Thank you for sharing this look inside the production side of the board game hobby! It is a healthy reminder of all the work it takes to bring a game from concept to the table top.
It's not often you get a chance to see that side of the boardgaming industry! That was pretty interesting and rather shocking at how small of a footprint that the entire operation takes up in terms of building the components and boxes. Quite a bit of space for storage, however!
Im kinda feeling bad for all those ppl whos only workload is to put sheet of paper to the machine or so over and over every day :/ ... and especially when it seems some of those machines are not manualy operated but just time synced so they need to do it exactly the same ammount of time every time ... ppl who can work like this consistently for years have my huge respect
they work like that when they're being filmed. having worked with the chinese in a chinese-owned factory, you would be far less than impressed, lol. that's not to say they're lazy, but you have to have worked in factories to get how this is often just a dog-and-pony show when customers, higher-ups, and regulatory people show up.
typical factory work. this is light manufacturing. the most toxic thing here is the chinese guys hovering over your shoulder suffering from 'i'm better than you because i have a clipboard-itis.'
If you are still active here, can you give out some info about the card rounder machine, I have been trying to make some cards at home and I'm in awe at the effectiveness of that design, how does the die fit? where can I find that machine online? so I can make it myself
They're referred to as PMC machines (or PMC dies) after the leading manufacturer of the machines. It's a heavy duty steel die that cuts the cards to final size (not just rounding the corners).
and, that few dollars a day raised that third-world country out of squalor and poverty all thanks to capitalism. on paper china still claims to be third world, but there are technical reasons for that.
+gfshurts This is the factory that Mayday Games uses, it is about a 75 minute drive from my home in Suzhou, China. If you want to get a quote from them please email directly to seth@maydaygames.com and we can help you out :)
WOW there is a huge difference how Smash Up manufacture is cheaper than CGE. CGE uses more automation for certain steps. While Smash Up is more manual - higher chance of error but the end price is what matters.
Actually, that depends on the amount. If you order up to 5000 copies, CGE, or any company, even the largest ones will do anything manual. If you order more, it's better to make them automatically.
@@ryanbarker5217 As someone who lived in China for 6+ years and has visited dozens of factories, I would say you haven't worked with Chinese before. They are a very hard working people.
@@maydaygames some of the people i worked with were literally off the plane from china and was checking into work before they checked into their apartment. some were so backwards they didn't even know how to use a toilet, and that's not an exaggeration. many of them went back for a week for chinese new year, most of them couldn't speak english, and the owner of the plant tried to include the workers in a some traditions like those red envelopes. to accommodate them, the owner set up a chinese restaurant next door that was some weird quasi-public thing but not really, and i'd always find a group of them squatting in the docks eating with chopsticks. i worked next to these people for years, not to mention one i worked with before at a different place. you visited factories? i worked in 'em, we always did things a little different when customers or higher up visited. hell, sometimes we even put the safety guards back on, lol. i didn't find them to be particularly noteworthy, no moreso than a hard-working american. i'd find some asleep in little cubby holes they'd made with forklifts. studies show americans are pound-for-pound the hardest workers. i don't make it up, that's what they say. i've worked with straight-up chinese for years, worked right with them in arm's reach. big difference between them and us is shit quality parts didn't come back on us. anyway, i'd watched dozens of insider video of their factory work, and by-and-large in actual reality they're mythical work ethic is nonsense. try touring some american factories for balance, you'd see. i'd say you saw what they wanted you to see. i saw what's really the deal, what the score is on the daily, what they do, how they do it, their habits, methods, etc.. did i live there for six years? no, but i don't need to, i'm not looking at every aspect of their culture, i'm talking about factory work, and in that case i absolutely worked with chinese workers, not walked passed.
That depends on the costumer. Usually, Plastic coating, or PPO lamination is used on games that are going to be handle by kids. Now, on Boards and Boxes, It's a must to keep them in a good shape for a link time.
You are welcome to reach out to us directly and we will happily put you in touch with the factory. They can tell you of the hundreds of games from dozens of publishers they have made.
