You wrote on your site not to anneal because there is no accuracy gain and your brass doesnt last as long. I disagree. I have some cases with 20-30 reloading's due to good annealing. Annealing keeps neck tension way more accurate seating bullets. Annealing stops necks from splitting.
@@jonlennon3348 - If I wrote that annealing made brass NOT last as long, that was certainly a mistake. Where did you read that? The only purpose of annealing is TO make the brass last longer. I do stand by the thought that annealing doesn't have an impact on accuracy--at least from what I've seen, and that's also supported by many others who have tested it.
You are talking to a benchrester. It does make a difference as you seat bullets you can feel the difference but you have to use a pound force gage as you seat so you can sort them by seating pressure. Now did I read your writings wrong,I may have but I do resect what you do just trying to spread knowledge from my end.@@backfire
Not much has changed since the advent of smokeless powder. The 125 year old 30-06 operates at the same if not greater pressures than many newer cartridges and has similar performance to other, newer ones of the same powder capacity. To call anything cartridge related new tech is almost like calling a slightly different tread pattern on a tire a breakthrough in wheel technology. That's not even hyperbole.
Important consideration is how easy it is to get ammo everywhere. Every little store that has ammo will have .308, 30-06, 270 win, and 300 win mag. The best for North America hunts is any of these.
I missed a few animals, so I texted Ron for an update 😀 284 Win. Or 280 AI for sheep, any 7mm mag for moose and plains game, but 300 WSM also excellent. Anything 243 win or larger for cougar.
300 Win Mag is also a solid choice for sheep. And .243 Win is ideal not only for cougar, but also white tail (fixes the trajectory issue of heavier lever gun bullets).
300 WSM is my all around one gun. Lightweight mountain rifle setup with a brake; handles beautifully. I just recently moved from factory ammo (180 Norma BondStrike) to start handloading. I can go up or down for species as needed.
Ron is an absolute legend!!! I talked to him at the whitetail & spring turkey spectacular show here in MI years ago when I just started reloading for my 7mm REM Mag and was having trouble getting anything to shoot well out of it. Ron turned me on to tha Barnes TTSX and that was the ticket. Since then I’ve harvested antelope, deer, bear, elk and moose all with a 140 grain round! THANKS RON!!!!
Great show. I have known Jimmy since he was a young teenager. My wife told I can’t call him Jimmy anymore. He is a real and sincere guy. He is like he seams. I remember his first gun purchase. He got his mom to buy one for each member of the family. Good job Jimmy.
2506 invented in the 1920s , legitimized by Remington in 1969 and only now getting fast twist barrels & high bc bullets ??? Talk about neglected !! The newbies today haven't heard of it & for hunting varmints and big game up to mule 🦌 it's more versatile than the 6.5 !! Had one since 1973 & no regrets! I'm a long time reloader so great ammo is readily available !
308 for everything they talked about. There’s so many options and so many different rifles made in 308. It’s a tried and true caliber that has earned its place for a reason.
@brandonbrown6544 as stated above, .308 is a damn fine generalist round, you can make it do anything you can think of, but it is beaten out in some way in every category by other cartridges that exist. This is also the personal opinion of both of these guys
308 is a damn fine cartridge. but if i had to pick a rifle that i could only have one and hunt every species on this list it would probably be something with a little more zip. such as 7 rem mag. and thats only because i hate to say that the 30-06 is more versatile than the 308.
You have the Legend Ron Spomer on the channel this is incredible. The knowledge this man has is incredible!!! Just when I thought your channel couldn’t get any better lol
Ok Jimmy boy, when we meet in Monticello in March before pd season closes I’ll bring my savage 17hmr Thumbhole semi auto along with the Volquartsen semi 17wsm. 350 yards/450 yards respectively for those and the abolt 204 good out to 700+ yards. All are dependent on wind of course. If we miss March we’ll have to move to July which is ok as well. And just to show you my heart is in the right place I’ll meet you at Powell in May for a couple days chasing bass. Of course…that single SIL may need to be invited…😅
These domestic hunting seasons are extremely abbreviated and season are short. Im poor and have to be practical so its 270win, 308win, and 30-06. Its all about logistics and economy for me. Available factory ammo and components. Pick one and go forth. Instead of buying rifles and junk a good pair of footwear and good optics are better investments.
Seen a lot of 243 or 30-06 for Caribou in Alaska. More about ammo availability than any other factor. Villages are isolated and shipments are few and far between. Neither cartridge breaks the bank also.
I have grown to appreciate both of these guys so much. Ron is a living legend! Also happy to have VonBenedikt making appearances on RSO these days. We are witnessing greatness guys!
I admit that I am addicted - I watch Ron Spomer Outdoors, Backfire and WhoTeeWho every single day for new content. All supremely knowledgeable and presentations are not preachy or criticizing. Thank you Jim, Ron and Adam!
I'm a 270 guy myself and I'm not afraid to use it on anything. The only issue is getting within a range for it to be effective. Such as elk. Probably want to be under 300 yards, and for me, 200 yards is preferable. But to know the limitations of the caliber and bullet choice is key.
I agree. I am a comfortable guy at 300yds. I use a .308 because until the kids are gone and I move out of town I don't shoot enough to trust myself farther. Knowing what your limitations are is far more important than the gun. I sincerely believe the average shooter owns a gun way more capable than they ever will be and I don't care what the cartridge is, people just listen to these guys and say well I can do that. In fact they cant because these guys shoot more in a week than most people do in a year. I am not saying there are not really good shooters out there they just tend to be rare. @@maddawgnoll
Appreciate the allusion to the native people in Alaska, i'm much more familiar with the Inuk from Nunavut, worked up there couple years and made many good friends up there! They're amazing hunters, truly have a 6th sense for hunting, but same thing on the east side of the ice rink, .223, .308 is what they all use. Their general rule of thumb is .223 for everything Caribou and smaller, .308 for everything above, that including Muskox, Polar Bear and large sea mammals like Beluga, Narwal and Seals, very impressive especially considering the thickness of the skin and blubber of sea mammals. Great content as usual, loving these uploads with Ron, cheers from Northern Quebec!
