Damn, each time I hear the phrase "I guess he's pretty good at this basketball thing" or "I guess he/she is good at this [whatever the subject] thing" I just instantly hear his monotone yet entertaining voice.
@@itzwakk335 he did already do lebron, right? i cant remember.. tim duncan, magic johnson, kareem, bill russell, wilt chamberlain, mj..was larry bird in one? so maybe he didnt do lebron
That's kinda like saying the best case for the world being flat is that you have to prove the world is round. Someone one day will be undeniably better than Jordan if they haven't come already(perhaps Luka Doncic)
@@guitarsmasher13 Luka has the potential, but he really needs to improve his defense before you can make the comparison. He's so young that he has a lot of years to improve though, and I'd love to see him develop into one of the deadliest 2-way players in the league.
I think that's more of an argument that he WAS the GOAT. That could be changing--we have to see how LeBron's career ends. GOAT is more than just who was the best at what they did (Tim Duncan) or who had the highest peak (Jordan). It's who had the greatest career and left the best legacy (Jordan and/or perhaps LeBron).
For me, the best argument for Jordan as the GOAT is his return from his retirement. To be on the top of the world, win 3 consecutive rings, retire for 2 years and then return for another threepeat. This wouldn't have been believeable if it was a movie.
@E BO bro your hate is real. it is blinding you. you are missing what he is pointing out. yes, he shouldn't have retired but he did. and to come back mid season (lost) but won the next year. sorry, but you plain hating. now, you said but he still score 55 points again the knicks and so on, that just shows how good he was.
@E BO I agree that everyone must acknowledge the truth, but I guess my thing is, I don't really care that he lost that one year. Not when you redeem yourself in the grandest way possible. That one lost doesn't make 6-0 or 6 rings in 8 years any less impactful. It's still an outstanding feat that will very seldom repeat. No one can win every year, and coaches, front office management, players etc make adjustments each season addressing weaknesses, in the attempt to win. Acquiring Rodman is a part of the game, it's fair because any team could have got him, and his defense and rebounding definitely contributed to the victories. It's a team sport, a collective effort but I adamantly believe w/o MJ the Bulls certainly were not getting over the hump to win it all...3 times. Esp in 98 with an injured Pippen.
MJ literally was like "you know what I'm a just retire and play baseball" then he came back won 3 more and retired again. he then came BACK in his Wizards days dropped 30+ points and retired again.
Low key, MJ was still really good in his Wizard days. He was on a tear until injuries took their toll. He really helped the franchise find success compared to before he was there!
I agree. In some respect people may find it hard to accept a non "air Jordan" as still playing great basketball which is why they dismiss his wizard years. But he still could dominate and get buckets without needing to blow by and jump over people. If not for the injury the wizards would have been a tough team to face in the playoffs that year. I'm not saying they would have won it all or even gotten to the finals but you never know how things go, maybe they could have gotten to the ECF....
Still averaged over 20ppg 5ast and 6reb and was a threat to drop 40 on any given night, at 38 and 39 years old after sitting out 3 seasons prior to returning.
@@PSUDarius2032 yup. Now. I'm not going to go too overboard with his Wizard years but I think at the very least the author of this vid should have noted at least this much about Jordan on the Wizards rather than ignoring it with a suggestion that he did poorly.
The "best there ever will be" part is pretty arrogant though. In 1966 NOBODY would stop and think: "oh yeah, Wilt and Russ are the GREATEST EVER, at least until 1984 when the Bulls draft Michael Jordan." Nah.
Je literally says at the start that he doesn't think one person is truly the goat, but he tries to make the case for every single person in his videos... And it works
Yeah I was thinking. These seem roughly in order. Does this mean he might think LeBron is the GOAT? I also kinda think some of the discussion on Jordan's supporting cast is preparing the case for LeBron.
@@benbauer7866 I'm thinking/hoping we get a controversial opinion for his final entry in the series... Everyone so far is pretty much consensus and I understand the argument for them being the GOAT which is why I thought Jordan would be the final one (unrelated but don't act like LeBron don't need a supporting cast either)
@@benbauer7866 Its damn near impossible to make the case for Lebron over MJ based on the criteria he's been using, MJ has won twice as many rings. Twice as many finals MVPs, 9 more scoring titles, 1 more MVP. He's also 1st all time in BPM, PER, WS48, PPG and he's ahead of Lebron in total win shares per game and VORP per games and ahead of him in total win shares through 179 playoff games and VORP through 179 playoff games. Its pretty much an open and shut case. He literally holds an advantage ovrr Lebron in every advanced analytic and has way more accomplishments and accolades in less amount of time.
(cool intro music) Clayton Crowley is special. The tone of his voice and the intentionality of his vocabulary give TH-camrs the most intimate experience in basketball education that exists. And because of the different perspectives our backgrounds allow for, viewers develop their own distinct interpretations through validation, points of contention, and new information. And although no content creator succeeds alone, the solitary nature of Clayton's efforts give him a nearly unprecedented amount of control over the flow and topics of his videos. For this reason his assertions are constantly compared to our preconceptions and our memories of the past in order to answer the least hotly debated question on the internet: who's the greatest to ever review it. For many, this post is a wasted effort; they've long since stopped reading and moved on with life. Others might kinda get a chuckle but ultimately forget about it in the next few minutes, but I believe there's much more nuance to the substance of a great internet joke, and more ways to pull it off, than you might think. By my count there are 8 of you who have read this far and I hope you derive substantial gain from this post. It's not really a subjective thing, though. You kind of already know the answer. That's why today, I'm not going to bother making the case for Clayton Crowley as the greatest basketball guy on TH-cam. (cool outtro section of cool intro music)
You keep "not" mentioning his days with the Wizards however it only dropped his PPG average by .4%. He still was averaging more than most 23 year olds in the league at the time. Just something to keep in mind
@@inordirectional I think he ment 40% actually but even then that's kind of off. Jordan average 31.5 on the bulls. And 21.2 on the wizards meaning his scoring drop off 10.3 ppg. 10.3/31.5 is about .327 meaning his scoring dropped about 32.7%
@@sed1589 I think he was just off by a decimal place. He's talking about how much his career scoring average changed as a result of playing from the wizards: it went from 31.5 to 30.1, (31.5-30.1)/31.5 = -.04, ie it went down 4%.
He only played their for 2 years after 13 years with the bulls, that’s only 164 games to well over a thousand, his averages were never gonna drop off very much unless he only scored like 5 points a game for 2 years
I really like how Clayton handled the black and white nature with talking about Michael Jordan. It’s impressive how he brings up so many good points while still talking about the different accomplishments that we’ve all heard about a million times.
At 41, I was prime viewing audience for the NBA of the 1990's and all the Jordan mania... As a New Yorker and a Knicks fan, Michael Jordan broke our hearts more times than I can count, but you never begrudged him or his team their success.
You know he nearly ended up a Knick? Some say it was a bluff but he very nearly signed with them during negotiations after championship number 4… Ny would have won for sure, it would have been awesome.
Serious question: Why do people always talk about MJ's Wizards years as if the should be forgotten forever? I mean sure - it wasn't the unstoppable Jordan from the Bulls era, but the man was still scoring like 20 a game at age 40. Am I missing something? Is it just because the Wizards collectively didn't do amazingly?
It was the difference between what he'd been at that last shot to win vs. the Jazz and what he was with the Wizards - THE MAN vs. A (still very talented) mortal.
Because those wizards team went under 500 in wins. Even when he came back for the 2nd year healthy they still had the same record. There's a video about his time with the wizards that really speaks volumes. However just because his wizards day were far from glorious doesn't mean he still cant be the goat. It's ok to have faults. Every basketball player has them.
Yeah a 40 year dropping 40pts, multiple 30pt games. Taking an injured Wizards squad to the playoffs. Averaging 20ppg while being fat and smoking. That block on Ron Artest. He had Two Allstar apperance (not out of pity or respect, but bc he was an allstar through and through) avg 21/6reb/5ast with over a steal a game and .5 blocks a game in 2 seasons as someone who is middle aged shows his longevity
@@justsayin669 before he hurt his knee in 2002 he was putting up the same numbers as Kobe's MVP season while with the Wizards and had them well inside the playoff bubble. He then missed 22 games and then was playing basically on one leg the rest of the Wizards era.
@Requiem All true but his career numbers stayed over 30ppg 2.3 steals pg, and the only retired player (so far) to average 20ppg every season of his career. Oh and he because of his extra stint as a wizard he became one of 5 player (at the time of his retirement) to score at least 30k points
Just Sayin jordan had to 35 years old to take that team to the playoffs,he was 39 to 40 . The wizards were 19 - 63 L Before jordan, 37 - 45 L ,last season,but 25 - 57L,when he left, Just saying
scottie is a good player no doubt about it the only reason why they manage to win when jordan retired is because they have stable offensive system . he is a supplementary role/star player that can lead a team only in 1st-2nd round in a playoffs but not a superstar player . he is in the group of kevin machale/james worthy/tony parker/klay thompson and joe dumars . a 2nd or 3rd guy on the team .
@@dtechzsama Exactly, as great as Scottie was, he wasn't that guy to lead the team to win. People also forget what happened during his second solo year too; they were barely .500 and Jordan's return boosted the morale going 13-4 towards the end of the season.
@@JoeKen3 naahh tehy just want a false narrative about pippen to discredit jordans credential and make a case for their idol lebron , mosty of them actualy XD but if u really understand the game of basketball u know scottie is just a boarderline allstar-roleplayer . jordan mold him since the day they drafted him . if the bulls didnt draft him we will never heard of him i promise u that XD
@Mr. Layth Adrian gonna ask a question... how wasnt he in the list of the best players of the league if HIM joining the wizards (till his injury) turned them from a 19-61 record team to a 26-21 record team (till his torn meniscus) , during that 26-21 stretch (also Rip Hamilton who was the 2nd best player in the team missed 5 weeks of playing time due to him having groing injury problems, with both of them healthy their streak was 15-1) Wizards were on a 47 win pace ... turned them from the 2nd worse defense in the league to the 6th best allowing only 92.2 ppg, in his last 35 pre injury games the wizards allowed 90 ppg = 3rd in the nba. in the 15-1 stretch they allowed only 86.3 ppg which was by far the best defense in the league. By the end of the RS the best defense was Miamis which allowed 88.7 and finished 1st on that category.
Oldest player to score 40, and 50 but that’s about it. His teammates couldn’t stand him. His personality as a teammate doesn’t work when you can’t even reach the playoffs.
