@@matthewbibby8921 He's a d&d devil. But I think you're implying he's literally the Christian devil, which he isn't. Two things using the same word doesn't a comparison make.
@@TuberTugger I think the 'a' in front would disqualify that since there is one devil like there is one god in Christian mythology. Also, @williamfalls GOD YES! I don't think any other battle gave me as much satisfaction as getting one over on Raphael, especially if you free Hope.
The funny loophole that Raphael condemns, the whole "subcontracting" thing, to Yurgir, is invalid on his part. Considering that because Yurgir no longer hears the song, the deal Raphael himself created has been fulfilled. He only argues that point to keep his grip on Yurgir. In hindsight, that's probably the reason why he wanted us to kill him in the first place. He knew we would probably explore and eventually kill the last Justiciar,, and in doing so free Yurgir. So he wants us to kill him to cover up the loophole he accidentally left in his and Yurgir's contract.
Oh yeah Raphael knew it was only a matter of time. He basically plays it perfectly though. There isn't really a way for Yurgir to win once he sends you in. Well assuming he doesn't kill you which I doubt Raphael considers possible
Well, Raphael does plays it as best as could be expected for a devil of his caliber, however, I'm sad there's no dialog option to try to thwart him and argue in favour of Yurgir.
Love the irony of Astarion, right here. Astarion: "You had one chance to do the right thing" Meanwhile Astarion is approving of literally all bad actions in the entire game.
His whole thing is manipulation. Of course he doesn't believe in "doing the right thing" or any greater morality at all, but he expects that you do, and even though such an appeal would never work on him he thinks it would work on you.
I don’t know what path u have in game but astarion approves good choices too. Real good choices, not when u r just pragmatic, such as saving girl from fairy grandma, volo and etc. He even get inspiration points for some of them. I was purily good guy during all game and get only for about 2 disapprovals and all of them were connected with saving gnomes in act 2. But, well, it was quite suicidal decision to say smth against Nere, even Karlah disapproved my decision to unenslave them. So…
@@MaLeFeu I believe Karlach is more disapproving that you betrayed the Duergar, who you promised to help, rather than that you freed the Gnomes. Also, there's a Duergar you can talk to who will help you to fight Nere and he brings in some of the other Duergar to assist.
I killed the justiciar in my first playthrough without even knowing about Yurgir.. I always used speak to animals so I talked to the rat. It threatened me so I killed it. Then I killed the other rats. ... And then Astarian got furious at me as if I had any choice in the matter when I actually met Yurgir. I don't think I'd say that's "well played" tbf.
It seems like the developers, while having enough time to account for killing the Justiciar before talking to Yurgir , they didn't have the time to provide a different reaction for Asterion, given how he still acts like we had cut a deal with Yurgir to free him from his contract, rather than it being purely by accident.
You could still kill him though couldn't you? That was the agreement with Raphael. Actually I think I did it in this order but I didn't speak to Yurgir I just attacked him because Raphael warned you not to listen to him and just kill him and I didn't want to mess up his deal with Astarion so I snuck around the back way instead of trying to sneak past the displacer beast and killed him using Balthazaar's zombie as a tank.
@@adamgerald849only if you did it before triggering the dialogue with Yurgir. Once it starts, there is no going back. Yurgir will always go with Raphael and your deal with Astarion will be off
This: I had to save scum meeting yugir because he happened to be the LAST encounter before Shadowfell coz I OVER explored. That and the rats mocked me: it was well within my PC to electrocute every one of them for thinking they could snivel in my direction. I wanted Yugirs story but that's gunna be another playthrough 😂😂😂 also further proof Raphael has been playing you, the entire time. I mean that part of Raphie's story is why I'm diving into playthroughs cuz I'm CONVINCED he Def had his hands on Karsus/other long winded diatribe you only piece together from having multiple playthroughs. 😂 guess you could say I'm a fan. Sadly no one character will every know the whole story of Raphael.
Not only did i not kill the last justiciar, i didnt know there was one. I just thought they had been turned into rats somehow, and went on with the story. Killed this yugir guy in the meantime by luring him to the stairs from the main area, and blocking the places to jump to for permanent high ground and minimal weakness to melee attacks
I left the rats alone entirely. Yeah they were kinda rude to me, but I always seemed to find them mid-worship. I couldn't think of a good reason for my character to waste time killing them for something that minor
That's one way to handle Yurgir and his horde of Merrigons. Another way is to come at the battle from the side of the room with the viscera, skeletons and enchanted spider corpse, lob/shoot something aoe up at the Merrigons and run back out of range to activate stealth, rinse and repeat to kill his friends, then go up and take him down 4v1. That was how I approached this fight the first time I did it.
@@whiteraven562 I killed them in one run (after I talked Yurgir into killing himself) because there were some in doorways in a few areas and they kept BITING ME just for standing near them.
@@Bazil496Gortash's parents sold him to Raphael and he grew up in the House of Hope where he was tortured and beaten, so you could say Raphael raised him in a veeeery twisted way.
God I loved how I did this. I talked to the demon, let him think I was on his side, told astarion, 'chill dude, it's all part of the plan' then got my party in an advantagous position and just let loose with arrows and bombs. so much fun!
If the Contract didn’t stipulate you couldn’t get outside help, then you can’t be in breach for doing so You can’t be in violation of what wasn’t said or written in a deal, print can’t be so fine that it isn’t there Raphael played him like a fiddle, he had nothing on the Orthorn anymore, just made them think he did
The contract seemed to stipulate that Yurgir had to kill the Dark Justiciar, which, another guy getting the kill means Yurgir did NOT kill the Dark Justiciar.
@@grondhero Yurgir stopped hearing the song and did not immediately turn into a lemure, that means the contract was completed successfully. Raphael just manipulated him into thinking he had the bad hand. In reality he ate the bluff and agreed to a new contract when he had no need to do so. For comparison in breaches of contract, the very MOMENT you disintegrate Mizora, Wyll immediately goes poof. If Yurgir breached his own contract, the same would've happened.
FYI, everyone that wants to kill the Justicar for his scimitar but also help Astarion. Just walk into to room and jump him. Don't talk to Yungir. Just blast him. Preferably as a Gloomstalker. Pretty much killed him on one turn. Even though hes free from the contract if you kill him before Raphael shows up you're good on Astarion's contract.
There is another way to figure out what the scars, and the contract, mean without killing Yungir, and it has to do with the Necromancy Of Thay, concluding in act 3.
@@uraverageperson9585 It does, and he approves after Yurgir offs himself. Tbh I thought he would have approved when he saw where I was going with it, seems to me like talking someone into killing all their friends and then themself would be right up his alley
I did this without even meaning to. Found the rats, put them in a magical blender, then shanked the grumpy justiciar in self defence. Found this guy like 5 minutes later and was surprised to find out I didn't need to fight him because i accidentally screwed him over.
Huh I had no idea this could happen. When I saw that displacer beast I just attacked it and got swarmed by Yurgir and his followers. We killed them with some effort and Astarion got his scar decoded.