+William con M I've seen all these pieces of equipment running in factories in the States, and this factory is actually at least as pleasant, if not more so. There are factory jobs in your area (with great pay!) where you could see what I mean. Nothing wrong with this factory.
@@ryanbarker5217 that's a lot of assumption made of a stranger u've never met. u dont need to own a company to know the price of boardgames are ridiculous, u just need to compare it to other similar items, or made of similar materials.
@@ianw0ng it's only an assumption in the same realm as being a car mechanic who doesn't know how an engine works. don't get me wrong, i wasn't trying to sound rude. however, if you owned a business you would understand the economy of scale, and right there you'd know enough to 'get it' really without needing to go into other specifics. smaller companies often have higher costs. ha$bro can sell the basic 'monopoly' for $15 at walmart because they have no start-up costs, no marketing, and they know they'll sell x amount of units. 'the game of life: jurassic park edition' for $28 isn't going to sell nearly as well, but according to the bean counters and their formulas, that's the price in order to make their margins. 'clash of cultures: monumental edition' is a whopping $128... but made by some company call wizkids and clocks in at 9.5 pounds and 775 pieces, and obviously won't sell tens of thousands. 'lord of the rings' card game is a stupid $56 by another smaller company who has a license to pay for, and no doubt is trying to take advantage of a customer base used to paying inflated prices. is some of it charging more for being a hot ticket item? sure, of course. this is where non-business owners posit that it's not a good idea to over-price a product and lose customers, but they've never sat down and did the math based on actual numbers other than what they imagine them to be and made the conscious decision to go the asshole business route which, unfortunately, the math supports. this is where having a 'lord of the rings' license comes in very handy as there's a perception of quality suggested by the IP. bear in mind, too, that when it comes to game sold at retail, it's that retailer setting the price, not the game publisher. the retailer has to build in a lot of costs, e.g. paying for that floor space and when the game goes on sale/clearance down to the point where they may have to sell to a liquidator such as ollie's. at a walmart level, this is a science. that initial price has to pay for diminishing returns and provide some kind of margin, in other words it needs to somewhat balance itself out. sure, meeples don't cost that much to make just in themselves. and, no doubt there are a few who somehow take advantage (ha$bro, i'm looking at you), these indie publishers who are lucky to make it to the shelves of a hobby/specialty shop aren't getting rich off the typical deck builder or clever game mechanic or dumb party game unless you've got the next 'cards against humanity.' again, not to be rude or denigrating, but if you knew these kinds of things you would 'get it,' and me making 'assumptions' about your background is a pretty safe bet. when you say you don't need to own a company to be able to compare items in an entirely different retail area, basically comparing apples to oranges, well, yeah, you do need to own a business or run one to 'get it' if your naive level of understanding is 'none of it makes any difference if it's all the same materials.' even comparing it to similar items ignores all business realities. it's not like it's one guy and his wife running a 'business' out of his spare bedroom, selling tens of thousands of units, and pocketing $50 for each one. if that was true, everyone would be publishing their own games, eh? i won't pay $55 for a fucking card game. ever. but, to insinuate it's some kind of ridiculous scam just shows that you know less about the game publishing industry and business in general than i do, if that's possible.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Let's say a board game costs $50 at your local game store. Yes that is expensive, but you have to assume the factory charged the publisher just $10 to make it, the publisher had to ship it to the USA and store it in a warehouse and ship it to a distributor. The publisher will get 60% off MSRP, or $20 for the game. The factory makes $10 to make it, the publisher makes $10 to create the game, pay royalties to the inventor of the game, and pay storage and shipping from China to the USA and from their warehouse to the distributor. Then the distributor sells the game to the game store for $25. The distributor has to order the games from the publisher, store them in their warehouse and ship them to the stores. The stores have the mark up from $25 to $50. So to summarize for a $50 game: $10 -Factory $10 - Publisher $5 - Distributor $25 - Friendly Local Game Store The games are expensive to the end user but the factory is doing all of this work for around 20% of the MSRP.
