@@blueduck9409 really not necessary 30-06 doesn’t ruin the meat as much, those are really over kill. 30-06 really is the do it all round just get the right grains and be properly sighted in. If archers drop them with arrows and bolts modern bullets will do great too.
@@blueduck9409years ago they did a grizzly bear charging scenario to see what was the best caliber for it.they had all the usual characters there,surprise result was a 30 06 with a 220 bullet,under 40 yds bullet speed,expansion ,penetration it beat everything. Myself I used a 12guage buck shot for close quarters when hunting a bear killing my grandfather's cattle at night years and years ago lol.
@@chrisruzsa279845/70 is extremely impressive for a timber rifle. There's nothing walking around on planet earth that you cannot thump with a stout 45/70 load. It's a great companion rifle to a good '06. I myself have a couple of Model 70 rifles in 30-06, as well as a Winchester Model 1886 in 45/70.
I'm 67 years old. I was raised in Wyoming and have shot dozens of big game animals. Killing an elk is one thing. Finding it is another. I never saw any elk shot with a cup and core bullet with an exit wound. No exit wound equals no blood trail. I lost my first elk I shot with my 700 Remington 30-06. I was hunting thick timber, and using a cup and core bullet. He was only 60 yards away. No blood trail. The next year I bought a .338 Winchester magnum and some 275 grain Speer bullets. I shot a moose at 350 yards on the run. The bullet hit the shoulder, a rib, the lungs, another rib, the other shoulder and exited the other side. I shot over a dozen elk with it. Always 2 holes. One in and a large exit wound. Always a blood trail. Today there are fantastic bullets that retain 99% of their bullet weight and give fantastic penetration such as the Barnes ttsx. This brings 30 caliber bullets into deadly killing machines, but I believe the .338 Winchester magnum is the greatest elk cartridge ever.
338 Win Mag and a Barnes TTSX? I say not yes, but HELL yes! Except that---I like the slightly flatter trajectory and slightly less shoulder dislocation (LOL) of the 225 grain.
i filled my cow elk tag just a few days ago. .270 Win with 136gr Federal Terminal Ascent. she walked 5 yards and dropped dead. previous tag a couple years ago was with my 30-06, 165 gr sierra game changers, went 10 yards, dropped dead. both elk were double lunged, 250 yards w/ 270 this year, 400 yards with '06 couple years back. i opened them both up after quartering them out to see what the damage was. broken ribs, about 1.75" holes through the lungs and top of heart. absolute devastation. i have yet to find a reason to move onto the higher cost, more powder, heavier bullets, magnum primers, etc. i dunno. anyone can come up with a million scenarios for why standard cartridges like 270 or 30-06 MIGHT not work. but in my own, anecdotal experience, i have never walked away from an elk or mule deer hunt and thought "I sure wish I had something bigger". granted i hunt way more muleys than elk, but every couple years i go out, and it is the same. i personally think the .270 is the best all around cartridge ever...
@@Southpaw226 i didn't recover it this time - shot was from around 250 yards and it went clean through. broke a rib on entry and exit side, but no big bone like shoulder. i'm fairly positive i got full expansion and probably acceptable retention based on the exit hole size which was about 3x bigger than the entry. i normally reload 130 gr nosler accubonds (80-sh% retention on two muleys i've recovered them from) for that particular gun but was in a pinch this year and had to go factory. based on what i saw, i would not hesitate at all to use them again on elk.
@Southpaw226 I have a decent amount of experience with the terminal ascent out here in Montana. Its been the only bullet I’ve been shooting out of my 7 mag for the past couple years, not only cause it groups well out of my rifle, but because of its performance. The terminal ascent has been nasty and consistent on all the deer and elk that I’ve shot, at ranges from 75 yards to 750, expansion and retention is always there even when the example that @JoeJuniorEM gave takes place, there will always be a nice sized exit hole you can count on. Dont hesitate to give them a try.
If you’ll notice in the video he qualifies his choices by stating that lung shots are not as concerning as steep quartering shots. Context is important.
I am a long time fan of the 7mms as well. My brother and I departed the family tradition of just getting a .30-06 and calling it good when I got a 7mm Rem Mag and inadvertently started an arms race. My younger brother got a .300 Win to one up me, as siblings are prone to do, and for the next decade or so, we shot everything that walked or crawled with these rifles. I used a 175 gr Partition for a few years with excellent results. Seated out a little over 3.5 inches over a case full of RL22 got me 2900 fps and cratered everything it hit. I even put it lengthwise through a bull elk. That's impressive. I eventually settled on a 160 gr Accubond as the best compromise between external ballistics and terminal ballistics that could be done right in the ridiculously slow 9.25 twist Remington puts on their M700s. Eventually, my brother admitted no shoulder thumped downrange seemed to notice a difference as much as the shoulder thumped uprange. He quietly shelved the .300 when he inherited a .30-06 from my grandpa, but I still slay with that 7mm.
couldn't agree more, if you haven't already, try the Norma Oryx bullets on Elk, in my 7mm RM the 156 grain oryx bullet length is short enough that I can pack more charge and still fit my rounds into the tikka oem magazine. the new Hornady CX 150 grain bullets are great for long range shots across canyons. they're made of copper/alloy which helps with barrel life. If I were to step up to a 300, it would be a 300 WSM. which has 99% of the same ballistics of the 300 win mag, but less recoil. for elk or moose thats all a western hunter really needs, unless you're hunting grizzly
@@popinfresh3088 You're free to disagree. But your opinion only matters to the degree you can support it. An assertion presented without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.
the 300WM typically has slightly more energy than 7mm RM within a few hundred yards, but past that the 7mm RM beats 300WM in both energy and accuracy. I wouldn't exactly call that a "one up" even if that's what your brother was intending. IMO, you still got him beat. Ammo availability though... He's likely got you there
EVERY hunting channel covers the right caliber for elk each year… it’s never solved, great info, data and options, but I ALWAYS watch these!!! Fun to dig in and maybe someday (nah, never) we’ll put this to rest. Loved that you took the time to address bullets and break down how they all look and work. I agree! It’s a big deal on the type of bullet. Likely one of the best vids I’ve seen year to year on this as you covered SO many elements on caliber, bullet, weight, diameter, etc.
Very informative and realistic talk about shot angle/ path. Without the the "I only take perfect broadside shots inside 75yds" story we are so used to hearing. Just straight facts and discussing real scenarios.
To only take perfect shots you have to be willing to let some animals walk away. It can be done, but you may not get to fill your tag. I only take quality shots on deer because we have an overpopulation in Texas, and I'll get plenty of opportunities. Elk is a whole different game. I'd be hunting out of state and only have a few days to fill my tag. I would not be carrying a 6.5.
Yes, unusually well reasoned and explained. The anatomical diagrams and accompanying description really clarified *why* your mileage may vary with a given cartridge on elk, depending on the angle the animal presents itself with.
My last Montana whitetail buck was taken with a .308 win at about 20 feet(closest to date) , sitting on the ground with my back against a tree, rifle rested on a tripod trigger stick in the Yellowstone river bottoms near Glendive , same .308 used on a nice Wyoming Antelope buck taken at 324 yards plus a couple steps just north of Medicine Bow, he was walking slowy quartering away and I had a gusty 35mph+ winds to contend with, same tripod trigger rest only kneeling to stay above the sage, It took me three stalks to get that close, the first two blown stalks just pushed him and his three does out past 500yds twice, fact is, you should always try to close the distance, you owe it to the animal, that same .308 handloaded with 165gr. Gmx's (none recovered, all exited) has also taken 5 California blacktail bucks, one at 30feet the others at 87yds, 100yds, 152yds and 235yds , would take any North American game if you do your part, and close the distance, that's the challenge!
My personal choice is 338Winmag with A-frames 1st. 7mm mag with 175's 2nd. If hunting in thick timber I use a 348 winchester with 200 A frames. No issues just results.
I have a Weatherby Mark V chambered in 30.06 with a 24” barrel and I shoot Barnes 175 grain LRX bullets. According to the ballistics it has more velocity/energy at 700 yards than a .300 Winchester Magnum loaded with 150 gr. Remington Core Lokt does!!!! I’m not saying I’d ever shoot that far at an elk but it’s amazing to me that this non magnum round is a real world beater!!!! I haven’t taken an elk yet but hopefully next season will have a little different ending!!!! I appreciate your insight on these cartridges…. Thanks again and God bless
I have taken elk with a bow, muzzle loader, and rifle. Mostly with rifles. A few with the 270, the rest, about thirty with the 338. As an elk slayer, the 338 does nothing but SHINE. Shot placement is always critical. And getting in range, under 300 yards is best. 😀
@@Templetons You're fine with .270 Winchester. Shoot a 150gr Nosler Accubond LR or 130gr E-Tip (solid copper bullet), or a Hornady 145gr ELD-X, 130gr CX, or 130gr GMX. Do a rifle set-up checklist: * Bases and rings Loc-tited * Quality scope zeroed with proper eye relief for field positions * Get Trigger time from field positions common for your hunting area * Keep the shot within 300yds * If you zero 1.3" high at 100yds, you'll have a good point blank or no-hold zero to 300yds * Study elk vital zone anatomy from different angles * It usually takes at least a year in advance studying and scouting the area you'll be hunting to learn their eating and bedding habits, so don't have unrealistic expectations. They have superb senses of smell and are great at avoiding people, especially during season.
With the right bullet, the .308 Win can do okay in the right hands when it comes to Eland. But if I was building a tailor made cartridge for Eland hunting it would closely resemble the terminal performance of an 8mm mag or .338 Win
Very good explanation, Sir. We all have our favorites for our own reasons, but breaking down the "Why's" is very important. I stick with the most gun I can shoot accurately. Keep up the good work!
Been wanting 1 of those 2 for years. Hard to go wrong. If i ever find a Rem 7600 in Whelen, i will jump on it. To get a 9.3, i would probably have to have an -06 length action rebarreled. I think CZ chambered it for a few years also. There is a small cult of people in AK who rebarreled Garands to 35 Whelen also. I assume an adjustable gas plug is necessary. Midway has shown the Walther made barrels in stock....
Barnes 250gr TTSX in my 9.3x62 absolutely floored a nice 6x5 bull elk with a complete pass through on a high shoulder shot. Lasered 300yd shot. Use enough gun with quality bullets!
Good to see another 9.3x62 user. Love mine and nothing ever needs a second round. Those big bullets are just the perfect combination of weight, velocity and sectional density. Designed to kill things that can kill you in Africa way back in 1905, I think it is perfect for anything in North America.
@@wallyzworld7108 must confess, I was on a knee and while cow calling to stop the bull, I made a bad shot. I hit him just in front and high of the right rear hind quarter (spine) and absolutely floored him. While working the bolt he regained his feet and went uphill to a clump of brush and stood broadside, that's when he caught one in the shoulder and was down for keeps. 300yds and both 250gr TTSX's were complete pass throughs! I'm convinced I would have lost that bull if not for the raw power of this cartridge. My 9.3x62 is a model 111 Savage that started as a 30-06, and was rebored by Jes Ocumpaugh of Jes reboring in Oregon. Simply wonderful accuracy and consistently prints 1/2 moa with any developed load you put through it. Puzzles me why hunters are wasting money on 'the latest and greatest' fads when this 118 year old round is so effective and deadly for anything on the planet. Rock on 9.3x62, and happy hunting!
