The superior replacement for BV of the Thunder Hawk is the Nightstar NSR-9J; it trades one Gauss for an ER PPC, the Gauss Rifles are in the arms, and the better store of ammunition is in the torsos, assisting in padding the XL engine. But what makes it really outshine the King Crab is that it maintains Variable Range Targeting that the Thunder Hawk has- and the ER PPC maintains near 1:1 the same range bracketing as the Rifles to get the to-hit modifier with VRT. The difference in BV between the KGC versus the NSR or TDK is more than made up for having VRT when perks rules are in play.
@agentoranj5858 byproduct of the FASA desperation for everything of the era to have a XL to speed up play. A standard engine Nightstar in 1995 becomes the defacto assault of choice for almost any list. Fact remains is it's still more survivable stock than its heftier stablemate and maintains the same perk line.
Regarding the clan light mechs, I think part of that is less the designs themselves and more down to the fact that light mechs in general become significantly less useful once you move past introtech. Once you're in an environment where XL engines, pulse lasers, and the like are floating around freely there aren't very many cases where it's worth bringing a light mech over a fast medium, and even then most of those cases could arguably be better filled by a VTOL or vehicle rather than a light mech. That's not to say that they're completely obsolete, mechs like the venom and hollander can still be very useful, but their niche definitely contracts by a noticeable amount. In terms of other mechs to look at, one option might be to look at general, overall trends for particular factions. Take a handful of mechs strongly associated with each of the Great Houses (eg maybe the Raven and Sha Yu for Liao, the Jagermech and Enforcer for Davion, the Awesome and Trebuchet for Marik, etc), rate the designs using your usual criteria, and see which house "does it best". I've seen several comments over the years that the game has issues of developer favoritism, and of some factions getting badly designed mechs "on purpose". I'd be curious to see how much of that criticism actually holds water.
It's true, but there are some playable lights nonetheless. Yeah interesting idea about the faction breakdown, there is so much overlap in availability but the signature mechs are very different. (One thing is, it's too bad for Liao that stealth armor is kind of overcosted in BV, although I'm glad they didn't err on the side of undercosting it.)
If you're going to spend the BV on a thunderhawk you can get a Devastator DVS-2 for about 90 less BV and do more damage at long range. Also a Viper/Dragonfly makes every light mech look bad.
Thanks for the video! In my play group the worse a mech is the more likely we are to play it, especially if I'm doing the opfor, so this will be inversely inspirational.
Just a "great minds think alike" thing, I queue up my videos like 6 weeks in advance. When I saw yours I was like "Ohnoz he scooped me" but luckily there weren't any mechs that overlapped!
The problem with the artic cheetah is the same with the hellbringers, ecm, probe, tag mounted on the same chassis runs up that bv requick. Look at the darkage era arablast. If the cheetah ran just the ecm or probe it would be up there with the with the viper with auto included clan light mechs.
Something else to mention about the Viper that makes it great: the Sloane 220 Lockover System. An optional ruleset from one of the magazines basically gives any mech with that thing, like the Clint or Viper, a free targeting computer.
Clan light mechs omnimechs are truly horrible. It makes complete sense that the clans that tend to use them the most have all been practically wiped out. Likely it only took a single Rifleman IIC in partial cover to do the job.
It has puzzled me for forty years why it is that stock Mechs tend to be so badly designed :D The only thing I have ever been able to put it down to was an attempt to 'build in' weaknesses that experienced players can take advantage of.
@@jamesc.7216 I agree - I used to say that before I began to give the Mech designers a bit more credit :D edit: By which I mean that I started out scoffing that the mech designs were just fitted to the images and later added that layer that gave the designers an 'out' for how bad some of the Mechs were :)
1. Some vehicels should represent downgraded starleage designs - earliest gamesetting was ca 3020. 2. Inherent weaknesses will speed up the game - more and earlier "boom". - thats just my opinion.
