The Truth About Carbon Fiber Wrapped Barrels: According To Science
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! Are carbon fiber-wrapped barrels a good investment? Or are they a waste of time? Joseph Von Benedikt has the answers for you, according to science, in this episode of Ron Spomer Outdoors.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
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As a gunsmith, I no longer offer carbon barrels for long action magnum calibers. The only way that I offer a carbon fiber barrel is for short actions up to 300 WSM and only in the heavier M40 (Proof Sendero) contour. We simply have not seen the performance out of carbon barrels in magnum calibers and we’ve tried both Proof and Bartlein. The other issue we see is that carbon barrels will shift point of impact quicker than an all-steel barrel from heat. The issue is not cooling but how quickly they heat up. I think it’s telling that Proof no longer offers the Sendero Light in .30 cal and above. The ONLY advantage that we’ve seen out of carbon barrels is lighter weight. If there were advantages to carbon with concerns to accuracy, we’d see them on benchrest and F-class guns.
Proper assessment I'd agree
Carbon added to a light barrel is a good thing.
Metal taken away from a barrel and replaced by Carbon, not so much.
The thing about the comp scene is they're burning through barrels and weight is considered a good thing.
I would like to know more about what you are saying. I'm not too sold on carbon fiber barrels
"How quickly they heat up"
I'm guessing that's due to the significantly reduced volume of steel surrounding that thin steel bore, and the difference in thermal-transfer ability of steel-to-carbon. So basically the steel barrel core gets a resulting higher heat concentration than it would have if it was just steel from the core to the exterior on a standard barrel.
This guy sounds so much like Ron, I thought it was a spoof video. Then I thought, "Maybe it's his son.". Then I thought, "I don't know what the hell to think.". At any rate, great video. :)
Exactly what I thought. The voice and the delivery was offputting for me. Still though, great content.
Yeah the voice seems like a fake attempt at knowledge like a vocal fry to kids..
I bought a proof research barrel for my ruger precision 6mm cm several yrs ago. It has been so redicoulousy accurate over 2500+ rounds that I am a believer
It’s carbon fiber?
@@primer3458 that’s what Proof Research makes. Carbon
My proof carbon fiber in 308 cal is the most accurate barrel I've ever owned. I've had fiber carbon barrels from other vendors but the proof is the one.
Same rifle here in .308 with a PR carbon barrel and I've sent 2,400 rounds down range with zero issues. Sub MOA every time.
CF barrels are ideal for long hikes to your hunt location then taking 1 to 2 shots.
Not an afternoon on the bench.
Ron looks weird
This dude has made a living bashing the .308. I can't listen.🤣👍
This guy is good but Ron is great! I am a old timer with 60+ years of hunting reloading and collecting and it just sounds better come from one of us old guys🤔😳
@@JamesJones-cx5pkI have the utmost respect for the 308! My dad hunted with one when the pre64’s came out in 308 and shot John Nosler bullets almost before they came out to the public because of my dads gunsmith and one of John’s friends and I have seen 3 elk drop with 4 shots from a 308 win in the early 60’s!
@@edwardabrams4972 I always liked Col. Craig Boddington. I even met him at a SHOT show years ago. The torch has been passed to Ron. He does a great job.
@@JamesJones-cx5pk Bashing? So if someone isn't the same degree of enthusiasm about it as yourself, the perspective is that they are a "basher" of something because your own enthusiasm is 100% objective, scientifically warranted, and in a field of other calibers--well founded?
I hardly believe he makes a living on "bashing" as you put it. His earning-a-living is in the outdoor hunting, conservation, and journalism space and as such, he covers topics, some of which you might consider unsavory.
Well this answered my question. I often wondered about shooting the bigger calibers with the heat on what metal is left in the barrel. Will be nice for hunting and not carrying a big heavy barrel.
This is very timely for me. Looking forward to this very much.
Great intro. Your addition and contribution to the channel is very welcome.
I used to own the same kimber Mountain Ascent you have on the table in 270 (Aka Jeff Coopers dream rifle) At under 5lb it was extremely light. I ended up with a Winchester extreme weather in 30-06. Definitely a heavier (still fluted) profile barrel, but I’d say a far better worry free just works kind of rifle. Especially with a lighter stock than the factory B&C
My first and foremost concern is the first shot. I understand the necessity of a follow up shot on occasion but not many are going to shoot more than that. Are carbon barrels more accurate on the second shot, or third in a hunting scenario? Does the weight savings help or hinder the hold? And does that justify the cost?
