WD on the Diablo.
With the exception of the Gallardo Balboni wich was real wheel drive.
Is this why the 1.13 update radically changed the way RWD cars act on power? Was it perfect before or after? Was Kaz involved before or after? They seem mutually exclusive, so answer carefully.
@@Ermz Not one game or in this case sim is perfect, but you can always make it better when you find out where something doesn't work right.
Or are you telling me all cars in Assetto Corsa were perfectly balanced and never needed a fix?
After learning the curve's. I've put down my fastest times with it off...scored gold on licenses where i couldn't before with it off...albeit some 1000hp cars are absolutely ridiculous at o. My model so far is above 750hp. Trac 1 under 750 run zero and practice throttle control..and maintain control under breaking. Also I use a controller...
Thanks for this video, I’m new on sim racing and got a g29 but I thought I was going crazy with TC off and FR high HP cars
I feel that they intentionally have the heavy MR/FR oversteer bias to make the LSD upgrades feel worth it at this point......because once you buy and use the fully tunable LSD the ability to control the 400-700PP RWD road cars become much more controllable.
This! MR and FR cars NEED their LSD settings modified in order to drive them! I actually really enjoy MR and FR cars much more now that I’ve learned to tune them. The problem though lies in online BoP races where you cannot adjust any of the cars settings which IMO is extremely stupid
@@Frankenslide A surprisingly large amount of people dont want tuning for whatever reason, some bs about driver skill
@@wolfgang_h3t people are simply not willing to put in the work to improve their knowledge of how cars and mechanics work which is sad
You took the words out of my mouth!! I feel like GT needs to change their acceleration sensitivity or you have to put a damper kicked onto the accelerator
pedal, it sucks
I never use traction control or abs and the trick is at high speeds 100% break anything below around 90-100mph is 75% break then through a corner it’s 15% break in the game it’s super easy to lock up during trail breaking it’s tricky but once you get the hang of it it’s almost hard to go back to abs
In my experience most gt3 cars are fine with TC off. I keep tc off unless driving in the wet (I use LSD for TC). I agree with you on the realism.. Non of my cars react the way they do in GT 7.
Settings I have off :
Transmission manual
Traction control off
Active Stability Management off
Counter steering assistant off
(u can’t turn off this 2 while driving)
Stability or Traction control? Same same or different?
One subdues wheels spin? Over steer on exit.
One aids in lost of control? Corner entry and mid?
That is the point, this game can't simulate the tires properly and you can't drive without assists, especially ABS. Can you imagine being obliged to drive a 60/70's car with ABS?
ABS: Stock
TC and everything else: Off or unassisted. They slow you down anyways especially the TC system not correct
Thumbs up for the Video and the Afterlife Music in the background :)
Should do it the other way around. Get as fast as you can get (within a reasonable amount of time) then see how much the settings slow you down. Or just break the sessions up over a few days, if you didn't already do that. So each session can be done fresh.
I think abs off is easier when you also apply the throttle slightly while braking. Won't lock up that quickly then.
Like it or hate it, Countersteer Assist exists in GT7 and should be included in any holistic assessment of assists. Having already set benchmarks for TC off here, I'd love to see those same settings (TC off, ABS default) tested with the various CA settings in the same cars, track and conditions. I think the results might be surprising, especially for the X-Bow.
Just a suggestion but maybe dont immediately go to 3/4 throttle when not using tc? If you watch your throttle inputs, a lot of the oversteer issues happen when you are not gentle on the throttle. When you are more gentle your exits are a lot smoother. To clarify what i mean by gentle: a progressive increase of throttle up to the traction threshold based of speed and turning angle. If you hammer the pedal to half throttle very quickly, you are more likely to lose traction and spin. If instead you press the pedal to half throttle more gradually, you compress the rear springs and load the rear tires, making the car a lil more stable giving the tires a much better chance of keeping traction. Just food for thought. Its not impossible to drive high horsepower rwd cars without traction control. It is, however, difficult to get used to having to be that careful with the throttle. After some practice it can become something you dont have to think about anymore. Whether or not this is faster depends in you and the car so its still worth trying tc 1 and tc 0 in every car. But i do recommend practicing with tc 0 so you arent not completely reliant on tc to save you from your lead foot.
The MR and RR games are basically undriveable in the current game, without tuning them. Including brake balance in that.
Omg you sound just like, ( just one good lap ) I say that almost with every lap, lol. I really enjoy all your vids. They help me out immensely. Cheers
Ermin: And I managed to understeer a bit.