Love seeing your content young man. Hope your parents are good. Now about Ron, you just can not fake wisdom. He is one that stands out among all the great outdoorsman. I watch you both every time you put out shows. Once a soldier Always a soldier 👍👍👍👌👌👌
Thank you so much for the 7mm mag comments. I’ve used a Winchester in that caliber since the late 70s for mule deer and elk here in Utah and have never wanted anything else with me.
Ron and Jim - I went on my first Antelope hunt a couple weeks ago and took a 6.5 creedmoor. Used the 143gr eldx. Double-lung and complete pass through at 260 yards
I grew up in southwest Colorado and had two rifles, a 30-30 and a 30-06. What I carried depended on WHERE I was hunting versus what I was hunted. When I was hunting in the brush country I carried my 30-30. All shots were close and with the brush you had to be fast. All other times I carried my 30-06. I've taken deer, bear and elk with the '06 and deer with the 30-30. In the brush I never saw an elk and the bear was gone before I realized it was there.
The 6.8 Western cartridge is truly a silly idea, so I'm not surprised it died. Browning/Winchester are the same company and no other company wanted to support it. Pretty much died before the first rifle hit the market. Laughable!
@yooper7753 for the record barnes is looking at producing ammo for this cartridge and Christensen builds rifles in 6.8 now as do a few other smaller brands
Been shooting a 30-06 paired with a 4x12 Leupold and Barnes bullets for decades here in North Idaho. I use the 175gr Barnes LRX loads now but used TTSX for many years. Dumped everything from massive Whitetail bucks on the run at 100yds, to a Spike bull at 500yds, to a 500lb fall Black Bear (a 6'11 colorphase that weighed 470lbs gutted) at 400yds. The old 30-06 has done everything ive EVER asked of it. To me 500yds is my limit ANYWAYS, and the edge of it. I also use my 30-06 sometimes for coyotes and varmints usin mil Surp FMJs just for fun, tho i typically use my M4 for that. And I do shoot farther than 500yds its not that im not capable. I shoot out to 700yds on targets with my 556 Geissele M4 and my 7.62x51 AR10 but on big game animals 500 is a long long poke. I can always get within 500yds in my experience. But if i can get to 400 im much happier. No reason for me to EVER change. I mean, plus i just have way too much 30-06 ammo stocked now to ever change my inventory 😂 lol
good vid. As for caribou, when I was in my poor youth I shot a boo at 350yds with my 30-30. Yes, he ran 1/2 mile before he dropped and I'd never do that again. Was hunting in the Aleutian Islands where all shots are long range. My partner that day shot one from same herd as me with a 7mm Rem Mag and his dropped like a rock. I learned a lot that day.
Ron's experience reminds me of my Dad. Dad got his gunsmith license right after getting out of the Navy in 56. His handloading manual was Lyman's 2nd edition - he instilled in us a love for cartridges like the .220 Swift, .257 Roberts, 7x57 Mauser, .30-06, and anything Gibbs and Ackley. I love Ron's appreciation of the grand, old cartridges. I also appreciate the perspective Jim brings to the table. Ron isn't an old fogey and shows he isn't locked in a time warp. Jim, I'm new to your channel and I love it.🎯
When I had my custom rifle built, I switched from 7 rem mag to a 7SAUM with a longer throat over a 7PRC. So far I’ve been pleased 22in barrel getting 2830 out of it with a 180 Berger hybrid.
Way cool to see you and Mr. Spomer together. Your influence and contacts are growing fast! On a side note, I saw you at Al’s last week and was going to say hello and let you know I really enjoy what you do but you were with your family and I didn’t want to interrupt family time! Thanks for the great content.
Thanks to both of you. This is one of my favorite topics. Played this game with my oldest son when he took me on a Colorado mule deer hunt. What a great time. Jim, I haven’t shot a caribou either. Want to go? Thanks for sharing.
Great discussion!!! Truly hard to beat for 2 reasons the 30-06’. 1st easily obtained factory ammo loaded from 120gr to 220gr with every type of bullets available. 2nd this ammo is in every big, little, out of the way Mom and Pop store basically around the world. It’s not the sexy choice and the newest latest greatest fanciest cartridge out there it just works on everything everywhere.
@@taphillips75 That's why now I stay clear of calibers that haven't been popular for a decade or so. Got 9x23 Winchester and 6x25 Dillon barrels for Glocks and 1911s that are pretty much useless.
Ron has a plethora of knowledge. It's fun to debate the cartridge for each species. All of them work great as shot placement is king. I use the 300 WM for everything except varmints.Not that it's superior but I know how it shoots with my hand loads. A 180gr at 3000fps is devastating on everything and I know the drops out to 500 yards.. That's the most important factor.
Being a 7mag owner and just now getting into distance a 7PRC looks very attractive to me. Something about lomg range is so fun even if it is just plinking 😊
I'm not far ahead of you. Long time 7RemMag owner. Now have two 7PRCs and 2 on the way. Whatever you do, build it. Don't buy factory made UNLESS the builder uses the Alex Wheeler improved reamer which is better than the original SAAMI spec reamer. The SAAMI spec reamers for 7PRC, 6.5PRC, 300PRC create chambers that get to pressure too soon, you get clickers, etc.
@@waynemensen4252 can put a brake on it. I don't find the recoil to be bad. May be on par with a 30-06 with a 165 bullet. But, both of my 7PRCs do have larger contour barrels. One is a Brux #5, the other is a Hart #6
@@waynemensen4252 Not yet but I would if it came down to it. I've hunted CO and WY and AZ with 9 pound rifles. Not ideal but I manage. I pack light otherwise so total hunting pack wt doable. They are not light wt by any means. I've not weighed them. What I had in mind for the 2 I have is hunting over the long bean and corn fields where I hunt down south from a blind. Can easily shoot 800 yards. The additional 7PRCs coming are more for CO, WY, UT hunting in the mountains. These will be on a Terminus Zeus QC action with a Brux #3 and the others will mate to the same action but with a Benchmark #3. I have a K&P #4 on the way and Ordering another Brux #2 soon
Very interesting. I've always stuck to my 30/06 for everything bigger than a coyote but it is definitely a heavy rifle, and can cause to much damage. I've learned a lot from this video
Wow I totally agree with Ron about the best elk and mule deer cartridges. I think the reason your beloved 6.8 Western fizzled is 2-fold: The name doesn’t resonate with many people and they associate it more with a 6.5mm. And the .277 caliber itself leaves much to be desired in component selection. If they had made it the 7mm Western it probably would have done better.