As always, yours and Josephs experience are the reason we watch.
"There are no solutions, only trade-offs" - Thomas Sowell. Good job guys. I'm loving Mr. Benedicts contributions to the channel, and started noticing his name on several online articles that I've read because of his help at RSO. All good stuff, all really appreciated.
280AI was mentioned several times in this video. Do some barrel manufacturers/ rifle companies that make 280AI barrels use improved "match style" chambers with a section of freebore or do they use the SAAMI chamber? My main concern with the SAAMI 280AI is that it uses the old style 280 Rem chamber which is just a straight taper without a section of tight freebore to assure bullet alignment with the bore.( Ackley left the front of the chamber the same as the parent so an existing rifle barrel could be easily modified to the "Improved" style.)
FWIW, just a few years after the 280 Rem was released, Remington switched to the "match style" chambers for all its new cartridges, including the 7mm Rem Mag.
You are spot on about air gaps being very effective thermal insulator. Basically, air gap is the best thermal inulation after vacuum.
I have 3 carbon Barrel rifles. All shoot great. No impact shifts or cold bore shifts. When the barrel heats up it keeps the barrel the same heat consistently through because it’s an insulator. So you don’t get cold and hot spots. Just even temp throughout.
Excellent content, thank you.
I saw that video where the guy unscrewed the carbon barrel and demolished the cinder block with it. Then screwed it back on and there was no point of impact shift. Blew my mind.
Appreciate the information, good video..
Good job Ron. Thanks
Mine just came in and because I am working with a older Rem 700 action and currently don't have a lathe, I went with the Remage style carbon fiber barrel, which like all remages uses a barrel nut system like savage and allows you to not only install and headspace the barrel yourself with just the always needed go, no go gauges, but you can also make adjustments to say tighten the headspace (within specs) anytime you want, which I guess may or may not be meaningful say if you reload, and find you want to reduce the amount your brass expands in your chamber, a bit more so in other words Its not a one shot deal like custom fit, also you don't have to buy ( or rent) a finishing reamer like a short chambered pre fit barrel.. It's a viable option for any typical Remington 700 action, that aren't built with the specs to pre fit barrels like some modern actions. Now if that Manners stock will come in. ..
Where did you get your remage style barrel from? I currently have a remage criterion barrel but I've thought about trying the carbon for weight savings.
Excellent. Thank you.
I have a Proof Research. 30 cal for my 30-06 AI build and its a Hammer. Falling in love with the carbon barrels.❤❤ and they are beautiful imho
Great show and thanks for the info 👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👌💯💯💯
So many claims for carbon wrapped barrels are based on flawed logic assumptions. For example it ignores carbon is a thermal insulator and steel is a thermal conductor, so of course the thermal insulator carbon will be cooler on the outer surface; and of course the thin inner steel barrel sleeve will cool faster because there's less thermal mass to absorb the heat. But that ALSO means due to the lack of thermal mass of the thin inner steel barrel sleeve to act as a heat sink, the thin steel is going to not only heat faster, but also much hotter when shooting long stings of fire, but an unimportant issue for hunters, and a very bad issue for competition and such.
True I have seen it my self on all my carbon barrels
Actually, the carbon fiber itself is highly thermally conductive. The thermal conductivity of the bulk material used will depend on any other ingredients added.
@@nevgeth40 I'd have to disagree. Yse, of course there's some thermal leakage through the carbon, but that doesn't make it a conductor of heat, just not 100% effective as an insulator.
@Oldhogleg "disagree" with the facts all you want. Carbon thermal conductivity = 129 Watts/mK and 416 Stainless is 17 Watts/mK (higher is more thermally conductive). The only thing that is an insulator is the epoxy used. Show us your evidence that carbon wrapped barrels have lower thermal conductivity. You made the claim so the burden of proof lays on you.
@@TurboTaco2JZ OK, we're both partially wrong. I should've been more precise with my language for those who didn't assume I was talking about carbon fiber composites which has a thermal conductivity anywhere from less than 1W/mk to 7W/mk depending on the fiber orientation that are used on barrels, not just the pure carbon only.
I am willing to seek the truth about this!