I like the good old 9.3x62, but with your high shoulder shot a 6.5 Creedmoor would have done the same thing. I assume you used a longer barrel, but out of a 20’ that TTSX would have been at 1900 ft/s at 300 yards. Slower than at least I would be comfortable with a TTSX. I have loaded a 250 grain Accubond, slightly better BC and better expansion at lower velocities.
@@nikos6220 1996 fps, and 2211 ft-lbs of energy. Plenty of velocity and reliable expansion down to 1600fps. Got no problem with anything 6.5, and I don't think it would have had the same effect on a high shoulder shot. In fact the 9.3 was probably packing more energy at 300 yds than any 6.5 does at 100yds!
@@Drivapete thx for the stats. From all tests I have seen I would doubt the down to 1600 fps marketing on the TTSX. But hey, great that that it works for you. The 6.5 127 TX Long Range would be at 2300 fps and 1500 ft-lb, plenty speed and energy and for that hard bullet to get through the bone and make that CNS hit
As an advocate of the .338 Win for elk, I love how many people have mentioned it in the comments. However, the whole point of the video was choosing the right bullet regardless of caliber or the cartridge delivering it. There are a lot of great elk cartridges in the 8mm - .375 class not mentioned, and honestly, bullet selection is less critical for these medium bores. Typically, traditional cup and core bullets will work wonders in these calibers and feed them a bonded core or a mono metal and it bumps them up to an even higher pay grade. Not mentioned, because in this discussion, bullet selection for the medium bores- not so critical. And now I have to add… I own a few 30-06’s, a 300 Win, 300 WBY and a couple .338 Win’s, a .375 H&H and a few big bores. When I leave the house on a rifle elk hunt, I’m grabbing one of my 2 .338’s stuffed with 210 and 225 Barnes ttsx’s. And when a new hunter asks what they buy to hunt elk, my answer is always “30-06 w/ 180 grain bonded core or mono metal bullet”.
A hand loaded 8mm mauser is a fantastic hunting cartrudge. The european made ammo is very good too. The factory loaded american 8mm mauser is anemic and not very good for anything bigger than white tail deer. I have had very good success with the old mauser.
8mm Remington Magnum with 220 gr Sierra GameKings. Yes, it's a cup-and-core bullet, but a tough one designed specifically to hold together at 8mm Rem Mag velocities.
@Nick-wn1xw True. It's a great cartridge that never caught on. 1. It filled basically the same niche as the already established 338 Win Mag and requires a longer action than the 338 WM. 2. The recoil is a bit more than most people want to deal with (but so is the 338 WM). 3. Metric calibers, other than 7mm, had a hard time gaining a foothold in the US. 4. As you said, Remington didn't give it much support. A few years ago it took me two weeks of emailing back and forth to get a straight answer from Remington on whether or not the Custom Shop will still make one on request. (They will.) By that time I'd bought a used one on gunbroker.
@Nick-wn1xw I like cartridges that are a little off the beaten path. It's not like I set out to get something weird that not many people use. I just couldn't decide if I wanted a 338 Win Mag or a 300 Win Mag, and wanted something in between. 8mm - .323 - is exactly halfway in between .308 and .338. So there were exactly 3 cartridges in that caliber that would push an 8mm bullet at the velocity I wanted, 325 WSM (questionable on velocity with long, heavy bullets unless you chamber it in a longer action to seat the bullet out long like the competition guys do with 300 WSM), 8mm RM (maybe a tiny bit overkill for my goals - but I'm splitting hairs because there's not really THAT much difference between these three cartridges), and 8x68mm S Schuler (impossible to get ammo or brass at that time, though brass is somewhat available now) .
Yep. I know of several deer that were shot with the 6.5 that didn’t get recovered. My cousin has thermal drone recovery business. I was amazed at how many calls he got. Muzzleloader calls were bad, but honestly smaller caliber rifles were almost as bad. With 6.5 being at the top. Shot placement is even more critical with that round.
Excellent video . I put loads of thought into bullet construction so this was nice to see . The terminal ascent is excellent as is the barns and partition . I’m partial to my custom 35 Whelen. 225 accubonds leaving the muzzle at 2800 . I normally hunt Timbers but I can reach out to 400 yards with it quite confidently . Very rare for me to have to shoot that far tho .up here in the north of British Columbia it is not uncommon for these animals to weigh upwards of 1000 pounds . The farther north you go , the larger the genetics are body wise . Hit them hard with good bullets folks . Don’t drink the Berger coolaid using target bullets on these animals . You may get the job done with a perfect broadside but anything else will be an absolute nightmare and horrible for the animal .
My personal picks for elk are the 338 Winchester mag and the 300 PRC. Both cartridges carry plenty of energy all the way to the target. Even out to 300+ yards.
I've shot several elk with a 175 gr Partition over RL-22 at just north of 2900 fps, and it catered every single one of them like a megalomaniacal cartoon coyote dropped an ACME safe on it. I've punched that bullet lengthwise through a bull, in my younger days, when I wasn't as patient. South end of a north-bound bull in cover. I caught him as he paused just a second cresting a ridge. Hit right at the tailbone, exited moddle of the chest just under the windpipe. Ass end hit the ground so fast he rolled over backwards then flopped head over heels until he got caught up against a tree. Amazing bullet for typical hunting distances. When I started to push my limits, I moved over to the 160 gr Accubond. Which did really well, but I never quite had the confidence in it to really break shit and put em down like the 175 gr Partition. Something about that sectional density and velocity from an expanding bullet that just flattens critters.
We hunt an area that is right next to a preserve. Anything that crosses the line after being shot is a problem. Compounding the problem is the elk may show up on that property for a couple of days during hunting season and then they are gone. They also don’t have a specific location they enter from, but we found that a rifle that was good for 400 yards or so would vastly improve the odds. Our combined 50 years of experience brought us to pretty much the same conclusion that you have determined, and we eventually settled on the .338 Win Mag. It fits our requirements and hits hard, minimizing our line issues.
That’s simply not true. I think a better way to make your point is to say a 30-06 shooting at least a 165 grain high quality bullet will kill a bull with a quartering or shoulder shot just as well as 30 caliber magnum inside, say, 350 yards.
My 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, 300 RUM and 7mm Rem Mag all outperform the old 30-06 in every category. And I'd never use my 25-06 on anything larger than a mule deer with so many other better cartridges available. The 30-06 is a good all around cartridge but not great in any one area.
I bought a Savage M110 “Long Range Hunter” in 300 WSM back in 2019 for western hunting including elk, to complement my long time only reliable .270 Win. Sadly I have yet to make it out west since my tag a long venture in 2019 to Idaho for mule deer 🦌 with my brother and Dad. I am a longtime listener and patron to the Backcountry Hunting podcast and it’s definitely worth a follow. I have heard Joseph break this down many times and it is good to see it in video format. Nice illustration of an elk from above. At first I thought that it was a picture of a basset hound held up vertically like that.
Any decent hunter with a 280, 7mm mag 30-06 or 300 mag will do great. Problem is all the elk being wounded by wanna be snipers that buy fancy gear but don't know how to hunt. Nothing wrong with fancy cartridge and gear but its not a substitute for hunting and shooting ability. A good hunter will be successful with a 30 30 or even a bow.
Agreed. I would even argue the ballistics of today's modern cartridges are creating more unethical hunting practices than ever because too many people these days think they can now take animals at 600, 700 or 800+ yds. that far exceeds their abilities as a shooter, which only leads to more maimed animals and slow, painful, unethical deaths. I watch a lot of these long distance "hunting" videos and in way too many cases I see really bad shot placement or even complete misses. Some of these guys may be able to hit a target at 800+ yds. from a bench, but it's a WHOLE other story being able to hit the vitals of an animal with an elevated heart rate after hiking up mountainous inclines, then stopping and calming yourself enough to take an ethical shot. That's the problem with range shooting, it doesn't take into account all the other physical factors of real world hunting situations. But yeah, I just see too much unethical hunting these days and today's modern ballistics are making too many people feel like they're some kind of hero sniper. It's not a good thing for hunting ethics, or the animals.
@@PlumcrazinessAlso, many people nowadays are buying bullets that have pretty bad terminal performance in their pursuit of high BC even though they most-likely won’t be making any shots beyond 400 yds.
@@sentineloffreedom Yep, that's another issue as well. Just like how I recently came across an unbelievably unethical commenter here on TH-cam who condoned shooting at a moose at 585 yds. with 6.5 Creedmoor...using match ammo. Some people just have no right shooting at living animals with such an astounding lack of judgement or care. But yes, selecting the proper bullet construction for the species of game being hunted, the distance being shot at, as well as the impact velocity is incredibly important. Being mindful of choosing the proper bullet construction before any given hunt is indeed a part of being an ethical hunter. 👍
Very educational. I’m in Appalachia and hunt with a 35 rem. Looking to get a long range deer rifle with hopes of going elk hunting someday. Most informative video on TH-cam.
Excellent presentation. Great information. Only addition I would make is adding the 338 Win Mag. More frontal diameter. I have a 30-338 custom that is great, but very obscure. Gets the job done with 180 partitions
If I ever got the chance to hunt Elk, it would come down to three rifles that I own. First is my Ruger 77MKII All Weather in 30.06. I have hunted deer with this rifle for 28 years. It has the horrible boat paddle stock but was heavily modified before I ever shot it. The bolt face was trued, the action glass bedded, the barrel free floated, and the trigger adjust to 2.5 lbs. I can say I have never missed a deer. Granted, my hunting in WV has been limited to 200 yards. My second choice would be a Savage 110 hunter in 300 win mag. I have used it once, taken one deer. My final choice would be my Remington 798 in 375 HH Mag. It is a shoulder thumper. If I came down to it I would use the Ruger in 30.06. It is "my rifle". I am extremely comfortable with it. I know what it can, and cannot do.
Excellent presentation. I am a huge fan of the Nosler accubond bullet. For moose elk and bear I like the 180g from the 300 Weatherby, the 300 wsm, or the 300 win mag. They are the ones I have and the ones I trust but there are many other great options available
Thank you Joseph for the very informative discussion on elk cartridges. Too many times the focus ends up on the size of the case and not on the bullet construction and the effective range of that bullet at a given velocity.
@@johnbaldwin351 I can shoot long distance due to my background and 400 is about what I limit to. Not so much killing it it is finding it. Could run and you could loose sight if shooting from ridge to ridge walking up on it.