The 6.8 Western cartridge is truly a silly idea, so I'm not surprised it died. Browning/Winchester are the same company and no other company wanted to support it. Pretty much died before the first rifle hit the market. Laughable! Calling it 7mm Western wouldn't work, since the 7mm (STW) Shooting Times Westerner has been on the books for decades.
Ron is the man! the 6.8 western had it's match but gun maker/ammo mfg did not like it. The 270 WSM. the barrel twist is better in the 6.8 for heaver bullets, but the 270 WSM with barnes bullet was a charm for me. I understand their was a patten rights dispute and ultimately killed off the 270 wsm. the 280ai is a great round but I think the 7 prc has smoked it now! great work Jim!
Eastern North Carolina Black Bears routinely run over 400 pounds. In the western part of the state, they are more often 250 pounds. .30-30 or .35 Remington are pretty good in the mountains, down east you want something more like a 7mm magnum or a .30-06.
Caribou go down fairly easy, 270, 6.5 cm, and 7m-08 all work great, but unless you’re hunting them in the winter, you need something for grizzly bears as well. That is why the 300 wm is about the smallest most people use. The 338 wm it what most use. The biggest issue with the 338 in Alaska is finding ammo for it.
When I first got back into hunting- shooting, the WSM cartridges were very popular. Now they seem to have almost disappeared. That's always the risk of something new. Even if they are an excellent cartridge it doesn't mean that they are going to make it in the long run. Rifles chambered in the older tried and true cartridges on the other hand have the advantage of existing already in the hundreds of thousands, so even if they're popularity dips for a bit they have the numbers to ride out the waves of newbies.
Exactly.... and the people who got those rifles cannot find ammo at all.. super expensive if they do. The wsssm, and rsaum especially. Better stick with the classics in my view
Loved the frequency that Ron mentioned the .270. Probably my all around favorite. The last elk hunt my primary elk rifle (.300WSM) was damaged and I used the back up .270 with a 150 Gr Trophy Bonded tip successfully. Speaking of trophy bonded tips, Federal use to make a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw that my .270 loved. Can you recommend a good comparable bullet. Federal said the trophy bonded tip was basically the same bullet but my Rifle does not agree from a performance stand point. Enjoyed the presentation
I would love to go hunting with both of them. I've hunted for 40 years with a higher than normal kill/harvest rate. The Good Lord has blessed me. Having said that, I think I would feel like such a beginner hunting with these guys.
I really like Ron and his knowledge is insane and I learn so much from him. But, I do feel when he talks about cartridges he often speaks on very uncommon and not readily available. I feel as if an avid hunter you cannot relate to this when most of your bullets are bought off the shelf. That being said, I’m sure these cartridges are great. But I feel like other than pronghorn and others. A .270/.308/ 30-06 can be used for all these animals, as opposed to these random cartridges the common man never seen or even heard of
I'm always amazed with Ron's knowledge about rifle rounds! He is a perfect example of perfection on what he loves. When he talks about rifle rounds, he makes me second guess myself every time. I'm all over the place because of him. Haha darn Ron ...
Absolutely jealous that y'all were raised in a hunting family. I feel like there's so much to learn about hunting that it's impossible for me to do it by myself.
Good one: Calculus (hates versatility of .308) + this is the best rifle ever, except (3-weeks later) there's negative issues I haven't mentioned that everyone needs to know about. Great video!
Great discussion. Fun. For larger game I basically only have 4 calibers available to me. 223, 243, 30-30 and 7mm win mag. Wouldn’t mind 270 or 308 but I don’t really need either one. I have stayed away from harder to find calibers on purpose.
I’ve been around guns my whole life and own many. And I still haven’t even heard of many of the rounds mentioned here. Always nice to learn something new!
These two are the reason I ended up with the rifle and caliber I got and I gotta say I love my franchi momentum elite. Just took out a 4” plate at 400 yards thanks for the honest reviews keep it up
What a great show! I've seen a few of your videos - but this one cinched my subscription to your channel. One caliber not even discussed -- 45/70 is my all-time fav for Black Bear hunting in tight quarters in Manitoba. Great dialogue!
My dad has an 1885 in .300 WSM that he rebuilt a custom forend for because it was cracked, shot a 3.5 inch 5 shot group at 770 yards with it. Insanely accurate rifles
Honestly I could likely get away with two rifles. Savage Storm LW 7mm-08 7 lb with scope, mounts, sling and ammo. Husqvarna M96 9.3x62mm 9.5 lb with scope, mounts, sling and ammo.
I go with where you live and what you can afford. For years I used the old .303 Lee for everything the rifle was dirt cheep and so was the ammunition. I used it for everything from gophers to bison. Lol yes a little overwhelming for gophers but fun
This is awesome, I have learned more about hunting, shooting and guns from the two of you than I have anywhere else on the internet combined, it really made my day when I hopped on and saw this on my feed!
WDM Bell killed everything in Africa with the 7x57 and 6.5 mm Manlicher FMJ ammo. He did not know that he needed a different cartridge for each game animal species.
And he used plain old military FMJ ammo. He knew game anatomy and the limits of his rifle. He was not subject to the guns and ammo propaganda which tries to sell new rifles and ammo.
To add to this, people only ever hear or read of his many successes with these small cartridges. rarely if ever do you hear about all the times things went wrong, where an appropriate caliber (375 H&H and up) would have resulted in a kill
@@Francoisdumon458 Most people can barely tolerate 30-06 recoil let alone 375 H&H. They flinch and miss the vital spots, ,while with a 6.5 or 7x67 they'd hit where they are aiming.
Fun video. I like them all mentioned. While Im not a die hard "25" shooter.... it like the 270, does a lot! Most any 30 caliber will do the job. I see very little difference between a 280, and a 280 improved. So my pick in the 7mm.... is a standard 280. If I want a compact rifle, then I'd lean towards a 7mm-08 Funny though.... I hunt with 6.5s, 358s, and 30 calibers anymore... But I still agree with whatever you like to hunt with. Its more about the rifle, than the calibers.