Agree with carbon and accuracy -- they are cool looking as well which I believe is the reason why people are purchasing product 😮--i was going to get one I am over the looks and needing it-- I will be practical and go with a very lightweight steel that yes is lighter that Christianson fft --The bottom line is I will only need one round and I don't need the cool looking carbon barrel 😮
As a handloader. I can attest to the accuracy node's being wider with the Proof barrel. It was actually odd to me that accuracy and point of impact stayed consistent across charge weights and shot strings. Minded I only shoot 5 shots with a 5 minute cool down and write down my load details and velocities. I am not out slinging 15 or 20 shots at a time.
I can say it was shocking how many loads were good in the proof barrel. Testing new bullets and powders it really seems you land on something special pretty easy. Had to rethink what "ok, average, great" for me. Used to be ecstatic to get a .9 inch group. Figured it was as good as I could shoot. Now my ok loads are 1.1inch, average in the .750 and great down in the .4's. It's made nerding out shooting and reloading more fun knowing I can get there more often with this barrel.
That is the point about thicker, stiffer barrels. The vibrations are smaller than with thin barrels and this tends to make them less picky for accurate loads. I have always had a fondness for thicker than average barrels for that very reason. Then again, I don't need to carry them very far, so the extra weight is not as important to me as it is to someone who needs to hike long distances.
@jfess1911 yeah I hiked a few miles today with it. That said my old rifle was a heavy barrel. I just couldn't get consistent accuracy out of, or accuracy i could actually get excited about. Was frustrating to reload for. Won't say the brand because I assume maybe it was just a bad day at the factory.
@@marklacombe2671 It's always possible to get a bad barrel, unfortunately. The thicker ones, on average, are more forgiving, but occasionally you run into a "hummer" thin barrel that seems to shoot everything well. Those drive the barrel makers nuts because they still don't know why they those particular barrels are so good!
Carbon fiber? Is it like my Daisy's.
.22 bolt action one?
The nodes can not be wider just because you turn down a barrel and then wrap insulation and plastic less dense, less stiff, that traps heat in the steel. The Proof cut rifled barrel blank does not know if it is going to become a carbon wrapped steel Proof barrel or an all steel non-wrapped Proof barrel same blanks same process.
I have been watching the new Paradigm factory going up in Yankton, South Dakota. As a local radio reporter that has watched the entire process unfold, and being an avid hunter, I look forward to my first interview with them as it pertains to what makes them different than other manufacturers.
I appreciate the conversation. I may consider a carbon wrap barrel in a particular purpose platform and caliber and even if I never get one the information is still interesting.
Thanks
Negative..
Think of jet aircraft etc which are subjected to expansion/contraction/ heat/ cold.. Epoxies and the technology behind them offer substantial positives.
Using 416ss our tension barrels, ( since 90'... ) Competition pistols, Centerfire Rifles, and Benelli Semi-Auto, Top Accuracy, replacements are full of OPTIONS. ( ie : Compensated, Ported, and for Target work... E.C.'s TUNER-BRAKE, & Cryo,
ECM~ Std... etcetera.
Appreciate your helpful tips for the interested Shooters ( most... ),
Respectfully, Seth
I've never owned a carbon fiber barrel, but I do work with carbon fiber for a living. The thing that stands out to me is that steel will expand when it heats up, but carbon fiber is very dimensionally stable when it heats up. Now maybe the carbon will hold the steel to it's shape as it heats, I don't know. A bolt action might not have much of a heating problem, but a semiauto may, if it's shot rapidly. I do have a 10/22 heavy bull barrel and a lathe, so I do plan to make my own carbon fiber barrel out of it. Mostly because I like the light weight & the look.
I'm in it for the light weight in a HUNTING rifle. I have no intentions of unloading a magazine in rapid fire with my HUNTING rifle! So any cons due to heat build up is a NON-ISSUE for me. Most often just one shot, but if necessary, 2 or 3 at the MOST. And by the same token, I am concerned only with the accuracy of the first few shots, where number 2 and 3 shots are right with the 1st! It is NOT going to be a BATTLE rifle!
Guess what? If you took the carbon fiber wrapping off that barrel would be even lighter. If you want a light weight barrel use a lighter profile or shorter barrel.
