@@waiokol9446 not true. I learned about Brigette. Which I've heard countless times, but never with this detail. It seems like a valid trauma story lol. I just kinda "always had this vibe" that overwatch was wack, from how people talked about it. That was enough to keep me away. Firsthand, I remember when Roadhog was the best tank and was completely broken waaay back when. Now I see they basically kept that idea alive, that there would be a broken character or two or class where the gameplay would just revolve around whatever was left to pick once all the broken shit was picked. Roadhog vs Tracer is an utter joke compared to, say, Strange vs Cloak. Another video made this design philosophy clear with another story I had heard but without the details: Genji is always bad. And in that video dude had a nice quote about how "their vision involves Genji the way he is" or whatever. It's not worth down voting for sharing his reasons for quitting Overwatch. That was relevant, informative, well presented, and heartfelt. But for me, the first half of this video felt like it came out of a can. Dudes script was just ultra safe and hive mind-y. The title doesnt even let you know that the "good" part is in there. So at the end of the day I wouldn't call it a bad take to downvote
Dude my team of 2-2-2 got STEAMROLLED by an enemy team with a comp of 6dps. Skill issue ig but HOLY HELL was that match funny🤣 “Oh let me just dive their supports, once their supports are dead we’ll pick off their oppressive dps… 6DUELISTS!!???
@@battle_cats_enjoyer5332 everything else I type from this point on is part of this quote, I will only add the second apostrophe at my death bed as my final word
honestly yeah. like, 1 tank works fine in, say, an mmo because you can just funnel healing into one person who has options to explot ai into only ever attacking them. but in a team hero shooter with live players? either the tank is so oppressively strong that nobody can get past them...or they're so ineffective so why bother with them? the ai is not going to focus reinhardt's shield. the human players will figure out how to get around it and take out the support or the damage or whatever. reinhardt cannot simply "taunt" to make sure that tracer focuses fire on him. that tracer can go "nah i see a squishy out of place, i'm taking them out"
Nobody says that. Everyone knows it was brig taking forever to get nerfed and broken supoorts in general enabling garbage metas like double shield. and the content drought because jeff kaplan wanted to bring back project titan for some dumb reason. @@vivelespatat2670
it's a form of self-balancing, overpowered heroes are mostly insta-banned, devs will notice this and they will be sent back to drawing boards. I think I've seen years ago OW players already advocating bans, but only recently it's introduced in leagues only, conveniently some time after getting their ass handed by Rivals. Hubris? Ego? who knows
@@athikbanget The funny thing is that a lots of games with multiple characters already have bans in the past. Like MOBA's genre in the past. And they are extremely successful. Yet OW never try to replicate those examples untill an actual competitor come out that can threatened them.
@@Natibe_ In fact, League went from 5 to 10 bans when the devs realized that the roster had exploded past what it was originally. It's called common sense. It's the most immediate and effective form of feedback devs can get about who needs balancing. More than video essays, Twitter posts, or Reddit rants. I can't imagine current League without bans.
Im even more impressed all the way through the video. Its like a documentary about overwatc. I love how the footage of pro players take on bridgite feels like a war veteran interview.
I think the biggest flex Marvel Rivals did was the fact that literally no one was hyped for this game until it came out, especially because pretty much every previous Marvel video game didnt really get anywhere close to being good or popular.
The fact they have said no to role que is probably my favourite part. I’ve played games where I’ve won with/lost against so many different team comps. It makes it so much more interesting.
They said that about OW as well for the longest time. Honestly, it will come eventually, when people just get so sick of 6 DPS because no one wants to play tank or healer
5:28 as a note to this, the character giving the team up bonus does NOT need a team up to receive the bonus. This is part of the reason why Hawkeye and Hela feel so oppressive, they're doing 20% more damage than any other backline Duelist at zero cost to the rest of your team.
@@tyler403 I don't know that it is outright stated ig, but has been tested and is also painfully obvious with the anchor characters that get an HP boost since all you have to do is pick them and look at your HP bar
The team up is required to get the bonus for either side but hela and Hawkeye have seasonal buffs to their damage, so the reason they have that damage boost is not because they are team anchors
I'm not typically interested in heros shooters outside an occasional round with friends, but the deliberate playstyle for each character and the sheer atmosphere has me playing for the first time by myself.
@@pyros4333Even back when it was first being pitched, I kept looking at people side ways like “How is removing 1 less player make the game more balanced when it wasn’t designed for that in the first place?”
@@pyros4333As someone who liked 5v5 more than 6v6, I will say it is generally better FOR OVERWATCH, but not in general. The reason why 2 tanks were unhealthy were poor balancing and just straight up bad kits. 2 tanks were dominating in Overwatch and that comes from a tank main, me. In OW2 despite tanks feeling more like a powerhouse it was more balanced around the fact that the team ACTUALLY had a chance of killing supports
@tuananhdang7385 that's the problem it made it a tank game and characters feel like they never have a chance solo vs each other. The differences were too huge. This makes last minute struggles for point useless, you HAD to have a tank to hold. Lost all creativity and gained all rigidity You can enjoy the rigidity but it doesn't make it fun
Marvel Rivals gets 1 concept correctly - if everyone is broken, nobody is broken. Yes Hela and Hawkeye are overtunned, but the amount of broken stuff in the game is infinite. Panther is broken with mobility and brust damage, but Mantis is broken for being able to sleep and 3 shot him. Luna is broken for making her team nearly unkillable and having the highest on demand healing in the game, but Iron Man is broken being able to delete her with gama empowered right click in under a second. Psylock is broken for having stealth and 300 damage burst every few secs, but Winter Soldier is broken for being able to lock her down and instantly pop her up. Almost every single ult in the game can turn the tie of a fight, even Widow's, almost every character has the ability to do insane stuff. And the team ups make up so much of a character's weaknesses. Wanda is weak, but makes Magneto a monster. Iron Fist is weak, but makes Luna Snow undivable. Storm is weak, but in a poke fight when Hela and Hawkeye are banned, she is the highest damage dealer in the game. Cap Murica is weak, but when you see him reflect an Iron Man ult and it's literally "Jarvis clip that" moment. Jeff is the weakest healer in the game, but he can 1 hit KO your entire team.
ah yes the tried and tested dota 2 balancing. though eventually when the meta settles in and draft become too important there some downside to this balancing style
@@rubsterreviews4108 oh yes- he's just sometimes annoying, but that just comes down to your aim. he moves around alot but if you can kill him, hes not that strong
@@rubsterreviews4108 yes but let's be real, having a million and one tools doesn't mean you can fix everything. Like I said, he's annoying, but pretty weak
I appreciate that you mentioned: the balance issues didn’t start with Brigitte, but she certainly was the clearest sign of what was wrong with the balance ideology. I was calling it out leading up to Brigitte: They're buffing every hero to be able to one-trick. That’s not the point. Tracer is agile and can deal a lot of damage, but also dies very easily. Giving her more survivability would completely ruin the balance of the whole game. And this, dear friends, is what we call power creep.
Blizzard "hey, lets use Loot Boxed to make money in our game!" 4 years later government bans loot boxes Blizzard "aawwww shit..... ok uhh, we can remake the game, and make it so you have to buy everything, and our monetization will be on daily mission type deals?" ----few years later Blizzard getting into China market China bans Daily rewards that incentivizes people to log in every day Blizzard "well..... we are out of ideas, just put the game into maintenance mode for now!"
Few years later: "Hey lets use battlepass as a way to monetize game! Let just give players promise of more rewards via events and battlepass!" LITERALLY THE NEXT YEAR: "Yeah so battlepass is too much of work and we are now just selling skins in shop individually. Oh we dont do events anymore too because its too much work too"
@@3takoyakis I played OW1 during a free week, and OW2 when it has just come out, even then I felt the game wouldn't be around for long, partly because I kept having the "I could just play TF2" feeling, and then Blizzard just proceeded to go down hill. so happy Rivals feels different enough from TF2, and seems to at least be smart enough about their monetization that it doesn't feel abusive like how blizzard's did, if it becomes abusive when people have put time into, and are attached to the game is yet to be seen, and while I hope it doesnt happen, if it does its just another case of developers being trash
@@themoabrigade Its hard to know yet they might be suckering us with these good value deals. For example next battle pass is 10$ but it generates 6$ worth of gold so you only need to pay 4 bucks for season 2 and so on. 22 bucks a year is cheap enough that I'm interested. For example fortnite costs 50 a year if you get every pass.
@@Jebu911 true, the game is to new, we just have to hope for the best Sadly I keep seeing real nice skins but I cant get any because my brain keeps going "$10 for a skin? that is way 2 much!" though I also acknowledge I got some $10 League of Legends skins back in the day so it might just be my brain reacting to how new the game is and how uncertain the Hero Shooter market is
Overwatch is the only game where loot boxes worked because you could actually get the currency to buy skins from said loot boxes which were earned simply by playing the game, and the content of loot boxes was purely cosmetics.
Marvel rivals made me remember how nice it is to have two tanks. In OW if your tank goes down and the enemies doesn’t its a loss on that fight. In Rivals, the second tank still might be able to clutch long enough to even the odds
The damage of Overwatch "2" can never be undone. Some characters were changed to accomodate 5v5 and a lot of people have grown accustomed to their new playstyle even though their old one would fit better into 6v6 should they return to it. My old main Bastion will never go back to what made me like him. New supports and heroes in general were given tons of mobility due to the assumption that there would more more empty room on the map in 5v5 than on 6v6, so the old rithm of Overwatch can't be recovered without gutting those characters. The progression system has been annihilated, I'll remind you that Overwatch 2 was supposed to be only the PvE and Overwatch 1 was supposed to remain the exact same. They no longer care about the lore, a lot of the new characters' lore makes no sense, and they have made awfully disingenuous attempts at representation to surf on the last few waves of the social justice movement, which doesn't help with that impression. So I'm not coming back to Overwatch. It's dead. It can't go back to what it was, short of a complete rollback, which obviously won't ever happen. It was amazing while it lasted, which unfortunately wasn't very long.
It really is disappointing that it came to this, ow used to be my most played and favorite competitive game. I can't come back to it anymore too and didn't even bother playing that attempt at winning back players with a shitty 6v6 event
And now they are testing whether bringing back 6v6 is viable, further cementing how OW2 is unneeded. So glad Marvel Rivals is here to at the very least light an inferno under the Blizzard's ass to either improve their games or shut down in shame.
Its ridiculous seeing overwatch who failed at delivering PVE now promising "PVP focus". WHAT IS PVP FOCUS? Their balance is horrible and content wise are the same or less amount before PVP Focus
Every major measure they take is their to excuse their incompetence in balancing from the OG OW team to now. Waiting forever to release updates and balances patches. When can’t they see what made GOATS and Brig broken, they put in role que. I’m saying this even though I think role queue was a good decision in general at the time. Double shield became the next big meta and tank now significantly less players compounding with the fact DPS queue times are already high. When they couldn’t fix 6v6 and the queue time problem, they just decided to say “fuck it this’ll work who cares?” WITH ZERO INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY! JUST OUT OF THE BLUE! I’m not even mad about the fact it’s about the money. Are there some things they did in OW2 to make game slightly better? Yes. Much of the OW2 could’ve been a lot better with a lot of the things that were originally removed especially with features like the support passive and a pinging system. A lot of the new heroes fit really well into the context of 6v6 as well too! It’s just too bad they didn’t actually come up with much else for the game because PvE was what the resources went into. Now have to actually how to expand the universe and the only way I can see them doing it is making Overwatch actually intergalactic and explore new galaxies and threats or maybe finding the money to make a show. Otherwise, it will just kind of…linger there
@@JimGamingTV The obvious answer to the double-shield meta was to reduce the size and availability of barriers, which ironically they did with Orisa's rework. The obvious answer to Brigitte was to put her back in the oven, rework, and re-release her. I don't know why they always picked the impractical band-aid solution... And why it always took them so long. Was it always because they were working on PvE? Guess we'll never know.