We have had several games quoted from US factories and would love to produce things in the USA, but it is a simple equation to consider the cost of manufacturing abroad vs. domestically. The cost of manufacturing + shipping + taxes has always been less than in the USA for board games and most everything else that is work intensive unfortunately. Are you watching youtube on a computer or phone made in the USA? You could easily have an Iphone made in the USA but it would cost $5,000. Or you can buy one made abroad for $1,500. The market shows us that while people say they want to have things made in the USA, their purchasing habits say otherwise.
According to what I see on your website, you are based in the USA. Sorry, but, I just can't take joy in watching a video about a US company having their goods produced in a foreign country.
I hope you are using a US-made computer to type that out on then. Seriously though, if we were to shut down we would have to fire our US staff (4 full time employees) and my family would be out of its living too. We would gladly produce our products in the USA if we could. US minimum wage laws prohibit us from getting our products made for even twice what we pay in China. If our products could sell for four times their current MSRP then we could make the in the USA. Until either labor costs go down in the USA or MSRP goes up for USA made goods it just isn't likely to happen. Never shop at Walmart either K?
+Mayday Games I know all too well why companies choose to do this and I wish circumstances were different. I wish companies didn't have to do what you do. And I wish the ones who do didn't flaunt it with such pride as you do here. As I'm sure you already know based on your comments, it is extremely difficult to shop in this country and avoid buying products produced entirely in foreign countries, particularly games, which is why I have backed more than one of your products on Kickstarter and even ordered from your website (a mistake I won't make again after this). I shop at Wal-Mart sometimes, yes, but, I also shop at Union-based stores and support mom and pop stores and local merchants, as well.
take solace in the fact that because of capitalism -- the single economic mechanism that can dredge a third world country out of squalor -- these people now have a middle class.
@@specialkay7184 Fair enough. Our company employs 8 full time US employees and supports US graphic designers, board game inventors who we pay royalties to, and a bunch of other people like our payroll company, lawyer and others. We are building a warehouse in Utah that is being designed and constructed by a US company. Our US-based company has its goods produced in China, but if we are a US company employing US workers and contributing in a real way to the US economy.
![[ENG] How to produce a game? 🖨 With Stephen Wren, from Panda Game Manufacturing | Game On Tabletop](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lxmQoFUIzw0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for sharing this look inside the production side of the board game hobby! It is a healthy reminder of all the work it takes to bring a game from concept to the table top.
What’s sad about this video, is most of the people working in this warehouse facility will never play these games…
True. Let’s not forget that we can enjoy our $30, $50, $100 games because someone in China was paid literally pocket change per day to make them.
interesting to see all the machines, and the hand labor complementing them. The factory was less crowded than I would have expected.
WOW, that´s MUCH more work than I thought before I was the video.
i'd have loved to have all that natural light in a factory i ever worked in.
Thanks for posting this guys! And thanks for avoiding any Smash Up spoilers. :-D
I would like to see the factory where Kingdom Death miniatures are made.
Omg yes!!!!!
wow thats some amazing work. hats off to these people.
It's not often you get a chance to see that side of the boardgaming industry! That was pretty interesting and rather shocking at how small of a footprint that the entire operation takes up in terms of building the components and boxes. Quite a bit of space for storage, however!
Im kinda feeling bad for all those ppl whos only workload is to put sheet of paper to the machine or so over and over every day :/ ... and especially when it seems some of those machines are not manualy operated but just time synced so they need to do it exactly the same ammount of time every time ... ppl who can work like this consistently for years have my huge respect
they work like that when they're being filmed. having worked with the chinese in a chinese-owned factory, you would be far less than impressed, lol. that's not to say they're lazy, but you have to have worked in factories to get how this is often just a dog-and-pony show when customers, higher-ups, and regulatory people show up.
I love it, more videos like this please!
We have more coming. We will be posting at least two more follow up videos and plan to do an interview with some of the workers and the owner.
1:21 I need that lady to come and work for me for a few weeks lol
She really is incredible
That card cutter looks like something I'd loose my fingers in if I worked there.