The only thing I take issue with is saying all eastern hunters don't shoot over 150 yards. Agriculture fields and cutovers offer a lot of longer range shots as well as gas and electric lines. My average shot at deer is probably around 250 yards.
@backfire I take caribou with 222rem and 243win - worth noting I am an indigenous hunter and this is within hunting regulations where I am and each one I've taken dropped in it's tracks
Great video Jim! Didn’t know you were in St. George. Going to be staying in St. George for a week in December with the family. Looking forward to seeing your part of the country! 👍
I think the key to the whole shooting match (forgive me) is what Ron mentioned near the end when talking about elephant. He said, What if it’s not a perfect shot? I think that is critical to all of these discussions. We’ve all had or seen “perfect” shots, and we’ve all had or seen shots that went a bit awry, for lots of reasons. Any of the lighter cartridges will do the trick under ideal circumstances. Like the .243 for elk. Shorter distance, broadside, standing still, low wind, very accurate shot placement. Done. But they also talk about the investment in these hunts. Hard to get and expensive tags, travel and lodging, time off work, tough terrain. And you finally find that 400 trophy class bull, but he’s at four hundred yards, and or the wind is cranking up, and or shot placement isn’t perfect, and or (and this is the big one) it’s a quartering shot. Having the horsepower to overcome those factors and still put one in the boiler room…. that is where the .300 and .338 Win Mags (and comparable heavy hitters) really earn their keep. And where the cost of a slightly heavy rifle and some additional recoil can pay off.
I just took two whitetail bucks with 450 Bushmaster using Federal 300 gr in southern Michigan’s no rifle zone. One was at 30 yards the other at 160. The results were impressive.
Also, in a video no longer available here, I saw Ron Spomer take an Elk with a Mossberg Patriot 7 mm Rem Mag. A colleague of mine took an Aoudad Sheep with his .300 Win Mag. It turned and charged at him. By the time he got a second round chambered, the beast dropped. He ran 30 yards on that last heartbeat.
Go to learbackfire.com/ or call 800-707-4575 to receive up to $15,000 in FREE bonus metals with a qualified purchase.
You wrote on your site not to anneal because there is no accuracy gain and your brass doesnt last as long. I disagree. I have some cases with 20-30 reloading's due to good annealing. Annealing keeps neck tension way more accurate seating bullets. Annealing stops necks from splitting.
@@jonlennon3348 - If I wrote that annealing made brass NOT last as long, that was certainly a mistake. Where did you read that? The only purpose of annealing is TO make the brass last longer. I do stand by the thought that annealing doesn't have an impact on accuracy--at least from what I've seen, and that's also supported by many others who have tested it.
You are talking to a benchrester. It does make a difference as you seat bullets you can feel the difference but you have to use a pound force gage as you seat so you can sort them by seating pressure. Now did I read your writings wrong,I may have but I do resect what you do just trying to spread knowledge from my end.@@backfire
I can't believe Ron was on your Canadian Communist informercial channel 🤷🏽♂️
@@nunzionapoli6325What are you talking about? Is BF against certain firearms?
I love the fact Ron is not afraid of new tech but still loves and appreciates the old stuff.
He's being politically, I mean ballistically correct.
@@TheNutzandBoltz Stop triggering me!
LOL, We aren't comparing phasers to slingshots here. Still a bullet and gunpowder.
Not much has changed since the advent of smokeless powder. The 125 year old 30-06 operates at the same if not greater pressures than many newer cartridges and has similar performance to other, newer ones of the same powder capacity.
To call anything cartridge related new tech is almost like calling a slightly different tread pattern on a tire a breakthrough in wheel technology. That's not even hyperbole.
The collab I’ve always wanted.
I would love to see a collab with Paul Harrell. That would be hilarious.
There’s a great long interview with Jim on Ron’s podcast!!
That was awesome..!!! Thanks Ron.. Thanks Jim..!!!
Came here to say exactly that.
No kidding lol so cool
The Cougar, a good bottle of wine works nicely.
😂
Your overspending. A cheap bottle of mad dog 20/20 will work on most. Or if your feeling romantic strawberry hill Boones farm 👍
Ayyy
Some can be had with a simple box of wine 😂
@@Boomhower89you are confusing sweat hogs with cougars
Important consideration is how easy it is to get ammo everywhere. Every little store that has ammo will have .308, 30-06, 270 win, and 300 win mag. The best for North America hunts is any of these.
6.5 creedmoor is on that list now too
@ericj6636 I also missed 7mm rem mag and 30-30.
100% other then 3030 I don’t think I can find anything Ron said unless I’m driving and hour or teo
I missed a few animals, so I texted Ron for an update 😀 284 Win. Or 280 AI for sheep, any 7mm mag for moose and plains game, but 300 WSM also excellent. Anything 243 win or larger for cougar.
300 Win Mag is also a solid choice for sheep. And .243 Win is ideal not only for cougar, but also white tail (fixes the trajectory issue of heavier lever gun bullets).
6.5 creed
Thanks!
300 WSM is my all around one gun. Lightweight mountain rifle setup with a brake; handles beautifully. I just recently moved from factory ammo (180 Norma BondStrike) to start handloading. I can go up or down for species as needed.
Did you cover brown bear?
Ron is an absolute legend!!! I talked to him at the whitetail & spring turkey spectacular show here in MI years ago when I just started reloading for my 7mm REM Mag and was having trouble getting anything to shoot well out of it. Ron turned me on to tha Barnes TTSX and that was the ticket. Since then I’ve harvested antelope, deer, bear, elk and moose all with a 140 grain round! THANKS RON!!!!
Thanks a great story!
I like that he engages in his comment section too. He's replied to me twice.
Great show. I have known Jimmy since he was a young teenager. My wife told I can’t call him Jimmy anymore. He is a real and sincere guy. He is like he seams. I remember his first gun purchase. He got his mom to buy one for each member of the family. Good job Jimmy.
You can ALWAYS call me Jimmy 😊
I'm with Ron on the 25-06. Such a great and underrated round when it was created!