Hello Trailblazer. I have few comments on the Mechs used in your video. None of which are 'flames', nor worth exposition. Instead, I will confine myself to a single Mech design that most players discount, overlook, and generally dislike. That Mech being the humble Locust. For 3025 Era, an 8/12/0 Mech, with several configurations isn't all that bad. Yes, one good hit by any 'real' heavy weapon just about guarantees the Mech's destruction... that is, IF, it can hit the fleet-footed little Mech. My own experiences with the Locust are many, and storied. From about 1985 through the mid-90s, I used whole 'swarms' of Locusts against my foes. And let me tell you, the wails of 'unfair!' and 'that just can't be right!' were music to my ears. I will explain. A basic Locust, armed with a single Medium Laser and a pair of machine guns, costs about 1.5 million space bucks. And Atlas of the same Era runs 9.6 million. That means the Atlas is 6.4 times as expensive as a single Locust. Or, you can afford 6 Locusts and have 600K space bucks in your pocket for Mg ammo. Six Locusts, always at the run, can swarm an Atlas and ensure that at least one or two are always behind the big, lumbering behemoth of a Mech. Which means that collectively they can keep 'back stabbing' the Atlas until it falls, with only a minor chance at being taken out, or mission killed, in the process. In my experience, the 6 to 1 scenario usually plays out that ONE Locust is totaled, with one or two more with repairable damage, and three totally untouched. This means that my 'losses' are 1.5 million vs 9.6 million. Now apply that to your usually seen Heavy or Assault Lances. For every 'Atlas equivalent' fielded, I can afford to field six Mechs against it. And in some cases, more (for the sake of simplicity, we'll say your average Medium Mech is around 5 million, Heavies at 6.5 million, and Assaults 7+ million, with some outliers running upwards of 17 million). So, and 'average' Heavy Lance would have three heavies and a medium as 'scout', so... 3x6.5 plus another 5, or, call it 25 million space bucks for the lance. For that price you can get: 34 Locusts! Yes, you will lose several before they all go down (I've done it several times. Usual outcomes were: 6 totaled, 13 damaged, and the rest untouched. That's 15, about half the force, that survived without taking damage at all, and the 13 damaged would be totally repairable). Fielding 34 Locusts with those loss ratios means that I lost about 9 million space bucks, to the Enemy's total loss of 25 million. Plus, since I 'won' the battle, I get to salvage the remains, and will probably collect around 60% of that 25 million, or roughly 15 million space bucks. That puts me 6 million in profits after replacing the 9 million of losses. Please note: All of this is based upon 3025 Era Battlemechs and their C-Bill prices. Go up the timeline, and things get massively worse for the heavy Mech players. For today's lesson in Mercenary field work and how to make War pay... your cost was the time to read all this. BTW: After several years of swarms of Locusts, my Playing Group (we never named the group) banned me from using swarms. I guess cost-effective warfare was just not 'fun' for them, although it was VERY profitable for me. ( And yes, I did the whole 'Savannah Master Swarm' thing too). *Insert 'over the top' villain laughter here*
The King Crab 001 is the only Assault mech I run regularly; the Wraith TR1 makes most Clan Lights so very sad for pretty cheap. As for bad mechs I have a few recommendations. The Atlas is one, I've only ever seen then under perform. Another would be the Cougar, it is SO fragile.
Try the Atlas AS7-S3-DC, with some supporting LRM units. Command Console allows for some excellent bonuses, such as spotting for LRM fire and +2 initiative. Gauss, 2 PPC, and LRM 15 lets it fight from far away, spotting for LRM'S pretty much the entire match. So hard to kill even if it doesn't move.
I agree with you on the Artic Cheeta as its more a 30 Wasp. Maybe it was to use smoke and that one is expensive for that tactical preference. Thunder Hawk vs KC. Yes I do take the KC over the T-Hawk as I have lost lots of T-Hawks do to XL death. The biggest advantage of the T-Hawk is it does not kill the pilot if the Gauss detonates. But often I take the T-Hawk with a line of Alacorns. I have a Cestus and I will not defend it. But fits well with the Star Slayer and other mechs with large lasers. Most often I consider the energy variant but that one is hot enough to cook ramen noodles in the cockpit. The Falcon Hawk and the Night Hawk vs the Wolfhound. That is subjective to preferences. As the Lynx and two Talons with a Falcon Hawk as a sniper or Night Hawk as light fire support has won me many games. The Wolfhound is a combat mech and would not be suitable for the lances requirements. You’re correct. This is a good metal exercise. I enjoy videos like this one. As it would help a player figure out their requirements for a game or help a veteran player find new options.
If you arent in a mech that is heavily exploiting the 11-12 range band fir medium firing and doesnt dedicate enough weight to weapons to bracket fire a single large laser is at worst comparable to a single PPC. If you're in a mech that already wants to get up to range 6 or less and brawl or backstab, 1 LL +1 ML +1 heat sink is the same weight and net heat as a PPC for more overall punch and options for heat management.
@@clockworkseal2135 I mean, sure, if you want to play the numbers game and not just see how much man made lighting you can send screaming across the battlefield, I suppose you have a good point 😜 In more seriousness this is also why the Snub Nosed PPC is so much better than the OG PPC on most mechs.
Thunder Hawk with a 2/5 pilot slapping people at the end of medium or even long range keeps the armor intact. I mean it's got maximum armor coverage. Takes a while to get through.
@@TrailblazerBT Can't believe I forgot to reply. My argument is basically that it's an extremely efficient way to bring two fantastic weapons to the field in a sufficiently mobile package, with enough armor to take a PPC or AC/10 shot to any location but the head without taking internal damage. I've used it to great effect myself several times, either in support of other units or just as a purely Panther-based lance. Admittedly, with the latter I was in support of another player with a more conventional lance in a 2v2, but still, that only highlights how effectively a Panther can support heavier units.