Thanks for making this! Great to see it from that side.
does anyone know the adhesive used to stick the graphics onto the board? .. or what the machine at 2:55 is called
IS this Meijia?! this is the company I will be using!
Great video!
Very skilled workers! I hope the work environment isn't to toxic for them.
typical factory work. this is light manufacturing. the most toxic thing here is the chinese guys hovering over your shoulder suffering from 'i'm better than you because i have a clipboard-itis.'
This was fascinating.
If you are still active here, can you give out some info about the card rounder machine, I have been trying to make some cards at home and I'm in awe at the effectiveness of that design, how does the die fit? where can I find that machine online? so I can make it myself
They're referred to as PMC machines (or PMC dies) after the leading manufacturer of the machines. It's a heavy duty steel die that cuts the cards to final size (not just rounding the corners).
So THAT"s how Smash Up! Is made. Now all this video is missing is Discovery Channel's How It's Made Lady in the background.
thanks for sharing that's awesome
Interesting video!
For just a few dollars a day, you too can work in one of these factories.
It is low skilled labour, I remember when I used to sweep floors and clean for 0 pay but at least my boss gave me a roof and food
@@korniestpatch cool story bro
and, that few dollars a day raised that third-world country out of squalor and poverty all thanks to capitalism. on paper china still claims to be third world, but there are technical reasons for that.
I was imagining it looking more like Willy Wonka's candy factory except everything being made of cardboard and plastic, but this is good too.
What is the name of the company, can we have some contacts? 🙏
Great video
Plastic inserts inside box outsourced? Insights on manufacturing and materials for those?
All made possible by your local sweat shop
Kevin Queen Any shop or were do I need to find the shop what’s the name of shop I need to find one
I created a board game who knows a company I can go to to make the board for me ?? please help
Yes, they are gone. Bring the children workers back!
What type of paper do you use for the cards?
We can provide the automation prodution solution for you !
I wonder how many of these people have actually played copies of the games they help make.
They probably can't afford it
@@enfynet they probably can't understand it.
Anyone know which factory this is? WinGo? Panda? Something else?
+gfshurts This is the factory that Mayday Games uses, it is about a 75 minute drive from my home in Suzhou, China. If you want to get a quote from them please email directly to seth@maydaygames.com and we can help you out :)
WOW there is a huge difference how Smash Up manufacture is cheaper than CGE. CGE uses more automation for certain steps. While Smash Up is more manual - higher chance of error but the end price is what matters.
Actually, that depends on the amount. If you order up to 5000 copies, CGE, or any company, even the largest ones will do anything manual. If you order more, it's better to make them automatically.
None of these are boardgames; they're all card games. I came here wanting to see how the boards specifically were made, dagnabbit!
The boxes are made nearly the same way as the game boards. If you are looking how miniatures ae made, there are plenty of videos!
2022: I hope you guys now think about to produce somewhere else.
why?
What was said at 1:55?
+BrainchildDnB I think he said "Look she has her phone in a Dead Man's Draw Box". Dead Man's Draw is a game Mayday Games produces at that factory.
Made in China
Land of hard workers
@@pedro_navarro lol, just say you've never worked with them before
@@ryanbarker5217 As someone who lived in China for 6+ years and has visited dozens of factories, I would say you haven't worked with Chinese before. They are a very hard working people.
@@maydaygames some of the people i worked with were literally off the plane from china and was checking into work before they checked into their apartment. some were so backwards they didn't even know how to use a toilet, and that's not an exaggeration. many of them went back for a week for chinese new year, most of them couldn't speak english, and the owner of the plant tried to include the workers in a some traditions like those red envelopes. to accommodate them, the owner set up a chinese restaurant next door that was some weird quasi-public thing but not really, and i'd always find a group of them squatting in the docks eating with chopsticks. i worked next to these people for years, not to mention one i worked with before at a different place. you visited factories? i worked in 'em, we always did things a little different when customers or higher up visited. hell, sometimes we even put the safety guards back on, lol.