After retiring from the Chicago Bulls in early 1999, Michael Jordan became the Washington Wizards' president of basketball operations as well as a minority owner in January 2000. However, in September 2001, Michael Jordan came out of retirement at age 38 to play basketball for the Washington Wizards. Jordan stated that he was returning "for the love of the game." Because of NBA rules, he had to divest himself of any ownership of the team. Before the All-Star break, Jordan was only one of two players, along with Kobe Bryant, to average more than 25 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists as he led the Wizards to a 26-21 record, and the only player to average more than 25 points, 6 rebounds, and 5 assists. Tracy McGrady would become the only player to average at least 25-6-5 by the end of the 2001-02 season However, in the last game before the All-star break, Jordan suffered a knee injury in a collision with Etan Thomas on February 7 against the Sacramento Kings.[3][4] The Wizards would lose 9 of their next 10 games following Jordan's knee injury. It is also worth noting that Rip Hamilton missed 5 weeks of playing time due to a groin injury[5] in the Wizards' 26-21 stretch. Starting with a November 28 win over the Philadelphia 76ers, the Wizards were 15-1 in the last 16 games that Jordan and Hamilton played together prior to Jordan's injury on February 7.[6] After the all-star break, Jordan's knee could not handle the workload of a full-season as he ended the season on the injured list, and the Wizards concluded the season with a 37-45 record. Still, Jordan had led the Wizards to an 18-win improvement from the previous season.
I honestly wasn't even sure you were gonna do MJ. Could be a 10 second video "MJ is the goat because of the same reasons everyone on earth gives" Edit: Haha pretty much how he opens it
Bulls didn’t lose 4 playoff series to Detroit; they lost 3. Also, you mentioned Pippen being there for all of the Detroit losses. This is true, but he wasn’t anything close to resembling the Scottie Pippen we know until the 1990 loss. Pippen averaged 10 and 13 points in the 88 and 89 losses. I feel like you could have been a little more thorough than that. I love this series for the most part though, and MJ is far and away the goat.
Ppl act like Pippen was a all star when he came in the league. He was on the bench the whole year. Also never seen a guy get so much hate for losing his first few years in the league the way MJ does. A lot of guys don't even make the playoffs their first few years in the league
U can tell he doesn’t want ppl to think MJ is Goat. He tells you why by saying ppl want to say they saw the goat play. He was under 5 when Jordan won in 98. This dude is trash I’ve learned nothing about any player from watching these. MJ is in a class by himself period. I feel like this dude won Participation trophy’s growing up.
Tanner Boyle yeah u could tell he has a little bit of something towards MJ, cause of the way possible used to praise him. I watched all his other GOAT videos and this one felt a little different
@@tannerboyle6610 That doesn't matter that he was a kid. His grandparents probably didn't even get together when Russell and Chamberlain were playing, yet he still made videos for them
He played because he had an under the table deal to purchase the wizards after 2 seasons since the NBA ratings dropped when he retired. Do you remembers the 99 finals lol?
That brief second when he stood there and stared at his last shot. What an image. It's like he was processing his entire legacy in that one short moment.
Great video. But one only needs to show highlights from 1985 to 1999 and watch how he plays. People who understand basketball will see it... He does things 8-10 times a game that would be the greatest move of mortal players careers.
His Wizard years is the only thing people don't use to boost his case. He was 38-40 & still averaging 20+ . Had the Wizards on pace to be a top three team in the conference with Rip Hamilton as the next best player before both got hurt.
yeah but they were not winning the title vs the west and it is hard to imagine them beating the nets in 03 in particular with an experienced roster..and in 02 the wiz were not experienced so i don't trust them to make the finals
wizards were a .500 team with jordan. dont make up stuff. he was atrociously inefficient in his wizard years. he wasnt wahed by any means but he wasnt jordan anymore either. he doenst need the wizard years for his case as the goat and i guess most ppl view him as the best ever anyway. no need to artificially boost his legacy with that washington stent. he was not bad there but he also was far from his former self.
@@peterpan3022 This is wrong. After his injuries, sure. But before he was injured on the Wizards, he was still great. Obviously not peak Jordan, but _great._
Growing up, watching Michael Jordan was an amazing experience! I feel for the younger generation who weren't able to watch Jordan back then. He really was one of the biggest stars on Earth, and just backed it up on the court every night. He is the GOAT.
You should call this series: Making the Case for Second Place, because we all know Brian Scalabrine is the GOAT But in all seriousness I love this series
they were but he's not saying that like MJ played bad...he's saying that because at almost age 40 people would want him to take that lottery team to the Finals and win.
Your depiction of Michael Jordan is amongst the very best narrative I have ever heard. You truly have a gift, unbiased, profound, sentiments. If you're reading this, this video is a triumph. A sensational play written by a thought provoking author. Well done, Sir.
One reason why I think Michael is the GOAT is because he's what you think about when you think about the greatest. It's something that is just apparent. You don't need to look at the technical aspects. I love that you make the case for others and I agree that others have great cases. I love that you have Tim Duncan up there because I do consider him one of the greatest of all time, but Michael was an essential part of the 90s. He was an icon. He was a legend. He has that aspect that nobody else in your series can claim to. I think that is what gives him the edge over the others.
Love your work. I spent the whole month looking forward to the next instalment. What bring MJ over the line as GOAT, for me, is that people like Magic Johnson and Charles Barkley say he is the GOAT. Acclaim by your peers and competitors is the highest form of praise.
1st off, this series has become some of my favorite media available. Great stuff. Keep doing your thing. In 8th grade I was captain of my b-ball team - wearing 23 and with a brand new pair of Jordans on my feet. One of the things that gets completely lost in highlights is watching him lead that team through a season and into the playoffs. He was simply unreal.
Put it this way when Jordan retired the first time he was universally recognized as the Goat. He left at the peak of his career the impact he had on the culture and the game was unmatched. Then he comes out of retirement and wins 3 more in the fashion he did is legendary. I don’t believe anyone can reach that level again Jordan is the standard their all chasing him, yeah there are greats who passed him statistically but doesn’t mean they have reached that level of greatness. Jordan played the game to WIN at all costs that’s the point of competive sports and that’s the reason why he’s beloved by so many.
The difference, however, is when you make the team better yourself, when you grow together as a team. When Phil Jackson came to Chicago he was an assistant coach, he was nobody, Phil. Jackson worked his way up and worked with the players himself to get better. It's something completely different when you have a team and can simply bring in the stars or simply switch to the team where the best players are or where the best players are who are right for you. The development process of a team is much more important than switching or simply trading players to one
Personally, I think Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest pure athlete basketball (perhaps ANY sport) has ever seen, but Michael Jordan was the ULTIMATE competitor. Funny, when the GOAT discussion comes up it's always everybody else compared to M.J.. That alone should speak volumes to anybody who knows anything about basketball.
All it means is that there was a lot more media coverage in the 90s compared to the 60s and 70s. Just like how people value Kobe’s 81 instead of Wilts 100. Some people don’t even believe the 100 happened.lol
Wow this was so awesome! I'm 52 so I followed Jordan's entire career. I've never seen anything like him before, then and after. He was absolutely amazing. Poetry in motion. You showed me footage of him that I had never seen before. Thank you sir. Well done.
As one of Clayton’s earliest subscribers, I have been excitedly anticipating when he would finally get to MJ, and I have to say, I was a little disappointed with the product. We spent a good portion of the video hearing that Scottie Pippen was a great player and that Phil Jackson was a great coach. If you don’t already know those two things, then you don’t know much. He also made it sort of appear as if the “Jordan Legend” was somewhat contrived and that no one could really be that good (i.e. that there’s a clear difference between the legend and the actual player). I don’t think anyone above the age of 4 really thinks that Michael Jordan made every shot or won every game, but the reason that Jordan was, and is, so great is BECAUSE the legend matches up with the reality in so many respects (take a random story like when he dunked on Mel Turpin in Utah just to shut some guy up on the sidelines). I was not raised on TH-cam highlights. Between the 92-93 season and the 97-98 season I probably missed a total of 18 Bulls games. In my life, I saw Magic and Kareem play in person, I saw Shaq and Kobe play in person, and I’ve seen Durant play in person; there is literally no comparison with the actual on court presence of Jordan. He is so far beyond everyone else that I get why these younger guys just sort of refuse to believe it. Two comments about the video: 1.) the final shot against Utah was precipitated by Jordan stealing the ball from the other team’s best player (who happens to be the 2nd all time leading scorer), we should have seen that part leading up to the shot. Why? Because it encapsulates Jordan’s game: he was the best at whatever needed to be done in any game at any time. You need a steal or a defensive stop? He’ll get it. You need a go ahead bucket? He’ll get it. You need a three? He’ll get it. 2.) it was a mistake to omit his time with the Wizards. While drafting Kwame (and many other things) was a terrible move on MJ’s part, his game continued to speak even at his advanced age. He still holds scoring records for a player age 38-40. This is significant because even though the Wizards were a bust, it was just another example of part of what makes Jordan so great: he is only interested in competing, and competing to the point of exhaustion. He is a total A hole-just watch his infamous Hall of Fame speech; but when you watch that speech, watch Pat Riley’s reactions in the crowd. Riley almost worships Jordan (including retiring 23 in Miami just out of sheer respect) because he recognizes Jordan for what he is: the ultimate competitor in the history of team sports. Like the statue says: “The best there ever was, the best there ever will be.”
I was dissapointed too. This was supposed to be epic. It only took a few minutes in before I realized he was already trying to strengthen his Lebron case by belittling MJ's achievments. MJ holds sooooo many records, sooooo many achievments. His case is so strong. This video was a tragedy,
No! He wanted to separated Jordan the player from Jordan brand of stories and folktales This is precise 6 for 6 with 6 fmvp, scoring at will and dpoy with 5 mvp and no one could beat him at that time That is his story as player. Definitely leading goat convo but the story you guys are looking for of a GOD Jordan is just a story to tell the world so NBA becomes global Everyone banked in Jordan and he delivered. There was no slight , Jackson has 11 rings , Scottie is the best sidekick That was credit where credit is due.
There's no reason to dog his wizards career. He was still putting up numbers and doing far better than anyone that age ever has. He was OLD at that point lol
Eric Wheeler Jr. it’s not hard to lead the league in scoring when you’re taking around 22 to 27 shots a game lmaooo. KD at most shot 20 shots a game. Not only is Kd more efficient but his jumper is better than Jordan’s especially from deep
Jordan didn’t have weak competition he had competition that spanned across every team. LeBron has played against teams with no stars and teams who have had 4 stars. There is a slight difference
it isnt a slight difference, its a HUGE difference. If you go back to that graph the creator posted at 18:25, 4 teams had 4+ of those players on one team. while jordan had to go against only clyde in one finals and only charles barkley in another. That is a huge factor in lebron and mjs finals records
@@freakzy1764yeah! But there are two ways to see this. The way you did, and to say that LBJ had less competition to reach tha finals. And that LBJ played in more stacked teams. There is the chart in this video showing exaclty that.