Agreed, but what about a day at the range? I shoot my hunting rifles at the range for load development and practice, and go through 20 - 40 rounds in a day. (allowing the barrel to cool between pairs of shots) If a carbon barrel takes longer than a standard steel tube, that would be a disadvantage to me at the range. Weight is the only advantage I see (well, and cool looks).
Most guys aren't shooting in their hunting rifles enough to generate significant losses in accuracy due to heat. And most people aren't going to notice the paltry weight savings carbon barrels provide.
I think that’s a very accurate set of statements, couldn’t have put it better myself.
Spoken like a guy that hunts real close to where he parks his truck.
@@chublez he said "most people," which is a factual statement as most people hunt close to the truck
Predating proof was ABS barrels, which is the tech that proof uses. I still have some ABS barrels made on Bartlein blanks, and they are truly phenomenal. Back then though it was far more bespoke, not mass produced.
As a gunsmith and rifle builder, I will not warranty any rifle for accuracy that I put a carbon fiber on. I use Douglas barrels and guarantee 1/2 moa or better. I have built about 6 carbon rifle barrel rifles and not one is consistent and will group well. It is a gimmick. The Douglas barrels I use will outshoot most owners.
Excellent stuff bro
I have that kimber in a 30.06, one of the best guns I've ever shot, it's extremely accurate, I shoot hornady 165 sst. Barrel does get hot quicker when practicing but if you throw one shell in at a time and your powder doesn't heat up it'll still shoot accurate for many shots. I've learned it's the powder heat that effects accuracy more than barrel heat.
Interesting...yeah, when at the range, I don't chamber a round until I'm on target and just about ready to fire for the reason you're saying. I can get SDs in the single digit SDs in most of my loads. I have not run scientific tests, but it only stands to reason that brass that's allowed to heat up will affect even temp stable powders. I also try to maintain a somewhat stable barrel temp. Easy in cold weather, more time consuming in hot weather.
@timx1733 my neighbor went out to a place in Utah where the guy builds you a custom Long range weatherby and trains you to shoot it, he proved this to my friend and like you said, some of us have proved it to ourselves, I'm going to do a test video running a whole box through at 400yds and see what happens sometime early spring
BSF Barrels slide a CF tube over a barrel that is undercut in the area underneath the CF tube so the CF doesn’t touch the steel barrel. There is an air gap between the barrel and the CF tube. The CF tube has ventilation holes to allow air circulation to vent away the heat. You dont want the CF trapping the barrel heat because it is an insulating material.
The CF tube butts against a shoulder on the barrel and is captured on the other end by a threaded barrel end piece. The threaded end piece is torqued to put the CF tube in pre-compression. This pre compression puts the steel barrel in pre-tension and makes the barrel very stiff in addition to the stiffness qualities of the CF. Because of the different expansion rates of the steel barrel and the CF tube, the barrel gets stiffer the more the barrel temperature increases.
I think this is a well engineered design. Certainly better than wrapping CF in direct contact around a barrel.
I shoot my BSF barrel chambered in 6.5 Grendel and have a very small POI change as I heat up the barrel. I usually get a 1” shift up and to the right between the first cold bore shot and the end of a 10 shot string pausing no more than 10 seconds between shots. Best 3 shot group size was .175” and I average 1 MOA in a 10 shot group.
I chose a 20” barrel because of the weight savings from the CF and the way the barrel stays cooler during bench sessions and load development. Not bad for a gas system AR in my opinion.
Would be nice if you could compare the same barrel without the CF wrapping
@@eugeneterblanche2024 - An all steel barrel is probably 2-3 lbs heavier. I think the CF sleeve makes the barrel assembly considerably stiffer than an all steel barrel. I would never shoot 10 rounds in less than 2 minutes because of the heat, but the composite barrel stays quite cool.
I have some feather weight bolt guns that really open up when they get hot. A 1/2” group will open up to 2” or more so for what its worth I think BSF Barrels is onto a really good idea.
I think your intuition about the air space is right. Air gaps like that are used to insulate windows. I would bet the thinner steel liners get really hot, especially since steel has a pretty low thermal diffusivity for a metal.
@@janneman27 both work, actually. Just depends if you're concerned with temperature or heat energy
Great information. I am surprised you did not mention Fierce Firearms
Re. the demonstration with the cinderblock, did he also attempt the same with an equivalent all-steel barrel? If so, with what difference in shot group afterward?