I'm a romantic, so I'm partial to the .257 Roberts. Still firmly appreciative of the quarter-bore though! Highly underrated these days
If I was just gonna hunt deer and antelope, the occasional yote and that once in a lifetime mountain goat tag, it would be the 25-06.
My father just told me about this! Didn't even know it existed
if you have ammo for years
2506 invented in the 1920s , legitimized by Remington in 1969 and only now getting fast twist barrels & high bc bullets ??? Talk about neglected !! The newbies today haven't heard of it & for hunting varmints and big game up to mule 🦌 it's more versatile than the 6.5 !! Had one since 1973 & no regrets! I'm a long time reloader so great ammo is readily available !
Two of my favorite channels in one spot! Subscribed to both for a long time.
💯
My wife used a 6.8 western on an elk this year. It did its job very efficiently. She used the 165 Accubond.
308 for everything they talked about. There’s so many options and so many different rifles made in 308. It’s a tried and true caliber that has earned its place for a reason.
Yup, for those of us who can afford 1 rifle it is the one to have!
Well this isn't about if it's good for an animal, it's about the exact perfect match for a certain animal
@@wokedog1799 I understand but not a single pick for the .308?!!! Booooo 😄
@brandonbrown6544 as stated above, .308 is a damn fine generalist round, you can make it do anything you can think of, but it is beaten out in some way in every category by other cartridges that exist. This is also the personal opinion of both of these guys
308 is a damn fine cartridge. but if i had to pick a rifle that i could only have one and hunt every species on this list it would probably be something with a little more zip. such as 7 rem mag. and thats only because i hate to say that the 30-06 is more versatile than the 308.
You have the Legend Ron Spomer on the channel this is incredible. The knowledge this man has is incredible!!! Just when I thought your channel couldn’t get any better lol
Ok Jimmy boy, when we meet in Monticello in March before pd season closes I’ll bring my savage 17hmr Thumbhole semi auto along with the Volquartsen semi 17wsm. 350 yards/450 yards respectively for those and the abolt 204 good out to 700+ yards. All are dependent on wind of course. If we miss March we’ll have to move to July which is ok as well. And just to show you my heart is in the right place I’ll meet you at Powell in May for a couple days chasing bass. Of course…that single SIL may need to be invited…😅
These domestic hunting seasons are extremely abbreviated and season are short. Im poor and have to be practical so its 270win, 308win, and 30-06. Its all about logistics and economy for me. Available factory ammo and components. Pick one and go forth. Instead of buying rifles and junk a good pair of footwear and good optics are better investments.
My dad lived in Alaska for years and in different places. He told me the Inuit natives loved .243 for Caribou.
243 is great
Seen a lot of 243 or 30-06 for Caribou in Alaska. More about ammo availability than any other factor. Villages are isolated and shipments are few and far between. Neither cartridge breaks the bank also.
Love .243
I have grown to appreciate both of these guys so much. Ron is a living legend! Also happy to have VonBenedikt making appearances on RSO these days. We are witnessing greatness guys!
Deer ..THE 270 WINCHESTER!
I admit that I am addicted - I watch Ron Spomer Outdoors, Backfire and WhoTeeWho every single day for new content. All supremely knowledgeable and presentations are not preachy or criticizing. Thank you Jim, Ron and Adam!
270 does ALL of them, and very well at that. Good enough for Jack, then it's good enough for me. Guarantee that Ron will agree...
I'm a 270 guy myself and I'm not afraid to use it on anything. The only issue is getting within a range for it to be effective. Such as elk. Probably want to be under 300 yards, and for me, 200 yards is preferable. But to know the limitations of the caliber and bullet choice is key.
@maddawgnoll so you feel comfortable in Alaska with your 270, probly a 140 grain bullet?
@@concreteandgrading ya sure. Why not? Might use 150 gr. But my gun shoots best with the 130 SST. I do have a 44 mag that would be on me
@@concreteandgrading it's not the ideal choice, I get it. But it's capable. It's my go to hunting caliber and I'm very confident with it and my Tikka
I agree. I am a comfortable guy at 300yds. I use a .308 because until the kids are gone and I move out of town I don't shoot enough to trust myself farther. Knowing what your limitations are is far more important than the gun. I sincerely believe the average shooter owns a gun way more capable than they ever will be and I don't care what the cartridge is, people just listen to these guys and say well I can do that. In fact they cant because these guys shoot more in a week than most people do in a year. I am not saying there are not really good shooters out there they just tend to be rare. @@maddawgnoll
Fantastic interview. I was surprised there was no mention of .300 Win Mag or 6.5x55 Swede
Appreciate the allusion to the native people in Alaska, i'm much more familiar with the Inuk from Nunavut, worked up there couple years and made many good friends up there! They're amazing hunters, truly have a 6th sense for hunting, but same thing on the east side of the ice rink, .223, .308 is what they all use. Their general rule of thumb is .223 for everything Caribou and smaller, .308 for everything above, that including Muskox, Polar Bear and large sea mammals like Beluga, Narwal and Seals, very impressive especially considering the thickness of the skin and blubber of sea mammals.
Great content as usual, loving these uploads with Ron, cheers from Northern Quebec!
Yeah, doesn't seem to matter really,at least within a certain threshold. Shot placement is key.
Love seeing your content young man. Hope your parents are good.
Now about Ron, you just can not fake wisdom. He is one that stands out among all the great outdoorsman. I watch you both every time you put out shows.
Once a soldier
Always a soldier
👍👍👍👌👌👌
Ron is so knowledgeable yet so humble. Very much appreciate you sir!
Yes he hates the 308 win
@@titomish5914I came here to say "except he unabashedly hates on the 308"
Why would anyone care if he likes, or dislikes, any cartridge?
@@lrac7751 no one does or are we saying we care??
@@titomish5914 It seemed to me like you cared about what cartridge he dislikes
Thank you so much for the 7mm mag comments. I’ve used a Winchester in that caliber since the late 70s for mule deer and elk here in Utah and have never wanted anything else with me.
Absolutely loved this video. Jim Harmer and Ton Spomer together, discussing their favorite cartridges for specific animals. Doesn't get any better.