Same, saw the beast drawing me to an ambush, so I ambushed them instead. Ended up with almost all my party wiped out, so I had to flee and somehow manage to ressurect all my party members, which I managed to do one by one, running away after each one lol. This fight is no joke
@@pyroblaster2476I kited them through both flights of those broken stairs. Chipped away at them as I went. One by one, they tried jumping the stairs to get me, one by one they perished. Yurgir was the last one standing. He almost Allah snackbarred my ass but I got him. I was pretty proud of myself. 😂
Same, except I didn't have Astarion out so there was no dialogue for this section at all. I didn't even know Yurgir could talk to you until Raphael summoned him in the House Of Hope.
i basically broke this quest and got this cutscene because i couldn’t resist throwing an alchemist’s fire at the rats around the shar altar before you even enter the temple… i spoke to the rat that comes up to you with my druid and promised to not kill any more of them to get their treasure but apparently my crimes against ratkind were too great and they attacked me anyway, and also this fabled last dark justiciar never showed up for me after the fight? so i didn’t think much of it right until this point where i felt so cheated i reloaded 2 hours of gameplay to kill this guy lmao but really astarion look it’s not my fault those rats were standing in a perfectly alchemist’s fire shaped circle
there are more rats below the shar's big statue, i'm not sure if you've seen it. I found it by following the rats after i noticed a ton of rats running to the same direction after i killed quite a few of them
@@MixedSnowFox oh yea i did, i followed them immediately without touching anything in the gauntlet to get the reward the rat promised, but when i got there they still said “we warned you” and aggroed… i think it’s because i took out 5 of them at once?? and maybe the game checks for total rats dead in the temple idk
Then there's me, who simply talked him into unaliving all his followers and then himself....only to have him help me dispose of Raphael in the House of Hope 😂😂😂😂 4:35
There's nothing like him turning invisible and then bonking Raphael over the head to disappear again. And he barely gets detected 😂. Then he agrees that he will fight for you during the last battle, never thought making an orthon unalive himself would be so fulfilling.
So what was the point of Raphael showing up stressed out of his mind about the prospect of Yurgir escaping the Gauntlet if he could easily talk Yurgir down?
he's def more stressed out here but covering it up given that he IMMEDIATELY poofs in when you make it clear you're not gonna kill Yurgir and that he's free to go. him and korilla don't really do that unless one of raphael's assets is about to die/be freed
I'd killed the rats before I even met Yurgir, so I had no idea about the deal. I got the same dialogue from Astarion, even though I definitely did not "choose" a devil over him
Man I attacked the displacer beast and stole the orb by turning invisible bc I didn't know you could speak to him, when I went back he was always aggressive and I never got to talk to him
There definitely needs to be a dialogue opportunity to kill Yurgir before Raphael shows up. I was so confused when this happened, it robs you of completing your own deal with Raphael.
this way the dialog makes no sence in my opinion... Astarion talking like we have been and talked to Yurgir before and made a free decision to delete his deal with Raphael... instead of just randomly killing things in our way and Raphael just taking the opportunity to kill Yurgir before we could try it... some of the moments where i felt short of dialog options... anotherone after Halsin got killed and returning to the grove and everyone telling me... if you find him, tell us... at the end telling people that someone is dead is really not often an option... also in the money-house - can't tell no one that there boss died down there in an ambush... and yeah, i am good in randomly getting people killed who shouldn't die if i was a decent gamer.. ;o9 or when not making a runthrough but playing more options... that you can tell no other healer that you already found out that your brain-insects are special before them letting do there thing and being surprised that they are special... in my first 55 hour story-run-through everything was perfect, but in the forth or fifth, when i pay more attention to such stuff and explore more than trying to just survive and speed run healer and source of magic and stuff, there are some little issues....
There are definitely some glitches in the dialogues - one I ran into 2 out of 3 times now was Gale berating me about a deal I had made with "a devil"... pretty sure he's talking about the whole Raph/Orphic Hammer/Crown of Karsus thing. Problem is: Gale started this conversation when I hadn't even entered Sharess' Caress yet, much less spoken to Raphael. I think what triggers this is the party discovering the South Span waypoint and/or getting *close* to the whorehouse. Another glitch I encountered for the first time this run was Shadowheart suddenly having a dialogue option lamenting the fact that she and my Tav never got together - when she had professed her love to Tav just a minute before that and had told him she wanted to be with him forever... lol. In fairness: There are so many conversations with your party members, so many ways conversations can unfold and lots of times it's the player (not the game) who decides what order he does what quests in. "De-bugging" all that stuff and making sure conversations don't trigger at the wrong time must be a bit of a nightmare for the devs.
Not gonna lie, this interaction kinda felt like the party getting in the way with the DMs plans for an NPC, then comming up with some BS on the fly to avoid too much inconsistencies with what the DM has planned for the future. I highly doubt any Orthon would just enter a second contract with someone who actively trapped them to not complete it (we don't even know what Yugir got out of the contract, and if it was annuled by the fake loophole) Another reason why I belive the loophole to be fake, Mizora vould downright quote the legal fineprint, while Raphael is just pulling an "um, actually"
@MrDustilicious idk man, this scene did not make much sense. Yugir was spitting nothing but vile acid about Raphael, but one measly half threat and he's like "ok". Not to mention the 0% of player agency in that scene, you just stand there and watch it unfold. No option to convince him to attack him now, no option to play this as your modus operandi of solving Raphaels quarrel. I mean, why even have the successful check earlier, showing how uncomfortable Raphael is with the idea of helping the Orthon vs just killing it, if going down that path just results in railroading? Sure, you get a little bit of drama with Astarion, but that's about it
I don't, do you see the mountains of bodies around him? Plus his stories of other horrible acts of cruelty? yeah, nope, no mercy. Also if you kill him you get his crossbows (one is really huge if you can disarm him), and also he revives in act 3, and he'll be willing to join you out of respect.
Good writing from Rafael have Yurgir acknowledge the party as subcontractors by offering them a reward now adding extra weight to the breach of contract.
My only peeve with this is that I was doing Astarions quest and unknowingly killed the rats before meeting Yurgir. I then talked to him and Raphael did his thing which made Astarion livid asking how I could do such a thing without giving an option of “how was I suppose to know killing the rats would do that” on top of the fact you don’t get any decision for combat. Only sorry’s and we’ll find another way. And before anyone says it. Yes Ik you can redo it with reloading a save to just attack him but I was on a no rerolls/take backs run first go like a real dnd session.
I don't think it's like a real D&D session. In a real D&D session a DM can make new story paths out of your failures or at least turn it into a laugh. In BG3 failure usually either locks you out of content or it kills you and you have to redo things you already did in a previous save. In a real D&D session if you die you just continue on with a new character. The DM doesn't say "your party has died so now we have to restart the campaign and do plotlines you already did before"
My favorite version of devil's contracts are the kind where there's nothing actually binding the devil to their word, and they're just playing with their food. I know that's not what's happening here, but I find the concept of bargaining with otherworldly entities fascinating.
It's not indeed, Raphael just manipulated Yurgir (he wouldn't have lost time negociation if there really was a breach, but nothing in the contract mentionned Yurgir have to personally kill all Dark Justiciars)
Didn't even know you could talk to this guy, he has always just aggroed and insta gibbed my whole party with a blast wave lol. For a big fellow he sure is fast.