What's your opinion on the Cyclops 11-B as an alternative dual gauss boat? The rifles are in the torsos but both are cased and the mech has a standard engine and thick armor. It has a significant weakness in that it loads a ton of SRM ammo into the CT but overall it makes for a durrable fire support unit and a good use of my Cyclops models on the tabletop Also yeah as much as I love the Hankyufor its looks the only one I ever use is E with its pulse lasers and MG arrays. I'd rather the better armor of the viper tho
CP-11B is a good pick, I have it on my list of 'Mechs to play with someday although I've never used it. CT ammo doesn't bother me very much although it's not ideal of course. My nitpick about it is that it skimps on armor just a little more than I'd like; the KGC has more than 50 extra armor points. SFE does make up for that to an extent. I like the 'Mech for sure, but the KGC is just a tad better I think (*if* you dump a ton of Streak ammo).
IMO the best Clan Lights either have insane speeds which net near consistent TMMs of 4 (Fire Moth H, Incubus, Phantom, Piranha, Solitaire) for backstabbing the slow moving big boys or have a great enough armament combined with decent mobility (Horned Owl, Puma, Cougar Prime). The Artic Cheetah is good if you need a multi-use mech for certain missions or campaigns since it has an Active Probe and ECM tied to great mobility and a decent armament. Sadly, the Arctic Cheetah has untapped potential within its Chassis. If you were to keep it's AP and ECM and give it 2 MPL, 2 SRM4s, and 1 extra jump jet you have a superior configuration that is CHEAPER by 100 BV than the prime.
Xl engines don't exist to save weight. They're put on mechs with "too much firepower" to give them a CRIPLING VULNERABILITY. Then they take the extra weight that they 'gained' and put it towards gear that is, at best, of marginal utility. The Thunderhawk? Surely you NEED an XL engine to get three gaussrifles and six tons of ammo. Nope! Ditch the medium lasers (That it cant use without overheating!!!!), go to Light Ferro with 18 tons, and endo steel. You get CASE in both torsos! You loose only two points of armor! Oh, and you have to remove the hands and one of the lower arm accuators. BV 2549. Thats right, its cheaper than than the OG.
There are some nice designs that couldn't exist without an XL: Falconer, Rakshasa, Wraith. But IS XLs on a 100-tonner are almost always a bad design choice.
I don’t know how controversial this will be, but I honestly believe that the majority of the sniper mechs in the inner sphere can be successfully replaced by a 950bv Hollander F3. I look at stuff like the Rifleman and Panther and they are just inferior in their dedicated role.
@@thesalamanderking3475 Interesting! The Hollander goes down pretty easy to shooting, if your opponent has a heavily armored long range mech like an Archer or a Gunslinger or something that mech could bring down a Hollander in a couple turns before it earned out its BV. Or a Clan mech with large pulse is lethal against a Hollander.
There are a bunch of overpriced units, especially for their roles, on both the Clan and Inner Sphere sides. Despite the love for it, the Hatchetman is a great example. A melee mech with underwhelming armor and slow movement... and when it's inevitably upgraded with an XL engine, it becomes more brittle and yet twice the cost. For just a little more, you can have an Axman, which fills the same role, but its better. There are a bunch of Dragonflies that are underwhelming for their cost, but there are some gems. The "I" variant has three Heavy Medium Lasers and a Targetting Computer to compensate, and has a reasonable price. Given its standard 8/12/8 move, it can close the distance very well and SAVAGE a much larger mech. Vehicles are another example of finding bargains if you dig around. Clan vehicles pack a punch but tend to be under armored and very expensive. (And given the new Mercenaries rules, vehicles will see a drop in usage. Thanks for screwing Clan Hells Horses AGAIN, CGL). Why take a very expensive Epona when you can field multiple Kamisori light tanks, or Minions, or whatever for the same cost.
You like Locusts right? Who doesn't? The Locust IIC 1 has 8 ER Small lasers and 1 med pulse. Don't get hit, but it has slightly more armor than a lot of it's competition. Most variants run cold and are under 1000 BV
I haven't played long but the crab lines seem to just work well for there role. Any thoughts on doing a melee video? is it even viable? The hatchetman is the definition of underwhelming and i have a hard time getting the famed Charger to charge well(i do place the blame on me more then the mech) I want the berserk to work but damn are they expensive.