Ron and Jim - I went on my first Antelope hunt a couple weeks ago and took a 6.5 creedmoor. Used the 143gr eldx. Double-lung and complete pass through at 260 yards
I has a pass through on an antelope buck with a 123 grain SST from my 6.5 Grendel a couple weeks ago . Dropped him quick !
I grew up in southwest Colorado and had two rifles, a 30-30 and a 30-06. What I carried depended on WHERE I was hunting versus what I was hunted. When I was hunting in the brush country I carried my 30-30. All shots were close and with the brush you had to be fast. All other times I carried my 30-06. I've taken deer, bear and elk with the '06 and deer with the 30-30. In the brush I never saw an elk and the bear was gone before I realized it was there.
It's nice to see the 6.8 western getting some love! Content creators don't talk about this caliber nearly enough. 👍🏼
The 6.8 Western cartridge is truly a silly idea, so I'm not surprised it died. Browning/Winchester are the same company and no other company wanted to support it. Pretty much died before the first rifle hit the market. Laughable!
@@yooper7753 your a silly idea
@yooper7753 for the record barnes is looking at producing ammo for this cartridge and Christensen builds rifles in 6.8 now as do a few other smaller brands
@@Stewart7516 WOW you're original. 👏
@@Stewart7516 It won't matter. Too little, too late.
I do feel bad for the regular consumer tricked into buying a 6.8 Western firearm.
Been shooting a 30-06 paired with a 4x12 Leupold and Barnes bullets for decades here in North Idaho. I use the 175gr Barnes LRX loads now but used TTSX for many years.
Dumped everything from massive Whitetail bucks on the run at 100yds, to a Spike bull at 500yds, to a 500lb fall Black Bear (a 6'11 colorphase that weighed 470lbs gutted) at 400yds. The old 30-06 has done everything ive EVER asked of it.
To me 500yds is my limit ANYWAYS, and the edge of it.
I also use my 30-06 sometimes for coyotes and varmints usin mil Surp FMJs just for fun, tho i typically use my M4 for that.
And I do shoot farther than 500yds its not that im not capable. I shoot out to 700yds on targets with my 556 Geissele M4 and my 7.62x51 AR10 but on big game animals 500 is a long long poke. I can always get within 500yds in my experience. But if i can get to 400 im much happier.
No reason for me to EVER change. I mean, plus i just have way too much 30-06 ammo stocked now to ever change my inventory 😂 lol
good vid. As for caribou, when I was in my poor youth I shot a boo at 350yds with my 30-30. Yes, he ran 1/2 mile before he dropped and I'd never do that again. Was hunting in the Aleutian Islands where all shots are long range. My partner that day shot one from same herd as me with a 7mm Rem Mag and his dropped like a rock. I learned a lot that day.
My Dad is my hero, Ron Spomer is second place! Great, interesting and informative segment. Thank you Jim!
Ron Sooner and Jim Harmer my two favorite You Tube hosts on the same video. It doesn’t get any better!
Ron's experience reminds me of my Dad. Dad got his gunsmith license right after getting out of the Navy in 56. His handloading manual was Lyman's 2nd edition - he instilled in us a love for cartridges like the .220 Swift, .257 Roberts, 7x57 Mauser, .30-06, and anything Gibbs and Ackley. I love Ron's appreciation of the grand, old cartridges. I also appreciate the perspective Jim brings to the table. Ron isn't an old fogey and shows he isn't locked in a time warp. Jim, I'm new to your channel and I love it.🎯
When I had my custom rifle built, I switched from 7 rem mag to a 7SAUM with a longer throat over a 7PRC. So far I’ve been pleased 22in barrel getting 2830 out of it with a 180 Berger hybrid.
Same here, good choice
Whenever my all-around favorite, the .358 Winchester, gets mentioned, I'm happy. Great list!
Way cool to see you and Mr. Spomer together. Your influence and contacts are growing fast!
On a side note, I saw you at Al’s last week and was going to say hello and let you know I really enjoy what you do but you were with your family and I didn’t want to interrupt family time! Thanks for the great content.
Thanks to both of you. This is one of my favorite topics. Played this game with my oldest son when he took me on a Colorado mule deer hunt. What a great time. Jim, I haven’t shot a caribou either. Want to go?
Thanks for sharing.
Great discussion!!! Truly hard to beat for 2 reasons the 30-06’. 1st easily obtained factory ammo loaded from 120gr to 220gr with every type of bullets available. 2nd this ammo is in every big, little, out of the way Mom and Pop store basically around the world. It’s not the sexy choice and the newest latest greatest fanciest cartridge out there it just works on everything everywhere.
In most of Sub Saharan Africa it's more often than not the only caliber you can find.
Way better options now days over dated 3006. 300 prc 7 prc 65 prc
@@lukeclement1310 Can you walk into any backwoods general store and find 300 PRC?
@@nucleargrizzly1776I can’t find 300 prc at any gun shop in a city of 250,000 people.
@@taphillips75 That's why now I stay clear of calibers that haven't been popular for a decade or so. Got 9x23 Winchester and 6x25 Dillon barrels for Glocks and 1911s that are pretty much useless.
Is there anything better than watching Ron Spomer and Jim Harmer on the same YT video? That was exceptionally entertaining and informative!
loved Ron's picks for game... especially the 17 HMR
Ron has a plethora of knowledge. It's fun to debate the cartridge for each species. All of them work great as shot placement is king. I use the 300 WM for everything except varmints.Not that it's superior but I know how it shoots with my hand loads. A 180gr at 3000fps is devastating on everything and I know the drops out to 500 yards.. That's the most important factor.
Being a 7mag owner and just now getting into distance a 7PRC looks very attractive to me. Something about lomg range is so fun even if it is just plinking 😊
I'm not far ahead of you. Long time 7RemMag owner. Now have two 7PRCs and 2 on the way. Whatever you do, build it. Don't buy factory made UNLESS the builder uses the Alex Wheeler improved reamer which is better than the original SAAMI spec reamer. The SAAMI spec reamers for 7PRC, 6.5PRC, 300PRC create chambers that get to pressure too soon, you get clickers, etc.