Great Podcast 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Dead air space is definitely insulation - fiberglass batting, double and triple paned windows, down parkas, etc, and Thermos bottles.
A sleeved barrel is going to insulate unless given the Lewis gun treatment. Lewis guns have sleeved barrels BUT they have air ports at either end. The effect is a venturi effect where air is drawn through from one end to the other. Moving air provides more cooling than a perforated cover allowing full exposure to the atmosphere. This effect of Lewis guns provides enough air flow to blow out a candle flame just from air movement.
Unless that sleeved barrel provides similar air flow, it DEFINITELY insulates and hides the heat.
The one company that I know of that does the sleeve is BSF. They machine slots to let the hot air exchange out.
They cost more, I don't need 10 shots, can be damaged when dropped. Outside of Proof, shat is Springfield selling me? Great video, great addition to the channel.
The only carbon barrel I have is a Is vacortson barrel on my S&W 22 victory and it's a tack driver. But I've never tried to overheat it. Cause it's an expensive barrel.
I have read that Italian arms manufacturer Sabbati has patented a new method to keep the barrel cold while minimizing wear ”MRR Multi-Radial Rifled, cold-hammer forged barrel” would be grateful for a section where MRR is explained and evaluated. Perhaps a test of the Sabbati Tactical EVO promised with 0.25 MOA straight from the factory.
Been eyeballing a Sabbati rifle for a while specifically because of that MRR. I can't find a lot of test videos or discussion on them, but the little I can find all say they are incredibly accurate, but that barrel life isn't so great. For a $2200+ rifle, low barrel life isn't exactly a confidence builder.
My 308 waypoint was spot on to 675 in wyoming this last week on prairie dogs.
I own several hunting rifles that have carbon wrapped barrels and I have not noticed them as being any more accurate than my rifles with good steel barrels, but i do agree that they do cool down faster than pure steel and they will hold their accuracy better over longer shot strings....Hb
Me too on my super magnums and over a hundred custom builds over the years!
Which barrels?
Watch out Ron, I'm enjoying this young man almost as well as I do you!!!
Would love to see you do a comparison of the 7prc vs 28 nosler.
First I enjoyed the video.👍
You bring out some great points.
It’s only my opinion.
I believe that for long range target shooting
Steel is your friend.
Example I have a 6mm Remington in a heavy barrel and after 10 fairly quick shots can still hit gopher’s at 300yards.
But for hunting Carbon is your friend.
Fact is 1/2 or 3/4 of a pound off it will make a huge difference after packing it a day in the field.
Especially now that I’m 68 years young. Lol.
Cheers
I own a Cooper firearms 28 nosler wirh a proof research barrel. I've been using it for 5 years haven't failed me yet. Would i buy one again ? Probably not just because I really don't need any more rifles . But if a new
cartridge came out that i just had to have i would want a proof research barrel.
My waypoint has the 24” bsf carbon….how good are there tests and processes joe..?
How's the durability of the carbon fiber outer surface through the brush and such? Just in terms of holding up appearance.
When benchrest in the military snipers switch to carbon I’m a considerate there a lot of people having issues with accuracy consistency with carbon wrap Barrels
I made my own tensioned carbon fiber 300 blk barrel. Super light and thin.
18:06 on the matter of sleeved barrels, look at a company called BSF barrels. They put a ported CF sleeve over a fluted steel barrel. The ports are ran along the length of the barrel in the same location as the fluting. They claim, i believe, 5% barrel contact and the fluting and ports allow for maximum heat disipation.
I have 2 different brand CF barrels, unfortunately not in the same caliber. One is by christensen arms, and the other is a BSF barrel. The BSF holds its accuracy much longer and doesn’t get hot to the touch. The christensen is hot to the touch after about 6 shots
C F barrel on my hunting rifle-it’s lighter and I like that because I’m an older guy. It shoots really good groups but if you keep shooting the groups open up. I hunt with it so that doesn’t bother me
Webley and Scott Xocet advertise their barrels are carbon fibre wrapped.....what a surprise it was to find that when I took the barrel nut off the carbon fibre wrapped part of the barrel also came off of the barrel....it's 0.9mm fibre tube that merely fits over the barrel, it doesn't even touch the barrel.
As an Engineer with some knowledge of Thermodynamics and Heat transfer, I fail to see the advantage of CF wrapped barrels. We need actual data etc about affect of HT and dampening affect to proof its worth
Tanks have been wrapping their barrels with thermal blankets for stability and accuracy for years now.