Jordan def has the strongest claim as the GOAT. He wasn't the ultimate physical specimen like Wilt, didn't win as much as Russel, wasn't as good a shooter as Bird, wasn't the leader that Duncan was, and wasn't the ultimate teammate like Magic was. However, he did everything on a top level, and was the ultimate master of all. He did what he needed to do to win, and he always went all in.
and that post fade was killer. I always believed it was that shot that separated him from Kobe and Lebron. When the bulls needed 2, needed to end a run against them, needed to get a run started, when Jordan was struggling to put the ball in the net. he'd call for the ball in the low-mid post, and start unleashing that fade, over and over again, and nothing could stop it. no double team, no triple team, no matter how cold he was from the field, he couldn't miss with that fade. And what made that fade terrifying for everyone involved, was he had the fasted post-spin to the hoop in the league. so you COULDN'T overplay the fade, no matter how certain you were it was coming, or else you'd be left standing there looking at open air as Jordan made an uncontested layup or dunk. He always had that shot, and because of it he NEVER HAD FEAR of taking an important shot. LBJ's J was never reliable, people talk about him taking smart BB moves passing out of scoring position to open team mates at the end of games, the truth is LBJ never had a J he could trust enough in tight games, his J was/is streaky, so he'd pass out when he couldn't get to the rim, rather then pull up on an untrusty J. It's why people who saw Jordan play just can't fathom people calling LBJ the goat. Because he seems to shirk having the ball when the game matters (he doesn't really, but he does pass out of it a LOT, because again, no reliability with that J). Meanwhile Kobe, never saw a bad shot he didn't mind taking, he was the opposite of Jordan, where Jordan was efficiency personified Kobe often seemed just as likely to jack up a double covered contested 3 while off balance as he was to take a smart efficient shot. It's the eye test, it's why the pretenders always seem to shrink in the eyes of fans who watched jordan live.
@@andreingramakadjscrewrip7372 Then the title should be making a case for MJ through criticizer's argument and some that haven't been said. If he wants to make a case for someone, he should be thorough.
@@nm9872 @n m Oh man, all the arguments are so convincing. I think it depends on your own definition of what greatness is. I know that's the cop out answer. I think Wilt and MJ are winning at the moment for me. But then that's purely as individuals - others seem more team oriented and that matters. there is another to go isnt there. maybe I'll wait and see.
Jordan was something special, there might be other guys that come along but they'll be their own thing, jordan was electrifying to watch. I had the privilege of watching a live playoff game in charlotte Coliseum against hornets when I was 12 and it was an experience I'll never forget. I lost all focus on my hometown hornets and was mesmerized by this no. 23 on the court that looked like he owned the court and it was his basketball and he just did whatever he wanted with it and had his way with my poor charlotte squad *(charlotte actually had a half decent team in 90s) but it was so obvious he was the man and he was respected and feared and all attention went to him but no one could stop him and he made it look easy like he was only giving it 75%
The quality of your videos is absolutely incredible. In my humble opinion Jordan is the Greatest of All Time, and this is one of the videos that makes him the most justice in all of TH-cam. Keep up the amazing content!
I'm sure like most subscribers we were really looking forward to covering Michael Jordan. Was a bit underwhelmed to see it only be 27mins long. I guess in my head youd go through all the achievements and stats. I'm pretty new to basketball so it would of been nice to see some depth. Also not including his time in the wizards is a little unfair. He did great things at this age, even after injuring himself. Definitely deserved more attention than... none. But I consider MJ the goat. The fact you didn't break down his career and went on the defence shows that he is different. His legacy is that powerful. I'll give this a rewatch for sure.
He went on the defense because he was trying to build up his case for Leflop. He's a L3-6ronsexual afterall. Interestingly, this was his weakest case of all. And its for the player with BY FAR the strongest casd based on the very criteria he's been using up to this point.
This is a very, VERY impressive video essay. Like it deserves an award or something. Also, at 20:13 the look on MJ's face really sums up his domineering and authoritarian leadership style. Being his teammate must have been quite scary at times...
Clayton Crowley I’m interested in giving you a Jordan FAQ. your pistons point just shows that no one who speaks on him can do so without material fact omissions, misrepresentations and half truths. You said that in all four of the pistons losses, MJ had pippen and grant. Someone your age may hear this and say “well, that’s a knock on Jordan.” There are people who can’t wait to call the pistons old in 1991 (Isiah and Rodman were 29 and dumars was 27, so this is comical - even more so when you consider Jordan was 35 and Rodman was 36 when they won their last title in 98... but the pistons were “old”) who also, like yourself, will fail to mention that pippen and grant were 22, 23 and 24 when they lost to detroit. They turned 25 and it wasn’t even a competitive Series bro... Jordan won the mvp in 1988. He didn’t get better or less selfish by 91 (his highest APG came in 89).. Scottie Pippen stopped being a raw awkward kid and Horace Grant toughened up. We can go back and forth if you want an education. I have boat loads of material. Jordan misconception “well, you know, Kareem won as many rings as Jordan and had more MVPs.” This sounds great until you go ONE FACT DEEPER and explain that “well actually Jimmy (bob knight voice), Jordan was the clear leader of all six rings whereas Kareem wasn’t even the third best laker in 87 and 88.” “Well yeah, Jordan scored 63 on Boston but Boston won the game and swept the series.” Uh, ok.. Jordan had Charles Oakley, Orlando woolridge and 9 guys from the mall.. the Celtics has five hall of famers including four in their prime. The only non hall of fame starter, Danny ainge, is the only person in American history to be a high school all American in all three major sports, was college player of the year WHILE PLAYING FOR THE BLUE JAYS lmao. “Well you know wilt was more dominant.” Uh, wilt choked in the 69 and 70 Finals worse than Lebron in 2011. Go search on TH-cam for video of wilt in 69 against a 35 year old bill russsell. Russell has five fouls in the 4th quarter of game 7, wilt isn’t demanding the ball and the laker offense is going through jerry west
I would've bet this would have been the last video of the series. And while all of your videos are convincing, this is truly the one above all. Try as I might, I can never seem to dethrone Michael as the best. And I'm a LeBron fan.
I've always thought, and still do, that Jordan is the greatest but my complaint about the myth of Jordan, the myths all great players get laid at their feet, is to ignore his flaws and failures diminishes the greatness he achieved. Too many awful Jordan stans want to wave away he was at times selfish, a bad teammate, a stat padder (of which he and his coaches fully admitted to in an article in 1987) and pretend he was a god. To me, the actual Michael Jordan, not the myth, is a far more interesting player and it makes what he achieved even greater. Jordan had to evolve as a teammate and continued to evolve his game throughout his career. He played a certain way at times and once it wasn't working, or wasn't working as well as he wanted, he adapted. It's the learning, growing, evolving, that makes what he accomplished so great. Jordan wasn't the greatest leader, his style of leadership works but is very limited, but he was the greatest basketball player I've ever seen that often made up for some flaws in his leadership and his story and accomplishments are much greater when you see how he had to work at it, was imperfect, but great. Some Jordan fans act so sensitive when you point out certain things, not even criticisms of Jordan, just point something out that doesn't treat him like a perfect god, it gets annoying and their sainthood of him has and will always detract from his greatness. When you look at Jordan's career realistically and take away fan bias and see the nuances of his career, it makes his GOAT status more convincing because you see how hard he worked for it.
Great work here. I especially enjoyed your discussion of Duncan and Jordan. So difficult to discuss MJ, as you say at the start, and yet you did it really well. Kudos.
Crowly really needs to downplay Jordan in the beginning. Exact opposite for what he did so far with any other candidates. Speak to how godly Mike's goat claim really is.
Jordan was schooling damn near everyone as a wizard. If it weren't for that injury, Rick Hamilton might've been a champion before he went to the Pistons!
Okay Jordan was good on the Wizards but let’s not get crazy here, that team was never going to win a championship even if Jordan had been 10 years younger.
when winning every practice game against an all NBA selection during summer of 1984 as an amateur representing team USA that was something that blown me away after learning about it
5:34 "were just gonna ignore the wizard years cause it's just the right thing to do" Dude obviously didn't do his homework. People started spreading that rumor a few years ago that Jordan's 2 years with the wizards he was garbage. 26ppg at the All star break and was in the mvp race. 2nd year 20 ppg at age 39-40 and multiple 40 point games at 40 years old!!! How the f*ck is that bad?? I was watching and very interested up until that point. Ruined it dude. Edit: I can't leave my comment as is. Watched a few times and you actually put in so much work in this bro that there were highlights that I don't ever remember seeing before...great video dude. Got me hyped up. But shoulda respected the wizards years
You 100% right, his Wizards years are criminally underrated. All metrics and stats show he was peaking yet again in 2001 but that injury ruined everyting. What he did in 2002-03 is hella impressive because he was fucking 40 after retiring twice. For me, THE UNDISPUTED GOAT
Expansion teams doesn’t dilute the talent pool. It allows talented players to play in the NBA. Jordan escalation was infectious for the league. Like all best players in the world, he was the bar for which all players were measured and the game and teams on both sides of the ball was at the leagues all time best.
How do you prove that? A guy doesn’t have to be “worse” because he’s a fringe player. There can be all kinds of extenuating circumstances that teams narrow their rosters to 12,players. Most of that has to do with the fact that there’s just so many roster spots. There are a lot of players who teams would love to roster but can’t. The Magic was an expansion team. Were those players the worst when they rose to prominence in the early going? No. They were allowed to draft from an expanding pool of talent and drafted well. Anyway, the “myth” that expansion teams water down the league is just not an accurate assertion. By that logic, the most competitive era in basketball would be the 50s when there were 8 teams. An absurdity by most standards. Thank you for your input, though
You can't go 7-0 in 6 Finals appearances, only 6-0. You can't win 7 Finals MVPs in 6 appearances, only six. Never went to a game 7 in any of those 6 Championship seasons.
sorry, it is almost perfect, just missing from the end the "best sequel" with the steal from Malone before the shot. That's what represents even better his Airness. A defensive force and then finishing with a great shot. I am just kidding, the video is perfect :)
Micheal Jordan will forever stay the Goat in my eyes and no one can change my mind. LeBron is nowhere close to Jordan. I'm my opinion at least. The whole goat debate will never have a true answer
Im not a Lebron fan in fact I hate Lebron but when he at the heat and when he went back to the Cavs he could beat Michael in his prime. Not to be confused Michael can beat any player ever so far on a team because he’s the only player I’ve seen that not only play well by himself but his team played better with him in it. Lebron couldn’t do that. So in my opinion Lebron could beat MJ 1 on 1 but with a well coordinated team MJ could beat him with that.