@@johnbaldwin351 Agreed. I cringe every time a presenter talks about long shots they make, without throwing in a disclaimer. Unless you have practiced and really know the drop, few people have any business shooting beyond 300, imho, because trajectories start to vary a lot after 300. Plus it is too far to walk. Lol
Great video. Not going to lie the top view elk looked like a hound with its tongue out and mo ears. Love the channel and videos, can never learn enough about bullets, guns, and the outdoors
Great video, with a logical and pedagocical build up to explaining preference of bullets and cartridges. With respect to the "Scandinavian myth" , I am from Scandinavia and have 30 years+ experience from hunting elk and moose in Scandinavia. For starters, elk and moose in Scandinavia are smaller than what you will typically find in North America and what is mentioned in the video. "Maximum" slaughter weigth for a bull elk will typically be around 150 kg / 300 pounds. "Maximum" slaugther weigth for a bull moose will typically be around 350 kg / 700 pounds. Hunting in Scandinavia is 95% hunting in the woods (using dogs for moose) and stalking for elk, which implies that most kills are done at ranges below 200 yards, Hunting for reindeer (caribou) takes place in the mountains (above the tree line), where the shooting range can be much longer - as far as you dare, but then again, a reindeer is not considered a hard kill. This explains why the 6,5x55 is a widely used and succesful cartridge selection for elk and moose hunting in Scandinavia. Of course there are some historically availability factors to consider as well. There is a very large and thorough research made in Sweden, some years ago, on moose hunting. This research studied how far a moose will run after the first shot. The study includes more than 10 000 kills. The average distance from shot to fall was something like 120 meters/yards. The kills was predomenantely done using the 6,5 x 55 caliber, more than 99% Other calibers, (read more powerful) could not demonstrate a shorter running distance from shot to fall. It must be admitted though, that the use of "stronger" calibers was statistically so scarce, that any effect cannot be read from this study.
Thank you for your video on elk hunting and cartridges. What you said made a lot of sense. In the past I had planned for an elk hunt but I no longer have the physical capability to do so because of a serious back injury. In fact it seriously affects my deer hunting. But I still like to read/see videos on hunting of elk. You gave some practical advice. Couldn't cover everything but covered the basics. You mentioned long range shooting. After helping at the local range during sighting-in days before deer season, long range for most hunters, including some who said they were either past elk hunters or on their way, is 200-300 yards at the most. For some 100 yds is too long. Fortunately none of those had been elk hunters. There are very few hunters who could reliably hit an elk at any range approaching 400+ yds. I really think there should be much less emphasis on hitting at long range which seems to be all the rage now. Seen too many people purchase rifles/scopes which make long range hits possible but they lack the experience and knowledge to do more than hit them on the fringes if at all. Sure it is their fault, but too many magazines and videos make long range hitting seem easy and the norm. I suspect there are too many wounded elk, and deer, left in the hunting fields because of attempted long range shooting. Know of it with deer, just no experience in the elk fields. Thank again for this and other videos you have made. Have a good day.
Excellent video and I appreciate the fact that he talked about frontal area. Kinda surprised he didn't mention the 338 Win or 340 Wby or the 35 Whelen.
They aren't new sexy beltless magnums that shoot target bullets with a .700 bc. Why would outdoor writers care for them? Load a 200gr badlands bulldozer in a 340 and you have 270 win 130gr trajectories with a lot more oomph behind it
+1 for mentioning target bullets. I find it completely ironic that folks are using target bullets on large game, when the entire premium bullet industry in America was started by a truck driver whose bullets fired from a 300 H&H Magnum failed to penetrate the hide of a mud caked moose.
@@highplainsdrifter9631 Amen! That always grinds my gears as well. Not to mention 95% or more of all hunters do not have anywhere near the skill to make use of long range, high BC bullets. They ought concentrate much more on learning how to get within a decent range of 400 yards or less, instead. There's enough slobs in our sport already, we don't need to give the anti's even more to use against us with long range hope shots and wounded animals.
that's because the constant urination of birth control into the water supply has resulted in 1911's being made in 9mm and the introduction of cartridges specifically for women like 6.5 creedmoore.
Great video. Use the right bullet and the largest most powerful cartridge I have for elk. I've never shot an elk so I'd be listening to advice from someone that has. Like in this video. Solid copper or Nosler partition. 300WSM or 7PRC would be my choice from what I currently own.
Agreed, with 1 exception. If you're not in grizzly country, and capable of shots beyond 400 yds, yet sensitive to heavy recoil, you may want to consider the .270 Win. over the 30-06. The .270 will give you approximately 100- 150 yds more range when you consider not only energy but also the velocity you need for proper expansion, due to better BC.
Shooting big game past 500 is probably on the edge of most people's ability to make an accurate and ethical harvest. Shot placement is always key, larger and faster projectiles can make up some of that, but a well placed shot with good penetration will get the job done.
Hello from Alabama. No elk here. The .45-70 has plenty of punch for deer, hogs and black bears. I've used it for moose a few times. Placing the shot is important for bringing down what is aimed at. Not sure how it would be against an elk.
Range is the issue. I've been bow hunting wapiti for my whole hunting life and getting close is the hard part. Elk are smarter than deer or moose so they keep their distance and entire herds will evacuate 10+ miles off once they get spooked. The 45-70 low velocity and high drag present real problems.
The 45-70 govt has killed a lot of elk. The old timers had solid lead bullets 405 grain or 500 grain, and inside 200 yards it is devestating on elk. That was with black powder loads. Today, modern smokless powder and modern rifles make it even more lethal. Inside 200 yards its hard to beat.
It's so much fun to read the comments of the "The Best _____ for______" videos....everyone is an expert. My favorite are the ones that put forth an opinion, but will defend it as a fact until their last breath.
Oh, I forgot to mention that when hunting lesser elk (for food), and big Mule Deer, I favored my levergun (Browning) in 7mm RemMag for the flatter trajectory.
Much appreciated, Joseph. I respect your experiences and what you've learned and shared here. I have a 270 Win, but i am looking for a 338-06 or 35 Whelen for my Elk and Moose hunting upcoming...time is running out...
@@camwinston5248a 200 gr projection has a very marginal density for Elk. It’s the equivalent of 150 gr for 30 cal. It’s funny how some folks just don’t understand sectional density. I also don’t know how you would get 2900 fps with a 200 gr projectile from a 35 Whelen. My Hornady manual tops out wt 2650 fps
@@peterluttgens3364why on earth would he buy a 6.8 Western when he already has a 270? You buy something in 277 or 7mm caliber as a general purpose hunting rifle. Moving from 270 to 6.8 Western isn’t enough of a bump up to warrant owning two rifles in those cartridges or selling one to buy the other. Also the 6.8 Western is in life support right now as a viable cartridge. You aren’t going to be able to find ammo at most places If you’re specifically looking for an Elk rifle you may as well step up to something bigger. I just don’t understand the folks that have a bunch of overlap with their rifle collection. I find that a combination of a 270 Win and 300 Win Mag is tough to beat. They compliment each other really well. The 270 is a fantastic deer, pronghorn, sheep/goat cartridge that shoots flat and bucks the wind well. You can use it for Elk with the right bullet in a pinch. Then when you need something with a little more authority for really big game you have your 300 Win Mag. They are both available anywhere and have similar trajectories so you can really master your drop charts. They are different enough in capabilities to warrant owning rifles in each caliber yet are similar enough for a smooth transition back and forth.
@@strat1080 projectile type,powder selection and barrel length, and 200grs weight is 200grs. You are correct about SD but an elk or anything else could care less about this or whether the hunter is wearing camo or a Santa Claus suit while they are being shot at..there isn't anything on the N.A. continent that can stand up to that load..Or your max load of 2650 either..be good out too 300yd, but if hunting correctly and in most situations the distance would be less than half of this,especially if hunting in the timber..But if we are worried about all this we can easily hop this up too 250grs with the same type of projectile. Which btw you can squeeze 2600fps out off...T-Rex anyone?..and btw thousands of elk an many moose have been taken with a 150gr in 30/06. Not my first choice but still. Have a great day 🎅
I'm surprised there's no 338s in the line up. I still remember thee decades ago all the gun and hunting magazines were touting 338s as the proper elk cartridge.
last 2 elk were cows, we took with 30 Cal .308 165 gr InterLock® BTSP, 30-06s one was 35feet, last was 75 ft. My one son was literally 25 foot and pulled 460 magnum, but let my other so take the long shot.
Hi Joseph I enjoy.listining to your topics , and find you and Rons approach to hunting information informative and well put together i never feel i need to skip ahead listing to you Blokes. Cant agree more in your explanation of cartridge choices and i think people get caught up in a specific catraridge is better than another but like you said its only the vessel / launch pad . By changing the bullet construction you change the wound channel, giving you a chance to hit vitals with deeper penetration. I always picture in my head that the rear half of a animal is filled with mud and the simple cup and core bullets would fall apart going through this stuff before hitting vitals . Even though what you have said is common sense we all need to be reminded on Facts and laid out so nicely. 👍👍
Fantastic presentation...well done! I love these campfire/gun store conversations as well. Elk guide and hunter for many years. Many hunters and many elk. 24 and 25 calibers are minimal at best. Be careful with terrain and tracking conditions. 26 and 27 calibers are adequate in most circumstances. Cow elk and young bulls are not big bulls. Huge difference. 7 mag (and PRC/ Wthby/ STW) are better only because of bigger bullets and more velocity. Shine at long range due to high BC. Thirty cals are awesome. My personal favorite is the 300 Win with 200 gr Nosler or Terminal Ascent. Use 165 gr Barnes or Hornady CX when combo hunt for mule deer just because they shoot a little flatter. Variety of 180 gr are great! Nothing else has the immediate effectiveness on elk as the 338-375 class rifles, 225-300 gr bullets. That is IF!!! the hunter can handle the recoil and shoot well. I've had hunters with 340 Wthby's that should have had an '06 or 270 Win. Big rifles do not make good long range rifles as the big bullets drop off the table beyond 450 yds or so. Plus they pound you from the prone position. If you can get closer, do so, and that puts a lot of modest cartridges into the very effective class. It is easy (at home) to say you'll only shoot 200 yds. In practice, my hunters will take the 450 yard shot when that is all they are going to get. As an aside...inside 100 yards the 45-70 is great and 54 cal muzzleloader with 425 gr Great Plains bullet puts elk down where you can still see them. Thanks for the great videos!
What about rounds like the 8mm,338s and 358s . I would not call them ultra long range rounds but the 8mm mag, 338 win mag/340 wby mag and 35 Whelen make a great elk gun to moderate range. My top pics would be 338 win mag with 225-250 gr bullets and 35 Whelen with same bullet weight and both with 225gr Barnes TSX/TTSX would be devastating on a elk and any angle within practical hunting ranges for each cartridge . Not sure why there were not mentioned but good video non the less 👍🏻
30-06 with a 210 grain nosler accubond LR bullet At 2600 fps has 1748 ft lbs of energy at 600 yds at 3000 ft of hunting elevation Only 1 in 10 twist rate required for stability It is a long range elk hammer load without magnum recoil Has more than enough energy At longer distances
@OURICO45 1 in 11 twist shows marginal stability with a 210 grain accuubond with a 1 in 10 shows full stability at 1000 ft elevation and higher Most hunters dont hunt at sea level though lol In fact my hunting elevation for deer elk moose usually far surpasses 1000 ft of elevation The 190 grain accubond long ramge bullet is your ticket in 1in 11 twist for engaging elk Out to 600 yds . they expand reliably down to 1300 fps and at 600 yds the 190 grain is flying at over 1900 fps still so you're golden .there . It still has over 1600 + ft lbs of energy at 600 yds Well over 1400+ ft lbs energu at 700 yds Personally I limit myself to 600 yds max for hunting but that's just me. Spin drift wind drift etc become way more exageratted the further the distance .I don't like going there with a lightweight mountain rifle . Mostly I don't shoot past 300 yds in hunting But knowing you have the ability to take that very long shot is nice to know if the opportunity ever arises Hope this helps
My guess for the lack of .338 and larger has to do with recoil. I love my 338WM and 340 WBY but they are hard on the shoulders especially the 340. Now i understand that for hunting 1-2 (hopefully) shots the last thing you think of is recoil but from the bench that is an issue. Now on a side note its hard to ignore a 225 or 250gn bullet at 2550-3k (ish) hitting an animal.