Just out of curiosity, what is the life expectancy on carbon fiber barrels? I deal with high pressure cylinders and in the industry there are cylinders that are fiber wrapped. These cylinders have to be tested every 5 years and after the third test discarded (per DOT regulations). And for some reason, we called them bombs.
As far as I know, the DOT regs for fiber wrapped pressure vessels has not changed in over 25, maybe 35 years. They are not very good at keeping up with improving tech. They were in a "this is new, so we will be conservative mode" when the fiber wrapped container regulations were added in the 1980's. It appears that they have not been provided the funding for research and allowed to update their standards for a very long time. The last significant changes in the regs that I recall were well over 20 years ago when they revised some of their shipping codes (yes, I am an Old Fart).
CF-wrapped pressure vessels are a different beast than a CF-wrapped barrel. The CF matrix isn't under any significant amount of tension on a barrel, which is the cause of CF fatigue on the pressure vessel.
The determining factor on a CF-wrapped barrel is the thinner barrel itself being "shot out". The determining factor on the lifespan is going to be the round being shot, the amount the barrel has been thinned, and the number of rounds fired.
@@TheMrMused quick question, what about that rifle that been stuffed away in the closet for 20 years. Do the CF epoxies break down over time.
@@raivkka4313 Impossible to answer the question without knowing how many extreme thermal cycles the barrel has experienced. (i.e. how many rounds and sessions the barrel has experienced)
Unused or with minimal usage and just squirreled away in a closet, that CF wrapping is going to have a lifespan exceeding multiple humans. There's bare minimum hygrothermal (yes, hygro), no chemical, bare minimum thermal (room temperature excursions), no mechanical, and no UV damage being done.
Obviously the more the barrel has been exposed to those conditions prior to storage, the shorter the lifespan will be, though exactly how long is extremely difficult to ascertain.
I bought a BSF carbon fiber barrel. It also has vent holes in the barrel to help lighten it up and it's a heat. Have you ever used one and what do you think?
Yes I have a waypoint in 6mm creedmoor with the BSF carbon barrel. Shooting one shot or rapid strings of 4 or 5 it’s been sub minute 90% of the time. Never over 1.3” in any scenario. 60 rds so far. Love the concept of the BSF barrel.
Didn’t we do this experiment in the 60s as Winchester offered a fiberglass wrapped shotgun barrel. The main issue was that they lost their chokes as the barrels blew out.
Glass is an insulator. Graphite transfers heat far faster than steel.
The only carbon fiber barrel I want is on a dream mountain rifle with a Bat vampire or a kelbly nanook, or something else. (Not sure yet and don’t have the cash lol) chambered in 7 short action ultra mag, probably.
Ron, where are you??
I worry about the effects of extreme heat on the epoxy glue holding the carbon layers together. That glue has to deteriorate after being heated to extreme temperatures over and over.
Proof Research really introduced carbon barrels and they have the best tech out there. The problem with large calibers is there is not enough metal left
So much stuff in the firearms industry is miles into the "diminishing returns" zone. Not speaking for every rifleman, but how many riflemen could say, "I missed my shot because __________" and fill in the blank about the next 100, 1000, or 5000 dollar piece of tech that will bring that bullet another inch closer to the reticle crosshairs?
This is the crux of marketing, always promising customers that their money can achieve something that only raw talent can give them. We are already sitting at cheap $500 dollar rifles achieving EASY sub-MOA @ 100yd with cheap everyday ammo.
There will always be a premium market for people who have plenty of money for a slight improvement, real or imagined. Sometimes the improvement is mainly cosmetic. It is what has kept high-end gun makers employed ever since the firearm was invented. Heck, look at how much extra it costs to get just a wood stock with premium grain.
Neverthless, even though I am a cheapskate, even I will spend a little more money if I think the improvement is worth it.
I have 2 Christensen MPR .308s with Carbon Fiber, a 20 and a 24 inch. I just just an AR 10 build in .308 and put an 18 inch Christensen carbon fiber barrel on it. All these are tack drivers.
Interesting
Shot 2 of them in 30-378 Weatherby factory rifles and both are under a half inch group with factory ammo.