Idk James was much bigger and stronger on the heat, posting Jordan up would be his best opportunity. Jordan at his prime was so damn athletic and in some shoes that people just wear for style now. Who knows how high he could jump with a better shoe and how much quicker his cuts could be.
Absolutely. You can't have a GOAT who literally quit in games or series. Jordan may have lost series but gave it all he had, usually for 45 to 48 minutes a game.
@@ethancbaker2002 If you think LBJ's a better 1-on-1 player and would/could beat MJ at this facet of the game, then you're an idiot. There's just no other way to say it.
one thing that is almost never talked about is THE FACT that Michael Jordan Only needed 13 Years for his Legacy PLUS he retired two times (4,5 Seasons nba abstinence) and came back twice older (wizard years). PLUS Defense was another world when Jordan ruled. In comparison, todays defense is more like a walk in the park. watch the 80s playoffs and finals, especially the detroit pistons. no offense, lebron is the best Small forward of all times! the sf goat. jordan is the sg goat. in my opionion, that is. #justsayin
I've been thinking about this. LeBron's will be about consistency. Finals streaks. Finals with three different teams (could be 4 this year). He's kind of the anti-Jordan. Jordan had Pippen the whole way along. Lebron just takes teams to finals.
@@onebigadvocado6376 To be fair though he had Kyrie, but we can argue that Pippen is better than Kyrie. The coaching part and the role players might be an L for Lebron though.
@@taiyou2331 Sorry, I don't think I made my point very well. LeBron had great teammates for some of his Finals runs, certainly all his Rings (Wade is better than Pippen, at least offensively), but they were different teams. Lebron just got on with winning, in a way that superteams don't always do.
@@onebigadvocado6376 Yea, Lebron is really good at joining teams about to make a run. It's like the bully in junior high making his team lopsided just so he can embarrass the other team. :) Also, his 5 for 37 in game ending shots is awesome. Really clutch right there.
Jordan wizards years are disregard due to the fact he came back to save the NBA, Stern promised him he would help him become a owner if he came back, the TV ratings were in the gutter, the ratings have never been what they were since MJ retired
It’s not just the 6>4 argument. It’s how he won those 6. I don’t think people realize how insane TWO three peats is, let alone one (especially in the modern era 1980-present)
One of my favorite things about Michael Jordan is how much he thanked and credited Scottie Pippen, humility from someone as trash-talking as Mike shows immense strength of character.
Great video, but ignoring his wizards seasons is not the right thing to do, its part of his legacy, as a wizard he was the greatest old man to ever play, none come close, all of those games were great games, this old man scored more points in a game that many players will never score in a game, him as a wizard caps his career as the greatest of all time, never ignore those great and extremely underrated seasons as a wizard
I got straight up chills at the end. I’ve only been a basketball fan for a few months but that shot sends shivers through my whole body every time I see it. I wasn’t even there to witness it live nor was any family member of mine but, wow just wow.
You could have just made 7 videos called making the case of whose the 2nd greatest of all time, and I think that would reflect the reality of Michael's greatness. This is coming from a Bad Boys Pistons fan from my high school days. I hated Jordan, until I matured enough to respect his greatness beyond all others.
LeBron also never was given a team like Jordan. His best teammate pre-Heat was a 1 time all star lmao. Jordan was given a HOF player in Pippen to win his 1st 3, and then they added Rodman (also HOF) to get the next 3. Incredible, impressive run--not taking that away from Jordan. But acting like LeBron's Cavs teams pre-Kyrie/Kevin Love were comparable to Jordan's Bulls teams after Scottie...man that's just ignorant.
Been on three teams...? Also dragged bums for his first 7 years in the NBA. Cavs went from Finals contenders to 19-63 after he left. He wasted too much time there and Cavs org handled him like shit.
@@MeTakingAStandCompletely agree. People dont give Bron nearly enough credit for how much carrying he had to do. Bron's impact on the Cavs was greater than Jordan's with the Bulls. Bulls still made it to Conference Semis after MJ left. Cavs went from Finals Contenders to 19-63 after Bron left.
I've watched all of these and you did a great job, after everyone I said, ya that guy is the goat. You did every single one of these great men justice. That had to be crazy hard. What a great series sir congratulations.
Never heard of this Jordan dude but I guess he’s pretty good at this basketball thing
....Clique?
Cal Galicia been watching a ton of him lately, was hoping someone would get the reference
Damn, each time I hear the phrase "I guess he's pretty good at this basketball thing" or "I guess he/she is good at this [whatever the subject] thing" I just instantly hear his monotone yet entertaining voice.
Hahahaha... Great comment!
Damn beat me to it...
Clayton: *Doesn't save Jordan for the last video in the series*
Jordan: "So, you know - I took it personally"
I thought for sure he would do that
Yeh but wouldn't we have to wait until LeBron's retirement?
@@ryanosbourne9945 nope he already has a case
@@itzwakk335 he did already do lebron, right? i cant remember.. tim duncan, magic johnson, kareem, bill russell, wilt chamberlain, mj..was larry bird in one? so maybe he didnt do lebron
@@gdirty7380 no lebron yet
Damn, Clayton really decided to save Scalabrine for last, huh?
You are wrong, sir.
It's Paul Pierce.
Lmfaoooo
Milan stans stand up
Ivo Rebac game of zones reference? You are the goat
Stop with the jokes. His Shaun Bradley video is going to be lit.
My favorite part about Jordans last shot as a Bull is the Utah fans. You see them just shake their heads and accept it. They saw it coming.
push off
@@jimbobmccricket7480
Nope.
@@jimbobmccricket7480 Cope
They saw it coming when he stole the ball
Part of the Jordan magic was everyone watching it knew what was gonna happen when he had the ball in that moment, even Jazz fans themselves.
The best case for Jordan as the GOAT, he IS the measuring stick. If you’re making the case for anybody else you have to compare them to Jordan.
That's kinda like saying the best case for the world being flat is that you have to prove the world is round. Someone one day will be undeniably better than Jordan if they haven't come already(perhaps Luka Doncic)
@@guitarsmasher13 Luka has to up his defensive game a whole lot if he wants to come anywhere close to Jordan. And I mean he has to be DPOY material.
@@guitarsmasher13 Luka has the potential, but he really needs to improve his defense before you can make the comparison. He's so young that he has a lot of years to improve though, and I'd love to see him develop into one of the deadliest 2-way players in the league.
I think that's more of an argument that he WAS the GOAT. That could be changing--we have to see how LeBron's career ends. GOAT is more than just who was the best at what they did (Tim Duncan) or who had the highest peak (Jordan). It's who had the greatest career and left the best legacy (Jordan and/or perhaps LeBron).
Eventually LeBron will be the measuring stick
For me, the best argument for Jordan as the GOAT is his return from his retirement. To be on the top of the world, win 3 consecutive rings, retire for 2 years and then return for another threepeat. This wouldn't have been believeable if it was a movie.
Not really, considering Bill had 8 consecutive rings already.
Still the second most ridiculous run in bball history.
@E BO bro your hate is real. it is blinding you. you are missing what he is pointing out. yes, he shouldn't have retired but he did. and to come back mid season (lost) but won the next year. sorry, but you plain hating. now, you said but he still score 55 points again the knicks and so on, that just shows how good he was.
@E BO You're totally right and this is what Clayton was pointing out in the video. People can't objectively reason that Jordan had faults.
@E BO I agree that everyone must acknowledge the truth, but I guess my thing is, I don't really care that he lost that one year. Not when you redeem yourself in the grandest way possible. That one lost doesn't make 6-0 or 6 rings in 8 years any less impactful. It's still an outstanding feat that will very seldom repeat. No one can win every year, and coaches, front office management, players etc make adjustments each season addressing weaknesses, in the attempt to win. Acquiring Rodman is a part of the game, it's fair because any team could have got him, and his defense and rebounding definitely contributed to the victories. It's a team sport, a collective effort but I adamantly believe w/o MJ the Bulls certainly were not getting over the hump to win it all...3 times. Esp in 98 with an injured Pippen.
MJ literally was like "you know what I'm a just retire and play baseball" then he came back won 3 more and retired again. he then came BACK in his Wizards days dropped 30+ points and retired again.
I don't know Tim Duncan opening his eyes wide at me sounds really scary to me.
the way he grabbed tony by his jersey lmaoo
Time stamp?
if he gave me the stare i’d probably pass him the ball even if i were on the opposite team😂
its scarier when you're looking upwards
Marios Paparizos Timestamp?
Low key, MJ was still really good in his Wizard days. He was on a tear until injuries took their toll. He really helped the franchise find success compared to before he was there!
I agree. In some respect people may find it hard to accept a non "air Jordan" as still playing great basketball which is why they dismiss his wizard years. But he still could dominate and get buckets without needing to blow by and jump over people.
If not for the injury the wizards would have been a tough team to face in the playoffs that year.
I'm not saying they would have won it all or even gotten to the finals but you never know how things go, maybe they could have gotten to the ECF....
Still averaged over 20ppg 5ast and 6reb and was a threat to drop 40 on any given night, at 38 and 39 years old after sitting out 3 seasons prior to returning.
@@PSUDarius2032 exactly!!! Someone doing that at any age would be praised by since it was an old Jordan people dismiss it just like in this video.
mdace34 ON AN EXPANSION TEAM AT THAT!
@@PSUDarius2032 yup. Now. I'm not going to go too overboard with his Wizard years but I think at the very least the author of this vid should have noted at least this much about Jordan on the Wizards rather than ignoring it with a suggestion that he did poorly.
Michael Jordan’s statue in front of the United Center has the best quote to describe him, “The best there ever was. The best there ever will be.”
Damn that's how Barcelona [confidently] speaks about Messi. Purely amazing humans.
2038: I am the greatest player of all time
@@theanonymouslegion4811 both are clearly the greatest athletes in team sports history
@@jshonsmith3399 bill Russell
The "best there ever will be" part is pretty arrogant though. In 1966 NOBODY would stop and think: "oh yeah, Wilt and Russ are the GREATEST EVER, at least until 1984 when the Bulls draft Michael Jordan." Nah.
MJ is so great that instead of making arguments for why he is the GOAT, you had to make arguments for why he isn’t the undisputed GOAT.
Agreed
That’s facts
i mean, he does that for every video, but okay.
That’s not what he did he had to talk about the insanely toxic Jordan fan girls that act like he’s literally Jesus.
True. I don’t think he’s undisputed as some doc, but he’s still the obvious #1 GOAT pick which says a lot
I was looking forward to this more than any Marvel movie released in the past decade!