Gota disagree with you about the gauss mechs. After thousands of games with them I can say keeping them in the side torsos is the correct call. That placement keeps them much MUCH safer and if you are taking torso crits then that means you lost the fight entire turns ago. The perfect example being the Pillager PLG-3Z. I have seen that mech kill three mechs a turn and reliably kill two mechs a turn. On the other hand the King Crab is wasting three and a half tons on a single SRM-2, runs too hot and can't even jump. I have tried all the big gauss mechs and I can tell you that, one on one and on average, a mech with gauss in the torsos will beat mechs with gauss in the arms all day, every day.
@@FoxxofNod Huh interesting! I'm open to the possibility that I'm thinking about this the wrong way based on a small sample size of games. But for one thing the side torsos are very vulnerable to rear attack. It's not easy to keep a Wraith or a Wolverine or something out of the back arc of a hundred tonner in a foolproof way.
I'm playing in a campaign as a mech company in the year 2029. What is your suggestion of effective mechs at BV 3000-4000 total for the lance. Im getting absolutely destroyed every game by a HBK-4G.
Locust 1E for sure, for other BV-affordable mechs in this era I also like the TDR-5SS, CN-9AL, FS9-M, and actually the Charger. I talk about a couple of these in th-cam.com/video/D-3Skza5-xI/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/SOhwIDhTiqE/w-d-xo.html
@@TrailblazerBT It gets a pass because a Phoenix could just be a *flavor.* Fire Falcon, Shadow Hawk, Phoenix Hawk, all fine. Falcon Hawk is just... It's just bad. Anyway, love your content! Keep it up!
c-lrm work short range as well ;) i would choose the viper over the cheetah as well but do not underestimate clan lrm, they are awesome edit: contractions! 🐻❄
![โรงเรียนห้ามรัก โดนจับได้ตาย...!! [เอิร์นไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4u02Sbr556Q/mqdefault.jpg)
The superior replacement for BV of the Thunder Hawk is the Nightstar NSR-9J; it trades one Gauss for an ER PPC, the Gauss Rifles are in the arms, and the better store of ammunition is in the torsos, assisting in padding the XL engine. But what makes it really outshine the King Crab is that it maintains Variable Range Targeting that the Thunder Hawk has- and the ER PPC maintains near 1:1 the same range bracketing as the Rifles to get the to-hit modifier with VRT. The difference in BV between the KGC versus the NSR or TDK is more than made up for having VRT when perks rules are in play.
If the Nightstar didn't carry enough ammunition for for a whole company it wouldn't need an XL engine. Very silly design.
I don't take quirks into account, so my vids won't be fully reliable for those who do.
@agentoranj5858 byproduct of the FASA desperation for everything of the era to have a XL to speed up play. A standard engine Nightstar in 1995 becomes the defacto assault of choice for almost any list. Fact remains is it's still more survivable stock than its heftier stablemate and maintains the same perk line.
Regarding the clan light mechs, I think part of that is less the designs themselves and more down to the fact that light mechs in general become significantly less useful once you move past introtech. Once you're in an environment where XL engines, pulse lasers, and the like are floating around freely there aren't very many cases where it's worth bringing a light mech over a fast medium, and even then most of those cases could arguably be better filled by a VTOL or vehicle rather than a light mech. That's not to say that they're completely obsolete, mechs like the venom and hollander can still be very useful, but their niche definitely contracts by a noticeable amount.
In terms of other mechs to look at, one option might be to look at general, overall trends for particular factions. Take a handful of mechs strongly associated with each of the Great Houses (eg maybe the Raven and Sha Yu for Liao, the Jagermech and Enforcer for Davion, the Awesome and Trebuchet for Marik, etc), rate the designs using your usual criteria, and see which house "does it best". I've seen several comments over the years that the game has issues of developer favoritism, and of some factions getting badly designed mechs "on purpose". I'd be curious to see how much of that criticism actually holds water.
It's true, but there are some playable lights nonetheless. Yeah interesting idea about the faction breakdown, there is so much overlap in availability but the signature mechs are very different. (One thing is, it's too bad for Liao that stealth armor is kind of overcosted in BV, although I'm glad they didn't err on the side of undercosting it.)
If you're going to spend the BV on a thunderhawk you can get a Devastator DVS-2 for about 90 less BV and do more damage at long range.
Also a Viper/Dragonfly makes every light mech look bad.
The Devastator is my pick. Double Gauss Double PPC
Definitely a close second to that KGC in my book!
@@dennismaddox3869 what if I told you the Schrek XL is well armored and has 3 PPCs?
@@TheManyVoicesVA That Dev 2 can run and gun with no heat on its load out can your Schrek do that?
@@dennismaddox3869 well... yes. Because it's a tank. It's required to have all its weapons sinked.
You threw a curve ball I thought we were talking about real war machines, the ones with legs.
Thanks for the video! In my play group the worse a mech is the more likely we are to play it, especially if I'm doing the opfor, so this will be inversely inspirational.