My little brother has worked at proof research for 7 years. So I had a little suspense for who you were going to say what’s the best lol
Great Video..., Have you heard anything about the Bergara CURE Carbon Barrels?
Others that have tested heat on carbon barrels suggest that the outside gets cool faster because the carbon does not conduct heat as well as solid metal therefore the inside of the barrel gets hotter faster and cools slightly slower than a totally metal barrel.
ABS barrels was the first to get a good carbon wrapped barrel. They were bought out by Proof I believe.
3 proof barrels here. 24” 6 bra coyote gun. 16” 6mm arc ar and a 28” 338 norma mag improved I shoot 300 grain Berger elites out of it. No issues. Have shot the 338 out to 1500 yards to verify with the kestrel. All tac drivers. I’m a believer. I also shoot f class matches locally. Carbon is not used due to wanting the weight so the guns will be less recoil sensitive and track better in the rest 21-22 lbs). Also carbon being 50-60% more per barrel would add up fast.
I'm running 3 proof barrels, 2 magnum bolt guns and a gas gun in 6ARC, all are amazing. Sustained fire, rapid rife, there's no impact to accuracy/POI shift. Only real debate if whether the weight savings is worth the additional cost to you.
So many people in these comments that I honestly think have no real world experience in ownership of a proof barrel. I have had nothing but great results out of 4 that I own. I am a believer in there intended purpose and use. I have noticed a correlation with most dislike comes from fudds stuck in their ways.
Very informative thank you!
The advantage of bi component technology is rather old knowledge!
European in the middle age were surprised to see worriors coming from the steppes with very little bows far out performing theirs huge bows made of wood only !
Imho unless you want the best of the best realistically when hunting the advantages described is the video are rather marginal.
But if the price point of those barrels are to go down substantially they might be future !
Did production work making heat insulating cones for mars viking rocket engines[ missions. Used" resin and cabon pressed glass. Guess they worked pretty hot[ thonk of it as a huge gun
reducing your waistline,,helps on cutting weight down more,,,space type scopes are not needed either,,
Finally a good video with good info. 👍 not just another " this is why you should choose xyz cartridge over abc cartridge" .
Like the automobile maybe we need a computer involved 😆😂
What is your honest opinion of the Savage 110 proof carbon wrapped barrel rifle in 6.5 or 7mm PRC?
Great barrel not so great of action! They are very accurate but the action is very rough in the Savages on the hundred or so Savages I have owned! If you don’t mind that the Savage is very accurate.
Same opinion as Edward. I have a 110 ultralight in 6.5 PRC and it's the most accurate rifle I've owned and shoots everything I feed it well. But the action is just terrible... It feels like working a metal file against a cheese grater covered in gravel.
@@heythere4970 I have always been impressed by the accuracy of Savage rifles.... but my only bolt actions were Lee Enfields that were ridiculously smooth. I got spoiled. I will probably look at Tikka if I ever buy another bolt gun, unless some one has a better suggestion.
Own several tikka t3x's for the money they have the smoothest actions and best triggers I have 6.5 creedmore and a 223 both re-barreled with proof research carbon barrels
Do you have any feedback on Fierce Firearms carbon fiber barrels?
Springfield Model 2020 Waypoint 6mm Creedmoor carbon fiber barrel. So far, sub MOA out to 500 yds. Haven’t really stretched her legs yet, but still impressive.
Me too. Same gun. BSF makes that barrel. Has worked well for me
Using Hornady Black 105gr BTHP. Very accurate for box ammunition.
@@johnnybogs precision hunter ammo is all I’ve shot threw mine. Sub minute consistently
They string when they get hot. Good for hunting and cold bore, but I wouldn’t use them for tactical applications
I believe Christensen was the first to make a carbon barrel. They came from the aerospace world and were the first to take carbon fiber into the firearm world.
no way he speaks this way normally. A great impersonation of Ron, though. This guy has a future as an actor
I like mine. Nice and light. Stiff enough not to shift when I throw a suppressor on it. I only use them on my hunting rifles.
I may have missed it I heard proof which nobody can dispute. I didn't hear Christensen or Carbon 6 which make great barrels as well seamed a little like a advertisement. Im sure there's some other fine barrel makers that I missed. Thanks for the information
I recently did quite a bit of research on carbon barrels and talked to many well-known gunsmiths about my project. Every one of them recommended Propf and Bartlein carbon barrels for my purpose- which is a lightweight hunting application. I had suggested Christensen pre-fit for my Remingron 700 action (which is really just a short chambered barrel) but they advised against those. When I actually get my build going it will be with a Proof barrel. Hands down.