I know gameplay wise why they had Yurgir sign a new contract with Raphael, that way he’d be at the House of Hope and help you fight Raphael (assuming you helped him break his contract or passed the persuasion check). However it would be nice if you could argue back at Raphael after he said “nowhere does it stipulate that you could subcontract the last kill….” by asking “ok, but is there anywhere in the contract specifically stipulating he can’t subcontract the last kill?” Or if in the instance of this video you kill the final justiciar before meeting Yurgir meaning he never subcontracted it out and it’s not his fault that you just happened to kill him then it shouldn’t be a breach of contract that someone else happened to fulfill the final part of the contract, you could argue that he never subcontracted it out and thus is not in breach of contract. Finally if could knock the justiciar out and pick him up (or control him via some spell), and then bring him to Yurgir and let him strike the final blow thus fulfilling the contract if you got unique dialogue for that
In my playthrough I convinced Yurgir to kill all his followers and then himself. I just wish I could have told him there was one Justiciar left right after he fell on his sword and died in breach of contract.
So funny enough, I actually did that while romancing Astarion and the thing that apparently I did not know is if you do this while romancing him, it will decrease your romance with him and put you back to being companions instead of lovers
I love helping Yurgir in the gauntlet of Shar. He shows up in your camp to tell you to break the contract with raphael (if you signed one) and helps you find out how to get in to the house of hope later in act 3. And when you fight Raphael he instantly joins you instead of needing to be conviced. Because he sees you as a worthy hunter. On top of that Orthon's, while evil, are still suffering because of devils above them. Their armor is usually bolted right in to their skin and this brings along maggots and other fine joy. Every movement is painful for them. Now, they are bloodhungry contract killers that are loyal to hell at first and the highest bidder at second. But I still cant help feeling a little bad for Yurgir.
I never had this dialogue, I saw him and his goons from afar and thought it was an ambush just like happened 10 other times on act 2, so I killed them all from afar. :/
I remember the first time I faced Yurgir and he absolutely destroyed me. 3 of my party died and only Astarion remained, I had him use an invisibility potion to run away from the fight, went to talk to Withers to revive everyone and then counter-ambushed Yurgir when everyone was back. He was standing on low ground this time so I managed to cast a lot of CC spells on him and killed him easily
My Tav, a tiefling who has told Astarion what is written on his back: *helps Yurgir and doesn´t kill him* Astarion: You choose a devil over me? Me, in that moment: Yeah, sorry mate but Yurgir just kinda bbg you know
Well, i did this in my first run. I killed the Dark Justiciar before meeting Yurgir. When Astarion just goes mad for this i was asking "Bro you literally follow me and killed the guy BEFORE we even know who tf Yurgir is. HOW DID COULD I KNOW THIS BEFORE?" Sad that BG3 devs didn't think of this 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@jussmaster you don't have to complete the trials to fight the dark justiciar, just go all the way to the bottom to a certain location and interact with some items, fight a bunch of rats then the dark justiciar will pop out
Yeah, the game's full of stuff like this, it's a shame really. If you don't get Shadowheart to open up to you then do this area without her, on the way out she'll confront you acting like you betrayed her because she was meant to complete the trial etc. Like my character had no idea she even worshipped Shar or wanted to become a dark justiciar (because she specifically rebukes every attempt to get to know her!), but she takes it as a personal affront and leaves the party for good. My character also had no option to ask 'wtf are you talking about?' the same way you can't say to Astarion here something like 'how was I meant to know killing all those rats would void the deal we made??' so it doesn't come across as the characters themselves being unreasonable, but the game just not acknowledging events properly, so it's super jarring and just makes everything feel weightless. Like I get that accounting for every possibility takes a lot of resources, but it's really important! And besides, there are so many instances where companions just not saying anything makes a lot more sense, so the best thing would be to just not have these dialogues trigger. It's the game's biggest flaw imo.
@@richardhandcockthis game already super spoils us with the amount of things that larian planned for and made to be reactive to the players actions. Some small details here and there are really nothing fret over. Especially when 99% of games dont even give you multiple options for completing a quest to begin with. Let alone dynamic responses to how you do it. So at this point i dont think the complaint is valid for something like this
On the bright side, you can convince Yurgir in the House of Hope to team up with you against Raphael. One less mob in that fight, and one more ally on your side.
I didn’t find out until the last justicar later, but I convinced Yurgir to kill everyone and then himself, because when I went in fighting I would die every time
I wonder... could you lure the justiciar to yugir? Like, maybe pick up rats as a weapon at throw them at yurgir? Or just lure him to the ambush in phase 2?
I did this on my first playthrough. The rats attacked me so I cleared them, killed the guy because he attacked me. and showed up to meet Yurgir and was very very very confused.
@@chrisb8918 Specifically, Raphael taught the last justicar the rat trick in order to prevent Yurgir completing his contract with Raphael, meaning Yurgir remained his slave.
I think my version of this must be bugged, because I definitely killed that guy before talking to him and he acted as though there were still guys inside of the Temple. 🤔
I’m curious if it’s possible to bring the last justiciar to Yurgir for him to kill himself 🤔🤔 Like turn it into a sheep or something and use dominate mind on it so you can carry it up to where Yurgir is, then throw it into battle and maybe Yurgir will off him?
The contract was to kill all Dark Justiciars he found in the halls? So he could just knock on the front door and when he doesn't get a reply say "guess I didn't FIND any..." and go home?
wow i so confused rn. I didnt have astarion in my party for basically at all from the start of act 2. He taljed about making a deal with raphael, but since he wasnt actually in my party at the times I bumped into him, I completely missed this quest. I left the rats alone, and just kinda wandered into yugir's boss arena, where he immediately attacked me with no chance for dialogue. Truth be told I was super confused and just figured Raphael's warning was about nightsong and that she was secretly evil or something lmao.
Ive always hated that this happens with astarion. Like as the player you didn’t know if you do it like this. Had this happen to me and had to reload a save and just attack him without speaking to him (the demon). Its kinda bs to get disapproval for something you didn’t know would happen especially since that guy attacks you first (that dark just)
Yeah i didn’t even know bro had something to say I just saw a lot of guys down there and decided it was now or never time on the iron flask so I threw my Pokémon out and made short work on the other side
Our odds are still better togheter ... Yes because if you go far away from me you will be subjected to the absolute ... Same with all the others ... The only 1 that leave for good cause is Gale and maybe he would ask to keep bonded to some place so he would be sure his trhall himself would not endager other people
I never found the judiciar, I killed yurgir (without ever talking to him). Of course, since he's a devil who died in the material plane, he just respawns in the hells. So later in the house of hope, I convinced him to help me kill raphael, and then yurgir agreed to help me in the end-game
I wish there was a version where you could knock out the Justiciar, then send Yurgir over to score the final blow. (I mean maybe there is, but I haven't actually tried but I'm pretty sure there isn't). Or just something to let Yurgir escape without being strongarmed into a new contract.