I don't really think your thesis is true. I feel Rivals succeeds where Overwatch doesn't by making all the characters strong generalists with moderate strengths and weaknesses. Hulk isn't so weak to range as say, Winston, because his leap has no cooldown. In doing so, his time to kill squishies is a lot higher. A lot of the support roster don't play like pure supports, and have a lot of mobility and damage.
Rivals is unusual in their hero power level Usually in MOBA or hero shooter, their release heroes are suuuuper vanilla with each new heroes slowly power creeped them But in rivals, each release heroes are already strong and unique If you play overwatch classic, youd notice how big the evolution to current overwatch but for rivals, they jump straight to current overwatch power level, skipping the classic phase
I agree I actually think that the strengths and weaknesses of overwatch characters are better defined than rivals characters (with some exceptions e.g. Mauga) and that’s not what people prefer about rivals. Even brig is more balanced nowadays, and conceptually pushing the boundaries of what a support can be is cool and innovative. If she’d been tuned way down sooner after release people wouldn’t have the hate for her that they have now
That’s kinda the key to good balance. If everyone is a bit more general, it frees up team comp variety because you don’t have to worry as much about having glaring weaknesses. You get to specialize in stuff, but the specialty is not what you contribute to the team, not what you need to team to contribute to you. The blurrier the roles are, the less you need a rigid 2/2/2 team comp.
This also makes queueing a lot less miserable. Like yeah, tanks/vanguards are the least played but that's because by default nobody really likes playing as the meatshield standing in front and willingly taking the most damage. The fact that Mantis is the 3rd best DPS in the game speaks volumes. The supports feel more like "DPS that traded some damage for team utility and more survivability."
I dunno the weaknesses are pretty glaring. Because the stronger the opponents the more detrimental the weakness. For example the way wolverine shreds tanks but cannot solo DPS well. Or how bad cloak and daggers ultimate is and it doesn't justify picking her over mantis or Luna. How rockets escape tools help him survive against dive DPS better than any other healer. Spiderman and iron fist can easily take out many of the healers. The weakness feels more intentional than in overwatch because of how strong everyone is. Overwatch typically counters stuff based more upon abilities. I.e. abilities that absorb projectiles like dvas shield eating up pharrah ult or moira's orbs.
And Rivals has just added their very own character with Tank, DPS and support abilities. But they seem to have done it correctly, as Mr Fantastic always feels helpful and yet never feels oppressive.
What do you mean bro. He is the glue holding the toxic team comp of triple healer together in a lot of teams. He just does not die and is constantly taking aggro while giving his supports shield. Triple healer was already broken as shit and he makes it even worse. A tank, Storm, Mr. Fantastic, and three healers completely breaks games and drags them out for a million years when they're on defense because the tank and reed farm ult for their healers so quickly while reed also does solid damage and is insane at peeling.
Same, as an achievement hunter, over 3/4 of overwatch's roster I couldn't play and had no interest in ever playing. But I needed to for the achievement. Rivals, on the other, I've completed all steam achievements and all but 3 in game achievements that are out of my control. I've never had such a lesser desire to play OW
I hope Marvel Rivals never implements role lock. 🙏🙏🙏 I love to pick the Hero I ACTUALLY want to play and switch to different roles if the match demands it. I don't need the game to force me into roles.
@@RyuuToon I agree. The only thing I dislike now is that we can’t choose the same characters on one team. I definitely have favorite characters so it’s hard to choose otherwise.
He gets pretty much everthing wrong about OW (Brig saved OW from stale metas, she has more weaknesses than any other hero, she was barely ever played, her numbers were low, 99% of players have never played GOATS, Brig was NOT a must pick, etc etc), so it makes no sense. 222 happened becase EVERYONE only played dps. Since Marvel rivals dont have that problem, it doesnt seem nesessary. If they learned anythinh from OW, its that "dive hereos" also needs to be countered, and in MR you can counter spiderman, unlike in OW before Brig.
Finally! Someone who understands. Forcing players into specific comps (2-2-2), (2-2-1) takes away the whole point of making your own strategies. In my own experience, the team that wins isn't the one following the 2-2-2 mentality but the team whose members best understand their mains.
It's funny too because (bearing in mind I mostly just chill in quick play) I often am the one swapping to our 1 tank with 3 DPS 2 support and it's still manageable even as the only tank. The flexibility feels great
@sonicrunn3r895 EXACTLY, fun fact: Against divers I've noticed that one tank, three damage dealers is a great counter, as one dps (Punisher) can stay behind and protect the backline.
@almo9060 The 3+ damage yelling at each other until one finally surrenders and pick healer/tank kinda do. Also, how is a RoleQ, which literally does not allow you to pick other heroes other than your assigned role, does NOT force you?
Hero shooters have a LOT they could learn from league of legends balancing. I'm serious. Bans. Consistent patches. Picking an importance level for each tier of your game (casual, top 20%, top 1%, pro) and balancing to keep all characters within a winrate band whose size is determined by that importance. Communicating consistently with the audience, but not taking every complaint at face value to the detriment of the balance and flow of the game. (Hello, mercy.) Being willing to nerf into the ground something which has caused a drop in game quality for many patches until a minor rework can be done. Doing minor reworks to characters that cannot be balanced. And if it must be done, intentionally rotating the meta to ensure no one composition stays on top, but through as smsll changes as they possibly can take. There are also many failings of league. Characters directly outclassing each other, introducing mechanics whose counterplay is infuriating, and not managing toxicity close enough. I could go on for a year about that last one. But they have literally written the book on balancing- you can buy one- and they have more experience with it than anyone else. I hope Rivals takes that to heart as they work to bring it to the next level.
Thats what i see with Rivals and Deadlock Rivals dev knew hero shooter is kinda like MOBA but 3D and waaaaaay simpler learning curve. Deadlock dev knew this too but still putting MOBA shop element in it Rivals literally abandoning the "shooter" part and go wild with "hero"
Bans are a thing in the game already, only in Diamond and above. Nerfing a character into the ground for a future rework isn't really the best idea, especially for the size of the games roster (currently) and it's one of the reasons why late OW1 and OW2 became so disliked. It negatively effected OW, and even after their buff/rework, it didn't help. They've also already gone out and said they want all the characters to feel strong, frustrating or not in some scenarios. Even the low-mid tiers (Jeff, Squirrel Girl, Wanda, etc) are still usable and can even excel in some circumstances. Roadhog is a glowing example on a character than cannot be balanced. He's never felt good to play after his initial nerfing streak from launch, despite being reworked multiple times. Symmetra is another case but not quite as severe. They're already doing minor reworks, not huge yet, but they're already on it. Seasons are doing some sort of rotating meta too. Hela and Hawkeye are getting nerfed because they're taking away their season buff, and other characters next season will receive some sort of buff now. While I agree they should take some inspiration from League, Overwatch is right there and they should take advantage on its shortcomings rather than League's. LoL also has other factors at play when it comes to character balancing. Laning phase, jungle monsters, wards to help with Fog of war and map terrain, and other side objectives/buffs that indirectly help characters. Also not to mention builds. Sure, these are game mechanics and fundamentals, but there is still way more layers to League and Dota compared to OW and Rivals.
@@nasfoda_gamerbrbigproducti5375 To some degree, but its a roster of 150+ characters and to Riots credit they generally do try to get the ones neglected back up running, its just 15+ years of Champs to work through.
13:24 if the dev(s) that suggested that change ever watches this video is gonna be so stunned when they get to this part, that insult really felt personal and i love it
I know this is entirely because I'm a huge fucking nerd who's been a Marvel comics fan for a long time, but it's hilarious to hear, "least known, least interesting, and least liked" about some of the best known, most interesting, and best liked characters in Marvel canon (as far as Marvel comics fans would be concerned). Like, I 100% get that the average person doesn't know half these characters. Hell, the average person has probably forgotten about more characters they saw in an MCU movie than comic book characters they've actually known about ever. But Cloak & Dagger were at one point everywhere. Squirrel Girl was one of the characters that helped launch a reinvigorated interest in comics for a lot of people. Jeff. Admittedly, the heyday of Cloak & Dagger was, like, the 80's, but still. Literally not a single one of these is an unknown. They're all really important, popular characters.
@@WordsHere No one on earth can sit here and tell me Jeff the Shark is an important marvel character. Never ever even heard about him until Rivals but I’ll take him over Ms. Marvel.
@@Kn1ghtborne Oh wow, you're lucky then. Because a year back, there would be a time when my TH-cam shorts were littered with Jeff videos just because I went and watch a few deep dive on Gwenpool, Kate Bishop, and Modok. Even continued on Instagram where I would get actual lore post about Jeff FROM the actual Marvel account. That's how I knew about him before Rivals.
I think it's more that they're not exactly household names, especially those who aren’t in the MCU. But they still put together an impressive roster both of recognisable names to the MCU and also underrated picks from the comics who general audiences probably won't recognise immediately.
@@Kn1ghtborneJeff the Shark took a non-comic fan section internet by storm a few years ago, with people making lots of art of him as basically a dog that looks like a shark. I know people who knew Jeff but didn't know he was a Marvel character lol.
I think Marvel Rivals devs specifically stated that they hate the idea of adding role queues and role locks. Of course those beliefs can change down the line, but we won't have any of this bs in the near future.
the fun thing about iron man is that his foil and often times the guy who takes over leading the avengers for him, captain america...is pretty good against him! his shield blocks a lot of projectiles. so iron man can't harass your team and squishy backline NEARLY as hard because you're blocking all the shots, giving someone like hawkeye time to snipe him out of the sky.
Role lock initially caused a shift to double shield, but the state Ow 1 was left in after they stopped updating it was beautiful and had a ridiculously high skill ceiling. Double bubble, six man, commit dive, standard rush and double shield were all playable at the highest level, and the best comp in the game was made up almost entirely of the highest skill ceiling characters. It may be the best state overwatch has ever been in long term.
For me a big issue with overwatch also happened with wow. They tried to make all the classes/characters "balanced". Which for them meant, everyone gets a cc, everyone gets an escape, no one is unique because "it's not fair that they have it and I don't".
one thing that I think is super interesting about how the teamups are designed is a bunch of them seem to want to not punish players for going too heavy in certain directions. If you were playing pure meta in another hero shooter, having multiple backline diver melee heroes would be a liability, people could just swap to more defensive things, namor with turrets, magneto shields etc. here, you get a really nice added benefit for running both of these heroes together. where they might have bad synergy on a team level, the bonus they provide with the extra ability means black panther and magik have that extra little Oomph to make it not a "bad" pick.