Same
Not hard to beat but I see your poont
So true
Gr8axeK0 endgame but I also see ur point
why does it say the comment was 1 day ago when it was posted 3 hours ago
This guy convinced me that Tim Duncan is the GOAT
I think he's gonna make me think MJ truly is god
Same he convinced me everybody was the goat
Lol for sure.
update: he does make Jordan look like a god
@@XephSlayer can confirm, no longer an atheist
Je literally says at the start that he doesn't think one person is truly the goat, but he tries to make the case for every single person in his videos... And it works
Clayton : Doesn’t save MJ until last MJ : That made me kinda mad so I dropped 50k subs on him Fr would be deserved though
Missed the perfect chance to say “MJ: so I took it personal” lol
Yeah I was thinking. These seem roughly in order. Does this mean he might think LeBron is the GOAT? I also kinda think some of the discussion on Jordan's supporting cast is preparing the case for LeBron.
@@benbauer7866 I'm thinking/hoping we get a controversial opinion for his final entry in the series... Everyone so far is pretty much consensus and I understand the argument for them being the GOAT which is why I thought Jordan would be the final one (unrelated but don't act like LeBron don't need a supporting cast either)
@@benbauer7866 MJ IS THE GOAT
@@benbauer7866 Its damn near impossible to make the case for Lebron over MJ based on the criteria he's been using, MJ has won twice as many rings. Twice as many finals MVPs, 9 more scoring titles, 1 more MVP. He's also 1st all time in BPM, PER, WS48, PPG and he's ahead of Lebron in total win shares per game and VORP per games and ahead of him in total win shares through 179 playoff games and VORP through 179 playoff games. Its pretty much an open and shut case. He literally holds an advantage ovrr Lebron in every advanced analytic and has way more accomplishments and accolades in less amount of time.
You left out the best part of his last shot. He forced the turnover and took it down the court. All MJ.
nah, you are focusing on the wrong stuff. Look at him, his wrist, his elegance... frozen for a split second.
lebron do that all the time
@texas barbecue sauce mj is a cheat
@@rogerdragao3508 nigga said, MJ is a myplayer with max stats
@@rogerdragao3508 the LeGlazing is insane
(cool intro music)
Clayton Crowley is special. The tone of his voice and the intentionality of his vocabulary give TH-camrs the most intimate experience in basketball education that exists. And because of the different perspectives our backgrounds allow for, viewers develop their own distinct interpretations through validation, points of contention, and new information.
And although no content creator succeeds alone, the solitary nature of Clayton's efforts give him a nearly unprecedented amount of control over the flow and topics of his videos. For this reason his assertions are constantly compared to our preconceptions and our memories of the past in order to answer the least hotly debated question on the internet: who's the greatest to ever review it.
For many, this post is a wasted effort; they've long since stopped reading and moved on with life. Others might kinda get a chuckle but ultimately forget about it in the next few minutes, but I believe there's much more nuance to the substance of a great internet joke, and more ways to pull it off, than you might think.
By my count there are 8 of you who have read this far and I hope you derive substantial gain from this post. It's not really a subjective thing, though. You kind of already know the answer. That's why today, I'm not going to bother making the case for Clayton Crowley as the greatest basketball guy on TH-cam.
(cool outtro section of cool intro music)
I don’t know why but I red your comment with Clayton’s voice.
By the way, great comment. And I totally agree on that.
this was his worst video in this series, his dick sucking of MJ in this video was ridiculous.
W comment
@@edgarlopes8341 I completely agree with that.
@@Shockkings0714I'm making a case for this to be the greatest comment of all time
You keep "not" mentioning his days with the Wizards however it only dropped his PPG average by .4%. He still was averaging more than most 23 year olds in the league at the time. Just something to keep in mind
4 percent, not .4%, but yeah
@@inordirectional I think he ment 40% actually but even then that's kind of off. Jordan average 31.5 on the bulls. And 21.2 on the wizards meaning his scoring drop off 10.3 ppg. 10.3/31.5 is about .327 meaning his scoring dropped about 32.7%
@@sed1589 I think he was just off by a decimal place. He's talking about how much his career scoring average changed as a result of playing from the wizards: it went from 31.5 to 30.1, (31.5-30.1)/31.5 = -.04, ie it went down 4%.
@@inordirectional aaahh that makes sense.
He only played their for 2 years after 13 years with the bulls, that’s only 164 games to well over a thousand, his averages were never gonna drop off very much unless he only scored like 5 points a game for 2 years
Legitimately got so hype when I saw the thumbnail, this series is undisputedly the GOAT
I really like how Clayton handled the black and white nature with talking about Michael Jordan. It’s impressive how he brings up so many good points while still talking about the different accomplishments that we’ve all heard about a million times.
At 41, I was prime viewing audience for the NBA of the 1990's and all the Jordan mania... As a New Yorker and a Knicks fan, Michael Jordan broke our hearts more times than I can count, but you never begrudged him or his team their success.
You know he nearly ended up a Knick? Some say it was a bluff but he very nearly signed with them during negotiations after championship number 4… Ny would have won for sure, it would have been awesome.
Serious question: Why do people always talk about MJ's Wizards years as if the should be forgotten forever? I mean sure - it wasn't the unstoppable Jordan from the Bulls era, but the man was still scoring like 20 a game at age 40. Am I missing something? Is it just because the Wizards collectively didn't do amazingly?
It was the difference between what he'd been at that last shot to win vs. the Jazz and what he was with the Wizards - THE MAN vs. A (still very talented) mortal.
No one cares
He was scoring 20 by trading all scoring talent and making himself first option.
Because those wizards team went under 500 in wins. Even when he came back for the 2nd year healthy they still had the same record. There's a video about his time with the wizards that really speaks volumes. However just because his wizards day were far from glorious doesn't mean he still cant be the goat. It's ok to have faults. Every basketball player has them.
Jordan was trash as a wizard. He shot an abysmal 40% from the field to average just over 20ppg.
Kinda hope you don’t actually ignore his Wizards career as it helps his case I think more than it hurts it
Yeah a 40 year dropping 40pts, multiple 30pt games. Taking an injured Wizards squad to the playoffs. Averaging 20ppg while being fat and smoking. That block on Ron Artest. He had Two Allstar apperance (not out of pity or respect, but bc he was an allstar through and through) avg 21/6reb/5ast with over a steal a game and .5 blocks a game in 2 seasons as someone who is middle aged shows his longevity
@@GregoryFord98
He didn't lead them to the playoffs either year and his shooting percentage was poor. He was still a good player at best.
@@justsayin669 before he hurt his knee in 2002 he was putting up the same numbers as Kobe's MVP season while with the Wizards and had them well inside the playoff bubble. He then missed 22 games and then was playing basically on one leg the rest of the Wizards era.
@Requiem All true but his career numbers stayed over 30ppg 2.3 steals pg, and the only retired player (so far) to average 20ppg every season of his career. Oh and he because of his extra stint as a wizard he became one of 5 player (at the time of his retirement) to score at least 30k points
Just Sayin jordan had to 35 years old to take that team to the playoffs,he was 39 to 40 . The wizards were 19 - 63 L Before jordan, 37 - 45 L ,last season,but 25 - 57L,when he left, Just saying
the fact that scottie accepted being a 'sidekick' when he could've easily went to another team and put empty stats means a lot if you ask
Can say the same for Manu
scottie is a good player no doubt about it the only reason why they manage to win when jordan retired is because they have stable offensive system . he is a supplementary role/star player that can lead a team only in 1st-2nd round in a playoffs but not a superstar player . he is in the group of kevin machale/james worthy/tony parker/klay thompson and joe dumars . a 2nd or 3rd guy on the team .
@@dtechzsama Exactly, as great as Scottie was, he wasn't that guy to lead the team to win. People also forget what happened during his second solo year too; they were barely .500 and Jordan's return boosted the morale going 13-4 towards the end of the season.
@@JoeKen3 naahh tehy just want a false narrative about pippen to discredit jordans credential and make a case for their idol lebron , mosty of them actualy XD but if u really understand the game of basketball u know scottie is just a boarderline allstar-roleplayer . jordan mold him since the day they drafted him . if the bulls didnt draft him we will never heard of him i promise u that XD
Scottie is a legend for that, but his sucky contract also has to be credited for that a tad bit.
His wizards career was underrated man
@Mr. Layth Adrian gonna ask a question... how wasnt he in the list of the best players of the league if HIM joining the wizards (till his injury) turned them from a 19-61 record team to a 26-21 record team (till his torn meniscus) , during that 26-21 stretch (also Rip Hamilton who was the 2nd best player in the team missed 5 weeks of playing time due to him having groing injury problems, with both of them healthy their streak was 15-1) Wizards were on a 47 win pace ... turned them from the 2nd worse defense in the league to the 6th best allowing only 92.2 ppg, in his last 35 pre injury games the wizards allowed 90 ppg = 3rd in the nba. in the 15-1 stretch they allowed only 86.3 ppg which was by far the best defense in the league. By the end of the RS the best defense was Miamis which allowed 88.7 and finished 1st on that category.
He was still a top 10 player.... With the wizards... 40yr old
.
@@mariopantoja8259 Was actually in MVP conversation before the injury.
Oldest player to score 40, and 50 but that’s about it. His teammates couldn’t stand him. His personality as a teammate doesn’t work when you can’t even reach the playoffs.
@@mariopantoja8259 top 10? You’re joking
Before Jordan it was accepted fact that the league scoring leader could never win the championship
A guard, especially.
I mean he lead the league in scoring and won a title 6 times and out of everyone else in nba history did it 5 times by 4 people
and that you couldn't win without a dominate big man
three players did do that before Jordan tho
@@mutt5701 I don’t think anyone did it,over and over and over then over and over and over again, just saying
After retiring from the Chicago Bulls in early 1999, Michael Jordan became the Washington Wizards' president of basketball operations as well as a minority owner in January 2000. However, in September 2001, Michael Jordan came out of retirement at age 38 to play basketball for the Washington Wizards. Jordan stated that he was returning "for the love of the game." Because of NBA rules, he had to divest himself of any ownership of the team. Before the All-Star break, Jordan was only one of two players, along with Kobe Bryant, to average more than 25 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists as he led the Wizards to a 26-21 record, and the only player to average more than 25 points, 6 rebounds, and 5 assists. Tracy McGrady would become the only player to average at least 25-6-5 by the end of the 2001-02 season
However, in the last game before the All-star break, Jordan suffered a knee injury in a collision with Etan Thomas on February 7 against the Sacramento Kings.[3][4] The Wizards would lose 9 of their next 10 games following Jordan's knee injury. It is also worth noting that Rip Hamilton missed 5 weeks of playing time due to a groin injury[5] in the Wizards' 26-21 stretch. Starting with a November 28 win over the Philadelphia 76ers, the Wizards were 15-1 in the last 16 games that Jordan and Hamilton played together prior to Jordan's injury on February 7.[6] After the all-star break, Jordan's knee could not handle the workload of a full-season as he ended the season on the injured list, and the Wizards concluded the season with a 37-45 record. Still, Jordan had led the Wizards to an 18-win improvement from the previous season.
i wonder how he did as a gm for the wizards...