I legit did this because I was afraid of fighting him so I explored the the rest of the map first and killed the rat man. I was so confused once I got to the devil and accidentally pissed off Astarian
You don't, but when it comes time to kick Raphael to the curb you don't need to make a speech check to have Yurgir turn on him. And if Yurgir survives, he offers you aid during the final battle Oh, and Yurgir also tells you how to break into Raphael's house, even if someone else has already told you.
You do, I killed Yurgir, but I also didn't have Astarion in my party when Raphael shows up to make the deal so he never decoded anything. You'll figure it out in Cazzador's Palace regardless.
You find out when you go to take out Cazador. Astarion's siblings hint at it when you encounter them in the city (and when they show up at your camp). But when you're in Cazador's lair there are texts/books about the ritual, and then when you actually get to Cazador he flat out tells you Astarion is bound to the ritual by the scars on his back.
I did that on my first playthrough and I'm really surprised that this isn't the standard way. 1. You are told that the one in there are so dangerous even Rapahel "fears" him. Ok, so you are gonna naturally avoid him as long as possible. 2. When you sneak around at the start and kill some mice praying to an altar, they make a plea that if you stop killing them they lead you to a treasure. 3. You follow all the trail of mice because you think that they are leading you to that promised treasure. 4. When you arrive at their destination they get aggro and attack you. 5. After the easy battle, you have killed the Dark Justiciar before even knowing it's an alternative in a quest.
i noticed one of them swiped at my feet when i walked past for no reason. probably included by the devs to get the player to hit back to access this outcome. i almost did out of spite but i was like “nah my character wouldn’t gaf about that” and i missed all of this lol
I just thought you were supposed to kill Yurgir, it seems pretty important to Astarion's sidequest- plus it doesn't seem to change anything, he ends up back in avernus anyway
@michals2205 I had a reason, it was called being fking rude to me considering these rats are just a hundred pieces of one person and I'm ONE WHOLE PERSON. The dark justiciars rat sized ego thinking he can tell me what to do. He took the b**** way and turned himself into an animal no body respects and then disrespects anybody who walks into the temple. Death was well justified.
Yurgir: Fine, but no more songs!
Raphael: LIVES ALL MORTAL LIVES EXPIREEEEEE...
Would be funny if after Raphael's solo Yurgir would be like "THE AGREEMENT WAS NO SONGS! I AM JOINING THEIR SIDE!"
bro omfg lmao
SOULSS GO TO THERE DOOM IN FLAMES FOREVER MORE!!!!
Hahaha that's hilarious I didn't even realize
Or as an easter egg, have there be no music at all for the fight if you pick this option.
I love Raphael. Even with no leg to stand on he finds a way to twist words and lie. there is really no end to his cunning.
Except if you beat his 666 health down to 0. That ends all his cunning.
He's a little too "Cartooney devil", but its fine
@@DasKameI mean... He's LITERALLY a devil.
@@matthewbibby8921 He's a d&d devil. But I think you're implying he's literally the Christian devil, which he isn't. Two things using the same word doesn't a comparison make.
@@TuberTugger I think the 'a' in front would disqualify that since there is one devil like there is one god in Christian mythology.
Also, @williamfalls GOD YES! I don't think any other battle gave me as much satisfaction as getting one over on Raphael, especially if you free Hope.
The funny loophole that Raphael condemns, the whole "subcontracting" thing, to Yurgir, is invalid on his part. Considering that because Yurgir no longer hears the song, the deal Raphael himself created has been fulfilled. He only argues that point to keep his grip on Yurgir.
In hindsight, that's probably the reason why he wanted us to kill him in the first place. He knew we would probably explore and eventually kill the last Justiciar,, and in doing so free Yurgir. So he wants us to kill him to cover up the loophole he accidentally left in his and Yurgir's contract.
Oh yeah Raphael knew it was only a matter of time. He basically plays it perfectly though. There isn't really a way for Yurgir to win once he sends you in. Well assuming he doesn't kill you which I doubt Raphael considers possible
@@derekskelton4187 Well if Yurgir kills us, then he's still trapped.
Wait, where is the last Justicier?
Well, Raphael does plays it as best as could be expected for a devil of his caliber, however, I'm sad there's no dialog option to try to thwart him and argue in favour of Yurgir.
@@IanSenkel kill a rat and if you have animal speak youll find him
Love the irony of Astarion, right here.
Astarion:
"You had one chance to do the right thing"
Meanwhile Astarion is approving of literally all bad actions in the entire game.
Yep, why I don’t like taking him along. He disapprove almost everything I do.
His whole thing is manipulation. Of course he doesn't believe in "doing the right thing" or any greater morality at all, but he expects that you do, and even though such an appeal would never work on him he thinks it would work on you.
I don’t know what path u have in game but astarion approves good choices too. Real good choices, not when u r just pragmatic, such as saving girl from fairy grandma, volo and etc. He even get inspiration points for some of them.
I was purily good guy during all game and get only for about 2 disapprovals and all of them were connected with saving gnomes in act 2. But, well, it was quite suicidal decision to say smth against Nere, even Karlah disapproved my decision to unenslave them. So…
Not really lol... he approves of a shitton of good actions too.
@@MaLeFeu I believe Karlach is more disapproving that you betrayed the Duergar, who you promised to help, rather than that you freed the Gnomes. Also, there's a Duergar you can talk to who will help you to fight Nere and he brings in some of the other Duergar to assist.
The clever outcome here is that, if you skip ahead in the quest, it fails when you complete it. Well played Larian.
I killed the justiciar in my first playthrough without even knowing about Yurgir..
I always used speak to animals so I talked to the rat. It threatened me so I killed it. Then I killed the other rats.
... And then Astarian got furious at me as if I had any choice in the matter when I actually met Yurgir. I don't think I'd say that's "well played" tbf.
If he said "no more songs" wouldn't Raphael mess up his own contract when he starts singing in the Hope battle?
He meant no more songs as part of his contract, because the song was forced to be stuck in his head. Not that Rapheal can never sing again lol
It seems like the developers, while having enough time to account for killing the Justiciar before talking to Yurgir , they didn't have the time to provide a different reaction for Asterion, given how he still acts like we had cut a deal with Yurgir to free him from his contract, rather than it being purely by accident.
You could still kill him though couldn't you? That was the agreement with Raphael. Actually I think I did it in this order but I didn't speak to Yurgir I just attacked him because Raphael warned you not to listen to him and just kill him and I didn't want to mess up his deal with Astarion so I snuck around the back way instead of trying to sneak past the displacer beast and killed him using Balthazaar's zombie as a tank.
@@adamgerald849only if you did it before triggering the dialogue with Yurgir. Once it starts, there is no going back. Yurgir will always go with Raphael and your deal with Astarion will be off
@jussmaster in every conversation, in the bottom left corner, you have a button to start a fight.
@@DragonLordG huh, I didn't know that. Thank you
This: I had to save scum meeting yugir because he happened to be the LAST encounter before Shadowfell coz I OVER explored. That and the rats mocked me: it was well within my PC to electrocute every one of them for thinking they could snivel in my direction. I wanted Yugirs story but that's gunna be another playthrough 😂😂😂 also further proof Raphael has been playing you, the entire time. I mean that part of Raphie's story is why I'm diving into playthroughs cuz I'm CONVINCED he Def had his hands on Karsus/other long winded diatribe you only piece together from having multiple playthroughs. 😂 guess you could say I'm a fan. Sadly no one character will every know the whole story of Raphael.