The rear end: …and I took that personally.
I feel like they made GT7 more towards tuning and or aero. Tuning and aero can get rid of all the problems, obviously to an extent. Feel like the game rewards ultra smooth driving too as opposed to just chucking it in and slamming the throttle, which kinda sucks but also good in a way? Idk just my thoughts.
Hi,after some testing with the dd pro on gt7, could you please give us a feedback on the FFB? After some testing between gt7 and gt sport, there is clearly a big lack in detail in every aspect of the FFB. Gt sport feels perfect btw. What's your thought about this?
My opinion the Dd pro works good in Gt7, realistic for me, just as gt sport. But thats my opinion
Nice vid mate. Guess what? Time to do this again with update 1.49 and the change to physics modelling.
Cheers, dd
Great informative vid. Are you using a 5nm or 8nm on the DD?
As someone who left foot brakes and runs with everything off. This definitely helped me feel a lil better lol
What I found is that the cars that have driver assists irl drive much better when you turn it on and the cars that don’t drive better without them. Gr.1 cars are much more drivable without abs (which is banned irl) compared to gt sport
You did a single first lap with TC, and then 3 laps without TC. After getting a fraction second faster on a second lap you announce your "already faster with the TC off." However, you have to factor in your running startup for lap 2 with TC off otherwise the TC lap is at a disadvantage in comparison.
What settings do you use on your Fanatec CSL DD? Have you experimented with different sensitivity levels (steering wise), like 540 and 720 instead of AUTO? Because I feel I can the slides a lot better with 540!
I have not played gran turismo 7, but less steering wheel rotation angle makes it easier to prevent spins, cause you can countersteer faster, while making your driving less smooth and precise than ot higher rotation
With the diff and the suspension I have been able to tune the oversteer out of every single car I've come across with the tcs on 0 and abs off or some cars I put it on weak.. I'm on a controller as well also throttle control is a skill one must master to take any oversteer
Good to finally see someone talk about how poorly the cars handle getting back on power in GT7. I don't personally have the funds to get a PS5 or wheel and pedals, and trying to put super small inputs on the PS4 controller with no feedback makes everything feel completely undrivable compared to GT Sport.
GT7 is much more sensitive than GTSport. Also, a controller isn't the best way to judge the handling. I recommend you use assists.
@@HandlesSuck123 in normal races I don't mind the oversteer as much, but trying to gold all the licenses tests with either 0 grip or 0 power out of the corners is about to break my sanity 🤣
So I have noticed that tc can be manipulated throughout the lap.. don't get me wrong I'm not very good. But in current daily race 2. Took 1.5s off my lap by taking off tc completely - but that is in the 4wd mazda.. and in daily race 1 (the karts) I use tc 0 for all of lap except 2nd to last corner where I flick it up to 1 for extra control, again tool 1 second off my lap by doing this
Great video, looked like loadsa fun 🤣
I end up with only abs on because the pedals aren't calibrated so there's tons of travel after it maxes out.
I'm pretty sure irl, most people complaining about oversteer never apply throttle the same aggression they do in the game. Every time the back end kicks out, you either apply more throttle or floor it, of course the back end is going to kick. One thing is the throttle in GT is more sensitive than other games and throttle feeling in your real life cars vary. The physics are fine in the game and are much better than what AC has to offer since everyone wants to compare it to that.
Yes, the game has to somehow compensate for the lack of lateral and longitudinal g-forces someone would use to balance a car with in real life. I have a flimsy throttle pedal, which doesn't help, but the game also has a very strange grip loss model currently. They don't have to be mutually exclusive factors.
Physics much better then AC LOL, actually delusional.
@@Ermz grip loss is very similar to AC. You will lose in in an MR car when the rear tires brake traction in a similar fashion. Next time you are out in your M2 at the track, as soon as your rear end slips, give even more throttle and see what happens. Applying more throttle is not how you power out of a loss of rear grip which I’ve seen as n a few occasions in this video when you lost it.
Great vid mate! It would be great to know if the other assists help make someone faster on GT7 for online races. I noticed an A+ rated driver with ASM and counter steering on and getting good results on the Interlagos track. Sadly GT7 is no ACC but it brings back memories from the original ! Would love to hear i you put take on those other assists and if they make someone quicker.
I love TC & ABS at 0, even with a rear wheel drive in the rain. When you get the hang of it, it is very rewarding.
Yes, I do hate myself.