As someone who loved playing Brigitte and Moira in a casual way, I actually think that they were great characters introduced in the wrong game. The rest of the overwatch roster was way too rigid compared to them. Their versatility made them extremely dangerous in the hands of good players or teams that actively supported them. The worst part is that since other healers relied too much on their teammates for basic stuff like staying alive, you were actively encouraged to pick the more versatile ones to be able to pick up the slack if a teammate was underperforming. That's actually really good and an improvement from the original design philosophy, the problem is that not enough characters had that versatility and they were all supports. The other roles couldn't adapt even if they tried to. If all the game had been built like this from the ground up it wouldn't have been an issue.
As a LOL player that specializes in fill / every champ. Let me tell you marvel rivals has enough champs cooking already that a brigette event is almost impossible, because there will always be multiple "broken" things to abuse. The issues will start to show when one gimmick /playstyle starts to power creep (maybe one shot ults or a team of all shield champs) that force everyone to complain when you aren't playing the "buffed" champs
The game is insanely fun to play. I usually just quick play because I feel like competitive play is based more about team vs team, rather than just solo fun. Everything is broken, very entertaining!
The game is super fun, and I like it in a more competitive way. It’s refreshing because it feels like you have a lot of agency in the game. Like, i feel like I can actually control the outcome of my games if I play good, and that feels really nice. The opposite is also true
13:24 I agree with everything in the video except this part they've stated multiple times that the removel of a tank was mainly due to a queue time issue (in the frankly terrible role lock system). They've shown in their pretty extensive 6v6 vrs 5v5 devblog the average queue time per role across the history of the game, which reflects the ratio of players in each roles, which shows that, on average, it was 1:3:2, as in for every 3 dps and 2 support players there was only 1 tank player, there was never enough tank players to have good queue times in 2:2:2, so if you are going to stick to role lock I think it has to be 1:2:2
Even in the newest 2:2:2 test they did this season I already got 12 minute queue time. I'VE NEVER GOTTEN THAT IN 5V5. I think the solution after playing the kingmaker play test and loving it is a min 1 max 2/3 queue with some sort of buff to the solo player. If I think I'd be better in 5v5 or 6v6 I can't tell yet
That ALMOST makes sense, but healer was always the longest queue time and the least fun to play. I could find a match as healer in half the time as tank, implying that twice as many people were playing tank.
honestly makes me not wanna watch the video like wtf do you know about overwatch if you can't even say her name properly 😭 he used a clip of someone saying it properly and still mispronounced it a million times
Hey I loved the video just a tip not in a but hole way but your video format is great just transitions could be a bit better without the sudden cutoff but other than that great video
The damage bonus listed for team up characters are actually always active, you don't have to have the other characters on the field to receive them as they are "season bonuses". It's very stupid wording but it is what it is.
The sole reason goats existed was because of Briggite and the ow team took it as a format issue and locked it into 2-2-2. If we didn't have briggite we wouldn't have had goats
If we didnt have BRAINDEAD devs who release powercreep hero such as Sigma Orisa and Brigitte, we wont have GOATS Like, the new heroes are so fkng boring that all they did is just improving old heroes kit in new package
Whilst launch brig was broken as hell, the reason goats came to be was because widow and somewhat hanzo were very strong. The team named goats went 3-0-3 because they didn't have a good enough widow player to contest them so they went with high sustain/bulkiness to combat it, which ended up working well. Furthermore, once 2-2-2 role lock came in we had the same problem occur which resulted in the dread double shield comp again to combat widow and to a lesser degree ash/hanzo.
@@3takoyakis LOL, if I remember correctly orisa when she first came out she was considered dog water and was rarely played. In fact, after she was released she received several buffs to make her viable for the next 2 years. She only became a problem towards the tale end of overwatch when 2-2-2 was implemented and double shield with sig was meta. Off the top of my head she was meta for pulled pork and double shields. Yes brig was broken at release, no orisa was useless in goats, as for sig we don't know how he would have played because he was released during the introduction of 2-2-2. But i think he wouldn't have been good in goats due to the fact that he gets out brawled by zar, rein, and dva and his kit would have been useless vs that comp. I think the overall problem was the very slow balancing, dive, moth, goats, double shields, etc lasted way too long.
Its insane to me looking back at overwatches history and its slow downfall from where it once was in open queue. Just to look back at Marvel Rivals and see that they have a solution to prevent this from day 1 which is bans. Which honestly should be in every competitive team based games around picking characters, weather it be hero shooters, Mobas or anything else. Really, think about that. If overwatch just put in a ban system after releasing Brig instead of doing role lock, it would have fixed almost every single bad comp we had. Brig being busted? perma ban her until she gets toned down. Double shield meta? all the teams would have to do is just ban 1 or 2 of those shield tanks (like old Orisa) and the comp is way easier to break through. I understand that there would be ways to maybe abuse this, like dive players banning brig then going all in on something like winston+tracer. but it would have been a lot easier to play around. Marvel Rivals literally prevented the top tier characters from plaguing peoples games, because you dont have to play against them if you dont want to. When I got to diamond in season 0, characters like Hela, Hawkeye, and Hulk were almost banned every game, and the experience was so refreshing. It incentivises more strategy in what comps you go with and what strengths and weaknesses you put into your team with your selections. Ban Hela and hawkeye? you just made a game where iron man is very strong because they are some of his strongest counters. Stuff like that lets other, normally non meta picks shine and see their own value. Im so glad the devs learned from Blizzards mistakes and didnt end up going the same route they did. They managed to keep competitive integrity and diversity without sacrificing fun factor and variety of gameplay.
Crucially, Invisible Woman doesn't seem to have much in the way of high damage options, so the usual counter of "get a Duelist to jump her" should work in theory. She does have a vanish (natch) to help her escape, but any time she has to spend invisible is time she's not spending healing or shielding allies. If anything, I'm more curious how Mr. Fantastic is going to affect things. Reed's rocking what looks like it could be one of the tougher skirmisher kits in the game to crack; I'm curious how a full-on Duelist/pseudo-Vanguard is going to affect things...
@@ThunderMan2212 I agree, sue looks cool but fortunately does less damage than Luna or Mantis, she's not a straight up power creep she's just versatile, but Reed puts fear in my gut lmao
@@ThunderMan2212 I agree, sue looks cool but fortunately does less damage than Luna or Mantis, she's not a straight up power creep she's just versatile, but Reed puts fear in my gut lmao
@@mlgesus8362 he definitely should get some sort of damage nerf or maybe reduce damage on extra enemies hit like his attack has reduced velocity after hitting the first guy because his ability to Genshin Neuvillette charge attack is kinda broken and that is not mentioning his tankyness
I think Marvel Rivals is the perfect game for the support/tank combo character to work really well, because it seems they reward assists equally as much as they reward kills. The idea of a healer character with powerful tank-like abilities or a tank character with powerful healing abilities, but no damage would honestly be a really cool character, and honesyly might make 1 healer, 3 dps and 2 tanks a viable team comp.
I kind of disagree about dive. Like yes you can nerf some stats a bit, but movement and angles are inevitably the strongest mechanics in any shooter game. You cannot nerf dive. Once the Rivals player base becomes more skilled this issue will also plague this game. Thats also why Kiriko, Brigitte etc. are so strong, because they are designed to deny dive, but you cannot nerf dive as Ive said, so you end up with heros having heavily boosted kits by either dealing too well with dive or having immortality abilities to deny diving enemies value.
Main thing i like about marvel rivals: Supports are not just healing bots and can actually hold their own. Put any of these healers in overwatch and they would be S tier even Jeff ( C tier for what Ive seem ) would be a menace because of his movement and because he would be the only one from the supports in Overewarch who could wipe both teams and himself with his ult (stopped playing after Rammatra came out, I dont know about the others healers that have been released since) Rocket would put Phara out of a job too.
This missed the mark completely. The newest patch took away support utility and instead focused on buffing raw healing numbers. The best Luna Snow in the world plays exclusively for heals and ignores doing any damage. We're gonna see huge healing creep and comps that take advantage of the insane amount of sustain in the game.
One thing I really like about Marvel Rivals compared to Overwatch is the ultimates. In Overwatch your ultimate was a game changer for most of the characters. But in Rivals they feel less impactful than Overwatch but in a good way. Like it’s more fun to play against
Nah, in mr there are huge ults, like Adam's 5 rez, Bucky's AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, Executioner's ult, LEGENDAAAARYYYY and other tons of op ults. Ow now feels like "We must kill supports, but they are so quick and they have huge survivability, maybe we need to focus tank. *focusing tank* nah, we can't kill Hazard, let's kill supports. *trying to kill brig + juno* nah, that's not working at all, we have the least solution... *ALT F4, uninstall* "
Totally wrong. Most ults are literally cant be outplayed at all besides using another OP support ult.Almost every ult is guaranteed 1-2+ kills(DPS , Tank ults). You need 0.5 planning to use psylock ult, i dont saying that all heroes have that but its much more than ow and its not even close and even dont talked about that every ult is AOE. People clearly dont played overwatch at all. And this is masters player talking ( in both games ).
Dang man. I have never seen a video with so many correct takes before in my life. You are right about Ironman, storm, hitscan, role q, Mercy, pharah, brigitte, ow2 and its incorrect focus on tanks. GOATed video
@@reimei0221 oh wow damn, I just read about the situation It doesn't make sense though, why would they draw attention to the irl Jesse McCree? Wouldn't Blizzard and players benefit from keeping the old name and not changing anything, therefore cementing OW1 McCree as the cowboy hero and leaving the irl McCree to be completely forgotten due to the popularity of the game's McCree? I'll then start calling him McCree just out of spite
I just have to say, Rivals characters arent that good they're alright.... but none of them are polished. that's what Overwatch gets right, the characters. Rivals doesnt compare also, Rivals characters a lot of the time dont have very clear weaknesses. they do all have unique playstyles, but their weaknesses are usually just in roles they dont fill, not anything special. like Hawkeye and Mantis are weak to flankers because they're slow backline characters. that's like saying a plane is weak to anti aircraft guns then you got to Overwatch and you failed your points miserably. correlation between healing and escape options, and you think of Zen in that spectrum? he has next to no healing outside of his ultimate, as consistent as it is. also Moira had more healing than Mercy, and a better escape option. it was just playstyles and hero design my guy and I just want to comment on Brigitte by saying, her flaw was her overpowered nature, not her design. Brig is a very well designed hero, she was just overtuned to hell at launch. you can see how she's a well designed character in current ow2: she has clear strengths and weaknesses, she's both good at surviving/defending teammates, but easily focusable, and that extra tanking and healing she brings to the table comes at the cost of the worst dps in the game by a longshot and no exceptionally powerful utility no one else has (like sleep or immortality field)
@ the majority are satisfied by mediocrity. and that's okay. doesnt make my comment any less true Rivals matches are more fun than Overwatch matches, and the characters are good enough that most people wont notice the difference in quality all that much
@@soloshottie "da mosht are shatishfied by mediocrity!!!" god you aggresively sound like a nerd rn no, the general public doesn't like mediocrity, that's why so many games have been failing. and no, you're not above anybody else lol because you think a game that has had almost a decade to cook has more polish than a game released last month.