Not only did i not kill the last justiciar, i didnt know there was one. I just thought they had been turned into rats somehow, and went on with the story. Killed this yugir guy in the meantime by luring him to the stairs from the main area, and blocking the places to jump to for permanent high ground and minimal weakness to melee attacks
I left the rats alone entirely. Yeah they were kinda rude to me, but I always seemed to find them mid-worship. I couldn't think of a good reason for my character to waste time killing them for something that minor
That's one way to handle Yurgir and his horde of Merrigons. Another way is to come at the battle from the side of the room with the viscera, skeletons and enchanted spider corpse, lob/shoot something aoe up at the Merrigons and run back out of range to activate stealth, rinse and repeat to kill his friends, then go up and take him down 4v1. That was how I approached this fight the first time I did it.
Wait the rats were justiciars???
@@alexfeder9328 technically the rats were all one singular justiciar who split their consciousness into all their bodies as a hive mind
@@whiteraven562 I killed them in one run (after I talked Yurgir into killing himself) because there were some in doorways in a few areas and they kept BITING ME just for standing near them.
Rafael is the coolest villain ever! Gortash and co are kindergarteners compared to him.
Rafael was a loser. Was not nearly as slick as he thought he was
Gortash is closer to a teenager in my opinion. He thinks he knows everything but gets killed by his own traps.
Well, Raphael is kind of a Gortash's stepdad, so...
@@jkOk-v1pUhh what?
@@Bazil496Gortash's parents sold him to Raphael and he grew up in the House of Hope where he was tortured and beaten, so you could say Raphael raised him in a veeeery twisted way.
God I loved how I did this. I talked to the demon, let him think I was on his side, told astarion, 'chill dude, it's all part of the plan' then got my party in an advantagous position and just let loose with arrows and bombs. so much fun!
I'm planning to throw a beholder on his head
@@NeoConker626 HOW!?
@@DBfan106 the uh... What's it called, trespasser? There's a bottle or pouch with one in the zhentarim chest (from the gnoll encounter).
@@NeoConker626 I WAS going to be honorable about that chest but now...
I convinced him to kill his pet and all his minions and then commit suicide
If the Contract didn’t stipulate you couldn’t get outside help, then you can’t be in breach for doing so
You can’t be in violation of what wasn’t said or written in a deal, print can’t be so fine that it isn’t there
Raphael played him like a fiddle, he had nothing on the Orthorn anymore, just made them think he did
Should have invested more points into int
The contract seemed to stipulate that Yurgir had to kill the Dark Justiciar, which, another guy getting the kill means Yurgir did NOT kill the Dark Justiciar.
@@dawn4383 mmmmm that would make sense, but I think the alternative is funnier
exactly why he was willing to make a deal
would the contract fail if it died of age?@@dawn4383
Wait, you're telling me it was the damn rats the whole time....
Hey, Raphael, the contact didn't state that I could get help, but it also didn't state that I COULDN'T get help. Devil's in the details, you see
considering how down to detail mizora's contract was, I'm sure raphael would've accounted for that
Raphael states that _Yurgir_ had to kill them, not simply that they had to be killed.
@@grondhero Yurgir also had henchmen and that tentacle cat thing. It's hard to believe that THEY didn't kill and Justiciars and "breach the contract".
@@thesovereign8625 Possibly. But Raphael is also a devil and probably had no desire to "interrupt" Yurgir's contract while he was suffering.
@@grondhero Yurgir stopped hearing the song and did not immediately turn into a lemure, that means the contract was completed successfully. Raphael just manipulated him into thinking he had the bad hand. In reality he ate the bluff and agreed to a new contract when he had no need to do so.
For comparison in breaches of contract, the very MOMENT you disintegrate Mizora, Wyll immediately goes poof. If Yurgir breached his own contract, the same would've happened.
FYI, everyone that wants to kill the Justicar for his scimitar but also help Astarion. Just walk into to room and jump him. Don't talk to Yungir. Just blast him. Preferably as a Gloomstalker. Pretty much killed him on one turn. Even though hes free from the contract if you kill him before Raphael shows up you're good on Astarion's contract.
I got Yurgir to stab himself, since he heard the song, as a gloomstalker.
There is another way to figure out what the scars, and the contract, mean without killing Yungir, and it has to do with the Necromancy Of Thay, concluding in act 3.
lol i end up fighting the shadowbeast and yurgir jump and in fight me so i end up fighting him it was an annoy fighting.
you can talk to Yurgir? basically on my two playthroughs he always just attacked me unless i killed last justiciar prior to meeting Yurgir
@@KaspYARhuh how? Do you read it yourself or you have to give it to astarion?
You can legit convince Yurgir to kill everyone, his pet and himself. That was fun.
You can get the Pet to attack Yurgir also.
And then you can convince him later on to fight with you against Raphael.
Does that still fufill the contract for Astarion. I did that and I dont want Astarion to go all mad on me.
@@uraverageperson9585 It does, and he approves after Yurgir offs himself. Tbh I thought he would have approved when he saw where I was going with it, seems to me like talking someone into killing all their friends and then themself would be right up his alley
It's amazing that you can do that with most of the really substantial enemeis in Act 2
I did this without even meaning to. Found the rats, put them in a magical blender, then shanked the grumpy justiciar in self defence. Found this guy like 5 minutes later and was surprised to find out I didn't need to fight him because i accidentally screwed him over.
Huh I had no idea this could happen. When I saw that displacer beast I just attacked it and got swarmed by Yurgir and his followers. We killed them with some effort and Astarion got his scar decoded.
Same, saw the beast drawing me to an ambush, so I ambushed them instead. Ended up with almost all my party wiped out, so I had to flee and somehow manage to ressurect all my party members, which I managed to do one by one, running away after each one lol. This fight is no joke
@@pyroblaster2476I kited them through both flights of those broken stairs. Chipped away at them as I went. One by one, they tried jumping the stairs to get me, one by one they perished. Yurgir was the last one standing. He almost Allah snackbarred my ass but I got him. I was pretty proud of myself. 😂
Same, except I didn't have Astarion out so there was no dialogue for this section at all. I didn't even know Yurgir could talk to you until Raphael summoned him in the House Of Hope.
@@Nexus42 He's a pretty cool dude tho.
@@pyroblaster2476 I didn't even realize the displacer beast was drawing me to an ambush, I just saw cute cat and followed.
And once that Friends spell expires: Astarion disapproves -10 (At least that was the result I got when putting Charm on him at one point.)
Yeah I was wondering if the guy making the video would notice that. Messing with your companions' minds is a big approval penalty.