Even a well constructed 200gr 338 bullet is a force to reckon with. Out of a 340 wby the badlands bulldozer gives 270 130gr trajectory (sometimes even better) with a lot of penetration power on impact
No matter what caliber you choose for whatever. Know how it performs. The bullets I shoot need 1300 FPS minimum for proper expansion. So as long as my bullets are doing 1300 FPS plus, I’m taking the shot. I don’t look for the long range shot, I try to shorten the gap as much as possible. If I’m going to pay some $5-$10K for a hunt then don’t tell me that shot is to far or I’m underguned. I have hunted and guided for over 30 years and I’m still learning. Trial and error are needed to better yourself at anything. Know your limits on what you and your weapon of choice is. If you make a perfect shot at 1,000 plus yards at a elk, deer, bear whatever and it drops doesn’t mean you can do it every day all day every time. The condition changes every hunt, so must you. That 1000 yard shot you just did yesterday at that deer and it dropped in its tracks doesn’t mean you doing it today. Yesterday there was a 5 mph wind and today it’s a 20 mph wind with up to 40 mph wind gust. So shorten the gap.
great reasons for the 6.8 western except for not an easy reloading option or wide range of bullet options in factory ammunition. can see how a 280AI, 7 Mag or PRC option makes more sense without crossing over into recoil issues for many. Practice so you can put the right bullet in a good place is the key.
I am glad you mentioned the fact the Swede’s/Finnish shoot/hunt mostly on driven Moose! However the 6.5x55 you mentioned is used for Moose but most will use a bigger caliber. By Swedish law the 6.5 Swede is the smallest caliber allowed for Moose hunting, bullet weight has to be over 155 grain (10 gram). The 80 meter distance we shoot driven/running Moose is correct and stretching to about 120 meters. Preferred bullet weight is around 185 to 190 grain for 30-06, 8x57js and 9.3x62 although the last mentioned comes with heavier bullets .
The interesting thing about the Scandinavian Moose hunting survey isn’t the distances to the animals, but the distances that the animals took after being shot. The 6.5mm and 7mms averaged shorter travel distances from the shot than .30 bores, which is counter-intuitive. We accept that all of the animals were shot at distances that are common in Scandinavia, which covers a wide range of shot opportunities. In Finland, the distances are short due to heavy forest. In Sweden, it can be heavy forest and some light mountainous terrain/hills. In Norway, you have longer shot opportunities and very drastic changes in elevation and relief.
@@LRRPFco52 , I have not seen this survey but take your word for it! In my personal opinion and experience of hunting driven Moose for over 40 years contradicts the survey, anyway it is not of importance what I think, every hunter should use a caliber to their choosing to make a ethical kill. Regarding the distances we shoot running Moose has more to do what is ethical and responsible to make a clean kill at distance then the terrain . All the shooting ranges where most hunters practice before the Moose hunting season are on a moving Moose target at 80 meters!
@@paulfixdivcars5614 I had to take that same test in Finland to get my hunting license there. There's a moving target track with a large moose target that runs back and forth. I used a .308 SAKO 75 for the test. Last I heard, too many older hunters couldn't pass the test, so it was amended to a static test shooting from a table. I think it's easier to make your hits with 6.5mm and 7mm, so the shots average closer to the point of aim and go through the vitals more often. Lapua and Norma make 156gr expanding bullets for the 6.5x55 as well, which produce devastating wound channels. I like looking at large data sets that include numbers that no single person could ever accumulate in a lifetime, then trying to understand why the data is what it is. There's also a South Carolina deer-hunting and caliber survey that looked at travel distances from the shot. .25-06 and .270 Win did a lot better than .243 or the .30 bores in that one, if I recall it correctly. It didn't have any 6.5mm samples in it.
Great video. The anatomy discussion and real world shot angles was helpful, since i have never hunted them. Excelment points about bullet construction. I follow ballistics on the intellectual level. Great to have your real world observations and experience added in. I have been meaning to say this- you are an excellent host and commentator. I have enjoyed your writing very much also. You have a wealth of experience that i will never obtain. Had a deep interest in the 6.5 PRC, but i am going to go with the 7mm-08 for now, mainly because of the variety of factory ammo. No room for my reloading stuff in my tiny place. I hope to remedy that this year. Also, i have several boxes of 7mm bullets for my 7x57 (1895 Chilean, Ludwig Loewe 1908) that i never got to load. So there was that. Will probably start with Nosler 140 B Tips. I need to use them up anyway, since we can't use lead for hunting anymore here in the PR of Kalifornia. If i ever hunt. The heavy 173/175 gr ones i will save for traditional military style practice loads for the 7x57. I will probably get the PRC later, when i can handload, because i am somewhat interested in competition. And there is always Appleseed with my Garand or one of my other milsurps (303 British or M1917 US Enfield, anyone?😁).
Very interesting and informative video. I have used my 280 Remington on everything from coyotes to moose and bears. 150 gr Nosler ballistic tips for animals up to Whitetails in size and 160 grain partitions for everything larger(and tougher). The 280 doesn’t kick me out from under my hat and kills just fine out to over 300 yards or so.
One thing guides have recommended for elk hunting is to start scouting the area you will hunt a year in advance and don’t leave that area if you aren’t successful your first year.
I was waiting for it, and then you said it.. KEEP SHOOTING!! Use whatever gun that you can keep on target for multiple accurate shots. Good video, thanks!
would a Nosler accubond bonded long range ABLR in 165 Gr. work ? I have mine moving at about 2900 to almost 3000 FPS . this is in a 270 cal. 1/8 twist 28 in barrel .
I am from South Africa and shoot a 7mm Rem mag 7x57 243 and 375 and to be honest I can use my 7 mag for everything from a springbok to a eland if it is close enough i pop it between the eyes or behind the ear but when past 200 tuck that 160 behind the shoulders and nothing has left me yet
Jury is still out on this, Timberghost. It's a great round loved by those who've tried it, but unless and until more brands chamber for it and build ammo for it, it will likely continue living on the edge. I've fired it twice at game, collecting a spectacular old whitetail and a tall, heavily horned pronghorn buck.
ADG is looking into producing brass for the 6.8 Western. I had heard rumors that they will start producing later on this year. So I emailed them and they just responded that it’s at the top of their list for new cartridges being considered. ADG has a great reputation for quality brass. This could be huge for the 6.8 Western. In the mean time, I’ve ordered my ammo from Choice Ammunition and Pendleton Ammunition. They both load their own ammunition, so the quality is excellent.
I run a .30-06 for all large game on North America. It works with the right load and bullet.
It will work even on the toughest African game too.
The only thing its not good for is small game lol.
Id want bigger for bear and moose. Like 45-70 govt with 405 grain bullets or 500 grain bullets.
@@blueduck9409 really not necessary 30-06 doesn’t ruin the meat as much, those are really over kill. 30-06 really is the do it all round just get the right grains and be properly sighted in.
If archers drop them with arrows and bolts modern bullets will do great too.
@@blueduck9409years ago they did a grizzly bear charging scenario to see what was the best caliber for it.they had all the usual characters there,surprise result was a 30 06 with a 220 bullet,under 40 yds bullet speed,expansion ,penetration it beat everything. Myself I used a 12guage buck shot for close quarters when hunting a bear killing my grandfather's cattle at night years and years ago lol.
@@chrisruzsa279845/70 is extremely impressive for a timber rifle. There's nothing walking around on planet earth that you cannot thump with a stout 45/70 load. It's a great companion rifle to a good '06. I myself have a couple of Model 70 rifles in 30-06, as well as a Winchester Model 1886 in 45/70.
I'm 67 years old. I was raised in Wyoming and have shot dozens of big game animals. Killing an elk is one thing. Finding it is another. I never saw any elk shot with a cup and core bullet with an exit wound. No exit wound equals no blood trail. I lost my first elk I shot with my 700 Remington 30-06. I was hunting thick timber, and using a cup and core bullet. He was only 60 yards away. No blood trail. The next year I bought a .338 Winchester magnum and some 275 grain Speer bullets. I shot a moose at 350 yards on the run. The bullet hit the shoulder, a rib, the lungs, another rib, the other shoulder and exited the other side. I shot over a dozen elk with it. Always 2 holes. One in and a large exit wound. Always a blood trail. Today there are fantastic bullets that retain 99% of their bullet weight and give fantastic penetration such as the Barnes ttsx. This brings 30 caliber bullets into deadly killing machines, but I believe the .338 Winchester magnum is the greatest elk cartridge ever.
338 Win Mag and a Barnes TTSX? I say not yes, but HELL yes! Except that---I like the slightly flatter trajectory and slightly less shoulder dislocation (LOL) of the 225 grain.
I love the 338. It just gets it done
340 Weatherby, IMR-7828, 225 grain Nosler bullets: elk steaks, chops, and burger.
i filled my cow elk tag just a few days ago. .270 Win with 136gr Federal Terminal Ascent. she walked 5 yards and dropped dead. previous tag a couple years ago was with my 30-06, 165 gr sierra game changers, went 10 yards, dropped dead. both elk were double lunged, 250 yards w/ 270 this year, 400 yards with '06 couple years back. i opened them both up after quartering them out to see what the damage was. broken ribs, about 1.75" holes through the lungs and top of heart. absolute devastation. i have yet to find a reason to move onto the higher cost, more powder, heavier bullets, magnum primers, etc. i dunno. anyone can come up with a million scenarios for why standard cartridges like 270 or 30-06 MIGHT not work. but in my own, anecdotal experience, i have never walked away from an elk or mule deer hunt and thought "I sure wish I had something bigger". granted i hunt way more muleys than elk, but every couple years i go out, and it is the same. i personally think the .270 is the best all around cartridge ever...
Did you recover the terminal ascent? Did it hit big bone? I have them for my 270 but haven’t had a chance to try them on game
@@Southpaw226 i didn't recover it this time - shot was from around 250 yards and it went clean through. broke a rib on entry and exit side, but no big bone like shoulder. i'm fairly positive i got full expansion and probably acceptable retention based on the exit hole size which was about 3x bigger than the entry. i normally reload 130 gr nosler accubonds (80-sh% retention on two muleys i've recovered them from) for that particular gun but was in a pinch this year and had to go factory. based on what i saw, i would not hesitate at all to use them again on elk.
@@JoeJuniorEM right on, thanks
@Southpaw226 I have a decent amount of experience with the terminal ascent out here in Montana. Its been the only bullet I’ve been shooting out of my 7 mag for the past couple years, not only cause it groups well out of my rifle, but because of its performance. The terminal ascent has been nasty and consistent on all the deer and elk that I’ve shot, at ranges from 75 yards to 750, expansion and retention is always there even when the example that @JoeJuniorEM gave takes place, there will always be a nice sized exit hole you can count on. Dont hesitate to give them a try.