The recoil isn't worth the benefits, IMO.
@@waynemensen4252 can put a brake on it. I don't find the recoil to be bad. May be on par with a 30-06 with a 165 bullet. But, both of my 7PRCs do have larger contour barrels. One is a Brux #5, the other is a Hart #6
@@Accuracy1st you carry that chasing elk? What do they weigh?
@@waynemensen4252 Not yet but I would if it came down to it. I've hunted CO and WY and AZ with 9 pound rifles. Not ideal but I manage. I pack light otherwise so total hunting pack wt doable. They are not light wt by any means. I've not weighed them. What I had in mind for the 2 I have is hunting over the long bean and corn fields where I hunt down south from a blind. Can easily shoot 800 yards. The additional 7PRCs coming are more for CO, WY, UT hunting in the mountains. These will be on a Terminus Zeus QC action with a Brux #3 and the others will mate to the same action but with a Benchmark #3. I have a K&P #4 on the way and Ordering another Brux #2 soon
300 win mag will pretty much do it all for me.
Very interesting. I've always stuck to my 30/06 for everything bigger than a coyote but it is definitely a heavy rifle, and can cause to much damage. I've learned a lot from this video
Wow I totally agree with Ron about the best elk and mule deer cartridges. I think the reason your beloved 6.8 Western fizzled is 2-fold: The name doesn’t resonate with many people and they associate it more with a 6.5mm. And the .277 caliber itself leaves much to be desired in component selection. If they had made it the 7mm Western it probably would have done better.
The 6.8 Western cartridge is truly a silly idea, so I'm not surprised it died. Browning/Winchester are the same company and no other company wanted to support it. Pretty much died before the first rifle hit the market. Laughable!
Calling it 7mm Western wouldn't work, since the 7mm (STW) Shooting Times Westerner has been on the books for decades.
Or it might have done better marketing-wise if they had stuck the PRC label on it - like 6.8 PRC or .270 PRC.
30 Western
@@Cjtarinelli PRC name belongs to Hornady.
Ron is the man! the 6.8 western had it's match but gun maker/ammo mfg did not like it. The 270 WSM. the barrel twist is better in the 6.8 for heaver bullets, but the 270 WSM with barnes bullet was a charm for me. I understand their was a patten rights dispute and ultimately killed off the 270 wsm. the 280ai is a great round but I think the 7 prc has smoked it now! great work Jim!
Exactly I have a 270wsm cannot find ammo anywhere the
I just bought a 7mmprc excited about it
Eastern North Carolina Black Bears routinely run over 400 pounds. In the western part of the state, they are more often 250 pounds. .30-30 or .35 Remington are pretty good in the mountains, down east you want something more like a 7mm magnum or a .30-06.
Caribou go down fairly easy, 270, 6.5 cm, and 7m-08 all work great, but unless you’re hunting them in the winter, you need something for grizzly bears as well. That is why the 300 wm is about the smallest most people use. The 338 wm it what most use. The biggest issue with the 338 in Alaska is finding ammo for it.
Makes sense. You are not only carrying a rifle that can take your intended game, but also that can take down the mighty grizzly if you are threatened.
I love the cartridge discussions. Great video. Ron Spomer is a fountain of knowledge.
When I first got back into hunting- shooting, the WSM cartridges were very popular. Now they seem to have almost disappeared. That's always the risk of something new. Even if they are an excellent cartridge it doesn't mean that they are going to make it in the long run. Rifles chambered in the older tried and true cartridges on the other hand have the advantage of existing already in the hundreds of thousands, so even if they're popularity dips for a bit they have the numbers to ride out the waves of newbies.
Exactly.... and the people who got those rifles cannot find ammo at all.. super expensive if they do. The wsssm, and rsaum especially. Better stick with the classics in my view
270 is my choice for over 50 years hunting everything living in Idaho
Allright 6.8 western for the win
I love these kind of discussions, super fun to think about. Thanks guys for the great content.
2 of my favorite gun-tubers together. A great collaboration with an interesting topic! Doesn't get better than this! 🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
Loved the frequency that Ron mentioned the .270. Probably my all around favorite. The last elk hunt my primary elk rifle (.300WSM) was damaged and I used the back up .270 with a 150 Gr Trophy Bonded tip successfully. Speaking of trophy bonded tips, Federal use to make a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw that my .270 loved. Can you recommend a good comparable bullet. Federal said the trophy bonded tip was basically the same bullet but my Rifle does not agree from a performance stand point. Enjoyed the presentation
I would love to go hunting with both of them. I've hunted for 40 years with a higher than normal kill/harvest rate. The Good Lord has blessed me. Having said that, I think I would feel like such a beginner hunting with these guys.
270 weatherby mag is a great all around cartridge if you can get past ammo prices
I really like Ron and his knowledge is insane and I learn so much from him. But, I do feel when he talks about cartridges he often speaks on very uncommon and not readily available. I feel as if an avid hunter you cannot relate to this when most of your bullets are bought off the shelf. That being said, I’m sure these cartridges are great. But I feel like other than pronghorn and others. A .270/.308/ 30-06 can be used for all these animals, as opposed to these random cartridges the common man never seen or even heard of
I'm always amazed with Ron's knowledge about rifle rounds! He is a perfect example of perfection on what he loves. When he talks about rifle rounds, he makes me second guess myself every time. I'm all over the place because of him. Haha darn Ron ...
Absolutely jealous that y'all were raised in a hunting family. I feel like there's so much to learn about hunting that it's impossible for me to do it by myself.
Best way to learn is to get out there and hunt my friend. There are lots of resources to help you along but experience is irreplaceable.
Good one: Calculus (hates versatility of .308) + this is the best rifle ever, except (3-weeks later) there's negative issues I haven't mentioned that everyone needs to know about. Great video!
R Spomer...Living Legend
Great discussion. Fun. For larger game I basically only have 4 calibers available to me. 223, 243, 30-30 and 7mm win mag. Wouldn’t mind 270 or 308 but I don’t really need either one. I have stayed away from harder to find calibers on purpose.
He should be knighted Sir Ron Spomer of the kingdom of hunting. What a wealth of knowledge
I’ve been around guns my whole life and own many. And I still haven’t even heard of many of the rounds mentioned here. Always nice to learn something new!