@@iiiiiifggffggffgfgfg easier difficulties don't get that penalty iirc
@@rythinpain They still give the penalty, just less harshly
i basically broke this quest and got this cutscene because i couldn’t resist throwing an alchemist’s fire at the rats around the shar altar before you even enter the temple… i spoke to the rat that comes up to you with my druid and promised to not kill any more of them to get their treasure but apparently my crimes against ratkind were too great and they attacked me anyway, and also this fabled last dark justiciar never showed up for me after the fight? so i didn’t think much of it right until this point where i felt so cheated i reloaded 2 hours of gameplay to kill this guy lmao
but really astarion look it’s not my fault those rats were standing in a perfectly alchemist’s fire shaped circle
there are more rats below the shar's big statue, i'm not sure if you've seen it. I found it by following the rats after i noticed a ton of rats running to the same direction after i killed quite a few of them
@@MixedSnowFox oh yea i did, i followed them immediately without touching anything in the gauntlet to get the reward the rat promised, but when i got there they still said “we warned you” and aggroed… i think it’s because i took out 5 of them at once?? and maybe the game checks for total rats dead in the temple idk
0:44 look at him very SUBTLY bob his head in disbelief after he says "the contract is fulfilled". great animations
I love how even if you kill Yugir, he will still side with you in Hell
IF you pass the persuasion check which is to get a 30.
@@ravencarino6115 just save scum
Honestly easier to just kill them all.@@toastedtoastontoast
@ravencarino6115 it wasnt 30 for me, i had a 20 check 🥴
@@PeteTheShmeat on tactician it is 30. It was for me at least..
Then there's me, who simply talked him into unaliving all his followers and then himself....only to have him help me dispose of Raphael in the House of Hope 😂😂😂😂 4:35
There's nothing like him turning invisible and then bonking Raphael over the head to disappear again. And he barely gets detected 😂. Then he agrees that he will fight for you during the last battle, never thought making an orthon unalive himself would be so fulfilling.
astarion: how dare you talk to me after what youve done?
... bro what the fuck did you do to him???
The problem with not killing Yurgir is you miss out on the best hand crossbow in the game.
Ne'er misser is better, but Yurgir's is a close second.
Is it really that good?
Dual wield Hand Crossbows, as intended
Get the best (Ne'er misser) and the second best. Use them both.
There are only like three decent hand crossbows in the entire game so don't miss out!
@@Ilost11 true but Hellfire Hand Crossbow synergizes with the other hand crossbow you get in the grymforge
So what was the point of Raphael showing up stressed out of his mind about the prospect of Yurgir escaping the Gauntlet if he could easily talk Yurgir down?
Raphael's probably even more stressed the entire time here(look at his scowl), he's just good at hiding it while bullshitting Yurgir
he's def more stressed out here but covering it up given that he IMMEDIATELY poofs in when you make it clear you're not gonna kill Yurgir and that he's free to go. him and korilla don't really do that unless one of raphael's assets is about to die/be freed
"Devil's in the details", or in other words "Shit, didn't think you'd actually manage to get out... Now, how to bullshit my way through this..."
I'd killed the rats before I even met Yurgir, so I had no idea about the deal. I got the same dialogue from Astarion, even though I definitely did not "choose" a devil over him
Man I attacked the displacer beast and stole the orb by turning invisible bc I didn't know you could speak to him, when I went back he was always aggressive and I never got to talk to him
Same. Spent two hours trying to find a way to dialogue
Thank you! I've been waiting for this and I didn't feel like doing it myself lol
1:32 “does it say he expressly can’t subcontract it either?”
It says he has to kill the justiciar
There definitely needs to be a dialogue opportunity to kill Yurgir before Raphael shows up. I was so confused when this happened, it robs you of completing your own deal with Raphael.
this way the dialog makes no sence in my opinion... Astarion talking like we have been and talked to Yurgir before and made a free decision to delete his deal with Raphael... instead of just randomly killing things in our way and Raphael just taking the opportunity to kill Yurgir before we could try it... some of the moments where i felt short of dialog options...
anotherone after Halsin got killed and returning to the grove and everyone telling me... if you find him, tell us... at the end telling people that someone is dead is really not often an option...
also in the money-house - can't tell no one that there boss died down there in an ambush...
and yeah, i am good in randomly getting people killed who shouldn't die if i was a decent gamer.. ;o9
or when not making a runthrough but playing more options... that you can tell no other healer that you already found out that your brain-insects are special before them letting do there thing and being surprised that they are special...
in my first 55 hour story-run-through everything was perfect, but in the forth or fifth, when i pay more attention to such stuff and explore more than trying to just survive and speed run healer and source of magic and stuff, there are some little issues....
There are definitely some glitches in the dialogues - one I ran into 2 out of 3 times now was Gale berating me about a deal I had made with "a devil"... pretty sure he's talking about the whole Raph/Orphic Hammer/Crown of Karsus thing. Problem is: Gale started this conversation when I hadn't even entered Sharess' Caress yet, much less spoken to Raphael. I think what triggers this is the party discovering the South Span waypoint and/or getting *close* to the whorehouse. Another glitch I encountered for the first time this run was Shadowheart suddenly having a dialogue option lamenting the fact that she and my Tav never got together - when she had professed her love to Tav just a minute before that and had told him she wanted to be with him forever... lol.
In fairness: There are so many conversations with your party members, so many ways conversations can unfold and lots of times it's the player (not the game) who decides what order he does what quests in. "De-bugging" all that stuff and making sure conversations don't trigger at the wrong time must be a bit of a nightmare for the devs.
Not gonna lie, this interaction kinda felt like the party getting in the way with the DMs plans for an NPC, then comming up with some BS on the fly to avoid too much inconsistencies with what the DM has planned for the future. I highly doubt any Orthon would just enter a second contract with someone who actively trapped them to not complete it (we don't even know what Yugir got out of the contract, and if it was annuled by the fake loophole)
Another reason why I belive the loophole to be fake, Mizora vould downright quote the legal fineprint, while Raphael is just pulling an "um, actually"
Mizora's contract is also a mile long, Raphael's is like...three stanzas. Because there's nothing whimsical about proper legal theory.
@MrDustilicious idk man, this scene did not make much sense. Yugir was spitting nothing but vile acid about Raphael, but one measly half threat and he's like "ok". Not to mention the 0% of player agency in that scene, you just stand there and watch it unfold. No option to convince him to attack him now, no option to play this as your modus operandi of solving Raphaels quarrel.
I mean, why even have the successful check earlier, showing how uncomfortable Raphael is with the idea of helping the Orthon vs just killing it, if going down that path just results in railroading? Sure, you get a little bit of drama with Astarion, but that's about it
@@gallaros9 I'm agreeing with you.
@@MrDustilicious oh, sorry. It came across as a justification. My b
@@gallaros9 All good, I can see how it'd be ambiguous.
i snuck up behind him and waylaid his troupe and had no idear there was more stuff going on. good grief there's so much to miss
i feel so bad for killing him now
same, I love him sm and would save him if I could but I don't wanna make my vampire wife angry 😭
There's a way to help him in Act 3 even if you kill him here though, don't worry
I don't, do you see the mountains of bodies around him? Plus his stories of other horrible acts of cruelty?
yeah, nope, no mercy.
Also if you kill him you get his crossbows (one is really huge if you can disarm him), and also he revives in act 3, and he'll be willing to join you out of respect.
I would kill him for Astarion either way.
The quest to help him is bugged so I blew him up
Good writing from Rafael have Yurgir acknowledge the party as subcontractors by offering them a reward now adding extra weight to the breach of contract.