If you’ll notice in the video he qualifies his choices by stating that lung shots are not as concerning as steep quartering shots. Context is important.
Nosler 160gr accubond out of my savage 7mm mag, been putting one shot and done elk in my freezer. Cheers from BC 🇨🇦
I am a long time fan of the 7mms as well. My brother and I departed the family tradition of just getting a .30-06 and calling it good when I got a 7mm Rem Mag and inadvertently started an arms race. My younger brother got a .300 Win to one up me, as siblings are prone to do, and for the next decade or so, we shot everything that walked or crawled with these rifles. I used a 175 gr Partition for a few years with excellent results. Seated out a little over 3.5 inches over a case full of RL22 got me 2900 fps and cratered everything it hit. I even put it lengthwise through a bull elk. That's impressive. I eventually settled on a 160 gr Accubond as the best compromise between external ballistics and terminal ballistics that could be done right in the ridiculously slow 9.25 twist Remington puts on their M700s. Eventually, my brother admitted no shoulder thumped downrange seemed to notice a difference as much as the shoulder thumped uprange. He quietly shelved the .300 when he inherited a .30-06 from my grandpa, but I still slay with that 7mm.
.300 Win Mag is fine once you put a brake on it and have everyone around you wearing good ear muffs.
couldn't agree more, if you haven't already, try the Norma Oryx bullets on Elk, in my 7mm RM the 156 grain oryx bullet length is short enough that I can pack more charge and still fit my rounds into the tikka oem magazine. the new Hornady CX 150 grain bullets are great for long range shots across canyons. they're made of copper/alloy which helps with barrel life. If I were to step up to a 300, it would be a 300 WSM. which has 99% of the same ballistics of the 300 win mag, but less recoil. for elk or moose thats all a western hunter really needs, unless you're hunting grizzly
I disagree
@@popinfresh3088 You're free to disagree. But your opinion only matters to the degree you can support it. An assertion presented without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.
the 300WM typically has slightly more energy than 7mm RM within a few hundred yards, but past that the 7mm RM beats 300WM in both energy and accuracy. I wouldn't exactly call that a "one up" even if that's what your brother was intending. IMO, you still got him beat. Ammo availability though... He's likely got you there
EVERY hunting channel covers the right caliber for elk each year… it’s never solved, great info, data and options, but I ALWAYS watch these!!! Fun to dig in and maybe someday (nah, never) we’ll put this to rest.
Loved that you took the time to address bullets and break down how they all look and work. I agree! It’s a big deal on the type of bullet.
Likely one of the best vids I’ve seen year to year on this as you covered SO many elements on caliber, bullet, weight, diameter, etc.
Very informative and realistic talk about shot angle/ path. Without the the "I only take perfect broadside shots inside 75yds" story we are so used to hearing. Just straight facts and discussing real scenarios.
To only take perfect shots you have to be willing to let some animals walk away. It can be done, but you may not get to fill your tag. I only take quality shots on deer because we have an overpopulation in Texas, and I'll get plenty of opportunities. Elk is a whole different game. I'd be hunting out of state and only have a few days to fill my tag. I would not be carrying a 6.5.
@@TexanUSMC8089 I agree completely. And I understand what you mean about deer. Even there, though, many people don't have the restraint.
Yes, unusually well reasoned and explained. The anatomical diagrams and accompanying description really clarified *why* your mileage may vary with a given cartridge on elk, depending on the angle the animal presents itself with.
My last Montana whitetail buck was taken with a .308 win at about 20 feet(closest to date) , sitting on the ground with my back against a tree, rifle rested on a tripod trigger stick in the Yellowstone river bottoms near Glendive , same .308 used on a nice Wyoming Antelope buck taken at 324 yards plus a couple steps just north of Medicine Bow, he was walking slowy quartering away and I had a gusty 35mph+ winds to contend with, same tripod trigger rest only kneeling to stay above the sage, It took me three stalks to get that close, the first two blown stalks just pushed him and his three does out past 500yds twice, fact is, you should always try to close the distance, you owe it to the animal, that same .308 handloaded with 165gr. Gmx's (none recovered, all exited) has also taken 5 California blacktail bucks, one at 30feet the others at 87yds, 100yds, 152yds and 235yds , would take any North American game if you do your part, and close the distance, that's the challenge!
My personal choice is 338Winmag with A-frames 1st. 7mm mag with 175's 2nd. If hunting in thick timber I use a 348 winchester with 200 A frames. No issues just results.
I have a Weatherby Mark V chambered in 30.06 with a 24” barrel and I shoot Barnes 175 grain LRX bullets. According to the ballistics it has more velocity/energy at 700 yards than a .300 Winchester Magnum loaded with 150 gr. Remington Core Lokt does!!!! I’m not saying I’d ever shoot that far at an elk but it’s amazing to me that this non magnum round is a real world beater!!!! I haven’t taken an elk yet but hopefully next season will have a little different ending!!!! I appreciate your insight on these cartridges…. Thanks again and God bless
I have taken elk with a bow, muzzle loader, and rifle. Mostly with rifles. A few with the 270, the rest, about thirty with the 338. As an elk slayer, the 338 does nothing but SHINE. Shot placement is always critical. And getting in range, under 300 yards is best. 😀
Which 338?
@@juhanivalimaki5418 He's probably talking about .338 Win Mag, which is a fairly popular cartridge used in Alaska and Montana.
@@juhanivalimaki5418 Definitely Win Mag
So would you say the 270 is not a good choice? I ask because I have a 270 and want to go elk hunting but unsure if I should get another gun
@@Templetons You're fine with .270 Winchester. Shoot a 150gr Nosler Accubond LR or 130gr E-Tip (solid copper bullet), or a Hornady 145gr ELD-X, 130gr CX, or 130gr GMX.
Do a rifle set-up checklist:
* Bases and rings Loc-tited
* Quality scope zeroed with proper eye relief for field positions
* Get Trigger time from field positions common for your hunting area
* Keep the shot within 300yds
* If you zero 1.3" high at 100yds, you'll have a good point blank or no-hold zero to 300yds
* Study elk vital zone anatomy from different angles
* It usually takes at least a year in advance studying and scouting the area you'll be hunting to learn their eating and bedding habits, so don't have unrealistic expectations.
They have superb senses of smell and are great at avoiding people, especially during season.
Eland is tad bigger here in my backyard….🇿🇦 165gr Partition out of my 308Win does just fine. 168gr ABLR from my 7X64 is great too.
With the right bullet, the .308 Win can do okay in the right hands when it comes to Eland. But if I was building a tailor made cartridge for Eland hunting it would closely resemble the terminal performance of an 8mm mag or .338 Win
Very good explanation, Sir. We all have our favorites for our own reasons, but breaking down the "Why's" is very important. I stick with the most gun I can shoot accurately. Keep up the good work!
I have used the Barnes TTSX for elk and aoudad. I have yet to be disappointed. Thanks for this informative video. Always helpful.
No lead in your meat or in the environment for other animals to consume either. 👍
Hows the TTSX I'm looking into using them over the Hornady GMX or CX
35 whelen is who I take to the dance.😂❤
I use the European cousin the 9.3 x 62 and find nothing lacking.
Been wanting 1 of those 2 for years. Hard to go wrong. If i ever find a Rem 7600 in Whelen, i will jump on it. To get a 9.3, i would probably have to have an -06 length action rebarreled. I think CZ chambered it for a few years also. There is a small cult of people in AK who rebarreled Garands to 35 Whelen also. I assume an adjustable gas plug is necessary. Midway has shown the Walther made barrels in stock....
Barnes 250gr TTSX in my 9.3x62 absolutely floored a nice 6x5 bull elk with a complete pass through on a high shoulder shot.
Lasered 300yd shot.
Use enough gun with quality bullets!
Good to see another 9.3x62 user. Love mine and nothing ever needs a second round. Those big bullets are just the perfect combination of weight, velocity and sectional density. Designed to kill things that can kill you in Africa way back in 1905, I think it is perfect for anything in North America.
@@wallyzworld7108 must confess, I was on a knee and while cow calling to stop the bull, I made a bad shot.
I hit him just in front and high of the right rear hind quarter (spine) and absolutely floored him.
While working the bolt he regained his feet and went uphill to a clump of brush and stood broadside, that's when he caught one in the shoulder and was down for keeps. 300yds and both 250gr TTSX's were complete pass throughs!
I'm convinced I would have lost that bull if not for the raw power of this cartridge.
My 9.3x62 is a model 111 Savage that started as a 30-06, and was rebored by Jes Ocumpaugh of Jes reboring in Oregon.
Simply wonderful accuracy and consistently prints 1/2 moa with any developed load you put through it.
Puzzles me why hunters are wasting money on 'the latest and greatest' fads when this 118 year old round is so effective and deadly for anything on the planet.
Rock on 9.3x62, and happy hunting!
I like the good old 9.3x62, but with your high shoulder shot a 6.5 Creedmoor would have done the same thing. I assume you used a longer barrel, but out of a 20’ that TTSX would have been at 1900 ft/s at 300 yards. Slower than at least I would be comfortable with a TTSX.
I have loaded a 250 grain Accubond, slightly better BC and better expansion at lower velocities.
@@nikos6220 1996 fps, and 2211 ft-lbs of energy.
Plenty of velocity and reliable expansion down to 1600fps.
Got no problem with anything 6.5, and I don't think it would have had the same effect on a high shoulder shot. In fact the 9.3 was probably packing more energy at 300 yds than any 6.5 does at 100yds!
@@Drivapete thx for the stats. From all tests I have seen I would doubt the down to 1600 fps marketing on the TTSX. But hey, great that that it works for you.
The 6.5 127 TX Long Range would be at 2300 fps and 1500 ft-lb, plenty speed and energy and for that hard bullet to get through the bone and make that CNS hit
As an advocate of the .338 Win for elk, I love how many people have mentioned it in the comments. However, the whole point of the video was choosing the right bullet regardless of caliber or the cartridge delivering it. There are a lot of great elk cartridges in the 8mm - .375 class not mentioned, and honestly, bullet selection is less critical for these medium bores. Typically, traditional cup and core bullets will work wonders in these calibers and feed them a bonded core or a mono metal and it bumps them up to an even higher pay grade. Not mentioned, because in this discussion, bullet selection for the medium bores- not so critical. And now I have to add… I own a few 30-06’s, a 300 Win, 300 WBY and a couple .338 Win’s, a .375 H&H and a few big bores. When I leave the house on a rifle elk hunt, I’m grabbing one of my 2 .338’s stuffed with 210 and 225 Barnes ttsx’s. And when a new hunter asks what they buy to hunt elk, my answer is always “30-06 w/ 180 grain bonded core or mono metal bullet”.
A hand loaded 8mm mauser is a fantastic hunting cartrudge. The european made ammo is very good too. The factory loaded american 8mm mauser is anemic and not very good for anything bigger than white tail deer. I have had very good success with the old mauser.
Everything that I ever shot with a 180 grain Accubond out of a 30-06 was “DOA”.
@@blueduck9409ever hear of a 308:06? Is that an European 8mm?