@ I said the general public accepts mediocrity. they do lean towards quality, and Rivals does lean toward quality, but it isnt THAT good, nothing all that special, just a solid game. why so many games have been failing is because they're BAD and/or are fundmentally unfun and on the "a decade to cook" please, Overwatch's characters felt really good from day 1. yeah there were some holes, like dva's defense matrix not having a resource meter, but they were overall well polished at launch. and in recent years, new overwatch content has been noticeably less polished than before
Considering Rivals just announced two characters with similar mechanics to Bridgette, I'm rather worried. People are drowning the game in praise and refusing any critique. Ults that result in team wide immortality, extra health on demand, personal shields for anyone you want etc. The rock paper scissors between ults also feels pretty bad. And Wolverine? God throw the whole character into the trash, the kit is horribly designed. It's both useless and one of the most toxic set of abilities I've seen.
No lie bro, this was one of the best yt vids I've seen in a while. Great commentary and bits of comedy, I was genuinely laughing out loud multiple times. keep it up dude that was awesome
On the subject of team comps,i won my first game in diamond going an all healer comp. I just asked my team to go 6 strategist and it worked lmao. Meta comp guys get on it now.
We had a team do that against my friends and I. We swapped to 4 DPS-2 healers, one being widow, and a mantis to buff all the DPS. That worked pretty well. But that's the fun and wacky part of no role lock that we love!
6:40 Funnily enough, I keep thinking of this one with very rare and very weak 6 character Team-Up Concepts, very specifically with the "Series I" Avengers (Strike Force Term) To give them very weak healing access or something to make that 3 Tank and 3 DPS viable as a baseline. The whole concept being to allow the very unconventional team a fighting chance when sustainability is the biggest value a character can provide, a 6 person team up that specifically focuses on making the weakness of the build less crippling, but also not make it strong enough where they can actually outmatch a team that has a single character that handles that weakness.
The 3-3-0 compostion have some heals and mobility, the characters that suffer are the slow ones (like Magneto), they are the characters that can't reach med pads. The composition is bad, but playable.
I’m all for criticizing overwatch, but it is currently a far more competitively viable game. Also, when you make comparisons, you shouldn’t just lie. It did not take them a year to start nerfing brig, it took 2 months. And they kept on nerfing her. She got 14 nerf patches straight throughout Overwatch 1’s lifespan, and her first patch in Overwatch 2 (the beta) was also a nerf. They also nerfed her 8 separate times before introducing role-lock. Yes, brig was a massive outlier and mistake for Overwatch, but the devs did try to fix it. I have a feeling eventually Marvel Rivals will release some AOE healing supports, and we will probably go straight back into a goats meta unless they nerf said supports to be unplayable without goats. That would have been the only solution for brig. Make her so bad she is completely unplayable.
correct, theres ton of misinformation in the ow section to begin with lol marvel already has goats meta, 3 supports are very viable and supports like luna and mantis are laughably overtuned. they are literally already at brig level.
Even when Brig was nerfed into the ground, GOATS didn't die, it just started dropping Brig more often. In 2019 our team would routinely drop our Brig for Sombara or Ana or Moira... maybe Bap, but I might be just misremembering based on us running Bap in bunker comps. Lucio was the one character in GOATS who never, ever swapped to a different character - any of the tanks might swap to Ball and/or Winston, Zen and Brig might swap to Ana/Moira/Bap/Sombra, Dva might swap to Mei, but Lucio? The AoE heals and speed boost were a necessity for the comp to function.
Marvel do some lifting, but you must also convince hero shooter fanbase to leave overwatch and play rivals You forgot how big overwatch back in the day and its still the household name for hero shooter no matter how many people claim how dead the game is Heck even vocabulary people used in rivals are STRAIGHT taken from overwatch
Not really. Game is fun. Most complaints are just skill issues. Too much healing? Just focus the healers instead of the tanks. Switch characters instead of one tricking and crying
Maybe that's the reason 80% of superhero games fail. I mean, Kill the Justice League, Midnight Suns, Gotham Knights, Avengers were ALL HUGE SUCCESS right?
Something that will always dampen my enjoyment of marvel rivals is how strong the healing is. Tf2 will always remain my favorite hero shooter for the reason that a medic isn't going to heal off the damage of taking a rocket to the face before you can even shoot again. Even without the dps passive supports in overwatch can't always save their teammate from a flanker just by healing. In marvel rivals there are some characters that just can't kill through healing.
This also goes into making no playable characters. Like imagine comic book character who has telekinesis, kinda boring but if they are only able to control metal then you have a really cool power that forces creativity.
Your credibility as an Overwatch player is questionable when you don’t know how to pronounce Brigitte. It’s a hard g sound like Gary, it’s not “Bridget” with a j like Jared.
I think the issues with Overwatch goes a lot deeper than the team comp stuff and the balance around competitive, (when honestly no game should be balanced around high end competitive play, because the majority of the playerbase is going to be more casual and doesn't touch that). There's so much to talk about regarding bad changes to the general feel of the game as time went on, and particularly when they slapped the "2" on the title and reworked a lot of the characters to just be worse. One of your main complaints regarding Bridgette was that she was basically a "jack of all trades" character, but that can honestly be said about most of the characters in Rivals. With Peni I tend to get the most kills and damage dealt out of anyone in my team, and she's a tank. I've seen people playing healers wrack up more kills than half the DPS on the team while still keeping everyone alive. The difference is that the game is balanced around the idea that roles are more fluid, so you're not as locked in to specific roles and can play around more with your favorites. Overwatch went the other route, where they focused too much on the roles themselves and as time went on that just got worse and worse. Particularly after the reworks that came with "2", because they changed some characters completely to focus more on their "role" while removing the identity of those characters. I mean, they switched Doomfist who was an assassin style DPS who's whole thing was one shotting weak enemies with a single punch at the risk of him dying easily, into a tank who can't one shot at all even against lower base health characters.
Blizzard did respond with nerfs to stats, but it didn’t break dive at all. Dive didn’t fully die after brig because she enabled dive just as hard as she neglected it. Dive truly died when goats was realized Dive characters were constantly getting nerfed in OW2 and would not stay down, because fundamentally they could not make dive bad without absolutely trashing the entire unit of dive characters. It was either they all get nerfed or something new that countered would do, either way dive as a whole was very all or nothing
But Dive has never felt as necessary in OW2 as it did in OW1, nor as necessary as GOATS or Bunker during that meta. Maybe that's changed in the last year, but fights in OW2 became less dependent on teams sticking together in one group, with each player having more agency.
I really don't understand why people are liking marvel rivals so much, imo it's a shittier overwatch, I've been playing it recently but it's not that good, way more clunky, doesn't run as well as overwatch, the game isn't as clear, most characters do the same stuff, some designs are shit like Cap America, Spiderman, Iron man, the third person camera makes me sick after 3 games, really it's not for me. I don't play overwatch anymore too but it's miles better imo.
Video about Marvel Rivals:
Looks inside: Video about overwatch and its downfall
"im a history nerd"
look inside: only cares about rome and its downfall
honestly that half seemed much more thought out
This is just another rant about game video that created to farm views. Nothing new
@@waiokol9446 not true. I learned about Brigette. Which I've heard countless times, but never with this detail. It seems like a valid trauma story lol. I just kinda "always had this vibe" that overwatch was wack, from how people talked about it. That was enough to keep me away. Firsthand, I remember when Roadhog was the best tank and was completely broken waaay back when. Now I see they basically kept that idea alive, that there would be a broken character or two or class where the gameplay would just revolve around whatever was left to pick once all the broken shit was picked. Roadhog vs Tracer is an utter joke compared to, say, Strange vs Cloak. Another video made this design philosophy clear with another story I had heard but without the details: Genji is always bad. And in that video dude had a nice quote about how "their vision involves Genji the way he is" or whatever.
It's not worth down voting for sharing his reasons for quitting Overwatch. That was relevant, informative, well presented, and heartfelt. But for me, the first half of this video felt like it came out of a can. Dudes script was just ultra safe and hive mind-y. The title doesnt even let you know that the "good" part is in there. So at the end of the day I wouldn't call it a bad take to downvote
@@keeparguing611 lol
overwatch has the nostalgia of seeing your abandoned and broken down home years after you left your hometown
So true
That’s how I feel whenever I look at R6S
Ow players experiencing exactly what us tf2 players experienced in 2016 feels poetic
@@Elnidaxdang that’s true…..
facts and im relatively new to ow too
Pros of no role queue: variety, strategy, freedom
Cons: 5 dps instalocks
In low ranks It’s doesn’t matter if you single-handedly dominate once hit gold it’s a little
more difficult now. If that happens I just play mantis
At least dps instalocks are a side effect that competent players can usually avoid. Role queue is something that no player can overcome
Dude my team of 2-2-2 got STEAMROLLED by an enemy team with a comp of 6dps. Skill issue ig but HOLY HELL was that match funny🤣
“Oh let me just dive their supports, once their supports are dead we’ll pick off their oppressive dps…
6DUELISTS!!???
@@pixelmace1423 ahhh, the habit of forgetting the second apostrophe
@@battle_cats_enjoyer5332 everything else I type from this point on is part of this quote, I will only add the second apostrophe at my death bed as my final word
I think this is the best explanation why tank doesn’t work in 5v5
honestly yeah.
like, 1 tank works fine in, say, an mmo because you can just funnel healing into one person who has options to explot ai into only ever attacking them.
but in a team hero shooter with live players? either the tank is so oppressively strong that nobody can get past them...or they're so ineffective so why bother with them? the ai is not going to focus reinhardt's shield. the human players will figure out how to get around it and take out the support or the damage or whatever. reinhardt cannot simply "taunt" to make sure that tracer focuses fire on him. that tracer can go "nah i see a squishy out of place, i'm taking them out"
Gotta love the OW2 tourists saying it's 6v6 that originally killed the game and not the SEVERAL YEARS OF NEGLECT it received.
@@vivelespatat2670 nobody is saying 6v6 killed the game
Nobody says that. Everyone knows it was brig taking forever to get nerfed and broken supoorts in general enabling garbage metas like double shield. and the content drought because jeff kaplan wanted to bring back project titan for some dumb reason. @@vivelespatat2670
@@vivelespatat2670 And the dry spell towards the end of Overwatch 1 wasn't what killed it either. Overwatch 2 is what killed Overwatch.
To think the solution was right under our noses all along. Bans. Love Rivals
it's a form of self-balancing, overpowered heroes are mostly insta-banned, devs will notice this and they will be sent back to drawing boards. I think I've seen years ago OW players already advocating bans, but only recently it's introduced in leagues only, conveniently some time after getting their ass handed by Rivals. Hubris? Ego? who knows
With more heroes coming, maybe more bans in-between the battle?
As someone who has played league a long time, it's not the end-all be-all, but it is absolutely necessary.
@@athikbanget The funny thing is that a lots of games with multiple characters already have bans in the past. Like MOBA's genre in the past. And they are extremely successful. Yet OW never try to replicate those examples untill an actual competitor come out that can threatened them.
@@Natibe_ In fact, League went from 5 to 10 bans when the devs realized that the roster had exploded past what it was originally. It's called common sense. It's the most immediate and effective form of feedback devs can get about who needs balancing. More than video essays, Twitter posts, or Reddit rants. I can't imagine current League without bans.
Im even more impressed all the way through the video. Its like a documentary about overwatc. I love how the footage of pro players take on bridgite feels like a war veteran interview.