My only peeve with this is that I was doing Astarions quest and unknowingly killed the rats before meeting Yurgir. I then talked to him and Raphael did his thing which made Astarion livid asking how I could do such a thing without giving an option of “how was I suppose to know killing the rats would do that” on top of the fact you don’t get any decision for combat. Only sorry’s and we’ll find another way.
And before anyone says it. Yes Ik you can redo it with reloading a save to just attack him but I was on a no rerolls/take backs run first go like a real dnd session.
I don't think it's like a real D&D session. In a real D&D session a DM can make new story paths out of your failures or at least turn it into a laugh. In BG3 failure usually either locks you out of content or it kills you and you have to redo things you already did in a previous save. In a real D&D session if you die you just continue on with a new character. The DM doesn't say "your party has died so now we have to restart the campaign and do plotlines you already did before"
My favorite version of devil's contracts are the kind where there's nothing actually binding the devil to their word, and they're just playing with their food.
I know that's not what's happening here, but I find the concept of bargaining with otherworldly entities fascinating.
Oh wow this is really cool! I just discovered you can kill the Justiciar in my 2nd playthrough but even then I killed him after Yurgir
I don't think it is a breach if he didn't tell you to help him.
It's not indeed, Raphael just manipulated Yurgir (he wouldn't have lost time negociation if there really was a breach, but nothing in the contract mentionned Yurgir have to personally kill all Dark Justiciars)
Didn't even know you could talk to this guy, he has always just aggroed and insta gibbed my whole party with a blast wave lol.
For a big fellow he sure is fast.
Wow, after I killed the last dark justiciar I had no idea this area or this dialogue existed... time to replay it :D
I dragged the last justiciar up to him and he didnt even acknowledge it.
I want to like astarion, but i just can't. I just accidently let him get blendered in cazadars ritual. Still won the fight, felt like a good ending.
I have killed that devil guy twice now. I never seen this bit of dialogue. I love this game how it's always different.
"A new signature on a *new deal*" duuuuuude, FDR would have been so proud of Raphael.
Huh….I detected his ambush and attacked…didn’t think you could talk to him
I’m surprised not many people mention Astarion in the final scene when talking about his cutscenes
I know gameplay wise why they had Yurgir sign a new contract with Raphael, that way he’d be at the House of Hope and help you fight Raphael (assuming you helped him break his contract or passed the persuasion check).
However it would be nice if you could argue back at Raphael after he said “nowhere does it stipulate that you could subcontract the last kill….” by asking “ok, but is there anywhere in the contract specifically stipulating he can’t subcontract the last kill?”
Or if in the instance of this video you kill the final justiciar before meeting Yurgir meaning he never subcontracted it out and it’s not his fault that you just happened to kill him then it shouldn’t be a breach of contract that someone else happened to fulfill the final part of the contract, you could argue that he never subcontracted it out and thus is not in breach of contract.
Finally if could knock the justiciar out and pick him up (or control him via some spell), and then bring him to Yurgir and let him strike the final blow thus fulfilling the contract if you got unique dialogue for that
Funny this is how I always managed to do it without realising because I always get distracted by the rats when I enter the temple
In my playthrough I convinced Yurgir to kill all his followers and then himself. I just wish I could have told him there was one Justiciar left right after he fell on his sword and died in breach of contract.
So funny enough, I actually did that while romancing Astarion and the thing that apparently I did not know is if you do this while romancing him, it will decrease your romance with him and put you back to being companions instead of lovers
Well I was thinking to do that, I mean save the beastie while romanticizing Astarion, good to know not to do it ever
Dang, I really missed out when I hastened my team and murderized him without a second thought
Shovel is boooooored shovel wants to murderize
I love helping Yurgir in the gauntlet of Shar. He shows up in your camp to tell you to break the contract with raphael (if you signed one) and helps you find out how to get in to the house of hope later in act 3. And when you fight Raphael he instantly joins you instead of needing to be conviced. Because he sees you as a worthy hunter. On top of that Orthon's, while evil, are still suffering because of devils above them. Their armor is usually bolted right in to their skin and this brings along maggots and other fine joy. Every movement is painful for them. Now, they are bloodhungry contract killers that are loyal to hell at first and the highest bidder at second. But I still cant help feeling a little bad for Yurgir.
This was the exact ending I got to this quest on my first playthrough
I never had this dialogue, I saw him and his goons from afar and thought it was an ambush just like happened 10 other times on act 2, so I killed them all from afar. :/
there should be an option to make yurgir read teh stuff on astarions back.
You are missing out on the crossbow and risking astarion leaving as well.
Provided yurgir can read
I didn't even know you could talk to this guy, I just iced him with my Gloomstalker before any dialogue options.
Yurgir could've fought for that I reckon. Real grey area in the contract as far as I'm concerned.
I remember the first time I faced Yurgir and he absolutely destroyed me. 3 of my party died and only Astarion remained, I had him use an invisibility potion to run away from the fight, went to talk to Withers to revive everyone and then counter-ambushed Yurgir when everyone was back. He was standing on low ground this time so I managed to cast a lot of CC spells on him and killed him easily
My Tav, a tiefling who has told Astarion what is written on his back: *helps Yurgir and doesn´t kill him*
Astarion: You choose a devil over me?
Me, in that moment: Yeah, sorry mate but Yurgir just kinda bbg you know
Well, i did this in my first run. I killed the Dark Justiciar before meeting Yurgir. When Astarion just goes mad for this i was asking "Bro you literally follow me and killed the guy BEFORE we even know who tf Yurgir is. HOW DID COULD I KNOW THIS BEFORE?"
Sad that BG3 devs didn't think of this 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
who exactly was the Dark Jusiciar? i dont even remember killing one.
@@whytry4682you will meet him if you follow the rats. I think you have to go through the trials first
@@jussmaster you don't have to complete the trials to fight the dark justiciar, just go all the way to the bottom to a certain location and interact with some items, fight a bunch of rats then the dark justiciar will pop out
Yeah, the game's full of stuff like this, it's a shame really. If you don't get Shadowheart to open up to you then do this area without her, on the way out she'll confront you acting like you betrayed her because she was meant to complete the trial etc. Like my character had no idea she even worshipped Shar or wanted to become a dark justiciar (because she specifically rebukes every attempt to get to know her!), but she takes it as a personal affront and leaves the party for good. My character also had no option to ask 'wtf are you talking about?' the same way you can't say to Astarion here something like 'how was I meant to know killing all those rats would void the deal we made??' so it doesn't come across as the characters themselves being unreasonable, but the game just not acknowledging events properly, so it's super jarring and just makes everything feel weightless.
Like I get that accounting for every possibility takes a lot of resources, but it's really important! And besides, there are so many instances where companions just not saying anything makes a lot more sense, so the best thing would be to just not have these dialogues trigger. It's the game's biggest flaw imo.
@@richardhandcockthis game already super spoils us with the amount of things that larian planned for and made to be reactive to the players actions.
Some small details here and there are really nothing fret over. Especially when 99% of games dont even give you multiple options for completing a quest to begin with. Let alone dynamic responses to how you do it.