Ammo in XL torsos gives big BV discounts. It's really good lol. Did my last bad mechs video inspire this one?!
Just a "great minds think alike" thing, I queue up my videos like 6 weeks in advance. When I saw yours I was like "Ohnoz he scooped me" but luckily there weren't any mechs that overlapped!
@@TrailblazerBT hahaha nice.
The problem with the artic cheetah is the same with the hellbringers, ecm, probe, tag mounted on the same chassis runs up that bv requick. Look at the darkage era arablast. If the cheetah ran just the ecm or probe it would be up there with the with the viper with auto included clan light mechs.
Something else to mention about the Viper that makes it great: the Sloane 220 Lockover System. An optional ruleset from one of the magazines basically gives any mech with that thing, like the Clint or Viper, a free targeting computer.
Oh man, I had that issue of BattleTechnology as a kid. Sloane 220 was so broken, so was the Dalban HiRez if I remember right.
I enjoy all of Trailblazer videos 🎉🎉
Clan light mechs omnimechs are truly horrible. It makes complete sense that the clans that tend to use them the most have all been practically wiped out. Likely it only took a single Rifleman IIC in partial cover to do the job.
I'll admit many (MANY) others are overpriced for what you get. But there are gems out there.
The Vixen and Phantom say hi!
I quite like the Dragon Fire and Maelstrom for 3058 mechs.
DF for sure, Maelstrom is a little heavy/BV expensive for what you get in terms of firepower
It has puzzled me for forty years why it is that stock Mechs tend to be so badly designed :D The only thing I have ever been able to put it down to was an attempt to 'build in' weaknesses that experienced players can take advantage of.
It's flavor. Fluff over function.
Trying match the weapon loadouts to the pictures.
@@jamesc.7216 I agree - I used to say that before I began to give the Mech designers a bit more credit :D
edit: By which I mean that I started out scoffing that the mech designs were just fitted to the images and later added that layer that gave the designers an 'out' for how bad some of the Mechs were :)
I appreciate Battletech being a franchise that appreciates good old fashioned military industrial boondoggles.
1. Some vehicels should represent downgraded starleage designs - earliest gamesetting was ca 3020. 2. Inherent weaknesses will speed up the game - more and earlier "boom". - thats just my opinion.
Hello Trailblazer.
I have few comments on the Mechs used in your video. None of which are 'flames', nor worth exposition.
Instead, I will confine myself to a single Mech design that most players discount, overlook, and generally dislike. That Mech being the humble Locust. For 3025 Era, an 8/12/0 Mech, with several configurations isn't all that bad. Yes, one good hit by any 'real' heavy weapon just about guarantees the Mech's destruction... that is, IF, it can hit the fleet-footed little Mech.
My own experiences with the Locust are many, and storied. From about 1985 through the mid-90s, I used whole 'swarms' of Locusts against my foes. And let me tell you, the wails of 'unfair!' and 'that just can't be right!' were music to my ears. I will explain.
A basic Locust, armed with a single Medium Laser and a pair of machine guns, costs about 1.5 million space bucks. And Atlas of the same Era runs 9.6 million. That means the Atlas is 6.4 times as expensive as a single Locust. Or, you can afford 6 Locusts and have 600K space bucks in your pocket for Mg ammo. Six Locusts, always at the run, can swarm an Atlas and ensure that at least one or two are always behind the big, lumbering behemoth of a Mech. Which means that collectively they can keep 'back stabbing' the Atlas until it falls, with only a minor chance at being taken out, or mission killed, in the process.
In my experience, the 6 to 1 scenario usually plays out that ONE Locust is totaled, with one or two more with repairable damage, and three totally untouched. This means that my 'losses' are 1.5 million vs 9.6 million.
Now apply that to your usually seen Heavy or Assault Lances. For every 'Atlas equivalent' fielded, I can afford to field six Mechs against it. And in some cases, more (for the sake of simplicity, we'll say your average Medium Mech is around 5 million, Heavies at 6.5 million, and Assaults 7+ million, with some outliers running upwards of 17 million). So, and 'average' Heavy Lance would have three heavies and a medium as 'scout', so... 3x6.5 plus another 5, or, call it 25 million space bucks for the lance.
For that price you can get: 34 Locusts! Yes, you will lose several before they all go down (I've done it several times. Usual outcomes were: 6 totaled, 13 damaged, and the rest untouched. That's 15, about half the force, that survived without taking damage at all, and the 13 damaged would be totally repairable). Fielding 34 Locusts with those loss ratios means that I lost about 9 million space bucks, to the Enemy's total loss of 25 million. Plus, since I 'won' the battle, I get to salvage the remains, and will probably collect around 60% of that 25 million, or roughly 15 million space bucks. That puts me 6 million in profits after replacing the 9 million of losses.