0:15 sweatiest 2fort match:
Nah man once somebody goes Medic pocketing a Heavy shit gets *real*
Tf2 will never die
I think the biggest flex Marvel Rivals did was the fact that literally no one was hyped for this game until it came out, especially because pretty much every previous Marvel video game didnt really get anywhere close to being good or popular.
This is true except for the spiderman games were critically acclaimed and heavily hyped and still hold up well to this day
Funny thing is, they already made a patch where they nerfed Hela and Hawkeye and buffed Cap, along side other changes.
Minimally but yea, personally didnt feel they needed nerfs
@@jaradrichardsC137bait used to be believable
@@Bilndmann ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nah just my opinion
@@jaradrichardsC137 Then that's just a bad opinion. No offence.
@@jaradrichardsC137 Hela and Hawkeye are also losing their season bonus, so it's a 20% damage reduction, not just 5%.
The fact they have said no to role que is probably my favourite part. I’ve played games where I’ve won with/lost against so many different team comps. It makes it so much more interesting.
Until you started complaining that you had a 10 min dps queue, everyone seems to forget that.
@@iRamUrMotherhe said hes glad its not coming
@@insidious8054 sorry i misread what he wrote.
@ all good no worries
They said that about OW as well for the longest time. Honestly, it will come eventually, when people just get so sick of 6 DPS because no one wants to play tank or healer
4:06 Cough… dafuq is going on here?
We've all done it.
Jarvis, activate freak mode; stroke it 140bpm
THANK YOU
AYO WHAT ARE THEY DOIN?!
5:28 as a note to this, the character giving the team up bonus does NOT need a team up to receive the bonus. This is part of the reason why Hawkeye and Hela feel so oppressive, they're doing 20% more damage than any other backline Duelist at zero cost to the rest of your team.
where is that stated
@@tyler403 I don't know that it is outright stated ig, but has been tested and is also painfully obvious with the anchor characters that get an HP boost since all you have to do is pick them and look at your HP bar
@Baileyface ohhh that makes sense
The team up is required to get the bonus for either side but hela and Hawkeye have seasonal buffs to their damage, so the reason they have that damage boost is not because they are team anchors
Just for Season 0 tho. It’s a seasonal buff. So something will probably change by season 1
I'm not typically interested in heros shooters outside an occasional round with friends, but the deliberate playstyle for each character and the sheer atmosphere has me playing for the first time by myself.
literally same, i used to be so intimidated by pvp games in general but rivals is so incredibly fun to play, even solo :)
"A BRIEF history of overwatch"
Chapter takes up more than half the video
I never understood why changing from 6v6 to 5v5 kills the game. Thanks for that explanation
Glad more people understand why 5v5 is just completely wrong
@@pyros4333Even back when it was first being pitched, I kept looking at people side ways like “How is removing 1 less player make the game more balanced when it wasn’t designed for that in the first place?”
it's like being a jedi without the force
@@pyros4333As someone who liked 5v5 more than 6v6, I will say it is generally better FOR OVERWATCH, but not in general. The reason why 2 tanks were unhealthy were poor balancing and just straight up bad kits. 2 tanks were dominating in Overwatch and that comes from a tank main, me. In OW2 despite tanks feeling more like a powerhouse it was more balanced around the fact that the team ACTUALLY had a chance of killing supports
@tuananhdang7385 that's the problem it made it a tank game and characters feel like they never have a chance solo vs each other. The differences were too huge.
This makes last minute struggles for point useless, you HAD to have a tank to hold.
Lost all creativity and gained all rigidity
You can enjoy the rigidity but it doesn't make it fun
I just love how each melee character feels different, which is saying a lot considering HOW MANY melee character there are
Marvel Rivals gets 1 concept correctly - if everyone is broken, nobody is broken. Yes Hela and Hawkeye are overtunned, but the amount of broken stuff in the game is infinite. Panther is broken with mobility and brust damage, but Mantis is broken for being able to sleep and 3 shot him. Luna is broken for making her team nearly unkillable and having the highest on demand healing in the game, but Iron Man is broken being able to delete her with gama empowered right click in under a second. Psylock is broken for having stealth and 300 damage burst every few secs, but Winter Soldier is broken for being able to lock her down and instantly pop her up. Almost every single ult in the game can turn the tie of a fight, even Widow's, almost every character has the ability to do insane stuff. And the team ups make up so much of a character's weaknesses. Wanda is weak, but makes Magneto a monster. Iron Fist is weak, but makes Luna Snow undivable. Storm is weak, but in a poke fight when Hela and Hawkeye are banned, she is the highest damage dealer in the game. Cap Murica is weak, but when you see him reflect an Iron Man ult and it's literally "Jarvis clip that" moment. Jeff is the weakest healer in the game, but he can 1 hit KO your entire team.
ah yes the tried and tested dota 2 balancing. though eventually when the meta settles in and draft become too important there some downside to this balancing style
Iron fist is weak?
@@rubsterreviews4108 oh yes- he's just sometimes annoying, but that just comes down to your aim. he moves around alot but if you can kill him, hes not that strong
@@jadegreenleaf781 I agree she's squishy but his kit is VERY overloaded
@@rubsterreviews4108 yes but let's be real, having a million and one tools doesn't mean you can fix everything. Like I said, he's annoying, but pretty weak
I appreciate that you mentioned: the balance issues didn’t start with Brigitte, but she certainly was the clearest sign of what was wrong with the balance ideology.
I was calling it out leading up to Brigitte: They're buffing every hero to be able to one-trick. That’s not the point. Tracer is agile and can deal a lot of damage, but also dies very easily. Giving her more survivability would completely ruin the balance of the whole game.
And this, dear friends, is what we call power creep.
Blizzard "hey, lets use Loot Boxed to make money in our game!"
4 years later government bans loot boxes
Blizzard "aawwww shit..... ok uhh, we can remake the game, and make it so you have to buy everything, and our monetization will be on daily mission type deals?"
----few years later Blizzard getting into China market
China bans Daily rewards that incentivizes people to log in every day
Blizzard "well..... we are out of ideas, just put the game into maintenance mode for now!"
Few years later: "Hey lets use battlepass as a way to monetize game! Let just give players promise of more rewards via events and battlepass!"
LITERALLY THE NEXT YEAR: "Yeah so battlepass is too much of work and we are now just selling skins in shop individually. Oh we dont do events anymore too because its too much work too"
@@3takoyakis I played OW1 during a free week, and OW2 when it has just come out, even then I felt the game wouldn't be around for long, partly because I kept having the "I could just play TF2" feeling, and then Blizzard just proceeded to go down hill.
so happy Rivals feels different enough from TF2, and seems to at least be smart enough about their monetization that it doesn't feel abusive like how blizzard's did, if it becomes abusive when people have put time into, and are attached to the game is yet to be seen, and while I hope it doesnt happen, if it does its just another case of developers being trash
@@themoabrigade Its hard to know yet they might be suckering us with these good value deals. For example next battle pass is 10$ but it generates 6$ worth of gold so you only need to pay 4 bucks for season 2 and so on. 22 bucks a year is cheap enough that I'm interested. For example fortnite costs 50 a year if you get every pass.
@@Jebu911 true, the game is to new, we just have to hope for the best
Sadly I keep seeing real nice skins but I cant get any because my brain keeps going "$10 for a skin? that is way 2 much!"
though I also acknowledge I got some $10 League of Legends skins back in the day so it might just be my brain reacting to how new the game is and how uncertain the Hero Shooter market is
Overwatch is the only game where loot boxes worked because you could actually get the currency to buy skins from said loot boxes which were earned simply by playing the game, and the content of loot boxes was purely cosmetics.
Marvel rivals made me remember how nice it is to have two tanks.
In OW if your tank goes down and the enemies doesn’t its a loss on that fight.
In Rivals, the second tank still might be able to clutch long enough to even the odds
2:24 magik is NOT an uninteresting character
i think he just means shes less well known (since shes not in the mcu)
Im sure she is but never heard of her.
The damage of Overwatch "2" can never be undone. Some characters were changed to accomodate 5v5 and a lot of people have grown accustomed to their new playstyle even though their old one would fit better into 6v6 should they return to it. My old main Bastion will never go back to what made me like him. New supports and heroes in general were given tons of mobility due to the assumption that there would more more empty room on the map in 5v5 than on 6v6, so the old rithm of Overwatch can't be recovered without gutting those characters. The progression system has been annihilated, I'll remind you that Overwatch 2 was supposed to be only the PvE and Overwatch 1 was supposed to remain the exact same. They no longer care about the lore, a lot of the new characters' lore makes no sense, and they have made awfully disingenuous attempts at representation to surf on the last few waves of the social justice movement, which doesn't help with that impression.
So I'm not coming back to Overwatch. It's dead. It can't go back to what it was, short of a complete rollback, which obviously won't ever happen. It was amazing while it lasted, which unfortunately wasn't very long.
It really is disappointing that it came to this, ow used to be my most played and favorite competitive game. I can't come back to it anymore too and didn't even bother playing that attempt at winning back players with a shitty 6v6 event
And now they are testing whether bringing back 6v6 is viable, further cementing how OW2 is unneeded. So glad Marvel Rivals is here to at the very least light an inferno under the Blizzard's ass to either improve their games or shut down in shame.
Its ridiculous seeing overwatch who failed at delivering PVE now promising "PVP focus".
WHAT IS PVP FOCUS? Their balance is horrible and content wise are the same or less amount before PVP Focus
Every major measure they take is their to excuse their incompetence in balancing from the OG OW team to now. Waiting forever to release updates and balances patches. When can’t they see what made GOATS and Brig broken, they put in role que. I’m saying this even though I think role queue was a good decision in general at the time. Double shield became the next big meta and tank now significantly less players compounding with the fact DPS queue times are already high. When they couldn’t fix 6v6 and the queue time problem, they just decided to say “fuck it this’ll work who cares?”
WITH ZERO INPUT FROM THE COMMUNITY! JUST OUT OF THE BLUE!
I’m not even mad about the fact it’s about the money. Are there some things they did in OW2 to make game slightly better? Yes. Much of the OW2 could’ve been a lot better with a lot of the things that were originally removed especially with features like the support passive and a pinging system. A lot of the new heroes fit really well into the context of 6v6 as well too!
It’s just too bad they didn’t actually come up with much else for the game because PvE was what the resources went into. Now have to actually how to expand the universe and the only way I can see them doing it is making Overwatch actually intergalactic and explore new galaxies and threats or maybe finding the money to make a show. Otherwise, it will just kind of…linger there
@@JimGamingTV The obvious answer to the double-shield meta was to reduce the size and availability of barriers, which ironically they did with Orisa's rework. The obvious answer to Brigitte was to put her back in the oven, rework, and re-release her. I don't know why they always picked the impractical band-aid solution... And why it always took them so long. Was it always because they were working on PvE? Guess we'll never know.
I don't really think your thesis is true. I feel Rivals succeeds where Overwatch doesn't by making all the characters strong generalists with moderate strengths and weaknesses. Hulk isn't so weak to range as say, Winston, because his leap has no cooldown. In doing so, his time to kill squishies is a lot higher. A lot of the support roster don't play like pure supports, and have a lot of mobility and damage.