8mm Remington Magnum with 220 gr Sierra GameKings. Yes, it's a cup-and-core bullet, but a tough one designed specifically to hold together at 8mm Rem Mag velocities.
@Nick-wn1xw True. It's a great cartridge that never caught on.
1. It filled basically the same niche as the already established 338 Win Mag and requires a longer action than the 338 WM.
2. The recoil is a bit more than most people want to deal with (but so is the 338 WM).
3. Metric calibers, other than 7mm, had a hard time gaining a foothold in the US.
4. As you said, Remington didn't give it much support. A few years ago it took me two weeks of emailing back and forth to get a straight answer from Remington on whether or not the Custom Shop will still make one on request. (They will.) By that time I'd bought a used one on gunbroker.
@Nick-wn1xw I like cartridges that are a little off the beaten path. It's not like I set out to get something weird that not many people use. I just couldn't decide if I wanted a 338 Win Mag or a 300 Win Mag, and wanted something in between. 8mm - .323 - is exactly halfway in between .308 and .338. So there were exactly 3 cartridges in that caliber that would push an 8mm bullet at the velocity I wanted, 325 WSM (questionable on velocity with long, heavy bullets unless you chamber it in a longer action to seat the bullet out long like the competition guys do with 300 WSM), 8mm RM (maybe a tiny bit overkill for my goals - but I'm splitting hairs because there's not really THAT much difference between these three cartridges), and 8x68mm S Schuler (impossible to get ammo or brass at that time, though brass is somewhat available now) .
Very well done Joseph and Ron, this video gives very solid advice! Here’s to your continued success. 🍻
For me it's the 358 Norma mag and 250gr Nosler partition. For you it may be something else, but it works for me.
.358 Norma Mag is one heck of a round. It's more than enough for African game except for the caliber restrictions. It has more guts than the 9.3x62.
Great video. I am pretty sure that a lot of scavengers got fat the last 10 years on large game shot with a too slow 6.5 copper that didn’t expand
Probably shot from too far away
Yep. I know of several deer that were shot with the 6.5 that didn’t get recovered. My cousin has thermal drone recovery business. I was amazed at how many calls he got. Muzzleloader calls were bad, but honestly smaller caliber rifles were almost as bad. With 6.5 being at the top. Shot placement is even more critical with that round.
Excellent video . I put loads of thought into bullet construction so this was nice to see . The terminal ascent is excellent as is the barns and partition . I’m partial to my custom 35 Whelen. 225 accubonds leaving the muzzle at 2800 . I normally hunt Timbers but I can reach out to 400 yards with it quite confidently . Very rare for me to have to shoot that far tho .up here in the north of British Columbia it is not uncommon for these animals to weigh upwards of 1000 pounds . The farther north you go , the larger the genetics are body wise . Hit them hard with good bullets folks . Don’t drink the Berger coolaid using target bullets on these animals . You may get the job done with a perfect broadside but anything else will be an absolute nightmare and horrible for the animal .
My personal picks for elk are the 338 Winchester mag and the 300 PRC. Both cartridges carry plenty of energy all the way to the target. Even out to 300+ yards.
Top three in the Elk Valley BC is 7mm Mag 300 Mag and 30/06 in no particular order.
Randy selby says the same things. A 175 grain nosler partition in a 7mm is absolute hell on elk. I’d love to see him on your show .
Love randy feel the same
I've shot several elk with a 175 gr Partition over RL-22 at just north of 2900 fps, and it catered every single one of them like a megalomaniacal cartoon coyote dropped an ACME safe on it. I've punched that bullet lengthwise through a bull, in my younger days, when I wasn't as patient. South end of a north-bound bull in cover. I caught him as he paused just a second cresting a ridge. Hit right at the tailbone, exited moddle of the chest just under the windpipe. Ass end hit the ground so fast he rolled over backwards then flopped head over heels until he got caught up against a tree. Amazing bullet for typical hunting distances. When I started to push my limits, I moved over to the 160 gr Accubond. Which did really well, but I never quite had the confidence in it to really break shit and put em down like the 175 gr Partition. Something about that sectional density and velocity from an expanding bullet that just flattens critters.
.348 Winchester in a Model 71 Winchester Lever Action Ron 😀😊❤️🎃
Right with you. Always wanted ine. I love lever actions, and the 71 was the apex
This man presents the most articulate presentation on terminal ballistics that I have ever seen. This is where the rubber meats the road!
I don't like rubber meat😂
@@thehoneybadger8089lol😅😅😅😅
6.8 western with accubond LR my choice this season 👌🏼
My hell's canyon is .5MOA with the ballistic silvertips. I don't have elk but I smoke deer with em
I second this choice.
We hunt an area that is right next to a preserve. Anything that crosses the line after being shot is a problem. Compounding the problem is the elk may show up on that property for a couple of days during hunting season and then they are gone. They also don’t have a specific location they enter from, but we found that a rifle that was good for 400 yards or so would vastly improve the odds.
Our combined 50 years of experience brought us to pretty much the same conclusion that you have determined, and we eventually settled on the .338 Win Mag. It fits our requirements and hits hard, minimizing our line issues.
Any cartridge based on the 30-06 case will do, from 25-06 to 35 Whelen. Original 30-06 cannot be beat, only equaled.
a 300wm beats the 30-06. Same bullets at higher velocity. I don't understand why you think it can't be beat.
@@TeensierPythonI would say performance vs recoil the .30-06 is very hard to beat
30-06 can be beat in every way, every day of the week, without much effort
That’s simply not true. I think a better way to make your point is to say a 30-06 shooting at least a 165 grain high quality bullet will kill a bull with a quartering or shoulder shot just as well as 30 caliber magnum inside, say, 350 yards.
My 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, 300 RUM and 7mm Rem Mag all outperform the old 30-06 in every category. And I'd never use my 25-06 on anything larger than a mule deer with so many other better cartridges available. The 30-06 is a good all around cartridge but not great in any one area.
I bought a Savage M110 “Long Range Hunter” in 300 WSM back in 2019 for western hunting including elk, to complement my long time only reliable .270 Win. Sadly I have yet to make it out west since my tag a long venture in 2019 to Idaho for mule deer 🦌 with my brother and Dad.
I am a longtime listener and patron to the Backcountry Hunting podcast and it’s definitely worth a follow. I have heard Joseph break this down many times and it is good to see it in video format.
Nice illustration of an elk from above. At first I thought that it was a picture of a basset hound held up vertically like that.
Any decent hunter with a 280, 7mm mag 30-06 or 300 mag will do great. Problem is all the elk being wounded by wanna be snipers that buy fancy gear but don't know how to hunt. Nothing wrong with fancy cartridge and gear but its not a substitute for hunting and shooting ability. A good hunter will be successful with a 30 30 or even a bow.
Agreed. I would even argue the ballistics of today's modern cartridges are creating more unethical hunting practices than ever because too many people these days think they can now take animals at 600, 700 or 800+ yds. that far exceeds their abilities as a shooter, which only leads to more maimed animals and slow, painful, unethical deaths.
I watch a lot of these long distance "hunting" videos and in way too many cases I see really bad shot placement or even complete misses. Some of these guys may be able to hit a target at 800+ yds. from a bench, but it's a WHOLE other story being able to hit the vitals of an animal with an elevated heart rate after hiking up mountainous inclines, then stopping and calming yourself enough to take an ethical shot. That's the problem with range shooting, it doesn't take into account all the other physical factors of real world hunting situations.
But yeah, I just see too much unethical hunting these days and today's modern ballistics are making too many people feel like they're some kind of hero sniper. It's not a good thing for hunting ethics, or the animals.
@@PlumcrazinessAlso, many people nowadays are buying bullets that have pretty bad terminal performance in their pursuit of high BC even though they most-likely won’t be making any shots beyond 400 yds.
@@sentineloffreedom Yep, that's another issue as well. Just like how I recently came across an unbelievably unethical commenter here on TH-cam who condoned shooting at a moose at 585 yds. with 6.5 Creedmoor...using match ammo. Some people just have no right shooting at living animals with such an astounding lack of judgement or care.
But yes, selecting the proper bullet construction for the species of game being hunted, the distance being shot at, as well as the impact velocity is incredibly important. Being mindful of choosing the proper bullet construction before any given hunt is indeed a part of being an ethical hunter. 👍
I just love the teamwork with Ron Spomer and Joseph Von Benedikt.
Very good video. I agree the larger cartridges are better.I like to put anything down quickly and humanely.
Very educational. I’m in Appalachia and hunt with a 35 rem. Looking to get a long range deer rifle with hopes of going elk hunting someday. Most informative video on TH-cam.
Outstanding presentation. You covered all the options and what ifs very well.
Excellent presentation. Great information. Only addition I would make is adding the 338 Win Mag. More frontal diameter. I have a 30-338 custom that is great, but very obscure. Gets the job done with 180 partitions
The 338 is the best elk rifle on tough shots
If I ever got the chance to hunt Elk, it would come down to three rifles that I own. First is my Ruger 77MKII All Weather in 30.06. I have hunted deer with this rifle for 28 years. It has the horrible boat paddle stock but was heavily modified before I ever shot it. The bolt face was trued, the action glass bedded, the barrel free floated, and the trigger adjust to 2.5 lbs. I can say I have never missed a deer. Granted, my hunting in WV has been limited to 200 yards. My second choice would be a Savage 110 hunter in 300 win mag. I have used it once, taken one deer. My final choice would be my Remington 798 in 375 HH Mag. It is a shoulder thumper. If I came down to it I would use the Ruger in 30.06. It is "my rifle". I am extremely comfortable with it. I know what it can, and cannot do.
Anything to add for .338 and .35 cals?
As long as it’s a long action let’s rock
Excellent presentation. I am a huge fan of the Nosler accubond bullet. For moose elk and bear I like the 180g from the 300 Weatherby, the 300 wsm, or the 300 win mag. They are the ones I have and the ones I trust but there are many other great options available
Amen -got 90% of the different calibers and I'm never on a stand with less than a 300
30-06 SPRG loaded with 165 grain Nosler Partitions has killed boxcar loads of game over the decades, including elk & moose.
Thank you Joseph for the very informative discussion on elk cartridges. Too many times the focus ends up on the size of the case and not on the bullet construction and the effective range of that bullet at a given velocity.
What about 7mm-08 I just bought one. Seems good. I use 06 30 and at times my 338 Win mag. When in doubt take the 30-06 out.
If the 6.5 creedmore can do it, so can a 7mm-08. If not better
7mm-08 is great on elk inside 400 yards. Most hunters have no business shooting beyond that distance
@@johnbaldwin351 I can shoot long distance due to my background and 400 is about what I limit to. Not so much killing it it is finding it. Could run and you could loose sight if shooting from ridge to ridge walking up on it.
@@johnbaldwin351 Agreed. "Make it a hunt, not a shoot."
@@johnbaldwin351 Agreed. I cringe every time a presenter talks about long shots they make, without throwing in a disclaimer. Unless you have practiced and really know the drop, few people have any business shooting beyond 300, imho, because trajectories start to vary a lot after 300. Plus it is too far to walk. Lol
Great video. Not going to lie the top view elk looked like a hound with its tongue out and mo ears. Love the channel and videos, can never learn enough about bullets, guns, and the outdoors
Saw that too. I was waiting on the ears to be drawn on.