Please note: All of this is based upon 3025 Era Battlemechs and their C-Bill prices. Go up the timeline, and things get massively worse for the heavy Mech players.
For today's lesson in Mercenary field work and how to make War pay... your cost was the time to read all this.
BTW: After several years of swarms of Locusts, my Playing Group (we never named the group) banned me from using swarms. I guess cost-effective warfare was just not 'fun' for them, although it was VERY profitable for me. ( And yes, I did the whole 'Savannah Master Swarm' thing too).
*Insert 'over the top' villain laughter here*
Yeah the Locust is definitely a good deal for the points and the C-bills!
The King Crab 001 is the only Assault mech I run regularly; the Wraith TR1 makes most Clan Lights so very sad for pretty cheap. As for bad mechs I have a few recommendations. The Atlas is one, I've only ever seen then under perform. Another would be the Cougar, it is SO fragile.
Try the Atlas AS7-S3-DC, with some supporting LRM units. Command Console allows for some excellent bonuses, such as spotting for LRM fire and +2 initiative.
Gauss, 2 PPC, and LRM 15 lets it fight from far away, spotting for LRM'S pretty much the entire match. So hard to kill even if it doesn't move.
I agree with you on the Artic Cheeta as its more a 30 Wasp. Maybe it was to use smoke and that one is expensive for that tactical preference.
Thunder Hawk vs KC. Yes I do take the KC over the T-Hawk as I have lost lots of T-Hawks do to XL death. The biggest advantage of the T-Hawk is it does not kill the pilot if the Gauss detonates. But often I take the T-Hawk with a line of Alacorns.
I have a Cestus and I will not defend it. But fits well with the Star Slayer and other mechs with large lasers. Most often I consider the energy variant but that one is hot enough to cook ramen noodles in the cockpit.
The Falcon Hawk and the Night Hawk vs the Wolfhound. That is subjective to preferences. As the Lynx and two Talons with a Falcon Hawk as a sniper or Night Hawk as light fire support has won me many games. The Wolfhound is a combat mech and would not be suitable for the lances requirements.
You’re correct. This is a good metal exercise. I enjoy videos like this one. As it would help a player figure out their requirements for a game or help a veteran player find new options.
Trading out a PPC for any number of large lasers isn't ever an upgrade.
@@ObiwanNekody i think you are underrating the large laser. It's one of the better introtech weapons. In later eras youre probably right though.
If you arent in a mech that is heavily exploiting the 11-12 range band fir medium firing and doesnt dedicate enough weight to weapons to bracket fire a single large laser is at worst comparable to a single PPC. If you're in a mech that already wants to get up to range 6 or less and brawl or backstab, 1 LL +1 ML +1 heat sink is the same weight and net heat as a PPC for more overall punch and options for heat management.
My overall love of PPCs makes me support this statement, though I suspect it has little basis in hard facts 😂
@@clockworkseal2135 I mean, sure, if you want to play the numbers game and not just see how much man made lighting you can send screaming across the battlefield, I suppose you have a good point 😜
In more seriousness this is also why the Snub Nosed PPC is so much better than the OG PPC on most mechs.
@@fedupN the fact is that a PPC is just so much cooler than a laser, and we are playing a game of stompy robots.
Thunder Hawk with a 2/5 pilot slapping people at the end of medium or even long range keeps the armor intact. I mean it's got maximum armor coverage. Takes a while to get through.
Thunder Hawk is definitely not a bad 'Mech, just not as good as that KGC
I vote for the Gunslinger purely for the fact its got Medium Pulses in the back of its feet.
GUN-1ERD baby
Tempted to make a version of this video that's just me telling people to replace any 'Mech with an equivalent BV of Panthers.
I'd love to hear an argument for that!
I approve of this message. PPC supremacy.
@@TrailblazerBT Can't believe I forgot to reply. My argument is basically that it's an extremely efficient way to bring two fantastic weapons to the field in a sufficiently mobile package, with enough armor to take a PPC or AC/10 shot to any location but the head without taking internal damage. I've used it to great effect myself several times, either in support of other units or just as a purely Panther-based lance. Admittedly, with the latter I was in support of another player with a more conventional lance in a 2v2, but still, that only highlights how effectively a Panther can support heavier units.
What's your opinion on the Cyclops 11-B as an alternative dual gauss boat? The rifles are in the torsos but both are cased and the mech has a standard engine and thick armor. It has a significant weakness in that it loads a ton of SRM ammo into the CT but overall it makes for a durrable fire support unit and a good use of my Cyclops models on the tabletop
Also yeah as much as I love the Hankyufor its looks the only one I ever use is E with its pulse lasers and MG arrays. I'd rather the better armor of the viper tho
CP-11B is a good pick, I have it on my list of 'Mechs to play with someday although I've never used it. CT ammo doesn't bother me very much although it's not ideal of course. My nitpick about it is that it skimps on armor just a little more than I'd like; the KGC has more than 50 extra armor points. SFE does make up for that to an extent. I like the 'Mech for sure, but the KGC is just a tad better I think (*if* you dump a ton of Streak ammo).