Rivals is unusual in their hero power level
Usually in MOBA or hero shooter, their release heroes are suuuuper vanilla with each new heroes slowly power creeped them
But in rivals, each release heroes are already strong and unique
If you play overwatch classic, youd notice how big the evolution to current overwatch but for rivals, they jump straight to current overwatch power level, skipping the classic phase
I agree I actually think that the strengths and weaknesses of overwatch characters are better defined than rivals characters (with some exceptions e.g. Mauga) and that’s not what people prefer about rivals.
Even brig is more balanced nowadays, and conceptually pushing the boundaries of what a support can be is cool and innovative. If she’d been tuned way down sooner after release people wouldn’t have the hate for her that they have now
That’s kinda the key to good balance. If everyone is a bit more general, it frees up team comp variety because you don’t have to worry as much about having glaring weaknesses. You get to specialize in stuff, but the specialty is not what you contribute to the team, not what you need to team to contribute to you. The blurrier the roles are, the less you need a rigid 2/2/2 team comp.
This also makes queueing a lot less miserable. Like yeah, tanks/vanguards are the least played but that's because by default nobody really likes playing as the meatshield standing in front and willingly taking the most damage.
The fact that Mantis is the 3rd best DPS in the game speaks volumes. The supports feel more like "DPS that traded some damage for team utility and more survivability."
I dunno the weaknesses are pretty glaring. Because the stronger the opponents the more detrimental the weakness. For example the way wolverine shreds tanks but cannot solo DPS well. Or how bad cloak and daggers ultimate is and it doesn't justify picking her over mantis or Luna.
How rockets escape tools help him survive against dive DPS better than any other healer.
Spiderman and iron fist can easily take out many of the healers. The weakness feels more intentional than in overwatch because of how strong everyone is. Overwatch typically counters stuff based more upon abilities. I.e. abilities that absorb projectiles like dvas shield eating up pharrah ult or moira's orbs.
And Rivals has just added their very own character with Tank, DPS and support abilities. But they seem to have done it correctly, as Mr Fantastic always feels helpful and yet never feels oppressive.
What do you mean bro. He is the glue holding the toxic team comp of triple healer together in a lot of teams. He just does not die and is constantly taking aggro while giving his supports shield. Triple healer was already broken as shit and he makes it even worse. A tank, Storm, Mr. Fantastic, and three healers completely breaks games and drags them out for a million years when they're on defense because the tank and reed farm ult for their healers so quickly while reed also does solid damage and is insane at peeling.
@ In my experience, something like a venom or a hulk being triple healed is still harder to focus down than Reed being tripled.
Just have 3 dps(3 flank or maybe one damage dealer), 1 tank and 2 healers. If the dps are competent you'll always wjn
i was a consistent ow2 player for a while until i played one game of marvel rivals with friends and we never looked back. good video
Same, as an achievement hunter, over 3/4 of overwatch's roster I couldn't play and had no interest in ever playing. But I needed to for the achievement.
Rivals, on the other, I've completed all steam achievements and all but 3 in game achievements that are out of my control.
I've never had such a lesser desire to play OW
I hope Marvel Rivals never implements role lock. 🙏🙏🙏
I love to pick the Hero I ACTUALLY want to play and switch to different roles if the match demands it. I don't need the game to force me into roles.
The devs have specifically said they're not gonna do it 🎉
@@Nuclearburrit0 Niiiiicee
@@RyuuToon I agree. The only thing I dislike now is that we can’t choose the same characters on one team. I definitely have favorite characters so it’s hard to choose otherwise.
He gets pretty much everthing wrong about OW (Brig saved OW from stale metas, she has more weaknesses than any other hero, she was barely ever played, her numbers were low, 99% of players have never played GOATS, Brig was NOT a must pick, etc etc), so it makes no sense. 222 happened becase EVERYONE only played dps. Since Marvel rivals dont have that problem, it doesnt seem nesessary.
If they learned anythinh from OW, its that "dive hereos" also needs to be countered, and in MR you can counter spiderman, unlike in OW before Brig.
i already feel like we have role lock because of idiots with 2 - 12 stats insta locking dps and i have to be forced into strategist
Finally! Someone who understands. Forcing players into specific comps (2-2-2), (2-2-1) takes away the whole point of making your own strategies.
In my own experience, the team that wins isn't the one following the 2-2-2 mentality but the team whose members best understand their mains.
It's funny too because (bearing in mind I mostly just chill in quick play) I often am the one swapping to our 1 tank with 3 DPS 2 support and it's still manageable even as the only tank. The flexibility feels great
@sonicrunn3r895 EXACTLY, fun fact: Against divers I've noticed that one tank, three damage dealers is a great counter, as one dps (Punisher) can stay behind and protect the backline.
@sonicrunn3r895 that doesn't work in higher ranks but in quick play it's ok in either Marvels or OW.
btw nobody is forcing anything but you have a choice to stick to 2-2-1 or choose your own setup.
@almo9060 The 3+ damage yelling at each other until one finally surrenders and pick healer/tank kinda do.
Also, how is a RoleQ, which literally does not allow you to pick other heroes other than your assigned role, does NOT force you?
Hero shooters have a LOT they could learn from league of legends balancing. I'm serious.
Bans.
Consistent patches.
Picking an importance level for each tier of your game (casual, top 20%, top 1%, pro) and balancing to keep all characters within a winrate band whose size is determined by that importance.
Communicating consistently with the audience, but not taking every complaint at face value to the detriment of the balance and flow of the game. (Hello, mercy.)
Being willing to nerf into the ground something which has caused a drop in game quality for many patches until a minor rework can be done.
Doing minor reworks to characters that cannot be balanced.
And if it must be done, intentionally rotating the meta to ensure no one composition stays on top, but through as smsll changes as they possibly can take.
There are also many failings of league. Characters directly outclassing each other, introducing mechanics whose counterplay is infuriating, and not managing toxicity close enough. I could go on for a year about that last one.
But they have literally written the book on balancing- you can buy one- and they have more experience with it than anyone else. I hope Rivals takes that to heart as they work to bring it to the next level.
Thats what i see with Rivals and Deadlock
Rivals dev knew hero shooter is kinda like MOBA but 3D and waaaaaay simpler learning curve. Deadlock dev knew this too but still putting MOBA shop element in it
Rivals literally abandoning the "shooter" part and go wild with "hero"
LoL is the most successful game for a reason, but they also have an insane budget to work with.
Bans are a thing in the game already, only in Diamond and above.
Nerfing a character into the ground for a future rework isn't really the best idea, especially for the size of the games roster (currently) and it's one of the reasons why late OW1 and OW2 became so disliked. It negatively effected OW, and even after their buff/rework, it didn't help. They've also already gone out and said they want all the characters to feel strong, frustrating or not in some scenarios. Even the low-mid tiers (Jeff, Squirrel Girl, Wanda, etc) are still usable and can even excel in some circumstances.
Roadhog is a glowing example on a character than cannot be balanced. He's never felt good to play after his initial nerfing streak from launch, despite being reworked multiple times. Symmetra is another case but not quite as severe.
They're already doing minor reworks, not huge yet, but they're already on it.
Seasons are doing some sort of rotating meta too. Hela and Hawkeye are getting nerfed because they're taking away their season buff, and other characters next season will receive some sort of buff now.
While I agree they should take some inspiration from League, Overwatch is right there and they should take advantage on its shortcomings rather than League's. LoL also has other factors at play when it comes to character balancing. Laning phase, jungle monsters, wards to help with Fog of war and map terrain, and other side objectives/buffs that indirectly help characters. Also not to mention builds. Sure, these are game mechanics and fundamentals, but there is still way more layers to League and Dota compared to OW and Rivals.
Isn't LOL that game where half of the characters are unusable because of the power creep?
@@nasfoda_gamerbrbigproducti5375 To some degree, but its a roster of 150+ characters and to Riots credit they generally do try to get the ones neglected back up running, its just 15+ years of Champs to work through.
13:24 if the dev(s) that suggested that change ever watches this video is gonna be so stunned when they get to this part, that insult really felt personal and i love it
Really good video bro, top notch quality
I thought you were a big youtuber, subscribed
I know this is entirely because I'm a huge fucking nerd who's been a Marvel comics fan for a long time, but it's hilarious to hear, "least known, least interesting, and least liked" about some of the best known, most interesting, and best liked characters in Marvel canon (as far as Marvel comics fans would be concerned). Like, I 100% get that the average person doesn't know half these characters. Hell, the average person has probably forgotten about more characters they saw in an MCU movie than comic book characters they've actually known about ever. But Cloak & Dagger were at one point everywhere. Squirrel Girl was one of the characters that helped launch a reinvigorated interest in comics for a lot of people. Jeff. Admittedly, the heyday of Cloak & Dagger was, like, the 80's, but still. Literally not a single one of these is an unknown. They're all really important, popular characters.
@@WordsHere No one on earth can sit here and tell me Jeff the Shark is an important marvel character. Never ever even heard about him until Rivals but I’ll take him over Ms. Marvel.
@@Kn1ghtborne Oh wow, you're lucky then. Because a year back, there would be a time when my TH-cam shorts were littered with Jeff videos just because I went and watch a few deep dive on Gwenpool, Kate Bishop, and Modok. Even continued on Instagram where I would get actual lore post about Jeff FROM the actual Marvel account. That's how I knew about him before Rivals.
I think it's more that they're not exactly household names, especially those who aren’t in the MCU. But they still put together an impressive roster both of recognisable names to the MCU and also underrated picks from the comics who general audiences probably won't recognise immediately.
@@Kn1ghtborneJeff the Shark took a non-comic fan section internet by storm a few years ago, with people making lots of art of him as basically a dog that looks like a shark. I know people who knew Jeff but didn't know he was a Marvel character lol.
@sonicrunn3r895 Saying they aren't interesting or liked is rude and douchey though.
I think Marvel Rivals devs specifically stated that they hate the idea of adding role queues and role locks. Of course those beliefs can change down the line, but we won't have any of this bs in the near future.
Marvel Rivals is so addictive and FUN , so much fun dude.
destroy build destroy mention is insane, nearly forgot about that show
Honestly impressive video of a creator this size to create in this quality its first time that i see that
the fun thing about iron man is that his foil and often times the guy who takes over leading the avengers for him, captain america...is pretty good against him! his shield blocks a lot of projectiles. so iron man can't harass your team and squishy backline NEARLY as hard because you're blocking all the shots, giving someone like hawkeye time to snipe him out of the sky.
0:46 rip moon Knight
Role lock initially caused a shift to double shield, but the state Ow 1 was left in after they stopped updating it was beautiful and had a ridiculously high skill ceiling. Double bubble, six man, commit dive, standard rush and double shield were all playable at the highest level, and the best comp in the game was made up almost entirely of the highest skill ceiling characters. It may be the best state overwatch has ever been in long term.
"Sometimes I just wanna see a game go back to the basics and do it right"
Astro Bot: I know right?
For me a big issue with overwatch also happened with wow. They tried to make all the classes/characters "balanced". Which for them meant, everyone gets a cc, everyone gets an escape, no one is unique because "it's not fair that they have it and I don't".