i didn't find them to be particularly noteworthy, no moreso than a hard-working american. i'd find some asleep in little cubby holes they'd made with forklifts.
studies show americans are pound-for-pound the hardest workers. i don't make it up, that's what they say. i've worked with straight-up chinese for years, worked right with them in arm's reach. big difference between them and us is shit quality parts didn't come back on us. anyway, i'd watched dozens of insider video of their factory work, and by-and-large in actual reality they're mythical work ethic is nonsense. try touring some american factories for balance, you'd see.
i'd say you saw what they wanted you to see. i saw what's really the deal, what the score is on the daily, what they do, how they do it, their habits, methods, etc.. did i live there for six years? no, but i don't need to, i'm not looking at every aspect of their culture, i'm talking about factory work, and in that case i absolutely worked with chinese workers, not walked passed.
Avoid plastic coating, please! Not good
That depends on the costumer. Usually, Plastic coating, or PPO lamination is used on games that are going to be handle by kids. Now, on Boards and Boxes, It's a must to keep them in a good shape for a link time.
太酷了
Are they legit, anybody here worked with them before ?
You are welcome to reach out to us directly and we will happily put you in touch with the factory. They can tell you of the hundreds of games from dozens of publishers they have made.
Panda?
+Karl Ruppelt This is the factory that Mayday Games uses, it is about a 75 minute drive from my home in Suzhou, China.
these people looks very sad and tired :(
+William con M They didn't look like that. It looked like working conditions of a normal factory in the States.
+Josh Keller Sureee...
+William con M I've seen all these pieces of equipment running in factories in the States, and this factory is actually at least as pleasant, if not more so. There are factory jobs in your area (with great pay!) where you could see what I mean. Nothing wrong with this factory.
+Josh Keller this is in China lol
We will do a follow up video with interviews of the factory worker and post it for you to find out more about their lives too.
still dont get why it's so expensive for something that is made of paper and tiny bits of wood.
because you'll pay the price or go without. you've never owned or run a company, that's why you don't get why it's so expensive.
@@ryanbarker5217 that's a lot of assumption made of a stranger u've never met. u dont need to own a company to know the price of boardgames are ridiculous, u just need to compare it to other similar items, or made of similar materials.
@@ianw0ng it's only an assumption in the same realm as being a car mechanic who doesn't know how an engine works.
don't get me wrong, i wasn't trying to sound rude. however, if you owned a business you would understand the economy of scale, and right there you'd know enough to 'get it' really without needing to go into other specifics.
smaller companies often have higher costs. ha$bro can sell the basic 'monopoly' for $15 at walmart because they have no start-up costs, no marketing, and they know they'll sell x amount of units. 'the game of life: jurassic park edition' for $28 isn't going to sell nearly as well, but according to the bean counters and their formulas, that's the price in order to make their margins. 'clash of cultures: monumental edition' is a whopping $128... but made by some company call wizkids and clocks in at 9.5 pounds and 775 pieces, and obviously won't sell tens of thousands. 'lord of the rings' card game is a stupid $56 by another smaller company who has a license to pay for, and no doubt is trying to take advantage of a customer base used to paying inflated prices.
is some of it charging more for being a hot ticket item? sure, of course. this is where non-business owners posit that it's not a good idea to over-price a product and lose customers, but they've never sat down and did the math based on actual numbers other than what they imagine them to be and made the conscious decision to go the asshole business route which, unfortunately, the math supports. this is where having a 'lord of the rings' license comes in very handy as there's a perception of quality suggested by the IP.
bear in mind, too, that when it comes to game sold at retail, it's that retailer setting the price, not the game publisher. the retailer has to build in a lot of costs, e.g. paying for that floor space and when the game goes on sale/clearance down to the point where they may have to sell to a liquidator such as ollie's. at a walmart level, this is a science. that initial price has to pay for diminishing returns and provide some kind of margin, in other words it needs to somewhat balance itself out.