Like that CP could have 45 armor on the front CT and it has 36, that will make a difference in plenty of games.
IMO the best Clan Lights either have insane speeds which net near consistent TMMs of 4 (Fire Moth H, Incubus, Phantom, Piranha, Solitaire) for backstabbing the slow moving big boys or have a great enough armament combined with decent mobility (Horned Owl, Puma, Cougar Prime).
The Artic Cheetah is good if you need a multi-use mech for certain missions or campaigns since it has an Active Probe and ECM tied to great mobility and a decent armament.
Sadly, the Arctic Cheetah has untapped potential within its Chassis. If you were to keep it's AP and ECM and give it 2 MPL, 2 SRM4s, and 1 extra jump jet you have a superior configuration that is CHEAPER by 100 BV than the prime.
Ya the KGC-001 is nice but I really want to try the 010. I know lore wise it would basically never be encountered.
You beat me to it. The 010 is my favorite king crab variant. Edit: field refits are a thing.
@@jamesc.7216 have you gotten a chance to play with one? Next time I can get a gaming day I want to try it out.
It breaks my heart that I don't get to play with that mech in ordinary eras
I also like the Wyvern WVN-5Nsl. Good trooper mech.
5:03 I'd take the stock Gallowglass , energy boats for the win
Yes, it's not as close to the Cestus's role for purposes of the comparison though
Xl engines don't exist to save weight. They're put on mechs with "too much firepower" to give them a CRIPLING VULNERABILITY. Then they take the extra weight that they 'gained' and put it towards gear that is, at best, of marginal utility.
The Thunderhawk? Surely you NEED an XL engine to get three gaussrifles and six tons of ammo. Nope! Ditch the medium lasers (That it cant use without overheating!!!!), go to Light Ferro with 18 tons, and endo steel. You get CASE in both torsos! You loose only two points of armor! Oh, and you have to remove the hands and one of the lower arm accuators. BV 2549.
Thats right, its cheaper than than the OG.
There are some nice designs that couldn't exist without an XL: Falconer, Rakshasa, Wraith. But IS XLs on a 100-tonner are almost always a bad design choice.
I don’t know how controversial this will be, but I honestly believe that the majority of the sniper mechs in the inner sphere can be successfully replaced by a 950bv Hollander F3. I look at stuff like the Rifleman and Panther and they are just inferior in their dedicated role.
@@thesalamanderking3475 Interesting! The Hollander goes down pretty easy to shooting, if your opponent has a heavily armored long range mech like an Archer or a Gunslinger or something that mech could bring down a Hollander in a couple turns before it earned out its BV. Or a Clan mech with large pulse is lethal against a Hollander.
well now you just guaranteed I'll be driving the bad mechs.....
They're not bad, just a bit less than optimal!
Wolfhound bad no boing
I respect that opinion, but still you gotta admit it's better than the Night Hawk and the Falcon Hawk
Clan light Omnimechs are usually trash. The Incubus however is amazing. I also like the Horned Owl.
I know it's from the wrong time period but you should take a look at the Hammer Head from clan Sea Fox sometime.
@@canbeone7277 I will! Not familiar.
There are a bunch of overpriced units, especially for their roles, on both the Clan and Inner Sphere sides.
Despite the love for it, the Hatchetman is a great example. A melee mech with underwhelming armor and slow movement... and when it's inevitably upgraded with an XL engine, it becomes more brittle and yet twice the cost. For just a little more, you can have an Axman, which fills the same role, but its better.
There are a bunch of Dragonflies that are underwhelming for their cost, but there are some gems. The "I" variant has three Heavy Medium Lasers and a Targetting Computer to compensate, and has a reasonable price. Given its standard 8/12/8 move, it can close the distance very well and SAVAGE a much larger mech.
Vehicles are another example of finding bargains if you dig around. Clan vehicles pack a punch but tend to be under armored and very expensive. (And given the new Mercenaries rules, vehicles will see a drop in usage. Thanks for screwing Clan Hells Horses AGAIN, CGL). Why take a very expensive Epona when you can field multiple Kamisori light tanks, or Minions, or whatever for the same cost.
@@mikegould6590 Hatchetman is one of the worst, sad to say.
@@TrailblazerBT I can't argue with that.
The base cost of xl engines, ff, and endo steel is what drives the BV up in clan light mechs. Mediums are the better choice most of the time.
Ok,
So if you are playing Clans
And you WANT light Mechs
What should you take?