So at this point i dont think the complaint is valid for something like this
I did this on my first playthrough! I had no idea yurgir was even down there I was struggling so hard to find his gem 😂
On the bright side, you can convince Yurgir in the House of Hope to team up with you against Raphael. One less mob in that fight, and one more ally on your side.
I rarely had Astarion in my party so I totally forgot he had a thing with Raphael
I ran into this by accident before I could kill him with Astarion. He was NOT happy.
Now, the only thing left to do is figure out a way to get the dark justiciar alive to Yurgir, and let him just complete the job.
I didn’t find out until the last justicar later, but I convinced Yurgir to kill everyone and then himself, because when I went in fighting I would die every time
Stuff like this is why I just don't take Astarion anywhere.
I wonder if the contract is null and void since Raphael has his little Disney villain song?
They really did think of everything.
Kethric and Raphael were my favorite bad guys. And well I did get the Ortharon to fight beside me in the house of hope. Lol.
I wonder... could you lure the justiciar to yugir? Like, maybe pick up rats as a weapon at throw them at yurgir? Or just lure him to the ambush in phase 2?
i did this, Yurgir was oblivious to the dark justiciar
That’s exactly how my first play through went
I did this on my first playthrough. The rats attacked me so I cleared them, killed the guy because he attacked me.
and showed up to meet Yurgir and was very very very confused.
You can't get this part on ps5, the game glitches everytime before the dark justiciar fight & the rats never appear
so the final dark justiciars are the rats?
Yup
It's actual 1 split into hundreds of rats. Reading some of the information laid about shows he had a deal with Raphael as well.
Yeah, find that altar in that big Temple was kinda anoying
@@chrisb8918 Specifically, Raphael taught the last justicar the rat trick in order to prevent Yurgir completing his contract with Raphael, meaning Yurgir remained his slave.
Oh, thank the gods...I didn't kill the rats as I cast Speak with Animals first (I do this each time whenever I see an animal)
I think my version of this must be bugged, because I definitely killed that guy before talking to him and he acted as though there were still guys inside of the Temple. 🤔
I’m curious if it’s possible to bring the last justiciar to Yurgir for him to kill himself 🤔🤔
Like turn it into a sheep or something and use dominate mind on it so you can carry it up to where Yurgir is, then throw it into battle and maybe Yurgir will off him?
So basically, the best route is kill yurgir first, then kill that last justiciar? Get loot from both, and Asty gets what he wants?
The contract was to kill all Dark Justiciars he found in the halls? So he could just knock on the front door and when he doesn't get a reply say "guess I didn't FIND any..." and go home?
wow i so confused rn. I didnt have astarion in my party for basically at all from the start of act 2. He taljed about making a deal with raphael, but since he wasnt actually in my party at the times I bumped into him, I completely missed this quest. I left the rats alone, and just kinda wandered into yugir's boss arena, where he immediately attacked me with no chance for dialogue. Truth be told I was super confused and just figured Raphael's warning was about nightsong and that she was secretly evil or something lmao.
Ive always hated that this happens with astarion. Like as the player you didn’t know if you do it like this. Had this happen to me and had to reload a save and just attack him without speaking to him (the demon). Its kinda bs to get disapproval for something you didn’t know would happen especially since that guy attacks you first (that dark just)
Yeah i didn’t even know bro had something to say I just saw a lot of guys down there and decided it was now or never time on the iron flask so I threw my Pokémon out and made short work on the other side
So bassically Rafael Rickrolled him for years.. lol
now i want to drag the last one to him then let him finish them off and make the devs deal with that.
it would have been cool to have Yugir state that because he didn't actually hire you to do this work, he isn't in breach of contract.
Our odds are still better togheter ... Yes because if you go far away from me you will be subjected to the absolute ... Same with all the others ... The only 1 that leave for good cause is Gale and maybe he would ask to keep bonded to some place so he would be sure his trhall himself would not endager other people
I never found the judiciar, I killed yurgir (without ever talking to him). Of course, since he's a devil who died in the material plane, he just respawns in the hells. So later in the house of hope, I convinced him to help me kill raphael, and then yurgir agreed to help me in the end-game
ain't no way that ballista is a hand crossbow.
i wonder what Astarion would say if he didnt form a deal with raphael since thats also a possibility
Can you polymorph the last dark justiciar and bring him to Yugir? That way he can kill him without Raphael finding a loop hole?
Happened to me and wondered how this didn't count as fulfilling my deal with raphael
I wish there was a version where you could knock out the Justiciar, then send Yurgir over to score the final blow. (I mean maybe there is, but I haven't actually tried but I'm pretty sure there isn't). Or just something to let Yurgir escape without being strongarmed into a new contract.
Well, the contract didn't mention subcontracting, bit it didn't forbid it either, did it?
Its weird that astarion acts like you did this on purpose
I legit did this because I was afraid of fighting him so I explored the the rest of the map first and killed the rat man. I was so confused once I got to the devil and accidentally pissed off Astarian
So what happens if you take this path? Do you find out about Astarion's scars in another way?
You don't, but when it comes time to kick Raphael to the curb you don't need to make a speech check to have Yurgir turn on him.
And if Yurgir survives, he offers you aid during the final battle
Oh, and Yurgir also tells you how to break into Raphael's house, even if someone else has already told you.
You do, I killed Yurgir, but I also didn't have Astarion in my party when Raphael shows up to make the deal so he never decoded anything. You'll figure it out in Cazzador's Palace regardless.
You find out when you go to take out Cazador. Astarion's siblings hint at it when you encounter them in the city (and when they show up at your camp). But when you're in Cazador's lair there are texts/books about the ritual, and then when you actually get to Cazador he flat out tells you Astarion is bound to the ritual by the scars on his back.
I did that on my first playthrough and I'm really surprised that this isn't the standard way. 1. You are told that the one in there are so dangerous even Rapahel "fears" him. Ok, so you are gonna naturally avoid him as long as possible. 2. When you sneak around at the start and kill some mice praying to an altar, they make a plea that if you stop killing them they lead you to a treasure. 3. You follow all the trail of mice because you think that they are leading you to that promised treasure. 4. When you arrive at their destination they get aggro and attack you. 5. After the easy battle, you have killed the Dark Justiciar before even knowing it's an alternative in a quest.
You are assuming that literally everyone attacks the mice for no reason.
i noticed one of them swiped at my feet when i walked past for no reason. probably included by the devs to get the player to hit back to access this outcome. i almost did out of spite but i was like “nah my character wouldn’t gaf about that” and i missed all of this lol
I just thought you were supposed to kill Yurgir, it seems pretty important to Astarion's sidequest- plus it doesn't seem to change anything, he ends up back in avernus anyway
@michals2205 I had a reason, it was called being fking rude to me considering these rats are just a hundred pieces of one person and I'm ONE WHOLE PERSON. The dark justiciars rat sized ego thinking he can tell me what to do. He took the b**** way and turned himself into an animal no body respects and then disrespects anybody who walks into the temple. Death was well justified.
If you kill the dark justifer for him he will show up after you meet with Raphael and tell you were the hammer is and how to get into the place
I hope you were on a lower difficulty or when that friends cantrip ends you'll be back up shits creek!