@@gkdunch whats does that have to do with anything. The discussion of the GOAT is about players. Not GMs. That award goes to R.C. Buford
@@elcochino8139 the goat is the greatest of all time, greatest stretches past his career's end.
lmao that's a big stretch@@gkdunch
I honestly wasn't even sure you were gonna do MJ. Could be a 10 second video "MJ is the goat because of the same reasons everyone on earth gives"
Edit: Haha pretty much how he opens it
😂
We all no the answer already, but I'll recap.
Proceeds to show every iconic moment seared into every NBA fans memory 😂
Bulls didn’t lose 4 playoff series to Detroit; they lost 3. Also, you mentioned Pippen being there for all of the Detroit losses. This is true, but he wasn’t anything close to resembling the Scottie Pippen we know until the 1990 loss. Pippen averaged 10 and 13 points in the 88 and 89 losses. I feel like you could have been a little more thorough than that. I love this series for the most part though, and MJ is far and away the goat.
Ppl act like Pippen was a all star when he came in the league. He was on the bench the whole year. Also never seen a guy get so much hate for losing his first few years in the league the way MJ does. A lot of guys don't even make the playoffs their first few years in the league
U can tell he doesn’t want ppl to think MJ is Goat. He tells you why by saying ppl want to say they saw the goat play. He was under 5 when Jordan won in 98. This dude is trash I’ve learned nothing about any player from watching these. MJ is in a class by himself period. I feel like this dude won Participation trophy’s growing up.
@@tannerboyle6610 calm down lol this comment section is just praising this man and this series and your just out here killing the vibe
Tanner Boyle yeah u could tell he has a little bit of something towards MJ, cause of the way possible used to praise him. I watched all his other GOAT videos and this one felt a little different
@@tannerboyle6610 That doesn't matter that he was a kid. His grandparents probably didn't even get together when Russell and Chamberlain were playing, yet he still made videos for them
Michael Jordan was actually great in his 1st season at Wizards. Check Jonny Arnett's video about it.
Truth. He does excellent content as well
He mainly did it to sell jerseys because I would just go to the game because Michael Jordan was there
@@ethancbaker2002 I thought he donated his salaries to the 9/11 fund
@@GameChanger-xi4iy also Truth
He played because he had an under the table deal to purchase the wizards after 2 seasons since the NBA ratings dropped when he retired.
Do you remembers the 99 finals lol?
That brief second when he stood there and stared at his last shot. What an image. It's like he was processing his entire legacy in that one short moment.
Great video. But one only needs to show highlights from 1985 to 1999 and watch how he plays. People who understand basketball will see it... He does things 8-10 times a game that would be the greatest move of mortal players careers.
IMO, jordan plays are pure art of basketball
His Wizard years is the only thing people don't use to boost his case. He was 38-40 & still averaging 20+ . Had the Wizards on pace to be a top three team in the conference with Rip Hamilton as the next best player before both got hurt.
yeah but they were not winning the title vs the west and it is hard to imagine them beating the nets in 03 in particular with an experienced roster..and in 02 the wiz were not experienced so i don't trust them to make the finals
wizards were a .500 team with jordan. dont make up stuff. he was atrociously inefficient in his wizard years. he wasnt wahed by any means but he wasnt jordan anymore either. he doenst need the wizard years for his case as the goat and i guess most ppl view him as the best ever anyway. no need to artificially boost his legacy with that washington stent. he was not bad there but he also was far from his former self.
@@peterpan3022 Look at the month and a half before he got hurt. He wasn't inefficient and his team was playing better than .500
would've made the playoffs no sweat if he hadn't been injured
@@peterpan3022 This is wrong. After his injuries, sure. But before he was injured on the Wizards, he was still great. Obviously not peak Jordan, but _great._
Growing up, watching Michael Jordan was an amazing experience! I feel for the younger generation who weren't able to watch Jordan back then. He really was one of the biggest stars on Earth, and just backed it up on the court every night. He is the GOAT.
You should call this series: Making the Case for Second Place, because we all know Brian Scalabrine is the GOAT
But in all seriousness I love this series
Teddy what offense you just have saying the *WHITE MAMBA* is a joke😔
@@teddylovesit it's not a joke lol everybody knows that scalabrine is like god if god became god
Teddy it’s the scalabrine language (the language of gods)
@@teddylovesit You havent seen his 360 windmill 3 pointer? smfh dont disrespect the white mamba
@@teddylovesit what joke?
I don't know why we should ignore the wizards seasons, they were very good for someone his age
they were but he's not saying that like MJ played bad...he's saying that because at almost age 40 people would want him to take that lottery team to the Finals and win.
Your depiction of Michael Jordan is amongst the very best narrative I have ever heard. You truly have a gift, unbiased, profound, sentiments. If you're reading this, this video is a triumph. A sensational play written by a thought provoking author. Well done, Sir.
One reason why I think Michael is the GOAT is because he's what you think about when you think about the greatest. It's something that is just apparent. You don't need to look at the technical aspects. I love that you make the case for others and I agree that others have great cases. I love that you have Tim Duncan up there because I do consider him one of the greatest of all time, but Michael was an essential part of the 90s. He was an icon. He was a legend. He has that aspect that nobody else in your series can claim to. I think that is what gives him the edge over the others.
Love your work. I spent the whole month looking forward to the next instalment. What bring MJ over the line as GOAT, for me, is that people like Magic Johnson and Charles Barkley say he is the GOAT. Acclaim by your peers and competitors is the highest form of praise.
1st off, this series has become some of my favorite media available. Great stuff. Keep doing your thing.
In 8th grade I was captain of my b-ball team - wearing 23 and with a brand new pair of Jordans on my feet. One of the things that gets completely lost in highlights is watching him lead that team through a season and into the playoffs. He was simply unreal.
Put it this way when Jordan retired the first time he was universally recognized as the Goat. He left at the peak of his career the impact he had on the culture and the game was unmatched. Then he comes out of retirement and wins 3 more in the fashion he did is legendary. I don’t believe anyone can reach that level again Jordan is the standard their all chasing him, yeah there are greats who passed him statistically but doesn’t mean they have reached that level of greatness. Jordan played the game to WIN at all costs that’s the point of competive sports and that’s the reason why he’s beloved by so many.
The difference, however, is when you make the team better yourself, when you grow together as a team. When Phil Jackson came to Chicago he was an assistant coach, he was nobody, Phil. Jackson worked his way up and worked with the players himself to get better. It's something completely different when you have a team and can simply bring in the stars or simply switch to the team where the best players are or where the best players are who are right for you. The development process of a team is much more important than switching or simply trading players to one
Personally, I think Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest pure athlete basketball (perhaps ANY sport) has ever seen, but Michael Jordan was the ULTIMATE competitor. Funny, when the GOAT discussion comes up it's always everybody else compared to M.J.. That alone should speak volumes to anybody who knows anything about basketball.
Oh, and kudos to you, Mr. Crowley, for the excellent work you do. YOU are the Michael Jordan of TH-cam!
All it means is that there was a lot more media coverage in the 90s compared to the 60s and 70s.
Just like how people value Kobe’s 81 instead of Wilts 100. Some people don’t even believe the 100 happened.lol
Wow this was so awesome! I'm 52 so I followed Jordan's entire career. I've never seen anything like him before, then and after. He was absolutely amazing. Poetry in motion. You showed me footage of him that I had never seen before. Thank you sir. Well done.
I saw this in my recommended I thought let’s F’ing go, these videos are awesome
As one of Clayton’s earliest subscribers, I have been excitedly anticipating when he would finally get to MJ, and I have to say, I was a little disappointed with the product. We spent a good portion of the video hearing that Scottie Pippen was a great player and that Phil Jackson was a great coach. If you don’t already know those two things, then you don’t know much. He also made it sort of appear as if the “Jordan Legend” was somewhat contrived and that no one could really be that good (i.e. that there’s a clear difference between the legend and the actual player). I don’t think anyone above the age of 4 really thinks that Michael Jordan made every shot or won every game, but the reason that Jordan was, and is, so great is BECAUSE the legend matches up with the reality in so many respects (take a random story like when he dunked on Mel Turpin in Utah just to shut some guy up on the sidelines).
I was not raised on TH-cam highlights. Between the 92-93 season and the 97-98 season I probably missed a total of 18 Bulls games. In my life, I saw Magic and Kareem play in person, I saw Shaq and Kobe play in person, and I’ve seen Durant play in person; there is literally no comparison with the actual on court presence of Jordan. He is so far beyond everyone else that I get why these younger guys just sort of refuse to believe it.
Two comments about the video: 1.) the final shot against Utah was precipitated by Jordan stealing the ball from the other team’s best player (who happens to be the 2nd all time leading scorer), we should have seen that part leading up to the shot. Why? Because it encapsulates Jordan’s game: he was the best at whatever needed to be done in any game at any time. You need a steal or a defensive stop? He’ll get it. You need a go ahead bucket? He’ll get it. You need a three? He’ll get it.
2.) it was a mistake to omit his time with the Wizards. While drafting Kwame (and many other things) was a terrible move on MJ’s part, his game continued to speak even at his advanced age. He still holds scoring records for a player age 38-40. This is significant because even though the Wizards were a bust, it was just another example of part of what makes Jordan so great: he is only interested in competing, and competing to the point of exhaustion. He is a total A hole-just watch his infamous Hall of Fame speech; but when you watch that speech, watch Pat Riley’s reactions in the crowd. Riley almost worships Jordan (including retiring 23 in Miami just out of sheer respect) because he recognizes Jordan for what he is: the ultimate competitor in the history of team sports. Like the statue says: “The best there ever was, the best there ever will be.”
I was dissapointed too. This was supposed to be epic. It only took a few minutes in before I realized he was already trying to strengthen his Lebron case by belittling MJ's achievments. MJ holds sooooo many records, sooooo many achievments. His case is so strong. This video was a tragedy,
E BO you sound like a bronsexual, go back to school
Facts
No! He wanted to separated Jordan the player from Jordan brand of stories and folktales
This is precise 6 for 6 with 6 fmvp, scoring at will and dpoy with 5 mvp and no one could beat him at that time
That is his story as player. Definitely leading goat convo but the story you guys are looking for of a GOD Jordan is just a story to tell the world so NBA becomes global
Everyone banked in Jordan and he delivered. There was no slight , Jackson has 11 rings , Scottie is the best sidekick
That was credit where credit is due.