There are lots of bad examples
But what are the actually good ones?
Dasher H, Cougar Prime, Piranha. Horned Owl is OK.
I'd add in the Incubus, Adder B or H, and Mist Lynx B (played conservatively).
Incubus rules all IMHO.
You like Locusts right? Who doesn't? The Locust IIC 1 has 8 ER Small lasers and 1 med pulse. Don't get hit, but it has slightly more armor than a lot of it's competition. Most variants run cold and are under 1000 BV
I haven't played long but the crab lines seem to just work well for there role. Any thoughts on doing a melee video? is it even viable? The hatchetman is the definition of underwhelming and i have a hard time getting the famed Charger to charge well(i do place the blame on me more then the mech) I want the berserk to work but damn are they expensive.
Gota disagree with you about the gauss mechs. After thousands of games with them I can say keeping them in the side torsos is the correct call. That placement keeps them much MUCH safer and if you are taking torso crits then that means you lost the fight entire turns ago. The perfect example being the Pillager PLG-3Z. I have seen that mech kill three mechs a turn and reliably kill two mechs a turn. On the other hand the King Crab is wasting three and a half tons on a single SRM-2, runs too hot and can't even jump. I have tried all the big gauss mechs and I can tell you that, one on one and on average, a mech with gauss in the torsos will beat mechs with gauss in the arms all day, every day.
@@FoxxofNod Huh interesting! I'm open to the possibility that I'm thinking about this the wrong way based on a small sample size of games. But for one thing the side torsos are very vulnerable to rear attack. It's not easy to keep a Wraith or a Wolverine or something out of the back arc of a hundred tonner in a foolproof way.
Cetus is also ugly AF. I had the miniature gave it to a friend because of how ugly it was. The TRO image looks better than the actual miniature.
Yeah I like the TRO picture of it but not the miniature. It was also very difficult to glue the mini together right, and the scale was off.
I'm playing in a campaign as a mech company in the year 2029. What is your suggestion of effective mechs at BV 3000-4000 total for the lance. Im getting absolutely destroyed every game by a HBK-4G.
Locust 1E for sure, for other BV-affordable mechs in this era I also like the TDR-5SS, CN-9AL, FS9-M, and actually the Charger. I talk about a couple of these in th-cam.com/video/D-3Skza5-xI/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/SOhwIDhTiqE/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the link and taking the time to respond!
the 001 King carb was comstar only for long time so thats not a direct replacement for thunder hawk
@@TheGreystroke Check the Master Unit List, the 001 is very widely available
@@TrailblazerBT cool thats a retcon then as it was made from old king crabs C* had with the XL engines they had left over
@@TheGreystroke Yes, they changed its fluff in TRO 3050 Upgrade I think.
8:28 uuuummmm Clan LRM doesnt have a min range , so you fully should be shooting your LRMs at close
Didn't mean to imply they have a minimum range ofc, but the 21 hex range of the LRMs is pretty useless on an 8/12/8 mech.
@@TrailblazerBT for a one off game yes , for campaign play that's what you want
Is there a good alternative to the flawed rifleman? What about the shadow hawk?
For the Shadow Hawk your answer is here! th-cam.com/video/xJdonZxd_wg/w-d-xo.html
Respectfully, the Shadow Hawk is NEVER the answer. Ever.
Consider the Lancelot for your rifleman replacement.
Everyone drags the Rifleman until VTOLs and Aerospace Fighters come knocking....
@@andrewamann2821 Or you take the Hatchetman with its mighty "anti-aircraft" targeting quirk. XD
That'll stop 'em!
Look, I'm not saying you're wrong, but hear me out. Ok? All I'm saying is... Three Gauss Rilfes. Ok? Three. Just saying. Three Gauss Rifles.
Next up how the Cataphract is better than a Ceasar , a Vindicator is better than a Centurion and a Raven is better than a Valkyrie
Honestly, all the mechs from TRO 3058 should be swapped out, just on the grounds that they're all butt-ugly.
The Falcon... Hawk?
Falcon Hawk. I hate that. Terrible name.
Although you could criticize the Phoenix Hawk in the same way. And I don't like it when anyone criticizes the Phoenix Hawk XD
@@TrailblazerBT It gets a pass because a Phoenix could just be a *flavor.* Fire Falcon, Shadow Hawk, Phoenix Hawk, all fine. Falcon Hawk is just... It's just bad.
Anyway, love your content! Keep it up!
Having someone point this out I can now not unsee it. I have never encountered the Falcon Hawk outside this video, but now I hate it.
@@ObiwanNekody Try saying it out loud. It feels worse than just reading it.
c-lrm work short range as well ;)
i would choose the viper over the cheetah as well but do not underestimate clan lrm, they are awesome
edit: contractions! 🐻❄