First time seeing your channel, yet I became a die hard fan of yours. Keep up the good work, you deserve the best.
indeed, 90% of the playerbase don't know there are side lanes at all
one thing that I think is super interesting about how the teamups are designed is a bunch of them seem to want to not punish players for going too heavy in certain directions. If you were playing pure meta in another hero shooter, having multiple backline diver melee heroes would be a liability, people could just swap to more defensive things, namor with turrets, magneto shields etc. here, you get a really nice added benefit for running both of these heroes together. where they might have bad synergy on a team level, the bonus they provide with the extra ability means black panther and magik have that extra little Oomph to make it not a "bad" pick.
As someone who loved playing Brigitte and Moira in a casual way, I actually think that they were great characters introduced in the wrong game.
The rest of the overwatch roster was way too rigid compared to them. Their versatility made them extremely dangerous in the hands of good players or teams that actively supported them.
The worst part is that since other healers relied too much on their teammates for basic stuff like staying alive, you were actively encouraged to pick the more versatile ones to be able to pick up the slack if a teammate was underperforming.
That's actually really good and an improvement from the original design philosophy, the problem is that not enough characters had that versatility and they were all supports. The other roles couldn't adapt even if they tried to.
If all the game had been built like this from the ground up it wouldn't have been an issue.
As a LOL player that specializes in fill / every champ. Let me tell you marvel rivals has enough champs cooking already that a brigette event is almost impossible, because there will always be multiple "broken" things to abuse. The issues will start to show when one gimmick /playstyle starts to power creep (maybe one shot ults or a team of all shield champs) that force everyone to complain when you aren't playing the "buffed" champs
"before Bridgette" that single line brought me so many happy memories, ty
The game is insanely fun to play. I usually just quick play because I feel like competitive play is based more about team vs team, rather than just solo fun. Everything is broken, very entertaining!
The game is super fun, and I like it in a more competitive way. It’s refreshing because it feels like you have a lot of agency in the game. Like, i feel like I can actually control the outcome of my games if I play good, and that feels really nice. The opposite is also true
GOVE REIN SHIELD BASH. MY BOY NEEDS IT
0:24 Wait this is an overwatch video? I’m sorry but I’m leaving. I’ll come back for the comments.
13:24 I agree with everything in the video except this part they've stated multiple times that the removel of a tank was mainly due to a queue time issue (in the frankly terrible role lock system). They've shown in their pretty extensive 6v6 vrs 5v5 devblog the average queue time per role across the history of the game, which reflects the ratio of players in each roles, which shows that, on average, it was 1:3:2, as in for every 3 dps and 2 support players there was only 1 tank player, there was never enough tank players to have good queue times in 2:2:2, so if you are going to stick to role lock I think it has to be 1:2:2
Even in the newest 2:2:2 test they did this season I already got 12 minute queue time. I'VE NEVER GOTTEN THAT IN 5V5. I think the solution after playing the kingmaker play test and loving it is a min 1 max 2/3 queue with some sort of buff to the solo player. If I think I'd be better in 5v5 or 6v6 I can't tell yet
That ALMOST makes sense, but healer was always the longest queue time and the least fun to play. I could find a match as healer in half the time as tank, implying that twice as many people were playing tank.
7:37 I can’t believe you just pronounced Brig like that in 2025, disgraceful lol
honestly makes me not wanna watch the video like wtf do you know about overwatch if you can't even say her name properly 😭 he used a clip of someone saying it properly and still mispronounced it a million times
I was about to say, what's this guy's problem with yo-yo lady?
@@trey3158 THE TOOOWNN-
@@trey3158 you mean biscuit
Hey I loved the video just a tip not in a but hole way but your video format is great just transitions could be a bit better without the sudden cutoff but other than that great video
The damage bonus listed for team up characters are actually always active, you don't have to have the other characters on the field to receive them as they are "season bonuses". It's very stupid wording but it is what it is.
Really walked into this wanting a Marvel Rivals video, and instead, I sat through a video mostly talking about Overwatch
4:06 Dude, wtf...
Dagger is too fine 🤤
@@Ayto27isn't she and cloak underage tho?
came here to say this
@ycyctgyxfif8455 I see no evidence of them being underage so untill there's 100% proof, all is fine imo
@ycyctgyxfif8455 on their debut, yes, but they've been adults for years now.
banger video, cant wait to see what else you make
The sole reason goats existed was because of Briggite and the ow team took it as a format issue and locked it into 2-2-2. If we didn't have briggite we wouldn't have had goats
If we didnt have BRAINDEAD devs who release powercreep hero such as Sigma Orisa and Brigitte, we wont have GOATS
Like, the new heroes are so fkng boring that all they did is just improving old heroes kit in new package
@@3takoyakisall the dev had to do literally is add ban system, yet they didn't
Whilst launch brig was broken as hell, the reason goats came to be was because widow and somewhat hanzo were very strong. The team named goats went 3-0-3 because they didn't have a good enough widow player to contest them so they went with high sustain/bulkiness to combat it, which ended up working well. Furthermore, once 2-2-2 role lock came in we had the same problem occur which resulted in the dread double shield comp again to combat widow and to a lesser degree ash/hanzo.
@@3takoyakis LOL, if I remember correctly orisa when she first came out she was considered dog water and was rarely played. In fact, after she was released she received several buffs to make her viable for the next 2 years. She only became a problem towards the tale end of overwatch when 2-2-2 was implemented and double shield with sig was meta. Off the top of my head she was meta for pulled pork and double shields.
Yes brig was broken at release, no orisa was useless in goats, as for sig we don't know how he would have played because he was released during the introduction of 2-2-2. But i think he wouldn't have been good in goats due to the fact that he gets out brawled by zar, rein, and dva and his kit would have been useless vs that comp.
I think the overall problem was the very slow balancing, dive, moth, goats, double shields, etc lasted way too long.
Just a reminder that 2-2-2 was introduced when GOATS had not been the meta for several months.
“Every hero can’t do it all”
Meanwhile Loki’s Ult is… being able to do it all
2:25 oh you gotta walk the streets carefully in the X-Neighborhood for that take. The X-Fandom loves Magik.
Its insane to me looking back at overwatches history and its slow downfall from where it once was in open queue. Just to look back at Marvel Rivals and see that they have a solution to prevent this from day 1 which is bans. Which honestly should be in every competitive team based games around picking characters, weather it be hero shooters, Mobas or anything else. Really, think about that. If overwatch just put in a ban system after releasing Brig instead of doing role lock, it would have fixed almost every single bad comp we had. Brig being busted? perma ban her until she gets toned down. Double shield meta? all the teams would have to do is just ban 1 or 2 of those shield tanks (like old Orisa) and the comp is way easier to break through. I understand that there would be ways to maybe abuse this, like dive players banning brig then going all in on something like winston+tracer. but it would have been a lot easier to play around. Marvel Rivals literally prevented the top tier characters from plaguing peoples games, because you dont have to play against them if you dont want to. When I got to diamond in season 0, characters like Hela, Hawkeye, and Hulk were almost banned every game, and the experience was so refreshing. It incentivises more strategy in what comps you go with and what strengths and weaknesses you put into your team with your selections. Ban Hela and hawkeye? you just made a game where iron man is very strong because they are some of his strongest counters. Stuff like that lets other, normally non meta picks shine and see their own value. Im so glad the devs learned from Blizzards mistakes and didnt end up going the same route they did. They managed to keep competitive integrity and diversity without sacrificing fun factor and variety of gameplay.
15:37 they heard you
Minus the hela nerf
@@OnbabyamsThey did nerf her health
i was so invested in the overwatch part i forgot this was a marvel rivals video 🤣
watching this after finding out inivisible woman's kit is one hell of a coincidence.
Crucially, Invisible Woman doesn't seem to have much in the way of high damage options, so the usual counter of "get a Duelist to jump her" should work in theory. She does have a vanish (natch) to help her escape, but any time she has to spend invisible is time she's not spending healing or shielding allies.
If anything, I'm more curious how Mr. Fantastic is going to affect things. Reed's rocking what looks like it could be one of the tougher skirmisher kits in the game to crack; I'm curious how a full-on Duelist/pseudo-Vanguard is going to affect things...
@@ThunderMan2212 I agree, sue looks cool but fortunately does less damage than Luna or Mantis, she's not a straight up power creep she's just versatile, but Reed puts fear in my gut lmao
@@ThunderMan2212 I agree, sue looks cool but fortunately does less damage than Luna or Mantis, she's not a straight up power creep she's just versatile, but Reed puts fear in my gut lmao
@@mlgesus8362 he definitely should get some sort of damage nerf
or maybe reduce damage on extra enemies hit
like his attack has reduced velocity after hitting the first guy because his ability to Genshin Neuvillette charge attack is kinda broken
and that is not mentioning his tankyness
I think Marvel Rivals is the perfect game for the support/tank combo character to work really well, because it seems they reward assists equally as much as they reward kills.
The idea of a healer character with powerful tank-like abilities or a tank character with powerful healing abilities, but no damage would honestly be a really cool character, and honesyly might make 1 healer, 3 dps and 2 tanks a viable team comp.
6:15 actually the anchor gets no benefit from a team up the seasonal bonus is always in effect
Glad to see this misconception getting corrected way more now
1:02 the rocket's name was "feet gobbler 69" and i think he needs some help
I kind of disagree about dive. Like yes you can nerf some stats a bit, but movement and angles are inevitably the strongest mechanics in any shooter game. You cannot nerf dive. Once the Rivals player base becomes more skilled this issue will also plague this game. Thats also why Kiriko, Brigitte etc. are so strong, because they are designed to deny dive, but you cannot nerf dive as Ive said, so you end up with heros having heavily boosted kits by either dealing too well with dive or having immortality abilities to deny diving enemies value.
the fact i both almost won and reverse-sweeped with a full dps team says a lot about the game balance
They also blur the lines between roles VERY well. You have some DPS healers, some Tank DPS, some Support DPS.
It just feels GOOD.
Ow does need more nuanced roles fr
Main thing i like about marvel rivals: Supports are not just healing bots and can actually hold their own. Put any of these healers in overwatch and they would be S tier even Jeff ( C tier for what Ive seem ) would be a menace because of his movement and because he would be the only one from the supports in Overewarch who could wipe both teams and himself with his ult (stopped playing after Rammatra came out, I dont know about the others healers that have been released since)
Rocket would put Phara out of a job too.
This missed the mark completely. The newest patch took away support utility and instead focused on buffing raw healing numbers. The best Luna Snow in the world plays exclusively for heals and ignores doing any damage. We're gonna see huge healing creep and comps that take advantage of the insane amount of sustain in the game.
calling brig bridgette is my 13th reason
Silence alphabet
@@swisscheeese oohh..
I think min 1 max 4 would be fairly healthy for the game cause so many times people just lock in dps and refuse to go tank or heals
Brigitte is the result of devs wanting to rank up but not being good enough
Brig was the idea of "Healers can't defend themsleves, give them a gun"
Wh...what
FOR THE LAST TIME, IT’S BRIG-EET-UH
So brigett right?
Bridgette
Garbage character from a garbage game. I once loved that game but for all I care brisket can burn and so can the game itself.
@@lukekusanagi5289 thanks for letting us know 👍
@@ahumanoidtroodon1074 I aim to please friend.