Can’t unsee it now. LOL!
Great video, with a logical and pedagocical build up to explaining preference of bullets and cartridges. With respect to the "Scandinavian myth" , I am from Scandinavia and have 30 years+ experience from hunting elk and moose in Scandinavia. For starters, elk and moose in Scandinavia are smaller than what you will typically find in North America and what is mentioned in the video.
"Maximum" slaughter weigth for a bull elk will typically be around 150 kg / 300 pounds.
"Maximum" slaugther weigth for a bull moose will typically be around 350 kg / 700 pounds.
Hunting in Scandinavia is 95% hunting in the woods (using dogs for moose) and stalking for elk, which implies that most kills are done at ranges below 200 yards,
Hunting for reindeer (caribou) takes place in the mountains (above the tree line), where the shooting range can be much longer - as far as you dare, but then again, a reindeer is not considered a hard kill.
This explains why the 6,5x55 is a widely used and succesful cartridge selection for elk and moose hunting in Scandinavia. Of course there are some historically availability factors to consider as well.
There is a very large and thorough research made in Sweden, some years ago, on moose hunting. This research studied how far a moose will run after the first shot. The study includes more than 10 000 kills.
The average distance from shot to fall was something like 120 meters/yards.
The kills was predomenantely done using the 6,5 x 55 caliber, more than 99%
Other calibers, (read more powerful) could not demonstrate a shorter running distance from shot to fall.
It must be admitted though, that the use of "stronger" calibers was statistically so scarce, that any effect cannot be read from this study.
300 WM with 180 Nosler partitions, still have couple boxes of 200 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, love my 300 WM
Thank you for your video on elk hunting and cartridges. What you said made a lot of sense. In the past I had planned for an elk hunt but I no longer have the physical capability to do so because of a serious back injury. In fact it seriously affects my deer hunting. But I still like to read/see videos on hunting of elk. You gave some practical advice. Couldn't cover everything but covered the basics.
You mentioned long range shooting. After helping at the local range during sighting-in days before deer season, long range for most hunters, including some who said they were either past elk hunters or on their way, is 200-300 yards at the most. For some 100 yds is too long. Fortunately none of those had been elk hunters. There are very few hunters who could reliably hit an elk at any range approaching 400+ yds. I really think there should be much less emphasis on hitting at long range which seems to be all the rage now. Seen too many people purchase rifles/scopes which make long range hits possible but they lack the experience and knowledge to do more than hit them on the fringes if at all. Sure it is their fault, but too many magazines and videos make long range hitting seem easy and the norm. I suspect there are too many wounded elk, and deer, left in the hunting fields because of attempted long range shooting. Know of it with deer, just no experience in the elk fields.
Thank again for this and other videos you have made. Have a good day.
Excellent video and I appreciate the fact that he talked about frontal area. Kinda surprised he didn't mention the 338 Win or 340 Wby or the 35 Whelen.
They aren't new sexy beltless magnums that shoot target bullets with a .700 bc. Why would outdoor writers care for them?
Load a 200gr badlands bulldozer in a 340 and you have 270 win 130gr trajectories with a lot more oomph behind it
@@madwe2269 I know. I've been using one for almost 40 years.
+1 for mentioning target bullets. I find it completely ironic that folks are using target bullets on large game, when the entire premium bullet industry in America was started by a truck driver whose bullets fired from a 300 H&H Magnum failed to penetrate the hide of a mud caked moose.
@@highplainsdrifter9631 Amen! That always grinds my gears as well. Not to mention 95% or more of all hunters do not have anywhere near the skill to make use of long range, high BC bullets. They ought concentrate much more on learning how to get within a decent range of 400 yards or less, instead. There's enough slobs in our sport already, we don't need to give the anti's even more to use against us with long range hope shots and wounded animals.
that's because the constant urination of birth control into the water supply has resulted in 1911's being made in 9mm and the introduction of cartridges specifically for women like 6.5 creedmoore.
Great video. Use the right bullet and the largest most powerful cartridge I have for elk. I've never shot an elk so I'd be listening to advice from someone that has. Like in this video. Solid copper or Nosler partition. 300WSM or 7PRC would be my choice from what I currently own.
Great info. I shoot a 300win mag with 180gr Sierra gameking hand loads. Works great
1) .300 winmag, 2) 7mm remmag, 3) 30-06. End of story.
Don't forget the 338 win mag 😁
Powerbelt 295gr with a 777 magnum load
Agreed, with 1 exception. If you're not in grizzly country, and capable of shots beyond 400 yds, yet sensitive to heavy recoil, you may want to consider the .270 Win. over the 30-06. The .270 will give you approximately 100- 150 yds more range when you consider not only energy but also the velocity you need for proper expansion, due to better BC.
@@cmiller1190 ok
No arguments here.
Shooting big game past 500 is probably on the edge of most people's ability to make an accurate and ethical harvest. Shot placement is always key, larger and faster projectiles can make up some of that, but a well placed shot with good penetration will get the job done.
I think a good rule here is always try to get as close as possible, and wait for the right shot.
Are you kidding me? More like 300 yards!
Concise yet thorough!!! Excellent!
Just curious, what are your thoughts on the .338 win mag?
338 win mag has more energy @ 200 yrds than a 30-06 has at the muzzle
Hello from Alabama. No elk here. The .45-70 has plenty of punch for deer, hogs and black bears. I've used it for moose a few times. Placing the shot is important for bringing down what is aimed at. Not sure how it would be against an elk.
Range is the issue. I've been bow hunting wapiti for my whole hunting life and getting close is the hard part. Elk are smarter than deer or moose so they keep their distance and entire herds will evacuate 10+ miles off once they get spooked. The 45-70 low velocity and high drag present real problems.
@@userJohnSmith huge bullet drop
The 45-70 govt has killed a lot of elk. The old timers had solid lead bullets 405 grain or 500 grain, and inside 200 yards it is devestating on elk. That was with black powder loads. Today, modern smokless powder and modern rifles make it even more lethal. Inside 200 yards its hard to beat.
@@blueduck9409 but can a person stalk elk inside 200 yards?
@@herrent I mean, I have but it's a bitch.
Just made some handloaded ttsx .308 round for Finnish moose. 130gr and 2950fps average shooting distance is about under 100M.
It's so much fun to read the comments of the "The Best _____ for______" videos....everyone is an expert.
My favorite are the ones that put forth an opinion, but will defend it as a fact until their last breath.
Oh, I forgot to mention that when hunting lesser elk (for food), and big Mule Deer, I favored my levergun (Browning) in 7mm RemMag for the flatter trajectory.
Much appreciated, Joseph. I respect your experiences and what you've learned and shared here. I have a 270 Win, but i am looking for a 338-06 or 35 Whelen for my Elk and Moose hunting upcoming...time is running out...
Awesome..35 Whelen 200gr 2900fps..very hard to beat.
6.8 Western will do all 😊
@@camwinston5248a 200 gr projection has a very marginal density for Elk. It’s the equivalent of 150 gr for 30 cal. It’s funny how some folks just don’t understand sectional density.
I also don’t know how you would get 2900 fps with a 200 gr projectile from a 35 Whelen. My Hornady manual tops out wt 2650 fps
@@peterluttgens3364why on earth would he buy a 6.8 Western when he already has a 270? You buy something in 277 or 7mm caliber as a general purpose hunting rifle. Moving from 270 to 6.8 Western isn’t enough of a bump up to warrant owning two rifles in those cartridges or selling one to buy the other. Also the 6.8 Western is in life support right now as a viable cartridge. You aren’t going to be able to find ammo at most places
If you’re specifically looking for an Elk rifle you may as well step up to something bigger. I just don’t understand the folks that have a bunch of overlap with their rifle collection.
I find that a combination of a 270 Win and 300 Win Mag is tough to beat. They compliment each other really well. The 270 is a fantastic deer, pronghorn, sheep/goat cartridge that shoots flat and bucks the wind well. You can use it for Elk with the right bullet in a pinch.
Then when you need something with a little more authority for really big game you have your 300 Win Mag.
They are both available anywhere and have similar trajectories so you can really master your drop charts. They are different enough in capabilities to warrant owning rifles in each caliber yet are similar enough for a smooth transition back and forth.
@@strat1080 projectile type,powder selection and barrel length, and 200grs weight is 200grs. You are correct about SD but an elk or anything else could care less about this or whether the hunter is wearing camo or a Santa Claus suit while they are being shot at..there isn't anything on the N.A. continent that can stand up to that load..Or your max load of 2650 either..be good out too 300yd, but if hunting correctly and in most situations the distance would be less than half of this,especially if hunting in the timber..But if we are worried about all this we can easily hop this up too 250grs with the same type of projectile. Which btw you can squeeze 2600fps out off...T-Rex anyone?..and btw thousands of elk an many moose have been taken with a 150gr in 30/06. Not my first choice but still. Have a great day 🎅
I'm surprised there's no 338s in the line up. I still remember thee decades ago all the gun and hunting magazines were touting 338s as the proper elk cartridge.
My buddy's dad as a .338-06 and it has killed well over 30 Elk over the years
@@jarredlkling No doubt 👍
last 2 elk were cows, we took with 30 Cal .308 165 gr InterLock® BTSP, 30-06s one was 35feet, last was 75 ft. My one son was literally 25 foot and pulled 460 magnum, but let my other so take the long shot.
Exceptional advise, great video. What I noticed was no real mention of ballistic coefficients but several times mention “visible authority”.
Personally, I wouldn’t use a 6.5 CM on elk pass 140 yards…. I really liked this video. Good job Joesph
Hi Joseph
I enjoy.listining to your topics , and find you and Rons approach to hunting information informative and well put together i never feel i need to skip ahead listing to you Blokes.
Cant agree more in your explanation of cartridge choices and i think people get caught up in a specific catraridge is better than another but like you said its only the vessel / launch pad . By changing the bullet construction you change the wound channel, giving you a chance to hit vitals with deeper penetration. I always picture in my head that the rear half of a animal is filled with mud and the simple cup and core bullets would fall apart going through this stuff before hitting vitals .
Even though what you have said is common sense we all need to be reminded on Facts and laid out so nicely.
👍👍
My top choice is the 7mm mag with Barns bullets or the Swift A frame bullets.
Fantastic presentation...well done! I love these campfire/gun store conversations as well. Elk guide and hunter for many years. Many hunters and many elk. 24 and 25 calibers are minimal at best. Be careful with terrain and tracking conditions. 26 and 27 calibers are adequate in most circumstances. Cow elk and young bulls are not big bulls. Huge difference.
7 mag (and PRC/ Wthby/ STW) are better only because of bigger bullets and more velocity. Shine at long range due to high BC. Thirty cals are awesome. My personal favorite is the 300 Win with 200 gr Nosler or Terminal Ascent. Use 165 gr Barnes or Hornady CX when combo hunt for mule deer just because they shoot a little flatter. Variety of 180 gr are great!
Nothing else has the immediate effectiveness on elk as the 338-375 class rifles, 225-300 gr bullets. That is IF!!! the hunter can handle the recoil and shoot well. I've had hunters with 340 Wthby's that should have had an '06 or 270 Win. Big rifles do not make good long range rifles as the big bullets drop off the table beyond 450 yds or so. Plus they pound you from the prone position.