"HE MADE PEOPLE BELIEVE IN SUPERHEROES" how's that not enough you dimwit.
I remember watching that final shot against the Jazz live. What a moment that was for me as a kid. A memory I will never forget.
There's no reason to dog his wizards career. He was still putting up numbers and doing far better than anyone that age ever has. He was OLD at that point lol
Good point, Josh Jones. That first season in Washington, he averaged about the same points per game as Tim Duncan when he won the MVP!
Until now
@@MylesKillis Lebron uses PEDs though. He couldn't have done this 20 years ago.
Can't wait for the Making the Case for Muggsy Bogues video!
Is that because he was the smal guy?
Pound for pound goat!
@@cactusdragon3553 allen iverson would like a word
He is the best. Metrics-wise, according to his peers, according to his resume, it's the total package.
Jordan in 1988 was near perfection personally. Jordan is the best volume scorer of all time. 50-55% during his career from midrange? That's nuts.
paysonfox88 KD has entered the chat
@@jemirtoussaint3440 KD doesn't have 10 scoring titles with 9 time all-defense to match, foh 😂
Eric Wheeler Jr. it’s not hard to lead the league in scoring when you’re taking around 22 to 27 shots a game lmaooo. KD at most shot 20 shots a game. Not only is Kd more efficient but his jumper is better than Jordan’s especially from deep
Jemir Toussaint agreed
Jordan didn’t have weak competition he had competition that spanned across every team. LeBron has played against teams with no stars and teams who have had 4 stars. There is a slight difference
it isnt a slight difference, its a HUGE difference. If you go back to that graph the creator posted at 18:25, 4 teams had 4+ of those players on one team. while jordan had to go against only clyde in one finals and only charles barkley in another. That is a huge factor in lebron and mjs finals records
Jordan did play in a watered down league though.
@@freakzy1764yeah! But there are two ways to see this. The way you did, and to say that LBJ had less competition to reach tha finals. And that LBJ played in more stacked teams. There is the chart in this video showing exaclty that.
Beautifully put Man been waiting to watch this one in the series Great video Keep em coming
Jordan def has the strongest claim as the GOAT. He wasn't the ultimate physical specimen like Wilt, didn't win as much as Russel, wasn't as good a shooter as Bird, wasn't the leader that Duncan was, and wasn't the ultimate teammate like Magic was. However, he did everything on a top level, and was the ultimate master of all. He did what he needed to do to win, and he always went all in.
and that post fade was killer. I always believed it was that shot that separated him from Kobe and Lebron. When the bulls needed 2, needed to end a run against them, needed to get a run started, when Jordan was struggling to put the ball in the net. he'd call for the ball in the low-mid post, and start unleashing that fade, over and over again, and nothing could stop it. no double team, no triple team, no matter how cold he was from the field, he couldn't miss with that fade. And what made that fade terrifying for everyone involved, was he had the fasted post-spin to the hoop in the league. so you COULDN'T overplay the fade, no matter how certain you were it was coming, or else you'd be left standing there looking at open air as Jordan made an uncontested layup or dunk. He always had that shot, and because of it he NEVER HAD FEAR of taking an important shot. LBJ's J was never reliable, people talk about him taking smart BB moves passing out of scoring position to open team mates at the end of games, the truth is LBJ never had a J he could trust enough in tight games, his J was/is streaky, so he'd pass out when he couldn't get to the rim, rather then pull up on an untrusty J. It's why people who saw Jordan play just can't fathom people calling LBJ the goat. Because he seems to shirk having the ball when the game matters (he doesn't really, but he does pass out of it a LOT, because again, no reliability with that J). Meanwhile Kobe, never saw a bad shot he didn't mind taking, he was the opposite of Jordan, where Jordan was efficiency personified Kobe often seemed just as likely to jack up a double covered contested 3 while off balance as he was to take a smart efficient shot. It's the eye test, it's why the pretenders always seem to shrink in the eyes of fans who watched jordan live.
More accurate video title: Making the Case Against the Case Against Michael Jordan
Exactly. Mostly all he did was talk about Jordans criticizers' arguments
@@benjaminschwartz1242 Like he stated, what CAN he talk about that hasn't already been said about Jordan's GOAT case?
@@andreingramakadjscrewrip7372 then he shouldn't have made the video at all.
@@andreingramakadjscrewrip7372 Then the title should be making a case for MJ through criticizer's argument and some that haven't been said.
If he wants to make a case for someone, he should be thorough.
@@basha8836 j
I'm from the UK. I've never watched basketball and I love this series and these case studies
It's brilliant and to me seems really objective.
Wait the uk is real?
If the answer seems objective, I’m curious as to who your pick is.
@@nm9872
@n m
Oh man, all the arguments are so convincing.
I think it depends on your own definition of what greatness is. I know that's the cop out answer.
I think Wilt and MJ are winning at the moment for me.
But then that's purely as individuals - others seem more team oriented and that matters.
there is another to go isnt there. maybe I'll wait and see.
Jordan was something special, there might be other guys that come along but they'll be their own thing, jordan was electrifying to watch. I had the privilege of watching a live playoff game in charlotte Coliseum against hornets when I was 12 and it was an experience I'll never forget. I lost all focus on my hometown hornets and was mesmerized by this no. 23 on the court that looked like he owned the court and it was his basketball and he just did whatever he wanted with it and had his way with my poor charlotte squad *(charlotte actually had a half decent team in 90s) but it was so obvious he was the man and he was respected and feared and all attention went to him but no one could stop him and he made it look easy like he was only giving it 75%
"There may have never been a more nightmarish matchup on BOTH ends of the court..." With ALL due respect for Wilt , that sells it for me.
The quality of your videos is absolutely incredible. In my humble opinion Jordan is the Greatest of All Time, and this is one of the videos that makes him the most justice in all of TH-cam. Keep up the amazing content!
Been waiting for this 🙌🏼 you the true GOAT Clayton
I'm sure like most subscribers we were really looking forward to covering Michael Jordan.
Was a bit underwhelmed to see it only be 27mins long. I guess in my head youd go through all the achievements and stats. I'm pretty new to basketball so it would of been nice to see some depth.
Also not including his time in the wizards is a little unfair. He did great things at this age, even after injuring himself. Definitely deserved more attention than... none.
But I consider MJ the goat. The fact you didn't break down his career and went on the defence shows that he is different. His legacy is that powerful.
I'll give this a rewatch for sure.
He went on the defense because he was trying to build up his case for Leflop. He's a L3-6ronsexual afterall. Interestingly, this was his weakest case of all. And its for the player with BY FAR the strongest casd based on the very criteria he's been using up to this point.
@@Youngster543210 a year later I hope you’re not this insufferable cause he literally has called Jordan his goat
@@kinggeee9570 That's cause I called him on his bullshit.
@@kinggeee9570 Meh I'd only followed basketball for about the 2 months. Who bothers commenting on a 2 year old post XD
This is a very, VERY impressive video essay. Like it deserves an award or something.
Also, at 20:13 the look on MJ's face really sums up his domineering and authoritarian leadership style.
Being his teammate must have been quite scary at times...
Clayton Crowley I’m interested in giving you a Jordan FAQ.
your pistons point just shows that no one who speaks on him can do so without material fact omissions, misrepresentations and half truths.
You said that in all four of the pistons losses, MJ had pippen and grant. Someone your age may hear this and say “well, that’s a knock on Jordan.”
There are people who can’t wait to call the pistons old in 1991 (Isiah and Rodman were 29 and dumars was 27, so this is comical - even more so when you consider Jordan was 35 and Rodman was 36 when they won their last title in 98... but the pistons were “old”) who also, like yourself, will fail to mention that pippen and grant were 22, 23 and 24 when they lost to detroit. They turned 25 and it wasn’t even a competitive Series bro...
Jordan won the mvp in 1988. He didn’t get better or less selfish by 91 (his highest APG came in 89).. Scottie Pippen stopped being a raw awkward kid and Horace Grant toughened up.
We can go back and forth if you want an education. I have boat loads of material.
Jordan misconception “well, you know, Kareem won as many rings as Jordan and had more MVPs.”
This sounds great until you go ONE FACT DEEPER and explain that “well actually Jimmy (bob knight voice), Jordan was the clear leader of all six rings whereas Kareem wasn’t even the third best laker in 87 and 88.”
“Well yeah, Jordan scored 63 on Boston but Boston won the game and swept the series.”
Uh, ok.. Jordan had Charles Oakley, Orlando woolridge and 9 guys from the mall.. the Celtics has five hall of famers including four in their prime. The only non hall of fame starter, Danny ainge, is the only person in American history to be a high school all American in all three major sports, was college player of the year WHILE PLAYING FOR THE BLUE JAYS lmao.
“Well you know wilt was more dominant.”
Uh, wilt choked in the 69 and 70 Finals worse than Lebron in 2011. Go search on TH-cam for video of wilt in 69 against a 35 year old bill russsell. Russell has five fouls in the 4th quarter of game 7, wilt isn’t demanding the ball and the laker offense is going through jerry west
You know who the greatest is when all others are compared to them. It’s always MJ or ...
I would've bet this would have been the last video of the series. And while all of your videos are convincing, this is truly the one above all. Try as I might, I can never seem to dethrone Michael as the best. And I'm a LeBron fan.
MJ not saved for last? Interesting choice! Love this series! Thanks!
I'm guessing its because LeBron is in here and he's still active so the bubble could add to his case.
@@paulloy8728 Agreed. Lebron's case is still ongoing. I still have MJ as my GOAT, but I can understand his case.
He's done a LBJ one now. Interesting
I've always thought, and still do, that Jordan is the greatest but my complaint about the myth of Jordan, the myths all great players get laid at their feet, is to ignore his flaws and failures diminishes the greatness he achieved. Too many awful Jordan stans want to wave away he was at times selfish, a bad teammate, a stat padder (of which he and his coaches fully admitted to in an article in 1987) and pretend he was a god. To me, the actual Michael Jordan, not the myth, is a far more interesting player and it makes what he achieved even greater. Jordan had to evolve as a teammate and continued to evolve his game throughout his career. He played a certain way at times and once it wasn't working, or wasn't working as well as he wanted, he adapted. It's the learning, growing, evolving, that makes what he accomplished so great. Jordan wasn't the greatest leader, his style of leadership works but is very limited, but he was the greatest basketball player I've ever seen that often made up for some flaws in his leadership and his story and accomplishments are much greater when you see how he had to work at it, was imperfect, but great. Some Jordan fans act so sensitive when you point out certain things, not even criticisms of Jordan, just point something out that doesn't treat him like a perfect god, it gets annoying and their sainthood of him has and will always detract from his greatness. When you look at Jordan's career realistically and take away fan bias and see the nuances of his career, it makes his GOAT status more convincing because you see how hard he worked for it.