Watch Big Wheel completely break the game
One thing I really like about Marvel Rivals compared to Overwatch is the ultimates. In Overwatch your ultimate was a game changer for most of the characters. But in Rivals they feel less impactful than Overwatch but in a good way. Like it’s more fun to play against
Nah, in mr there are huge ults, like Adam's 5 rez, Bucky's AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN, Executioner's ult, LEGENDAAAARYYYY and other tons of op ults. Ow now feels like "We must kill supports, but they are so quick and they have huge survivability, maybe we need to focus tank. *focusing tank* nah, we can't kill Hazard, let's kill supports. *trying to kill brig + juno* nah, that's not working at all, we have the least solution... *ALT F4, uninstall* "
Half the ultimates in the game are just pressing Q to easily get kills or make you and your team invincible lol what are you talking about
Totally wrong. Most ults are literally cant be outplayed at all besides using another OP support ult.Almost every ult is guaranteed 1-2+ kills(DPS , Tank ults). You need 0.5 planning to use psylock ult, i dont saying that all heroes have that but its much more than ow and its not even close and even dont talked about that every ult is AOE. People clearly dont played overwatch at all. And this is masters player talking ( in both games ).
My brother in Christ, Lunas ult is so strong it basically stops people from dying for half a minute to anything but a one shot.
New Thor can shutdown Luna. Also Magneto or Iron Man. @@MaxLeach-ic3ll
really good video, specially the overwatch section!
So we gonna talk about bridgette but not luna snow? Okay...
Dang man. I have never seen a video with so many correct takes before in my life. You are right about Ironman, storm, hitscan, role q, Mercy, pharah, brigitte, ow2 and its incorrect focus on tanks. GOATed video
8:12 Mc... Mc what now?
💀
McCree, his name
@@reimei0221 wasn't it the previous name of Cass in the first Overwatch? Like Joel?
@damired it was his name originally but if you play the fame knowing them as Cree for 5 years I'm not gonna change up and say Cass
@@reimei0221 oh wow damn, I just read about the situation
It doesn't make sense though, why would they draw attention to the irl Jesse McCree? Wouldn't Blizzard and players benefit from keeping the old name and not changing anything, therefore cementing OW1 McCree as the cowboy hero and leaving the irl McCree to be completely forgotten due to the popularity of the game's McCree?
I'll then start calling him McCree just out of spite
That was such an an amazing explanation of the domino fall of Overwatch
I just have to say, Rivals characters arent that good
they're alright.... but none of them are polished. that's what Overwatch gets right, the characters. Rivals doesnt compare
also, Rivals characters a lot of the time dont have very clear weaknesses. they do all have unique playstyles, but their weaknesses are usually just in roles they dont fill, not anything special. like Hawkeye and Mantis are weak to flankers because they're slow backline characters. that's like saying a plane is weak to anti aircraft guns
then you got to Overwatch and you failed your points miserably. correlation between healing and escape options, and you think of Zen in that spectrum? he has next to no healing outside of his ultimate, as consistent as it is. also Moira had more healing than Mercy, and a better escape option. it was just playstyles and hero design my guy
and I just want to comment on Brigitte by saying, her flaw was her overpowered nature, not her design. Brig is a very well designed hero, she was just overtuned to hell at launch. you can see how she's a well designed character in current ow2: she has clear strengths and weaknesses, she's both good at surviving/defending teammates, but easily focusable, and that extra tanking and healing she brings to the table comes at the cost of the worst dps in the game by a longshot and no exceptionally powerful utility no one else has (like sleep or immortality field)
clearly the majority dont gaf about whatever "polish" is in your definition tho
@ the majority are satisfied by mediocrity. and that's okay. doesnt make my comment any less true
Rivals matches are more fun than Overwatch matches, and the characters are good enough that most people wont notice the difference in quality all that much
@@soloshottie "da mosht are shatishfied by mediocrity!!!" god you aggresively sound like a nerd rn
no, the general public doesn't like mediocrity, that's why so many games have been failing. and no, you're not above anybody else lol because you think a game that has had almost a decade to cook has more polish than a game released last month.
@ I said the general public accepts mediocrity. they do lean towards quality, and Rivals does lean toward quality, but it isnt THAT good, nothing all that special, just a solid game. why so many games have been failing is because they're BAD and/or are fundmentally unfun
and on the "a decade to cook" please, Overwatch's characters felt really good from day 1. yeah there were some holes, like dva's defense matrix not having a resource meter, but they were overall well polished at launch. and in recent years, new overwatch content has been noticeably less polished than before
Thank you for making me remember the absolute misery of dealing with Brigette. I will not be sleeping tonight
Considering Rivals just announced two characters with similar mechanics to Bridgette, I'm rather worried. People are drowning the game in praise and refusing any critique.
Ults that result in team wide immortality, extra health on demand, personal shields for anyone you want etc. The rock paper scissors between ults also feels pretty bad.
And Wolverine? God throw the whole character into the trash, the kit is horribly designed. It's both useless and one of the most toxic set of abilities I've seen.
No lie bro, this was one of the best yt vids I've seen in a while. Great commentary and bits of comedy, I was genuinely laughing out loud multiple times. keep it up dude that was awesome
On the subject of team comps,i won my first game in diamond going an all healer comp. I just asked my team to go 6 strategist and it worked lmao. Meta comp guys get on it now.
We had a team do that against my friends and I. We swapped to 4 DPS-2 healers, one being widow, and a mantis to buff all the DPS. That worked pretty well. But that's the fun and wacky part of no role lock that we love!
6:40 Funnily enough, I keep thinking of this one with very rare and very weak 6 character Team-Up Concepts, very specifically with the "Series I" Avengers (Strike Force Term) To give them very weak healing access or something to make that 3 Tank and 3 DPS viable as a baseline. The whole concept being to allow the very unconventional team a fighting chance when sustainability is the biggest value a character can provide, a 6 person team up that specifically focuses on making the weakness of the build less crippling, but also not make it strong enough where they can actually outmatch a team that has a single character that handles that weakness.
The 3-3-0 compostion have some heals and mobility, the characters that suffer are the slow ones (like Magneto), they are the characters that can't reach med pads. The composition is bad, but playable.
I’m all for criticizing overwatch, but it is currently a far more competitively viable game. Also, when you make comparisons, you shouldn’t just lie. It did not take them a year to start nerfing brig, it took 2 months. And they kept on nerfing her. She got 14 nerf patches straight throughout Overwatch 1’s lifespan, and her first patch in Overwatch 2 (the beta) was also a nerf. They also nerfed her 8 separate times before introducing role-lock. Yes, brig was a massive outlier and mistake for Overwatch, but the devs did try to fix it. I have a feeling eventually Marvel Rivals will release some AOE healing supports, and we will probably go straight back into a goats meta unless they nerf said supports to be unplayable without goats. That would have been the only solution for brig. Make her so bad she is completely unplayable.
correct, theres ton of misinformation in the ow section to begin with lol marvel already has goats meta, 3 supports are very viable and supports like luna and mantis are laughably overtuned. they are literally already at brig level.
Even when Brig was nerfed into the ground, GOATS didn't die, it just started dropping Brig more often. In 2019 our team would routinely drop our Brig for Sombara or Ana or Moira... maybe Bap, but I might be just misremembering based on us running Bap in bunker comps. Lucio was the one character in GOATS who never, ever swapped to a different character - any of the tanks might swap to Ball and/or Winston, Zen and Brig might swap to Ana/Moira/Bap/Sombra, Dva might swap to Mei, but Lucio? The AoE heals and speed boost were a necessity for the comp to function.
Bro predicted triple heals
Let's not pretend like it being a game with Marvel superheroes isn't doing at least 50% of the heavy lifting
For real. So much so fans seem to ignore the issues of thr engine and strangely how therr is outright too much healing in rivals.
Marvel do some lifting, but you must also convince hero shooter fanbase to leave overwatch and play rivals
You forgot how big overwatch back in the day and its still the household name for hero shooter no matter how many people claim how dead the game is
Heck even vocabulary people used in rivals are STRAIGHT taken from overwatch
Not really. Game is fun. Most complaints are just skill issues. Too much healing? Just focus the healers instead of the tanks. Switch characters instead of one tricking and crying
Maybe that's the reason 80% of superhero games fail. I mean, Kill the Justice League, Midnight Suns, Gotham Knights, Avengers were ALL HUGE SUCCESS right?
Ngl Rivals truly feels like a bunch of heroes and villains fighting with how overtuned everyone can be and I love that about it.
Something that will always dampen my enjoyment of marvel rivals is how strong the healing is. Tf2 will always remain my favorite hero shooter for the reason that a medic isn't going to heal off the damage of taking a rocket to the face before you can even shoot again. Even without the dps passive supports in overwatch can't always save their teammate from a flanker just by healing. In marvel rivals there are some characters that just can't kill through healing.
This also goes into making no playable characters. Like imagine comic book character who has telekinesis, kinda boring but if they are only able to control metal then you have a really cool power that forces creativity.
Your credibility as an Overwatch player is questionable when you don’t know how to pronounce Brigitte. It’s a hard g sound like Gary, it’s not “Bridget” with a j like Jared.
I think the issues with Overwatch goes a lot deeper than the team comp stuff and the balance around competitive, (when honestly no game should be balanced around high end competitive play, because the majority of the playerbase is going to be more casual and doesn't touch that). There's so much to talk about regarding bad changes to the general feel of the game as time went on, and particularly when they slapped the "2" on the title and reworked a lot of the characters to just be worse.
One of your main complaints regarding Bridgette was that she was basically a "jack of all trades" character, but that can honestly be said about most of the characters in Rivals. With Peni I tend to get the most kills and damage dealt out of anyone in my team, and she's a tank. I've seen people playing healers wrack up more kills than half the DPS on the team while still keeping everyone alive. The difference is that the game is balanced around the idea that roles are more fluid, so you're not as locked in to specific roles and can play around more with your favorites.
Overwatch went the other route, where they focused too much on the roles themselves and as time went on that just got worse and worse. Particularly after the reworks that came with "2", because they changed some characters completely to focus more on their "role" while removing the identity of those characters. I mean, they switched Doomfist who was an assassin style DPS who's whole thing was one shotting weak enemies with a single punch at the risk of him dying easily, into a tank who can't one shot at all even against lower base health characters.
Blizzard did respond with nerfs to stats, but it didn’t break dive at all. Dive didn’t fully die after brig because she enabled dive just as hard as she neglected it. Dive truly died when goats was realized
Dive characters were constantly getting nerfed in OW2 and would not stay down, because fundamentally they could not make dive bad without absolutely trashing the entire unit of dive characters. It was either they all get nerfed or something new that countered would do, either way dive as a whole was very all or nothing
But Dive has never felt as necessary in OW2 as it did in OW1, nor as necessary as GOATS or Bunker during that meta. Maybe that's changed in the last year, but fights in OW2 became less dependent on teams sticking together in one group, with each player having more agency.
One thing I love about Rivals is that they just buffed every single character rather than nerfing a singular character, PERFECT
I really don't understand why people are liking marvel rivals so much, imo it's a shittier overwatch, I've been playing it recently but it's not that good, way more clunky, doesn't run as well as overwatch, the game isn't as clear, most characters do the same stuff, some designs are shit like Cap America, Spiderman, Iron man, the third person camera makes me sick after 3 games, really it's not for me. I don't play overwatch anymore too but it's miles better imo.
And thus, Hela got nurfed a bit and storm got buffed a bit.