If you can get closer, do so, and that puts a lot of modest cartridges into the very effective class. It is easy (at home) to say you'll only shoot 200 yds. In practice, my hunters will take the 450 yard shot when that is all they are going to get. As an aside...inside 100 yards the 45-70 is great and 54 cal muzzleloader with 425 gr Great Plains bullet puts elk down where you can still see them. Thanks for the great videos!
.308 with the nosler trophy grade 165 grain has never let me down here in NM....
6.8 Western with a copper, accubond or terminal ascent bullet.
.35 Whelen. 225 gr. BTSP.
What about rounds like the 8mm,338s and 358s . I would not call them ultra long range rounds but the 8mm mag, 338 win mag/340 wby mag and 35 Whelen make a great elk gun to moderate range. My top pics would be 338 win mag with 225-250 gr bullets and 35 Whelen with same bullet weight and both with 225gr Barnes TSX/TTSX would be devastating on a elk and any angle within practical hunting ranges for each cartridge . Not sure why there were not mentioned but good video non the less 👍🏻
Love my 270's and 270wsm with 150gr and 160gr nosler partitions
30-06 with a 210 grain nosler accubond LR bullet
At 2600 fps has 1748 ft lbs of energy at 600 yds at 3000 ft of hunting elevation
Only 1 in 10 twist rate required for stability
It is a long range elk hammer load without magnum recoil
Has more than enough energy
At longer distances
Do you think that my tikka 30-06 will be able to stabilize a 210 bullet with 1-11 twist barrel?
@OURICO45 it stabilizes a 210 grain with 1 in 10 twist
So why wouldn't it
@OURICO45
1 in 11 twist shows marginal stability with a 210 grain accuubond with a 1 in 10 shows full stability at 1000 ft elevation and higher
Most hunters dont hunt at sea level though lol
In fact my hunting elevation for deer elk moose usually far surpasses 1000 ft of elevation
The 190 grain accubond long ramge bullet is your ticket in 1in 11 twist for engaging elk
Out to 600 yds . they expand reliably down to 1300 fps and at 600 yds the 190 grain is flying at over 1900 fps still so you're golden .there .
It still has over 1600 + ft lbs of energy at 600 yds
Well over 1400+ ft lbs energu at 700 yds
Personally I limit myself to 600 yds max for hunting but that's just me.
Spin drift wind drift etc become way more exageratted the further the distance .I don't like going there with a lightweight mountain rifle .
Mostly I don't shoot past 300 yds in hunting
But knowing you have the ability to take that very long shot is nice to know if the opportunity ever arises
Hope this helps
My guess for the lack of .338 and larger has to do with recoil. I love my 338WM and 340 WBY but they are hard on the shoulders especially the 340. Now i understand that for hunting 1-2 (hopefully) shots the last thing you think of is recoil but from the bench that is an issue. Now on a side note its hard to ignore a 225 or 250gn bullet at 2550-3k (ish) hitting an animal.
Even a well constructed 200gr 338 bullet is a force to reckon with. Out of a 340 wby the badlands bulldozer gives 270 130gr trajectory (sometimes even better) with a lot of penetration power on impact
No matter what caliber you choose for whatever. Know how it performs. The bullets I shoot need 1300 FPS minimum for proper expansion. So as long as my bullets are doing 1300 FPS plus, I’m taking the shot. I don’t look for the long range shot, I try to shorten the gap as much as possible. If I’m going to pay some $5-$10K for a hunt then don’t tell me that shot is to far or I’m underguned. I have hunted and guided for over 30 years and I’m still learning. Trial and error are needed to better yourself at anything. Know your limits on what you and your weapon of choice is. If you make a perfect shot at 1,000 plus yards at a elk, deer, bear whatever and it drops doesn’t mean you can do it every day all day every time. The condition changes every hunt, so must you. That 1000 yard shot you just did yesterday at that deer and it dropped in its tracks doesn’t mean you doing it today. Yesterday there was a 5 mph wind and today it’s a 20 mph wind with up to 40 mph wind gust. So shorten the gap.
great reasons for the 6.8 western except for not an easy reloading option or wide range of bullet options in factory ammunition. can see how a 280AI, 7 Mag or PRC option makes more sense without crossing over into recoil issues for many. Practice so you can put the right bullet in a good place is the key.
I am glad you mentioned the fact the Swede’s/Finnish shoot/hunt mostly on driven Moose! However the 6.5x55 you mentioned is used for Moose but most will use a bigger caliber. By Swedish law the 6.5 Swede is the smallest caliber allowed for Moose hunting, bullet weight has to be over 155 grain (10 gram).
The 80 meter distance we shoot driven/running Moose is correct and stretching to about 120 meters. Preferred bullet weight is around 185 to 190 grain for 30-06, 8x57js and 9.3x62 although the last mentioned comes with heavier bullets .
The interesting thing about the Scandinavian Moose hunting survey isn’t the distances to the animals, but the distances that the animals took after being shot. The 6.5mm and 7mms averaged shorter travel distances from the shot than .30 bores, which is counter-intuitive. We accept that all of the animals were shot at distances that are common in Scandinavia, which covers a wide range of shot opportunities. In Finland, the distances are short due to heavy forest. In Sweden, it can be heavy forest and some light mountainous terrain/hills. In Norway, you have longer shot opportunities and very drastic changes in elevation and relief.
@@LRRPFco52 , I have not seen this survey but take your word for it! In my personal opinion and experience of hunting driven Moose for over 40 years contradicts the survey, anyway it is not of importance what I think, every hunter should use a caliber to their choosing to make a ethical kill.
Regarding the distances we shoot running Moose has more to do what is ethical and responsible to make a clean kill at distance then the terrain . All the shooting ranges where most hunters practice before the Moose hunting season are on a moving Moose target at 80 meters!
@@paulfixdivcars5614 I had to take that same test in Finland to get my hunting license there. There's a moving target track with a large moose target that runs back and forth. I used a .308 SAKO 75 for the test.
Last I heard, too many older hunters couldn't pass the test, so it was amended to a static test shooting from a table.
I think it's easier to make your hits with 6.5mm and 7mm, so the shots average closer to the point of aim and go through the vitals more often.
Lapua and Norma make 156gr expanding bullets for the 6.5x55 as well, which produce devastating wound channels.
I like looking at large data sets that include numbers that no single person could ever accumulate in a lifetime, then trying to understand why the data is what it is.
There's also a South Carolina deer-hunting and caliber survey that looked at travel distances from the shot. .25-06 and .270 Win did a lot better than .243 or the .30 bores in that one, if I recall it correctly. It didn't have any 6.5mm samples in it.
Great video. The anatomy discussion and real world shot angles was helpful, since i have never hunted them. Excelment points about bullet construction. I follow ballistics on the intellectual level. Great to have your real world observations and experience added in. I have been meaning to say this- you are an excellent host and commentator. I have enjoyed your writing very much also. You have a wealth of experience that i will never obtain.
Had a deep interest in the 6.5 PRC, but i am going to go with the 7mm-08 for now, mainly because of the variety of factory ammo. No room for my reloading stuff in my tiny place. I hope to remedy that this year. Also, i have several boxes of 7mm bullets for my 7x57 (1895 Chilean, Ludwig Loewe 1908) that i never got to load. So there was that. Will probably start with Nosler 140 B Tips. I need to use them up anyway, since we can't use lead for hunting anymore here in the PR of Kalifornia. If i ever hunt. The heavy 173/175 gr ones i will save for traditional military style practice loads for the 7x57. I will probably get the PRC later, when i can handload, because i am somewhat interested in competition. And there is always Appleseed with my Garand or one of my other milsurps (303 British or M1917 US Enfield, anyone?😁).
I just bought a 6.5-300 Weatherby. I look forward for finding a good load for it. My primary elk rifle will be my .28 Nosler.
Very interesting and informative video. I have used my 280 Remington on everything from coyotes to moose and bears. 150 gr Nosler ballistic tips for animals up to Whitetails in size and 160 grain partitions for everything larger(and tougher). The 280 doesn’t kick me out from under my hat and kills just fine out to over 300 yards or so.
Great video!! Im gearing up for my first hunt and i appreciate all of the info. Thank You!!
Going to apply for my first elk tag next year, so this is some good info. Already know I'm going to use a Barnes solid copper bullet.
Good luck. Go in expecting to get skunked and don't break the bank. Elk are not white tail.
One thing guides have recommended for elk hunting is to start scouting the area you will hunt a year in advance and don’t leave that area if you aren’t successful your first year.
I was waiting for it, and then you said it.. KEEP SHOOTING!! Use whatever gun that you can keep on target for multiple accurate shots. Good video, thanks!
would a Nosler accubond bonded long range ABLR in 165 Gr. work ? I have mine moving at about 2900 to almost 3000 FPS . this is in a 270 cal. 1/8 twist 28 in barrel .
I really like this dude! Like to see him more!
Hey that's awesome! "Lungs are just strong bubbles"! That should be on a T-shirt!
I hate commenting but this is the best video, I seen so far. Clear and crisp 🎉
280 Rem with either 150 gr Partitions or a 160 gr Accubonds
Great video!!!! I know there are a lot that were left out but I have to say you left out the 35 Whelen ..... It's a beast on elk. Again great video.
.45-70 in the up to 200 yard range. Often used on moose here in Maine.
300 Weatherby Magnum with 180 grain Nosler Partition is a better Elk cartridge than any cartridge he covered.
Very nice video, I wish I can go public land hunting for elk some day
I am from South Africa and shoot a 7mm Rem mag 7x57 243 and 375 and to be honest I can use my 7 mag for everything from a springbok to a eland if it is close enough i pop it between the eyes or behind the ear but when past 200 tuck that 160 behind the shoulders and nothing has left me yet
It's all about having the adequate sectional density to penetrate and a flat enough trajectory to ensure a hit at a certain max range or less.
.300 Win Mag with a 180 gr Nosler Accubond Trophy Grade is such a sweet combo
Do you think the 6.8 western is going to take hold? I can’t believe it is still in the fringes.
Jury is still out on this, Timberghost. It's a great round loved by those who've tried it, but unless and until more brands chamber for it and build ammo for it, it will likely continue living on the edge. I've fired it twice at game, collecting a spectacular old whitetail and a tall, heavily horned pronghorn buck.
ADG is looking into producing brass for the 6.8 Western. I had heard rumors that they will start producing later on this year. So I emailed them and they just responded that it’s at the top of their list for new cartridges being considered. ADG has a great reputation for quality brass. This could be huge for the 6.8 Western.
In the mean time, I’ve ordered my ammo from Choice Ammunition and Pendleton Ammunition. They both load their own ammunition, so the quality is excellent.
Your list compares favorably with others I have seen for Elk.
Considering my most used deer rifle is a 7 mag, I’d say it’d handle an elk just as well
Indeed! I've put multiple elk in the freezer with a 7mag
Do elk get more rugged and resistant to bullets year over year? Perhaps natural selection?
Those terminal ascents seem to be the perfect bullet in every video I’ve seen for the majority of applications
Hopefully this video will ignore any "need" to shoot past 500 yards or so.