sure, meeples don't cost that much to make just in themselves. and, no doubt there are a few who somehow take advantage (ha$bro, i'm looking at you), these indie publishers who are lucky to make it to the shelves of a hobby/specialty shop aren't getting rich off the typical deck builder or clever game mechanic or dumb party game unless you've got the next 'cards against humanity.'
again, not to be rude or denigrating, but if you knew these kinds of things you would 'get it,' and me making 'assumptions' about your background is a pretty safe bet. when you say you don't need to own a company to be able to compare items in an entirely different retail area, basically comparing apples to oranges, well, yeah, you do need to own a business or run one to 'get it' if your naive level of understanding is 'none of it makes any difference if it's all the same materials.' even comparing it to similar items ignores all business realities. it's not like it's one guy and his wife running a 'business' out of his spare bedroom, selling tens of thousands of units, and pocketing $50 for each one. if that was true, everyone would be publishing their own games, eh?
i won't pay $55 for a fucking card game. ever. but, to insinuate it's some kind of ridiculous scam just shows that you know less about the game publishing industry and business in general than i do, if that's possible.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Let's say a board game costs $50 at your local game store. Yes that is expensive, but you have to assume the factory charged the publisher just $10 to make it, the publisher had to ship it to the USA and store it in a warehouse and ship it to a distributor. The publisher will get 60% off MSRP, or $20 for the game. The factory makes $10 to make it, the publisher makes $10 to create the game, pay royalties to the inventor of the game, and pay storage and shipping from China to the USA and from their warehouse to the distributor. Then the distributor sells the game to the game store for $25. The distributor has to order the games from the publisher, store them in their warehouse and ship them to the stores.
The stores have the mark up from $25 to $50. So to summarize for a $50 game:
$10 -Factory
$10 - Publisher
$5 - Distributor
$25 - Friendly Local Game Store
The games are expensive to the end user but the factory is doing all of this work for around 20% of the MSRP.
Bring board game manufacturing (back?) home to the states. I’ll pay more if it means putting money back into American pockets and OUR economy
We have had several games quoted from US factories and would love to produce things in the USA, but it is a simple equation to consider the cost of manufacturing abroad vs. domestically. The cost of manufacturing + shipping + taxes has always been less than in the USA for board games and most everything else that is work intensive unfortunately.
Are you watching youtube on a computer or phone made in the USA? You could easily have an Iphone made in the USA but it would cost $5,000. Or you can buy one made abroad for $1,500. The market shows us that while people say they want to have things made in the USA, their purchasing habits say otherwise.
According to what I see on your website, you are based in the USA. Sorry, but, I just can't take joy in watching a video about a US company having their goods produced in a foreign country.
I hope you are using a US-made computer to type that out on then. Seriously though, if we were to shut down we would have to fire our US staff (4 full time employees) and my family would be out of its living too.
We would gladly produce our products in the USA if we could. US minimum wage laws prohibit us from getting our products made for even twice what we pay in China. If our products could sell for four times their current MSRP then we could make the in the USA. Until either labor costs go down in the USA or MSRP goes up for USA made goods it just isn't likely to happen.
Never shop at Walmart either K?
+Mayday Games I know all too well why companies choose to do this and I wish circumstances were different. I wish companies didn't have to do what you do. And I wish the ones who do didn't flaunt it with such pride as you do here. As I'm sure you already know based on your comments, it is extremely difficult to shop in this country and avoid buying products produced entirely in foreign countries, particularly games, which is why I have backed more than one of your products on Kickstarter and even ordered from your website (a mistake I won't make again after this). I shop at Wal-Mart sometimes, yes, but, I also shop at Union-based stores and support mom and pop stores and local merchants, as well.
Slave labor
take solace in the fact that because of capitalism -- the single economic mechanism that can dredge a third world country out of squalor -- these people now have a middle class.
@@specialkay7184 Fair enough. Our company employs 8 full time US employees and supports US graphic designers, board game inventors who we pay royalties to, and a bunch of other people like our payroll company, lawyer and others. We are building a warehouse in Utah that is being designed and constructed by a US company.
Our US-based company has its goods produced in China, but if we are a US company employing US workers and contributing in a real way to the US economy.