Great work here. I especially enjoyed your discussion of Duncan and Jordan. So difficult to discuss MJ, as you say at the start, and yet you did it really well. Kudos.
Crowly really needs to downplay Jordan in the beginning. Exact opposite for what he did so far with any other candidates. Speak to how godly Mike's goat claim really is.
Yeah almost like hes trying to make it fair
Jordan was schooling damn near everyone as a wizard. If it weren't for that injury, Rick Hamilton might've been a champion before he went to the Pistons!
Okay Jordan was good on the Wizards but let’s not get crazy here, that team was never going to win a championship even if Jordan had been 10 years younger.
I'm pretty sure Jordan could've handpicked players in the league to play with at that point. Couple of good trades and who knows!
doubt the 2003 nets are losing to the wizards but in 2002 maybe
no way they beat the lakers or spurs
I'm 14 so I've grown up watching LeBron and only watching footage of michael, but even I know that MJ is the goat
when winning every practice game against an all NBA selection during summer of 1984 as an amateur representing team USA
that was something that blown me away after learning about it
Mj is the goat no debate. And he still dropped 50 on the wizards
nah it’s a debate and bron the real GOAT
5:34 "were just gonna ignore the wizard years cause it's just the right thing to do" Dude obviously didn't do his homework. People started spreading that rumor a few years ago that Jordan's 2 years with the wizards he was garbage. 26ppg at the All star break and was in the mvp race. 2nd year 20 ppg at age 39-40 and multiple 40 point games at 40 years old!!! How the f*ck is that bad?? I was watching and very interested up until that point. Ruined it dude.
Edit: I can't leave my comment as is. Watched a few times and you actually put in so much work in this bro that there were highlights that I don't ever remember seeing before...great video dude. Got me hyped up. But shoulda respected the wizards years
You 100% right, his Wizards years are criminally underrated.
All metrics and stats show he was peaking yet again in 2001 but that injury ruined everyting.
What he did in 2002-03 is hella impressive because he was fucking 40 after retiring twice.
For me, THE UNDISPUTED GOAT
Expansion teams doesn’t dilute the talent pool. It allows talented players to play in the NBA. Jordan escalation was infectious for the league. Like all best players in the world, he was the bar for which all players were measured and the game and teams on both sides of the ball was at the leagues all time best.
How do you prove that? A guy doesn’t have to be “worse” because he’s a fringe player. There can be all kinds of extenuating circumstances that teams narrow their rosters to 12,players. Most of that has to do with the fact that there’s just so many roster spots. There are a lot of players who teams would love to roster but can’t. The Magic was an expansion team. Were those players the worst when they rose to prominence in the early going? No. They were allowed to draft from an expanding pool of talent and drafted well. Anyway, the “myth” that expansion teams water down the league is just not an accurate assertion. By that logic, the most competitive era in basketball would be the 50s when there were 8 teams. An absurdity by most standards. Thank you for your input, though
You can't go 7-0 in 6 Finals appearances, only 6-0. You can't win 7 Finals MVPs in 6 appearances, only six. Never went to a game 7 in any of those 6 Championship seasons.
He had 3 game 7s and two game 5s( first round) during his championship run.
@@blackeesh463 You are correct. I didn't clarify that I meant in the Finals.
Best series of GOAT debates i've ever seen man, keep on the great work!
p.s Stil triggered u didn't name DENNIS RODMAN in MJ's best teammate
That story at the end almost brings tears to any real sports fan. That's what it's about!
sorry, it is almost perfect, just missing from the end the "best sequel" with the steal from Malone before the shot. That's what represents even better his Airness.
A defensive force and then finishing with a great shot.
I am just kidding, the video is perfect :)
Right? I was hoping that would be included because that is what represents his best. Not a 15 foot shot.
Before the steal he hit two free throws. Rodman was talking to the crowd not even worried that MJ would miss them.
Micheal Jordan will forever stay the Goat in my eyes and no one can change my mind. LeBron is nowhere close to Jordan. I'm my opinion at least. The whole goat debate will never have a true answer
Agreed
Im not a Lebron fan in fact I hate Lebron but when he at the heat and when he went back to the Cavs he could beat Michael in his prime. Not to be confused Michael can beat any player ever so far on a team because he’s the only player I’ve seen that not only play well by himself but his team played better with him in it. Lebron couldn’t do that. So in my opinion Lebron could beat MJ 1 on 1 but with a well coordinated team MJ could beat him with that.
Idk James was much bigger and stronger on the heat, posting Jordan up would be his best opportunity. Jordan at his prime was so damn athletic and in some shoes that people just wear for style now. Who knows how high he could jump with a better shoe and how much quicker his cuts could be.
Absolutely. You can't have a GOAT who literally quit in games or series. Jordan may have lost series but gave it all he had, usually for 45 to 48 minutes a game.
@@ethancbaker2002
If you think LBJ's a better 1-on-1 player and would/could beat MJ at this facet of the game, then you're an idiot.
There's just no other way to say it.
one thing that is almost never talked about is THE FACT that Michael Jordan Only needed 13 Years for his Legacy PLUS he retired two times (4,5 Seasons nba abstinence) and came back twice older (wizard years).
PLUS Defense was another world when Jordan ruled. In comparison, todays defense is more like a walk in the park. watch the 80s playoffs and finals, especially the detroit pistons.
no offense, lebron is the best Small forward of all times! the sf goat.
jordan is the sg goat.
in my opionion, that is.
#justsayin
How many people out there think that LeBron James is better than Larry Bird for greatest small forward. Sorry...off topic.
only 11 full seasons as a Bull...2 of the 13 he barely even played.
@@Kennyindia Wait... So you're saying lebron isn't better than larry? Oh yea your disrespectful.
Predator You were right up until the Lebron is better then Bird bs lol
@@Josh-sk5xd he is
How does Clayton not have more subs? This series has been amazing
Amazing work, love how you beautifully, intricately constructed this video. Blown away
We all know MJ is the actual GOAT
Watch the LeBron video
@@claytonvandeberg5942 Watch the Kareem Video you mean lol.
@@MarvoloRiddle nah the lebron one
I’m so excited to see how he presents LeBron’s goat argument, Jordan’s is very simple, but lebrons definitely is harder to argue
I've been thinking about this. LeBron's will be about consistency. Finals streaks. Finals with three different teams (could be 4 this year). He's kind of the anti-Jordan. Jordan had Pippen the whole way along. Lebron just takes teams to finals.
@@onebigadvocado6376 To be fair though he had Kyrie, but we can argue that Pippen is better than Kyrie. The coaching part and the role players might be an L for Lebron though.
@@taiyou2331 Sorry, I don't think I made my point very well. LeBron had great teammates for some of his Finals runs, certainly all his Rings (Wade is better than Pippen, at least offensively), but they were different teams. Lebron just got on with winning, in a way that superteams don't always do.
PNATBuTTer1117 I’m no Kyrie hater or anything, but Pippen is quite a bit better than Kyrie. I get your point though
@@onebigadvocado6376 Yea, Lebron is really good at joining teams about to make a run. It's like the bully in junior high making his team lopsided just so he can embarrass the other team. :) Also, his 5 for 37 in game ending shots is awesome. Really clutch right there.
Jordan wizards years are disregard due to the fact he came back to save the NBA, Stern promised him he would help him become a owner if he came back, the TV ratings were in the gutter, the ratings have never been what they were since MJ retired
It’s not just the 6>4 argument. It’s how he won those 6.
I don’t think people realize how insane TWO three peats is, let alone one (especially in the modern era 1980-present)
One of my favorite things about Michael Jordan is how much he thanked and credited Scottie Pippen, humility from someone as trash-talking as Mike shows immense strength of character.
Who’s here before my man Clayton takes TH-cam by storm!
legit watching his final shot makes me tear up
26:10 - "Welcome... to a moment in history."
Jordan is the only player where when people talk about him it’s like they’re describing an urban legend, not a real person
This documentary series is great. Favourite on TH-cam. You really taught me a lot about the pre Jordan players. I love Russell and wilt now.
You know Michael is the goat when he tries to make him look like he achieved less in his career but I like the vid
We're going to ignore a guy averaging 26 PPG at 39 years old after a two year layoff, because it's just the right thing to do.
Honestly speaks volumes as to how amazing of a player he was.
Jordan could’ve easily joined the Lakers in 2001 and got more rings.
This dude biased
Great video, but ignoring his wizards seasons is not the right thing to do, its part of his legacy, as a wizard he was the greatest old man to ever play, none come close, all of those games were great games, this old man scored more points in a game that many players will never score in a game, him as a wizard caps his career as the greatest of all time, never ignore those great and extremely underrated seasons as a wizard
The opening instrumental fits this series so perfectly.
I got straight up chills at the end. I’ve only been a basketball fan for a few months but that shot sends shivers through my whole body every time I see it. I wasn’t even there to witness it live nor was any family member of mine but, wow just wow.
You could have just made 7 videos called making the case of whose the 2nd greatest of all time, and I think that would reflect the reality of Michael's greatness. This is coming from a Bad Boys Pistons fan from my high school days. I hated Jordan, until I matured enough to respect his greatness beyond all others.
Yeah that would've been a more honest discussion.
Lebron is a nice guy and that is why he moved from one team to another like bees on flowers.
? He was on 2 teams for his first 14 yrs in the league
LeBron also never was given a team like Jordan. His best teammate pre-Heat was a 1 time all star lmao. Jordan was given a HOF player in Pippen to win his 1st 3, and then they added Rodman (also HOF) to get the next 3.
Incredible, impressive run--not taking that away from Jordan. But acting like LeBron's Cavs teams pre-Kyrie/Kevin Love were comparable to Jordan's Bulls teams after Scottie...man that's just ignorant.
weak teams and makes them champions
Been on three teams...? Also dragged bums for his first 7 years in the NBA. Cavs went from Finals contenders to 19-63 after he left. He wasted too much time there and Cavs org handled him like shit.
@@MeTakingAStandCompletely agree. People dont give Bron nearly enough credit for how much carrying he had to do. Bron's impact on the Cavs was greater than Jordan's with the Bulls. Bulls still made it to Conference Semis after MJ left. Cavs went from Finals Contenders to 19-63 after Bron left.
Yes, tough leadership style, but who else has two 3-peats AND a walk-in closet full of trophies AND lifted the NBA to international fame?
I've watched all of these and you did a great job, after everyone I said, ya that guy is the goat. You did every single one of these great men justice. That had to be crazy hard. What a great series sir congratulations.