These two are the reason I ended up with the rifle and caliber I got and I gotta say I love my franchi momentum elite. Just took out a 4” plate at 400 yards thanks for the honest reviews keep it up
What a great show! I've seen a few of your videos - but this one cinched my subscription to your channel. One caliber not even discussed -- 45/70 is my all-time fav for Black Bear hunting in tight quarters in Manitoba. Great dialogue!
This episode is everything I’ve always needed.
My dad has an 1885 in .300 WSM that he rebuilt a custom forend for because it was cracked, shot a 3.5 inch 5 shot group at 770 yards with it. Insanely accurate rifles
Just use a 270
Love the collaboration between you two all stars. And Ron been there and done that on so many hunts he's living the dream!
Would have loved to have heard Ron's opinion on best round for moose
I think he’s said 7 Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag before for moose.
One of your best guest videos EVER!! Well done Jim!! WELL DONE!!
Antelope 6BR, Whitetail/Mule 3006/7mm/308, Elk 7mm/300, Blackbear 300/3006, Moose 7mm/300, Sasqautch 375hh
I don’t even hunt but I love these videos. Would love to learn but it seems like it really helps to know someone who knows what he is doing.
Try whitetail easiest hunting out there
I have a dream, two legends discussing European calibers 6.5x55; 7x57; 7x64; 7x65R; 8x57; 9.3x62; 9.3x74R etc.
Awesome seeing two of my favorites in hunting related shooting videos collaborating!
Awesome and informative. Two great hunters having a talk.
Love Ron casually mentioning Darrel Holland. Hometown gun smith, little tiny Powers, OR.
I grew up in Coquille, near Powers. My buddies and I loved hunting in that area and swimming in the S Fork of the Coquille. I loved that area
Honestly I could likely get away with two rifles.
Savage Storm LW 7mm-08
7 lb with scope, mounts, sling and ammo.
Husqvarna M96 9.3x62mm
9.5 lb with scope, mounts, sling and ammo.
Yeah that’ll do it.
I go with where you live and what you can afford. For years I used the old .303 Lee for everything the rifle was dirt cheep and so was the ammunition. I used it for everything from gophers to bison. Lol yes a little overwhelming for gophers but fun
Ron is a national treasure.
This is awesome, I have learned more about hunting, shooting and guns from the two of you than I have anywhere else on the internet combined, it really made my day when I hopped on and saw this on my feed!
Always enjoy Spomer videos, excellent collab
My dad hunts with fail safe bullets to this day in 7mm mag. Loves em
WDM Bell killed everything in Africa with the 7x57 and 6.5 mm Manlicher FMJ ammo. He did not know that he needed a different cartridge for each game animal species.
I doubt any of us can match Bell. His skill, cajones, or luck. He was a unique man
And he used plain old military FMJ ammo. He knew game anatomy and the limits of his rifle. He was not subject to the guns and ammo propaganda which tries to sell new rifles and ammo.
To add to this, people only ever hear or read of his many successes with these small cartridges. rarely if ever do you hear about all the times things went wrong, where an appropriate caliber (375 H&H and up) would have resulted in a kill
@@Francoisdumon458 Most people can barely tolerate 30-06 recoil let alone 375 H&H. They flinch and miss the vital spots, ,while with a 6.5 or 7x67 they'd hit where they are aiming.
Fun video. I like them all mentioned. While Im not a die hard "25" shooter.... it like the 270, does a lot!
Most any 30 caliber will do the job.
I see very little difference between a 280, and a 280 improved. So my pick in the 7mm.... is a standard 280.
If I want a compact rifle, then I'd lean towards a 7mm-08
Funny though.... I hunt with 6.5s, 358s, and 30 calibers anymore...
But I still agree with whatever you like to hunt with.
Its more about the rifle, than the calibers.
Big ol smile on your face talking to Ron 😂
The only thing I take issue with is saying all eastern hunters don't shoot over 150 yards. Agriculture fields and cutovers offer a lot of longer range shots as well as gas and electric lines. My average shot at deer is probably around 250 yards.
Great collaboration guys much respect for the opinions
Interesting. I don't understand hunting elephant but that's for another time to discuss. Interesting to learn about the 7mm prc.
@backfire I take caribou with 222rem and 243win - worth noting I am an indigenous hunter and this is within hunting regulations where I am and each one I've taken dropped in it's tracks
Great video Jim! Didn’t know you were in St. George. Going to be staying in St. George for a week in December with the family. Looking forward to seeing your part of the country! 👍
270 Win does it all with handloads.
I think the key to the whole shooting match (forgive me) is what Ron mentioned near the end when talking about elephant. He said, What if it’s not a perfect shot? I think that is critical to all of these discussions. We’ve all had or seen “perfect” shots, and we’ve all had or seen shots that went a bit awry, for lots of reasons. Any of the lighter cartridges will do the trick under ideal circumstances. Like the .243 for elk. Shorter distance, broadside, standing still, low wind, very accurate shot placement. Done. But they also talk about the investment in these hunts. Hard to get and expensive tags, travel and lodging, time off work, tough terrain. And you finally find that 400 trophy class bull, but he’s at four hundred yards, and or the wind is cranking up, and or shot placement isn’t perfect, and or (and this is the big one) it’s a quartering shot. Having the horsepower to overcome those factors and still put one in the boiler room…. that is where the .300 and .338 Win Mags (and comparable heavy hitters) really earn their keep. And where the cost of a slightly heavy rifle and some additional recoil can pay off.
I just took two whitetail bucks with 450 Bushmaster using Federal 300 gr in southern Michigan’s no rifle zone. One was at 30 yards the other at 160. The results were impressive.
Watch you two all the time thanks for sharing all of you're videos with us!!
Also, in a video no longer available here, I saw Ron Spomer take an Elk with a Mossberg Patriot 7 mm Rem Mag.
A colleague of mine took an Aoudad Sheep with his .300 Win Mag. It turned and charged at him. By the time he got a second round chambered, the beast dropped. He ran 30 yards on that last heartbeat.
I love the 6.8spc, but the same thing about it. It just fizzled.
30-06 period