The “lighter weight” barrel issue is a nonstarter for me.
For the extra money, I’ll stick with my Model 70 Featherweight!
I have been saying it for years since the carbon craze that there is no advantage except just a little on the super hot magnums which can made the barrel last a few hundred more rounds before being shot out! I have seen this on the 28 Noslers and the Weatherbys to be true first hand but other then that just give me a great quality barrel on a great action and you have a great shooting rifle most of the time at least for hunting! My short 60+ years of hunting collecting and reloading and owning hundreds of rifles and having several hundred rifles built it’s a waste of money to go carbon most of the time!
Nah, much better than a sporter barrel. I get far less shift when I twist on a suppressor. And it looks goofy when you put a suppressor on a light-weight barrel. Finally, you have to use thread adapters to even get a suppressor on a light-weight barrel.
@@TeensierPython Those are all small prices to pay, I love how people who have spent the extra money on a carbon barrel try and justify it with excuses like you've mentioned, no hate, however if they were really that amazing every company would be PUSHING them hard, they dont.
@@TeensierPythonOne of my friends in Finland let me borrow his customized SAKO 75 .308 Featherweight Hunter for several Sniper training and instructor courses there. He had dropped it into a McMillan A4 stock, which had a SAKO TRG bipod receptacle installed in the front of the stock.
He had a reflex suppressor that sleeved over that thin tapered barrel, direct-threaded. It was topped with a large IOR Mil scope. Overall weight of the system was very light because of that barrel.
At 300m, I was shooting 3cm groups with it. At 700m, I was shooting sub-MOA groups even with an elevation click change. I shot it through several multi-day courses shooting all-day with maximum hand loads of 155gr Scenars in Lapua brass and it just kept holding tight groups and POI at extended ranges.
It was by far one of my favorite bolt rifle experiences.
The benefit is that you are getting weight reduction and the stiffness/performance of a heavy steel barrel. I would put my proof barrel in a Sendero contour up against some lightweight pencil barrel any day of the week. Many people stay stuck in their ways.
I can't handle the narrator voice. 😄
Do they use carbon fiber berrels in competition shooting .
In my understanding the best (i.e. most accurate) CF barrels are those that cannot TENSION on the steel inner barrel. A Canadian CF barrel maker is one of Thebes at this style of construction.
-> Proof Research uses a "Maypole" form of wrap if diagonal, overlapping CF strands. This creates great uniformity of stress on the barrel.
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My "fanciest" rifle is a 6.5 PRC Browning X-Bolt Pro. CF stock, stainless steel barrel and action, fluted barrel, bolt and bolt handle, bronze Cerakoted and threaded muzzle with cap and a radially ported brake. IT is sub MOA accurate ONLY FOR THE FIDST 3 SHOTS. Then the barrel begins to heat up and groups open up a bit to 1.25 MOA.
Ive had about. A dozen proof carbon barreled rifles and will continue to keep using them, the weight savings, the heat distribution, the accuracy, why change whats a proven winner? I have a proof carbon 300prc that shoots .75" groups at 200 yards.
Love my Christensen Hunter Carbon with the Rem 700 action in 338 Win Mag. I added a Timney Trigger and HS Precision Detachable Magazine kit to it. Had the action glass bedded. Love the way it doesn’t shift impact as barrel warms up. I harvested my 5th Bull moose this year in Alaska.
So glad you have a detable magazine for your hunting rifle. See a lot of Bull Moose do ya in body armor or hiding behind walls? You see the Moose and say " I better rapidly detach my 20 round mag of 250gr. ELDX and load up 20 rounds of Raufoss explosice/incendiary/armorpiercing/antimaterial ammo!". Carbon fiber wrapped barrels shift more as they heat up it's called science.
what's weird carbon fiber is an insulator... Which goes against the advertisement of cooling faster.
Example, motorcycle exhaust with carbon fiber shell. It does not transfer heat as it does with aluminum if you use that as a baseline
Lost me when you said the carbon fiber pulls the heat put of the barrel 😂😂😂😂
It cost more so it MUST be better, right? It is so strong that one could even build deep sea diving vessels with it...